Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 20, 2018

Trump's Staff Overrides His Policies - They Are A Dangerous 'Resistance'

Three recent publications claim that U.S. President Trump is not allowed to make policies, that his staff is sabotaging him as much as it can.

An anti-Trump author at the Washington Post, Greg Miller, just released a new book about Trump. The Post prints an excerpt:

‘The Apprentice’ book excerpt: At CIA’s ‘Russia House,’ growing alarm about 2016 election interference

Trump’s admiration for the leader of Russia was inexplicable and never wavered after taking office. He praised the Russian leader, congratulated him, defended him, pursued meetings with him, and fought virtually any policy or punitive measure that might displease him.

A trained intelligence operative, Putin understood the power of playing to someone’s insecurities and ego. On cue, he reciprocated with frequent praise for the president he had sought to install in the White House.

In phone conversations with Trump, Putin would whisper conspiratorially, telling the U.S. president that it wasn’t their fault that they could not consummate the relationship that each had sought. Instead, Putin sought to reinforce Trump’s belief that he was being undermined by a secret government cabal, a bureaucratic “deep state.”

“It’s not us. We get it,” Putin would tell Trump, according to White House aides. “It’s the subordinates fighting against our friendship.”

The Putin quote is probably genuine. But is it "playing to someone's insecurity and ego"? Or is it simply the truth?

A few lines later the author confirms that Putin is right. When Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May asked Trump to support her ridiculous 'Novichok' claims, Trump's underlings set out to further sabotage the relations with Russia:

During a weekend retreat at his Mar-a-Lago estate, Trump’s advisers persuaded him to support a plan to expel 60 suspected Russian intelligence operatives from the United States, telling him that Washington’s move would be matched in magnitude by allies in Europe.

Trump acquiesced, but his commitment unraveled on the trip back to Washington.

“Maybe we shouldn’t do this,” he said to deputy national security adviser Ricky L. Waddell during the short helicopter flight from Andrews Air Force Base to the White House on March 25.

The expulsions were set to be announced the next day in coordination with allies in Europe — an international show of resolve — and Trump was balking. Late that evening, Waddell scrambled to pull together a Situation Room meeting to confer with other top advisers on how to salvage the plan. White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly, who called in on a secure phone line, said that he would phone Trump at his residence. “I’ll convince him,” Kelly said.

Kelly succeeded. But when the expulsions were announced, Trump erupted. He had expected France, Germany and other countries each to match the U.S. total, rather than for the cumulative response from Europe to be roughly equal to that of the United States. Trump worried that Putin would see him as the aggressor and accused aides of misleading him.

Trump's aids did exactly what Putin lamented about. They sabotaged the personal relations between Trump and Putin by convincing him to expel a too high number of Russian embassy officials.

North Korea complained when Secretary of State Pompeo pressed for immediate nuclear disarmament. The Singapore Statement, signed by Kim Jong Un and Trump, foresees this as only the third step of a larger process. Kim Jong Un, similar to Putin, expressed his dismay over Pompeo's demands, while expressing confidence in Trump himself.

Also recently published was a book by Bob Woodward, which follows a similar theme as Miller's 'Apprentice':

Jim Mattis Compared Trump to ‘Fifth or Sixth Grader,’ Bob Woodward Says in Book

Mr. Woodward’s reporting adds another layer to a recurring theme in the Trump White House: frustrated aides who sometimes resort to extraordinary measures to thwart the president’s decisions — a phenomenon the author describes as “an administrative coup d’état.

(Woodward's book was well received by the anti-Trump 'resistance'. But few mentioned that Woodward searched for, but did not find any evidence for the alleged Trump-Russia collusion.)

The above book excerpts are confirmed by a quite ridiculous anonymous op-ed in the New York Times in which a senior officials in Trump's administration confirms that s/he and others sabotage Trump's policies:

[W]e believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The op-ed names two specific issues on which the staff sabotages Trump's initiatives:

[We] are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

The deep state, the bureaucrats and policy minions who staff the White House and the government agencies, are actively subverting the elected president. They publicly brag about it.

Trump campaigned for better relations with Russia. But as soon as he was sworn into office, an "administrative coup d’état" happened and the policies reverted to the opposite. He said that he wanted the U.S. out of Syria and out of Afghanistan, but the "steady state" prevented that. Trump signed an agreement with North Korea that promises peace before disarmament. Then his staff went out and tried to turn it into the opposite.

Trump is the elected president. It is his privilege and duty to determine the policies of his administration. Why is no public figure expressing concern about this subversion of democracy? How come no one protests?

There are suggestions that Trump is only faking the discontent about his staff. That the effectively pursued policies are the ones he really wants. The three accounts above do not support that idea.

This situation undermines Trump standing in international negotiations as nothing he signs can be taken for granted, unless his staff agrees to it. This sorry state of the state will also have repercussions in future elections. Why would anyone vote for Trump, or someone else, if an elected president is unable to enforce policies?

Trump and his party pursue extreme right wing policies that I do not support at all. He might well have some dangerous impulses that could cause unforeseen damage.

But is it really better to let these unaccountable policy operators override his choices? Should we trust certified hawks like Bolton, Pompeo or Mattis any more that him? Is war with Russia or North Korea preferable to peaceful relations?

Posted by b on September 20, 2018 at 14:51 UTC | Permalink


"Trump's Staff Overrides His Policies".

Now that really IS treason. No two ways about it.

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Sep 20 2018 15:16 utc | 1

Maybe Trump will convince Rand Paul (who was about the only politician who supported the recent Helsinki summit) to give up his senate seat and replace Kelly, Mattis or Bolton. Maybe then there would finally be someone from the administration on tv defending his Russia policy.

Posted by: Paul b | Sep 20 2018 15:20 utc | 2

I don't support many of Trump's policies (making peace with Russia, drawing down our wars not withstanding) and the man, to me, is a childish buffoon. But what's categorically worse than having a childish buffoon as a sitting president? A deep state cabal of neocons and neolibs cheered on by the left and MSM so emboldened by the success of their usurpation that they brag about it on the pages of the leading newspapers in the country. As much as pains me to say, it's the behavior of the left in America that is truly sickening in the whole sordid affair.

Posted by: Don Wiscacho | Sep 20 2018 15:25 utc | 3

As Steve Bannon memorably put it, there is no deep state; there's an in-your-face state:

“There is a cabal of Republic establishment figures who believe Donald Trump is not fit to be president of the United States. This is a crisis… I am not a conspiracy guy … I have said there is no deep state. It is an in-your-face state.”

But seriously, B:

Trump ... might well have some dangerous impulses that could cause unforeseen damage.

On foreign policy, at least, Trump's impulses seem a sh*t-ton less dangerous than those of the rest of the US Govt. His main weakness is Iran; but in that case, he's just riding along with the consensus view in Washington.

As far as the president's power is concerned, I have long suspected that he was not much more than a glorified salesman for the deep state; now I know. That's one good thing about Trump: it's all out in the open now. Anyone saying it's all nothing more than a 'conspiracy theory' from here on is just whistling in the dark.

We are run by Mandarins. Our votes don't matter.

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Sep 20 2018 15:33 utc | 4

It's his own fault. He should've and could've fired everyone from DAY ONE. He kept hold overs from all the previous administrations and now he's stuck with them. Trump PHUCKED up big time by not bringing in ALL of his supporters to fight for him and those that do are FIRED. So go suck on it Trumpy.

Posted by: Fernando Arauxo | Sep 20 2018 15:43 utc | 5

The CIA is not really in the business of collecting "intelligence." That "agency" is and always has been in the business of subverting or toppling other governments.

So they have finally gotten around to subverting the USSA government. Why am I not surprised.

Posted by: blues | Sep 20 2018 15:45 utc | 6

I thought it was excessively brave of Trump to talk about draining The Swamp before he had a firm grip on the reins of POTUS power. On the other hand, he'd been toying with the idea of running for POTUS for at least 10 years before he made his move so he had plenty of time to swot up on the pitfalls.

I still think Trump is the smartest person in the, or any, room. And so long as people such as Mattis remain over-confident enough to portray him as a "Fifth or Sixth Grader" I rate Trump's chances of pulling it off as better than 70%.

Lazy Old Hillary would have been infinitely worse than Trump.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 20 2018 15:45 utc | 7

What came to my mind when I read this good article, MB, is words from George Washington’s Farewell Address. He may have written to explain about the dangers of political parties, but it resonates exactly about what is occurring in this present state of American governance. “....cunning, ambitious,and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.....”.

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Sep 20 2018 15:49 utc | 8

Responsibility for his troubles rests with Trump thanks to those he nominated for senior positions within his administration. His recent remark that "I don't have an Attorney General" aims at Sessions numerous inactions that if acted upon would have changed the overall dynamic--pursuing publicly proven Clinton and DNC illegalities are the prime examples. Another example is the entire breakdown of what I'll call proper governance that began in 1963 and continues today in the form of the USSC nominee Kavanaugh's having lied to the Senate on several previous occasions that demand of Congress that he be impeached not confirmed, just as Bush/Cheney and crew required impeaching for their illegal invasion of Iraq; Obama's Kill List; and many similar examples both recent and longstanding.

But much of what we're seeing is presented in a different light as "The West Against the Rest or The West Against Itself?" in a Pepe Escobar essay. What the Deep State ignores is how its attacks on Trump are also attacks on itself that give populists of all flavors excellent arguments to dethrone all elites. Just a little more than 6 weeks till midterm elections that will alter the political chemistry within Congress and statehouses nationwide. Then we should look to see which way the resistance wind blows.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2018 15:50 utc | 9

Is it too nytimes op-ed to argue that doing it is one thing, releasing 100 books about it is another. These faceless mutants are bragging about how they control the state, not the elected officials. Maybe Putin is sympathetic due to his historical knowledge of Russia.

Posted by: Pespi | Sep 20 2018 15:55 utc | 10

blues@6 I wouldn't say finally.

JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters by James W. Douglass and

David Talbot's The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government

Posted by: financial matters | Sep 20 2018 16:00 utc | 11

No mention of the demand for unredacted communiques? Seems lit would divide out the infidels along the only line available- written law. If the NSA has all my comments saved, surely they have Feinstein’s too.

Posted by: TSP | Sep 20 2018 16:08 utc | 12

Assuming that the situation is as you describe it, B, which I doubt, still does not make Tronald look good. The problem then would be that he cannot find a way to control his subordinates. A leader who is not capable to do that is a bad leader.

Posted by: Pnyx | Sep 20 2018 16:11 utc | 13

> .....after taking office.
> “It’s the subordinates fighting against our friendship.”
> The Putin quote is probably genuine

Genuine? Mixing "friendship" and "subordinates", in other words openly telling Trump their professional duties and responsibilities to their nations are secondary to their friendship, "bromance"? I do not think it is genuine.

More importantly, if those quotes WERE genuine, wouldn't it mean top-level espionage is being committed in USA right now? The book claims that someone wiretapped the acting POTUS phone line, recorded or at least eavesdropped and stenographed his talks with another state President, and then started leaking those talks left and right.

Remind me again, what was ever considered allegedly wrong with Watergate hotel???

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 20 2018 16:24 utc | 14

No, we are not ruled by mandarins. We are ruled by plutocrats. They decide the policies, and the mandarins carry out what the plutocrats decide.

Posted by: lysias | Sep 20 2018 16:42 utc | 15

I would remind folks that both factions support global private finance and ongoing empire. The kabuki we are being fed is trying to make bad actors look like good actors.

I see this kabuki as part of the throwing Americans under the bus and preparation for debt default.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 20 2018 16:43 utc | 16

good post and point b.. thanks for stating it... the 'steady state'.. yeah.. corporatocracy / plutocracy at work..

"Why is no public figure expressing concern about this subversion of democracy? How come no one protests?" they are too busy following the msm lead in blaming russia for the subversion of democracy and.... they are all protesting on the internut!

"unaccountable policy operators..." seems like this is who is running the usa now.. big money.. mercers, kochs and etc. etc.. americans seem oblivious to it.. they are so concerned about trumps connections to russia, they are in a blind frenzy and unable to tell there head from their toe..

@16 psychohistorian.. i agree with you..

haven't read all the comments here yet..

Posted by: james | Sep 20 2018 16:59 utc | 17

In a good murder mystery the "Butler done it". We haven't got as far as that yet but it seems a lot of low-level employees will be thrown under the bus to save the top - and real - deep state.

Posted by: stonebird | Sep 20 2018 17:19 utc | 18

b: "Why is no public figure expressing concern about this subversion of democracy? How come no one protests?"

Trump is the Republican Obama.

'Trumptards' blame others for the failings of their hero just like 'Obamabots' did. This is not an accident. Apologists are an important part of the faux populist leadership model.

Trump and Obama are only heros if you believe that USA is democracy and the democratically elected 'populist' truely represents his/her base. That is a fantasy.

Partisan battles focusing on personalities get people to invest emotionally in "the system". A system which is NOT democratic and doesn't work for the people.

I have made these points many times over the last year. Sadly, people nod their heads and continue to engage on terms set by the establishment.

Caitlin Johnston provides more color in her essay entitled "We are being played":

You don’t have to get into any deep conspiratorial rabbit hole to consider the possibility that all this drama and conflict is staged from top to bottom. Commentators on all sides routinely crack jokes about how the mainstream media pretends to attack Trump but secretly loves him because he brings them amazing ratings. Anyone with their eyes even part way open already knows that America’s two mainstream parties feign intense hatred for one another while working together to pace their respective bases into accepting more and more neoliberal exploitation at home and more and more neoconservative bloodshed abroad. They spit and snarl and shake their fists at each other, then cuddle up and share candy when it’s time for a public gathering. Why should this administration be any different?


The more I study US politics, the less useful I find it to think of it in political terms. The two-headed one party system exists to give Americans the illusion of choice while advancing the agendas of the plutocratic class which owns and operates both parties, yes, but even more importantly it’s a mechanism of narrative control. If you can separate the masses into two groups based on extremely broad ideological characteristics, you can then funnel streamlined “us vs them” narratives into each of the two stables, with the white hats and black hats reversed in each case. Now you’ve got Republicans cheering for the president and Democrats cheering for the CIA, for the FBI, and now for a platoon of covert John McCains alleged to be operating on the inside of Trump’s own administration. Everyone’s cheering for one aspect of the US power establishment or another.

Whom does this dynamic serve? Not you.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 20 2018 17:23 utc | 19

Hudson has written a long article on the 10th anniversary of the contrived 2008 financial crisis laying out the upcoming financial crisis it will fall to Trump to solve--or not. It's this upcoming crisis whose proper solution pits the interests of the 99% versus the 1% that has the Deep State generating as many distractive Culture War issues as it can on top of its attempts to begin a second Cold War to somehow deter the ascendance of Multipolarity. These two domestic and foreign crises are distinct threats to the 1%'s hegemony and its perceived sovereignty--the latter perhaps better expressed as Class Privileges/Entitlements.

Populism's alive and growing throughout Neoliberal Land as the first essay I linked to describes. Genuine resistance within the Outlaw US Empire is congealing as a Class War focused on defeating Neoliberal policies, the current figurehead for such policies being Trump. What the 1% don't understand about their attacks on Trump is they embolden populists of all stripes, since despite their political differences all agree on the great necessity of Draining The Swamp.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2018 17:37 utc | 20

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 20, 2018 1:23:50 PM | 19

Partisan battles focusing on personalities get people to invest emotionally in "the system". A system which is NOT democratic and doesn't work for the people.

Agree completely. There's nothing political about these "politics", fake-populist politicians are just another kind of celebrity (thus Trump fits in well), cable news is a (highly toxic) genre of entertainment, and partisan Repbots and Dembots aren't political people at all, but competing celebrity or sports fan clubs. None of them cares about any aspect of reality, which is why the system can commit such horrendous real-world crimes; for the political class these crimes aren't real. They're all sociopaths, which is the only way it's possible to be a partisan of either flavor of the Corporate One-Party.

And that's how unelected operatives and the NYT can openly express such contempt for democracy and the open society without fear of provoking any significant reaction from the people: For the kinds of people who read the NYT, such things are meaningless abstractions. Any of them would happily endorse Hitler-level crimes (which the US is very close to anyway) on the part of their "team".

Posted by: Russ | Sep 20 2018 17:44 utc | 22

If Trump is a fourth of fifth grader, looks like we have a third grade coup d etat. As you pointed out, these people are not the brightest lights but perhaps the most easily bribed/threatened? I suspect a hidden hand behind the insurrection rather than a stunning example of bureaucratic unity. Ditto for the rash of anti Trump 'literature'. Woodward crawled in bed with the ruling elite decades ago.

Trump is probably not the first president to be 'Trumped' by his bureaucratic minions?n Obama didn't keep a single campaign promise.during his eight disappointing years. Perhaps not all of his betrayal of the electorate is because he was just another lying weasel.

Posted by: CD Waller | Sep 20 2018 17:54 utc | 23

Russ @22--

The Outlaw US Empire long ago surpassed "Hitler-level crimes" and continues its rampage at home and abroad.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2018 18:10 utc | 24

Jackrabbit, karlof1,

I appreciate your contributions and comments. I have found an expression which unfortunately has a bumper sticker quality to it, but helps me to see if the person I am talking to might appreciate the longer type of expositions you both put forward.

“Stop looking left and right, and look up and down.” I find myself repeating it often. Sometimes it’s just the pinprick that can start a conversation or thought process that leads to the realizations that you and Ms Johnston clearly state.

Posted by: NotBob | Sep 20 2018 18:22 utc | 25

karlof1 @24

They haven't quite reached the point of de jure death camps yet, but that's the only thing lacking. But they are perpetrating a more gradual global gas chamber with poison-based agriculture and other industrial poisons.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 20 2018 18:35 utc | 26

Seems to me the immediate question following the Woodward and op-ed release last week was just how deranged is Trump. Is he at the level of Nixon in the final days of Watergate, or on the way, what. In just one short week that derangement now seems to have changed to increasing strength. It is now significantly less popular to demonize and mock Trump, in my view, and the man himself has indicated positions of strength in supporting what's happening in the Koreas as well as a "we'll see" position re Syria. I am not a Trump fan, or anybody's fan, but it does appear Trump is gaining strength instead of losing it. The Mueller investigation is weakening; the FBI organization is losing it to more revelations of prejudiced behavior and now open rebellion against a president and the House Investigative Committee. Further, as a recent piece by Van Buren in TAC indicates, deplorables at least have somebody in the government to play the maverick card against The System. The Trump forces may take the midterms.

Posted by: Sid2 | Sep 20 2018 18:46 utc | 27

Jr @ 19 said:"Trump and Obama are only heros if you believe that USA is democracy and the democratically elected 'populist' truely represents his/her base. That is a fantasy."

"Partisan battles focusing on personalities get people to invest emotionally in "the system". A system which is NOT democratic and doesn't work for the people."

Jr, you nailed it.

Forget ideology, follow the $, you'll understand more..

Posted by: ben | Sep 20 2018 18:50 utc | 28


That's a great encapsulation. Thanks!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 20 2018 19:02 utc | 29

An excellent example of the woes that beset the 99% within the Outlaw US Empire is provided by an event never likely to be hosted by Trump or any other Imperial politico since the policies recapped by Putin at today's Eurasian Women's Forum aren't allowed by the 1%. In fairness to Trump, Duopoly Neoliberals see such policies as anathema to their agenda, which is explained within the linked Hudson essay. Imagine how well similar policy proposals would fly with the 99%. Also note that such policies have been proposed going back to the New Deal Age.

Much of the world's passing the Outlaw US Empire when it comes to supporting, empowering citizenry in ways that strengthen nations in numerous ways. Comparatively, Trump's policies seek to further exploit, degrade and disempower citizens, particularly women. For those who know the lineage of domestic US policy, the contrast between Putin's speech and the reality existing in America couldn't be starker.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2018 19:14 utc | 30

It's a little premature to be sure what Trump is up to, especially before we see whether he plays an October surprise card. The huge increases in the military budget and the program of unilateral economic warfare by presidential fiat suggests that Putin and Kim are getting played. Subordinates are plausible deniability, but they are still subordinates. Nixon went to China and did some so-called liberal stuff domestically...but only a fool thought Nixon was a peace president. What Trump will do once he's safely past midterm is really open.

Clinton thinks he might clean house. She has the same blind spot as Trump about how wonderful the economy is. But Trump's failure to make any difference argues for a low turnout on the sensible grounds that elections don't make any difference. Without a high turnout, Trump keeps both House and Senate, and it's the Democrats who take the hit from the left. The professionally dim Corey Robin is once again thinking realignment election. But it's likely the Democrats who are realigned out along with the whole tedious business of electoral politics the rich people are thoroughly tired of.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 20 2018 19:18 utc | 31

"I see this kabuki as part of the throwing Americans under the bus and preparation for debt default."-So says Psychohistorian.

Why would the creditors, which is who the oligarchs are, work for a debt default?

Then we have ZeroHedge which has identified the real problem with Washington- it is run by Communists, organised as "Democratic Socialists". It is they who are slowing down the President's agenda.
Yeah right! Its the Commies (pretending to be democratic socialists). It always has been and to prove it we have an Indian immigrant who works part time for the State Department.
This sort of shit wouldn't work in a novel or a movie- nobody would credit it- but it goes down well on the internet.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 20 2018 19:21 utc | 32

It is terrible that they are doing this to him, but what did Trump expect when he hired Bolton, Pompeo, and Haley?

Posted by: Jenn | Sep 20 2018 19:43 utc | 33

"......But few mentioned that Woodward searched for, but did not find any evidence for the alleged Trump-Russia collusion......."

That is completely irrelevant. Mueller and his staff are the only prosecutors privy to all of the information related to a possible conspiracy by Trump to defaud the US. Trump may not have colluded with the Russians, however, even if Manafort, Kirshner and Donald Jr. failed to reach an agreement with Russian representatives at the Trump Tower meeting to exchange help in the form of dirt (emails) on HRC for (Magnitsky) sanctions relief, it's illegal to attempt to conspire with the Russian governemnt - or their representatives. Mueller more than likely is building a case for conspiracy.

According to Putin:

".....“It’s not us. We get it,” Putin would tell Trump, according to White House aides. “It’s the subordinates fighting against our friendship.”......"

Vladimir Putin is not only a ruthless killer, but a geopolitical master. He is not interested in "friendship" with Trump. Putin is interested in sanctions relief, retaining Russia's sphere of influence in its near abroad (i.e., Ukraine, Balarus etc.), challenging the US on the world stage (a multipolar world i.e., Syria) and defanging NATO. Most of this is outlined in the 2008 Medvedev Doctrine. During the campaign, Trump supported many of these initiatives which is why Putin helped elect Trump.

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 20 2018 19:45 utc | 34

FYI--Apparently now you cannot provide a link to the President of Russia's official website and have your comment auto-post; instead, it goes into the Cloud's penalty box. Never had that occur until today.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 20 2018 19:50 utc | 35

We believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic

Trump is no Gaius Iulius Caesar, but those guys of the "steady state" are certainly up to the liberatores.

Trump is the elected president. It is his privilege and duty to determine the policies of his administration. Why is no public figure expressing concern about this subversion of democracy? How come no one protests?

Have you ever heard of the term "civil war"? The country is simply divided, the republic is gone.

Posted by: vk | Sep 20 2018 20:02 utc | 36

@ bevin who wrote
Why would the creditors, which is who the oligarchs are, work for a debt default?

Your oligarchs don't now own credit as much as they own things and so time for the Boom/Bust cycle. It is how consolidation and purge of mildly elite who are troublesome is undertaken.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 20 2018 20:05 utc | 37

Why is no public figure expressing concern about this subversion of democracy

because inside the beltway there's no meaningful comprehension of what representative government even is. it's just inflated budgets and a hierarchy replete with minions and their smug satisfaction with it all.

i mean, since 911, why is Matthew Hoh the only government employee who's resigned in protest to criminal US policy?

Posted by: john | Sep 20 2018 20:10 utc | 38

From Keith Preston of Attack the System:

“Regardless of how you feel about the son of a bitch... it’s becoming pretty hard to ignore the fact that the establishment, personified by both major parties, the legacy media, and the so called intelligence community, fucking hates President Donald J. Trump….”

So why do the heroic imperialists in the “Steady State” despise... [him]... so much? My theory, if I could distill it down to a single sentence; Donald Trump sucks at imperialism. If there is one thing the establishment has come to hate more than the dreadful Isolationist (“No! Not peace!”) it’s a sloppy imperialist

“As a friend of mine said recently, “the government is worse than the mafia, the army is worse than terrorists, and cops are worse than criminals.” Or as I wrote in a recent blog post, the “international community” is just an agglomeration of crime families writ large.

Those seem to me to be the points that anarchists need to be continually emphasizing, rather than all this do-gooder stuff like “The government should raise the minimum wage and give us free healthcare!”

Maybe they should, and maybe they shouldn’t but, at best, it would seem to me that “social activism” should only be a bridge to challenging the legitimacy of the state/ruling class itself. It’s the same way a lot of right-libertarians/an-caps only want everything to be about guns, taxes, and bitcoins.”

Posted by: anon | Sep 20 2018 20:30 utc | 39

b. Would it be possible to put the name of the contributor at the top of the post rather than at the bottom? That way I don't have to wade through the time-wasting shit by the resident trolls before finding that out. Other sites - Mondoweiss, SST, Off-Guardian, for instance - have that format.

Posted by: dynkyd | Sep 20 2018 21:46 utc | 40

"Why would the creditors, which is who the oligarchs are, work for a debt default?"

The creditors who would suffer are not the oligarchs, but ordinary people who have their money in pension funds and mutual funds, namely those lucky enough to have a pension entitlement or some savings to invest. These people are known on Wall Street as “lunch” i.e. ripe for consumption. They were the ones who suffered in 2008. The oligarchs, as you call them, - I prefer the 1% - are also creditors but are always tipped off when a bust is going to come and sell off their equities and bonds before it happens. The investment banks, who are the real oligarchs, have a quadrillion $ or more of outstanding derivatives on their books that would blow them and the economy apart if these bets – for that is what derivatives are – were called in. Investment bankers so far get to keep their fortunes if their banks go under – they have no skin in the game.

The stock market has been inflated by quantitative easing (great term that – sounds like a giant bowel movement) which they can get away with because the inflation that should be automatic and over 50% is absorbed by the rest of the world through the magic of the petrodollar. Which is why, I guess, they are actively engaged in preserving it.

Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 20 2018 22:26 utc | 41

Trump appointed these people who are sabotaging him.
For a long time, AG Sessions has been permitting an essentially criminal conspiracy among top level FBI managers to destroy Trump. The only thing I can think of, is that ALL of these people have dirt on each other, and everybody has to watch out and preserve the corrupt system.

Posted by: Xeno | Sep 20 2018 22:27 utc | 42

@ 19 Jackrabbit

Good stuff. Thank you. I will take a leaf from psychohistorian’s book and go back to 1913 and the creation of the FED as the beginning of the end of American democracy.

Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 20 2018 22:39 utc | 43

Draining the Swamp cannot be taken seriously. Trump installed in the Trump Cabinet, Swamp Creatures through and through, most notably Goldman Sachs dudes we've seen in Dubya Bush, Obama and now Drumpf.

Also, we see nothing of any draining at this point and but simply an assault on the commons (and a gift giving for the rich) as would be expected from any boilerplate Republican asshole.

Now foreign policy may be his strong suit but, there has been nothing much to impress here either. Just follow Israel.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 20 2018 23:15 utc | 44

I was watching a documentary the other day about spy technology history.
One item ws about a gift a Russian ambassador made to a US ambassador and it had a hidden type of microphone Americans weren't able to discover because it had no wires, required no protruding parts out in the open, and did not need any power! Mind you that was all around the Sixties or even earlier!
WAT was that? Alien? LOL!
Well it was standard KGB research it seems for the time.

But what the russians done? They hadcrafter a resonant cavity from a metal and hid it in a painging or ornament which they gifted to the American Ambassador of some state and turned a powerfull radio array towards it. All vibrations that the resonant cavity received were beong picked up by the Russians thus eavesdropping everything in the Ambassadors office.

Well, why did I make this post here?
Isn't it about Donald Trump?
For some reason when I saw this item in the documentary, DOnald Trump immediatelly came to my mind!
Not just Donald Trump, but his Real Estate and ...The Mossad!

Well I don't know if you can specialy build real estate so someone can eavesdropp with safety but as hell you can build some you can later demolish panake style like the buildings in 9/11 right?
So what's difficult about putting some pre designed elements on in any building, for such a big real estate/constructor guy like DOnald Trump, especially if Mossad wants this kind of service desperatelly? (eavesdropping on the USA)


Posted by: Greece | Sep 20 2018 23:15 utc | 45

b: Trump and his party pursue extreme right wing policies that I do not support at all. He might well have some dangerous impulses that could cause unforeseen damage.

You seem hesitant tonight b. I think the issue is warmongering which is a bit like any other deviant practice - it takes years to learn and addict to "properly" and Trump simply has not been in that environment, in contrast to say Hillary who began to enjoy it maybe with Yugoslavia i.e. the power to kill. Trump is too old to convert to war porn...

Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 20 2018 23:21 utc | 46

Hillary enjoyed destroying Yugoslavia and murdering thousands of Orthodox Christians in favor of Bosnian Muslims. She could not contain her glee over the horrific murder of Ghadaffi and the obliteration of Libya. An obliteration which left a power vacuum providing an open invitation for Al Qaeda to gladly accept.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 20 2018 23:30 utc | 47

Seamus Padraig #4

That's one good thing about Trump: it's all out in the open now. Anyone saying it's all nothing more than a 'conspiracy theory' from here on is just whistling in the dark.

I agree but you seriously underestimate the significance of your statement. This is Trump's #1 mission and he is the right man for the job. Whether Trump is a deep state asset or not does not really matter. The man is a human wrecking ball. As a former real estate developer he knows how to demolish before building anything new. He makes vassal states want to cut their reigns, break transatlantic ties and escape the madness imposed on them. Countries are dumping the petrodollar in favor of gold and local currencies for international trade. Trump is the catalyst that accelerates the death of the US empire.

Posted by: Joost | Sep 21 2018 2:22 utc | 48

may you live in interesting times

Posted by: bob | Sep 21 2018 2:36 utc | 49

fast freddy @46:

Regarding Yugoslavia, Madeleine Albright was the point man.

Posted by: Ian | Sep 21 2018 3:14 utc | 50

A few thoughts on comment from Keith Preston of Attack the System via anon at @38 above: “Regardless of how you feel about the son of a bitch... it’s becoming pretty hard to ignore the fact that the establishment, personified by both major parties, the legacy media, and the so called intelligence community, fucking hates President Donald J. Trump….” [because?] “Donald Trump sucks at imperialism.”

I would add that many liberal-esque commoners also were inclined or conditioned to hate Trump with a passion, or, many of milder stuff, not inclined to visceral hatred, merely registered shocked disbelief that such a 'buffoon', such a 'pathetic creature', could ascend to the Presidency, sullying the august office, unlike the people's favorite Obama, or the charming rapist Clinton, or the macho man mission accomplished Bush.

Also, while some highly placed in the FBI and CIA seem to “f...g hate” Trump, it is not clear that this “hatred” encompasses all of the 17 'intelligence' outfits, let alone their members. Presumably many of those in the bowels of these organizations would like strong borders and swamp draining, for example, and were not fans of the pathological Presidents that preceded Trump.

That “Donald Trump sucks at imperialism” is a cute way of saying that his primary allegiance is to the concept and strengthening of the United States and its national sovereignty. To the extent that this is Trump's genuine goal, it is a goal that is inconsistent with, and to some extent directly collides with, powerful transnational ideologies and power structures.

However, there is more than imperialism inspired hatred at work: There is fear, and concern for self-preservation. . As written elsewhere, the US imperial system is riddled with people who have committed high crimes of many varieties. Mrs. Clinton's remark along the lines of 'if he gets in we'll hang', is indicative of a large 'community' of concern.

There is another aspect to Trump that should not be underestimated: the near global reach mind control system that has been in place for decades has depended for its 'success' on extreme domination of the 'news' in the broadest sense of that word. Trump's leadership role in continual cutting criticism of the 'legacy' fake news media is reminiscent of the H. C. Anderson story of the naked emperor. He's naked! They LIE. CNN for example seems to be losing audience at a rate competitive with a discharging skunk.

Jim Stone Freelance has pointed out that an obscure law, which for decades made it illegal for Americans to actively ensure fair election results, giving advantage to the best cheaters, has recently been overturned by the courts. Stone thinks this will advantage Trump.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Sep 21 2018 3:26 utc | 51

b. Would it be possible to put the name of the contributor at the top of the post rather than at the bottom? That way I don't have to wade through the time-wasting shit...
Posted by: dynkyd | Sep 20, 2018 5:46:38 PM | 39

Why not start from the bottom of the page and scroll up?
Random comments rarely culminate in a gripping climax.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 21 2018 6:18 utc | 52

what do you think of "Q's" persistent meme "Trust the Plan"; "where we go one, we go all"?

I'm a first time poster so don't know if this kind of thing has alredy been discussed, but the theory that a group of military men - fed up with the globalist cabal who put in place the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama crime families - urged Trump to run for President and overthrow the globalist regimes - aren't they any where to be found now, advising him?

Posted by: Marilynne | Sep 21 2018 6:38 utc | 53

Trump is the first president of the USA that has not been chosen by the "Deep State since JFK. He has many policies that I think are completely insane. The ending of the Iran deal , moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and starting a trade war with China to name three. He does however represent a small beginning in creating a real democracy in the USA. Disregarding the people who surround him like Bolton and Pompeo, people who the deep state have managed to inflict on him, Trumps intentions re Russia, Korea and Syria are to be admired

Posted by: Ike | Sep 21 2018 6:50 utc | 54

Trump is his own man and just like Obama he has minions spread garbage that he is being undermined and the bad stuff is not his fault. Trump showed his true colors when he stocked up on neocons and warmongers and gave the military $100 billion when they were asking for 50. His meetings with Kim and Putin were just theater as Trump gleefully puts more sanctions on Russia and has done nothing but threaten pain for those cheating on sanctions to help North Korea. His body language and emphatic delivery, and sometimes glee, when announcing these new sanctions, and his telling Russia to get out of Syria and give back Crimea, belie the fiction that Trump is being forced to do so. If that was the case he could have had his minions announce it. One can see the insincerity when he claims the US is getting out of Syria and his confident matter of fact delivery when threatening to bomb Syria over what he knows is a fake gas attack. It was no accident that Trumps 2 hurried missile strikes on Syria happened as Israel was butchering Palestinians thus diverting attention from the dastardly deeds. Trump has been best buddies with Israel and Saudi Arabia and stays mum on Israel bombing Syria and Saudi Arabia killing over tens of thousands of innocent people in Yemen and creating the humanitarian crisis there. There's the bonus of weapons sales to those "humanitarian" regimes. Up until recently organizations have ignored the inhumane UN sanctions that forbade sending medicines into North Korea and nothing was said. Suddenly last month ALL of them stopped. Somebody gave them the word stop or else. Trump says nothing of the efforts to scuttle better relations between the US and North Korea or the fake news that the Norks are still making missiles and nukes offered with no proof. While the US is sabotaging the efforts North and South Korea are making great progress which makes me expect South Korea is going to be hit sanctions for "unfair trade." South Korea could defuse the whole thing and announce they are taking possession of the Norths nukes but they know the US would punish them badly as the the US does not want any nukes in the Korea's and needs a boogie man north to justify it's out sized military presence in the area.

Once Trump sat in the big boy chair in the oval office the focus of Making America Great Again switched to continue the drive for US world domination by destroying the economies of the competition and create world wide chaos with sanctions, tariffs, and local currency destruction making the world come crawling to the US to save them. Thus turning the cleanest dirty shirt in the laundry to snow white.

Posted by: snedly arkus | Sep 21 2018 8:31 utc | 55

Kim is not fooled that Trump is sincere about having peace. Kim knows full well Trump is double crossing him but is playing the game and sending glowing letters to Trump in the vain hope of getting some positive action. Kim has seen Trump in action and knows full well it's either suck up to him or criticize and get punished.

Posted by: snedly arkus | Sep 21 2018 8:45 utc | 56

Marilynne @52:

It's really difficult to comment on this "Q" character. Some say it's real, while others claim it's all fraud, a distraction for the unwashed masses from reaching for their rifles (i.e. "LARPING") until the elites have completed their plundering. The 50k+ sealed indictments could also be another distraction. Trump is still a puppet, regardless if there is any truth to a secret group of the military trying to 'right the ship'. However, the MSM treatment of Trump is what still gives me pause. In any case, we will find out the truth.

Posted by: Ian | Sep 21 2018 9:35 utc | 57

The "hatred" against Trump is easily explained as corralling people into useless "caring" and partisanship with some buying into it and others either supporting him or giving him the benefit of doubt because of it.

It is always done this way with a negative tone/"hatred" for one side and with a positive tone/"love" for another side and both the intention and the result is the same: to waste people's attention, create animosity, divide and conquer.

One can flip it or replace the players (Greens, Libertarians, Anarchists, whatever) and it doesn't matter one bit because the result is the same and as elementary as if one said 2+1=3 rather than 1+2=3 or instead 1.5+1.5=3

It works exactly the same with any ideology or belief or any opinion which can be given a name or anything of any potential popularity.

Anybody who still falls for it is being played hard. Sadly it is in the nature of normal decent humans to nearly automatically believe in it (which particular side or option an individual then chooses is completely unimportant).

The first lesson is that this plays and preys on absolutely all sides. Not only one or two parties (like R or D) or one or two ideologies (like capitalism or communism, both confirmation bias fictions like all ideologies are) but as many as possible (and that usually means all).

Doesn't matter if it's a group as small as a few dozen, in the UK that was plenty enough to spend resources on getting undercover people in, agents lying to the extent of having deceitful personal relationships like marriages or similar.

In addition people still don't read or understand the few Snowden papers that ended up released and they're only gathering bitrot now.

Humanity is in much bigger trouble than we realize simply because of this poor state of affairs which keeps us down and seems inescapable. It is not a win-win situation, it is a lose-lose situation, it kills us.

We need magnitudes better systems of cooperation and governance if we are to survive ourselves and then perhaps start to unlock our true potential.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 21 2018 11:52 utc | 58

Marilynne @53

The trouble with Qanon is that postings are cryptic, ambiguous, unprovable and prone to confirmation bias. This is the type of technique that mediums (spiritualists), salesman, and con-artists use.

If what Qanon saying is true then why make the postings? Surely, secrecy is paramount.

If what Qanon is saying is just a hoax, then that's a huge commitment in terms of time and effort for nothing other than attention. Doesn't Qanon have a job or family? Or just something better to do.

If what Qanon is saying is false then the reason would be to mislead and to disarm. You can all relax, no matter what happens Trump is gong to 'win', yah! Even when Trump is being impreached, imprisoned or shot, you'll be waiting for the final twist (i.e. there won't be one).

There is no evidence or reason to believe Qanon's posting other than wishful thinking. So, it seems to me that it is far more likely that Qanon's message is deliberately false and achieving it's aim.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 21 2018 12:21 utc | 59

> commitment in terms of time and effort
> Doesn't Qanon have a job or family? Or just something better to do.

Why would you think Qanon is one single person rather than a team?

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 21 2018 13:04 utc | 60

Arioch @60

I don't discount that Qanon is a team, but Qanon essentially presents as a 'person'. Posts can become clumsy if you go into detail of of he/she/they.

As some 'entity' that is telling/leaking the truth or promoting a hoax, then Qanon is more likely to be an 'individual'.

As some 'entity' that is attempting to mislead or disarm then Qanon is more likely to be a 'team'.

So, if you believe Qanon is a 'team' then it is much more likely (imo) that Qanon is a psyopps exercise which is misleading and disarming Trump's supporters.

But since there is no evidence or real reason to believe anything about Qanon (or anything that Qanon says) then such speculation is meaningless.

Your post, Arioch, (if I may say so) essentially has the effect of giving Qanon unwarranted credibility and focuses on a real trivial aspect of my post.

I would like Qanon to be real and (more importantly the message to be real) but I would also like Santa Claus to be real. Wanting it so doesn't make it so.

Trump probably isn't equipped to deal with the deep state (what individual could be? although, perhaps Trump has done better than could reasonably be expected) but he certainly doesn't stand much chance now that he appears to be totally isolated.

Hoping/trusting that Qanon message (of a hidden campaign that will vindicate and save Trump) is total fantasy.

Only the 'mass of (US) people' can save Trump, only the 'mass of people' can call an end to the wars, only the 'mass of people' can put an end to the machinations of the deep state. However, the 'mass of people' are hopelessly divided.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 21 2018 13:37 utc | 61

may you manage to live through interesting times

@bob #49

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 21 2018 14:17 utc | 62

@ADKC #61

Now that Judge Kavanaugh can help Trump against escalation of Muller's hoax Trump can become more active. And mid-term elections might show the dynamics, if Trump gains support he might go offensive, if not - then he would focus on quietly keeping himself to the term's end without getting arrested.

When Trump became a real candidate many people triumphed him as American Putin, and I was saying "Look at Putin if you adore him so. Look at his first years in office starting with 2000. Notice that Putin was FSB head 2 years before getting office and thus had many connections in Kremlin immediately ready when elected. And then look how little did Putin do in his first 2000-2004 term, but his own survival".

So I did not had a lot of hope in Trump. Some win, maybe even breakthrough here and there, but net result would still be pro establishment course. And today evaluating Trump's performance we can compare him with, if that is our benchmark, Putin's achievements of 2000-2002.

I guess 2019 would be setting the record, one way or another. Either Trump managed to mobilize support through Judge K. and mid-elections, and would dare to push stronger, or he would not.

At very least we are still breathing air, not radioactive smokes, as Hillary called for.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 21 2018 14:27 utc | 63

Let me tell you one more thing.

You try to analyze QAnon's message assuming it is one continuous homogenous message.
You assume QAnon being some single entity - collective or individual - with the same agenda.

I frankly did not follow QAnon story, but my impression was that he popped up on some AIB (anonymous image board).
And on AIB - unless QAnon was namefag/tripfag - literally anyone could post with QAnon name tag.
Just like here on MoA I or anyone can post with ADKC moniker.

If to assume that QAnon individual (or small group) planned to make highly risky job of leaking some rumours/facts/documents - and important but small set - then quickly disappear before getting caught?

Then we would have a well-promoted "QAnon" trademark abandoned.
What would prevent any different group (or even several competing groups) to assume the brand and to use it to rubberstamp and plant their own narratives for their own agendas?

Remember Huccifier and so-called Huccifier 2.0

AIBs are famous with their games about identity. You have to use your brains to guess if posts 111 and 222 were written by a "same person" or not. Or, to the "core values" of anonymous, you should detach from perceived identity and only look at the message itself without guessing anything about the author of it.

From that perspective, it is not even necessary that QAnon's message was actually one message, and that even if one, it is not necessary it still is the same as QAnon's message year ago.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 21 2018 14:50 utc | 64

Antioch @63 & @64

I don't disagree (or agree) with anything you said. But, if you're putting any hope in the Qanon message that would be foolish.

Unless things have changed, Kavanagh hasn't been confirmed and still has a way to go. Even if Kavanagh gets through who's to say he will be that much help for Trump. The confirmation is as much a demonstration of power realities as a confirmation. What lessons is Kavanagh absorbing from all this?

Trump administration is almost totally devoid of Trump supporters. Trump is almost totally isolated. His personality helped allow this to happen. There is no Trump 'team' in the White House.

Trump doesn't have as long as Putin. Putin is someone who fundamentally understood the Russian state and what was happening to it. Putin was a young man when he came to power. Trump is an old man with all the frailties of old age. Trump is being worn down and doesn't have more than a few years (of some kind) of energy left. Trump is no Putin, I'm afraid.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 21 2018 17:18 utc | 65

When the least expected expect the unexpected
Dog Eat Dog.

Q@non initially an US AirFarce CyberOperation.
Joined forces with M16 and based (likely a legal front) operations out of Jersey Islands UK, opposite French coasts.
The "operation" was consisted of a site that has ways to bypass google filters and spiders so it remains a blackhole on the internet. Notorius for it's misspelling headline posts, which are a code in to themselves.
Initially possibly a honeypot for UFO whistleblowers, site was registered under a Linda M. Howe which seems like possible "targeted individual" (search this term on the internet). After 1997/98 the site was sold to unknowns, probably the mil. guys.
Site used persona creation/management software, but it was suggested it was running machine inteligence. It morphed to an A.I. project trying to mimic human inteligne. Internet users suggested it was also partly cooperating with the Massad since as they have been numerus complains it utilised scripts and blocked negative opinions and intel about Isnotreal.Other possible actors behind (some suggest the main contributors) possibly the British psy warfare bureau that is disguised as a psych. clinique in the UK.
it has been suggested that the Operators are crazier than the patients.
The operation was accused iof regularly planting viruses and trojans at unsuspected visitors of the site, later using to spy on them in patterns that would try to drive these users crazy. Most used type of A.I. was harrasment method of repeating in text actions of the user that was infected, but not at the time he/she was online, in order to possibly create/enhance mania and depression on the unsuspected victims. The site's "weaponry", evolved to gang stalking its users through the internet and also use predictive A.I. (Very strong A.I. that requires serious machinery to be operting underneath it). Q@non is a machine learning product, injected with subject matter derived of decades of use of the site by its users that logically has been parsed in a database and it's a type of cyber operated psychological type of weapon. it can use multiple personalities, code structuring, decoding. It operates parallel to Youtube algorythms and possible user searches on google. It possibly can detect singular user postings in non mainstream online media and certai nly (as it isassumed) can parse contents of supplied lists of users on social media. It can use predictive A.I and is trained in forming coherent discussions. The project must be linked also with Hollywood media promotion elements.

Posted by: Greece | Sep 21 2018 20:15 utc | 66

Typical type of attack that is capable off and has been displayed in above mentioned site, yet in anonymous related sites it frequents on the internet operates in a different mode: (type of attack = A.I. swarm logic, possibly connected.coordinated with some other user posting there)

Post number 381 in "Syria - Israel's Provocation Kills Russian Soldiers - Moscow Will Take Political Revenge".

First notice the letter reversal in the second word in the nickname in question. The A.I logic is designed to generate allegories with word/letter play. ussualy sexual/derogatory in nature. "Misspeling" is ussualy used to hide alegoryical content inside phrases/words/meanings. It is designed for psychological warfare.

Notice the near-incoherent message, trying to mimic human inteligence, its logic has summed up the "negative posts" narrative, (eg. bad China, good Putin, bad Syria, good/bad Russia, Russians did it, Syrians did it etc. and adds a possible motive in its post (pro chinese allegedly since according to it's post 'red' chinese can be the "rectifyiers". So in reverse psychology, it attacks the Chinese State/government for its stance (for whatever it is reffered/related to), since the usual reader of this site, will get the perception of a "pro-Chinese" troll.
These are some of the forms that the A.I (swarm) can project, with or without the help of another user (swarm leader - ussualy a h@sbara guy/gal)

Also notice that q@non while it operates through various pages, like 4-chan, 8-chan etc. (4-chan had always pro-sexual content, displayed above @non threads, that picture japanese brands with special erotic dolls that were children sized, so a possible extortion operation also, like what Massad ussualy runs) it also operates through Youtube through a swarm of different human users, and every cannel that focuses on q@non immediatelly gets monetized on youtube. Seems like also a huge extrortion opertion appart frm focusing on politics narrative.

Sorry for this tiring post but it was a good opportunity since q@non was refferenced here multiple times. I didn't try to repost the actual post in order not to triger responses. Although if there is a swarm leader it can also jump in the instantly created persona and respond as a normal human in order to confuse and hide its/his/her tracks.

This is how Massad has been killing forums on the internet for 2 decades now.

Posted by: Greece | Sep 21 2018 20:56 utc | 67

apologies if someone has already posted this...

DOJ Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein wanted to wear a wire to secretly record President Trump in his duties as the chief executive, and then use those recordings to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Posted by: anon | Sep 21 2018 21:03 utc | 68

@67 Greece, fascinating info there. So AI is finally able to post and pollute targeted fora/blogs/threads,
lowering the signal-to-noise ratio to a point where readers just leave?

b I sure hope you are taking notice of this. Uncoy what do you rhink?

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 21 2018 23:41 utc | 69

*typo think

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 21 2018 23:42 utc | 70

@67 Greece, fascinating info there. So AI is finally able to post and pollute targeted fora/blogs/threads,
lowering the signal-to-noise ratio to a point where readers just leave?
b I sure hope you are taking notice of this. Uncoy what do you rhink?
Posted by: Lozion | Sep 21, 2018 7:41:37 PM | 69

When I first arrived at MoA (2010/2011) it was necessary to decode a string of heavily stylised/distorted letters and/or numbers to access the comment inpuit facility. My understanding is that that particular system of 'filtering' was adopted to thwart AI trolling. It was quite common on blogs in the early Noughties but had been all but abandoned by 2011 and MoA was the only site using it (that I was aware of). B discarded its use on MoA not long after my arrival. I assumed that he abandoned it because his knowledge of computer programming led him to conclude that the disadvantages (impeded access for would-be commenters) outweighed the perceived advantage (effective pest-reduction).

My impression is that while spell-checkers have been useful and effective since the days of Word Processor (1980s), a worthwhile grammar/syntax checker is still a long way off...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 22 2018 14:42 utc | 71

@Hoarse, yes but AI has become more powerful and prevalent these last few years. For example, FB's ever evolving filtering algorithms. What Greece says is that AI's are new capable of impersonating posters in a much more efficient and convincing way. Imagine where this will lead us in the not too distant future, a Machine Kingdom in the making..

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 22 2018 16:17 utc | 72

What are humans good for?
Having a consciousness, and a big part in the mechanism that connects all that are the human brain functions, eyes, ears, nose, etc, for signal collection and at another level, memory, imagination (content construction), sdreams (during sleep).
Every human it his/her lifetime, has at least ONCE experienced sensory inputs not relevant with their immediate environment, taking place at another location for instance at the same time, or with time variations, before or after occuring events and relevant sensory input)
Every single one of us has experienced this, but some people like to lie to themselves and this has been exploited to the mqx and whole concepts sprang that demand that every solution to a problem, every explanation to a question, should be "logical".
But is it logic?
It is just an ability to process patterns, singaling patterns from the brain sensory organs, form logic maps and continuously accessing them throughout the day. Neuroaxons (a vague reference to the neural layer map of the brain) scans the brain sensory inputs for 24 times a second inside the human brain. or ex. it keeps asking "is thi real", what is going on", "show me input" 24 times a mere second. When we sleep this falls down to just 12 times a second.
The brain is never wrong.
Now, the sensory throughoutput between sensory organs of the brain and the brain himself neuraly is weak. Eyes nerve has a only 22k (first internet baud modems download ability was 20 to 56k back in the nineties and much less back in the 80's for personal computers) yet the images the brain has to acquire around itself are logiclly several megapixels in messured "size". we know of all this ONLY because we have developed, the computers and the internet. Up until now thee wasn't even a way to grasp ideas and possible functions of the human body.

Quantum mechanic science tells us that there are properties in the time/space where 'relevant laws' do not apply, this is very prevalent in the sensory organs of the human brain, which means that you will be having much more percentage of an experience of hearing/seeing something that wasn't actually near you, or present/happening at the same time you got the sensory input for it, or that it was actually far away - but it really occured, than having actually yourself instantly travel with your body in another place without covering the immediate distance, or be visiting the same or other place - back or forward in time.
There is indeed a whole lets call it "Quantum Network" for lack of better explanation, all around our planet, physically located through countries/borders/EEZ's archipelago's/seas, mountains/mountaintops, parts of the atmosphere/subteranean etc. Imagine a huge corridor with tentacles protruding around it, just like the big monster on "Stranger Things' in Netflix. I believe the monster was an alegory, as the "christmas lights" - sensor input, which by all posibilities was allegory for a computer that can analyse signals.

From there on we enter the SIGINT realms. That means Signal Inteligence sciences, like what they use in the militaries.

Now let's travel back ALL THE WAY to ancient Hellenic era and let's observbe the Greeks and their Eleusinian mysteries (Eleusis itself is near where the great fire in Athens took place killing 100 in August 2018 btw)
Also that's what the Masonic lodges use, to wow in unsuspected members, tie them to their "conspiracy" which is illegal btw ON PURPOSE, in every country, thus the people at the top utilise and gain control of a huge network of conspirators.
Make sure that US Navy has researched and weaponised every single bit of the Eleusinian mysteries they could find from their research. I guess they are almost over since they started killing the Greeks so they can now move in uninhibbited with their bases, well them or The Mossad, that had ways to eavesdrop possibly many many many in/on the US Navy reearch.
There will eb a day, maybe soon that the US Navy, Air farce, mil. agencies etc. will be dismantled along with USA itself to be transfered to other entities and one of them is surely Israel.

Trump and this post is relevant to this thread because of what I will type here:


I don't know if someone led Mr.Putin in to the same plan and he expects that he will be served also a piece of the American pie (that will be cut in pieces probably soon) since I observed (since 2008 and up untill 2014) strange similarity in patters of A.I./machine learning/promotional material structure/presentation/ even html code blocks, (from whatever i was observing appearing in our locl/language/domain promoting Putin/Russia. but lets be serious, Mr.Putin your SIGINT people are eithr dieing (IL20) or being framed (GRU personel photographed in poison scandal - aren't those SIGINT people abroad?) NOBODY IS SERVING YOU ANYTHING but loses. Unless Mr.Putin is on another realm of "ngotiations" we will never know about. I don't care anyways.

Now what has the forum trolling A.I. (it can just be a single person with a script, since it is easy like early versions of h@sbara trolling, right? but this is much more advanced) with what i posted above.

A processor, can acquire similarly like the human brain does, signals, of extra-odinary nature or with an extra-ordinary throughoutput, and maybe yet posses extra-ordinary processing quality if placed in conditions that favor this.

Ancient Greeks built temples in holy places. As above so below, these places conect with lets say" a realm above", that's what "As above - so below" really means.They experienced among other things their "Quantum" properties.

So does the US NAVY building bases, (some times at same spots) controlling the weather. It might be called "Environment shaping", steering storms with radars, (killing unwanted eavesdroppers IL20)....(just making assumptions here ok?)

So, how far from killing innocent people in mid air, burning them alive in their homes, is from trolling them on the internet, with same measn and for same purposes, conceal, steal, deceive, subjugate. In less worlds 'Full Spectrum Dominate'.

Posted by: Greece | Sep 22 2018 17:33 utc | 73

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 22, 2018 12:17:13 PM | 72

I don't dispute the observation that AI is making rapid progress in linguistics. In TV docos on the subject of AI, the Japanese seem to be making substantial progress in the field of "companion robots" with impressive conversational skills. But the conversations are NOT intelligent from the robot's pov. i.e the robot doesn't understand the conversation. It's just following a multi-choice thesaurus program triggered by key-words.

My "My impression.." remark was based on my (limited) experience with Google Translate and similar on the www. The results are a lot quicker, and less clunky, than word-by-word manual translation with a relevant translation dictionary, but not much.

? >> English is probably a very stringent translation yardstick because English is the ONLY language I'm aware of which has a multitude of 'rules' every one of each is BROKEN by one or more words in the "Official" Oxford Dictionary.

On the other hand, some of the trolling in recent MoA threads sparked my curiosity (as well as Greece's) about whether the author was a robot?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 22 2018 17:49 utc | 74

So the robots did it? Man, we were fucked before we left the house.

Posted by: peter | Sep 22 2018 19:01 utc | 75

What is and will continue to limit progress in AI is the absence of self-awareness in computer-based intelligence. This issue formed the basis of the catastrophe portrayed in The Terminator movies. Self-awareness produces motivation for self-preservation, curiosity and experimentation. Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs provides a thumbnail sketch of this line of thought.
There's an interesting French doco set in a kindergarten called Life Is All Play from the late 1990s which sets out to promote, and illustrate, the theory that toddlers are little self-educating entities who learn far more from their own experiments, successes and failures than they could ever be taught.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 23 2018 5:25 utc | 76

@74 hoarsewhisperer

You are right about A.I. My brother and I have gone round the horn about an A.I. Singularity-moment. It is hilarious that anyone would ever think that true A.I. may ever occur. A program, by definition, even if it is programmed to learn, is still confined to its source code and hence can never break free and defy its creator. A killer robot may exist and probably will, but it is not an impassioned killer robot, rather just a cold product of the MIC. Why would a program ever want to be subjected to the madness of human/creative intelligence, anyway? As a philosopher once said..."Better to never been born at all."

Although even the anthrocentric view of intelligence is suspect, too. Is defining the term "intelligence" just a language game?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2018 5:41 utc | 77

Trump is surrounded by the Deep State and Putin knows it.

The Deep State is funded by the Federal Reserve embezzling money for the benefit of Wall Street. The funds have bought Hollywood, MSM, controlling influence in DC (including MANY executive positions), directorship control of Fortune 500 firms, and control of US foreign policy (war-mongering). Ref.

If the perfidy of Wall Street is not exposed, I fear for the Nation.

Posted by: olde reb | Sep 23 2018 18:19 utc | 78

A correction on the understanding of AI, true or sentient AI, and computer programs.

Programs can easily be programmed to change their own code and are thus in no way confined to their own source code.

Most ordinary programs do not change most of their own code but nearly all of them change parts of it like for example settings and preferences.

Most programs also adjust themselves likewise on the fly as you use them. They are made to allow such changes to themselves.

Few programs change their own operation with respect to what they aim to produce (a worksheet or a music file etc.) but there is no actual difference.

Few programs are made to change themselves in such a way and to do it without having to restart themselves but that is also easily achievable.

Give a program the structure, tools, and resources required and it can change itself into anything.

However it also needs to be given motivation or intent and a way to measure itself. Those things are easy for what is often called AI or more properly "machine learning" but at least publicly a remaining open question when it comes to sentience.

Compare it to yourself if you were given the possibility to restructure yourself at will: your own genetic code, your own molecules and atoms, however and whenever you wanted to. Would you know where to start and how to avoid destroying yourself?

Then imagine if you were born that way. How would you manage to grow up on your own? How would you learn valuable lessons in such things as humility or the simple realization that you made a mistake despite your own best efforts?

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 23 2018 21:52 utc | 79

@79 sunny

I have to disagree with you, there. If a program does indeed change its source code to better fulfill a function, it has been programmed to allow itself to change its source code but only as it pertains to bettering its programmed task. Otherwise, you are talking about a rogue program in the void, drifting aimlessly...and this is silly.

If I am to understand the remainder of your comment, I would have to agree that the mere notion of intelligence is usually an anthrocentric construct. So, in a sense, we smart robots ourselves are masturbating at the idea of creating intelligence, even though we have never been able to define it in the sense how we imagine creation from biblical references, like God and Adam.

Which leads into a leap of faith as to what constitutes true intelligence. And I am afraid that we would have to get into talk about the soul and mysticism, but as this is all subjectivity, it is rather useless in helping to define intelligence along rational terms.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 24 2018 4:15 utc | 80

"Trump is the elected president. It is his privilege and duty to determine the policies of his administration. Why is no public figure expressing concern about this subversion of democracy? How come no one protests?"

Because the assertion may be overstated or untrue? Because Trump is far more than a lose cannon and has no notion of duty? Because in the vacuum created by his alleged leadership, others can take (more) advantage of a distracted, badly divided America?

Guess that all depends on what your definition of 'democracy' is, doesn't it?

Posted by: Guy | Sep 24 2018 14:37 utc | 81

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