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August 19, 2018

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2018-41

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 19, 2018 at 13:07 UTC | Permalink

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Northeast Syria? I think it's a slam dunk; U.S. loses after facing final defeat.
No leg to stand on; Kurds moving to Assad for secure territory they can call their own.
The U.S. once again selling them out...

Posted by: V | Aug 19 2018 14:03 utc | 1

What comes immediately to mind with the passing of still another 60's legend, Soul Sister #1 as she was accurately known back in the day, is how much of the lamestream media attention now belatedly seeks to compensate for our not recognizing the immortality of this legendary artist after her decade of subliminity on the R&B and Pop charts.

Aretha Franklin is the greatest Amerikkkan singer. Pyrrhiod. Pop, jazz, secular, gospel, whatever category you want to bandy about. D'uh. Sinatra? Presley? Cole? Cooke? Jolsen?(maybe Cooke coulda got there too, but he died too young and before the times would allow him to completely escape the "race music" prison), none of these can truly match up to Ms. Franklin's power, personality and creativity.

Yet strangely (or maybe predictably) she was never extolled in her proper place at the very top of rock n roll heaven while still living perhaps because at the height of her powers she was young, black and never seeking to fit into white stylistic straitjackets (admittedly she was not alone in this tendency, other musical innovators of the era such as Little Richard, Etta James and James Brown also set the commercial pop musical tone in a similar, more melotonic direction) worn by many of the successful crossover soul stars of the 60s, and maybe because she was a female, and not one embued with the requisite choreographed dance moves and processed caucasian beauty standards fetishized by Motown.

Listen to her version of the subtle anti-war themed "I Say a Little Prayer", a prim little pop standard of the sixties written and produced by Burt Bacharach and first made into a big hit by Dionne Warwick, also a singer and performer of immense skill. Then listen to Aretha's own version released not much more than a year later.

It's not that she tinkers with the song's musical arrangement or its complex changes in tempo, it's how she takes basically the same material and utterly transforms it into a tour de force, especially through use of her trademarked call and response vocal chemistry with her sisters singing back-up as the song hastend and builds to it's emotional climax.

Then read Trump's twitter "tribute" (she was great or something mostly because she worked for him, blah blah racistic blah) and shudder to think this is where we now are in Amerikkka 50 years on.

RIP, Aretha. A change still gonna come.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 19 2018 15:44 utc | 2

Oh, and thank you from the depth of my whitey soul for helping save my life with your sublime music on the radio in 1967.

Too good to be forgotten.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 19 2018 15:54 utc | 3

Today (19 aug. 2018) The Guardian decided to recycle, once more, the "Venezuelan exodus" fake news. The trigger for this was the alleged expulsion of "thousands of Venezuelans" from the border town Pacaraima (Brazil), after an alleged assassination of a Brazilian restaurant.

The only video of this incident (the expulsion), actually shows some dozen Brazilians torching some five to ten tents in what appears to be the Venezuelan side of the border.

Apart from this video, there's only another one, from months ago, shows a manifestation of some Brazilians in a completely desert border between both countries. The Guardian, highlighting the alleged "mass exodus" to Equador (a country which doesn't even borders Venezuela), show only one picture of some hundreds tops Venezuelans in the border with Colombia. They are relatively well dressed for South American standards and are certainly not starving. One of the interviewed in Colombia openly calls for the "bombing of Miraflores"; another explicitly calls for "foreign intervention". They are clearly rightists who lost the civil war.

Alas, the numbers of The Guardian (2.3 million since 2015; 500,000 to Equador this year alone) are old and fake. They actually come from a single source: an NGO called "Voice of the Venezuelan Diaspora Observatory". This article (from March 2018!) clears the fallacy of the "Venezualan exodus".

Posted by: vk | Aug 19 2018 15:55 utc | 4

Did Saudi Arabia threatened Canada with a 9/11-type operation?

Posted by: nhs | Aug 19 2018 16:30 utc | 5

** NHS Alert** for new or unaware visitors: nhs is a troll; there is no need for "URL shorteners" when one uses the "A HREF" tag.

Click on nhs links at your peril!

Posted by: Ort | Aug 19 2018 17:43 utc | 6

4 - bad reporting from Latin America

I had noticed some dicey numbers a couple of months ago re: migration from Venezuela. According to the figures, something like a third of the population of the country had already left. That's about as inaccurate as the UN's refugee numbers from Syria.

The BBC should get a prize for their story from Nicaragua last April, which describes how protesters against modest pension reforms and journalists were "set upon by men wearing motorcycle helmets." These men were then identified as "government supporters", although the story featured a photo of fleeing looters, men wearing motorcycle helmets.... hmmmmm.

Posted by: jayc | Aug 19 2018 18:38 utc | 7

Venezuela and its state-owned oil will not be tolerated.

"Self-determination" means Capitalism, privatization and multinational corporate control.

Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 19 2018 19:38 utc | 8

@ donkeytale with the tribute to Aretha Franklin....THANKS!

I stream public "radio" KNKS out of Tacoma/Seattle area and they have a 6 hour blues segment Saturday and Sunday 6-12pm. They played a lot of her music last night and I expect will again tonight for those interested.

The follow up I want to add to the donkeytale description of her life was that the DJ last night said she had a child at 12 and another at 14 when she was first recorded. That is one of the reasons she was shunned by American media.

I also want to repeat the donkeytale attribute of Aretha's capability; every song she sang was her rendition of the original if not her own and the virtuosity she shows in doing the covers of others songs is amazing.

Those that try to glean personal connection to her for their own aggrandizement just show themselves further as the vacuous grifters they truly are.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 19 2018 20:38 utc | 9

Zios mount Canadian Corbyn-style attack on Trudeau, Palestinian activist.

Even though Justin Trudeau is about as pro-Israel as it is possible to be next to his predecessor Stephen Harper, nonetheless there are indications Canada's powerful Israel lobby may be gunning for him as evidenced in the recent attack by Conservative Senator and Trilateral Commissioner, Linda Frum, on one of his Muslim MPs and a Palestinian-Canadian community activist for 'Jew-hatred'.

Warmington: Liberal MP Apologizes For Handing Out Dubious Honours

"First it was Liberal MP Iqra Khalid being called out by B'nai Brith Canada for honouring a person they feel has pushed anti-Semitism. Then pictures surfaced of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau shaking hands with Amin El-Maoued, making people wonder what the heck is going on with this government.

That was followed by Conservative Senator Linda Frum getting involved - and, suddenly, some common-sense started to show up in the story...But Frum tweeted 'Prime Minister: When you embrace individuals who are known Jew haters, who equate Jews to Nazis, and you invite them to your private garden parties, you stoke the politics of division.

The pressure on Trudeau seemed to work, hence his 180-degree turn..."

Senator Linda Frum

Israel lobby/ Trilateral Commission

Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 19 2018 20:52 utc | 10

In 1930 they burned books. Today they block your posts.

Posted by: Passerby | Aug 19 2018 21:36 utc | 11

Passerby @11:

In the 1940s, people were tattooed. Today people are chipped.

Posted by: Ian | Aug 19 2018 22:36 utc | 12

Passerby @11--

Yes, but not just your posts; you get your social media communications platform shutdown so you can no longer publish in that milieu. Eva Bartlett"s thread on the topic. Better read it before she gets shutdown too. Moon of Alabama could easily be next.

The 21st Century version of Fahrenheit 451 has arrived!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 19 2018 22:38 utc | 13

Passerby @ 11, Ian @ 12:

In the 1940, people were forced to submit to being tattooed.

These days, people are falling over themselves to be micro-chipped.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 19 2018 22:57 utc | 14

Social Media Censorship prompts call to extend USA's Civil Rights Act.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 19 2018 23:11 utc | 15

I dont use twitter or facebook for news or comments. Many blogs require FB to comment, and many blogs either heavily censor comments or dont allow them. Perhaps as a result of social media there are few who comment on blogs who are not astroturfers or thoroughly brainwashed or insane.

From my view most blogs self censor content or seem to be unduly influenced (carrot or stick)

Books are also problematic. Too much truth causes authors to have problems publishing or distributing them. Or they are way over priced by the disyributor to discourage purchases.The older ones go out of print earlier. Fortunately some of these older ones are available for free online as pdfs, but only some of them

I suspect those of us who use kindle and the like will one day find our librarys disappeared when the PTB decide they shoukd be flushed down the memory hole. I do make sure to try and get a paper version of important books or at least a pdf file that cant be wiped free of an internet connection.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 19 2018 23:46 utc | 16

Today, August 19, marks the 65th anniversary of the day in 1953 that Prime Minister Mossadegh of Iran was arrested and deposed by the CIA at the behest of the British and the BP oil company, which had been extorting Iran's oil since 1908. The coup, code-named Operation Ajax, allowed the Shah Reza to return from exile and become the stooge of the west, until he in turn was deposed in 1973.

That's 110 years of imperialist attempted and actual strong-arming by the west against Iran, and all for hydrocarbons. I doubt if anyone in Tehran has forgotten any of this history.

John Wight has a retrospective of this at RT: 1953 Iran coup – a crime authored in London and Washington

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 19 2018 23:53 utc | 17

@17 - 1973 = 1979

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 20 2018 0:00 utc | 18

Psychohistorian - a small example of Franklin's cultural influence comes from the 1971 song she wrote called "Rock Steady."

Powered by an insistent, repetitive funk rhythm, she delivers this impeccably phrased line throughout the song:

"Let's call this song exactly what it is" with the back-up singers ending the line by chanting "what it is, what it is, what it is."

I recall within days after the song began regularly pulsating over the airwaves, the white kids at our high school in LA were greeting each other with: "Hey bro, what it is?"

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 20 2018 0:06 utc | 19

Zios mount Canadian Corbyn-style attack on Trudeau, Palestinian activist.

Even though Justin Trudeau is about as pro-Israel as it is possible to be next to his predecessor Stephen Harper, nonetheless there are indications Canada's powerful Israel lobby may be gunning ...

Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 19, 2018 4:52:23 PM

So now we will treat Trudeau like Corbyn?

Naaaay! Good Corbyn is a dead Corbyn, Trudeau is just a boy that have to be whipped from time to time to maintain his good behavior.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 20 2018 0:15 utc | 20


For 30 years I collected social and political and history books of the kind you would want to read in retumirement, a sort of Socrates library. Now starting to read them, I asked the librarian if they would put them in circulation if I donated them She took me to a storage room, literally not kidding, old hardbound books like you wish you had in a library. She said, these are going to the shredders.

They buy whatever the book publishers tell them is popular. Their job is to fill the library with patrons, not fill the library with good books. Best you can do is get a student ID card with fake address then before you spend money on tuition, get a library card, check out all the old books until they seize your card, lol.

I had a beer last night with a guy from Cali, telling me that Trump is a hologram, not like Princess Laia, but like, pick your poison, Rodham and Trump were Janis-headed holograms from Deep State. This is the Bain 'bust out' Final Solution.

Trump/Rodham and the $4,500B Red/Blue UniParty is running an -$800B deficit and Private Fed Bank is skimming -$500B in 'debt' service off -$22,000B in wholly illegal, onerous, odious, synthetic Wall Street gambling debts and unfunded oil wars.

Trump/Rodham and the $4,500B Red/Blue UniParty is just stress positioning and water boarding to get our Teen Spirit emotional and psychological buy-in to be willing debt serfs.

New American Century Potato Eaters. Wait, I gotta go. I hear someone playing Nearer My God to Thee.

E pluribus now get back to work.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 20 2018 0:24 utc | 21

Pft @ 16:

Sad to say, Chipnik @ 21 is right. The stock of non-fiction in public libraries is decreasing in quality if not quantity. Choosing and buying material (whether print material, digital or in some other format) and even cataloguing are increasingly being outsourced to publishing companies. To buy one decent history or political book means having to buy it as part of a package which includes rubbish books as well. This is to say nothing of decreasing state government financial support for public libraries where I live (New South Wales state, Australia).

FWIW, I used to work in my local public library and still know a few people working there nearly 20 years after I left. Even then (in the 1990s), the non-fiction section had more fiction than the fiction section did. Now it's reached the point where the fiction section has more non-fiction than the non-fiction - because at least fiction writers (I hope) have been taught in creative writing class that they should write about what they know and/or do research.

All I have to do is look at the history non-fiction books (in particular, books on Russian history) and see what new titles have arrived. Without exception, they are all obsessed with bashing the current Russian President as a sinister malevolent Lord Voldemort (Vlademort?) presence. They are nearly all written by the usual suspects as well, be they Masha Gessen, Karen Darwisha [rest in purgatory], Ed Lucas (off the top of my head). Go to look at the travel section and it's wall-2-wall Lonely Planet guides, same as in the bookshops.

Even book publishing is part of the problem: most book publishers these days are owned by the same corporations that own mainstream news media outlets. Who remembers HarperCollins? They're owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 20 2018 0:46 utc | 22

@ 2 & 3: Nice tribute and oh so true. Thanks..

Posted by: ben | Aug 20 2018 1:00 utc | 23

I defy even a Koch brother to keep still listening to this:

The Warwick version of I Say a Little Prayer reached #4 Billboard Hot 100 in 1967:

Slightly slower live rendition of Aretha's Prayer, which reached #10 Billboard Hot 100 in 1968:

Bonus Aretha on a mission from God:

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 20 2018 1:11 utc | 24


Thanks for info. My closest library is all chinese so I am unaware of the state of US librarys. I hope big city and university libraries are in better shape, but thats probably not true.

I likewise have collected my own library and have time to read them now for as long as my aging eyes hold out. One thing for sure is I discovered how oblivious I was of events occuring during most of my adulthood. Part of that was pre-internet and decades of being an expat. The other was I used to read 4-5 newspapers a day, and watched CNN/BBC religiously when it came available out here. . I would still be blisssfully ignorant if not for events in 2001, although it still took me a couple of years to figure out that the world was not as I imagined it was.

Not sure I will ever figure it all out. There is a danger of creating ones own fictitious reality, and confirmation bias is always lurking.

But I Figure its best to read what they dont seem to want you to read (if you can) and vice versa, but you still have to know what they want you to believe so you can check out further what you are being told to disbelieve. Always be aware of the unknown unknowns , which are not spoken of, and perhaps beyond reach to all but a select few.

If nothing else it helps pass the time

Posted by: Pft | Aug 20 2018 1:12 utc | 25

Pft 25
You've come to a better place on the internet for new/info. I have my own library, too. The local (US, Alabama) library has plenty of books but they tend to be by mainstream authors. Books considered conspiracy or showing alternate views of history/wars are not usually found there. And if they're not checked out after a certain time, they'll wind up sold/discards. Newspapers are trying to imitate USA Today with big pix, lots of white space, but a little bit of extra beyond AP, NYT, McClatchy, LAT. And when you get it, the news has been at their website for several days.

Posted by: Curtis | Aug 20 2018 1:24 utc | 26

Speaking of books, a couple fiction books I recommend for when non fiction gets too heavy

"A Terrible Country" by Keith Gessen. Recently published . A story set in Moscow. Comes with the obligatory Putin bashing and the title must have helped but I felt it was half hearted. It really does not interfere much with the story. Never having been to Russia I like to think it provides a bit of a glimpse as to life there in the Putin era

Neil Shutes "A Town Like Alice". Published over 60 years ago. Easily one of the top 10 fiction books I have read. Hard to imagine nobody making a movie or mini series of this. He has half a dozen other books worth reading and most available free online as pdf's

Posted by: Pft | Aug 20 2018 1:24 utc | 27

@27 A Town Like Alice was made into a movie in 1956 (with Virginia McKenna and Peter Finch) and again as a miniseries in 1981 (with Helen Morse and Bryon Brown).

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 20 2018 2:19 utc | 28


There is both a movie from 1956 and a TV mini-series from 1981 of "A Town Like Alice". Took 10 seconds to find them with an online search. It is an Australian classic.

Posted by: dynkyd | Aug 20 2018 2:20 utc | 29

Nevil Shutes' 'On The Beach' might be more topical in today's world (book and movie of course) - 1959 (Gregory Peck, Ava Gardner) and a remake in 2000.

Posted by: DM | Aug 20 2018 3:04 utc | 30

Grieved @17. And Secretary of State Pompeo announced the formation of the "Iran Action Group" “promote a brighter future for the Iranian people.”

"When AP's Matt Lee noted that the announcement of the Iran Action Group was taking place on the anniversary of the 1953 US-backed coup, and asked if this suggested a desire for “regime change,” Hook responded that the timing is “pure coincidence”

Again, I am not a believer in the Grand Coincidence Theory of Geopolitics.

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 20 2018 3:34 utc | 31

Max Blumenthal was on Max Keiser Report on RT 8/18/18
He reported on his experiences in Nicaragua (his reporting on what was really going on there are worth reading/watching). But I think he was there to talk about internet censorship.

And he managed to frame it around his “soft Zionist” narrative.

“My thoughts on Alex Jones is that, after 9/11 there was a lot of questioning about what was behind this attack… and questioning of the official version. I think there was an illegitimate side of the Truther Movement, which was interested in internal explosions in the World Trade Center and false flags, and there was a legitimate side that was interested in the Saudi connection, which we validated and asking legitimate questions about blowback, things like that.

“Alex Jones’ role was to eliminate the legitimate side… take everyone, and take all that energy that was questioning the Bush Administration and the official line and move it to the right. He started interjecting anti-immigrant vitriol into the kind of Truther Movement, and just generally moved everyone to the right.

“I think it that sense he’s actually benefitted the Establishment.

“But at this point he’s been singled out kind of as the most prominent and chaos-causing ‘conspiracy theorist.’ So he’s the easiest target for Silicon Valley.”

So, Max once again promotes the Official Conspiracy Theory on 9/11, making room only for the deliberately installed “Easter Egg” of the “redacted 28 pages” to lead critical thinkers to the limited hangout of some of the people who wrote some of the checks, while scoffing at any deeper analysis of an event that was clearly years in the making, and required the collusion of the State and MSM.

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 20 2018 3:51 utc | 32

28/29 -thanks. I thought I had searched awhile back w/o results. Maybe dementia setting in :)

Posted by: Pft | Aug 20 2018 6:02 utc | 33

Daniel @32

"I think there was an illegitimate side of the Truther Movement, which was interested in internal explosions in the World Trade Center and false flags, and there was a legitimate side that was interested in the Saudi connection"

You are right. Its not one or the other in his quote, all three aspects were in play.

I do believe not coming to grips with 9/11 ensures nothing will change for the world

I am waiting for someone to claim Putin did it and that those responsible for the official theory were Putins agents whose aim was to bankrupt America in the GWOT and destroy our freedoms. Hmmmm...

Posted by: Pft | Aug 20 2018 6:15 utc | 34

Pft @ 34:

"I am waiting for someone to claim Putin did it ..."

Not impossible if Putin has his own TARDIS and is really The Master in disguise.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 20 2018 6:26 utc | 35

A topic that is often discussed here

Posted by: Mina | Aug 20 2018 7:02 utc | 36

I guess boycotting Apple didn't work.   Must be the 200+ trucks of munitions recently delivered to SDF.   US Embassy in Turkey comes under attack by unknown gunmen

Posted by: Ian | Aug 20 2018 8:01 utc | 37

I heard on the radio this morning that Britain is ceasing to finance the Syrian rebels in what are described as 'non-humanitarian' aid by the BBC, said to be aid for civil government, rebel police, that sort of thing. Although evidently we're not being told everything, it looks like it's being recognised that the writing is on the wall (yuk, I've used a Biblical metaphor).

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 20 2018 8:14 utc | 38

Which side are you on, Athens Syntagma Square, 28,29-6-2011. M4v. YouTube
Warning it's graphic !
This is what the sharp end of dealing with western banks looks like !
Yes people that look like you or me. It's not a choice it's on it's way. Turkey next you and me very soon. Time to wake up.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 20 2018 9:14 utc | 39

"You could soon spend 10 years in Australian jail if you don’t hand over your phone password to cops."

Posted by: partizan | Aug 20 2018 9:30 utc | 40

“[prior to World War I the inhabitant of London] could secure…cheap and comfortable means of transport to any country or climate without passport or other formality, could dispatch his servant to the neighboring office of a bank for such supply of the precious metals as might seem convenient, and could then proceed abroad to foreign quarters, without knowledge of their religion, language, or customs, bearing coined wealth upon his person, and would consider himself greatly aggrieved and much surprised at the least interference. But most important of all, he regarded this state of affairs as normal, certain, and permanent, expect in the direction of further improvement…” (Keynes, The Economic consequences of the peace, pp. 11-12)

Mind-boggling. This was hundred years ago, perception is that we have made progress in one century. Do we, try this today?

Posted by: partizan | Aug 20 2018 9:49 utc | 41

Written version of the story I referred to @38

Britain to axe funding for scheme supporting Syrian opposition

Pretty decisive, I think. It'll be getting harder for the Trumpies and the US Deep State to hang out in the Jazira (Syria beyond the Euphrates). We're moving fast into "End-of-War" mode.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 20 2018 10:28 utc | 42

Zios mount Canadian Corbyn-style attack on Trudeau, Palestinian activist.
Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 19, 2018 4:52:23 PM | 10

Presumably provoked by his FM's recent kind comments on the Saudi regime?

Posted by: BM | Aug 20 2018 10:42 utc | 43

For 30 years I collected social and political and history books of the kind you would want to read in retumirement, a sort of Socrates library. Now starting to read them, I asked the librarian if they would put them in circulation if I donated them She took me to a storage room, literally not kidding, old hardbound books like you wish you had in a library. She said, these are going to the shredders.
Best you can do is get a student ID card with fake address then before you spend money on tuition, get a library card, check out all the old books until they seize your card, lol.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 19, 2018 8:24:22 PM | 21

I am quite sure most libraries would be more than happy to donate any books they do not intend to keep on the shelves.

Posted by: BM | Aug 20 2018 10:50 utc | 44

Even book publishing is part of the problem: most book publishers these days are owned by the same corporations that own mainstream news media outlets. Who remembers HarperCollins? They're owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.
Posted by: Jen | Aug 19, 2018 8:46:54 PM | 22

Maybe the best solution would be to switch the categories "Fiction" and "Non-Fiction" to the other way around. Medical "Science" (more accurately pseudo-science) is a prime example:

Editor In Chief Of World’s Best Known Medical Journal: Half Of All The Literature Is False

Dr. Richard Horton, the current editor-in-chief of the Lancet – considered to be one of the most well respected peer-reviewed medical journals in the world:
“The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.”

Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), which is considered to another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world, makes her view of the subject quite plain:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine”

(Both references from an article by Arjun Walia from, saved copy)

Posted by: BM | Aug 20 2018 11:17 utc | 45

60 Minutes yesterday had an episode on the alleged 2017 Syrian gas attack. Pretty much propaganda. Said that the 2017 sarin sample matched SAA stockpiles and also mentioned the 2013 sarin attack, but forgot to mention that samples from that were different than the formulation in SAA stocks. The reporter did rhetorically "why would the Assad "dictatorship" use sarin when it would cause a backlash?", but the answer was to kill civilians. The report also mentioned Syria's version that it was a stolen munition set off via an IED, but then had a UN official saying Syrian rebels never had access to any chemical weapons, but then forgot to mention this:
It is amazing how some reporters get tarred and feathered for dubious reporting (Dan Rather), while other propaganda pieces skate by with no criticism.

I anxiously await 60 Minutes follow-up piece on who armed the Sunni jihadis in Syria. /s

Posted by: Schmoe | Aug 20 2018 11:20 utc | 46

An interesting comment I found recently:

The truth is this per military back channels: It was none other than NSA/Mike Rogers, Mike Flynn and others in their group enlisted Donald Trump to run for president. He agreed upon being insured that he would not be assassinated.

They watched the elections that night. The Hillary gang with Google, Brennan and others tried to steal the election that night. Obama received a very stern phone call that night from someone on our military command to let him know that they were watching them trying to fudge a win for Hillary. Obama in no other terms was told that our military would do the unthinkable if that occurred ordering him to stop. That is why she hesitated to concede hoping that it could still end in her favor.

Check the source for the context. Whilst an unconfirmed rumour, it would seem to explain why Trump has surrounded himself with military. It obviously has implications for interpreting Trump's actions and intentions. It would also help explain the otherwise incomprehensible - given the certainty that Team Clinton were massively manipulating the election and the relatively close result, why didn't they go a tiny bit further to push the result the other way? If the rumour is true, the most likely answer would be that after the claimed phone call to Obama they decided to make the result as close as possible to undermine the mandate of Trump - in other words without the manipulation Trump would have had a landslide.

Given the amount of hatred of Clinton and the way she was openly manipulating the vote, I was always sceptical that it would have really been so close.

(Disclaimer: I am not pro-Trump by the way, just anti-Clinton)

Posted by: BM | Aug 20 2018 11:40 utc | 47

BM @47:

I wonder what they mean by the "unthinkable", military coup?

Posted by: Ian | Aug 20 2018 11:52 utc | 48

Is this a way by Latinamerican countries to invade Venezuela?

Brazil send troops to border

Posted by: Zanon | Aug 20 2018 14:41 utc | 49

Clinton/Bush drug running in Mena, murders, rapes, pedophilia, and the false meme, "When Clinton Lied, Nobody Died".

Clinton followed through on Reagan/Poppy Bush/Deep State Werks to wreck Yugoslavia via illegal NATO war killed thousands of (mostly Orthodox Christian) civilians. Again under the guise of humanitarian intervention.

Destroyed that nation and broke it up (Partitioning) into oppressed broken ethnic mini states.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Aug 20 2018 15:10 utc | 50

Ian @ 48

"unthinkable" here clearly means a military coup. I don't think any other interpretation is possible.

Posted by: BM | Aug 20 2018 15:35 utc | 51

@ BM | Aug 20, 2018 7:40:46 AM | 47

With all respect: doesn't this have a too strong smell of Qanon psy op nonsense? Too many conflicting narratives arounds, not enough facts that can be proven. Not your fault, though.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Aug 20 2018 16:13 utc | 52


So Marky Mark doesn't have another spaz attack

I don't believe in numerology but the Kabbalists do, and if you want a clear and present view operation, look at poor Kanye, his vitriolic live attack on the Kabbalists resulting in his immediate 'hospitalization for stress' after which he was discharged with his hair, and his brain, 'bleached' by electro-shock.

Today his is a blank-staring no-facial-expression acolytism of Trump and the Kabbalist Zionist ex-Soviet Mafiya, which *all pan media* refer to only as 'Russia', instead of 'ex-Soviet Criminal Zionist Mafiya', because those Kabbalists that we don't believe in have power over the world that's collapsing around us, and ironically, like the 9/11 cover story itself, that two massive steel spires simply collapsed in on themselves. Magic!

"Hey, Ollie! The Ayatollah wants more guns! Step on it!"

¿How about a war profits tax on those US gun running companies, a war profits tax on the US, England and German companies that sold Saddam WMDs, and a war profits tax on the Ukrainian Kabbalists that sold Kim Jung Un the old Soviet warheads and surplus rocket motors!?

Instead, the twin pillars of what we all refer to as civilization are coming down.

Kabbalist Mafiya, Trump Front Man, Empire

1. where tax cuts shifted billions up to the wealthy elite

2. where tax cuts shifted billions to the fattest corporations

3. where the budget shifted billions to the incorrigible Pentagon

4. where the crumbling domestic infrastructure and education rots away

5. where the once great middle class tweets itself into oblivion

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 20 2018 16:34 utc | 53

BM @47

That was initially my thinking too. That DJT was "enlisted" to run for President by a faction of the Deep State.

But I changed my thinking when it became clear to me that:

Obama was an establishment stooge ("Change You Can Believe In"?)

Sanders was a sheepdog

Kissinger had hinted at MAGA after victory of Donbas rebels in 2014

Trump-Obama-Sanders-Kissinger were all connected to Hillary

The establishment's thumb-on-the-scales is clear in hindsight:

- free publicity for Trump;

- no other "populist" among the 18 other Republican contenders;

- email scandal timed perfectly to ensure that there could be no other Democratic candidate

- 'kiss of death' of establishment support fans hatred for Hillary

>> Blatent (and not well-hidden) DNC-Hillary collusion PLUS

. . . Hillary gives DWS a top position in the campaign

. . . Hillary doesn't give Sanders (with millions of young, dedicated followers) a prominent role (she chooses a nobody for VP)

>> 'fix is in' meeting on tarmac and Comey's giving Hillary a pass (no "intention")

Soon after winning the election, Trump announced that there would not be any further investigation/prosecuting of Hillary. This quick "forgiveness" is strange after such a contentious race and contrary to Trump's vain and spiteful character.

Also consider (in no particular order):

>> Trump's faux populist Presidency is so closely modeled after Obama's - right down to the "11-dimensional chess" moves touted by Obamabots and Trumptards

>> Hillary was first to question Obama's qualifications for office but Trump carried the ball further with the Birther Movement. In this way he proved to be a Clinton loyalist and surrogate.

>> Trump has governed in a way that was very much like one might expect of Centrist Hillary.

>> Hillary has too much 'baggage' to govern effectively, and she added "Obama's legacy" to that baggage - ostensibly to appeal to blacks, a segment that she would win anyway.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 20 2018 16:40 utc | 54

John Gilbert, No. 10

You probably are aware of this, but MP Linda Frum is the sister of David Frum, the well-known neocon author of "the axis of evil", as well as a new favorite of the #resistance.

Posted by: sleepy | Aug 20 2018 16:55 utc | 55

@ Posted by: Zanon | Aug 20, 2018 10:41:41 AM | 49

Yes, Mattis has already confirmed, in a trip to Brazil, that the USA wants it to invade Venezuela.

But, it will probably be a skeleton formation by Brazil, because its armed forces are scrapped. Either the USA will invade Venezuela with Brazilian uniform (black ops) or it will provide some kind of massive "emergential" logistics support (as was the case in 1964).

However, Brazil is not the only pawn. Brazilian Secretary of Defense Raul Jungmann has just

Posted by: vk | Aug 20 2018 16:56 utc | 56

@ Posted by: Zanon | Aug 20, 2018 10:41:41 AM | 49

Yes, Mattis has already confirmed, in a trip to Brazil, that the USA wants it to invade Venezuela.

But, it will probably be a skeleton formation by Brazil, because its armed forces are scrapped. Either the USA will invade Venezuela with Brazilian uniform (black ops) or it will provide some kind of massive "emergential" logistics support (as was the case in 1964).

However, Brazil is not the only pawn. Brazilian Secretary of Defense Raul Jungmann has just flown to Colombia, under the official agenda of "border security". The true agenda will be the discussion of the invasion of Venezuela. Thing is, the post-coup rightist governments of South America, united under the umbrella of the "Lima Group", whose objective is to topple both Venezuela and Bolivia.

Posted by: vk | Aug 20 2018 16:56 utc | 57


Only because Sanders represents a vote-dividing threat in 2020, let's disabuse ourselves once and for all of Bernie, the Grand Master Polemist of Medicare 4 All and Guaranteed National Income! (applaud)

Bernie had one job to do in 2016: capture and hold the Left, so Hillary could jink Center-Right against the Republican Right.

There is no other explanation for Rodham's threat against Russia, than to rally the MidWest'Creeping Communists!' Deplorables to her side. She had to appear Right.

Then Bernie dutifully, (and without any Leftist preaching on her part), delivered the Left to Rodham! It was so transparent! He said, I am giving my votes to Hillary.

Hope and Chains!
Hope and Chains!
Hope and Chains!

¿Did you see Jesse Jackson smirking and high-fiving back stage after he tried the same Keep Hope Alive schtick? Keep that in mind this fall, and in 2020, if we make it that far. Bernie is Maduro. His job is to capture the Left, then keep them out of the winner's circle, held for The Chosen.

This is the Bainist Blue Team End of Days.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 20 2018 17:04 utc | 58

@10 john gilberts... i tend to see it as @20 piotr sees it..

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2018 17:07 utc | 59

Chipnik @ 53 opined :

1. where tax cuts shifted billions up to the wealthy elite

2. where tax cuts shifted billions to the fattest corporations

3. where the budget shifted billions to the incorrigible Pentagon

There, my friends, are the infamous "Deep State" folks..

4. where the crumbling domestic infrastructure and education rots away

5. where the once great middle class tweets itself into oblivion

And, 4&5 are the U$A today.

Succinct and brief. Kudos Chippy...

Posted by: ben | Aug 20 2018 18:41 utc | 60

@ Mark2 who seems to be promoting that the response to antisocial behavior be more antisocial behavior


Seems very counter productive to me

Why not try to take away the antisocial tools begetting such behavior?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 20 2018 20:31 utc | 61

The Russian Foreign Ministry also said that due to the “absolutely deconstructive” stance of the US one also shouldn’t expect any positive decisions on rebuilding Syria and return of refugees to the country from the UN Security Council.

"He reminded that following the talks between US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and UN Special Envoy for Syria, Staffan de Mistura, last week, Washington said that that “any discussion of reconstruction was premature absent a political solution” in Syria.

Lavrov pointed out that such demands are only put forward by the Americans for areas liberated from terrorist and controlled by the Syrian government in Damascus.

“As for the areas held by often non-constructive opposition forces, cooperating with the US… the restoration processes there is, on the contrary, in full swing. Furthermore, the US attracts a number of its allies to funding these activities,” he said.

According to the minister, Washington’s actions contradict the UN Security Council Resolution 2254 from 2015, which stressed the “critical need to build conditions for the safe and voluntary return of refugees… and the rehabilitation of affected area” in Syria."

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2018 20:36 utc | 62

usa state dept policy briefing from last thursday on iran.. it is quite the joke actually.. don't read it unless you want to laugh while being propagandized fully...

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2018 20:40 utc | 63

@49 Zanon

A couple of soldiers sent to the border doesn't count as pretext for an invasion.

Are you familiar with South Venezuela - the Gran Sabana from personnel experience? This is superb guerilla country only a bunch of complete whack jobs would want to invade and the further west (Amazon), north-west (Andes), east and north-east (Orinoco basin) you go the worse it gets for any invading force. Heck, even the coastal mountain range is no place to go for a conventional fighting force.

If a meaningful number of Venezuelans chose to fight such an endeavor the result would be Iraq to the power of 10, at least.

Posted by: Hmpf | Aug 20 2018 20:43 utc | 64

further to @63 on the thought of rebuilding syria - this from friday briefing on the topic -
"There is not going to be, by international agreement, reconstruction assistance to Syria unless the UN – not Moscow, not Washington, not any other capital, the UN – certifies, validates that a credible and irreversible political process is underway. That’s the door to getting what we believe the regime, the Russians very much want, which is international money flowing into the wreckage that is presently Syria."

in other words - we didn't get the regime change we wanted, so we are going to continue to hold out for the regime change we wanted by using the UN... unless...."a credible and irreversible political process is underway".... that is the key phrase right there..

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2018 20:53 utc | 65


What to do?

Sit there and suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or
by opposing them, end them?

If Iran stays put, the US will increase pressure, specially secondary ones.
It will come a day when Iranian Tankers are taken to the bottom by
"accidental" collisions such as was recently the case in the China Sea..

It is condemned to build a large tanker fleet because it has let the
occasion pass to acquire new units. Now if Iran sells CIF to China
it might want to buy tankers destined to the scrap yard from Pakistan
and have a fleet of "Victory" and "Liberty" ships whose destiny is to
make just one successful voyage.

But if the States manage to prevent Iran from selling any oil after
November 4 as they purport to do, the Ayatollah will have to prescribe
such actions as to make this embargo an unbearable burden on the West.

Close the straits and also target Aramco's facilities as well as Kuwaits
and the UAE and others US/SA/Israel accomplices. Stop the Worlds
supply of oil from the Gulf.

Reach to the British platforms in the North Sea and severely damage them.

Then, the World will have to tell the US to go f**k themselves and stand to
the US.

It would not be unfair for the Iranies to target some Juicy targets in Israel
as to make them pay a heavy price for the sufferings they are inflicting
on Iran and the World at large through their US slaves.

Posted by: CarlD | Aug 20 2018 20:55 utc | 66

Hopefully a reminder when Bolton and Putin discuss Syria:

Syria: Iran, Hezbollah presence not up for discussion

Posted by: Zanon | Aug 20 2018 21:11 utc | 67

@PH 62. Don't bother there's more intellect in your last bowel movement than mark2 possesses in it's entire double helix. Anyone going on about Nazi like it does is just begging for attention, especially pineing away to be violent to one. Odds are he/she/it can't even define what a Nazi was.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 20 2018 21:22 utc | 68

Saying goodbye to planet earth. A sobering read. Take a few minutes, read, and think about it.

Posted by: ben | Aug 20 2018 23:36 utc | 69

@70 ben.. thanks.. sobering... "The failure to act to ameliorate global warming exposes the myth of human progress and the illusion that we are rational creatures."

i was in the b.c. interior this past week.. fires are burning everywhere down and up the westcoast from mexico to b.c. we have been having unusually dry weather with no let up.. the fires are happening in so many places at this time that the smoke fills the sky almost everywhere in b.c. you see the sun as this orange spot in a hazy sky.. it is a weird experience and i think it makes people feel a bit strange to say the least..

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2018 0:35 utc | 70

@ ben with the latest Chris Hedges article link at truthdig

Thanks for that and mostly it is a good article but let me quote one sentence that I want to change
What people have to understand is that climate change is our cosmic adolescence.

My argument has always been and still is here that the incentives that we interact with each other around don't change in his escape from adolescence because we are not making the economic blood flow of our species a public utility. He remains alive and is given media coverage because he does not expose the sacred cow of global private finance and its influence on how our world turns....IMO

I want the sentence to read

What people have to understand is that private finance is our cosmic adolescence.

If we change the core incentives about how we interact with each other "economically" the climate change problem, like all the rest will go away or be handled like humanity's future mattered more than some folks power control and ownership of our lives seems to.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 21 2018 0:35 utc | 71

Pft @34. I agree that solving 9/11 is a key route to resolving most all the horrors in today's world. Those events that "changed everything" really did open the floodgates to imposition of the global, fascist world order.

Some researchers have done what I consider truly yeoman's work in parsing the details. But there are also a great number of disinformation agents at work, who lead us down dead ends and lead people only marginally informed on the details to dismiss the great work that's been done.

9/11 Conspiracy Solved: Names, Connections, & Details Exposed!
This one brings into focus the range of players necessary to pull it all off:

James Corbett did a series on 9/11 Suspects:

Christopher Bollyn - the author of 3 books on 9/11 and its preceding and subsequent events - has done the best work I’ve seen on “Solving 9/11.” This video is not the highest quality, but encapsulates his research quite well in an hour.

Bollyn 2 1/2 hour presentation is a much better presentation:

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 21 2018 0:59 utc | 72


The establishment and deep state are one and the same or at the or at the very least interlocked. Its very likely that Trump like his partner Felix Sater was a CIA/FBI asset providing information on Russian oligarchs and mafia money laundering that took the form of financing his business ventures and purchasing his real estate in tbe US and elsewhere

It occurs to me he may have been a double agent and duping Russia into thinking he was working for them. His political aspirations seemed non existent until after his 1987 trip to Moscow. Most likely the CIA sent him there knowing they would try and recruit him. They then began grooming him for a political role down the road and protected him like they did Sater, while collecting his intelligence on Russia mafia/oligarchs over the years

For all of Trumps visits to Russia over the years, including his son and daughters trips, he never invested a dime there

Anyways, thats one possibility. Not entirely sold on it.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 21 2018 1:37 utc | 73

@ 34 & @ 73 - Several years back, I read The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration & 9/11
by David Ray Griffin. I thought the author did a good job discussing the matter.

Thank you, b, and all the good folks on MOA! Hell, thanks to the trolls, too. It keeps it interesting.

Posted by: roza shanina | Aug 21 2018 2:19 utc | 74

72 psychohistorian quote :"private finance is our cosmic adolescence".. i really agree with you.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2018 2:59 utc | 75

I dunno if others have seen this - most likely have, since I generally steer clear of tabloid web but this is a classic. Some worthless piece of garbage amerikan xtian attacking the staff at a hotel in Kampala Uganda and calling them n##gers while claiming the bossfella con artist jesus h christ on his Jimmy L. Taylor's side. The name says it all - only a piece of amerikan sh1t would use a diminutive such as Jimmy in their formal handle.
The hotel workers somehow managed to refrain from slapping the old bugger down, but they were laughing at him - a lot.

As can be seen from his face book page the old racist is now whining about the fact the Ugandan police have slotted him up.
An extreme example of exceptionalism perhaps - but that is what has encouraged across to africa where moronic amerikans have arrived in droves believing amerikan culture rules the world.

Good job Barack Oblamblamblam - there can no longer be any doubt this 'prezdency' was a set up by the usual suspects as way of quietly slipping amerika's shrivelled and pox encrusted penis up africa's arseholes.

Anyway I better let y'all get back to ME outrage de jour nonsense designed at least in part to focus minds on one tiny piece of the horror out there, so that they can concentrate propaganda resources economically.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 21 2018 3:38 utc | 76

For those who live in the U$A, here's an interesting tid-bit on the cost to working class Americans of corporate welfare.

Show this to your neo-con friends..

Posted by: ben | Aug 21 2018 3:47 utc | 77


Ben, I used to work at EPA from its first days or research, legislation, laws and regulations. I had another guy with me while we sluethed out a hidden 1m diameter hot oily-water discharge from a MidWest oil refinery into the local river. We took affidavits, measurements, t3st samples, photos, then I prepared the portfolio for the State AG.

Instead, some guy came into my office, flashed a badge, grabbed all the documents, and sent me back out on a road trip wild goose chase for a week. When I got back, there was a 'middle manager's in my office, and I had been moved to a converted janitor's closet.

Then began the Mafiya takeover of EPA, the gutting of laws and investigations, and the new SuperFund 'taxpayers pay for it's Mafiya con game, like the one they're running at Pentagon.

Years later I came back again, but it was totally corrupt, staffed with hysterical Rabbinicals Will and and Warlocks forcing citizens to give up wood stoves and not emwatering their gardens, while refineries and power plants benched out poisons.

They tried a carbon tax scheme, but were forced to admit the revenues were targeted to higher State salaries and underfunded pensions.

The climate change issue is deforestation, desertification (DeTilthing) and mining of groundwater, and to an extent, uncontrolled fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides. That's the change you're seeing. The world is much much cleaner today, but it's being stripped of life.

CO2 is a trace gas, more rare than xenon, for gripes sake. A carbon tax is like a food tax or an air tax or a water tax or a salt tax. Genocide. Blue Team Uber Alles.

As the Bainist Bust Out of 1000 Years proceeds, you will see genocides every day. Get used to it, but don't repost it!

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 21 2018 4:01 utc | 78

For Climate Change I found Ian Plimers Heaven and Earth intetesting. Here is an excerpt. Bit lengthy but there is no link. Fair use applies

During the last 730,000 years there have been ten major glaciations separated by interglacials. Records of these glaciations are best seen in deep sea sediment cores and are present in all oceans.41 Climate change was global. Full glaciation and full deglaciation appear to be related to heat exchange processes between ice and ocean and not to CO2. Previous interglacials have been up to 5ºC warmer in polar regions than the current interglacial.

Wobbles in the Earth’s orbit have produced repeated cycles of 90,000 years of cold climate followed by 10,000 years of warmth. Before 1 Ma, there were 41,000-year cycles. For at least the last million years, a 1500-year warm-cold cycle42 has coincided with a 1500-year solar cycle. These 1500-year cycles were commonly marked by changes in temperature of up to 4ºC and these were superimposed over the longer icehouse (glacial) and greenhouse (interglacial) cycles. Other solar cycles on the scale of 210 years, 80 to 90 years, 33 years, 22 years and 11 years also cause climate
change in varying degrees.43 During cool times, climate has been very variable whereas during warm times, climate has been far steadier.

During the last interglacial period, sea level was 6 metres higher than today. Air temperature was anything from 2ºC to 6ºC warmer. The ice sheets retreated but did not completely melt. Alpine valley glaciers retreated. Vegetation and animal habitats changed. Trees advanced up slope and to higher latitudes and there was no extinction of life. Life on Earth thrived and there were fewer cold snaps. There was no industry emitting CO2 at that time so this warming can only be natural.

The last glaciation started 116,000 years ago. Ice sheets, glaciers and sea ice expanded. Temperature and sea level fell. Some plants and animals moved and those that could not adapt became extinct. During the last ice age there were short periods of warmth followed by rapid collapses into bitterly cold conditions. Humans lived at the edge and were lucky to survive the last glaciation. The last glaciation finished 14,000 years ago. There was rapid global warming and rapid sea level rise followed. Sea level rose at least 130 metres at the rate of 1 centimetre per year.
Trees migrated up slope and to higher latitudes, animals migrated and humans thrived.

The climate rapidly plunged into very cold periods from 12,900 to 11,500 years ago and 8500 to 8000 years ago. These changes stressed life on Earth, changed plant and animal distribution, and led to the expansion of ice sheets and alpine valley glaciers. During a warm period 6000 years ago, sea level was 2 metres higher than at present. Temperature was also higher. It only took years to decades to change from a warm to a cold climate. Fluctuating warm and cold conditions continued during a period of thousands of years characterised by warmth.

A 300-year drought started in 2200 BC. This led to the collapse of empires and depopulation. In the Roman Warming from 250 BC to 450 AD, temperature was at least 2ºC higher than today. It was a period of global warming. Population increased, there was excess wealth and warm climate agriculture could be undertaken in areas at much higher latitudes and altitudes than now. Forests expanded. This warming could not be due to human emissions of CO2.

The Dark Ages followed. This was a bitterly cold period of crop failure, famine, disease, war, depopulation, expansion of ice and increased wind. During the Dark Ages there was great social disruption and murderous climate refugee gangs wandered Europe looking for food. Civilisations such as the Mayans collapsed.

The Medieval Warming (900–1300 AD) was a wonderful time for life on Earth. Ice sheets, glaciers and sea ice contracted, enabling sea exploration and settlement at high latitudes. Grain crops, cattle, sheep, farms and villages were established on Greenland which was at least 6ºC warmer than today. Although there was a cold period of 40 years in the Medieval Warming, crop failures and famine were rare. The population increased and there was enough food to feed the additional tens of millions of people. Excess wealth created over generations was used to build cathedrals, monasteries and universities. The Medieval Warming was global. This warming could not possibly be due to human emissions of CO2.

The Little Ice Age started in the late 13th Century with a decrease in solar activity. The Little Ice Age was characterised by rapidly fluctuating climate and extraordinarily cold periods during solar inactivity (1280–1340, 1450–1540, 1645–1715 and 1795–1825). It was very cold. It was a global climate change. There was crop failure, famine, disease, war and depopulation. There was social disruption, and hungry wandering climate refugees resorted to cannibalism. Food prices increased at times of weak solar activity. The Vikings on Greenland died out. It was not a good time to live. The Little Ice Age ended in 1850 and since then there has been a warming trend with cooler periods (1940–1976 and 1998–present).

History, archaeology and geology show that we currently live in an interglacial and variable climate. The slight changes that we can observe with modern instrumentation are very small.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 21 2018 4:08 utc | 79

Psychohistorian @ 62
That's the same mistake they made when hitler was coming to power ! Imagine how many life's would have been saved ! By all nations! If some people had had the foresight and back bone to stop him early enough. Seems we never learn. But I think our past generations not least the ones that lost there life's in that war, would be turning in there graves, to read your comment.
And you a historian !

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 21 2018 4:23 utc | 80


It's extremely simple, actually. WTC towers were built like giant steel sequoias. The columns I believe were six feet at the base, a tight braced core, rigid enough to slough off the highest winds and carry the weight of 110 floors.

So if an aluminum beer can full of fuel hits the exterior columns that, like crutches, supported the outstretched floor beams, the cascade should have immediately collapsed. It did not. In fact, the fires were largely oxygen starved smoke after a short time. Second tower, same thing. No cascade collapse, fire quickly oxygen-starved.

No other high-rise in history, (not even the Empire State Building that was impacted by an armored WW2 bomber!), ever collapsed from fire. Ever is a long time.

Then suddenly the center core, the strongest part of the 'tree trunk' if you will, went into free fall! It didn't teeter, it didn't topple, it fell straight down through the most powerful steel core of columns in any city in USA! Straight down, no veering, no shearing, no splintering, no shattering, at free-fall speed.

Then moments later the other tower fell *exactly the same way*. This violated the laws of physics, of engineering and statistics. Two different buildings, two different beer cans, they both fell straight down, at free fall speed.

Then EPA said all the blowing megaton of asbestos was 'safe' for responders, who found no furniture, no file cabinets, and only scattered body parts. And deep underground, the molten foundation stayed red-hot for months.

Saddam did it!

And right now the twin towers of our civilization have been struck by the Bainite Bust Out cabal, everything is smoking and in chaos, then they'll 'pull it's. They're just letting the game run as long as it bleeds out.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 21 2018 4:41 utc | 81

Also if you suggest my comment was antisocial, do you think Assad and his Syrian army, should let the yanks invade there country, murder and create millions of refugees without a fight ? Becouse violence is bad ? You don't understand the difference between a victem and a perpetrator
You need to reset your moral compass along with a few more here.

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 21 2018 4:45 utc | 82

Debsisdead @ 77
You just gave me back the will to live! Come back! We need ya! You can see things going down hill fast. It's good to flush out the bad apples here. I'v got a list of'm two posts ago, at the end of the comments. Neat and tidy for all to see!

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 21 2018 7:06 utc | 83


To add to what you said there were the explosions reported
by first responders, and the lingering heat at ground zero after the collapse that lasted for weeks and burned first responders boots . The IR signature was captured by satellites. There was also WTC 7 that collapsed in a symmetrical fashion despite asymmetric damage. FEMA never tested debris for explosives since they said they had no reason to believe explosives were used. The steel was conveniently shipped to South Korea despie being evidence in a mass murder. In Cheneys authorized biography his aid David Addington was quoted as saying he thought the buildings were charged as did pretty much anyone with any background science, explosives or engineering

About 30-40 minutes after the second plane hit and it was clearly a terrorist attack (Tenet said he knew after the first plane but said he didnt call Bush) with a number of planes missing, the military somehow could not provide any air defense over the most important potential target (DC) allowing one of the most preposterous flight routes ever flown by a plane to hit the Pentagon which somehow was not captured by a single video camera (many tourists) or surveillance cameras at the most secure facility in DC (Pentagon) except for that grainy video that must have used the cheapest camera on the planet, and the plane mysteriously left no pieces that could be easily identified as an airplane as is the case in most crashes.

There are about a hundred other bits that just dont compute, and of course the anthrax attacks to warn people to shut up (government and media) that was said to be from Iraq that turned out to be US military grade (and the patsys suicide so no questions can be answered)

Posted by: Pft | Aug 21 2018 8:14 utc | 84

Chipnik says:

Then moments later the other tower fell *exactly the same way*. This violated the laws of physics, of engineering and statistics. Two different buildings, two different beer cans, they both fell straight down, at free fall speed

if two 500,000 ton skyscrapers should collapse at free fall speed into their own footprints there's gonna be one helluva pile of rubble.

didn't happen

if two 500,000 ton skyscrapers should collapse at free fall speed into their own footprints there's gonna be one helluva seismic spike.

didn't happen

the towers were built on bedrock in the Hudson River. a million tons of steel and concrete slamming into the ground would almost certainly have ruptured the bathtub and flooded lower Manhattan.

didn't happen

Posted by: john | Aug 21 2018 10:56 utc | 85

The problem with the 9/11 Twin Towers incident is that there are too many competing theories about what happened; ranging from remote controlled planes, missiles, holograms, image manipulation, nuclear bomb, mysterious rays, thermite, preinstalled denotations, the Twin Towers never existed, etc.

Possibly the truth about how the Twin Towers were brought down is in one of those theories but there are so many different theories that any clarity on the issue is totally obscured. (The same is true of the other 9/11 incidents).

It would, therefore, seem obvious that these theories are intended to obscure what really happened.

However, if you look at the possible perpetrators then there is much greater clarity. There are only 4 possible perpetrators:

1. Al-Qeada
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Israel
4. The American State

(Any of these culprits could have worked in concert, or used, any of the other parties so, for simplicity I would be concerned with who was the prime instigator.)

Al-Qaeda feels more like a patsy. Anybody who could be questioned is dead or permanently out of reach. The likelihood of Al-Qaeda being able to independently run such an operation is minimal. There are also huge questions about whether Al-Qaeda was/is independent of the West.

What on earth would Saudi Arabia have gained acting independently? If it was found out it would have risked nuclear annihilation. There would have been easier ways to involve the US is intervening in the middle east. Eg. one obvious way would be to engineer a false flag against Israel. It would have been insane for Saudi Arabia to undertake 9/11 without the support of the US.

The same point applies to Israel if they acted independently? The risks, if found out, are huge.

And that leaves only one realistic culprit the US state itself. The US may have used any or all of the above alternative possible perpetrators but they are the only possible perpetrator capable of successfully organising such an action (with the minimum of risk).

So I would conclude that it was the US who are responsible for 9/11 and all the competing theories about how the Twin Towers were brought down is just intended to muddy the waters.

I am afraid that 9/11 is following the history of the JFK assassination. By 2030 it won't be much of an issue and by 2050 all that most people in the west will know about 9/11 is that Al-Qaeda did it.

Posted by: ADKC | Aug 21 2018 12:52 utc | 86

There's really no mistery in 9/11.

Al-qaeda tried a plane attack in NY in the early 90s (if I'm not mistaken, it was 1992, the year after the end of the Cold War).

It had numerous times publicly announced its intentions to capture a commercial plane and strike down the World Trade Center during the same decade. The CIA, by that time, probably had ample intelligence on their plans.

At least two of the terrorists are known to have trained in American air bases, in Colorado and Minnesota. The CIA for sure not only knew their plans in detail, but had the names in anticipation.

What probably happened in 9/11 was that the deep state knew, since the 90s, a plane attack would happen in NY; they just didn't know when and they didn't try to stop it. And the reason is the USA needed a new enemy, after the fiasco of the "war on drugs" of Reagan. Enter terror.

Posted by: VK | Aug 21 2018 13:06 utc | 87

Chipnick @84 Pft @90

One interesting explanation proposed for the fall of the two towers - was the replacement of ceiling panels in both towers by false explosive ones. These weighed about six lbs each, (multiply by quantity per room) and were replaced during periods when the surveillance cameras were deliberately shut off. ie. For one tower this was about one-two weeks before and then the other tower just before the day. According to the description - the explosive "ceiling panels" were placed every SECOND floor, because if they were placed on every floor - this would have slowed down the rate of fall.

The person responsible for rapidly sending the debris to be "recycled" before any forensic examination, was Guliani. Now on Trumps team.

The person responsible for limiting the CCTV camera evidence (there were some 36 cameras operational) about the Pentagon attack, was Mueller of the FBI. The FBI seized ALL the camera evidence, and allowed ONE person to see them, who then released the strict minimum. The Commission did not get to see the other photographic evidence either.

Posted by: stonebird | Aug 21 2018 13:11 utc | 88

@ pft 90

I have also wondered at the glowing molten mass that was hot for weeks.....
Whatever caused the collapses on 9/11, it was not two air liners hitting the two towers. It is pointless to speculate, you will be labelled a cook if you try to point out discrepancies in the official line. And then there is building 7. Please! I do not believe in holy miracles either or that some man walked on water.
The problem is : to common people with a limited understanding, science seems like magic. We are currently in the Neo Dark Ages, and we that do "hard science" are not believed or discredited. In a few years time I will start to wear a wizards outfit and everybody will believe me!

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Aug 21 2018 13:23 utc | 89

@ pft 90

”The steel was conveniently shipped to South Korea despite being evidence in a mass murder.”

Not all of it; there's a big chunk of it sitting on display in the lobby of Oregon's DPSST (Department of Public Safety Standards and Training, the state police training school) main building.

I wonder how long it would remain there if people began urging that it be tested.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 21 2018 13:25 utc | 90

ADKC says:

However, if you look at the possible perpetrators then there is much greater clarity. There are only 4 possible perpetrators:

1. Al-Qeada
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Israel
4. The American State

Joseph Farrell would beg to differ:

9/11 Musings

Posted by: john | Aug 21 2018 13:38 utc | 91


The public is invited out to the facility at 1 p.m. September 20th, for a firefighters' memorial occasion. I would imagine photography would be allowed.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 21 2018 13:42 utc | 92

Amazing how the most unlikely of alliances can form in this comment section.

Posted by: morongobill | Aug 21 2018 13:42 utc | 93

/Kurds moving to Assad for secure territory they can call their own./
The U.S. once again selling them out...
Posted by: V | Aug 19, 2018 10:03:26 AM | 1

stop your Rubbish

Afrin - the only region that has been occupied by a neighboring countr. The traitor Assad has been silence. the Syrian extremist opposition hired in Afrin for the killing , theft and the consecration of the occupation , the Russians closed the air defense systems S-300, as the United Nations treacherous silence on this crime, It has been a swamp designed by f**king Putin!

Posted by: ALAN | Aug 21 2018 14:06 utc | 94

Alan @94

What did you expect? The Kurds in Afrin seem to want an independent state or at the very least a region with a high degree of autonomy within Syria. Neither option is one that Turkey would tolerate. And the Syrian government does not want the Kurdish regions to have a different arrangement to anyother region within Syria.

You cannot realistically have expected Russia or Syria to get into a direct conflict with Turkey over this.

The Kurds may have expected that the US would create a state for them but that isn't going to happen (and in the sense that it was ever possible would have left Kurds as a vassal state occupied by the US).

Like it or not the best option is for Afrin and the Kurds to come to terms with Syria.

I have sympathy for the Kurds but no-one is going to fight for you and if you fight against Turkey or Syria then it will be the Kurdish people that will suffer.

Your aim should be to reconcile with Syria and achieve as much autonomy as possible under a constitutional settlement.

Posted by: ADKC | Aug 21 2018 15:00 utc | 95

@95 adkc.. i agree with you on this... getting in bed with the usa is always a mistake... hopefully the kurds can, or have figured this out by now..

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2018 16:11 utc | 96

"Trump said to have told Jordan king: Israel will have a PM named Mohammed if no deal" (on Palestinian rights).
Times of "Israel" August 19, 2018.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 21 2018 17:40 utc | 97

further to @72 psychohistorians comment on finance, i see germanies fm has some interesting comments on world finance...

"The European Union should set up a system that would allow Brussels to be independent in its financial operations from Washington, according to German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas.

“It is indispensable that we strengthen European autonomy by creating payment channels that are independent of the United States, a European Monetary Fund and an independent SWIFT system,” Mass wrote in the Handelsblatt business daily.

SWIFT is a network that enables financial institutions worldwide to send and receive information about financial transactions based in Belgium. The system’s management claims SWIFT remains politically neutral and independent."

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2018 17:46 utc | 98

germany's, lol...

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2018 17:46 utc | 99

Michael Cohen indicted and facing a world of hurt, while Manafort is going through a trial by fire. That's what you get with Trump; pain and no gain. Trump has very bad karma. He is exactly what Americans deserve. Those already suffering his policies will grow weary of just how hard it is to rid him from the WH; those high on the Trump juice are in for a rude awakening.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 21 2018 19:35 utc | 100

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