Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 09, 2018

BREXIT - Still Not Gonna Happen

Good news: The pictured man is no longer the Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom.


Bad news: The pictured man may soon be the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

Hours before Boris Johnson quit his position, Brexit Secretary David Davis resigned from Prime Minister May's cabinet.

On July 6 the British government held a cabinet meeting at Chequers, the private seat of the prime minister. Following the meeting it published a paper (pdf) that took a weird position towards exiting the European Union. If it would be followed, Britain would practically end up with staying in the EU, accepting nearly all its regulations and court decisions, but without any say over what the EU decides. The paper was clearly written by the 'Remain' side. The two top Brexiters in May's cabinet felt cheated and resigned. More are likely to follow.

The majority of the British people who voted to leave the EU must feel duped.

My hunch is that Prime Minister Theresa May was tasked with 'running out the clock' in negotiations with the EU. Then, shortly before the March 2019 date of a 'hard Brexit' would arrive without any agreement with the EU, the powers that be would launch a panic campaign to push the population into a new vote. That vote would end with a victory for the 'Remain' side. The UK would continue to be a member of the European Union.

Shortly before the original Brexit vote in June 2016 MoA headlined: BREXIT - Not Gonna Happen

No matter how the Brexit vote will go, the powers that are will not allow Britain to exit the European Union.

pic via Aenea Endymion

That's all.

Is that claim still justified?

Maybe Johnson the Brexiter can now launch an inner party coup and push Theresa May out. According to a YouGov poll she lost significant support within her conservative party. Besides the Brexit row she botched a snap election, lost her party's majority in parliament and seems to have no clear concept for anything. It would not be a loss for mankind to see her go.

Boris the clown, who wins within his party on 'likability' and 'shares my political outlook', would then run the UK. A quite amusing thought. Johnson is a man of no principles. While he is currently pretending to hold a pro-Brexit position he would probably run the same plan that May seems to execute: Delay as long as possible, then panic the people into a re-vote, then stay within the EU.

Then again - Boris may do the unexpected.

How do the British people feel about this?

Posted by b on July 9, 2018 at 15:43 UTC | Permalink

next page »

UK people stated it takes at least six months to 'build' the referendum. That means you need to start now if you want to hold a referendum before March 29th. And both the Tories and Corbyn's Labour are pro-Brexit.
On March 30th, UK is a dead country, outside the EU, and all they can do is ask re-admission, but they will need to line up in the queue behind the others.
I say 'dead country' because on March 30th:
- no planes can leave UK for Europe, US and probably other destinations. UK pilots cannot fly European/US planes, and no repair/maintenance facilities remain.
- no nuclear material (reactor fuel, cancer treatment) can be imported.
- fresh food will probably rot while customs paperwork is not being done, and trucks queue up at the border.
- no Euros can be cleared in the City
- some kind of war will break out on the Irish/NI border.
- no industrial production with EU/non-EU parts will continue for long.
- UK nationals need a visa to enter Ireland
etc etc

Posted by: Jeff | Jul 9 2018 15:59 utc | 1

Did you notice how quickly th E U sided with the U K over Salisbury ? That was the deal.
Remain in EU and we're back you!
Then again could have been we'l create a false flag you back us and we'll stay , a suttle nuonce.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 9 2018 16:07 utc | 2

The likelihood is that the blairite faction in the Parliamentary Labour Party-which has no real political differences with the Tories and is fanatically pro EU, as all neo-liberals are- will prop up the May government. Or a Tory government headed by another Remainer, with Blairites in the Cabinet.
This will prevent the General Election which Tories of all parties fear.
There is an excellent piece in the Boston Review on the EU-
Iy makes the point that "The European Union offers the fullest realization of the neoliberal political vision. Its incomplete integration—with its confusing mix of powers—is precisely the goal."
It traces the neo-liberal project, designed to prevent democracy from controlling economic policy, back to von Mises and Hayek.
Nothing is more mistaken for critics of imperialism than to buy the line that the EU represents internationalism in any sens. The fact that some racists oppose the EU-just as others support it as a 'white" bastion- is no reason to give an institution which is profoundly and purposefully undemocratic the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 9 2018 16:21 utc | 3

@Jeff - #1 - You are correct. There will not be another referendum.

I would add that there is some chance, however small, that on March 29th the British government will tell the EU that they just have no way to meet the requirements of Article 50 and would the EU please allow them to continue as a member of the EU and forget about all the shenanigans of the past 2 years. The EU has said previously that they will accept such a result and allow the UK to continue as a member. The Brexiteers will have a total meltdown, and May will most likely be thrown out of office, but most businesses and many individuals will be quite happy for this whole thing to just go away.

For those interested see which has been following the Brexit chaos since the beginning.

Posted by: John Zelnicker | Jul 9 2018 16:23 utc | 4

Britain - PATHETIC

It is a wondrous sight to see Western Liberal Democracy crumbling before our eyes. Have a look at the very founders and protectors of "freedom" corrupt to the very marrow of their bones.

In the US Trump, in the UK the Torys the democracies are now openly imperial and openly corrupt. Rule of law - ask the Skripals.

Brexit, Russia, Skripals, Russia, junkies and poisons Russians - minority government - ministers resigning right and left deadlines looming no solutions in sight.

Western civilization is based on the Enlightenment and the Enlightenment and all its ideas of "democracy" are failing. Democracy is not a religion, it is not the end of history, it is not sacred and immutable - checks and balances have failed utterly.

This sweetly written little essay says it all.

Posted by: Babyl-on | Jul 9 2018 16:24 utc | 5

"It would not be a loss for mankind to see her go."
Wow, real British understatement - and I thought you're a German B...

Posted by: Pnyx | Jul 9 2018 16:30 utc | 6

May (sic) I add----- it would not be a loss to see her go to prison

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 9 2018 16:38 utc | 7

By the way B. I appreciate you're covering the Brexit or not skirmishes, but what about the situation in the genocidal Yemen war?

Posted by: Pnyx | Jul 9 2018 16:43 utc | 8

If that were an American bloke hanging off the London Eye he would be wearing long socks, with no leg showing. American men understand long socks.

Posted by: tricky_woo | Jul 9 2018 16:46 utc | 9

If that were an American bloke hanging off the London Eye he would be wearing long socks, with no leg showing. American men understand long socks.

Posted by: tricky_woo | Jul 9 2018 16:46 utc | 10

thanks b... it's interesting conjecture on your part - brexit still not going to happen... it would seem that the neoliberals don't want it to happen... britian looks like a mess at present..

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2018 16:49 utc | 11

The tousle-headed former Lord Mayor looks like he is uncomfortable just standing up in that photo! No doubt a fitting ally for the plutocratic clique looking to offload Theresa May!
Also that scorecard on EU respect for the will of various EU member states looks legitimate to me.

Posted by: DougDiggler | Jul 9 2018 16:55 utc | 12

Look for countries to unilaterally bail from the EU with little or no advance notice. They will simply abrogate and that will trigger an avalanche of others joining in. There are various good economic reasons why they would do that, but I think the groundswell of populism fueled by anger over the open borders cataclysm will be the prime driver.

Posted by: erik | Jul 9 2018 16:58 utc | 13

Anything bad that can happen to the UK is well-deserved.

The home, the womb of Russophobia, lies and illegal wars, as well as the hub of spying against American citizens, is exposed as thoroughly bankrupt politically.

The current path to chaos is well-trod.

Now, we can expect national attention is on the team in Russia in the semi-finals, while the government crumbles and tumbles.

But afterward, especially if Kane fails to bring the Cup home?

Oh, the chaos.

Of course, it will all be Putin and Russia's fault.

UK. Despicable.

How long it has taken for folks to realize Theresa May always has been a stalking horse.

Highly Likely the UK will stew in its own piss.

Put that in their White Hall dossiers, and stamp it "Kremlin Plot".

Posted by: Red Ryder | Jul 9 2018 17:12 utc | 14

Britain won't be staying in the EU and nor will the EU be accepting May's fantasy ideas for a future relationship giving the UK free trade on everything it needs. There's a remote possibility that a new UK government could begin working on re-joining the EU (Article 49), but there are plenty in Europe who would not let the UK re-join, at least not in the near future.
Friday the 13th is coming soon, scary stuff ?

The "Don't take No for an answer" is rather misleading. Made to vote again ..only after changes to the Treaty. France's vote against the EU Constitution was accepted and when the Dutch also rejected it, it didn't happen.

Posted by: Al-Pol | Jul 9 2018 17:19 utc | 15

UE is bound to collapse but Britain might be tempted to wait it out, and maybe it is the game in London: not to be the first.
The most dynamic destructive work in progress is the Euro that benefit to none of its 18 members (the euro-zones) but Geramny and Nederland.
Italy has understood it but is using the refugees crisis to enlarge the contestation to non-euro zone countries (Visegrad group and more).

Now we have this Nato meeting coming and the abomination of Donald meeting Vlad that scares the whole neo-lberals, borgists, russian haters, warmongers.

As Nato is the real and only cement in this enlarged un-united europe, in an epoch of accelerating change (collapse maybe) the famous Wait and see of the Brits has just muted in a slow fox-trot.

Posted by: Charles Michael | Jul 9 2018 17:41 utc | 16

Just found out that b and I, have wildly different opinions on the meaning of "Amusing"...
The thought of BoJo as PM is alleviated only by the fact that the Tump has to say yes before the can use the "nukes, ehhhhh ?
On the other hand UK IS leaving, has no possibility of reversing anything , which is good, now we jut have to find the moorings and chop away, so GB can sail into the west...
And remember all your Novivchok too...

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 9 2018 17:43 utc | 17

Brits, especially the Leave voters, have no real idea what the consequences of leaving the EU are, nor do they care that much. What is uppermost in their minds is they do not want is to be in a union with "losers". Every single country on the Continent is a loser and thus the object of contempt. The only country in Europe that is not a loser (meaning they have never lost a war) is the United Kingdom of Roast Beef and God Save The Queen. This British loser-phobia also explains the island nation's guttural hatred of Russia, which has bailed out Europe, and so by definition the Brits as well, twice, thereby taking away some of the British luster. (OK the last time around they got a bit of help from their old colonies, the Yanks, but its all the same. Yanks and Brits are the same stock.) As far as EU goes the Brits can leave, no problem. Except that what the Continent would then be faced with was an American armed camp a few miles off shore, not an appealing prospect to say the least. But the puffed up Brits do not even see this danger and would blithely fall into the arms of the mafiosi from across the pond.

Posted by: Daniel Good | Jul 9 2018 17:45 utc | 18

Boris Johnson's resignation letter

Well written. Makes the same argument over the Checkers paper that I made above.

If Johnson gets 48 back benchers on his side he could launch a vote on no-confidence against May and possibly become PM. The Conservatives in Parliament seem quite upset over all of this.

Posted by: b | Jul 9 2018 18:08 utc | 19

Brexit is rebellion against the US imposed world order. London money has gone along and profited from the US imposed order, but the ordinary Brits may not have. They may not know where they are going, but they do know where they do not want to be.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 18:10 utc | 20

It seems Ms.May botched Brexit, at least that's what 68% of Brits feel.

This notion that planes can't fly and food will rot in ports is only if they allow that to happen. Britain have trained pilots, air traffic control systems, radar at their airports and of course aircraft. I'm sure the Americans will allow them to fly their aircraft into the US. Now flying into the EU and vice versa may not happen for a while.

Posted by: ab initio | Jul 9 2018 18:19 utc | 21

@20 Not sure who qualifies as an 'ordinary Brit' these days. They come in all shapes and colours. I think the ones who moved to Spain are fairly happy with the EU status quo.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 18:44 utc | 22

Thanks for the posting b

I liked the "We are headed for the status of a colony" comment in the Johnson resignation letter

Getting the puppets to talk about the machinations of empire is a good thing for us but probably not good long term for empire.

No one ever said that evolving to a multi-polar world would be easy. All the ugly that kept the unipolar world together must be exposed as it dies.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 9 2018 18:48 utc | 23

Non London money. Those that have lived in UK long enough that the Brit culture and past are their own. Generally a few generations.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 18:51 utc | 24

@24 Would that be the lads down the pub or does it include people in Hampstead?

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 18:55 utc | 25

Oooo Jeeeremy Cooorbyn (repeat lots of times). Come on jezzer !!! Look at the state of'm !!! We'v had enough of far right nuckle dragging warmongers. Time to take the streets!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 9 2018 18:57 utc | 26

Put it this way dh, my sense of Australia goes back to convict settlement days. My sense of Australia is slightly different to two of my mates who are first generation Australians. and they are Australians - they have no other language nor country. They generally tell me I must have a bit of blackfella in me.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 19:01 utc | 27

dh a bit more on that. Our veiws towards the US are different. They think the Americanized version of Australia that we have has always been Australian culture whereas second or third generation Australians would have noticed the change. This change is not due to American immigrants which would be normal if that were the case, but due to US influence.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 19:07 utc | 28

Allow me to enlighten.

Dominic Raab is the new UK Brexit point-man. The previous guy, Davies, just resigned. But Raab’s appointment, I think, points to what Brexit has been about all along — namely, labour market reform beyond the rest of Europe, and to do this the UK must be free of the European Human Rights council and other protections it provides for workers in the member states.

Here is Raab’s 2011 paper on employment standards and Brexit.

Have a look.

Posted by: ninel | Jul 9 2018 19:11 utc | 29

@23 psychohistorian... ditto... status of colony... isn't that what the globalists, corporations, neo liberals and etc want? get rid of any national identity as it gets in the way of corporations having the freedom to rape and pillage as needed..

it was interesting reading near the end of bjs comments "Over the last few months they have shown how many friends this country has around the world, as 28 governments expelled Russian spies in an unprecedented protest at the attempted assassination of the Skripals." guilty first - we will prove it later... maybe he really ought to consider rule from brussels or where ever, if he can't fathom the concept of innocent until proven guilty...

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2018 19:12 utc | 30

@27 Yes. I'm always very careful when I visit Oz because I know you must get a bit tired of being called ex-convicts. Blackfellas? Best not to mention them I find.

Still wondering about 'ordinary Brits' though. Maybe you have to be white, live in a council house and eat pot noodles to qualify. If you’ve got a few quid tucked away and a place in Spain you can’t be an ordinary Brit. What about Boris’ Tory party 'leave' mates? Nothing ordinary about them.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 19:13 utc | 31

@28 I can trace the American influence back quite a way (I'm old enough to remember 'On The Beach'). Then there was WW2, Korea and Vietnam and Oz became what it is today. A Western bastion against the Yellow Peril. Must be quite confusing for older folk to see all the changes.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 19:20 utc | 32

dh my mothers side traces back to a convict transported from England, my fathers side to free settlers. Australia began as a penal colony and then as a mix of free settlers freed convicts and penal colonies. Tasmaina, NSW, Queensland and Western australia were seperate British colonies that all began as penal settlement. Victoria and South Australia began with Free settlers and the northern territory was just a territory. originaly part of South Australia but the top half was chopped off and called the territory and people just sort of wandered in there and started cattle stations.

Urban areas or areas where the aboriginal people have lost their culture the word to use is Aboriginal or indigenous. The they haven't lost their culture the word is blackfella. I'm a whitefella and half castes and Asians are yellerfellas.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 19:27 utc | 33

@33 I spent a bit of time on a cattle station near Alice in my youth.....working with blackfellas (they called themselves that so I guess it's OK). So I'm fairly familiar with Ozzie culture but probably things have changed a lot lately.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 19:32 utc | 34

Al-Pol @ 15

The French populace rejected the EU Constitution in 2005 during the Chirac years, and you are correct that after some changes it was accepted under the Sarkozy government.But that happened because it was the Assembly (the parliament, i.e., the political class) that voted on it, not the people. Can’t have those deplorable citizens deciding important matters like that, now can we?

Posted by: NotBob | Jul 9 2018 19:42 utc | 35

@bevin Thanks for link to that great Boston Review article. I recommend to everyone.

Posted by: The Polemicist | Jul 9 2018 19:55 utc | 36

I put in a good part of my life in western Queenland. Couple of years in the Kimberlies half way between Derby and Kunnunura. Went up to Alice for the Fink desert race for a few years. By then I was just doing a bit of work for a mate. He used to race when he was younger but I knew he hadn't raced for nine years. Hadn't even been on a bike in nine years. He dragged his old race bike out one day and we headed up there. I thought he was crazy because he looked totally out of shape and had not practiced at all. He must have been able to ride when he was younger because came in faster and a lot fresher than a lot of the blokes in his age group. anyway enough of the OT.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 19:57 utc | 37

This is fairly off-topic, apart from UK-related. I don't want to wait for the next Skripal thread, but I also want to pin it publicly somewhere so it doesn't vanish in the memory hole ---

There was an incident in Amesbury on March 6th, i.e. three days after the Skripal incident. A car was examined by police, firefighters in protection gear, the area cordoned off etc.

The incident lasted a couple of hours. All media report a connection to the Skripals, but the exact nature of this connection - f.i. have the Skripals been at this place? - has obviously not been revealed by officials.

Here are two sources (among others) for those who are interested.

In the light of the Amesbury poisoning, this might be relevant.

Posted by: mk | Jul 9 2018 19:58 utc | 38

> he told his fellow cabinet ministers last week May’s Brexit proposals amounted to “polishing a turd”.

Posted by: mauisurfer | Jul 9 2018 20:42 utc | 39

It´s irrelevant if BJ becomes PM of the UK. In May 18 the foreign ministers of all European countries including the UK signed this plan. It it succeeds it will change Europe and the UK, regardless of staying or leaving the EU, definitely. The USA must be thrilled.

Posted by: K | Jul 9 2018 20:46 utc | 40

@37 Use bikes for mustering now I hear....even helicopters. Prefer horses myself.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 20:47 utc | 41

Nags are too slow. Good in the channels or rough country. Prefer to fly m'self.
I flew a mad max style gyrocopter. In the Kimberlies it was all feral cattle I was mustering so it was buggies on the ground and I would get a couple of Choppers in. i would work the open country with my little wirly bird and the choppers would work the creek channels where they could get down between the trees and the choppers would do the final yard up. Clearing run after the muster was bull catching with buggies. I would find little and run the out onto a flat where the catcher buggy would pick a bull out of the mob and catch it. Queensland I would just contract to fly and the property would supply the ground crew. Bikes and dogs. very occasionally horses but even then still need one or two bikes to get out to me fast and take a small mob off my hands.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 20:59 utc | 42

DH go over to the open thread. I will post a link to one of my stock camps in the Kimberlies.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 21:01 utc | 43

@43 Good for you. I just liked riding in the bush. Got an old photo of me on a brumby somewhere. I'm sure MOA readers would be fascinated to see it.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 21:16 utc | 44

House of cards.. Only that the deck is being shuffled. Another stable genius ahead. ;)

I think B is spot on.. Boris the Russophobe is the archetype of an opportunist, with no values, ready to turn for any advantage, no matter how short sighted or -lived.
And yeah, the letter is well written. And he even has the guts to push the evil russian meme in it.. as the main point why he is "proud" to have "served" in that goverment. Yikes.

And i share the sentiment of missing Independence. But not ONLY looking at the neo liberal, democracy killing Deutsch-EU.. The UK are first and foremost the colony of the US, not the EU.
Even if Juncker and Berlin dream of having the geo political power of Trump and his old/new deep state buddys.

Now prepare for even more Corbyn bashing propaganda, another election seems likely..

Posted by: SteLe/TheDarkCornerInUrBrain | Jul 9 2018 21:17 utc | 45

Still wondering about 'ordinary Brits' though. Maybe you have to be white, live in a council house and eat pot noodles to qualify.
Posted by: dh | Jul 9, 2018 3:13:55 PM | 31

Excuse Me-ee!
Have you never heard of fish & chips, or that old staple of British Cuisine/ Gastronomy > Bangers & Mash?

Give us a bash
At the bangers & mash
Me Muvver use-ta make.

Bangers & mash (Minestrone!)
Bangers & mash (Macarone!)

Give us a bash
At the bangers & mash
Me Muvver use-ta make.

Peter Sellers & (Sophia Loren)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 9 2018 21:21 utc | 46

@46 Yes indeed. Bangers and mash is a gastronomic masterpiece... the pride of English cuisine.

I suppose my point was the 'ordinary Brits' are as confused and divided about Brexit as everybody else. Even the extraordinary ones have lost the plot.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2018 21:30 utc | 47

dh 32
The 'water shed' in all this seeing Australia as a white bastion , locked against ( ie. 'rising China) Asia was the election of John Howard's conservative government in 1996 . A catastrophic moment in Australian history and that becomes clearer with each passing year !

Posted by: ashley albanese | Jul 9 2018 21:36 utc | 48

And then Abbott drove that home when he said we are part of the anglosphere, not part of the Asia pacific.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 21:45 utc | 49

Amazing ! There kind of imploding, like a black hole in space ! They seem to have no insight, totally unaware that the rest of the world are looking on with fascination. Ha ha credibility rating less than junk status !! He he it's all so sweet it's giving me diabetes! Ahh ha ha aaah !!!
Karma man ! Snigger.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 9 2018 21:46 utc | 50

According to this the EU was a US/CIA creation. Lol?

Posted by: Pft | Jul 9 2018 21:48 utc | 51

@51 pft... in so far as the cia work for the financial complex - yeah, probably.. how to create a currency - the eu - that no one has any real control over, to compete with the us$ and yen... makes sense on that level..

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2018 21:59 utc | 52

Western civilization is based on the Enlightenment and the Enlightenment and all its ideas ...
Posted by: Babyl-on | Jul 9, 2018 12:24:52 PM | 5

When we discuss ALL ideas of the Enlightenment, we must remember this:

Wikipedia: "Enlightened absolutism is the theme of an essay by Frederick the Great, who ruled Prussia from 1740 to 1786, defending this system of government.[1]

When the prominent French Enlightenment philosopher Voltaire fell out of favor in France, he eagerly accepted Frederick's invitation to live at his palace. He believed that an enlightened monarchy was the only real way for society to advance.

Frederick the Great was an enthusiast of French ideas. Frederick explained: "My principal occupation is to combat ignorance and prejudice ..."

In relatively short time, the List of enlightened despots included almost all absolute monarchs in Europe.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 9 2018 22:37 utc | 53

51 Much better summary on the CIA and the EU here.

From 2016

The awful truth for the Leave campaign is that the governing establishment of the entire Western world views Brexit as strategic vandalism. Whether fair or not, Brexiteers must answer this reproach. A few such as Lord Owen grasp the scale of the problem. Most seemed blithely unaware until Mr Obama blew into town last week.

And then came Trump - pro Brexit

Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, has come out in support of Brexit, saying the UK would be “better off” outside of the European Union and lamenting the consequences of migration in the continent.

The billionaire, who secured the backing of Republican voters on a staunchly anti-immigration platform, said that his support for the UK leaving the EU was a personal belief and not a “recommendation”.

“I think the migration has been a horrible thing for Europe,” Trump told Fox News late on Thursday. “A lot of that was pushed by the EU. I would say that they’re better off without it, personally, but I’m not making that as a recommendation. Just my feeling.”

And very anti-Merkel

Donald Trump accuses Angela Merkel of making 'catastrophic mistake' on refugees

President-elect tells The Times and Bild that EU has become 'a vehicle for Germany'

US President-elect Donald Trump said in a newspaper interview published on Sunday that German Chancellor Angela Merkel had made a “catastrophic mistake” with a policy that let a wave of more than one million migrants into her country.

In a joint interview with The Times and the German newspaper Bild, Trump also said the European Union had become “a vehicle for Germany” and predicted that more EU member states would vote to leave the bloc as Britain did last June.

“I think she made one very catastrophic mistake, and that was taking all of these illegals,” Trump said of Merkel, who in August 2015 decided to keep Germany's borders open for refugees, mostly Muslims, fleeing war zones in the Middle East.

Trump has reversed some 70 years of US strategy to gain - nothing. It is quite remarkable. Strategic vandalism is a good description.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 9 2018 22:38 utc | 54

Even when the 'light' (read truth about Brexit) is revealed, many here choose to ignore it out of sheer ignorance. For a good description of the MOA comment section, one should consult Plato's Allegory of the Cave. And the 'left' blames external elements for its inaptitude and demise when many it has only itself to blame.

Posted by: Ninel | Jul 9 2018 22:47 utc | 55


Good link, thanks

The thing about UK and the EU is the UK is basically the US 51st state and the US is a defacto commonwealth nation. The colonization of Europe by the US was never meant to encompass the UK and the City. As they are basically one and the same. Its presence in the EU was never really a problem though and was usefull in terms of providing a guiding hand, so long as it remained free of the Eurozone. So I am not really sure its a change in strategy. Just another fork in the road.

It remains to be seen how it all works out. Perhaps the UK Brexit is meant to send a message to the other EU states as to the consequences of leaving. One benefit to the US neoliberals might be that UK scraps or at least scales back its NHS due to the economic consequences of a hard Brexit. The 0.1% will be fine at the end of the day and they are the only group that matters . The rest are just pawns on the board.

As for Germany. Immigration in the EU was all about divide and rule and leaving fewer Euros for social programs. All part of the neoliberal blueprint. Divide and rule is an age old tactic perfected by the British to rule the colonies. The EU and Germany being controlled by the Anglo-American ruling elite , and basically occipied by US controlled NATO opened the doors. Reversing this immigration can provide a plausible reason for more terrorism in Europe to empower the EU to become more of a security-police state like US and UK.

On a side note its interesting the head of the ECB and BOE are both former Goldman Sachs employees.

Another related link suggesting the EU also serves a purpose of isolating Russia economically.

Posted by: Pft | Jul 9 2018 23:27 utc | 56

@Pft 51

EU could not possibly have been a US/CIA idea as it actually works. Yes it is undemocratic, usurps national aspirations, perverts local economies, coddles oligarchs, and all that. But that does not mean it is a US idea.

Zero Hedge is polishing turds now it seems.

Single union political aspirations have been around for centuries and in many countries. Dare I suggest that it is actually based on the Soviet Union of peoples and most likely a Leninist or Trotskyist plot!! :))))

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 9 2018 23:48 utc | 57

Peterau1 @27

having a sense back to convict days shows the british influence. however, the topography of australia meant economic development similar to that of the US. hence, its all about the dollar. that is the cultural oxymoron in australia. your true 'australian' mates are just collateral damage in this whiteman's pissing contest

Posted by: m | Jul 9 2018 23:53 utc | 58

The Marshal Plan
Copy and past from the linked page.
"The Marshall Plan also established the creation of the Organization for European economic cooperation. It did this in a number of ways:

promote co-operation between participating countries and their national production programmes for the reconstruction of Europe,
develop intra-European trade by reducing tariffs and other barriers to the expansion of trade,
study the feasibility of creating a customs union or free trade area,
study multi-lateralisation of payments, and
Achieve conditions for better utilisation of labour.

It was arguably through this persistent interlinking of many European countries economic affairs that to not cooperate would simply be too risky.
This provided the basis for European cooperation and this was favoured by many people because cooperation was seen as a fundamental building block in the establishment of long term European Peace."

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 9 2018 23:57 utc | 59

No way will Boris be PM. It'll go to Jacob Rees Mogg and we'll have yet another PM that wasn't elected!

Posted by: Bevin Kacon | Jul 10 2018 0:43 utc | 60

"In relatively short time, the List of enlightened despots included almost all absolute monarchs in Europe."
Piotr Berman@53
You are right, and that included Catherine the Great for whom Samuel Bentham worked for some years. His brother Jeremy spent some time with him there and was a great admirer of Catherine and Potemkin. He was a key figure in the development of liberal ideology and political economy.
'The Enlightenment'is an historical concept which obscures more than it explains.
To suggest that representative democracy's origins lie in this nebulous thing is completely misleading- the truth is that democracy is as old as community.
If anything 'The Enlightenment' movements are the beginning of the current system whereby the trappings of popular government are hung on the reality of a kleptocrats' oligarchy.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 10 2018 1:25 utc | 61


I love that guy even more now.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 10 2018 1:33 utc | 62

Just in time for Emperor Trump’s arrival in Britain!

I do not understand Great Britain's "democracy," (the very concept of an aristocratic House of Lords Peerage makes my head explode... and what's this about the Monarch having the authority to appoint a Prime Minister if he/she doesn't like the one selected?).

But doesn't the party with the majority get to anoint the Prime Minister? Wouldn't that be Labour right now if Missy May is shown the door?

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 10 2018 1:37 utc | 63

Furthermore, the assertion that the UK will stay in the EU is entirely plausible. I heard, early in the days after the vote, that the govt had not expected it to go the way it did. Plans were made for a show of Brexit but that 'the idea is that everything stays the same', i.e., no change. Sadly for the UK, the EU will not allow that to happen. In all probability, another vote will indeed be called. Otherwise, it's going to be a disaster for an already divided UK for many, many years to come!

The main problem with Brexit is that it is so complex that neither the officials who were set the task of drafting it knew little more than the Ministers themselves! NOBODY knew what the fuck to do! And they still don't!

There is every chance a Vote of No Confidence is going to be called on May's government and she will finally fall, as she soon must as she is the most inept PM there has probably ever been!

Posted by: Bevin Kacon | Jul 10 2018 1:45 utc | 64

@63 Daniel

No, the Tories will still stay in power. A General Election would have to be called and I cannot see May's successor being that brave. Or stupid!

Posted by: Bevin Kacon | Jul 10 2018 1:48 utc | 65

What do the City of London, the Vatican and Washington DC have in common? Actually, Jerusalem shares many of the same traits.

Bonus points for the most creative euphemism for "usurious bank."

Are terms such as "The Five Eyes" and "The AZ Empire" 'trumped' by all this nationalistic furor?

From my perspective, Nation-States have not been the loci of power for some time (if they ever really were). The US, with its awesome military might and (former) industrial capabilities has served as the enforcement arm of that usurious supra-national cabal throughout "the American Century."

But really, does anyone here really believe that a New York City conman or the latest British "mophead" is more powerful than the dynastic power of the Rothschilds, Warburgs or Morgans... or even the nouveau riche like the Rockefellers or Carnegies?

These are dynasties so wealthy and powerful that they don't even appear on Forbes lists of "The Richest" and no one dare mention their names when plotting the next global conflagration.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 10 2018 1:54 utc | 66

Since David Cameron used Jimmy Cliff’s “You Can Get It If You Really Want” for his campaign, Afshin Rattansi’s interview with that truly revolutionary artist is not so off topic. And it’s well worth 12 minutes to enter a worldview we Westerners rarely live.

I and I say “Ja Mon!”

OK. I can't post Jimmy without "The Harder They Come," especially as that seems to be the root of most of the comments here.

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 10 2018 2:20 utc | 67

@33 -- "...and Western Australia were separate British colonies that all began as penal settlement."

Not entirely correct. Western Australia started as a capitalist investment venture (c. 1828) but suffered chronic labor shortages as slavery was closed down (c. 1833). The colony then resorted to convict imports for a time. Much of the myth about 'criminal' can be re-framed as political prisoners such as the Welsh Chartists (see Chartism in Wales).

Posted by: imo | Jul 10 2018 2:28 utc | 68

One can only be confused if one ignores public and secret reasons while Cameron threatened Brexit vote already in 2015 and went through it in 2016.

Officially it was about antiterrorism, security and hence controlling immigration flagship of Tory political campaign that brought them overwhelming electoral win as well as some noises that EU rules and laws stifle economic development and the British lose more in EU payments than they gain.

Obtainimg strong mandate Cameron went to Brussels to supposedly negotiate better deal with EU ESPECIALLY for security while in fact he went there trying to bully the shape future EU integration especially in political realm and even more in realm of banking Union and integration and coordination of banking rules, laws and unified controlling authorities, via threatening Brexit which would be a deadly blow to EU propaganda glue that holds together this melting pot of divided as never before nations and never since medieval times united national elites integrated in EU ruling bureaucracy.

What Cameron was scared of as far as direction of future of EU?

First it was devastating impact of further EU integration on UK banking as London has become legal under U.K. law illegal in EU, money laundering capital of the world and criminal income is huge part of the revenue of the City , US is second.

And second point is future of British monarchy which further integration of EU into superstate would require to be abandoned in UK as elsewhere as states were to loose all even symbolic sovereignty and turn into regions and provinces as in Roman Empire . Needles to say that UK still powerful landed aristocracy want nothing of that sort.

Hence Cameron went to Brussels make special deal for UK and was essentially, with some meaningless cosmetic changes, rebuked into binary decision in EU or out of it no special deal and hence he escalated with caling Brexit vote as a negotiating tool only to increase political pressure to rig elections toward remain if deal reached . In fact as latest scandal revealed results of exit polls were released to stock market betting hedge funds just minutes before polls were closed concluding guess what, that remain campaign won while electoral data in hours showed Brexiters wining simply because to the last moment before closing polls they expected EU to cave in, they did not so they continued pressure by closing openly pro Brexit win.

The pressure continues now while Cameron had to pay political price as he openly advocated staying in EU under phony deal even Tory did not buy, and hence this seeming chaos now fooling people that there is other way but hard Brexit to keep monarchy sovereignty and profits from global money laundering or surrender and humiliation degradation U.K. into EU colony as BJ just said.

Of course which way it goes ordinary Brits will pay but also big crack will widen in EU as national movements will have impact of shattering dreams of quit ascending to EU superstate.

Posted by: Kalen | Jul 10 2018 3:49 utc | 69

At the passage of Brexit I believed the purpose to be to allow the City of London (the bankers) unlimited financial freedom, perhaps especially in their entering into agreements with the Chinese. This could not be the case under the original EU rules. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

The Chinese, as they are intended to be the regional governor of Asia under the evolving global governance are key to the entire tyrannical plan. The AGW hoax, paid for by Western oligarchs, is the public relations for the UN's Agenda 21, currently being enforced at the local level in many parts of the US.

The Chinese oligarchs are so delighted with its tyrannical land-use provisions that they are actually calling their projects "China's Agenda 21". You may search for it. Exc introductory summary.

Corbett Report interview of Rosa Koire

Posted by: Penelope | Jul 10 2018 4:35 utc | 70

@ 62: Thanks for the Pilger article, a good read. There are many today, who would return us all to those days.

Posted by: ben | Jul 10 2018 5:02 utc | 71

The reality of the brexit which the tory government is determined to raiload through has been designed by elites to better oppress the hoi polloi and to sell it to the masses it has been marketed as a means of restoring 'white power'.
Bevin & co can whine on about the injustices of the eu for as long as their theoretical view of the world sustains them, but the brexit which will be delivered is based on 'pragmatic realism' developed by a really nasty gang of avaricious lying c**tfaces and will create a society far more unjust, divided and impoverished than the one that currently exists.
That is really saying something because the current version of the UK is one of the sickest, greed is good and devil take the hindmost societies I have ever experienced - up there with contemporary israel and the US, 1980's South Africa and by the sound of it (didn't experience it firsthand like the other examples, all down to not existing at the time) 1940's Germany.

Jezza was great in the house last night but he didn't call for an immediate general election which would be pretty much SOP for any opposition facing as tattered a government (Seven cabinet 'resignations') as bereft of ideas as the Maybot machine.
The reason he didn't - couldn't in fact, is that the UK left is as divided and dug into their positions as that tory bunch of bastards. Far too many opposition politicians insist that a 'deal' on brexit comes first ahead of sorting out poverty and homelessness, woeful education outcomes (unless you believe wildly juked stats) and the horror show that has been created by three decades of relentless attacks on the health service.
We see it here from the brexiters so convinced of the rightness of their cause they ignore the institutionalised racism that will certainly follow a tory brexit. Or the remoaners who also ignore the unsavory aspects of eu policy to try and render the labour left impotent. Those latter types simply don't give a damn about anything which flows from this debate and division other than killing momentum, they consider even losing the next 5 elections to tories an agreeable sacrifice for ridding the party of Corbyn and co.

Corbyn has recognised the destructive divisiveness of brexit and tries to ignore it because he holds with fixing the mess so many people are in as being much more important than theoretical arguments which will change nothing for the better regardless of impassioned exhortations by ninnies on both sides of the argument.

The thing which really pisses me off about the lefty brexiters, is that they behave as if it is a now or never situation, when it is anything but. There is nothing to prevent a more united Labour Party who have got their mandate by actually delivering a better life for people rather than irrelevant concepts, returning to sorting out the UK's position in the EU at a later date, ideally at a time when the EU's intransigent support for corporate welfare has run bang smack into a leftist UK Labour government's determination to restore public ownership of natural monopolies (rail, water, power, mail delivery etc).
The lefty brexiters claim the lefty remainers won't allow it, while the lefty remainers claim it is the lefty brexiters clogging the works. In fact it is both gangs of selfish egotistical assholes.

Posted by: Herman J Kweeblefezer | Jul 10 2018 5:05 utc | 72

NotBob @ 35.
The EU Constitution never happened. The Lisbon Treaty came along a couple of years later and this time round the Irish people voted against it. It got amended and the Irish people accepted it. The French and Dutch (and every other EU) country chose not to "ask the people" and left the decision to the peoples' chosen represtentatives.
The Irish Constitution has a bit in it making it necessary to ask the people before any changes can be made to that Constitution, so every time the EU adds some bits to the EU Treaty that require the Irish to change their own Constitution there's trouble, as those 3 million or so Irish people have the power to scupper anything and everything for the other 500 million EU citizens. Holding a national referendum to make decisions affecting the entire Union doesn't seem to be either fair or democratic. A single EU-wide referendum could be held when there's a major change to the Treaties.

Posted by: Al-Pol | Jul 10 2018 5:54 utc | 73

Bojo will necver be prime minister. I put my bet on that!

Posted by: Steve | Jul 10 2018 7:17 utc | 74

imo 68

Political correctness is a social disease very similar to syphilis - it fucks with the brain. You really should take precautions if socializing in those circles. Precautionary measures are available at all chemists and most public toilets.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 7:31 utc | 75

Correction to my post @75
Should have read - Political/ideological correctness is....

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 8:24 utc | 76

I click on MoA now and see a pic of Boris the clown hanging from a rope. If the Brits were smart, they would connect that rope to a weather balloon and allow Boris to ascend to the stratosphere and cruise the jet stream.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 8:50 utc | 77

Israel=Saudi Arabia
Jews=Muslim terrorists
European Union=Rothschilds
You=piece of s--t

For making the above happen.

Posted by: Art Best | Jul 10 2018 8:50 utc | 78

The EU is first and foremost a massive attack on democracy. At the same time it attempts to establish technocracy as the mode of government of the future. But right only racists and overly idealistic assholes oppose the EU...

Posted by: paul | Jul 10 2018 8:55 utc | 79

Daniel Good @18

Your post is wrong headed on so many points.

The reason why most British (really English and Welsh [probably down to English settlement]) people want to leave the EU is probably down to the negative press on the EU for over 30 years, the fact that politicians blame the EU for so many things, and the austerity that has been inflicted on ordinary people (with no visible, future way out). The advantage of leaving the EU is that politicians should become more accountable to the electorate (UK politicians have been saying something like 'we would if we could buy....y'know the EU says..' for 30+ years now).

The reason why Scottish and Irish wish to stay in the EU is that they blame the UK for their problems and view staying in the EU as a least a mitigation and (at best) a way of escaping the UK.

Technically you can claim that the UK is not a loser since the institution was formed in 1707, but I would contend that the UK is an institution which signifies the domination of the British Isles by a ruling class that conquered England in 1066. Prior to 1066 the King had to ask Chieftains right down to hamlet level if they would agree and take part in war. After 1066 the new Norman rulers ruled by fear and extreme punishment. Any resistance was met with brutal reprisals. This method of rule is part of what has become known as the 'anglo-saxon' way (which is inaccurate as it is the 'Norman' way). This anglo-saxon way has taken over the US and is how the west seeks to impose its dominion and goes some way to explaining the west's current senseless destructive approach (i.e. dissent will not be tolerated and will be punished to an extent beyond mere defeat). My point being that English, Scottish, Welsh & Irish people are all defeated, subjugated people (losers in your terms). Your assumption that British people are the reflection of its leaders and media (or vice-versa) is simply wrong. (Btw Normans refer to the Vikings who were given a region of France to rule; i.e. it was the (Viking descended) Norman ruling class that invaded England in 1066 not the French people).

The famous Doomsday Book (the starting place for current legal property rights in the UK) is nothing more than the expropriation of all land and property from the anglo-saxon population to the Norman lords and some trusted supporters. Since 1066 any conquered state faces this kind of expropriation and fake 'legalisation' of such expropriation. If any doubt exists as to whether a land has been conquered or helped check out what happens to land and property rights.

The Bayeux Tapestry is obvious propaganda and is concerned with justifying the 1066 conquest. Study the Bayeux tapestry, you can do so on YouTube, and it will become apparent that it is not real history but lies; the justification of the victor. Again, this approach to western wars of conquest (aka humanitarian wars) is repeated in our current media all the time.

With regard to the hatred of Russia, most readers of MoA will be aware of the opposition provided by Craig Murray, but perhaps less will be aware of the quite amazing comments by readers in the Daily Mail which expressed considerable scepticism about the Salisbury poisoning and Douma incident and opposition to any military response particularly one that might target Russia (although, once the attacks were launched the comments became supportive of 'our boys'; this is understandable and indicates [to me] that war would be very hard [impossible?] to stop should it ever start). This is all the more amazing when you consider that most of the Daily Mail readers posting such comments would (most-likely) not have read (or even been aware of) Craig Murray's blog.

You imagine that the EU is free but really it is under the control of the (US) west and (US) neo-liberal economic policy. The EU is already a US armed camp (as is the UK). The idea that there would be a military conflict between the US and EU is laughable. First, Europe would need to obtain independence of the US and it can't do that while the EU remains in existence. Alternatively the EU could 'change', but history indicates that oppressive structures don't change [they may appear to do so, or make temporary adaptations, but they don't fundamentally change]; they either collapse or are destroyed, if not, they endure.

Leave voters voted to leave the EU because they despair over austerity and see no possible change within the EU. They are not 'puffed up' jingoists, seeking war with Russia, or regard every country on the continent with contempt. As far as I can see remainers see no need to make any real change in the policy of austerity and seem to be the ones who are most up for conflict with Russia.

Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 9:02 utc | 80

Posted by: paul | Jul 10, 2018 4:55:55 AM | 79

"Democracy" only being possible locally?

Numbers I posted on another thread:

Members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation - population of 3 Billion+

EU Members - population of 500 million.

United States - population of 326 million

GDP of United States - 18.57 trillion USD

GDP of European Union - 17.1 trillion USD

GDP China, India, Russia combined (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) -
- close to 15 trillion

You think EU countries have got a competitive chance if on their own?
Or - democracy in Switzerland enables them to decide on their relations with the outside world? Like not being part of the "single market" - they are -including free movement of people - yes you can live and work in Switzerland if you are a EU citizen.

But right only racists and overly idealistic assholes oppose the EU

Maybe because it is a stupid idea?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2018 9:24 utc | 81

Brexit is nether the problem or the solution, it was just another distraction to keep the mass occupied, whilst they assist stripped the uk and a large part of the world! The people we are scared to mention are the true people killing and oppressing us. I thank Daniel@66 for naming them ! Rothchild family ect ect I would add the Rothermere family and Murdoch ! Politics are debated, but history is made on the streets. We need to regain our sense of moral outrage (where did that go ?) there are 70 million displaced people in the world ! It could be. You or I next !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 10 2018 9:32 utc | 82

Peter AU 1 @75

I don't read imo@68 as politically/ideologically correct but as a statement of fact. As far as I can see, imo didn't deserve your response.

Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 9:33 utc | 83

Well that's tough shit isn't it.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 9:37 utc | 84

The site was nice, I found out about a lot of Awesome content. I like the way you make your blog posts. Keep up the good work and may you gain success in the long term.

Posted by: ریخته گری آلومینیوم | Jul 10 2018 9:43 utc | 85

Peter AU 1 @83

Ignoring imo's 'feelings' what is wrong/objectionable about his posting @68?

Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 9:46 utc | 86

Peter AU 1 @ 83: I agree with ADKC and IMO. There were convicts transported to the Australian colonies whose crimes can be considered political crimes. The Tolpuddle Martyrs who came to the Sydney colony in the 1830s are one example: they were transported for the crime of demanding an extension of voting rights to all men, among other demands. Such convicts were a small minority though.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 10 2018 9:56 utc | 87

Oops - regarding my comment @ 85, the Tolpuddle Martyrs were transported to Sydney for the crime of forming a trade union and swearing secret oaths of loyalty! Apologies for my oversight.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 10 2018 10:00 utc | 88

Jen, everything I have read, WA began as a penal colony. Political prisoners also go into a penal colony. Nowhere in the comments on this is there a link - any link, let alone one that would prove otherwise.
Should I just believe user names that I do not recall seeing here before?

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 10:15 utc | 89


Boris Johnson is no clown. You should look beyond the (carefully crafted) popular image and see the dangerous fascist lurking in plain sight.

Posted by: Alan | Jul 10 2018 10:37 utc | 90

Posted by: Pft | Jul 9, 2018 7:27:36 PM | 56

As for Germany. Immigration in the EU was all about divide and rule and leaving fewer Euros for social programs.

"The demonization of Muslim immigration to the EU ...." - fixed it for you.

The stuff about leaving fewer euros for social programmes is propaganda. Social programmes are designed to force people to work - they are pegged below the minimum wage.

In the case of Germany costs for refugees were accounted to the 0.7 percent of GDP Germany is supposed to spend for development aid by the UN, thereby effectively developing Germany instead.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2018 10:41 utc | 91

Alan @ 88
I am in total agreement with you on your comment regarding Broris Johnson ! His childish baffonery, is a commen symtem / tactic of a psyopath . It hides a callous disregard for human life , wins gulable friends which the psychopath manipulates to exploite there power and influence! They are very good at scheming there own self interested plan. But (and here's the crunch ) are totally useless at for seeing the consequences of there actions . And no regard for the victim of there actions!!! Do we want that in charge of the nucular button ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 10 2018 11:23 utc | 92

Peter Au 1 @87

Political prisoners sent to Australia.

But such prisoners where still the minority.

imo @68 appears to be correct.

Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 11:36 utc | 93

Google ---Boris Johnson grenfail tower

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 10 2018 11:49 utc | 94

@91 "Western Australia started as a capitalist investment venture'

Ok Ok I'll capitulate The political prisoners were sent to a holiday resort in the antipodes and from this resort WA began as a capitalist venture.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 11:53 utc | 95

Peter @91


Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 11:57 utc | 96

Peter AU1 @93




Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 11:58 utc | 97

From wiki.... yeah I know, I know.
"In the early 19th century the British became concerned about the possibility of a French colony being established on the west coast of Australia. In 1826 the Governor of New South Wales, Ralph Darling, ordered the establishment of a settlement at King George's Sound. An army detachment was sent from Sydney headed by Major Edmund Lockyer with eighteen soldiers, one captain, one doctor, one storekeeper and twenty-three convicts.[1]"
So those old stone buildings where I grew up, the old stone church my mum used to drag me along to, all that stone was cut by these capitalist venture political types as a retreat resort from the world of politics? mmm And all that time time I thought they had been built by convicts... :)

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 10 2018 12:06 utc | 98

Somebody @65

There is nothing wrong/inconsistent with the idea of an interconnected world of sovereign (independent) states. The idea that a treaty or a trade agreement means that a state is no-longer independent is ridiculous. As ridiculous as believing that an individual who purchases a pack of polo mints is no longer free because of the need of a local shop and a manufacturer.

You are basically pushing the idea that there should be no nation states, no borders and all trade free and therefore no need for treaties. From this comes no regulation, a poisoned environment, uncontrolled and rapacious capitalism, no rights for people, no benefits, no protection, just work til' you die and polished off sharpish if you are no longer productive.

I don't object to an EU as a grouping of independent states acting collectively. I do object to an EU that erodes and undermines the nation state, that seeks to remove state leaders and interfere in state elections/policies. The EU that we have is the latter and there is no practical way to reform it to the former.

Posted by: ADKC | Jul 10 2018 12:19 utc | 99

@ B. You have too high an opinion of the competence of the main political figures in the UK Governing Party.
Boris Johnson has never been a serious contender for PM. He's good at giving a rousing speech to the Party faithful but that's it. The blue rinses enjoy the titillation of his infidelities but they don't want someone so amoral coming anywhere near their daughters, or representing their principles.
You knew Theresa May had no judgement the first day of her premiership, when she made BoJo her Foreign Secretary. A selection that could kindly be described as risible. He indicated no suitability for the role before his appointment nor has since. Quite the opposite.
It was at that decision you knew all was hopeless. Brexit was going to be hopeless. Everything she was going to be involved in was hopeless.

And so it has proved.

The vox pop that I encounter ..... the Remainers are reconciled to Brexit and just want to get on with it. The Brexiteers are sick to death with hearing about it but not seeing anything done.
Everyone had made their minds up before the election in 2015. The Referendum campaign was a few weeks of premium entertainment watching the most reviled political figures in the land trying to tear each others’ throats out.

Every brexiteer I've asked why they voted for out, begins by saying "For once they had to listen to us" and that's usually followed by "there's too many people here" or "it's the E.Europeans". (My response to the europhiles is that you knew the EU was finished a dozen years ago, when all the Big Issue sellers turned into Romanian women.) UK cities are thick with destitute E.Europeans.
There's a huge disconnect between Parliament (+ media) and the people. A further example of this is the official narrative on the Salisbury poisonings. Ask people in the street and they say "yeah, it was Vlad with the doorknob" and then they crease up laughing. The Govt has no credibility with its "only plausible explanation".

My prediction, since the day BoJo was appointed minister for the exterior, is that the situation is so catastrophic the EU will have to lead us by the hand through the process of brexit.
The EU’s priority will be the stability of the Euro. They won’t want us beggared on their doorstep and as they export 15% of their stuff to us they’ll want to keep on doing that. We’ll have to have what we’re given and be grateful.

The political situation in the UK is so far beyond surreal that a man dragging a piano with a dead horse on it would appear mundane.

Posted by: Stubbs | Jul 10 2018 12:22 utc | 100

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