Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 15, 2018

U.S., Saudis Fight Over Crown Prince Advisor - White House Tries To Appease Erdogan

The chief prosecutor of Saudi Arabia cleared his boss, clown prince Muhammad bin Salman, of involvement in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. A number of easily replaceable people were indicted. In a coordinated move the U.S. Treasury sanctioned a number of the people who played a role in the Khashoggi case. There is an interesting difference between the Saudi and the U.S. list of the involved people. Meanwhile the White House is looking for ways to induce Turkey to finally settle the case.

The Saudi prosecutor indicted eleven people and demands the death penalty for five of them. It is not yet known under which article of Saudi law the people were indicted. Death penalties under some articles often end with pardons. Ten other persons are still under investigation.

The story told in the briefing of the Saudi investigation results gives a new version of the events. (No names are given in the briefing. They were added below based on earlier reports.) The briefing says:

  • The former Deputy President of the General Intelligence Presidency (GIP), Major General Ahmed al-Asiri, issued an order to the mission leader Maher Mutreb to bring Kashoggi back to Saudi Arabia by means of persuasion or by force.
  • ‏The leader of the mission formed a 15-member team that consisted of three groups (negotiations/ intelligence/ logistics) to persuade and return the victim. Mutreb consulted with the now fired advisor to MbS, Saud al-Qahtani, because Qahtani knew Khashoggi.
  • A forensic expert was included in the team "for the purpose of removing evidence from the scene in the case force had to be used to return the victim."
  • The mission leader contacted a collaborator in Turkey "to secure a safe location in case force had to be used return the victim."
  • "After surveying the Consulate, the head of the negotiation team concluded that it would not be possible to transfer the victim by force to the safe location in case the negotiations with him to return failed. The head of the negotiation team decided to murder the victim if the negotiations failed."
  • The investigation concluded that the crime was carried out after a physical altercation with the victim where he was forcibly restrained and injected with a large amount of a drug resulting in an overdose that led to his death.
  • The bod was dismembered. Five people carried the parts out of the consulate and one of them later handed them over to a collaborator.
  • One member of the mission put on Khashoggi's clothes, walked outside for a while and disposed them in a trash can.
  • The leader of the mission agreed with the leader of the negotiation team to write a false report which claimed that that Khashoggi had left the consulate.

So far the story the Saudi investigation tries to sell.

It effectively absolve the clown prince. It absolves his media advisor Saud al-Qahtani and MG Ahmed al-Asiri. The leader of mission will probably be sentenced for falsifying his report, while the head of the negotiation team and some of his helpers will take the brunt of the penalties. They are commoners, three or four levels below the top, and of no further value.

The story is of course not believable. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy. No low level employee would dare to decided to kill a person of higher interests when the order says to bring the person back alive. Neither the mission leader nor the negotiation team leader would take such a step without consulting with Riyadh.

The murder was clearly planned at a higher level and well before the team landed in Istanbul. One does not bring a person that looks like the victim to make it look like the victim walked out 'just in case' something bad happens. If an abduction is planned one does not bring a 'forensic expert' -who in reality is a well known doctor specialized in autopsies- to 'cleanup' the scene.

The Saudi release was coordinated with the White House. Shortly after the Saudi prosecutor went public, the U.S. Treasury sanctioned several persons under the Global Magnitzky Act over the case:

Today, the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated Saud al-Qahtani, his subordinate Maher Mutreb, Saudi Consul General Mohammed Alotaibi, and 14 other members of an operations team for having a role in the killing of Jamal Khashoggi.

The inclusion of al-Qahtani, who was the closed advisor to MbS, is quite interesting. The Saudi investigation tale does not give a him role besides consulting with the mission leader. It even tries to exculpate him by explaining his patriotic motive:

The former advisor met with the leader of the mission and the negotiation team; to share with them information relevant to the mission based on his specialization in media. The former advisor expressed his belief that the victim was coopted by organizations and states hostile to the Kingdom and that the victim’s presence outside of Saudi Arabia represents a threat to national security and he encouraged the team to persuade the victim to return, noting that his return represents a significant achievement of the mission.

The Treasury designation gives him a way more active role:

Saud Al-Qahtani is a senior official of the Government of Saudi Arabia who was part of the planning and execution of the operation that led to the killing of Mr. Khashoggi in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, Turkey on October 2, 2018. This operation was coordinated and executed by his subordinate Maher Mutreb, and involved participation of at least 14 other Saudi government officials: ...

The sanction designation describes Maher Mutreb as "subordinate" of Qahtani. The Saudi report does not mention any such relation.

This is of interest as one of the tapes the Turks have is of a phone call by mission leader Maher Mutreb with an unnamed person in Riyadh. In the call Mutrab says: "Tell your boss the deed is done":

While the prince was not mentioned by name, American intelligence officials believe “your boss” was a reference to Prince Mohammed. Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, one of 15 Saudis dispatched to Istanbul to confront Mr. Khashoggi at the Saudi Consulate there, made the phone call and spoke in Arabic, the people said.

The killer team was set up by Ahmed al-Asiri, but al-Asiri is not mentioned in the Treasury designation, while al-Qahtani is. The U.S. seems to believe that it was al-Qahtani who actually directed the operation and who sent his subordinate Maher Mutreb to lead the mission. Qahtani's one and only boss is clown prince MbS.


Saud al-Qahtani with Mohammad bin Salman - bigger

MbS probably wants Qahtani back in his role as a personal and political advisor. The Saudi investigation puts him in a positive light while the Treasury gives him a leading role. The U.S. seem willing to let MbS stay in his job but it wants to remove Qahtani from his inner circle.

The Trump administration is also actively looking for ways to appease the Turkish President Recep Erdogan. One price Erdogan has long demanded is the head of the Gülen movement, the Turkish cleric Fethullah Gülen. Erdogan claims that Gülen was behind the failed 2016 coup attempt against him.

In the late 1990s Gülen was settled in Pennsylvania with a green card the CIA's Graham E. Fuller organized for him. Trump seem to be willing to hand Gülen over to Erdogan:

The White House is looking for ways to remove an enemy of Turkish President Recep Erdogan from the U.S. in order to placate Turkey over the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, according to two senior U.S. officials and two other people briefed on the requests.

Trump administration officials last month asked federal law enforcement agencies to examine legal ways of removing exiled Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen in an attempt to persuade Erdogan to ease pressure on the Saudi government, the four sources said.

The effort includes directives to the Justice Department and FBI that officials reopen Turkey's case for his extradition, as well as a request to the Homeland Security Department for information about his legal status, the four people said.

The four sources talking to NBC are likely from the CIA out to sabotage Trump's plan. Gülen and his network of schools in Turkey, now closed, and in Central Asia are major deep state assets.

Erdogan has milked the Khashoggi case as well as he could. He still has not published the tapes taken within the Consulate and the recordings of the various phone calls. He will try to use these to get more benefits from the case.

Trump will not be able to hand Gülen to him. The deep state will do its best to prevent that. Another demand Erdogan has is the removal of U.S. support from their Kurdish proxies in Syria. Without U.S. protection for the Kurds he could pursue his plan for annexing the whole northern border region of Syria from the Mediterranean to Iraq. Would Trump willing, and able, to deliver that?

Posted by b on November 15, 2018 at 02:41 PM | Permalink

Comments
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thanks b.. good overview.. there was no way the war party was going to say mbs was responsible for it... too much war booty is at stake.. i hope erdogan continues to push on this.. it is clear what both the usa and erdogans agenda is here.. erdogan has a lot more on his side too.. meanwhile the cia will not hand over gulen.. that is no surprise!

what gets me is just how ugly the usa's game is at this point..

Posted by: james | Nov 15, 2018 2:55:07 PM | 1

I have this image of a Turkish python desperately stretching and squeezing and swallowing Trumps bloated naked body with the CIA standing around scratching their heads and balls deciding whether to push or pull. They all deserve to burn.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 15, 2018 3:22:33 PM | 2

https://www.rt.com/newsline/444080-saudi-prince-journalist-fm/

Saudi crown prince has ‘absolutely nothing to do’ with murder of Khashoggi – FM

ksa pushing a story-line particularly hard here...

Posted by: james | Nov 15, 2018 3:23:43 PM | 3

The US simply will not hand over Gülen, not only will the CIA not allow it, but under US extradition laws there isn't a chance he would lose in court. I don't believe that the US will suddenly roll over on the Kurds either; the deep state likewise has too much invested to cut their losses and run. In my opinion, a compromise involving lifting the Saudi blockade of Qatar and having the Kurds withdraw from Manbij but not farther is the most likely. That alone might not be enough though, and there's a good chance Erdo will release the tapes if he isn't satisfied. Or 'leak' them a month or two later. One can only hope

Posted by: Don Wiscacho | Nov 15, 2018 3:38:17 PM | 4

The Turkish Drip will continue as, IMO, there're now more players to appease than just Erdogan now that Qatar's regional coalition proposal's become public. I expect accusations of Cover Up to soon begin with the Outlaw US Empire now revealed as an abettor in that effort. Regional dynamics are undergoing a makeover, and the result will not please the Empire as it will be at an even greater disadvantage than it is now.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15, 2018 3:41:11 PM | 5

I strongly hope Tronald doesn't get Gülen extradited. Erdo should not come to to good terms with the usa again...

Posted by: Pnyx | Nov 15, 2018 3:42:54 PM | 6

Even if Trump could throw the Kurds under the bus, my wager would be within a week they would realign with the Syrian government. It's either that or Turkish occupation. And for all of their shortsightedness, I don't think they're that myopic.

Posted by: Don Wiscacho | Nov 15, 2018 3:46:59 PM | 7

The clown is just going to throw 15 of his guys under the bus(chopping block) with no repercussions? One would think that display of loyality would cost the clown his life.

Posted by: SO | Nov 15, 2018 3:51:53 PM | 8

So ... The head of the negotiation team decided to murder the victim if the negotiations failed. but Khashoggi's death was accidentally caused by an injection of a large amount of a drug?!?

The reason for this nonadmission seems to be that the Turks tell a different story. They say that Khashoggi was murdered within minutes of entering the Consulate. That indicates that there was little, if any, attempt to negotiate.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 4:07:43 PM | 9

Corporate media is coyly headlining this story "Saudi prosecutor seeks death penalty in Kashoggi case".

That's like saying, "Kid with pocketful of change 'seeks' gumball from well-oiled gumball machine."

If the farce proceeds apace, it will be interesting to see whether Western leaders will endorse the scapegoat slaughter, and prounounce themselves satisfied that MbS has resolved this contretemps entirely in accordance with the sacred Rule of Law.

I expect that they will. Thus, honor is saved all around. All glory to the Orb!

Posted by: Ort | Nov 15, 2018 4:25:34 PM | 10

1. I don't quite understand what is so important about Gülen that he won't be sacrificed, if need be.

2. I'm sure that Erdogan does want to beat down Kurds, in order to prevent a revival in Syria, which might help Kurds in Turkey. But annexing Kurdish North Syria, as you suggest, is beyond silliness. Adding a load of Kurds to Turkey, is just giving him extra problems. Very unlikely.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 15, 2018 4:33:22 PM | 11

I find it strange that they admit to an intent to murder at all. Why not just say that Khashoggi got violent and some member of the team decided to administer a drug meant to calm him?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 4:36:52 PM | 12

jr - it is obvious that the saudis aren't very good liars.. they could take some lessons from the usa!

Posted by: james | Nov 15, 2018 4:38:22 PM | 13

The 'major deep state asset' link appears to have disappeared into the old security alert followed by 404.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 15, 2018 4:46:10 PM | 14

The 'major asset' link doesn't work for me.

Also, can someone clarify what's going on? Why does MsB care if the tapes get published? There seems a ton of wrangling going on, but all the things that really matter are happening behind the scenes as bargaining chips. It's like this is the result of built-up energy that's coming out from a minor stimulus. So, my question is: why couldn't all this bargaining happen w/o the Kashoggi haggling? Why the farce for the media that everyone cares about who ordered what in Saudi Arabia?

Posted by: A | Nov 15, 2018 4:47:59 PM | 15

Laguerre: annexing Kurdish North Syria, as you suggest, is beyond silliness.

But Erdogan has already talked about occupying the Syrian side of the Turk-Syrian border.

I imagine it would be many years before any annexation, so no new Kurds would be added to the Turk population for many years, if ever.

Its difficult to know what may happen in the years to come. Perhaps, Erdogan plans to annex Idlib, Afrin, and Manjib (provinces west of Euphrates river) and move the Kurds in those provinces to the east? Much easier to do that if he has control of the provinces in the east.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 4:48:44 PM | 16

wouldn't be added

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 4:49:49 PM | 17

Laguerre, you asked:

I don't quite understand what is so important about Gülen that he won't be sacrificed, if need be.

Posted by: Uncoy | Nov 15, 2018 5:28:05 PM | 18

Laguerre @ 11: As B says in his post, in 1996 Fethullah Gülen was brought to the US by CIA agent Graham Fuller who was his sponsor.

Gülen may know something about Fuller's past family connections. Fuller's daughter used to be married to Ruslan Tsarny. Does the name "Tsarny" ring a bell with anyone here?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315929/Boston-terror-suspects-uncle-married-CIA-officers-daughter-shared-home-agent.html

If Gülen is forced to return to Turkey, he may decide to talk a lot and indiscreetly.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 15, 2018 5:32:37 PM | 19

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 4:48:44 PM | 16

"But Erdogan has already talked about occupying the Syrian side of the Turk-Syrian border."

Quotation? and was it recent? Erdogan is obsessed by the Kurds, and with beating them down (a mistake in my view, for Turkey's future, but there we are). Adding more Kurds to Turkey by annexation is absolutely against his interests, and I doubt he is doing it. Temporary occupation, in order to prevent the Syrian Kurds helping their neighbours, is logical, even if not a good choice.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 15, 2018 5:34:15 PM | 20

Laguerre, you asked:

I don't quite understand what is so important about Gülen that he won't be sacrificed, if need be.

Gülen has some domestic support in Turkey. If the US decides to overturn Turkey and take Erdogan off his golden throne (as they tried a few years ago with the failed military coup), Gülen will be parachuted in in the Poroshenko role in Ukraine.

Something similar was going on in the exlie of Ahmed Chalabi, but Chalabi turned out to be so unpopular in Iraq, that it was impossible to get full value out of him and the US had to settle for Chalbi getting a deputy primeministership where he was in charge of "de-baathification". In 2006 Chalapi was at Bilderburg in Canada. This is the kind of role planned for Gülen who has already participated in the failed officers coup.

Posted by: Uncoy | Nov 15, 2018 5:44:00 PM | 21

Posted by: Jen | Nov 15, 2018 5:32:37 PM | 19

"If Gülen is forced to return to Turkey, he may decide to talk a lot and indiscreetly."

The Turks are not great on letting people talk. And Erdogan hates him so. Does he have very much to say? I rather doubt it.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 15, 2018 5:44:43 PM | 22

Posted by: Uncoy | Nov 15, 2018 5:44:00 PM | 21

Gülen is a guru, not a country leader. US planners make lots of mistakes, but not that.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 15, 2018 5:52:08 PM | 23

a #15 asks: Why the farce for the media that everyone cares about who ordered what in Saudi Arabia?

I too had that question. I think it comes down to the fact that Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post. Could you imagine their shock? The nerve of the Saudi's to insult the second most influential newspaper in the the US? It took them a few days after the murder but they then covered the story with a vengeance. Even after all the facts had been revealed they continued to keep the story on their front page and rest of the media followed suit. This made it politically difficult for Trump to accept the cover up line.

We should also keep in mind that every one knows that it was the Saudis who carried out 911 but Washington and the MSN were willing to let that story go to sleep. However this time it was WaPo specifically whose honor was attacked. There may also be some fatigue over excusing SA for its barbaric behavior and rest of the mainstream herd reacted.

Posted by: ToivoS | Nov 15, 2018 6:12:19 PM | 24

Gulen is a CIA asset. People like Gulen are used to foment political unrest. To put it politely, a guy like Gulen (and the Gulen movement) is a countermeasure to Erdogan.

Assets like these are useful and necessary when it comes time to stage a coup. USA always wants division and strife. It keeps the target country off balance. Easier for the multinational corps to loot target country.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 15, 2018 6:22:56 PM | 25

Khashoggi event is clearly a Globalist Deep State operation involving multiple intelligence agencies, including Saudi Arabia, US, Turkey and perhaps others. Basically MSM and alt media all on the same page although Sibel Edmonds has done her part to cast some doubt and Caitlin Johnstone has warned us to question a narrative that is universally presented without any evidence

Turkey played a major role here. To date we have zero evidence presented to the public and multiple leaks from anonymous sources followed by officials affirming, then retracting or denying then accepting the story which changes often. All designed to create confusion. As I asked before, especially after Brunson got released, what does Turkey get out of their cooperation. Gulen (guess what) ? Sanction relief (trump exempts them from Iran oil sanctions). Better relations with US? Weaken his arch rival MBS?

Whats the US getting out of it? More control over MBS who looked to be going rogue? Israel and Kushner have good reason for wanting him to stay and Trump needs to keep Bibi happy but he needed to lower oil prices and make good on the arm deals. Guess what? Oil prices started to plummet starting from the Khashoggi event in October and Lockheed may be getting some good news soon. Getting Brunson back helped Trump before the mid terms. Winning.

So what about the Saudi Arabian cooperation?. Obviously a faction inside sought to weaken MBS. He has made plenty of enemies. Perhaps a couple of his guys were turned as well (money, blackmail, threats to family). So at the end of the day they go along with the Deep States story but absolve MBS. Nobody believes it so its like a loaded gun to keep MBS on the right path knowing it can be revisited. Now he knows their power to manipulate reality

Khashoggi out of the picture works for Israel too as he was pro Palestinian. His absence works for US in other ways with 9/11 trials against Saudi Arabia looming , and he did dare to criticize Trump.

Perhaps Khashoggi is safely secured in some Saudi palace basement where he cant speak out against MBS, or maybe MBS has his head mounted on the wall to remind him to follow orders. Who cares?

Posted by: Pft | Nov 15, 2018 6:24:39 PM | 26

Laguerre

Erdogan vows to extend Turkey's operation to Syria's northeast
After taking Afrin, Turkish president says Ankara will continue army operation further east, where US army has presence.

Once again: Turkey doesn't need to annex the entire border area and it could take years before there is any formal annexation (if ever). Erdogan's plans are unknown and possibly fluid. He could, for example, move Kurds from west of the Euphrates to east of the Euphrates.

Look at Golan Heights. Not annexed, but controlled by Israel for many years with no end in sight.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 6:41:14 PM | 27

@karlof1 5
Wow, that's big concerning the Qatari proposal; thanks for sharing the link. Interesting that I didn't see anything immediately apparent about it on al Jazeera...

@Don Wiscacho 7
Yes, according to Robert Fisk, the Kurds have maintained communication with Syrian and Russian militaries. I think there have even been talk of quasi federalization of the Northern part of the country at one point.

Posted by: robjira | Nov 15, 2018 7:14:01 PM | 28

"...the U.S. Treasury sanctioned several persons under the Global Magnitzky Act over the [Khashoggi murder] case."

Priceless.

When will we see the U.S. Treasury' sanctions against Bill Browder for his involvement in the massive tax fraud as well as several murder cases in Russia? https://themarketswork.com/2018/09/06/the-inconsistencies-of-bill-browder/

A documentary about the scoundrel has been banned both in the EU and US: https://nationalvanguard.org/2018/07/must-watch-russian-documentary-banned-in-the-west-the-magnitsky-act-behind-the-scenes/

This Bill Browder the scoundrel, deeply trusted and loved by the US Congress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryVavTF6hR0

Posted by: Anya | Nov 15, 2018 7:16:06 PM | 29

Comments here support the obvious, not nation states but their intelligence agencies, state departments, private corporations, wall street, banking establishments, government contractors and think tanks are the multinational permanent state. It is the permanent state, not the elected state, that control things. Cheney.. Kissinger ; Everyone else is an elected or appointed must follow er..
alternative news should focus on the permanent state, leave the elected state sham to fake news. . Who are the permanent state? How are their finger prints identified in these types of events?
The citizens might as well burn or sell their votes; no matter election outcome nothing is going to change but the names of those elected.
The handling of the Khashoggi murder suggest journalist too close to that truth will be given must attend invitations to a 7 minute personal demonstration of the Khashoggi maneuver.

Posted by: snake | Nov 15, 2018 7:17:12 PM | 30

15 & 24--

Why the media outcry?

Compare the alleged Skripal event versus Khashoggi event and the actions taken by NATO nations. You'll find several answers there as the two "hated" entities are Russia and Trump. Look at how Russia and its allies have acted in comparison. Then look closely at the geopolitics involved, especially Yemen and the nations guilty of that Crime--then consider all the crap shoveled without proof at Assad. Then look at the most recent outcomes: Yemen's in the spotlight--finally--and arms shipments to Saudi are being stopped; The EU needs to defend itself from--the US?! Multiple nations are adopting and echoing Russia and China's foreign relations mantra: UN Charter, Rule of Law, pursuit of peace through mutual development and fair trade. Then we have the floating by Qatar of a new Middle East Coalition aimed at containing Saudi, Zionistan and their patron the Outlaw US Empire. And there's much more all visible in the recent spate of conferences and Summits--the Multipolar World's rising and rapidly. Just think of the ASEAN nations viewing those two events and placing them within historical context--The Outlaw US Empire has lost much face over both incidents along with its continuing illegal operations and proxy wars.

The icing on the cake is the failed audit by the US War Department close on the heels of several reports indicting its gross corruption having led to its inability to win a conventional conflict with a peer nation--up to $10 Trillion wasted (given away to MIC and its elite owners) that if Chinese the managers would face death.

Yes, BigLie Media's howling. But when its baying's ignored and other sources looked into, the ongoing international sea-change can be seen gathering greater momentum. Interesting Times? You bet!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15, 2018 7:42:41 PM | 31

Erdogan is the boss in Turkey. He won.

He beat the Gulen operation in the field.

Now he needs the symbolic head of that operation, to finally claim victory.

Otherwise it's all a bit unrequited and frustrating and not a fully satisfying victory.

Who's going to lead Sunni Islam, after it's just been destroying itself over so many many years.

Wahabbis, Gulenists, etc

No.

It can only be the Saudis or the Turks.

So, it's the Turks.

Posted by: Noggin the Nog | Nov 15, 2018 7:49:42 PM | 32

JR 27
'Look at Golan Heights. Not annexed, but controlled by Israel for many years with no end in sight.'

Israel effectively annexed the Syrian Golan Heights in 1981.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/1214.html

Posted by: metni | Nov 15, 2018 9:18:02 PM | 33

Jackrabbit @15,

I take it that because there's a video of the murder, the Saudis can't risk misrepresenting events too obviously. That would merely incentive a selected leak or two that shows them to be lying yet again.

Posted by: WJ | Nov 15, 2018 9:34:34 PM | 34

Laguerre @ 22: Gülen could have a lot to say about Graham Fuller and the CIA, and Erdogan might start to like him if he starts singing about them both. Ankara has an arrest warrant out for Fuller himself.

Graham E Fuller, "Why did Turkey Issue an Arrest Warrant Against Me?"
https://grahamefuller.com/tag/gulen/

F William Engdahl, "The CIA, Fetullah Gülen and Turkey’s Failed July 2016 Coup"
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-fetullah-gulen-and-turkeys-failed-july-2016-coup/5622321

Posted by: Jen | Nov 15, 2018 10:36:28 PM | 35

@35 jen... i liked what graham e fuller had to say about the kashoggi death and the dynamic in the mid east with turkey, qatar, iran and ksa... i thought it was worth reading..
https://grahamefuller.com/the-geopolitics-of-the-khashoggi-murder/

Posted by: james | Nov 15, 2018 11:20:03 PM | 36

The impression that Erdogan has still not closed the deal off makes me think he is over-leveraging. He should simply choose one or two areas and close the deal; Gullen, kurds, Turkish lira, helping Qatar-he can't solve all his problems with Khashoggi case. Plus the fact that he is leaking things bit by bit weakens his case.

Posted by: Bilal | Nov 15, 2018 11:21:43 PM | 37

@ToivoS | Nov 15, 2018 6:12:19 PM | 24

a #15 asks: Why the farce for the media that everyone cares about who ordered what in Saudi Arabia?

I too had that question. I think it comes down to the fact that Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post.

My theory is that the Khashoggi family has been keeping the murder of Jamal in the news. The BDS (boycott, divestment, sanctions) movement is affecting the Washington Post, and is really hurting their finances. (And the finances of the New York Times as well.) The Posties are the bribed tools of the wealthy family.

Posted by: Cyril | Nov 15, 2018 11:33:34 PM | 38

@ToivoS | Nov 15, 2018 6:12:19 PM | 24

a #15 asks: Why the farce for the media that everyone cares about who ordered what in Saudi Arabia?

I too had that question. I think it comes down to the fact that Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post.

My theory is that the Khashoggi family has been keeping the murder of Jamal in the news. The BDS (boycott, divestment, sanctions) movement is affecting the Washington Post, and is really hurting their finances. (And the finances of the New York Times as well.) The Posties are the bribed tools of the wealthy family.

Posted by: Cyril | Nov 15, 2018 11:43:50 PM | 39

Posted by: metni | Nov 15, 2018 9:18:02 PM | 33

UN rejects Israel's claim over Syria's Golan Heights (2016)

Israel's annexation of the Golan has never been recognised by the international community.

Even the United States doesn't recognize Golan Heights as part of Israel.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16, 2018 12:39:05 AM | 40

The farcical Skripals affair and the US/EU tiptoeing around the Khoshoggi murder to please MbS and the zio-masters make a striking contrast to the ongoing persecution of Julian Assange, the great living journalist and truth seeker.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-15/assange-indictment-doj-may-trigger-extradition-united-states-according-recent

"The exact charges Justice Department might pursue remain unclear, but they may involve the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the disclosure of national defense-related information."

This is the same corrupt DOJ that has been unwilling to punish Clintons for the treasonous Uranium One affair.
The illegal use of servers by Mrs. Clinton, which resulted in a long-term and massive spill of the highly classified information, constitutes the real case of "the disclosure of national defense-related information". For some reason the DOJ is totally passive towards the crime. Patsies.

And yet the DOJ is squealing about "national defense-related information" in relation to a non-US citizen Assange.

The corrupt DOJ also prefers to be blind and deaf with regard to the Awan family's criminal open access to the classified congressional information, courtesy Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
Naturally, the murder of Seth Rich is of no interest for the DOJ. The Seth Rich case is "managed" (buried) by Debbie's brother Steven Wasserman.

The midgets and eunuchs of MSM will never show solidarity with Assange because the principal criminals of our times are in charge both in the US and the UK. And these principal criminals hate Assange viscerally.

Meanwhile, the patented scoundrel Bill Browder, who is on Interpol wanted list, was interviewed by the US presstitutes re the Khoshoggi murder.

Posted by: Anya | Nov 16, 2018 1:32:06 AM | 41


THE KHASHOGGI CASE – ERDOGAN’S PROOF THAT KHASHOGGI IS DEAD AND EVERYTHING ELSE THE TURKS HAVE RELEASED IS FALSE
http://johnhelmer.net/the-khashoggi-case-erdogans-proof-that-khashoggi-is-dead-and-everything-else-the-turks-have-released-is-false/

Anyone who talks about Saudi without mentioning Yemen has completely missed the real news (or is deliberately diverting our attention).

Posted by: Michael Droy | Nov 16, 2018 4:27:51 AM | 42

I can't make the link work about Gülen as a deep state asset.
i recall that the Gulen network consisted of much more than schools and that it was infiltrated deeply in the turkish legal system and even in business to the extent that if you were ambitious you would try to connect to them. Erdogan was allied to them before he wasn't. In Europe Gülen, like the PKK, has a good reputation and is exempt from criticism. That is not justified. In a way I see the same mistake with criticism of Erdogan and MbS: the common approach of focusing on someone's personality obscures the real problems they face. MbS actions are incompetent ,but they are a response to real problems which another leader would also have to address. Focus on Erdogan's 'sultanesque' aspirations obscure the fact that he's working in a cutthroat environment where conspiracies are going on all the time.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Nov 16, 2018 4:31:00 AM | 43

It is all very sickening indeed. As the author notes, it is plainly obvious that MbS premeditated and ordered the assassination of Khashoggi despite this farcical, fictional Saudi "internal investigation" of itself. What a fucking farce this entire story has become. How the fuck can the Saudi regime "investigate itself!?" What a fucking joke...it is basically MbS giving the White House, the CIA, the Pentagon etc the one finger salute. With every passing week, the Saudis and their little bitches in the White House, Treasury, and Pentagon make up a new version of how Khashoggi was killed and who is to blame–all the while knowing full well that only that MbS is entirely, solely to blame for his brutal premeditated murder. The Pentagon and the US government are groveling little bitches under MbS's heel. It is amazing MbS is still in his leadership role after this debacle. The U.S. government has never looked more pathetic than in this hatchet job imbroglio. Trump should invite MbS over to the White House for a 'winning hearts and minds' gala party, to show everybody the US-Saudi alliance is now stronger than ever before!

Posted by: Deschutes | Nov 16, 2018 5:06:31 AM | 44

FYI, the link to https://www.williamengdahl.com is not working, i'm in Germany.

My browser says:

Your connection is not private
Attackers might be trying to steal your information from www.williamengdahl.com (for example, passwords, messages or credit cards). Learn more

anyone else getting this? its the second time a link in a MoA thread is giving me this message

Posted by: EtTuBrute | Nov 16, 2018 5:35:48 AM | 45

On one level, the Khashoggi matter is theater of the absurd. When will e.g. certain Canadian police officers be charged with the Khashoggi style murder of Jean Kambanda?

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Nov 16, 2018 5:50:01 AM | 46

ToivoS says:

We should also keep in mind that every one knows that it was the Saudis who carried out 911 but Washington and the MSN were willing to let that story go to sleep

hey, i'm kinda out of the loop, but i didn't know that! but since you're such a fart smeller, why don't you elaborate...

Posted by: john | Nov 16, 2018 5:56:08 AM | 47

As predicted yesterday Erdogan increases the pressure.

Turkey has second audio recording on Khashoggi killing: Columnist

Hürriyet columnist Abdulkadir Selvi reported on Nov. 16 that Turkey has more evidence, including a second, longer audio recording that contradicts with key findings of the Saudi public prosecutor’s indictment against the suspected murderers of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
...
“Khashoggi’s desperate attempts to survive could be heard in a seven minute audio recording. There is no hint of anyone trying to persuade him,” Selvi wrote Nov. 16.

“Turkish officials also did not confirm [Saudi prosecutor’s claim] that Khashoggi was killed after they gave him a fatal dose of drug. They say that he was strangulated with a rope or something like a plastic bag,” the columnist added.
...
Moreover, there are other hints suggesting that the murder was planned, including the fact that a forensics official whose expertise is dismembering bodies quickly was in the Saudi “hit squad,” as well as a Khashoggi lookalike who walked around security cameras in Istanbul after the murder to mislead Turkish police.

Selvi added that the strongest evidence about the premeditated nature of the killing could be seen in another audio recording.

The Turkish columnist had reported on Oct. 22 the existence of the first audio tape, which “proved that Khashoggi was strangulated in 7-8 minutes.”

Another tape, Selvi wrote Nov. 16, was recorded 15 minutes before Khashoggi arrived the consulate.

In this 15-minute recording, “the Saudi team discusses how to execute Khashoggi. They are reviewing their plan, which was previously prepared, and reminding themselves the duties of each member,” according to the columnist.

“There is also evidence from the period after the killing. Turkey has the international phone calls made by the 15-member Saudi hit squad,” he noted.

Meanwhile an official (absentee) funeral prayer for Khashoggi is held in Saudi Arabia. This means that there is no hope that his body will be recovered.

Posted by: b | Nov 16, 2018 6:15:44 AM | 48

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 15, 2018 4:36:52 PM | 12:

I find it strange that they admit to an intent to murder at all.

It was the bone saw. No way to explain why the forensics guy brought a bone saw except to admit that there was a plan to kill Khashoggi.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16, 2018 7:44:59 AM | 49

EtTuBrute #45

I get the same. Yes, it is happening more and more. Hard to be certain what is going on, hard to avoid drawing the conclusion the web is being more tightly monitored and supervised.

Posted by: Olhippie | Nov 16, 2018 7:47:49 AM | 50

If you get the message that a connexion is not private, then remove the s from https://.
That solves the error404 broken link problem as well
This does not work
https://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO9Aug2016.php
this works
http://www.williamengdahl.com/englishNEO9Aug2016.php

And this is a 404:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Peugeot_404_Super_Luxe_1965.jpg

Posted by: tuyzentfloot | Nov 16, 2018 7:56:51 AM | 51

@JR

Notwithstanding the withholding of external recognition of its annexation, the Zionists do not just control the Golan Heights, they exercise de facto sovereignty over the area even using it as a tourist attraction. The international community's non-endorsement of the unilateral land grab may provide a modicum of leverage for negotiations which will not happen until the IDF suffers a military defeat.

Posted by: metni | Nov 16, 2018 8:02:34 AM | 53

I guess we can assume that Erdogan didn't paid off.

Either he didn't get what he demanded or he was never interested in a pay-off because the geopolitical gain from 'sticking it' to the Saudi's was priceless.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16, 2018 8:07:37 AM | 54

didn't get

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16, 2018 8:08:19 AM | 55

when i use chrome, i get some kind of security message, url is not private or some such. doesn't happen for me using other browsers.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 16, 2018 9:08:30 AM | 56

@45

Using Opera (from France), I got the same issue, so I removed the "www." and I could access the site.

Hope that helps, sorry for off-topic

Posted by: brelle | Nov 16, 2018 9:12:46 AM | 57

the link to "deep state asset" works if you use "http://" instead of "https://"

Posted by: claudio | Nov 16, 2018 9:29:21 AM | 58

The US is reluctant to upset MbS over the Khashoggi murder, even if the US reputation as a "beacon of democracy" gets mortally damaged by the protection of a tender friendships between the influential zionist Jared Kushner and the authoritarian Wahhabist MbS.

Meanwhile, the Zionized USA (ZUSA) has been preparing for the capture and torture of Assange: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50603.htm

“We all know why the British have that embassy ringed. It’s to snatch him and to turn him over to the United States. If that happens, the CIA and the FBI are both going to be on that plane ... They will bring him back to the United States in chains because that’s what they do.

The FBI and CIA will interrogate and torture Assange to try to obtain information that would allow them to bring Wikileaks down. They want to know about security files for example. They want to know about the inner processes and workings of Wikileaks. They want access to the knowledge that’s inside Julian’s brain. And they will torture him. And they will interrogate him in order to attempt to get that."

Paul Craig Roberts: "The duplicitous US Department of Justice (sic) has a secret indictment of Julian Assange that was revealed by a cut and paste error. The ACLU describes the indictment as “unprecedented and unconstitutional.” But this won’t stop the criminal organization that is the US government from breaking all laws and the US Constitution in order to exact revenge on Assange for publishing leaked documents proving the criminality and inhumanity of the US government:" https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-16/copy-paste-error-reveals-assange-already-facing-us-indictment

The US Constitution has been defiled and degraded by the Cheney & Co to a funny piece of paper. The DOJ has been working for the traitors.

Posted by: Anya | Nov 16, 2018 9:34:31 AM | 59

Funny how the comments by "vanessa", "leon" and "danny" all come from the same British IP address.

"leon" and "danny" defend Netanyahoo in the previous post while "vanessa" now defends the outrageous crimes of the clown prince especially his attempt to create a genocide in Yemen by blockade and famine.

In previous posts there are also "barbara", "danny" again, "lilith", "adam", "simple simon", "noam" coming from another distinct IP address in Britain.

All provide pro-Netanyahoo talking points.

Interesting that the same troll outlet provides public relation spam for the Zionist entity and Saudi Barbaria.

It will now make "poof" and all their comments will be gone ...

Posted by: b | Nov 16, 2018 10:52:02 AM | 60

claudio @58

Thank you for the corrected link which I will embed below for easy access.

Gülen and his network of schools in Turkey, now closed, and in Central Asia are a major deep state asset.

Posted by: Hal C | Nov 16, 2018 11:01:37 AM | 61

@60 That IP address is probably the Tommy Cooper home for retired English comedians. But I think those posts are supposed to be anti-Zionist in a roundabout kind of way.

Posted by: dh | Nov 16, 2018 11:08:20 AM | 62

erdogan is "the help". he is of strategic use for now but can be couped out at some point if the deep statists really want it. the saudis are also "frenemy" assets and mostly subordinate but they have the oil embargo and financial divestment cards to play. any coups would be a monolithic gift at iran's doorstep. also a good way to annoy israel and egypt. hopefully the sultan enjoys this while it lasts since i don't see any more lucky breaks in his favor any time soon.

as for northern syria, it isn't really trump's to give. he won't want flag-draped coffins coming home for the defense of a crappy strip of land infested with jihadis and PKK types. who will help turkey keep that land? jordan? they can barely keep the lights on at this point. israel talks a lot of smack but that's a bit far from home for their overrated air force with all those shiny S300s hidden g-d knows where.

but then i'm just a casual observer. there are a lot of - to quote that famous nutter rumsfeld - "unknown unknowns".

Posted by: the pair | Nov 16, 2018 11:11:50 AM | 63

@james (36)

More on the mysterious subversive CIA asset Graham Fuller on Wiklileaks (searchable).
For example: https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/10/1092661_-alpha-insight-turkey-pkk-weekly-press-release-.html

Posted by: bjd | Nov 16, 2018 11:18:06 AM | 64

The clown is just going to throw 15 of his guys under the bus (chopping block) with no repercussions? One would think that display of loyality would cost the clown his life. SO @ 58.

Yes, the power of the Top Royals in a ‘pure - ish’ monarchy + the attendant hierarchical system allows it.

Ex. Prince Al Waleed who was ‘held up’ and imprisoned in the Palace Coup (some say tortured, idk), and who is not only extremely rich but also a major shareholder in various US biz, has now come out in support of MBS.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/saudi-prince-alwaleed---khashoggi-probe-will-exonerate-leader-10897132

KSA is getting close to crunch time. The horror for them is that all of the top-class (about 40K royals / connected-to + in important gvmt-commercial posts - some say only 35K - I prefer a much wider number, say even a million or more..) cannot keep their income / status, plus furnishing the trickle-down needed to keep the ppl from revolting murderously. Every time they tried to stiff the poor, who are *extremely* poor (the slums of Riyad are something to behold), with some less re-distrib or some ‘burden’, they have had to backtrack. (It works in the USA, why not here? They moan..)

One effort by MBS was to allow women to drive, thus lowering ‘rich’ families expenditures for paying (mainly) Filipino male drivers, who could be terminated / expelled, thus lowering the ‘stipends .. remittances ..pay outs’ these families claim. Of course it is a tiny drop in the bucket and women are not keen, because, ha, if you can’t go out without supervision by a male relative breathing over your shoulder, there is no point in ‘driving’..better to swear at some lackey and kick his shins with designer shoes.

Proposals re. ‘reform’ have been the same since 20 years at least, all are attempts to attract foreign investment, approval, links and ties, new ‘something’, cosmetic in the main. KSA usually ends up by paying too much for these forays, via stupidity, a need to appear ‘modern’…etc., to show goodwill to their masters who mock them behind their backs.

As the situation becomes more dire, more strong-arm, radical, innovative (not) strands are championed or accepted thru the positions of the likes of MBS - there is no other hope...

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 16, 2018 11:28:34 AM | 65

@Jackrabbit #12: "I find it strange that they admit to an intent to murder at all.

You haven't been paying attention then. Erdogan has it all on tape and even Bloody Gina has heard it and agrees that it was a planned hit.

Posted by: Mike | Nov 16, 2018 11:37:37 AM | 66

The Turkish Drip continually reminds all that the evidence it says it has proves premeditation and thus authorization by The Boss cannot be erased by any amount of US government or BigLie Media spin, making the attempted Cover-up untenable. That a 2nd tape's existence is now admitted, and that it covers the time period prior to Khashoggi's entering the Consulate, the assumption that Turkey bugged the Consulate seems confirmed, which is extremely bad news for the Outlaw US Empire and MbS. And if it proves role rehearsal by the hit team, then there's nothing that can salvage the attempted cover-up while more weight's provided for those wanting to end the Yemini slaughter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 16, 2018 12:24:37 PM | 67

@42 michael droy... thanks for that...it is not written by john helmer, but by a guest author most likely from greece or cyprus.. who someone from greece or cyprus possibly have an axe to grind with the president of turkey? it was a good story at any rate.. i especially liked this line : " If Khashoggi’s death was Saudi state murder, Erdogan’s game is Turkish state extortion." both are crimes, lol..

@54 jackrabbit quote : " Either he didn't get what he demanded or he was never interested in a pay-off because the geopolitical gain from 'sticking it' to the Saudi's was priceless." obviously erdogan wants turkey to be the beacon of light shining out on the sunni world.. he is essentially saying turkey is above what ksa represents.. read @64 noirettes post for more proof, lol..

@60 b... glad you are looking at ip addresses, as opposed to names! the ip address of a troll factory is especially handy if you are able to ban it.. i'm surprised they haven't used a scrambler..

@63 bjd.. thanks.. i have been following fuller for the past 1-2 years.. i don't know if he still teaches at sfu up on burnaby mtn in vancouver area, but he was teaching their until fairly recently.. he claims he hasn't worked for the cia for over 30 years, but of course anything anyone says is subject to question, especially someone who worked or works for the cia! quote from the wikileaks article you share.. these are good questions that will probably remain unanswered..

"In addition, the author of the Washington Post article could have
interviewed more people not Just Graham Fuller, author of The Future of
Political Islam, an ex-CIA agent and former CIA station chief in
Afghanistan, and a favorable voice for the movement to see if Fuller's
assertions are relevant or not. It seems Mr. Fuller explicitly denies CIA
connections with Gulenists' missionaries. Further, Fuller claims that he
has no knowledge about the Gulenist movement, but then later he adds that
he did write a letter to the FBI in 2006 saying that Mr. Gulen is not a
danger to US security and urging the government not to deport him to his
native country of Turkey. If Graham Fuller does not know much about Gulen,
then why would he write a letter to the FBI to say that he is not a danger
to American security or to argue against his extradition? Why would he
give a free ride to Gulenists and to Gulen?"

Posted by: james | Nov 16, 2018 12:25:21 PM | 68

i guess my response will have to wait until my comment is released...

Posted by: james | Nov 16, 2018 12:26:02 PM | 69

karlof1 (66):
"The Boss cannot be erased by any amount of US government or BigLie Media spin, making the attempted Cover-up untenable."

The Khashoggi murder makes a great counterpoint to the Skripals' affair. Where is the righteous EU imposing draconian sanctions on the Saudi Arabia in lieu of the firm evidence of the premeditated (and clown prince MbS-sanctioned) murder of the journalist in a NATO country?

US President Donald Trump, French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and British Prime Minister Theresa May were super-quick at condemning Russia for the alleged (ALLEGED) poisoning of Skripals (the daddy Skripal is a known collaborator with M16) and at sanctioning the RF, for the detriment of European businesses. Where are these big shots (and their big mouths) to castigate the Saudis?

The idiotic Gavin Williamson should be asked every time he shows up outside his residence about his, Gavin Williamson, attitude towards the accomplished murder of the journalist by the Saudi-sponsored team of killers.

Posted by: Anya | Nov 16, 2018 1:44:26 PM | 70

This news report says that Turkey shared "all the evidence" with CIA Director Gina Haspel, including:

"Video images and audio tapes as well as evidence gathered from the consulate and the consul’s residence".
So USA (and therefore KSA) should have known of all the evidence Turkey had by October 22nd or 23rd.

On Nov. 10th Erdogan said that he shared info with other countries as well.

But now we are told that there is another tape that contradicts the Saudi version. Why would the Saudis put out a story that doesn't match the info provided to USA? Did Turkey withheld info to USA? or did USA withheld info to KSA? Or is there no new tape, just an effort to keep the story alive?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16, 2018 2:22:23 PM | 71

Anya @68--

Yes, certainly, as I alluded to @31. Now we get to tie in Assange's dilemma and how the Outlaw US Empire would love to see him Khashoggied.

IMO, even if it was legally possible, extraditing Fethullah Gülen would no longer be enough to turn off the Turkish Drip as Erdogan has more than MbS and Trump's balls in a vise--all Saudi supporters are threatened. Nor do I think it's possible to walk-back any of this affair regardless of how greatly that's desired--the cat's body parts are out of the bag and spread worldwide. Ironically, the only mantra making sense going forward is MbS Must Go, although I doubt international pressure will be sufficient to make MbS abdicate--would he kill his father to keep him from removing him as Crown Prince; and if he did, how much authority/right to govern would he be able to claim or would a revolt quickly materialize?

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 16, 2018 2:32:55 PM | 72

JR @69--

If we take the Turks having bugged the Consulate as a given, then there would certainly be another tape, and probably even more tapes. I doubt Erdogan shared all with his tormentors at the Outlaw US Empire as he would know such info would likely be given to Saudi to properly tailor the cover-up. Then there's the intercepted overseas phone conversations we're told also exist to affirm the tape's contents--Tell your boss the deed is done--is pretty damning evidence of MbS's complicity and stupidity. Hariri's kidnapping raised no similar ruckus, although there were rumors he'd been Khashoggied. And since bugging the Consulate seems a certainty, what about other recordings that deal with the initial preliminaries to the event that occurred days prior that likely exist? IMO, Erdogan has all aces and a Royal Flush up his sleeve. Perhaps he seeks a judgement by the Umma that Saudi's no longer competent to be the protectors of the Holy Cities and proclaims Turkey to be Islam's leader and new Custodian? Whatever he now wants, it's far more than just Fethullah Gülen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 16, 2018 2:51:13 PM | 73

i think the plan is to try to isolate mbs by going after his main advisor - Saud al-Qahtani.. that is the cia/usa plan... apparently ksa has a different list/agenda which explains why he is not on ksa list, but on usa list.. either way, erdo isn't going to be satisfied until he is in control of the sunni world and including mecca and medina holy sites... i can't understand how these sites can be holy when the leadership of the sunni world have done exact opposite of what mohammad would have authorized.. they are giving islam a bad name as i see it, much like the vatican does with christianity and israel does with judaism...

Posted by: james | Nov 16, 2018 3:27:11 PM | 74

@ James 74

Actually, the Sauds are doing exactly what Muhammed commanded. Read the Koran.

Or go here –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

or here –
https://thereligionofpeace.com/

Posted by: AntiSpin | Nov 16, 2018 6:49:16 PM | 75

Bezos strikes! Washington Post joins the Turkish Drip. New leaks implicate MbS's brother Khalid and stipulate the existence of further intercepts akin to those possessed by Turkey. Also today, the US Senate introduced legislation to stop support for Saudi's Yemeni Genocide. Given the damning CIA assessment, I don't see how Trump can continue to help MbS's cover-up.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 16, 2018 7:08:05 PM | 76

@75 antispin.. as you know - the devil is in the details... i have read different interpretations of the koran... everyone thinks they have the right interpretation.. they don't, but it is especially obvious with this headchopping cult of ksa.. they are one whacked out crazed cult that has been allowed to get out of hand thanks a number of external factors, including encouragement from the war party - usa/israel... i hope the madness stops, but i am not counting on it right away...

@ 76 karlof1... wapo as publication for the cia.. sounds about right... so cia has an open voice in the wapo.. good.. helps to know what their game plan is.. i hope bezos makes a lot of money off the cia.. cia is out to get trump.. that is what it looks like to me... i think this is why i have one soft spot for trump.. i hope he can shed more light on just how fucked up that organ of the us state is..

Posted by: james | Nov 16, 2018 8:38:52 PM | 77

Trump's CIA led be Gina Haspell Trump's hand-picked spy chief has concluded that binSawman is responsible for the hit on Khashoggi, but Trump is still in denial because his buddy Netanyahoo urged him to back binSawman.

CIA CONFIRMS MBS ORDERED HIT

Posted by: Circe | Nov 16, 2018 11:29:41 PM | 78

WaPo: CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination

In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence. Khalid told Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to The Washington Post, that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.

It is not clear if Khalid knew that Khashoggi would be killed, but he made the call at his brother’s direction, according to the people familiar with the call, which was intercepted by U.S. intelligence.
...
CIA analysts believe [MbS] has a firm grip on power and is not in danger of losing his status as heir to the throne despite the Khashoggi scandal. “The general agreement is that he is likely to survive,” the official said, adding that Mohammed’s role as the future Saudi king is “taken for granted.”
...
President Trump has resisted pinning the blame for the killing on Mohammed, who enjoys a close relationship with Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser. Privately, aides said, Trump has been shown evidence of the prince’s involvement but remains skeptical that Mohammed ordered the killing.
...
Among the intelligence assembled by the CIA is an audio recording from a listening device that the Turks placed inside the Saudi consulate, according to the people familiar with the matter. The Turks gave the CIA a copy of that audio, and the agency’s director, Gina Haspel, has listened to it.
...
Trump has told senior White House officials that he wants Mohammed to remain in power because Saudi Arabia helps to check Iran, which the administration considers its top security challenge in the Middle East. He has said that he does not want the controversy over Khashoggi’s death to impede oil production by the kingdom.
...
A theory the CIA has developed is that Mohammed believed Khashoggi was a dangerous Islamist who was too sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood, according to people familiar with the assessment. Days after Khashoggi disappeared, Mohammed relayed that view in a phone call with Kushner and John Bolton, the national security adviser, who has long opposed the Brotherhood and seen it as a regional security threat.

Posted by: b | Nov 17, 2018 12:55:15 AM | 79

that looks like an open feud between the cia and trump at this point..

Posted by: james | Nov 17, 2018 1:00:59 AM | 80

Well, geez. So let’s be reminded that the WH can pull a reporter’s pass but CNN can’t pull Trump’s license to occupy the Oval Office. Simple enforcement of the power structure. Can’t find much sympathy for the sniveling weasels who willingly subverted an entire industry expecting to bask in the limelight of the anointed and revel in the task of promulgating the divine light to their monarch’s subjects as apostles of the imperial elite. Piss on their masthead.

Speaking of power structures, the Ricardel re-assignment carries far more consequential value than the Acosta jerk. Melania Trump carries the banner of anti-bullying. So perhaps not unreasonable that she would be upset with Mira Ricardel trying to shoehorn National Security Council staff into the First Lady’s plane on the trip to Africa, despite the seats being allocated to press.

I suspect there is more to the story. Ricardel distinguished herself supporting John Bolton’s push to axe the WH cyber security adviser with an eye to potentially assume that role herself, replacing a 25-year NSA veteran. Even at the executive level, putting a career power slut in charge of the NSA grand hoover and national firewalls is a mistake.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bolton-pushes-to-abolish-white-house-cyber-role-as-dems-fear-foreign-hackers

Methinks Ms. Ricardel, who has apparently turned down an ambassadorship to Estonia as a consolation prize, grew a bit too big for her britches. So Melania managed to oust one of Bolton’s lieutenants, speaking of power structures. Brava!

Posted by: Stumpy | Nov 17, 2018 1:06:11 AM | 81

The CIA did brief a wide range of media about its "MbS is guilty" conclusion.
AP, WSJ and NBC all have stories about this.

Trump and Bolton must be furious that the CIA is running against their line but the CIA wants MbN back as clown prince and will try a lot to achieve that.

Posted by: b | Nov 17, 2018 2:00:20 AM | 82

cia wanted clinton in power too it would seem... such is life... blame that on the ruskies, lol...

Posted by: james | Nov 17, 2018 2:13:23 AM | 83

@ToivoS 24: "We should also keep in mind that every one knows that it was the Saudis who carried out 911". Not so. Most who really study the matter understand that it was a false-flag. Many suspect that the zionists, in both Palestine and USAmerica were the originators of the entire atrocity, for purposes of global realpolitik, to defend the continuing existence of the doomed apartheid ziP, the zioentity-in-Palestine. The - relatively-marginal - Saudi connection is now being used as a decoy by those busy with the essential rear-guard part of the original plot: defending the official cospithirry from truth-seekers, after the event. You appear to have fallen for that rear-guard scam, T; unless you're doing hasbarollocks/hasbarordure? :)

Posted by: Rhisiart Gwilym | Nov 17, 2018 3:43:29 AM | 84

1) Khalid was told to leave the US quickly after the hit, just as the 911 teams
2) One need to replace the Brexit somewhere in the developments in the MSM to understand the attitude of different govs in the story. France (and Russia?) trying badly to get the benefits.

Posted by: Mina | Nov 17, 2018 4:29:50 AM | 85

So the CIA has found a replacement for MaBuS.

MaBuS, as you remember, extorted billions from many other oil princes and they are still out there
ready for vengeance.

It would appear that the CIA has found a Saudi leader waiting in the wings whom they will support after a bloody coup.

MaBuS won't be missed. The US Senate, all 100 hands, will be unanimous in support of his disappearance.

Posted by: librul | Nov 17, 2018 8:55:26 AM | 86

@81

I know your comment is ot, but I just need to make this point. Ricardel may have been fired from her post with NSA, but she is being reassigned to another position in the Trump admin which demonstrates how much pull Bolton has with Trump. Wifey, not as much, since the statement from her office clearly implies that she wanted her gone as in she no longer deserves the honor to serve.... Melania must have discussed with Trump wanting Ricardel out beforehand, and then made the public statement to force his hand. If he really valued her judgment, he would have acted without her having to upstage him this way.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 17, 2018 10:06:51 AM | 87

Meanwhile US kill 100s in Syria this week

US Airstrikes Killed Over 100 Civilians in Eastern Syria This Week
http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=106787

If Russia really were helping Assad, the S300 would have shot down these terrorists once and for all.

Posted by: Zanon | Nov 17, 2018 10:31:31 AM | 88

addendum to @86,

How will the assassination of MaBuS be carried out?
Will the Yemen Houthis be the patsies?
Blow up MBS while there is a Houthi missile attack?
Fake a Houthi missile attack?

Watch "Yemen’s Houthi rebels launch ballistic missile towards Riyadh"
The missiles look like comets as they trail out towards Riyadh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4tvSxBQJAE

Posted by: librul | Nov 17, 2018 11:14:33 AM | 89

You bet it, the French gov radios did not report on the CIA accusations against MbS

Posted by: Mina | Nov 17, 2018 1:26:07 PM | 90

@Circe and b — apologies for posting on wrong thread:(

Posted by: Stumpy | Nov 17, 2018 5:49:47 PM | 91

wait for it... trump is going to determine in 2 days who killed kashoggi.. i am sure he is, lol... now that the cia is saying who, trump is going to have to come up with a better sales pitch on who killed kashoggi.. whatever trump does, he will not be biting the hand that feeds him!!

Posted by: james | Nov 17, 2018 8:06:48 PM | 92

@james | Nov 16, 2018 12:25:21 PM | 68

glad you are looking at ip addresses, as opposed to names! the ip address of a troll factory is especially handy if you are able to ban it.. i'm surprised they haven't used a scrambler..

So you are advising the trolls to use a scrambler? (I won't mention the proper technical term.)

Many comments you and Peter AU 1 make help the Zionists as much as they pretend to castigate them. Peter wants to nuke Iran. I have asked him before (he refused to answer) and so I am asking you now, are you secretly a Zionist?

Posted by: Cyril | Nov 17, 2018 11:50:46 PM | 93

cyril - legitimate question - are you an idiot? that's your answer right their..

Posted by: james | Nov 18, 2018 12:17:24 PM | 94

from today's usa propaganda press release..

" QUESTION: Sure. Mr. Secretary, one of the things that the President points to in his statement is a $110 billion arms initiative. But by the State Department’s own record in October, only 14.5 billion has come through. When do you expect to see the rest of the money from that arms agreement?

SECRETARY POMPEO: Some of these contracts, defense contracts in particular, are complex, lengthy contract negotiations. We are working diligently on the remainder of those. We actually hope that number will end up being even greater. I couldn’t tell you when those negotiations will conclude, but we are very hopeful that each of those commitments that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia made to the United States to purchase equipment will be completed in a timely fashion.

MS NAUERT: Michel, with Al Hurra.

QUESTION: Yes, and thank you so much. Mr. Secretary, based on the President’s statement, moving forward, the relations with Saudi Arabia won’t be affected by the killing of Jamal Khashoggi? And how can you differentiate between the kingdom and the crown prince?

SECRETARY POMPEO: Yeah. So it’s a mean, nasty world out there, the Middle East in particular. There are important American interests, to keep the American people safe, to protect Americans – not only Americans who are here, but Americans who are traveling and working, doing business in the Middle East. It is the President’s obligation – indeed, the State Department’s duty as well – to ensure that we adopt policies that further America’s national security.

So as the President said today, the United States will continue to have a relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They are an important partner of ours. We will do that with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, its people. That is the commitment that the President made today. It’s that straightforward.

By the way, this is a long, historic commitment, and one that is absolutely vital to America’s national security."

https://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2018/11/287487.htm

no wonder the ordinary person thinks these meetings are worthless..

Posted by: james | Nov 20, 2018 8:39:07 PM | 95

@95 "So as the President said today, the United States will continue to have a relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They are an important partner of ours. We will do that with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, its people. That is the commitment that the President made today. It’s that straightforward.'

Can't get much clearer than that. Trump might as well say it doesn't matter how many people get dismembered, beheaded and bombed the relationship will continue.

Posted by: dh | Nov 20, 2018 9:35:40 PM | 96

@ james who wrote: " no wonder the ordinary person thinks these meetings are worthless.."

These meetings are priceless palace intrigue in spite of their message.

The wagons of dying empire are circling. The center of the circle seems to be US/Israel/SA/UK and then the next level is AU/EU/etc

It will be interesting to see on what basis war is created/maintained between dying empire and the rest of the world.

There are enough monkey wrenches in the global machinery to stop things up quite soon, IMO. If the US stock market continues to drop the negative sentiment could become contagious and .......the next phase begins

Coming soon (within 2 years)....Trump declares US bankruptcy as world goes off US dollar as Reserve Currency.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 20, 2018 9:45:05 PM | 97

@96 dh... clearly trump doesn't believe in human rights, unless maybe it involves him directly... perhaps he ought to consider converting to wahabbism and setting up one of his trump towers next to the chopping square... might be good for the macabre tourist biz and as you know - money is money... can't let a few horrible deaths interfere in the focus on money.. hey - it is the amerikkkan way, lol..

Posted by: james | Nov 20, 2018 9:47:25 PM | 98

@97 psychohistorian.. as kadath notes on another thread - syria thread... the usa still sits on a military machine that can do a huge amount of damage... having psychopaths with no concern for human rights at the top of it, can't bode well moving forward...oh, but trump was going to do things different, lol... well there might be a few hold outs who still believe that, but not most trump fans at this point.. trump is going to declare ww3, before he declares us bankruptcy, as i see it..

Posted by: james | Nov 20, 2018 9:50:52 PM | 99

@98 Well Democrats now have a majority in Congress. Does anybody think they will push for sanctions on Saudi Arabia?
I guess we might see a half-hearted effort.

Posted by: dh | Nov 20, 2018 10:03:34 PM | 100

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