Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 09, 2018

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2018-66

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

Official numbers show a downtrend of participants in the recent demonstrations and an uptrend of arrests. These numbers may be true or may not be true:

Via AFP - bigger

As of Friday support for the yellow vest protests still stood at 66%. On Tuesday Macron will hold a speech to the nation. What concessions, if any, is he willing to make? Will they be sufficient?


On December 2 the Israeli police recommended to the general attorney to indict prime minister, foreign minister, health minister, defense minister, etcetera minister Benjamin Netanyahoo for corruption. Two days later the Israeli Army made a big show of digging up some disused tunnels at the Lebanese borders. Netanyahoo personally announced the operation in a Monday night TV speech. It was a classic 'wag the dog' move. It is now turning into an embarrassment.

First Hezbullah media made jokes about the whole endeavor. Hizbullah itself did not even raise its readiness status. It knows that Netanyahoo is deterred and does not dare to attack Lebanon. Yesterday Hizbullah's military media unit published pictures of Israeli soldiers operating at the border. The shots were taken from behind the Israeli lines!


The same day Israeli media report that the IDF soldiers at the border are missing two machine guns:

The guns were stolen after being found, as it appears, unattended.

The missing FN MAG machine guns were attached to vehicles and weight 12 kilogram each. Hizbollah's secretary general Hassan Nasrallah is likely to show them during his next public speech.

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on December 9, 2018 at 14:15 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Renard on the other thread mentions a citizens initiative. Macron could/should agree to a referendum. But the protesters are going to have to come up with some recognizable leaders at some point.

Posted by: dh | Dec 9 2018 15:04 utc | 1

link to picture says "twitter account suspended" ... hmmm.. censored of dud link?

Posted by: EtTuBrute | Dec 9 2018 15:06 utc | 2

- In 2006 Israel invaded (Southern) Lebanon. The soldiers were shot at with US made weapons. Those weapons were doled out in Iraq by the US after 2003 and made it into the hands of Hezbollah. In that regard, I am NOT impressed by this news.
- Netanjahu prosecuted by the justice department is a sign that Netanjahu is on his way out. Think: Naftali Bennett.

Posted by: Willy2 | Dec 9 2018 15:10 utc | 3

B, the "Yellow Vest protest" official figures, they are just nonsense.
60.000 cops on duty, 30.000 Gendarmes and CRS (the robocops), 30.000 Firefighters told to do the job of the police: a total of 120.000 mens for the gov.

1 per protester ....
and the Paris figure: 10.000 protesters alleged, 1000 arrest for Paris alone, 1 protester arrested for each 10 - this is just plain stupid and obviously false taken into account the number of video available !

Real figures of protesters is way above that: 500-600k at least for the entire france, and 50-80k for Paris alone. Destructions also have been understated: Arc de Triomphe, Champs Elysée were on total lockdown, but all the surrounding suffered major destructions. And many major cities had also a lot of destruction such as Bordeaux, Toulouse, Lyon, Marseille ...

I'm not from Paris, and I see our local yellow vest there. They don't fucking care about the evident strategy of the power to make them look bad. It's not going to end before Macron is gone. See you next weekend and all weekends until then !

Posted by: wesson | Dec 9 2018 15:23 utc | 4

Broad crossections of organised rightwing criminal gangs AKA "mainstream political parties" are retreating around the world today and the question becomes will the left follow-up and destroy these demons once and for all or will the left once again quickly retreat in too easy, too smug self-satisfaction while the well-oiled, well-heeled and well-organised forces of global elitism never sleep?

In the US these forces have spent the decade since Obama's election acquiring and solidifying massive undemocratic political clout...while the self-defeated left pointed the finger [correctly] at Obama for his cowardice and greed but we also forgot to look at ourselves in the mirror and do anything about our own loss of face.

Finally, Europeans seem to be shaking off the stupor of enforced austerity provided courtesy of their own criminal rightwing governments of the prior decade.

The meme is the extreme right created the French movement but this no longer their controlled experiment. The protests have now galvanised support across the political spectrum in France... and maybe elsewhere too outside western Europe?

The meme is the extreme right created Brexit but this is no longer an experiment held hostage by Tory political opportunists who should be held in contempt if not simply larffed off the public stage and destroyed once and for all through mocking abuse by their constituents. The latest UKIP rally in London is dwarfed by a counter rally of a multicultural rainbow coalition of urban Jewish faggots. A similar nativist rally proposed in Liverpool was quietly called off when counter-demonstrators showed up in force of much larger numbers.

In the US the picture is finally crystal clear: Donald Trump today stands accused of felonies, protected only by his ironic state of his criminally-intended presidency. He must remain in office to avoid prosecution for the payoffs to suppress public knowledge before the election of some of his various love affairs. The statute of limitations for these crimes runs through 2022.

There is more, of course, there is always more with wealthy businessmen in the age of corruption. The emoluments clause being one facet of Trump's potential downfall. The accusations of criminality will continue to pile up making a joke out of anyone who attempts to defend this otherwise two-bit, petty criminal outrageously blessed with an income tax-evaded $435 million inheritance from his rich daddy.

Will his party continue to follow behind him in lockstep like good Nazis to cast aside the delusional sham of Amerikkkan liberal democracy once and for all?

And will the people ennable our own downfall because we are "good Germans" standing in place with heads firmly planted in the sand or will we too don yellow jackets and commence weekend warrioring in our own cities?

Posted by: donkeytale | Dec 9 2018 15:32 utc | 5

"the protesters are going to have to come up with some recognizable leaders at some point.'

So they can be jailed? Or bribed? Or become what Daniel Cohn Bendit has become?
It is the great strength of this kind of movement that they do not hand over their decision making to media darlings, wannabes and demagogues. And not least because it keeps the establishment guessing: trying to work out which one of their crimes it is that the masses have found completely intolerable.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 9 2018 15:56 utc | 6

I agree with bevin above about the desire to not have leadership of a movement like this early or at all like we are use to thinking about it.

I would add to what would happen to any leaders that would emerge....they would be killed. Empire has been killing emerging oppositional leadership around the world for ever.

And to b's posting about the two stolen IDF machine guns....LOL!!!! I love the smell of karma in the morning

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2018 16:18 utc | 7

The BBC are now promoting fraudsters-

When Meenakshi Sarkar landed a job as a teaching fellow at Leeds University after a successful career in business in India

Some Googling brings up her profile, her last job in India 013–2014: Director Learning & Development, Earth Infrastructure Ltd, New Delhi, some more Googling and we find that Earth Infrastructure Ltd is a complete fraud -

Court dismisses bail pleas of 3 directors of real estate group Earth Infrastructure

Earth Infrastructures - Investor Alert ( regarding it being a fraud )

Earth Infrastructure Employees Are Fraud — EARTH INFRASTRUCTURE EMPLOYEES ARE FRAUD

Posted by: TJ | Dec 9 2018 16:18 utc | 8

@6 Burning cars and looting (yes I know police provocateurs are doing it) has its limits unless they want to burn the whole place down. Some probably would like that but I don't think they represent the majority of the Gilets Jaunes.

A referendum would help but it has to be framed with specific issues...economic, social, immigration etc. So the revolution needs a committee at the very least with spokespeople. Even in 1789 they had the Third Estate.

Posted by: dh | Dec 9 2018 16:23 utc | 9

I don't own a TV and haven't watched that device for years.

That said I just came across the opening for last nights SNL online that features Darius Trump and Them Trumps....and it is a hoot!

Yes, what would happen if Trump were black? It is encouraging that all snark has not been shut down on TV.

Go check it out at your favorite source.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2018 16:38 utc | 10

bevin @9

Blockchains R us, analog version!

I hope this topic of strategy efficacy eventually gets its own thread.

It is a fact that most of the oligarchy class and proximal kitchen slaves are lazy and tech illiterate but dependent: its why they hate the pure intellectual genius of J Assange, Huawei's quantum physicists, etc., and must rely on PR and media hacks and digital info for everything and try to impose their weaknesses by masquerading them as luxury and leisure utopia.

Aikido moves to use let them trip over their own weaknesses are in order. Hope the grassroots planners plan their next moves offline!

Posted by: slit | Dec 9 2018 17:51 utc | 11

To all:

I thought I was smart because I have read Thucydides and Caroll Quigley; I thought I had
an insight into the Northamerican soul because I adore Faulkner's fiction and Moby Dick.

The erudition of this bar's patrons has shut me up and sat me down to nurse a drink
whilst runinating the the variety of thought and opinion and convincing arguments
contradicting each other! I don't know enough myself to creditably make any comment.

My view is from a picturesque provincial city located on the southern face of the great
Mexican Central Altiplano. One can not clearly see USA politics from here. Ditto for the extravagent great-game machinations in South West Asia: I read the dialogs and consider.

Guerrero's Signature Link is found: my first movie. Azucena To The Rodeo,
This rustic work was filmed in Chaucingo, Guerrero twelve years ago in early January of 2007.

It's a modest genre-breaking work I am proud of,
produced with natural local actors and actresses.


Posted by: Guerrero | Dec 9 2018 18:09 utc | 12

Gentlemen: (being over 60, I was trained to use the masculine collective for addressing a mixed group.)

This is my response to the question about when in Roman history is the best “fit” for where the US is today. Rather than hijack a dedicated thread with an off-topic piece, I decided to respond in an open thread. I apologize for the length but I think this topic is important as its proper placement may bear on our likely futures.

It is popular to compare the US to the late Western Roman Empire just prior to the sacks of Rome by the Visigoths in the early fifth century. I think this is wishful thinking by those wanting to see an end to the US Empire. Unfortunately, the US Empire has a lot of life left. The elites will not go gently into the night. They will rage against the dying of their power. And they still have tremendous power.

In the fourth and fifth centuries in the Western Roman Empire, the “Roman” military strength was in their barbarian troops and their barbarian generals. Barbarians had even been emperors. Alaric, who achieved notoriety in history books for sacking Rome, had been a leader in the Roman military. To me, this doesn’t sound like the US today. At this time Rome was Roman is name only. The real power was in the hands of barbarians. (I use the term “barbarians” in the same way that people use “deplorables” today, as a badge of respect.) The Western Roman Empire was a hollow oak ready to topple at the slightest breeze. (Exemplifying Toynbee’s observations that civilizations suicided.)

On the other hand, the political, cultural and military situation of the late Roman Republic bears an uncanny resemblance to the US today.

After the defeat of Carthage, Rome’s military expanded its world-wide presence and trade exploded. Wealth and slaves flooded into Italy. The elites (patricians and equestrians) grew obscenely wealthy. They used every stratagem to expropriate land from the citizens as well as stealing public lands. On these lands they created vast farms (latifundia) run by cheap imported labor (slaves.) At this time slaves were also replacing Roman citizens as trained artisans and tradesmen. The Roman middleclass was being displaced by imported foreign labor and forced to live on government handouts (e.g., the corn dole). (Does this sound familiar?)

Sometimes members of the elite would champion the citizens and attempt to assuage their plight at the hands of the rapacious elites by passing land reform laws. Some, like the Gracchi brothers and Julius Caesar, were assassinated by the elites. Some, like Sulla, had their reforms undone after they died. The elites were too powerful; the citizens were too powerless. The citizens’ lack of power did not prevent them from rising in civil war against the elites from time to time. But each civil war was brutally put down by the elites.

The government was often deadlocked(tribune vetoes were a popular strategy.) Why? The elites liked the laws the way they were. Why change them? The power of the plebeian class was diminishing. The elites didn’t need them except for military service since the economy was flooded with foreign labor and foreign goods. Life was very good for the elites.

The head of the government (consul) was elected for a set term and there were term limits.

At this time the Roman army was still overwhelmingly composed of Roman citizens. It was at the peak of its power and almost unbeatable in the field. (Its worst defeats were in the future under the emperors.) At the end of the Roman Republic, the extent of Rome’s control and influence was at its greatest. The Roman economy was the greatest in the world (with the possible exception of China.)

Doesn’t this feel like the US today? The US military machine is the greatest in the world. It is an all-volunteer force of US citizens. It projects power around the globe. The US economy is the largest in the world (with the possible exception of China.) The elites are acquiring obscene riches and bringing in cheap foreign labor, supplanting US citizens. The Congress is gridlocked because the elites like the laws just the way they are. If laws do change, they change in favor of the elites, not the citizens. Sometimes members of the elite (cough Trump cough) rise to power by championing the masses of displaced citizens (deplorables). Whatever reforms they can ram through will be subsequently undone by the elites through their lobbyists.

The head of the government (president) is elected for a fixed term and there are term limits.

If this analogy has any merit, what is our likely future? Very depressing. A neo-con’s wet dream. The deplorables may initiate a civil war but it will be brief and brutally put down. The constitution will be suspended for the length of the “temporary” emergency (ha ha ha.) Presidential elections will be suspended and the president will be the first to rule for life (ala Caesar Augustus.) There may be a brief war with China that will result in the world being partitioned into areas of influence by the Chinese Empire and the US Empire. The elites will ramp up gorging on the wealth of the world. (Think of the world as Haiti.) The middle class will be dead. Israel may become the governor of the entire Middle East achieving its dream of reclaiming the patrimony promised to Abraham. Under the umbrella of US hegemony, there will be peace, the neo-cons’ fanaticized Pax Americana, because peace is good for rapine.

I’m depressing myself; I think I’ll stop here…

Posted by: TheBAG | Dec 9 2018 18:22 utc | 13

@EtTuBrute @2 - The hizb media account was suspended shortly after I posted the above

Sophia @les_politiques - 18:28 utc - 9 Dec 2018

Twitter has suspended the account of Hezbollah's mil media unit @C_Military6 just after it posted pics taken by Hezbollah militants of Israeli soldiers watching #Lebanon border, not knowing that they were being watched within shooting range.

It seems the IDF did not like the pictures ...

Posted by: b | Dec 9 2018 18:34 utc | 14

"the protesters are going to have to come up with some recognizable leaders at some point.'

i agrees if they are nervous maybe they could do an interview with the guardians or the bbc after all this not not necessary france republic is not likes china. in china they harvest the organs of the trouble france we would not never do this.
macron needs peoples he can do a deal with.this should happen now as we are losing many shopping coming into christmas in paris
paris should not be allowed to be held hostage here by these neo fashits

Posted by: lulu | Dec 9 2018 19:03 utc | 15

@Posted by: slit | Dec 9, 2018 12:51:44 PM | 12

Durign all the day of yesterday, Sputnik News was unable to be reached through my Windows computer....then it was possible through my Huawei phone.....

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 9 2018 19:09 utc | 16

@15 b... it seems israel also tells twitter what to do... or, twitter is run by the israeli's...

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2018 19:19 utc | 17

As a reflection on all what has happened during the weekend....

Imperialism makes shit and the world returns it to their faces

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 9 2018 19:24 utc | 18

Dear lulu, not to tell you what to do, as you sound in the midst of the troubles - stay safe and take the real value of Christmas into your heart - it's not about shopping. A recent example to follow is that of the Russians who took back their nation from oligarchical rule and faced punitive measures against their country which meant hardship at home. It hasn't been an easy road for them, and they had to make sacrifices. But it was worth it to get their country, their pride, their dignity, back.

I repeat, stay safe.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 9 2018 19:27 utc | 19

The pic shows a conscript army facing (if they knew which way to look) a highly trained and motivated force. A bit embarrassing for the Netanyahu and Lieberman types.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 9 2018 19:29 utc | 20

I think Colleen McCulloch wrote her excellent Masters of Rome series of novels about the last decades of the Roman Republic very much with the politics of the U.S. and other modern plutocratic republics in mind.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 9 2018 19:33 utc | 21

The Council that determined the agenda of the Athenian Assembly consisted of citizens randomly chosen.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 9 2018 19:38 utc | 22

I've seen lists of demands of the protesters. Some of the things I would

Criminal aggressions abroad must end.
Mass murders abroad must end.
Truth and Justice commission, not truth and reconciliation commission,
to try for crimes against humanity the top echelons of the illuminati pyramid, both masters
and their functionaries at every level of the government,economy and mass media starting with
the illuminati bankers, for instigating said aggressions and murders, by using the mass media
to diabolically deceive entire populations through the necromantic sorceries of mass mind control
programming techniques.
Obscene wealth to to be taxed out of existence so that never again can the said top echelons
use that wealth to set up mass media operations to subvert, pervert, corrupt and manipulate the
mass consciousness with said necromantic programming techniques, and false flags such as 9/11 and MH17,
to influence populations to support their aggressions.
God is not mocked. The obscene regime will be revealed as the festering pustule
it is,if it keeps spitting in God's face.

Posted by: evilempire | Dec 9 2018 19:38 utc | 23

@21 of course the pic could have been taken at the exact moment when the IDF soldiers looked back into Israel. It's not as if they are perpetually looking into Lebanon. Who knows? Hezb also produce propaganda.

Posted by: snail | Dec 9 2018 19:42 utc | 24

While reading this article about AI slaughterbots, I was wondering during how much time we will be able to protest and hold the capability to makes things change....

Terminator: imperialism needs the new astonishing weapons for its wars

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 9 2018 19:43 utc | 25

@18 James
wow, what an insight!

Posted by: nox | Dec 9 2018 19:43 utc | 26

@14 theBAG... thanks for the historical overview and your interest in drawing parallels with the usa today.. that was an interesting post!

here is where i disagree with your conclusions.. your quote "The US military machine is the greatest in the world. It is an all-volunteer force of US citizens. It projects power around the globe. The US economy is the largest in the world (with the possible exception of China.)"

the us military machine might not be the greatest in the world.. i have a feeling russia has surpassed the usa... i don't know for sure, but this is my feeling.. russia is in no hurry to prove it either.. you say the military machine is an all-volunteer force of us citizens? in fact, the usa seems to rely heavily on proxy forces, whether it be ksa, and etc in syria, and etc. etc.. that is a give me the money and i will do what you want force, not an all volunteer us citizen force.. it projects brute force around the globe via what can be bought with the strength of the us$... it is unsustainable, but may last longer then i am willing to entertain.. finally - the us economy is the largest in the world - this is based on financial transactions.. again - if the financial system that the usa is using to maintain and keep everyone in place is subject to breaking up - and i think it is - the usa economy as largest in the world, will look very different when this happens... plus- i don't trust economists..

so, while i appreciate the history lesson, i think you are wrong in your conclusions towards the bottom of your post.. i said this on the other thread too, without going into detail.. thanks...

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2018 19:50 utc | 27

@27 nox.. another drive by shooting, lol!

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2018 19:51 utc | 28

Russian S300 nowhere to be seen,

Syrian Air Defences Repel Strike on Damascus Airport - Reports

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 9 2018 20:20 utc | 29

Airbnb pledges to remove occupied West Bank settlement listings, Israel hits back

As you may recall, after Mike Flynn spoke with Russian Amb. Sergey Kislyak in December 2016, he was accused of violating the Logan Act, a 1799 law that bars unauthorized U.S. citizens from negotiating with foreign governments with which the United States has disputes. It is aimed at preventing the undermining of official U.S. government positions.

Based on the Logan Act, isn't it illegal for US companies and individuals to promote (in any way) Israel West Bank settlement building? The US Govt (officially) disputes the legality of Israeli settlements on the West Bank.

Yet Zionist activists see ANY boycott that involves Israel in ANY way to be an affront. It doesn't matter that Airbnb's action is only directed at a small portion of Israel. They have attacked Airbnb and threatened action in the US States that have make it illegal to boycott Israel (they claim there are now 25 US States that have done so).

The Irish Senate has also recently acting against the illegal settlements by passing a bill prohibiting imports of goods made in Israeli West Bank settlements.

More and more people are recognizing that Israel is NOT a democracy and that their treatment of Palestinians is counter to cherished principals of Human Rights. The Episcoble Church has now vote to divest from Israel, a dramatic change from only 3 years ago:

a measure that in 2015 failed even to get a floor debate in the House of Deputies, now sails to the House of Bishops backed by the deputies’ 619-214 vote.
As might be expected, the comments to that post are heated.

Lastly, pro-Israeli forces are gearing up to counter calls for divestment in the Socially Responsible Investing (SRI) community. Here is a description of the pro-Israel game plan for countering Socially Responsible Investing (SRI). Naturally, they treat the issue as an existential threat to Israel so as to rally Jewish investors and investment professionals to undermine any move by SRI professionals to act on human rights concerns wrt Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 9 2018 21:13 utc | 31

@TheBAG 14

IQ will drop in the US and Europe as the white population is dying off and is being replaced by brown migrants with IQ 85 - 90 and this will cause the implosion of the West.

I do not see a competition by 105 IQ China and 90 IQ USA (aka Brasil del Norte) or 90 IQ Eurafrica.

Posted by: Breeze | Dec 9 2018 21:30 utc | 32

In an earlier post I made mention of my first work of cinematic art, filmed in Chaucingo, Guerrero, nearly twelve years ago, in January of 2007. However, the URL of my signature: Guerrero reverted to a series of videos filmed at a small country-rodeo in Axixintla.

I tried again to sign my MoA account with "Azucena to the Rodeo", the story of a village
girl who fell in love with a bull-rider. This work is a bit of a genre-maker in-as-much
as it depicts Mexico culture from a non-hollywood perspective using natural-actresses
and actors: the sons and daughters of artisans, already prepared to enter the world of art.

Azucena to the Rodeo depicts the true Mexican culture that has NOT lost it's authenticity notwithstanding the terrifying assault of the globalist economy and its black operations.
Azucena To The Rodeo

Of historical note: On 30 July 2006 López Obrador and his supporters began organizing mass protests, marches, and civil disobedience, culminating in a massive rally in Mexico City's historic Zócalo. This gigantic protest was on account of the "robbery" of the election by the PRI. But those permanent protests proved to be inconvenient for the people who live and work in the city, so...

Felipe Calderón was sworn in as President and he immediately declared a War on Drugs
which has notoriously unleashed a torrent of exaggerated violence on the population:

Azucena to the Rodeo portrays Mexico, less than one month after Calderon's ascension.

The fly in the ointment for Felipe Calderon was that he had obtained the Presidency “by whatever means”, therefore the left-wing in Guerrero was insured the governorship, since the “López Obrador effect” had well-positioned the PRD Party in the rebellious South.

PRI Party dinosaurs went crazy watching the left taking over in Guerrero, when the great swing in electoral popularity was only a logical reaction to the stolen Presidencial election of 2006.

Hot money poured into the state, into political parties of every color. A new PRD militancy took on vigor and PRI political operatives trembled that this situation of Guerrero in the hands of the left might not prolong for decades.

So all manner of traps were set out, and traps within traps, to discredit the PRD with the population, hoping and intending that all those politicians would become corrupted by the burning funds of mysterious precedence; and so it did come to pass that, soon enough, the old PRD devolved into an ineffectual political entity with a substantial budget, but shamefully bereft of authentic ideals.

Very early in this process of the PRD Party's discreditization before the people, Lopez Obrador left the PRD, and started from scratch his own true-left party: Morena.

However, before a popular electoral political process could develop naturally, hot money was circulating greed, envy, mistrust, and chaos, as a savage narcowar erupted in Guerrero, with massacres, revenge killings, extortion, kidnapping, tortured, stabbed, dismembered, decapitated, flayed, burnt alive...

... and so the Book of History speaks ... So too, the Fiesta of Chaucingo!.

Here it is: my very first work of cinematic art, rustic as it is...

It's look into the joyous and rebellious soul of the Mexican people

...a look back in time to when Lopez Obrador was not President, when he was a loser.
Azucena To The Rodeo

Evidence of the new flamboyant violence was on bridges, in public squares and in the newspapers. The heightened sense of insecurity made guerrerenses almost forget about the teachers’ marches and the red flags of the striking miners.

The ill-gotten money invaded the places where there was no work
and the peasant saw it to be able to live and support his family.

In Costa Chica, community self-defense associations emerged, called “volunteer guards” by locals resorting to pre-Columbian civic modes to organize a reply to this new calamity of unchained crime.

Apparently puerile violence gave way to macabre and increasingly flagrant massacres in a pornographic recording of corpses with signs of torture in police notes on the internet.

But no one knew where La malilla came from, nor where
it escaped to, nor how it perpetrated its bad acts with such facility.

No one could tell where danger came from, nor who to trust.

And everyone was fearful that the least thing said might reach the ears of the gang. Supposedly among the evildoers it was also a deadly tangle of exfiltrations, and of betrayals.

Yes, gentlemen, we were on the brink of an abyss, the economic crisis was all over us; we felt the rigor of a great national disaster...
Azucena To The Rodeo

Posted by: Guerrero | Dec 9 2018 21:32 utc | 33

Z @ 30 - it was EW only, no attack on the airport. Maybe testing how to confuse the defenses there.

Posted by: the pessimist | Dec 9 2018 21:33 utc | 34


The current US empire will likely be greatly weakened when the US dollar loses its status as the world's main reserve currency. I once read that some historians thought the decline in the value of Roman currency in the late Empire was in part attributable to the loss over centuries of large amounts of precious metals, which were sent to China to pay for Chinese silk. Pliny the Elder supposedly made a famous comment about this: “By the lowest reckoning, India, Seres and the Arabian peninsula take from our Empire 100 millions of sesterces every year: that is how much our luxuries and women cost us.”

—Pliny the Elder, Natural History 12.84.

It would be rather ironic if both Rome and the US declined in part because of Chinese exports.

Posted by: Glenn Brown | Dec 9 2018 21:37 utc | 35

Nazi Breeze doesn't know Brasil speaks Portuguese, not Spanish, in yet another example of white supremacist ignorance. I hope they are some kind of sad troll because that would be slightly less pathetic than someone who unironically holds these views.

Posted by: George Lane | Dec 9 2018 21:41 utc | 36

TheBAG @ 14:

You can compare the United States with the Roman Republic / the Roman Empire however you want but, depending on what you cherry-pick and what you leave out, there are so many different and varied outcomes. Ultimately whichever outcome seems most credible to you depends on what you've been taught to believe. There is no one "right" outcome or "wrong" outcome and what you are led to, to think is most credible, can be subjective and depends on (among other things) not only what you've been taught about American history but also on what you've been taught about Roman history and on what Roman history you find in books, articles and the Internet - because so much of that has been filtered through a Western (and particularly British and American) point of view.

For decades there was a fashion among Western historians and academics to compare Classical Athens with the United States and Classical Sparta with the Soviet Union. The works of ancient historians like Thucydides were (may be still are?) shoehorned into supporting (at a distance perhaps) the Western point of view of the Cold War. Never mind that in his history of the Peloponnesian Wars, Thucydides refers to an episode in which the Athenians justify their brutal takeover and decimation of the people of Melos for refusing Athenian overlordship and having to take part in a war against their relations in Sparta.

Perhaps if you were to investigate Roman history away from the usual mainstream sources, like National Geographic, or investigate it from different points of view (by studying the histories of Carthage or of Persia under the Parthians and the Sassanians), you may come to see that Rome was an empire in its own way and not necessarily a model for, or to be modelled in the way of, the United States.

I must agree with James that the United States is not necessarily the pre-eminent military force in the world, especially when the Pentagon cannot account for most of its budget (into which billions are poured) and most of what is spent seems to be on providing work for rural and semi-rural communities that would otherwise be lost to drug addiction and despair, or on expensive projects like the F-35 stealth fighter jet that so far has yielded very little on its investment by the US and other countries involved in its design and construction.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 9 2018 21:51 utc | 37

Zanon @ 30:

Please read the article at that link you posted more carefully and come back and tell us that Russia hasn't yet delivered the S300 missile defence systems to Syria. And if you do come back and repeat what you said, then (a) you either are not reading very well, or (b) you are trolling.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 9 2018 21:58 utc | 38

I’m depressing myself; I think I’ll stop here…

Posted by: TheBAG | Dec 9, 2018 1:22:21 PM | 14
(Rise and Fall of the US-led Christian Colonial Empire)

I'm not surprised. Legitimising a hunch with detailed analysis, in order to guess the direction of a current trend, is a waste of time - made more so by attempting to compare the Roman Empire with the Christian Colonial Empire.

The Roman Empire was a civilising influence.
The CCE began as a gaggle of competing alliances of, and between, groups of state-sponsored anti-social thugs and bandits who delighted in destroying functioning societies for Fun and Profit. That the Americans finished up as Top Crooks was more as a result of good luck and geographic isolation (up to the 1940s) than good planning.

Now that Geographic Isolation is impossible, and as a result there's nowhere to hide, AmeriKKKa's future is grim unless it grows a brain AND learns some manners. Otherwise it can be, and probably will be, erased.

Jen @ #104 in the Les Deplorables thread hit the nail squarely on the head in a couple of sentences and a single, vital, observation. Without offending anyone...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 9 2018 22:24 utc | 39

speaking of twitter... usa state dept released this on friday..
"On Nov. 24, the Assad regime & #Russia falsely accused the opposition & extremist groups of conducting a chlorine attack in northwestern Aleppo. U.S. strongly refutes this narrative & has credible info. pro-regime forces likely used teargas against civilians in Aleppo on Nov. 24."

caitlin johnstone wrote an article bringing this up yesterday... for those interested -

Posted by: james | Dec 9 2018 22:32 utc | 40

@40 James

I heard this the other day and my jaw dropped. According to the State Dept, everything bad in Syria was either (a) done by Assad or (b) didn't happen (exclusive "or").

Posted by: spudski | Dec 9 2018 22:39 utc | 41


ITs not the first time, hundreds of times but Israel is more valuable to Russia than Syria so Putin wont give Syria the S300 to use against this threat unfortunately.

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 9 2018 22:49 utc | 42

Gearóid Ó Colmáin gives his take on the recent French évènements.

An Irish journalist, he lives with his family in Paris.

Begins 32.00 mins in:

Posted by: Richard | Dec 9 2018 23:10 utc | 43

Hoarsewhisperer @ 39: Thanks for the thumbs-up!

Posted by: Jen | Dec 9 2018 23:21 utc | 44

While the attempt is admirable, the execution is lacking in this comparison/contrast of two "heinous acts of gangsterism"--Khashoggi murder and Meng kidnapping. While I agree with the above descriptiuon of the two crimes, IMO the author's attempt falls short in proving their similarities.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2018 23:23 utc | 45

Federico Pieraccini documents the "Seven Days of Failures for the American Empire" the occurred as November ended and December began, while not including the Meng kidnapping. Seen from the POV of his article, Meng's kidnapping is a rather large show of weakness--that to get its way the only method remaining is Gangsterism and/or war. The author notes the unstoppable movement toward the implementation of a Multipolar world while not mentioning the clear winning formula of playing the Long Game versus the shortsighted Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 10 2018 0:03 utc | 46

Karlof1 @ 45:

A better comparison could be made between Canada's arrest of Sabrina Meng and the US arrest of Russian citizen Maria Butina on charges of spying on the NRA, supposedly to get access to Republican Party leaders and Donald Trump during his Presidential election campaign. Butina was being held in solitary confinement for up to 22 hours each day at least until September when the Russian embassy, the Russian Foreign Minister and Butina's lawyers forced her release back into general prison regime.

The Canadian action should worry Julian Assange if he were to leave Ecuador's embassy in Knightsbridge in London.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 10 2018 0:08 utc | 47

@41 spudski... that is about it! i am sure many in canuckistan view it the same way too, which is particularly disturbing... the propaganda is pretty thick and heavy and has been since the inception of this war on syria..

@47 jen.. i had read that maria butina was in some sort of solitary confinement... solitary confinement is essentially torture and meant to break a person, and this is on someone who has yet to go to trial... wonder when canada adopts the torture tactics of the great leader to our south?? as for julian assange... obviously he has done much good in revealing the nature of the beast.. for that the beast would like to crucify him... and bizarre as that is, there are a number of whackjobs in the usa cheering it on, convinced that assange is the reason the clinton e mails lost the election for those brain dead democrats... it would be hard to write a fiction book with as many non reality based observations that could compete with the reality the msm is offering up here... but many seem to view this as reality, as opposed to lies and more lies 24/7...

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2018 0:37 utc | 48

Hoarsewhisperer, Jen, Glenn Brown, James, Karlof1, et al

I have apparently violated unwritten rules for which I apologize to the bar in general. I am a sojourner in a strange land. What prompted my comments was that I have noticed a tendency at this site to believe that the power of the West and the US in particular is declining so rapidly that the "Evil Empire" will soon disappear, relegated to the dustbin of history. I think that may be overly optimistic and I tried to present an argument that Western Civilization may soon enter its Universal State phase (Toynbee’s term.) Obviously, I failed, probably a lack of both pedagogical and analytical skills.

Having said that, this is still my go to site for analysis of world events!

Posted by: TheBAG | Dec 10 2018 0:58 utc | 49

Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador was elected President of the United States of Mexico
in 2006, but many Mexicans hold this election was stolen by PANista Felipe Calderón,
who famously declared a War against the Narco Gangs to inaugurate his Presidency.

The fly in the ointment for Felipe Calderon was that he had obtained the Presidency
“by whatever means”, therefore the left-wing in Guerrero was insured the governorship,
since the “López Obrador effect” had well-positioned the PRD Party in the rebellious South.

PRI Party dinosaurs went crazy watching the left taking over in Guerrero, when the great swing in electoral popularity was only a logical reaction to the stolen election of 2006.

Hot money poured into the state, into political parties of every color.

A new PRD militancy took on vigor and PRI political operatives trembled that
this situation of Guerrero in the hands of the left might prolong for decades.

All manner of traps were set, and traps within traps, to discredit the PRD Party
with the population; hoping and intending that all those politicians of the left
would become corrupted by the burning funds of mysterious precedence.

And so it did come to pass that, that soon enough, the old PRD devolved into a shameless
political entity with a substantial budget, but entirely bereft of authentic ideals.

Very early in this process of the PRD Party’s discreditization before the people,
Lopez Obrador left the PRD, and started-from-scratch his own true-left party: Morena.

However, before a popular electoral political process could develop naturally,
hot money was circulating greed, envy, mistrust, and chaos, as a savage narcowar erupted
in Guerrero, with massacres, revenge killings, extortion, kidnapping, tortured, stabbed,
dismembered, decapitated, flayed, burnt alive...

Evidence of the new flamboyant violence was hung on bridges and displayed in public squares.

The heightened sense of insecurity made guerrerenses almost forget about the teachers’ protest marches and the red flags of the striking miners.

The ill-gotten money invaded the places where there was no work
and the peasant "saw it" and so was able to live and support his family.

In Costa Chica, community self-defense associations emerged,
called “volunteer guards” by locals resorting to pre-Columbian civic modes
to organize a defense against this calamity of unchained crime.

Internet police notes document evidently puerile violence given way to macabre
and flagrant massacres in a pornographic recording of the victims with signs of torture.

But, no one knew where La malilla came from, nor where
it escaped to, nor how it perpetrated its bad acts with such facility.

No one could tell where danger came from, nor who to trust.

And everyone was fearful that the least thing said might reach the ears of the gang.

Supposedly among the evildoers it was also a deadly tangle of exfiltrations and betrayals.

Yes, gentlemen, we were on the brink of an abyss, the economic crisis was all over us...

Posted by: Guerrero | Dec 10 2018 1:00 utc | 50

@49 theBAG... i enjoyed reading what you had to say.. you have't broken any unwritten rules as i see it.. i don't know that anyone knows anything for sure, but drawing from history to make parallels is worthwhile.. it was your conclusions that i and some other folks didn't agree with.. no big deal!

more details in an article in todays cbc on meng wanzhou

globe and mail article with more details of a different sort on same topic.

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2018 1:05 utc | 51

@46 karlof1

That's an excellent perspective from Pieraccini, useful to touch on several things.

One is the control of Syrian airspace that Damascus now holds thanks to the Russians. The S-300 has indeed been installed - as a resident naysayer here could know with a little diligent browsing - but hasn't even been used yet, because Israel's (now two) sorties into Syria have been defeated using older equipment (Pantsir in the first instance I think). The key gift from Russia was integrating SAA into its own electronic web, so that now Syria can see everything moving. Israel did us all the favor of demonstrating just how well it works, and how completely it has lost.

A second point is the China situation. At the dinner with Xi and Trump, even while scientists were thrown off roofs and CFO's were arrested, Trump nonetheless had to suspend new tariffs for 90 days, even as GM laid off 14,000 workers and closed five US plants. Trump declares victory and retreats.

We've watched this now for some years, that in every theater the US blows smoke and enacts theater, kills the hapless bystanders and withdraws, declaring victory - which it can do to its domestic population because of its propaganda coverage. The empire is indeed marching backwards, but I think we'll see more individuals arrested, murdered, and broken during the course of retreat.

I keep thinking of the link imo gave us in Open Thread #65, to the interview with Johan Galtung. He said that as the US lost its ability to manipulate the larger events and to use others to do its bidding, it would have to engage in its killing directly, by its own hand. Hence the drones and the Tuesday kill lists and the snipers all over the world, adjusting course here and trimming the sails of empire there.

I suppose this is what we're seeing here, with Meng and Zhang. As China by sheer geopolitical and economic reality changes the course of US action, two of its individuals get taken down. I think it's a good time to be a sovereign nation with a loyal army, but a lousy time to be an individual in an airport, or on a street, or at a concert, or just minding your own business in any innocent way.

I suppose the killing will continue and become more obvious and blatant, as all the dark secrets of the evil empire make their way out of the closet.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 10 2018 1:14 utc | 52

@51 Meng is making a good case for bail. It will be interesting to see what the Canadian judge decides.

Of course a lengthy drawn out extradition process was not part of the plan.

Posted by: dh | Dec 10 2018 1:26 utc | 53

Listen sorry to interrupt consideration of outrage de jour but I have posted on China malfeasance in Aotearoa in the Huawei. I don't seek to excuse this woman's abduction like most others I am appalled at amerika's gangster act, but I do despair at some poster's witlessness, they are so eager to believe the world is split between pols who are evil and 'leaders' who only want to 'do good' they miss the wood for the trees.
Read it if you want 'proof' that Chinese intelligence planted a military intelligence agent as a kiwi MP in the at that time governing National (conservative) party government. I was going to post more fully on this maybe I still will, but that and a huge bribery scandal the new government has uncovered likely goes a long way to explaining why the new government in Aotearoa allowed the spooks to do their 5 eyes thing when traditionally kiwi labour governments don't allow spooks to screw with relations with China.
It isn't just bribery and corruption bad enough, but the fact that the PRC has supported conservative politics which got everyone hopping mad.
All media coverage of the bribery bizzo is from right wing and neolib media, but the truth of the allegation has been supported by electoral commission investigation, and yes I have no doubt that amerika has done the same. I know they have done worse in Aotearoa, but that doesn't obviate the creepiness of scum of whatever nationality/allegiance undermining a political process which strives to keep money out so much that the average kiwi, reluctantly, pays out of taxes for the dire political bulletins which infest broadcast Vid every election cycle.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 10 2018 1:30 utc | 54


I have been saying pretty much the same thing here.

Its not a choice between West and East. The differences between the two are much like the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Basically the difference between Coke and Pepsi. Both are controlled by the Global Elite. There are Cultural differences of little import that will be resolved or minimized by a new Global Religion that is the driving force behind the Anthropogenic Climate Change Meme.

In terms of economics (equality) and authoritarianism there is little difference other than the West attempts to create an illusion of Democracy, Equality and Human Rights while China makes little effort to mask their contempt for these. Economic inequality is rampant in the East and West, as is trampling on basic human rights.

Much is made of the Evil of the US by those who are from elsewhere, but the complicity of most of these governments with US Wars, Sanctions, Trade and Economic Policies show the US alone is not to blame. As the richest and most populous Western Country controlling the the worlds chief reserve currency and also the Worlds largest Tax Haven the Global Elite have simply set up their base in the US to command operations on the Economic and Military Fronts that are meant to converge East and West. The decline in living standards in the West have been by design to allow the East to catch up, a necessity before East and West can be united under One Government.

For all intents and purposes East and West are basically united now. The surface skirmishes we see are the typical clashes you see between parties of any big deal before the deal is closed. Each party trying to get a bit more from the other at the end.

The end of the NWO is coming but the New NWO to come wont be any better for the bottom 90%. The neo malthusians will see to that.

Posted by: Pft | Dec 10 2018 1:35 utc | 55

@ Richard | Dec 9, 2018 6:10:10 PM | 43

Thanks for linking to that interview with Gearóid Ó Colmáin -- very worth-while!

Posted by: PhilK | Dec 10 2018 1:45 utc | 56

Question for the bar

Does Meng's capture make you think that it's more likely that CIA-MIT arranged for Khashoggi to walk into the Saudi consulate?

In other words, does Meng's capture indicate a greater willingness to use individuals to further foreign policy objectives? (Hostage taking being just one kind of action among many.)

Are we likely to see more such moves against foreign nationals?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 2:18 utc | 57

@57 "Are we likely to see more such moves against foreign nationals?"

Definitely. There are no restraints anymore. Who is going to stop it?

Posted by: dh | Dec 10 2018 2:23 utc | 58


IIRC, CIA initially said that they didn't know that Khashoggi was a target, but have subsequently indicated that they knew that he was a focus of MbS.

Seems like another big FAIL for CIA if they couldn't see the danger to Khashoggi. Incompetence or deliberate? Meng's capture has me leaning toward the latter view.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 2:37 utc | 59

@ Jackrabit and dh about the facets of our war

I agree with dh that "There are no restraints anymore. Who is going to stop it?"

I continue to project a soft landing to our social situation because I don't want to process the cumulative human pain until/if it happens.

I agree with others that have written about how much the hostage taking of Meng reflects the weakness of the West.

Another perspective I want to stress is that if private finance of the West felt secure in maintaining their power/control with the emergence of China we would not be seeing the geo-political cockup we are watching......The lipstick color may not change but a new pig is coming soon.....

or extinction because the remaining human-neanderthal's can't handle humanistic social evolution.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 10 2018 2:48 utc | 60

@james @48

Also the wackjob "resistance" cheering the Trump administration's charging Assange with all their charges of fascism against Trump, they cheer on one of his most fascist actions to date.

Posted by: QuietRebel | Dec 10 2018 3:18 utc | 61

Those arrests are useless as there is no central leadership of the YV movements and hence no hierarchy nor subordination to any leaders , they can arrest 50,000 it will not make a difference except the fear of people will abate and hatred for government skyrocket as if anyone with YV on can be arrested because of that, then it does not matter if they wear it or not as they can anywhere become innocent victims of government lawlessness and brutality that is natural response to criminalization of ordinary people's lives.

That is psychology or oppression.

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 10 2018 3:25 utc | 62

IQ will drop in the US and Europe as the white population is dying off and is being replaced by brown migrants with IQ 85 - 90 and this will cause the implosion of the West.

You may be in for a surprise. becasue it's one's IP that counts. The brownskinned people
are plenty intelligent; still, it's a matter of what one applies one's intelligence to. Isn't it?
White people may be a little too smart for their own good - give the brownies a chance
is what I say; history shows that a people only need a single smart individual, then
that person eventually shows the population how to be smarter. If a hero happens to be
born to one's people, that's good luck; it is better if the people are not overly smart,
then a genius can concentrate on the big picture. It only takes one single genius hero.

Posted by: Guerrero | Dec 10 2018 3:29 utc | 63

TheBAG @ 49:

My comment @ 37 is no more than a friendly chin-up to your comment @ 14, not to put too much credence into your point of view and to recognise that it is only a very subjective POV based on what you have been taught and what you may have been able to read. So much of what we think we know and so much of what seems "right" to us turns out to be just a particular interpretation or a narrow and subjective view of something much more complicated.

There is no unspoken law here that anyone has to believe that the US is on a fast track to oblivion, though it does look that way if only because, due to the world being more interconnected now than 2,000 years ago with faster and more immediate communications technologies, we give and receive information (and more of it) faster and events and their consequences move more quickly. What might have taken 100 years to occur 2,000 years ago may only take 10 years (or even less) to transpire and results may occur just as quickly.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 10 2018 3:38 utc | 64

I suppose this is what Debsisdead is talking about @ 54:

Adam Greene, "FOI documents uncover Australian link to NZ MP Jian Yang embroiled in Chinese spy scandal"

The business regarding Chinese-New Zealand businessman Zhang Yikun's donation to the National Party is an issue the Nationals have to answer for. It seems on the surface that Zhang has not done anything illegal in making a large donation. I should think that anyone who travels between China and New Zealand a great deal for business and community reasons inevitably collects a lot of contacts with the Chinese government at national, regional and local county levels. Zhang (b. 1972) may also be of a generation of Chinese people subjected to the military draft wherever he wanted or not.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 10 2018 3:54 utc | 65

TheBAG | Dec 9, 2018 1:22:21 PM | 14

Remarkably, nowhere did you factor in Russia.
It rather makes your entire post moot, no?

Posted by: V | Dec 10 2018 4:21 utc | 66


The Acapulco I remember featured those wonderful pink jeeps from the Las Brisas resort. Yet Guerrero, and the rest of the country for that matter, was always a dangerous place. I have to say that the Mexican style of violence is unrivaled anywhere. Yet it’s refreshing from the perspective that the virulent malignancy that powers the cashflow in Mexico is even too toxic for foreign meddling. I wish them luck.

Posted by: Stumpy | Dec 10 2018 4:56 utc | 67

Posted by: Jen | Dec 9, 2018 10:54:47 PM | 65

Jen please I didn't realise you were so binary tht you believe one side evil other side always good. The fact is that there has been a lot of corrupt interference in Aotearoa politics, some by Chinese nationals and some by the PRC government. I'm pissed about it because A) like every other creep they 'give' far more to conservative political parties than they do to lefty administrations and B) a lot of effort by a lot of ordinary kiwis has been put in to trying to keep money outta politics. In particular public funding of campaigns which is problematic because it favours parties with previous electoral history making it tough for a 'new kid on the block' has been supported because everyone was jack of the creepy conservatives taking mobs of money from amerika and england to favour them. Now it turns out that PRC does the same.

I didn't fill the post up with the right wing apologist nonsense which is most of the mainstream media coverage on this issue but don't be so f***ing naive as to pretend it isn't happening. I lived and worked in Canberra long enough to know ANU is the training ground for Oz spies through its links with Duntroon & I have no doubt this guy was up to no good there as well.

The notion of a bloke who taught Chinese Military Intelligence spies for 7 years being an innocent draftee is laughable exactly the sort of tosh sent up here when amerika spouts it.

I have no doubt that this creep wasn't the first foreign agent to become an MP there is considerable evidence to believe englanders and amerikans have done the same decades back.

Some of us have had enough and are campaigning to make sure that only citizens can vote and to go furher than Oz in prohibiting dual nationals from entering parliament by insisting only candidates born in aotearoa may run for Parliament. We tried it the other way and got rorted.
There is nothing anti-asian racist about any of this, I for one am sick and tired of brit born creeps full of nonsense about 'ow we did things back 'ome sleazing into kiwi politics. These imports always tout failed englander amerikan or now Chinese policies for a society with a totally different population density, culture and general values. screw 'em.

PRC is no longer the non-interventionist state of Mao and Chou en Lai, I realise few on the 'left' enjoy acknowledging this but there it is.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 10 2018 4:59 utc | 68

Debsisdead @ 68:

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Zhang Yikun is a spy or is working covertly for the PRC or the CCP. If he is or was a member of the CCP, he needs or needed to be to advance in his career and to get the connections, not because he is or was loyal to the Party, in much the same way that Iraqis once had to be members of the Ba'ath Party before 2003 or Russians had to be members of the Communist Party before 1991 (or Saudis having to be part of their royal family by blood or marriage or tribal allegiances for that matter) if they wanted jobs, careers or access to mentors or business / social networks. Doesn't mean that he has been brainwashed or is consciously (or even unconsciously) working to advance the Chinese government or the CCP's interests in whatever he does.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 10 2018 5:22 utc | 69

The zionist entity is a culture of lies. The whole story of the two guns 'found and lost' is proof of how sick this racist entity called Israel has become.

Posted by: Hem Lock | Dec 10 2018 5:52 utc | 70

Below is a ZH link reporting about how the US has been fueling Saudi jets pounding on Yemen for free.

Free Gas Over Yemen's Skies: Saudi Jets Refueled By American Taxpayers Due To "Accounting Errors"

It is not just the 3-letter agencies in the US that are corrupt and misguided but the military as well....and if we are to understand the shit going on in the US, the 3-letter agencies and the military are fighting to see who can front the sickest group of global social perverts.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 10 2018 6:47 utc | 71

@60 Psychohistorian

"humanistic social evolution."

A pretty turn of phrase, thank you for introducing it here. May we be graced to see some of that in the days to come, in contrast to "full spectrum domination".

Posted by: Mark | Dec 10 2018 7:05 utc | 72

I have apparently violated unwritten rules for which I apologize to the bar in general.
Posted by: TheBAG | Dec 9, 2018 7:58:29 PM | 49

You're not violating any written or unwritten rule at MoA by expressing an opinion with which people might disagree, on an Open Thread.
The people who tell you they disagree with it aren't either.
The only firm rule is to refrain from deliberate insults.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 10 2018 8:11 utc | 73

CNN has now the tape

Fisk explained last week that the consul while denying any knowledge of the murder, actually knew very well that the body had been dismembered, as shown by his opening of cupboards to the journalists when he had them visit the consulate!

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 9:07 utc | 74

How will the EU answer the pressures put on it by the Empire with the arrest of the Huawei CEO? She was arrested for "business with the enemy", and the European businessmen who wish to do business with Iran must be flipping out.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 9:09 utc | 75

logic vs emotional hype
evidence vs ... not really sure what
science vs ...a weasel...(?)

postol (MIT) vs higgins (bellingcat)...they go head to head, on camera...

scroll towards 10minutes from close to see the fireworks... watch higgins immediately shoot for the smear...

Posted by: MadMax2 | Dec 10 2018 11:32 utc | 76

I read to quickly, they don't have the tape but read a full transcript.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 12:52 utc | 77

spies, coppers and hells angels have a lot of similarities the biggest being they are never ex-cops, ex-spies or ex Hell's Angels unless sacked but while the Angels I have known who have been given the flick have to get rid of their tatts and would get a hiding if they tried to talk to a former brother, even sacked coppers & spies seem to stay with the team..
I dunno why you are so determined to defend this creep who shilled for the tories leaning on other Chinese migrants to support the Natz. The bloke is a spy and should be deported. One good thing - the revelation about him which occurred before the last election, certainly cost the tory National Party government.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 10 2018 13:03 utc | 78

Scot fishwrap the Daily/Sunday Record has story on how the two million pounds the foreign office gave Statecraft to fund Russophobic garbage spreaders the Integrity Initiative, ended up paying for articles attacking UK leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn. It seems bellingcat may have to find a new sugar daddy.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 10 2018 13:09 utc | 79

Debsisdead @ 70 and 80 - the disability and pension benefits are very, very good for the pigs, especially in big city USA...easily qualified at a young age (for emotional as well as physical distress) one can go on to a second career and receive multiply sourced monthly payments for the rest of one's for the Angels, at least the chapter in my home town (mixed-race banlieue east of downtown LA) most were pensioned off to either the big house or the big sky at relatively young ages...

Thank you for your candor on this thread. Refreshing to see, in fact. We all tend to smack our favourite targets with impunity while remaining silent about others who are in fact just as rotten, just as revilable and also just as much the enemy. Both sides suck in this demented game of imperialist "multipolarity". And I grok temporary, strategic support of one side against the Evil Empire, but...

One can ignore only if one feeds at a very tiny circle of homogenous propaganda troughs...

Posted by: donkeytale | Dec 10 2018 13:40 utc | 80

donkeytale says:

One can ignore only if one feeds at a very tiny circle of homogenous propaganda troughs...

well, like Sonny Barger, founder and longtime leader of the Oakland chapter of Hells Angels, once said:

there are three kinds of people in this world. those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened

Posted by: john | Dec 10 2018 14:15 utc | 81

this is all hezbullar propaganda these are part timers the idea that they could enter israel via stealth and take heavy weapons under the noses of idf and idf golani brigades is fancifull at best.

it is good that some think hezbull are super human as when they are deconstructed by the idf it will simply be proofs that israel cannot and never will be challenged. partimers are not the solution for a battle ready army and country let these folks talk that is all they are good for.
israel is the tip of the spear if it falls so does the west.we should all get behind israel now and fight if needs be

Posted by: anders | Dec 10 2018 14:35 utc | 82

@ lysias 22
I had forgotten them. I have happily started a reread. Thanks :)

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Dec 10 2018 14:38 utc | 83

John - good one! LMAO

Posted by: donkeytale | Dec 10 2018 14:41 utc | 84


…just as rotten, just as revilable…

Name one country China has invaded in the last 50 years. Name one country China has violently regime-changed with the help of massive propaganda, against the best interests of the country's population, in the last 50 years. Oh, you can't.

Perhaps it was Russia that has promised that the Warsaw Pact wouldn't move one inch to the West of Germany, then expanded to all of Europe, and is now trying to include Texas in its aggressive bloc? Nope.

Your constant false equivalency propaganda only serves the Empire of Lies.

If China or Russia ever become more evil (lying, manipulative, duplicitous, aggressive) than the West, the MoA commenters will immediately switch to defending the West. It is such an obvious, trivial truth, that no one at MoA, except a "genius" like you, even mentions it. Well, guess what, China/Russia are significantly less evil than the West at the moment, so your point is moot.

Posted by: S | Dec 10 2018 14:56 utc | 85

The only difference is the power they actively project for various reasons - usually because they are weaker or less influential or perhaps somewhat less ambitious. But there are no "good" governments - establishment always tries to assert its power as much as it can get away with. If you think that Russia, China, Africa taking over the world order will result in a better world, you are sorely mistaken.

Besides, in many of the conflicts between various groups of hardcore nationalists, globalist oligarchs are all simply working off of each other. Russian oligarchs point to the Western ones and say "look at them, they're the evil ones!" as they rile up the Russian crowd in support of themselves, while Western oligarchs do the opposite. No doubt the same is happening in China. You are be played if you think there is a "good" oligarch on any of these supposed "sides."

What needs to happen is the abolishment of ALL centers of power. Moscow, Bejing, Brussels, Washington, Riyadh, Tehran -- ALL of them need to be destroyed. We need is a world where governments don't have ANY military and there is NO obedient media backing ANY of (((their))) wars (on ALL sides). Fuck the globalist elite. The rootless international clique (from ALL ethnicities, countries, etc) need to be made powerless. Chinese, African and Russian oligarchs are no better than the Western and Middle Eastern ones.

Posted by: flayer | Dec 10 2018 15:37 utc | 86

Theresa May postpones the inevitable.

May postpones

I'm counting the days for her deserved downfall.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 10 2018 15:44 utc | 87

S-300 has indeed been installed - as a resident naysayer here could know with a little diligent browsing - but hasn't even been used yet, because Israel's (now two) sorties into Syria have been defeated using older equipment (Pantsir in the first instance I think).
Posted by: Grieved | Dec 9, 2018 8:14:01 PM | 54

The S300 is an integrated system, not just a bunch of missile launchers. The missile launchers on their own would be pretty useless. An article (Martyanov, if I remember correctly) somewhere a few weeks ago gave a pretty detailed analysis. What matters most is the radar, the guidance, and the integration. Syria had large numbers of S200s, which are now all totally integrated with the S300 network. The S200 has an even greater (slightly) range than the S300 missiles, but its built-in guidance system is weak. Now that the S200s are totally integrated into the system, the S200 missile - even after it has been launched - can be guided to its target by any radar(s) in the network - and that includes radars mounted on an S300 battery (the S300 battery typically consists of 3 or more vehicles, one of which is a radar/control etc). The S300 radar in particular, it seems, would guide the S200 missile very well. Therefore just because no expensive S300 tubes have been fired off does not mean the S300 system was not controlling the firing. The Pantsir is also totally integrated, and firing smaller cheaper Pantsir rounds at drones or small rockets is more effective especially at close range than using big heavy S300 missiles intended for big targets at great distance. The system can probably decide for itself the most effective tool to use. The S300 is key.

Does Meng's capture make you think that it's more likely that CIA-MIT arranged for Khashoggi to walk into the Saudi consulate?
In other words, does Meng's capture indicate a greater willingness to use individuals to further foreign policy objectives?
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 9, 2018 9:18:57 PM | 59

Even at the time of the Khashoggi murder I stated I believed there was some cooperation between CIA and Turkey to bring it about, but with different (partially contradictory) goals, and probably not 100% together. CIA wanted Khashoggi murdered to bring down Trump, and as secondary target MbS, and install their agent MbN. Turkey wanted to use it to blackmail both Saudi and US (of the latter especially Trump, but overlapping with the interests of the CIA). The CIA cooperated, but the fish got away; Erdogan on the other hand was highly successful so far, although the action is not over yet.

I am sure there is no causal link from one to the other (Khashoggi/Meng), but both are part of the whole picture, including so many other events such as the Azov idiocy (apparently ordered by the US; but still intrinsically US idiocy even if not), the threats to embargo Russian energy transport, threats to bomb Russian missiles, etc. Everything is boiling over at once, and is all symptomatic of very extreme desperation of the US, flailing its arms in impotent disarray. As the Federico Pieraccini article Karlof1 linked to @48 points out, every single thing the US does backfires and hastens its own disintegration. Meanwhile both China and Russia are patiently and calmly sitting it out, wisely piloting their way around the minefields to deflect US attacks and make sure the full force of the US attacks falls back on the aggressor.

Yes, we will see more brutal attacks on innocent foreign third parties like Meng, more terrorist false flags, more official bulldozing, more Skripal-like events, more chemical attacks, ... more of everything and worse. No white flag from the US in sight, and won't be for a long time yet. This bugger will go down, but he will go down very destructively.

Look back over the last month, 3 months, 6 months, year, 3 years, 10 years, 20 years - the effects we are seeing right now started long ago, but are increasing exponentially and drastically to ever more dizzying heights. The outrages get ever more outrageous and blatant. The US is prepared to do ever more things out in the open (that they have always done, but previously tried to keep covered). Now they are not even bothering to cover up many things. Soft power is passée (doesn't bite any more), now it is sheer gangsterism all the way. Before they controlled the narrative, but now they have lost that control because they have so regally lost credibility. So they dive wildly (and as everything else incompetently) for the censorship button, causing their credibility to nosedive even further and the narrative to spin ever more out of control.

An important truism is that every despotic regime has officials who are just trying to feed their children, who do what they are told most of the time, but who are prepared to quietly and discreetly drop a spanner in the works at particular crucial moments when they are dissatisfied with what the regime is doing. As the desperate flailing increases the number of officials within the regime who are dissatisfied increases exponentially, the number who are prepared to drop a spanner in the works also increases exponentially (that is, exponentially from a very very tiny level), and the number of opportunities for so doing also increases exponentially, all of which massively hinders the regime's capability to achieve any of its goals and massively increases the chances of each aggression being critically botched. Rinse and repeat.

Posted by: BM | Dec 10 2018 15:47 utc | 88

BM: CIA wanted Khashoggi murdered to bring down Trump ...

IMO Trump is a Hillary protege who was installed by the CIA/MI6. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing.

Enjoy the show.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 16:01 utc | 89

Actually, Clinton protege (both Bill and Hillary).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 16:08 utc | 90

flayer 88 "If you think that Russia, China, Africa taking over the world order will result in a better world, you are sorely mistaken."

What makes you think the likes of Russia and China with their current governments are intent on taking over the world.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 10 2018 16:10 utc | 91

RE: Posted by: S | Dec 10, 2018 9:56:24 AM | 87

If you think China is in Africa out of the goodness of their hearts, you are wrong. Here's China "donating" a building to the African Union - and promptly spying on them:

China is building infrastructure in Africa for the same reason that the Europeans did - to exploit their resources. China loans African countries the money to build the infrastructure, which then must be repaid. Obviously common Africans like the infrastructure and think of China as a force of good, but in the end they will use their increased currency value to the same neoliberal post-imperialist effect. The time is slowly becoming ripe for them to achieve this.

China is already expanding their military to Africa. Do you reckon they are doing that for the sake of Africa, or because there are monetary gains to be had from doing so?

DISCLAIMER: The West is imperialist, decadent and vile in its neoliberal oppression of both their own populations and the rest of the world. I make no apology for that - I am from the Netherlands, we have our own colonial/imperialist history and modern post-imperialist neoliberal policies (we invaded Iraq with the Americans and much of our globalist elite and their can be found abroad). I simply wish to abolish the disillusionment that some people seem to have with other nations as they begin/continue their own imperialist adventures.

Posted by: flayer | Dec 10 2018 16:13 utc | 92

RE: Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 10, 2018 11:10:40 AM | 93

See my previous post for indications of that very thing happening in Africa.

(Also, I see I wrote "apology" instead of something like 'excuse' or 'vindicate' or something in my disclaimer, I dunno - it's possibly a translation error on my part as "excuse" can be used in various meanings in Dutch and I felt the need to use an explicitly English word rather than just 'excuse' -- what I mean to say is that I don't want to make light of the West's evilness)

I think the best that we can hope for is a balance between 'the West' and other nations as Western power declines. A truly multi-polar world, as Putin claims he wants - although he only says that as a form of propaganda and because he wants Russia to be able to assert itself in neighboring countries. Again, it's the balance of power that prevents these nations from expanding - not their inherit "goodness"

North Korea is another such example. I don't give a shit about their nuclear program, or that of Iran. But Kim Jong Un wants to open up to the West because he's effectively a neoliberal - he sees it as a way to increase his own wealth and power (and thinks he can hold onto it through the same methods as Westerners do). If it gives his people better living standards, that's a nice side effect too.

Proof that KJU is a neoliberal? Just check this interview (I know it's BBC, but still, it's hilarious how aptly the North Koreans describe neoliberalism and the "law and order" bullshit, and the FBI practices in "fighting terrorism"):

Mostly, people criticise Kim Jong-un for being a businessman," she says, reflecting wider discontent.

"People say that he acts the same as us, but takes away our money.

"[They say] the little man uses his head to suck up money like a little vampire."

Sun Hui says the number of local people who assess Kim Jong-un positively is increasing, because he leaves the markets alone and "doesn't crack down much, no matter what we do".

.. snip ..

A single camp can hold as many as 20,000 inmates, according to Amnesty International.

It is the "terror" of such camps that "keeps society going", according to Sun Hui.

She says "there's a lot of government captures" where she lives.

Chol Ho believes some people are sent there by the Bowibu because officials "make up stories for their own performance".

"They make people say that they were planning to go to China, and then report them," he says.

"Sometimes people get caught by the state security department, the Bowibu, for saying the wrong things," he explains.

"People do suddenly disappear, but it hasn't happened here recently."

Posted by: flayer | Dec 10 2018 16:51 utc | 93

Extended and rather irrational rant from Debs at Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 9, 2018 11:59:31 PM | 70 and related:

If, for the purposes of argument, some otherwise innocuous Pacific island nation suddenly carried out a Khashoggi-like murder, world popular opinion would be rightfully outraged and disgusted. But since it was actually Saudi Arabia wot did it, we have to be more circumspect, and take it in its context, and popular opinion should rightfully point its finger instead at the infinitely more outragious genocide in Yemen being carried out even now by the US-SA-UAE coalition while the MSM are silent.

In the same way, there may or may not be something in some alleged smalltown Chinese spy scandal in New Zealand, but in the bigger scheme of things it is totally irrelevant. Spying happens. Not just Russia and China but all the big players are constantly spying on each other, competing to get influence and geopolitical advantage. Considering the was iFUKUS operate China and Russia would be suicidal idiots not to play the game, but whatever they do cannot compete with iFUKUS in sheer brutal idiotic evil.

If this alleged spy story is really true and not just something concocted by the lying media and lying governments and if it is local to you then it is right for you to be concerned and good to get involved - but spewing out Skripal-like accusations and trying to paint China as grotesque evil is just pandering to the cravings of the MSM propaganda mongers. It is not helpful. It serves to divert attention from the issues that really matter. It is a local issue not a global issue. Wake up Debs, you are being a plaything of the elites.

Posted by: BM | Dec 10 2018 16:52 utc | 94

Posted by: flayer | Dec 10, 2018 11:51:34 AM | 95

blah blah blah - try opening your eyes sometime instead of mindlessly regurgitating MSM propaganda

Posted by: BM | Dec 10 2018 16:57 utc | 95

>Chinese, African and Russian oligarchs are no better than the Western and Middle Eastern ones.
>Posted by: flayer | Dec 10, 2018 10:37:59 AM | 88

I appreciate that Chinese Dear Leaders have more than a billion people to feed and house. I can understand they need to keep all those folks pulling in more-or-less the same direction. Even though they have had a few thousand years to figure it out, they are still organized as a hierarchy with huge disparities between the rich and the rest. The Pyramid of Capitalism describes their society just as it describes "The West".

From what little I know about China, life for the average Chinese peon is still not too good. It is only a matter of time until now-urbanized Chinese workers find themselves replaced by automation and cheaper labor in Africa. One might think that the prospect of mega cities of millions of disaffected workers might keep Chinese Dear Leaders awake at night. Perhaps they are too busy shadow-boxing with Uncle Sam to notice.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Dec 10 2018 17:02 utc | 96


I agree with your perspective. Yes, they are not benign. But that doesn't mean there is any equivalence between them and the AZ Empire or that it would be net positive if the AZ Empire prevails.

If Russia-China fail, we will have a uni-lateral world order with no real constraint on a single authority that wields virtually unlimited power.

That's a scary prospect because despite all the good things we've come to believe about the Western liberal tradition (liberty, democracy, human rights, etc.), our societies have simply not been able to prevent elite corruption and adventurism.

Capitalists tell us that competition is a good thing. So let these national groupings compete for our blessing. That is the only way ordinary people will get anything more than crumbs from TPTB.

Crumbs? Yeah: Obama's proposed solution for record inequality is that two working parents should make enough money to raise a child just above the poverty line. And Obama was (supposedly) the most "progressive" President we've ever had. Change You Can Believe In? Not!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 17:02 utc | 97

Why the French have had enough of Macron (some of his best quotes)

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2018 17:10 utc | 98

flayer 95

I see the face2faceafrica crowd is based in New York. The article was based on an investigation by Le Monde which is French government owned.
According to the article, the Chinese installed computers which were sending data to a server in Shanghai. Nothing on who owned or leased space on the server. The African union removed the computer system installed by the Chinese and replaced them with what... a western installed doesn't say. Africa is the old french imperial hunting ground and they are still playing there. US military is moving into Africa in a big way although quietly.
A lot of China's oil comes from Africa. Since Obama's announced pivot on China, China has been making moves to protect their oil supplies and SLOC's

Due to the sources, and the western, mainly US UK habbit of projecting onto others what they are doing themselves, I don't place much importance on your link, but at the same time China would be foolish on not gathering information on what the US and French are up to in Africa, and which way the African countries are going regarding US.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 10 2018 17:17 utc | 99

I wish I could find the link for this, but I have seen one commentator on China (one of the few in the west who actually know the place) conclude that everything people in the west think they know about China is wrong - even people who feel inclined to support China. That's a pretty sweeping condemnation but I see it borne out by almost all of the discussion I see.

If you want to begin to get an understanding of contemporary China, start with Ramin Mazaheri's 8-part series of articles. What's useful is that Mazaheri takes mainstream textbook description of China and contrasts this with an authoritative view based on Jeff Brown's recent book, "China is Communist, Dammit!"

This link goes to the 8th part in the series, because it's the only one with all 8 links in it, at the bottom., but the title is that of the first part: Old vs. new scholarship on the continent of China: an 8-part series

It's recommended reading for those who actually would like to begin to learn about China, instead of repeating the propagandized non-fact that we have all absorbed to some degree, whether we know this or not.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 10 2018 17:28 utc | 100

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