Trailer Trash @98–
PRC’s leaders are very much involved with increasing and prolonging the continued upward trajectory of their populous, now at 1.4 billion strong. The proof lies in their numerous planning documents and related publications, most of which are in Mandarin, and thus difficult for us non-Mandarin users to access. IMO, what PRC’s leaders and their followers have accomplished is amazing–read Pearl Buck’s Good Earth and compare its description of conditions with those now existing. There’s absolutely no way any unplanned economy like that of the Outlaw US Empire or EU could have attained similar accomplishments. PRC’s leaders are also very aware of their nation’s ecological problems and how they interact with their future plans.
Fundamentally, PRC’s leaders do not see the game of Monopoly and its outcome as a basis for a functional civilization, nor does Putin and his circle, along with many others. This is where the fundamental ideological divide lies. The Outlaw US Empire wants to continue its Ponzi Scheme-based game of Monopoly, but Russia, China, their SCO partners and those aligning with their Eurasian projects will no longer sit at the table, which the Outlaw US Empire cannot abide.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 10 2018 17:46 utc | 104

The one and only thing I like about the Russian and Chinese systems is that, by forcing ever more rapid US overstretch, they may help bring down the US system as fast as possible. Of course I want no globalizing industrial system at all to replace it.
There’s literally nothing I like about KSA, the Zionist state, and most of all the US regime.

Posted by: Russ | Dec 10 2018 18:08 utc | 106

RE: Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 10, 2018 12:46:25 PM | 106
The reason they’re doing that is because the elites in China see it as a way of expanding their power. They need a strong middle class to become ‘the most powerful nation.’ They’re not doing it out of the goodness of their own hearts. They’re doing it because they’re power hungry, like any other politician.
It’s the same reason why Western nations are importing immigrants. Look at the demographics in Africa and Eastern Europe, and you’ll find that the most highly educated people are leaving to join the West – there’s a massive ‘brain drain’ problem in those countries. Western oligarchs want as many highly educated people in their country, without consideration for people who want simple lives and family. And whilst other countries will get to do the hard labor, the West is coasting through the ‘information age’ as we try to maintain our economic dominance in the world. All the while companies like Monsanto and in Silicon Valley use that – now effectively stolen – human resource of brain power to continue to financially enslave the third world by making them dependent on their patented foods and tech products, etc.
Yeah, sure, there’s also the problem that people in the West aren’t reproducing fast enough, so you need to import some poor people from those countries as well to make up for that. But that’s just a side effect to the Western education bullshit and marketing schemes that push false narratives of consumerism and feminism on society so that the elites can effectively harvest the female brain power and labor for the same purpose and enable what is sold as ‘more purchasing power’ (by having women work) which grows the wealth of the elites as well. And rather than allow people to find happiness in family and community and such for free, everyone is taught to find joy in movies and phones – products to be sold.
Note that I’m not objecting to the notion of China (and India) taking their rightful place in society. I’m just pointing out that there’s not an ounce of goodness in the motivations of their politicians & oligarchs, just like our own politicians & oligarchs. I’m also not objecting to empowering women, but look at how many end up getting in porn and stuff. It’s all a huge scheme as far as I’m concerned. Dutiful servants and political masters: the trumpet is patriarchy – it’s old and fixed, where women work in the open yet live in a trap.

Posted by: flayer | Dec 10 2018 18:09 utc | 108

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 10, 2018 12:46:25 PM | 106
There’s absolutely no way any unplanned economy like that of the Outlaw US Empire or EU could have attained similar accomplishments.
I see no accomplishments except necropolitan ones. At any rate, how do you figure the US system isn’t a planned economy?
Suburbia? The dominion of the car? The interstate highway system? Industrial agriculture? The military-industrial complex? Just to name some obvious ones which never could have existed other than from top-down planning and massive subsidy.
Fact is, no corporate sector is remotely economically viable other than as part of the planned economy based on corporate welfare, intellectual property, and other planned subsidies. Planned-economy China agrees 100%, of course, thus its obscene subsidies to entice Apple to build factories there, to give just one example.
PRC’s leaders are also very aware of their nation’s ecological problems and how they interact with their future plans.
Yes, as much as possible they export them to Africa and Latin America.
(Even beyond ecological destruction, China’s rapacious land-grabbing in Africa is one of the pure evils of our time. Same, of course, with the other land-grabber countries like KSA, Sweden, etc. But that’s my point – all are evil, and there’s nothing “good” to choose. And they all agree that Africans aren’t human at all.)

Posted by: Russ | Dec 10 2018 18:19 utc | 110

Right now to enforce balance aside from containing Israel’s power and KSAs 100% I believe in over-compensating China and Russia, and Iran, because Zionist U.S. together with its EU and Canadian, Aussie lackeys have abused power so flagrantly, therefore a major counterweight is required to bring these outlaws to heel.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 10 2018 18:22 utc | 112

@TheBAG | Dec 9, 2018 1:22:21 PM | 14
Thanks for comparing the U.S. to the late Roman Empire.
Unfortunately, the US Empire has a lot of life left. The elites will not go gently into the night. They will rage against the dying of their power. And they still have tremendous power.
If by “tremendous power” you mean an ability to destroy the world, I agree. However, in destroying the world the US elites would be destroying themselves; I doubt they would do it. So total destruction is not really in their power.
(Some of them probably think they can survive in bunkers, but they are dreaming.)
It is popular to compare the US to the late Western Roman Empire just prior to the sacks of Rome by the Visigoths in the early fifth century. I think this is wishful thinking by those wanting to see an end to the US Empire.
If by the US Empire, you mean global preeminence, that is almost certainly on the wane. And some may argue that it is gone already.
The U.S. could not prevent some influential countries (most of Europe, plus Canada) from joining China’s AIIB. The new bank is quite small in global terms, at least initially, but the point is that the U.S. could not force the countries to stay away, though it tried to do so. That is already an important loss of authority.
Another sign is that the Nordstream 2 pipeline is almost done. The U.S. has exerted every effort to prevent it, to no avail. And that is another sign of decline.
A third sign is that the U.S. is resorting to gangster tactics, like holding hostage the CFO of Huawei, Meng Wanzhou. If the Empire were truly dominant, it would not have to use such petty, desperate tactics (petty on the international scale).
If you mean that the U.S. will continue to be very powerful for decades to come, I agree. Global dominance, however, will be out of reach.

Posted by: Cyril | Dec 10 2018 18:45 utc | 114

@ flayer,
after reading all your posts, i can agree with some of your commentary, but not all of it.. if i understand you correctly, neo liberalism is a big part of the problem.. oligarchs is a word mostly used towards russia and china, but never mentioned in relation to western corporations.. maybe you are using the term for these corporations as well? otherwise it sounds like western propaganda.. the link to north korea interview is probably garbage..the idea that KJU is a neoliberal – he would probably be happy to be this, so he could rule over the serfs indefinitely.. either way, it seems like you have a problem with neoliberalism.. neoliberalism is eating away the planet as i see it.. i don’t know how this flips around, but i too would like to see a as you say, a world “with consideration for people who want simple lives and family.” we now have the opposite.. everyone is in a mad rush to fit into an ever faster racing madness to keep up – a lot of it financial pressure and fear of falling behind economically… we can thank this same neoliberal agenda for this..
i continue to believe private finance is at the root of much of the worlds problem… as @106 karlof1 mentions -the game of monopoly played out on the planet… i do believe that china and russia are not radically different from the usa and west, and that if given the chance they would happily like to control the planet.. i think we are better off in a multi polar world.. well, i think that is where we are headed, if we survive… what happens after that, i am not so sure about… i don’t hold some special illusion on the idea that china or russia would be so much better then the west… however, i do believe there are characteristics from china and russia that could be beneficial for the planet, especially if we could get beyond neo-liberalism – consumerism and this mad race after money that is killing the planet..

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2018 18:45 utc | 116

karlof1 says:
IMO, what PRC’s leaders and their followers have accomplished is amazing
yeah, between 2011 and 2013 they poured more cement than the US did in the entire 20th century!
sounds kinda ominous, no?

Posted by: john | Dec 10 2018 18:59 utc | 118

@121 flayer… thanks for your additional comments! the reason i focus on the word ‘oligarch’ and what it means to you, is it is mostly used to demonize russia only! if someone wants to start using the word to describe western corporations, i am fine with that.. it just isn’t in the mainstream as i see it, yet and is mostly a word trigger to stir up hostility towards russia.. hope that lessens your confusion..

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2018 19:25 utc | 120

@112
Hi Russ, I’m intrigued by your mention of Sweden as a land-grabber–what lands are they trying to seize?

Posted by: Ash | Dec 10 2018 19:47 utc | 122

S @ 87 -does China itself count as a nation violently regime changed by China during the prior 50 years?
Of course it does. We are looking through different lenses. Yours appears to be a fostered hatred of the US/West and a romanticisation of those nations you perceive to be adversarial.
In fact, I’m sure you hate the US more than the Chinese elites and ruling CCP do. By far. Ditto Russian elites and their ruling class interests. The Chinese elites were well-served by Nixon’s and Kissinger’s post-cultural revolution overtures. The subsequent opening to the West’s markets has been one of the smashing success stories of global capitalism. So I hear, anyway.
I’ll be interested in seeing whose reporting will succeed in changing your mind when the Chinese and/or Russian states become “more evil” than the US.
Which wasn’t my argument by the way. Mine was on the so-called “false equivalency”, remember? But here is the difference. You are comparing nations. I’m comparing ruling classes and the wealthiest .001% who rule the world as well as the respective countries from a political standpoint. I see nothing false in my equivalency. Sorry.

Posted by: donkeytale | Dec 10 2018 20:04 utc | 124

donkeytale
Western elites respond to the imperatives of the AZ Empire, not the people.
That’s why your equivalence fails.
Western commoners are sick of the games the Western elites play. As well as donkeys that carry water for the Empire.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2018 20:46 utc | 126

When violence is unleashed, freedom ends
In his first public comments in more than a week, French President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday that his administration will show “no mercy” towards “Yellow Vest” protesters who have committed violence over the last four weeks of demonstrations across the country.
macron must teach these antisemites a lesson before this spreads all over europe macron would be well guided to talk to tony blair and gordon brown ask how they took the ideas of thatcher and transformed the uk forever. with help from other nations france can build a better future for africa and the world. the un meeting in morrocco on the 18th of dec is vital for the stability of europe managed immigration during the next 30 years with increased vaccination of the elderly insitu country will hell with this transformation.
winter vaccines for the old and importation of young men of fighting age is a vital part of this project.

Posted by: maurice | Dec 10 2018 21:11 utc | 128

@ Flayer 94
<>
I would suspect they are doing it to protect their investments from the gangsters nearby.

Posted by: arby | Dec 10 2018 23:01 utc | 130

re # BM | Dec 10, 2018 11:52:56 AM | 96
Drongos who imagine the actions of PRC in Aotearoa story is either elite propaganda or ‘smalltown irrelevance’ only serve to reveal their paucity of thought combined with closed minded reliance on some regimes being ‘good’.
If they bothered to spend 5 minutes actually investigating reports on this woeful act, they would see the MSM (drongos favourite term) is seeking to play down these revelations ‘there is nothing going on here’ usually reserved for their own actions. There are a few reasons for this chiefly that the revelations cause embarassment for the small band of elites and their enablers in Aotearoa & Australia. Particularly Australia where some truly wealthy and powerful players (BHP Billiton & Gina Rinehart come to mind) have been making billions selling Oz resources to China. They do not want to upset that and believe that nothing is good about bringing down the conservative politicians who allowed China’s spies to try to corrupt the political system. “Frankly no one cares” they believe – well no one who is anyone, as englanders and amerikans have been screwing the political structures for nearly a century anyway. Witness the dismissal of Whitlam’s elected government after it tried to prevent takeover of Oz resources by amerika.
That is why kiwis totally reformed their political structure in the early 90’s introducing proportional representation and state funding of election campaigns prohibiting large private political donations thereby opening the system up to much more than the usual duopoly seen in amerika, england and still in Oz (altho Oz senate which is proportional is now chocka with ‘independents’).
China ignored the law and snuck hundreds of thousands of dollars to conservative pols in many secret $15000 increments ($15000 being the largest allowable donation – but it must be declared – it wasn’t)
Jen linked to an ABC (Oz) article which played the Jian Yang spy story down.
This Chinese agent had been working at ANU prior to moving to NZ (unusual of itself the flow is normally the other way among migrants to Australasia).
Australia National University (ANU) is located in Canberra, one of its many sidelines is Duntroon Military College which is the uni for Oz army, navy and airforce officers, and it is also the tertiary institution which trains ASIO (internal/domestic spies) and ASIS (external working outta embassies outside Oz spies).
from the ABC article:

“During September and November 1994 I worked as an intern in Senate Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, the Australian Parliament,” Mr Yang wrote in his New Zealand residency application in 1998.”

The ABC long penetrated by inteligence agencies as are most state owned TV & radio services about the world, played down the stuff about Jian Yang’s actions in Australia because they didn’t want the embarassment which the conservative pols had faced in Aotearoa.
This is all standard intelligence play – always deceive never admit errors or screw ups and always, always, do as the elite commands. They don’t want China upset cos it could lose them money, then don’t upset China.
Honestly I worry about the mirror image of the other side some commenters present here.
Many posts reveal a human incapable of critical thinking who churns out the same cliches but opposite of the 0.001% who control the planet. I really like the weak rationalisation BM made about what happened doesn’t matter because it is ‘smalltown’, a typical plodding thought of a human unable to understand that resistance always begins at the outer fringes, amerika will never confront its own villains as the citizens are weak indoctrinated cyphers who would rather get fat and kill each other than take on the enemy. Change won’t occur in amerika until the rest of the world has done the heavy lifting.
BM writes much such stuff, typical of a former hack academic too used to filling kids heads up with easily digestable pap, sometimes it may make you feel good to read it as he is reasonably articulate, but you always hear a voice at the back of yer mind saying “I’ve heard this before” Nothing original which is just as the crooks like it; as long as any opposition sticks to the usual cliches all is well because most people have been indoctrinated to reject such obvious thoughts. How does it feel to be such a willing tool of the elite BM?

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 10 2018 23:12 utc | 132

: Cyril | Dec 10, 2018 6:03:46 PM | 133
You really aren’t capable of thought either are you ‘cyril’? Fire away with your petty racism about haka dancers, your reaction tells us much more about your small minded prejudice than anything about China’s malfeasance.
Not possessing ESP I cannot answer your query about why accurately, but I do have a couple of speculations Firstly Aotearoa is a founder member of 5 eyes In the past kiwi intelligence has been tasked with some dodgy stuff in places other members cannot access. Something to do with official longstanding opposition to some of the elite’s foulest acts in the ME and Asia has given aotearoa (IMO) undeserved credibility.
NZ parliament oversees 5 eyes. Secondly this is a counter to oblamblam’s effort to ‘pivot to the pacific’ H clinton selected fiji, an even smaller military dictatorship to kick that off.
Many kiwis object when this stuff happens, they lean on the few remaining old school pols who support 5 eyes to persuade em not to do that stuff, now China has really screwed up, they annoyed the previously supportive lefty pols so much with China’s tory arse kissing that the new government has allowed the security dropkicks from Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) to block the proposed Huawei rollout of 5g which had been slated to begin early next year.
Fool – one side good – other side bad prolly never experienced the real world in all its chaotic glory.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 10 2018 23:28 utc | 134

“A good test of an allegedly civilized society is how it treats its lowest status residents.”
Posted by: Trailer Trash | Dec 10, 2018 3:26:34 PM | 127
Very true, and you go on to raise a number of important questions regarding China. While I don’t profess to be able answer them, I duckduckgoed (or is it duckduckwent?) the question How many sweatshop workers are there in China? and the first page to pop up was this interesting item from waronwant.org (not an outfit I’m familiar with), which makes some notable claims. For starters:
“Despite the rapid growth of the Chinese economy in the last decade, more than 482 million people in China – 36% of the population – live on less than $2 a day.” https://waronwant.org/sweatshops-china
Presumably somewhere, somehow, there’s someone living on less than $2 a day for whom “life is good,” but I’m guessing the planet isn’t positively lousy with such people. Anyway, if I ever meet one he can expect no handout from me! It might drive him into a higher tax bracket and impair his bliss.

Posted by: drj | Dec 10 2018 23:41 utc | 136

IMO, what happened to Maria Buttina is disgusting and tantamount to what was done to Japanese Americans when they were put in internment camps. Right now there’s a lot of Russophobia happening and every Russian looks like kgb! The only thing that I dislike about Buttina is her gun-totting association with the NRA. It was inhumane to put her in solitary confinement in a small cell for so long. Then Americans condemn NK and Iran when they catch U.S. spies trying to stir trouble in their countries! Double standard much? Just release her already! Bozo American justice.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 10 2018 23:52 utc | 138

“After a second full day of hearings, there is no decision on whether the embattled chief financial officer of Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei will be granted bail. The hearing is scheduled to resume Tuesday.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/huaweo-meng-wanzhou-vancouver-bail-hearing-1.4939320

Posted by: james | Dec 11 2018 0:41 utc | 140

On 5 Jan 2018, The Economist, a publication certainly not friendly of the PRC or its government, published this article reviewing “China’s plan to eliminate poverty by 2020” on its road to creating a moderately prosperous society by 2021, establishing Made in China by 2025, then culminating in 2035 with China becoming a Modern Socialist Country. Pepe Escobar provided this overview in 2017.
China’s very aggressively trying to eliminate poverty, while the USA is going in reverse as poverty grows, the government slashes supporting programs and has zero plan to try and eliminate it, and in many states and localities it criminalizes those unlucky enough to be out on the street and even prevent others from trying to help. How’s that for Exceptional!?

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 11 2018 1:12 utc | 142

There has been news that a house in Vancouver belonging to Sabrina Meng’s husband was broken into at about 5:30 am on Sunday, 9 December 2018. The intruders fled when accosted by someone living there.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/americas/vancouver-police-investigate-break-in-at-family-home-of-huawei-executive-meng-wanzhou

Posted by: Jen | Dec 11 2018 1:19 utc | 144

Debsisdead, reading through your post @ 134, this chinese agent could just as easily be working for five eyes. Going by his resume, he may well be.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 11 2018 1:38 utc | 146

@129 ex-SA
Thank you for the amazing Andre Vltchek essay on China.
Vltchek is a human of the world, a traveler and observer. His view of China and his facts about the world’s view of China, together with China’s actions in the world, stand all of a piece, coherent and true.
Vltchek points up the inherent racism and arrogance of the western culture, and I see now that it’s true. He is completely correct to say that this western arrogance would destroy the entire world. It would terminate all life on Earth and

“The final holocaust would be accompanied by self-righteous speeches, unrestrained arrogance, gasping ignorance of the state of the world, and generally no regrets.”

This western view has always treated the Chinese as less than dogs, massacred them in their masses and exploited them in every way possible.
And China, says Vltchek, is the oldest and largest nation on Earth that simply wants to see all its neighbors prosper and be healthy, because this is the way in which it can itself live in peace and at ease, conducting exchange of all kind with its neighbors. But this claim about China will meet with utter denial from that western racist arrogance – because, as Vltcheck writes,

“The West tries to smear everything that is pure and it repeats that “everyone in this world is essentially the same” (a thief).”

But too bad, because Vltcheck makes his case too well, to any mind open to learning the reality of the Chinese presence in this world. Everything he writes in this one essay is congruent with everything else I have read that also makes sense and rings true and accords with facts that can be verified.
We are caught in the western mind, and caught in centuries of racist arrogance. And even for us right here in this forum, our discussion in this very thread offers a glimpse into the ways in which we are caught, if we wish to examine them in the context of other views of China, including the Chinese view, but views all taken from a place outside of the west, safely removed from this mad, killer mind.
And I think it is a killer mind, that reached one of its peaks in the colonized Americas. D.H. Lawrence once said of the US mind, ““The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
And Vltcheck says almost in passing that

“Western bigotry, brutality and imperialism are much older than capitalism. I believe that the things are precisely the opposite: Western violent culture is the core of the savage capitalism.”

There’s simply too much truth in what Vltcheck sees and writes here about the west, even to try to deny it. And I am of the west, and I have felt proud of its character as I once saw it, but this is now greatly overshadowed by its evils, and Vltcheck offers a good view of how all this may be.
So perhaps in fact, China and its mystery is really ourselves and our mystery. Judge for yourself (and please don’t bother judging me):
West is Spreading Sick, Racist Anti-Chinese Nihilism

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 11 2018 2:04 utc | 148

Macron has made a few concessions. Minimum wage, taxation and he even mentioned immigration. Will that be enough? We shall see.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46513189

Posted by: dh | Dec 11 2018 2:08 utc | 150

@ Grieved who quoted Vltcheck as saying”…Western violent culture is the core of the savage capitalism.”
I have an anthropological theory that says we are on the edge of evolution/or not of our species. I think that the genes that fueled and continue to fuel that Neanderthal Might-Makes-Right/feudal/faith based meme remain in some of us, probably more in the West….grin!
Will humanity get beyond this impasse? I hope so but agree with others that most in the West are zombies yet and easily led to their own extinction……sigh
I keep hoping for aliens.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2018 2:33 utc | 152

john helmer article, written by christopher black on the arrest of meng wanzhou… link here..

Posted by: james | Dec 11 2018 2:44 utc | 154

So Maria Butina (I misspelled her name previously, and gun-toting, one t for both!) is cooperating with Washington prosecutors. Of course, after being locked up for so long in solitary, which amounts to psychological torture, she will say anything to be set free. Apparently Russian spies never cooperate, so then she’s not a Russian spy.
The investigation of Butina was initiated by the FBI, which begs the question: Why would Mueller not even handle her case and let the D.C. State Attorney handle it, when she’s Russian and was trying to improve U.S. perceptions of Russia and she had contact with Trump’s son and got access to Trump when she questioned him at a political event on sanctions? So why was Mueller not interested in handling her case? Is it because he sensed there was nothing substantial there? So then why torture her psychologically? None of this makes sense.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 11 2018 3:19 utc | 156

@158 circe.. i have been saying this for a few days… gulag usa is not a place that has any respect for the welfare of it’s own people, let alone foreigners.. that they put her in solitary confinement says more about the usa system that anything i can think of..

Posted by: james | Dec 11 2018 3:24 utc | 158

@dh… i like the glass half full overview, lol…

Posted by: james | Dec 11 2018 3:34 utc | 160

: drj 137
I’ve seen that one trotted out many time before, to show how pathetic the Chinese are.
First off, a friendly advice.
When you grab something from the web, ask yourself , is it verifiable. ?
There’s a jungle out there/
Even if its true, fact remains, Chinese are making huge progress and they seem to be contented.
But Here’s the point,
poverty is not a crime, greed is not a virtue.
The Chinese make a honest living thru blood , sweat and tear.
fukus make its fortune also thru blood, sweat and tear ….of those vanquised people.
The Chinese ares still poor, but they have nothing to be ashamed about

Posted by: denk | Dec 11 2018 4:20 utc | 162

russ 112
*Even beyond ecological destruction, China’s rapacious land-grabbing in Africa is one of the pure evils of our time. *
Citation please.

Posted by: denk | Dec 11 2018 4:31 utc | 164

*I don’t like everything about China, I don’t like everything about Russia; I don’t like everything about the EU, I despise everything about Saudi Arabia and Israel and I despise 60% of what the U.S*
wow,
Yet another ‘China is far worse than us’ progressive
Now I’ve seen it all/
heheheh

Posted by: denk | Dec 11 2018 4:45 utc | 166

flayer@155
I was born under the US occupation of Hawaii in 1948.
As for China’s claim on the South China Sea – See the San Francisco Peace Treaty:
“Japan occupied the Paracel and Spratly Islands in 1939 and annexed both islands into the administrative jurisdiction of Taiwan. After World War II, the troops of the Republic of China were responsible for receiving both of the islands upon the surrender of the Japanese army. On April 28, 1952, the San Francisco Peace Treaty came into force and the Sino-Japanese Peace Treaty was signed, with both treaties stipulating that Japan renounce the right, title and claim to the Paracel and Spratly Islands. According to the principle of uti possidetis and occupation, the Republic of China has had the priority right of occupation to hold the right of sovereignty to both islands since that critical date.”
Issues & Studies© 50, no. 3 (September 2014): 169-196.
See also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Francisco

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 11 2018 4:51 utc | 168

For those like me watching China for information about the opening up of their financial sector there is this posting from Xinhuanet
Economic Watch: China accelerates opening-up in financial sector
The take away quote from Yi Gang, governor of the People’s Bank of China, the country’s central bank, who wrote in a signed article last week:
”
The central bank will develop the financial market, push forward financial reform and expand opening-up under the premise of maintaining financial system stability, ensuring continuous financial services and forestalling systemic financial risks, Yi said.
”
The posting also says that USB has bought controlling interest in a bank and
”
In May, U.S. financial giant J.P. Morgan also submitted an application to the China Securities Regulatory Commission (CSRC) seeking to set up a new, fully-integrated securities firm, in which it would hold a 51-percent stake and expect to raise its ownership to 100 percent over the next few years.
”
I read the statement by Li that China is consciously taking on private finance and will assume Reserve Currency status when all the ducks are in a row.
All that said, how does the taking hostage of Meng not threaten that evolution? Or is it all kabuki while the decisions have already been made behind the scenes?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2018 5:39 utc | 170

RE: Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 10, 2018 11:51:21 PM | 170
Yeah… Last I checked San Fransisco was over 7000 miles away from the Spratly Islands. Did the United States (or Japan) really have the right to give away islands that arguably belong to the Philippines, for example? Vietnam also lays claims to some of these islets. I think this is a matter that should be resolved between the peoples who live in nations neighboring the South China Sea, not some treaty by a force that occupied those grounds before and/or after World War 2.
Unfortunately, China is having none of that and simply started building and warding of the people from neighboring nations who used them in their fishing adventures. I think it’s a matter of concern – although the United States has no business being there at all, obviously.

Posted by: flayer | Dec 11 2018 6:13 utc | 172

“drj… I’ve seen that one trotted out many time before, to show how pathetic the Chinese are.”
Posted by: denk | Dec 10, 2018 11:20:52 PM | 164
It was no part of my intention “to show how pathetic the Chinese are,” something I don’t believe or wish to be associated with in any way. Apparently I needed to issue a snark alert in giant luminous letters, but alas, too late. My intention — quite literally and snarklessly this time — was to suggest that for people living on less than $2 a day, whether in China or elsewhere, life isn’t good; and that’s true of an enormous number of Chinese IF the figures provided by the charity waronwant.org are correct.
As to your “friendly advice” not to trust every source on the Web indiscriminately, i.e., condescension, thank you, but I’m well aware of it, hence my explicit disclaimer that waronwant.org is “not an outfit I’m familiar with.” FWIW: a quick Web search suggests the principal charge against them is they favor boycotting Israel — not exactly the stuff of which Western chauvinism towards China is usually made, is it? On the other hand, if you have evidence that waronwant.org’s figures on poverty in China are wrong, let alone deliberate and tendentious Sinophobic slurs, as you appear to suggest they are, then by all means let’s see it. No a priori demography, please. That said, I agree with the rest of your post.

Posted by: drj | Dec 11 2018 7:17 utc | 174

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 10, 2018 9:33:48 PM | 154
Neanderthal Might-Makes-Right/feudal/faith based meme…
That’s one of the productionist civilization’s great lies. Self-evidently, if Neanderthals and their ancestors had anything but a very strongly communal and cooperative nature (including “in their genes”, to use that vaporous, pseudo-scientific meme), they never could have survived at all.
On the contrary, anyone who knows any history knows that civilization itself always has been the great driver of violence, enslavement, and individual selfishness, and the modern economic civilization most of all. Civilization depends completely on mass violence and ecological destruction, and the modern civilization most of all.

Posted by: Russ | Dec 11 2018 9:17 utc | 176

Russ @ 177
Clearly put Russ thank you. This is the hidden main agenda of the west. Much bigger than oil !
Months ago Daniel @ ? Linked to a brilliant lecture on you tube, it had a profound effect on me ! No doubt you may have seen it. But still worth re linking— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfnruW7yERA
To refresh our memory, pass on an important awareness to a wider audience! Hope you agree ? To every one else ‘a must watch film!’

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 11 2018 10:24 utc | 178

Thanks Mark2
I went and found my favorite land-grab map, from the FAO. This one’s several years old. At this point the KSA was stealing the most land. That’s probably the same today.
Note how China, the UK, Germany, Sweden and others are especially ardent to seize Africa in order to produce biofuels, one of the ultimate human and ecological scourges.
https://thisisafrica.me/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/05/21st-Century-African-land-rush.jpg

Posted by: Russ | Dec 11 2018 12:11 utc | 180

Ross @ 183 yes and also Russia
from Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
‘Levin saw that there was an idea underlying this question with which he did not agree. But he went on explaining his own idea that the Russian laborer has a quite special view of the land, different from that of other people; and to support this proposition he made haste to add that in his opinion this attitude of the Russian peasant was due to the consciousness of his vocation to people vast unoccupied expanses of land.’
‘In what the point of his theory lay, Levin did not understand, because he did not take the trouble to understand. He saw that Metrov, like other people, in spite of his own article, in which he had attacked the current theory of political economy, looked at the position of the Russian peasant simply from the point of view of capital, wages, and rent.’
————
I don’t think the US military would have the same affection for Syria. Their mission leads more to the increased levels of PSTD that we are seeing.
‏
@southfronteng
“Russians Fought As If Their Own Country Is At Stake”: Former SAA Soldier Gives Interview About His Experience In War

Posted by: financial matters | Dec 11 2018 13:49 utc | 182

RE: Posted by: Ross | Dec 11, 2018 7:38:10 AM | 183
>The comments from flayer, pft et al are of a pattern. They are the view of a contemporary western liberal mindset, shaped by (at best) ill-informed and prejudiced media coverage and projected through the individual’s own prism of prejudice and educative indoctrination.
>The Chinese mindset is entirely different, they see the world differently from us in the west. Anyone who attempts to superimpose the western model on such a sophisticated and ancient society is guilty of not just hubris but imperialistic arrogance.
I am not going to hold any single country or ethnicity on a pedestal in the way that you seem to do in those comments. The Chinese are just people like anyone else. There’s absolutely nothing special about them. There is greed and murderous rage amongst them like there is amongst any people. There is kindness and compassion amongst them like there is amongst any people. Your statements regarding my attitude appear to based on some kind of delusion in your perceptions about me. You are doing nothing but insulting me and claiming it as an argument.
>The Chinese know who they are, they know where they’ve come from, and they are moving forward (successfully) fully within that context. The idea that descendants of the the well-armed pirates that inflicted a ‘Century of Humiliation’ on them should lecture them on ‘human rights’ is, frankly, laughable.
I am not “lecturing them” on anything. I’m saying that the local people in the region should be discussing and resolving the matter of these claims (which clearly contradict one another) amongst themselves. There is nothing unreasonable or “just hubris” and “imperial arrogance” about that notion.

Posted by: flayer | Dec 11 2018 14:18 utc | 184

Posted by: Ross | Dec 11, 2018 7:38:10 AM | 183
The comments from flayer, pft et al are of a pattern. They are the view of a contemporary western liberal mindset, shaped by (at best) ill-informed and prejudiced media coverage and projected through the individual’s own prism of prejudice and educative indoctrination.
I see. So China is not raping Africa. (I.e., is not a classically rapacious imperialist.) And it doesn’t have a heavily industrialized fossil-based economy. And it didn’t build the Three Gorges Dam at incalculable human and ecological cost. And it doesn’t have those rare earth mines gouging vast landscapes. (Lots of coal strip mines too.) And it hasn’t imposed industrial agriculture, then tethered its whole food supply to Western-dominated globalization, thereby intentionally destroying all food security for its people, same as every Western country has done.
I just think I learned all that from “prejudiced media coverage”. And to think I thought I learned it, not from the media at all, but from many years of reading books, analytical papers, etc., all put out by enemies of globalization.
On the contrary, you obviously don’t oppose any crime at all, as long as “your guy” does it. You support globalization. On this thread I’m reminded more and more of Democrats and Republicans accusing each other of dastardly deeds and crimes even though the actions are exactly the same on both sides.

Posted by: Russ | Dec 11 2018 15:01 utc | 186

Guerrero@50 The Acapulco I remember featured those wonderful pink jeeps from the Las Brisas resort. Yet Guerrero, and the rest of the country for that matter, was always a dangerous place. I have to say that the Mexican style of violence is unrivaled anywhere. Yet it’s refreshing from the perspective that the virulent malignancy that powers the cashflow in Mexico is even too toxic for foreign meddling. I wish them luck.

In USA-English usage the term “I wish you luck” is commonly employed
when firing someone, or otherwise dismissing a person with prejudice.
One is respectful of foregners who know not what they saith, still, with that attitude,
perhaps it were better to stay away from Guerrero altogether, just to be perfectly safe.

The Mexican style of violence is uneivaled anywhere

You saw this in a movie in your Acapulco Hotel room? Did you drive
around the tourist spots in a pink jeep when you visited Guerrero?
Guerrero is famous for violence. Yes, The Mexican War for Independence was
won in Guerrero because the men who started it were from Guerrero:
preeminent in this pantheon of heroes is Vicente Guerrero.
A century later, Guerrero was the strategic depth of the Zapata brothers
in the Mexican Revolution of 1910-1917; is that the violence you mean?
(Fue cuando el campesino Emiliano Zapata alentó a sus compañeros
con esta frase: — ¡Esos que no tengan miedo, que pasen a firmar!)
Long ago, I lived in the Barrio of San Pedro in Tepoztlan, Morelos; yes, i concur
the Guerrerenses had a reputation for being refugees from a homicide one committed.
But the old violence was always inter-personal; it was about a woman often or about land,
or about an old offense to a family member, or of revenge, often enough the homicide
was occasioned by one wrong-word by one’s one own best-friend, both drunk in the pre-dawn.
That is the way the people here are. Otherwise Guerrero people are correct and polite,
especially to guests, yet also to everyone. Nobody wants to ever give an offense so
Guerrerense in actual practice are peaceful people; perhaps even more peaceful than you?¿
All this head-chopping and torturing started in 2007; it partakes of *nothing* of the people of this region. The victims and the killers are not the ones who would otherwise have killed a rival. Not at all. The locals curtailed their backwards habits; no countryman with a wild streak, wants to be confused with a narco hit-man.
Previously, the violence was between members of the society. Since 2007, it is coming
from behind a curtain and dead-bodies are often unknown-to-anybody, or marginal persons.
This crime wave did NOT spring out of the soul of the people, or exude from their
previous bad habits. No. These are undoubtedly operation-phoenix-style operations.
This violence is coming from outside the society. So learn something: don’t believe
what you are told by the major media. And don’t bother to guess and speculate and divine
if you know nothing more than the version of México portrayed in Fast and Furious IV,
the promulgation of a gringo narrative: a psychological/racial condemnation of Mexicans.

Posted by: Guerrero | Dec 11 2018 16:23 utc | 188

Must see before/after how BBC edit their latest article on Integrity Initiative!
https://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/1712325/diff/0/1

Posted by: Zanon | Dec 11 2018 17:11 utc | 190

yikes,
that spam filter !

Posted by: denk | Dec 11 2018 17:33 utc | 192

“in the same way that the Chinese State, its elite, and their oligarchic lackeys (eg. “the police”) are treating some of its subcultures”
I actually agree with you on this matter. Perhaps you could have brought up the conquest of Tibet?
I would also agree that China is using the territorial waters of these South China Seas to expand their control even further. On the flip side US and other NATO warships entering the waters covered in the San Francisco Treaty without approval should be sunk as they are illegal invaders.
You should also have pointed out that America is the most colonial (and Neo-Colonial) power in World History. America has been at war for 93% of its history and has killed some 20-30 million people in just the last 50 years to maintain its Empire. See also the neo-Colonial concept of the Angola Variant.

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 11 2018 18:02 utc | 194

I did bring up Tibet in comment #155:
>I think you can also make an argument that “China” as it exists today, is the result of historical imperialism – the country has taken several chunks of Mongolia, keeps Tibet as a province, even the Uighurs have some claims to autonomy, etc.
(although come to think of it, the Uighurs and the former bits of Mongolia that are now part of China may be referring to the same region)
But why should I point out that the United States is colonial when we are discussing China? I can’t possibly bring up the context of every single imperialist nation in the world at any point in history – I’d be making comments hundreds of pages long. Even just talking about all the colonial and imperialist things the US did would likely exceed character limits. There is no benefit to this, it makes no sense.
Should people, when the United States is criticized, constantly bring up the actions – past and present – of other nations?
Your call for sinking the ships of other nations who venture into disputed waters is just crazy. The United States would immediately and without hesitation use it a pretext for war. Even moreso, they’d likely have the full backing of most of the world’s other governments. That’s a dangerous suggestion you’re making there.

Posted by: flayer | Dec 11 2018 18:27 utc | 196

“But why should I point out that the United States is colonial when we are discussing China?”
Why?
1/ Because you are probably American and thus a part of the imperialist polis.
2/ Because while you neither read nor speak Chinese, and are thus effectively deaf and mute in China, you clearly write and speak English and can thus address your concerns about imperialism directly to its organisers.
3/ Because you have never worked or lived among the Chinese and therefore know nothing of what they believe about their government-which means that you rely entirely on English media to form your opinions on China.
4/ Because you appear to be unaware-“The United States would immediately and without hesitation use it a pretext for war”- that the US government never attacks countries able to defend themselves, except by sponsoring terrorists as among the Uighurs. And that war has been going on for years.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 11 2018 18:53 utc | 198

dink 193
Believe me, you couldn’t possibly hate the US government, economic system, ecological despoliation, media, culture, scientific establishment, educational system, and partisan electorate anywhere near as much as I. No one could. I’ve spent (what seems like) a long life hating it. (Having to live amid the worst of it, seeing it every day.) I hope to live to see not just the empire but the whole US system destroyed.
But the very reasons I hate those are the same things I hate everywhere else in the globalized economic civilization. I made just part of the case against China, the ecological and anti-imperial case, and of course you have no response. How is that stupid link you posted any different from pro-US propaganda.
Same thing as if I say Democrats and Republicans are the same, do the same things, and are equally evil, and all you can say in response is “no the democrats are good just the republicans are evil!!!!!” Or vice versa, to your taste.

Posted by: Russ | Dec 11 2018 19:22 utc | 200