Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 21, 2018
Fallout Of Trump’s Syria Withdrawal – Why Erdogan Does Not Want To Invade

President Trump's strategic decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria creates some significant fallout. The U.S. and international borg is enraged that Trump ends an occupation that is illegal under international as well as U.S. domestic law. "That's un-American!"

Defense Secretary James "Mad Dog" Mattis resigned from his position effective February 28. He disagreed with the president's decision. It was the second time in five years that an elected commander in chief had a serious conflict with Mattis' hawkishness. President Obama fired him as Central Command chief for urging a more aggressive Iran policy. Mattis is also extremely hawkish towards Russia and China.

President Trump campaigned on lessening U.S. involvement in wars abroad. He wants to get reelected. He does not need a Secretary of Defense that involves him in more wars that have little to none defined purpose.

Mattis is an ingrained imperialist. He always asked for more money for the military and for more meddling abroad.  One of Mattis' little notice acts as Defense Secretary was a unannounced change in the mission of the Pentagon:

For at least two decades, the Department of Defense has explicitly defined its mission on its website as providing "the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country." But earlier this year, it quietly changed that statement, perhaps suggesting a more ominous approach to national security.

The Pentagon's official website now defines its mission this way: "The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide a lethal Joint Force to defend the security of our country and sustain American influence abroad."

The Pentagon no longer "deters war" but provides "lethal force" to "sustain American influence abroad." There was no public nor congressional debate about the change. I doubt that President Trump agreed to it. Trump will now try to recruit a defense secretary that is more aligned with his own position.

The White House also announced that 7,000 of the 14,000 soldier the U.S. has in Afghanistan will withdraw over the next few months. The war in Afghanistan is lost with the Taliban ruling over more than half of the country and the U.S. supported government forces losing more personal than they can recruit. It was Mattis who had urged Trump to increase the troop numbers in Afghanistan from 10,000 to 14,000 at the beginning of his term. There are also 8,000 NATO and allied troops in Afghanistan which will likely see a proportional withdrawal.

The Associated Press has a new tic toc of Trump's decision to withdraw from Syria:

Trump stunned his Cabinet, lawmakers and much of the world with the move by rejecting the advice of his top aides and agreeing to a withdrawal in a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan last week, two officials briefed on the matter said.

“The talking points were very firm,” said one of the officials, explaining that Trump was advised to clearly oppose a Turkish incursion into northern Syria and suggest the U.S. and Turkey work together to address security concerns. “Everybody said push back and try to offer (Turkey) something that’s a small win, possibly holding territory on the border, something like that.”

Erdogan, though, quickly put Trump on the defensive, reminding him that he had repeatedly said the only reason for U.S. troops to be in Syria was to defeat the Islamic State and that the group had been 99 percent defeated. “Why are you still there?” the second official said Erdogan asked Trump, telling him that the Turks could deal with the remaining IS militants.

Erdogan’s point, Bolton was forced to admit, had been backed up by Mattis, Pompeo, U.S. special envoy for Syria Jim Jeffrey and special envoy for the anti-ISIS coalition Brett McGurk, who have said that IS retains only 1 percent of its territory, the officials said.

Bolton stressed, however, that the entire national security team agreed that victory over IS had to be enduring, which means more than taking away its territory.

Trump was not dissuaded, according to the officials, who said the president quickly capitulated by pledging to withdraw, shocking both Bolton and Erdogan.

Trump did not "capitulate". He always wanted to pull the U.S. troops out of Syria. He said so many times. When he was finally given a chance to do so, he grabbed the opportunity. Erdogan though, was not ready for that:

Caught off guard, Erdogan cautioned Trump against a hasty withdrawal, according to one official. While Turkey has made incursions into Syria in the past, it does not have the necessary forces mobilized on the border to move in and hold the large swaths of northeastern Syria where U.S. troops are positioned, the official said.

The call ended with Trump repeating to Erdogan that the U.S. would pull out, but offering no specifics on how it would be done, the officials said.


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Erdogan had planned to only occupy a 10 miles deep strip along the Syrian-Turkish border. Some 15,000 Turkish controlled 'Syrian rebels' stand ready for that. He would need some 50-100,000 troops to occupy all of east Syria northward of the Euphrates. It would be a hostile occupation among well armed Kurds who would oppose it and an Arab population that is not exactly friendly towards a neo-Ottoman Turkey.

Erdogan knows this well. Today he announced to delay the planned invasion:

“We had decided last week to launch a military incursion… east of the Euphrates river,” he said in a speech in Istanbul. “Our phone call with President Trump, along with contacts between our diplomats and security officials and statements by the United States, have led us to wait a little longer.

“We have postponed our military operation against the east of the Euphrates river until we see on the ground the result of America’s decision to withdraw from Syria.”

The Turkish president said, however, that this was not an “open-ended waiting period”.

Any larger occupation of northeast Syria would create a serious mess for Turkey. Its army can do it, but it would cost a lot of casualties and financial resources. Turkey will hold local government election in March and Erdogan does not want any negative headlines. He will invade, but only if Syria and Russia fail to get the Kurds under control.

Unfortunately the leaders of the anarcho-marxist PKK/YPK in Syria have still not learned their lesson. They make the same demands to Damascus that were already rejected when similar demands were made for Afrin canton before Turkey invaded and destroyed it.

agitpapa @agitpapa 11:14 utc – 21 Dec 2018

YPG delegation was flown in to Mezzeh yday. Negos were inconclusive because they just repeated their usual line of "SAA protects the border, we control the rest." No army allows someone else allied with an enemy to control its rear and its supply lines. +

+ The YPG leadership is still stuck in its pro-Western rut. It needs to be purged before any deal can be made with Damascus. Their present track will just lead to another Afrin, then another, then another. Thousands of brave YPG/YPJ fighters will have died for nothing.

Elijah J. Magnier @ejmalrai – 16:31 utc – 21 Dec 2018

#Breakingnews: Private sources : President Bashar al Assad has rejected the Kurdish proposal while Turkey is gathering forces (Euphrates Shield et al) to attack the Kurdish controlled area north of #Syria. #Russia seems holding back president Erdogan for a while. A lot of pressure

It is not (only) Russia that is holding Erdogan back. As seen above he has serious concerns about such an operation. Moreover, he does not have enough troops yet and the U.S. troops have not yet changed their pattern. As of today they still patrolled on the Turkish border and yesterday new U.S. war material was still coming in from Iraq. Erdogan does not dare to attack U.S. troops.

He will most likely want to avoid any additional military involvement in Syria. If Damascus and Moscow can get the PKK under control, Ankara will be satisfied.

Besides the presence of 4,000 to 5,000 U.S. troops and contractors in northeast Syria there also a contingent of 1,100 French troops and an unknown number of British forces. France for now says it wants to stay to finish the fight against the Islamic State enclave along the Euphrates.

But France does not have the capability to sustain those forces without U.S. support. Syria and Russia could ask Macron to put them under their command to finish the fight against ISIS, but it is doubtful that President Macron would agree to that. It is more likely that he will agree to a handover of their position to Russian, Syrian or even Iraqi or Iranian forces. Those forces can then finish the fight.

Comments

b @97
Trump has gone with his instincts despite Bolton, Mattis, Pompeo and the rest of the endless war crowd that dominate all the media, think-tanks and political establishment. He defeated 17 Republican establishment candidates including a Bush who was a governor of a big state and the sure-thing Hillary, with just straight talking of the realities of the average American. He didn’t speak down to them like Hillary did instead he spoke to their angst. He won the election despite the billions spent against him and the entire media hyping every thing negative about him.
It’s taken him a while but his actions on ending US interventionism in the Middle East & Afghanistan while taking so much heat for it, is remarkable. Shows the guy has guts and is unafraid to take incoming fire! Compare that to the gutless establishment Republicans and Democrats like Rubio, Graham, Obama, Hillary.
Peter AU1 @99
Neither Russia, Turkey or Iran called check. Trump changed the ground rules altogether even stunning Israel and Saudi Barbaria. Not just the DC establishment. He’s showing that he can take significant heat at home!

Posted by: ab initio | Dec 23 2018 22:53 utc | 201

Psychohistorian, I am glad you made an exception for Russia and China, but indeed, isn’t there a problem with the prior description of Christianity, if (as I believe) your final analysis is correct?
Pardon me, but I think you have to adjust. All kinds of faith come under the Christian umbrella. The one I adhere to puts Russia in the win/win column.
Merry Christmas!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 24 2018 0:34 utc | 202

circe @155
Bolton’s Hawkish Syria Plan Backfired, Pushing Trump to Get Out
12-21-18
Yet in September, Bolton—known as one of Washington’s most hawkish foreign policy hands, especially towards Iran—effectively reshaped the war, with a new goal. “We’re not going to leave as long as Iranian troops are outside Iranian borders and that includes Iranian proxies and militias,” he told reporters during the United Nations General Assembly.
“Bolton and Jeffrey repeatedly said U.S. forces are in Syria to counter Iran, but the president never signed off on that mission.”
— Senior Administration Official
Some leading Pentagon officials were uncomfortable with Bolton’s anti-Iran goals in Syria. Days after Bolton’s statement, senior Pentagon officials signaled to Congress that they weren’t on board. “In Syria, our role is to defeat ISIS. That’s it,” Brig. Gen. Scott Benedict, an officer on the Joint Staff, testified to the House Armed Services Committee.
. . .
But other officials said the expanded, open-ended mission was provocative to the Turks, who saw confirmation of their suspicions that the U.S. was presiding over the de facto creation of a northeastern Syrian Kurdish mini-state on its border, a prospect it considered intolerable.
. . .
The Pentagon is still negotiating to keep U.S. air power in the fight over Syria, in support of British and French troops who Pentagon officials hope will backfill departing U.S. troops on the ground. “The decisions are still in process,” the official said.
WITH THIS IN MIND:
Greer’s Twilight’s Last Gleeming nightmare:
Why is the United States suddenly withdrawing from Syria?
When an air target is detected by a radar in Syria, the automatized system Polyana D4M1 posts information for all the detection radars and systems for guiding planes and Syrian and Russian anti-air artillery. Once identified, the air targets are automatically assigned to be struck down. This automatized system ensures that the oldest Syrian missiles of the Soviet era (S-200, S-75, S-125, etc.) become almost as precise as the S-300 missile.
. . .
The network also uses the Zhitel R-330ZH systems for interfering with NAVSTAR (GPS), the apparatus of navigation. This equips the means of attack (planes, helicopters, cruise missiles, guided bombs, etc.).
What is the consequence of Russia implementing the automatized management of the Syrian air space?
The US military air bases in Syria consist essentially of troops for special operations. By this we mean a light infantry, without any armor or support. They could not therefore ward off any land attack carried out by the Syrian army supported by the Air Force. Having understood that the US Air Force will not be able to pass the Syrian anti-air barrage without unacceptable losses, any US intervention becomes inappropriate.

Posted by: pogohere | Dec 24 2018 1:57 utc | 203

@ juliania who told me I need to adjust
I believe you question the definition I provided and so am providing the link I got it from below
Yes, there is a war between science and religion
I would like to suggest that you read the article. I believe in reason and logic over faith and you seem to believe the opposite.
I believe we are (unless extinction intervenes) going to evolve to having governments that are not influenced by religions as evidenced by what China is doing to limit the influence on governance by the religions in their country
I don’t think I need to adjust, but thanks for showing your you statement projection. Could you translate your you statement of me into an I statement by you, please and thanks.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 24 2018 2:23 utc | 204

Lozion@192 –“Call me too optimistic but Magniers views that Turkey’s pressure on the US (via Kashoggi affair and more) to choose between the SDF and its NATO “ally”, added to Russia’s S-300 deployment (rumors of a battery already in DEZ) created the conditions for a US Honorable Discharge, so to speak.” Agree, but “…The GCC has been outwitted..” suggests 1) they were somehow in the driver’s seat, and 2) they are focused on taking advantage of the Turkey/Kurd situation.
I don’t think they were in the driver’s seat at all. It was the U.S. neocons/chickenhawks that invited them be replacement squatters/jihadi zookeepers for lower SDFistan’s Border Security Forces. The U.S. never figured they would really be needed in northern SDFistan because – in our FP pinhead’s reckoning – the U.S. could always manage Erdogan and the Kurds. At the same time, the U.S. could bail out on the Kurds without feeling too guilty about it, because the U.S. was leaving (other) Border Security Forces in northern Syria for their protection. And maybe the Saudis/UAE would lend a hand (air support) if necessary.
The Saudis/UAE agreed to the scheme and showed up, but mostly for their own interests. The primary one being occupation of lower SDFistan and resource theft. They really didn’t show up to fight anyone – with the exception of the occasional batch of leftover head-choppers that might refuse to be on their payroll. They would love an excuse to conduct airstrikes on Turkish – well, anything. But they didn’t expect to have to do that. They have zero intention of ever engaging in a ground war with the Turks.
Sudanese mercs? Sure – who is going to protect the few Saudi/UAE zookeepers in lower SDFistan? Of course they’ll own the local arab tribes/headchoppers (Border Security Forces), but they’re not going to show up without any cannon fodder. They hired 8,000 Janjaweed jihadis from their pimp, al-Bashir, for Yemen in 2015.
I don’t see the current situation as the GCC or US being outwitted. It’s more like being blinded so much by their own arrogance that they failed to understand how much this replacement squatter scheme would enrage Erdogan. That said, Erdogan’s rage/threats to invade are nothing new. He’s always threatening to go full-retard on the Kurds. I’ll believe it when I see it. In his more rational moments, Erdogan seems more than reluctant to pay the price to carry out his blowhard threats.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 24 2018 3:17 utc | 205

@ Guy Thornton 2
I’m guessing you must be a closet faggot…

Posted by: wanton piece | Dec 24 2018 4:28 utc | 206

All I’ve got to say to Trump is thank you for withdrawing the troops. No more US boys should die for nothing. The second thing is please don’t go to Dallas or ride with the top down anywhere, methinks they will try to murder ye!!!

Posted by: Fernando Martinez | Dec 24 2018 5:11 utc | 207

I am providing a link below from Xinhuanet that says Syria is buying missile systems from both the US and Russia
Spotlight: U.S. or Russian missiles, Turkey’s testing decision
The take away quote:

A Turkish official source told Xinhua anonymously that there was no change in plans to buy the S-400 modern weapons system, saying that Ankara is planning to acquire both Russian and U.S.-made missile systems.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 24 2018 6:18 utc | 208

@197 psychohistorian… i view it differently and feel russia and china are very much into this neoliberal agenda which includes private finance…also as i understand it, russia is very much into a type of christianity whether one wants to acknowledge this or not.. china and the chinese are very much into money and the accumulation of money.. we’ll see how it goes, if we live long enough., but i definitely don’t see russia and china being exceptional in having a different agenda with regards money.. you seem to, but not them! thanks..
@199 peter au.. yes, a guy at 79 is unlikely to change… trump has uranus prominent in his chart – most elevated planet and planet leading the others.. he is quite independent and definitely doesn’t care what others think.. these are some of his redeeming characteristics… he has the potential to upset the apple cart and seems to be doing so in a number of ways including this latest regarding pulling out the troops from syria.. as for any step towards containing iran, i think one can say that by doing this, he is also moving a step away from trying to do anything in iran… call me an optimist at this point.. i think some other factor in the usa is going to have to push for that, or to get rid of trump so they can push ahead with that.. we’ll see.. i remain positive here..
@201 jr.. trump may not have a great deal of integrity, but that doesn’t change some of the positive that he doing or that he can be his own person when he opts to be…you are saying he can be bought? i am not so sure of that.. i see him differently then erdogan.. more like a jack in the box then erdogan.. i wouldn’t discount his ability to do things from a completely different angle and not really care whether it is the socially accepted way or not.. i think this next year 2019 is going to be very difficult for him.. we’ll see what comes of it..
@202 grieved… that is a nice way to put it.. i think mistakes can be made.. i think mistakes have been made, but fortunately they have not been made on the side that i believe has the interests of the most at heart… clearly many think trump is making a mistake here with regard to syria! mcgurk, mattis and countless talking heads along with some leaders of nations which shall go unmentioned.. personally i believe funding the white helmets was a mistake and i believe supporting moderate headchoppers was a mistake, but most of all i feel trying to destroy syria was a mistake..fortunately russia got involved and that wasn’t a part of its agenda.. so, perhaps the way you see it and the way i do, meet up in the middle somewhere… more mistakes can still be made here.. life is in a constant state of flux..
but maybe it is the idea that the usa is declining and that this announcement from trump is like a similar announcement… trump sees that staying in syria is a losing proposition.. good… erdogan might too.. of that i am not as sure… thanks as always for your comments..

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 6:34 utc | 209

70…opps…

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 6:37 utc | 210

@ james with the difference in global optics
Yes, I see China/Russia being the edge of the wedge that takes humanity away from the private finance structured Western social order of centuries. They are not alone and the momentum building around their axis is growing.
Will the change come in what is left of my lifetime? I hope so but don’t own the outcome. I am a proud Hopi idealist and as evidenced by my moniker see my role, in a genetic sense, as lessening the time humanity takes to evolve away from our private finance controlled world…..in my little way…..I am the strident change agent gene

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 24 2018 7:20 utc | 211

Siotu | Dec 23, 2018 1:59:36 PM | 195
Exactly what is your problem with central planning? Pretty much every country on the planet uses central planning of some kind of other. Or perhaps you’re just stuck in some ideological rut, where certain words set you off, like planning or socialism.

Posted by: William Bowles | Dec 24 2018 12:53 utc | 212

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Dec 21, 2018 2:00:51 PM | 12
Tom, Argentina has it in writing.. But the US helped the UK in defeating Argentina then..

Posted by: Igor Bundy | Dec 24 2018 14:37 utc | 213

The US has a full-fledged planned economy based on the corporate form, organizing all economic and cultural activity according to domination by oligopoly corporate sectors, maximizing subsidies to the big corporate sectors, maximizing lower-level and proxy war (Trump’s noises about deviating somewhat from this have engendered universal outrage across the entire US political class, proving their planned-economy mindset toward it, besides their sadistic blood-lust), maximizing the destruction of the physical Earth and its ecology, and maximizing The Car. These are all massive, coordinated economic-militaristic offensives.
(Of course the “Green New Deal” scam would be no deviation from this onslaught, but just an additional part of it.)

Posted by: Russ | Dec 24 2018 16:15 utc | 214

Forgot to include, automatic bailouts for any corporate operation deemed “too big to fail”, and of course the Fed’s tightly orchestrated manipulation of the money supply for the benefit of speculators and the rich in general.

Posted by: Russ | Dec 24 2018 16:20 utc | 215

james
trump may not have a great deal of integrity, but that doesn’t change some of the positive that he doing or that he can be his own person when he opts to be..
I am not pro- or anti-Trump. Those who see him as hero or a devil are deluded. He is a symptom of our political system – a system doesn’t allow for the election of a true populist.
IMO MAGA is a policy change, not a Trump-originated campaign slogan. Trump is the person selected to lead that effort, just as Obama was selected to lead the effort to rehabilitate USA’s tarnished reputation after the Iraq War and Rendition and Torture. I sometimes refer to this blending of person and policy as “Trump psyop” and “Obama psyop”.
Trump fans (“Trumptards”), like Obama fans (“Obamabots”), believe that their populist hero will ultimately prevail. They don’t see, and don’t WANT to see, how their hero works for the establishment. They convince themselves that THEIR hero has complete integrity, complete devotion to an Agenda that is favorable to them, and FIGHTS the establishment on their behalf.
When I push back on this view, the Obamabots think I am pro-Trump, and the Trumptards think I’m pro-Obama. The way they define their world, precludes any nuanced view.
you are saying he can be bought? i am not so sure of that..
Those who know Trump will disagree with you vehemently. Trump’s strict money-focused father apparently drilled into Trump the need to make money – lots of it. And his father was apparently also keenly aware of his nuveau riche status. Trump is an avaricious, social-climber.
I read that Obama made $70 million in his first year after leaving office. The Clintons have also made tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions – and apparently have full control of how the billions of Clinton Foundation / Clinton Global Initiative are spent.
During the campaign, Trump said that he was worth $10 billion. Financial journalists have said that figure is wildly overstated. I see $10 billion as aspirational. He sees his Presidential ‘gig’ as potentially worth billions.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Pulling troops out of Syria is consistent with with some of Trump’s campaign rhetoric but inconsistent his anti-Iran stance and his “take the oil” statements.
During the campaign he also said that he would keeping his true motives and objectives unclear. That is part of negotiating, he told us.
So, once again, some degree of skepticism is prudent. The more we are led to believe that the ‘Trump psyop’ is a peace-maker, the more worried I am about a FF.
Trump’s attempt to isolate Iran has had limited success. Once Iran joins SCO and Russia installs it’s Avandgard hypersonic strategic missiles (in 2019), the opportunity to act against Iran will be greatly diminished. One could imagine Bolton pushing for a FF. Is that why he’s still there? Is that (really) why Mattis resigned – because he couldn’t stomach such an action on his watch?
I hope for peace. But experience tells me to be wary.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 24 2018 16:20 utc | 216

@213 psychohistorian.. that is very positive! my concern is china and russia will continue on with private finance.. i would like to be convinced otherwise!
@218 jr… fair enough… i agree with you here – “So, once again, some degree of skepticism is prudent. The more we are led to believe that the ‘Trump psyop’ is a peace-maker, the more worried I am about a FF.” i tend towards skepticism myself as well… trump isn’t an easy read and has an unpredictable quality about him.. i want to take the good on the face of it, but remain open to other outcomes with regard trumps syrian policy at present.. i am keeping it separate from anything he has said about iran.. i think the obsession with iran is misplaced… the fact kashoggis murder has put ksa in a bad place also helps alter the course perhaps… the fact ksa/uae continue to do what they are doing in yemen is another negative that interferes with the idea that iran is the great satan that the usa always likes to tell it’s people… in fact, i think a great number of people in the usa are no longer believing the bullshit they get from their msm 24/7…
i agree with you in your last line too.. i feel much the same… i think this is the result of seeing how things have gone with the usa in the past… i really believe we are entering into an important new cycle 2020… i can’t tell what it means, but i think it means less american power and a more multi polar world.. perhaps trump is receptive to this and willing to work with it, whether consciously or not? i would like to believe he is just a conduit from something better that is coming along, in spite of the shady nature of his personality.. we shall see just how everything unfolds from here to the end of his term, if he makes it to the end of his term… thanks for your comments as always!

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 17:12 utc | 217

@psychohistorian.. thanks for suggesting i read the link under your name.. i am reading it now and appreciate your story!

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 17:16 utc | 218

@ james that maybe I confused
I was referring in my comment above to my moniker, psychohistorian. In Asimov’s stories the psychohistorian guy tries to shorten the time that humanity spends in the bad place by eons…he is a big thinker
That is my goal, other than a semblance of community, in comment at MoA and a few other web sites. I want to do my little bit to help humanity evolve beyond the private finance controlled economic blood flow of our species model.
The only thing my crash did about my goal is to make me less caring about my own personal safety and more strident in beating my metaphorical drum.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 24 2018 18:42 utc | 219

ahh okay! thanks for clarifying that psychohistorian.. i wish you well in everything you are doing! i would like to see a similar outcome and like to think i am working towards a similar goal..

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 19:44 utc | 220

james mattis letter of resignation to trump..
“Dear Mr. President:
I have been privileged to serve as our country’s 26th Secretary of Defense which has allowed me to serve alongside our men and women of the Department in defense of our citizens and our ideals.
I am proud of the progress that has been made over the past two years on some of the key goals articulated in our National Defense Strategy: putting the Department on a more sound budgetary footing, improving readiness and lethality in our forces, and reforming the Department’s business practices for greater performance. Our troops continue to provide the capabilities needed to prevail in conflict and sustain strong U.S. global influence.
One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships. While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. Like you, I have said from the beginning that the armed forces of the United States should not be the policeman of the world. Instead, we must use all tools of American power to provide for the common defense, including providing effective leadership to our alliances. NATO’s 29 democracies demonstrated that strength in their commitment to fighting alongside us following the 9-11 attack on America. The Defeat-ISIS coalition of 74 nations is further proof.”

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 20:11 utc | 221

2nd part…
“Similarly, I believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries whose strategic interests are increasingly in tension with ours. It is clear that China and Russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model — gaining veto authority over other nations’ economic, diplomatic, and security decisions — to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, America and our allies. That is why we must use all the tools of American power to provide for the common defense.
My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues. We must do everything possible to advance an international order that is most conducive to our security, prosperity and values, and we are strengthened in this effort by the solidarity of our alliances.
Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position. The end date for my tenure is February 28, 2019, a date that should allow sufficient time for a successor to be nominated and confirmed as well as to make sure the Department’s interests are properly articulated and protected at upcoming events to include Congressional posture hearings and the NATO Defense Ministerial meeting in February. Further, that a full transition to a new Secretary of Defense occurs well in advance of the transition of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in September in order to ensure stability within the Department.
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I pledge my full effort to a smooth transition that ensures the needs and interests of the 2.15 million Service Members and 732,079 DoD civilians receive undistracted attention of the Department at all times so that they can fulfill their critical, round-the-clock mission to protect the American people.
I very much appreciate this opportunity to serve the nation and our men and women in uniform.
Jim N. Mattis”

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 20:12 utc | 222

ordinarily i would give a link.. it is from the nyt…
this paragraph is the most interesting to me…
“It is clear that China and Russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model — gaining veto authority over other nations’ economic, diplomatic, and security decisions — to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, America and our allies. That is why we must use all the tools of American power to provide for the common defense.”
how out of sync with that do others think it is? russia and china and authoritarian model?? seems like the usa has tehhe authoritarian model at present… mattis is pissed trump has a different thought about this.. that is what it looks like to me..

Posted by: james | Dec 24 2018 20:15 utc | 223

james
I’m glad that you went back to the resignation letter and quoted it here. I think we have a difference in interpretation, though.
First, Mattis tells you what he means by “authoritarian model” in the very next phrase: “gaining veto authority over other nation’s economic, diplomatic, and security decisions”. Ask yourself whose interests were harmed when Russia blocked ‘regime change’ in Syria? Israel and Saudi Arabia, mostly.
Yet there is no mention of Israel and Saudi Arabia in the letter. Nor is there any mention of Iran. This is all the more strange because Mattis reveals himself as a NWO Zionist with the keywords like “indispensible nation”, his deep concern for allies (what ally needs USA most?) and the “international order”, and stresses his “four decades of immersion in these issues” (coinciding with four decades of neocon ascension).
If you take Mattis’ silence about certain countries as an important signal then you get closer to MY understanding and concern. There is no question that Trump is concerned about Israel and Russia and China will soon have “veto power” over US action against Iran. Once Iran becomes a full member of SCO and Russia puts their hypersonic strategic missiles into service, US will lose the opportunity to attack Iran. For neocons and Israel First-ers, the time to act is NOW.
Consider:

1) Carrier Group Stennis arrived in the Persian Gulf just days before the resignation.
2) Trump’s Syrian withdrawal is welcome by many, the way that he made such a significant policy change was notably reckless in its haste. Surprising close allies and US officials.
3) Mattis’ resignation seems designed to burnish Trump’s credentials as a peacemaker.

Such things are troubling for those who are wary about US intentions and have taken due note of Obama’s deceitfulness.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
MoA commenters that I respect have noted the great difficulty of winning a ground war against Iran. But neocons may believe that a war of attrition that included destroying key infrastructure could turn the people against the ‘regime’. In a ‘real war’ situation, USA could also better enforce trade sanctions against Iran. Peaceful trade sanctions against Iran, backed by US soft power’ have not been as successful as Trump would’ve hoped. A fact underscored by the multiple waivers given to countries that continue to trade with Iran.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 24 2018 21:47 utc | 224

The US is moving on for the Latin America. The next hot war will be in Caribbean Basin/Venezuela

Posted by: Nick | Dec 24 2018 23:02 utc | 225

@226 jr… thanks for your comments… well, my opinion on mattis’s word were very limited… i read most of it as him being full of shite actually… that was in what he said, implied and didn’t say… i guess this is a requirement of some higher up in the military… they have to talk in a more political way, but he is full of shite regardless…
now, as to your comment about moving onto iran.. i don’t think it can happen.. pulling out of syria has made it less attractive too as i see it.. i could be wrong, and i do agree with you the neocon koolaid drinkers will push for this regardless of the response that would happen if it were to happen… it is another ww3 scenario essentially.. i am hopeful it doesn’t happen, but with even so called ordinary leaders or people in positions of power in the usa so consumed in the koolaid, it is still possible as you seem to suggest..
any way you slice it, the usa is on the short end of the stick at this point, as i see it.. they can still cause a huge amount of trouble, but less and less folks are buying into the koolaid, or their manufactured bs…msm be damned…
and, yes – i continue to be very wary of usa at this point in time… just like i would be wary of some lunatic who lived up the street and owned a gun.. thank god i don’t live in the usa… the political class in canada are whacky enough!

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2018 2:42 utc | 226

@ financial matters # 33 with the link to the Green New Deal….thanks
The problem with the GND is that it does not seem to address …
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 21, 2018 9:00:16 PM | 65
… and several others …

Mind your step now, path ahead swimming in dogshit!
I followed the GND link and read the first number of paragraphs but quickly got the sense of where it is going, and only skimmed very quickly over the rest of it. My feeling is that this is a combination of Obama’s pre-election bullshit with Intgrity Initiative (sic) style psyop. Once these lying bullshitters come into power you can say goodbye to their empty GND promises.
Look at the text in that link critically – it is 100% pure psyop, designed to make the eyes blur and the brain dumb. Anybody who believes that airy fairy stuff is in urgent need of a good parachute.

Posted by: BM | Dec 25 2018 3:55 utc | 227

@ BM who wrote about the GND: “Anybody who believes that airy fairy stuff is in urgent need of a good parachute.”
Of course your characterization is more accurate but I am practicing being polite.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 25 2018 4:52 utc | 228

Of course your characterization is more accurate but I am practicing being polite.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 24, 2018 11:52:21 PM | 230

Yea, you were doing so quite nicely. Sorry to have lumped you with the “and several others” I didn’t mean to suggest you fell for it, I should have worded the reference differently.

Posted by: BM | Dec 25 2018 6:03 utc | 229

james
Sane, whole people would not attack Iran and would not do false flags. But those who would do those things think differently and find ways to justify their actions.
IMO those who dismiss the possibility of a shooting war with Iran are thinking of a traditional kind of war where an invader seeks to conquer. In reality a shooting war with Iran would likely be mostly about destroying infrastructure to spur regime change. And if regime change ultimately fails, they have destroyed enough infrastructure to set back the country by years, even a decade or more.
I think that, from a neocon perspective, the hurdle for war is not as great as you may think. I see a situation that has been arranged to be the perfect backdrop for a ff. And I see empire imperatives that neocons are loath to abandon.
I write of these things because IF there is a ff that is used to justify war, the media will say that “no one could’ve foreseen this”. This simple statement fools most people. It was used, for example, for 9-11 and the subprime credit disaster behind the 2008 Global Financial Crisis. Just because “no one foresaw” an event doesn’t mean it wasn’t planned or that someone should not have anticipated it.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 25 2018 6:37 utc | 230

I know it’s post Christmas Eve but I just had to post this. Is this Trump crazy talk or is this for real?
Saudis to fund Syria reconstruction
Will they send in a Trojan Horse too? Beware of Saudis bearing gifts!

Posted by: Circe | Dec 25 2018 6:37 utc | 231

Circe 233
If US thugs couldn’t accomplish it directly, why do you think Saudi-hired thugs would be able to do it?

Posted by: Russ | Dec 25 2018 8:43 utc | 232

Circe | Dec 25, 2018 1:37:39 AM | 233
The link has been removed

Posted by: William Bowles | Dec 25 2018 9:16 utc | 233

So here is another take on Trump pulling out of Syria:
US Withdrawal From Syria Paves Way for Israeli Strikes
https://journal-neo.org/2018/12/25/us-withdrawal-from-syria-paves-way-for-israeli-strikes/
Cartalucci writes:

A genuine withdrawal from the Syrian conflict would signal a seismic shift in US foreign policy and mark an irreversible decline in American hegemony.
It is difficult to believe such a seismic shift could happen, and so suddenly.
It is also a shift not founded in US foreign policy or fact.
There are several key possibilities to consider:

    It also paves the way for an expanded Turkish incursion;
  • US troops won’t be on the ground as targets in the immediate aftermath of any wider conflict Israel or Turkey provokes;
  • US troops can re-enter theater with renewed pretext to fight Damascus directly in defense of allies Israel or Turkey and;
  • US troops can re-enter theater along the better formed and protected front Turkey seeks to create.

The above possibilities are drawn not from speculation, but from multiple US policy papers spanning decades.
/../
US Withdrawal From Syria Removes Obstructions to Escalation, Not Peace
US policymakers have drawn up plans for years regarding US primacy in the Middle East. In the 2009 policy paper published by corporate-financier funded think tank – the Brookings Institution – the use of US proxies like Israel to carry out major attacks on Iran were given its own chapter.
However, the only obstruction to this option was the necessity of Israeli warplanes to fly over either US-ally Jordan or US-occupied Iraq.
The report would claim under a chapter titled, “Leave it to Bibi: Allowing or Encouraging an Israeli Military Strike” (.pdf) that (emphasis added):
An Israeli air campaign against Iran would have a number of very important differences from an American campaign. First, the Israeli Air Force (IAF) has the problem of overflight transit from Israel to Iran. Israel has no aircraft carriers, so its planes must take off from Israeli air bases. It also does not possess long-range bombers like the B-1 or B-2, or huge fleets of refueling tankers, all of which means that unlike the United States, Israel cannot avoid flying through someone’s air space. The most direct route from Israel to Iran’s Natanz facility is roughly 1,750 kilometers across Jordan and Iraq. As the occupying power in Iraq, the United States is responsible for defending Iraqi airspace.
It would also state (emphasis added):
From the American perspective, this negates the whole point of the option—distancing the United States from culpability—and it could jeopardize American efforts in Iraq, thus making it a possible nonstarter for Washington. Finally, Israeli violation of Jordanian airspace would likely create political problems for King Abdullah of Jordan, one of America’s (and Israel’s) closest Arab friends in the region. Thus it is exceedingly unlikely that the United States would allow Israel to overfly Iraq, and because of the problems it would create for Washington and Amman, it is unlikely that Israel would try to fly over Jordan.
And finally, the Brookings paper would claim (emphasis added):
An Israeli attack on Iran would directly affect key American strategic interests. If Israel were to overfly Iraq, both the Iranians and the vast majority of people around the world would see the strike as abetted, if not authorized, by the United States. Even if Israel were to use another route, many Iranians would still see the attack as American supported or even American orchestrated. After all, the aircraft in any strike would be American produced, supplied, and funded F-15s and F-16s, and much of the ordnance would be American made. In fact, $3 billion dollars in U.S. assistance annually sustains the IDF’s conventional superiority in the region.

Posted by: William Bowles | Dec 25 2018 13:28 utc | 234

Green New Deal, so big I never heard of it. This guy here is the architect of the New Deal (though a Rep. Congressman) was a co-founder at Ford, was the man who proposed the $5/work day and understood the difference between finance and real production; the difference between utilities and free markets. Read and learn about Sen James T Couzens. Good to read you Don Bacon, it’s been a minute; happy holidays to you. https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/taxlr66&div=30&id=&page=

Posted by: Scottindallas | Dec 25 2018 15:57 utc | 235

@234
Did you read the article? Trump tweeted it is going to happen, and since some people around here trust everything Trump does and says so much, I thought I’d enlighten everyone to what he was up to on Christmas Eve. My question is: Who are the Saudis going to coordinate with on the reconstruction? The FSA or the Saudi various mercenaries? If I were Assad and Russia I’d say Give us the billion for the damage you did, no strings, and get your goons and thugs outta here, and stay out of Syria!

Posted by: Circe | Dec 25 2018 16:10 utc | 236

Don Bacon’s comment earlier in the thread was that Trump couldn’t be bought. I think that is right but would put it a different way.
Trump all his life has been the one in charge, giving out orders rather than taking them. He has never been a ladder climber in a system.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 23, 2018 3:54:00 PM | 199

Oops! You seem to have overlooked the fact that his father thought he he lacked discipline and packed him off to (kill or cure) Military Academy to learn some. The first thing the Young Donald learnt was that this Military Academy caper can be a lot of fun if you play your cards right and he played his cards better than everybody else. He thus starred all the way through his time there, both academically and socially. It’s not too much of a stretch to assume that he also learned something about Military Matters and Governance Matters. He seems also to have discovered that Humility is a tactic, not a state of mind…

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 25 2018 16:34 utc | 237

Francis Ballanche
https://www.academia.edu/37073198/THE_UNITED_STATES_IN_NORTHEASTERN_SYRIA?source=swp_share

Posted by: Virgile | Dec 25 2018 16:59 utc | 238

@ 232 jackrabbit… you could be right… i wouldn’t discount anything, including some ff to get a war going.. i mostly felt trumps suggestion of pulling the troops out of syria and getting out of syria positive, although i saw usa bombed a bridge in diez ezzor a day or two ago and so just how keen they are to leave isn’t quite apparent just yet… maybe they just want to make sure to screw it for syria a bit more before they leave..
it seems to me the usa is really divided, or else they continue to be fully fucked.. this is like having a choice between hillary or trump, lol… shitty choices all around… we will have to wait and see how things unfold, but a temporary sigh of relief i think is in order! meanwhile @ 236 william bowles offer a viewpoint more in line with you present attitude as i understand it..
@ 240 irgile.. re the francis ballanche pdf – it was written sometime before trumps announcement… i wonder what francis thinks now? obviously mcgurk and mattis were behind the agenda he lays out… i didn’t download it, but read the pages at the link… it is amazing how much money has been paid for this kind of analysis from academia and etc..

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2018 19:38 utc | 239

@Circe and William Bowles
Sauds pay for Syria reconstruction

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 25 2018 19:42 utc | 240

jr – speaking of ff’s – The Israeli military says an air defense system was launched against an anti-aircraft missile coming from Syria. This comes after missile defense systems near Damascus were deployed against incoming targets.
https://www.rt.com/news/447395-israel-air-defense-syria/

Posted by: james | Dec 25 2018 21:15 utc | 241

Erdogan told Macron today that here is no reason for Fr troops to stay in Northern Syria. Time for France to deal with its home made terrorists and their families.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 25 2018 21:35 utc | 242

So now we have reports that Turkey will invade. It seems that NATO Turkey will replace US troops. And US special forces may also remain as they are not generally counted as “troops”. Turks want US logistics and may also want US air support.
Circe has cited reports that KSA and maybe other Sunni countries might also be involved militarily in Eastern Syria. I would be surprised if that were the case. I think KSA is bogged down in Yemen but they might continue to provide financial support to proxies like SDF.
I don’t think this is what most defenders of Trump envisioned when Trump announced that USA was getting out of Syria. What is developing in Eastern Syria appears to be something similar to Yemen where US supports an allies (KSA and UAE) against another country.
USA has reportedly bombed a bridge that SAA was constructing. This appears to underscore USA determination that Eastern Syria continued to be controlled by forces opposed to Assad.
I think those cheering Trump’s pull-out might want to temper their enthusiasm until the situation becomes more clear. And if USA assumes a Yemen-type support role for Turkey and SDF control of Eastern Syria, those cheering Trumps troop withdrawal have a different view of Mattis’ resignation letter. Would Mattis THAT upset that another NATO country was taking the lead? Or was his resignation principally a PR stunt that makes Trump look like a peacemaker?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 26 2018 1:10 utc | 243

@243 james
Syria warned Israel that attacks on its land could come to be reciprocated with attacks on Israel. Do I read this correctly, that Israeli fired missiles at Damascus – which were successfully defended against – and then had to engage its own defense against Syrian missiles coming at Israel?
~~
@245 Jackrabbit
I don’t call myself a “defender of Trump” but I do see a significant difference between the US presence in Syria last week and the presence to come in the future. The difference is that the US presence will be covert and not official.
US forces, as with Turkish, Kurdish, Saudi, French, and mercenary forces of all stripe, can now be killed without triggering a global war between the US and Russia. This is the big difference. Formalities do matter. The official position on the surface does count. This is what is changing. It’s true of course that any policy can be reversed – this withdrawal itself is such a reversal.
We are seeing a geo-political shift of significance being made in public. It hardly matters what continues to happen in the covert realm, as long as it stays covert. What matters is this shift.
We will all await events as they flow from this, of course. I don’t see a lot of “Trump-defending” going on. I do see a lot of heartache in the mainstream that he might have made a seriously good move. It was actually a very smart move to announce withdrawal. He’s let his country dodge the bullet that sooner or later had to hit it in Syria.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 26 2018 1:29 utc | 244

@ 246 grieved.. you read that correctly… 2 way st… i guess israel started it and syria responded..
i think the other difference that you miss in your comments to jr is that the usa was wanting to pass off eastern syria to the kurds in an independent state… i don’t believe that is erdogans game plan, although this is the same guy who was happy selling stolen oil for profit from the same oil wells… i guess as jr says, we will have to wait and see.. i am cautiously optimistic…

Posted by: james | Dec 26 2018 2:18 utc | 245

james, Grieved
The Israeli attack may well be an attempt to keep US in Syria. If Syria were to respond eye for an eye at this point in time, I doubt Trump could pull US out of Syria even if that is his genuine intention.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Dec 26 2018 4:00 utc | 246


We are seeing a geo-political shift of significance being made in public. It hardly matters what continues to happen in the covert realm, as long as it stays covert. What matters is this shift.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 25, 2018 8:29:43 PM | 246

That seems to be what’s happened. And it’s reinforced somewhat by the fact that it was the gaping holes in AmeriKKKa’s not-quite-covert Syria strategy which allowed Putin to drive a big chunk of Russian Military equipment & expertise through them, into Syria – in broad daylight.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 26 2018 4:30 utc | 247

@248 peter au… probably… israel invades other countries and gets an okay from the west on a regular basis.. i suppose being the insolent and petulant child that they are, they figure this is the way to solicit a response from the adults in the room..unfortunately there aren’t many adults in the room, and the usa isn’t one of them either.. too bad israel still hasn’t figured out how to be a good neighbour.. stealing others property seems to be the regular mode of operation, when they are not invading others property… sad..

Posted by: james | Dec 26 2018 16:46 utc | 248

rattlemullet@116
See also Carter’s other war crimes:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/18/jimmy-carters-blood-drenched-legacy/print/

Posted by: Krollchem | Dec 26 2018 17:32 utc | 249