Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 16, 2018

Coverup Deal Will Blame Khashoggi Death On Extreme Torture

The coverup of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, killed on behalf of the Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman, proceeds apace. It is part of a deal between Turkey and Saudi Arabia under the aegis of the United States. The haggling over the details will take a while.

Several media report of a test ballon, floated to find out if an 'alternative' story will fly:

Saudi Arabia was preparing an alternative explanation of the fate of a dissident journalist on Monday, saying he died at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul two weeks ago in an interrogation gone wrong, according to a person familiar with the kingdom’s plans. In Washington, President Trump echoed the possibility that Jamal Khashoggi was the victim of “rogue killers.”
[O]n Monday, a person familiar with the Saudi government’s plans said that Mr. Khashoggi was mistakenly killed during an interrogation ordered by a Saudi intelligence official who was a friend of the crown prince. The person, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Prince Mohammed had approved interrogating or even forcing Mr. Khashoggi to return to Saudi Arabia under duress.

But, the person said, the Saudi intelligence official went too far in eagerly seeking to prove himself in secretive operations, then sought to cover up the botched job.

One might expand on that fairytale: "The Saudi general who allegedly botched the interrogation of Jamal Khashoggi mysteriously died in a Saudi air force plane crash on the same day the coverup story was floated." But that would probably take it too far.

The floated story will of course not be believed. A deadly interrogation - extreme torture - in the Saudi consulate is not plausible. One does not need to fly in 15 operators, including a specialist for autopsies, to twist someone's arms and ask a few questions. The intent was either to kidnap the guy or to outright kill him.

The trial ballon seems to come from U.S. sources, not from the Saudis. Trump yesterday spoke of "rogue killers" who may have caused the incident. No one near Mohammad bin Salman dares to go rogue. It's a deadly sin. U.S. intelligence services seem to believe that Khashoggi was indeed killed. The Wall Street Journal reports that Turkey provided its evidence:

The Turkish government has shared with U.S. officials what it describes as audio and video recordings purporting to show that Mr. Khashoggi was killed in the building, people familiar with the matter said.

The Trump administration will have to sell the story not only to the public, but also to the Turkish President Erdogan and to the Saudi King.

Both seem to prepare for a deal. After two weeks of denial that anything happened to Khashoggi the Saudis finally reacted:

King Salman ordered the Saudi public prosecutor to head a probe to determine responsibility for who was responsible for Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance, people familiar with the matter said Monday. Probe results could be announced within days, and lead to some Saudi individuals being held accountable for Mr. Khashoggi’s death, one of the people said.

The Turkish side is also preparing to accept the coverup:

On Monday Turkish investigators – who had been willing to talk for much of the past nine days – were now more cautious. So too were Turkish journalists, one of whom said that his outlet had been instructed to focus less on the apparent crime and more on the political settlement.

The Turkish President Erdogan may agree to a 'political settlement' but the price the Saudis will have to pay for that will be very high. Erdogan again made clear that he aims at nothing less than neo-ottoman leadership in the Arab world:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Monday said that Turkey was the only country that could lead the Muslim world.

“Turkey, with its cultural wealth, accretion of history and geographical location, has hosted diverse faiths in peace for centuries, and is the only country that can lead the Muslim world,” he said in a meeting with religious officials.

The "Custodian of the two Holy Mosques" (in Mecca and Medina) is the official title of the Saudi king. It implies leadership within the Muslim word. Since Saladin the title was used by many Islamic rulers, including the Ottoman Sultans. Erdogan wants it back. His aspirations pose an open challenge to the Saudi rulers.

But when a deal has to be made, a deal will happen. Even it it takes some time.

Whatever the deal might be Jamal Khashoggi's children will protest against it. They demand "an independent and impartial international commission to inquire into the circumstances of his death". The Washington Post, where Khashoggi worked, and some Congress members will likely support them. But there is little chance that Trump or the Saudis will agree to any independent inquiry.

An open question is the future of clown prince Mohammad bin Salman. The 'deep state' wants him to leave. The uncontrollable guy - only a heartbeat away from becoming king - proved to be too dangerous to be allowed in such a position.

This detail is therefore intriguing:

The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Khalid bin Salman, left Washington last week, returned to Riyadh and will not be returning, a current and a former American official said on Monday. It was not clear when he might be replaced, or by whom. Prince Khalid is the crown prince’s younger brother.

Did clown prince Mohammad bin Salman recall his brother because he feared that he plotted against him? Or did King Salman order him back to replace MbS as crown prince?

Mohammad bin Salman is already damaged goods. I find it unlikely that he will be allowed to stay in his position. Several high level U.S. congress people, including top Republicans, want him to go. The CIA's darling, Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, will likely regain the crown prince position.

On Monday, while the cover up story was thought out, Turkish investigators were finally allowed to enter the Saudi consulate. Before they arrived a cleaning crew entered the building (vid) to prepare the presumed crime scene.

Trump sent Secretary of State Pompeo to facilitate negotiations between the Saudis and Turks. Ambassador James Jeffrey, the special representative for Syria engagement, is joining him in the endeavor. The Saudis finance the Kurdish proxy force the U.S. uses for its occupation of northeast Syria. One of Erdogan 's demands will be that any such support ends.

Trump is a businessman. The U.S. help for cleaning up the mess MbS caused will not come cheap. He will press the Saudis to sign more weapon deals. He will urge them to stick to random killing of Yemeni civilians.

In the view of the Washington establishment causing the famine of millions of dark skinned people is a lesser sin than touching a journalist and operative they perceive as one of their own.

Posted by b on October 16, 2018 at 10:28 UTC | Permalink

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James @55

I'm not sure what Pat Lang blog you are talking about, but I did find the Sic Semper Tyrannis site for Patrick Lane. I noticed that Patrick Armstrong posted an article in which he said:

".......SKRIPALMANIA. Has now been completely outsourced to Bellingcat. Which tells the discerning observer two things: 1) there is no evidence 2) the truth is probably the opposite. (And for those of you who take Bellingcat seriously: become discerning.)......"

I'm not sure how you expect me to take any site seriously with a bitter comment like that. In the case of Armstrong at least, it is not about seeking the truth, but about pressing a political agenda. If Bellingcat proved the US attempted to kill Skripal, Armstrong would have embraced Bellingact like a fly embraces shit. Armstrong may disagree with Bellingcat politically, but Higgins (and staff) proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the GRU was behind the attempted murder of Skripal. Additionally, Bellingcat (along with the JIT and Boris Nemtsov) showed conclusively that the Russians supplied the Buk missile launcher that shot down MH17.

Armstrong needs to move on and accept the obvious truth. If this is a different site than the one you had in mind, let me know.

Posted by: craigsummers | Oct 17 2018 1:56 utc | 101

craigsummers | Oct 16, 2018 9:56:33 PM | 97

"Higgins (and staff) proved beyond a shadow of a doubt..."

Here we are: craigsummers is acting as a promotor of Eliot Higgins, an expert in ladies' underwear (and college dropout), who is highly valued by the professionally Russophobic Atlantic Council. Well done, craigsummers.

PS: If you are not able to recognize the name Lang in "Patrick Lang", then you need to visit an optometrist. Though this will not help to alleviate your blind zionist hatred for Russia.

Posted by: Anya | Oct 17 2018 2:19 utc | 102

@ Anya 98

Anya, dont feed the resident troll. He gets a lot from by passers and is growing fat.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Oct 17 2018 4:06 utc | 103

Haspel 2.0

Posted by: AG17 | Oct 17 2018 4:59 utc | 104

@87 Frank Gelli

The whole point is that the Saudi consulate is not Turkish territory! Don't the US have some yuuuge SciFi spying device on top of their Berlin embassy keeping tabs on, well basically the whole German establishment; Merkel is whining a bit but not laying a finger on it. Seems Erdogan inserted himself into the mess through sheer chutzpah, backing of some Deep State factions in Washington, and oh maybe bugging the consulate. It may say something about KSA insecurity/disarray that they didn't simply tell all comers to stay out of their internal matter--is Lavrov moonlighting for them now?
@91 Peter AU 1

This one doesn't fly: Russia has made a spectacle of not standing by their allies. At the start of their Syria mission, many hoped that Russia would protect their long-time friend (and treaty ally) and restore order. Instead, Putin started playing games of his own ("long games" or not), and Russia's entire posture is "as long as no Russians get hurt, it's somebody else's business". Then when Russians do get hurt, they usually retreat some more. And there's a whole infrastructure of "pro-Russia military experts" and talk-show hosts to rationalize and praise this feebleness. The Clown Prince and his kingdom may be in a bad way, but it's a long way down to a fate like Syria's; no way he's going there.

Besides, should Moscow want to take over this "ally from hell", whose cash and oil reserves may have mostly run out already. Chinese have their own peculiarities, but they can take care of business and working with them puts real food on the table. Yet many Kremlin elites remain stuck in ignorance, inertia, and suspicion.
@93 Alpi

Dude neither Russia nor China has a single carrier battle group in the American sense (what use are those anyway against a peer adversary). The small Russian intervention force in their own Syrian back yard is stretching their logistic capabilities, and Putin is visibly looking for the exits. The US, being this big, advanced, and rich country, could maybe afford three CBGs--and yet they have eleven. Lots of illusions being maintained in our world.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Oct 17 2018 7:09 utc | 105

Ma sLoshi
Whats the pay like.. seems like you and summer boy are on some easy money. I will have to give it a try. Spraying shit sounds like a good way to make a dollar. Where do I apply. CIA, pentagon or GHCQ.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2018 7:56 utc | 106

any news from bellingcat on this issue yet? did they do some research?

Posted by: radiator | Oct 17 2018 8:01 utc | 107

Journalist Finian Cunningham suggests that Khashoggi was killed because of what he knew about Saudi and US complicity and 9-11. As Khashoggi's career involved both the inner circles of Saudi rulers and the the CIA, he knew where the bodies were buried.
"A tentative idea here is that Khashoggi, in his close dealings with Prince Turki over the years, may have gleaned highly sensitive inside information on what actually happened on 9/11. Were the Arab hijackers mere patsies used by the American CIA to facilitate an event which has since been used by American military planners to launch a global “war on terror” as a cover for illegal wars overseas? There is a huge body of evidence that the 9/11 attacks were indeed a “false flag” event orchestrated by the US deep state as a pretext for its imperialist rampages."
The critical tone of his recent articles and his self exile in the US made the both the Saudi and the US deep state nervous. Cunningham also mentions that he could very well have picked up his divorce papers in the US at the Saudi Embassy. One wonders why he didn't.

Posted by: Carol Davidek-Waller | Oct 17 2018 8:09 utc | 108

From 102
Second thoughts, only looking at the gibberish you've put out in comments sloshi, it seems your owners only pay peanuts.
Here's a deal. A whooping great handful of peanuts, you can scratch under your arms, scratch your arse, and anything else monkeys do if you come and work for me. No no not a propaganda outfit, just a zoo where kids can come and look at strange primates. Takes a lot of pressure off you - no points to clock up to earn your peanuts, no one leaning over your back tellin you to pump out more shit, all you gotta do is do what monkeys naturally do. Waddaya reckon - a deal..

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2018 8:19 utc | 109

In answer to Laguerre's post 16 Oct, and his prejudiced one-sided view of history, one can only assume that he is a neo-Ottoman who ignores the facts, and fabricates events to suit his purpose. Uncontestedly, the nation in the region with a past that includes forced conversions, systematic ethnic cleansing, and genocides, is Turkey. There are indeed some Christians in Turkey, but most are crypto-Christians as they fear persecution by the state, or worse, to suffer the fate of Pastor Brunson. Ask the Armenians, Pontians, Alawites, Cypriots,and Kurds about Turkish tolerance. His denial of what is universally accepted as fact, is both dangerous and loathful, but I have little time and inclination to indulge in a history lesson.

Posted by: SPYRIDON POLITIS | Oct 17 2018 8:59 utc | 110

Oh well all these predictions of changes have gone the way most predictions of change among the elite delivered sans a big gun pointed at an elite boss tend to go, that is nowhere.
The only reason there is so much noise and fury at all, is that amerika is entering it's quadrennial mid-term farce and each side is leveraging this in the hope of gaining some type of advantage - when in reality there is no advantage to be gained. Were it not 'mid-terms both halves along with the assorted media outlets which enable each half would have immediately squashed this story as they do every other yarn which may threated the stability of the melded into one "Amerikan Empire Party".
If one were to poll 100,000 amerikans on whether they would vote for a politician who fought the good fight by holding some raghead pol accountable for butchering another unreconstructed raghead who had the gall to unashamedly wore his turban in his WaPo column pix, even though it would mean the next time they filled up their car it would cost twice as much, then yes it is highly likely that most amerikans would say "hold the butchers accountable".

By most I mean about 52% tho 40% would say "no let em all butcher each other as long as I don't hafta pay for it - so I'm voting for the guy who isn't gonna p1ss off the sand ni**ers". Meanwhile the usual 8% drongos "wouldn't know".
However come polling day a much bigger majority of those who polled "hold the butchers accountable" are gonna have an epiphany in the booth and pull the handle for the "let sleeping ragheads lie" candidate.

The voters, just like the pols are indulging in a little virtue signalling before the revert to that which made amerika mediocre - insatiable greed co-mingled with unearned entitlement. The pols know this but they like all bullying mofos live in fear dreading the day when they get found out. It ain't gonna happen as long as the smart (ie non-suicidal) journos do their jobs.

Sounding like a stuck record, I repeat the bleeding obvious - the big losers from this are going to be the people of Syria. The people of Yemen will continue on their trajectory towards total obliteration no matter what happens unless a much bigger mob of us make about 100,000% more noise..

By tomorrow Mrs May is going to see her brexit plan lie in a ruinous pile of steaming dogsh1t, so she will charge her troops in MI6, GCHQ and the BBC to distract from the mess she has made by having england win accolades for proving that "Assad gassed his people'.

This will be a much larger and more complex fit up than the Salisbury fiasco. It began on Monday night with a BBC panorama documentary, but that was just preparing the ground a signal to erdogan that wheels are in motion. No one who is anyone will need any convincing. The euros need May to stay on as head lunatic of the englander asylum england lest the pinko gets in and discomfits euro elites who are driving the take no prisoners response to england's uppityness.

amerika wants to show that it rules the ME not anyone else and it decides who is the boss of whatever sh1thouse, Saudi needs a distraction, most of all erdy needs an colony to subjugate, israel needs confusion and england needs to show that it may not be able to feed itself, but it sure has the best compulsively lying sheet-sniffers on the planet.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 17 2018 8:59 utc | 111

That’s the most plousable motive yet, he must have been aware of it! What you do is parcel up all your incriminating evidence, lodge it with trusted people not to be opened unless I’m killed! If things got nasty at embassy he would have told them of his back up plan. 2 flaws ! He may not have seen his death coming, taserd perhaps or perhaps torcherd until he told who had that evidence, moral of the tale ! If you swim with sharks ya liable to get eaten !

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 17 2018 9:10 utc | 112

ERRRGH don't ya just hate it when after weeks of posts disappearing the one that hasn't been corrected sails straight thru after ya hit post by mistake. So typos galore in #107

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 17 2018 9:10 utc | 113

#106 Brunson was arrested becausze he was a cia agent - nothing to do with bein a xtian. Read some history and learn that Constantinople aka Istanbul was the base of the Byzantine mob for a 1000 years. The orthodox church which has a larger congregation than roman xtianity & its breakaway sects, has been based in Turkey sincer King Constantine, an xtian, founded the burg. Syrian ( 0f whom there were a great many until amerika & zionism conspired to butcher 'em), Lebanese, Egyptian and Palestinian xtians, all affiliate with the orthodox boss.
This why amerikan xtians blatantly ignore the oppression palestinians cop from zionists every xmas when they go to bethlehem. The zionists want to chuck em ll out and sublet the world's oldest xtian temples to whatever crazy amerikan cult pays the most.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 17 2018 9:22 utc | 114

Here is what I don't understand about this: who is orchestrating all this outrage?

Clearly not Trump, he has sent Pompeo to try (unsuccessfully, it seems) make this problem go away.

Nobody is listening, because they are all taking their cue from Somewhere Else.

But where?

It's not just the US midterms that can explain this - the faux outrage is world-wide, including places that couldn't give a toss about those elections.

So who is stoking it? Or am I supposed to accept that this is just mass hysteria writ large?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 17 2018 10:20 utc | 115

@ Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 17, 2018 6:20:53 AM | 111
mid terms is stoking it within amerika. Things such as this flare up in neolib europe from time to time and they generally pass by after a few days because no one stokes them and the compliant amerikan media down plays them, but this time erdogan is stoking it, just enough - never too much with initial day by day slow release of information. The englander papers have kept the story bubbling since not only was there not much happening otherwise, brexit boredom or more skripal tosh which many are tired of, to sell papers, the amerikan response was consfused confusing not the usual blanket denials cos of the need to virtue signal thru mid terms.
As well as having the 'if it bleeds. it leads' attraction the issue was easy to 'humanise' as lots of pix of the victim and at the same time as the shock horror thing allowed the snuff porn fans to claim the moral highground, the nationalities off all the protagonists played into the innate anti-arab racism most 'westerners' have been indoctrinated into subscribing to. A perfect storm of morality and racism - what more could a spectator want to grab ahold of.

Since Turkey and its highly controlled media are the primary source for just about all the 'news' on this subject, controlling this story is a doddle.
If a deal is agreed and everyone shuts up, there is no story until something (most likely mbs recalcitrance) causes erdogan to turn the tap back on for a bit. He will continue to drip feed droplets to keep the story alive of course, but unless saudi or amerika try to burn him. Erdy won't be growing this yarn.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 17 2018 10:54 utc | 116

Yeah right@115


You never heard of the global elite who control the MSM?

Seriously, i give up. Pfffft.............

Posted by: Pft | Oct 17 2018 11:43 utc | 117

The coverup of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, killed on behalf of the Saudi

clown prince

Mohammad bin Salman, proceeds apace

Posted by: whodunit | Oct 17 2018 11:48 utc | 118


Erdy won't be growing this yarn.

Really? He just did and it ain't a f..cking yarn! They didn't brazenly send in a roguecleaning crew and repaint the walls because the Consulate needed sprucing up.

Khashoggi was still ALIVE when they cut him up. The Consul was in the room when they tortured him, and he started to b itch so they asked him to leave the room The guy who used the saw put headphones on.

Now we know what Wahhabi shet have in common: they're psychotic sadists. This is who Trump is in bed with. And then he's pretending ISIS is so bad in his stooped speeches. ISIS are as their bosses on the throne. Iran should get the nukes and the moment these psychos make a move; make them f..cking GLOW in the Desert, animals. Amerikkka, this is who your leaders are protecting! The worst scum on the planet. Lardy Pompeo smiling and shaking hands with the Anti-Christ. Christian values!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2018 12:25 utc | 119

The headphones story smells like propaganda. The key to a good propaganda piece is to make multiple claims simultaneously so that the brain gets overwhelmed and doesn't think to dispute the main idea (usually not stated directly) that the story is pushing. Adding a bunch of small details (such as the music) works to create this effect.

Now, by no means am I claiming that the Saudis didn't kill the guy, merely that the music story is suspect. I imagine that virtually everything we are hearing about this is distorted in some way by every party. Indeed, the whole reason this is even an issue is that someone is after MBS--otherwise, this guy would be ignored the same way that the media ignore all the other atrocities that the Saudi Arabian government carries out.

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Oct 17 2018 12:35 utc | 120

Question: Who benefits?

Posted by: Jon | Oct 17 2018 12:51 utc | 121

Circe | Oct 17, 2018 8:25:34 AM | 119

You're getting worse better up the dosage. although yeah I hit full stop when aiming for a comma the meaning was clear to anyone not grimly seeking something to stoke their outrage for whatever asinine purpose or other."
" If a deal is agreed and everyone shuts up, there is no story until something (most likely mbs recalcitrance) causes erdogan to turn the tap back on for a bit. He will continue to drip feed droplets to keep the story alive of course, but unless saudi or amerika try to burn him, Erdy won't be growing this yarn."

Meaning that if amerika and the poodles including ksa, play along edry won't create any more fuss than that required to keep this scandal alive until his demands have been met. Why would he, he is in for the long game and won't be seeking to crank up anyone for no profit when this is an ideal opportunity to recast himself as reliable, steadfast leader - unlike the young mbs idjit.

IMO they will take a chance and run with Erdogan - they don't have a lot of choice since it is that or send their bosses into near penury. Which is what will happen if the saudi support goes tits up right when the gang is trying to pressure China, who if this didn't happen would be getting severely lent on to see if they could make Xi blink.

In fact this could be bin salman's biggest problem 'going forward'. trump wants to make a stand against China right now as it will appeal to the voters who have been persuaded to blame China for the mess, rather than the rich pr1cks who used cheaper chinese labour to maximise profits.
The outta the blue saudi saga has put too much pressure on, maybe making amerika's two largest creditors consider whether they may be better served by combining their interests against the USD for a while.
Saudi was probably expected to stay in the background and profit off USD renmimbi fluctuations, but if capitol hill causes the saudis to rethink their usd stake by intimating seizure or a freeze, joining forces with China to fight back could be the most viable defense which would truly take down the glib exceptionalists

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 17 2018 13:10 utc | 122

@117 Pft.

OK, and........? Simply muttering about a “global elite” explains nothing. You may as well claim that The boogeyman is after MbS.

What I don’t understand is WHY they have turned on him.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 17 2018 13:13 utc | 123

Does "interrogation going wrong" means ending up cut in pieces or melted in an acid bath?
It is ironic how that a gruesome proven murder is minimized into a simple interrogation accident...
By ignoring the horrors of the Yemen war and accepting the killing of Kashoggi as an 'accident' to keep the Saudi money flowing, the West is offering the last proof that it has totally lost any sense of morality and justice.
If this injustice will naturally blows back in revenge to the Western world, we should not expect anyone to be shocked or shed tears..

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 17 2018 13:18 utc | 124

The audio might eventually emerge and then we'll have the details. The Turks have to put it out there because the public needs to know what kind of species their government protects. The public must be shocked into the realization that no Zionist agenda is worth associating with butcher thugs who fly around slamming into buildings and threatening Canada with same because it dared to criticize their abuses and silencing with barbaric terror.

Zionism is the scourge that unleashed this beast that helped to decimate Syria and is now scorching earth in Yemen. They must be exposed for who they really are including the Zionist web of deception that protects them, weaponizes them and uses them as psy-ops to move the world into their sphere of influence - move it in the direction they need, the fear-driven herd mentality they need to sustain power.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2018 13:19 utc | 125

The martyr of Jamal Kashoggi. Propaganda or the gruesome reality?

A Turkish source who has listened in full to an audio recording of the journalist's horrifying last moments told Middle East Eye (MEE) It took seven minutes for Khashoggi to die.

Khashoggi was dragged from the Consul General’s office at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and onto the table of his study next door, the Turkish source said, adding that horrendous screams were then heard by a witness downstairs. The screaming stopped when Khashoggi was injected with an as yet unknown substance.

"The consul himself was taken out of the room. There was no attempt to interrogate him. They had come to kill him,” the source told MEE...
Salah Mohammad al-Tubaigy, who has been identified as the head of forensic evidence in the Saudi general security department, began to cut Khashoggi’s body up on a table in the study while he was still alive, the source said, adding that the killing took seven minutes.

As he started to dismember the Khashoggi's body, Tubaigy put on earphones and listened to music, advising other members of the squad to do the same.

“When I do this job, I listen to music. You should do [that] too,” Tubaigy was recorded as saying, the source told MEE.

Daeshi-Style: Saudi Journalist Butchered While Still Alive, Interrogation Theory Pseudo

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 17 2018 13:36 utc | 126

Some Accidental (Heart attack)! They cut him up while he was still alive. Grisly details of the saudi journalist's killing have emerged.

Posted by: ayatoilet | Oct 17 2018 14:36 utc | 127

The Zionist/Saudi alliance is a marriage made in HELL. Zionists ensure continuity of the Monarchy while the other spreads chaos, fake revolution and fear through their mercenary terrorist militia and represents itself as a military bloc against Iran, a shoulder to shoulder offensive with Zionists like ONE.

The sin that Iran committed is not that it has represented a significant physical threat through aggression on the shethole Zionist enclave, but that it dares to expose Zionism for what it really is: a threat to peace, stability and even humanity. Iran is a threat to Zionist power, because it challenges the entitled authority of Zionism, exposes its depraved intent to subjugate the public and sometimes dares to respond to the Zionist offensive in Lebanon, Syria and apparently, in some way that Zionists obsess about, in Yemen. Wherever Zionists and Saudi proxies set their aim together, staggering destruction follows; everything they touch turns into a wasteland covered with corpses. There is no doubt in the malice that they wield; by their acts they are known: AN ALLIED FORCE FOR EVIL IN THIS WORLD.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2018 14:37 utc | 128

@123 yeah right and why they have turned on is not a completely done deal that they have turned on him, but it looks more like 60/40 here then it did when he was given the role of clown prince...i think he has been pissing off a few too many ksa insiders who don’t like the accomodations at the riyadh rtiz carleton and don’t like the thought of being the next dismembered saudi to go missing...

so, basically some folks are hedging there bets @124 virgile notes, anyone who believes the line trump gave the other day of an interrogation gone bad, needs to take up a different hobby then espionage or sluething, cause clearly they are lousy at it...good comments virgile. thanks.. now it is true when instability is in the cards, there is money to be made, so we see trump, erdogan and company circling the money drain, but overall, i think it is going to be hard to keep the clown prince from shooting himself in the foot, if someone else doesn’t just get rid of him first....maybe his dad is concerned the kid might knock him off before he puts an end to the clown princes rule? there are a lot of possibilities here.. those saudi princes holed up and fleeced at the ritz riyadh must be a creative bunch who are cooking upsomething here too..

bottom line, i give him less then 2 years.. iwant to say less then 1 but am being conservative here..

@circe... i don’t know circe, but since you talk about zionism so frequently, it is easy for me to imagine you as some kind of reverse role hasbara shit artist... if you were a bit more creative and didn’t. mention it so often i might think differenlt..

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2018 15:01 utc | 129

sophia / les_politiques on twitter has the best analysis of events that I have seen so far. It is quite long and would be better off written into an organized article. I hope she does this.

Posted by: Cynic of all cynics | Oct 17 2018 15:30 utc | 130


The most dangerous illusion is to maintain that if they stayed home and minded their own business, nothing will happen to them. After Iran, Russia and China will be next. If Iran goes, say goodbye to OBOR and any prospect of Eurasian integration.

Do you wait until the fight comes to you or you take it to them? If Russians have learned anything from Syria, they will understand that there is only one way to deal with a belligerent bully, stretched-thin-arsenal or not. Unified they will stand and divided they will fall. They learned that lesson very well.

Another illusion or better yet, delusion, is that US is an invincible country. Many empires have fallen throughout history and this will be no different.

Posted by: Alpi | Oct 17 2018 15:34 utc | 131

as for the turkish media, they keep on dishing it out in small morsels with more today... meanwhile pompeo in istanbul wants everyone to swallow the tired cliche about a ‘’complete’’ investigation..
so the turkish lady hoping to marry kashoggi has connections high up in the turkish power structure.. of course one must ask if she was in on the deal... and what a coincidence the pastor was released in this window here as well...well one guys girlfriend can be anothers secret service member and one guys role as pastor can be a cia operative to another too.. so, it looks to me that turkey and the usa are keeping the clown prince on the grill for a bit longer here to see what they can get out of him... trumps ‘’rogue’’ killer line is pretty poor quality fodder for the masses... i think as b notes, there is more mileage. in this story and it is going to be hard to quiet the story dow... the nyt mentioned today how some of the big financial guys pulled the plug on the davos in the desert thing coming up too... it is not exactly biz as usual for the short term anyway.. there is more ruthlessness coming from ksa. i think it’s a given.....

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2018 15:37 utc | 132

and of course one can’t discount the possibility the usa was involved in the set up on kashoggi either as he was a cia operative and may have outlived his usefullness, not to mention the speculation on his knowledge of waht happened in around 911...

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2018 15:41 utc | 133

@106 peter.. i read ma laoshi similar to you...too many comments don’t add up..

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2018 15:43 utc | 134

Yesterday it was Iranian guards at the Afghan border; today the school in Crimea. KSA agitating its cell wherever it can

Posted by: Mina | Oct 17 2018 15:47 utc | 135

It’s nice to know that trump is sticking up for the crown prince, and they can put arms trade profits and genercide in Yemen, a higher priority above dismemberment in an embassy! I feel so releaved considering Trump has his finger on the nucular butten, and 75 srategcaly placed germ-warfare factory’s churning out bacteria and viruses! For all there worth ! I’m only sad I was so critical of trump before he was elected! I envy all those trump voters ! they must be so satisfied there all going to die an agoanising pox ridden death like the rest of us, but out of there own choise at the ballot box ! Ye ha

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 17 2018 15:55 utc | 136

Yeah, Right @123--

IMO, we're witnessing a Succession Crisis--MbS is being jumped on now because he finally made an error that opened himself up to external attack which is in support of internal faction(s) damaged by his Reform Purge--the CIA wants it's man to regain his previous position as Clown Prince and Trump's sticking up for his man MbS. Recall what was being described as the Outlaw US Empire's own Succession Crisis when the CIA/DNC/HRC lined up against Trump's election that invoked RussiaGate as a method to hamstring/remove Trump. What we're seeing, IMO, is the continuance of that contrived crisis, which at the time also invoked MbS's power grab as being a part of the whole. Was Khashoggi bait? That would explain why the Istanbul Consulate, not DC's. Plus, many of those caught in the Purge were connected to the Global Deep State; so, there's also the revenge factor. And Khashoggi was in with that group too.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 16:06 utc | 137

Posted this on Consortium , I do not know if it got through:

This case is murky. The Turkish explanation clearly contradicts the Saudi Arabian, but that is to expect considering their relations.
Qui bono ? Well Russia gains, but I suppose it is to farfetched to concoct a story with a Russian hit Squad...
Even the Guardian could not make this up.
If the Saud’s did it, bad plan, very baaaad plan, as idiotic as the Skripal thingie, nobody and no one can be that incompetent!

“Ok , once he gets inside we beat him, drug him and put him on a table and dismember him!
Aint that gonna make a mess ?
We will just repaint the consulate and spray toxin on the walls!
Is that a good idea ? And what about the body parts ?
We carry him out in diplomatic bags!
So we will fly out with parts of a dead man in our luggage ?
Yes basically!”
This sounds like a horror movie script and not the playbook from a feared and effective intelligence agency. It does simply not add up.
Trumps tweets about something gone wrong are below imbecile, they are not even a stupid level.
But the turks seem confident, and if true they have Saudi Arabia in a vice.
Of course unless two Russians were in Istanbul at the same time :)

Difficult posting there.
A we missing some regulars or am I being paranoid ? Who was it that claimed they were under surveillance ?
Of course not! People just dont disappear in consulates! .... Or do they?

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Oct 17 2018 16:24 utc | 138

136 cont'd--

Garrie's analysis supports my hypothesis thusly:

"Instead, the existing political divides in the US between Democrats and neocon Republicans on one side and Trump supporting Republicans on the other is akin to the dynamics inside the House of Saud. On the one hand traditional elites in both the US and Saudi Arabia favour the jettisoning of Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman from power to be replaced by a more “predictable” heir to the throne. Here, Mohammad bin Naif being represents one such candidate. On the other hand, Donald Trump’s close relationship with Mohammad bin Salman as well as that of his son-in-law Jared Kushner to the de-facto Saudi leader makes it clear that in the event of an externally provoked palace coup, it is likely that Trump’s support would lie with the current Crown Prince.

"By contrast, were a Hillary Clinton character in power, chances are that a palace coup to oust Mohammad bin Salman could easily be green-lighted. The fact that former Obama CIA director John Brennan has joined the anti-Mohammad bin Salman crusade is a clear testament to such a hypothetical reality."

MbS erred. I'll bet Khashoggi was used as bait, but his demise wasn't anticipated; his Apple watch was to be the recording and tracking device to ensure his safety. It was likely assumed his position/standing would be enough to keep him from being murdered. According to what we know, he went confidently into the Consulate, although he did leave his phones with his fiancée. But where was the Cavalry just in case things went wrong as they did? Perhaps it was a State Department not a CIA Op as seems likely, thus no Cavalry.

Well my fellow barflies? Whatdaya say?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 16:26 utc | 139

Mina @134--

Here's a pic of terrorist. As you see, he's very white and has a very Russian name, Vladislav Roslyakov. Further info here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 16:35 utc | 140


If Zionism is the greatest force for evil in today's world why would you have a problem with me shedding as much light as possible on that darkness, unless of course, that bothers you,i.e. exposing it for what it is? And that can only mean one thing regarding your sympathies.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2018 17:16 utc | 141

NY Times:

"ISTANBUL — His killers were waiting when Jamal Khashoggi walked into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul two weeks ago. They severed his fingers and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings described by a senior Turkish official on Wednesday.

"Mr. Khashoggi was dead within minutes, and within two hours the killers were gone, the recordings suggested.

"The leaking of such details, on the same day Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was visiting Turkey, reflected an escalation of pressure by the Turkish government on Saudi Arabia and the United States for answers on the fate of Mr. Khashoggi, a prominent dissident journalist who wrote for The Washington Post."

Fake News as Trump may try to spin or proof positive as Senator Graham will invoke?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 17:19 utc | 142


Oh Lord! Noooo! Not the info-wars conspiracy. Khashoggi went in confidently telling his fiancee to alert the police if he was not back soon. That's confident?

I can't believe people who scream Yemeni injustice would try to give Trump and his criminal friend MbS a pass with a cockamamie conspiracy theory!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2018 17:30 utc | 143

I know it doesn't really advance the discussion, but when I saw photos of the odious Mike Pompeo in Riyadh, I suddenly reflected that it seems a shame that a barely-used bone saw is just going to waste.

Posted by: Ort | Oct 17 2018 17:30 utc | 144

@138 karlof1

Let me take you up on that, here goes: if Mr. Garrie talks about Turkey's "steadfast war against terror groups", then that's roll-over-the-floor funny. Also his use of the FETO acronym shows that's he's 100% following the Erdogan party line. Why should anyone listen to this "analyst" when you can get said party line straight from Erdy himself?

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Oct 17 2018 17:34 utc | 145

This idea that MsB's dad wants him out is a no-brainer. Word is dad has advanced dementia, quite gaga.

Posted by: kula danga | Oct 17 2018 17:35 utc | 146

Ma Laoshi @144--

Thanks for your reply, but it doesn't contradict anything Garrie said that backed my hypothesis. You are using a Straw Man to try and discredit the source while not addressing the premises supporting the hypothesis. Now we have the NY Times publishing the Turkish audio content leak, which adds additional pressure to Trump's defense of MbS. Which side of the Outlaw US Empire's Succession Crisis was the Times on? DNC/CIA/HRC and massive RussiaGate promoter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 17:42 utc | 147

And those ‘diplomatic bags’ what’s going on there ? They need looking at don’t they ! (Litraly) first it was millions of dollars transported to ISIS/Arcadia, diplomatic bag ! Then plain loads of Yugoslavian weapons to the Middle East, diplomatic bag ! Then human tissue plus virus and bacteria to Georgia, diplomatic bag, now it’s bone saws ‘n dismembered body’s. come on there taking the piss now right !!
Just put the dam things through an airport scanner. Problem solved. The system got abused tuff luck it gets scanned. Those diplomatic bags are they a designer label! Is it an Amazon or fedex branch you know like internet shopping, get ya dismemberd body delivered to your door !!! Give me strength
Oo an I nearly forgot the Afghan CIA herorin what was that I wonder ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 17 2018 17:52 utc | 148

Mark2 @148--

To do as you suggest would require writing a whole new treaty, and that just isn't going to occur now, although it's a sensible, future possibility.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 18:10 utc | 149

Yeah, Right 115

I have been wondering exactly the same thing.

This morning NPR went on a long, raging rampage against both MBS and the Saudis in general, ripping them both to shreds over a long list of evil behaviors.

It has, for a long time, seemed to me that the right-wing entity that took over Neocon Propaganda Radio was the Republican party, but it now seems that some other, deeply-concealed force may be the one in charge.

CIA? MI6? Koch bros?

Posted by: AntiSpin | Oct 17 2018 18:15 utc | 150

@147 karlof1

I don't think I'm discrediting the source; that'd be "Why listen to that Garrie guy, yesterday I saw him pissing into a flower bed." I was addressing the content of the article you linked. And that content shows (for me) that the first priority is fealty to Erdogan and the AKP. Indeed, the main thrust is not "What happened? What's likely to happen next?", but outright advocacy for Turkey's agenda in Washington. I don't think any of it amounts to much: no faction in Washington gives much thought to fighting terror, or we'd have seen evidence of that at some point in the past 17 years.

That said, yes it's likely that this thing is fueled by the parallel palace intrigues in D.C. and Riyadh, with crafty Erdogan playing all sides for fun and profit like always. I just disagree that this objectively is much of Turkey's business, if the Saudis had had the confidence to tell the Turks to sod off, and stick to policing the streets outside the consulate.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Oct 17 2018 18:29 utc | 151

Thanks Karlofi @ 149
Of course on one level you are right. No doubt you detect a slight hint of cynicism/ sarcasm in my comment, I did depressed for two days now i’m Getting my second wind !
But seriously I rase a valid point ! Those diplomatic bags were never ment for this insane ‘trafficing ! Why should a country’s follow, at this stage a treaty that is blatantly abused.
Would we sit at a card table in the full knowledge the other guy is cheating and yet insist on keeping to the rules our selves? The stakes are high in this game ! Turn the table over and deal with’m
Love your comment’s and rock steadyness ! Kudos.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 17 2018 18:36 utc | 152

Yeah, Right @115:

who is orchestrating all this outrage? ... So who is stoking it? Or am I supposed to accept that this is just mass hysteria writ large?

Yeah, Right @115:

WHY they have turned on him.

karlof1 @147:

IMO, we're witnessing a Succession Crisis ... the CIA wants it's man to regain his previous position as Clown Prince

AntiSpin @150:

This morning NPR went on a long, raging rampage against both MBS and the Saudis in general ... CIA? MI6? Koch bros?

b has already provided a satisfactory answer: Saudis haven't signed the arms deals.

b neglected to mention that they also haven't floated Aramaco either (which means big fees to Western banks).

If it's about succession then you'd have to wonder if CIA set up Khashoggi to trigger this crisis. That is possible ONLY IF it was concluded that MbS was UNLIKELY TO EVER sign the arms deals (he talked with Russia about S400's!!).

Then there's the possibility that Khashoggi was a CIA asset (the possibility of which has already been mooted). In that case, CIA hasn't squashed the media outrage because it serves as a lesson to MbS.

The combination of wanting to overthrow MbS -and- Khashoggi as a CIA asset leads back to Lorizon's theory that Khashoggi was given false assurances of his safety. (Lorizon thought that it was Erdogan that gave assurances - but maybe it was CIA! or BOTH!)

We can also ask if a strong Saudi monarchy is in the interests of US and Israel. As long as Saudi monarch is playing along, he may be tolerated, but when so much power is held by one individual there is undesirable risk (of policy changes) and instability. In this view, the Saudi King is just another ME dictator that is targeted with Muslim Brotherhood-led color revolution. Ironically, Saudi sovereignty depends on a multi-polar world order!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2018 19:01 utc | 153

@ jr.. clown prince better jump in bed with putin soon, or he is going to wish he never became the clown prince..

re lozions speculation... or the fiance was a turkish secret service asset and she made sure he followed thru on the saudi embassy appointment... too many shady possibilities to consider, lol.

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2018 19:18 utc | 154

Jackrabbit 153

I'd agree that the answers you posted are strong possibilities, but so far are only that -- we're some way, I think, from discovering the truth, and there's also a strong possibility that we never will do so.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Oct 17 2018 19:42 utc | 155

Erdogan himself and other members of his government have pointed fingers and made accusations. Many members of the alleged hit team were named. And one of the more interesting Twitter threads I've seen is one supposedly by a Khashoggi family member: be prepared to machine translate Arabic to English for many comments.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 16, 2018 6:01:50 PM | 88

accusations are not letting your hate for saudis interfere with what remain s of your judgement.
wheres the body?

Posted by: brian | Oct 17 2018 20:39 utc | 156

brian @156--

I have no hate for Saudis, per se, although I loathe the Kingdom like most sane people. As for the body, see my post on next thread where I link to the fact that one's not needed to prove murder.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2018 21:11 utc | 157

"It is highly likely" Theresa May said about Russia's guilt in the Kripal affair. On that basis, the Western "law-abiding democracies" imposed sanctions on "rogue" Russia.

"It is more than highly likely" that Saudi Arabia's leaders are guilty of Kashhoggi's murder. Where are the sanctions from "law abiding" Western democracies on the "non-democratic" Kingdom ?

I guess one is an independent country that is supposedly 'plotting' against the West, the other one is an obedient and rich puppet that just did another "childish" thing.

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 18 2018 9:39 utc | 158

I wonder if anyone in the world would dare go to a Saudi Consulate anymore...

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 18 2018 9:41 utc | 159

@158 virgile... that sums it up very well..thanks.. hopefully b will use it and qoute you...

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2018 10:12 utc | 160

If there weren't any recording ( proably illegally collected by the Turks), the dissapearance of Kashooggi would have died away quickly.
The Saudis underestimated the Turks's methods as they never expected that the sounds of their latest excutiorn will be exposed to the world. They thought the consulate was a safe place to make executions that leave no traces. For them it was business as usual.

It means that it is probably not the first time that Saudis executed other Saudis in consulates worldwide. An investigation of the dissapearance of other Saudis in Europe should be made in Saudi Consulates.

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 18 2018 10:48 utc | 161

@ virgile.... according to b, they have a history of this... i would take b’s word on this...

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2018 11:20 utc | 162

If the Turks have wired the consulate,it means that they knew about the plot to kill kashooggi.They left the journalist killed to be able to blackmail Saudi Arabia and the usa. If the wiring is proven, the Turks are accomplice to the murder.

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 18 2018 12:23 utc | 163


And b.urg k.ha.lifa is the tower of Babara.dur. Better yet the 21st Century tower of Babe.l. MbS could be Sau.ron or Him.rod.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 18 2018 15:33 utc | 164

NIM.ROD not him.rod.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 18 2018 15:34 utc | 165

The cover up isn't this 3-card Monte 'where is Waldo?' shiney object distraction. The cover up is WHY Khashoggi was disappeared.

More likely is Khashoggi represented a threat to royal Saudi business interests and to the shady Kushner-IL-KSA arms deals. ¿What is a slumlord son-in-law, whose father is a felon, doing making top-secret $100B arms deals with Isreal and KSA?! The sales commission for those arms deals is 1%. But did Kushner report his $1B payday? No. ¿Was it paid to the Brookfield Property group a month later to buy Kushner's bankrupt and over-priced 666-5th Avenue property. Most likely, yes!

Will you ever read that in the Daily 5 Minutes of Hate? No. It's all fake news, controlled dissent and clik bait. Winning!

E pluribus now get back to work.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Oct 19 2018 16:39 utc | 166

I know nothing about what happened but some people would be very embarrassed if he turned up alive but maybe not so well.

Posted by: willis forster | Oct 21 2018 3:44 utc | 167

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