Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 04, 2018

British Government Peddles Warmed Over Novichok Muck

It seems that Theresa May felt a need to stoke some more Russia hate:

Just as the World Cup had forced the British media to grudgingly acknowledge the obvious truth that Russia is an extremely interesting country inhabited, like everywhere else, by mostly pleasant and attractive people, we have a screaming reprise of the “Salisbury incident” dominating the British media.

All British media outlets report of a middle-aged British couple, Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, who fell seriously ill in Amesbury, a town near Salisbury and near the British chemical weapon site Proton Down. The couple were transported to the Salisbury hospital. They were first suspected to have taken drugs but the police now speaks (vid) of a "potential exposure to an unknown substance" and that they "remain in a critical condition". [Update - July 5: British officials now say the two were poisoned with "Novichok".]

The parallels to the poisoning of the British-Russian spy Sergej Skripal and his daughter four month ago are obvious. The government alleged the Skripals were poisoned by a nerve agent of the Novichok series.  Like back in March the British government will soon name the evildoer of this new drama.

The most curious issue of the current case is that it happened Saturday morning. A lot of local emergency action took place since then. But news of the incident emerged only early today. None of the pieces I read explains the four days long lack of reporting. The British government obviously issued a D-notice and prohibited all news of the case until early today and now prohibits to explain the censoring.

Why?

A "friend of the couple", who had been with them on Friday night and Saturday, was interviewed by several outlets:

Sam Hobson, 29, a friend of the couple, said he believed they had been struck down by a nerve agent.
...
He described how on Saturday morning Sturgess fell ill and was taken to hospital and how later that morning Rowley also became sick. He said both were in hospital in isolation and he was receiving regular calls from the authorities to check he was well. “They thought it was drugs at first. They now think it’s a nerve agent,” he claimed.

Hobson, a mechanic, said he was in Salisbury with the couple on Friday evening in locations close to some of the places associated with the Skripal case.
...
Hobson visited Rowley’s home in Muggleston Road on Saturday morning. Sturgess, who lives in Salisbury, had spent the night there. “I saw lots of ambulances there and [Sturgess] got taken out on a stretcher. She needed to be helped with her breathing,” Hobson said. Rowley came out in tears. “They said she needed to have a brain scan.”

After she was taken to hospital Hobson and Rowley went to Boots in Amesbury. Later they went to a hog roast at the local baptist church.
...
Hobson said: “We went back to his place after the hog roast. We were going up to the hospital. Then he started sweating. His T-shirt was soaking wet. He got up and started rocking against the wall. His eyes were wide open and red, his pupils were like pinpricks. He began garbling incoherently and I could tell he was hallucinating. He was making weird noises and acting like a zombie. I phoned an ambulance. At first they thought it was drugs but … they know now it isn’t drugs.”

He said the couple had been together for a few months and neither worked. Hobson said they both also had one child by other partners.

Witnesses say that people in protective suits were seen on Saturday evening:

Nearby resident Chloe Edwards described seeing police cars, fire engines and people in “green suits” on Saturday night.

"We were just eating our dinner and all these emergency vehicles turned up,” the 17-year-old student said.

"They were putting on these green suits and we thought it was the gas as our electricity was turned off as well."

Ms Edwards said the vehicles arrived at about 7pm and she and her family were told to stay inside their home until about 10pm.

How come this did not emerge in the public?

A specialist "decontamination shower" was taken to the scene by Dorset and Wiltshire Fire and Rescue Service on Saturday, but a crew from Swindon later tweeted that “thankfully the incident wasn't serious and our decontamination shower wasn't required”. The tweet has since been deleted.

Other sources also reported the setting up of a mobile decontamination shower. Why would a suspected "contaminated drug" case require decontamination?

Some more details that might be of interest:

It has emerged Ms Sturgess lives in a homeless shelter close to the Zizzi's restaurant in Salisbury where Russian spy Sergei Skirpal and his daughter Yulia were targeted four months ago.
...
Initially police believed the pair, understood to be recreational drug users, had come into contact with a contaminated batch of Class A drugs.
...
Sam Hobson, 29, said: 'Charlie was dribbling and was rocking backwards and forwards. He was in another world, he was hallucinating.

'He wasn't high or anything. He was stone cold sober. It was like nothing I'd ever seen. I called the ambulance and they took him away.'

The police early on lied to the people living near the place where the incidents happened. It first pretended the issue was a gas leak. Two days ago it still told local media that this was a case of contaminated drugs. But its actions showed that something else was going on.

LeeAnn Brady said: 'I was told on the Saturday around half 6 in the evening that there was a gas leak and to close my windows. Nothing else was ever mentioned to us after that.

'But I haven't seen any British Gas vans anywhere.'
...
Lewis Foote said: 'My wife's friend lives near them and I know there was a huge police presence the other day with firefighters. They were wearing hazardous chemical suits. A lot of people think it might be related to the spy poisoning again.'

It is inexplicable that the public was not immediately informed of a new occurrence of a "nerve agent" in the Wiltshire area. If, as we are made to believe, the two persons picked up "Novichock" somewhere in a park, a warning to the public should have been the very next step. There was obviously a high risk that others might also make contact with the same substance. That no public warning was given lets me assume that the truth is somewhat different that the (censored) official story.

Since the Skripals mysteriously recovered from a "nerve agent ten times stronger than VX" and the police released a hostage video of Julia Skripal they vanished from the scene. Likewise nothing was since heard of the policeman who also fell ill at that time and recovered a few days later.

No explanations have been given for the myriad of misleading and contradicting claims the British government made about the Skripal case. Now we are getting a public rerun of the whole affair with a case which seriousness was obvious early on but which was censored for four days without giving any reason.

What happened during these four days? Who (de-)briefed the notorious Sam Hobson, the "friend of the couple", who now speaks of a "nerve agent"? Is he allowed to truthfully say what he saw and did or does he have a different role in this story?

I doubt that the currently presented version of Saturday's incident is more valid than the fairytales we were told about the Skripal case.

But what is it that really happened here?

---
Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the Skripal case:

March 8 - Poisioned British-Russian Double-Agent Has Links To Clinton Campaign
March 12 - Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment
March 14 - Are 'Novichok' Poisons Real? - May's Claims Fall Apart
March 16 - The British Government's 'Novichok' Drama Was Written By Whom?
March 18 - NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"
March 21 - Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)
March 29 - Last Act Of 'Novichok' Drama Revealed - "The Skripals' Resurrection"
March 31 - Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats To Suppress 'Novichok' Discussions
April 3 - Operation Hades Blamed Russia - A Model For The 'Novichok' Claims?
April 4 - It's The Cover-Up" - UK Foreign Office Deletes Tweet, Posts False Transcript, Issues New Lies
April 5 - Novi-Fog™ In Fleet Street - Truth Cut Off
April 6 - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning
April 7 - A Very British Farce
April 12 - New Developments In The Skripal Drama - Police Statement, OPCW Report Release
April 15 - Were the Skripals 'Buzzed', 'Novi-shocked' Or Neither? - May Has Some 'Splaining' To Do
April 28 - The Silence Of The Skripals - Government Blocks Press Reports - Media Change The Record
May 4 - Media Use Disinformation To Accuse Russia Of Spreading Such
May 24 - British Hostage Video Of Yulia Skripal Released

Posted by b on July 4, 2018 at 18:21 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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somebody @89

This is the original version of the story. It is worth translating:

http://www.mk.ru/social/2018/07/04/novyy-rakurs-dela-skripalya-yuliyu-v-britanii-navestila-podruga.html

Posted by: Paul | Jul 5 2018 10:40 utc | 101

Posted by: Paul | Jul 5, 2018 6:40:16 AM | 100

Yep. That is what the daily mail says.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 5 2018 11:07 utc | 102

Oh, there is a book coming

I met Sergei on a few occasions last summer and found him to be a private character who did not, even under the circumstances then prevailing, wish to draw attention to himself.

He agreed to see me as a writer of history books rather than as a news journalist, since I was researching one on the post-Cold War espionage battle between Russia and the West.

Information gained in these interviews was fed into my Newsnight coverage during the early days after the poisoning. I have not felt ready until now to acknowledge explicitly that we had met, but do now that the book is nearing completion.

As a man, Sergei is proud of his achievements, both before and after joining his country's intelligence service.


??
Both he and his daughter must now make difficult decisions about their future.

Yulia has spoken about her hopes of returning to Russia "one day". Her visit in March was only supposed to last a fortnight but now it is unclear what will become of her. Certainly, she is committed for the time being to helping in her father's recovery.

For Sergei the equation is different. He was not expecting to go back to Russia, and now he knows he will not be returning to his home in this country either. His house in Salisbury has been bought by the government both as a crime scene and a place still in need of extensive decontamination.

Will he make a new life under an assumed identity in the US or a Commonwealth country?

That promises to be an extremely difficult decision.

Certainly in US witness protection schemes, people are often asked to cut themselves adrift completely from their past. Having seen the peaceful life that he was enjoying in Salisbury last summer, I would imagine that will be very hard for Sergei.

Sergej Skripal returning to Russia, too?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 5 2018 11:20 utc | 103

...
Not surprisingly the Tass version of Yulia returning sounds different.
But they agree that Yulia phoned Victoria and that she wants to return.
So is British police now solving the incident?
Posted by: somebody | Jul 5, 2018 5:58:54 AM | 91

The Tass version sounds different because the phone call has been used as a convenient excuse to reiterate Russia's attitude to the Skripal Saga, set out the numerous items of UK bs, and remind Tass readers that the UK govt tells preposterous lies.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 5 2018 11:39 utc | 104

An interesting aspect comes from Jens Berger from the German Blog “Nachdenkseiten”:

https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?p=44774

He not only notes as well the mysterious 4 day gap in reporting, but also points out that the incident took place in the immediate neighbourhood of “MoD Boscombe down”, officially a military aircraft testing site. Simply take a look at the map provided to get an impression HOW close it is:

https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/upload/bilder/180704-skirpal-02.jpg

The site is run by Qinetiq , and was part of the former UK government agency, Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA), which was privatised in June 2001. So it is not only the vicinity to the Chemical weapon site Porton Down that renders the whole story so fishy.

Posted by: Cemi | Jul 5 2018 12:09 utc | 105

Well, any suspicion this might have some innocent explanation is over.

Sajid Javid hinted at more sanctions against Russia today as he confirmed two innocent Britons have fallen victim to Novichok.

The Home Secretary said the 'strong working assumption was that Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley had encountered the nerve agent at a location that had not previously been decontaminated.

Condemning Vladimir Putin's 'reckless and callous' actions, Mr Javid said it was unacceptable that UK citizens were 'deliberate or accidental targets'.

He said the investigation into the poisoning was continuing and the government would be 'consulting with our international partners' about any response to the situation.

They reenacted this to stop any detente with Russia.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 5 2018 12:27 utc | 106

The indy thread full of disbelief. You have to register to contribute but afaik this spam trap can still generate indy acceptable email addresses.

Posted by: Herman J Kweeblefezer | Jul 5 2018 12:52 utc | 107

I posted the following comment on The Saker on July 03 at 12:46 EST/EDT under an article titled
"The Salisbury Poisoning: A Plausible Explanation" about the Skripal poisoning, by someone calling themselves John Bull, England. Notice it was before the corporate media was let loose on the latest Amesbury poisoning, and shortly before the tie between England and Colombia kicked off.


"There is something missing in this fascinating re-cap of events and that is the World Cup. The Skripals were suffered from a poisoning incident on March 4th. Within 48 hours the UK’s impetuous and unpredictable Foreign Secretary, Old Etonian Boris Johnson, was blaming Russia, even going so far as to announce that England could pull out of Russia World Cup. All this despite the fact there was no evidence on who had poisoned the Skripals, and that international football fixtures do not fall within his remit. But they do fall within the Football Assocaition (FA), English football’s governing body. Coincidentally, in common with many leading political figures in the UK, the president of the FA just happens to be another Old Etonian, Prince William, heir to the British throne. Quick on Johnson’s heels, the very next day, March 7th, the Daily Telegraph reported that Prince William, would not be attending World Cup matches in Russia.

I cannot help thinking that the events are not linked in some way, even if Johnson and the royals just chose to exploit the situation after the event, thinking the British public and England fans would rise up behind them. Whatever the answer, as events have shown, the Prince’s announcement did nothing to dissuade tens of thousands of England fans from travelling to Russia to show support for their, and the prince’s, team.

However, as the prospect of England getting through to the quarter finals draws closer, we will know the result within in less than a couple hours, the prospect of the president of FA not attending a World Cup final featuring the team he represents, begins to hover – however precariously – on the horizon. Might one be so bold as to suggest that William and Boris will be praying for England lose against Colombia tonight?"

Uncanny? or what?


Posted by: Bryan Hemming | Jul 5 2018 13:17 utc | 108

somebody

Indeed, its clear how UK use this to stop detente, perhaps also trying to stop American/Russian meeting,
Even the skripals' havent been solved but these warmoners threat and accuse Russia!
A psyops. going on no doubt.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 5 2018 13:21 utc | 109

Could the poisoned couple actually be the ones involved in the poison attempt against Skripals?
That they somehow accidently got poisoned seems unrealistic.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 5 2018 13:22 utc | 110

The indy thread full of disbelief. You have to register to contribute but afaik this spam trap can still generate indy acceptable email addresses.

Posted by: Herman J Kweeblefezer | Jul 5 2018 13:27 utc | 111

D notice - no free speech

Posted by: paul | Jul 5 2018 13:28 utc | 112

They haven't found Putin's passport on the crime scene yet ? Strange.

Posted by: DidierF | Jul 5 2018 14:04 utc | 113

Expect rebels an white helmets in ya stadiums! To be quickly followed by a pitch invasion! We're dam good at invasions !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 5 2018 14:25 utc | 114

@Paul 81 - I made the same comment earlier on Craig Murrays blog.

The cctv was a red herring to distract people from the ‘security’ service links. These people could easily have been found if required. It was suspicious that they both look at the camera at the same time as they pass. There would be many more cameras that would have picked them up on their jaunty little walk which would have been out in daylight and give a clearer picture.

A ‘security’ services plant IMO

One other thing...I would like to know how many photo's to do with this case, from pictures of the skripals in Zizzi, to Yulias boyfriend and mother, to sergei's mother, are all credited to a company called EAST2WEST news. You can find them at companies house but they have no web presence at all.

Posted by: ross | Jul 5 2018 15:33 utc | 115

Wait, does this mean we can expect TWH to fake another CW attack in Deraa? Or have they already rid the area of the terrorists? I would deem that plausible... It could derail the summit, especially withe this GB regime Jihad Javid person calling out for new sanctions.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 5 2018 15:57 utc | 116

Boy do I get dizzy when the shit starts flying as it is from the UK. This is just Iraq Saddam all over again on Russia, done from Britain. Poison=Novichok=Russia in a matter of hours - not even the pretense of the rule of law or any Liberal Democratic ideals -- the Western Democracies are so deeply and thoroughly corrupted they have abandoned bothering with international or domestic law.

When it gets this bad I have to watch some CGTN for a dose of sanity and reason.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Jul 5 2018 16:05 utc | 117

Just read the Graun and the Indy, that was grueling, I will have to give up on that. It soils my intelligence, so that's it with GB media, it has become too stupid.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 5 2018 16:11 utc | 118

Trump is obsessed by making one to one trade or political deals with countries. He abhores multi-partners deals, JCOA, NAFTA, TAP etc..

Therefore he hopes to breakup, disrupt or at least weaken the EU so it can make one to trade deals with each of the EU countries.
He already tried to lure Macron out of the EU!
As for the UK, weakened by Brexit, it is ready to make one to one trade deal with the USA any day. It also wants to isolate the EU from deals with Russia so it can get more concessions on Brexit.

Therefore UK and the USA are working in tandem to demonize Russia to keep it away from the EU.

Any rapprochement between Trump and Putin is detrimental to the UK's strategy, so no surprise if we see more and more accusations, false flags and rumors coming from the UK on 'evil' Russia ahead of the Helsinki meeting

Posted by: Virgile | Jul 5 2018 16:17 utc | 119

Ross @ 114

I am not sure the CCTV is a red herring but I do think that the couple were set up by MI5/6.

The one thing we can be sure of is that the Skripals have disappeared (subject to the veracity of the reports above about Yulia returning to Moscow). It is therefore reasonable to assume that their disappearance was the desired intention all along.

If Sergei was the author of the Steele dossier there would be a lot of people who would want him silenced - including May who knew the dossier was fake when she signed the FISA warrants. So, what if Sergei, fearing for his life, did a deal to disappear. What if, Yulia knew about her father's role and the 'disappearance' had to wait until Yulia was in the UK. The only thing needed was a way for them to disappear that would stop anyone looking for them.

What if the original plan was for 'a couple' to be seen collapsed on a park bench and a few days later, it was to be announced that they had died. It would be a local news story and anyone looking for Sergei Skripal would end their search with a local newspaper obituary.

What if the couple in the video were recruited as patsies. "Take this bag. We will be watching you. Go to the park bench. You will be approached by a man and a woman wearing a white coat. When they come, you get up and walk away. Leave the bag on the ground."

It all went to plan, the couple smiled at the camera, went to the bench ... but THEY were the ones poisoned. (Freya Church was sure the people on the bench were the ones in the video).

The air ambulance was called, Sergei and Yulia got in and were flown to who knows where.(Wiltshire air ambulance has confirmed neither Skripal was taken to Salisbury District Hospital. Also, the transponder on the helicopter did not transmit for the duration of the incident - but we know it was in Sainsbury's carpark as it was pictured there).

Sergei had kept an insurance dossier of old drafts etc. of the report. When he was sure MI5/6 had not double-crossed him, he told DS Bailey where the dossier was hidden. DS Bailey went to the house recovered the dossier and destroyed it.

The Skripals had disappeared - and events leading up to the disappearance left a local newspaper story and a dead end trail. It all went wrong on Monday morning when DS Bailey drove himself to hospital. That was picked up by the local paper and went national within hours. A media circus ensued and a ridiculous official cover up began.

Initially nobody suspected a crime, it was just a local paper story - that all changed on Monday morning.

Posted by: Paul | Jul 5 2018 16:24 utc | 120

ross 114

I looked into them as they were putting up most of the social media pics of the Skripals.
They look to be based in Ukraine, most likely Ukraine nationals, connected to or part of I think, SCL, the parent company of Cambridge Analytica.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5 2018 16:24 utc | 121

Geeez, is it not obvious that this is about the Trump/Putin Summit? Much harder to even get started on anything with this fresh assault in motion. Trump will meet Putin and then be greeted by a solid wall of forceful anti-Russia views in NATO.

It seems like the West really would just melt into a quivering mass if suddenly Russia was not an enemy. What would they do with themselves?...get along...more than they could bare I'm afraid.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Jul 5 2018 16:25 utc | 122

A missing bit is that Skirpal might have been connected with the Steele dossier. (Via his handlers connection to the UK intelligence sources, that then circulated the dossier to US sources).
This came from a blog some time ago.
So Skirpal has to be taken out of sight by any means.

However, the couple "now" involved will probably be used by British "intelligence" for more disinformation as to the source of the "Novachuk" (if it was that.) Either that or they will really die and a potential source of real information silenced.

The main reason for this timing is that - The World Cup is showing the better side of Russia and this goes directly against the "Putin done it" story that has been fed to the masses to "justify" sanctions and general anti-Russian manipulation.

Otherwise sanctions might have been reduced, or shown up to be the commercial warfare that they really are.
Otherwise - you could consider this an amateur spywar scenario.

Posted by: stonebird | Jul 5 2018 16:31 utc | 123

@105 somebody... is Sajid Javid the new boris johnson guy for this story??

@107 brian hemming... what is wrong with uk leadership and it's people? are they all fucked in the head??

@111 paul... yes - d notices - another reflection of just how low the uk has sunk..

@112 didier f... lol... good one!!

@117 Den Lille Abe.. i can't do it.. i don't have the stomach for it..

craig murrays latest for today.. The Amesbury Mystery

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 16:33 utc | 124

@122 stonebird... that has been discussed numerous times here at moa over the past 4 months..

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 16:35 utc | 125

Virgile 118

I am thinking along the same lines. Trump and a small faction of the US want to change course. Going for full spectrum dominance will only lead to US collapse or nuclear destruction of the US. Their target/goal is to bring down or prevent the further rise of the Chinese economy and energy dominance. To tackle China they need to try and split Russia from China or prevent the further strengthening of the Russia/China partnership.

The UK and a large faction of the US elite on the other hand, are either still living the cold war, still thinking they can gain full spectrum dominance, or simply have a blind hatred of Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5 2018 16:42 utc | 126

BREAKING: Putin passport found in Zizzi's freezer.

Posted by: Alexander Nevsky | Jul 5 2018 16:43 utc | 127

maybe with this new set up at the opcw they can just relay what the gchq tells them to frame russia accordingly... no need for facts..

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 16:56 utc | 128

charlie rowley, a heroin addict who owns a new house, being painted as a homeless addict? something is not adding up in the stories the uk press are regularly dishing out...

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 16:58 utc | 129

I am reminded of Carl Rove:

*‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously,

as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out.

We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.*

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 5 2018 17:17 utc | 130

@128 You never know these days....maybe Charlie was running a discarded syringe recycling depot.

Posted by: dh | Jul 5 2018 17:20 utc | 131

Craig Murray points out that they are not the poor unconnected down and outs the media tries to make them.

Charlie is an ex-special forces soldier who is driven by recurring flashbacks of the bomb explosions he planted in fruitstands
and taxi cabs in Basra. In his nightmares, Charlie strokes his razor-naked skin where, then, a bushy takfiri beard was hosted.
Nowadays he hangs around the recruiting offices regaling young officers with tales of his military action in wild old afganistan.
They goof on him, sending him on phoney missions, like pretending to be a blind musician in the subway, supposedly as a look-out.

Dawn was raised as a proper girl. At school she drank and eventually became addicted to heroin. She religiously visits her old mother
every weekend. The dowager isn't senile, yet getting there, so Dawn is able, little by little, to remove the dinner party silverware.
She falls for Charlie who, when they take China White together, appears as a modern-day Don Quijote, a passionate yet impotent lover expatiating upon deep state secret societies in the scope of all history and with parenthesis after parenthesis of extended discursion.

Sam Hobson is an intelligence agency hack. Charlie and April are his assets. They are not productive sources but he regularly
embellishes his surveillance and surruptitious interview reports. He has to defend his thesis against pipe-smoking cost-cutter agency
brass, so he has come to believe his own story that: Charlie was recruited by the Russian Chief of Station in Kabul and provides spy
services to Putin's Kremlin and that Dawn is NO ordinary middle-class junkie; that she is the very Anna Chapman of the British Isles!

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 5 2018 18:31 utc | 132

CarlD 129

To stay ahead of Rove's empire these days, you have to think bigly.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5 2018 18:34 utc | 133

.. a simple analysis of the "reports":

1 WILTSHIRE POLICE two people „found in a property“ SAT evening… they are „receiving treatment for suspected exposure to an unknown substance“ (!)
(BS: You cannot really „treat“ a patient if the substance (cause of illness) is „unknown“)

https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/article/2915/Major-incident-declared-following-ongoing-incident-in-Amesbury (no date!)

2 BBC

• „the couple fell ill on Saturday“ (woman in the morning, man in the afternoon)
• They were shopping in Salisbury on Friday
• Local Police say no-one else • Local Police suspect „heroin or crack-cocaine“ use

Not before Wednesday did the story change to „an unknown substance“ (when the MET „counter-terrorism“ dept took over) then to „novichok“ based on a Porton Down analysis (whose govt „experts“ practice militarized science in a sinister collusion with the „intelligence services“) which cannot possibly be accepted as „independent“ science but the media pretend that it is …

Conclusion 1: they because then the symptoms would have appeared much sooner; the BBC mentions that Novichok „takes effect within minutes“ and „blocks messages from the nerves to the muscles“. (Right)

The most indispensible muscles we have are the heart and the muscles needed for breathing so malicious exposure to a military „nerve agent“ would quickly result in respiratory failure (read: death) not „foaming at the mouth, sweating … and making weird noises“ hours later …

The BBC’s „security correspondent“ Gordon Corera makes the absurd claim that „the most likely hypothesis was that the Novichok was left over from the attack on the Skripals“ which is of course complete BS since after four months any organophosphate would have decomposed.

And yet … the BBC first states that Novichok „is designed to be persistent“ then contradict their own (false) claim by citing Dr. Mirzayanov who confirms that the substance is „unstable“ and therefore could not possibly be harmful after such a long time.

Conclusion 2: Skripal – Déjà-vu: there was no „Novichok“ contamination at all since no-one else was affected (including hospital staff)

Posted by: Cassandra | Jul 5 2018 19:19 utc | 134

(Part 2 - analyzing the "reports")

3 METROPOLITAN POLICE („Scotland Yard“ or „MET“

• A woman „collapsed“ (SAT morning, 10.15) and was taken to hospital (South West Ambulance Service)
• A man also „fell ill“ (SAT afternoon, 15.30), local police was informed (by whom?)
• Initial assessment: drug abuse („contaminated batch“… not before MONDAY did the „symptoms“ raise concerns so samples were sent to Porton Down

Question: How is it possible – given their recent experience with the Skripals - that the hospital staff in Salisbury only recognized the symptoms of a „nerve agent“ two days after the patients arrived?

Probable Answer: Because the two people were not contaminated with NC when they arrived but had received another psychoactive substance (like the Skripals before them …). This also explains why no hospital staff was affected and why the local police said there was „no danger“ to the public. (Chain of custody of the blood samples??? )

4 LOCAL PRESS

• First reports: three people (involved in a „drug incident“ • „police say there is "no danger" to anyone else in the area“
• A spokesman for South Western Ambulance Service later said that only one patient had been taken to Salisbury District Hospital
• a woman „collapsed“ (SAT morning, 10.15), a man „fell ill“ (SAT afternoon 3.30)
• „incident believed to be drug related“ occurred SAT evening, at 6.20 AMBULANCE was called,
• Shortly before 7.p.m. FIRE BRIGADE was called (8 vehicles!?) ; witnesses: „a number of residents were evacuated from their homes“

Question: Why would the fire-fighters be needed in a „drug-related“ incident?

Probable Answer: The locals were first told a „gas-leak“ had happened, so the „evacuation“ of residents appeared plausible and necessary but the real purpose was to get rid of witnesses to yet another „false flag“ PSYOP … and what is this?

….destroying evidence of a crime or is this just a coincidence?

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16335333.ambulance-engulfed-in-flames-in-mere/?ref=mr&lp=6


„… believed to be unconscious at Salisbury District Hospital, where they remain in a critical condition“

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16335696.amesbury-nerve-agent-john-baker-house-residents-set-for-evacuation/?ref=mr&lp=3

„believed to be unconscious?“ (again, the hospital staff is being gagged, no interviews)…“in a critical condition“ (they have the audacity to feed us the same crap as before …)

THE CHOSEN VICTIMS

(from a comment):

„This couple seems to have prison and hard drugs experience, and is therefore likely, to have known or used those substances.Additionally, being homeless, drug users/addicts, they are likely to have trouble with police, and are an easy target for manipulation by intelligence operatives.

you bet … I am afraid they will let the woman die this time ..for greater „shock“-effect and to derail the Trump-Putin meeting ...

Posted by: Cassandra | Jul 5 2018 19:28 utc | 135

@130 dh - lol...

@131 guerrero... that is a much longer run thru of it and funny too! thanks...

@133 cassandra... yes - the 4 day gap which b highlights in his article here is really where the rubber hits the road.. just who cooked up this story other then m16 or some staff extension of the neo con hierarchy of the uk? was this chatham houses idea of a good time? it is just so much bullshit on any casual glance, the uk better come up with some facts to dispell in the increasing perception of ordinary people that they are pushing on a string with nothing to back either the skripal or this case up with anything of substance... the uk at present appears to be run by a class of morons not seen in a long time...

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 19:30 utc | 136

@ Guererro 131

Whatever it is, you are taking, let me know. I want to try it too.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 5 2018 19:35 utc | 137

Guerrero | Jul 5, 2018 2:31:14 PM | 131

Priceless-great stuff.

It really is amazing that, on any interpretation of the facts, Russia can be blamed. The British government is collapsing, its members have lost any sense of proportion and are longing for a catastrophe to put them out of their misery.
One problem with this (Thatcherite) regime collapse, reminiscent of an eastern european government in 1989, is that there might be an election before the Labour Party is democratised-that would mean that about 100 Blairites would be reelected and be in a position to sabotage the Labour government.
It is not impossible that, to deal with the 'crisis' a National Government of Tories, Liberals and Blairites would be formed, to fend off an election and reverse the decision to leave the EU.
In any case what we are witnessing is a regime at the end of its tether, reduced to vulgar PR tricks and sustained only by its control of the media-which is itself in a critical condition and maintained only by the support it receives from the secret police and other government organs.
Neo-liberalism must have looked like a great idea half a century ago. Not least because its proponents had no conception of how quickly the 'opposing' forces of the Unions and the working class movement-dominated by careerists, bureaucratic losers and temperamental Tories, as well as totally corrupt opportunists- would fold.
It was this absence of real opposition (the Labour Party was led by Neil Kinnock who was effectively an agent of the United states Embassy) which led to the current situation: the neo-liberals, unrestrained, went wild. As did their soulmates the neo-cons. And in the end they overextended themselves.
This happened in the US-look what happened to the Clintonites-as well as the UK. And now there is a vacuum in politics. All it needs is for new forces, a new generation with new thinking to take advantage of the collapse of an old generation bankrupt of ideas-never having developed any of its own, and having fallen back on C19th imperialism and liberalism warmed up for the new era.
I better post now. I've lost this three times in a massive thunderstorm which keeps knocking out the power and internet.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 5 2018 19:41 utc | 138

James @124
Sure. But I haven't been here. (4 months of Holidays and bad health).
So everyone is aware that the Skripal case is linked to the Steele dossier and the only thing left is to determine why the new incident with two new people? (The timing is clearly to put a foot in any improvement in Russian-west relationships, football and Trump-Putin meeting)

If the UK intelligence have brought this up now (and were presumably also the cause of this new false flag) then there are more revelations yet to come.

Posted by: stonebird | Jul 5 2018 19:41 utc | 139

Paul @120
thanks for your theory...I will look into some aspects of that more tomorrow.

Peter @121
thanks for the info. There is a company of that name registered in the UK with russian employees. What led you to Ukraine and SCL?

Posted by: ross | Jul 5 2018 19:57 utc | 140

ross, a week or two of research into east2west and SCL.
There are several entities with east2west in their name but have nothing to do, as far as I can see, with the Ukraine crowd or SCL. Their name only comes up in image searches. If you search for all their images, there is a lot of tabloid Ukraine stuff - sex, drugs, murder ect and they always supply pictures of the required Russian for anti Russia propaganda, mainly in the UK. SCL's are of expertise is access and manipulating social media. This is where east2wests pics come from for the UK anti Russia pieces.
SCL had a NATO? contract for, I think media or communications training in Ukraine.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5 2018 21:11 utc | 141

Oh dear. I hope all this wasn't my fault.

Posted by: Willie Wobblestick | Jul 5 2018 21:15 utc | 142

@139 stonebird.. i am not sure what the uk think they are going to accomplish here.. really.. how much bullshit propaganda against russia is going to make any difference at this point? unless they substantiate something with facts - it is all a long term waste as i see it..

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 22:14 utc | 143

i agree with peter - SCL probably has a role in this.. they are the same group responsible for cambridge analytica.. bullshit artists, thru and thru... maybe SCL are connected to the longer running chatham house? the uk sure spends a lot of money on propaganda..

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 22:16 utc | 144

scl info from march.. https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/03/22/scl-and-the-phantom-contract/

Posted by: james | Jul 5 2018 22:18 utc | 145

Whatever it is, you are taking, let me know. I want to try it too.

Only ordinary organic Copalillo mezcal from the first-pressing of the tips of agave cactus leaves.
In my signature file is a link to two short ethnographic videos I made in that town some years ago.
Organic mezcal is clear with tiny bubbles. This material is what the Emperor Cuahtemoc himself took.
A demonstration of its effects is given by the gentleman at the end of the Copalillo Fiesta video.
Even though this Post is about mind-altering drugs and stuff, its off-topic; let us not digress.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 5 2018 22:58 utc | 146

OOOps! sorry; I failed to put the link to Copalillo ethnographic documentary vids in my signature file

Here it is again: this time correctly! regarding organic mezcal and the backcountry Mexican culture.

http://mexico-nostalgia.net/copalillo/

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 5 2018 23:18 utc | 147

Some homeless junkies got hold on some flakka and it escalated...

Posted by: Nulgod | Jul 5 2018 23:29 utc | 148

Ross @ 140

I look forward to it! In that case let me give you a bit more.

Let's assume that Skripal did write the dossier. Were his monthly visits to the Russian Embassy to try and find a way of returning to Russia and thereby put himself beyond reach? Did that effort fail and the idea for him to disappear begin?

The Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee still want to interview Steele: https://investigaterussia.org/media/2018-07-02/senate-intel-courts-steele. If Skripal is officially 'dead' Steele could say his source was a former double agent who was part of the 2010 spy-swap that took Anna Chapman to Moscow - but sadly, he is now dead. End of story. With Skripal alive, it is not so easy... if Steele reveals his source, the committees will probably want to speak to Skripal - which lots of people don't want.

For this reason also, now that the world knows Skripal is not dead, it is very unlikely that the Brits would let Skripal go and and hide in the US - that is exactly where they don't want him to be.

You will recall that in early April, we were told the Skripals would never recover - that was plan B. Yulia blew that out of the water by making her phone call in which she said everyone would recover (incidentally the Russians will know all about that call: where it was made from, the number, etc. etc.) - that call was not supposed to happen. It leaves the Brits with no reasonable option - how are they going to 'lose' Sergei now?

On 5 April, Martin Brunt (live on Sky News) said that none of his sources had seen the couple in the hospital. Not a single nurse willing to say anything; not a single photo of the Skripals in hospital, or even a photo of the hospital computer system showing their names – that would have been worth a lot of money! They were NEVER there!

If this is what happened, the Brits have a real problem which might ultimately have implications for UK/US relations. And I think they don't have a clue what to do now - so they will 'stonewall' it for the time being. In the meantime, Yulia has got fed up and wants to go back to Moscow...

Posted by: Paul | Jul 6 2018 0:42 utc | 149

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5, 2018 2:34:38 PM | 133
"To stay ahead of Rove's empire these days, you have to think bigly."

Yep. So, what will be the Empire's next deleterious actions, and how do we prevent them?

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 6 2018 0:55 utc | 150

bevin @158. "..there might be an election before the Labour Party is democratised..."

I note that today, the Labour Party is being castigated for no adopting, word-for-word the Zionist language on "anti-semitism." As this has been a major bucket of steaming bullcrap hurled at Corbyn and other lefty members of Labour for some time, this news might fit your speculation.


Labour's code, which was approved by a sub-committee of its National Executive Committee, came about after the 2016 Chakrabarti inquiry into anti-Semitism. It does endorse the IHRA's working definition of anti-Semitism and includes behaviours it lists as likely to be regarded as anti-Semitic - but leaves out four examples:

* Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to Israel than their home country
* Claiming that Israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour
* Requiring higher standards of behaviour from Israel than other nations
* Comparing contemporary Israeli policies to those of the Nazis

In their joint statement, Jonathan Goldstein of the Jewish Leadership Council and Marie van der Zyl of the Board of Deputies said it was "for Jews to determine themselves what anti-Semitism is".

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 6 2018 1:06 utc | 151

If anyone is still interested in the passing outrages of wiltshire, even that tackiest of neoliberal liars, the guardian is starting to question the validity of "Its the Russkies wot done it ma'am" claims of the increasingly desperate chinless assholes aka Maybot and the brexiters. Simon Jenkins the most craven and willing to vomit any untruth if the price is right of all the guardian neofibbers is walking back, or trying to, the outrageous deceits this worthless example of media mendacity put forward in the height of the Skripal distemper. Needless to say even more untruths ensue as the cowardly liars wriggle to try and save their collective ass:

"I seem to be the only person alive with no clue as to who has poisoned four people in Wiltshire. I am told that only Russians have access to the poison, known as novichok – though the British research station of Porton Down, located ominously nearby, clearly knows a lot about it. Otherwise, I repeat, I have no clue. I suppose I can see why the Kremlin might want to kill an ex-spy such as Sergei Skripal and his daughter, so as to deter others from defecting. But why wait so long after he has fled, and why during the build-up to so highly politicized an event as a World Cup in Russia?

So now Jenkins claims to be the only human to disbelieve the nonsense? Maybe the staff don't ever read the cif threads where other more aware, less stupidly credulous or unwilling to accept nonsense readers have spent the last 3 months trying every angle they can to comment that the Maybot has been talking garbage?

Whatever the real issue is, why have the fibbers altered their angle? I don't reckon the latest outrage is part of any conspiracy at all.
It has been obvious from day 1 that no halfway competent government would pull this sort of stunt because there is so much room for error, space for 'collateral damage'.
The guardian journos who have been speaking to the police, emergency workers and spooks on the ground probably knew from early on how ridiculous the blame Russia game was but they went along with it for a host of reasons, one of the major ones being that UK media is united in their insistence to make sure Corbyn never becomes PM. The reasons for this along with copious examples of what they have been up to would take far too long to detail, but anyone who has a couple of hours and the skills to push past the initial pages of a search engine and sort the wheat from the chaff, can find a plethora of examples.

Now that the Skirpals are no longer a one off and blaming Russia for the poisonings is scarcely credible, particularly since law enforcement is going to have to catch the actual perp since the attacks will probably continue, the guardian is racing to try and regain some credibility.

This collection of desperate pr1cks had no problem with shedding more than 50% of guardian readers as long as there was still a couple of hundred thousand useful idiots they could convince of the greatness and peaceful nature of rampant zionism but the scandal that is these Porton Downs leaks will cost them even the useful idiots if the truth surfaces too soon after their deceits.
So now the ass-covering.

Posted by: Herman J Kweeblefezer | Jul 6 2018 3:12 utc | 152

Let's assume British police are telling the truth.

Novichok was found on the hands of Amesbury couple.

British secret service seems to work with fake rocks in parks, that is how Sergei Skripal was caught in Russia.

Britain initially laughed off accusations from Moscow that spies had been caught "red-handed" using the fake rock to contact agents and download sensitive information.

Now six years on, Tony Blair's former Chief of Staff has admitted that the "embarrassing" episode was entirely true and not merely far-fetched Russian propaganda.

Jonathan Powell accepted that Britain did indeed plant a "spy rock" despite attempts by the then-prime minister to dismiss the story and denials of improper conduct by the Foreign Office.

In an interview broadcast on Putin, Russia and the West, a BBC Two series which starts tonight, he said: "There’s not much you can say. The spy rock was embarrassing.

Did Skripal continue this technique in Britain? With the same guys? Was the Novichok hidden in there? And was the Novichok on the door knob because that was the first he touched when he returned to the house? Passing the stuff on this way to Julia and the detective?

Did the Amesbury couple mistake the rock for a heroin stash or was it also used as a heroin stash by drug dealers?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 6 2018 3:30 utc | 153

Seems like you can't have a world cup football without some form of British hooliganism after all, though this time on a diplomatic level.

Posted by: 0use4msm | Jul 6 2018 3:38 utc | 154

Herman J Kweeblefezer | Jul 6, 2018 12:28:59 AM | 155

Did you post any links? If so, there some websites that are blocked. Unfortunately, I don't remember which ones.

Posted by: Ian | Jul 6 2018 5:20 utc | 155

Paul @149

This is the most likely scenario I have read. I am sure all this is linked to the dossier.

It may also explain the disappearance of Stepan Vikeev and his mother who may also have been involved in penning the trump dossier. Anyone with an input to the dossier must disappear before they can be questioned. Similarly Mifsud.

Interesting thanks.

Posted by: ross | Jul 6 2018 5:53 utc | 156

"The indy thread full of disbelief."

Not true. 100% of the skeptical or disbelieving posts now say "removed by moderation" and the only posts left are those claiming Russia did it.

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Jul 6 2018 9:16 utc | 157

Ross @157

Exactly! It is a framework on which most of the oddities can be made to fit very easily. My initial assumption was simply that they were SUPPOSED to disappear - because it is just about the only thing we can say for sure DID happen. It even explains why Yulia would be told to say she did not 'wish to avail' herself of any help from Russia - the Brits were still trying to make them vanish.

Regarding Vileev - I agree, it is my guess that Yulia had been involved in sending information to her father and Vikeev (or his network) could have been one of the Russian based sources. Having already lost his wife and daughter, Sergei feared for Yulia, which was why the disappearance waited for her to arrive in the UK.

Even the 'D' notices - that is nothing to do with Pablo Miller, he was outed by the Russians years ago. It is all about stopping anything being (inadvertently) published which links the Brits to the dossier.

Posted by: Paul | Jul 6 2018 9:31 utc | 158

Ross @ 157

If Skripal was going to disappear, he had to be sure he was seen beforehand, which may explain why he was so 'agitated' in Zizzi. He wanted people to remember he was there.

This video was said to be at 4:08pm and is from Jenny's Restaurant (20m up from the gym). The woman with the dog is not with them but does this show Sergei and Yulia making their way to the helicopter:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poisoned-russian-spy-daughter-seen-12156418

The man appears slightly overweight and has exactlty the same side to side gait as Skripal (in the CCTV of him buying scratch cards). They had to be at the scene of the poisoning as that was where the helicopter was coming to.

Posted by: Paul | Jul 6 2018 10:33 utc | 159

James @ 124: Sajid Javid, referred to as a Sontaran over at Off-Guardian, is the new British Home Secretary, replacing Amber Rudd aka Elmer Fudd. Shows you the wealth - or dearth rather- of talent in Treason N Mayhem's government.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 6 2018 10:34 utc | 160

I have just seen a new book on Amazon by the inventors of Novichok, it was titled “An All Inclusive Remedy on Unemployment and Homelessness”.
I have reasons to believe that The Walking Dead aka the British Cabinet has bought the book and read it eagerly. They did read another title by another author (forgot name, Heinrich something) but title ” The Final Solution on Unemployment and Homelessness” , maybe got the title wrong too.. Look there is a squirrel!! its in a trance! Its foaming!!
Anyway Vlad phoned this morning (Yes, we First Class Bots have his direct number, and direct and often access) and asked how the Trolling was coming along, I dutifully answered (standing attention, mind you!) that I was proceeding poorly, that the British were more daft than my last visit, ect, ect, of course excuses! But Vlad was grattious and gave me a pay rise of 17 kopeks an Hour!!, and I was happy! He furthermore revealed, I have his trust, all True Bots have) that the Deplorable Bitish Government had placed and order for 30000 tonnes of Novichok Mrk. 3, but they at present did not have any. I suggested they just supply some third rate narcotic, lace with a nasty pesticide, get the money and play stupid. He did not like the playing stupid part. And thought it was a bit “too much”. Then I asked him if he ever read the Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Guardian, ect, ect ? And the he was more keen, he did understand what it meant to be A Front Line Putinbot (Tm). But I got a concession out out of him, he knows I am a Bleedin’ Hearth Socialist (he fancies it secretly) that I tell in advance what the plans are and who is behind. He of course said “Who will believe you?”
But now its done! I have told you Your own government wages a war on its populace, on the most vulnerable part of the populace, the poor, the destitute, the homeless, the unemployed! Your fate will be that of the roving bands of idiots in the US, complete without any moral or societal compass, bereft of all human values, left in adaze of Internet Porn, Cheap Opioids, Unemployment, and homelessness.
Heed my words, this will happen. Within a decade.

Den Lille Abe is well known Putinbot, often trying to propagandize his views on Socialism, Cooperation and Understanding across borders. He lives in Sweden, is rather well off, donates to Syria and Yemen, and tries to stick to the socialist agenda, (Socialist is NOT Liberal, on the contrary we regard Liberals as the Greatest Threat, rather than conservatives (UK excluded, they are criminals, hang them on Tower Bridge, PM in the middle)Socialism is not Bolshevism either, socialism is very much ahhh F.O look up Oluf Palme and Albin 1928 "Folkhemstalet (if no English I will try :)) Give Pm.

b, it is a cross posting from Craig M. Sorry I ran out, but hought not to bad so I posted here also, hope you dont mind.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 6 2018 11:56 utc | 161

Excuse me if someone has already added 2+2 and come up with 5, as I'm about to do. A number of posts have suggested that these two winos may have had a walk-on part in the original Skripal drama, maybe they were promised a reward. Maybe they wanted more, or were just getting gobby, and the decision was made to shut them up. A lot of maybes, I know.

Posted by: Montreal | Jul 6 2018 12:16 utc | 162

I just checked the WC, so it is tomorrow that GB will leave the World Cup, ohh wel you did leave a almost rather nice impression. We don not condone fans doing Nazi salutes anywhre really, do it home! But that would be disgraceful to the Nazi's , who at least in the start did the worker in mind.
Dear Perfidious Albion, you have been severely wing-shot, you cant hide it anymore, the unruly Scots are even more unruly, the Irish don't give F., your women (Mrs May) cant have children (Too Ugly, horse-like, even the Vikings said so), the brain dead roaming the streets for the next fix, Hallelujah! Well they stumble on the homeless, and bump into the unemployed or the zero hour slaves. Praise the Lord, we are Poor We Poor , but we are are proud, but Lord , we are so foking poor and desperate, Help us, your chosen People, give us from the continental Savages (Barnier) Who have so much hoarded,Relieve us from our misery and show a way out!!!
And The Lord Answered: You must imbibe on Novichock, Novichock, Gods own Brand, Novichock for People, Pets and Plants!!!! and the add whent on sky 4 and the beeeb and suddenly we had a Jamestown V. 2.0 floating in the channel!!!
And the Continental savages sang "Auld lang syne" because they missed the Scothch Single Malt 14 Year Oban Highland Malt.
But the savages were strong the made the Mackmyra, and partied in the streets and had consensual sex on all the beaches, the British voyeurs were beaten!!
And many babies were born, all different shades and colors, they learn to know strength lies not in the color of the skin, but in your beliefs.
Part 2 comes when I am reasonably sober. Its being part of my 20000000 word work Encyclopedia of Neuropa.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 6 2018 13:24 utc | 163

It seems to me that the bottom line of this complete farce is drug taking. Its quite likely that someone in the Salisbury area has a home made lab somewhere and is making this stuff for sale to junkies. The Skripals could have easily used some of this stuff as a recreational drug especially as its obviously not a weapons grade chemical, because it doesn't appear to kill anyone. The real mystery is as ever , the policeman in this affair who I think was used as a prop is this theater of the absurd.

Posted by: john wilson | Jul 6 2018 13:36 utc | 164

Does anyone know if these two new 'victims' are actually real people?

One 'friend' has described what happened to them.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

I'd guess that this move is NOT to prevent a successful Putin-Trump Summit but to punish Russia if Putin is not willing to join in the struggle against China.

Thus, if there is no 'breakthru' at the Summit, these two will be said to die from their Novichok exposure.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 6 2018 13:37 utc | 165

Peter 126

"The UK and a large faction of the US elite on the other hand, are either still living the cold war, still thinking they can gain full spectrum dominance, or simply have a blind hatred of Russia."

Yes, there is some reminiscent of the John Le Carre's cold war, but I think that the UK is under the devastating shock of Brexit. It does not know how to deal with it and where the country is going. Their worst fear is that Russia takes a major role in the EU, thus discarding the UK. The British wants to keep been indispensable.
Thus the demonization and disparaging of Russia by any means.
They are helped by the US democrats. But Trump is not on board, he wants the USA and Russia to ultimately dominate the world against the EU and China. The UK is caught in the middle and desperate.

Posted by: virgile | Jul 6 2018 13:51 utc | 166

I’m going to play semi devil’s advocate here.

The 4-day delay, as for the Skripals (wasn’t that a bit longer? - no matter): In the Amesbury case the first script was overdose/other via heroin/crack cocaine, and a warning went out to drug users the next day about possible ‘bad’ drugs. Good reasons, for the take, as was the case for Fentanyl re. the Skripals. The symptoms, etc., also the fact that Charles Rowley (the same person, imho, link) was a known heroin user/dealer. Dawn Sturgess lived in a shelter for the homeless struggling with addictions (link.)

Then (guessing) when their med. trajectory did not react / match up well with the first classification, some analysis was done (at P-D? or?) and the return was Novichok (I don’t believe that), but one can parse it as ‘presence of some substance’ different from common, known, street/pharma opioids. Immediately the similarity with the Skripals, geo proximity, etc. kicked in…

I always thought that Skripals story -whatever happened- was some kind of lame plot gone wrong, maybe accident (food ..), weird happening (mother-in-law gone postal..), botched, non-professional attack, whatever.

When results of some ‘unexplained’ substance elements came in re. Skripals May-Bojo jumped on the Russia-Putin-Done-It, unadulterated (sic) hysterical pol. opportunism, very clumsy to boot, merely because Sergei was an ex-spy, and both were Russians. (Kinda failed btw.)

With this second incident, Amesbury, it will be more difficult, so the PTB will try to relate it to the first, by hook or by crook. (In fact all the theatre of closing off, demolishing, etc. territory and other may be related to this aim. Yes, there is the geo. prox., but that can be explained in various ways.)

I don’t believe Charlie + Dawn were affected by ‘bad’ or spiked heroin, because Dawn collapsed in the morning, and Charlie would never have touched a substance in the afternoon after that. (see b’s post.) Plus, the reaction of the hospital. Something, for now unexplained, is going on.

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/13951274.Man_caught_with_11_wraps_of_heroin_jailed/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-evacuate-novichok-victims-hostel-gxclnzx8c


Posted by: Noirette | Jul 6 2018 14:14 utc | 167

@167 There was a very good piece on off-guardian a few weeks ago (can't post the link but it has been republished on Duran) about British anti-Russia hysteria. The elite definitely fear any kind of Russian approchement with the EU. It doesn't explain why the average Brit should feel the same way....but perhaps they don't.

The World Cup should change a few minds.

Posted by: dh | Jul 6 2018 14:20 utc | 168

The British Establishment's obsessive compulsion to smear Russia with fact-free Novichok fairy tales reminded me of a rousing British anthem from Historical Times when self-congratulation was a national sport. Rumor has it that the Establishment adopted it as a lullaby and pick-me-up on nights rendered sleepless by recollections of vicious acts committed against Inferior Peoples in far off lands when Britain was a respected/ feared Superpower.
It begins..

Rule Britannia! Britannia Rules the waves!
???
Or was it...
Rule Britannia! Britannia waives the Rules?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 6 2018 15:10 utc | 169

@161 jen... thanks.. i had to look up sontaran to know what they were getting at!

Den Lille Abe - humour is good!

@167 virgile.. plausible theory..

what about the idea of some rogue scientist from porton down? has that theory gotten any mileage? maybe he is in cahoots with SCL, or m16 and etc?? seems to be working as far as it goes, sorta..

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2018 15:31 utc | 170

Dear Perfidious Albion, you have been severely wing-shot, you cant hide it anymore, the unruly Scots are even more unruly, the Irish don't give F., your women (Mrs May) cant have children (Too Ugly, horse-like, even the Vikings said so), the brain dead roaming the streets for the next fix, Hallelujah! Well they stumble on the homeless, and bump into the unemployed or the zero hour slaves. Praise the Lord, we are Poor We Poor , but we are are proud, but Lord , we are so foking poor and desperate, Help us, your chosen People, give us from the continental Savages (Barnier) Who have so much hoarded, Relieve us from our misery and show a way out!!! And The Lord Answered: You must imbibe on Novichock, Novichock, Gods own Brand, Novichock for People, Pets and Plants!!!! and the add whent on sky 4 and the beeeb and suddenly we had a Jamestown V. 2.0 floating in the channel!!! And the Continental savages sang "Auld lang syne" because they missed the Scothch Single Malt 14 Year Oban Highland Malt. But the savages were strong the made the Mackmyra, and partied in the streets and had consensual sex on all the beaches, the British voyeurs were beaten!!And many babies were born, all different shades and colors...

* James Joyce, Jack Kerouac, Knut Hamsun, George Orwell, Gravity's Rainbow, André Gide and Celine

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 6 2018 15:35 utc | 171

He began garbling incoherently and I could tell he was hallucinating. He was making weird noises and acting like a zombie.

Speaking Russian, perhaps?

Posted by: S | Jul 6 2018 16:02 utc | 172

Posted by: Paul | Jul 5, 2018 8:42:58 PM | 149

This is a most perceptive and seeming-to-me realistic scenario.

Let's assume that Skripal did write the dossier. Were his monthly visits to the Russian Embassy to try and find a way of returning to Russia and thereby put himself beyond reach? Did that effort fail and the idea for him to disappear begin?

The Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee still want to interview Steele: https://investigaterussia.org/media/2018-07-02/senate-intel-courts-steele. If Skripal is officially 'dead' Steele could say his source was a former double agent who was part of the 2010 spy-swap that took Anna Chapman to Moscow - but sadly, he is now dead. End of story. With Skripal alive, it is not so easy... if Steele reveals his source, the committees will probably want to speak to Skripal - which lots of people don't want.

For this reason also, now that the world knows Skripal is not dead, it is very unlikely that the Brits would let Skripal go and and hide in the US - that is exactly where they don't want him to be.

You will recall that in early April, we were told the Skripals would never recover - that was plan B. Yulia blew that out of the water by making her phone call in which she said everyone would recover (incidentally the Russians will know all about that call: where it was made from, the number, etc. etc.) - that call was not supposed to happen. It leaves the Brits with no reasonable option - how are they going to 'lose' Sergei now?

On 5 April, Martin Brunt (live on Sky News) said that none of his sources had seen the couple in the hospital. Not a single nurse willing to say anything; not a single photo of the Skripals in hospital, or even a photo of the hospital computer system showing their names – that would have been worth a lot of money! They were NEVER there!

If this is what happened, the Brits have a real problem which might ultimately have implications for UK/US relations. And I think they don't have a clue what to do now - so they will 'stonewall' it for the time being. In the meantime, Yulia has got fed up and wants to go back to Moscow...

Right! The eccentric Groucho Marx style of recent British foreign policy
does seem to be contiguous with the Hillary-Trump-Seth Rich wierdness.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 6 2018 16:03 utc | 173

Most likely, the new "Novichok" development is a sloppy attempt to avert peoples' attention from the Steele-Skripal connection.
M16 is deep into the Steele Dossier and the ever-opportunistic Skripal was, almost for sure, a co-author of the salacious and unverifiable compilation that has been directed against the POTUS.
The FBI illegal political activities are on display, as well as of the CIA and DOJ. There is more heating coming for the hapless and hiding Steele.
The Salisbury farse displays ignorance, incompetence, opportunism, and dishonesty -- all the main traits of the "chemical weapons expert" Hamish de Bretton Gordon, the main proponent of "Russians did it."
Hamish de Bretton Gordon has been with M16 for a long time, which explains his irresponsible and demented pronouncements. The scoundrel is a well-known war profiteer:
"Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is a chemical weapons expert and chief operating officer of SecureBio Limited.
De Bretton-Gordon is Managing Director CBRN at Avon Protection, the recognised global market leader in respiratory protection system technology specialising primarily in Military, Law Enforcement, Firefighting, and Industrial.
In a February 2016 video interview, Hamish de Bretton-Gordon said he was running 32 hospitals and clinics across Syria in territory controlled by ISIS, and where the White Helmets were operating." https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Hamish_de_Bretton-Gordon
You see, Hamish is a cordial friend with the head choppers and liver eaters -- all because ISIS is such a great force for making money on weaponry.

Posted by: Anna | Jul 6 2018 16:05 utc | 174

A November 2016 article in Time, "Heroin Is Being Laced With a Terrifying New Substance: What to Know About Carfentanil", reports over 300 cases of overdose related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogues and several deaths connected to the drug since August 2016 in several of the United States, including Ohio, West Virginia, Indiana, Kentucky and Florida.[10] In 2017, a Milwaukee, Wisconsin man died from a carfentanil overdose, likely taken unknowingly with another illegal drug such as heroin or cocaine.[11] Carfentanil is most often taken with heroin or by users who believe they are taking heroin. Carfentanil is added to or sold as heroin because it is less expensive, easier to obtain (until China added it to its list of controlled substances on 1 March 2017, it was legal for Chinese firms to advertise and sell carfentanil over the Internet, offering advice to customers in other countries on how to import it illegally) and easier to make than heroin.[3] Health professionals are increasingly concerned about potential for escalated public health consequences of recreational use.

it appears porton down had suggested back in 2012 that russia was using this in the moscow theatre hostage crisis of 2012... the timing is interesting and of course wikipedia is a real propaganda shop... either way, the blame, regardless of facts always goes back to russia, lol..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2018 16:45 utc | 175

dh@169

I quote: ' The elite definitely fear any kind of Russian approchement with the EU. It doesn't explain why the average Brit should feel the same way....but perhaps they don't.

The World Cup should change a few minds.'

The average Brit DOES NOT feel the same way, especially anyone who has a knowledge of recent Russian history, and 'current affairs' generally. The Tory party upper echelons are by no means representative of the 'average Brit' which includes the peoples of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland where more nuanced attitudes prevail.

The average Brit is too busy keeping his or her head above water in the neo-conservative 'race to the bottom' capitalist paradise this country has become and is rather worried about the effect of the botched Brexit on his or her own nearest and dearest and job prospects. As for hating the dreaded Putin, many of us admire him for turning Russia around after the Yeltsin disaster, taking on the fat-cat oligarchs (something our so-called leaders would never do as they fund the Tory party), and at least meaning what he says and doing what he says.
We have no animosity at all against the Russian people or Russia generally, because we know that in any great face-off the UK has zero Civil Defence capability and we and our families will be barbecued while the PTB have safe bolt-holes prepared in foreign countries.

No, the average Brit is seeing in the World Cup a country totally different to that he has been told about, with clean streets, low crime, public transport that appears to work well,and a leadership that appears a great deal more talented than the squadrons of inbred half-wits who cannot even run a decent deception operation. The minute D-notices were issued, we knew it was an inside job.

I was in The Cold War and went through all the security inductions etc. Foe one thing, we never disparaged the Russians, or treated them lightly, and we certainly did not think of them in juvenile or dismissive terms. They were a potential adversary that we may have someday to fight, and having had knowledge of what they had done to the Wehrmacht and SS, that was something to ponder.

Those 'avaerage Brits' who went to Russia for the football are already Instagraming and texting that 'it's alright here, not what we have been led to beleive' with the unspoken subtext that in some respects it's better, and this is the great dread of the English ruling class - that, and Trump and Putin coming to an arrangement which basically shuts the UK out of the room. The upper class of the Tory party despise the 'average Brit' and the average Brit knows it. That means we don't, in the main, share their views.

You are right, the images from the World Cup and the way Putin & Co demolished ISIS who were being touted as the next terrorist bete-noire are not lost on 'average Brit'. WE do not share the views of the May regime and if the unfortunate pair of pawns in Amesbury are sacrificed (I expect this to happen, given the shrillness of the build-up) for political expediency then the Nazi Party has taken over.

Posted by: Emmanuel Goldstein | Jul 6 2018 17:59 utc | 176

In the good old USA,Trump has exploded the heads of the msm,bush,the clown,and the nice Putin.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 6 2018 18:06 utc | 177

Since the theme of this thread is Bulldust & Whimsy this link to SST's July 6 posting is similar in context if not topic. It concerns FaceBorg's removal of sections of text from a posting on Facebook of verbatim passages from the Declaration Of Independence, on the basis that the deleted text breached Community Standards.
It's brief and incisive and begs interesting questions about Robots, Automation, Good Intentions and Paternalism.
And with a bit of a stretch, Sincerity.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/07/censoring-the-declaration-of-independence-or-a-society-of-robots-cannot-long-survive.html

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 6 2018 18:19 utc | 178

@179 That is good to hear. The 'average Brit' has nothing to fear from Russia and Putin puts the 'squadrons of inbred half-wits' to shame. Clearly the anti-Russian propaganda is wasted on them.

I don't know if there is a modern equivalent but there used to be people in Britain called Working Class Tories. They were staunchly patriotic and regarded Russians as godless bolsheviks. If there are any left they no doubt had some dire warnings for the courageous England fans who risked life and limb by going to Russia.

Posted by: dh | Jul 6 2018 18:37 utc | 179

Anna @ 175
Thanks for that brilliant summary, that's an important peace of the jig saw puzzle !
Did you know he was also a major influence behind the slur campaign against the Labour Party regarding fake Anti Jew complaints.
Also guess what, his business is based not far from Portland down Chem base. He lives in Salisbury of all places !!
And gets rewarded by frequent bbc apperences!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6 2018 20:08 utc | 180

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 6, 2018 10:14:28 AM | 168
"I don’t believe Charlie + Dawn were affected by ‘bad’ or spiked heroin, because Dawn collapsed in the morning, and Charlie would never have touched a substance in the afternoon after that. (see b’s post.)"

Haven't spent much time hanging with junkies I reckon.

Not that I believe anything in the MSM about either of these alleged "Novichok attacks." Just that junkies do not always act in rational ways.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 6 2018 21:36 utc | 181

@177 Emmanuel Goldstein.. thanks for articulating all that... i will keep it in mind as the uk continues to head for the gutter.. it is not the little guy that is responsible for this, but the elite that run the uk - right on up to the queen..

Posted by: james | Jul 6 2018 23:13 utc | 182

@183James....Thank you. Remember, the MO in the UK is to privatise profits and socialise losses. They think we don't realise this. It's very interesting to observe the implosion of the May regime at close quarters. The Brexit vote was only partly about Brexit for most people. What it was REALLY about was the wholesale negative changes that have been forced upon Mr and Mrs Average Brit over the last 50 years with any comment or dissent stifled by 'we are in charge and we know better'.....both left and right colluded in this. The Brexit referendum blunder by Cameron was the perfect opportunity to stop globalisation in the UK dead in its tracks. We have no beef with modernisation if it brings new opportunities, but in the UK it was a cover for outsourcing, offshoring and dumbing-down of the economy generally where high-value tech and mangerial jobs were replaced by zero-hour peonage. Average Brit sees the future that beckons for his children and grand-children and is not happy. If Brexit is what it takes to restore the capabilities of this country, then so be it, a sentiment I heard from many around me at the time. I voted to remain, because I could see the economic dislocation leaving would cause, but I abide by the democratic wish, and anyway, any institution that cannot get its accounts passed off by its own Court of Auditors is taking us all for a ride.

We NEED people of the calibre of Putin and his team running this country. The sheer intellectual capacity of the man is awesome, and he never went to Eton or Oxbridge.....this is what the Tories can't understand...and it frightens them, and the likes of Sergei Lavrov can dismiss the buffoon Johnson by the mere raising of an eyebrow. Compare that team to ours and then start talking transfer fees. Throw in Maria Zakharova for reading the news and we may get something with more intellectual bite, pertinent comment and a lot more class than the harridans who are currently fronting this failing deception plan....

The fans will be coming home soon with tales of a country totally at odds with what they were told. That realisation will sink in to the public consciousness just as the Brexit deal starts to unfold. Not good for the Tories, who are on the brink of a civil war in the party anyway, a distraction was required. That's not going to work either, and labelling anyone in the UK who questions the 'official' narrative as a 'Putin troll' or 'useful idiot' insults the intelligence of any average Brit who can see that things don't add up here. No, average Brit is quite happy with the welcome the fans have had in Russia and what he can see of the place on the screen, along with the traveller's tales coming back from football commentators and players. Conclusions are being drawn and this whole thing has yet to play out. The World Cup will be a factor in the final denoument, as well as Brexit and the Trump - Putin meeting. In the next three weeks I think it will become VERY interesting. Keep watching the UK as Mr and Mrs. Average Brit are about to have their say....

Posted by: Emmanuel Goldstein | Jul 7 2018 4:50 utc | 183

I found this comment on the salisbury journal:

Adrian884th July 9:35 pm
SwindonFire RDS @SwindonFireRDS tweeted at 7:48AM - 1 July 2018:

77 mile round trip for our Operational Support Unit last night to Amesbury. Thankfully the incident wasnt serious and our decontamination shower wasnt required.

The tweet included two photographs and additional text description as to the non-serious nature of this incident "thought to have been a drug-related medical episode".

This morning, right after Lee Hannon @HannonTV flagged the tweet @ https://twitter.com/SwindonFireRDS/status/1013434161334505473 and retweeted it - Swindon Fire RDS deleted their tweet. It's been screencapped - thankfully.

Posted by: ross | Jul 7 2018 12:29 utc | 184


Posted by: somebody @85

One thing struck me from the witness accounts - the woman took a bath when she started feeling unwell, the guy a shower. As if they knew they might have been poisoned by skin contact.

Bathing was Dawn's neurotic complusion to re-live the happy days of her childhood;
the only bathtub available to her was in her dowager mom's flat. So we have her there.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 7 2018 17:51 utc | 185

Lot of UK government trolls on here. Still, Dawn's mother in fact works at MoD Boscombe Down RAF aircraft testing base. As does the father of Dawn's two grown-up boys. They both have security clearance.

Posted by: Patrick Mahony | Jul 7 2018 18:50 utc | 186

The UK government is in a bit of bother now. It really has upped the ante now, deliberately or otherwise.

https://www.rt.com/uk/432342-woman-novichok-amesbury-police/

Posted by: Bevin Kacon | Jul 9 2018 0:12 utc | 187

@ 135 Cassandra.

..I am afraid they will let the woman die this time ..

Looks like you were spot on!

Posted by: Bevin Kacon | Jul 9 2018 1:07 utc | 188

@ 165

It seems to me that the bottom line of this complete farce is drug taking. Its quite likely that someone in the Salisbury area has a home made lab somewhere and is making this stuff for sale to junkies. The Skripals could have easily used some of this stuff as a recreational drug especially as its obviously not a weapons grade chemical, because it doesn't appear to kill anyone. The real mystery is as ever , the policeman in this affair who I think was used as a prop is this theater of the absurd.

John, part of me thinks you're a government troll. Am I right?

Posted by: Bevin Kacon | Jul 9 2018 1:14 utc | 189

@184 Emmanuel Goldstein.. thanks for your post and everything you articulate in this as well! i wish the ordinary person and extended family in britian and the uk well in all this.. i live in canada and i honestly think we are being sold down the river too, but not as quickly as it appears in the uk / usa...

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2018 2:03 utc | 190

Before the death of Dawn Sturgess, James Nixey, head of the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House, explained that the death of either victim would be useful for the British Government :
"The emergence of additional victims “will give it a renewed sense of urgency,” particularly if one of them succumbs (...) If either victim dies, he added, “it becomes a murder investigation, and it’s involving a British national rather than a Russian national.”"

Posted by: Inquirer | Jul 9 2018 15:21 utc | 191

Addition to my last post :
I don’t say that the British Government killed Dawn Sturgess, but since a murder investigation against Russia was so desirable, it is possible that, when hearing there were two drugs addict persons dangerously ill in the Salisbury hospital, one decided to make this a pretext for a murder investigation against Russia, in the likely case where one of the victims died.

Posted by: Inquirer | Jul 9 2018 16:13 utc | 192

One Hundred Years of Chemical Warfare: Research, Deployment, Consequences, p. 86 (Google Books):

In January 1917, prompted by the devastating effects of Germany's mustard gas attack, Porton established a permanent laboratory for physiological tests on humans at nearby Boscombe Down Farm.

Secret Science: A Century of Poison Warfare and Human Experiments, p. 57 (Google Books):

Britain's chemical warfare programme not only needed to be justified to the servicemen and the general public, but information about it had to be carefully controlled for reasons of national security. Those living near Porton, some of whom had been forcibly evicted from their homes during the Great War to allow for expansion of the testing ground, generally had little, if any, access to information about ongoing field trials, even when these affected their immediate environment and in some cases their own persons. Anticipating future gas attacks from the air, Porton had, as early as 1923, developed a retaliatory aircraft spraying device, which had 'high casualty producing potential over large areas'. Further trials confirmed the possibility of effectively spraying mustard gas from planes flying at altitudes of up to 10,000 feet. During these trials harmless, coloured chemicals accidentally contaminated parts of the nearby Wiltshire countryside. In one case, a woman living close to Porton found pink spots all over the perambulator carrying her new-born baby. In another, the housewives of military personnel living near Boscombe Down aerodrome, 2 miles from Porton, were furious when one of Porton's field trials stained all their washing. For the local community, the 'Porton camp', as it was known, provided employment and security for many, but it was also viewed with suspicion because of its secretive nature.

Posted by: S | Jul 10 2018 1:42 utc | 193

Many questions and comments....

http://www.theblogmire.com/its-the-wrong-park-how-the-ducks-raise-some-serious-questions-in-the-salisbury-poisonings/

Posted by: daffyDuct | Jul 13 2018 1:09 utc | 194

There is another scenario.
Russia assessed that the Skripals suicide pact was a plausible story.
They have access to Sergei’s forensics from his jail time.
They then put his DNA and fingerprints on the novichok “bottle”, maybe several bottles, and left them around Salisbury where a drunk might pick them up.
The unfortunate Dawn did find one. That bottle is found and now police and security services either have to lie and say Sergei’s forensics not on it or say they are and checkmate to Russia.

Posted by: Patrick Mahony | Jul 14 2018 14:43 utc | 195

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