Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 07, 2018

U.S.-Saudi Pressure On Jordan Opens The Way For Iran

The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan has traditionally been in the 'western' camp. It is politically attached to the United Kingdom and the United States as well as to Saudi Arabia and other Sunni majority Gulf states. The Jordanian King Abdullah II has in the past been hostile to Iran. He was to first to publicly stoke fear of a 'Shia crescent'.  But the new Saudi and U.S. plans for 'peace' with Israel are a threat to Jordan and to King Abdullah's personal legitimacy. He needs to change his position. Provided with the right incentives Jordan could, eventually, join the 'resistance' side with Iran, Syria and Hizbullah.

The country ruled by King Abdullah has nearly ten million inhabitants but is relatively poor. It has few natural resources. The generally well educated population attracted some foreign investment in its industry. Many Jordanians work abroad and send remittances. But all that is not enough. The country needs foreign subsidies to keep its standard of living.

The King of Saudi Arabia derives legitimacy from his title as "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques" in Mecca and Medina. The King of Jordan springs from the thousand year old great Hashemite dynasty. He heads the Jerusalem Islamic Waqf (Foundation) and is the custodian of the Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem, the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock. This responsibility is the only prominent function left for the Hashemite family. It is the source of King Abdullah's legitimacy.

The changes in Saudi Arabia's policy towards Israel and the Zionist 'peace plan' the Trump administration develops create a new situation for Jordan. It is put under immense economic pressure to agree to these plans.

Jordan took part in the war on Syria. While Turkey provided support for the "rebels" attacking Syria from the north Jordan played a similar role in the south. Weapon and ammunition supplies from Saudi Arabia and Qatar were shipped through Jordan and smuggled into Syria. The country welcomed the families of the 'rebels' as refugees and provided medical support. The "southern operation room" of the 'rebels', run by the CIA, was hosted in Jordan's capital Amman.

The war interrupted the important and lucrative transportation line from Turkey through Syria and Jordan to the Gulf countries. The refugees were a burden. The once flourishing tourist business fell back. Like most other countries Jordan had expected a short war leading to 'regime change' in Syria within a few months. But now, seven years later, the war on Syria is a major problem for Jordan. The one million refugees from Syria led to an increase in rents while wages went down. About 20% of the working population is without a job. The war needs to end.

Jordan receives some $1.2 billion per year in military and economic aid from the United States. In earlier years it additionally received $1 to 2 billions from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States. That still was not enough to compensate for the burden of the war. Since 2011 Jordan's public debt increased from 70% to 95% of its GDP. Its budget deficit this year will likely top $1 billion.

This year Saudi Arabia held back. It gave no money for Jordan. With Trump ruling in Washington the U.S. payments are in doubt. Jordan took out a $723 million IMF loan but it came with strings attached. The IMF demands austerity from the Jordan state. Since the beginning of this year taxes on basic food staples increased by 50 to 100 percent. There were five increases of fuel prices. Electricity and water prices were also hiked. All that was not enough. Since last year the Prime Minister of Jordan worked on a new income tax law which would double the number of people who have to pay income tax. It would also introduce harsh measures against tax evaders.

Since May 30 Jordan has seen daily protests, seemingly over rising costs of living and the new income tax law. The protests were led by 33 trade unions who called for a general strike. The call for a strike was followed by many and the protests attracted quite large crowds. They demanded the resignation of the Prime Minister and an end of the income tax plans. Such protests are not especially extraordinary. The usual solution for such a situation is known.

After a few days of protests King Abdullah fired Prime Minister Hani Mulki who had insisted on the tax law. Usually that would have been enough. The people would go home, the law in question would be tweaked or abolished and the government would muddle through.

But not this time. The demonstrations continue. They now include chants against the monarchy. This is unusual. Very unusual.

The economic situation and the income tax law may not be the only explanation for this civil strife. There are rumors that the Saudis, or the CIA, are behind them.

On May 18 the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) held an extraordinary summit in Turkey to protest against Israel's atrocities in Palestine and Trump's plans for Jerusalem. Many heads of states took part including the President of Iran and the Emir of Qatar. Saudi Arabia and its Emirate ally sent only lower level delegations. The Jordan King had been asked (machine transl.) not to attend the summit. He went anyway:

King Abdullah of Jordan told the Istanbul summit that he rejected any attempt to change the status quo of Jerusalem and its holy sites.

That comment went against the U.S. decision to move its embassy to Jerusalem. It went against the Saudi-U.S. 'peace plan' which will hand Jerusalem to the Zionists. But even more important from a Saudi point of view was this picture.


King Abdullah not only shook hands with Iran's President Rohani but the two also held the first top level talks between Jordan and Iran in 15 years:

The Iranian and Jordanian heads of state have reportedly held a brief meeting on the sidelines of an special summit of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) in Turkey.
King Abdullah II is a pro-Western monarch but Amman’s ties with the US and Saudi Arabia have recently been shaken over the issue of Palestine.

Riyadh’s reported coziness to Israel has worried Jordan which is in charge of the major Muslim shrine complex on the Temple Mount, the al-Aqsa Mosque.

The Trump administration and the Saudi Clown Prince Muhammad bin Salman want Jordan to agree to their 'peace plan' with Israel. The Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem would come under Israeli control and would be endangered. Jewish fanatics plan to build a 'third Jewish temple' over the Al-Aqsa mosque. (There is no proof that a first or second temple was ever there.)  Any such agreement thus threatens the legitimacy of the Hashemite King.

The lack of financial support from Saudi Arabia and the unusual demonstrations in Jordan are supposed to put pressure on King Abdullah. The Saudis and the U.S. want him to submit under the dirty deal they made with the Zionists. If Abdullah does not go along with the Saudi/U.S. plans he will have to leave. If he goes along he will lose his legitimacy.

There is one alternative. King Abdullah could change sides. He can ask Iran (or Qatar? Or maybe even Russia?) for financial support. A few billions will do. They could come in the form of industrial investments. In exchange for such economic support he would have to commit to the 'resistance' side. He would have to stop his support for the war on Syria. He would have to lower his relations with Saudi Arabia and take a stronger position against Israel.

But Saudi Arabia is still a neighbor of Jordan and rich. Many Jordanians work there. The U.S. protects Jordan from Israel. It is thus unlikely that Abdullah would openly take such a big step towards Iran. But there are probably ways and means to slowly move into a more neutral position.

Wherever the U.S. and Saudi Arabia have started conflicts and wars - in Iraq, Lebanon, Qatar, Yemen and Syria - Iran has won. The Saudi pressure on Jordan might have a similar effect.

Posted by b on June 7, 2018 at 18:15 UTC | Permalink


Oh, this is simply brilliant! What more could one ask for (as a beginning, anyway)?

Already the USA has powerfully antagonized Iraq, Iran, and Syria. Turkey and Egypt are none too happy with Washington, and even Saudi Arabia's unconditional loyalty no longer seems quite so unconditionally unconditional.

And now Jordan! Bit by bit, Israel is surrounding itself with determined, disillusioned enemies.

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Jun 7 2018 18:34 utc | 1

As usual, the effing Zionist scum are the root cause of this mess -- 70 years of horrible misery, including millions of deaths, just to keep 7 or 8 million Jews in a neighbourhood where they are completely unwelcome.

Posted by: chet380 | Jun 7 2018 18:38 utc | 2

I don't think Jordan can really abandon their stance, and change sides. There are no Shi'a in Jordan, but a lot of Salafis. It would have to be a very temporary arrangement with Iran. On the other hand they're faced day-to-day with Israeli domination. The best solution would be to use the threat of joining Iran to threaten the Israelis, and the US, in order to bring back the subsidies. That's what King Hussein would have done. He was very bright; Abdullah though is an idiot, and probably couldn't pull it off. The Angry Arab always goes on about Abdullah, about how he can't speak Arabic properly (English mother), and how he prefers riding his motorbike on the PCH, rather than actually working.

They now include chants against the monarchy. This is unusual. Very unusual.
No, not so. You don't remember the time when the people of Tafileh barracked Abdullah, when he processed through the town. There's very considerable contempt for the King.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 7 2018 18:53 utc | 3

Iran hasn't won, EU companies started leaving the country and stopped buying oil from it.

The strategy is called containment and it worked well with the USSR and the previous iranian gov. They may open up to China, but this comes with strings attached and will destroy the domestic industry which is not competitive to cheap chinese goods.

"European banks, insurers and shippers are gradually severing ties with Iran under pressure from the U.S. restrictions"

"For all of Europe's bluster, and increasingly vocal "resistance" to Trump unique approach to international politics, especially when it comes to Iran when Brussels swore it would defy the US president and continue business as usual with Tehran, it took Europe about a month to fold, and as Reuters reports European refiners are now unofficially winding down oil purchases from Iran, closing the door on a fifth of the OPEC member’s crude exports. "

Posted by: T | Jun 7 2018 18:56 utc | 4

Not sure what their endgame with Jordan is. On the one hand, instability in Jordan would give Israel the opportunity for mass ethnic cleansing of their Palestinian Helots into Jordan. On the other, if there is loss of central authority, there would be hundreds of thousand of fighters firing rockets into Israel all day every day, and I'm not sure an invasion will fix it.

Posted by: lysander | Jun 7 2018 18:56 utc | 5

Thanks B, for information on matters I widely ignored. It's an interesting development. But it could spark another war, destroy another country.

Posted by: Pnyx | Jun 7 2018 18:58 utc | 6

thanks b... sounds like jordan is in a tough postion, but king abdullah is not one to flinch in the environment...kudos to him... the outcome here and the way this plays out will be interesting.. i wonder when isis events start happening in jordan? i think it is only a matter of time... they never happen in ksa or israel, as ksa and israel are typically behind isis...

Posted by: james | Jun 7 2018 18:58 utc | 7

from rt - you know things are bad when imf get their hooks in..

"The International Monetary Fund will work with Jordan’s new government to complete a review of the debt-burdened country’s IMF loan program to release another $70 million to Jordan, an IMF spokesman said on Thursday. According to Gerry Rice, the IMF welcomed a call from Jordan’s King Abdullah for a “national dialogue” over tax legislation that has sparked the protests that have brought down the government. He did not comment on a report that Jordan was seeking to slow down fiscal reforms that are a key part of fiscal consolidation plans pushed by the IMF to reduce Jordan’s large public debt, Reuters said. Rice also called on the international donor community to take a stronger role in supporting Jordan, which has taken over 1 million Syrian refugees."

Posted by: james | Jun 7 2018 19:03 utc | 8

The people of Jordan may as well realize that sooner or later the Zionist guns will be aimed at them. To think otherwise is folly. The monarchy, like all monarchies in the Middle East must vanish. The IMF will do to Jordan what it has done to Greece and other states. Own their assets and nation altogether. Yemnen, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Libya,...wake up Jordan!

Posted by: charles | Jun 7 2018 19:17 utc | 9

I've always seen Jordan as key to any solution in Palestine and once advocated for merging the two entities into one large Palestine. With its large number of Palestinian refugees and idiocy of getting an IMF SAP loan, the usual SAP riots were sure to start and will likely continue as the only way of getting rid of it is to deem it illegitimate by proving governmental corruption in league with IMF officials as is always the case.

So, how does King PlayStation keep his throne? Well, first off, who are the real enemies/threats to Jordan? Israel, Saudi, IMF, Outlaw US Empire, and their assorted terrorists. Second, who can Jordan count on as a friend? Here the pickings are rather slim as the king's choices have painted him into a seemingly friendless corner, although it would seem he'd be better served by aligning with The Resistance while politely asking to become part of BRI. The latter choice would probably be supported by most of the populace--citizen and refugee. The problem with adopting such a policy is the presence within of the Outlaw US Empire and its terrorists. I expect something to happen within Jordan in response to Syria's Daraa offensive slated to begin in a week after Ramadan's conclusion; just what remains unpredictable, however.

IMO, for peace to finally be established in Southwest Asia, three entities need to be removed from the region once and for all: The Outlaw US Empire and its NATO vassals; the Zionist Abomination; Saudi Arabia. All three promote extremism and terrorism and racism of the worst sort and should cease being members of the human community until becoming radically reformed and defanged.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 7 2018 19:26 utc | 10

"The king of Jordan is a Zionist of the first order"
Ikl #9

Seriously, Abdullah made his bed, let him lay in it. He is a traitor of the highest magnitude. His country is mostly majority Palestinians. From what I know they cant stand Abdullah, the American/Israeli lap dog. All these leaders who constantly backstab the will and the rights of their people, will all meet the same fate. Humiliation in this life or humiliation in the next.

Posted by: Ahmed | Jun 7 2018 19:35 utc | 11

Man Ill never forget when I heard that ISIS had made a deep incursion into Jordan to attack a Palestinian refugee camp. I remember thinking, that's so specific; why go into Jordan for some poor Palestinians? Thats when it first hit me, wait, ISIS isnt attacking Israel ever...

PS except for that one time on accident that they apologized for lol

Posted by: WithAllWindsAhead | Jun 7 2018 19:50 utc | 12

Thanks b!

...and then there's Oded Yinon's plan which includes (almost) the entire territory of Jordan into Eretz Israhell.

(Does this mean Bibi has aggreed to a concolation prize? /s)

Jordan was always gonna go down, once it served out its shameful role of a Muslim guardian of Zionist interests. What better time then, also having in mind that Abdullah is the last formal obstacle of the satanic cabal hellbent on fulfilling Biblical prophecy?

Posted by: LXV | Jun 7 2018 20:38 utc | 13

President Xi has already commented that Syria would fit well in the "One Belt One Road" initiative. China is already planning future reconstruction investments in Syria to aid the Assad regime after the war. We in the USA have already successfully driven Iran into China's orbit and I anticipate China will now buy out various European interest in Iran and reap the profits. I presume Iran is or will join the "One Belt One Road" economic development plan. So could China now make an investment in Jordan? perhaps with Russia? Would not Jordan fit well in this Asian economic partnership? This is only a thought on my part.

Posted by: walter | Jun 7 2018 20:42 utc | 14

Jordan moving toward Iran would be suicidal for them. They must be content to continue as US/Israeli puppets. Their future is not much brighter than their Palestiniam neighbors, and many Jordanians are displaced Palestinians forced out 70 years ago. It does sound like a possible color revolution may be in the works to bring them one step closer to the brink, or perhaps just a threat to get them to capitulate further and provide more support for the current and future conflicts in the region.

Posted by: Pft | Jun 7 2018 21:08 utc | 15

thanks b.

Posted by: annie | Jun 7 2018 21:30 utc | 16

The Trump "Israel" peace plan is to transform Jordan into New Palestine. All Palestinan refugees will be allow to move there and the King will cede place to a Palestinian majority government.
This has always been Israel's position. Jordan IS Palestine.

King Abdullah is now paying the price for helping the USA, Israel and the Saudis to topple Bashar al Assad and transform Syria into the New Palestine. The plan failed and Syria with Iran and Russia's help was able to stay on and keep Syria to Syrians. Who will support the Jordanian King when his own allies and protectors want his country to become the New Palestine.If the plots thickens,Jordan could only survive its 'regine change' if it moves rapidly toward Russia.
Will we see Jordan moving away from its double face 'allies' and turning to Russia and Iran for support?
Therefore we may soon see a rapprochement between the King and Bashar al Assad, another rapprochement with Russia and a very discreet rapprochement with Iran.

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 7 2018 21:34 utc | 17

King Abdullah of Jordan: Balancing on an ever-tighter tightrope

Posted by: Virgile | Jun 7 2018 21:42 utc | 18

The ultimate double face ally of all is Russia, so there is no coherent axis of resistance. If there were such an axis, it could attract countries sick of the Hegemon's brutal rule. But because Putin's Russia is committed to backstabbing the weak and kneeling to the strong, there is no coherent axis of resistance at all. Russia would have to be the center of gravity for such an axis because only Russia can provide the air cover and air defense that can keep the Hegemon from swallowing up any country that resists it.

Posted by: paul | Jun 7 2018 21:55 utc | 19

Has the Clown Prince been seen in public since April 12? Twitter photos don’t count

Posted by: Anunnaki | Jun 7 2018 21:56 utc | 20

Jordan should look to China, that would be the small step out of dependency on the Axis of Evil, America/Isreal/Saudi Arabia. China does not play a military role in the regon so this move would be hard for anyone to object to.

Posted by: jz | Jun 7 2018 22:07 utc | 21

Since 70% of Jordanians are of Palestinian descent, any caving of the current monarchy re: control of Islam’s holy si in Jerusalem has to infuriate the masses. Undoubtedly Abdullah realizes this. Why else he have voiced opposition to movlng the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Y


Posted by: Jacob | Jun 7 2018 22:21 utc | 22

GDoggon mobile! Don”t know what I did wrong to conclude with Y bites. Combination,
I guess, of tiny keyboard & hand tremor.

Posted by: Jacob | Jun 7 2018 22:40 utc | 23

@20 Looks like MBS has gone awol..

Posted by: Lozion | Jun 7 2018 23:33 utc | 24

(Cont. from 22)

So looks like Abdullah finds himself between a rock & a hard place, capitulate to empire/saidi demands or risk a rebellion. What to do? Switching sides by joining the Resistance is one option, but more likely the West
will prbermit Abdullah to continue voicing opposition to recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, so long as he ot “Behaves”.

Posted by: Jacob | Jun 7 2018 23:50 utc | 25

I don't envy King Abdullah II's position at all: if he does what he knows he should do, and oppose handing over control of Al Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock mosque to Israel, he faces overthrow by US and Saudi-supported Color Revolution protesters (aided by foreign snipers) and fighting on two fronts (Israel to the west and Saudi Arabia to the southeast). Although the KSA would be foolish to try to fight countries to its north and northwest at the same time as it's fighting Yemen and bankrupting itself.

At the same time Abdullah II faces criticism from East Bank Bedouin "tribal" leaders that his wife Queen Rania and her relatives (all Palestinians / West Bank people by the way) are enriching themselves.

If he wants to stay in power, he needs to clean his own house first. If regime change does come to Jordan, the king cannot count on Jordanians to support him in the way Syrians have supported Bashar al Assad unless he demonstrates that he is worthy of their support.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 8 2018 0:11 utc | 26

It should not be forgotten that the Hashemites were the rulers of the Holy Places of Medina and Mecca before the Saud/wahab alliance pushed them out.
It was a typical piece of British double dealing: the Arab revolt in which Lawrence became famous began as an alliance with the Hashemites, indeed the founder of the dynasty in (Trans)Jordan Abdullah was originally to have been given Iraq, when the French insisted on having Syria and Faisal was moved down to Iraq.
Jordan was always under attack by saudi forces which led to Britain establishing a base there, an RAF airfield and training the Arab Legion, commanded by Glubb Pasha, whose son (I forget his name-Brian??) was a dedicated and eloquent critic of Israeli aggression in the sixties.
In a word-Jordan would be reverting to its original positions if it were to go into opposition to the saudis. As to Israel, it is certainly true that the current king and his father have been cowed by Zionist power and the power of Zionism's allies. But it is not true that this has always been the case, before Black September (1970-71) Jordan was a supporter of Palestinian liberation, and hosted Arafat's PLO. In 1948 the Arab Legion was the only Arab army that gave a good account of itself. And Jordan as b, indicates, has been a major loser not only in the Occupation, it ruled East Jerusalem, but in the daily (now becoming hourly) humiliations perpetrated by the racist occupiers.
From a strategic point of view it certainly makes sense for Jordan, with Iraq, Syria and Lebanon behind it, to substitute self defence for clientage. By doing so it would automatically re-open the question if the Saud clan's legitimacy, much to the relief I suspect of the inhabitants of the Hejaz, Medina, Jedda and Mecca in particular, who have only fond memories of the light hand with which the Hashemites ruled them.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2018 0:52 utc | 27

#27 Bevin Jordan had "entered into a tacit alliance with Israel not to join in any pan-Arab military operations against the Jewish state, and to quietly recognize its existence. In return, Abdullah would be permitted to annex most of the areas allocated to the Arabs under the partition resolution, the lands on the West Bank of the river Jordan. This unwritten agreement, reached in January 1948, resulted in the neutralisation of the Arab world’s most effective fighting force, the British-backed Arab Legion, based in Transjordan and commanded by the British officer, Sir John Bagot Glubb."

Read Ilan Pappe for more on this. If Jordan had taken up the cause of defending Palestine with the rest of the Arab League the birth of Israel may have never occurred.

Posted by: Tom | Jun 8 2018 1:32 utc | 28

I dunno where people got this weird idea that Jordan is somehow desperate from Palestine. Englanders eager to appease zionists and keep the 'jew problem' outa england after ww2 drew a line on a map splitting Palestine into 'soon to be Israel' and 'Trans-Jordan' wtf that mean tho I dunno.

I am pretty certain it didn't mean that East Palestinian blokes were queuing to get their dicks chopped off.
But that is essentially what happened, I dunno where you will find an accurate history of it all now, maybe a public library since as yet the truth massagers haven't developed a method for altering analog stored data.
Yep, there were some differences between eastern and western Palestinians in terms of their beliefs but that was true all over the ME where a huge spectrum of different versions of islam and other philosophies have always co-existed - something which the amerikans didn't comprehend before they began the slaughter of the people of Iraq.
The greedy and opportunistic Hashemite 'royalty' - that's a big laugh - there is nothing in the least regal about that family's merciless exploitation of whatever population the contemporaneous imperial overlord demanded be oppressed from ottoman to englander, who the hashemites killed hundreds of thousands maybe millions on behalf of (James at least try to learn something about the issues you endlessly opinionate over), were brought in to trans-jordan to run the joint by the englanders because they understood that dividing Palestinians up is the best way of keeping 'em down - see Saudi Arabia where the vicious and mercenary al-Sauds were enabled by slicing off most of the Shia population and calling that chunk Yemen when that didn't work as well as expected the englanders made another cut creating North and South Yemen. With Yemen the move was about ensuring that Shia tribes under whose land the oil was, remained a minority and powerless. With the split of Palestine the deal was pretty much the same plan but there wasn't too much money to be made but 'something had to be done to stop a flood of psychotically damaged jews from pouring into amerika and england (we tend to forget and I'm not excusing their behaviour in the slightest but merely drawing attention to a reality - that most of the humans who survived the camps were truly fucked up what do they call it in touchy-feely? post traumatic stress disorder? -and raised as they were by lunatic psychos, so are many of their kids, and their kids etc etc)

So the call was made to hack off the parts that are least economic and lacking in resources (cos the zionists don't want those yet they do want the coastal areas with their agriculture and exploitable resource base) leaving behind a population that is smaller and less able to resist their new masters in 'soon to be israel'.

Any forward thinking population would simply behead abdullah, he is just another low dog in a long lineage of low dogs. If he tries to protect al-Aqsa that has nothing to do with the humans beings who revere it and use it and everything to do with the need to keep hashemite scum in the manner to which they have become accustomed.
But my guess is that abdullah's recent pantomime was really all about ambit.
He stages a hissy fit that isn't really reported outside orientalist media, to let his masters in usuki know he still has a coupla cards in the game, whereupon he is taken aside and thanked for his loyal service, but "times being what they are" it no longer makes economic sense to underwrite the cost of feeding clothing & housing millions of people since recent circumstances have made him 'surplus to needs' "however here is a nice fat cheque - a one off mind you, so don't spend it all at once, and we have found an ideal spot for you and yer family 'oh great king', so grab the the kiddies 'n wives 'n hop aboard. You're leaving Jordan".

Making an unrepayable IMF loan first, is a nice if totally sick (in the old sense of the word) way of guaranteeing reasons for sending in the butchers.
Creating chaos getting rid of the hashemites and reducing Jordan to chaos so their short term royal family's ability to save al Aqsa is rendered moot is the next logical move. It will take forever (well quite a while) for the diverse clans who were once all Palestinians to overcome the carefully engineered by usuki and king hussein & abdullah betrayals so they won't be a problem for the next phase in the zionisation of the Jordan Valley.
Believe me I want to be wrong about this but the ultimate end for trans-jordan has been obvious since at least the end of the '68 war and the removal of 'trans' from the nation's name, which implied transitory, temporary before the establishment of Palestine. - probably long before but that was back when I was either not there or a kid & not paying attention, so natch I just don't remember -same same for all of us the people who were around are all dead or 90 not out and treated like they are senile - as a lot of us will soon be.

But I meant what I said about learning this sort of history from books at yer local library, it will be too late for some as for too long now many libraries have been tossing books, not because they are worn or marked, just because they are 'old'. So great books end up in garbage dumps to make room for 'new' versions of the world...
The hashemites won't be killed by usuki or their 'contractors, well not immediately cos the englanders will argue that you just never know when a willing sleazebag with a well-worn patina of respectability can come in handy for use at some other hotspot in the old colonies.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 8 2018 2:36 utc | 29

ahh kill spell check now - I tried to correct my spelling of separate where I always mix a & e in that word and ended up with desperate. The 1st line should read "I dunno where people got this weird idea that Jordan is somehow separate from Palestine." entire basis disappears even for the few who bother to read it.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 8 2018 2:44 utc | 30

@ Debsisdead with the succinct history of the "Trans-Jordan" area

Thanks for that and your separate/desperate spelling thing was not a comprehension issue for me.

I really appreciate your comments of late about the ME history which I have only heard/read the Yank version of and forgotten most. The past and ongoing socio-cultural damage that has been wrought by the vampires of of empire is overwhelming.......I want to take away their tools they use to enslave us all and make them public.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 8 2018 3:13 utc | 31

"He needs to change his position."

Nonsense. Abdullah II (& his father) are/were western vassals. They have no
other position. If Abdullah II even considered changing position, the USA
would 'change' his position for him.

"Provided with the right incentives Jordan could, eventually, join the 'resistance' side with Iran, Syria and Hizbullah."

More nonsense. In fact so nonsensical there's suspicion the
above article is zionist propaganda aimed at creating FUD around Jordan.
One Israeli scenario is to oust the Hashemites and give Jordan to the Palestinians. Perhaps this plan is already rolling.

Posted by: xbot | Jun 8 2018 3:37 utc | 32

B. "There is no proof that a first or second temple was ever there".
Please don't be ridiculous. There is ample evidence about the second temple. There is nothing extraordinary in a Hellenistic king like Herod building a Hellenistic acropolis in his capital city. What we lack is just the knowledge of the exact whereabouts of the Holy of the Holiest (a piece of information which is relevant to religious Jews only, since they are forbidden from entering it). Yet when the temple was razed to the ground, a pagan temple was built above it, which was in its turn razed to build a Christian Basilica, which stood until Muslims built the current shrines. Plus, Christians built a church again over there during the Crusaders' rule. However, no proper archeological diggings were ever allowed there: all religions involved fear the results it might lead to.
For instance, that the "first" temple was nothing more than a royal chapel, a room in the king's palace (the king himself performed the cult, not priests, back then), and that the description in the Bible is nothing more than a fantasy to embellish the past. But being a room in the king's palace is a different thing that not having ever existed... Also San Marco in Venice or the Palatine chapel in Palermo were "just" "rooms" in the ruler's palace...
You do not need to recur to negationism in order to strip away fanaticism from those few square meters for which religious fanatics already died in the thousands.

Posted by: Giovanni Dall'Orto | Jun 8 2018 4:43 utc | 33

b notes:
" (There is no proof that a first or second temple was ever there.) "

For those interested, not only is there little to no archaeological evidence for the claimed location of any Temple, but even some Bible believers find another excavated site to match Scripture.

The Temple Mount is not where The world thinks it is:

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 8 2018 4:45 utc | 34

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 7, 2018 11:13:34 PM | 31
Thanks for that I do sometimes need to hear that people read my ravings cos it often feels like for some people this board is more about getting the latest news of the outrage du jour up first. So little reflection on the saga that is the ME or any part of the world for that matter - eg we know that what happens throughout africa is as bad if not worse, yet our inability to process so much horror combines with the empire's determination to keep us all as placid as possible & ensures africans from Capetown to Tripoli suffer mostly un-noticed.

Talk talk talk knowing that unless they screw up and make the clampdown too fast, there won't be any meaningful resistance, that all of us are just too consumed by the lives of those we love to fight and resist in the short term sufficient to make gains in the long term - that and all of our foolishness in holding on to a repeatedly proven wrong belief in the need for leaders mixes up with knowledge that all leaders are corruptible to ensure we talk but do nothing apart from whatever we can manage locally.

Posted by: xbot | Jun 7, 2018 11:37:01 PM | 32

One Israeli scenario is to oust the Hashemites and give Jordan to the Palestinians" The thing is you can't give something to people which they already own. Jordanians are Palestinian and vice versa. The zionist scum may well be considering shifting the remaining 'detritus' of those Palestinians who have been too stubborn to up sticks and leave their traditional homelands in the eastern portion but somehow the pitfalls of that outwidh the pro's.
That many indigenous Palestinians in one place would likely amount to sufficient critical mass & become a major problem. If israel pushes everyone together they will unite too fast, the plan is more likely to be invade but keep the Palestinians of the west bank separate from the 'israeli' Palestinians and the Gaza Palestinians and the Jordanian Palestinians. Keep 'em all apart in manageably sized groups while fomenting seeming betrayals has always been the zionist strategy and there is no need to change a plan that works.
They will get rid of the hashemites and destroy al aqsa as well as gaining physical control of what they called 'jordan' in order to control a bigger chunk of the region.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 8 2018 4:48 utc | 35

There isn't much physical evidence for almost anything about Biblical Israel.

PBS Nova - The Bible's Buried Secrets - Documentary

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 8 2018 4:49 utc | 36

The year was 1990

King Hussein of Jordan had just returned from a trip to Iraq where it is believed he was shown (by Saddam) not just the makings of a fission bomb, but the makings for a thermonuclear device. Later reports confirmed that Iraq had the triggers (perhaps the most technically difficult part of the device) in his possession.

King Hussein looked positive and animated as he abruptly turned away from his loyal support of the US and Saudia Arabia to come down strong and hard in support of Saddam & Palestine. He even began to stand up to Israel.

Then the first Gulf War happened and King Hussein lost all the hard earned prestige that he had earned over a life-time of keeping Jordan alive in a cauldron of big fish wishing to eat little ones.

While he remained a good leader of his people, he he lost all voice in the events that continued to shape the region.

I do not believe the lesson was lost on his family.

Even if Abdullah was disposed to make such a change... could he count on any outside power to pay the bills and support his rule? Putin makes it clear in his statements and in his actions that he has no 'loyalty' to Bashar Al Assad, instead choosing to confront radical Islamic forces in Syria rather than closer to home.

Poverty has been defined by some as lacking real choice. Despite being part of a profoundly wealthy family, King Abdullah is profoundly poor.

Posted by: les7 | Jun 8 2018 5:51 utc | 37

Daniel #36 I tied to access it at 5:52. Result? ' "PBS Nova - The Bible's Bu..." The YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement.'

They're quick, aren't they?

Posted by: Bob Jackson | Jun 8 2018 5:53 utc | 38

In the years that followed the first Gulf war, given that Saddam had no access to nuclear material, it was wondered whether King Hussein had been set up by Saddam in the same way that Saddam had been set up by the Americans - enticed into taking radical steps that would result in the destruction of themselves and their country.

This at a time when both Jordan and Iraq were both gaining respect and being heard - especially by Europe - on affairs concerning regional peace.

Saddam at that time was still operating under CIA instruction - but he himself had zero respect for the Hashemite family line. Was this part of the deal by which it seemed the Americans green-lighted his invasion of Kuwait?

Many have wondered.

Posted by: les7 | Jun 8 2018 6:02 utc | 39

Bob Jackson. Bummer. I found another channel with it. It's well worth a bit less than 2 hours. It's in four parts.

The Bible's Buried Secrets

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 8 2018 6:19 utc | 40

Surely Trump's and Netanyahu's escalating provocations around Jerusalem and the Haram al Sharif are sufficient cause for Abdullah to cancel the natural gas contracts with Israel he was bullied into (and which have enraged Jordanians). If Hugo Chavez were still around, he'd donate some oil to Jordan to help make up the difference (just to annoy our president). Indeed, several sanctioned oil/gas-rich countries (Iran, Russia, Venezuela) could donate product to Jordan. Maybe some other countries, like Qatar, could donate cash. Not only would that annoy Saudi Arabia, it would undercut Saudi claims about Shia influence.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Jun 8 2018 7:55 utc | 41

re debs ravings about how Jordan and Palestine are the same thing, you've been reading too much zionist-centred cr*p. Transjordan and Palestine were separated in the British Mandate of Palestine already in 1921. It was done deliberately to keep Transjordan out of the hands of the zionists, who already had their mits on Palestine with the appointment of a Jew, Samuels, as High Commissioner, or whatever he was. But also the appointment of Abdullah I as amir was to prevent him annoying the French, who had just ejected Faisal from Syria.

Evidently what the Brits did was not necessarily a so-called 'natural' division, as they knew little about local history. But in fact in history, Transjordan was sometimes attached to Palestine, but as often to Damascus, or independent, as in the case of the Nabataean kingdom of Petra. The people are not the same as Palestinians (except for the Palestinian refugees, and 19th century immigrants) but east-bank tribes who used to be the main support of the Hashemites (and the Arab Legion), but are now pretty disrespectful of Abdullah II.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 8 2018 8:54 utc | 42

Posted by: les7 | Jun 8, 2018 1:51:07 AM | 37

"King Hussein of Jordan had just returned from a trip to Iraq where it is believed [by whom?] he was shown (by Saddam [no less]) not just the makings of a fission bomb, but the makings for a thermonuclear device..."

Cool story, bro! Did you hear it from (((Rumsfeld))) or (((Cheney)))?

Posted by: LXV | Jun 8 2018 10:13 utc | 43

Berhnard is right on the money, we have been sharing at Syrper for a long time that the rise of Palestinian militias in Syria supporting its Government and a successful string of victories were they played an important role would culminate with their participation in the liberation of south Syria and then put a lot of pressure on the 3+ millions Palestinians in Jordan to dream about a better life, and reflect upon their chances to face Israel and Jordanian puppet Gov't.

What they did not take in account was the KSA-Israel-US plan to end any Palestinian chances in Palestine and the move of the US Embassy to Jerusalem.That sparked a lot of discontent and have placed Jordan in a very delicate political spot after 7 years supporting the terrorists in Syria and their masters.

Jordan is paying now a price for its stupidity, like Turkey, both vassals of KSA, Qatar, Israel and US/UK, Turkey is going for land grabbing in Syria to release some steam from the discontents of the regime there, while Jordan can not even do that, meaning the regime is doomed to face an angry people.

The US, Israel and KSA are using filthy economic pressure (border closing, no money etc...) to herd the dwarf king toward obeying their will on Jerusalem and to continue to support the terrorists in Syria, Abdullah II knows that if he bends to these demands, the people will revolt against him, but also he knows the very CIA/Mossad can fuel the crowd to de throne him, so he is in a catch 22, unless he gets new "protectors" & "funders".

Judging from the past betrayals by Abdullah II and his father, it is very likely that Jordan bend to the usual, KSA-Israel-US and let loose Jerusalem, Palestine cause and the terrorists in Syria, in exchange of money and a fake protection, but then he will have to face a very angry populous, that in part has been encouraged by the victories in Syria and soon the crushing of terrorists in the south.

Tough spot for Abdullah II, but for someone without a spine like him, he may indeed flee to his beloved England and let Jordan be raped by KSA, Israel, UAE and all sorts of wahhabeasts.

Posted by: Canthama | Jun 8 2018 10:43 utc | 44

The “frontline” states to stop Soviet communism was allied in CENTO after the Pact of Baghdad was undersigned during the first Cold War. The Red Crescent states are now part of the Shia alliance through the Islamic Republic of Iran: from Teheran thru Baghdad – Damascus and Beirut. Qatar has failed miserably thru the Muslim Brotherhood alliance with Turkey, Egypt under Morsi, Libya and the Hamas revolutionaries in Gaza. HRC was the darling of Erdogan, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani of Qatar and by extension the star of Al Jazeera in Doha.

The Sword of Islam represented by those state were propped up by the old colonial powers France and Britain with world power US. Western allies proliferated nuclear know-how to Israel and Pakistan: the Jewish and Islam atomic bomb.

Crown-prince Salman tries to form a military alliance that includes Pakistan. The KSA had already bribed the former president of Malaysia, an investigation is happening today.

No love lost between the Saudi and Hashemite Kingdoms: not only did Yasser Arafat pick the wrong ally in de Saddam invasion of Kuwait, so did King Hussein … until his speech.

As Iraq Awaits Saddam's Downfall, King Hussein Revives Hashemite Claim

Declaring in his opening lines: "God Bless the Arab Hashemite Prophet," the king reaffirmed his dynasty's legitimacy as Muslim rulers through its direct descent from the Prophet Muhammad, the founder of Islam. This is extremely significant. Not even Saudi King Fahd, the Custodian of the Holy Mosques of Mecca and Medina (a title previously held by King Hussein's great-grandfather and his forefathers) can claim this.

The king recalled the brutal death of his cousin and closest boyhood friend, King Faisal II, in the July 1958 Iraqi revolution, comparing this to the historic martyrdom at Karbala in Islam's early days of Imam Hussein (the Prophet's grandson).

The Bush Administration, though annoyed with the King for his speech, nevertheless quickly concluded that the Jordanian monarch would still provide the most stable leadership for Jordan.

Jordan’s burden of a major Palestinian population inside its borders. King Abdullah blocked Palestinian refugees te enter its Kingdom, as these are “cared for” by the UN under the 1948 agreement. A horrible place to be near Damascus for Palestinians – Yarmuk refugee camp.

King Hussein send Jordan’s military unit to fight against Iranians in support of Saddam - 1982

The decision to attack revolutionary Iran was seen as opportunistic and shortsighted. It was criticized by leading Palestinians for diverting attention away from Arab confrontation of Israel. With new worries that Israel is prepared to attack Palestinians in southern Lebanon -- and also possibly Syria and Jordan -- deeper Jordanian involvement in the Gulf war is seen as misplaced priorities.

The Jordanian government is hesitant to answer questions about the numbers signing up for the King's new ''Yarmuk'' force (named after a decisive Arab battle against Byzantium in the 8th century) or about what sorts of bonuses are being promised. Judging by conversations with Jordanians from various walks of life, however, there does not appear to be a flood of volunteers.

Lion of Jordan: The Life of King Hussein in War and Peace

Posted by: Oui | Jun 8 2018 13:39 utc | 45

Then there is Oman, to which the war against Yemen is an affront.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 8 2018 14:13 utc | 46


"It is believed" was in reference to the word on the street at the time that settled on it as the explanation of choice for such a radical shift in policy from someone who made very few such moves. BTW, the 'word on the street' in the Arab world was far more reliable than any media and almost invariably true.

As for the reports of the triggers, if memory serves, it was a BBC report at the time, some time in '92 or '93.

As I indicated in my second comment and confirmed by (@45), there was little love lost between the two regimes and the Quixote-like attempt to reassert Hashemite reach into Iraq after the war may have been Hussein's futile attempt to regains some respect after having been deceived by Saddam.

Posted by: les7 | Jun 8 2018 14:24 utc | 47

Jordan and its ruler has always been between the rock and hammer, and without much wealth, it was/is a precarious position. King Hussein actually managed it pretty well, and kept his head and country. But the situation in the ME has just become worse and worse and Jordan is in an awful situation now and King Abdullah in a worse one.
I suppose the US and Israel will keep him on top and lend support to suppress the population...

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jun 8 2018 14:26 utc | 48

teller says:

Constructing a fusion device is beyond the engineering ability of all but a handful of advanced countries, let alone a third world tinpot dictatorship like Iraq, so your claim is hilariously retarded

a handful of advanced countries? what the fuck does that mean?

i'd guess that since Albert Einstein sent a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt in 1939 stating that the Germans were trying to enrich uranium 235 there've been all kinds of freelancers out there with the prerequisite knowledge. Abdul Khan comes to mind. a very delicate matter, for sure, and very expensive, but, beyond the engineering ability of? i dun think so.

i'm reminded of that slew of assassinations in Iraq back in those heady days of yore…

Posted by: john | Jun 8 2018 15:35 utc | 49

Jordan seems to have a choice between two types of failed state: one destroyed economically by IMF-style neoliberal austerity that will drain the economy and population of money and resources, or one destroyed military by Wahhabi/Israeli/US attacks. Great choices people get these days.

Posted by: worldblee | Jun 8 2018 16:23 utc | 50

worldblee @51--

Or Jordanians can emulate Syrians and fight for their freedom from both evils, for as you reveal they have nothing to lose but their chains.

I must insert this OT note. "We are all globalists now. The question therefore is are we going to be western neo-liberal globalists or Chinese globalists," Adam Garrie declares after the joint statement made by Xi and Putin prior to the SCO Summit. Garrie does an excellent job of comparing/contrasting Win-Win versus Zero-sum Globalism.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 8 2018 16:44 utc | 51

@27 bevin.. thanks for that info and your post @46.

@29 debs... thanks for the education! you're right - i have a lot of opinions and regarding jordan - that are not based on much except what is happening short term.. the historical perspective is valuable.. what do you think of @28 toms link - info?

@36 daniel.. i had heard the holy temples were in yemen.. maybe that is why yemen is being destroyed and torn apart? these religious whack jobs are the best at destroying the planet..

@42 laguerre... thanks for your many posts where i gain additional info and insight..

back to debs - so debs, where does one get the longer term historical knowledge to proceed to better understand the fucked up reality of the middle east at present? i read margaret macmilliams 'paris 1919'.. apparently that wasn't enough..

Posted by: james | Jun 8 2018 17:32 utc | 52

james @53--

Not debs, but may I suggest historian Mark Curtis. A search of his site using the term Palestine provides numerous articles based on his very important Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 8 2018 17:50 utc | 53

There is the Russian option for Jordan. The King met with Putin and was very clear that he sees the big picture. He could opt for the same deal as Erdogan, protection by Russian Intel services and military. Moving toward Eurasia inclusion, he would attract China. And the faster the mess in Syria calms down, the sooner the 1.5 million refugees can return to Syria.

At one time not long ago Jordan and Syria both accommodated CIA needs. Syria switched to Russia. Jordan could begin to move that way, also.

What all the vassal states are seeing clearly, finally, is that the Hegemon demands not only compliance, obedience, surrender of sovereignty, but the death of the state's culture and civilizational roots.

Debt and chaos is but one set of penalties Jordan suffers. Utter disappearance is a real potential fate now that Israel has shown its cards.

The only leverage Jordan has is Russia. Egypt and Libya, like Syria, have discovered that only Russia can protect them against the Hegemon, Israel and the NATO apocalypse.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Jun 8 2018 17:51 utc | 54

There really is no danger of the Hashemite dynasty being overthrown. It is too vital for guarding Israel's eastern flank. If it were to fall into chaos, then it would be a signal of the end for Israel. The long Jordan-Araba frontier is too lengthy to defend perfectly (the Jordan is not a river, but a trickle these days). Jihadi incursions would not be appreciated by the new, modern, Israel, where people expect to be able to lead a peaceful life, and not to have to go to war every month.

Someone said earlier (I forget who), but ah the jihadis are supported by Israel, and notice they don't attack Israel. Well, you know, jihadi is a generic term, some may be in Israeli pay, others might not be. Particularly if the Muslim Holy Places in Jerusalem were under threat (very likely), Israeli support might not work.

All of which leads to the Hashemites being kept in place, even to the tune of the palace being defended by US troops if necessary. Israel, at least the military, will dictate to the US, and the US, even after a lot of argy-bargy with Trump wanting to cut, will end up paying, or organising other people to pay, the subsidies Jordan needs, and doesn't have at the moment.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 8 2018 19:17 utc | 55

@54 karlof1.. thanks! that is the same guy @28 tom linked to that i had opened, but have yet to read..

thanks red ryder and laguerre... laguerre - how long can the usa support israel? that is an ongoing question that doesn't have an answer.. it seems like they are becoming a lot less talented at it..

Posted by: james | Jun 8 2018 22:30 utc | 56

James @51. Yemen has had a significant minority of Jewish inhabitants for millennia. Israel is still coming to terms with the mass kidnapping of Yemeni babies by Jewish Israelis in an obvious attempt to build the "demographic necessity" to claim Israel is both Jewish and Democratic.

Some believe the Arc of the Covenant is secreted way somewhere in Yemen. But I've never heard any claim that the Kingdom of Israel and its Temple was centered there.

Please watch the video I posted if you're interested in the scriptural and archaeological evidence for where the two (or maybe more) Hebrew Temples were.

And the other video I posted is a terrific examination of all the evidence for ancient Israel. Since there are a significant number of influential people/groups intent on leveling "the temple mount" and building the "Third Temple" there, I think it important to know what the knowable reality is of that whole thing.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 9 2018 2:02 utc | 57

Laguerre, the Zionists have occupied Haram esh-Sharif since 1967. Step by step they have taken ever more overt control over it. Today they completely control who can even enter.

When the Zionists decide to level it to build their glorious Third Temple, the existence of the vassal state of Jordan will be inconsequential. Either the Muslims will finally rise up in unified, militant action, or they won't. The Muslim militants will have just as far to travel whether Jordan has been absorbed into Eretz Yisrael by then or not.

If anything, Israel absorbing Jordan and filling it with military bases before they complete their Messianic fantasies would help them secure Jerusalem.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 9 2018 2:16 utc | 58

karlof1 @54. Great article.

Yes, we all live in a global economy, and the AZW Empire's method of "might makes right" foreign plundering policy combined with "austerity" domestic policies is horrendous. There is no reason that all humans could not live relatively comfortable, secure lives for the foreseeable future if we simply used sustainable production methods to create sustainable lifestyles with more equitable distribution.

Well, there is one reason: greedy psychopaths are running the show.

I love the idea of using China/Russia/India/Latin America to present a mostly peaceful option to the Empire's brute force. Of course, China and Russia cannot compete in an actual war with the Empire except by going nuclear.

But whatever their motivation, "win/win" is the only way to secure a future for civilization.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 9 2018 2:31 utc | 59

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 8, 2018 4:54:20 AM | 42

Of course why didn't I see it before the worst theives rapists and murderers for the last 250 years decided to split 'Jordan' asunder from 'Palestine' outta the kindness of the hearts. Ignore the fact that they had just given half the Jordan Valley to a mob of doubtful heritge ashkenazi scum, cos they didn't mean it - they didn't split Jordan off to weaken resistance to the population engineering plan - no, they did that to jordanians for their 'own good!

The callous divide by edict of englanders certainly wasn't a one off.
Lets think of somewhere else where england operated 'for the good of others' - I know the partition of India, which solved an immediate political problem for england by 'giving up India' which enganders promised amerikans as a precursor to amerika buying into the great euro war england did as it was instructed but it created a huge massacre or series of massacres straight away and has left the subcontinent divided and weak. In fact it was the immediate infusion of millions of islamic indians from everywhere else that has A) kept Pakistan & Bangladesh so buggered and B) rightly caused resentment in the so-called tribal areas by the indigenous population who outside religion have absolutely nothing in common with the 'blow-ins' or the pakistani 'secret' agents who spread their anti-Pashtun poison beyond pakistan tribal areas into Afghanistan.

The englanders were aided in that by a another band of irreligious playboy puppets not unlike the hashemites who claim authority over subject people by way of arcane and centuries old religious nonsense yet who live low lives of westernised amoral billionaires untroubled by the religious dictates they force on their subjects - The aga khan and his mob of arseholes in concert with the usual gang to be found in imperialised nations - that is egocentric pols in search of plunder and personal power. The link lists them as "Nehru, Jinnah, Bhutto, Mujibur Rehman" of course the Nehru name was replaced with Ghandi after Congress boss Nehru married his daughter indira off to a schoolteacher by the name of Ghandi who was absolutely no relation to the Mahatma, but there was no way that india's people knew that back then.

You accuse me of lapping up, propaganda zionist propaganda at that. Pitiful leguerre, it is important to maintain objectivity especially when as close to an evil mob like the hashemite puppets as you seem to be.

Imperialism and its bastard stepchild colonialism is always a crime and evil because as a first principle it steals agency from the occupied population. No decision ever made under the auspices of imperialism can ever - ever be judged as honest, reasonable or just because it is made against the tide of the human beings who must suffer that decision. Attempting to retro justify a reprehensible act such as dividing the jordan valley into palestine and jordan or more correctly into 'soon to be israel' and 'eventually to be israel' is a weak attempt to justify the murders of parents by saying that looking back the children got a state education while they were in care which they may not have otherwise received. It ignores the trauma of victims and the freedom to make yer own calls. Whether or not some of the calls may have, in your subjective opinion been 'ill-conceived' is completely f*cking irrelevant.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 9 2018 5:32 utc | 60

@58 daniel..

actually there was someone - and i think they were jewish - who went into great detail over how yemen was a part of biblical history and that some part of yemen, as memory serves - near sanaa, had historical ruins/sites that had an important role in what many people think is located in israel area.. according to this person - it is located in yemen, not israel... i am sorry i am unable to find a link to support this.. it was someone who posted with links to moa in the past couple of years...

Posted by: james | Jun 9 2018 17:12 utc | 61

James. Yes, there have been Jews in Yemen for millennia. Multiple explanations have been presented over the years. Please watch those videos.

Or, if you prefer reading, I can provide a reading list of archaeological, paleographical and genetic studies.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 9 2018 18:49 utc | 62

@63 daniel.. thanks.. i was already aware of that! i was trying to suggest something with no link to back it up.. oh well..

Posted by: james | Jun 9 2018 21:21 utc | 63

James, let me know if you find anything else.

Have you read "The Evolution of God?" The author, Robert Wright comes from a sort of evo-psych perspective, but it's overall a terrific synthesis of the current scholarship.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 9 2018 23:18 utc | 64

Any ME peace plan (including a Trump peace plan) if imposed by the imperial powers will spell the end zionist regime but not necessarily the state of Israel . The zionist regime can only stay in power through perpetual war this why it will never agree to any peace plan. As for the funding of jihadis, generic or not, the tendency seems to be lately for these groups to appear from one day to the next, for specific political ends and then evaporate into thin air again. It's hard to make sense of the smoke and mirror game of these are opaque entities which tend to piggy back the legitimacy of older groups unless they are seen in the context of a century old Imperial policy in the middle east. The Muslim Brotherhood was created by the Brits in Egypt to serve against the emergence of secular sovereign states, and all the groups that have sprung up in this networks, have served the same purpose. The support for Islamic movements was a battering ram of Brit imperial policy everywhere, and the success of these movements, states and statelets from Pakistan to Iran, have had their long lasting consequences, and served their purpose quite successfully. Since Hamas has been given political legitimacy in Gaza in the 2006 elections and has gone from terror group to islamic statelet, it has been supported and funded by the everyone, including Syria until about a year when it has moved its HQ from Damascus to Tehran ( somewhat after the fact that Hamas openly started supporting regime change in Syria). And then there is also Islamic Jihad of Palestine, who claims to be actively behind the present protests on the border..

Posted by: brs314 | Jun 10 2018 18:13 utc | 65

I see by the way, according to the radion this morning that precisely what was predicted to happen over Jordan has indeed happened. In a meeting in Mecca, Abdullah met Saudi and Gulf leaders, and they agreed to pay off Jordanian debts, and to provide budget subsidies for five years. Crisis over in a way that's happened so often in the past. (Pity the Gulf has to pay for Israel's defence, but that's the way things are).

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 11 2018 8:38 utc | 66

Fascist-fellow-traveller, friend of Mussolini, and arch-Zionist Zeev Jabotinsky gives a lecture in Paris concerning Zionist designs on TransJordan ( German or Yiddish language), in front of the Revisionist party members (1934). Released by Jabotinsky Institue in Israel

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Jun 11 2018 14:25 utc | 67

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