Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 30, 2018
On The ‘Soft Progressive-liberal Block’

by Noirette
picked from a comment

re Ort @ 14 who wrote:

The “soft” progressive-liberal bloc in the US, individuals and organizations alike, have become so pathologically consumed with the conviction that Donald Trump is the Great Orange Satan who must be removed from office forthwith, and by any means necessary, that they hysterically embrace any public figure who opposes (opposed) Trump.

The ‘soft progressive liberal set’ – just as ‘Dems’ and ‘Reps’ – don’t really present a political ideology, framework, view-point, or even low-level adherence and/or claims. They are cover for an underlying hidden structure: informal tribes/circuits and sections in an oligarchic corporatist régime, or even something different, which I won’t go into now.

Obama ran on a non-interventionist stance and a ‘re-set’ with Russia-relations platform, for which he was awarded the Peace Prize (which is not a recommendation). Trump did the same in a more loudmouthed vulgar pointed way and was vilified and is despised ‘to the death’ for it. While impeachment and a nasty accident seem out of reach, as wildly imprudent, he is prevented from acting. By the way, Bush junior did the same which garnered him the Muslim vote which probably won him the election. Yes, study the numbers. (Setting aside hanging chads and the Supreme Court, Bush still needed a pile of votes.)

The question is, what is the aim of the resurgent hate-Russia meme, now boiling-over and turned crazed hysterical? Is it at heart contra-Trump or contra-Russia? Of course one could answer ‘both’ but that doesn’t explain ‘russiagate’ and the self-harm the U.S. is trapped in.

Another sign that the political divisions are ‘pretend’ is that the ‘Dems’, the ostensive losers re. Trump, have not behaved like a political party who loses. These generally disband, retire, fold, or make efforts at reform, re-orientation etc. Renewal may be tough but they often try. (As did the Repubs after Obama’s election, though the effort was incredibly weak.) Nothing like that is going on, because the fight is not political. It is based on tribal desperate angst at the ‘surprise’ election of an outsider who holds cards in his hands nobody can speak about.

re Ort @ 24 who wrote:

To 'True Believers', if [Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez] seems equivocal, or even confused, about the nature of (Democratic) socialism or expresses anodyne, conformist, safe positions, they will justify this as sensible reticence. AOC has to appeal to the elusive "center", and charm skeptical voters by not appearing unduly extreme or, God forbid, radical.

As with Obama and others similarly situated, they pretend that once the ostensible Third Way newcomer is accepted and established, they can and will gradually disclose their true political selves, and act accordingly. Regardless of how often this scenario fails to work as hoped, they remain convinced that it's both unavoidable and prudent.

Ocasio-Cortez is merely a willing actress poster-babe (she will earn a LOT). The role is not different from prancing about in lovely swish skirts on some MSM-TV series. She was selected for her looks / background (not the best re. the background, but there aren’t many candidates, which is very hopeful imho), her naiveté, ignorance, and submissive stance. Some ‘fake’ younger figures -only women and male gays, girls are more acceptable to the general public- have to be pictured as up-n-coming Dems, in a kind of sketchy and unconvincing parade of ‘diversity’ and so on.

Comments

DT. I am not interested in changing your mind about anything. Period. We are ALL Rascist, the only difference being the degree of acceptance, or as you like to point out non acceptance. Just my op.
I have a strong suspicion that the main reason most voted for Donald was the election rhetoric. The Donald’s rhetoric was decidedly anti war,(disband Nato, disengage militarily around the world etc) pro job (renegotiate NAFTA, bring pressure to bear on corps that offshore labour etc) and anti corruption (drain the swamp) Safe borders (build the wall etc) This is what appealed to those who voted.
As anyone who has been paying attention will know, the rhetoric is really the only thing voters have to go on as, we all for the most part can agree that pols are not there for their constituents. This common sense if you will can be found in any so called advanced democracy.
One can argue that the Dems are just as rascist as you call the GOP. HRC bringing pressure to bear through state department channels to ixnay a raise in minimum wages in Haiti as just one example, this would be anti woman as well as mostly women were affected by this policy.
Other than the usual Race baggage carried around by ALL of us, I don’t think it was a point that focused the majority of trump voters. The simple fact that the so called alt right has rallies and NOONE shows is a good indicater that race is not a primary concern. IMO it’s just sore loser BS at this point.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 31 2018 16:37 utc | 101

LOL
A post about manipulated politics …
… raising questions about the legitimacy of govt …
… draws comments focusing on party and personality …
… the social opiates employed to control the terms of debate …
… and maintain the illusion of democracy.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 31 2018 16:41 utc | 102

reply to
“I agree with your perspective, but am quite confident that he had contemplated and resolved the “do-able?” issue during the decade or more BEFORE he entered the race. He had ready-made answers to ALL of the anodyne drivel he’d be obliged to endure and refute from the moment he first opened his mouth as a candidate.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31, 2018 12:35:44 AM | 72
I totally agree, he plays to win; he has done very well in the incredibly tough international business of high end real estate development. He is a tough cookie which is why I think he is real or as real as we can hope for.
I see him as a world class uber junk yard dog. Big? loud? Aggressive? Yes, and smart; he will rip you to pieces if he gets a hold on you. I just hope he is our dog in our yard:)

Posted by: frances | Aug 31 2018 17:44 utc | 103

@JR How is racebaiting, which DT did, NOT all of the things you listed?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 31 2018 17:50 utc | 104

@JR. Sorry. I wish we could erase comments. You are of course right, I cant help but feel that my point was/is stil valid though, and fits the frame you have placed on the discussion.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Aug 31 2018 17:54 utc | 105

It is a mistake to worry much about the personalities or even the connections of candidates for election. If there were reason for concern it would not be over the likes of Ocasio Cortez but over the dozens of former spooks, warriors and political prostitutes running for the Democrats.
More important are the platforms on which they run but most important is the overall situation.
The USA is descending into a massive crisis. About 40% of the population are in poverty and half of that number are hungry. How many fear consulting a doctor it is hard to guess but the answer is that large numbers fear the expense of medical treatment for themselves and their dependents. The US was never a welfare state but it has never previously been as bad as it is now: the old networks of neighbourhood and community are fading away, Unions have virtually disappeared, there are no ‘ward healers’ in the cities any more. And medical care and drugs are appallingly expensive. Not since the thirties and the Depression has there been such widespread insecurity and fear of what the future will bring.
Unsurprisingly there is enormous popular support for socialised medicine, even though there is no support for it from the media, party leaders and pundits and very little in Congress. Still, it is coming and it is coming soon.
Neo-liberalism has outreached itself, its partisans began to feel that they could do anything and get away with it-hence the Trump tax cuts, icing on the cake of almost half a century of robbing from the poor to pay the rich. And now their time is up, that is why there is a turn in the direction of Sanders and his acolytes.
In the latest Black Agenda Report Glen Ford reports that black voters are now rallying to the left, feeling confident that the Clintonite-DLC strategy is a busted flush and that reform is now possible.
As the social crisis deepens the slow collapse of the Empire becomes a critical factor. The dollar’s reserve currency monopoly has already ended, the US is going to have to learn how to deal with trade and budget deficits- that trillion dollar Defense boondoggle is going to start looking mighty tempting as politicians look around for quick ways to pay for the things that their constituents demand. Demands including a reversal of the mass incarceration programme which has seen an eightfold increase in the number imprisoned since Clinton brought the Jim Crow politics of Hope Arkansas to the White House.
As to NAFTA it would be a mistake not to recognise that, as of December, the Mexican President will be much harder to deal with than the current incumbent, the last in a long line of crooked compradors for whom Free Trade was a quick way of cashing in by selling out. AMLO is much more likely than Trump to tear up the pact which is as unpopular in Mexico’s villages as in the Mid West.
In the international arena one marvels at the thickheadedness of the neo-cons dominating both parties: there is only one way out for those still dreaming of hegemony. And that is nuclear war an unthinkable option. As b has become famous for proving over the past seven years, the SAA is going to win in Syria. The only people who could stop them are the Turks who the Pentagon are wooing by collapsing the lira and threatening to cut off from over priced, second rate military materiel.
As the alliance between China, (said to be sending troops to Syria), Russia and Iran solidifies, (with thanks to Washington for driving them into each others arms) and Iraq, Pakistan, Turkey and Lebanon shift their bets to the winning side, Israel begins to look isolated, at least to the extent that it can no longer act with impunity in the region. If it attacks Syria it may find that it has bitten off more than it can chew: an opponent, unlike Hamas, with an army and an array of allies unwilling to sit by as it is defeated and the sacrifices and gains of tough campaigning are put at risk.
It is true that the ‘left’ Democrats are very soggy on foreign policy and committed to zionism but it matters very little- in practical terms Israel’s expansion is at an end. Which is why it is so frenetically tearing up the West Bank and hammering Gaza. Its dreams of expanding into Lebanon, Jordan and Syria are no longer viable: Hezbollah taught them that, at the same time that it taught the Arab world that dignity and resistance were an option.
In short: don’t worry about the pretty faces running for election, they are nothing more than surfers on the wave and the wave, which has been gathering strength for the past ten years, is energised by working people who have no option but to call for change. They saw it in Obama, and they were disillusioned, then they thought that it lay in the Tea Party, or Trump. The mass desertion of Democratic voters since 2010, the loss of State Houses, of Congress and the Presidency have been misinterpreted as indicating shifts to the right, in fact they have shown how unpopular the right wing Democrats have proved to be.
As the 2016 Democratic Primaries showed the reform message of the neo-New Dealers is what the masses want. Until 1980 nobody doubted it either. It would not be hard to show that, for a variety of reasons, the Reagan phenomenon and the associated Blue Dog (Reagan) Democrats who have dominated the US since 1980 are an anomaly and that Sanders represents a return to political normality.
In other words the current crop of ‘socialist’ Democrats is nothing more than the re-incarnation of the Kennedy, Truman, Roosevelt party, minus the Cold War. Because they are new-all the previous generation’s politicos having committed themselves to Clintonism- they tend to be good looking and and young. That’ll change. What won’t is the disillusionment in America with neo-liberalism and continual, draining wars.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 31 2018 19:43 utc | 106

@106 bevin

“The mass desertion of Democratic voters since 2010, the loss of State Houses, of Congress and the Presidency have been misinterpreted as indicating shifts to the right, in fact they have shown how unpopular the right wing Democrats have proved to be.”

Very, very good observation. Thank you for that. As you say, working people have no option but to call for change. Even if they have no words.
The rich have no need for labels, and the poor have no way to escape them. But much of everything happens without a lot of articulation – descriptions usually come afterwards.
The currents that run in people’s hearts and minds, as you point out, are where the fundamentals lie.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 31 2018 23:36 utc | 107

@ Posted by: bevin | Aug 31, 2018 3:43:18 PM | 106
I’m certain a stickler such as yourself would prefer to know that the term you use in your second paragraph is actually ward heeler. Nothing to do with healthcare, this is a reference to the louche types who would trudge around a constituency cajoling, threatening and very occasionally bribing the citizens into voting “The straight democrat ticket”.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 1 2018 2:03 utc | 108

Here’s a way to sum up Trump: You only understand to what degree he’s a bastard when you dare to look at all the damage and destruction he wreaks on people’s lives and I’m referring to associates, people whose careers he ruined, livelihoods affected, AND mostly all the people affected by his insane policies (in healthcare, immigration, trade, energy (as in drilling wherever) and environmental).
He hasn’t started any wars yet ONLY because others have more self control than he does, but he’s coming pretty close with Iran and North Korea. Oh and I stress YET. This excludes of course that he has aided and abetted Saudi tyranny more than any other President!

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 3:30 utc | 109

Circe@109
Trump was the son of a rich slumlord charged with racial discrimination. Trump stiffed contractors using bankruptcy laws and said to have cheated his wives and partners.
He claimed to be Swedish and denied his German roots.
He refused to pay illegal immigrants who worked to build Trump Tower. They sued and collected 10 cents in the dollar
Trump established what’s alleged to have been an entirely fraudulent “university.
Alleged to have shifted almost 100 million in personal debt to casinos, then went public leaving shareholders responsible for the debt. Before this, he shifted a lot of casino financing from junk bonds to his NY enterprises
His Casino company charged by SEC of proforma accounting to mislead investors in 2002
Accused of sex crimes against women, even one alleged to be underage13 at the time , although that case was suddenly dropped (another payoff?). MSM basically just ridiculed as someone trying to cash in despite his relationship to Epstein
So an alleged sexual predator with 2 divorces with one of his key business being gambling , his companies charged with fraud and discrimination, embraced by the party of the Christian Right.
His mentor was Roy Cohn who worked with Joe McCarthy. Cohn inherited the enforcement arm of Meyer Lankskys mob before he died of AIDS.
His partner at Bayrock was Felix Sater whose father was tied to the leader of the Russian Mafia, the Brainy Don. He was also a CIA asset and his record was concealed , which allowed Sater to defraud investors by not disclosing this.
Got a series (4) of 1yr deferments for heel bone spurs to avoid the draft, despite the fact such a condition is easily corrected with minor surgery
And I havent even mentioned Russia
Perhaps none of the above in and of itself is much but how does someone like this get elected without the MSM and Deep States help in not going into attack mode on some or all of it.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 1 2018 5:19 utc | 110

Tannenhauser you out yourself as a standard issue GOP conservative with your repetitive lying attack on me “race baiting.”

It’s a classic misuse of the term “race-baiting,” a phrase used against those who dare to speak candidly about racism in America. In the Obama era, the right has embraced the term as a way of discrediting black people.
Right-wing outlets like the Drudge Report, Fox News and the National Review use the term “race-baiting” frequently and liberally. Drudge conveniently catalogs its use of the term for its readers.
Even when media outlets aren’t using the term “race-baiting” they find ways to allude to it and distract from what’s really being said.

As for the remainder of your argument, that you “suppose” Trump attracted his supporters through his (supposedly) non-racist view of the issues, you either do not live in the US or you are once again faithfully repeating GOP talking points to deflect the discussion away from the racism at the heart of the Trump campaign and in the hearts of both the vile man himself and his base supporters.
Do I even need to mention the “monkeying up” words of Trump-endorsed Trump acolyte GOP nominee for Fla Governor Ron DeSantis issued right of the box earlier this week against the Bernie-backed Andrew Gillum?
I’m shocked, shocked to find standard issue Republican Party apologists on this board. LOL

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 1 2018 7:05 utc | 111

And Trump has delivered approximately zero on the issues which drove his campaign, instead focusing his first two years on repealing healthcare coverage for the poor (Medicaid expansion under Obamacare), healthcare coverage for the semi-poor (Obamacare itself), huge tax cuts for the wealthy, terrorising (non-white) refugees on the border by illegally taking their children away and warehousing them in juvenile detention centers, all while increasing the federal budget deficit to record levels (which in the circular jerkular logic immediately lead to calls by the GOP to further cut away the social safety net to reduce the deficit), and last but not least a massive increase in defense spending.
Since he has totally failed his base substantively on the issues what else does he have left but jingoistic and racist appeals to keep his base pumped for the midterms?

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 1 2018 7:26 utc | 112

donkeytale
Tannenhauser is right. The US two-Party system promotes race-baiting (e.g. “identity politics”) and you are pushing the ‘Party line’.
Read my comment @102.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 12:12 utc | 113

Jack Rabbit @ 4. Trump may very well have been selected in some way – as I wrote in other posts, certainly he had/has very powerful backers idk about. (Other than public ones like Sheldon Adelson.) The election of DT was a unwelcome, stunning surprise to some segment of the players who were blinded by their own hubris and/or deliberately kept in the dark. An underground struggle that was normalised for the public. So selected maybe, but not in the way Obama was, that was consensual.
Trump is a ‘faux populist’ + some of your other points – oh yes. Your arguments though tend to refer to a Deep State (you actually write that..) with super domineering established + secure powers – imho, everything is far messier than the efficient, top-down control implied. US imperialism, the Pax Americana, is being eroded, willy-nilly and quite swiftly — Trump does represent some kind of desperate response to the loss of supremacy, a political ‘maverick’ or outsider, also as reflected in the vote.
The ‘W’ post WW2 “democracies” are supposed to function independently of Presidents / Prime Mins. etc. who take their turn to be figure heads who fit in and may make some changes or be ejected etc. This keeps the public feeling they are participating, and voting to some purpose. That system has been creaking and splintering for a while – the blatant symptoms are Brexit (GB had no business doing that referendum), the election of DT (the Dems abandoned any kind of political mandate as boring and unecessary), and the election of Macron (France had no business introducing ‘primaries’). All three events are the result of fiddling with the entrenched ‘democratic’ system as it falls and fails.

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 1 2018 13:22 utc | 114

I don’t want to necessarily feed the Russiagate thing but I can’t forego the truth by ignoring the obvious and I’m sick and tired of liberals peddling this popular misconception I want to expose, as I am a liberal myself and am ashamed to call myself one ever since liberals started embracing hypocrisy at the expense of what they should stand for. The only thing liberals are accomplishing with this Russia distraction is to further inflate the Karmic Monster that Trump really is. If Republicans have no shame right now; Democrats are redefining their own shamelessness exponentially because they are neck-deep in corruption as well. The corruption is staggering on both sides.
Here’s the truth and it’s especially directed at all liberal hypocrites.: The Russians did NOT break American democracy; Russians inadvertently exposed (albeit in a calculated limited way) that American democracy doesn’t exist. The American political system is completely RIGGED and both parties are guilty as sin. The problem is that the Russians narrowed the target to Hillary and the Dems and this should raise red flags as to the real intent and real authors of this collusion. When Trump repeats he did not collude with Russia;this whole Russia thing is a made up story: he’s using the Bill Clinton legal speak i.e. the famous definition of is speak. Technically, Trump did not collude with the Russian government but he got a whole lot of Russian help.
Trump was funded by Zionist Oligarchs in the U.S., but he was also curiously funded by a lot of Zionist Russian Oligarchs and they got the goods on him! In other words, he’s owned. The whole Russia angle IS a ruse concocted by Zionists; a ruse meant to distract from the fact that Zionists are the ones behind the Russia meddling and the Russian angle was deliberately used by Zionists and their Russian Zionist counterparts to distract from what really happened. Hillary was not their candidate. Trump promised to deliver on Jerusalem and Iran and Hillary never made those promises. Zionists have both sides of the aisle under their control, but whichever side demonstrates the slightest crack or weakness on Israel gets thrown under the bus in a heartbeat as Zionists have only one allegiance and that is to Zionism; Russian Zionists, idem. They’re just as bad.
Therefore the Russian angle is definitely there; Russian Zionists were involved in Trump’s election, but they left a trail seemingly leading to the Russian government when in fact this was all authored in Israel with the help of their Russian Zionist counterparts. Now, you ask, why would they then try to sabotage their own candidate with this Russia thing? It’s a calculated risk. They have insurance. They have Israel’s lawyer, Dershbagwitz doing damge control with his sidekick Neocon advocate Giuliani, and just in case things go wrong; they have PENCE waiting in the wings. IT’S ALL FIXED nice and tight.
So those Russians involved limited the rigged element of the political system to Hillary and the Democrats, very narrowly, not to expose the bigger picture in order to guarantee Trump and his man-in-waiting a victory. The limited exposure was a calculated risk. The Russia thing is to throw fake shade and erase the real fingerprints. Zionists have rigged both sides and Liberals should be shining the magnifying glass on their own Zionist financiers instead of distracting from their own corruption with: Look over there at that Trump/Russia thing!
Zionists were behind Iraq, behind Libya, behind Syria and now they got their capital confirmed by Trump and Trump tearing up the Iran deal and Bolton, Pompeo and Pence positioned to go after Iran. It’s all according to plan, people. If Trump is impeached after the mid-terms, so what, Pence is in the wings for them. Those Russian oligarchs, correction, Zionist Russian oligarchs got two birds with one stone. The influence and capital that Zionists wield is blinding, and Americans are such easy targets, with their religious and security fanaticism and especially their willing ignorance. Both parties are neck-deep in Zionist corruption; and there is NO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. Hillary must be kicking herself for not delivering the extra inch for her masters but she had to appease the Bernie left wing. As far as Zionists are concerned, she delivered Libya and Syria, good enough for them, and then became expendable when Trump was ready to go the extra mile.
Just another note: Jackrabbit and I agree on the issue that American democracy doesn’t exist, but here’s where we disagree. Bernie Sanders did not fall on his sword for Hillary; he was sabotaged by Zionist-first Wasserman and co. because he was the Democratic candidate best positioned in all the polls to beat Trump and Zionists were not going to allow that to happen. He was therefore the first to go; and THEN, once Zionists had the goods on the Dems and Hillary conspiring to sabotage Bernie, after she became the nominee: they put it out there to get rid of her as well. She was much easier to sabotage as a nominee than Bernie would have been who had less baggage. This is as clear as daylight! This was all easy-peasy for Zionists; just another day at the office; they have inside tracks everywhere. Instead of liberals obsessing with Russia; when Israel is embedded in the ruin of democracy its own and America’s: START FLUSHING THE SABOTEUR RATS AND ZIONIST FINANCIERS ON YOUR OWN SIDE. There is no American democracy until you grow a pair and put the Democratic saboteurs to shame.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 15:01 utc | 115

@ donkeytale | Sep 1, 2018 3:26:58 AM | 112
“Since he has totally failed his base substantively on the issues what else does he have left but jingoistic and racist appeals to keep his base pumped for the midterms?”
You forget setting up this QAnon PsyOp. But I do not know whether it has any influence in the USA.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Sep 1 2018 15:53 utc | 116

I taped McCain’s funeral service because you learn a lot from the words delivered at such events and let me make a prediction. Kissinger’s speech there is an omen of what’s to come for Trump. I believe Zionists are about to give their man Trump, who is now a liability, the boot. He delivered Jerusalem and tore up the Iran deal and now it’s time for him to go and someone else to carry out the mission.
I was amused when Kissinger mentioned Clinton in reference to McCain’s reconciliation with Vietnam, as this happened during the Clinton administration – he was referring to the spirit of reconciliation. Why did I note this moment? Because the camera cut to the Clintons and there was a bitter look on both their faces, and if I could read their thoughts at that moment, they might be: You bastard; you and your friends betrayal cost us the election!
Kissinger ended on this ominous note: henceforth, the country’s honor is ours to sustain. And you could see Bush nodding and smiling at that moment.
IMO this sounds like a message to Trump from his Zionist handlers. Trump is out in the cold.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 17:21 utc | 117

Jackrabbit – the country is racially polarised and the divisions are being exploited more openly by Trump and his acolytes every day (see DeSantis) for their own political gain (or for survival at this point). Racist robocalls are already playing out across Florida in an attempt to further “monkey up” the election.
Pointing out this uncomfortable truth to Trump supporters who declare they are not racist (and is there any other kind of Trump supporter?) is not the “party line” it is the truth. “Identity politics” and “race baiting” are interchangeable in your mind. All politics everywhere can be defined as “identity politics” in one way or other. Please show me some that are not and I will prove you wrong using your own sloppy definition. Representing the working class can even be construed as “identity politics.” This is sloppy analysis.
I provided quotes/links which show the term “race baiting” is in fact commonly misused not only by you and TH here but also for years by such notable GOP bastions as FNC, Drudge and the National Review.
Why can’t you simply own your Trump support as it is, if that’s what it is? Sure, he probably fooled you during the campaign with his rhetoric but by now your eyes must be willfully closed to deny Trump’s racism, not to mention his elitism and adherence to GOP Reaganist policy.
And if my name is throwing you off, I haven’t voted for any Democrat other than Bernie Sanders since my vote for Jerry Brown for Governor of California in 1974.
Donkeytale is a play on “the donkey’s Tail” a pre-revolutionary group of radical artists in early 20th century Russia, whose most notable member was Marc Chagall.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 1 2018 17:52 utc | 118

Noirette:

… imho, everything is far messier than the efficient, top-down control implied.

Well, in fact, American political power is very much top-down. The continuity of policy helps to prove that as does the ages of those at the top (Hillary, McCain, Kissinger, etc.).
Complex covert and very “messy” things do get done: just look at regime change in Ukraine, Libya, Syria, etc. Media control is important, and, as b and others have proven, MSM is well controlled.
Who else needed to know the messy details? Add Clapper, Brennan, Haspel? (to lead the ‘op’), and a general (Kelly?) to the conspiracy. That’s about it. These 7 are more than capable of ensuring a win for Trump. They constitute the core of the anti-Russia, pro-Empire establishment.
Of course Trump is also likely to have known because he had to be convinced to run (oligarchs like sure things) and his confidence that he would prevail (even early in the contest) was too high for someone new to politics.
Details become much less ‘messy’ when you’ve got the establishment’s finger on the scales. And from the establishment’s point of view, Trump’s win is a national security matter. He was the RIGHT GUY to address the challenges presented by Russia, China, Iran, and SCO. (Perhaps similar to Putin’s backers that saw him as the RIGHT GUY to lead Russia out of the abyss.)

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 17:56 utc | 119

Just for accuracy, I want to add that Obama nodded as well at the end of Kissinger’s eulogy speech.
Speaking of Obama: his eulogy was a mixed bag that included a bitch slap to Trump.
Even Joe Lieberman was dusted off to give the Zionist farewell to a champion of the Zionist/Neocon mission that was moved further by Trump and will carry on in his replacement. Jared was also there just to punctuate with his look of stoic resignation to a cause greater than his father-in-law’s Presidency; his beloved, no not Ivanka, wait for it: Zionism.
And so Trump is now just another used tool to be discarded for a new, shiny one that delivers the next stage for the Zionist-compromised American Empire. When Trump gets the boot he can go and commiserate with Hillary who also has the distinction of being a betrayed and discarded Zionist tool.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 18:15 utc | 120

donkeytale
Your rant doesn’t address the NONPARTISAN perspective that I described @104.
Please try to free yourself from the political narratives that set us against each other. Party and personality is a trap that you close on yourself and others every time you give it credibility with your screed.
Can’t you see that as long as people trap themselves in these narratives, the establishment wins. This is how the THIRD-WAY, neocon, neolib, ‘radical center’ prevails and then solidifies power via a permanent ‘Deep State’ and neo-feudal aristocracy.
While people fight about bathrooms and old statues, the ‘elite’ give themselves tax breaks and off-shore our jobs.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 18:21 utc | 121

@118
I wonder if Marc Chagall would approve of his Zionist comrades destructive nature in the world today and all the nukes they amassed in their new homeland to make the world a better place? Over a million Russian Jews helped make Israel what it is today — a cesspool of human rights violations. I wonder if he would have moved there and painted pink nukes with wings against a royal blue sky raining down on the undesirable Palestinians that just won’t go away and spoil their mystical real-estate entitlement.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 18:29 utc | 122

Circe
I disagree with your belief that Trump is “owned” by Russian Zionists. As I explained @4, I believe that Trump’s selection was prompted by the recognition that the Empire faced a serious challenge from Russia-China. This challenge caused a change in the Deep State calculus in which Kissinger and Hillary are more central than any Russian Zionist apartment buyers.
I disagree with your belief that Hillary was discarded. Hillary is the consummate insider who will be involved in politics until she dies (just like McCain).
I disagree with your belief that Sanders was ‘sabotaged’ by DWS. Such a view is an attempt to rehabilitate Sanders. Here’s why:

>> DNC-Hillary collusion wasn’t really a factor in the primary. It really became known only AFTER the primary along with Clinton’s surprising response: to give DWS a senior position in the campaign.
>> Clinton raised a great deal of money and could’ve raised more because she was the presumptive nominee. She didn’t need to collude with DNC for a few million dollars more! But that collusion, and her bringing DWS into the campaign pissed-off a lot of Sanders supporters. So what DWS really did was help Hillary to throw the race to Trump.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 19:12 utc | 123

Circe
I should also reiterate that:
I disagree with your belief that Trump will be forced out of office. If Trump leaves, it’ll be of because he doesn’t want to be a war President. His decision will stem from: 1) he doesn’t have the necessary experience or gumption; 2) he doesn’t want to tarnish his business interests by associating the Trump name with war; 3) Pence is McCain’s friend and much more likely to be compliant to MIC/Deep State wishes; 4) such a ‘switcheroo’ would be a powerful signal to Russia of USA seriousness – Russia would face the stark choice of reaching an accommodation with USA or calamity.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 19:38 utc | 124

@124
War will not be with Russia. It never was intended to be with Russia. There are too many Zionist Russians for that to happen and the U.S. is not going to risk a war that can escalate into a nuclear holocaust on U.S. territory. War will be with Iran.
I don’t think Trump gives a ratz’ass about being a war President especially if that war will be with Iran. I think he would even consider it a last ditch wag-the-dog distraction from his legal troubles.
If he leaves, it’ll be because he wants to save his business from the ruin that will follow if it’s revealed he committed some financial crime(s) OR he’ll leave before that outcome is imminent because his Zionist handlers will hold all disclosure of his financial secrets over his head like a sword and he’ll exit on demand. The own him; there’s no doubt. But if you’re right and he doesn’t have the stomach to start war with Iran coupled with the fact that he’s become a ginormous liability for Zionists to accomplish their goals then he’ll be out and Pence in but it won’t be a choice he’ll willingly make, because Trump doesn’t like to be perceived as a quitter. It’ll be forced upon him with an ultimatum.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 20:30 utc | 125

Correction: The(y) own him.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 20:32 utc | 126

@124
Look, you see it one way and I another, but I was right on Trump from the start, so my track record and discerning the truth in this is a little better than yours. When you were still doubting and not convinced Trump was Deep State co-opted; I was writing he was.
It makes absolutely no sense that Hillary would sacrifice something she pined for all her life. She made the mistake of playing dirty with DWS and Podesta to get rid of Sanders because she wanted that Presidency more than anything, thinking she could easily beat Trump. Her ruthless ambition trumped her wisdom and Zionists banked on that. Zionists knew she couldn’t win because they planned to used that weakness against her with success and other baggage. Sanders didn’t have her kind of baggage they could throw at him, so, they had to get rid of him first.
You should have seen her face when Kissinger, one of Trump’s Zionist handlers, delivered his eulogy for McCain. There were daggers in her eyes. Kissinger betrayed Hillary for Trump and now he’s going to do the same to Trump. Mark my words.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 20:53 utc | 127

By the way, I’m not trying to rehabilitate Sanders. I understand Sanders’ ship has sailed. If he runs; he won’t get out of the primaries. I happen to think however that he’s the least dangerous possibility. For a long time he ran independent of the Democrats. If anyone would be a President who would reject war on all levels; it’s him.
That’s all moot however. He won’t make it past the primaries. His only chance was in 2016.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 1 2018 21:01 utc | 128

Circe
Long ago Brzezinski said that capturing Ukraine and Iran was key for US/Western success. This sentiment is also inline with the “Wolfowitz Doctrine” that no strategic competitor be allowed to control resources that would make them a real threat.
These understandings were around long before Trump.
Thus your total focus on Trump as the root of all evil is myopic. And your focus on “Russian Zionists” ignores AIPAC and the neocons.
Your theories are a hot mess of anti-Zionist rage that throws off more heat than light.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 21:19 utc | 129

Circe:

It makes absolutely no sense that Hillary would sacrifice something she pined for all her life.

I’ve addressed this several times now:

1) It’s not up to her.
2) The recognition of an emerging threat to NWO/Empire changed Deep State thinking.
3) She values her behind-the-scenes power at least as much as her chance to become the first women President. When she makes sacrifices, she gaines more respect and power.
That power might help Chelsea to be the first women President – and Hillary would be thrilled with that.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 1 2018 21:38 utc | 130

DT.@111 I could say no you got me all wrong with my supposed outing my hidden GOP tag. I could explain that I have never nor would I ever vote GOP. Something tells me it just wouldn’t due because you got me pegged already, right? That being said…you got me all wrong. Listen… to my mind as soon as race comes up in politics it’s pretty much baiting, period. You insinuated that support for POTUS = Racism. The semantical plausible deniability you constructed after being called out is useless. As I stated before we are ALL racist, to varying degree’s and the so called Dems ARE NOT IMMUNE FROM IT. To denigrate an alternate and highly probable opinion on why voters may have voted for POTUS, as simply a justification for GOP racism, while calling me a liar and again race baiting reeks of an unkept chicken coop. Can you show me a single example of where the press asked an ordinary citizen why they voted for POTUS and they replied because he hates those wtbac, rghed ngrs like me? No you can’t, you can’t because that’s not why they voted for POTUS, and no the commies didn’t hack them. For every GOP policy that reeks of rascism the same can be found on the Democrat side. Jackrabbit is correct here. Believe what you want, like I said earlier you pegging me as a GOP sleeper cell is as wrong as black and white drinking fountains.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 1 2018 22:43 utc | 131

@129
Hello??? I never said I ignore AIPAC and Neoconservatism! Trump IS evil, but he’s not the root; Zionists are at the root! I’ve stated this in other words many, many times.
!
I’m focusing on Russian Zionists because more than usual came out for Trump! What is wrong with pointing to the FACTS???
@130
You’ve gotta be kidding! Hillary wouldn’t trade becoming President for all the gold in Fort Knox! The day she conceded she was destroyed. You’ve got it all wrong. Chelsea Prez??? Nevah! She’s not her mother; not even close; she doesn’t have the stomach for it.
The only thing you got right finally is that there is no democracy in the U.S. and Trump is all in with the deep state and FYI, the deep state is run by Zionists and Neocons many of whom are Zionist as well. Hence my focus on Zionists. Your problem has always been that you shy away from stating that fact…very suspect.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 2 2018 0:28 utc | 132

And one more thing: you say I rage against Zionists. With good reason! Zionists are responsible for much of the misery and destruction in the world of the past 40 to 60 years! Do you know how many lives were lost as a result of the wars initiated by Zionists? MILLIONS! And I won’t even get into the staggering destruction caused by these wars! I forgot to included Lebanon in my previous post. So forgive my obsession!!! And what of the misery they caused the people of countries they just meddled in??? example: Iran when they helped the Shah torture and oppress Iranians!
If there is reincarnation; I hope you’re delivered in Gaza and you have their boot on your neck from childhood. Maybe that’s what it’ll take for YOU to rage against them too!

Posted by: Circe | Sep 2 2018 0:48 utc | 133

Circe
So you’re saying …

>> Despite railing about Trump incessantly, your beef is really with the Deep State;
>> Trump decided to end his relationship with the Clintons in a nasty, public way because Russian Zionists bought some of his apartments – now the “own” him.
>> The Deep State made Trump President, BUT Hillary was not involved despite the fact that she and Bill have many Deep State connections;
>> Sanders was merely a victim of Hillary-DWS collusion – we should ignore his two decade friendship with the Clintons and were close to Trump for years;
>> Kissinger’s 2014 WSJ Op-Ed warning about a threat to the World Order and urging MAGA! means nothing – despite his close relationship with the Clintons and McCain and the fact that Trump-Pence ran on a MAGA! platform (plus Trump and Pence having close ties to Clintons and McCain).
>> There WAS Russian collusion because … Russian Zionists! – although there is no connection to the Kremlin, Mueller can trot out this ‘Russian connection’ whenever the Zionists choose to topple Trump.

None of the above makes any sense to me.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 2 2018 1:08 utc | 134

Trump said in Warsaw, “Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it?”
He was of course referring to Russia as well as China and Iran
Deep State all the way.

Posted by: Pft | Sep 2 2018 1:10 utc | 135

Obama did not reset relations with Russia. As a asset of the CIA, he pursued the continuing encirclement of Russia via regime change in Ukraine. He renewed the cold war. Trump wanted to reset relations but has failed to do so because he is inept and so egregiously corrupt that he has no credibility. In spite of the unrelenting propaganda, Putin appears in this fog of cold war like an apparition of peace and decency. The interests od the American people have been betrayed by their political parties s the oligarchs encircle the nascent social democracy and attempt to deprive it any political space to grow.

Posted by: jadan | Sep 2 2018 2:04 utc | 136

@134
It doesn’t make sense to you? What the hell! It doesn’t make sense to me because none of that is what I wrote — it’s your stupid spin at work again!
That’s what you do when you get cornered; when you get beat; you twist everything around. I can’t stand debating you; you’re not honest.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 2 2018 3:00 utc | 137

Circe
There’s no need for a meltdown.
I’m not “spinning”. But I did use the word “saying” as a figure of speech. This should be obvious because all comments here are written (not spoken).
You are implying the things I listed by what you’ve written in your comments. I hope you won’t make me go pull quotes from the thread to justify each one.
I was (clearly) trying to show that what you’ve implied makes no sense. Not as a ‘gotcha’ but so that you will rethink your positions.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 2 2018 5:07 utc | 138

Talking about the Russia collusion/ rapprochement clusterfuck, I’ve been revisiting a visually lavish 8-part BBC mini-series from 1999 called The Planets. It’s about astronomy, curiosity and space exploration. Episode 4 (according to Wiki) is called MOON.
MOON begins with the Russians being first to put something from Earth on the Moon, albeit some wreckage. But their main concern was proving that they had done so. There was no point in proceeding with the mission if they couldn’t prove its success. So they asked UK’s Jodrell Bank radio telescope if they would be so kind as to track it for them and the Poms said “delighted” and subsequently confirmed that the craft had successfully reached the Moon. The Yanks were not amused by this bout of unseemly UK activity toward a US enemy. During the Soviet photo-op Moon Lander mission, Jodrell Bank unhelpfully intercepted the pics sent back to Earth and published them in the UK media before the Russians had seen them.
In the very early ’60s Khrushchev floated the idea of joint US/Ru Moon missions but the US said No Thanks. But Kennedy later approached Khrushchev to discuss co-operation. According to Sergei Khrushchev, JFK was killed before those talks got off the ground.
A Coincidence-Theorist might be tempted to conclude that JFK was killed before he could establish a friendly relationship with The Swamp’s Favourite Fake Enemy.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 2 2018 5:19 utc | 139

There are many more conspiracies out there to consider besides these hoary cliches of the “deep state” (aka the entrenched government bureaucracy since at least WWII) and “uniparty” (aka the US political system since the earliest 19th century). Trump and Trump Jr injecting racism for political gain into the murder of Mollie Tibbetts alongside an Idaho-based white supremacy group. Coincidence? No such thing in conspiracy theorism.

The father of Mollie Tibbetts, the American student whose body was found last month, has condemned those seeking to appropriate her death to promote a political agenda, after Donald Trump Jr wrote an incendiary article blaming the Democrats for her death.
“Do not appropriate Mollie’s soul in advancing views she believed were profoundly racist,” Rob Tibbetts declared in an article for the Des Moines Register. “The act grievously extends the crime that stole Mollie from our family and is, to quote Donald Trump Jr., ‘heartless’ and ‘despicable’.”….
….Immediately after the details of her death were released, US president Donald Trump posted a video on Twitter pointedly referring to Ms Tibbetts’ “permanent separation” from her family in apparent reference to his since modified policy of separating migrant children from their families at the US border….
….The Road to Power, a white supremacist neo-Nazi group based in Idaho, called the Tibbetts family in an automated ‘robocall’ which called the Tibbetts traitors to their race and claimed if Mollie could be brought back to life, she would say of immigrants, “Kill them all.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mollie-tibbetts-father-donald-trump-jr-do-not-appropriate-student-iowa-death-a8519151.html
Same white supremacy group injecting racism into the Florida Governatorial race alongside trump acolyte and GOP candidate Ron “Don’t monkey up this election” DeSantis.

Robocalls against Democratic gubernatorial nominee Andrew Gillum that say they were paid for by a neo-Nazi group in Idaho are going out to voters in Tallahassee.
The automated calls are narrated by someone pretending to be Gillum and using an exaggerated minstrel dialect with jungle noises in the background. The calls end with a disclaimer that they were funded by The Road to Power, an anti-Semitic, white supremacist website and podcast linked to Scott Rhodes of Sandpoint, Idaho….
….

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/08/31/racist-robocalls-tied-neo-nazi-group-targets-andrew-gillum/1157860002/

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 2 2018 14:42 utc | 140

Circe @122 – My interest in Chagall is aesthetic not political, as I am deeply moved by the eastern European expressionist movement of the early 20th century in art.
Chagall painted what he knew which was the Jewish shtetl but his themes were humanistic and universal.
He lived into the 1980s as I recall in the Soviet Union. I’m not aware that he was a zionist as the term is understood today but I haven’t studies him in that way. He was a communist as were so many eastern European jews of the time and place who later became disillusioned with Stalinism. There is always danger in attempting to second guess an artist’s or any individual’s political stance outside of their own historical context.
My guess is he would be as horrified of the reactionary Israeli state today as he was of both Nazi Germany and the excesses of the Soviet state during his lifetime.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 2 2018 15:02 utc | 141

Jack Rabbit – dismantling the “deep state” requires nothing less than dismantling global capitalism. And this means in all the global capitalist countries, including Russia and China too.
Capitalism is a conspiracy of the ruling class to subject the remainder of society. This is truly the only conspiracy that matters. The fact of this conspiracy, however you wish to characterise it among like-minded friends on a blog, doesn’t require constant reiteration it requires a fight, as b stated elsewhere.
This fight is against capitalist repression. And the enemy of the people is as much the Russian, Iranian and Chinese capitalist empires as it is the US, Israeli and Saudi empires.
Nonpartisan? Please don’t kid yourself. You are also reading and speaking from a controlled script written by someone else for their own repressive purposes.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 2 2018 15:24 utc | 142

I wish to state also I don’t see myself on a different side from Jack Rabitt or Tannenhauser at all. I do believe racism to be the primary tool (especially in the US) used to divide and conquer the oppressed people of all colours loosing freedom and life day by day in this unjust world.
We are all tools of someone else’s design. Throwing off our own unnoticed shackles comes before we can destroy the chains placed upon us by our oppressors.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 2 2018 15:46 utc | 143

There are many more conspiracies out there to consider besides these hoary cliches of the “deep state” (aka the entrenched government bureaucracy since at least WWII)…

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 2, 2018 10:42:14 AM | 140

Great intro! Couldn’t wait to read it!
It’s a pity you forgot that it promised to explode hoary cliches, not revive and expand on them. And blame Trump.
0/10.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 2 2018 16:23 utc | 144

Thanks for 143. Yes recognition of the problem being the first step. Big problem seems to be people are lying to themselves and actually try to outdo one another ‘proving’ they aren’t.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 2 2018 16:26 utc | 145

HW – LOL. Good one. TH, thanks

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 2 2018 16:33 utc | 146

File this under “Sometimes they say exactly what they mean”
“Democrats voted to removed automatic delegates from the first round of voting. But we still have seats at the table. We are still in the room and very much capable of setting the menu.”
https://twitter.com/donnabrazile/status/1033442716380803072?lang=en
Jimmy Dore explains…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjzL0aPAFsQ

Posted by: daffyDuct | Sep 3 2018 15:08 utc | 147

All depends how democratic the selection process is.

Posted by: Ray Visino | Sep 4 2018 1:29 utc | 148

noirette… i was away when your comments were posted, including this post that b made of them… i always appreciate reading what you have to say and i think you are right on this new poster person..

Posted by: james | Sep 4 2018 1:37 utc | 149

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 2, 2018 1:19:20 AM | 139
Correction to last paragraph which reads:
“In the very early ’60s Khrushchev floated the idea of joint US/Ru Moon missions but the US said No Thanks. But Kennedy later approached Khrushchev to discuss co-operation. According to Sergei Khrushchev, JFK was killed before those talks got off the ground.”
Since my #139 was based on the narrative in a BBC doco, and I fact-checked what I’d written AFTER I’d submitted it, I’ve discovered that JFK made both initial co-operation suggestions. Here’s what I should have written…
JFK approached Russia twice to suggest joint US/Ru Moon missions, first in June 1961 when Khrushchev declined for military-security reasons. In Autumn 1963 Kennedy again approached Khrushchev who was ready to accept the invitation. According to Sergei Khrushchev, JFK was assassinated soon after and the new President never repeated the offer.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 4 2018 18:16 utc | 150