Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 20, 2018

Saudis Admit Khashoggi Murder - Offer Weak Cover-Up

The Saudi King Salman was told to keep his son, Mohammad bin Salman, in the position of clown prince. It is widely assumed that MbS, the clown prince, ordered to kill Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. The Saudis now admit that Khashoggi was murdered. Two of the clown prince's bootlickers are offered as sacrificial pawns. 


Flag of Saudi Arabia - Old Style

After seventeen days of claiming that Khashoggi left the consulate alive, the Saudis acknowledge that he was killed there. But they keep lying about what actually happened:

In a statement issued early Saturday morning in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, the Saudis claimed that some number of unnamed “suspects” had traveled to the consulate to meet with Khashoggi, “as there were indications of the possibility of his returning” to Saudi Arabia. ...

“The discussions that took place . . . did not go as required and developed in a negative way,” the statement continued, leading to a “fight and a quarrel” and a “brawl” that led to Khashoggi’s death. The unnamed suspects then attempted “to conceal and cover what happened,” the Saudi government claimed, without elaborating.

"Khashoggi started a tussle with the fifteen men we sent to kindly ask him to come home. Unfortunately he stumbled, fell onto the chainsaw and severed his head."

The clown prince himself knew of course nothing about this, claim Saudi sources:

“There were no orders for them to kill him or even specifically kidnap him,” said the source, speaking on condition of anonymity and adding that there was a standing order to bring critics of the kingdom back to the country.
“MbS had no knowledge of this specific operation and certainly did not order a kidnapping or murder of anybody. He will have been aware of the general instruction to tell people to come back,” the source said, using the initials of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

The source said the whereabouts of Khashoggi’s body were unclear after it was handed over to a “local cooperator” but there was no sign of it at the consulate.

Well - nobody said that the body is at the consulate. It was suspected to be at the residency of the consul which is a different building the Turkish police was not allowed to search. Where was it buried?

Two advisors to the Saudi clown prince have been named as fall guys. They will be generously compensated. One is his media advisor Saud al Qahtani, the Steve Bannon at the crown prince's court;

SaadAbedine @SaadAbedine - 21:30 utc - 19 Oct 2018
#MBS’ very influential adviser in Royal Court, Saud Al Qahtani reacts to his ousting over @JKhashoggi’s murder with 2 tweets that look like an Academy Award acceptance speech .... “I extend my heartfelt thanks & gratitude to the #Saudi King & Crown Prince"

The other dude to find himself in a new villa is the deputy chief of intelligence, Major General Ahmad al-Assiri. A report on Friday in the New York Times had already named him as a likely fall guy.

There are also some peripheral casualties:

The Saudi government announced that it had detained 18 unnamed individuals and fired two top officials suspected of being involved in the operation.
...
The Saudi government said it would take another month to complete a full investigation, which would be overseen by Mohammed.

Mohammad will find that Mohammad had nothing to do with the issue. Does he really expect to get away with this? A lot depends on the Turkish president Erdogan. Professor Abukhalil suspects that a deal has been made:

asad abukhalil أسعد أبو خليل @asadabukhalil 4:21 utc - 20 Oct 2018
Suddenly, lo and behold, there is an unmistakable positive tone toward Turkey in Saudi regime media. A deal has been struck.

That is not for sure though and would be uncharacteristic for Erdogan. He likes to haggle and tries to draw out any deal as long as possible. We will know for sure in a few days. If the offered deal was insufficient the leaks from the Turkish side will restart. What are the Saudis and the U.S. willing to give to him?

It was the U.S. position that led the Saudis to change their story. On Thursday Trump's tone about the case had changed. He earlier had publicly doubted that anything had happened at all. After his meeting with Secretary of State Pompeo, who had just came back from Turkey and Saudi Arabia, Trump said he believed that Khashoggi was indeed dead. The Turks must have played the audio tape of the killing to Pompeo or to someone in his entourage. The Post reports:

CIA officials have listened to an audio recording that Turkish officials say proves the journalist was killed and dismembered by a team of Saudi agents inside the consulate, according to people familiar with the matter. If verified, the recording would make it difficult for the White House to accept the Saudi version that Khashoggi’s death was effectively an accident.

The 'deep state' in the U.S. and the Washington Post, where Khashoggi wrote his columns, will not be satisfied with the now offered cover up. They want to see MbS (and his friend Jared Kushner) go. The Zionist lobby and President Trump will want both to stay. But the public and Congress may not let go of the issue:

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, an influential Trump ally, said he doubted the latest admission from Saudi authorities.

"To say that I am sceptical of the new Saudi narrative about Mr Khashoggi is an understatement," he tweeted.

Bob Menendez, the top US Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, called for sanctions, saying "we need to keep up international pressure" on the kingdom.

The Saudis still need to come up with a better narrative. The current one is not sufficient. The most important question that should have been answered by now is: Where is the dismembered body?

Complicating the official narrative, Ali Shihabi, head of pro-Saudi think tank Arabia Foundation which is said to be close to the government, tweeted that "Khashoggi died from a chokehold during a physical altercation, not a fist fight", citing a senior Saudi source.

But pro-government Turkish media have repeatedly claimed that Khashoggi was tortured and decapitated by a Saudi hit squad inside the diplomatic mission, although Turkey has yet to divulge details of its investigation.

"Each successive narrative put out by the Saudis to explain what happened to Khashoggi has strained credulity," Kristian Ulrichsen, a fellow at Rice University's Baker Institute in the United States, told AFP.

"Especially because the Saudis are still unable or unwilling to produce the one piece of evidence -- a body -- that could provide a definitive answer one way or the other."

It is doubtful that today's developments are the end of this saga.

MbS is damaged goods. He will never again be seen as the 'reformer'. Western politicians and companies will try to avoid any association with him. Mohammad bin Salman may have been modernized the Saudi flag. But the evil of the Saudi rulers is still in full view.


Flag of Saudi Arabia - New Style

Posted by b on October 20, 2018 at 04:31 AM | Permalink

Comments
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Would you believe that Khashoggi left the consulate and is alive and well?
. . . well, would you believe we have no idea what happened or where he is?
. . . how about if a rouge group did something bad to him?
. . . would you believe that our staff just had a slight disagreement and he accidentally died?
. . . or would you believe that some heavyweight players are in this to guide their fiat currency in a way that will profit them at the expense of everyone else?

No love for Saudis; but they are set up to fail.

Posted by: Meshpal | Oct 20, 2018 4:57:36 AM | 1

Stihl and Husqvana are slow on the uptake. They make specialized de-limbing or pruning saws. They should have ensured their name is on the new Saudi flag.
Much appreciation for your work b. This Khasho business is as good as watching the jihadists fight it out in Idlib.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 5:08:26 AM | 2

Thank you ‘b’
That flag deffenatly sums the situation up in more way’s than one ! Were looking at a carve up of America,over-riding democracy!

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 5:09:21 AM | 3

Everything has a price so what does Turkey want ? I guess getting unilateral control in Idlib/northeast part of syria + making exchange rate of usd/try to circa 6 + removal of all US sanctions will be a fair deal. As it turning out, US has more problem to it explaining than MBS remaining in power.

Posted by: Kd | Oct 20, 2018 5:11:28 AM | 4

Trump: "...well, to set the record straight I spoke on the phone to MbS and he sounded really sincere, you know, that Khashoggi had walked out of the consulate and was fine. And I believe him. These accusations that Khashoggi was murdered!? More fake news!" Trump is a total fucking asshole.

Posted by: Deschutes | Oct 20, 2018 5:19:19 AM | 5

Kd 4

As to Idlib, since the Kasho chop chop, Syrian government have come on board the Russia Turk deal on Idlib. Sun Tzu vs the US barbarians.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 5:19:53 AM | 6

By far those Saudi's are the most repulsive and grotesque rulers on earth.

And know why the won't produce his body? Because they can't, most like it's already destroyed.

Posted by: Hass | Oct 20, 2018 5:22:59 AM | 7

The newest Saudi fairy tale is pathetic. They'll just keep flying baloons until one floats.
But, the real story is the U.S.'s equally pathetic response.
Apparently it's okay to cold bloodedly murder a reporter on foreign soil in their Turkish Embassy.
Trump true to form, with a crystal clear ambivalence to an ally's murder of one of its citizens.
The true U.S. is now in full view, no more bullshit/hypocracy...
Will Turkey release what they claim to be video and audio of the murder?

Posted by: V | Oct 20, 2018 5:43:03 AM | 8

V 8 "Will Turkey release what they claim to be video and audio of the murder?"

If the Turks hand back or kill their hostage before their demands are met, then they have have no more leverage. The full snuff movie will only be released if Trump and MBS do not pay the ransom.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 5:52:48 AM | 9

Posted by: Kd | Oct 20, 2018 5:11:28 AM | 4

Removal of Saudi proxies from Idlib.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 20, 2018 5:57:37 AM | 10

Trump is the main target here I feel, the timing of this just before mid term elections ! Qao bono who gains ?
Why has uk so publicly ‘conected’ Trumps name to this at a time uk needs freands and markets. Re Brixit. ? Deal with Dems ?
Who gave Khashoggi the fatal confidence to enter that embassy with out a solicitor.
The muck will be slowly stacked on to Trump until he has lost all credabilty. That’s the plan,
He may get desperate and create a major diversion in the global battle ground,
Putin will look on as his attackers implode!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 6:08:06 AM | 11

What could be worse than Saudi Arabia umm-ing and aahh-ing about their ever-changing narrative on what actually happened to Jamal Khashoggi in its consulate in Istanbul?

Answer is Bellingcrap manufacturing their own spin based on whatever The Powers That (Should Not) Be decide to throw at them.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/10/15/examining-cctv-videos-saudi-consulate-istanbul-connected-khashoggis-disappearance/

Posted by: Jen | Oct 20, 2018 6:18:01 AM | 12

Jen. Interesting that bellingcrap is pumping propaganda on the chop chop. Haven't bothered to read through the garbage but it does mean GHCQ is now in on the game.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 6:25:59 AM | 13

For GHCQ,I guess this is a continuation from the 'Steele dossier'.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 6:28:41 AM | 14

In the short run Khalid will replace MbS, but he will find it impossible to satisfy all the greedy members of the coalition of the friends of Syria, that is coalition of the sponsors of terrorism (Israel, US, Turkey, FUK). This is because he is inheriting a kingdom with depleted oil wells and already ruined finances. I give him 12-24 months before he also gets replaced. Perhaps the key problem is that Syria turned not be the loot, so the coalition members are now eating each other out. This is like sharks attacking each other when the pray manages to get away.

Posted by: Kiza | Oct 20, 2018 6:31:38 AM | 15

@ Kiza 16

Well observed, I think, though I doubt, MbS will be replaced. King mandating MbS for the investigation indicates to everybody, this is the line of defense guarding the King himself. Netanyahu may want to tip the throne now, Thany following perhaps, but none of the others, including Erdo.

Posted by: TomGard | Oct 20, 2018 7:19:48 AM | 16

What this whole saga represents is a complete denial of International law, morality and an acceptance from Western leaders [remember PM T Mays reception of MbS recently] of the power of money over basic decency, human rights and the rule of law in this world. All 5 veto wielding powers plus their friends notably Israel and Saudi Arabia] are above International law for all time, the rest better get tooled up and ready to fight, or accept their place in the world as fawning sycophants to those with the guns or the money.

Posted by: Harry Law | Oct 20, 2018 7:35:23 AM | 17

The expected supposed 'crackdown' will be turned into further proof of this great 'reformer'.
Let's count the days before 'even' the Washington Post falls in line to that narrative.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 7:37:21 AM | 18

@V 8)
I don't think Kashoggi was a US citizen. He had US residency.
Had he been a US citizen, the US' (even with dealer Trump) would have been severe and decisive.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 7:50:51 AM | 19

@Harry Law (18)

"remember PM T Mays reception of MbS recently"

Even starker than that:
Here's the royal great reformer with another royal great reformer:
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/contentassets/58030428fd254428a22ac71cbde9a115/5a9ff19f5cc4108e018b457d.png?preset=article-image

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 7:56:35 AM | 20

bjd@20, I don't think so, remember Rachel Corrie?

Posted by: Harry Law | Oct 20, 2018 8:00:08 AM | 21

Ok, here's a must read on who Kashoggi really was, from yesterday:

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/what-the-mainstream-media-isnt-telling-you-about-jamal-khashoggi/

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 8:03:47 AM | 22

@Harry Law (22)
Good point, I stand corrected (saddened for Rachel Corrie).

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 8:06:11 AM | 23

Harry Law | Oct 20, 2018 8:00:08 AM | 22

Indeed. Yes.
As I said; we're seeing the real U.S., stripped of all the bullshit!
Raw and unvarnished; its true uglyness revealed...

Posted by: V | Oct 20, 2018 8:11:28 AM | 24

Trump has it appears now been ‘advised’ to ‘find the fight explaination credible ‘ oh dear he just publicly again reduced his credabilty to junk status. That tells me like kashoggi he’s walking into this with fatal confidence! Deeper and deeper. What he should have done is name his adviser’s and let the blame lay where it should ! Plus ‘comment ‘ on the ex mi6 bbc interview implicating him!!
Watch this space !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 8:14:55 AM | 25

Now would be a perfect time for the Yemeni rebels to attack inside Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Chas | Oct 20, 2018 8:25:29 AM | 26

My response to the last post on ``Saudis stonewalling' has been docked, or perhaps caught up somewhere.
I have an occasional problem with Mr B's conclusions is that, sometimes they seem to be after-thoughts.
This one, he states that cocksure MBS will no longer be a prince among men, but a zombie flopping around the world stage in Arab robes.
Modi was censured by the West for the massacre of more than 1000 Muslims in Gujarat, and sanctioned by the West. Yet Washington fell over itself to embrace him after the right-wing victory, feting the tea-seller's son with a crowning accolade: an address of Congress! All is forgiven! Air kisses!
MBS is damaged goods? Nothing that money and power can't repair. King Salman and the haughty prince are fighting for outright survival.
Camel herders don't ride easily into that desert sunset to be replaced by other camel herders on their throne. They are more likely to get butchered like their high-profile victim.
Pere et fils will do all it takes to keep heads and crown on at home. Approval or disapproval abroad, especially the West, is fleeting.
Watch the dynamics between Salman/MBS with Erdogan and G20 in Buenos Aires.


Posted by: LittleWhiteCabbage | Oct 20, 2018 8:26:55 AM | 27

Let's forget about Khashoggi for a moment.

Country A preforms an intelligence operation that goes horribly wrong and attracts huge amounts of unwanted attention, while at the same time it is revealed that unfriendly intelligence agencies have ears inside supposedly safe areas. What would we count as normal reaction for Country A?

Fire all intelligence officers in charge of the operation and arrest the agents to see what went wrong? Go as high as the chief of intelligence since wiretapped consulates is a major security issue? Maybe fire the people in charce of containing the issue on world media, since they obviously failed?

All those actions are not about Khashoggi's murder. KSA simply punishes those that didn't do their jobs right.

Posted by: Noname | Oct 20, 2018 8:33:07 AM | 28


An autopsy revealed that the Israeli's shot a member of the Gaza flotilla, Furkan Dogan, a 19 year old American, in the face at point blank range in what a UN enquiry determined was "An extrajudicial execution." There were no calls for sanctions against Israel or condemnation of any kind in the US. There was no coverage of the boys murder whatsoever in the US mass media. He had no connections to the US government and its media. He simply did not matter.

Posted by: David | Oct 20, 2018 8:58:52 AM | 29

“The discussions that took place . . . did not go as required and developed in a negative way,” the statement continued, leading to a “fight and a quarrel” and a “brawl” that led to Khashoggi’s death. The unnamed suspects then attempted “to conceal and cover what happened,” the Saudi government claimed, without elaborating."
Ok I will buy that, Will you by that die Endlösung der Judenfrage, is the ultimate thruth? Or that he the third tower never fell, it just seems it it fell, its stil there , go and look..
Please all of us are not idiots, some are but not all!

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Oct 20, 2018 9:01:05 AM | 30

Actually I have wondered where the image of the hacksaw originated.
Would it not be much more efficient to just use and axe?
Such an axe, taken together with flogging canes used with such regularity in the beloved country of interest -- what do they remind me of?

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 9:17:14 AM | 31

This is also worth a re-read:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/saudi-evil/

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 9:24:01 AM | 32

I would call this the Kashoggi Identity. A gigantic butterfly effect I predict.

Posted by: steve | Oct 20, 2018 9:34:59 AM | 33

Turkey will explain to KSA what is meant by "al 3amr bil ma3ruf wal nahi 3an al munkar"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html
"Turkey will uncover the full details of Khashoggi's killing using all possible means, a spokesperson for Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) said."

Posted by: Mina | Oct 20, 2018 9:44:24 AM | 34

The 'Globalists' (U.S. Deep State, Neo-Liberal/Neo-Con puppets of international financial elites, etc.) are out for blood.

They have been against MbS ever since he came to power, as he represents a nationalist Saudi, rather than Saudi as a Globalist pawn. Kashoggi was a Globalist operative working to undermine MbS, which is why MbS went after him.

Now, with Kashoggi's murder, the Globalists see an opportunity to topple MbS, and they won't stop until that is accomplished.

The question is what will be the result. MbS won't go without a fight. Will the coming coup against MbS just be messy and weaken Saudi Arabia, or will it result in its break-up.

President Trump has already effectively lost one of his key Middle-East allies, and is now even more isolated.

And the Multi-Polar World watches with amusement as the two factions of the Western World, the Globalists and Authoritarian Nationalists (led by Trump), tear each other apart.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Oct 20, 2018 10:22:10 AM | 35

The Trump plan is to enforce a complete embargo on Iran's oil shipments next month. He has threatened to sanction on any country that continues to do business with Iran. He thinks that the hardship that Iran will endure is the ticket for chaos in that country resulting in regime change.

The only way that Trump's plan will work if is the Saudis pick up the slack and up their oil production to make up for Iranian shipments that comprise a significant chunk of ME exports. If the Saudis don't then an oil shock is likely to occur on such a scale that it might trigger a world-wide recession. Not something Trump cares to take responsibility for.

So trump has to kiss the Royal Saudi ass. He may talk about arms deals and other important commerce but his master plan for Iran is the real reason. In spite of all the cynicism, of which I am as guilty as anyone else, there are still a lot of people in the US that have had it with the totally amoral and self-serving way Trump is running the country. The total abdication of even a pretense to do the right thing is gutting whatever prestige the country has left.

Some people might be getting tired of winning.

Posted by: peter | Oct 20, 2018 10:35:55 AM | 36

The deep state still isn't a thing. There's just the state with political factions.

We do not know anything important until we know what Kashoggi said.

Saudi was always a US pawn. Globalism in practice is where billionaires of any nationality have more say than rabble like me. Saudi has always been globalist.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 20, 2018 10:38:53 AM | 37

"They" have a vision but no brain, no cameras in their embassies, no logical answers... You can walk in, be interrogated, have a fight with rogue criminals...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Vision_2030
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neom

The old king was watching Saudi TV, the prince was busy (doing what?)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-king-insight/as-khashoggi-crisis-grows-saudi-king-asserts-authority-checks-sons-power-sources-idUSKCN1MT1LF
"Initially the king, who has handed the day-to-day running of Saudi Arabia to his son, commonly known as MbS, was unaware of the extent of the crisis, according to two of the sources with knowledge of the Saudi royal court. That was partly because MbS aides had been directing the king to glowing news about the country on Saudi TV channels, the sources said." (... thanks to the Carlton deals?)

Degenerate no brainers...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/saudi-narrative-khashoggi-killing-changed-20-days-181020082300134.html

Posted by: Mina | Oct 20, 2018 10:48:04 AM | 38

The newest Saudi fairy tale is pathetic. They'll just keep flying baloons until one floats.
But, the real story is the U.S.'s equally pathetic response.
Apparently it's okay to cold bloodedly murder a reporter on foreign soil in their Turkish Embassy.
Posted by: V | Oct 20, 2018 5:43:03 AM | 8

Well, it is fairy tale. Nobody could or does doubt that, nor does anybody in SA seriously expect anybody to believe it. It is a diplomatic action in response to a political situation, nothing else. Measured on that basis, and bearing in mind what sort of a regime SA is, I find it an unexceptional response.

Comparing it with the British blurtations and flatulence regarding the Skripal fairy tale, the SA one wins an Oscar (but only because of the poor competition). All the British blurtations on that matter are so pathetic that the word "pathetic" is totally inadequate - no adequate word exists.

Britain is not the slightest tiniest bit less brutal or psychopathic or deranged or amoral or ruthless than Saudi Arabia, in fact probably far more so - they are just a little less crude in the execution, and a lot more sophisticated in covering it up.


As to the murder in the embassy aspect, it took place on Saudi sovereign territory NOT on Turkish sovereign territory. Murderer, victim and action were all exclusively under Saudi legal jurisdiction at the time of the murder (unlike the case of the Iranian Embassy in London and PC Fletcher, who was shot from an embassy window, therefore it involved both sovereignties).

I know of another instance of murder in an embassy quite a few decades ago, where the ambassador shot dead two people inside the embassy, one a national of the embassy state the other of the host state. The host state treated it as outside their legal jurisdiction (I personally know the lawyer for the prosecuting authority of the host state responsible at the time as a young lawyer, who was many years later a judge for the International Court of Justice). The ambassador returned to his country, and it was then legally a matter for his state (the death of the host country's citizen is another matter, that was an inter-state issue, but legally took place in the embassy's state). I won't name the countries concerned.

Posted by: BM | Oct 20, 2018 10:51:09 AM | 39

This is how 13th century monarchies resolve political remedy when usurpation of the crown is in play. This event shows the impotence of nation states to act while the cadre of international corporate operatives and their financial backers do business as usual. The removal of an irritant to one of the partners is seen as de rigueur under feudal practices and is only of concern as a public relations problem. A while back all the major players were locked up in a castle...er hotel and given their choice. Khashoggi will find rest in the next news cycle. To my thinking the Skirpals will still be in more play a month from now.

Posted by: BRF | Oct 20, 2018 10:56:28 AM | 40

@11

The muck will be slowly stacked on to Trump until he has lost all credabilty. That’s the plan...

Where have you been??? Trump has lost all credibility from the moment he opened his mouth in 2016! He doesn't need muck stacked against him; he's completely covered himself without help. This is a man with no sense of decency who aligns himself with Zionist criminals and Saw-di butchers; a man with zero compassion who lined his pockets with Zionist oligarchy and Saudi money. Quit blaming some dark conspiracy for your mangod's depravity.

-------

To those who brought up Rachel Corrie and Furkan Dogan, we should add the American JOURNALISTS Israel m..urdered as well as the Liberty incident. The gatekeeper media indeed reeks of staggering hypocrisy BUT I'll take this Sawdi f.ckup and the media's mostly honest reaction to it, and run with it! I'll take what I can get, but you are right in bringing up Zionist impunity at this time, it couldn't be more TIMELY to rub the media's nose in their staggering hypocrisy and double standard.

So the Sawdis are expecting us to believe black is white, and Trump forever the con, is already trying to sell their desert snakeoil that exonerates his bff M butcher S. There's just a few inconvenient details: you don't bring a forensic guy whose reputation was made cutting up bodies in 7 minutes, you don't bring a SAW to the brawl and if MbS were telling the truth, which stretches credulity into the realm of the absurd, about the original less barbaric intent, he should have no problem producing the remains. There is a) the forensic butcher b) the bone saw and c) depending on the state and location of the remains, the manner in which they pre-planned to disappear them.

It was all planned beforehand; it was not an interrogation or brawl gone awry, and they pre-planned the disappearance or disposal of the remains with expediency in mind. Trump is many things, but he ain't naive; he knows it was all planned; he knows MbS ordered the hit, and he's colluding in the cover up cause he's a hard-right Zionist a s s k i s s e r and MbS is the Zionists' man just as Trump is.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20, 2018 10:56:31 AM | 41

I suggest we get up a go-fund me or whatever it is, for Erdogan, the deal being to offer this fund as quid pro quo that he yes indeed reveal the truth based on the tapes etc (as stated see the Mina link to Aljazeera). This instead of his blackmailing the Saudis with more grisly details for Turkey's financial needs.* (*This proposed with a not smiling smiling.)

Obviously we are at a point where ANY bullshit is now a priori good to go as with Khashoggi fighting 15 men, 7 of them bodyguards to MbS, and one of them a highly placed doctor and interior minister with a bone saw, a "story" which Trump pronounced "credible" although he said Khash's death is "totally unacceptable," with a crocodile tear rolling down his cheek.

Posted by: Sid2 | Oct 20, 2018 11:09:32 AM | 42

For GHCQ,I guess this is a continuation from the 'Steele dossier'.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 6:28:41 AM | 15

Finding the British meddling in this affair is interesting, isn't it? And a few things in common what with Skripal/Steele/Russiagate. That intervention of the former MI6 chief definitely tends to leave us to believe that it was the British pulling the strings behind Khashoggigate rather than the CIA. The British puppetmaster were manipulating the CIA puppet, who used Khashoggi as their patsy. That way the British try to change the regime in SA without (they most dearly hope) endangering their beloved weapons sales to SA, for which they try to make the US the fall guy (please take note, SA!).

In the short run Khalid will replace MbS
Posted by: Kiza | Oct 20, 2018 6:31:38 AM | 16

I am starting to believe that perhaps Khalid will take over all of MbS's executive authority, while MbS remains untouched as crown prince. That means MbS no longer has executive authority to commit more of the same blunders as the last several years a very Putin-like solution, I would say. The CIA puppet remains out, regime-change operation failed. What effect Khalid has remains to be seen, but British/US influence will be reduced, and Russian influence enhanced, which is good for regional geopolitics. Will there be any change in Yemen? I hope so, but I don't hold my breath. MMaybe only after the cost to SA increases.

Posted by: BM | Oct 20, 2018 11:14:54 AM | 43

So the Sawdis (sic., nice one!) are expecting us to believe black is white
Posted by: Circe | Oct 20, 2018 10:56:31 AM | 41

So what's new? You'd have a hard time finding anything in the MSM that is not trying to persuade us that black is white and white is black, well lubricated with snake oil.

People are losing confidence in the snake oil though these days. And instead of developing a better snake oil, the MSM - egged on by the politicians - are adulterating the snake oil with cheap date-expired snake oil of an inferior brand to save money.

Posted by: BM | Oct 20, 2018 11:27:44 AM | 44

People are supposed to believe that it's typical for a consular office to have the tools needed to quickly dismember a body? You'd need to be at the Tom Friedman level of cognitive dysfunction to find that plausible.

Among all the comments about what Turkey wants to keep the evidence secret, I didn't notice the word "Qatar". Forcing Mohammad Bone Sawman to end the blockade, and attempts at diplomatic isolation, could be quite lucrative for Turkey. They'd help their ally, still get a pile of cash, and Saudi Barbaria can deny the implied guilt of having paid hush money.

Posted by: Jesrad | Oct 20, 2018 11:36:58 AM | 45

Circe @ 41
Ha ha if your asking where i’v been regarding trumps credabilty ! I carry no flag for trump ! Where the hell have you been or you would know that !
How ever much or little cred he’s got. This transcends mere party politics like him or hate him. ? You tell’n me killerys much better? Just don’t go there ! A rock and a hard place. I like your posts have defended them, had greaf for it too. But hey we can ever pathetically squabble or unite, be strong and deal with the massive problems Middle East, America uk the whole world face’s ! The flag I carry is for the world public against the curupt rich.
This blog is about the truth, so be a bit more carefull with your Critasism.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 11:39:17 AM | 46

So it's Sawdie Arabia now?

Posted by: CE | Oct 20, 2018 11:51:56 AM | 47

Time to change te name of this sorry excuse of a polity to Saw-dy Arabia ? Saudi Horrobia maybe ?

(Sorry if someone already suggested this. Currently I have no time to get thoroughly trough the comments, but I had to take this sh*t off from my chest) :P

Posted by: Colombianonymous | Oct 20, 2018 11:52:39 AM | 48

Good review of all the bullshit explanations since Oct 2 here:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/saudi-narrative-khashoggi-killing-changed-20-days-181020082300134.html

Posted by: Sid2 | Oct 20, 2018 11:53:20 AM | 49

@Colombianonymous|48: Same here lol I thought it was my original thought, but it's just a bit too obvious, isn't it? I think the additional e like in Sawdie makes it even better, but that depends on people's pronounciations... ;oP

Posted by: CE | Oct 20, 2018 11:59:56 AM | 50

The Khashoggi case, and its latest developments, raise some interesting points to ponder, and help us to make certain assumptions with some degree of certainty. If the WaPo and MSM are instruments of the 'deep state', we can assume that they wanted to embarrass MbS with a view to depose him. They engineered the event, and used the unwitting Muslim Brotherhood pawn, Jamal Khashoggi, as bait. I would not be surprised if unofficially they encouraged MbS to take action. Through the Brotherhood, they involved Erdogan, who took care of the consulate bugging. Trump is trying to win something from a bad situation, ie. large defence contracts in exchange for toning down the heat on MbS. The Turks, ever the merchants, are looking to strike a bargain with the Saudis, and possibly with the Americans too. How phony is their indignation, releasing rumours from unnamed sources, stoking the furore, waiting for the Saudis to play their hand, when all the while they supposedly have ironclad evidence? This from a state that has imprisoned, exiled, kidnapped, and made to disappear, countless journalists and political opponents. The WaPo and other minions of the deep state on the other hand, are morally outraged by the murder of one of their own, but conveniently ignore countless other atrocities of greater magnitude and amorality.

Just for the record, the unfortunate Jamal hails from a small village near Kayseri in Turkey.His unfortunate wife-to-be is also Turkish. Erdogan called him 'a good friend'. His grandfather, a muezzin, visited Medina and settled there. One of his father's brothers studied medicine and became court physician to king Faisal. This uncle's son, Adnan, was the renowned arms dealer. Another aunt married a certain Al Fayed, whose son Dodi was betrothed to Princess Diana. Jamal was a Muslim Brotherhood member from an early age, with ties to Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, when they served the Brotherhood's purpose. His mentor and friend was head of Saudi Intelligence till 9/11, and some of Jamal's circle were among those captured and heavily fined by MbS last year. He was definitely a shadowy figure in a murky world with possibly more than just a couple of allegiances. Why should he enter the consulate (particularly this one) to obtain documents freely available electronically or through proxy? He must have been enticed to an important 'meeting'- he just didn't expect to meet an interrogation hit squad.

For a clearer picture, ask who benefits?

Posted by: SPYRIDON POLITIS | Oct 20, 2018 12:01:19 PM | 51

The Saudi Chainsaw Massacre..

Is that too morbid? Well, i guess not even the harshest critics of Al Saud's could have produced such a sick story as this reality..

Dont want to disrespect the dead, but what a way to force a rift bewteen the Donald, Jared and their Saudi $ printers. But the poor Bibi!

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Oct 20, 2018 12:04:38 PM | 52

With all due respect for b's analysis, I cannot see MbS ordering the murder. His impetuousness, immaturity, arrogance and self-centeredness (and downright criminal behavior) are not proof of guilt in this case. Yet what we are hearing is that, because the members of the Saudi royal family have so consistently been dispicable and because such a murder would be in character with such people, MbS must be guilty.

As already mentioned in an earlier post, the murder is directly contrary to MbS's modus operandi (which would have had Khashoggi brought back to the Kingdom and dealt with there, as was done with so many others, sequestered at the Ritz Carlton -- this would have assured complete MbS control over Khashoggi and his fate).

Also, the deep and ever deeper resentment over MbS's high-handed ways has created a legion of malcontents (many right in the palace and at the top of the royal family -- recall MbS's fear of sleeping there any more) quite willing to frame him by arranging for the kidnap crew to gruesomely finish off Khashoggi in a way that could easily be used to smear MbS indelibly and lead to, at the least, his removal from power, at the most, his liquidation.

Thus, I still contend that MbS did NOT order the killing of Khasshoggi. In other words, his deninals may well be true. Further, everything about his reactions suggest that he has been both caught off guard and too inexperienced to be able to roll with the punches that came fast and furious. In other words (to mix metaphors), he found himself in well over his head and discovered that he never really learned how to swim.

Again, I return to Trump's initial declaration that it could have been rogue elements, which, in my opinion (given that Trump never has opinions, only what is whispered in his ear by the last person he spoke to), was probably what Jared told him, having gotten it from MbS. This had to be flushed down the memory hole, for it made obvious that MbS is no longer in full command or, worse, that there is a palace revolt germinating behind the scenes (thus, the House of Ibn Saud could finally be tumbling down).

This is all the more plausible that there are major players outside the Kingdom who would want to use the occasion to smear Jared and Tweetie Bird in the White House, whose close relations with MbS could then be used against them in a number of ways. (Recall the former head of British intelligence declaring to The Guardian that the murder could not have happened without a go-ahead from Trump all while praising the work of Turkish police and intelligence services with no evidence -- and surely no real knowledge -- of just how they are operating.) It would be a matter of -- so to speak -- killing three birds with one stone.

The Turks could be counted on to play along. Given their own vulnerabilities, the advantage that would accrue to them by participating in this would be a windfall for thim.

Posted by: RJPJR | Oct 20, 2018 12:09:21 PM | 53

Saudis is not defensable,but khagossi is not either.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 20, 2018 12:15:05 PM | 54

Whoa, this is almost literally a Chicago quote: "And then he ran into my knife; he ran into my knife ten times." What did Trump do again after getting off the plane in Riyadh? Classical Arab music? Ballet, like in Moscow? Ah I remember, a sword dance. He knows what kind of people they are, and Uncle Sam wants it this way so the Saudis can do his dirty work.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Oct 20, 2018 12:35:50 PM | 55

8

"Bmob the Gooks Ragheads for Jesus!"
Reverend Billy Graham Jr

On to Riyadh Tehran! Lu, lu, lu, lu, lu!

MbS is a 'shiney object de juer' to obscure the daily
perfidy and outraged headlines we would have with
revelations the Saudis paid Kushner $1B in commissions
for oiling the $100B US arms deal "and take Yemen too",
by investing that $1B in Brookfield-CCG to buy Kushner's
flopping bankrupt 666-5th Street, and now all the craven
swindlers who bought into the REIT are covering for KSA,
and that is the story Khashoggi was working on.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Oct 20, 2018 12:44:17 PM | 56

In an attempt to reach a concensus here, to avoid going over the same ground covered in b’s previous kashoggi post, that became tedious! As a few mentioned! My view is many are commentating showing they had’nt paid attention.
Let’s move this on!! Both we and even MSM pretty much agree on the facts ! We have established our list of suspects at the scene of the crime! What needs to be clarified is how high up the political pecking order this was planed and what was the grand motive! I ‘think’ I know but def need other opinions!
Why this is so so important ? To keep 2 steps ahead of world developments in these ultra serious times! (Not least for our own sanity)
So let’s focus, and cover the fresh ground And save ink !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 12:58:58 PM | 57

Let's put this in terms Americans can understand. Khashoggi was a player in the Saudi game of thrones who got caught on the wrong side and was dismembered. MBS is a Prince Joffrey who is a murdering psychopath who trusts only his own (bad) instincts. Khashoggi functioned as a supporter for the CIA wing of the Saudi royal family who the WaPo types would like to bring back to power. Supporters of this side are outraged (hypocritically, of course) and would like to paint Khashoggi as some kind of saint whose life is much more important than those other brown people who get killed each day by the war machine, using this excuse to get their guy in power. However, Israel/Trump/Adelson will stick with MBS unless they absolutely are forced to switch horses, but as usual, they'll probably be able to brazen this out and stick with their guy.

Thousands of people die under the hands of MBS, the US, the gulf monarchies, and their sycophants and this will not stop not matter what happens with the Khashoggi affair. From my perspective, MBS will make some symbolic changes and his murdering ways will likely continue unabated. This story is all window dressing.

Posted by: worldblee | Oct 20, 2018 1:08:22 PM | 58

Did Trump know before hand ? Kushner maybe ? C I A ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 1:10:44 PM | 59

@David | Oct 20, 2018 8:58:52 AM | 30

"An autopsy revealed that the Israeli's shot a member of the Gaza flotilla, Furkan Dogan, a 19 year old American, in the face at point blank range in what a UN enquiry determined was "An extrajudicial execution." There were no calls for sanctions against Israel or condemnation of any kind in the US."

Thank you for exposing the zionized US Congress and the zionized US presidents and for reminding about the Israeli murder of Furkan Dogan, the 19-year-old American citizen. There was also the 23-year-old American citizen Rachel Corrie murdered by the Jewish recipients of the billions and billions of dollars extracted from the US citizens' pockets.

The EU's sanctimonious vassals should be reminded of the murder of Furkan Dogan and Rachel Corrie every time the vassals attempt to bloviate about the Skripals' affair and bad Assad.

Posted by: Anya | Oct 20, 2018 1:22:39 PM | 60

57

The only 'fresh ground' this flaming post and the flaming post before it will find is more 'stress positioning' jibber-jabber and drink from the meme firehose 'waterboarding'. There is zero proof, zero facts. Story in a vacuum. White Helmets sans video. This is classic CIA viral marketing psyop. A core of truth, then onion layers of George R.R. Martinesque reverse narrative to bring excited readers from mundane 'a man walked into an embassy' to a pueriley bombastic 'THEN 15 THUGS BRUTALLY CHOPPED THE MAN UP!'

Just another Game of Thrones on the death march to Tehran.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Oct 20, 2018 1:30:47 PM | 61

Regarding the retired mi6 chef interviewed on radeo yesterday—- he stated crown prince would not have done that without permmison from trump !
Why did he mi6 guy want to implecate trump ?
Mi6, bbc and the Tory party are— Establisment— above politics ! All 3 groups would have cleared that speech?

If you send a group of heavyes to your embassy so as to detain and take back a dissident, why would you need a bone saw ? I ask to solve this if mbs knew then the brits say trump knew, if he knew is he a tricked fool or a fool in his own right ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 1:37:00 PM | 62

Maybe but your still reading and still posting, allso attempting to devalue the debate ! If your genuine take the night off

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 1:42:57 PM | 63

O k times up your too slow !
We got heckerler’s ha ha !
Let’s move on— mbs new, trump new. Trump was tricked into giving his aproval, by people who have had enough of hi style of leadership ! I’l through that one open !
But don’t take long, let’s all wake up and start moving along !
Q who could want to remove trump ? Go !

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 2:03:23 PM | 64

All of this of this inside information is coming from the Turkish press. Virtually every article. Despite that I believe their story. They have an ax to grind, no doubt about that. If it was in their interest we would know nothing other that this fellow disappeared.

The Saudis are looking at either replacing the Prince or lining up with Russia and China.

Russia and China offer a better deal for them. They can spend far less money on defense systems as the Russians will offer a far better price with less strings attached. The Saudis would not have to plow excess money in to T-bills anymore and could look for far better investment deals in other places with that money. The Chinese appear not to want anything but oil and resources. They appear to be far lest interested in the type of meddling the Empire loves.


The only high point for the Saudis sticking with the West is the looming war with their mortal enemy Iran. No Arab NATO is going to put a dent in Iran. Iran is a bridge to far for Israel and they would much rather have others do that fighting and dying for them. Europe has no stomach for taking on Iran. All that is left is the shock and awe type air campaign of the US and the Brits which would hurt Iran but would not be a spectacular success militarily, diplomatically, or politically.

The Saudis could play a big role in breaking the Anglo American Empire and that would be the smart move for them. Get the hell out of the way of the comingmushroom clouds between the West and Russia.


Posted by: dltravers | Oct 20, 2018 2:10:39 PM | 65

@53 ", I cannot see MbS ordering the murder. "
He has ordered a genocide, biochemical warfarr and famine and he is getting away with it. So why the hell not get rid of one measly presstitutes

Posted by: Occidentosis | Oct 20, 2018 2:11:22 PM | 66

@Jesrad | Oct 20, 2018 11:36:58 AM | 45

Mohammad Bone Sawman, the clown prince of Sawdie Arabia. I like it!

However, when the Fake News Media turns unanimously against someone or some country, I have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive. Or are they actually being honest this time, for a change?

Posted by: Cyril | Oct 20, 2018 2:38:16 PM | 67

@61

Still the barbarian's advocate, I see. Even if MbS was caught with the bone saw in hand, you'd be defending the basturd and screaming don't believe your lying eyes!

German scrabble or enabler of exculpatory hasbara?

Posted by: Circe | Oct 20, 2018 2:39:37 PM | 68

Well, I for one would like to thank the Saudis for finally clearing this up.

I'm not often in lockstep with my government's top officials, but I have to agree with their preliminary indications that the Saudi explanation-- while inexplicably belated-- has the ring of truth. It's so detailed and comprehensive that it ties everything up in a neat, simple package.

Obviously, this Kashoggi guy used the pretext of reporting to the Saudi embassy to obtain documentation for his upcoming marriage to pick a fight. Drunk, probably. And he had the bad judgment to show up just when the embassy had a roomful of distinguished visitors and guests!

Surely, no reasonable person would condemn the guests' alleged reaction to the belligerent Kashoggi-- that would be a deplorable instance of blaming the victim(s).

The details are still a bit sketchy, but this kind of accidental "one-punch" death happens every day! I use "one-punch" figuratively, of course. My guess is that there might not have been a fatal punch at all-- no, most likely Kashoggi lost his balance while throwing a wild haymaker, slipped, and banged his temple right on the bone saw sitting on the table.

Oh, and there's no need to go all Truthery and conspiracy-theory over that bone saw. There are a million good reason for it being there; for instance, the embassy was probably planning to invite local US visitors to a good old-fashioned Thanksgiving dinner next month, and the cook staff needed carving practice. Common sense, people!

I have seen no evidence to support this analysis, but I use the "17 intelligence-agency" standard-- i.e., I have High Confidence in my imagination.

So, let's all breath a sigh of relief! Surely, right-thinking people on all sides are relieved and gratified that the multi-million dollar arms sales that SA requires to implement its reformist foreign policy will continue uninterrupted. Whew!

And to think that for a scary minute, the West's happy partnership with the Saudi goose that lays the golden eggs was in jeopardy over nothing more than a merry mixup!

Posted by: Ort | Oct 20, 2018 2:45:16 PM | 69

Posted by: Occidentosis | Oct 20, 2018 2:11:22 PM | 66

He assumed he had the West in his pockets. He was probably right.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 20, 2018 2:45:44 PM | 70

Well just about every one would want to remove trump by now ! So let’s narrow it down to who had the opotunity and motive to use kashoggi’s demise to implicate trump ! The democrats for a start ! Did you see the look on killerys face when she lost the election for president? ‘Hell have no fury as a women scorned’
Democrats felt cheated! That’s a clear motive to get trump out.
Opotunity ? There will be a group of the CIA with democrat loyalty’s/self-interests with access directly or indirectly to trump. Plus an army of adviser’s ect in the Democratic camp. Trump could have been influenced into giveing his approval to crown prince !
Pure conjecture i here you cry ! Fair enough so let’s look at there previous record of similar offence’s ! Let’s be fare both Dems & Republics are all about regeme chainge around the world. That is a given.
So this is no dark conspiracy theory, this is reality ! We know desperate US was heading for a fall. But clearly some of the commentators here are a bit slow in reckonising the sign’s.
And appearing to want to view world suffering as there own personal voyaristic entertainment.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 2:56:41 PM | 71

thanks b...

my favourite posts on the thread sio far?

@16 kiza....@40 BM. and peter au random comments... consulation prize, although i don’t agree with is @53 rjpjr...

qiuck thoughts which i stated before and which kiza states as well - the jackals are going after there own here.. no way usa or trump come out of this favourably and it is going to continue.. of course this has been the approach of the usa, uk, israel, ksa, uae, turkey and etc, for a very long time, it suggests to me a real change is coming to this same group of clusterfucks, although, just which one first and how long until it unfolds is the ongoing question... it is not biz as usual...even if mbs is removed, i don’t think that is going to be all that will happen to ksa..

uk is playing some sort of weird game here.. i can’t figure it out.. sleasy country on the world stage no doubt, but looks like they are playing a game with the usa i can’t. make out.. they always dance to the same depraved tune..

erdogan is going to try for more.. that is my feeling.. he is not happy with any competition for his idlib pocket, or interference from kurds, finaced by ksa or usa... he will continue to use the tape data until he gets more.. i doubt qatar has anything to do with it..

trump is not going to own up to his money making deals with the medival clown, so must contunue to soft pedal the kashoggi dismemberment...the mueller investigation is now the endless kashoggi investigation, regardless mid term elections.

mbs is a liar thru and thru... his time is limited, unless he learns to be a better liar.. even then, i can’t see it...

israel is in a tougher spot now.. the syria war went the wrong way and now this...they don’t get there war on iran via usa, uk and poodles as they had hoped..

russia and china continue to move slow while these bozos make mistakes, or have there nature revealed for all to see...west and crony capitalism/neoliberalism took money over ethics and morals and they can live with the consequences...

Posted by: james | Oct 20, 2018 3:07:08 PM | 72

To add to @ 70 of course the mid term elections coming up also give the democrats a massive ‘present incentive ‘

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 3:07:51 PM | 73

Trump will have to build his wall on Tierra del Fuego, it looks.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 3:29:42 PM | 74

James @ 72
You put more into that one comment than the rest did in the whole post, poss me included, a lot said on this post was covered in the previous kashoggi post,if people want to cover that stuff they should do it there ! Not for me to say except ‘b’ would not have had the same subject twice out of three, for people to repeat them selves or repeat others, I ‘v been trying to ‘move it along’ I hope no one minds’
So prompted by James the brits have to be considerd suspects !
Motives ? Big middle eastern money, saudi money arms sales, if this is a dirty trick to oust trump have they done a deal with the democrats to help oust trump ?it would seem clearly so ! No way would they put trumps name in the frame alleging trump gave prior aproval to the kashoggi murder !! They aledged that in the public media !!! Consider the enormaty of that ! That right there is the uk ‘smoking gun’ at the crime scene of trump&kashoggi ! The deal and gain would be to help remove trump in return for big slice of the Middle East cake, not least the Saudi cake !

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 3:36:51 PM | 75

People, where is your patience!?
Can't you just wait a couple of mere months, till Bellingcat solves this whole story, tape and all?

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 3:37:49 PM | 76

What still no takers ! Well don’t moan to me about taking up space, if people can’t keep up to bad ! But we’re moving forward,join in ! I’m not an academic but at least I’m awake.
Next suspect People (groups of) in the Republic party ! Let’s be honest you guys he’s an embaresment right let’s not have a political debate on that. Motive to replace trump with another leader! Opotunity ? Clearly there right in there, could of egged trump on To approve mbs alleged offing kashoggi, onece again right before primary’s ! let him ‘go’ replace him with new leader ! Sorted.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 4:09:17 PM | 77

Right i’m Not waiting, I want to get suspects out of the way, and then start getting very serious! Got your attention ?
Last suspect ! Israel !!! The Mossad Moto—- ‘by deception we do war’ opotunity Massive influence in Britain, America, Middle East. Possible gain ? strengthening there hold on America (Dems love them) ditto UK and needless to say further empire building in Middle East. Conclusion ‘delusions of grandeur ‘ yep a suspect !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 4:27:02 PM | 78

Posted by: worldblee | Oct 20, 2018 1:08:22 PM | 58
Let's put this in terms Americans can understand. Khashoggi was a player in the Saudi game of thrones who got caught on the wrong side and was dismembered.
Got caught? He walked into it. Quite strange for the guy who was so well connected and knowledgeable insider. Remember, he knew how SA system works, inside out. And if he was a CIA asset, he would have a sixth sense to smell danger 10 miles away.
Just think about it: He walked into the lions den, alone, did not even bother to have few friends to chaperone him just in case - again, remember, chaperoning is ME custom, it would be a second nature to him to have someone(s) with him when going to uncomfortable places where you must watch out. He was either unbelievably stupid, or suicidal or something else was happening that we do not know.
I do not even buy the story about divorce papers. If the reason going there was just that simple, he would just go in with his fiancee, not leave her to wait outside. And why would you need to go for divorce papers to a consulate anyway? What a consulate has to do with marriage matters? Why did he care about the papers, he was a Saudi, couldn't they have 4 wives legally + umpteen concubines?
Nothing makes sense in this story. It is all BS from beginning to the end, with or without M. It is so stupid.

Posted by: hopehely | Oct 20, 2018 4:29:38 PM | 79

worldbee has it covered. He must have known he was not walking out or did he have something in his pocket he thought would give him
unlimited access?

Posted by: steve | Oct 20, 2018 4:37:56 PM | 80

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 3:37:49 PM | 75
People, where is your patience!?
Can't you just wait a couple of mere months, till Bellingcat solves this whole story, tape and all?

Nothing to wait, they admitted they killed him.
So, what they need to do now is to give the body to his family so he can be buried.
Where is the body?

Posted by: hopehely | Oct 20, 2018 4:45:58 PM | 81

I’m surprised the Kerch Polytechnic massacre has not been covered here. After all, first reports on RT from witnesses mentioned multiple shooters wearing masks and speaking in a foreign language. Fort Russ is convinced it was a false flag. I am curious why the whole story was dropped within 24 hours and has hardly been been mentioned since. An article appeared on RT today, but that’s it. It’s like it never happened. Looking at the weapon in more detail it was a Hastan Escort pump-action that takes 7 plus 1 cartridges which have to be manually inserted one after the other.

The shotgun fired slugs by the looks of one extracted from a wall on the RT vid today, with only one kill or injured per slug, as opposed to buckshot, say, where multiple small metal balls spread out more and can hit two or more people, but obviously not so lethally. This 18 year-old can reload 6 or 7 times in a very short space of time, kill 20 and injure 50, design and set off a bomb about which little is known except it was in the cafeteria. It’s possible, sure but to do all this on his own? I am convinced he had help and training or even indoctrination. The Russian authorities seem very keen to leave the story as it is. And apparently there is a police station 300 yards away from the school. How, with the time it takes to reload, did he get so many long shots off before police arrived?

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 20, 2018 4:55:48 PM | 82

Hass | 7

"And know why the won't produce his body? Because they can't, most like it's already destroyed."

I doubt that, rather. It's Muslims offing another Muslim. However horrifying, inhumane and uncivilised the act of killing may have been, they will nonetheless make sure their dead guy gets a proper Islamic burial. Whatever's left of the body put into the ground and neatly aligned towards Mecca.

That's something I, myself, missed earlier when thinking about this case and who could possibly be responsible. You know, thinking along the lines of: the body's apparently still there, so it was meant to be found as incriminating evidence, otherwise they would have dumped it into the sea which is so conveniently close. Thought of this as similar to the Skripal case - in any real assassination, "the Ruskies" could easily have dumped the spray flacon into the sea, for it never to be seen again. Since that wasn't done, the evidence was meant to be found. Ergo, false flag. But my logic was flawed. A party of devout Muslims embarking on a deadly false flag will have the body as an ongoing liability. Us non-Muslims, we wouldn't need to have any qualms about destroying the frigging evidence in a nice bonfire, or just feeding it to the fish. For Muslims, that's problem.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Oct 20, 2018 4:59:11 PM | 83

Oops, there goes the INF Treaty.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 20, 2018 5:02:05 PM | 84

hopehely 79

Turkish law. wikipedia...
"Turkey is a predominantly Muslim nation that has abolished polygamy, which was officially criminalized with the adoption of the Turkish Civil Code in 1926, a milestone in Atatürk's secularist reforms. Penalties for illegal polygamy are up to 2 years imprisonment.[1] Turkey has long been known for its promotion of secularism[2][3][4] and later introduced even stricter bars on polygamy. Even the ruling moderate AK Parti effectively banned polygamists from entering or living in the country.[5]"

The polygamy laws may not be strictly enforced under Erdogan, but they are there to be used when required.
Perhaps his honeypot slipped some viagra into him and then told him he had to get official divorce papers :)

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 5:03:15 PM | 85

I guess MbS doesn't have some of the US tools at hand like an AG (ex: Gonzalez) to write opinions excusing his actions. Or the ability to declare their own citizens "enemy combatants" and worthy of a drone strike. Khashoggi stayed public which he may have thought protected him.

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 20, 2018 5:03:47 PM | 86

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 5:03:15 PM | 84
Perhaps his honeypot slipped some viagra into him and then told him he had to get official divorce papers :)
It could be, still no reason for him to personally go to the consulate to get them. He could have sent his authorized divorce lawyer to do it on his behalf. There was no need to risk setting foot on Saudi territory.

Posted by: hopehely | Oct 20, 2018 5:17:34 PM | 87

Thanks guys now we’re getting interesting, on fresh ground !
Let’s be fair kashoggi was a street wise arsehole (god rest his soul) any argument there ?no thought not. So who who’d of convinced him he was safe ? Some one who had something to gain by the outcome resulting :- see list of above suspect !
Now we’re moving forward—- Q If he was such an arsehole why should we give a dam what happened to him ? Well we should one hell of a lot !!! ‘ He’s pivotal’ —- Because this is f—-ing serious, it’s serious as to who runs America, it’s serious as to what now takes place geo-politically in Saudia Arabia, and the whole region, the impact the situation could have on your and my life ! But as important as that is ! It pales into insignificance compared to:- the situation and deaths in Yemen ! The scores of millions in refugee/concerntration camps solely there for US UK greed of oil and arm sales. I could go on down a very very long list but I won’t ! Wake up engage your brains finally and do that for your selve!
So then we have the patential of nucular, germ warfare,
I don’t want to be timed out but you get the drift Kashoggi matters !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 5:20:53 PM | 88

@40
"As to the murder in the embassy aspect, it took place on Saudi sovereign territory NOT on Turkish sovereign territory. Murderer, victim and action were all exclusively under Saudi legal jurisdiction at the time of the murder (unlike the case of the Iranian Embassy in London and PC Fletcher, who was shot from an embassy window, therefore it involved both sovereignties)."

You err here. It was the Libyan Embassy in St. James's Square, not that of Iran.

Posted by: j | Oct 20, 2018 6:17:22 PM | 89

@88 a troll, ignore I will.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 6:23:29 PM | 90

@ Mark2 who just called long time commenter Tannenhouser a troll

I appreciate that b lets some folks stay around for a while for entertainment purposes but you overstayed your welcome to me with your blathering on quite some time ago.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20, 2018 6:33:32 PM | 91

Can't really write more than what I have already on this. Shot while trying to escape is the essence of the excuse offered up way too late for any level of credibility. But, who in Saudi has the wherewithal to challenge MbS on this? Given actions by the Outlaw US Empire that are just as evil, it has no ethical grounds on which to mount any action; same with France, UK, and any other NATO nation. Khashoggi's dead, the project he was working on is exposed and no longer viable. Trump has zero leverage since he must have Saudi to impose further illegal sanctions on Iran. However, it appears some rapprochement between Iran and Saudi has occurred over this and the previous humiliation Trump visited on Saudi. Then there's the ongoing behind-the-scenes discourse between Russia, China, and all the region's players--sometimes including the Zionists. I think it's safe to say Khashoggi would still be alive if the Outlaw US Empire had ceased its drive for regime change in Syria once Aleppo was liberated. IMO, domestic Outlaw US Empire politics will force the issue one way or another, and we'll just need to be patient, wait and see.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 20, 2018 6:35:54 PM | 92

So we can assume who ever is aiming to remove or weaken trump they won’t be doing it for any altruistic reasons, they won’t be fixing to end world war, return refugees to there homes ect ect. Far from it as bad as things are now they would get much worse
I don’t like trump I think with overwhelming evidence he’s a facist (thanks for reminding me @88 troll) kkk masoganistic refugee abuse nuff said. But he is there kind of democraticly. If he gets taken down by yes the 1% they wil be treating the USA public the way they treat Palestine, Lebanon ,Yemen any one who can’t see that is blind !
Putin won’t save us. ‘ He’s not our friend or our partner’ he’s the president of Russia, the only people who can save us is us ! Not by swapping one bad president for another bad president but by chainging the system and quick !

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 6:50:07 PM | 93

Well, it's obvious where the body is. It was dumped in the ocean from a helicopter in keeping with sacred Muslim tradition. Sheeesh. /s

Posted by: Capn Mike | Oct 20, 2018 6:54:07 PM | 94

Oh resident troll number 2 has turned up ! @91 same person as number I troll
Both off topic, nothing to contribute ! I’l wish everyone good night.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 20, 2018 7:02:08 PM | 95

Harry Law @ 18 said;

"What this whole saga represents is a complete denial of International law, morality and an acceptance from Western leaders [remember PM T Mays reception of MbS recently] of the power of money over basic decency, human rights and the rule of law in this world. All 5 veto wielding powers plus their friends notably Israel and Saudi Arabia] are above International law for all time, the rest better get tooled up and ready to fight, or accept their place in the world as fawning sycophants to those with the guns or the money."

HW you nailed this one. Kudos, and a large high five for that synopsis...Definitely worth my repost. Wish I'd said it.

Posted by: ben | Oct 20, 2018 7:53:00 PM | 96

ben @97--

Yep, humanity has a long way to travel before it can call itself morally, ethically, civilized. The human animal hasn't yet learned how to tame itself, nor will it as long as the culturally instilled goal is to get more than the other folks. Win-Winism must replace Zero-sumism--it's the thought that drives the act that must change.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 20, 2018 8:18:53 PM | 97

Karlof1 "domestic Outlaw US Empire politics will force the issue one way or another, and we'll just need to be patient,"

That is my thought as well. I used Khashoggi as a search term in twitter to see what would come up. What was most noticeable is how the MSM is pushing it. Led by WaPo and NYT they will keep on this to try and take Trump down. The dodgy dossier was just propaganda with nothing behind it yet the Mueller inquiry is still going. Here with KSA admitting to killing Khashoggi they have got a case with real meat behind it.
Much will depend on how long and how much Erdo will drip feed the media. And that depends on what Erdogan is wanting out of this and whether or not he gets what he wants.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 20, 2018 8:50:13 PM | 98

""This is all the more plausible that there are major players outside the Kingdom who would want to use the occasion to smear Jared and Tweetie Bird in the White House, whose close relations with MbS could then be used against them in a number of ways.''

That is such a nitwit statement I am almost speechless.
Kushner is enlisting everyone he knows to defend MbS because MbS is critical to Israel's plan for Palestine.
I cannot believe that anyone who follows the ME mess and the WH isn't aware that Kushner actually works for Netanyahu and Israel, not Trump and obviously Trump is ok with that.

Posted by: renfro | Oct 20, 2018 9:12:41 PM | 99

re: hopehely | Oct 20, 2018 5:17:34 PM | 86

"It could be, still no reason for him to personally go to the consulate to get them. He could have sent his authorized divorce lawyer to do it on his behalf. There was no need to risk setting foot on Saudi territory."

You know this how? I get so bored with types who imagine just because the law works a certain way where they live, it must work that way everywhere else, usually but not exclusively, amerika. If you had closely followed the machinations of the Saudis you would know that Kashoggi did everything he could to avoid going into the embassy, he initially refused and the Saudis said "You have to come in person",they may even have quoted some piece of obscure wahabi law. Next thing Kashoggi who feared the worst from what had happened to other known critics who had visited their embassy just dropped in out of the blue to be told that the papers weren't there and he would have to make an appointment and come back without foreigners as this was a private Saudi matter.
Of course Kashoggi was suspicious but he wasn't thinking with his brain (again search up how the israeli kidnappers grabbed nuke whistle-blower the Mizrachi Mordecai Vanunu another example of how silly & careless middle-aged blokes can be when they feel the urge to spear the bearded clam).

Kashoggi foolishly thought that if he told as many people as possible in Turkey's law enforcement, security and government circles about his appointment, then planted his squeeze outside the embassy in a conspicuous position with her camera phone, he should be ok, nothing more than a forceful interview, maybe a bit of a clip around the head, which is why he told whatsherface to wait at least 4 hours before calling for help.
He was scared of being abducted but like most of us especially those keen to impress a woman, he also feared the humiliation that would follow if he had an emergency called up and the Turkish security services later found out he had been drinking coffee and sharing a shisha with the consul who was after all, an acquaintance.

Divorce law is complex, arcane law that varies hugely from country to country.
You, well I anyhow, would think that Aotearoa and Australia would have pretty much the same divorce laws since they have spent decades trying to make most of their legal systems share commonality, but back in the day when I used to get out and about, I found it necessary to divorce an english woman who I had married in Aotearoa so I could marry a German in Australia otherwise she would have no more visa and that would have been unsuitable for both of us.
The Australians said quite reasonably I had to get a divorce before I married again, my family law bloke said "you must get the divorce in the country where you got married - trouble was neither I nor my former wife lived in Aotearoa/NZ any longer, so I had to hire two kiwi lawyers one for myself one for the former, and because the judge had a hair up his fundament, I also had to fly four & a half thousand kilometers to NZ to let the beak see me, pay both lawyers in Aotearoa then fly back to Northern Oz thinking all the time "WTF am I doing this - next time will cost even more".

Mine was easy because they were civil marriages and civil divorces, those superstitious types such as Kashoggi, who want to splice in a church, mosque or temple have to pay off the parallel bureaucracy of their particular superstition as well as the civil courts' setup.
For me it was an expensive but worthwhile lesson that if someone wants a visa let them do it themselves no matter how powerfully the juices are flowing.

That is sorta why I feel sorry for Kashoggi - if men honestly study their motives, they know damn well that when their dander is up they have about as much self-control as the dog chained up next door howling to get to the b1tch in heat down the road.
As for honeypot - well maybe, but I suspect an unwitting one who was played by her AK masters just as Kashoggi was played by the Saudis.
However as much as Kashoggi may have felt like kicking himself as it all faded to black it is pretty obvious that if Fishy hadn't got him killed this way he would have done it another, probably less provable way.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20, 2018 10:08:03 PM | 100

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