Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 16, 2018

The MoA Week In Review - Secret Bio-weapons - Skripals - OT 2018-47

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

The theme of the week was the now delayed operation to liberate Idelb governorate in Syria.


But the White Helmets will have to wait with their next 'chemical weapon' scam. The attack was delayed. The crisis has for now receded but the issue will be back in the news in some six to eight weeks.

The Bulgarian journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva published an extensive investigative piece on the secret U.S. biological weapon laboratory near Tbilisi, Georgia:

US diplomats involved in trafficking of human blood and pathogens for secret military program

The US Embassy to Tbilisi transports frozen human blood and pathogens as diplomatic cargo for a secret US military program. Internal documents, implicating US diplomats in the transportation of and experimenting on pathogens under diplomatic cover were leaked to me by Georgian insiders. According to these documents, Pentagon scientists have been deployed to the Republic of Georgia and have been given diplomatic immunity to research deadly diseases and biting insects at the Lugar Center – the Pentagon biolaboratory in Georgia’s capital Tbilisi.

A copy is also available at the Balkanspost. The Georgian government rejects the allegation and claims that the laboratory is under its full control. But why then is the U.S. buying even the toilet paper the scientist use in the lab?

Dilyana Gaytandzhieva previously published on secret weapon transfer from east-Europe to Syria and elsewhere under diplomatic cover.

The British government claimed that two Russian men, who traveled under the names Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, were in Salisbury to assassinate the British spy Sergej Skripal. It said that those names were likely false. But the chaps are real and talked with Russia Today editor-in-chief Margarita Simonyan. There is an English transcript of the full interview. Some of their answers may suggest that they are a gay couple. Looking at their picture this seems quite obvious to me ;-).


Petrov and Boshirov say that they went Salisbury on March 3 to see Stonehenge but were hampered by the weather. That might well be true. Stonehenge was indeed closed on March 3 because of high snowdrifts on the road to it. The chaps came back on March 4 but were again disappointed. Traffic was still hampered.

The newest British claim is that the two men partied the night before they allegedly tried to kill Skripal. They smoked grass and brought a prostitute into their hotel for some loud sex. Other guest complained to the staff. Only highly professional GRU agents with the most dangerous poison on a secret mission to assassinate a criminal Russia pardoned years ago would do such a thing.

Or would they?

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on September 16, 2018 at 16:08 UTC | Permalink

next page »

It's "Stonehenge" - not "hedge".

And why is everyone in the West so excited about Petrov's and Boshirov's sexual inclinations? Isn't that extremely non-PC? What on earth happened to their right to privacy? Besides which, the issue has absolutely nothing to do with the matter they are accused of.

It seems all Americans are permanently stuck in sexual fifth gear.

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Sep 16 2018 16:25 utc | 1

The Daily Mail is playing on old russophobic stereotypes that go back at least as far as Peter I's visit to London in 1698, where he was accused of boorish drunken noisy partying.

Posted by: shargash | Sep 16 2018 16:35 utc | 2

Actually, they are not homosexual.

As per the Daily Mail, they spent part of the night in their London hotel smoking joints and having sex with a female hooker, well into the wee hours, prior to their departure for Salisbury.

Some Russian "spies".

Posted by: Lea | Sep 16 2018 16:41 utc | 3

@Tom Welsh - Thank you, corrected.

Posted by: b | Sep 16 2018 18:03 utc | 5

@lea - please read to the end of my posts before commenting on them.

Thank you.

Posted by: b | Sep 16 2018 18:04 utc | 6

As per the Daily Mail, they spent part of the night in their London hotel smoking joints and having sex with a female hooker, well into the wee hours, prior to their departure for Salisbury.

A couple of would-be decadents?

Posted by: Guerrero | Sep 16 2018 18:16 utc | 7

Wow the GRU goes gay for pay ;-) lol
I hope they don't have too much trouble back home because of that.

Posted by: UserFriendly | Sep 16 2018 18:27 utc | 8

A common narrative. The alleged 9ll hijackers allegedly gregariously used hookers, booze and cocaine. An act which called attention to themselves. It's a thing bad guys do. They cannot control themselves, apparently.

OTOH, it is also a matter of psychological projection. Jimmy Jeff Gannon Guckert, a gay male prostitute and a reporter for Talon News was friendly with one or more persons in the Dubya Bush White House. He had comings and goings and overnight stays. This was largely ignored by the MSM.

The name of the band hired by the RNC for the Republican convention - the year that David Gregory danced with Karl Rove - was "Hookers And Blow".

They're a Christian Right "Family Values" band, obviously.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 16 2018 18:31 utc | 9

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Sep 16, 2018 12:25:55 PM | 1
And why is everyone in the West so excited about Petrov's and Boshirov's sexual inclinations?

The West has nothing to do with it.
The point is if they are a gay couple, it is way more likely that they are civilians as they claim, not two secret GRU agents on mission to disrupt the social order of Great Britain.
Russia is not an ancient Sparta, so it is highly unlikely that GRU has on its payroll
male operatives who are gay lovers too.

Posted by: hopehely | Sep 16 2018 18:33 utc | 10

Solution for Syria.

Offer every terrorist a free college education.

If they balk at Damascus U, they can go to Farouk U,
in Cairo.

Posted by: DineroDProfit | Sep 16 2018 18:41 utc | 11

@7 It's all starting to make sense now. Obviously the hooker was a bisexual undercover MI6 agent.

Posted by: dh | Sep 16 2018 18:49 utc | 12

I watched the subtitled video with Simonyan very carefully. I found the interview quite plausible and authentic. A few points to make.

First, I'm glad to see various commenters across the Web talking about the utter incompetence of the UK intelligence services. If the story is more or less true, then the UK just picked these two guys and made their story fit. Basically framed them, except not even with evidence, because the whole Skripal affair has consistently lacked any evidence of anything.

Second, I can well imagine the horror of finding your photographs splashed across every media outlet in Russia and Europe, and suddenly you go from being a free operative with the usual anonymity of ordinary life and business, and become notorious, or even infamous. Of course they want it to stop, purely from being recognized everywhere they go. But importantly too, they can see that they could end up being killed, maybe by the UK, who knows? The British government hasn't shown any concern so far for the lives of anyone caught up in this net.

And third, these guys obviously found or created some kind of gig that pays the bills. It either required them to travel to Europe or gave them the business excuse to go. That has probably ended for them now. I don't know what the Russian tax authorities are like, but if this were happening in the US, two self-employed business people could be very scared that the IRS would suddenly audit their tax returns, and disallow all those deductions for trips abroad, that were claimed as business expense and actually were just weekend junkets. This would be no laughing matter.

I've put myself in their shoes, and even if their business is an honest one (e.g., they're not mafia hit men or whatever the theories are currently), the story as it plays at face value certainly would account for all the anguish apparent in the interview. Their lives have just been ruined, and probably aren't going to improve anytime soon. If this is the case, I really feel sorry for them. And the UK government looks more chickenshit every day.


Thanks, b, for the opportunity to share these thoughts. I know the week was about Syria, but we never did have an on-topic way to air this story out until now.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 16 2018 19:26 utc | 13

Please look at this incredibly well researched article on the US Bio-warfare lab (Lugar) in Georgia. I advise you copy and file for future reference as it may not last long.

Other notes. Sputnick (I think) and Itar Tass reported on the Russians pointing out this secret complex as a dangerous chemical warfare centre. Note that the article suggests experiments have already been carried out on Russian territory (as well as Georgia and other places).
The Journalist took significant personal risks.
She may even have had the blessings of the Russians to publish this.

Posted by: stonebird | Sep 16 2018 20:15 utc | 14

As I've mentioned earlier, it was the RT editor who asked if they were gay. They denied it, saying there were just friends (who are also partners in business).

Worst case scenario, they are Eurasian Mafia.

IF they are Eurasian Mafia, then it is possible they are British assets. The British are famous for using Russian criminals and agents as assets -- Skripal himself being one of them.

However, none of this matters: in the interview for the RT, both denied they had a Nina Gucci perfume bottle (which is for women) with them. The British published not only the brand, but also the exact model of the product, which they designated as the muder weapon (in the quality of the vessel of the chemical). They stated that -- based on the CCTV only -- there was a box that seemed like the box of the perfume they divulged (the aforementioned Nina Gucci, a pink/redish box).

The only thing that matters now is: do the British have evidence they had the bottle or not? This is the only point that can be refuted or not between both versions of the story.

If the Russian couple had the bottle, then it would be no stress for the MI5/6 to have access to the airport x-rays images (if they transported it from Russia) or the receipts of all local stores that could've sold the product (if they bought it in the UK -- a very unlikely scenario). Since they didn't show, until today, the evidence of the bottle's existence, I consider, for all practical purposes, that the British are lying.

Now, if the Russian couple really are mafia goons and, because of that, were very uncomfortable in the interview with the RT; or really are a gay couple (that would mean the end of their business and lives in Russia, because homossexualism is considered a very bad vice, specially among the Orthodox), then that's only a side story.

Posted by: vk | Sep 16 2018 20:16 utc | 15

Dan Cohen has an excellent mini-doc (part one has been released so far) on war propaganda in Western media pushing regime change in Syria:

It will not be any new information for regular readers here of course but it is well edited and produced and good for sharing with friends who have not yet questioned too much the narrative on Syria.

Posted by: George Lane | Sep 16 2018 20:29 utc | 16

The only thing that matters now is: do the British have evidence they had the bottle or not? This is the only point that can be refuted or not between both versions of the story.
Things that matter more IMO are:
1. Where are the Skripals?
2. How come that BBC or any other British media cannot produce an equivalent interview from their side? Why BBC does not have an interview with British citizen Sergey Skripal?
3. So far the British side put forward verifiable info only about these 2 Russian visitors. And some details turned out to be false - Brits said their names ware fake but the RT interview debunked that. Beside these 2 Russians, nothing else in the Skripal case is verifiable - we just have dubious stories from official sources, no references, no evidence, nothing but hearsay. Outrageous. Shameless brazen insolence.

Posted by: hopehely | Sep 16 2018 20:58 utc | 17

>>>> Lea | Sep 16, 2018 12:41:59 PM | 3
The same Daily Mail that claimed Putin a couple of days ago had whacked both of them. I can't find a link but the Mirror reported it as well

And what to make of this rant - seems pretty clear that the authors had dropped some acid.

Meanwhile, the Mirror is claiming that the moronic fuckups at MI6 have penetrated GRU, and that there is a sinister Dr. Mengele/Dr. Evil-like character involved

I don't think the two Russians are gay but I do think that they may have been up to something else in the UK, perhaps dealing in performance enhancing drugs which appear to be available over the counter in Russia but are prescription only in the UK so there is a black market in the UK that operates in many gyms across the UK.

Is the Skripal case a Wag-the-Dog moment for the Conservative government to deflect interest from MI6's involvement in compiling the Steele document - they can't go to war with anyone any more but they can launch a pissy little black op particularly if Skripal had tried to off himself with fentanyl.

BTW, with all the CCTV in the UK, you'd think there'd be something between the filling station on Wilton Road and the bridge on Fisherton Street over an hour later.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 16 2018 21:06 utc | 18

I reported this yesterday. All war crimes are serious, but attacking an international airport in close proximity to an event hosting thousands of civilians from around the world has a degree of hideousness about it that recalls the terrorism waged by Begin and his gang prior to Israel being carved out of Palestine. The Zionist attack must be called what it is--an act of terrorism.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2018 21:23 utc | 19

According to Richard Lugar himself (,
"The lab's mission will be to promote infectious disease detection, epidemiological surveillance, and research for the benefit of the United States, Georgia, the Caucasus region, and the global community." While this sounds nice & high-minded, eastern European and Russian media (see New Eastern Outlook), and independent reporters, notably Jeffrey Silverman, have been reporting questionable activities since at least 2011. He and other journalists have suffered physical violence for their efforts. IIRC, the first director of the lab was moved over from her position as head of Georgian intelligence services, although she's since been replaced.

Posted by: cassandra | Sep 16 2018 21:43 utc | 20

Guckert/Gannon wasn't just "entertaining" White House people. He claimed he was entertaining (his word) Tony Blair in D.C. when David Kelly was murdered.

Posted by: lysias | Sep 16 2018 21:55 utc | 21

"Use as open thread ..."

OK, I've posted here before asking the same thing and I'd like to ask again since it's been a while. You all were a great help last time, but I'm finding less and less alternative media websites and I thought I'd ask around again.

Since this is an open thread, I'd like to ask people what other websites that they know about that I could use. I'm talking about "alternative media" websites. Either alternative news websites or alternative media websites in general. That is what I'm looking for.

Let me share some alternative news websites that I've found. Hopefully, you'll find some here that you've never seen before:

This website.

That's all I know at the time being. I've been to more, but I don't want to overdo it.

Now that I did that, I'd like to again ask if anyone has some alternative media websites that I've never seen before. Either alternative news, alternative media websites in general, or even alternative history. Please, I'm really looking for help here. I'm always on the look-out for more alt-media websites, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated. If you don't, that's fine. But I'm always searching for more websites like Moon of Alabama.

Again, alternative news, alternative history, or alternative media websites in general. That's what I'm looking for.

Since this is an "open thread," I thought posting my plea here would be acceptable.

Posted by: TruthFinder | Sep 16 2018 21:56 utc | 22

The "Syria - The Rationale Behind The Delay Of Idleb's Liberation" post raises a point that I've been struggling to clarify. I'm posting this on the open thread because it's not specific to the Idlib situation.

I haven't used methamphetamines since my high-school days, c. 1970. But I still remember the effects; it was called "speed" back then, for a reason.

In general, Western societies have been generally ratcheted up to a point that universally affects members in a manner similar to "speed". Perhaps it's less hyperbolic to say that it's as if the entire society is gripped by permanent "caffeine nerves".

Much has been written about the accelerated pace of technologically-"advanced" societies, liquid modernity, etc. The mass-media "24/7" news cycle also has a role in keeping the population in a constant state of anxiety.

The US, where I live, is surely Babylon Central. But this "mass jitters syndrome" is a Western pandemic that affects the EU as well.

So: when I watch politicians like Putin and Lavrov, it's obvious to me that they are not hagridden by this "speed freak" sensibility, for lack of a better term. Unlike their Western counterparts, they are not given over to wildly elevated, hollow, mendacious rhetoric; they are neither superciliously obnoxious nor frantic in their demeanor and attitude.

In short, they don't run around as if they think they're ten feet tall superheroes, appointed to bellow out orders and ultimatums to the rest of the world while saving the day with overwhelming force.

They remind me of Amerikans of a prior generation-- not just politicians and leaders, but ordinary working men like my late father. They are eminently sober and rational; they are deliberate in the best sense of the term. Just compare them to the crazed clowns and posers in the West! On a personal level, Angela Merkel is the only politician who seems comparably serious and thoughtful in this old-fashioned sense.

I thought of all this after reading so many comments, here and elsewhere, expressing skepticism and disdain towards the Russians for, in effect, taking their time with the Idlb endgame. It's like watching speed freaks fidgeting at some slow-talking speaker, or grabbing the speaker by the lapels and screaming "Talk faster!"

I think it would behoove us maddened Westerners to consider that Russian culture and politics isn't pathologically amped-up the way the West has become; they don't have the speedy compulsion to do something-- anything-- immediately if not sooner, and then ask questions (or not) afterwards.

There's more to all this, of course, but it just seems as if Putin, Lavrov, and probably the Russian military brass still believe things like "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

The jazzed and jangled West has lost, or forgotten, the virtues of patience and deliberation. So when Russia fails to "rush in" with bold interventions into complex geopolitical and military crises, to us it looks like they're vacillating, confused, duplicitous, or just "weak".

There's madness and badness everywhere, but I find that the Russians behave "normally", albeit with a normalcy that has become extinct in our putatively advanced Western culture.

Posted by: Ort | Sep 16 2018 22:04 utc | 23

The Grayzone Project, unfortunately edited by Max Blumenthal, has released a video: The Syria Deception: Al Qaeda Goes To Hollywood. I've yet to watch, but it's been viewed by a few people I respect like those at ElectronicIntifada; so, despite Blumenthal's affiliation, I posted the link.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2018 22:09 utc | 24

@20 Truthfinder that is a good list, although I have to say I am not a big fan of The Duran as they seem to pander to alt-right audiences with clickbait headlines like "This guy DESTROYS SOCIALISM in TWO WORDS", but I have respect for their editor in chief Alexander Mercouris who writes high-quality columns.

I would add decades-old journals like Monthly Review, and individuals to follow like philosophers Slavoj Zizek and Alain Badiou (read their books!).

Posted by: George Lane | Sep 16 2018 22:12 utc | 25

@karlof1, I know Max Blumenthal is not liked at this website for understandable reasons, but his recent work particularly on Nicaragua which cut against the grain of corporate media narrative deserves to be lauded.

Posted by: George Lane | Sep 16 2018 22:14 utc | 26

@20 -- not alt media but good for tracking down little nuggets to support an argument -- -- hope they don't mind.

Posted by: Stumpy | Sep 16 2018 22:14 utc | 27

Ghost Ship@17

“BTW, with all the CCTV in the UK, you'd think there'd be something between the filling station on Wilton Road and the bridge on Fisherton Street over an hour later.”

My exact thought. There should be a lot more surveillance video of those two. That it has not been shown suggests it contradicts the UK governments story

Posted by: Alaric | Sep 16 2018 22:15 utc | 28

>>>> Alaric | Sep 16, 2018 6:15:28 PM | 25

There are claims that the police watched 11,000 hours of CCTV. Since they knew the time period when the alleged attack took place - at most over about eight hours, that translates to well over a thousand video cameras and they could manage no more than about 20 images of the alleged perpetrators.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 16 2018 22:28 utc | 29

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 16, 2018 2:31:57 PM | 9

I guess it is also used to deflect from maybe blackmail of gay people being involved.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 16 2018 22:29 utc | 30

Just looked at the local media in Salisbury.

From last year:

Salisbury CCTV system being installed first cameras are live

Work is well underway to install a brand new state-of-the-art CCTV system in Salisbury, with some cameras now live.
This process has taken longer than any of us had wanted, however the hard work with our partners is now paying off, and the people of Salisbury can be reassured their city is being overseen by a state-of-the-art modern system.
Work will be completed later this year.

And if anybody claims that the control room was only recently staffed:

The city's CCTV cameras were switched on more than a year ago, in August 2017, and footage has been available to the police but the control room has been unmanned.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 16 2018 22:41 utc | 31

Ghost Ship @26

If they know who they are looking for this can be done with Big Data Software on computers without human eyes going frame by frame. For example, If they want to capture all frames of any Russian in the UK which they have from their immigration department visa photos they just create an algorithm and let it the tech do its thing

Posted by: Pft | Sep 16 2018 22:50 utc | 32

George Lane @23--

You are correct about most feelings toward him at MoA; so, I provided the two disclaimers. I note that neither Vanessa Beeley or Eva Bartlett retweet his (Dan Cohen) work despite doing so for other WH exposers.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2018 22:57 utc | 33

>>>> Pft | Sep 16, 2018 6:50:54 PM | 29

From what I understand, the software is used to extract potential candidates for human matching and it's not particularly reliable. False negatives would be a major problem. The Met have an on-going super recognizer project.

There has been another incident in Salisbury tonight:

A source briefed by the emergency services told Press Association that medics alerted the police because the symptoms were consistent with novichok poisoning, but stressed the symptoms could have other causes.
“The ambulance crew at the site took the decision that the symptoms seemed consistent with novichok poisoning, which is why they called their colleagues in the police,” the source reportedly said, adding: “The symptoms of novichok poisoning and particular types of narcotic abuse are very similar.”

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 16 2018 23:06 utc | 34

Over the years i have noticed how CCTV footage or camera footage is released when someone is holding up a 7/11 or the cops really want to find someone. If it is an event they want to cover up the video is held back. All the footage may be exculpatory hence it is not shown. They were probably enjoying their new found freedom in the capitalist whorehouses of the West.

Posted by: dltravers | Sep 16 2018 23:07 utc | 35


William engdahl, stepehen lenderman, paul craig Roberts, sst (pat lang), ellen brown

Posted by: Pft | Sep 16 2018 23:37 utc | 36

@ Ghost Ship with the comment about the recent Salisbury incident...thanks

I haven't been following this very close but it seems incredible to me that they compare "particular types of narcotic abuse" with novichok poisoning which others have written here is slam blam lethal and potentially dangerous to first responders.

Is this the lie repeat function happening here? Will it work this time?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 17 2018 0:08 utc | 37

Looks like the food poisoning theory was correct after all:

Salisbury on high alert after two people taken ill in restaurant

Either that, or Porton Down is doing a crap job in containing its hazardous disposal.

Posted by: vk | Sep 17 2018 0:08 utc | 38

I just read that two people in Salisbury were complaining of feeling ill in a restaurant today.

Posted by: Mischi | Sep 17 2018 0:14 utc | 39

It seems pretty likely that the englander insecurity services have stitched up those two russkies from top to bottom by investigating backwards. Rather than tracing back through actual evidence and tracking down the miscreants they have used their data gathering services to find any Russians who were in Salisbury on the day Skripal got sick. It isn't a perfect match hence the issues with the pair arriving in Salisbury too late to paint the doorknob at a time before the Skripals last touched it, but combined with the disinformation leaked to assorted media who willingly comply lest Leveson 2 (which was about investigating the routine leakage of sensitive information from government agencies to the media - generally for money, a more effective carrot than patriotism with police & intelligence etc) everything should be Jake.
That is the problem faced by the pair should they elect to front up to the Brits and say "charge me & prove it". The prosecution could invoke 'national security' hold the trial in camera and then cherry pick evidence. The discovery process in england is riddled with 'accidental amnesia' where the prosecution fails to supply defence with relevant information.
They would have to be a very brave couple of buff bodybuilders to take their chances with the corrupt englander system which has been executing innocents for a thousand years.
I cannot believe though that by now the bumbling Mr Plods haven't worked out who the real culprit is and given the revelations of a couple of hours ago - that another pair of Russians have been poisoned in a Salisbury Italian restaurant, it will be interesting to see how this new problem is dealt with. I stick to my original theory that it is the proximity of Salisbury to Porton Downs which is the crucial determinant and that russians are being targeted by someone who is angry about Syria since on both occasions the poisonings have occurred just as the terrorists in Syria are about to cop a big defeat.
How hard is it to check out if any Syrians are at Porton getting trained in the fine art of knocking up chemical weapons? Of course the guilty party won't be charged and it is likely that given the problems with attributing blame for this one to Petrov and Boshirov, the 'authorities will prefer to pass this off as a heroin OD or some such since they must have taken 100% control of Salisbury hospital staff by now.
That still leaves the angry arab or zionist however, so I guess they will have to try and knock him/her, so it won't be surprising if a weird accident befalls someone in or around Salisbury in the next little while.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 17 2018 0:34 utc | 40

@20 --

Posted by: reasonable | Sep 17 2018 0:40 utc | 41

@20 --

Posted by: reasonable | Sep 17 2018 0:54 utc | 42

VK @ 21:

"... Al Qaeda Goes To Hollywood"?

I haven't seen the documentary yet but I'd like to suggest a theme song.

The (revised by myself) lyrics are rather banal and repetitive so I'll just post a few lines:

"... Relax don't do it
When you want to go shoot it
Relax don't do it
When you wanna bomb
When you want to suck to it
Relax don't do it
When you wanna bomb
Bomb bomb bomb ..."


Posted by: Jen | Sep 17 2018 1:12 utc | 43

VK @ 35:

Oh dear, another Italian restaurant! ... Seems like Italian restaurants in Britain are just not serving up Italian food very well.

Jamie Oliver, wherever you are, get back to the motherland and teach them how to cook proper-like again!

Posted by: Jen | Sep 17 2018 1:15 utc | 44

@10 hopehely.. thanks for stating that.. i have gotten so tired of explaining something so obvious to anyone but a doorknob (with or without novichok on it) that i don't bother anymore..

@14 vk.. i doubt @1 does anything other then drop stupid comments in a room of mostly thoughtful people..oh, but at least they get high marks for grammar, lol.. and i agree with @16 hopehelys comments to you as well..

@23 george lane.. i think max's work is a mixed bag, some good and some bad..

@35 vk... and it's from another italian restaurant! i think the uk ought to check the italians for novichok..

Posted by: james | Sep 17 2018 1:19 utc | 46

Truthfinder @ 20:

China has been in the news lately over its supposed treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang so you may like to check out Dr Godfree Roberts' website and blog on that country.

"In Praise of China"

Godfree Roberts' blog

Blogs on Syria:

Syrian Perspective

(NB don't read if you love cockroaches and rodents :-) )

Syrian Solidarity Movement

Here's an interesting blog by Jon Hellevig on the Russian economy:

Awara Group

Happy investigating!

Posted by: Jen | Sep 17 2018 1:27 utc | 47

vk @35

Its a Porton Down employee who likes Italian food, but doesn't wash his hands.

Posted by: cdvision | Sep 17 2018 1:33 utc | 49

PS or its a non-Italian restaurant trying to gain market share?

Posted by: cdvision | Sep 17 2018 1:35 utc | 50

22 @ George Lane: Thanks! I appreciate this.

@24 Stumpy: Thank you.

@33 Pft: Thanks, but could you perhaps give a link to their website? I already had a hard time finding Godfree Roberts' blog website.

@38 & 39 reasonable: Thank you. I already know about those websites, but thanks nonetheless.

@44 Alligator: Dude, this helps a ton. Thank you!

Posted by: TruthFinder | Sep 17 2018 1:53 utc | 51

@TruthFinder 20: I highly recommend Moscow-based news outlet EurAsia Daily. The news articles are succinct and to the point, while the analysis pieces are detailed and provide the necessary historical context. There's a lot of interesting information that you won't find even in the Western alt media. However, only a tiny fraction of the articles get translated and put on the English version of the site, so you have to use the Russian version. Luckily, it's easy to do with the help of Google Translate: (To get to older articles, scroll down and use the calendar widget in the right-hand column.)

Posted by: S | Sep 17 2018 1:59 utc | 52

Freedom of Expression in the UK:
Prominent British Scientist and Critic of the Skripal Poisoning Story Arrested

[Dr. Christopher] Busby was arrested and detained under the explosives act. last week.

I'm hardly in Dr. Busby's league, but home also raided by US Feds last week - computers seized, not arrested (yet).

Kind of hope we're extradited to the same black site for 'questioning' - always wanted to meet Busby. Sounds like an interesting guy.

Posted by: Paveway IV | Sep 17 2018 2:28 utc | 53

TF @ 20

The longest running totally independent reader only sponsored news media is (but they can't go too far down the conspiracy rabbit hole otherwise would lose their well won alt-mainstream media credibility). edited by a Canadian professor doesn't fear tackling facts like the 9/11 official story is totally bogus.

But sounds like you might want to take a leap into weird alternative narratives -

Then there is the 'Q-anon' material: go to YouTube and follow 'praying medic' , or

Check out Dr Dave Janda (a highly qualified orthopaedic surgeon and US govt advisor on preventative health care for a succession presidential administrations at Operation Freedom Outpost. . In his last interview with Greg Hunter (former news talk show host at CNN who was sacked for challenging the censorship) of Janda is put on the spot by Hunter as to whether "'Q' is real or not?" Janda backs up to makes sure it is clear he is just citing his "high-level sources in Washington" to say "yes, I am informed that 'Q is real'".

In other words Q represents military intelligence officers who back Trump as a 'nationalist' faction (doesn't mean they're all goodness and light but they do seem to be for the rule of law) against the truly evil 'globalist' faction (who sponsor war, chaos, financial debt enslavement, and trades in weapons, drugs, human-trafficking and worse).

Janda also confirms that high level sources indicate the 'mass sealed indictments' (been going up by 5k per month for the 10 months that Q has been posting on 4Chan/8Chan boards) are also real. The total to end of August - established by several internet investigators looking at all judicial records in the USA - is now an unprecedented 51,701.

(Sealed indictments are used usually for taking down organised crime without tipping off the rest when making arrests - that are usually timed for simultaneous arrests, normal number for a full year in the whole USA is about 1,000).

This may explain Senator Lindsay Graham's change of attitude towards the Trump administration in recent months because McCain's death may - as Q says "he did not go on his own terms" - may have been as Ohio Governor Kasich let slip on CNN - an execution. .

According to this narrative (which I only know by following the above websites) Trump's Exec Order earlier this year to extend the US military court martial handbook to include civilians who committed high crimes like treason - comes into effect on 1 January 2019. This was elucidated in Graham's interview of Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court - it is like Graham is listing off what he's been told to. Graham's close comrade in war-mongering for decades was John McCain.

However, no need to wait for 2019 for a US navy officer senator who can be tried for treason (he did make an unauthorised trip to Syria and met the heads of al-Nusra and some say al-Bagdadi the caliph of ISIS himself - to presumably offer more money, weapons and training support:

The scene at McCain's funeral with General Mattis and General Kelly death-staring at Graham for talking with Huma Abedin (Hillary's P.A. and a former/still? Saudi national) is worth watching. Maybe people are reading more into it, but have a look at this:

Consider - Graham is a 'globalist' who has 'flipped' because Trump and the 'nationalists' are in power. Consider - the attacks on MajGen Michael Flynn who had to give up being National Security Director. But Flynn had previously as Chief of the Pentagon's DIA been interviewed on Al-Jazeera to expose the Obama administration's "wilful policy" of allowing the rise of ISIS - which was for 'globalist' rationale for destruction of Syria for pipelines/petrodollar etc.

Consider also that the news the Pentagon was pissed that the CIA was sponsoring jihadists the US military were fighting in Syria got into the MSM briefly a couple of years back. The proxy war in Syria is a multi-layered proxy war in this narrative - with US 'nationalist/DIA/marines + other military" on one side and the 'globalists/CIA/elements of military and military-industrial complex' on the other.

There is a lot of conjecture in this narrative, but the 'Q' material for those who've followed it is holding together well. I must say with a lot of scepticism for the first couple of months, but it is increasingly hard to be sceptical as the scores of 'Q-proofs' accumulate (Q posts followed within minutes by almost identical Trump tweets, photos from Air-Force 1 that seem genuine, predictions that come true). The MSM are coming down incredibly hard with what anyone who follows Q are completely inaccurate hit jobs about the 'Q conspiracy'.

Furthermore I've been searching for 9 months for a good debunking of the mass sealed indictments tally while watching it grow by 5k a month and have yet to see anything from MSM or alt. media. In fact it is mostly 'crickets' from MSM on this aspect or a very inaccurate 'nothing to see hear message'. Q says Jeff Sessions has 470 special prosecutors working with grand juries assembling evidence to take down the deep state - and the deep state must run very deep as looks by 51k sealed indictments. That means each prosecutor has assembled a handful of cases per week since last October.

A couple of nice, intelligent but somewhat geeky guys YouTube channel has more on Q:

Posted by: anoncommentator | Sep 17 2018 2:33 utc | 54

Truthfinder @ 47:

Dr Godfree Roberts' blog:

Posted by: Jen | Sep 17 2018 2:50 utc | 55

@49 paveway.. good to see you.. i hope you stay well and out of arms reach of the gulag mentality to the south of here..

Posted by: james | Sep 17 2018 3:08 utc | 56

@ paveway IV with the report of being "investigated" by the US

Sorry to read that. When they came to take away Paveway IV we all did what? Which of us is next?

I wake to pain every day so losing my life to a good cause is appealing to I keep beating my drum


The following is a link karlof1 provided to me to a video about money that all would benefit from watching, IMO

Much more articulate than I

Paveway IV, keep us informed someway if you can about your status and if we can help.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 17 2018 3:21 utc | 57

not sure what to say, when the Daily Mail refers to Bellingcat as a "trusted investigative source" Elliot Higgins can sling propaganda with the best.

Posted by: juandonjuan | Sep 17 2018 3:27 utc | 58


Graham seems slightly more well behaved since McCain left the Senate. The stare down of Graham was excellent.

I hold to the theory that the Generals backed Trump and the CIA backed Hillary. Adding to that theory I submit that it was the reason why the former regime targeted Flynn first. As head of the DIA he may have had a big role in neutralizing some of the other intelligence agencies in their election meddling. He was the most dangerous person to the former regime.

I do not hold the the mass indictments theory. With that many Grand Juries going someone would see something unless they are being held on military bases with military people on the juries. The whole system would melt down if that happened. The MSN would be all over this spinning the military dictator line, especially with the upcoming election.

If the Republicans lose Congress the Trump Russia investigations will continue for another two years along with the tiring blather from the MSM.

Posted by: dltravers | Sep 17 2018 3:46 utc | 59

So while everyone is distracted with hurricanes, typhoons, skipral, Idleb etc

Corbyn and Labour caved and accepted the IHRA definition of antisemitism. No criticism of Israel will be allowe. Similar legislation moving forward in US

EU effectively killed internet freedom, at least in Europe but soon to follow elsewhere (except China where its already killed). Copyright filters will block any comment or post deemed to be copyrighted which could also filter anything the PTB want.

Google china doing its part linking Android users numbers to each search and sharing it with the thought police

The west going on attack mode against Cyprus to protect Browder. Cyprus is cooperating with Putin on his financial dealings which all flowed through Cyprus. Lots of skeletons there that implicate many more important people than Browder

Somehow 70-80 homes in 3 towns in Massachusetts blew up or exploded due to gas in a 2 hr period. Like steel framed buildings collapsing due to fire such an event over such a wide area has never happened in peacetime. National news hardly mentioned it, and even conspiracy sites silent

Manafort agrees to cooperate with the cover up in chief himself (aka Mueller). Manafort knows stuff that could bringd down a lot of people besides Trump who want protection

One step at time down Jacobs ladder. At this rate we reach bottom soon. Global Warming will seem like a cool winter day

Posted by: Pft | Sep 17 2018 4:00 utc | 60

Paveway IV | Sep 16, 2018 10:28:05 PM | 49

Major bummer, to say the least.
Can you say, or, do you know the reason you were raided?
Scary times indeed...

Posted by: V | Sep 17 2018 4:17 utc | 61

Paveway IV @ 49:

Sorry to see the bad news. Keep us posted if and when you can. Let us know if we can help or donate in some way. Do you have back-ups or copies of the work that was on the seized computers?

Posted by: Jen | Sep 17 2018 4:23 utc | 62

Fellow barflies

I have a request from one or more of the science folk about this study

Growth rings in trees synchronize on planetary level, scientists say

The quote that I want info on
Bernabei and a team of international scientists found that the growth rings in trees from 27 species across five continents "recorded" two solar storms -- explosions on the surface of the Sun -- that occurred in the years 774 AD and 993 AD, causing radiocarbon levels to jump by as much as 20 times above the norm.

I only know enough to ask the question, what does 20 times higher radiocarbon levels mean to us non-science steeped but curious human types?

Please and thank you

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 17 2018 4:36 utc | 63


for NOT from in first line...sigh/damn

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 17 2018 4:38 utc | 64


Carbon 14 (radiocarbon) is produced by cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere and creating neutrons which convert nitrogen to carbon 14. The carbon 14 then reacts with water to form CO2 which is absorbed by plants and then eaten by animals.

At normal times the carbon 14 levels in the atmosphere, plants and animals is assumed to be stable, but in times of abnormal solar activity such levels may increase due to more cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere.

Its mainly an issue in radiocarbon dating since such events might make an object being dated appear younger than it is

Posted by: Pft | Sep 17 2018 4:54 utc | 65

@ Pft with the response to my question...thanks

But I was wanting to know more about how that number translates to potential effects on our current world of tech, etc. Is it enough to fry how much of the electronics currently employed on earth and in orbit?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 17 2018 5:14 utc | 66

Police in Busby case issue genuine "nothing to see here" statement:

Dr Busby was released from police custody at about 6pm yesterday evening.

Around the same time, Devon and Cornwall Police issued a statement explaining that no further action would be taken on the matter.

The statement said: "Police have confirmed that enquiries taking place at a property in Bideford are not being treated as criminal, but as a matter of public safety.

"Police were called at around 11.30am on Wednesday 12 September following concerns for the welfare of a woman in Bideford.

"Initial enquiries led officers to attend an address in Bridge Street, Bideford.

"Whilst at the address, some of our officers complained of feeling unwell and were immediately removed from the scene and a cordon put in place.

Emergency services on the scene at Bridge Street this afternoon
Emergency services on the scene at Bridge Street this afternoon (Image: Graham Hobbs)
"The ambulance Hazardous Area Response Team (HART) attended and treated these officers, all of whom are unharmed and have since returned to duty.

"Following searches within the property, a number of items were found which required expert analysis from specialist officers and an Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) team.

"Police have also been supported by fire and ambulance at the scene.

"Police have worked closely with partner agencies to ensure the safety of the public and the property. Enquires have now been completed at the address and it has been deemed that there is no risk to the wider public.

"A 73-year-old man was arrested under the explosives act. He has since been released and no further action will be taken in relation to this incident."

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 17 2018 5:16 utc | 67

>>>> Pft | Sep 17, 2018 12:00:07 AM | 56

Corbyn and Labour caved and accepted the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

Nah, Corbyn did not cave, it was the N.E.C which kissed Tel Aviv's arse.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 17 2018 5:18 utc | 68

@ Pft who wrote: "Its mainly an issue in radiocarbon dating since such events might make an object being dated appear younger than it is"

So it then seems like this new data from trees going back 11,500 years so far can act as a correction table for carbon dating, correct?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 17 2018 5:28 utc | 69

thanks for that. read is recommended. i never heard of that journalist before, seems like dangerous work to me!

Posted by: radiator | Sep 17 2018 7:18 utc | 70

Posted by: Pft | Sep 17, 2018 12:00:07 AM | 56

Corbyn caved and accepted the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

It looks increasingly clear that while Corbyn was often excellent as a maverick MP, as a party leader he's reached the level of his incompetence. While I think he's sincere (unlike con artists like Syriza or Sanders), he's clearly no fighter.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 17 2018 7:43 utc | 71

@TruthFinder #20
I suggest you consult PropOrNot. They maintain a pretty good list of alternative news / "Russian Propaganda" websites.

But really I would recommend doing your own research. Don't just trust any source - even this one. Be skeptical about everything and everyone, it will bring you closer to the truth.
A source for good homework exercises is EU vs Disinfo. Just pick out any topic and really, REALLY go to the bottom of it until you formed your own opinion.

Posted by: Joost | Sep 17 2018 7:47 utc | 72

Oops wrong link @68, I meant

Posted by: Joost | Sep 17 2018 7:49 utc | 73

From Wikileaks Verified Account @wikileaks

“AI culture wars: Israeli government launch video of Twitter/Facebook "Command Centre", which monitors "all posts" for "anti-semitism" with "artificial intelligence" then lodges complaints e.g with "intelligence & law enforcement" in a "certain european country" or other officials”

Posted by: Afkaysit | Sep 17 2018 8:23 utc | 74

@1 Tom Welsh

If the government / Police have outed them and they live in a country hostile to them being gay thus putting them in harms way they can all be charged under the UKs very broad "hate crime" laws. Hence the lies about having a prostitute in their room. It would be ironic if the laws the government put in place to stop criticism of it importing Takfiri terrorists to our shores under the guise of multiculturalism ends up taking them down.

Posted by: TJ | Sep 17 2018 8:31 utc | 75

Censored film reveals The Israel Project’s secret Facebook campaign

The Israel Project, a major advocacy group based in Washington, is running a secret influence campaign on Facebook.

This is revealed in The Lobby – USA, an undercover Al Jazeera documentary that has never been broadcast due to censorship by Qatar following pressure from pro-Israel organizations.

In the newest clips, David Hazony, the managing director of The Israel Project, is heard telling Al Jazeera’s undercover reporter: “There are also things that we do that are completely off the radar. We work together with a lot of other organizations.”

Posted by: Afkaysit | Sep 17 2018 9:01 utc | 76

@Paveway IV 49

I like your humorous outlook and I love your work as much as Dr Busby’s. This harassment by the two regimes is like an official dis-endorsement of your work and it is a sign that the regimes are feeling uneasy. Apparently, both Dr. Busby and you now got the first warning.

Whilst the regimes’ media trumpets are blowing odds of strength and unity, it appears that they do not feel as secure as the image they are projecting. Because one of the principal laws applying to semi- and fully totalitarian regimes is - the shakier, the more suppressive.

Posted by: Kiza | Sep 17 2018 9:08 utc | 77

Paveway IV

♫ You can checkout any time you like, ♫♪♪
♪♫ But you can never leave! ♪♫ ♫

Posted by: john | Sep 17 2018 9:56 utc | 78

Paveway IV

naughty naughty - you've been looking into stuff you shouldn't be looking into. Lost my computer a few years back. Hopefully it wont go further in your case. Scared the crap out of my wife so I stopped looking into what I was looking into and no more come of it.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 17 2018 10:02 utc | 79

Russia gets serious about MH17

Add to "The dike breaks".

Posted by: somebody | Sep 17 2018 10:03 utc | 80

A quick observation and a fascinating parallele. Serena Williams and the US global hyperpower.

Serena at 36 got bitten fair and square at US open by a girl of 20, almost half her age. So she throws up a nuclear tantrum, publicly calling the referee a thief, threatening that he will never referee again, obviously thanks to her money, power and gender.

During her post-game interview, Serena told a news conference, “I’m here, fighting for women’s rights, for women’s equality, and for all kind of stuff… it made me think that it was a sexist remark [referring to the penalty the referee Ramos awarded her].”

The declining US fights for human rights as declining Serena fights for women’s rights. Both invoke exceptionalism and higher principles and go nuclear when they cannot win any more under the established international rules. The irony of killing the Yemenis en mass whilst “fighting” for the human rights of terrorists in Syria is just like Serena fighting for women’s rights against another younger and more capable woman.

Posted by: Kiza | Sep 17 2018 12:33 utc | 81

There are thousands upon thousands of alternative voices in the cracks and easy enough to discover with a little searching (hint, search engines are entirely unnecessary) over and above the same old same old people keep regurgitation. . Even more so, read, digest and form your own opinion of which are which, in terms of reliability, original thought, hysteria, political stance, interest, narcosis, etc. Why a person would want to garner others' lists I cannot fathom. Hm.

Posted by: Plod | Sep 17 2018 13:04 utc | 82

Petrov - Boshirov. To me they were utterly convincing. Mostly because they were absolutely terrified and utterly naive about doing a TV interview and answering questions.

RT, the interviewer and setting - an office - and the number of cameras were their conditions, I have read, and I believe it. They wanted to appear in public, rather than hide (no doubt following some excellent advice, and Putin’s public assurance, saying he hoped they would come forward..) but had little idea beyond that except that they wanted to avoid being Center in a media circus - storm. (They need a PR expert and top-class lawyer.)

Why their gayness / not or what business they run legally or not-so-much and lots of other topics are invoked and puzzled over is because ppl simply cannot believe what happened here. (Imho!)

(Some weird event, possibly fabricated, organised by X, or strange happenstance, or whatever) .. sent Sergei and Yulia ‘queer — ill’, as well as DS Bailey, and later, Dawn and Charlie (All connected to some ‘event’ that remains cloudy.)

The Gvmt. *slowly* latched onto the meme ‘the Russians did it’ thru pol. opportunism (Syria etc.) and/or as a cover up for some ugly and dismaying stuff. At every step of the way, they tardily re-calibrated, ‘fixed’ the narrative to jell with that script. A good ex. is DS Bailey: he was at first affected as a first responder to the Bench Scene, but much later, that was denied, and he was poisoned because he stole comatose Sergei’s keys and went to his home where he “most likely” touched a Novichoked doornob. (Note the doornob tale leaves the door open (sic) to some mundane passers-by doing nefarious deeds.)

The investigators behind the computers acted under orders and under the imposed assumption

"Some Russian undercover(s) flew in on or around March 1,2,3, and poisoned a door in Salisbury, find a match."

After examining endless planeloads of Russian travellers to the UK, and thousands of hours of CCTV, they turned up these two… (and kept their jobs and kiddies safe! Yay! )

The only link between the pair and the Skripal ‘event’ is the stated fact that ‘minuscule traces of Novichok’ were found in the Hotel in London they stayed in. This is complete BS, see for ex. even the Daily Mail!

(see also Grieved and Debsisdead above)

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 17 2018 13:07 utc | 83

@ 78 Plod: No, I understand what you mean. You definitely have to form your own opinion when it comes to these things. Trust nobody. But at the same token, it's sometimes hard to know where to look. I've already used Google in order to search for stuff, but that's obviously going to be very LIMITING, of course. Anyway, thank you for the advice.

BTW, should I consider using the search engine DogPile? What search engines could I use? I've been using Google (and to a lesser degree, Yandex) for a while now. If anyone has any good search engines to use, I would like to know about them.

Look, I'm new to this whole thing compared to you guys. You guys have it all figured it out. That's why I was asking for your help to begin with. It's not my intention to be dependent on anyone. It's just that I'm looking for alternative news websites and alternative websites in general and I thought that this would be a good place to ask around.

Posted by: TruthFinder | Sep 17 2018 13:14 utc | 84

@ 78 Plod: No, I understand what you mean. You definitely have to form your own opinion when it comes to these things. Trust nobody. But at the same token, it's sometimes hard to know where to look. I've already used Google in order to search for stuff, but that's obviously going to be very LIMITING, of course. Anyway, thank you for the advice.

BTW, should I consider using the search engine DogPile? What search engines could I use? I've been using Google (and to a lesser degree, Yandex) for a while now. If anyone has any good search engines to use, I would like to know about them.

Look, I'm new to this whole thing compared to you guys. You guys have it all figured it out. That's why I was asking for your help to begin with. It's not my intention to be dependent on anyone. It's just that I'm looking for alternative news websites and alternative websites in general and I thought that this would be a good place to ask around.

Posted by: TruthFinder | Sep 17 2018 13:15 utc | 85

Kiza - interesting point. Yes clearly Serena retrofitted the women's movement to justify what was an old-fashioned Connors/McEnroe male tennis tantrum, although extremely mild comapred to some of the crap those two pulled back in the day.

What goes without saying is the behaviour is as repulsive when Serena does it as when McEnroe/Connors did.

Serena at 36 is no longer the dominant force just as America is no longer. However, it is fair to say the winner is where she is because she trained extensively and I believe lives in Amerikkka so really she is an example of globalism and racial diversity, if not Amerikkkan exeptionalism.

Women's tennis post Serena will not be dominated by Amerikkkans but by Amerikkkan training of the best players regardless of their origination

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 17 2018 13:21 utc | 86

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 17, 2018 9:07:22 AM | 79

They are Amway distributors. There is a "Nutriline" address at the Shell station in Wilton Road. Amway is big in Russia.

You can google yourself the information on Amway. The two were set up via Amway.

I am sure British security service know the perpetrators but cannot name them as they are "friends". So .... Russia.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 17 2018 13:28 utc | 87

I have to correct the spelling of a name that someone gave, it's Stephen Lendman, a very reliable writer and always spot on. In contrast with this, never believe Veteranstoday's Gordon Duff. He invents half of his stories (at least).

Posted by: Antares | Sep 17 2018 13:30 utc | 88

No one, not even my 95-yr-old great aunt, is "new" to this, um, Internet thingie. Thank you, my strings are not attached today. I did follow these same earlier interactions here, including the apologetics, where the same coagulation of naively helpful suggestions was proffered. In what way were those unhelpful? Even a cursory perusal of them would have turned up many further leads to follow. And no, you do not need search engines of any kind to search the i/n quickly and effectively.

Posted by: Plod | Sep 17 2018 13:32 utc | 89

somebody @ 82, thx for the tip, i thought something like that, typical.

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 17 2018 13:41 utc | 90

@donkeytail 81

For some reason I do not remember McEnroe ever trethenning the referee with losing his job or envoking the race and sex political card when throwing up a tantrum. Therefore, I find your comment to be missing my main points big time. In fact, your comment reads mostly as diversion and obfuscation in defense of Serena and US. What does the training of non-US players in US have to do with virtue signalling by Serena and US?

Finally, the key word in my comment was “nuclear” because the US is threatening the existence of everyone on the planet just as Serena is threatenning the future of women’s tennis, both by refusing to accept the reality that each cannot dominate any more. Russia is forced to be the global adult and amortise the lies and hyper-hypocritical tantrums of US and to avoid direct military confrontation at the expense of a number of dead Russians, just as Osaka had to not get distracted by the horrible behavior of her opponent and a former tennis idol.

Obviously, we are observing The US Way.

Posted by: Kiza | Sep 17 2018 14:15 utc | 91


It's clear that the Simonyan interview with Petrov and Boshirov is played as not entirely serious. There is some resemblance to a British radio comedy show from the 1960s ( The two men deny that they are gay, but put out unmistakable signals that they are.

It's clear that their business as lifestyle coaches supplying "nutritional supplements" involves supplying body-building compounds, ranging from legal nutritional supplements to illegal anabolic steroids. There is a large market for these drugs especially among gay men.

The most likely reason for their visit to Salisbury is that they were meeting someone for a business deal related to these compounds. There are many small pharma / biotech companies in Wiltshire including some in a science park at Porton Down, and also in Tomsk which has been reported to be their home city.

I think we can be certain that they have told the Russian authorities everything they know about who lured them to Salisbury for a meeting that would put them near the right place at the right time to be framed for the Skripal poisoning. It's possible that the calculation at the UK end was that they would be too frightened to come forward. This has now been circumvented by Putin's declaration that they have done "nothing especially illegal" and arranging for their TV interview. Evidently the Russian government has decided to hold back what it knows about who they were supposed to meet, and has instead put them on TV to give an obviously false story that they are two straight men who visited Salisbury as tourists while dropping hints of the true story.

Posted by: yoffa | Sep 17 2018 14:20 utc | 92


For search alternatives to google, try:

It is private in that when I clicked on a link to a YouTube vid via the search results the other day, YouTube stated that their vids can't be viewed anonymously - I had to allow tracking.

Obviously no search is anonymous as your ISP will record every page you view anyway.

Posted by: pete | Sep 17 2018 14:23 utc | 93


Seems Jim Guckert/Jeff Gannon being dispatched to London town might point to a blackmail of someone. (Guess he was a real fun and talented guy.)

Keep ol' Tony Blairwitch in line. He got a lot more heat (for obliterating Iraq) from the citizenry in the UK than Dubya Cheney ever saw in the USA.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 17 2018 14:46 utc | 94

Back a-ways, I seconded a rampant speculation as to the sexual proclivities of the Russian suspects.

But what I know about Eurasian homosexual persons would NOT fill a thimble. Do scratch that out.

Now I think they may-well-be erstwile Amway vendors in a provincial city; that would be more like it!

Were dodgy business trips to Europe a convenient cover for normally harmless amoral boys-nights-out?

Amway is an imperial device for sure; its a cult religion dressed out as private commercial enterprise.

Their wives were the loyal hardworking saleswomen. These men should have honored their sacred money!

It does NOT look good to be blowing money on floozies instead of depositing it on the altar of greed.

Now I get why their faces were endlessly sad: their venal little Amway racket had been compromised.

There's NO patriotism in an ethos of marginal profit-making, clearly, Amway is secular protestantism.

Putin the subtle magician again; what a cool blow against the colonial consumer capitalist system!

The friends looked like fools, because they are fools: a couple of yokels chasing after false wealth.

(For someone who dies not get this: prosperity is caused by industry, NOT commercial profit-making.)

Posted by: Guerrero | Sep 17 2018 14:48 utc | 95

Posted by: yoffa | Sep 17, 2018 10:20:25 AM | 87

The name of the Salisbury Amway guy is Mate Hegedus.

Hegedus is Hungarian for Fiddler just as Skripal is in Russian.

Some people use irony.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 17 2018 14:50 utc | 96

Ahh and now the page is not found.

Still archived September 18 :-)) with news from October 24, 2017">">


amway hacked?

Posted by: somebody | Sep 17 2018 14:58 utc | 97

Ok, my mistake.

It is still there. So how recent is this distributor?

Posted by: somebody | Sep 17 2018 15:01 utc | 98

Kiza @86:

Therefore, I find your comment to be missing my main points big time. In fact, your comment reads mostly as diversion and obfuscation in defense of Serena and US.

We've identified donkeytale as a troll. "Diversion and obfuscation" is his job.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 17 2018 15:01 utc | 99

@b, Re: 50

Please delete this post because one of the urls is creating havoc
on the margins.

Posted by: CarlD | Sep 17 2018 15:11 utc | 100

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