You say "Finally a realistic assessment of the British role in World War II", but not being British, I had no idea they genuinely had such a bloated view of their own importance in the war. My understanding of the war was always that they were a junior partner; an 'also-ran' whose most important contribution was having an island that was a vital staging ground for American troops.

If all Peter Hitchen's has to do to appear shockingly radical is accept a verdict that has long been the standard narrative outside of the UK, then Tory conservatism really is as intellectually empty as I already knew it was.

Posted by: Merasmus | Sep 9 2018 17:46 utc | 1

German field commanders themselves stated that The Battle of Britain was the 'end of the war', and after that it was just troop clashes and saturation bombing cleanup.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Sep 9 2018 18:06 utc | 2

thanks for the posts b... that peter hitchens link on the bottom on a different view on ww2 was interesting reading..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2018 18:09 utc | 3

Khamenei's been busy today with his Twitter, highlighting the details of this essay posted at his website: "U.S.’s failures in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon are signs of God’s promise." A brief, important excerpt:

"ِAt this event, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces delivered a speech wherein he stressed that preventing the formation of an Islamic power in Southwestern Asia is what the U.S. and the Zionist Regime seek, adding: "They know that the fascinating message of Islam is defending the oppressed and the underprivileged; thus, they fear the formation of a power based on Islam."

Many don't know Iran has a significant Jewish population, which helps explain this friendly greeting.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2018 18:15 utc | 4

Khamenei's been busy today with his Twitter, highlighting the details of this essay posted at his website: "U.S.’s failures in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon are signs of God’s promise." A brief, important excerpt:

"ِAt this event, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces delivered a speech wherein he stressed that preventing the formation of an Islamic power in Southwestern Asia is what the U.S. and the Zionist Regime seek, adding: "They know that the fascinating message of Islam is defending the oppressed and the underprivileged; thus, they fear the formation of a power based on Islam."

Many don't know Iran has a significant Jewish population, which helps explain this friendly greeting.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2018 18:26 utc | 5

Breaking News on RT: US using white phosphorus in Syria

https://www.rt.com/news/438008-us-strikes-syria-white-phosphorus/

Posted by: spudski | Sep 9 2018 18:27 utc | 6

Looks like urls with the .ir ending are being censored where they weren't before. Lots of websites under attack while many social media accounts related to the Resistance are being suspended for no reason other than nationality.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2018 18:29 utc | 7

@Anton Worter

What 'German field commanders' were these, then? Every assessment I've ever read is clear that the turning point was when the invasion of the USSR ground to a halt. The Battle of Britain is rather meaningless, since it's extremely doubtful Germany would have been able to launch any kind of substantial, successful seaborne invasion even if they controlled the skies.

Posted by: Merasmus | Sep 9 2018 18:46 utc | 8

I was skeptical of the AlmardarNews report also.

IF Turkey is going to move to fully occupy Idlib, it would logically be at a point of unbearable media anguish over the civilian plight. That would be AFTER a CW attack, which now seems all but certain to occur (but hasn't yet).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2018 19:09 utc | 9

@7 jr.. i have remained unconvinced of the chem attack scenario, however if it happens my astro says wednesday night or thursday at the latest is when it will happen.. in fact, that is a good window of time for it to happen..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2018 19:16 utc | 10

Does anybody know what happened to the Moon of Alabama logo and the Brecht quote? They've been broken for a few days now. b hasn't uploaded copies?

on-topic: The Russians have been warning for the last few weeks that a chemical attack is being prepared (with British assistance) in Idlib. The Russians warned a couple of weeks before Douma that a CW attack would happen as well. However, this time I'm unsure whether the plot will follow through. The neocons seem less and less able to get anything more than a symbolic strike on Syria at this point, and it won't change the strategic or tactical situations on the ground. I do agree that if one happens, it'll be around the September 11th, about the end of the Iran-Russia-Turkey talks. Something to sabotage an agreement concerning "reality on the ground" in Syria, but perhaps not enough to fundamentally change the ultimate direction of the conflict, which is winding down in the Syrian Government's undisputed favor. I guess the goal of the neocon game now isn't "overthrow Assad" as it is "prevent the Syrian government from winding down the war, even as little as we can."

Posted by: David | Sep 9 2018 19:36 utc | 11

USA fire-bombing Deir Ezzor with Banned White Phosphorus

Two F-15 jets on Saturday bombed the town of Hajin with white phosphorus incendiary munitions, banned under the Geneva Convention, according to the Russian Center for Reconciliation in Syria.

https://www.rt.com/news/

438008-us-strikes-syria-white-phosphorus/

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 9 2018 19:37 utc | 12

Merasmus @1

Britain has been living off the British "victory" in World War II since 1945.

Merasmus @6

Anton Worter is referring to the war on the Western Front against the British.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 9 2018 19:40 utc | 13

Yesterday I clicked a link to Al-Masdar News from Canthama's twitter feed. The story was about Kurdish forces ambushing Syrian troops which had previously denied US troops passage through a checkpoint. Anyhow, I was careless with the cursor when scrolling and was immediately hit with malware. Just a warning to be careful.

Posted by: spudski | Sep 9 2018 19:45 utc | 14

The reason Germany went to war in 1941 was because of oil.

Even with oil imports from the USSR and synthetic production from coal (which the Third Reich had enough in the Ruhr for 171 years, maintaining constant levels of consumption of the time), Germany had a deficitary production-to-consumption rate of oil after the UK -- which, at the time, still controlled the Middle East -- blockaded it.

In that scenario, the Third Reich had two options: 1) sue for peace under very unfavorable terms with the UK or 2) invade the USSR and take its Caucasus reserves until September 1st (the date which the German finance minister equivalent of the time calculated its reserves would last). The Germans chose the second option, well before Barbarossa per se begun.

In that context, to conquer Britain didn't make any strategic sense for the Germans. They stopped at Dunkirk for the simple reason enter in a full war against the British would be a quagmire for the Nazis: the real enemy was in the East.

Posted by: vk | Sep 9 2018 19:51 utc | 15

date wise that is the evening of the 12th, or morning of the 13th..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2018 19:52 utc | 16

I still think the NYTimes op-ed article of a “resistance” member of this administration was written by someone in the intelligence community, to make the atmosphere in the White House even more tumultuous. I would even put blame on John Brennan himself, trying to get even somehow. Those in the intelligence field are good in sowing discourse.

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Sep 9 2018 19:54 utc | 17

@ David | 9

Re: "Does anybody know what happened to the Moon of Alabama logo and the Brecht quote?"

This laptop runs on Windows 8.1 (yeah, I know), and I use the Pale Moon browser. I can see the MOA logo and Brecht quote at the top of the page, i.e. as usual. I don't remember it disappearing recently, but I suppose I might have simply failed to notice.

I don't know why you're not seeing them, but I hope this helps.

Posted by: Ort | Sep 9 2018 20:11 utc | 18

Timeless political cartoon, unfortunately.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2018 20:15 utc | 19

Pat Lang starts to wake up:

At some point even the most ardent Trump acolyte will have to admit this [Syria] is now Trump’s policy. It is not something done by the neocons, the deep state, the anonymous resister or the ghost of John McCain without Trump's acquiescence. [And] He is not ... clueless, oblivious ...

I've been saying for over a year that Trump is the Republican Obama. He is a faux populist front man.

Just like "Obamabots", "Trumptard" apologists blame hardliners for the failings of their hero. It's all a game. It's part of the faux populist political model. Faux populists SERVE THE ESTABLISHMENT so they destined to betray their 'base'.

There are two other fallacies that keep cropping up to confuse things:

1) Triumph of Democracy
While some may recognize that USA is no longer a democracy, others continue to insist that "Trump won" and are incline to suspect Russian interference (even while acknowledging the flaws in that theory). Few care to delve much deeper (i.e. engage brain cells).

2) President's Constitutional power
You see this mistake made as Pat Lang declares that Trump 'owns' the Syrian mess now. The President has great power in the US Constitutional system and (sadly) that is why it is so important to the establishment that it be controlled. Trump was SELECTED, not ELECTED.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2018 20:21 utc | 20

Regarding that mysterious New York Times op-ed: I don't claim to know the truth of the matter, but I'm mildly surprised that so few people are thinking out of the box-- or should I say "outside the frame"?-- in which this curious op-ed was presented.

These days, I shouldn't be surprised that any old sensational "bombshell" is taken at face value, especially by extreme anti-Trumpers.

The largely unexamined assumption that the mysterious op-ed is legitimate has triggered a rush of whodunit fantasising; it's reminiscent of a pack of racing dogs chasing after the mechanical bunny used on the racetrack to give the critters a reason to run. (Or the endless, churning amateur espionage screenplay-writers' discussions of the Skripal diversion.)

I don't want to get pulped in the stampede, so I've held off expressing the obvious thought that this agitprop gem could've easily been fabricated right in the NYT newsroom.

Why not? Never mind the conventional pious blather asserting that the prestigious Newspaper of Record would never stoop to such chicanery.

Actually, I realize that this is a little too cut-and-dried; it's probable that the NYT poobahs would be more inclined to "let it happen" rather than "make it happen"-- they need a measure of deniability.

OTOH, the NYT is a major Big Lie fulfillment center. It essentially demands that the public trust its explanation of the circumstances under which the op-ed was published; once the "bombshell" is detonated, and the whodunit controversy is off and running, only rigorous skeptics (ahem) would even think to question whether the NYT itself launched this IED of self-sealing infoganda.

This possibility is too mind-blowing for Normals, of course. But why assume that the NYT's carefully-staged and veiled assertions about the op-ed's origins are credible? It certainly pushes all of the right "Resistance" buttons; whether it's perceived as a righteous "whistleblower" attempting to Save Us from the ongoing horror of a Trump presidency, or a treacherous stab in the back from some insider, it doesn't reflect well on Trump.

If one accepts these sources as credible and reliable, one must perforce conclude that Trump is either seriously deranged, or is so hamstrung by his own megalomania and narcissism that he's intolerably incompetent and out of control. He is simply too mad, or bad, or both, to be allowed to remain on the Oval Office Throne.

I just saw a column by a progressive-liberal columnist, Will Bunch, at philly.com with the headline "President Trump is not well. Congress must curb his power to start a nuclear war.". It almost sounds sympathetic, but the message is that both the mysterious op-ed and Woodward's book conclusively "prove" that Trump is either ethically or mentally unfit to hold office, or both.

Hmmm... these days, no matter where one looks, it's all about the "bombshells"!

Posted by: Ort | Sep 9 2018 20:22 utc | 21

Garrie's Twitter explains why the EuraisaFuture website was attacked and forced offline. Seems he's teamed with George Galloway to do a series of articles called "The History Boys," which initially looks into how WW1's result led to WW2--a thesis that's pretty mainstream.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2018 20:26 utc | 22

@16 Ort Thanks, I'll try that.

Posted by: David | Sep 9 2018 20:31 utc | 23

Merkel want to illegally bomb Syria like her puppetmaster Trump

Germany May Join Possible Western Airstrikes on Syria - Reports
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809091067884784-germany-may-join-western-airstrikes-damascus/

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 9 2018 20:32 utc | 24

Ort

I addressed the NYT Op-Ed in the last Open Thread.

What do you think? Does 'political cover' for Trump make more sense to you than NYT making it all up? Looking forward to your thoughts.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

When one understands the reality of the political system, as I explained @18, it is much easier to decipher strange occurrences like the NYT Op-Ed.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2018 20:45 utc | 25

Thanks 'b' the inclusion here of the world war 2 topic, hopefully will be usefull back ground information when we finally get to grips with the topic of ' present day nazi Germany' and ditto Presant day nazi Europe !
This overlooked subject will be the end of the world as we know it ! Within the next two years.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 9 2018 20:49 utc | 26

Re news media and servers in general. I ask the following favor: can you kind lords and ladies suggest the online news outlets you read to skim headlines? I have been reading ZeroHedge (yes I know) but lately have been dismayed by, for example, the very slanted, anti-Venezuelan government articles. As well, yesterday they apparently put on some kind of block or herding function on the comments section which no longer appears using safari or firefox. Thanks

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Sep 9 2018 20:52 utc | 27

Canthama suggests reading this twitter thread on Syria even if you think you know everything.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 9 2018 21:02 utc | 28

Synagogues celebrate Jewish festival of… AIPAC!

by Philip Weiss

Mondoweiss: "Next week the Jewish high holidays begin. And countless synagogues will have Zionist statements in their services, even if it’s just the Israeli flag on the altar. (While a very conscious minority of synagogues will offer open services that do not include paeans to Israel.)

One stark measure of devotion to Israel is the promotion of AIPAC, the Israel lobbying group, from the bimah. I’ve seen AIPAC’s logo in synagogue sanctuaries on a number of occasions, so I began to collect AIPAC info a few months ago with the headline above in mind.

Here are a dozen and more instances of rabbis celebrating the American Israel Political Affairs Committee– AIPAC– as a good neutral cause. You’d think AIPAC was another Jewish holiday!"

Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue, a Reform congregation in NY, devoted a sermon to celebrate last March’s AIPAC policy conference:

“Have you ever been in a hall with 18,000 other Jews?.. It’s actually an exhilarating experience, so many Jews divided on so many issues all coming together united in support of Israel.”

Hirsch was on a panel at the AIPAC conference espousing Zionism as a progressive cause. “Zionism is a liberal idea… It is a movement to liberate the Jewish people.”

https://mondoweiss.net/2018/09/synagogues-celebrate-festival/

Posted by: Aras | Sep 9 2018 21:03 utc | 29

Haunted by the horrors of Cast Lead

The Electronic Intifada: "The clock was approaching 11:30 in the morning. For children in Gaza, it was the last day in school before a new year holiday. The bell was due to ring shortly.

At 11:27 am on 27 December 2008, Gaza was bombarded by Israeli warplanes. Instead of the anticipated school bell, the children heard the horrifying sound of bombs.

Operation Cast Lead – which began that day – was Israel’s most comprehensive onslaught on Gaza in decades. Israel used its air force, navy, infantry and artillery against a population that already had a long experience of being under military occupation and, more recently, under siege.

By the end of the offensive more than three weeks later, Israel had committed numerous massacres and used phosphorous bombs to target heavily populated areas and even shelled United Nations schools and the main UN food aid warehouse.

In 23 days, Israel killed more than 1,400 Palestinians, including more than 1,100 civilians, of whom 326 were children and 111 were women. It also injured about 5,300, some of whom remain disabled to this very day, and destroyed or damaged thousands of homes."

https://electronicintifada.net/content/haunted-horrors-cast-lead/22996

Posted by: Aras | Sep 9 2018 21:24 utc | 30

@8 james

I've been meaning to ask you: you sometimes allude to your astrological view of the year 2020. Could you expand on that a little in terms of what seems favored to occur, and when?

I'm very interested.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 9 2018 21:55 utc | 31

Actually no, we didn't Win the Second World War. We started it, but, thanks to our weakness and shortage of cash had to hand it over to the USA and the USSR half way through.

I hope this is a joke. As by that b joins realm of Alex Johns hallucinations.

British did not start the WWII although they declared war on Germany September 3, 1939 before Germany reciprocated. But author is blind to historical truth that British were obligated by mutual security Treaty to defend Poland, hence decision was made under legal binding of treaty not an attack on Germany that never happened, no single British bomb fell on German territory until Brits were attacked in 1940 on. Brits although facilitated war by their inept politics they did not start WWII, Hitler knew he started WWII. The only question is, why Brits did not reneged on this treaty even if they did not commence any hostile activities against Germany for next eight months or so way after Poland was defeated, why not lay off and forget about it,

It is simple it was Pact of Ribbentrop Molotov signed barely few days before attack on Poland, which was a shock for British and French elites as earlier Hitler was declaring himself as anti-Soviet crusader, and remembering WWI and knowing that combined natural resources of Russia and German war industry spells their own quick defeat.

The declaration of war against Germany by France and Brits was a warning to Hitler to split from Stalin and return to his original mission of attacking and killing communist Russia. What he did in 1941.
French and British did not want war as in entire 1939 French alone had at least five to one advantage over German troops (10 : 1 wif Brits joined ) vast advantage in every type of weapons on western front as German army was engaged East in Poland, they did nothing as they waited for Hitler to drop Pact with Stalin.

Instead he attacked France in 1940 at this point US, earlier supporter of Hitler switched to political neutral and after Hitler failed to win Battle of England started to support Brits meaningfully. Perhaps his defeat and US engagement prompted Hitler to return to attacking USSR in another twist shocking for Stalin that after 1939 massively increased trade with Germany especially exports of fuel as well as cooperation in MIC of both countries. Stalin thought that after England, Hitler will end the war and seek peace on his terms with the west.
He was so shocked (also he killed most competent generals in 1938) that for weeks German Army advanced unopposed about 50 miles a day while rail transports of oil and other commodities for export From Russia to Germany contunued for days while brutal war raged.

The fact is there were two winners of WII Stalin ( while Soviets lost 30 millions) and US banking oligarchy, everybody else lost.

British Empire was effectively deateated via after war bankruptcy and collapsed in following 20 years by join effort of US and USSR during war struggle.

Posted by: Kalen | Sep 9 2018 21:58 utc | 32

I bet that either Trump wrote this or had someone close to him write it. Everyone who works for Trump is now vehemently denying that they wrote it because no one wants to admit to traitorous behaviour. What a brilliant way to ensure loyalty from his administration.

Posted by: Lavrenty | Sep 9 2018 22:02 utc | 33

Posted by: vk | Sep 9, 2018 3:51:48 PM | 13

Any calculations of the Nazi economy were the calculations of a war economy. If they had concentrated on consumption they would have made it out of the depression like everybody else.
The war needed oil and there were many ways to get it.
Germany synthezised oil from coal, but there were also imports from Romania and Austria.
There is speculation that the US and Britain could have finished the war much earlier by bombing German refineries but did not do so in order to weaken Stalin.

The thirst for oil was a consequence of war not the reason for it. Stalin would have sold Germany all the oil it needed - cheaply, just to keep it in the Hitler-Stalin pact. Germany - and Austria - were ruled by a military caste obsessed with colonizing the east. They had not realized the strategic stupidity of the First World War, they did not realize the strategic stupidity of the Second.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 9 2018 22:04 utc | 34

the bbc had a tv show called great britains
churchill won

britain could never be defeated operation barborossa could have been directed at blighty and the dads army would have prevailed.
yes sir hilter did not have the technology to beat the britishers.
they where just to strong and hungry for the fight
the bulldog breed could never be defeated
we triumphed and had a great victory @ dunkirk because the hilter was scared it was a trap so he let them all go home on litle toy ships.
hilter understood the british he was a fan of the peters projection maps and understood how massive great britain was in reality.
he also spent much time in liverpool and russell square at the tavistock where he met his friend winston who would come around for free drinks steak and kidney pies
and to pick up cash from the city of london bankers called the focus group who sponsored hair hilters time in blighty
hilter understood his friend and nemesis churchill well
the goy had to go a reset was needed
just like syria cleaning to much history
erase and start again anew
yes sir funny old world

Posted by: norman normal | Sep 9 2018 22:09 utc | 35

charles highams book Trading With the Enemy: An exposé of the Nazi-American money ...
is all you need if you are interested in who provided the aviation fuel for nazi and britain during ww2

who owned and got paid for the synthetic oil from coal
who provided the lead neaded for military vehicles
funny old world

Posted by: norman normal | Sep 9 2018 22:27 utc | 36

Vk@13

Germany got over half of its oil from Mexico after Mexico nationalized the oil industry in 1938. They saw that was jeopardized when the pro US conservatives won the 1940 elections. So like you say, it was about securing oil resources ahead of losing access to Mexicos oil.

Something they might not have needed to do at that time if not for the Brits having declared war on them after invading Poland. Of course the Soviets invaded Poland as well but they became allies when Germany invaded them and in the end the war for Poland ended with Poland left behind the Iron Curtain and somehow victory was declared despite having lost Poland to the communists

An awful lot of effort and deaths to free half of Germany and Italy from fascism. Brits lost their Empire and suffered 10 years of reconstruction but they did nationalize the BOE (didnt change much) , gave the people NHS (trying to trash it now) and later created or at least joined a new Empire using the Eurodollar via their tax havens

Posted by: Pft | Sep 9 2018 22:32 utc | 37

add to 31/32

Soviet-German trade agreement of 1939

This agreement served two purposes. First, it brought two complementary economies closer together. To support its war economy, Germany needed raw materials—oil, manganese, grains, and wood. The Soviet Union needed manufactured products—machines, tools, optical equipment, and weapons. Although the USSR had slightly more room to maneuver and a somewhat superior bargaining position, neither country had many options for receiving such materials elsewhere. Subsequent economic agreements in 1940 and 1941, therefore, focused on the same types of items.

The Soviet Union did supply oil to Germany, and - of course - stopped supplying when Germany went to war.

Germany did not invade the Soviet Union for oil. They had already got it.

Germany was ruled by this mad East-Elbian military caste obsessed with owning eastern colonies. Germany had been late with industrialization (an advantage), they were late with colonizing. There was nothing rational about it as the time for the occupation of colonies was over. Britain and France lost most of them after the war, and the US inherited Vietnam.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 9 2018 22:54 utc | 38

somebody@31

Germany was at war with Briitain knowing it was just a matter of time before the US jumped in. Being reliant on the Soviets for oil knowing that UKUS could reach their own pact with Stalin would have been foolish

Hitler had plans to finish off the Soviet Union at some point, and the world probably would be better off if he did (we will never know) but the Brits declaration of war and uncertainty of Mexican oil supplies forced him to act earlier than he was prepared to.

As for not knocking out some refineries in Germany. they did knock out the Romanian refineries which were more important to Germanys military efforts against Russia. Much of Germans industry used coal but they did disrupt transportation making it difficult to transport product to/from refineries

As for Germanys economy before the war.

"Hitler issued the law about the reduction of unemployment in June of 1933. Over two million people started building autobahns, railways and channels. The government was reducing taxes for the companies that were expanding their investment activities and contributing to the growth of employment. The unemployment rate was halved in a year and was completely liquidated in 1936.

The nation extricated from the crisis in the heavy industry in 1935. The Fuhrer was getting ready for war. Schacht did his best to fund the defense industry of Germany. He used a parallel currency – Mefo bills – to cover a half of all expenses to rearm the German army."

A Russian source is hardly biased in Hitlers favor. He was on a war footing but Germany did better than most countries in the depression after 1933, and he got a lot of help from American, French and British companies in rebuilding the country.

See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/world/europe/02-07-2009/107924-hitler-0/

Posted by: Pft | Sep 9 2018 23:04 utc | 39

22

Along with the USA, Germany was instrumental in the destruction of Yugoslavia.

32

That Germany was trading with Mexico for oil explains why Mexico has German-built railroads dating back to that period. See for example the old railway from Chihuahua to Copper Canyon aka Las Barrancas Del Cobre.

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 9 2018 23:12 utc | 40

Worth a read.

http://gulftoday.ae/portal/28fa9eb3-afbb-45ad-ba7d-db8574b0f899.aspx

Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 9 2018 23:31 utc | 41

b,
David @9

Does anybody know what happened to the Moon of Alabama logo and the Brecht quote? They've been broken for a few days now. b hasn't uploaded copies?

You are not alone in this. I can see the Brecht quote, but not the MoA logo. Additionally, when perusing some other articles some images where missing. I see this issue on all browsers on my Mac.

Checking my browser console, I see this error: “Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 500 (Internal Server Error)”. (Safari, Opera; Firefox doesn’t flag any error, but doesn’t display the image)

Posted by: Philippe | Sep 9 2018 23:32 utc | 42

Curious that in the conversation thread regarding Germany's need for oil during the Second World War, so far there has been no mention of the oilfields in the Caspian Sea region and the oilfields near Baku (in Azerbaijan) in particular.

Yet one major reason that Germany invaded the Soviet Union in 1942 was to capture these oilfields and secure a foothold in the Caspian Sea region that could eventually give Germany access to oilfields in Iran and other parts of the Middle East, and at the same time cut off British land, sea and other communications with India and Australia.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 9 2018 23:38 utc | 43

Anton Worter @33

Goring wanted to prove what air power could do.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 9 2018 23:43 utc | 44

One of the first casultys of war is the truth ! Fake news was as prevalent then (ww2) as it is now. Another interesting comparison then and now is how words become curupted and very often turned on there head --- attack and aggression turned into defence, freedom fighters called terrorist's and vice versa to suite the false narrative required ! Then and now. I raise this as a glaring example has come to my attention this last 24 hours ! Yesterday on moa's thread a lot of us we're infusiasticly defending socialism ! But even be for this post appeared, following the Swedish election i realised the nazi party had stolen the word socialism ! Just as Hitler had done last time ! Yesterday I defended the term ! In Sweden today I defiantly wouldent--- curupted language as a meens of deception to recruit the gulable into brutality. Heads up folks. Up is the new down!!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 9 2018 23:51 utc | 45

@ Posted by: somebody | Sep 9, 2018 6:04:01 PM | 31
@ Posted by: somebody | Sep 9, 2018 6:54:18 PM | 34
@ Posted by: Pft | Sep 9, 2018 7:04:58 PM | 35

The first and most elemental error people usually commit when judging past historical events is something called "anachronism": when you project the reality of one world (usually, your own times) to the analysed event.

All those comments (and much more here) commit this simple, but easily avoidable, mistake.

1) the world in end of 1930s to the beginning of the 1940s was a world where there were only, for mass exports purposes, three sources of oil: the USA (by far the largest producer and exporter of oil at the time), Venezuela and the Soviet Union in a distant third place. The ME -- believe it or not -- produced and exported oil at the time, but it was very little: those vast reserves still weren't discovered and/or were not economically viable at the time (political turnmoil included among these factors). Yes, Romania produced some oil and exported it, but even it was not nearly close enough to satisfying German needs.

The USSR, at the time, did produce oil in respectable quantities, and exported it to the Germans -- but it still wasn't nearly enough to satisfy both countries' needs. Germany, even with Soviet oil, was incurring chronic deficits in oil -- speciallly because it was expanding its Armed Forces first then everybody else.

So, as you can see, the world was a very different place than today. The oil powers of now were not the oil powers of then.

Documentation is clear: Germany had to start a war with the USSR in June 1941. German oil would end in September 1941 (at least that's what they thought at the time). Situation was so critical that Operation Barbarossa actually doesn't have any objective: aim was just to "get to the Caucasus" and then see what they would do from there (even if they had gone until Baku, the USSR would still have the south and eastern Caspian Sea as routes for their oil; Persia, future Iran, was at their side during the war).

2) there was no "special relationship" back then. There was simply no guarantee the British would get unlimited American aid. Hitler calculated the British might be reasonable. And documents really prove the British government almost surrendered after the shock of Dunkirk. British soldiers who survived are documented to have thought the war was already over.

Even in 1945, the USA was still very suspicious of the UK, to the point it denied it access to the atomic bomb. Things begun to get even more tense after Churchill actually lost the elections of 1946, giving place to Clement Attlee, the social-democrat. At the time, people weren't sure a bipolar world would be born; spectation was that it would be a multipolar world, as it was in the interwar period. It was only after 1947 in the earliest that it became clear a bipolar world would take place.

Posted by: vk | Sep 10 2018 0:37 utc | 46

james @8

US Says Assad Has Approved Gas Attack In Idlib, Setting Stage For Major Military Conflict

Sourced from an unnamed official but in a major publication (Wall Street Journal).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2018 0:49 utc | 47

Completely off any topic, there's a new Russian documentary just released by Masterskaya Movie Company about Moscow. I'm 10 minutes into it and so far it's great. It's very well made, and seems focused on the rapid growth and development happening there, as well as the touches of old and ancient that one finds in old cities:

Megapolis: Ground-Breaking Documentary on the Growing Pains of Moscow, Europe’s Largest City

There's a grip that comes from living in a big city and especially a great one. I suspect it would be easy to fall in love with Moscow, and become as crazy as the other 12 million people living there.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2018 0:52 utc | 48

@29 grieved... i just look for a window of time, in the already agreed to window of time based on the dogma or whatever here.. i have been involved in astrology all my life.. i might not be very good at it, but as i see it - it is a speculative guessing game either way.. so i look at the astro in this window of time and i pick the time based on that! i can give you the quick astro data i am looking at - mars approaching a square to uranus, with venus in opposition to uranus.. moon applying to it all in early scorpio.. essentially a t square with mars at the top and uranus opp venus/moon on the bottom... i put the chart to jisr-ash-shugur which is a good starting point.. in the window of time from about 10pm local time sept 12th to about 2am thursday sept 13th has the moon passing thru all this.. it is as good a time as any for it to be made to happen... so,that is the long and short of it via the astro i am looking at.. it is a simplistic approach and a guessing game at best, but it is as good a guess as any here... hopefully this explains it on a simple level..

@42 jackrabbit.. i can only say this to that, and i have a bridge to sell you, lol..

any comments on the swedish vote that is being worked out at present? it seems a change in the neoliberal game plan is in the works..

Posted by: james | Sep 10 2018 1:01 utc | 49

b,

metadata for the uk police photos show the airport pix used micro$oft photo editing app back on may 3rd. check the direct download buttons at the police site pages and ignore the html embed.

cctv1 cctv2

fotoforensics site just pulled them directly from those download links (copied from fotoforensics)

cctv1
Creator Tool Windows Photo Editor 10.0.10011.16384
Create Date 2018:05:03 18:43:50.00
Date/Time Original 2018:05:03 18:43:50.00
Image Size 695x363
Megapixels 0.252

cctv2
Creator Tool Windows Photo Editor 10.0.10011.16384
Create Date 2018:05:03 13:46:30.00
Date/Time Original 2018:05:03 13:46:30.00
Image Size 692x366
Megapixels 0.253

full report at fotoforensics on cctv1
full report at fotoforensics on cctv2

i still don't buy the simultaneous timestamp explanation.

Posted by: photofour | Sep 10 2018 1:02 utc | 50

here is the direct link as that seems to come out weird..

http://www.moonofalabama.org/images6/suntzuchemical.jpg

Posted by: james | Sep 10 2018 1:02 utc | 51

As previously in Ghouta and Aleppo, some reports currently of US/UK 'advisors'being trapped in Idlib. Does anyone know anything more about this? What was the result of these allegations previously?

Posted by: adamski | Sep 10 2018 1:56 utc | 52

@40.i suppose the Swedes are just supposed to allow immigrants to turn their country upside down and spit their hospitality back in their faces, just so your called liberal ideals can be instituted right? Respect is a two way street. You seem to not know this or deem it unacceptable. Fascism is a result of the left not providing alternatives, the wise know this historical lesson, you do not.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 10 2018 1:57 utc | 53

@42 jackrabbit

The wall st journal alleges, in that link that according to an anonymous source, trump is considering attacking Russian or Iranian troops not just in the event of a chem attack or massacre in Idlib.

A story from an anonymous source late on Sunday (a time with low media viewership) means someone is testing the waters hoping the Russians and Iranians will back down but giving themselves an option to deny it if things go badly. It could just be a neocon putting sh*t out there or trump himself. In any case this is very desperate and dangerous. But it might indicate the reality that the US has no real option to stop the liberation of idlib so they are escalating threats

Posted by: Alaric | Sep 10 2018 2:04 utc | 54

Pepe Escobar has a wonderful new article today in which he discusses the Resistance warrior in the NYT op-ed, as well as the Resistance hit piece from Bob Woodward, and reprises Nixon and Kissinger from the old days of the "golden age of journalism", as Seymour Hersch calls it in his latest memoir, Reporter, and as Escobar details.

The spookiness of the age we live in today couldn't be more resonant with the spookiness exposed back in the golden age. It's all one piece. The only questions are, which is the side to be on? And how are we supposed to leak these secrets anyhow? It's a gripping thriller of an article from Pepe:

‘Resistance’ runs amok in the US Deep Throat War
-- Bob Woodward’s book and the ‘resistance’ op-ed look increasingly like a sophisticated psy-ops scheme and a prelude for a ‘Deep State’ coup

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2018 2:31 utc | 55

james, Alaric

I think you got the wrong impression. I'm not commenting on the accuracy of the reporting. That's why I gave the additional info that it was from an unnamed official BUT from a major MSM outfit.

I replied specifically to james @8 because the report (if true) would fit his astral timeline (even though I'm not a believer in astrology LOL).

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Whether you believe it or not (I have some reservations also), the report is consistent with warnings USA has made and with Russia's military build-up (they seem to have not dismissed USA as a paper tiger like some at MoA).

Here's my logic, FWIW:

1) FUKUS has committed themselves to taking some sort of action is there is a CW attack of any kind. As a result, the jihadis will almost certainly conduct one.

2) If Idlib is liberated, FUKUS has much less justification for remaining in Syria. And direct confrontation with R+6 is possible.

3) The only way that FUKUS can prevent R+6 from taking Idlib is to convince Turkey to enter Idlib for humanitarian reasons.

4) The price for Erdogan to enter Idlib is high and INCLUDES demonstrable military support from FUKUS - that means a willingness by FUKUS to take military action.

5) FUKUS proves their commitment to support Erdogan's movement into Idlib with a strong response to any CW 'incident'.

The scariest game of chicken since the Cuban missile crisis is developing. Yet Westerners are mostly in the dark and pro-Russia "analysts" just believe in the magic of Putin and the inevitable defeat of AZW Empire. LOL.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2018 2:57 utc | 56

Jackrabbit @51

I concur. This is a very dangerous situation but a late Sunday anonymous threat is suspect.

Either

A) Someone is trying to make a threat without actually doing so (bluffing)

or

B) Donald dumb didn’t make that threat, a neocon did perhaps to make the Don look crazy or because neocons are out of viable options.

It’s possible the source provided legit info I guess but recall Donald dumb had the Secretary of State call the Russians to get them out of harms way before his first strike so I’m skeptical.

Posted by: Alaric | Sep 10 2018 3:26 utc | 57

Money. Finance. Currency.

The Keiser Report has a very upbeat show today on RT, in which they celebrate how the NYT has finally come round to reporting the truth about US fracking, in ways that Max and Stacy were reporting 9 years ago.

Fracking has indeed produced oil and gas, but the fields deplete rapidly without massive additional investment. Only the zero-interest rates of the Fed's Quantitative Easing could have financed the fracking boom - without QE, US oil and gas would not even exist on the world's radar.

And yet Neocons are taking the US production of hydrocarbons as a major plank in their platform of war, building castles in the air from a mythical "energy supremacy" and treating current production levels as a weapon of war - but the economics of this relatively minor industry will shut it down soon.

In the second half of the 30-minute show, Max interviews Wolf Richter and they discuss Argentina mostly. It's a rapid and valuable overview of how the US Hegemon deals with its favorite suckers south of the border, and how currencies and bonds work - and also why the IMF acts only to bail out investors and bond-holders, and never the real economy of the victim nation.

Fracking financial crisis lurking (Keiser E1277)

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 10 2018 3:27 utc | 58

@50, Grieved

The link for Pepe's article is: http://www.atimes.com/article/hold-resistance-runs-amok-in-the-us-deep-throat-war/

Posted by: Red Ryder | Sep 10 2018 4:01 utc | 59

"See for example the old railway from Chihuahua to Copper Canyon aka Las Barrancas Del Cobre."

Get off at Creel, and take a public transport to Guachochic, then on to the logging
settlement of Turuachi; then catch a two-seater for scenic Sierra Madre flight to Parral.

Posted by: Guerrero | Sep 10 2018 4:01 utc | 60

If the inevitable fake chemical attack happens on Tuesday, then there is a good probably that the US will be going to war on behalf of al-Qaeda on the 17th anniversary of 9/11. If that isn't the definition of madness, I don't know what is.

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Sep 10 2018 4:17 utc | 61

Grieved @50

I said something similar to your quote from the link a couple of days ago. Its part of the show

Frankly the whole Trump show is psyops theater. While the show is going on in public, in the the wrecking crew in the shadows is working to dismantle every aspect of government that works for the benefit of the population, whats left of it anyways.

I remember the Watergate hearings. They dared to interrupt soap operas which allowed me to grab the TV from my mother some summer afternoons and I found it more entertaining than the 50's shows in UHF stations. Pure entertainment. Maybe we see something similar soon to liven up the show

Of course this time they might give us a civil war to have an excuse to declare martial law.

Cant really predict these things though . Stay tuned.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 10 2018 4:30 utc | 62

Pft @57: Frankly the whole Trump show is psyops theater.

Yup.

Pepe reinforces the narrative that Trump is a nationalist who peace initiatives are thwarted by the nasty deep state. But Trump proved his love for the establishment in the years before he ran for President and no real populist can be elected in USA.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2018 4:56 utc | 63

karlof1 @26

Very interesting. Thanks!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2018 5:00 utc | 64

Billionaires setting up underground bunkers in New Zealand?

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/07/billionaires-plan-escape-from-apocalypse/

Hmmm. I guess earthquakes and global warming dont scare them much.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 10 2018 6:34 utc | 65

The TR3B spycraft propulsion system and ancient Vimana's quantum propulsion.

Here is a temple carving in India:

"A 1200 Year Old Vimana - Alien Flying Machine?"
Phenomenal Travel Videos: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rym865DWWrI

The author of the video has also been participating in "Ancient Aliens" TV Series.

Here is what the carving depictsand is not documented in the video.

A man/woman with a portable flying machine straped on his/her back.
An aparratus that works as a radar device, that holds with hisher left hand.
A navigation device that holds with his/her right hand and holds it in contact with his/her skull that acts like a neural link, putting the pilot in a dream state and uses the pilots actual limbic system in the brain to transmit information from the radar looking device in his left hand and possibly also from the flight device straped on his/her back.

This way this flying apparatus needs no other analog or electronic components and delivers information directly to pilot's brain for height, orientation, environment, flightpath etc.

It is a portable "Vimana".

Why did I post this.
I yesterday saw an interesting article in Sputniknews:

"TR3B Monitoring: Triangular Object above Texas"
https://sputniknews.com/viral/201809091067875311-triangular-object-texas-spy-craft/

and remembered a research I was doing on the internet about the Manta Ray (Black Manta) actually being real or not before some years.

Yes there is a chance it is indeed real and here is how its propulsion works:

First I will post another video link:
"Ancient Vimana recreated" (also from Phenomenal Travel videos channel.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=UNt_Ye51WDk

This 3d object has a history.
It is not real, it is indeed a hoax from an movie artistic department team (by all posibilities) but it depicts some probably real technology, that was discovered somewhere, maybe India, China, Afghanistan, Europe, Russia, who knows, or was part of the Nazi research and US developed the TR3B propulsion from this.
It doesn't work probably like it is displayed on the video, it ought to work like a mechanical/electrical stator and creates a luminus magnetic vortex inside it that behaves as a rotor, if you are familiar with triphase electrical motors. The vortex employs something similar to sonoluminesence, (sound vibration applied in water that creates a luminus aura)

This is why the "black triangle" craft employs these strange lights.
Now the really strange part of this technology.
It wasn't suppose to be working like normal combustion engines or electrical motors etc. The enveloping magnetic/electrical fields actually react to human thought and it makes this technology unstable for dedicated use, especially military. In other words you can disrupt the mechanical cycle of the propulsion with your mere thought patterns. This means the vehicle is distabilized or other properties in use are disrupted, like being "invisible" to the eye. It briefly becomes visible or and appears to be changing shape/structure which in reality is not but if is affectd by the quantum properties of the field it is enveloped with the earthly physical quantum stream/field the magnetic rotor generated field "swims" through. They "desynchronize".

Posted by: Greece | Sep 10 2018 7:29 utc | 66

But why did I really post tis?
Just to piss b off because he/she deleted other posts, and will probably also delete this one too. Ussualy zee Germans are getting pissed when other undersmensch like spme random gusterbaiter are able to understand such complicated concepts better than zee germans can.
What I really posted before 3 days was the natural medium the Athenians used in 10.000bc during the Atlantean wars to surge the energy system the Atlanteans used to power their technologies and thus Atlantis lost to the Greeks but then 500 to 600 years later it created The Great Deluge. It set off the natural system and it rained for years and years, because with this natural medium you can control weather. Pretty much what will happen in the immediate future during the WWIII. That or it will create continuous earthquakes for ever and ever and ever.

Posted by: Greece | Sep 10 2018 7:41 utc | 67

It was late 1943 and Churchill was upset because the Yanks had nixed his pet project Operation Thunderclap, the one that aimed to kill 275,000 Berliners in one single 2,000-plane raid.

As a consolation he asked Roosevelt for a supply of anthrax bombs that would be used to wipe out the population of Germany's six biggest cities. Again Roosevelt refused, but he offered a glittering alternative:

The Dugway Villages:

https://memory.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf

Excerpt: "Dugway was a high-security testing facility for chemical and biological weapons. The purpose of the replicas of German homes, which were repeatedly rebuilt after being intentionally burned down, was to perfect tactics in the fire bombing of German residential areas. In order to build a facility that was an authentic reproduction, studies were conducted to determine which materials and furnishings available in the U.S would closely match those in use in Germany. A group of German-American architects including Eric Mendelsohn and Konrad Wachsmann, were employed to design the facility.

To ensure that the fires spread as realistically as possible, typical German home-interiors were included, and the wood was periodically doused to simulate conditions in the more humid German climate.

According to the official document no effort was spared. The "German" architects used their knowledge of their former country to design the buildings and contents in such detail that even children's toys were included.

The houses had to be built, burnt, built and burnt, again and again.

But it was vital that no kids escape lest they grow up to be Nazis. At last the happy day arrived and the go-ahead was given to drop the bombs on the by now virtually undefended cities. The net result was that within a year more than 40% of German housing stock had been destroyed and up to half a million defenceless men, women and children slaughtered.

Can you just imagine going to work in that facility?

Every day you asked yourself practical questions like “how do we get the fire to spread spread quickly enough so that a mother doesn't have time to reach her baby in the cot?”

Posted by: Aras | Sep 10 2018 9:55 utc | 68

@Anton Worter

I notice you didn't actually answer my question. And how about you actually read some WW2 history first, before attempting to lecture others on subjects you so obviously know nothing about?

The Kriegsmarine was a joke. Aside from being ludicrously outnumbered by just the British Home Fleet, much less the entire Royal Navy (if you actually knew what you were talking about you might have noted that much of the British naval strength was diffused throughout a global empire), it most definitely was not more advanced. The Kreigsmarine lost out on nearly 20 years of meaningful ship design. The destroyers had poor seamanship due to being overgunned. The cruisers consisted of one class of janky wannabe battleships and one class that at its best strove for mediocrity. The battleships were even worse, consisting of one class that would have been comically undergunned even if they had gotten their planned refit (which they didn't), and a followup class that was little more than a super-Bayern. Bismarck and Tirpitz were the mightiest BB's...of 1919. Shame they were laid down in the late 30's.

Posted by: Merasmus | Sep 10 2018 10:18 utc | 69

Churchill declared in 1914:

“I know this war is smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment — and yet — I cannot help it — I love every second I live.”[23]

By 1919, “four months after Germany had accepted an armistice and laid down her arms,” Churchill again declared, “We are enforcing the blockade with rigour, and Germany is very near starvation.” [24]

There is more: “When the Kaiser requested permission to buy 2.5 million tons of food, Churchill denied the request because his aim, in his own words was to "starve the whole population — men, women and children, old and young, wounded and sound — into submission.” [25]

When all was said and done, about 863,000 Germans died of starvation during World War I. Churchill was largely responsible for this. But that was just the tip of the iceberg. Roosevelt allied with this man and even Stalin to commit more crimes during World War II.”

[23] Quoted in Ralph Raico, Great Wars & Great Leaders (Auburn: Ludwig von Mises Institute, 2010), 101.

See also E. Michael Jones, Barren Metal: A History of Capitalism as the Conflict Between Labor and Usury (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2014), 1210.

[24] Jones, Barren Metal, 1211.

[25] Ibid

Posted by: Aras | Sep 10 2018 11:05 utc | 70

Really some of the comments on this site are becoming simplistic anti - English rants

Posted by: ashley albanese | Sep 10 2018 11:09 utc | 71

Posted by: vk | Sep 9, 2018 8:37:02 PM | 48

Well if Germany could buy oil from the Soviet Union, it was completely irrational to go to - a much more expensive - war for it that would have needed even more oil.

There is nothing inevitable about history, there are always other routes that could have been taken.

The "inevitable" was created by the mindset (and the stupidity) of the actors.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 10 2018 11:17 utc | 72

I'm curious Bernhard.

Why does website have the same icon on the top of the page as your website?

http://www.bluestemprairie.com/bluestemprairie/2012/12/scary-mn-representative-elect-jim-newberger-totally-freaks-about-ebq-citizens-forums.html

Why would that be?

Posted by: Julian | Sep 10 2018 11:34 utc | 73

Grieved 57
Nixon moved US to the petro dollar and resigned before being impeached. Trump is the next major change after Nixon and is trying to move US from the petrodollar hegemony to Energy dominance monopoly. Nixon an Kissinger got their move through, but Trump Kissinger need Russia onside to pull off the new move. A good chance Trump will go down without pulling off the move to US global energy dominance.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 10 2018 11:36 utc | 74

Posted by: Aras | Sep 10, 2018 5:55:55 AM | 70

These people are psychopaths.

I have always assumed that the military sense of these war crimes is psychological.
Like Germany's Baedeker raids.

If the goal was to prevent kids becoming Nazis the chocolate of US soldiers was much more effective. You can trace German anti-americanism and possibly Saxony's affinity to right-wing groups back to the Dresden bombings. Bombing people is bad PR.

Churchill was a first class warmonger. Fortunately, for the British, they could get rid of him by a vote. Germany had to lose two wars to get rid of these people.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 10 2018 11:41 utc | 75

Staged Gas Attacks & US Shortcomings: US Senator Tells Sputnik About Syria Trip

The problem is that he is surrounded by the deep state. We use the term to refer to the elements of the CIA, the State Department, to a smaller extent to the Defense Department, some members of Congress, the Senate. Not all Senators, of course, but certain key people. John McCain was a good example. And then we had those think tanks which were typically funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, places like that. They may have a dozen people and their job is to write articles that undermine secular governments and lead to their overthrow.

Posted by: virgile | Sep 10 2018 12:07 utc | 76

@ Posted by: somebody | Sep 10, 2018 7:17:43 AM | 74

Germany's oil shortage, however, was inevitable. The German government thought it was inevitable, and primary evidence on tank and other motorised vehicles usage during Barbarossa (since day 1) and heavy usage of horses indicates the Third Reich really was on its limit in oil supply.

Yes, Germany could have opted for suing peace with the UK under heavily unfavorable terms (Wilhelm Keitel, in his heavily unreliable memoirs, lifts this option, ex post facto), so it could lift the oil embargo from North Africa and the Middle East. But the fact Germany desperately needed oil is undisputable. The key here is Germany needed not only some of the Soviet oil: it needed all of its oil, and then some more.

Posted by: vk | Sep 10 2018 12:50 utc | 77

That Hichens tweet is standard pro-Nazi garbage expounded to excuse Nazi crimes. Not a surprise that there are extremist Nazi supporters in the UK in 2018.

The Daily Mail link at least avoids that level of lying. But given the Daily Mail’s record of extremism mixed with gossip it’s best to avoid that crap.

Will Moon of Alabama next post the Nazi imagery of George Soros as an overtly Jewish puppet master? (Yes, I’ve seen such posts on websites that most certainly understand that Nazi Germany started the war and inflicted the Holocaust on Jews and Roma in Europe in the early mid-1940s.)

If you read the Daily Mail link, not just the tweet, Hichens is clearly expressing his father’s angst at loss of British power.

Now, Hitchens is delusional to imply that anyone ever believed that Britain fought World War Two to save Jews in Europe. And the fact that he pretends that’s one of the “myths” is a sign of his desperation. Such desperation be par for the course for the likes of extreme right in the UK.

It’s a pretty safe bet that somewhere, not necessarily on Twitter, Hichens has said inflammatory things about UK citizens of Pakistani, Indian, African, and Caribbean origins.

Posted by: Jay | Sep 10 2018 12:52 utc | 78

The US Is a Mental Patient in a Russian Straitjacket

""It is a world in transition to not just genuine multipolarity, we are already living in multi-polar reality, but to a world where the United States is effectively checked in its attempts to project power into Eurasia. The world where it is reduced to merely calling names, hurling insults, and doing provocations–because it cannot do anything else.""

""But I do have my own question: do orderlies in the asylum get offended, when overpowering the violent patient and restraining it to the bed, by this patient’s insults and resistance? I don’t think so–one does not get offended by a violent mental patient.""

--------

I think this is best personified by Nikki Haley. She acts like a power crazed three year old who needs an adult in the room. (Personified by the way by the Syrian ambassador to the UN)

Posted by: financial matters | Sep 10 2018 13:11 utc | 79

Ashley Albanese @ 73
Not anti English just anti madness ! Come on in, you'l like it. It's reality .

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 10 2018 13:31 utc | 80

Black, a Republican member of the Virginia State Senate, has recently returned from Syria, where he met with Syrian President Bashar Assad and discussed recent developments in the country.
....
The problem is that he is surrounded by the deep state. We use the term to refer to the elements of the CIA, the State Department, to a smaller extent to the Defense Department, some members of Congress, the Senate. Not all Senators, of course, but certain key people. John McCain was a good example. And then we had those think tanks which were typically funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, places like that. They may have a dozen people and their job is to write articles that undermine secular governments and lead to their overthrow.

Staged Gas Attacks & US Shortcomings: US Senator Tells Sputnik About Syria Trip

Posted by: virgile | Sep 10 2018 13:32 utc | 81

On the evening of February 13, 1945, a series of Allied firebombing raids began against the German city of Dresden, reducing the “Florence of the Elbe” to rubble and flames, and killing as many as 135,000 people. It was the single most destructive bombing of the war — and all the more horrendous because little, if anything, was accomplished strategically, since the Germans were already on the verge of surrender.

In remembrance and protest, I present this first hand, eyewitness account by survivor Margaret Freyer which I found here

https://spad1.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/eyewitness-the-bombing-of-dresden-14-february-1945/

And which I think does justice to the unspeakable horror forced on over a million unarmed German citizens and refugees by the governments of (firstly) Great Britain under Winston Churchill and (secondly) the USA, under Franklin D. Roosevelt.

I cannot condemn these men and their governments enough, even though 73 years have now passed since this terror was perpetrated on innocent souls.

Posted by: Aras | Sep 10 2018 13:34 utc | 82

B, please write an article about the Nazi riots in Germany and links between the nazis/neo-nazis, Pegida, BVS, NSU, the police, Bundeswehr, and right-wing politicians in the mainstream parties.

Rioting in Germany Exposes the Growing Power of the Far Right

The BVS (German domestic spy entity) appears to be riddled with Nazis and with close connections to right-wing politicians of the main parties (especially CDU/CSU) as the scandal of the deliberately destroyed NSU documents and the years-long NSU scandals showed, but the BVS itself was directly derived from and staffed by Hitler's intelligence services and their progeny.

Posted by: BM | Sep 10 2018 13:35 utc | 83

@Greece

You're a numpty. Take some more acid if you wanna see a flying-mind-machine. You'll see a lot of other far out things too, all probably more real than your UFOs.

@ All

I have read so many versions of WWII I honestly don't know which to believe. Maybe a bit of them all. Revising history is only to be expected, but either way, I sincerely condemn all the instigators of War Inc, not just the losers. Good luck to anybody willing to trek through a few lifetimes of study to arrive at a similar conclusion. And besides, for the most part, despite their pretty disgusting history, I find most Brits to be fairly open minded about it all. The Japanese, on the other hand, have some very serious introspection to do before arriving at anything close to the truth concerning their war crimes last century. Cultural cognitive dissonance is something we are all guilty of...

Posted by: dan | Sep 10 2018 13:41 utc | 84

Let's take a poll!

Which of these will happen in the next 6 years, with or without the distraction of a Trump impeachment?

(a) Retreat like Nixon did, so the retreat could be blamed not on the empire's weakness but on domestic squabble or left-wingers (now right-wingers). But, where will the Dotard retreat from: Syria? Korea? Elsewhere?
(b) Escalate the current war, into an official WW3. But, where will the Dotard attack: Russia in Syria? Iran? South China Sea?
(c) Give Americans real austerity by subordinating the dollar to another currency that isn't printed as easily (SDR, cryptocurrency), thus dooming American serfs to the fate their rulers imposed everywhere else they could.
(d) Other?
(e) No big changes in the next 6 years. Just more of the same.

My vote? I really don't know.

Posted by: dumbass | Sep 10 2018 13:55 utc | 85

Posted by: Jay | Sep 10, 2018 8:52:52 AM | 80

I think you misinterpret the tweet. WWII might have been constricted to a European war if Britain had not decided to "defend Poland" but let Russia and Germany/Austria duke it out amongst themselves. And if it had not relied on the US as an ally.

It might have worked for Britain and its empire. We will never know. The empire was obsolete anyway. But in the second world war the empire helped Britain to fight the war.

To win a war does not mean you win the peace.
Britain has paid off the last tranche of its war debt of 21 billion pound from WW2 this century.
The United States sided with Western Germany. Its debt was cut and restructured to 15 billion marks in the London debt conference of 1953, with repayment tied on the amount of exports.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 10 2018 14:21 utc | 86

Consortium News has published a Memorandum from VIPS to President Trump (ht SST)

The situation is even more volatile because Kremlin leaders are not sure who is calling the shots in Washington. This is not the first time that President Putin has encountered such uncertainty (see brief Appendix below). This is, however, the first time that Russian forces have deployed in such numbers into the area, ready to do battle. The stakes are very high.

. . .

The best way to assure Mr. Putin that you are in control of U.S. policy toward Syria would be for you to seek an early opportunity to speak out publicly, spelling out your intentions. If you wish wider war, Bolton has put you on the right path.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 10 2018 14:49 utc | 87

Of the make-believe excuses submitted by modern US leaders to encourage "war" (the massacre of defenseless civilians) one of their favorite go-to reasons is that:

"The enemy is harboring terrorists." or "the enemy provides a safe-haven for terrorists".

Sometimes, they name the terrorists. "Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc."

But they're frustrated with Syria.

They don't want to go near the "harboring terrorists safe haven" theme.

Because, of course, it is "FUKUSi" which is harboring terrorists in Idlib.

Personally, I think they could still do it.

No, maybe not. It would offer such low-hanging fruit that any MSM "reporter" would probably call them on it.

So all they got to run with is Assad and gas.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Sep 10 2018 15:46 utc | 88

I enjoyed my travel to Xinjiang this summer. While definitely a heavily policed state (which is understandable after the riots), I saw no intention of the Chinese government to (at least overtly) "remove any devotion to Islam", as the NYT claims.

Posted by: Maracatu | Sep 10 2018 16:29 utc | 89

The Japanese, on the other hand, have some very serious introspection to do before arriving at anything close to the truth concerning their war crimes last century. Cultural cognitive dissonance is something we are all guilty of...
Posted by: dan | Sep 10, 2018 9:41:02 AM | 86

Talk of cognitive dissonance ...

Many years ago I new some young Japanese students in Europe, all from very privileged families (i.e. they presumably went to good schools). They knew all about Adolf Hitler, Anna Franck, Rosa Luxemburg, and in detail about Hitler's atrocities which they had studied at school. They also knew that Hitler liked the music of Brückner, therefore Brückner is bad and anybody who listens to Brückner is implied to be bad, according to them. But when asked about atrocities committed by the Japanese they were blissfully ignorant and said the Japanese soldiers were totally beyond reproach, there were no accusations against them!

There they were making special trips to visit the house of Anna Franck and of Rosa Luxemburg, and having so much interest in Hitler's atrocities!

Fortunately the Germans are at least aware of the past, though I fear history may repeat itself under Frau Adolf Merkel or under the AfD.

Posted by: BM | Sep 10 2018 16:37 utc | 90

@89 ff.. that sounds about right...

@90 maracatu... thanks for sharing that..

Posted by: james | Sep 10 2018 16:40 utc | 91

Jay @80

You obviously know nothing about Peter Hitchens.You are mistaken in almost everything you think that Hitchens said/stands for.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Hitchens is pro-Nazi and a racist.

You may have some grounds to believe that Hitchens is mistaken in his view that the British public believe Britain fought the war to save the Jews; however, this view is likely to prevalent in the younger generations.

Hitchens does raise the question of why Britain fought the war? It wasn't to save the Jews (or any of the other groups that were subject to Nazi persecution) and it wasn't to save Poland. Hitchen's view is that the British government fully expected Germany to come to terms when faced with the British and French armies and weren't really expecting to fight Germany (and weren't up for it); which goes some way to explaining the debacle that ended in Dunkirk.

I suspect you believe that Britain fought the war for altruistic reasons, but in that you are completely mistaken.

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 10 2018 16:54 utc | 92

@ Posted by: dan | Sep 10, 2018 9:41:02 AM | 86

That's not a surprise at all. WWII is still a very recent event, and there's no "central archive" to serve as a guide. Only recently has the Soviet archives about the war been open, and they are very revealing.

But, as a rule of thumb, Westerners learn about the European theater of the WWII from the lenses of the German generals (mainly, post facto written memoirs). The British have their own version they teach in school, as does the Japanese (who have a very falsified version of the event). But the general narrative (i.e. that the Wehrmacht was very efficient, that the Red Army was very innefficient, that the USSR only won because they had an horde of soldiers which only fought because their families were taken hostage etc.) comes from the German generals memoirs. The USA also teaches a version where the USSR, even with its population advantage, only won because of Lend Lease (an hypothesis based on only one citation from a Soviet general, in a very informal context!).

With the Soviet archives open, WWII suddenly made much more sense. It wasn't that ideological madness between two crazy dicators the Cold War painted it. Not surprisingly, the official narrative inflated a lot the real thing.

Posted by: vk | Sep 10 2018 17:26 utc | 93

94

With the Soviet archives open, WWII suddenly made much more sense. It wasn't that ideological madness between two crazy dicators the Cold War painted it. Not surprisingly, the official narrative inflated a lot the real thing.

You must be joking.

Molotov's note on German atrocities in occupied Soviet territories

Posted by: somebody | Sep 10 2018 17:48 utc | 94

With this Hitchens mini debate perhaps this maybe relevent ? What family does he work for ?
https://futiledemocracy.wordpress.com
/2013/10/01/my-dear-fuhrer-a-quick-history-of-daily-mail-fascism/amp/U

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 10 2018 18:52 utc | 95

Opps messed up the link
https://futiledemocracy.wordpress.com/2013/10/01/my-dear-fuhrer-a-quick-history-of-daily-mail-fascism/amp/

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 10 2018 19:20 utc | 96

Mark2 @96

You're trying to suggest that Peter Hitchens is a fascist? That simply isn't true.

You're trying to suggest that the Daily Mail is worst than other British Newspapers? That is no longer the case; the Guardian is far worst.

You're trying to suggest that Daily Mail reader's are fascist? The overwhelming scepticism of on Daily Mail Online readers comments to the Government narrative on the Skripal's incident and the (then) proposed missile attack on Syria shows that this is not the case.

Peter Hitchen's has been a strong advocate over the lack of evidence showing Russia/Syrian involvement in the Douma "Chemical Weapons" incident. Probably, the only establishment figure to dare to openly take this position and had to endure a whole load of "leftists(?)" attacking for not blaming Assad/Russia.

There is a lot that you can disagree with Peter Hitchen's about but he's not close minded and HE IS NOT A FASCIST!

Posted by: ADKC | Sep 10 2018 19:24 utc | 97

I will just comment on the various analyses of WWII that I think we had more dedicated journalists reporting back in those days because the oligarchs did not have total control over the media as they do now. Admittedly there was war propaganda during the war years, and some countries continued that but in the period soon after the independence of the media was much more a factor than it is now. Journalists had more freedom to report what they were seeing. These days all media is corrupt or corruptible, as evidenced the current inroads being made upon the internet itself.

The United States has freedom of the press written into its Constitution. Would that its government had supported that Constitutional right, which I take to be also applicable as freedom from oligarchical control. Without such a freedom enshrined in law, the people have no way of knowing whether what they are being told is what they need to hear.

I was a child in New Zealand at the beginning of WWII. What I know is that my father signed up early and went with the majority of fighting regiments from Australia and New Zealand, first to Greece where the Nazi's drove them back to their ships, and then to North Africa. There an uncle died and is buried in Tunisia. New Zealand remained vulnerable to invasion by the Japanese, until the US entered the war and had troops stationed very near my grandmother's house where my mother and I lived. Some of those handsome young men I remember also died in battles in the Pacific.

We were not invaded, but those were dark days to be a child nonetheless. My father left home when I was two weeks old. I didn't see him until I was nearly five. He was, I would guess, a changed man from the man my mother married; war is hell.

That's not the overarching history; that's my history.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 10 2018 19:42 utc | 98

ADKA @ 98
Mind control tends to be more suttle than that, perhaps all that you say re- Hitchens may be true ! But what these media do, is obeveously have journos popular to suck you in,like bait on a hook ! You follow them maybe identify with there overall views. But then the malignent evil mind behind the daily mail is subliminally drip drip feeding you Ther rationalised zenaphobic racist anti refugee mind numbing lies. To the point where they own your mind! You become dependent on them for your source of false reality. Trust me i'v studied this for 30years the mail is a major hub of British nazism !

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 10 2018 19:44 utc | 99

This so far has been a brilliant thread ! I'v learned a hell of a lot on a subject, that like it or not is about to impact on all of our life's ! We like to think we have some sort of influence on our life's and that of our loved ones . When war starts that is swept away like melting snow . If you were to track the rise of fascism over the last 10 yeasr on a graph paper you would see a steadily excelerating increase, to the point now where it's excelerating at an unstopable pace. It matters not what side you think you might like to take. We're all going to be the victem of it. If your young just bare in mind later your children may ask 'what did you do in the war daddy/ mummy' if of course you survive!!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 10 2018 20:10 utc | 100