Russia Beefs Up Syria’s Air Defenses – Tells “Hotheads” To Cool Down

September 24, 2018

The Russian Minister of Defense today announced some of the measures to be taken in Syria in response to last weeks destruction of its electronic warfare plane with 15 airmen on board. Yesterday the Russian MoD held Israel responsible for the incident.

Shortly after the event happened we noted:

On Netanyahoo’s personal request Russia had stopped the delivery of original Russian S-300 long range air-defense missiles to the Syrian military. These would have been less likely to veer off towards the wrong target. In consequence an Iranian 747 was damaged and 15 Russian soldiers were killed. Netanyahoo can forget about any further such ‘favors’ from Moscow.

Yesterday we added:

The incident will have consequences on several levels. For one – the airspace along the Syrian coast will now be off limits for Israeli flights
…
The Syrian air defense will be further strengthened and modernized. Its personal will get more specialist training. But the probably worst issue for Israel’s military will be cooled down relations with the Russian forces. There will be no more freebies, no more looking aside and direct Russian fire on Israeli forces should they again try such stunts.

These predicted measures are exactly the ones Defense Minister Shoigu announced today. Syria will get the S-300, its air defense will be further updated, Syria’s coast will be more heavily defended:

MOSCOW, September 24./TASS/. Within two weeks, the Syrian army will get from Russia S-300 air-defense missiles to strengthen its combat capabilities following the downing of a Russian Ilyushin Il-20 aircraft in Syria, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Monday.

Syria ordered the S-300 systems in 2013 but Russia held back the delivery on Israel’s request. Syria also had more urgent needs, especially for short range air-defense systems, which Russia delivered in large numbers. It were these systems that allowed the Syrian air defense to disable a high number of U.S. cruise missiles fired against it in April. The S-300, with a reach of up to 250 kilometers, will be able to target Israeli planes over Lebanon as well as deep within Israeli air space.

The delivery of the S-300s via transport planes from Russia already begun. There are several sub types of the system and a number of different radar combinations to guide them. There is no information yet about the exact types Syria will be equipped with and in what numbers. The first deployment will likely be around the capital Damascus.

Shoigu also announced that Syria’s air defenses will now be equipped with Russian IFF systems:

“The command posts of Syrian air defense forces and units will be equipped with automated control systems only supplied to the Russian armed forces. This will facilitate centralized control over all forces and resources of the Syrian air defense, monitor the situation in the air, and ensure operative issuance of orders. Most importantly, we will guarantee the identification of all Russian aircrafts by the Syrian air defense systems,” Shoigu said.

Identification Friend or Foe systems are the holy grail of any air force. With IFF an air defense radar sends an secret challenge to any unidentified airplane it detects. If the code is correct, a friendly airplane will respond with an identification token. The systems use special frequencies, strong cryptography and a daily changing code that is kept ultra secret. (NATO procedures demand that two officers cooperate in any update of such codes.) Russia held back these codes from Syria to avoid them leaking to potential enemies. It is likely that Russian officers will be present at the Syrian air defense command posts to handle the issue.

Russia will also take additional electronic warfare measures to hinder potential attacks near its bases in Syria:

The third measure announced by the Russian defense ministry is a blanket of electronic countermeasures over Syrian coastline, which would “suppress satellite navigation, onboard radar systems and communications of warplanes attacking targets on Syrian territory.”

Shoigu said the measures are meant to “cool down ‘hotheads’ and prevent misjudged actions posing a risk to our service members.” He added that if such a development fails to materialize, the Russian military “would act in accordance to the situation.”

The area where these electronic measures will be applied will certainly include most of Lebanon which air space Israel used several times to attack Syria. That and the upgrades of Syria’s defenses will not be the only steps Russia will take. There will be additional political measure against Israel which are yet to be announced.

Israel knows that it can only do little against the Russian responses to its devious attack. That is why some of its lawmakers now ask for even greater U.S. involvement in Syria. The U.S. military will not be happy about that.

Posted by b on September 24, 2018 at 11:11 UTC | Permalink

Comments

@29 “I would imagine it only takes a few strokes of the keyboard and a few minutes with a screwdriver to change a non-export model into an export model.”
This works both ways, of course.
As in: it must be equally-easy to upgrade the export version to the Russian standard platform.
In which case there would be no point leaving those non-delivered S-300 in the warehouse just rusting away – may as well upgrade them and issue them to the troops.
I would doubt very much that there is any “stockpile” of ready-to-deliver S-300 systems just waiting for a Rosoboronexport salesman to clinch a sale with a sly “And just for you, special deal my friend, I’ll arrange delivery in two weeks”.
If the S-300 is delivered in two weeks then it has come from Russian field units. And I wouldn’t be surprised if those Russian troops come with the goods, at least initially.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 24 2018 23:41 utc | 101

OT–FYI–
There’s a new film out regarding (il)legal finance: Scenes From the Spider’s Web. Some will find the information provided by Hudson in his interview segment astounding and shocking, but somehow not altogether surprising.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 24 2018 23:41 utc | 102

S-400 to Syria, response to Turkey shooting down the SU-24.
S-300 to Tartus and upgrading and linking of Syrian systems to Russian command, response
to US attack threats at the time of the Aleppo offensive.
Now Russian spec S-300 spread throughout Syria as a response to latest US threats of
attack and the Israeli downing of the IL-20.
Thinking about this, fast delivery of S-300 to Syria may have been decided on even before the downing of the IL-20.
The short term deal with Erdogan giving time to get the extra S-300 systems in place before the main attack on Idlib occurs.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 24 2018 23:54 utc | 103

Hey guys, this pretty off topic, but I have a few questions that maybe someone with more knowledge than I have could briefly explain:
1) I read a rather ridiculous article on CNN the other day that posited that Hezbollah has now started to assist the Houthi’s in Yemen, how could this possibly be true and have you heard of this idea before? How can Hezbollah reach Yemen with supplies or fighters?
2) Why does Shiite leader Moqtada al-Sadr have such a close relationship with Saudi Arabia and seems very hostile to Iran? This has never made any sense to me and I’ve never heard an explanation. Also why is there a sizable faction in Iraq that is considered pro-US? After the destruction of the country, a million plus dead..etc how could anybody be pro US in Iraq, are they just people on the pay-roll?
3)Why does Syria never respond to the 100s of Israeli airstrikes by firing a missile or two back, are they just too bogged down fighting the jihadi’s or they don’t want to provoke a major Israeli bombing? Or do they have no capability to respond at this time?

Posted by: Jason | Sep 25 2018 0:22 utc | 104

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 24, 2018 9:47:13 AM | 23
Yep

Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 25 2018 0:26 utc | 105

@106 Peter AU, congrats on winning your bet btw. I would assume the RU MOD plans for many contingencies and is ready to deploy at a minutes notice. I dont think the IL20 event serves as an “excuse” to send the S300 units pre-emptively though it does contribute to defuse a potential offensive from FUKUS. Bolton is shouting this delivery is a significant escalation. As usual flip whatever a Neocon says 180 degrees and you get close to the truth..

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 25 2018 0:40 utc | 106

Lozion 110
There was sufficient cause in the recent US threats if a major Idlib offensive went ahead.
By announcing it now, not only will it make the US think twice or more before launching an attack on Syria, it is also pressing Netanyahu’s bum to the coals. Be interesting to see if Israel tries any more attacks on Syria.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2018 0:57 utc | 107

Karlof1 @ 105:
The entire documentary “The Spider’s Web: Britain’s Second Empire” by Michael Oswald is worth watching as an introduction to the corruption in the global finance industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8
And when you finish watching that – twice, three times, however many times you need for all the information to sink in – you can read Nicholas Shaxson’s excellent book “Treasure Islands:Tax Havens and the Men who Stole the World”, on which the documentary leans heavily for information and structure.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 25 2018 1:02 utc | 108

Shoigu says there will now be ” centralised control over all of Syria’s air defence facilities and capabilities, the monitoring of airspace and prompt targeting”.
In other words, Russia will be able to control who gets targeted and shot at. That might be what Israel wants. Russia ensures its planes don’t get shot down and in return Israel knows their friend Russia has assumed centralized control over air defenses and they no longer have to worry about independently controlled Syrian missiles
That explains how quickly Russia was able to act and “suggests” perhaps a false flag forcing Syria to cede more control of its air defences to Russia ? It also explains why Russia is not worried about Israelis reponse to them giving Syria S300 since they will control targetting and can override Syrian operators.
Not married to this hypothesis , just throwing it out there

Posted by: Pft | Sep 25 2018 1:07 utc | 109

reply to:
“If the S-300 is delivered in two weeks then it has come from Russian field units. And I wouldn’t be surprised if those Russian troops come with the goods, at least initially.”
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 24, 2018 7:41:32 PM | 104
I suspect the s300s were already in Syria for sometime, I base that on what Assad and one of the Russians said some time ago.
I believe what has just arrived in Syria is something else. The s-400 has a suite of optional equipment; it is basically a s-300 with lots of upgrades. What has arrived in my opinion are souped up s-300s aka s-400s which will be immediately integrated into the Russian/Syrian defense system. Go Team Russia:)

Posted by: frances | Sep 25 2018 1:08 utc | 110

All lies and deception.
Slowly, you will all have to admit that the Americans, the Jews and the Russians are collaborating instead of fighting with each other.
If the Syrians get any kind of S-300s, it will be older, “detuned” versions with Israeli IFFs on them. The Israelis examined the S-300s on the island of Crete at length and developed countermeasures against them anyway. Ironically, the older S-200s are more difficult to evade for the Israelis as they are less familiar with the simpler-but-harder to defeat guidance systems installed on them.
As you will come around to see,
The Russian government is Jewish owned and controlled. Putin was chosen to succeed Yeltsin because Putin is a Zionist “cipher” according to the recently released documents by the Bill Clinton Presidential Library: http://johnhelmer.net/the-love-that-dare-not-speak-its-name-the-secret-in-the-clinton-yeltsin-papers-which-the-kremlin-spokesman-regrets-to-see-exposed-is-the-love-of-submission/
Posted by: USA=ISIS | Sep 24, 2018 5:48:56 PM | 90

Actually it would make little sense for Greece to let Israel access one vital air defence system against Turkey, since it stoped trusting much the US since after the incident a crashed Turkish jet in the Aegean they rescued one pilot from the two, later being identified as an Israeli pilot. (two sited phantom jet) That happened in 1995 but it was kept under wraps since. (One other time they fished out a Pakistani one posing as a Turkish pilot) It would make less sense if someone considers that Greece has acquired in fact several Russian systems for different uses and purposes, some of them vital for the defence, as did Cyprus. Why give secrets of a system to an circumstantial ally that is still cooperating with Turkey (In Syria, Idlib, terrorist orgs) also risking continutation of the Syrian war, suffering from the refugee crisis since Turkey every now and then forces thousands of them across the Aegean, and these people are baned from entering Europe and have to remain in Greece?
The S-300 systems that Greece bought, were bought actully from Cyprus (the rumor has it that Israel vehemently opposed its installation and pushed Turkey to react against it, since they feared this S-300 would negate its ballistic launch capabilities) were initially delivered to Cyprus from Russia in 1997. It is actually the pre 1997 system and was never unpacked from Cyrpus army. It was delivered under Russian supervision and later unpacked in 2004. The system has Russian operators it won’t work in other way.

Posted by: Greece | Sep 25 2018 1:15 utc | 111

@114 Frances. One possibility is that the Russians will ship in more S-400 for their own use, thereby allowing them to hand over existing S-300 installations to the Syrian Army.
That would allow for the “two week delivery” to the Syrians, since all they need to do is take the keys and drive the units out of the Russian base.
Note that if this is how the Russians do it then the Syrian S-300 will definitely be the non-export version.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 25 2018 1:24 utc | 112

reply to:
“That would allow for the “two week delivery” to the Syrians, since all they need to do is take the keys and drive the units out of the Russian base.
Note that if this is how the Russians do it then the Syrian S-300 will definitely be the non-export version.”
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 24, 2018 9:24:03 PM | 116
You could be right re the systems, I do think the “two weeks” statement is the time frame in which the system will be live, not when they will be delivered.
Russia has no reason to trust Israel whatsoever, any time line would be misleading IMO.

Posted by: frances | Sep 25 2018 1:45 utc | 113

karlof1 | Sep 24, 2018 11:50:10 AM | 55
It would be wise for the SAA to totally clear the south eastern desert. There remains a major challenge in the euphrates theatre and might follow.
In Idlib with the ‘agreement’ in place: Erdogan is now stuck with the scumbags it fully encouraged and allowed transit through turkey. That is fine PLUS his enforcing army will be shadowed by Russian forces probably ‘to keep him honest’ or perhaps ‘to keep your enemies close’. Whichever the case it is likely Turkish blood that be splattered in Idlib to keep the thugs in the cauldron. No way is russia inclined to let those thugs come his way that’s for sure. SAA meanwhile may be able to roam and repair elsewhere.
Erdogan needs to get the road corridor open through Syria to Jordan to increase trade for his rural rump supporters and has given up on the sunni loonies as his corridor managers. He has to deal with Assad but via Putin. Turkey is bust and Erdogan needs every export coin he can pocket. Erdy is stuck and he knows it but it won’t stop him screwing up anything in sight unless a russian gorilla is standing on his toes.
The S-300 delivery is a dramatic game changer and has given Syria, (Lebanon), Iran and Turkey a western shield that they could not have dreamed of a week ago prior to the IL-20 killing. However I suspect there has also been a game change in Russia and Putin has been forced to concede his dalliance with Israel as a failed maneuver, he has been cuckolded by Nuttyyahoo and the russian military insulted.
Perhaps this has resulted in a dramatic consolidation of power toward Sergei Shoigu? I am astounded by the diplomatic parrying by Putin and Lavrov and have the utmost respect for their game. I sense it has merged into a good cop/bad cop moment just now. Perhaps Putin is preparing his succession?
The yankees and their micron and hay poodles in will be apoplectic as instructed by the Nuttyyahoo.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 25 2018 1:57 utc | 114

@105 karlof1 and #112 Jen
Oh, this looks tasty – thank you both for the double endorsement. Bookmarked for a later time.
And now back to beating up on trolls!

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 25 2018 2:31 utc | 115

@118 uncle tungsten
Speaking from a place of tremendous respect for your views, I have to counter your thought that maybe Putin is being manipulated by internal Russian forces in any way.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the sense of a, shall we call it, “dialog” between Putin and Shoigu. This was always western conjecture, based on the surface reading of Putin’s seemingly calming words and Shoigu’s seemingly blunt words.
In truth I find no difference between the words. With the Russians, it’s like law school – you have to read every word, and punctuation matters. So Putin says it’s a series of tragic mistakes, and backs the situation away from nations at war. Shoigu says the mistakes are either at the command level or with the hotheads below the command level, but either way it’s systemic with Israel, so the way to prevent tragic mistakes is to change the systemic environment.
I find the combination of words flawless, seamless and dispassionately brilliant.
Of course, I’m a Putin fan. But it’s only because I see him and his team act in such breathtakingly precise ways, just as we’re seeing now.
Bottom line, I don’t see a rift inside Russia. I see complete unanimity, one pure Russian heart beating without waver.
Martyanov’s latest piece, a self-described “rant” that deals with the western habit of projecting western thought patterns onto Russian thought, will go a long way, I hope, towards reinforcing my point here: Fast Thoughts On The Issue Of Projection (and Learning). A Bit of a Rant.
And thanks to james @93 for the link.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 25 2018 2:56 utc | 116

@ Peter AU 1 – high five! I’m glad you were right. Russia suddenly changed their decades long MO and it will be better for every (decent) human being 🙂
@ Arioch | 53

What I wonder, if there would be a reason for Damascus to roll some of “their” S-300 units into Lebanon.

Never going to happen, any delivery of such equipment comes with a end-user State guarantee it wont be given/sold to any 3rd party, unless manufacturer agrees. Plus there is no one “to give to” in Lebanon. Their government and army are in US/Saudi pocket, and Hezb is non-state entity.
@ Yeah, Right | 116

Note that if this is how the Russians do it then the Syrian S-300 will definitely be the non-export version.

Shoigu mentioned S-300s delivered to Syria will have the max range of 250km, while max for export versions I have seen is 200km, so yes – it seems Syria will be getting full version, likely S-300PM2.
Its likely it wont be full “handover” for now, but rather Russians will operate them, maybe its one of the reasons why they didnt mind non-export version, as well as highly advanced C&C center with IFF and satellite/jets jamming system.

Posted by: Harry | Sep 25 2018 3:17 utc | 117

the US may be testing things before all the new great russian gadgetry gets into place
with a photo at the link, btw – perhaps something put out the MoD of russia but neither side has confirmed anything like this happening…. keeping it quiet I would imagine
https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-su-35-allegedly-intercepts-us-f-22-raptor-over-syria/
EIRUT, LEBANON (5:30 P.M.) – A Russian Su-35S fighter jet reportedly intercepted a U.S. F-22 Raptor combat aircraft over Syria, the Defence-Blog.com reported today.
The Defence Blog’s report cited an Instagram photo from an unofficial Russian pilot, today; it showed the moment the F-22 Raptor was allegedly intercepted by the Russian Su-35S.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 25 2018 3:18 utc | 118

@ michaelj72 with the link to potential testing of Syrian airspace in the period until the new defense systems are operational.
I expect that next couple of weeks to be more risk heavy than who knows when. As long as we make it through w/o nukes galore the sides should be ready for serious negotiation or on to economic war with sides drawn…what a waste to contemplate….sigh
I hope all these fly-persons are wearing their Depends during this time….pilots and crew, the new cannon fodder pawns of non-nuke warfare.
We keep coming closer to an end game here I believe. And it is not years out but weeks or months given the pace of events lately. Some, as yet to be manufactured event, will bring the sides to a confrontation leading to nukes or capitulation….I hope for capitulation by the private finance folk so society can evolve into some sort of meritocracy.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2018 3:43 utc | 119

@ michaelj72 | 122
This Su-35S intercepting F-22 happened last year, and Russian pilot got slammed for not keeping his mouth shut 🙂 Russia doesnt want make it too public US stealth fighters arent that stealthy, and can be easily tracked and targeted, such info is confidential.
Actually it was more than intercepting, pilots went into improvised air battle (stopping short of launching missiles) and Su-35 won by getting F-22 in cross-hairs.

Posted by: Harry | Sep 25 2018 3:51 utc | 120

I read a report a day or two back that Syrian forces were moving to the southern desert from Idlib. If that is correct, there may be an offensive to clear the area around the US terrorist base when the S-300’s are in position.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2018 4:01 utc | 121

@ Peter AU 1 |125
Since Idlib offensive was postponed, SAA is moving to clear ISIS in the desert, heavy casualties on both sides.
I doubt SAA will attack Tanf, S-300 or not, if anything Syria is avoiding giving any excuse for US “to defend themselves.” Tanf will be returned after Russia makes a deal with US, otherwise if it takes forever, Syria might organize something, resistance style 🙂

Posted by: Harry | Sep 25 2018 4:07 utc | 122

While we’re all waiting for the US Congress midterm elections to come and go, so that the Idlib offensive can begin, we may as well remind ourselves of the kinds of rodents currently ensconced in Idlib province at present.
They’ve got a “Made in China” stamp on them but it’s not the kind of “Made in China” stamp that Beijing is proud of.
’10-20 thousand of Chinese Uyghur jihadists settled by Turkey in Syria’
https://news.sol.org.tr/10-20-thousand-chinese-uyghur-jihadists-settled-turkey-syria-172281

Posted by: Jen | Sep 25 2018 4:50 utc | 123

>>>>: karlof1 | Sep 24, 2018 6:35:12 PM | 94
The Manchester Arena suicide bombing was the result of a previous British Conservative government resettling salafist members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group as refugees in the UK, the consequences of settling the Syrian Jihadist Civil Defence could well be similar although I doubt that’ll bother typical Conservative morons like Sajid Javid, Jeremy Hunt, Penny Mordaunt, etc . because, hopefully, they’ll soon be gone from office.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 25 2018 5:14 utc | 124

Why do i smell a false flag coming soon on CNN MSM!!

Posted by: AG17 | Sep 25 2018 5:35 utc | 125

@96 karlof1 / @100 debs.. thanks.. point taken..
@106 peter au… kudos on your s-300 call, and i think your last paragraph is likely accurate as well..
@118 uncle tungsten… ditto grieved comments to you @120… i like your posts and insights, but i do see the issue in russia more as grieved does on this topic you bring up…
@127 jen.. yeah, i think this is why some thought china would get more involved in the syrian theatre too.. turkey is going to have to walk back a lot of what they have been responsible for to date.. they took a wrong fork in the road and i am curious to know how it comes back at them.. i am surprised china isn’t more involved at this point.. i wonder if they are ever going to get involved directly?

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2018 6:16 utc | 126

Russia will not deliver the S-300 to Syria, that’s why the two week deadline was given.
Putin just wants an apology that he can wave to the Russian public so they can calm down a little bit, then he will reign in his crazy generals. Russia is a cuckolded nation and the owners all live in Israel.

Posted by: Realistic | Sep 25 2018 6:20 utc | 127

@ Realistic who wrote: “Russia is a cuckolded nation and the owners all live in Israel.
”
LOL! Pathetic combination of lying words with a racist feint, how quaint.
Troll excrement is telling of the insecurity of empire and we are seeing more and more of it.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25 2018 6:46 utc | 128

“The Russian Minister of Defense today announced some of the measures to be taken in Syria in response to last weeks destruction of its electronic warfare plane….”
Il-20 is ELINT equipped not EW aircraft.

Posted by: partizan | Sep 25 2018 7:51 utc | 129

S-300PMU-3 is same as S-400

Posted by: partizan | Sep 25 2018 8:02 utc | 130

@ USA=ISIS | 133
Greece’s S-300 is more than 20 years old, since then Russia had multiple revisions. We can only speculate if Israel has anything under the sleeve against the latest S-300, we’ll know soon if Syria’s will be used against IAF. For some minor Israel’s raid Syria might not even activate S-300, keep it for events which do matter.
The fact that Israel and US are so vehemently against S-300 delivery to Syria and Iran shows that these systems might be pretty good.

Posted by: Harry | Sep 25 2018 8:11 utc | 131

Haha as many of us thought, Russia take one big step back on S300!

Moscow’s decision to supply an S-300 air-defense system to the Syrian military is “adequate in the current situation and is, in the first place, aimed at preventing any potential threat to the lives of Russian servicemen” in the country, Russian President Vladimir Putin told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by telephone.

https://www.rt.com/newsline/439250-s300-syria-putin-netanyahu/

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 25 2018 8:27 utc | 132

@psychohistorian #123,
My very thoughts too.
–
Vis al-Tanaf – does it make any sense to simply lay minefields around the US exclusion zone? After all, if the US won’t allow anyone in, then why should the terrorists be allowed out? Red lines can work both ways, no? A prison of their choosing with only one exit…
In other news, the EU has just launched a Special Purpose Vehicle for trade with I-ran. Too little, too late?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/iran-major-powers-labor-to-keep-nuclear-deal-afloat/

Posted by: et Al | Sep 25 2018 8:31 utc | 133

re #94 karlof1
The Trudeau regime is settling several hundred of these nice AQ head-chopping folks in Canada, but unlike the UK, since the initial announcement, nary a peep in the Canadian press can be found as to how they’re making out…

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 25 2018 8:36 utc | 134

…the target they [IAF] were hoping to get a second crack at was Assad as he was at that location as he was scheduled to fly to Russia.
@frances #64
Is there some published information on that Assad’s location (which exactly? civilian airport?) and plans?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One thing I learned from the full report published by “Sputnik” is that the Russians had previously removed 24 anti-air missile units from the Golan heights …. any more for a link?
@stonebird #65
Easy! Check the first link in this very MoA article! – it is the link to Official Russian MoD site, where official transcript of their briefing is published.
That briefing – VERY untypically for RuMoD – in half consists of listing Russian firendly deeds toward Israel. And that episode is listed there.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 9:11 utc | 135

preliminary reports are saying that Russia will supply Syria with two regiments (or divisions) of S-300. a one regiment may have four to six batteries depending on configuration.
but this is not static situation: “Deliveries will start from two to four, and then, if necessary, this amount can be brought to six or eight.”
as for electronic countermeasure system they will use Krasukha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_(electronic_warfare_system) which is already there.

Posted by: partizan | Sep 25 2018 9:13 utc | 136

Vladimir Putin has had the strongest possible bonds of affection with individual Jews, Jews as a “people,” Israel as the Christian Holy Land, and Israel as a nation, since he was 13–when an idealistic Jewish Judo master named, Anatoly Rakhlin, age 27, took a lost, angry, aimless, pint-sized, fight-anyone-any-size-anytime,totally “deplorable” street kid, and turned him into the 8th-degree black-belt President of Russia in a real-life version of The Karate Kid. That’s where Putin is coming from. Go to Google Images for Rakhlin and follow the links. These bonds of affection are real and strong and deep and sometimes cost Russia and her real allies dearly, as in his disastrous decision to withhold S-300 batteries from Syria. His generals see this all too clearly. Read his bio. He’s his mother. He forgives Israel the way his mother forgave the Nazis–though they killed her mother and one brother, crippled her husband for life, and starved her infant son, Viktor,to death during the horrific siege of Leningrad (back now to its original name, St. Petersburg), where 1.5 million Russians died–more than anywhere else on the planet. And Maria Ivanovna Putina came so close to dying of starvation herself that at one point she was thrown on a corpse pile to be plowed into a trench when someone chanced along when by chance she moaned. And yet she forgave the Nazis everything. Just as Putin forgives the Israelis everything too. But he does love Russia far more. His generals are in revolt. And Israel has clearly,knowingly murdered Russians. So perhaps this time he will stand with Russia and her military in the defense of her true allies–like Iran and Syria.

Posted by: Dr. Bill Wedin | Sep 25 2018 9:26 utc | 137

The US so called “exclusion zone” may well be cleared in the coming weeks. Headchoppers will not be in the US compound which would not be attacked. Putin has put the izzies butts on the fire with the S-300’s into Syria, but the Russian executive has been making noises about both freeing the refugee camp there and US protecting ISIS in both the exclusion zone and the camp.
Trump’s zionist executive and appointees will take this hard.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2018 9:34 utc | 138

More facts for those that think Russia will act against Israel’s attacks or that Syria could use S300 against Israel.
BREAKING: “Moscow Denies S-300 Deliveries Directed Against Israel”
Ermakov reiterated Peskov’s statement that the supplies of the advanced systems to Syria were not directed at Israel, stressing that the country was Russia’s partner.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809251068307179-russia-s-300-systems/

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 25 2018 10:08 utc | 139

Blow back on the US-
Erdogan Has Ordered Turkish “Operations” Against Political Enemies On US Soil

Posted by: TJ | Sep 25 2018 10:34 utc | 140

@Zanon $147
Perfectly normal response.
You hardly expect him to say- Yes, it is against those Israeli “^$£*$£*(&), Israeli %^£%£9
etc. etc.
It is a defense system, to be used against anyone who attacks. Israel is a partner and is not expected to attack.
What I am curious to know is why Israel did it and what they hoped to gain from it. It looks like a planned maneuver.

Posted by: jiri | Sep 25 2018 10:52 utc | 141

“What I am curious to know is why Israel did it and what they hoped to gain from it. It looks like a planned maneuver.”
it did not and we have not seen one piece of evidence of it. the russians use a fake news just like amerikanas. the settler-state is some kind of joker-card whenever suit some party’s interest in conflict. one should be an idiot (which majority of people are) to believe anything in this propaganda so-called news.

Posted by: partizan | Sep 25 2018 11:20 utc | 142

James @ 130:
I understand the Chinese military have already expressed willingness to fight with the SAA in the upcoming Idlib offensive.
Whitney Webb, “China May Join Government of Syria in Idlib Offensive Against US-backed Rebels”
https://www.mintpressnews.com/china-may-join-gov-of-syria-in-idlib-offensive-against-us-backed-rebels/247098/
Although there are also other websites that say China will not participate in the Idlib offensive so at present I am not sure what China will actually do.
Leith Aboufadel, “Chinese military will not deploy to Syria for Idlib offensive – envoy”
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/chinese-military-will-not-deploy-to-syria-for-idlib-offensive-envoy/

Posted by: Jen | Sep 25 2018 11:41 utc | 143

@Zanon #147
That is the western game called “plausible deniability”.
The day IL-20 was downed I said Russia now has a bulletproof pretext to give Syria S-300 loudly claiming Russia’s only goal is safety of Russian pilot threatened by inept SAA AD crews who can not deal with complexities of ancient primitive systems like S-200. Few days later Russian diplomats said Russia will supply S-300 to Syria and it WILL NOT harm diplomatic relations with Israel.
Now Russia adds that those supplies “are not directed at Israel”.
Absolute truth!
They are directed at safety of Russian personnel when Syrian shoot AD missiles.
Now they would shoot them in new ways safer for RuAF.
It is not directed at Israel, absolutely not.
But if some chain of tragic accidents happen, we would definitely express our most sincere condolences to IAF collaterials.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 12:11 utc | 144

…there was something occurring in the Idlib area that caused the Israelis to panic and want to get that
plane out of the air in spite of the repercussions.
@juliania #82
Hardly so.
Apart of “this big thing” merely existing, this scenario would have two more questions to answer.
1) Was the event still happening or already completed when IL-20 departed form Idlib and flew to the western Syrian shore for landing ?
2) Assuming IL-20 really “filmed” something damning, how it was expecting to conway the intel to Russian HQ?
2a) IL-20 had some radio-channel and was transmitting all the data as it was acquiring it while in air
2b) IL-20 used somethign old-school, like magnetic tapes and photo-films, so needed landing for moving the media to HQ
In 2a case shooting down of IL-20 was useless to Israel, as the data already was uploaded to RuAF servers.
In 2b case it is hard to see why IL-20 went landing in so strange long route, instead of landing the shortest fastest way as soon as some damned evidence was filmed.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 12:30 utc | 145

jiri
Indeed, not surprising by Russia, this of course mean that Israel will keep bombing Syria and those S300 will not be used as some people claimed only yesterday. The communcation between Russia/Israel will be more stronger so russians wont be hurt in future attacks – only syrians.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 25 2018 12:33 utc | 146

psychohistorian | Sep 24, 2018 11:43:23 PM | 123 “I hope for capitulation by the private finance folk so society can evolve into some sort of meritocracy.”
Unfortunately, the Cheney/Greenspan/Kagan kind does not capitulate voluntarily. They are the impulsive leeches and born traitors. The deficit of decency shows in their progeny as well — see the disgusting youngsters from the Cheney, Bush, and Blair clans. All of them openly enjoy the ill-gotten wealth that is soaked in the blood of the innocent. All of them are subhuman deformities morality-wise.

Posted by: Anya | Sep 25 2018 13:13 utc | 147

153 “loudly claiming Russia’s only goal is safety of Russian pilot threatened by inept SAA AD crews who can not deal with complexities of ancient primitive systems like S-200.”
When did Russia claim this. Smoothie wants to put it across that Syrian air defense is separate autonomous to Russian air defense in Syria. Russia controls the Show in Syria. It wouldn’t be there otherwise. All military action in Syria is dependent on Russian geo-political moves. In 2017, Russian air force 2IC stated that all Syrian radars were linked into the Russian control center. The 2IC of Russian air defenses in Syria stated Syrian air defense cannot launch against Russian plans.
It is the Russian control at Latakia airbase that identify and designate all targets.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2018 13:32 utc | 148

> The poster called Arioch has been exposed as hasbara troll in smoothie’s website by commenters
Any quotes, links? Even a single one?
None, as always.
“Exposed”here means one obsessed guy goes name-calling, just like here, and then 4 his virtual clones never posted on Smoothie upvote his insult. So, yeah, if you are into this kind of “expose” – definitely go ( into some unknown direction ) and read that pile of kindergarten “investigations”.
> i think it is wise to read what the Arioch posted here with a truckload of salt.
…and any wrong in my comments? Quotes from me? Counterclaims? Even a single one?
None, as always.
> I noticed his habit of posting multiple post when he can just combine into single post.
And this is the only “proof” I am misbehaving.
Well, it is just more easy to do, twice more easy to do on MoA which has that “session expired” problem, and more easy to track the discussion arguments when one my response is targeted to one specific comment above.
If that is inconvenient for my stalkers I could not care less.
> as the exposer said hasbara trolls are paid by post count.
So, the “exposer” is the hasbara insider knowing their internal rules.
Q.E.D.
@milomilo #109
I guess it is just another nickname of the stalking person, who is so shy he can not link to his majestic expose of my poor self.
But I will help you, if someone really wants to take few lessons from him, here is the beginning of me being routinely exposed:
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/httpsmoothiex12blogspotcom/reminiscence_of_the_future_helsinki_the_16th

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 13:33 utc | 149

@157 morongobill – “…harder to find a few kernels”
True. But when you weed out all the chaff and flares of battle here, you find, what, maybe 40 decent comments with information and perspective?
That’s a remarkably settled discussion. And it speaks of a remarkably settled situation.
If this were one of those situations with much uncertainty, information still coming in, fog of war everywhere and competing theories as to what’s really going on, we’d have many more substantial comments here, each offering some nugget, and the trolls would be held somewhat at bay simply by the authentic activity.
What we’re seeing instead is a peaceful thread, one of the rare ones. The decisive blow just struck in the theater has carried all doubts before it, and calmed many fears.
~~
Only the quislings, dupes and agents scurry about with their poison, hoping someone will buy it from them, while most of us let them bear it alone, and I wish more would leave them alone, to talk to each other in their poor misery.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 25 2018 13:51 utc | 150

One more update from Russia’s MOD: S-300 might also be used against unprovoked US attacks. Neocons might be stupid enough to test it.

Posted by: Harry | Sep 25 2018 13:58 utc | 151

Russia’s reaction to the “suspicious” downing of the IL- 20 has been very keen. It is , as demonstrated by poster FB on unz, very unlikely that the Syrian sa-200 missile had anything to do with it, science and maths disprove it, or we are spoon fed a heap of crapola. I suppose Russia has its reasons to act as it does, I cannot read Prez V. Putins mind , but he is a skillful player, and is known for doing what nobody expects.
He will get the concessions from Israel, that his military wants, Zionist meddling is all but over, I think. I suppose Israel was given a direct warning. I further do not think the US is prepared to back Israel on this, A WW3 is not a positive outcome for the US Oligarchs. Especially as China is slowly getting rather angry.
I think the petro dollar is in dire straits now, and the risk of it being dropped big time is a clear and present danger to the US and US economy. It would completely bankrupt the US overnight, indeed the world economy would take a major hit, but the US would be fatally wingshot, spiralling into chaos, civil unreest and possibly dissolution as a united state.
Israel is no threat, although nuclear armed it could be made completely inhabitable by 3 500 kiloton warheads, it could even be destroyed by Hezbollahs conventionally armed rockets, if targeting was properly done. Israel is like Denmark, small completely insignificant, no strategic depth. But Denmark has no intentions of conquering territory from anyone. But the Zionists do.
I predict that when the US fails to cling to its hegemony, the apartheid Zionist Settler sate will go down too, and if moderates in Israel persist we will see the state of Palestine in the UN, preferably a UN where the US has lost its security council seat, and the UN is relocated to Switzerland. Or unified Korea.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Sep 25 2018 14:04 utc | 152

James @130, Jen @152:
The Chinese are NOT showing up to the fight in Idlib. First, they don’t have the logistics settled to conduct prolonged missions in far away places such as Syria. Their African base is a start but not sufficient. Second, getting involved in Idlib would escalate tensions with the US which will complicate their discussions on settling the trade war. I feel China is still trying to recruit Turkey and Saudi Arabia to switch sides; joining in the fight would drive them back to Washington. Third, the Chinese don’t see the Syrian War as a problem to them, and it’s difficult to get their own population worked up to fight in far away places. Lastly, there is the continued meddling in Taiwan and North Korea by the US, which Beijing sees as a threat. I have a feeling Beijing is expecting a big fight regarding Taiwan which is much more important to them. Sending forces to some far away places will unnecessarily drain their coffers and blood.

Posted by: Ian | Sep 25 2018 14:08 utc | 153

Harry @164
Yeah, it’s not difficult to imagine that the S-300’s will eventually form a ‘no-fly’ zone covering all of Syria.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 25 2018 14:14 utc | 154

Peter AU 1 @160
Russia announced integration with Syrian air defense in the last few days. Measures like giving Syria IFF and what looks like real-time links for a true integrated air defense.
AFAICT, the situation before this was essentially coordination, not integration, with shared into and rules of engagement.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 25 2018 14:22 utc | 155

Jackrabbit 168 “Russia announced integration with Syrian air defense in the last few days.”
August 2017
http://tass.com/defense/962057
“KUBINKA /Moscow region/, August 25. /TASS/. A unified air defense system has been set up in Syria thanks to efforts of Russian and Syrian military experts, Chief of Staff and Deputy Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces Major-General Sergey Meshcheryakov told a round table dedicated to the Syrian experience at the Army-2017 International Military-Technical Forum.
“Today, a unified integrated air defense system has been set up in Syria. We have ensured the information and technical interlinkage of the Russian and Syrian air reconnaissance systems. All information on the situation in the air comes from Syrian radar stations to the control points of the Russian force grouping,” he said.”
September 2018
http://tass.com/defense/1020544
“DAMASCUS, September 7. /TASS/. Russia is helping Syria restore and modernized its air defense system, Russia’s Ambassador to that country, Alexander Kinshchak, told TASS on Friday.
“We are helping our Syrian partners to restore, modernize and boost the efficiency of the integrated air defense system,” he said when asked how well Syria is protected against possible airstrikes by Western nations.”

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2018 14:47 utc | 156

This is for those who think that nothing has changed, that Putin is still in charge of relations with Israel and that the Russian military wouldn’t dare shoot down an IAF plane. Quite the opposite, no conciliatory words just rapid moves so they are in position to activate a revenge pounce.
Incidently the Israeli security cabinet voted this morning to continue with their attacks on Iranians in Syria so we can expect fireworks.
Another good article from John Helmer this time on how Putin’s initial soft response to Israel was overturned by the military last weekend. This is the start of it the rest is on his web site. I won’t put the whole link in as I am not sure how not to screw up the thread formatting so johnhelmer dot org/?p=17939#more-17939
Last week President Vladimir Putin triggered the most serious crisis of his presidency, as the Defence Ministry and the Russian General Staff (Stavka) declared that Putin’s explanation for the downing of the Ilyushin-20 electronic reconnaissance aircraft by Israeli fighters was false, and worse –capitulation to Israel.
Sources in Moscow report the military’s loss of confidence in the Commander-in-Chief has not been seen in public since President Boris Yeltsin countermanded orders for Russian military aid to Serbia under NATO bombing between March and June 1999, dismissing Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov on the US demand.
“[Putin] has blundered with Erdogan, with Netanyahu,” commented one Moscow source. “In making all his concessions, one after another, Putin has been watched very carefully. His civilian advisors – [Foreign Policy Advisor Yury] Ushakov in particular – are making mistakes. They expect[ed] the show of strength in Syria would have changed US and European attitudes, and they would listen. They didn’t. So the Russian military have reminded Putin – we told you so.”
On Monday morning, following an unprecedented Sunday briefing at the Defence Ministry, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu announced measures which Putin has repeatedly dismissed over many years. The new Russian war policy puts a stop to Putin’s assurances to the US, the European NATO powers and Israel that he was resisting the recommendations of his General Staff. Putin’s resistance ended on Monday morning. Shoigu and the Stavka ended it.

Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 25 2018 14:49 utc | 157

Briefly listened to Trump’s speech at the UN. He’s gone full Zio. Midterms is going to be interesting.

Posted by: Ian | Sep 25 2018 15:00 utc | 158

Trump is presently at the U.N. vomiting all the American foreign policy propaganda imaginable. The hubris he’s delivering is off the charts. Disgusting doesn’t begin to cover how deceptive and slimy his zionist-authored rhetoric is. He’s a sad, pathetic mouthpiece for his masters in Israel.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 25 2018 15:01 utc | 159

@Peter AU 1 #162
Look, it is perfectly ok to disagree with the THINGS I said and to dispute those things with the THINGS you say.
Afterall one of the reasons we are talking here in MoA and other forums is exactly to avoid cooking ourselves in our own personal echo chambers.
It is another thing when it goes into mere names calling.
However I admit there can be persons who emotionally dislike things I say and who would take the easy way to just trust that milomilo – just the way MSM instills “everyone say Putin did it” common “wisdom”.
So, for those 3rd party readers I provide the factual evidence behind me being “hasbara paid employee” claim, so they just can come and see. I am not hiding my words and claims.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 15:09 utc | 160

I see how the topic of Russia bitchslapping Israel would stir the Zionist hornets’ nest of hasbara militant bloggers and they are here in force, but don’t be deceived, there is at least one who might have two monikers, one that lets you know here he’s a shameless Zionist and the other the better to fool you every other thread pretending he’s not a Zionist so he can steer the narrative on the sly a bit at a time.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 25 2018 15:21 utc | 161

@Peter AU 1 #160
Arioch “said Russia now has a bulletproof pretext to give Syria S-300 loudly claiming Russia’s only goal is safety of Russian pilot threatened by inept SAA AD crews who can not deal with complexities of ancient primitive systems like S-200.”
> When did Russia claim this.
First, those were MY words, not ones of Shoigu or Putin or Lavrov or any other RF official.
Second, I said Russia “has a pretext”, got the ability. It does not mean Russia is obliged to immediately “cash” it.
Third, I see the claims I mentioned in my #153 comment as playing that exactly card. Of course not that explicit and blunt way that I coined in my comments – but I am not doing diplomacy for Russia, obviously.
> Smoothie wants to put it across that Syrian air defense is separate autonomous to Russian air defense in Syria.
It is always so to an extend. Generals do no control every step and breath of every grunt.
In the end we can only guess to which extents SAA AD is controlled and autonomous.
Compare: Russian MoD statements explicitly lists three possibilities, about Israel high command “having no appreciation” or failing to control their “commanding officers” or failing to control their “commands”. See, RuMoD officially admits that some autonomy (significant enough that it could effect the development of the tragedy) exists within ranks of a single military body – Israeli Air Forces.
Of course in between SAA and Russian expeditionary forces there can be even more gap, more autonomy.
Remember the video where IAF destroys Pantsir-S1 and where reckless incompetent behavior of Pantsir crew is seen. Was that cree of SAA (as said by IAF and not disputed) or of Russian Army? Anyway their behavior in that very moment was hardly ordered from top brass but pretty autonomous.
> Russia controls the Show in Syria.
With wide brushes. Russia does not control every flying bullet though.
> It wouldn’t be there otherwise.
I agree, that one of the reasons Russia stepped in only as late as September 2015 – among other many reasons – could be to lower hubris of Syrian and Iranian “generals”. Russia came in the moment it could say “Hey, big boys, you ALREADY tried your ways, and it did not worked well. Now stop arguing and follow MY strategy I outlined for you all”.
But – 1) strategy, and 2) imposed upon parties who would prefer to make their choices and to wag Russia along their plans.
> All military action in Syria is dependent on Russian geo-political moves.
Such a broad statement, that I fail to see any specific sense in it.
So I even don’t know if I agree or disagree with it.
> In 2017, Russian air force 2IC stated that all Syrian radars were linked into the Russian control center.
More or less. “Full integration” or something.
Though really seamless integration was hardly possibly with such an ancient technology as S-200 and S-125 (those latter were “upgraded” to some degree, but how deep the upgrade was is again military secret).
So, three things were claimed, if my memory serves me: “full integration”, [re-]training of SAA AD personnel and some “upgrades” to S-125 and probably some other old USSR-made systems.
> The 2IC of Russian air defenses in Syria stated Syrian air defense cannot launch against Russian plans.
Specific quote and link?
While I can easily see some laptop with Wi-Fi connection to Russian HQ placed in S-200 cabin, I can not see why S-200 crew in that cabin could just ignore the laptop readings and make their local decisions, in panic, in bad mood, in time pressure, or otherwise.
One thing is being provided with some signals, another is acting on them.
> It is the Russian control at Latakia airbase that identify and designate all targets.
Yep, but I do not believe such a intranet-connected laptop in S-200 cabin having direct and full controls of all the S-200 mechanics. General can order grant to pull his gun’s trigger, but he orders, not pulls himself.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 15:30 utc | 162

Anyone who believes Zionist vultures aren’t circling the Russian bear ready to dig in their claws is dreaming. Do you really believe that a million or more Russian Zionists living in Israel aren’t heavily influencing the direction of Russia?

Posted by: Circe | Sep 25 2018 15:39 utc | 163

Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 25, 2018 10:49:51 AM | 171
(Putin fibs corrected by Defense Ministry: anonymous Moscow source)
Nice try:-)
But embarrassingly at odds with b’s previous IL-20 post which is based on the published conclusions of the RF MOD’s official investigation.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 25 2018 15:40 utc | 164

And since comments turned into UN and other general international politics topics – on old 2016 article.
“As the former Director General of the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission, I was one of more than a dozen Israeli security and nuclear experts who, with J Street’s help, came to the United States to make this case directly to US lawmakers. Thanks in part to our efforts — your efforts and mine — we succeeded in defeating those who tried to undermine diplomacy and kill the [Iranian JCPOA] agreement.”
https://jstreet.org/i-ran-israels-atomic-energy-commission-i-know-the-iran-deal-is-working-_1
When Israeli, German, American and other politicians retire, they usually prove being sentient beings. But only after retirement.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 15:40 utc | 165

reply to:
Arioch 142
“…the target they [IAF] were hoping to get a second crack at was Assad as he was at that location as he was scheduled to fly to Russia.@frances #64
Is there some published information on that Assad’s location (which exactly? civilian airport?) and plans?”
I read about it on two different sites a few days ago, I will try and track them down for you. What they said was; Erodogan required Assad’s signature on the Idlib agreement and Assad was going to Russia to meet with Putin and sign it.
Rather than fly out of Damascus Airport which was just hit by Israeli fire (burning an Iranian plane) he was going to fly out of Russia’s airport which has greater security.
I had looked to see if there was any info on Assad traveling to Russia but didn’t find anything. It could be false but it did make sense.

Posted by: frances | Sep 25 2018 15:42 utc | 166

karlof1 | Sep 24, 2018 7:41:49 PM | 105
A truly great documentary. The truth remains hidden in plain sight. The UK is run by an Old Boys club of toffs who stash their money from the City in the Caymans and represent disgusting corporations interests in parliament and elsewhere, forever protecting offshore trillions while representing old, old family interests. Explains a lot.
JohninMK | Sep 25, 2018 10:49:51 AM | 171
Interesting take. I would have thought they would at least present a unified front.

Posted by: dan | Sep 25 2018 15:49 utc | 167

frances 180
I believe the only time Assad has been out of Syria since the war began was a trip to Russia a year or so back to meet with Putin, Shoigu ect. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/56135
I took it that Russian military had provided transport, as nothing else, apart from Chinese military, would be safe from US attack.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2018 15:51 utc | 168

karlof1 | Sep 24, 2018 7:41:49 PM | 105A truly great documentary. The truth remains hidden in plain sight.
The UK is run by an Old Boys club of toffs who stash their money from the City in the Caymans and represent disgusting corporations interests in parliament and elsewhere, forever protecting offshore trillions while representing old, old family interests. Explains a lot. Posted by: dan | Sep 25, 2018 11:49:25 AM | 181

Scenes From the Spider’s Web Some will find the information provided by Hudson
in his interview segment astounding and shocking, but somehow not altogether surprising.
Link is at karlof1 post #105. Well-worth educating onesself as to how this stuff works.

Posted by: Guerrero | Sep 25 2018 16:03 utc | 169

…….were initially delivered to Cyprus from Russia in 1997. It is actually the pre 1997 system and was never unpacked from Cyrpus army. It was delivered under Russian supervision and later unpacked in 2004. The system has Russian operators it won’t work in other way.
@Greece #115
So, since 1997 there was an agreement for Russian Army to man certain Cyprus military facilities, and since 2004 that agreement materialized and Russian soldiers for 16 years are serving in Cyprus now.
I find it very hard to believe.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 16:24 utc | 170

The decisive blow just struck in the theater has carried all doubts before it,
and calmed many fears. Posted by: Grieved | Sep 25, 2018 9:51:00 AM | 163

I think it is perhaps more akin to the moment when White gives the exchange, a positional sacrifice.
like when White Rook captures on D5 https://youtu.be/noejj1tRQy8 Magnus Carlsen vs. Sergi Karjakin.

Posted by: Guerrero | Sep 25 2018 16:27 utc | 171

@frances #180
> I had looked to see if there was any info on Assad traveling to Russia but didn’t find anything. It could be false but it did make sense.
Maybe I miss something, but it does not make sense to me.
> …..What they said was; Erodogan required Assad’s signature on the Idlib agreement and Assad was going to Russia to meet with Putin and sign it.
Why? Couldn’t Assad sign his copy of the deal in Damascus?
There could be some sense, if Assad was required to attend Putin/Erdogan meeting and take part in the very negotiations, like Poroshenko was attending Putin-Merkel negotiating Minsk-2. However for the best of our knowledge Assad was not there.
Now, if Assad was willing(or persuaded, or coerced) to put his personal signature on that deal AFTER the fact – it can be done in Damascus. No need to fly Moscow or Ankara for that.
> Rather than fly out of Damascus Airport which was just hit by Israeli … he was going to fly out of Russia’s airport
Now, Russia does not have civilian airports in Syria, only military ones, right?
So, either
1) Assad wanted to depart from some Syrian non-Damascus civilian airport, to meet Putin in Moscow,
or 2) Assad wanted to depart from Russian military airbase.
Option 1 does not give him any “extra security” against Israeli raids.
Option 2 implies IAF were planning to raid Russian military airfield in Syria – how else could they “get him” even after IL-20 downing would (let’s imagine) shut down all AD units in vicinity.
No, I can not see any sense in that hypothesis.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 16:32 utc | 172

@Peter AU 1 #170
> Today, a unified integrated air defense system has been set up in Syria.
…and this claim always puzzled me about how much flesh is in it. From purely technological POV integrating ancient S-125 and S-200 and similarly ages short range systems into modern digital networks – seemed somewhat unbelievable.
> We have ensured the information and technical interlinkage of the Russian and Syrian air reconnaissance systems.
Here! The “reconnaissance systems” – that is, exchange of intelligence. But not the “acting arm” of SAA put under direct control of “electronic brains” of RuAF.
> All information on the situation in the air comes from Syrian radar stations to the control points of the Russian force grouping,” he said.”
And this is even MORE specific. It claims there was no information exchange (both ways, duplex), but merely importing, absorbing of Syrian information into Russian computers.
There could be more integration done, but that was left outside that specific statement.
> Russia is helping Syria restore and modernized its air defense system,
…helpING – thus work in progress
> …..the efficiency of the integrated air defense system,
no specifics upon “integration” claim.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Recently at Smoothie’s I was challenged after my claim that Putin’s words about “changes everyone would see” mean little per se. The changes when materialized would mean a lot, hopefully. But words themselves, and so vague at it, were meaning little. Even when spoken by Putin personally.
In part this my skepticism is fueled by all those “integration” drums beating of the past months

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 16:57 utc | 173

@JohninMK #171
> Last week President Vladimir Putin triggered the most serious crisis of his presidency, as the Defence Ministry and the Russian General Staff (Stavka) declared…
I wonder why does mr. Helmer use that word, “Stavka” ? Does he try to use a colourful exotic ethnic-sounding word to get some vibes, or what ?
1914 – 1918: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ставка_Верховного_главнокомандующего
1941 – 1945: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ставка_Верховного_Главнокомандования
Period. Stavka is an emergent extraordinary governing organ created in the wake of World War and dismissed after it.
I believe there is no any Stavka in Russia today.
There is General Staff (HQ) – Генеральный Штаб, ГенШтаб
Using the obviously incorrect but sounding ethnic and cool term does not add to mr. Helmer’s plausibility.
> …that Putin’s explanation for the downing of the Ilyushin-20 electronic reconnaissance aircraft by Israeli fighters was false, and worse – capitulation to Israel.
Can anyone quote specific official claim of an acting Russian military saying that “Putin read out capitulation to Israel” ?
mr. Helmer claims no less than RuMoD publicly claiming Putin’s words being “capitulation”. I do not remember no such claim, so is very interested to read it.
Also, common sense says, if your High Command orders you a capitulation, you either execute the order, or rebel against High Command and overthrow it. I see neither yet.
> “In making all his concessions, one after another, Putin has been watched very carefully. His civilian advisors – [Foreign Policy Advisor Yury] Ushakov in particular – are making mistakes
So, was Putin “making concessions” – or “capitulating” (IOW surrendering everything, not a dozen of concessions here and there)?
So, was Putin, after being misadvised, playing for win but “making mistakes”, or was he “capitulating” thus admitting defeat and ending the game ?
Well, guess I would not read mr. Helmer’s articles. I have other means to get emotional thrills when I need them.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 17:17 utc | 174

@152 jen.. thanks.. i haven’t been following it closely, but as you note – there are a few different storylines on the possibility of chinese involvement.. i guess we will have to wait and see…
@166 ian.. thanks for sharing your perspective on this same topic..

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2018 17:19 utc | 175

smoothies latest.. relevant to this thread topic, unlike a lot of the other comments, lol..
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2018/09/so-it-is-s-300pmu2-favorit.html

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2018 17:20 utc | 176

“Third, the Chinese don’t see the Syrian War as a problem to them…”
Ian | Sep 25, 2018 10:08:12 AM | 166
They see the 10,000+ armed, trained and radicalised Uighurs in Idlib very much as a problem. They know full well that this de facto army is intended to be injected into their western regions , there to cause chaos and disrupt a key BRI route. I agree that it is unlikely that any significant numbers of Chinese troops will be deployed, for logistical, political and indeed cultural reasons. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the issue is of acute concern to the very highest levels of the Chinese leadership.

Posted by: Ross | Sep 25 2018 17:35 utc | 177

While I am not a big fan of Paul Craig Roberts I guess I would quote from one his recent piece, it seems to get relevant for this topic as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
One of the reasons that truth is on the decline is that truth is becoming emotion-based, not evidence-based. It is all about feelings. This seems to have begun with feminists, but teaching women to trust their feelings, that feelings are truth, couldn’t be kept just in the women’s locker room. It has spread into the men’s as well and is now also an affliction of some of the younger men.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 17:48 utc | 178

What has been the most effective anti-Russian false flag of the last few years? IMHO the Malaysian Boeing over Donetsk.
@Don Wiscacho #92
Carthago dele… Cough!
Want to use this opportunity to again remind readers that just few HOURS before the downing of IL-20 occupied all MSM news and forums, there was a RuMoD briefing wit hnew documents about MH17 published. Now it all went down the memory hole.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 25 2018 17:56 utc | 179

@115 Greece
I am surprised that you are unaware of the stupidity and perfidy of your countrymen: https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israel-trained-against-Russian-made-air-defence-system-in-Greece-436320
Or
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/94533-151204-israel-greece-coordinated-exercises-against-s-300-missile-system-report
Or
Greeks conceded their honor, independence and freedom when they accepted Tsipras’ betrayal of the Greek nation. Greece is no more than a tourist destination for the wily Turks any longer: http://www.newsbarber.com/4890/tsipras-betrayed-the-greeks/
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/21/learning-from-the-greek-betrayal/
Posted by: USA=ISIS | Sep 25, 2018 3:33:16 AM | 133

I never called you any names, neither your countrymen. Why so butthurt? I only speak against actions of Israel in the general region. What’s your beef? Can you find us a legitimate/official source of your “Greeks gave the S-300 secrets BS, or we just have to trust faceless co-intel-pro online outlets of the Mossad/CIA out there? Can you even find us a genuine Russian source maybe even with ties to actual Russian vets to confirm what your “outlets” are spewing out?

This is for those who think that nothing has changed, that Putin is still in charge of relations with Israel and that the Russian military wouldn’t dare shoot down an IAF plane. Quite the opposite, no conciliatory words just rapid moves so they are in position to activate a revenge pounce.
Incidently the Israeli security cabinet voted this morning to continue with their attacks on Iranians in Syria so we can expect fireworks.
Another good article from John Helmer this time on how Putin’s initial soft response to Israel was overturned by the military last weekend. This is the start of it the rest is on his web site. I won’t put the whole link in as I am not sure how not to screw up the thread formatting so johnhelmer dot org/?p=17939#more-17939
Last week President Vladimir Putin triggered the most serious crisis of his presidency, as the Defence Ministry and the Russian General Staff (Stavka) declared that Putin’s explanation for the downing of the Ilyushin-20 electronic reconnaissance aircraft by Israeli fighters was false, and worse –capitulation to Israel.
Sources in Moscow report the military’s loss of confidence in the Commander-in-Chief has not been seen in public since President Boris Yeltsin countermanded orders for Russian military aid to Serbia under NATO bombing between March and June 1999, dismissing Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov on the US demand.
“[Putin] has blundered with Erdogan, with Netanyahu,” commented one Moscow source. “In making all his concessions, one after another, Putin has been watched very carefully. His civilian advisors – [Foreign Policy Advisor Yury] Ushakov in particular – are making mistakes. They expect[ed] the show of strength in Syria would have changed US and European attitudes, and they would listen. They didn’t. So the Russian military have reminded Putin – we told you so.”
On Monday morning, following an unprecedented Sunday briefing at the Defence Ministry, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu announced measures which Putin has repeatedly dismissed over many years. The new Russian war policy puts a stop to Putin’s assurances to the US, the European NATO powers and Israel that he was resisting the recommendations of his General Staff. Putin’s resistance ended on Monday morning. Shoigu and the Stavka ended it.
Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 25, 2018 10:49:51 AM | 171

He sure did. I believe now that the Russian military is in command of the whole Syrian operation sidetracking Putin.
A few details about the year 1999 that never made it in to the “whole picture” of Yugoslavian wars and how close we came to WWWIII 2 times, not just once, after The British NATO Mil.CHieff resigned over the airport /Russian special forces dispute.
Y2K “virus”, operation is being redied for the end of the yar to cause chaos amid a general plan to start WWIII. Operation failed.
Turkey in late August and early September days after crashing of Greek Stock Market (Greek Stock market Crisis where billions were lost) hastily ammases naval and submarine forces with additional ground force movement for a suprise attack in the Aegean un the case the Stock market crash spirals out as widespreds riots and chaos in Greece. The exact spot of the Naval base of Marmara, that housed fuel facilities on top, sis struck by an earthquake of 7+, resulting in the complete destruction of the surounding area and bases resulting in 10ths of thousands of casualties. With Turkish navy kin the Bosporus any russian fleet move would be succesfully blocked plus Turkey gets a piece of greece as a reward for blocking Russia in the midst of a start of a WWIII. A few months before – Pristina airport incident occures – where NATO backs down and British General resigns allegedly avoiding a WWIII. In Same October Yeltsin claims health problems an in a matter of days unexpectedly in late December resign s puting V.Putin in charge.
The world gets another chance in peace leaving turbulent 1999 behind.
“When The Least Expected, Expect The Unexpected”
Dog Eats Dog.

Posted by: Greece | Sep 25 2018 18:00 utc | 180

@all
Swept out a few trolls and some related one-liner comments. The comment numbering will be effected.

Posted by: b | Sep 25 2018 18:43 utc | 181

thanks b.
I gave up reading the comments last night. Nobody seemed grateful that the S-300 had arrived in Syria, for Syria. In a hard life I have tried to learn gratitude. I am sure the Syrians were saying “Thank you Russia.” So I read things like “about time too, Putin” to paraphrase people completely unaware about the complexity of the Israel/Russia relationship which I can only sense to be rather complex.

Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 25 2018 19:40 utc | 182

All,
I searched several sites for the info on Assad departing to RU from the Russian airbase (and hence being a target of the Israeli fighters) but was unable to locate my sources. I will continue to look.

Posted by: frances | Sep 25 2018 19:57 utc | 183

Re: Lochearn, Sep 25, 2018 3:40
The complexity of the relationship of Russia with Israel has several aspects. I doubt that large Russian speaking population in Israel, including some tycoons, and the presence of Jewish oligarchs in Russia plays a very significant role, but it shows up from time to time. For example, for a while Avigdor Lieberman, a Russian speaker from Moldova, was in hot water for a while because of some foreign bank accounts and very fortunate transactions benefitting his daughter; at the time Belorus refused to help Israeli investigation by disclosing his bank records, in spite of (because of?) a diplomatic efforts by Israeli ambassador to Belorus that was personally selected by Lieberman (then FM). Lieberman plays an ultra-nationalist on TV, but keeps bank accounts in Belorus? Nothing really inconsistent, by it raised my eyebrows. Israel, the last time I checked, made no public statement concerning Crimea, that is another “direct link”.
That said, Israel is definitely “Denmark on Mediterranean”, but a state that half-jokingly is viewed as a hegemon in respect to USA. Its military posture is a mix of arrogance and paranoia and enjoys a very wide support in Congress and considerable support in the White House. That makes shooting down of Israeli planes and preparations to shoot them down a rather dicey manouver. In a limited war that we have in Syria it is important to avoid steps that are viewed as an escalation and induce counter steps that largely eleminate the putative advantage, so the balance of military capabilities remains roughly the same but at a higher cost level. But if the move is a response to an “escalation” it is a different story.
This is an ample justification for a (conjectured) tactic to delay the systematic improvement of Syrian air defences to a diplomatically convenient occasion. In the same time, Putin has reasons to make a show of concern for the lives of Russian servicemen and a decisive reaction. Only time will show if (a) it is just a show, or much more than a show, and (b) assuming that this is a real thing, how effective it is against the best American-Israeli technology and well trained crews. My opinion is that Russia has a lot to gain by doing the real thing, and the current moment is indeed very, very convenient. Just observe the very tepid reaction in our establishment media. The effectiveness will be revealed soon enough, here I do not have any info allowing to make an educated guess.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 25 2018 20:47 utc | 184

Typo: Israel in definitely NOT a “Denmark”, but a state with a considerable punch, owing to foreign support, thus allowing an arrogant posture. Compare to Denmark that may make a step potentially nixing North Stream II (American influence?) and then reconsidering that step (German influence). And who cares enough about the Danish military posture to try to characterize it?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 25 2018 20:55 utc | 185

Jen @108–
Thanks for the book reference; I’ll certainly check it out. The entire financial ponzi edifice Hudson describes is fantastical, and it’s no wonder none of the “technical” aspects are taught at any collegiate level as Hudson attests to in his autobiographical interview and the one given for the movie. It’s just the sort of material knowledge that psychohistorian begs to use to educate the public. I wonder how long it will remain on YouTube before it gets redacted.
Lots of action taking place today, particularly at UNGA. Oh, one extraordinary fact I gleaned from Pepe Escobar’s most recent I linked to earlier is that China, with 1.4 billion people, will soon experience a labor shortage. Meanwhile by comparison, the Outlaw US Empire has a real domestic unemployment rate of @25%, as shown by Shadow Stats, which is @50 million people out of a labor force of @200 million–quite a testament to the success of China’s economic system and failure of Neoliberal Capitalism. And Trump thinks the Empire will prevail over China in the Trade War he started.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 25 2018 21:20 utc | 186

@183 Khmeimim airbase is also called Bassel Al-Assad International Airport

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 25 2018 21:26 utc | 187

@b no worries here, mate
/wink
regards
OY

Posted by: oldenyoung | Sep 25 2018 21:34 utc | 188

interesting headlines at amn…
Israeli cabinet calls on IDF to continue strikes inside Syria
Military will continue to strike Iranian targets in Syria despite S-300 – Netanyahu

Posted by: james | Sep 25 2018 22:33 utc | 189

Putin lied to Bibi is Moscow,the S300s have been there unused since May while
the Syrian crews were trained.
Nothing geostrategic is ever announced until long after the fact.
Bibi fell into elephant trap.

Posted by: Winston | Sep 25 2018 22:42 utc | 190

This Tweet and reply illustrates the fundamental nature of the contrived divide between Shia and Sunni as do further thread comments. Islam as a religion/philosophy is fundamentally very simple. I’ll cite the following from The Rise of Islam:
“[The Quran] conveys, in often intense and unambiguous language, the central idea of divine unity and power, and the requirement that the believer (the Muslim) choose between Submission to the will (or law) of God, the promise of which is salvation, and an unrighteous life whose outcome is eternal damnation… Islam means “submission, and thus the Muslim is one who submits or surrenders.” [Emphasis original](pg. 9)
As you see, you either submit and become a Muslim or you don’t and remain infidel/pagan–there’s no halfway or second-string. Some try to explain the contrived divide between Shia/Sunni as akin to that existing between Protestant/Catholic (which somehow always ignores Orthodox, and in the former Sufism [Islamic Mysticism]), but the analogy is quite false.
Syria as many now know having researched its history and cultural fabric, is a fantastically rich amalgam of most known religions and cultures from West Asia–a very unique place totally undeserving of its current fate. If the terrorist invaders had won, the world would have lost what amounts to a priceless heritage. It takes a certain Evil to try and erase something as priceless as Syria. Russia’s intervention saved a priceless human heritage, but the Evil that spawned the invasion must still be defeated. Today, the representative of that Evil was laughed at during his UNGA rant–The Emperor no longer has clothes to wear, its naked evil now exposed for all to see, loathe and resist.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 25 2018 22:42 utc | 191

karlofi 188
China is the most extreme form of neo- capitalism . A work force equal to the population of the US ruthlessly exploited by foreign Capital and a local comprador class .
As Mao said ‘ many cultural revolutions will be necessary !

Posted by: ashley albanese | Sep 25 2018 22:52 utc | 192

Ashley Albanese @196–
Assertions are a dime a dozen. Try using some facts to bolster your premise.
This article’s Based on two Outlaw US Empire documents the writer argues prove regime change was never the bottom line goal:
“the opposition was seen as a temporary tool, to be discarded once the goal of ensuring a more ‘friendly’ autocratic Baathist structure was in place.”
and
“senior US military officials had not given any credence to the democratic aspirations of Syrian protestors, but had merely sought to use them as a tool to sideline expanding Iranian influence.” [My emphasis]
That’s why the Zionists are constantly saying they’re attacking Iranian assets within Syria and why Bolton just said the Outlaw US Empire will remain illegally within Syria until Iranian forces leave.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 25 2018 23:11 utc | 193

Don Wiscacho @ 91:
How many more times can the Ukrainian air force keep killing civilian passenger jets before people start to twig that something fishy is going on? They’ve already done it twice. MH17 wasn’t the first time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
The problem is that to keep the public in the dark, these incidents can’t occur too frequently. By the time MH17 becomes a history text-book memory, the Ukrainian state may have broken up and all its institutions – including its armed forces – may no longer exist.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 25 2018 23:20 utc | 194

So with Israels fleet of F-35’s operational within the past year Syria getting S-300’s may not be a game changer some think. In fact they will be good training For Israel as they prepare for operations against Iran. Putin knows this.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 25 2018 23:27 utc | 195

Apologies if this has been posted or is old news by now. This statement by Konashenkov was made approximately on the 23rd, and Saker already grabbed it off RT on the 24th, but the live translation voice-over wasn’t good, and commenters called it out as unhelpful.
Vesti now has the clip with subtitles. It’s good background for laggards like me who are running days behind the breaking data. The RT voice-over ended by quoting Konashenkov as saying the Israeli statements have nothing to do with reality. The Vesti subtitles and headline go further and translate him as saying the statements are “nothing but lies.”
“Nothing But Lies”: MoD Spokesmen Konashenkov Lays Into Israeli Underhand Tactics and Deceit

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 25 2018 23:57 utc | 196

I hope I am not adding to the ‘flak’ I myself find objectionable, but I would like to say that my comment as posted at 145 was truncated into a statement of fact, when it was framed differently in the original post. Here is the original:
“A tentative answer to one of my questions (yes, speculative)would be there was something
occurring in the Idlib area that caused the Israelis to panic and want to get that
plane out of the air in spite of the repercussions. It had to be something big to be
worth using that whole scenario to distract or obfuscate what was going on. The
plane was operating over that area, and then it wasn’t.
But I can’t think of anything of such a magnitude that what they did made sense.”
I should have framed the first paragraph as a question. It was not, as it sounded in its
truncated form, a statement of fact.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 26 2018 0:00 utc | 197

@201 juliania
I think that to most of us the big news has been what the Israelis did, and what the Russians then did, but all along you have been chewing on this bone of, Why?
It seems there are two possibilities: either the whole thing is a provocation born of hubris, and in terms of plot is only a “nothing burger”. Or, something else was going on.
We don’t have all that back story yet. It seems important, and one of Russia’s notable commentators says that he thinks even Putin doesn’t know why – at least when his news show was recorded. I’ve been trawling my Vesti channel again, and you may like this for the feel from Russia: Putin Clears the Air: Israel Undeniably to Blame for Il-20 Shoot Down in Syria, “Hostile Actor”
I suppose when the Israeli contingent flew to Moscow the great hope in the Kremlin was that Israel would reveal all the sub-narratives layered into the events of that night. Instead, the Russians were met with omerta. Never try to reason with criminals.
So the back story remains to be revealed. Keep us posted.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 26 2018 0:43 utc | 198

To respond further to Arioch@145,
my speculation dealt rather with a scenario that hadn’t yet taken place. I agree, if it was a ‘big thing’ underway, the goose would be cooked. No need to move the plane. But if, say, (another speculation) some folks had been in Idlib all this time that needed to be spirited away, having that plane there monitoring what was going on wouldn’t be great. So, the plane was ‘persuaded’ to move, since the Israeli message was: an attack is coming your way. And the plane did move, but the attack then, came in across where it moved to.
But the real question isn’t whether my speculations hold water. I’m really only guessing, for sure. The real question for me is why on earth did the Israelis do this?

Posted by: juliania | Sep 26 2018 0:43 utc | 199

juliania
My though is that if the Israeli’s or others wanted the IL-20away from Idlib, destroying it after successfully moving it away doesn’t add up. Russia will bring in another surveillance aircraft and now views Israel as hostile to Russian forces whereas before Russia stayed neutral re Israel, Syria, Iran.
Korybko’s speculation on an Israeli faction try to split Putin Netanyahu diplomacy sounds a possible, considering Netanyahu agreed to the Russian brokered deal in south west which led to Israels jihadist buffer zone being eliminated.
The other thought I have (based on my belief that Russian air defense designates all aerial targets in Syria) is that this is Netanyahu’s revenge for the Israeli planes shot down by Syrian defenses that are integrated into and controlled from the Russian airbase.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 26 2018 1:28 utc | 200

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