Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 08, 2018

Les Déplorables Demand The Fall Of The Regime

Today we will again (read the comments) see large, and mostly peaceful gilets jaunes gatherings all over France to protest the neo-liberal policies of the Macron regime. The biggest ones will naturally occur in the capital Paris. They are likely to later develop into riots. The regime ordered 89,000 policemen onto the streets to counter any potential violence. 8,000 of them will be in Paris alone.

A problem is that police are often the cause of riots. Dressed like storm troopers and angry after way too many hours on the street they tend to attack with much brutality even when calm defense would be more appropriate.

After last week protest the Macron regime first delayed and then abolished the planned fuel tax hike that was the immediate cause of the yellow vest protests. That was too little too late and made his regime look weak. The people are now demanding more measures like a reintroduction of the wealth tax which Macron had abolished in one of his first acts in power.

Over the last week fireman, ambulance drivers, students and the administrative police union have joined the protests.

Luxury shops have been boarded up, museums and landmarks were closed. (An English language livestream can be watched here. Please point to others in the comments.) The police are an running early interdiction tactic, closing off roads and applying tear gas to kettle the people and to prevent larger gatherings at the Champs-Élysées. Hundreds have already been arrested. Meanwhile the protesters sing la Marseillaise. It is way too early for the police to use such force and it is not going to work. This only increases the anger of the protestors and will cause more conflagrations.


Les déplorables demand the fall of the regime.
bigger

In a France24 report from a small town in the country side shows extraordinary solidarity between the people. Police passing through an occupied toll road entry sign the protesters petition, other pass by and gift food to the middle-aged protestors.

One woman makes an good point. Yes, the violence as seen in Paris last weekend was not nice. But only after last weeks protest went violent were the yellow vests really noted by the media and by the otherwise tone deaf politicians.

If the protestors today try to storm the Bastille, the Elyssée palace or whatever, if there are more casualties, more people will join protests and strikes during the next week. Macron will come under even more pressure. He will have to dismiss his prime minister and government. More pressure and he will have to dissolve the parliament and call for new elections. That would likely mean the end of his policies of further enriching the very rich while impoverishing the lower middle class and the poor.

Posted by b on December 8, 2018 at 11:26 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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I am reading that Trump has tweeted that French protesters were chanting "We want Trump"

Please help me understand the delusion that led Trump to this tweet. I understand he exists in a bubble and is prone to a bit of projection but, but, but....this??????

The US is lead by an emperor that has no mental clothes and its bad enough to think of a nude Trump. One can despair or laugh......I will choose the latter.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2018 2:51 utc | 101

Well I spose no one can describe any trump tweet as truthful. I imagine this is just a play to the donnie dingbats who treat any tweet from agent orange as if it were gospel. Of course it will be picked up by the same ninnies who claim that yellow jackets are storm troopers for a rightist revolution.
What can you do? There hasn't been a popular movement ever which didn't cop this nonsense, all it really does is reinforce the strength of the people of France's disgust and dissent.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 9 2018 3:05 utc | 102

"... Emperor Trajan defeated the eastern Parthian Empire [in 115 - 116 CE] just like the US defeated the USSR [some people will dispute this - Jen] and brought the US at the height of its power. This is when both empires were at their height ..."

Posted by: Passer by | Dec 8, 2018 9:18:19 PM | 96

To complete the history lesson, the Sassanians - the successor empire to the Parthians, and regarded as the second Persian empire (after the Achaemenids, contemporaries of Classical Greece) - captured the Roman Emperor Valerian in 260 CE and held him hostage until his death a few years later. This caused a fair amount of shock to the Romans.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 9 2018 4:04 utc | 103

Passer by @ 96:

Erm, don't forget, some 145 years after Emperor Trajan defeated the Parthians, the successor empire to the Parthians, the Sassanians, captured the Roman emperor Valerian in 260 CE. He died some years later while still living in exile somewhere within Sassanian realms.

One can pick and choose at what level of Roman decline that current US decline corresponds to but the speed at which the US (and the West generally) is declining makes most comparisons moot.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 9 2018 4:23 utc | 104

Interesting year coming up in 2019...

Years in 9 of course are often interesting. Looking at the last Century.

1919 - Treaty of Versailles which many say created the conditions for WWII
1929 - Stock-market crash which led to the Great Depression and played into...
1939 - Start of World War II
1949 - Start of the Cold War - Establishment of NATO
1959 - ?
1969 - Moon Landings
1979 - The start of the Thatcher-Reagan era of Neo-Liberalism that continues to this day/
1989 - End of the Cold War fall of the Berlin Wall
1999 - Only happens once every 1,000 Years!
2009 - Depth of the Global Financial Crisis (March 6, 2009)
2019 - ?

Most assuredly Merkel & May will both be disposed of in 2019.

Brexit (March 29, 2019)
Byebye May soon after that - if not next week!

EU Elections (May 23-26, 2019)
Byebye Merkel soon after (maybe following 'Summit Season')

G20 Summit (June 28-29, 2019)
Much earlier in the year than normal - is that to shift the G20 away from the 2020 US Elections in Saudi Arabia in 2020. G20 2020. Could be embarassing.

G7 Summit (August 25-27, 2019)
In France. Will Macron still be around to preside?

December 2018 - August 2019
9 months of PAIN?

One can throw in a host of important countries having elections in the first half of 2019 as well. Indonesia, India, South Africa, Australia, Ukraine (Porky) and then Canada later on in 2019.... Could Justin be the last of his kind standing this time next year?

Et tu Macron?

Posted by: Julian | Dec 9 2018 4:40 utc | 105

...
One can pick and choose at what level of Roman decline that current US decline corresponds to but the speed at which the US (and the West generally) is declining makes most comparisons moot.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 8, 2018 11:23:24 PM | 100

Hey! Nice work, Jen!
A word-picture (1000 words sans dross).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 9 2018 4:45 utc | 106

oldhippie @54 thanks; stating the obvious, the US population has totally lost the thread of protest and solidarity. My French wife agrees, and has always wondered why there are no strikes here, lol. I agree that picking out Agents Provocateurs in the crowd at the moment is not difficult, but for me the crucial distinction would be to be able to capture and repost their misdeeds, in order to counter the establishment media outburst that comes afterwards. Very similar to how the White Helmets were called to account in Syria, which helped turn the tide against their bought and paid for propaganda.

Posted by: Roy G | Dec 9 2018 4:49 utc | 107

BHL also published article(s) claiming that Mèlenchon is fascist. He exists as a frontman for the corporate centre at every turn and has been deployed by the elites since the 1970s to attack the left as "totalitarian." Of course, criticising him is seen as "anti-Semitic" (yes, French discourse has fallen to those levels. It's clear since the video clips of students held by the CRS that Macron is a liberal-fascist of first order. Even Israel would not get away with videos showing Palestinian resistance fighters lined up like this, it would look too "totalitarian." The corporate Euro-Atlantic coup regime, embodied by the TTIP, Atlantic Council, BusinessEurope, Ukrainian Nazism, Fracking Oligarchy is embodied almost perfectly in Macrom and his actions and philosophically expressed in the BHL. The Yellow Vests movement is exposing them all. The entire left is on board, Invisible Committee, PCF, France Insoumise, Friends of the Earth France, and the Trotskyists, and 85% approve of the protests according to polls. Claims that this is a "Russian operation" fall down immediately and even the Guardian and NYTimes have held off this narrative leaving it to Rupert Murdoch and Michael Bloomberg. The movement against Macron will thus serve to discredit RussiaGate and corporate globalisation entirely if it succeeds- so it must!

Posted by: Blooming Barricade | Dec 9 2018 4:57 utc | 108

Few thoughts on French protests: Unknown Macron was elected via MSM scam, depicting him as an outsider, anti-establishment, but he was in fact an insider, the establishment. French have woken up to scam; ; also he's an arrogant twit, his popularity is very low; loathing, high. Avowed globalist; anti-nationalist

French middle class decline;

Open borders and migration madness/invasion, parts of Paris being turned into slum; loss of French national pride and identity; proliferation of mosques in France.

Yellow jackets are mandatory in vehicles in case of accident as I understand it, thus the uniform is at once a symbol of bureaucratic paternalism, and of 'something bad has happened'.

The 'we want Trump' chant is perhaps an endorsement of Trump's avowed nationalism and an indication of support for French nationalism.

In addition to the MSM scam, I have no idea to what extent this little noticed bit of info re French election fraud in support of Macron has been reported in France: "... Le Pen voters lost their ballots, their rights, by the millions on Sunday.

In France, if a ballot is damaged, it cannot be cast. So the political establishment, who are desperate to prevent Le Pen from taking office, arranged for the destruction of millions of Le Pen ballots.

Up to one third of all ballots sent out to voters, an estimated 60% of Le Pen ballots, were destroyed at the time of mailing.

Only Le Pen ballots arrived destroyed, there is not one report of a single ballot for Macron arriving destroyed." https://newspunch.com/marine-le-pen-election-rigged/

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Dec 9 2018 4:59 utc | 109

From France and from a yellow vest : the demonstrators has isssued a list of advocacy wich include mostly social measures (wage increases, less tax on poor and more tax on rich, pensions increases,..), protectionism, less immigration, and one political measure wich is seen as a mean to give the power to the people : the referendum on citizen initiative (In french referendum d'initiative citoyenne). Inspired by swiss democracy (wich already inspired the 1789's revolutionnaries) this means that a national referendum would be launched if a petition get a sufficient number of signatures.

This is seen as a good way to move towards an end of neo-liberalism economics, to control politicians and to give back the power to the ordinary people, to manage our own destiny and not let the politicians do that.


Now the yellow vests will fight until they get the referendum on citizen initiative wich is the principal demand. If they obtain that, I guess one of the first referendum launched would be about a frexit or a release from euro.

Excuse my english ;)

Posted by: Renard | Dec 9 2018 5:12 utc | 110

@71 nox... lol.. do you to drive by shootings regularly? this is the first one i have seen!

thanks for the various views on this BHL character.. fascinating.. my gut tells me @104 blooming barricade probably has it correct..

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2018 6:15 utc | 111

Blooming Barricade@104

Well said.

The global elite have even stooped to calling the protests a "Yellow Fever" out of fear
https://www.courrierinternational.com/une/vu-dallemagne-les-gilets-jaunes-un-desastre-pour-les-finances-de-leurope Publié le 07/12/2018 - 12:43

Here are two addition links that may be of some help in understanding the movement:
http://thesaker.is/frances-yellow-vests-its-just-1-protestwhich-has-lasted-8-years/

http://theduran.com/macron-heralds-the-end-of-the-union/
(reposted from The Automatic Earth)

I hope this may be of some assistance in these times...

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 9 2018 6:56 utc | 112

Not many noticed that Yellow Vests among many grievances demand not fall of the government which Macron or parliament can orchestrate within the law and constitution by dismissing government and calling for elections but demand that he resigns and for that there is no legal process but his own decision at his own sole discretion.

While there are provisions to render him unfit for presidency none of that applies as hence demands of Yellow Vests are extra constitutional demands and hence revolutionary demands and by that systemic demands what amount to dismissing entire political framework left or right treating this one single demand as act of people self governance asserting sovereign right to rule in revolutionary, extra constitutional exigent circumstances.

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 9 2018 8:29 utc | 113

This would be a good time for folks in greece to get out in the streets.

Posted by: paul | Dec 9 2018 10:00 utc | 114

Not anymore "déplorables" but "factieux and putchistes", as a Macron minister, M. Schiappa, asked a Yellow Jacket representative on a tv programme last sunday.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 9 2018 10:09 utc | 115

So that’s that then! What just happened? It depends on who you ask.
‘They’ would have us beleave, it,s all over and the police brought it under control ! Wishful thinking ?
Not a bit of it. Today’s battle is on the main stream media! He who controls the media controls the narrative. On a post regarding Imran Carn’s Election in Pakistan some wag here said ‘what ever the media say about it the exact opposite will be true.’ This applies here! The elite control the media and hence the public mind!
That is today’s battle front and the following days/weeks. The public need to retake the media(easyer said than done.)
Also I would love to hear private personal opinions from the police , your the public too. My advice to you would be remember who pays your wage ! And next time turn round and face the over direction !!! (Think about it)

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 9 2018 10:10 utc | 116

I hear that the cops are not using tear gas but PHOSGENE!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene

Posted by: William Bowles | Dec 9 2018 10:27 utc | 117

More on Phosgene

World War I Battlefield Gas Believed In Use Against Paris Protesters Today Nextrush Free ^ | 12/8/2018 | Nextrush/Self

Posted on 08/12/2018, 13:45:00 by Nextrush

"The gas is believed to be phosgene"

As published around 5am by BBC News online, removed from later versions

https://nextrushfree.blogspot.com/2018/12/breaking-news-world-war-i-battlefield.html

Posted by: William Bowles | Dec 9 2018 11:28 utc | 118

@110 Renard, thanks for the news. If indeed it is the case as you write that "the referendum on citizen initiative ... is the principal demand", that is big news, imo.

That the broad public interest is best protected and advanced by public sovereignty, not oligarchic or elite sovereignty, is perhaps *the* revolutionary principle. And the fact that Macron's background is directly that of banker, a certifiable creature of and agent of the pernicious private banking hegemon, gives the direct democracy component of the rebellion the status of fundamental, profound challenge to the establishment.

I then wonder if this "citizen initiative" basic component is also integral to the spreading movement in Europe.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Dec 9 2018 13:33 utc | 119

I thought about this before and estimated the current decline at the early 200s Roman Time. This is a bit later than when the Roman decline started (mid/late 100s). And a bit later than when the strong migration pressure against both the Romans or the West started.

The current clear US imperial decline started relatively recently, lets say in 2001. Same for migration pressure against the EU and somewhat (a bit later) same for migration pressure against the US. So it could take a bit longer for things to collapse, although things in recent times change rapidly.

Emperor Trajan defeated the eastern Parthian Empire just like the US defeated the USSR and brought the US at the height of its power. This is when both empires were at their height.

After that migration pressure increased and fiscal troubles started.

I saw the imperial wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as the long expensive wars against restive barbarians that Marcus Aurelius waged, that threatened to bankrupt the empire, just after the Roman decline was starting.

In the 300s the Empire was divided in two halves. A possible break between the EU and the US incoming? And what if part of the Empire survives, just as Bizantium survivied? Maybe some part of the current empire could survive too, but it will no longer be that powerful and will be one among many actors.

Posted by: Passer by | Dec 8, 2018 9:18:19 PM | 99

We must be very careful about tracing parallels between two different historical epochs, for, albeit it rhymes, History never repeats.

First and foremost: there are no economic data about any period of Ancient Rome. We don't know how much people lived there, we don't know the average height and weight of the Roman citizen, we don't have any macroeconomic data (inflation, "GDP", "per capita income" etc. etc.), we don't have any other demographic indicator. All we have is conjecture and very vague observation.

Now, some things we can conjecture over Ancient Rome from the evidence we have (both written and archeological):

1) if we are to divide Ancient Rome's society by the contemporary sociological categories (which we shouldn't), then we have that Rome never had a "pure" apex: it's cultural apex as in the new Republic era (Gaius Julius Caesar era); in literature, it was in Augustus era; in Law, it was in the late High Empire; economically, it was probably in the first half of the High Empire. Even when the Empire begun to decline during the Severan era, many cities still continued to prosper, and it wasn't until the Crisis of the Third Century was some decades old (the 250s) that the first written source that survived to our days realising the Empire had declined appears.

2) The Crisis of the Third Century was so brutal and was "solved" to slowly, and Diocletian's Reforms were so radical in the regressive sense that no historian doubts the Crisis was the definite time mark to the beginning of the end of the Roman Empire as a progressive force to the world. Diocletian's Reforms reformed Rome in a way that basically transformed the Empire into a proto-feudal State, and it explains smoothly the transition from Ancient Slavery to Manorialism. Yes, the people who lived during Diocletian didn't think that way -- they saw the Reforms as the "rebirth of the Empire" -- but they were not alive during the time of Antoninus Pius, and there wasn't internet back then to research for it.

3) Albeit historian uses the refusal of Odoacer/Odovacar in 475 as the time mark for the end of the Roman Empire in the West, many evidence indicates it was, for all practical purposes, already over some one and a half century before. What happened was that Rome had a depopulation, and not overpopulation, problem, and centuries of civil wars induced emperors and usurpers to coopt barbarian tribes to fight as mercenaries on their side against their political enemies in exchange of Roman land and, later on, political offices. It was reverse colonisation: from the late Old Republic (Marian Reforms) to the High Empire, the rule was to coopt soldiers to fight on foreign land in exchange of the loot on and a portion of this foreign land. It was an expansionist doctrine. When the office of the Emperor became unstable, the Roman enemy became for dangerous than the foreign (barbarian) enemy. Rome then begun to slowly collapse over its own weight.

So, with those points taken, let's debunk your analysis for the sake of thinking about the future:

a) the barbarians weren't a problem when they were invading, but when they were invited to settle on Roman land. And even this was not a cause, but a symptom of something much graver: declining population (which can be infered since Marcus Aurelius). Marcus Aurelius refusal to colonise Marcommanic land after his vitory represents us a clear image of the problem: for him (the Roman Empire), a depopulated land would be worth nothing, which means he didn't have enough Roman citizens to colonize Marcommanic land. Instead, he accepted the peace terms and allowed the Marcommanic to stay in their land, as subordinate allies. At the time, people may have thought this as a temporary setback because of the Antonine Plague -- but we all know it nowadays that wasn't the case.

b) as mentioned before, Roman had a depopulation problem, not an overpopulation one (as the USA has now).

c) Traianus won a victory against the Parthians and briefly occupied the Mesopotamian plains, but it wasn't a decisive victory and the Parthians were very far from collapsing because of that. The Mesopotamian plains were an extremely difficult position to defend at the time: it was, well, a very vast plain, with a range of mountaneous terrain in the East (and the North -- but Severus Alexander conquered the North and that didn't solved the Roman problem). Unless you could march on and conquer all the Middle East at once, it was a vulnerable position for an enemy attacking from the east. That's why, for much of the Ancient World, the region was hegemonized by the fortified cities. That's why Hadrianus quickly abandoned Traianus' conquests in Mesopotamia: either he had the usurmountable quantity of wealth to fortify the entire Mesopotamian plains, or would have to abandon it. Allegedly, he almost did the same with Dacia (which suffers from the same problem) -- but Dacia was smaller and was full of gold (the same gold mines which probably guaranteed the prosperity of the "Five Good Empererors" without the need of extreme territorial expansion). Instead, he just abandoned the northernmost part of the new province.

The USA didn't defeat the USSR in that way: it just waged a Fabian war and lasted more. The USSR peacefully dissolved because of its own internal contradiction. We can attest this by the fact that even the CIA was caught by surprise, as unclassified documents show.

d) The Persians changed names many times in their history, but that was only because they had the tradition to name themselves after a dinastic change. The Parthians were toppled by the Sassanid family, hence the name change. That didn't necessarily mean they collapsed. The Persians only collapsed during the Muslim Conquests of the 6th-7th Centuries. The Byzantines (which called themselves "Romans" or "Christians") survived the Muslim onslaught, but barely: they lost (forever) all their East provinces and was reduced to a Greek kingdom -- this was the de facto end of the Roman Empire in the East.

e) Marcus Aurelius didn't invade the Marcommanic and the Parthians. Instead, Rome was invaded. His war was defensive -- another glaring mark of Rome's decline. Granted, he still had the entire Roman territory and Thirty Legions at his disposal, plus a very good surplus of the aerarium left from his father, so he was capable of couterattacking. But that was not how the Roman system was supposed to work. At that point, the Dacian mines must've already dried up, so the Severans had to resort to coin devaluation (inflation) to pay the legions and the Praetorian Guard -- this possibly ignited a vicious cycle, where more soldiers were needed than ever to expand the empire and earn more wealth, but which cost even more wealth (which the Empire didn't have), which rose even more inflation, which diminished even more the capacity of the Empire to levy soldiers. A classic case of implosion.

f) When the Empire was first divided in two halves by Diocletian, the average Roman citizen didn't see it as very important, but just as a bureucratic policy to rise effiency of administration. This is so true that, when the Tetrarchy collapsed, Constantinus governed as sole Emperor again -- and even him was not the last Emperor to rule over the two halves.

Posted by: vk | Dec 9 2018 15:13 utc | 120

Posted by: Jen | Dec 8, 2018 11:04:24 PM | 103

One can pick and choose at what level of Roman decline that current US decline corresponds to but the speed at which the US (and the West generally) is declining makes most comparisons moot.

=============================================

Oh, i mentioned that the current change is more rapid, still one can attempt to convert roman years into current years, after accounting for faster current historical change. For example 50 roman years into 10 current years. Roughly.

Trajan 110 = 1990 (Soviet/Parthian defeat)
Marcus Aurelius 170 = 2004 Iraq and Afghan wars (Marcomannic Wars)
Marcus Aurelius 171 = 2008 US Financial Crisis (Aurelius forced to sell imperial jewels to find money)
Rome early 200s = Trump 2018
Rome mid 200s = US 2030 (dire times, poverty, chaos, significant foreign defeat)

Posted by: Passer by | Dec 9 2018 15:21 utc | 121

Posted by: vk | Dec 9, 2018 10:13:55 AM | 120

For the economy, we know that money were debased in the later periods and that there was inflation.

For depopulation, the times today are different, yet we do have a depopulation actually - the West has negative birth rate since the 60s, which leads to naturally declining population. The population is not declining only due to mass immigration. The problem of depopulation is now fixed by importing "barbarians". Barbarians were imported or moved by themselves in the Roman Empire too. Could this lead to minority areas (Foederati) that will be states within the state? For example muslim areas within Europe could become more like self-governing Foederati areas with time. Latino California becoming more independent over time?

As for the Parthians and the USSR, obviously in both cases this was a temporary defeat, these entities reconstituted themselves under various forms after that. I see 115 as peak Roman Empire and 1990 as peak US empire.


The Marcommanic wars were defensive, there were barbarian raids against the Roman Empire that triggered them, but one could also see 9/11 attack as a barbarian raid on the US Empire. So as a response to this raid foreign wars were started that seek to subdue muslims.

The Crisis of the Third Century i think is yet to come for the US, maybe in the 2030s. I see the current period (2018) more like the early 200s.

It is impossible for everything to be perfectly similar but one could look for broad trends.

Posted by: Passer by | Dec 9 2018 15:47 utc | 122

I think the analogy with Rome is best when considering the internal decay.

Is there any precedent for how the USA-led West won the Cold War against Russia and lost the peace? AFAICT, the capitalist "Shock Doctrine" was meant to force Russia's total capitulation.

But it backfired. And even after the "Shock Doctrine" had failed, the West treated Russia with contempt. Russia naturally turned to China as a partner.

The failure to bring Russia "on side" was a epic strategic failure because the West HAD TO ISOLATE CHINA or it would be impossible to contain China's "peaceful rise".

Plutocratic profiteering, and Zionist imperatives (a middle-east focus), plus an extra-helping of hubris overcame sound policy. Western elites FAILED in the most blatent and self-serving manner.

And now we all have to pay for this failure via a new Cold War - this time against Russia, China, Iran, and others - while, the establishment continues to prosper at our expense.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 9 2018 16:44 utc | 123

Interesting historical analogies made between Roman and current PTB empires. Regarding internal decay, Caligula & Nero's reigns remind of the decadent state of morality the West is in now;
Pornography, pedophilia, sodomy, etc..

Posted by: Lozion | Dec 9 2018 17:30 utc | 124

@5 > http://le.raid.free.fr/bac.htm <

Posted by: Red | Dec 9 2018 17:46 utc | 125

JR it's all true but, my only exception is limiting Zionist imperatives to the ME. Remember that Kissinger still has a big influence especially with Trump in steering Russia/China policy, failed policy, and Kissinger is Zionist, and the goal of Zionists is U.S. global military and geo-political domination that they piggyback on. My point is that they are involved in all aspects of the Empire's power, although, their influence is more visible and hands on with the ME through the ZLobby. With the rest of the world especially with big players like Russia/China, and even small but oil-rich Venezuela, and of course, the EU they exert influence through think tanks, and influential types like Kissinger who never stop scheming and are never retired. So my point is that in regards to the ME they're more visible and vocal. In regards to the rest of the world they operate more in the shadows but just as forcefully.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 9 2018 17:49 utc | 126

I should add that the only thing worse than the epic strategic failure would've been success. Because a uni-polar world means that that there is little to constrain harsh neo-feudal elites from crushing dissent and impoverishing the rest of us.

A multi-polar world provides at least some check on craven elites as competing social systems attempt to demonstrate that THEIR society treats people better then the others. Just like in the first Cold War.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 9 2018 18:15 utc | 127

The French have a long history of spontaneous co-operative action; from cooking to self-government, and taking the steps to maintain / recuperate their inherent rights.

Posted by: Red | Dec 9 2018 19:52 utc | 128

Come on Bernard, get with the street cred.

Les Deplorables -> US Trailer Trash and Hillbillies

Yellow Jackets -> les illiterées et les sans dents, dixit le Roi Soleil

Jeez. And I took you for bona fide Eurotrash!

Posted by: el sid | Dec 9 2018 20:12 utc | 129

And the hypocrite west leaders blame Mr Assad for his government reaction to the nasty radical Islamists rioting and shouting law obayiding citizens , cutting their heads off , while they do themselves much worse when the riots start .
Very much the powerful run the show and do what they desires to do . Nasty western civilized world ( not so civilized ) .

Posted by: Bobby | Dec 9 2018 20:31 utc | 130

@b

Meanwhile the protesters sing la Marseillaise.

The Marseillaise singers may not be that patriotic and nationalistic, as some people think. I notice that the anthem's lyrics are quite appropriate:

Allons enfants de la patrie Come, the children of the country
Le jour de gloire est arrivé The day of glory has arrived
Contre nous de la tyrannie Against us, the tyranny's
L'etandard sanglant est levé Bloody standard is raised
...
Aux armes, citoyens! To arms, citizens!
Formez vos bataillons Form your batallions
Marchons, marchons Let's march, let's march
...

(Just going by possibly fading memory...my translation's probably bad too)

Posted by: Cyril | Dec 9 2018 21:51 utc | 131

#57 laurent
"Engdahl sheds light on another well-known event, the
destabilization of French President Charles de Gaulle,
through the unleashing of the student revolt that nearly top-
pled him, and did force him to retire a year later. In 1967,
during an international monetary crisis, France had been buy-
ing American gold with dollars accumulating in France, be-
cause of a chronic u. S. balance of payments deficit. France
was urging the United States to rescue the international gold-
exchange system by doubling the official price of gold, in
effect devaluing the dollar against gold by 100%. This would
have doubled the value of the U. S. gold reserves, and rescued
the U. S. from its crisis, at least for a while.
The U.S. refused, despite direct appeals from General de
Gaulle. Why? To have devalued the dollar would weaken the
ability to maintain the U.S. as the center of world finance.
Instead, the U.S. government sought the creation of intern a-
tional funny money, called Special Drawing Rights (SDRs),
to be issued by the International Monetary Fund. De Gaulle
vetoed the proposal in early 1968. Within a few weeks of the
veto, the student riots began. Coincidence? Engdahl doesn't
think so. He presents the evidence for British intelligence
infiltration of the student movement in France. The effect
was to remove from the scene the only serious obstacle to
Anglo-American world domination."

A Century of War: Anglo-American on Politics and the New World Order
by F. William Engdahl

The angloamericans make sure there will be jewish stooges to spot.
400 years before Christopher Marlowe pointed out a similar levelled conspiracy but in that case the Knights of Malta was the master level and the jewish moneylenders were their bitches.
In 1968 people like Cohn Bendit was the useful fool and he still hasnt got it judging from how he characterises 1968 as a real revolution.

Posted by: Peter Grafström | Dec 9 2018 22:12 utc | 132

Haha and there we have it, by the usual deep state suspects, Russia is behind the protesting!

Hundreds of social media accounts linked to Russia have sought to amplify the street protests that have rocked France, according to analysis seen by The Times.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-accounts-fuel-pro
testers-outrage-online-xx2f2g8th

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 9 2018 22:33 utc | 133

@Posted by: Zanon | Dec 9, 2018 5:33:21 PM | 133

Of course, the real culprits will point at Russia, as has happened with the Skripalcase, the Kerch Strait incident and al what has happened in Syria, Ukraine and so on. As the IT experts of Foresicator have proved, anyone with the adequate knowledge can fake the procedence or date of posting of anything in the net.

Curiously, the not so easily accesible through Google search Eurasiafuture site is publishing an article with includes the declarations by Erdogan on the proved presence of people on drugs related to the Daesh members freed by the PKK in the riots in France. No wonder Trump´s schadenfreude...Thus, the French intelligence services who are investigating foreign interference in the riots are missing that clue....

Erdogan Injects Sanity Into Debate on The Yellow Vests of France

I always knew that the savage destruction exerted by some ( including completely destruction of post-offices...what sense that could have for a French used to appreciate and respect public services?...) was far from normal rage by outraged citizens, moreover being French, whom I know quite well, as live just by their side and we both go usually into each others country continuously since I have memory.

Of course, people in the US, most probably US stablishment stooges, felt the necessity to first insult me, and then label me a liar and even "fake ass -communist" for detecting that there was something very strange in certain kind of "protesters in military fatigues, masked, sunglassed and with white brazelets"...precisely those who have fled from US occupied zones in Syria where they fight the legitimate Syrian government and its allies Russia, Iran and Hezbollah in the ranks of the PKK.

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 9 2018 22:58 utc | 134

Renard@110

To echo you point about calling for a citizen referendum I offer this video of a retired General of the French Armed Corps (commander of the French Foreign Legion 1994-1999) proposing a citizen referendum to meet most of the demands of the French people. He warns that merely replacing Macron will just place another globalist in the chair. It is necessary to remove all current politicians (including Le Pen) a “Le Général Piquemal soutient les G.J propose un référendum d’initiative populaire”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1ZoY81RLy8


Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 9 2018 23:10 utc | 135

Renard@110
Here is another call for a referendum,this the by UPR to remove the GoldmanSachs-ocratie:
youtube UPR le referendum d'initiative populaire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M5PaCLcS90

Let us know your point of view. Thanks.

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 9 2018 23:18 utc | 136

@134 Sasha

I read that article by Adam Garrie and I was impressed. But I hadn't seen any corroboration of the provocateurs until you reminded us of your observations - thank you!

The article is important for what it reminds us that Gaddafi once said and what Erdogan is now saying, and what Duterte also knows - that terrorism is not only state-sponsored, as we know, but also fueled by some very wicked narcotics.

The overall reach of Garrie's article and Erdogan's statements suggest to me that terrorists cadres have been moving into Europe in the migrant waves, and probably now exist as a new Gladio force across the EU. Also, PKK now controls a part of the narcotics trade throughout Europe.

I'm not schooled in the flavors of organized crime, but I can only guess at the gruesome events contained in the story of the PKK Kurds moving into the territory of the Unione Corse, the Mafia, and whatever else exists.

~~

None of this detracts in any way from the yellow vests of course - just that every authentic movement will have its infiltrators and provocateurs. It's interesting, in this case, that we may be seeing some of the more coordinated public manifestations of pure terrorism on the streets.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 10 2018 0:05 utc | 137

@Krollchem Sorry if I hurt you but I think that General Piquemal and UPR are just internet phenomena and have no political weight on what is happening.

For the moment I believe in the gilets jaunes movement and I hope they will organize themselves with direct democracy principles. I will spoke about that next saturday to the gilets jaunes near my village.

Posted by: Renard | Dec 10 2018 0:26 utc | 138

I actually hope Erdogan's rumours, almost always slanderous and false, are here true: if accurate they would represent incredible international solidarity and a successful importation of ecofeminist communism from Rojava into the French protest movements. There is no direct proof of this yet, and Erdogan is a liar. But the Cyberguerilla website, which published the "Integrity Initiative" leaks, is now working to support the Yellow Vests (https://www.cyberguerrilla.org/blog/operation-france-yellow-vests-gilets-jaunes/). They have already published hacked lists of CRS and military. Cyberguerilla is heavily inspired by Rojavan Kurds and have launched operations against Israel Apartheid and Erdogan under their banner. What is definitely a link in the digital space, is hopefully fully realised…..

Posted by: Blooming Barricade | Dec 10 2018 3:13 utc | 139

Renard@138

Thanks for your perspective, I am not hurt. So many individuals and groups are trying to take advantage of this grassroots movement for profit and power.

My oldest memories of France and Belgium are from before Macron was born when welcomed into my wife's family and the day to day pattern of living before commercialism turned many into just consumers of goods.

I wish you a joyous Noel and a new year in your village. Here are some retro ways to be with family and friends in the old ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stZBDgmqIKI

Best wishes

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 10 2018 5:11 utc | 140

One of the leading Russian experts, a political scientist and historian Rostislav Ischenko, expressed an interesting opinion about the mass protests in France. The expert believes that the likelihood of UK' involvement in the organization of these protests is high. In particular, Ischenko said the following:


What is happening in France is very similar to the orchestrated anti-Macron action, being operated from outside of France. Because in its structure, these crowds that came out against [Macron] are pure Maidan. I.e. they all say "we have no leader", "we have nothing, we just got together by pure chance".
But it can't be "by pure chance". Even when trade unions, parties, or someone else protest - they create a steering committee. But these (protesters) are exactly like on the [Ukrainian] Maidan. [Allegedly] "accidentally" do something... [No,] This is organized.

Then, when the government — by the way, [this is] the standard procedure for France — compromised, that is, stated that it will not introduce new taxes for six months, and will not increase the price of fuel for six months, these [protesters] immediately refused [to accept concessions]. Moreover, initially they put forward the demand "Macron's resignation".

In fact, in France such clashes often occur, because there the people are used to the fact that they don’t need to work, while the state should carry about them, and the people are very indignant when [the government] is trying to somehow make them budge. In general, this has never put forward the demand for the resignation of the president. Even de Gaulle, who resigned in the wake of a student revolt - he firts put down this [revolt], and then essentially declared that he would resign if the constitution was not revised and he would not receive additional powers. As for the constitution, the people voted against on the referendum, so he left for voluntary resignation. I.e. even then - those riots are compared with the current - there was no demand for de Gaulle’s resignation.

In general, there are two reasons to “bother” Macron. The first is the American one, since he declared the need to create a European army, but from my point of view this is not a serious reason, because even before Macron the need to create a European army was declared almost every year, but so far they have not created it, and in the future it is extremely difficult to create it, because Europeans do not like to pay. They don’t want to pay in NATO either, but actually they will have to pay more from their own pockets for the European army.

And there is a second reason - these are problems with Brexit in the UK. The EU - this is primarily Germany and France - did not make concessions on any of the principal issues for the UK. Even the question of the Irish border seems to be resolved, but nevertheless, the in the EU they periodically say "Well, we can still think and change our mind". In Britain, the situation is such that most politicians say that if you submit a [Brexit] document for ratification to parliament, then anti-government protests can begin, in scale no less than [current protests] in France. [And] that the government actually stands "on promises only".

Naturally, in fact, that the British government should re-negotiate with the European Union. On the conditions that are spelled out, they will not be able to enter Brexit. I.e., of course, they will come out of the EU, but their own grateful population will constantly ask them the question "Why did you make it worse for us, while the obligations to the EU remain?". They have to re-negotiate. In order to make Europe re-negotiate, they need to create problems [for Europe]. Well, here're the problems being created. Because it’s not a fact that riots from France will not be transferred to Germany - [where] there are also enough reasons (for riots), ranging from migration policy to the same decrease in the standard of living, which continues for many years.

Even now, when it affects only France - this is a French and German problem too. If all the more riots expands, spreads to Germany, then the EU’s position will be very vulnerable, and the UK may begin to try to re-negotiate [on Brexit].

Therefore, from my point of view, it is possible that they will say about Macron that he is "a bloody dictator". Although on the other hand they can say that Russia invented all this in order to take "revenge on France for Ukraine".

It is quite possible that the protests are organized from the outside, primarily by Britain with the possible participation of the United States. The whole mechanism of development of events is really look like these two interested parties took part in it. Perhaps they did not participate fifty-fifty - I assume that the US participation was smaller, the United Kingdom took the main part. It really seems that this is their work in France.

I repeat once again, if you simply compare the mechanism of exactly the same protests for the exact same reason, which in France occur if not once a year, then once every 2 years for sure. Moreover, often these are protests of millions, that cover the whole country - traffic can be paralyzed, airports paralyzed, railways paralyzed, highways paralyzed - the country literally stands, does not work. This happens for weeks. Then the government comes and says, "Well, we came up with some kind of compromise here", so negotiations begin. And even if they squeeze more out of the government than this compromise [suggests], anyway, [it means that] someone sits down at the negotiating table with them.

But in this situation, it turns out that the government comes and says "Well, we’ve come up with a little compromise", but no one see them. Moreover, I repeat, from the very first days one of the main requirements is the resignation of Macron, i.e. a purely political requirement. Although the [French] government carries out the reform in coordination with the president, but it was actually the government who contributed the ideas [of the reforms]. I.e. they (the protesters) do not demand the resignation of the prime minister, do not demand the resignation of the profile minister, they do not sit down at the negotiating table. Exactly in accordance with the Maidan technology, they say "Make us a small concession, and we will demand more, and more, and more... until you give everything to us".


-

Source (video).

Posted by: alaff | Dec 10 2018 6:42 utc | 141

Who remembers, when it was that Macron publicly said, that EU should ditch USD and buy oil paying Euros ?

Gaddafi, Yanukovich, Macron...

#coincidenceTheory

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 10 2018 10:01 utc | 142

Its interesting that the issue now is once again Russia, that Russia is somehow behind the movement in France.
The psyops going on in front of us is disgusting, deepstate/MSM/hawkish politicians now push this meme hard.

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 10 2018 11:19 utc | 143

Just as last week, most of the people arrested (mainly "pre-emptively", i.e. the day before, if known as "ultra-left" or "ultra-right" and right when coming outside their buses for people who came from the regions) are
-unknown from the police for any previous crime
-from the regions

i.e. not professional looters/activists

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 12:51 utc | 144

Has this forum been infected by deep state trolls? The demonstrations in France are against a neoliberal puppet, against NATO and the EU. They are genuine, popular and progressive. Have you read their demands?
Nor is it the first time the French are angrily demonstrating. Actually, this is very common. Farmers dumping dung outside Parliament, etc. Remember the Nuit Debout against the El-Khomri Law? Was that a British PsyOp too, huh?

Sure, outside powers are infiltrating the movement, as is the french police with their Agent Provocateurs, as is various opportunists from both the left and right. But it is an expression of genuine grievances - as were large parts the riots in Syria and Ukraine, before they got hijacked.
But if you can´t see the nuances in this, it´s because you have that black-and-white simplified, melodramatic view of the world as most Putinists, who thinks that just because Russia are the more progressive/underdog part in the fight between US-Atlanticists and Eurasianists, he is a shining beacon of the oppressed. And even though he isn´t, we must still side with Russia against USA. That is the result of a dialectical materialist analysis of all the conflicts and contradictions in our complicated world.

Posted by: Dave | Dec 10 2018 15:36 utc | 145

Well, Anglos media claiming Putin did this is great, because French people know very well what's going on and why, and can easily see this for the complete joke it is. This way, they're actually pushing the bulk of French people to disbelieve future claims of "Putin did it", be it the US Russiagate or future Skripal-like British lunacies.
These idiots are really shooting themselves in the foot with that accusation.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Dec 10 2018 15:40 utc | 146

Mina (and other French people)

How big is this in France now?

Russian media covered the Yellow Vest protests; now France is investigating Russian ‘interference’
https://on.rt.com/9k79

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 10 2018 16:14 utc | 147

It is very big. Even public radios compare the movement to 1789 rather than 1968! Macron has tried last week to divide the protesters and even scare them (the gov said they had information about people coming to the demos "with the purpose to kill"), but the "preventive" arrests, the violence against the youth, has only helped to radicalize people. They might not try to come to Paris next week, but it will remain very strong in the smaller French cities.
Macron will make a speech tonight and announce what he offers, but the intelligentsia and journalists have had a very negative tone in the latest days about his arrogance and the fact he applied policies that were strictly the opposite of what he had claimed he would do during his campaign. The tone of some of the ministers has turned a little bit negative too, looks like the Titanic is getting close to the iceberg.
Most of the videos can be seen on the lives given saturday on the websites of lemonde.fr and leparisien.fr

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 16:40 utc | 148

Mina
Thanks for the update!
I was a bit unclear because I wanted to know if this: "Russian media covered the Yellow Vest protests; now France is investigating Russian ‘interference’" is big news in France right now?
link:
https://on.rt.com/9k79

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 10 2018 16:56 utc | 149

Two russian strategic bombers land in Venezuela.
So many things happening that the INF ultimatum is almost forgotten.
https://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-dispatching-blackjack-bombers-venezuela/

Posted by: Paco | Dec 10 2018 18:26 utc | 150

Macron: "No mercy." Let them eat bullets.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 19:47 utc | 151

ref Russian media supposed interference
no, nobody cares; it's not on the front page anywhere;
it appeared miraculously on the day before last saturday's protests, with the threat of "people out there to kill" and was certainly understood as an explicit way the gov was using to scare people and let some stay at home.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 21:10 utc | 153

Obviously immigration is the main issue. The natives has had enough.

Posted by: Alexander Grimsmo | Dec 11 2018 4:54 utc | 154

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