Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 22, 2018

The NYT's Rosenstein Story Is An Attempt To Bring Trump Down

The U.S. midterm election on November 6 will decide if the House and/or Senate will change from the current Republican majority to a Democratic majority. While the parties are do not differ much from each other, a few high political issues (and financial consequences) are at stake. The currently most important one is the Senate confirmation of the arch-conservative Brett Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court. The Democrats are trying all they can to delay the confirmation process with the hope to move it towards a post election session in which they may have a majority. A majority might even give the Democrats a chance to impeach Trump.

Except Kavanaugh, who will by then likely have passed the confirmation, the Democrats have nothing big to run on. The Mueller investigation had no serious results so far. The economy is still running reasonably well except for the poor. A spike in oil prices because of Trump's sanctions against Iran will only come after the election. Trump ratings are negative but not so much that it will have a serious impact on the election. The Democrats need something big.

This is the context of a sensational New York Times story - Rod Rosenstein Suggested Secretly Recording Trump and Discussed 25th Amendment - which seems to be designed to give Trump a reason to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

Andrew Prokop at Vox summarizes its current state:

Did Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein seriously suggest to top Justice Department officials last year that someone should secretly tape President Donald Trump?

Or did he make an obviously sarcastic comment that he never intended anyone take seriously?

A new report from the New York Times’s Adam Goldman and Michael Schmidt says it was the former — and adds that Rosenstein also talked about invoking the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office. (Neither ended up happening.) The reporters’ sources are anonymous people “briefed either on the events themselves or on memos” written by former deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe and others.

But a separate report from the Washington Post’s Devlin Barrett and Matt Zapotosky quotes an anonymous source who was in the room and disputes the account given to the Times. Per this source, Rosenstein was rebutting a suggestion by McCabe that the Justice Department open an investigation into Trump, and said something along the lines of, “What do you want to do, Andy, wire the president?”

Who’s right? The consequences could be enormous. It was Rosenstein who appointed Mueller as special counsel back in May 2017, and it’s Rosenstein who continues to oversee Mueller’s Russia investigation. Well before these new stories President Trump has privately mused about firing Rosenstein (or Sessions, or Mueller), so he could put someone he views as more loyal in charge of the Russia probe.

Marcy Wheeler at Emptywheel berates the NYT for publishing the piece:

NYT Gives Trump His Excuse to Fire Rod Rosenstein

The NYT has an inflammatory article claiming that Rod Rosenstein floated recording the President and/or invoking the 25th Amendment in the days after Trump fired Jim Comey.
The insinuation is clear: in an attempt to accuse Rosenstein of things known to set off the President (notably, being recorded), someone took memos McCabe wrote and read them to people who would then leak them to the NYT.

If the NYT version of the incident is true, it indeed would give Trump plenty of reasons to fire Rosenstein (and Mueller and Session.) Several prominent Trump supporters urge him to do such:

Fox News host Laura Ingraham tweeted that Rosenstein “needs to go. Today.”

The president’s son Donald Trump Jr. tweeted: “No one is shocked that these guys would do anything in their power to undermine” the president.

Eric Bolling, a former Fox News host who is in contact with the president, said that “if the allegation is true, absolutely fire Rosenstein. No one could find fault in that decision now.”

But firing Rosenstein now would be a huge mistake. It would be perceived as a Saturday Night Massacre:

The Saturday Night Massacre was a series of events which took place in the United States on the evening of Saturday, October 20, 1973, during the Watergate scandal. U.S. President Richard Nixon ordered Attorney General Elliot Richardson to fire independent special prosecutor Archibald Cox; Richardson refused and resigned effective immediately. Nixon then ordered Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox; Ruckelshaus refused, and also resigned. Nixon then ordered the third-most-senior official at the Justice Department, Solicitor General Robert Bork, to fire Cox. Bork considered resigning, but did as Nixon asked.

It is obvious who would be served by such a 'slaughter'. It would not help Trump or the Republicans at all. It would be huge gift to the Democrats who have long prepared for such an eventuality. Dozens of groups aligned with the Democrats have prepared a campaign to be launched the very moment Trump announces the firing of Mueller, Session or Rosenstein:

[W]e're preparing to hold emergency "Nobody Is Above the Law" rallies around the country in the event they are needed—900+ of them and counting, in every state, with 400,000 RSVPs to date!

Join us.


Such a campaign now could be used to get-out-the-votes on November 6. It would be immensely helpful for the Democrats and increase their chance to capture the House and/or Senate.

In defense of publishing the piece the NYT's deputy managing editor Matt Purdy says:

... this story is based on months of reporting.

So why is it coming out now? The answer seems obvious. The NYT report is a trap, timed for the upcoming election. It is not an attack on Rod Rosenstein, but on Trump. It is supposed to goad him into an impulsive reaction and to commit a Saturday night massacre of his own. Nixon's 'massacre' was highly negative for him and helped to bring him down.

Trump did not became president by being stupid. I don't think he will fall for this.

Posted by b on September 22, 2018 at 18:12 UTC | Permalink


The US economy is not running real well except for the very very well to do, and those who happen to work for the likes of Google or Facebook, or of course an ibank.

Posted by: Jay | Sep 22 2018 18:31 utc | 1

The USA economy is not doing that great. It has the perception that it's doing better and that perception has become reality. A false one but one that people believe Trump has brought them.
Trump is fighting a desperate action to revive the USA, the LEFT is fighting everyone of his initiatives every step of the way.
However TRUMP has made this easier for the LEFT and NEOCONS by allowing them a space in his administration.
There was no GOD DAMNED reason for him to keep Rosenstein.
There were so many good people willing and waiting to be called into Government service that would've helped push his agenda.
Everything Trump gets is his own fault

Posted by: Fernando Arauxo | Sep 22 2018 18:38 utc | 2

"A majority might even give the Democrats a chance to impeach Trump."

Well, 67 votes are required and without a
Saturday Night Massacre" or "tapes" which provide irrefutable evidence the possibility of 67 votes seems quite remote. I don't even think they are pushing for impeachment, they talk a big game yet vote through 15 life time judges without a word and hand over to him an extra 80 billion for bombs. Destabilization abroad brought home.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Sep 22 2018 18:39 utc | 3


The US economy is not running real well except for the very very well to do, and those who happen to work for the likes of Google or Facebook, or of course an ibank.

True. But it's no worse than it was two years ago, so it's unlikely the Dims will try and run on it.

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Sep 22 2018 18:41 utc | 4

b.. thanks.. i agree with your conclusion at the end... you have some typos in the 2nd sentence which reads "While the parties are do not different much from each other.." perhaps you mean to say While the parties are not much different from each other..."

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2018 18:44 utc | 5

oh and kudos for marcy( emptywheel) who makes a regular diet of the nyt, wapo and wsj - for coming out and saying that.. perhaps she will get to the point of realizing she has been fed a steady diet of bs from these same papers.. i won't hold my breath on that one..

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2018 18:45 utc | 6

It's interesting to see this maneuver in a chain to goad Trump, following the continuing lackluster Mueller fiasco and in line with Woodward's book, the op-ed, and Democratic Kavanaugh maneuvering. Trump has been reluctant to get rid of Mueller, and probably will continue caution there--but now we have Rosenstein implicated in possible subversion (speaking of who is above the law meme??) and blocking release of the classified memos, which disclosure most likely will deepen the prejudice problem the DOJ is up against. This bias throughout the IC is slowly coming out to JQ Public. So, B, I think Trump will show some balls here and fire Rosenstein and Sessions, and that will help the Repubs in the elections vs. hurting them.

Posted by: Sid2 | Sep 22 2018 18:56 utc | 7

The reports on this website are outstanding, as well as the comments. The conclusion is correct. President Trump is a lot smarter than people give him credit for.

Contrary to mainstream false propaganda about the November 6 election, the Democrats will take a beating like they have never taken before. President Trump keeps everybody guessing , but will prevail easily. His opposition and critics need to worry.

Posted by: Friar Ockham | Sep 22 2018 18:57 utc | 8

Well, well, Mr.Trump talks the talk but never walks the walk it semms...
If only poor Kennedy would be so lucky...
Nobody to point fingers at for wiring the president...
Did they wire Kenny Mr.Trump?
You did a big show about putting out stuff that would reveal what happened with kennedy, but instead the people were fed the ussual BS plus some "new" irrelevant" stuff.
Was it just a show to push for more power for your favorite Mr.Netanyahou?
How did they eavesdrop kenny Mr.Trump?

Posted by: Greece | Sep 22 2018 19:05 utc | 9

One suspects that if Trump decides to fire any person POTUS has the constitutional authority to fire then that person will be fired. Trump thinks outside the box, all the time. This is Office Politics with a strong negotiation/deal-making flavour. It's what he does best.
He'll be able to spin this to his advantage...
The Dems are (Crooked) Hillary-bots which puts them on the back foot from the get-go.
The Dems are about to be Trumped, good & proper.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 22 2018 19:31 utc | 10

What the US needs is a civil war. A long lasting war of attrition. Trump will soon have Venezuela's oil and Iran is also paying a heavy price.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 22 2018 19:35 utc | 11

The time to fire Rosenstein will come after Muller issues his final report. Probably the day after. I have a feeling Muller will wrap it up right after the midterms. It appears that the soft coup going on against Trump is orchestrated at the highest levels of the bureaucracy with support from the DNC. Now that McCain is gone the Republican support seems to have fizzled out.

Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik has been talking about coups and counter coups surrounding Trump in the US government on the AJ show and his own website. He does have the chops to back it up. Some of maybe a form of psyops since that is his specialty.

The Democrats have to win the midterms. If they do not then Trump will have the opportunity to hire a strong AG and finish cleaning out the upper echelon of the FBI. With that the focus will be investigations and criminal action against the perpetrators of the soft coup among other issues. I am not sure how far that will get as the deep state has a deep bench and Trump is surrounding himself with Kabbalists, NEOCONS, and Evangelical Zionists.

All the leading economic indicators are great to healthy except for inflation which is slightly above the FED target. Where I am at all the skilled workers are working and many businesses are hiring. Homelessness is worse than I have ever seen but I do not see any Latino or Asian homeless people. It is nearly 100% white or African Americans. Most appear to be drugged out losers.

Posted by: dltravers | Sep 22 2018 19:41 utc | 12

I don't think Trump will fall for this either.

His critics and detractors insist that Trump is so weak-minded that he has a childish, or imbecilic, inclination to be persuaded by sensational news and lurid stories-- and is prone to uncritically believe whatever's expressed by the last person he communicates with.

This criticism is being tested with this latest NYT IED, or "bombshell". All of the "prominent Trump supporters" cited in B.'s post are effectively urging Trump, "Let's you and them fight!"

Perhaps, in spite of himself, some of Vladimir Putin's dispassionate patience, restraint, and overall disdain for indulging in reckless impulse has rubbed off on Trump. We'll see.

Posted by: Ort | Sep 22 2018 20:02 utc | 13

I agree with Bernhard that the NY Times article is intended to get Trump to sack Rosenstein, Sessions and even Mueller, and, though the Times and neolibs and neocons think that the superficial resemblance to the Saturday Night Massacre would lead them to victory, the obvious bullshit of the campaign, which even the Times article reveals despite itself would insulate Trump against such a backlash occurring. In fact, the planned media firestorm might itself create a backlash, since Trump would no doubt say that the reason he was acting was the fact sedition had been proven by the actions of Rosenstein, Mueller, et. al. and his supporters would increase because many of those who supported him because he wasn't the harpy are disappointed with his failure to even be able to control his justice ministry. I agree with Sid2 (no. 7) that if he did show some cojones and acted against the coup plotters he would gain rather than lose support. Also, people favour stability over chaos, which is what a democratic victory in congress would achieve, since the democrats have, with a few laudable exceptions, totally sold out to the imperial power structure and the neoliberal capitalist model.

Posted by: exiled off mainstreet | Sep 22 2018 20:03 utc | 14

Stay tuned for the next episode of "The Trump Show", a zanny sitcom featuring the 45th President and an all-star cast of bumbling misfits and adorable 'resistors'.

Renown for it's man bites dog bites man slapstick, this is a show that will keep you stitches before and after your deployments. Find out why everyone is talking about "The Trump Show" - at the store, at the company's water-cooler, at the local titty bar. America loves this show!

Ask NOT what your country can do for YOU - watch the show!

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

This advertisement paid for by Plutocrats for America; Zionist Manipulator Alliance; The 1984 Foundation; The McCain-Clinton Institute for Democratic Fascism, Spectre; School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too; with additional funding super rich middle eastern countries that wish to remain anonymous (you didn't hear that from us).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 22 2018 20:06 utc | 15

Yes,,, we are entertained.

The whole charade gives the impression that the Donald is 'forced' into harassing Russia. And everyone including Mr. Putin seems to be buying it,,, hook, line, and sinker.

Apparently the man that wrote the book 'The Art of the Deal', built a billion dollar empire, has no ability to make his own decisions!

Yes,,, everyone suckered again. If voting worked,,, It would be outlawed.

Posted by: ken | Sep 22 2018 20:22 utc | 16

Jackrabbit @ 15: I am amazed to see that the advert for the reality TV sitcom "Trump Show" did not also mention support by lobby groups acting for popcorn manufacturers, their raw material suppliers and Coca Cola.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 22 2018 20:29 utc | 17

jackrabbit you killing me!
The last 6 lines of your message in 15
ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Here is to you!
"They Live!" groccery store scene: "I Got One That Can See"

Posted by: Greece | Sep 22 2018 20:35 utc | 18

"The NYT's Rosenstein Story Is An Attempt To Bring Trump Down"

My first reaction would have been "Oh, it is?"

That's because I didn't really know what to do with this bit of news by the NYT. And since that story's echo over here in Germany struck me as rather sober and reasonable in tone, I was beginning to think that journos at the NYT were beginning to slowly come around to accepting Russiagate as the big nothing it is. You know, laying the blame were it belongs. The guy ("our guy") made a grossly improper suggestion and so he should be fired after all, even by Trump, even if it harms the Russiagate story. Well...

Thanks for setting me straight there. You really make a compelling case. But a pretty long-winded scheme by the Deep State, huh? Are they losing it?


Peter AU 1 | 11

Venezuela... What I found amusing is Turkey now speaking out against US sanctions on Venezuela. Way to go! I'm thinking these two would each have a lot to gain from trading with each other.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Sep 22 2018 20:46 utc | 19

Stormy Daniels supposedly said she was surprised to hear Trump was running for President because he had said to her he didnt want to be be President. After all, why would he? Rich guy with maybe 5 years left to live. Who needs it?

Sowhy did he run. He had no choice. Look at the ease in which government can bring diwn anyone with tax and money lsundering charges and look at his partners and a number of his dodgy financial dealings not to mention the ongoing audit firing his campaign. His buddy Felix Sater cut a deal snd so didnt Trump. Run and serve snd keep your wealth and stay out of jail, and make a few billion with insider deals while you are at it.

So the Deep State which is far more than entrenched buerocrats as the naive define it (it includes the ruling elite in finance, MIC, oil, MSM, retired intelligence/military/state/congress, etc), brought in a controlled Trojan horse pretending to be a populist who was all about the working class and anti establishment, anti war and anti globalist while those he served were opposites. Look at what he has done and who he has surrounded himself with. Lol

So what is the endgame for this Russiagate and this phony Deep State vs Trump nonsense? Why Trump?

Not sure I know for sure. Polarizing and dividing the US with perhaps a civil war when Trump gets impeached and resigns, or at least imposition of permanent martial law. Get support for massive censorship which all authoritarian regimes need. And of course as the US goes down this path its puppet states in EU, UK and elsewhere will follow. I guess we will have to wait and see.

In the meantime, Trump will feed the beast (tax cuts for rich, tarrifs for middle class, higher Military spending, cuts to medicare/Medicaid/social security, higher insurance premiums/HC costs, phony economic figures to mask detetiorating economic conditions for the median (remember when Trump said the same of Hillary using the same bogus figures)

Fewer people are working in the US under Trump as more people are disappeared from the work force. GDP growth per MH is due to higher extraction of wealth from middle class by the rentier class, and stock market growth is due to central bank purchases, offshore money coming home due to tax breaks and of course the plunge protection team temoving the risk of a major drop until after thr mid term elections. We are already seeing the beginning of the next housing market collapse.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 22 2018 20:54 utc | 20

@1, 2 and 4, Re. the economy

It will be interesting to see how Trump's base reacts when prices start to climb at Walmart due to tariffs on Chinese goods. If that happens soon enough, it might have an impact on the upcoming US elections.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 22 2018 20:59 utc | 21

"......Except Kavanaugh, who will by then likely have passed the confirmation, the Democrats have nothing big to run on. The Mueller investigation had no serious results so far........"

You mean in terms of "collusion" because the Mueller investigation has produced extremely serious results including charging "four Americans once affiliated with Trump's campaign or administration, 13 Russian nationals, 12 Russian intelligence officers, three Russian companies, and two other people". That Russia interfered in the US election to elect Trump is a foregone conclusion.

It should be noted that The Insider - a group of Russian adversarial journalists - linked the GRU to the hack of the Macron campaign as well (Roshka the Bear. How French president's mailbox was hacked by Russian intelligence – The Insider The emails were handed over to WikiLeaks and released prior to the French election. This was another case of Assange working on behalf of the Russian government in an attempt to elect the far right wing, Marine Le Pen. Le Pen was a guest of Putin in Moscow. Le Pen is a favorite of the French Neo-Nazis which only goes to show that Putin only minds the Neo-Nazis that don't support his geopolitical aims - like in Ukraine.

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 22 2018 21:17 utc | 22

"The economy is still running reasonably well except for the poor."
Given that the majority of the u.s. population qualifies as poor - over 50 % does not have 500 u$ to cover a surprise urgent necessity - this is an outstanding example of understatement.

Posted by: Pnyx | Sep 22 2018 21:23 utc | 23

I think it is very unlikely that Trump will fire Rosenstein now. After all, he has not fired Sessions, Rosenstein, or Mueller for a long time, even though it must be hard to watch this Russiagate charade going on for over two years from the beginning of the FBI investigation without the slightest evidence so far (and, according to Strzok‘s and Page‘s messages, without any concrete indication at the time Mueller was appointed) and most influential media still pretending all the time the big bombshell could come any moment, which has considerably weakened Trump. But he is hardly completely stupid, he knows that it is in his best interest to let Mueller finish the investigation and show how little he has.

Trump may not be the most sophisticated intellectual, but the idea that he acts impulsively without thinking about the consequences is hardly appropriate. The idea that Trump may now fire Rosenstein is probably mostly based on the fact that he fired Comey. But firing Comey was hardly a rash, impulsive decision - it was recommended to Trump by Rosenstein. The same Rosenstein who then, right after Comey had been fired on the basis of his recommendation used that firing and Comey‘s leak for appointing special counsel Mueller. This is such an absurd dirty trick Rosenstein had played on Trump that I find it astonishing that Trump did not fired Rosenstein right away after Rosenstein had recommended him to fire Comey and then used the firing of Comey for appointing Mueller - I would have fired Rosenstein in Trump‘s position, but he probably knows much more about surviving power struggles than I do, and since he did not fire Rosenstein right after that treacherous behavior, it is very unlikely that he will do so after a few additional rumors in the media.

I don’t think Democrats really want impeachment. Especially if they are going to win the midterms (and only then is impeachment realistic), they will conclude that, even though he won in 2016, he will easy to beat in 2020, and they will hardly want to lose their favorite bogeyman before 2020 (especially since most of them don’t want to run on political issues because the overlap of what the Democratic base wants and what the Democratic donors want is so small, being just anti-Trump is an easy way out). Furthermore, even if Democrats win, they cannot magically make evidence for Russiagate appear (they may spin some factoids Mueller may present, but the power of that is probably limited).

Still, I think the midterms are important, mainly because Democrats will use a majority in the House for stopping the congressional investigation into the abuse of power of the secret services and their collusion with the Clinton campaign. I find it an absurd situation when most mainstream media pretend that „spygate“ (somthing for which there is a lot of initial evidence, even just the texts by Strzok and Page certainly would be enough for appointing a special counsel) is an absurd conspiracy theory meant to distract from the really important topic, Russiagate (something for which „there is no there there“, no evidence, at all after over two years from the first Russiagate claims). Winning the midterms will probably allow Democrats to let the whole Russiagate story into the background (just claiming Trump is not fit for the job, even if he is no Russian puppet), but if they lose, they cannot stop Nunes, and then, Trump may also be freer to support uncovering the abuse of power by people in the secret services.

I am to the left of most Democrats, and therefore I find it odd that I am now convinced that it is very important that Republicans retain a majority in the House. But I think it is very important that the abuse of power by people in the secret services is investigated and prosecuted, therefore I hope that this time, at least some leftists will vote for Republicans because the abuse of power by secret services is such a threat to democracy that it should have high priority (the other reason why I hope Republicans win the midterms is the extremely belligerent language many Democrats use towards Russia, who knows to which dangerous jingoistic acts such irresponsible lunatics could drive Trump, even if Republicans‘ ecological policies are worse for the future of humanity in the long run, in the short run, avoiding nuclear war is more important).

Posted by: Adrian E. | Sep 22 2018 21:39 utc | 24

Thank you b. Marcy Wheeler is an empty wheel, no spokes, no hub, and all exterior spin. The site is spin jokey crap for the demoncrats. She publishes breathless 'Trump is done now' pieces.

The demoncrats are seriously using every desperate ploy they can muster to recoup the majority in the congress but after seeing their performance since the Trump election and seeing Trump's performance I suspect USA will back Trump. Either way it is sad for the world as the bankster military complex has the country by the balls. Even more so as we see fake social democrats winning positions and betraying their roots within weeks.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 22 2018 21:52 utc | 25

Bill Hicks explains US Presidency:

“You know, there’s a handful of people that run everything. That’s a fact, I’m not some conspiracy nut. A handful, very small, elite run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media.

I have this feeling that whoever’s elected president… when you win, you go into this smoky room with the twelve industrialists capitalists scum-fucks who got you in there.

And a big guy with a cigar goes:

‘Roll the film.’

And it’s a shot of the Kennedy Assassination from an angle you’ve never seen before. It looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll. Then the screen comes up, and they go to the new president:

‘Any questions?’

- Bill Hicks, Rant in E-Minor (1993)

Posted by: Shasta Fay Hepworth | Sep 22 2018 21:52 utc | 26

Scotch Bingeington 19

Turkey, Venezuela, Qatar belong the the faction that does not recognize the state of Israel.
Apart from the Saudi's, that faction may be becoming more tight knit with Trumps attacks on the Palestinians and recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 22 2018 22:00 utc | 27

I haven't seen much yet which looks like Trump won't get his second term.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 22 2018 22:08 utc | 28

b this is a non story as of approximately 9 PM EST last night.

Surprised you missed this. Maybe you don't regularly watch FNC? LOL

Fox News host Sean Hannity urged President Trump on Friday night not to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein amid a report that he wanted to rally Cabinet members to invoke the 25th Amendment to the Constitution to oust the president.

Hannity pleaded with Trump via his show to not fire anyone in response to the report, which Rosenstein has denied, claiming that it was a “setup.”

“Under no circumstances — I have a message for the president tonight — under zero circumstances should the president fire anybody,” Hannity said.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 22 2018 22:08 utc | 29

Oh, that silly joke again... Since no evidence of Russiagate has emerged in the US, it is falsely claimed that there is evidence for Russian hacking in France, even though this was explicitly rejected by the head of the team of French intelligence officers who investigated the cause, see
I suppose, the main point is that the French intelligence service is less politicized than the FBI and CIA (not necessarily other US services like the DIA, there probably is a reason why the handpicked analysts for the January 2017 reports were taken only from three services)

So, the same person who expects that accusations by the US secret services should blindly be believed, even though they have presented no evidence (it seems in the anti-democratic Orwellian mindset of craigsummers, an indictment against alleged GRU members that is not expected to lead to any trials and which is not accompanied by any evidence should be treated as evidence of guilt) also expect us to reject the conclusion of the French secret service and instead to believe an obscure hacker group that does not even hide that its main goal is to harm the Russian government.

Posted by: Adrian E. | Sep 22 2018 22:13 utc | 30

Trump fires Rosenstein at his peril. Maybe he feels as optimistic about the mid-term as some posters on here but there's a whole lot of people think otherwise. It will be a referendum on Trump and we'll know pretty soon how the people rate this so-called president.

There's one thing for certain. Whether it's Mueller or a replacement of Mueller or the whole investigation is shut down by such a replacement the truth will out in the end. Mueller has what he has and nobody knows what that amounts to. Continuous yammering about a lack of a shred of proof is just white noise. Nobody knows what Manafort or Cohen or that CFO guy from Trump's own company has given Mueller. Think they'll be able to keep a lid on that? Dream on.

The 25th Amendment is in place in case the prez is nuts and has to go. Well, Trump is as crazy as a two-peckered owl.So if he fires Mueller and Sessions and Rosenstein all in one fell swoop I won't be too surprised. His paranoia is really starting to show. Woodward's book has already gone into its second printing. There's definite interest in his behavior.Not all of it good.

Posted by: peter | Sep 22 2018 22:19 utc | 31

More notions on USA election so excuse a repeat post all. I figure an enormous number of voters reeled in horror at the prospect of a Hillary Clinton president and voted for Trump. Will that horror revert to more democrat support now?

Are those swing voters now uncertain if the $hillary will stage a come back. Nothing absolute has been stated and the demoncrats go through the motions of 'thinking about' another stooge like creepy Joe Biden. The USA is not liberated from the 'Clinton option' yet.

More to the point though is that repeatedly implied and sometimes stated 'certainty' that the DOJ/FBI under its new Trumpian management has a thousand grand jury indictments pending to be actioned in October or something. The Trumpers are certain that their hero is about to slay the many headed dragon and they have been anticipating that move for some time. Sure there appears to be sufficient evidence to draw and quarter a couple of seriously stupid clowns.

Given Trumps kneeling to the british skripal poisoning 'hate russia' hoax I suspect there is no chance he will go after Christopher Steele or any of the senior demoncrat conspirers no matter how much he would love to sucker punch Theresa May and her nasty colleagues. If Trump backs the british looneys in the UN security council in a day or two we can all be sure he is now a puppet on a british string and that point will be seen by USA voters.

Any leader that lets a foreign nation, britain, try to destroy his family, presidential campaign and now presidency by assembling and publishing a dirt dossier without response is a coward. If Trump wont stand up to Hillary Clinton, Theresa May, or any of the dossier conspirators, then he is useless. The USA voters see that no matter what the spin but the swing voters more than any other actually discriminate and make judgements based on actions. They are in a quandry and only Trump can cement their support by going after the perpetrators NOW and telling the EU loonies like britain and france to F off with their belligerent war mongering. I wouldn't count on it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 22 2018 22:34 utc | 32

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 22, 2018 5:17:51 PM | 22

Well, as long as you support the #METOO-ish school of legal doctrine, i.e. whereupon a simple charging is sufficient to establish culpability, you will surely enjoy the following article, on The Nation, The Harvard Boys Do Russia, May, 1998, which you can search for and fact-check with your own tools of choice.

Perhaps consider the idea that within Russia in the 1990s that was systematically sold off to US interests, facilitated by Russian government officials, the Russian social immune system kicked in and gave rise to Vladimir Putin to protect his homeland’s interests. Consider further that Trump is dealing with a horde of malignant backstabbing little bitches that are doing their best to rape their own homeland. Maybe the US social immune system is working better than you think, despite attempts to deflect blame towards Trump and Putin, and actual, indictable charges against Clintonian operatives cannot be suppressed much longer.

The DNC is broke. What does that tell you?

Posted by: Stumpy | Sep 22 2018 22:38 utc | 33

Adrian E @ 30

I don't expect you to look at the obvious evidence (let alone the motive) for Russian interference to elect Trump in the US election. You are either beholden to Putin or driven by anti-Americanism. Either way, you are not interested in the truth. The same goes for the attempted murder of Skripal, the downing of MH17 and other Russian lies. However, your link to the French intelligence officers is dated in June of 2017. Basically, they didn't see evidence like APT28 and APT29 which was found by Crowdstrike at the DNC (and coroborated by several other cybersecurity firms). Investigative journalists at The Insider published their data in October 2017 and based their conclusion on a name they found in the metadata - and tied it back to the GRU. Read it and enjoy.


Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 22 2018 22:59 utc | 34

Posted by: peter | Sep 22, 2018 6:19:41 PM | 31

Two-peckered owl? Lol!

You know, if the Special Counsel takes down some big thieves, so be it. If the thieves cut a deal in return for lenient sentences, that sucks. As you point out, no one really knows what Mueller has or might obtain from former Trump associates, but in a galaxy far, far, away, the Republicans via Ken Starr lost time fapping about over a stain on some bimbo’s blue dress. The Clintons went on to amass a fortune large enough to buy a few small countries (even a big one or two). The sex-crime angle works no better than the sleeping with enemies kompromat in this country, apparently.

I would pose the argument that the balance of power within the large corporate interests will sway the issue, as long as the arms merchants and resource extraction industries get their way. Bad girls serve a purpose, but only to a certain extent, Mrs. Page.

Posted by: Stumpy | Sep 22 2018 23:05 utc | 35

"All the leading economic indicators are great to healthy ... Homelessness is worse than I have ever seen but I do not see any Latino or Asian homeless people. It is nearly 100% white or African Americans. Most appear to be drugged out losers."

A perfect example of what b meant when he said that the only people suffering are the poor. Meaning that nobody cares about them and, often because they are prevented from doing so, they rarely vote. And when they do vote there aren't any candidates to vote for.

The last sentence just about sums neo-liberals up: most of the homeless, we are informed, are 'drugged out losers.'
So that's OK is it? Ever wonder why they are drugged out? Or what the rules were in the game they lost?

Posted by: bevin | Sep 22 2018 23:08 utc | 36


“...evidence like APT28 and APT29 which was found by Crowdstrike at the DNC (and coroborated by several other cybersecurity firms”

Can you point to a source to carburate your corroboration?

Posted by: Stumpy | Sep 22 2018 23:09 utc | 37

Stump @33

".......Perhaps consider the idea that within Russia in the 1990s that was systematically sold off to US interests, facilitated by Russian government officials, the Russian social immune system kicked in and gave rise to Vladimir Putin to protect his homeland’s interests......."

I would concede that the decision by Puitn to interfere was driven in part by revenge - like what he called US interference in a Russian election - and HRC's hostility toward Putin and Russia. However, Putin is very practical in the geopolitical sense. Trump promised friendlier relations with Russia. Trump belittled NATO (as did Marine Le Pen). Trump questioned why the US was in Syria and proposed the US and Russia fight the Muslim terrorists together. Trump criticized the Bush invasion of Iraq and supported a more isolationist policy for the US in the world.

HRC was hostile toward Russian interests - especially in Ukraine. She wanted to implement a no fly zone in Syria which would have clearly clashed with Russia. Hillary compared Putin to Hitler and publicly questioned the 2012 Russian elections. HRC is a hawk when it comes to American interests.

So the choice for Putin was easy. Russia interfered on muliple levels - social media (IRA), hacking and releasing the emails to WikiLeaks etc.


Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 22 2018 23:23 utc | 38

@ Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Sep 22, 2018 2:41:37 PM | 4

@ Posted by: dltravers | Sep 22, 2018 3:41:24 PM | 12

You're both wrong. The USA has been in a secular decline since at least Carter (1978). Yes, it isn't Trump's fault the USA is decaying -- but he's no savior or economics genius either.

The thing is the Americans, contrary to the rest of the world, doesn't use the annualised rate to calculate their GDP growth, buth the quarterly rate "normalised". This leads to absurd growth rates in the USA, such as the eye-popping 4.1% growht in Q2 2018 etc. etc. (see the link above for more information).

Bill Clinton (2000) was the last POTUS which affered a quarterly growth above the peak of his predecessor, but this is easily explainable: George H. W. Bush was a one-term POTUS (a rarity post-Carter), and he governed through much of the 1990-92 recession of the Western Civilization (specially in the UK, Germany and Japan). Clinton caught pretty much the last innovation cycle capitalism could do: the internet era, which would burst precisely in 2001 (dotcom bubble). George W. Bush reaped the recovery of the recession in 2002, and the financial capital continue to growth to an apex in 2006 or 2007 (depending on the country you live): that was the last time capitalism, all things considered, could state it "delivered" (at least to the first world countries); the 2008 meltdown would only affect the "emergent economies" in the end of 2011, after 2012, capitalism stopped "delivering" to the whole world.

Notice I'm not including China (which suffered a little bit in 2009, the aftermath of the great recession). That's because China is not a capitalist country, therefore the economic rules of globalization don't apply to the Chinese in the classic way.

Putin has stated publicly at least two times that, if he could go back in time to do one thing, he would go back to 1991 and save the USSR. I will forever wonder: what if the USSR survived for 17 more years? The world would be in a completely different (much better) situation it is now.

Posted by: vk | Sep 22 2018 23:32 utc | 39

The OP says: 1)The NYT cooks up a fake news story about Rod Rosenstein seriously floating the removal of the President as a ploy to get Trump to fire Rosenstein in hopes that will win the mid-terms. 2)The motive for this is supposed to be that the economy is good, the NYT believes Mueller is nowhere and negative poll ratings for Trump don't matter either, so the NYT is determined to gin up a fake crisis to get out the vote. 3)Turnout is essential because which seats are up, the way the districts are drawn and voter suppression favor the Republicans no matter what.

!)Only Rube Goldberg thinks of plans like this. This is exactly like the supervillain plan to get captured, for reasons. Which is to say, real people don't do this, for the same reasons no real killer sets up a locked room murder. Also, the Saturday Night massacre didn't do in Nixon, the tapes did in Nixon, so the underlying premise is fake history. Firing Rosenstein or Mueller or Sessions may cause a lot of noise, but no, no, no, it is not demonstrations but the threat of real jail time that can crack the White House omerta. Somebody who wants Rosenstein gone, either to protect Trump or simply to get Rosenstein's job could be pushing this. If anyone is being trapped, it's the NYT being suckered out onto a limb.

2)The economy is not good, unless you're an big owner or a top employee of a big owner. This sort of thing is why midterm elections usually go against the administration. The NYT very likely believes its own news, because vanity, wishful thinking and you never confess. So it's highly unlikely the NYT believes Mueller's loss won't put a spoke into anti-Trump, which is sensible, because it won't. The notion Trump's negatives don't matter in the general isn't quite crazy, but it's a stretch.

However, the NYT had its best chance by far to act against Trump by investigating his entire career before the election. They didn't. They deliberately buried it, unlike Benghazi and emails and Clinton cash, because the NYT was well aware the rich were turning to Trump. That is the part of population that moved right. The assumption the NYT is a resolute enemy of Trump or of most of his policies is silly, and worse, seems to be motivated by some sort of bizarre conspiratorial worldview. Disagreement with some of Trump's policies is simply labeled treason, because. And daring to actually think maybe Trump is incompetent is heinous lese-majeste practically equivalent to treason. Sarah Huckabee Sanders may think so. But anyone with both a brain and a spine knows that well, yeah, there is actually reason to doubt Trump's skill at actually doing anything besides laundering money and stiffing vendors and filing bankruptcy.

3)This is at least sensible.

The OP may be getting a little unhinged at the sinking realization that Putin doesn't have an endgame for Syria. Putin will have enough trouble keeping himself afloat, he can't carry Turkey too. And the US/Israeli drive against Iran means that leaving Iranian ally Assad alone is a non-starter. There is zero reason to think Trump's victory in the midterms will magically reverse current policy. And supposedly it's the opponents who want an even more aggressive war in Syria, so their victory---which is a real possibility---will make that even more likely.

The truth is that Putin is a mediocrity, chosen by Yeltsin for no good reason whatsoever.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 22 2018 23:54 utc | 40


Lol. Putin wanted revenge for US interfering and getting Yeltsin elected? Putin became President only because of Yeltsin. By interfering and getting Yeltsin elected we got Putin. Perhaps that was the plan. Putins our puppet (and Israels). When he was in St Petersburg in the 90's he was the go to guy to approve any foreign investment. His mentor who was responsible for the neoliberal constitution and Mayor was then up on corruption charges and forced into exile. You think we dont have Kompromat on Putin? Browder and his buddies collected all kinds of intelligence in the 90's , and there is probably a pretty thick dossier on him.

As for the leaked emails, look no further than Seth Rich. Inside job. Social media? Lol. Israel had more to do with Trump getting elected than Russia. All that free media coverage. No real coverage of his mafia connections and questionable financial dealings not to mention his treatment of women. It still took Comey of the FBI to come out and say days before voting that he was reopening thr HRC investigation to get him elected and he still lost the popular vote.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 23 2018 0:15 utc | 41

Stumpy @37

According to Wikipedia:

"........In June and July 2016, cybersecurity experts and firms, including CrowdStrike,[114] Fidelis, FireEye,[115] Mandiant, SecureWorks,[116] Symantec[115] and ThreatConnect, stated the DNC email leaks were part of a series of cyberattacks on the DNC committed by two Russian intelligence groups, called Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear,[117][7] also known respectively as APT28 and APT29 /......"

According to the Guardian (DNC email leak: Russian hackers Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear behind breach

".......Security firm ThreatConnect issued a comprehensive report on Tuesday using their own data and data from previous reports by rivals CrowdStrike, Mandiant and Fidelis......"

According to the Washington Post (Cyber researchers confirm Russian government hack of Democratic National Committee

Two independent research firms have confirmed an assessment by the Democratic National Committee that its network was compromised by Russian government hackers.


The DNC had hired the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike to investigate the breach, and the firm found that two Russian hacker groups penetrated the network at different times.

Guccifer 2.0’s claim came a day after the DNC acknowledged the intrusion and CrowdStrike announced its findings in a blog post. The hacker posted documents to a website that appeared to have been stolen from the DNC.

Now at least two other cybersecurity firms — Fidelis Cybersecurity and Mandiant — have seconded CrowdStrike’s conclusion.


“Based on our comparative analysis, we agree with CrowdStrike and believe that the Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear . . . groups were involved in successful intrusions at the DNC,” Michael Buratowski, a senior executive at Fidelis, said in a blog post Monday....."

So all of these cybersecurity firms confirmed the analysis by Crowdstrike.

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 23 2018 0:19 utc | 42

Trump knows what I know: the Mueller investigation is cover for Hillary Clinton based on the Steele Dossier cooked up by Clinton employees and the core (all we got) "evidence" on the essential charge: collusion betwixt Trump and Putin. Do you honestly think if they had something it would not have leaked by now? This continuing defense of the now prolonged bullshit amazes me. Then again did you happen to recall what happened in 03?

Posted by: Sid2 | Sep 23 2018 0:25 utc | 43

@ Stumpy: folks that voted for Trump and I wasn't one of them did not do so mainly to deny Hillary. They wanted change, this desire for change has been going on now for many years, and Trump offered it. Trump is their maverick, and he can do no wrong.

Posted by: Sid2 | Sep 23 2018 0:26 utc | 44

"The Democrats have nothing big to run on"

I dispute that. There are many Dems running on big ideas. Medicare For All is becoming more of a rallying cry with the progressive movement with new polls showing 70% of Americans and even half of GOP voters favor an idea such as that. We spend 18% of GDP on healthcare (about $3.5 trillion) a year and we have 30M uninsured, hospitals/drug companies price gouging with their monopolies, insurance companies being bureaucratic, inefficient, and also hiking premiums. Many Democrat candidates are running on healthcare and it has a cross-over effect with independents and even voters who went Obama 2008-Obama 2012-Trump 2016. In the midwest, you have incumbent Senators poised to win re-election and gubernatorial candidates running with a spine on issues and contrasting them with the GOP and Koch funded PACs.

I wish we had this energy on healthcare in 2009.

Climate Change is another big issue. SCOTUS would be a big deal if Dems win the Senate... they can effectively block anymore extremist right wing Federalist Society nominees for federal judge spots. With the 10 year anniversary of the financial crisis, Wall Street is another big issue. But unfortunately, we have financiers and lobbyists still weighing heavily onto the Dem establishment who I sometimes think are paid to lose.

Posted by: Faazzla | Sep 23 2018 0:27 utc | 45

Stumpy and Adrian E:

Caveat lector. Multiple commenters on other discussion boards have pointed out the dubiousness of "craigsummers'" arguments, the main purpose of which seems to be to obfuscate and derail meaningful conversation.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Sep 23 2018 0:31 utc | 46

Trump last night at a rally told the crowd there was "a lingering stench" in the DOJ but that "group" would be gone soon.

I think Trump is underestimated. Time after time in the campaign, I says, that's it, he's done, it's over--and he came back. The man is resilient. I fear for his life.

Posted by: Sid2 | Sep 23 2018 0:35 utc | 47

craigsummers question:

What could be typical inteligence employee/officers second language in USA?
What could be typical inteligence employee/officers second language in Britain?
In Canada?
In France?
In Germany?

Last but not least WHAT IS a typical inteligence/officers second language in Israel? (that would be the IDF)
What is the second most spoken language in the IDF besides yidish?
Is it English....OR?
What is it?

(the post is made regarding the "Russian Hackers" enigma)

Posted by: Greece | Sep 23 2018 0:42 utc | 48

@46 Acknowledged.

As our friend has painted himself into Wikipedia, I will tire the forum only as far as that the cyberattack was cast as doubtful by The Forensicator and MoA barflies don’t need a refresher.

The DOJ slow-walking Trump’s declassification order speaks to the languid final throes of the russiagate conspirators to extend their loss. Carter Page, James Comey, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page all have “Former” leading their titles, as do Andrew McCabe and John Brennan.

I presume that b may choose to cover the Ahvaz attack, on which the NYT will have a piece?

Posted by: Stumpy | Sep 23 2018 1:13 utc | 49

please folks.. this craigsummers dipshit is here to fuck with the thread... just ignore the dipshit, as talking sense to him does no good and turns this thread into a complete bullshit distraction, which is what cs is all about..

@15 jackrabbit! good one!!

@24 adrian E - good post.. thanks for stating all that..

@32 uncle tungsten... ditto.. thanks.

Posted by: james | Sep 23 2018 1:23 utc | 50

Perceptive and succinct, b. Thank you.

I really appreciate that you do not thrust your opinion as to what outcome you would prefer with Trump and the control of the House for the next two years. As you say, there is very little daylight btw the two options. However, I look forward to the repeal of a certain decision that has allowed Federal overreach in matters of "reproductive health," which would kick it back to the states and allow the will of the local people to be reenacted. America...Fuck yeah!

Just as us Americans should not comment on Euro politics besides the obvious odious display of Globalist agenda which has ravaged the west, in general, you do your best to not pander to obvious partisanship. It's what keeps me coming back.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2018 2:53 utc | 51

I don't get this paragraph in the NYT article:

Mr. Rosenstein was just two weeks into his job. He had begun overseeing the Russia investigation and played a key role in the president’s dismissal of Mr. Comey by writing a memo critical of his handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation. But Mr. Rosenstein was caught off guard when Mr. Trump cited the memo in the firing, and he began telling people that he feared he had been used.

He tells the President one thing, but tells everyone else he meant something different.

How could such a feeble-minded twit attain high office in the first place?

Posted by: Bob Jackson | Sep 23 2018 3:07 utc | 52

@12 dltravers

Careful with that last comment about drugged-out losers around here. The sanctity of victimhood is revered by many a poster. Nevermind that they have never shoveled the shit of these doomed-souls from impromptu camps that they have been driven away from, as I have. Shit and tired of excuses.

Hasn't anyone ever seen The Battle of Algiers around here? Do they remember the scene where the drunk was beat to death by children because he wasn't fit for the revolution. Now that's will!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2018 3:09 utc | 53

@20 pft

The reason why I am not completely sold as to your assertion that the economy isn't as strong as it is being portrayed is a two-parter:

1) Trump would not have initiated the retractions in trade agreements with China and others had he been told that the economy couldn't weather it.
2) I used to hear ad nauseum about those who had dropped out of the workforce...I don't any longer, nor do I put the same amount of clout into what that number actually means. For instance, is it a "bad" thing to have a parent home with the kids? Doesn't this mean that one-income is sufficing?

And D) Home prices are up, but these are in metro areas booming due to tech. There is a bubble, but is it truly national?

That being said...what makes an econony strong? What number is the best indicator? Even the poor have AC and Xbox. As a union laborer, my wife stays home with the kid and I see construction is booming in the NW? Are they building wild west front-store facades or something?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2018 3:31 utc | 54

James @50

"......please folks.. this craigsummers dipshit is here to fuck with the thread... just ignore the dipshit, as talking sense to him does no good and turns this thread into a complete bullshit distraction, which is what cs is all about......."

You are completely wrong James. I'm not affiliated with anyone, nor do I post to troll. A better question is why do you fear alternative opinions??

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 23 2018 3:41 utc | 55


Appropo of this delusional moment in USArya history, before the Red tidal wave in November, this comment I found from 2 years ago, just before Trump took power, shows not everyone was deluded:

"Sadly,the current Corporate-State media in the USA would no longer publish stories like the ones penned by Snowden, because of the near-monopolistic control of all forms of mass media by 3 or 4 mega Corporations.

In today's world, both US war parties are united in maintaining the imperialist hegemony of the Wall Street-Pentagon ruling elite, and the mainstream media is marching, goose-step like, with the imperial war hawks in Washington DC.

So while the call for more Snowdens is commendable, the reality is that Wikileaks will fall on deaf ears inside the self-imposed info cocoon that surrounds the USA Fascust State!"

Posted by: Anton Worter | Sep 23 2018 3:43 utc | 56

Farm ecologist @46

"......Multiple commenters on other discussion boards have pointed out the dubiousness of "craigsummers'" arguments, the main purpose of which seems to be to obfuscate and derail meaningful conversation......."

i.e., provide an alternative opinion.


Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 23 2018 3:48 utc | 57

The current economy is like nothing I have ever seen in my long life. It is unbelievable in my neck of the woods. I will not argue that it is crack induced by debt. Reagan did much of the same after Carter. Carter actually balanced the budget once or twice.

Homeless losers is just an observation and a real one at that. Every freeway on ramp has a homeless person collecting money. I have a homeless shelter near me and drive by it and I can see. We have a massive amount of help here for those who want to get back on their feet.

I was one of them once. I made a plan to change. One day in jail was enough for me. It was time to get of my arse and do something different.

The middle class losers who have no money have really nice automobiles. In fact, they have large outstanding payments on multiple autos. I am talking about $35,000 autos with little down. Most are pretty stupid about how to mange money hence they have none. Like the G, they throw debt around like candy on Halloween.

They purchased homes they could not afford and lost them. I watched and waited patiently and picked up a home cheap. I listened to my friends brag about their new Mcmansions that they poured 300K into from their previous home and then lost it all on a crappy loan. Sheer stupidity about economics. They ALL shut the hell up when the mortgage crisis hit.

I used to tell them, the monthly property taxes alone are one weeks salary for you. How do you plant to make it happen?

They have 1000 dollar cell phones that they replace every two years, they have expensive phone plans, they got I Pads they got droids. Pretty soon they will be taking out loans on robots. They got it all, they spend it all. Its their choice, its their fault.

Lets all blame the system. But wait, we are the system.

Posted by: dltravers | Sep 23 2018 3:49 utc | 58

Compare this situation to the Miami Herald story of October 18, 1973 that alleged Archibald Cox was opening up an investigation into Bebe Rebozo's tax issues. This sent Nixon into a rage (he feared it would open up the can of worms of Howard Hughes's $100,000 contribution) and may very well have been a factor (besides Al Haig's manipulations) in his firing Cox two days later. Turns out however that the story was fake news -Cox had a conflict of interest as his brother was a law partner of Chester Davis (a Hughes's man) and would have had to recuse himself from such an investigation. So who planted that Miami Herald story? -Source: Citizen Hughes by Michael Drosnin.

Posted by: Ron O | Sep 23 2018 4:00 utc | 59

40 2)

Not that anyone on EU-based MoA cares aboutbthe USA economy, but in the West everyone has pulled in their horns, cranes are idle, asking prices are falling both and urban, everyone felt the September flat top. Unions are laying off apprentices, and consultants have no new book. The industries are flat too, no new contracts, not even turnarounds, highly unusual. Same with the, Trump is borrowing $200B a month just to stop the Deficit crack-spread and but he's burning $450B a month.

Because of the immigration thing, there are lots of jobs for landscaperd, maintenance technicians, truck drivers and catering servers, traditional immigrant work. And just below that there are hundreds and hundreds of open jobs for Ubrr/Lyft drivers and Amazon warehouse personnel. W-1099 gigging for pennies is alive and well.

The grocery store clerk told me he's paying $1,150 for an efficiency apartment, an unemplyed single mother toldme she's laddering credit cards to pay $2,300 a month, and an unemployed student toldme he's payung $1,200 for basic Medicaid, made me choke, no medical center accepts Medicaid patients.

So rentiers are doing well. Until they're not. This is going to be a long, long 45 days until the civil war.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Sep 23 2018 4:05 utc | 60

AW @ 56 said in part:"In today's world, both US war parties are united in maintaining the imperialist hegemony of the Wall Street-Pentagon ruling elite, and the mainstream media is marching, goose-step like, with the imperial war hawks in Washington DC."

Yep, absolutely true, and DJT is there to serve their interests, just like the Clintons, Obama, and whoever comes next.

Posted by: ben | Sep 23 2018 4:09 utc | 61

jackrabbit @15

good one! funny
and good ending there. agreed!

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 23 2018 5:08 utc | 62

Nothing to run on next election? Maybe they should try this one area.

Health care is a huge issue, something most of the first world countries know nothing of.

Posted by: ben | Sep 23 2018 5:08 utc | 63

Oh, and here's another problem area most first world countries don't worry about:

"Student loan debt. It’s one stat that is currently gripping the nation at a hefty $1.4+ trillion. It’s got plenty of people worried including students, graduates, parents, employers, and politicians alike. Well, it is not to be understated to say the least; in fact, it is the second leading form of debt in the United States behind mortgage debt." (another monster to worry about elsewhere)

Nothing to run on ?

Posted by: ben | Sep 23 2018 5:18 utc | 64

DLTravers @ 12:

You don't say where you live but if all the homeless people in your area are either white Americans or black Americans, and none of them appears to "look" Latino or Asian, then perhaps that's because most Latino and Asian people living and/or working where you are, are still young enough to be able to work and to find jobs, and have the support of extended families who don't mind or can afford to give relatives, however distant they are, space in their homes to stay.

If Latino and Asian American families were to have similar structures as white and black American families do (that is, one or two parents and children only living together), and furthermore, Latino and Asian American residency in the US were as long as the other two groups, then the proportion of homeless who are Latino and Asian American would be much higher.

National Law Center on Poverty & Homelessness, "Homelessness in America: Overview of Data and Causes"

Posted by: Jen | Sep 23 2018 5:47 utc | 65

Nemsiscalling@54, dltravers@58

Trump could care less about the middle class IMO. China sanctions are about revenue production to replace tax cuts for the rich. The tarrifs are all passed onto the consumer. Sanctions will drive up oil prices. Interest rates will increase to combat inflation after midterms. Bubbles will pop here , there and everywhere. Under new legislation Banks will be authorized to seize saving deposits to prop up reserves .

I dont think looking at isolated examples of a few peoples financial mismanagement is productive. Certainly those few in unions may have a rosier perception of the economy but union members are a fraction of what they were 40 years ago especially in the private sector. In the public sector my sister just retired at 55 at full pay (6 figures) and medical benefits. Life is good.

Meanwhile labor participation rates are the lowest in over 40 years. They were even lower before 1978 due to many women were able to stay at home as housewives

Sure, at the height of property bubbles you see plenty of construction. The banks who make the loans that make such construction possible got bailed out by the government in the past, and now depositors. Who said socialism is dead.

Infrastructure? A weak category 1 hurricane causes 60 billion in damages to a state in hurricane alley. 3 towns in Massachusetts have 60 houses exploding in 2hrs due to faulty gas lines. How about spend some money on infrastructure

One of the tricks used with government stats beyond which I spoke of earlier is understating inflation. A historical comparison of median household wealth 50 years ago shows a slight increase today (at the top of a RE/stock bubble) adjusted with these figures. That would be negative growth if a more reasonable measure of inflation was used. Shadowstats has more on this.

The other trick is using household income for comparisons. 50 years ago people had 6 kids on one income, and could put most of them through college at little or no debt for parents or kids. How about now? Two incomes, two kids, and many struggle to make it to retirement with much savings. They will rely on social security , Medicare and medicaid (if a nursing home required). All of these programs will soon be cut.

Decent article by PCR. Also recommend Michael Hudson

EU is following US economic decline. Their social welfare net is a target of EU austerity measures. UK is already seeing a decline. Others will follow, 'maybe not as drastic as Greece, but its coming

In any event, an asset bubble collapse in US will leave nobody unaffected as the global economy is so interlocked. Enjoy the ride.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 23 2018 5:54 utc | 66

@64 jen

Maybe whites and blacks should emulate Latino and Asian family structures then that emphasize tradition and care for the elderly. That was hard, wasn't it? Do we need the government to tell us that? I don't understand what you are trying to get at. Are we supposed to immediately say sorry for your excuse of poor nurturing. Is it that much of a big, bad world?

Coming to grips with my parents divorce in my early years, I have decided now as a husband and father to never inflict this pain on my child. Problem solved.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2018 6:41 utc | 67

@65 pft

Strong unions are emblematic of a time of great cleverness, on both sides. Neither trusts the other, so they both are on their guard. A weak show of unions is either the result of satisfaction with regards to the worker, or it is an end to the cycle of employer withholding and start of worker grievance.

So smile, friend, the age of bohica has either stopped or is in its twilight and a new era of worker cleverness will emerge. In either case, producers still need people to buy their goods. People just need to learn that the ability to consume is not neccesarrily the hallmark of a happy people.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23 2018 6:52 utc | 68

"You are completely wrong James. I'm not affiliated with anyone, nor do I post to troll. A better question is why do you fear alternative opinions??

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 22, 2018 11:41:34 PM | 55"

It's not alternative but dumb.

Posted by: CoincidenceTheorist | Sep 23 2018 7:12 utc | 69

“Homelessness…..drugged out losers”

Careful now, those drugged out losers have been very good to us. Thanks to these losers, the Sackler Family has amassed one of the largest family fortunes in the US, way over $14 billion)

And we made this fortune by peddling the highly addictive, and often deadly, opiate painkiller Oxycontin, and labeling it as “abuse resistant”


Purdue Pharma, which is 100 percent owned by us, has generated over $35 billion dollars since releasing Oxycontin in 1996. The first year the drug accounted only $45 million in sales, but by 2000 that number had skyrocketed to $1.1 billion, an increase of over 2,000 percent!

How did we do it?

Simple. First by identifying doctors across America who were prescribing the most pain medication and then strategically marketed the drug directly to them as a safe alternative to other pain medications. And soon after this, we were marketing oxycontin directly to ALL US doctors

The irony is that many of these “drugged out losers” were veterans of one of the many US wars for Israel, and part of Sackler family profits from Oxycontin go to supporting these wars by supporting the State of Israel

Although,I prefer spending my Oxycontin profits promoting “queer theory” “feminism” and “feminist art” via the
Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art

Posted by: Not Elizabeth Sackler | Sep 23 2018 8:10 utc | 70

B, "the uneducated" would be a better reference than "the poor." Polls are slanted by all sides: there was a two-mile long line for the latest Trump ralley in MO...we should judge popularity by what we see, not polls owned by the progressives. Horsewhisperer, there will be no civil war here because in the end, where we go one, we go all, no matter how many clever Israeli attacks on Syria's people we see...

Posted by: 46ZERing | Sep 23 2018 8:57 utc | 71

Not Elizabeth Sackler | Sep 23, 2018 4:10:18 AM | 69
Whats the low-down on the opiate crisis Ive been reading about?
There must be something in this for big pharma, right?

Posted by: dan | Sep 23 2018 9:44 utc | 72

I agree with Arauxo post 2 .....there are plenty of good people in the US that could have been with him but they are marginalized by the scum. Plus Trump's stupidity and MO will always alienate good people. Who can tolerated him for extended period of time? His lies and double crossing sends good people out the door.

Posted by: Joe | Sep 23 2018 11:12 utc | 73

Use a search engine other than google, type in Sackler family + Opioid Crisis and you should find dozens of links explaining how the Sackler family made billions by ruthlessly marketing pain killers that they knew all along were highly addictive

Here’s one from 3 years ago:
As Cops Throw People in Cages for Weed, the Makers of Deadly OxyContin Join the Ruling Class

Posted by: Not Elizabeth Sackler | Sep 23 2018 11:13 utc | 74

NemesisCalling @ 66:

I was only suggesting to DLTravers a possible explanation as to why the homeless people in his area seem mostly white or black American, and very few are Hispanic or Asian. I wasn't recommending that everyone should be living in extended families to avoid homelessness. Everyone who is homeless has his/her own reason/s for becoming homeless and for some people those reasons stem from living in dysfunctional home environments, living with partners or parents who abuse drink or drugs, who are violent or who abuse them physically / sexually / psychologically. If a person had a choice only between being homeless and staying with an abusive person (and risking life or limb by doing so), what would you tell that person to do?

Suppose though that most Hispanic and Asian Americans live long enough in the US, for at least three generations, their family environments may come to resemble those of Anglo and black Americans more (simply by being influenced by the dominant culture around them), their family members (by necessity or preference) will be more spread out and less likely to live in the same neighbourhood or community, and they may have less contact with one another or their former communities. If they have the same problems that Anglo and black American families have, with drugs, violence, unemployment, whatever, their homelessness rates will rise to match those of Anglo and black Americans.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 23 2018 11:29 utc | 75

Horsewhisperer, there will be no civil war here because in the end, where we go one, we go all, no matter how many clever Israeli attacks on Syria's people we see...
Posted by: 46ZERing | Sep 23, 2018 4:57:52 AM | 71

Glitch alert!
I haven't expressed an opinion about a looming US civil war:-)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 23 2018 13:19 utc | 76


That is the funniest comment that I have ever read here at the bar! May I suggest the folks here read it out loud and pronounce the last word Ed Sullivan style? As in "a really big shoe."

Posted by: morongobill | Sep 23 2018 13:57 utc | 77

Yours is an inspiring story and I am grateful that you shared it here. I agree with your observations as well. Spot on.

Posted by: morongobill | Sep 23 2018 14:08 utc | 78

The man is resilient. I fear for his life.

Posted by: Sid2 | Sep 22, 2018 8:35:46 PM | 47

What to worry about?

Trump has been doing his utmost for:

- MIC by increasing military budget, staying in Syria, sanctioning China and Russia at will;

- Zionists & AIPAC by granting tens of billions $$$ to Israel, moving US Embassy to Jerusalem, heading straight to fight another war (against Iran) for Israel;

- Super rich by cutting hundreds of billions of tax;

- Banksters by trying to force China to open up its financial market to let the Wall Street get their feast there.

American people probably should worry how much Medicare/Medicaid and other social benefits for the poor and ill Trump is going to cut to fill the budget gap.

Posted by: mali | Sep 23 2018 14:32 utc | 79

Jackrabbit @15:

One of the best posts at MOA! Maybe you should try to register this title "The Trump Show". :D

NemesisCalling @54

The reason Trump goes into trade war with China is less to do with the current status of US economy but more about him doing the WSJ's bidding and strangling China to upgrade its manufacturing:

-> Trump wants to force China to flat open its financial market to the predatory AOZ banksters. Current Chinese laws forbid foreign banks to set up their own 100% owned shops or JV with majority. Given the sheer size of Chinese financial market with huge savings, banksters have been drooling for years.

-> The real target of Trump’s trade war is ‘Made in China 2025’

Pft@66: Thanks for the link of PCR's article about economics.

Posted by: mali | Sep 23 2018 15:02 utc | 80

@ 70 Not Elizabeth Sackler

Samuel Beckett, spokesman for the homeless, poet of despair, and winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature, in his 1981 piece Ill Seen Ill Said sums up this world as:

“Void. Nothing else. Contemplate that. Not another word.
Home at last. Gently gently.
Modern humanity is at home in its homelessnes”

Harold Pinter on Samuel Beckett:

"The farther he goes the more good it does me. I don't want philosophies, tracts, dogmas, creeds, ways out, truths, answers, nothing from the bargain basement.

He is the most courageous, remorseless writer going and the more he grinds my nose in the shit the more I am grateful to him.

He's not fucking me about, he's not leading me up any garden path, he's not slipping me a wink, he's not flogging me a remedy or a path or a revelation or a basinful of breadcrumbs, he's not selling me anything I don't want to buy — he doesn't give a bollock whether I buy or not — he hasn't got his hand over his heart.

Well, I'll buy his goods, hook, line and sinker, because he leaves no stone unturned and no maggot lonely. He brings forth a body of beauty. His work is beautiful."

Posted by: anon | Sep 23 2018 15:33 utc | 81

Pft @ 66 said in part:" Under new legislation Banks will be authorized to seize saving deposits to prop up reserves ."

Signed in 2014:

Not E S: Good posts all, thanks for the light on the roaches..

Posted by: ben | Sep 23 2018 23:13 utc | 82

A curious feature of this site are the consistent errors in written English -- particularly the clumsy phrasing and errors in verbs and tenses ("the parties are do not different" ... "The currently most important one" "The Mueller investigation had no serious results" ... "running reasonably well except for the poor"). Curious.

Posted by: Guy | Sep 24 2018 14:24 utc | 83


Scoop: Rod Rosenstein is resigning

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has verbally resigned to Chief of Staff John Kelly in anticipation of being fired by President Trump, according to a source with direct knowledge.

Per a second source with direct knowledge: “He’s expecting to be fired,” so plans to step down.

Background: Rosenstein talked last year invoking the 25th Amendment and wearing a wire during Trump meetings, the N.Y. Times' Adam Goldman and Michael S. Schmidt reported last week. He denied both allegations.

If true Trump should ask him to stay until after the November election ...

Posted by: b | Sep 24 2018 14:45 utc | 84

"i.e., provide an alternative opinion." (craigsummers)

An "alternative opinion" which can be found every day in the NYTimes, WP, NPR, and every single outlet of the corporate or state media."

Shane Mage

Posted by: Fosforos | Sep 24 2018 15:07 utc | 85

@83 Yes that is indeed a most curious feature. Can you find any more?

Posted by: dh | Sep 24 2018 15:11 utc | 86

MSM outlets are now reporting Rosenstein offering to resign and reportedly is on his way to the White House for a showdown confrontation with Trump. High Noon. (well, CDT anyway)

Interesting turn of events. Will alpha male wanna be Trump back down even if in his best interest to do so? Could Trump be so stupid as to fire or accept the resignation of the Deputy AG before the mid term election, even after being warned in no undertain terms not to do so by his top unofficial advisor Sean Hannity?

Is Trump actually planning to govern as a de facto Democrat the final two years of his term?

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 24 2018 16:46 utc | 87

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