Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 17, 2018
Helsinki Talks – How Trump Tries To Rebalance The Global Triangle

The reactions of the U.S. polite to yesterday's press conference of Pgresident Trump and President Putin are highly amusing. The media are losing their mind. Apparently it was Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 all in one day. War will commence tomorrow. But against whom?

Behind the panic lie competing views of Grand Strategy.

Rereading the transcript of the 45 minutes long press conference (vid) I find it rather boring. Trump did not say anything that he had not said before. There was little mention of what the two presidents had really talked about and what they agreed upon. Later on Putin said that the meeting was more substantive than he expected. As the two spoke alone there will be few if any leaks. To understand what happened we will have to wait and see how the situations in the various conflict areas, in Syria, Ukraine and elsewhere, will now develop.

The 'liberal' side of the U.S. did its best to prevent the summit. The recent Mueller indictment was timed to sabotage the talks. Before the meeting in Helsinki the New York Times retweeted its three weeks old homophobic comic flick that shows Trump and Putin as lovers. It is truly a disgrace for the Grey Lady to publish such trash, but it set the tone others would follow. After the press conference the usual anti-Trump operatives went ballistic:

John O. Brennan @JohnBrennan – 15:52 UTC – 16 Jul 2018

Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

Senator John McCain released a scathing statement:

… “No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant. Not only did President Trump fail to speak the truth about an adversary; but speaking for America to the world, our president failed to defend all that makes us who we are—a republic of free people dedicated to the cause of liberty at home and abroad. …

These imbeciles do not understand the realism behind Trump's grand policy. Trump knows the heartland theory of Halford John Mackinder.  He understands that Russia is the core of the Eurasian landmass. That landmass, when politically united, can rule the world. A naval power, the U.S. now as the UK before it, can never defeat it. Trump's opponents do not get what Zbigniew Brzezinski, the National Security Advisor of President Carter, said in his book The Grand Chessboard (pdf) about a Chinese-Russian alliance. They do not understand why Henry Kissinger advised Trump to let go of Crimea.

Trump himself professed his view (vid) of the big picture and of relations with Russia in a 2015 press conference:

"…  Putin has no respect for President Obama. Big Problem, big problem. And you know Russia has been driven – you know I always heard, for years I have heard – one of the worst things that can happen to our country, is when Russia ever gets driven to China. We have driven them together – with the big oil deals that are being made. We have driven them together. That's a horrible thing for this country. We have made them friends because of incompetent leadership. I believe I would get along very nicely with Putin- okay? And I mean where we have the strength. I don't think we need the sanctions. I think that we would get along very, very well. I really believe that. I think we would get along with a lot of countries that we don't get along with today. And that we would be a lot richer for it than we are today.

There are three great geographic power-centers in the world. The Anglo-American/transatlantic one which is often called 'the west'. Mackinder's heartland, which is essentially Russia as the core of the Eurasian landmass, and China, which historically rules over Asia. Any alliance of two of those power-centers can determine the fate of the world.

Kissinger's and Nixon's biggest political success was to separate China from the Soviet Union. That did not make China an ally of the United States, but it broke the Chinese-Soviet alliance. It put the U.S. into a premier position, a first among equals. But even then Kissinger already foresaw the need to balance back to Russia:

On Feb. 14, 1972, President Richard Nixon and his national security adviser Henry Kissinger met to discuss Nixon’s upcoming trip to China. Kissinger, who had already taken his secret trip to China to begin Nixon’s historic opening to Beijing, expressed the view that compared with the Russians, the Chinese were “just as dangerous. In fact, they’re more dangerous over a historical period.”

Kissinger then observed that “in 20 years your successor, if he’s as wise as you, will wind up leaning towards the Russians against the Chinese.” He argued that the United States, as it sought to profit from the enmity between Moscow and Beijing, needed “to play this balance-of-power game totally unemotionally. Right now, we need the Chinese to correct the Russians and to discipline the Russians.” But in the future, it would be the other way around.

It took 45 years, not 20 as Kissinger foresaw, to rebalance the U.S. position.

After the Cold War the U.S. thought it had won the big ideological competition of the twentieth century. In its exuberance of the 'unilateral moment' it did everything possible to antagonize Russia. Against its promises it extended NATO to Russia's border. It wanted to be the peerless supreme power of the world. At the same time it invited China into the World Trade Organisation and thereby enabled its explosive economic growth. This unbalanced policy took its toll. The U.S. lost industrial capacity to China and at the same time drove Russia into China's hands. Playing the global hegemon turned out to be very expensive. It led to the 2006 crash of the U.S. economy and its people have seen little to no gains from it. Trump wants to revert this situation by rebalancing towards Russia while opposing China's growing might.

Not everyone shares that perspective. As security advisor to Jimmy Carter Brzezinski continued the Nixon/Kissinger policy towards China. The 'one China policy', disregarding Taiwan for better relations with Beijing, was his work. His view is still that the U.S. should ally with China against Russia:

"It is not in our interest to antagonize Beijing. It is much better for American interests to have the Chinese work closely with us, thereby forcing the Russians to follow suit if they don’t want to be left out in the cold. That constellation gives the U.S. the unique ability to reach out across the world with collective political influence."

But why would China join such a scheme? How would Russia be 'forced'? What costs would the U.S. have to endure by following such a course? (Brzezinski's view of Russia was always clouded. His family of minor nobles has its roots in Galicia, now in west Ukraine. They were driven from Poland when the Soviets extended their realm into the middle of the European continent. To him Russia will always be the antagonist.)

Kissinger's view is more realistic. He sees that the U.S. can not rule alone and must be more balanced in its relations:

[I]n the emerging multipolar order, Russia should be perceived as an essential element of any new global equilibrium, not primarily as a threat to the United States.

Kissinger is again working to divide Russia and China. But this time around it is Russia that needs to be elevated, that needs to become a friend.

Trump is following Kissinger's view. He wants good relations with Russia to separate Russia from China. He (rightly) sees China as the bigger long term (economic) danger to the United States. That is the reason why he, immediately after his election, started to beef up the relations with Taiwan and continues to do so. (Listen to Peter Lee for the details). That is the reason why he tries to snatch North Korea from China's hands. That is the reason why he makes nice with Putin.

It is not likely that Trump will manage to pull Russia out of its profitable alliance with China. It is true that China's activities, especially in the Central Asian -stans, are a long term danger to Russia. China's demographic and economic power is far greater than Russia's.  But the U.S. has never been faithful in its relations with Russia. It would take decades to regain its trust. China on the other hand stands to its commitments. China is not interested in conquering the 'heartland'. It has bigger fish to fry in south-east Asia, Africa and elsewhere. It is not in its interest to antagonize a militarily superior Russia.

The maximum Trump can possibly achieve is to neutralize Russia while he attempts to tackle China's growing economic might via tariffs, sanctions and by cuddling Taiwan, Japan and other countries with anti-Chinese agendas.

The U.S. blew its 'unilateral moment'. Instead of making friends with Russia it drove it into China's hands. Hegemonic globalization and unilateral wars proved to be too expensive. The U.S. people received no gains from them. That is why they elected Trump.

Trump is doing his best to correct the situation. For the foreseeable future the world will end up with three power centers. Anglo-America, Russia and China. (An aging and disunited Europe will flap in the winds.) These power centers will never wage direct war against each other, but will tussle at the peripheries. Korea, Iran and the Ukraine will be centers of these conflicts. Interests in Central Asia, South America and Africa will also play a role.

Trump understands the big picture. To 'Make America Great Again' he needs to tackle China and to prevent a deeper Chinese-Russian alliance. It's the neo-conservatives and neo-liberals who do not get it. They are still stuck in Brzezinski's Cold War view of Russia. They still believe that economic globalization, which helped China to regain its historic might, is the one and true path to follow. They do not perceive  all the damage they have done to 90% of the American electorate.

For now Trump's view is winning. But the lunatic reactions to the press conference show that the powers against him are still strong. They will sabotage him wherever possible. The big danger for now is that their view of the world might again raise to power.

Comments

Daniel et al
This is my view as well.
Adding:
1) The 2016 US Presidential election was very strange. Sanders freely acknowledged that he was a good friend of the Clinton’s, admired Hillary and was pleased to have worked with her for 25 years. He was unperturbed by Hillary’s winning 6 of 6 coin tosses in Iowa and her collusion with the DNC. Sanders also pulled punches during debates.
Sanders pretended to be an outsider but was, in all but name, a senior Democratic Party representative who was supported by Schumer, Obama, and Hillary. For many years, the Democratic Party had refused to fund a Democratic Party opponent to Sanders (who ran as an Independent).
Interestingly, while Sanders had begun his run for the Democratic nomination in 2015, he refused to make his 2015 tax returns public. Despite saying that his taxes were ‘boring’, he would only make ONE YEAR of tax returns public: 2016. Even when reporters hounded him, saying that Hillary had made 10 years of returns public, Sanders wouldn’t budge. Hmm…
Trump was close to the Clinton’s for years. Ivanka and Chelsea are close friends. Trump was the ONLY republican contender that campaigned as a populist at a time of deep dissatisfaction with Obama and the Washington establishment. Soon after winning the election, Trump publicly forgave Hillary, saying the Clinton’s had “been through enough.” This was arguably Trump’s first betrayal of his ‘base’.
As we watched debate after debate, it almost seemed at times that his opponents were caricatures. One-by-one they fell to this neophyte politician. Trump’s ability to pigeon-hole them with amusing nick-names was astounding and endearing to his growing followers. None of these seasoned politicians found an effective way to counter Trump’s populism. They didn’t even seem to try (Rubio Roboto!?! LMFAO). None attempted to make a populist stand themselves. It is as though the path to the Presidency was paved for Trump.
The pivotal moment of the farce came in January 2016 when the FBI delivered a report saying that there HAD BEEN highly secret material on Hillary’s server. Hillary had denied – multiple times and categorically – that ANY secret material had been on her private mail server. Yet she carried on as a deeply flawed candidate!! Bloomberg offered to run as an independent because, he told us, neither Sanders nor Trump could be allowed to win the Presidency. And the ‘Never Trump’ movement was born.
WHY did the DNC field a candidate that was not properly vetted? WHY did the Democratic Party allow Hillary to continue after she had lied about her private email server? WHY did they compound their error by colluding with Hillary against Sanders?
Then a strange thing happened. The entire Republican establishment turned against Trump. Despite Trump’s having asserting his conservative credentials. Despite the fact that Trump had become their only means of winning the Presidency. Despite the fact that they had previously stated how much they despised Hillary.
MAGA!
But this only made Trump’s base love him more. TRUMP didn’t need to claim the title of ‘Maverick’ like John McCain had tried to, Trump LIVED AND BREATHED IT! Or so his base was led to believe. Because since his election, he has betrayed his base many times. Just as Obama had, the faux populist Presidential darling of the Democratic Party. And just like Obama, Trump faced questions of his loyalty to America: Obama faced bogus accusations from ‘Birthers’ (of which Trump was an active member!), while Trump faced bogus accusations that he was compromised by Russia.
Was populist outsider Obama vs. establishment McCain really a choice?
Was populist outsider Trump vs. establishment Hillary really a choice?
Does anyone really believe that a true populist can be elected President in our money-driven, oligarch-centered political system?
Isn’t it clear that USA needed to turn the page after Bush (Iraq War, rendition and torture) and again after Obama (bailing out banksters, using IRS against political opponents, Cold War II)? Many critics came to view Obama as “Bush II” because of his service to the establishment. Isn’t Trump “Bush III”?
Both Obama and Trump have passed tax cuts. Both have promised to fight corruption (Obama: via “transparency”; Trump via “drain the swamp”). Both have served powerful interests (Israel/Saudi; corporate). Both have sought to gut US business and environmental regulations (Obama via joining TPP, Trump without joining TPP). I could go on.

2) Officially, Obama stood by and let ISIS grow because they would help to unseat Assad. Naturally, Obama blamed Assad for the growth of ISIS saying that the hate for Assad and Civil War power vacuum enticed jihadis to join ISIS.
But covert Ops are never acknowledged, so US-Israel-Saudi responsibility for the rise of ISIS is unknown. But clearly that rise required substantial resources prior to ISIS taking Iraq’s second largest city (Mozul) in June 2014.
It gets more suspicious when you consider that Obama’s threat to bomb Syria was stymied in September 2013. At that point, the ‘Assad must go!’ Coalition needed a new strategy. How fortuitous (for the Coalition) that ISIS would start their expansion within weeks of Obama’s decision not to bomb Syria!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 18 2018 5:10 utc | 201

Great post. Thanks

Posted by: earthling1 | Jul 18 2018 5:15 utc | 202

@195
Trump is already attacking Iran’s economy and Iran has been complying with its end of the JCPOA but stupid Trump has ordered everyone to stop importing Iranian oil. India a forever vassal willing to sacrifice its own best interests has already caved. Trump is bribing India in other ways.
In order to mitigate the fall out to the oil market, Trump is ready to tap into Strategic Oil Reserves to scroo Iran.

U.S. government teams visited Saudi Arabia recently to ensure that global markets remain adequately supplied after the deadline. Producers such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Russia have announced their intention to increase supply.

Bloomberg
Russia too??? I told you Putin would betray Iran for Trump’s blessing. What’s next, the Golan Heights property of Israel? Eastern Syria. Et tu Putin? Blech.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 18 2018 5:17 utc | 203

Another parallel:
Both Trump’s supporters and Obama’s supporters excuse betrayals with claims that their “hero” plays 11-dimensional chess.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 18 2018 5:21 utc | 204

“Trumptards” and “Never Trump-ers” are just two sides of the same coin.
Heads they win. Tails, you lose.
Enjoy the show.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 18 2018 5:23 utc | 205

There is no real opposition to the establishment.
There is spin, psy-op, and misdirection.
Have a nice day.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 18 2018 5:25 utc | 206

Bloomberg
Hope third time’s a charm with this link.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 18 2018 5:29 utc | 207

I’ve now had a chance to view the press conference on Russian TV news, with their view of things. The last 24 hours of clips from various news shows at the Vesti News channel on YouTube might give a good flavor of this conference to those who are sensibly unplugged from western sources:
Vesti News .. YouTube
I must say I’m very impressed. The body language, the relationship, the peer equality all stand out clearly. As others have said, Trump shows best around worthy people.
Here’s how one member of the Russian DUMA summarizes the achievements of the meeting, Vyacheslav Nikonov of the United Russia party has the floor on the Russian “60 Minutes” show for a little under 5 of those minutes:
“Just Awesome”: Russian Pundits Outline Point by Point Accomplishments of Helsinki Summit
~~
I’ve said that the principal victory was that Trump could even show up in the first place, but the results are even stronger than that, if they can be maintained. Cooperation on nuclear reduction, terrorism, military channels and even entrepreneurs in their own group to find ways to strengthen cooperation. All of this is very important.
Putin said a very good thing once, talking about the Crimea operation, in “Crimea – the Way Home”. He said that it was important that the head of state was personally involved in the operation. Not that he would micromanage the op, but that all people at all levels understood the direction from the top and could work to this direction in harmony. By contrast, no one in Ukraine really knew who was holding authority in Kiev, and orders were contradictory.
And so it is with any country, and with the US. When all people know that the administration clearly wants to go in a direction, it makes it easier for all levels to work. So this is all very good.
As to the bullshit internally in the US, it will play itself out to its stupefied end. I think it, too, has lost and is fighting battles that erode its being even further. I think Trump sees it this way also. He wants that server, and those emails, and Putin has given him the 12 Russian alleged as wrongdoers, to call Mueller’s bluff with. There will be shit-show moves, like walking back the “would and wouldn’t”, and like the lights going out, but eventually these antics – and they are no more than this – will wear themselves to nothing.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 18 2018 5:43 utc | 208

Thanks Jackrabbit and Circe. You’ve both filled in many of the lines I’d left blank here.
And even with those, we have barely scratched the surface of the overwhelming evidence that the entire (s)election was a psyop. Not that the 0.01% would have “lost” if HRC had “won.” But it’s more apparent by the day that Trump provided a more direct route to tyrannical fascism than the “incrementalism” of Obama/HRC.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 18 2018 6:07 utc | 209

Islamic terrorism falls into two different ‘groupings’ in the current great game.
According to current US doctrine, all Islamist terrorism originates from Iran.
Most see KSA as the backer of Islamic terrorism, but within some circles cognitive dissonance rules.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18 2018 6:08 utc | 210

Bill Browder’s case sounds interesting in many ways
Turns out that Fusion GPS of the Steele Dossier fame also kind of represented Russia against Bill Browder.

For other critics, the Simpson transcript includes a reminder about his potentially conflicting incentives: Fusion GPS has also done work for a law firm that represented the Russian company Prevezon Holdings. Prevezon’s lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, was also present at the 2016 Trump Tower meeting. Fusion GPS has told the Washington Post that it “had no prior knowledge” of that meeting and denied any involvement.

So is the dirt Russia has on Trump in the Steele dossier and is Russia’s leverage that they can prove it – or not?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 6:23 utc | 211

somebody
Trump is ruthless as a businessman. If anybody had dirt, it would be CIA, FBI, NSA. Rodgers, head of NSA briefed Trump shortly after he took office. This is why Trump is so confident in taking down the CIA and FBI political animals.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18 2018 6:34 utc | 212

For those enamored with Mazaheri and his propaganda in support of the Islamic part of the Republic of Iran, please apply your critical thinking and look into multiple sources.
eg. One of his articles was based on a demonstrably false premise. To wit: “The primary demand of the 1979 revolution was to immediately de-couple Iran from the West completely…”
This is just plain not true…. but is exactly what the Islamists (and AZ Empirists) want us to believe. The revolutionary government of Iran had signed contracts with Western corporations, and even some Western states before the Ayatollah’s boys took over. As I noted above, the urban Iranians love Western culture, even today, after 40 years of anti-Western propaganda.
It was the “hostage crisis” that allowed the Ayatollah to hijack the revolution, and that started over a year after the Shah had been forced to flee the country.
And it was the “hostage crisis” and its results that turned many Iranians against the West more generally. Between that and the Basij and Savama crackdown on leftists that left thousands dead and tens of thousands imprisoned, the real revolution was destroyed.
That is, the Islamic Revolution looks like a classic counter-revolution.
The first President of the Republic of Iran, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr wrote an insightful article
Please note that Bani-Sadr won the 1980 election with 76% of the vote on a strongly anti-Embassy occupation/hostage platform. In fact, “…96 percent of votes in that election were given to candidates who were against [the embassy/hostages situation].” And since the Ayatollah and his boys were strongly backing the hostage crisis, those votes were quite clearly against the Islamics.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 18 2018 6:42 utc | 213

Recent reports from the commoners in EU suggest NERO movement is gaining momentum – Putin is piece of strategy. Deflection serves build up of wealth with indeterminate consequences for US citizens – DT is seeking membership in THE club to build personal wealth. No sophisticated diplomacy here – just deception to mask a simple goal. Risk is extremely high but payoff worth the risk for potential single beneficiary. Not so for we the citizens. Cannot accept a bone today only to go hungry tomorrow in a broken world order.

Posted by: Alestra | Jul 18 2018 7:58 utc | 214

Here we have a chance to study the next reality in the making. A chance to get ahead of Rove. The next reality – multi polar win win, or bi-polar global energy dominance?

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18 2018 8:16 utc | 215

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18, 2018 2:34:17 AM | 211
Not on the territory of the ex-Soviet Union. Trump was interested in business there. It is very likely that the Steele dossier was fed with Russian disinformation.
The whole affair is politicized nonsense anyway, UAE, Saudi and Israel did more to elect Trump than Russia might have done.
Hillary alienated everybody by blaming Saudi for ISIS, and Israel certainly did not trust her.
The “international of oligarchs against tax and regulation” has many Russian connections. The interesting part is there is a pro and anti Putin split depending on the oligarch’s standing with the Russian government.
This House of Commons Report coincided with the Skripal case
It is interesting. It comes down to “oligarchs controlled by Putin” against “oligarchs out of favor with Putin”.
Fact is that Trump’s act in Brussels, London and Helsinki worked for Putin, but not for him.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 8:18 utc | 216

Global triangle not for long: India is coming up to make it quadrilateral. PR China is its aggressive neighbor while Russia has been its most reliable alley. Kissinger dumbly supported Pakistan and China and now those ghosts are out of their bottles – all this to get the US out of the Vietnam war quagmire. Allying with other crooks gave US deep state neo-nazis in Ukraine and ISIS/ Al Qaida in Syria.
Ignoring PR China is the Brennan-Strzok-Mueller-Clinton line; profitable on the short run but suicidal.

Posted by: Antonyl | Jul 18 2018 8:26 utc | 217

No one seem to offer the obvious conspiracy theory that Trump, Putin and Xi all wish to have good relations between their countries with good old capitalist competition and trade as well. As evidence, Putin has incredible weapons but does not use them. Trump has endless military might that it seems could overwhelm any enemy but he only uses it sparingly. Xi has absolutely enormous military manpower and huge military resources but prefers to keep them for parades and exercises. The real threat appears to me to be the intelligence agencies, the media they control and those gung ho politicians and Generals whose jobs depend on there being enemies or threats to manufacture weapons against. For example, John Brennan who was hanging around in Ukraine at the time MH17 was diverted over a war zone and shot down.
Xi has invited the USA to participate in the “One Belt One Road” initiative perhaps with a tunnel under the Bering Strait, joining mainland America with Asia. So far this has been made politically impossible thanks to the enemies of Humanity that seem to flourish in the USA.

Posted by: Ike | Jul 18 2018 8:44 utc | 218

Antonyl 216
You have an extremely small population base in practice compared to China. Small number of educated elite, large number of uneducated peasants all living within the tiered class system.
What India does domestically is totally up to India, and I have no problems with that, but when nutters start thinking their India will out do or equal China in the great power game…

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18 2018 8:52 utc | 219

Xi has invited the USA to participate in the “One Belt One Road” initiative perhaps with a tunnel under the Bering Strait, joining mainland America with Asia. So far this has been made politically impossible thanks to the enemies of Humanity that seem to flourish in the USA.
Posted by: Ike | Jul 18, 2018 4:44:56 AM | 217
For cargo, land transport is competitive only if the route is much shorter than water route. Land route is also expensive to build, so it has to have a sufficient demand to use its shorter sectors. If you follow the shore of northern Pacific, there is no particular demand on shorter sectors between Vladivostok and Vancouver, and this is an ENORMOUS distance, perhaps twice longer than the distance to cross lower 48 states of USA. Keep in mind that economic calculation for the tunnel under English Channel is so-so, even though there is huge short-distance demand. The passenger train is more expensive than flying, trucks and buses are actually justifying the Chunnel very well. And this tunnel connects the pair of largest urban centers of Europe and enormous industrial concentrations. Decrease short-medium demand 10 times, there is no compelling economic sense, but there could be “national logic”, like for the tunnel between two largest Japanese islands or the bridge to Crimea. Decrease short-medium demand 100 times, there is no way in the universe to justify it.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 18 2018 9:16 utc | 220

Posted by: Ike | Jul 18, 2018 4:44:56 AM | 217
all wish to have good relations between their countries with good old capitalist competition and trade as well
Good old capitalist competition has always lead to war. You need cooperation.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 9:38 utc | 221

This here is probably the best reasoning for what Trump is doing, never mind geopolitics
Trump views EU, not Russia, as problem for trade: Analyst

US President Donald Trump views the European Union “as a problem” amid a trade war with major allies in Europe, but he appreciates Russia as a potential trade partner, says an analyst.

“I think he looks at the world from a nationalist perspective where other countries either can be cooperative with what he sees in our national interests or they can be opposed to them, I think he does look at the European Union as a problem for the United States on trades specifically which is the same way I think he looks at China,” he said.
“Russia simply does not present that kind of problem for us when it comes to trade and I think he appreciates that fact,” he told Press TV.
“I don’t think he necessarily has an agenda to break up the EU, but I think he realizes that the rising forces of nationalism, as we now saw with the formation of a new government in Italy, provide some leverage for him to get a better deal and a better arrangement for the United States.”

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 9:55 utc | 222

The real battle front is not between nation and nation, but between the super rich and the poor ! Trump is the demolition team and recking ball. He’s been used to devide and weaken the public successfully. Just as the paid for rebels were used to devide Syria ect ect. The true agenda being depopulation !! We’re not needed any more ! In there eyes. For that reason, Syria’s and Irans fight for survival is our fight for survival. The middle class property owners voted trump in thinking they were above the fray, and could join the greed. Little knowing that like the paid for Syrian rebels, when there not needed eny more they to will be thrown under the bus ! At the moment the middle class are there to win the vote and have there assets stripped ! If the above is the problem the solution is for us all to see the true enemy and unite against them i e the super rich ! So when trump has served there purpose he will be under the bus with the rest of us. Possibley now! In the u k they pulled the same trick with Nigel farage. Same monkey’s using the same old trick. Result—- murdering millions of inocent people and 70 million displaced.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 10:20 utc | 223

@207 Greived
Great links. I think what is stark and the obvious takeaway from watching the Russia1 discourse after watching the ‘free’ world, western MSM…is that there is actual discourse. How broken is the west when Russia1 is doing a better job at the western ideal of a free fourth estate operating as a check and balance upon power…? How far is Russia and its people getting ahead here when such open and sane evaluation is there for all to digest…?
The best, as far as the western MSM got was Rand Paul demolishing Wolf Blister for 10 minutes…compelling but still a shit show as character assassination is clearly the goal, and so not analysis. It’s what you get with superconcentrated media power…6 media logos all screaming the one singular narrative. Broken. A Free Media shouldn’t mean: all media free to be owned by the one entity. I cant actually see that being repaired without a major, major crisis of some description (financial first likely as asset bubbles are wound down.) But Bernays’ project is closer to the end than the middle.
As you say, The Don merely showing up, despite the domestic shower of shite, is symbolic enough…thus, respect is shown for Russia, its patch and its alliances, is shown before a word is yet spoken. As it should be, wherever collective incineration is an option.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jul 18 2018 10:56 utc | 224

b, great article, really good. One aspect to take on consideration is the economic fragility of the US moving forward to the next decade or two, this will play an important role in global geopolitics. The US-Russia “rebalancing” is not only vital for the US but it is a way to secure a soft landing when the economic “rebalancing” happens…and the EU is just in the middle of this “rebalancing”, no major word to say but a market worth sharing with Russia.
MoA rocks.

Posted by: Canthama | Jul 18 2018 11:25 utc | 225

Ike@217 “”No one seems to offer the obvious conspiracy theory that Trump, Putin and Xi all wish to have good relations between their countries with good old capitalist competition and trade as well.””
somebody@220 “”Good old capitalist competition has always lead to war. You need cooperation.””
Grieved@207 “”I’ve said that the principal victory was that Trump could even show up in the first place, but the results are even stronger than that, if they can be maintained. Cooperation on nuclear reduction, terrorism, military channels and even entrepreneurs in their own group to find ways to strengthen cooperation.””
Bill Mitchell in his new book ‘Reclaiming the State: A Progressive Vision of Sovereignty for a Post-Neoliberal World’ has an introduction called -Make the Left Great Again.
There is a push for National Sovereignty now to counteract global neoliberalism but it is being led by right and extreme right groups.
He argues for a more progressive version of popular rule, local autonomy and egalitarian traditions.
He sees this as a building block for a new international(ist) world order based on interdependent but independent sovereign states.
A lot of worthwhile projects could be taken on by such a large pooling of resources and commitment such as dealing with global warming.
Also kudos to MadMax2@227 and Canthama@228

Posted by: financial matters | Jul 18 2018 11:44 utc | 226

It takes money to project power.
GDP:
USA – 18.6
EU – 16.5
China – 11.2
Russia – 1.2

Posted by: Bob | Jul 18 2018 12:02 utc | 227

Peter AU 1 @ 159:
Catherine Brown, “Deconstructing Russophobia”
https://off-guardian.org/2016/06/16/deconstructing-russophobia/

Posted by: Jen | Jul 18 2018 12:04 utc | 228

Lots to read here, but I am skipping ahead to thank karlof1 for his determined posting of links back on the first page of comments. (I too have often copied something important and then to my chagrin copied over it – it’s nice to know the experts do as well.) I’ll just post a piece of the Garrick essay, as I didn’t yet look at the summit press conference in detail:
“Putin also mentioned that just as individuals in Russia do not necessarily represent the Russian state, billionaires in the US including George Soros do not reflect the official policy of the US leadership.”
I had previously commented that dealing with the oligarch situation would be a topic under consideration, so was happy to read that, and also Trump’s highlighted comment – “I would rather take a politicak risk to pursue peace than to risk peace in pursuit of politics.” I think this was not a grandiose statement but what both men have in common. That is, both see that ultimate power resides with the people, not with big money interests. I do think they have this in common, whatever their differences and their faults.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 18 2018 12:57 utc | 229

@227 Bob
A true enough statement, money talks, no argument. Re: The list…hmm, I always wonder the value in US or EU unit of currency when measured up against a Russian unit of currency. With necessity being the mother of invention (Russia sanctions VS growing diverse, robust domestic markets, building alliances) and the US suffering from large over valuations born of horrific misappropriations of funds… And well, how much is a dollar ‘really’ worth… yeah more dollars than sense as they say.
Add Gold acquisition in the mix as a previous poster has said and I’d say the ruble adheres to more ‘sound money’ principles than the USD/EUR. A better long term prospect as this thread illustrate is from start to finish with ever focussing on the financial side so much.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jul 18 2018 13:40 utc | 230

karlof1 @ 85,
you post that it was better to read the transcript of the Fox interview with Putin. Actually, I found in this case it was more enlightening to watch, simply because of the interaction between Chris Wallace and Putin. I thought both understood the importance of the message they were conveying to the US public, and that Wallace’s demeanor was anything but insulting. I have seen Charlie Rose interviews with Putin that were nothing short of the latter, with his ‘exeptionalism’ demeanor extremely offensive and Putin barely able to contain his irritation at the insult that conveyed. Mr. Wallace was not at all presenting his questions in that manner, and even his attempts to interrupt were mild in the extreme. He surely knows the aggressive manner in which his father would proceed, and he has avoided that path.
I think a lot is to be gained from the video presentation, so would recommend the viewing of it.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 18 2018 13:43 utc | 231

Dems, Left Wing Media Claim Russian Hacking an ‘Act of War’
https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/07/17/dems-left-wing-media-claim-russian-hacking-an-act-of-war/

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 18 2018 14:05 utc | 232

Still working on the third page – but wanted to give kudos to Active Potato back on the second (around #168) and noticed b’s interjection about not being impatient with posts disappearing – it is an indication of the importance of this summit that we have so many opposing views in evidence here, but I sure go with the idea that Grieved expressed about Trump’s ability to morph into a statesman when the occasion requires.
I just think that these two men know well what it means to be enmeshed in adversarial conflict. I haven’t a clue about Russian news media and opinion shows – would imagine Putin faced a similar Aegean stable when he first assumed his position – with that focus on what is good for the Russian people as a whole seeming to aid and abet him in his accomplishments. He knows so well what we face in the US because he has been there, and still is to some degree.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 18 2018 14:12 utc | 233

Daniel @176: “I came to see the whole operation as a brilliant psyop about the time of the Party Conventions.”
The problem with psyops, particularly brilliant ones, is that unless one is the Director or Producer of such a psyop, or otherwise intimately involved in crafting the script, it is impossible to know for sure whether it is a psyop or merely the confluence of millions of disparate thoughts and actions in which some actors have more voice and/or influence than others but the competitive nature of the activities, plots and counter plots, produces a tension and conflict that results in ‘Trump Time.’ Perhaps the actual psyop is getting people to believe it was all planned from the start, so as to hide from them the hope that the system is losing its iron grip.
I am not saying you’re wrong, Daniel; just saying you will never know.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 18 2018 14:19 utc | 234

Circe @177: “Stop trying to portray Trump as an activist, Activist Potato.”
I was not attempting to portray Trump as an activist, in the sense that I believe his MAGA agenda is a legitimate movement – led by him – to bring about real and meaningful change for the good of all the people. I was pointing out that, regardless of what motives one might attribute to the man, he is having an iconoclastic impact in the mainstream. If he is indeed cleverly and calculatedly manipulating the tinfoil hat crowd, he is bringing it into the mainstream in the process. This is not necessarily a bad thing – unless he starts talking about the Democrats and certain Republicans being Reptilians or under the influence of malign Alien races (from Space, not from Mexico).
Your views on Trump are well-chronicled in this blog and duly noted. When the Trump Era is over, we will probably know more definitively what drove his actions during his Presidency and what interests he represented. If he turns out to be close to what you say he is I will join the chorus of “Circe told us so.” But I am not ready to pass judgement on him yet – I am merely watching in amazement, dismay, disgust, amusement and fascination all at the same time.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 18 2018 14:42 utc | 235

Or are we just programend lap tops, repeating the same old computer virus,the deep state has infected us with through relentless media disinformation. I’d rather be a human with compassion for my fellow human being.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 14:44 utc | 236

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 18, 2018 5:16:31 AM | 220
“For cargo, land transport is competitive only if the route is much shorter than water route. Land route is also expensive to build, so it has to have a sufficient demand to use its shorter sectors”
One aspect to consider.
Ocean going max+ size container ships or bulk carrier ships are very, very efficiently loaded, travel 1,000’s km and are very, very efficiently unloaded. The most efficient method of moving a full large cargo x 1,000km. Agree.
Once at the ports they are loaded onto trucks and rail bogies. Not river vessels, usually. Why, smaller cargo sizes, multiple unconnected demand centres, customers, by rivers for the river boats. Delivered to individual customers in a timely manner.
Now measure the efficiency of a “coaster vessels”. Dipping in and out of ports loading and unloading small %s of the boats capacity at potentially less than a container full loads. Low loading and unloading efficiency. Multiple handling.
Both methods have no connection with the ultimate markets during the cost effective ocean voyages.Hence no income except at mega ports spaced sparingly along a coastline. Those coastlines with none such as the Russian north eastern coast, Arctic coast, Canada West coast ……..attract very little population or investment.
Who cares if all the customers/demand centres live in the mega-ports along the coastline, nobody.
To a large extent the world does not live in mega-ports. The population may in fact move to the mega-ports to obtain work, but leave their roots and in many countries their families behind. Out of necessity, not always choice.
The world can now support various size groupings of industry, villages,towns and cities. Trains, trucks and buses, if the roads and tracks are available and not seasonal mud tracks, can move trainloads or bulk cargoes thousands of miles. Likewise smaller, fit for purpose, local trains, buses or trucks can move smaller cargoes shorter distances from rail yards to the customer, demand centre or industrial sites. Many are suggesting the costs of autonomous “green powered” vehicles will offer far better costs per mile. Some countries do have efficient canal and river transport systems but not many. This enables the old market towns to thrive as collecting points for products, grown or produced locally but also distribution hubs for further afield grown or produced products. Services, local governance and paid and provided by local, not central government, to fit local demands. Sure not every city will have or require top draw facilities but if the locals want, can afford, can collectively decide and maintain an ice hockey rink, why not?
There is the additional benefit that the workers who in many paces, are deserting their homes, can stay and prosper locally instead of visiting homes, wives and children etc. one or two weeks a year.The mass migration, we see worldwide, causing integration problems is abolished, the clashes of differing customs and lifestyles is abolished.
At the expense of longer term planning, sufficient capital resources or affordable credit, many of today’s ills can be overcome.
Some are trying this route today. The days of shipping bigger guns to the colonies, raping and pillaging the locals, through brute force and imposing the Empresses will, is thankfully over.

Posted by: OhOh | Jul 18 2018 15:00 utc | 237

reply to:58
“Putin probably reminded Trump about all the dirt they have on him. The brash arrogant personality with which Trump dazzles his intellectually-challenged base was nowhere to be seen during the following presser. He had the mien of a dog that’s been kicked in the ass. Probably wondering what Melania will say when she sees the piss tape.”Posted by: peter | Jul 17, 2018 1:02:12 PM
Maybe,but I think he looked more like someone who had just looked into the abyss.
I think Putin told him, possibly even showed him, just how really, really bad a bunch he is up against, what they have planned for him and possibly his family if they lose in Nov and how far and wide the Clinton tentacles reach.
Trump may not have known about HC’s $400million campaign contribution of Russian origin and the IC’s communities role in getting it done; I think that news may be why he chose to disparage the FBI cabal in his speech.
I see him as an unpolished but very brave man, up against a very rough crowd and if he fails in his effort to restore US nationalism, we are all in for a rough time.

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 15:12 utc | 238

reply to:
“some of my fav posts.. @21 active potato… @28 vk… @32 frances…@44 karlof1.. @47 el Al.. #53 dh-mtl..”
Posted by: james | Jul 17, 2018 1:42:46 PM | 70
Thanks James, I appreciate your perspective as well.

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 15:21 utc | 239

Grieved @190–
Thanks so very much for your feedback; it’s quite vital as it helps my motivation! Had a very lengthy and somewhat heated discussion with my wife over recent events and about Iran as she’s absorbed too much BigLie Media crap about the Islamic Republic and needed to be figuratively slapped with reality, the episode proving to me how difficult it will be to overcome the ongoing demonization of Iran since 1980 and resulting brainwashing of millions just as with the Anti-Communist Crusade. For me however, the big point to try and get across is the very real ideological divide between what the West’s been promoting for decades versus the New Way arising in Eurasia–Zerosumism versus WinWinism–and the future impact Cold War2 will have as this will be far more heated than Cold War1, whose touted ideological divide was used to mask neocolonialism by the imperialist nations.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 15:26 utc | 240

195 – Little Sergei never went to law school. He was Browder’s tax attorney.
I’m still amazed at Browder’s ability to sell himself to the likes of McCain, Biden, Schumer and whoever else bought his story.
What I recall of the Magnitsky Act was that Putin retaliated by cancelling the ability of Americans to adopt Russia babies. As usual it was the uninvolved who suffered.

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Jul 18 2018 15:44 utc | 241

Jackrabbit @ 206 said:”There is no real opposition to the establishment.”
“There is spin, psy-op, and misdirection.”
Afraid you’re right..Big organised money is sweeping the globe in the form of neo-liberal, anti-worker policies.

Posted by: ben | Jul 18 2018 15:47 utc | 242

Trump is whistling past the graveyard.
There is absolutely no daylight between Russia and China.
Both have already de-dollarized by borrowing against their USTs
(Great)Game over.

Posted by: Winston | Jul 18 2018 15:52 utc | 243

juliania @229 & 231–
Thanks very much for your feedback and advice. Yes, I know I miss the body-language messages by not watching, and quite frankly my memory works better with print versus oral; so, that’s another consideration of mine. Incredible as it seems, FOX News has become a more credible font versus CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and NBC, but it must do much more if it’s going to shake free of being seen as a member of BigLie Media.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 16:05 utc | 244

We have not even begun to look into the extent of Trump’s business dealings with Russia, we know that Eric mentioned that they and Deutsche Bank were the only people loaning them money in 2008, and these guys don’t want to be paid back, they want a piece of the action.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 18 2018 16:30 utc | 245

USA=ISIS
Israel=Saudi Arabia
Jews=Muslim terrorists
Merkel=Putin=Netanyahu=Trump=May
European Union=Rothschilds
You=piece of shit
For making the above happen.

Posted by: Art Best | Jul 18 2018 16:44 utc | 246

The Devil can travel half way round the world before apathy has got his boots on !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 17:03 utc | 247

“His view is still ”
You’re getting better and and better it feels, b. Within my as always limited grasp as casual observer: “still”, shouldn’t this ne combined with “was”? Or, maybe alternatively needs some kind of amendment like: the Zbig school of geopolicis still widely shared …
The very, very best …

Posted by: LeaNder | Jul 18 2018 17:15 utc | 248

Frances @278
DT’s walkback on Russian “interference” during the elections.
Trump had no choice; Bannon called him “treasonous”. Note that Bannon is head of the CIA. The CIA were said to be created by the Rothschilds, it has even been called “Rothschilds’ private army”. The Rothschilds have interests in the “Central Bank” system and they are a major part of the ownership group of the Fed. Now – who tried to cut the CIA down to size, and wrote a Presidential order eliminating the “federal reserve” as the “official” printer of US dollars?
JFK of course, and what happened to him?
Bannon made a clear threat to DT.
To continue (Federal reserve); The US dollar and de-dollarization are part of a continuing process, started some time ago, and which now form part of many countries financial dealings. The Banking infrastructures which need to be replaced for the dollar to be set aside from international finance (The equivalents of the WB, Swift, IMF et al), are more or less in place. BUT you will NOT hear a general call “now we drop the dollar”, as this is being done “boiling frog style”, slowly and carefully. Putin’s elimination of the majority of the Russian held US Treasuries should be seen as a warning that this process is very far along the line, and the debt based Financial system may well call-in those debtors who have not taken precautions to protect themselves.. (The amount of US Treasuries Russia sold was not enormous, slightly less than $100billion. They probably went to pay off the last debts contracted in dollars?)
However, the Fed and it’s tentacles are desperate, but I think they are too late to do anything about the underlying trend. As not having found or joined a “win-win” situation (as Karlofi has said) they will be pushed aside.
One last link; This is the first time I have seen an supplier of electronic software for voting machines, admit that there were “backdoor accesses” built in. Note that the real possibility for vote trickery comes AFTER the votes have been made but not the Totals “assembled”
how to flip votes

Posted by: stonebird | Jul 18 2018 17:19 utc | 249


Your views on Trump are well-chronicled in this blog and duly noted. When the Trump Era is over, we will probably know more definitively what drove his actions during his Presidency and what interests he represented. If he turns out to be close to what you say he is I will join the chorus of “Circe told us so.” But I am not ready to pass judgement on him yet – I am merely watching in amazement, dismay, disgust, amusement and fascination all at the same time.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 18, 2018 10:42:32 AM | 235

Thanks to Trump’s victory over HR Clinton, a lot of people have come to realise that he helped the world dodge a bullet and are prepared to extend the benefit of the doubt. Amazingly, Putin has indicated that he too is on board with giving Trump room to move as ambiguously as Trump sees fit.
In the post-summit press conference transcript linked in b’s intro, Putin makes the following remark during the Russia Meddling phase of the Media Q & A:
VladimirPutin: Regarding whom you can believe and whom you can’t, you shouldn’t believe anyone. What makes you think President Trump trusts me and that I fully trust him? He defends the interests of the United States of America. I defend the interests of the Russian Federation. We do have converging interests, and we are seeking common ground. We have issues that we disagree on so far. We are seeking options to settle these differences and make our work more constructive.
We should not rely on the momentary political interests of some internal political forces in our countries but on facts. Tell me at least one fact that proves collusion during the election campaign in the United States. This is total nonsense. We did not know each other, the President just said this. It is only natural that the Russian public developed a certain attitude towards the candidates. There is nothing unusual about this.

That is Putin confirming that he knows that Trump, like many previous POTUSes is under pressure from The Swamp (which Putin refers to as the Permanent USA Bureaucracy) to toe The Swamp line. He’s telling Trump not to worry about zig-zagging, changing his mind, or contradicting himself because “we don’t, and won’t, believe anything US Presidents say until we see proof. So say whatever you need to say in AmeriKKKa because we’re in wait-and-see mode.”
And Putin had to get that message across at Helsinki because anyone could have predicted that Trump would be greeted with ‘widespread disapproval’ upon his return to AmeriKKKa and be obliged to backtrack. But Putin won’t mind because he knows how The Swamp operates.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2018 17:25 utc | 250

reply to: 92
The Russians didn’t do it. The Chinese did, according to well-placed FBI sources.” http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/07/httpstruepunditcomfbi-lisa-page-dimes-out-top-fbi-officials-during-classified-house-testimony-bureau-bos.html Posted by: Anya | Jul 17, 2018 3:01:55 PM | 92
Well, not to disparage that possibility but the NYPD have a copy from Weiner’s laptop and, as she had no security on her laptop to speak of, I am sure every country with the possible exception of Tuvalu have a copy at this point.

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 17:33 utc | 251

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 18, 2018 12:30:36 PM | 246
And that is surprising as a lot of people must know about it.
This is a British take on it

Robert Amsterdam, a lawyer at international law firm Amsterdam & Partners with considerable experience in Russian affairs, told The Independent there was “no question” that US intelligence agencies and the FBI had information about Trump’s financial dealings with Russian entities prior to the 2016 US election.
“Trump’s relationship with Russia goes back many, many years. I’m sure the FBI was monitoring it,” he said.
If the FBI and or other US intelligence agencies did know about any financial burden Mr Trump had with Russian lenders, it will raise further questions over why the information was not released earlier, especially given the FBI’s approach to Mr Trump’s opposition candidate Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election.
FBI Director James Comey infamously sent a letter on 28 October – just 11 days before Americans went to the polls – to Congress stating the agency found new, pertinent emails in its ongoing investigation into then-candidate Ms Clinton’s use of a private email server for messages containing classified information.
Mr Amsterdam said one possible explanation is “that the FBI has an informer who was once part of the Trump organisation” and that information was not released in order to protect that source.

My guess is that Russia has used the same tools the US and Britain worked with to undermine Russia – religious conservatives, the international of oligarchs, nationalism, Chechens, the NRA, whoever splitting instead of uniting, to undermine “the West”.
Russia has won the hybrid war.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 17:42 utc | 252

Re: Fox… it must do much more if it’s going to shake free of being seen as a member of BigLie Media.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18, 2018 12:05:23 PM | 244
Just to add to the convo between you and james from page 1 re:the Fox interview Putin gave immediately after the summit. It was the first thing i watched post summit. Fox was given the platform, unsurprisingly I guess, but as james mentioned it was hard viewing initially because of the way the interview was being framed re: Russian interference (+ annoying interruptions from the interviewer). Putin handled it like a pro, knows the game inside out, proper statesman, knowledgeable…has every angle covered…and throw a few angles himself as per usual.
And this is Fox, allegedly with a pro Trump slant, so I don’t for a second think the interviewer himself was buying the narrative he was selling in the first 8-10 minutes…but, such is the state of decay of the media and so strong and singular is the narrative since Hilary lost, that I believe Fox is forced to appear to be stricken by Trump Derangement Syndrome..simply to not appear as though the show isn’t a Trump love in.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jul 18 2018 17:42 utc | 253

reply to 104
Remove the Iranian leadership and military with a few hours of fire and fury and it’s game over.Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 17, 2018 3:59:31 PM | 104
Yep, because that plan worked so well last time in Iran and has worked so well in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Syria…are you in weapons sales by any chance:)

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 17:44 utc | 254

Hoarsewhisperer @251–
Beautifully dissected–Bravo!
In similar vein is this analysis by Rostislav Ishchenko, translated by Ollie Richardson and Angelina Siard; a small excerpt:
“So, we have a situation where both parties even prior to negotiations knew that they wouldn’t be able to come to some arrangement, and they didn’t even prepare for such a thing (it wasn’t planned to sign anything following the results of negotiations). At the same time both parties needed the event to be successful. Trump obviously blackmails the European Union with a possible agreement with Russia. But Putin also needs to show Europe that there are other fish in the sea besides them.”
The primary thesis is the summit was a unmitigated disaster for EU, an angle I hadn’t considered. The logic of the argument is reasonable but doesn’t allow itself to be easily presented in an excerpt, although what follows is indicative:
“For Europe this is a catastrophe. It means that in the near future Washington has to avoid strengthening the confrontation with Russia, because dialogue with it started to be outlined with the possibility of arriving at some agreements. What was so constructive about what Trump offered to Putin that made the Russian president sharply raise his assessment of the productivity of the meeting, nobody knows. But Europeans know the American tradition – brought to perfection by Trump – of solving their problems at the expense of former allies when their services become unneeded. And they are afraid and try to guess who (or what) Washington decided to sacrifice this time.”
As far as I know, the one-to-one between Trump and Putin was conducted in English without any translators, while Putin had a small notebook, which he may or may not have used. I know Putin will confide in his aides, but will Trump confide in Bolton and/or Pompeo? And was the EU the ultimate loser as the linked analysis argues?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 17:47 utc | 255

somebody
You believe Russia wage a “hybrid war” against the US?

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 18 2018 17:56 utc | 256

karlof1

As far as I know, the one-to-one between Trump and Putin was conducted in English without any translators

That is probably wrong.
What did Trump promise Putin? Bring his interpreter to Congress & find out, Democrats insist
https://www.rt.com/usa/433572-democrats-trump-putin-translator/

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 18 2018 17:59 utc | 257

Posted by: frances | Jul 18, 2018 1:33:10 PM | 252
(Clinton’s computer sent all but 4 emails to “China”)
I’m sceptical of PL’s insider scoop too. But he got quite stroppy with the author of a comment at SST who dared to question the authenticity of the scoop. So PL is very firmly rusted onto the idea.
My Inner Cynic says that PL is on pretty safe ground because a SNAFU of this magnitude and importance is far more likely to be sent to Archive Heaven for 50 years than revealed to We The People when the probe publishes its conclusions.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2018 17:59 utc | 258

Karlofi @ 256
That concept is extremely possible, we’ll give you Europe and you let us have the Middle East ! One of them say’s and what about Britain? At which point, they both fall about laughing!! Let um drown !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 18:13 utc | 259

Russia and China will NEVER BE SEPARATED. Check the Saker’s “China-Russia Double Helix”. Iran is a silent partner. This is Mackinder’s and Zabig’s ‘Nightmare Scenario’. This triangle is and will be the most powerful player on the World Stage. Eventually Africa will move into that camp because they know what the Anglozionist gang represents.

Posted by: William H Warrick III MD | Jul 18 2018 18:15 utc | 260

For those clicking the link I provided @256, I highly suggest reading GeorgeG’s long comment, which is currently last in the comment queue.
MadMax2 @254–
Intriguing hypothesis. Now I’ll have to watch the video. Thanks!
Zanon @258–
Yes, I’m incorrect as proven by this video clearly showing each having a translator present with notepads.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 18:22 utc | 261

reply to:116
I just know that Bolton crafted this damage control; maybe he cooked it up with Giuliani.Posted by: Circe | Jul 17, 2018 4:26:11 PM | 116
Nope, Bolton only helps Bolton and Giuliani only talks in circles, this save was via Pompeo IMO.

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 18:23 utc | 262

reply to:129
Trump strategy re Russia and China, if you cant beat them join them. Posted by: stonebird | Jul 17, 2018 5:45:32 PM | 129
Trump is a very successful NY and elsewhere real estate developer, that means a long history of working with/confronting mafias, unions, cartels worldwide and everywhere beating up on vendors to get the best deal.
He is doing the exact same beating up upon the world leadership and he is getting some if not all of what he wants and what he wants is trade/profits/jobs for the US.
Yes, I too think he sees a win-win in aligning with Russia and China but only after he beats up on China. IMO his primary objective is to get a global energy cartel arrangement in place with Russia. He wants to centralize control of the world’s resources and sees Russia as having the brains to do it with him. IMO this objective is what Tillerson was supposed to structure but he decidedly and badly underestimated Trump, the sky only has one sun.
It is easy to dismiss him because of his brashness and his plain-spokenness but Trump wants to be remembered as THE best President in US history and he might pull it off. If he can get Putin to back him he definitely can pull off the world energy cartel piece of the puzzle and Putin’s gem re Hillary and the $400 million says he may be up for a new game.
I wish him well for no one else on the US political horizon has his moxie plus the US military appears to has his back so he won’t be taken down easily. We will see.

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 19:00 utc | 263

257 Of course. They all do. See Bolton’s NRA message in Russian.
They are blaming the Bolton video now on Maria Butina.
Trump was active in Georgia and Kazakhstan – to spread the American way of life, I suppose. Both countries are under US influence/open to the US. The schemes he was involved with were money laundering schemes.
He would have been a good source for any secret service wishing to know what was going on in the post-Soviet sphere.
Trump’s liking for gambling casinos and the Miss Universe contest would also have worked for people interested in human weaknesses.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 19:05 utc | 264

Russia’s Ambassador to US: “The meeting was important, intense, constructive and productive. I believe that important verbal agreements were made,” the actual quote differing with the headline, making it misleading: “‘Important verbal agreements’ made at Trump-Putin summit – Russian ambassador to US.” No further explanation provided. Clearly, Antonov’s speculating, or perhaps deliberately yet subtly planting disinformation. Either he “thinks” (“believes”) important agreements were made, or he “thinks” the agreements made are important. However, “The US National Security Council was even more taciturn than the Russian side, saying in a statement that it was “reviewing the discussion… considering the next steps” and had “nothing further to announce at this time.””

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 19:09 utc | 265

karlof1
“As far as I know, the one-to-one between Trump and Putin was conducted in English without any translators”
That is probably wrong.
What did Trump promise Putin? Bring his interpreter to Congress & find out, Democrats insist
https://www.rt.com/usa/433572-democrats-trump-putin-translator/
Posted by: Zanon | Jul 18, 2018 1:59:11 PM | 258

I speculated on the possibility karlof1 raises in a pre-Helsinki thread. During the Putin Interviews Putin makes a couple of remarks in English. So he can speak English. But more telling for me was Putin’s demeanor while waiting for Stone to get to the end of a complex question. Putin seemed to have got the gist of the question quite early and appeared impatient for him to finish so he could reply. That happened several times in each episode. But it’s not proof. So Let’s assume that Putin wasn’t comfortable with conducting the full duration of the Private Talks 1 on 1?
All that would be necessary to give Trump’s interpreter a Get Out of Jail Free card would be for Putin and Trump to have begun the talk with two interpreters present and then jointly agreed to send them out of the room, and call them back in, several times. There are multiple variations on that theme and they add up to “Not a snowflakes chance in Hell” of forcing Trump’s interpreter to blab under oath (or waterboarding).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2018 19:14 utc | 266

If you ever wondered, what you would have done and said, if you’d lived in hitlers Germany ! What you did and said today is what you would have done and said then !!! Think on my friends. Some here should hang there head in shame !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 19:22 utc | 267

TASS, however, reports Antonov’s words differently. “‘Russian President Vladimir Putin told [reporters] everything. There were no secret agreements,’ he affirmed. ‘They [agreements] were announced clearly….
“Let’s see to what extent the US will be ready to implement the verbal understandings reached in Helsinki.”
So, “understandings” (agreements) were achieved and “were announced clearly” by Putin. Looks like I’ll need to reread the transcript as no media has mentioned anything about these stated “understandings” that I know of until this item by TASS.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 19:23 utc | 268

267 He speaks pretty good German and yes he can speak English.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 18 2018 19:27 utc | 269

Good god American society has become a complete sideshow. All I can do is hum the old Clash song “I’m so bored of the U.S.A.”
To the largest extent possible Russia should focus on it’s Eurasian initiatives, cultivate respectful relations with sensible European countries, mitigate damage in their immediate neighborhood (central stans and Ukraine) and dialog with American groups with whom communication is absolutely necessary (eg mil to mil). Ignore the rest of the American political establishment and it’s quisling media who are insane and not agreement capable. In fact Russia should unequivocally state that not only did it not interfere in the US election – but it wants nothing to do with the country until it starts acting like a normal society.
De-friend and ignore as a national policy until the Americans regain their senses.

Posted by: Sad Canuck | Jul 18 2018 19:30 utc | 270

TruthDig via Antiwar.com: Indictment of 12 Russians: Under the Shiny Wrapping, a Political Act
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/indictment-of-12-russians-under-the-shiny-wrapping-a-political-act/
…While the indictment links the identity of a named Russian intelligence officer, Anatoliy Sergeyevich Kovalev, to specific actions detailed therein, the NSA document is much more circumspect. In a diagram supporting the text report, the NSA document specifically states that the organizational ties between the unnamed operators involved in the actions described and an organizational entity, Unit 74455, affiliated with Russian military intelligence is a product of the judgment of an analyst and not fact.
If we take this piece of information to its logical conclusion, then the Mueller indictment has taken detailed data related to hacking operations directed against various American political entities and shoehorned it into what amounts to little more than the organizational chart of a military intelligence unit assessed—but not known—to have overseen the operations described. This is a far cry from the kind of incontrovertible proof that Mueller’s team suggests exists to support its indictment of the 12 named Russian intelligence officers…

####
Plenty more at the link.
Not a surprise, but it’s nice to see some actual detail. Kabuki theater.

Posted by: et Al | Jul 18 2018 19:36 utc | 271

Interesting sideline story related to Mueller’s summit-spoiling indictment discusses an issue the wife and I chewed over last night–Mueller and BigLie Media not questioning/interviewing actors having information on the issue: extremely important when it comes to Craig Murray, who again publicly admitted yesterday he knows the leakers.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 19:39 utc | 272

somebody
What has a russian pro-gun video with bolton to do with alleged “hybrid warfare” against US? Same q goes for Butina?

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 18 2018 19:44 utc | 273

… the Mueller indictment has taken detailed data related to hacking operations directed against various American political entities and shoehorned it into what amounts to little more than the organizational chart of a military intelligence unit assessed—but not known—to have overseen the operations described.
Something like the “Weapons of Mass Destruction” business in the run-up to the USA invasion of Iraq.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 18 2018 19:57 utc | 274

Sad Canuck @ 271
I hear that loud and clear !!!
I’m strangely fasinated at this stage ! Here we are well on our way to 300 comments ! Yet the amount of times the human cost ! Has been mentioned you could count on one hand.why is that ? It’s like the invasion of the body snatchers film! Spooky ! But it’s all right I know why ! Reality is so bad now a lot of people on this thread have gone into denial.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 19:59 utc | 275

267 He speaks pretty good German and yes he can speak English.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 18, 2018 3:27:37 PM | 270

Thanks V much somebody:-))
I was so convinced I was right that I forgot the Google option.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 18 2018 20:03 utc | 276

I deny that I am in denial.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 18 2018 20:03 utc | 277

@mark2 I’m curios what are people in denial of here? You aren’t exactly a clarion call to examine the ‘human cost’ and that’s a strange question to be thinking, what you would do in Hitlers time and then admonishing posters here…..because of course you seem to know the answer…again what exactly are the posters here in denial of?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 18 2018 20:06 utc | 278

The main thing to remember is that there was no collusion.
That’s just big lie fake news MSM bullshit.
We know better cuz we’re so fucking smart.

Posted by: peter | Jul 18 2018 20:08 utc | 279

Spot on, b. You have one typo:

They do not perceivecare about all the damage they have done to 90% of the American electorate.

Posted by: anti_republocrat | Jul 18 2018 20:19 utc | 280

Mercouris resurfaces at The Duran to provide his analysis of the summit, wherein he discusses the one-to-one issue amongst many others. He also helps us with enumerating the “understandings” as delivered by Putin: “The emphasis … is on arms control….
“The result was an agreement between Putin and Trump to reopen channels of communication between their governments and to meet regularly with each other as they feel their way towards a rapprochement.
“To be clear, that rapprochement will not mean and is not intended to mean that the US and Russia will cease to be adversaries and will become friends.”
Mercouris deems the ice-breaker a success, to which I agree, and it was refreshing to read his analytical style once again.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 20:22 utc | 281

@ ben.. i agree, browders actions and his role in all of this is worth understanding better..

Posted by: james | Jul 18 2018 20:36 utc | 282

A radical premise for Trump to use in an attack on his summit detractors is suggested by Adam Garrie: Accuse them of undermining Israel’s security:
“In Trump’s case there is a strong element of truth to accusing his opponents of undermining Israel’s security. For the record, the previous sentence is not my view, but much more importantly it is the view of the leader of Israel. If Trump wants to turn the tables on his opponents, he can simply issue this accusation the next time he is on Twitter.”
Quite a scheme!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 20:40 utc | 283

What has a russian pro-gun video with bolton to do with alleged “hybrid warfare” against US? Same q goes for Butina?
Posted by: Zanon | Jul 18, 2018 3:44:50 PM | 274
Zanon seems to be one of those simple soul that believe in Aristotelian logic and linear narratives with no time loops. Precisely the type that cannot resist hybrid attacks which by the very definition are vague and almost impossible to resist since we have no idea what is an attack and what is not.
Consider a debacle suffered by Jeremy Corbyn and entire England when the former was induced to play with preschool children shortly after the heinous chemical attack in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Yea, we should never forget about childen, our hope for the future and consolation during darkest hours, but Corbyn haplessly chose to play using matryoshkas, the only toy in the market that is identifiably Russian. It warrants an investigation, perhaps, why this treasonous preschool had matryoshkas, and who made that awful suggestion to the Leader of Opposition. Perhaps his Russophilia took better of him. All of it would not matter, but BBC could not resist and broadcasted the clip with this scene, thus spreading the subliminal association of Russia and playful adorable little English children.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 18 2018 20:42 utc | 284

Frances 255 “Yep, because that plan worked so well last time in Iran”
What are you on about? US has never launched a military attack on Iran. If US attacks Iran, it wont be the same old conventional weapons attack and invasion as used in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18 2018 20:45 utc | 285

reply to: 218
No one seem to offer the obvious conspiracy theory that Trump, Putin and Xi all wish to have good relations between their countries with good old capitalist competition and trade as well…
Xi has invited the USA to participate in the “One Belt One Road” initiative perhaps with a tunnel under the Bering Strait, joining mainland America with Asia. So far this has been made politically impossible thanks to the enemies of Humanity that seem to flourish in the USA.
Posted by: Ike | Jul 18, 2018 4:44:56 AM | 218
I agree, they are birds of a feather, three nationalists who want their countries to prosper via trade. Yes, Trump still needs to rebalance trade with China and the EU to get a level (Trumps version of level)playing field but he is well on his way with that.
I didn’t know about the tunnel, how that must appeal to a guy from the construction trades!!!

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 20:47 utc | 286

reply to: 207
Really interesting links, thank you, always appreciate Russia’s media, no hysteria, facts, logic all missing from the US media although I do like Tucker Carlson:)

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 20:54 utc | 287

Great article.

Posted by: Andre | Jul 18 2018 20:59 utc | 288

Guerreo @ 278
Thanks for that one, your human ! Humour is a good test. !
Tannenhouser @ 279
O k thanks for asking I appreciate that ! Only I’m getting increasingly frustrated with the bland minute dissection of a meeting , and the circular pseudo intellectual armchair pontification,
About trump who cages small children. Encourages racist murder of inocent black people by very law inforcement officers in USA using dog whistle politics like in rowanda! His wife does a neat nazi salute ( i’v got the video) he cares absolutely nothing for the very poorest people. In short trump is the modern day hitler. I hope that answers your inquiry, my rant is not directed at you! And I take this oputunty to apologise to you for a few day’s ago when I was biting ! Warm regards I sense you may be human too !
As for trump he’s nazi scum I hope he burns in hell! You got deep state with hitler or deep state without, trust me that’s no choice, that’s no democracy you got no one else, take to the streets make history ! Good night all. ( tuff love)

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 18 2018 21:02 utc | 289

here is a free .pdf of alex krainer’s book “THE KILLING OF WILLIAM
BROWDER”
https://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/TheKillingOfWilliamBrowder_PrintLayout_6x9-1.pdf

Posted by: a bee | Jul 18 2018 21:09 utc | 290

Peter AU 1@286
“What are you on about? US has never launched a military attack on Iran. If US attacks Iran, it wont be the same old conventional weapons attack and invasion as used in Iraq/Afghanistan.”
See this link for a small part of the US attacks on Iran. I am sure you can find a lot more if you dig.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

Posted by: Krollchem | Jul 18 2018 21:12 utc | 291

reply to stonebird
Trump had no choice; Bannon/CIA called him “treasonous”.
I wasn’t aware of that and yes, that would chill the blood.Thank you

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 21:15 utc | 292

reply to:250
This is the first time I have seen an supplier of electronic software for voting machines, admit that there were “backdoor accesses” built in. Note that the real possibility for vote trickery comes AFTER the votes have been made but not the Totals “assembled”how to flip votes
Posted by: stonebird | Jul 18, 2018 1:19:28 PM | 250
Do you remember the fellow who designed those back doors who was scheduled to testify the next day about what he was directed to do by the DNC? His plane crashed, all were killed. Sure you can steal an election but what Hillary overlooked is you can’t steal ALL the elections espec in the hinderlands.

Posted by: frances | Jul 18 2018 21:22 utc | 293

@Breadonwaters | Jul 17, 2018 12:14:35 PM | 45
I remember back in the 1970’s, a small book titled ‘Will the Soviet Union survive to 1984?’ ..the premise being China is sitting next to the open steppes and needed the space.
If the Chinese intended to invade Siberia, why did they build the Great Wall?
…and, with a billion plus people, even nuclear weapons would not be a deterrent.
You’re insane. What could possibly be worth the death of a billion people?

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 18 2018 21:26 utc | 294

Unfortunately, now we don’t have politicians in this country anymore who are conducting the country in a direction. All we ended up in power with are a bunch greedy dollar chasing warmongers running amok in an effort to make a buck fast. None of them understands this delicate dance of a triangular nature. At this time, they are all going nuts over what trump did because they need an adversary so badly that they can’t see beyond it. This, they want because they are tied to the weapons makers (merchants of death) who need to keep on pushing their wares. The more wars there are, the more money they are making. That is all they care for, strive for, and kill for. They would not care what happens to the USA or the world otherwise.

Posted by: Ebrahim Wahab | Jul 18 2018 21:26 utc | 295

@Pft | Jul 17, 2018 7:57:35 PM | 157
See “The Killing of William Browder: Deconstructing Bill Browder’s Dangerous Deception” by Alex Krainer (2017).
This book was on Amazon, but has been delisted. You can still download it for free from
http://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/TheKillingOfWilliamBrowder_PrintLayout_6x9-1.pdf
I have barely started to read the book, so I’m not sure it’s entirely relevant.

Posted by: Cyril | Jul 18 2018 21:29 utc | 296

Krollchem 292
The one you linked was minor sniping, an attack against an oil rig. Like the shoot down of the airliner. US have never launched a military attack with destruction of Iran military and government as the goal.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 18 2018 21:33 utc | 297

frances @ 294
“Do you remember the fellow who designed those back doors who was scheduled to testify the next day about what he was directed to do by the DNC? His plane crashed, all were killed. Sure you can steal an election but what Hillary overlooked is you can’t steal ALL the elections espec in the hinderlands.”
I missed that, frances and it sounds suspicious. Do you recall names or dates?

Posted by: spudski | Jul 18 2018 21:39 utc | 298

Iraq was used as a direct proxy by the Outlaw US Empire in its war against the nascent Iranian Islamic Republic from 1980-1988.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 18 2018 21:41 utc | 299

Cyril@297
Thanks. I found it. About halfway done. Interesting if not relevant that Browders seed money for Hermitage came from an Israeli oligarch and that a week before his visa was revoked he was praising Putin in a seminar. Still aways to go. Before writing the book the author spent some time in Russia in 2015 learning Russian for some reason, so I cant rule out that he has been “influenced” . Says money is not a motive for writing the book. That said its good to consider both sides. Truth usually lies in the middle somewhere. He completely skipped over Pre-President Putin, was hoping to learn more there.

Posted by: Pft | Jul 18 2018 21:59 utc | 300