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June 03, 2018

The MoA Week In Review - Italy And The Euro - Open Thread

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

Recent news confirmed my analysis. The reported deal had not happened. The Syrian government insists that a U.S. retreat from al-Tanf must be part of any deal over southwest Syria: Syria FM links talks on south to US withdrawal from border area. Interestingly the idea of connecting al-Tanf with a solution in the southwest originally came from the U.S. itself. Next week the deputy foreign ministers of Russia, Jordan and the U.S. will meet in Amman to discuss the pending deal. The current demonstrations in Jordan over economic problems threaten to escalate into a revolt against the state. This gives Jordan, the U.S. and Israel an extra incentive to push for a fast deal with Syria. Jordan could then send back hundred thousands of Syrian refugees and alleviate its economic problems.

Italy voted for a coalition government between the Lega Nord and the Five Star Movement. When the parties presented their new government Berlin and Brussels protested against the new finance minister Paolo Savona, a known critic of the Euro. Directed by the ECB the financial markets immediately demanded higher interest rates for Italian bonds. Under pressure the Italian President Sergio Mattarella vetoed the new government. The parties capitulated. They named Giovanni Tria as their new finance minister. Tria is a member of the 'think tank' FMC (Fondazione Magna Carta):

The think tank aims at combining elements of liberalism with Catholic social teaching, supports the so-called "Judeo-Christian roots" of Europe, and takes a strong pro-United States and pro-Israel stance in foreign policy, especially in relation to radical Islam and Islamic terrorism. [...] FMC has had close ties with American neocons.

The new government has little experience in ruling. The powers-that-be selected Giovanni Tria to potty-train it. The rejected Paolo Savona will serve as Minister for European Union Affairs. This configuration guarantees lively cabinet meetings in Rome and loud discussions in Brussels.

Paolo Savona is right, the Euro was a mistake. It is destroying Italy and other southern countries of the continent. How it does that, why leaving the Euro is the only sane response and how to manage leaving it is detailed here: Sacrificing at the Altar of the Euro.

Also recommended:

- What if Babchenko had decided to stay “dead”? - OffGuardian
- The New York Times and the murder that wasn’t - WSWS
- "Kiev Committed an Act of Terrorism Against Public Opinion by Staging Babchenko's 'Murder'" - Stalkerzone

This is the end of our biannual request for Moon of Alabama donations. A big THANK YOU! to everyone who chipped in. If you haven't done so yet please click above for further instructions.

 Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on June 3, 2018 at 12:03 PM | Permalink

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"All that's been true for not far from a century. Jordan is in Israel's pocket anyway. So what's the new element?"

Posted by: Laguerre

Again, referring to the Likud Party Charter, it says that, though Jordan belongs to the Jewish State of Israel in the Levant, that Israel will allow the situation to remain as it is unless Jordan resists Israel's actions.

So, it could be that public opinion in Jordan is turning against the Kingdom's subservient support of the AZ Empire. There may be more to these protests than economics. As was noted above, most Jordanians identify with the Palestinians, and see the Royals as usurpers.

Or, it could just be that the fascist Zionists think the time is ripe to "Complete 1948."

Again, I'm not predicting this, simply noting that Jordan is not so secure.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 8:16:31 PM | 101

"...taking over Jordan... would give [Israel] a wide open desert frontier, impossible to defend against infiltrating jihadis."

Posted by: Laguerre

When have "infiltrating Jihadis" invaded Israel? ISIL accidentally fired on an IDF unit in illegally occupied Syrian Golan, and immediately issued a public apology. Those Jihadis that could come from Iraq and Syria through Jordan have shown no interest whatsoever in doing so.

Strangely, they only attack countries that Israel wants to see destroyed. Odd, that.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 8:58:56 PM | 102

Debsisdead (and all interested in this “Temple Mount” and planned construction of the “Third Temple” over the ruins of al Aqsa). For decades, there’s been dispute amongst archaeologists/historians over whether the “Western Wall” was really part of any Hebrew Temple construction. It does not match any of the (few) recognized Kingdom of Israel constructions.

But I recently came across the argument that the temples weren’t on the mount at all…. from a Christian/Biblical standpoint.

Since so many people are focused on “supporting Israel” with the goal of “fulfilling prophecy,” I think this sort of information could help pull them back from the edge.

The Temple Mount is not where The world thinks it is

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 9:00:08 PM | 103

Daniel @97--

On the swings and gyrations of human history regarding the rise and fall of empires, IMO one must read Paul Kennedy's book The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000 to acquire a baseline of information that's supplemented by other related "Old World" historical works: Aristotle's Politics, Herotodus's The Histories, Sun Tzu's The Art Of War, Lao-Tze's Tao Te Ching, and India's Mahabharata and Ramayana. Yes, that's a lot of work, and they're just the "shallow end of the pool" as deeper understanding requires far more work. Recall Socrates dicta: "The unexamined life is not worth living. Based upon that, there're untold millions of unworthy souls just in the West. And there lies the basic reason why no utopias have formed on the wreckage of empires--fundamental lack of knowledge, history in particular. Perhaps the best window into the lifecycle of empire is provided by Chinese history, which is mostly shunned in the West to its detriment. Its dynastic cycles interrupted by periods of Warlordism are beyond fascinating to the point of confusing--apparently--the rejection of the knowledge within them mixed with European Exceptionalistic Racism. Too bad the Mongols didn't get all the way to the English Channel; today's world would be quite different. Oswald Spengler's notion of historic cycles I found intriguing, but placed his cycles along a linear temporal timeline such that the cycle doesn't recur at its beginning point but further along in time; it's part of a longstanding historiographical debate regarding history's seemingly repetitive nature.

Much is written about the actions of Empires. Outside of China's experiences, little's been written about the rebuilding atop of the fallen. One organization looking closely at what comes next is the Post-Carbon Society; and there are others. But my muse is broken for now, so I'll leave my comment incomplete.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 4, 2018 9:04:56 PM | 104

@99 grieved.. yes - kurds thrown under the bus by the usa.. they seem very slow to figure it out.. their role as pawn and nothing more, continues..

@100 psycho - h / @105 karlof1.. i like your suggestions and comments.. that book by lao-tze is quite good.. i read it a long time ago and still refer to it on some level..

the thing about jordan that fixed it for me what being told they received some imf fund... that is usually the kiss of death.. not sure how it unfolds for jordan, but aside from laguerre saying they can't fall as they have to protect israel, i think anything is possible here..

Posted by: james | Jun 4, 2018 9:33:29 PM | 105

Again, psychohistorian, as much as I’d love to believe that China and or Russia will create a “multipolar” alternative to the supranational bankster cartel, IMF/World Bank and even the Rothschilds themselves are behind the Belt/Road Initiative and BRICs, and all the big players in the current ruling elite are with China/Russia in the coming one.

“The project is called the Belt and Road Initiative… along with the Jewish state, other notable members include Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Qatar and the Palestinian Territories.

The IMF is all in on the renamed “Belt and Road Initiative” (BRI)

The City of London financial cabal notes:

"In Asia alone, the Asia Development Bank (ADB) estimates that there are $1.7 trillion of infrastructure needs every year until 2025. Some of this will be met though public financing and multi-lateral institutions- indeed, the Silk Road Fund and Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), of which the UK is a Founding Member, have been set up for exactly this purpose.

"London is the number one exporter of financial services across the world… London houses more foreign banks, and accounts for more international bank lending, than any other financial city"

These bloodsuckers are well prepared, and have the "post-economic apocalypse" planned out.
You’re desire to project your good soul onto a fantasized future is lovely. I hope they are kind to you when the new boss (same as the old boss) arrives.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 9:37:11 PM | 106

Thanks for the recommendations karlof1. I appreciate a historian's perspective. It appears you agree that - regardless of the reason for a fall or what arises afterwards - imagining that the current global financial world order will just fall on its own, and a fair and equitable system will arise automatically is most likely fantasy.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 9:47:05 PM | 107

@ Daniel for being critical of the scenarios of karlof1 and myself

Yes, Chicken Little, the sky is falling. What are YOU going to do about it other than spew your TINA fear mongering?

Imagine a better world and then build it around yourself is my suggestion. I have learned that if I can't heal and love myself I am useless thinking about saving anyone else.

And if none of this speaks to you then tell us exactly what it is that us flotsom/jetsom humans should do, please and thank you.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 4, 2018 10:16:57 PM | 108

Daniel, what do you think psychohistorian is saying about how he lives and hopes for change in his recent comment? You pat him on the head but continuing to call his position fantasy suggests you didn't take what he said in the way he wrote it.

If you are right that our divisions aid the powers you act to resist and criticize, then why talk down to psychohistorian, or anybody for that matter? Why not approach everyone, even the trolls, with a heart for complementarity?

Posted by: Charles R | Jun 4, 2018 10:19:34 PM | 109

psycho. Again, I believe that mass strikes and targeted boycotts, combined with mass protests are the best options for a non-violent replacement of the current system. I believe that there is already a great hunger for the very changes you and I wish to see, and if we can successfully spark it, it could catch fire.

Obviously, we will be resisted at every step. Occupy was shut down through a combination of COINTELPRO and police state tactics. But the structure that did survive went on to pay off people's mortgages and otherwise help people stay in their homes, to pay off medical expenses and even student loans.

I personally am not physically able to do much more than I do, which is a lot of letter writing and occasionally phone banking.

There's somewhere between pollyanna and chicken little. I do not believe I am either.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 11:41:34 PM | 110

@ Daniel who wrote that he is "...somewhere between pollyanna and chicken little. I do not believe I am either."

I supported Occupy in Portland, OR and watched it get shut down. This is after living through the 60's and watching the dysfunction ever since. To me the problem is unfocused demand by the brainwashed masses. To my understanding all sides agree on the demand (to get rid of the bankers/public finance) but can't seem to stand up and instantiate it.

The one tenet of our current social contract that is the key impediment to human progress is private finance. I come here daily and bang the drum of that one note Samba. I believe that totally sovereign public finance is coming whether it is demand push or supply pull.

If/when there is a massive public parade to demand public finance, I would be thrilled to be cannon fodder lead for such. Until then I am "keeping my powder dry".

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 5, 2018 12:16:34 AM | 111

psychohistorian. I hope you weren't offended by my abbreviating your screen name in my last comment. It didn't even occur to me until I saw it posted that it could certainly be seen as a slur.

Here's my point. You and I agree on the problem and the goal. Yet, here we are "bickering" over my observation that "they're tearing us apart."

And as much as I love irony, what I hope for is that we will set that spark that sets to motion that "evolution" to a fair and equitable global economy.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 5, 2018 12:16:51 AM | 112

@ Daniel who I want to challenge to define the basic tenets of a human social contract that would support your"fair and equitable global economy"

Tell us something to change in our world that will make a difference and not get bogged down in diversionary tactics.

Let me repeat the quote from Voltaire that you don't seem to get "Act, but stay apart from action". You seem to keep wanting action.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 5, 2018 12:25:11 AM | 113

Daniel, Psychohistorian, Charles R, et al--

The sort of response we all seek doesn't fit into a few paragraphs; I just cited about 10,000 pages worth of historical background needed to make an educated guess at describing one possible outcome amongst many that will take several pages--and hours--of work--time & energy I don't have at the moment. I suggest looking at the contextual background underneath any potential outcome, and that's the slow-motion ecological catastrophe that's rising like a tidal wave of massive proportions, yet ignored by most everyone. The acidification of the ocean is the #1 issue in that regard, and it's already causing damage. Plankton don't use financial instruments to stay alive; Mammon's poison to all things Natural. All the wealth on the planet cannot purchase a pollution free ocean; but as we're seeing, it's certainly capable of destroying the only ocean of its type in known existence--and the ultimate font of life on this planet. Most who come here are on the same team but often work at cross purposes. Discussion's fine as long as we remain focused on the overall context underlying what are essentially trivial events.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 5, 2018 12:29:07 AM | 114

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 4, 2018 8:05:59 PM | 101

I haven't read Confessions Of An Economic Hitman but I don't need to in order to deduce that you don't understand the context, meaning and origins of the term Trickle Down.

Musing on how we came to hold polar opposite views on TD, and wondering why your reference to the IMF was suddenly relevant, when you hadn't mentioned it in your #40, I searched the thread for comments by Daniel and discovered your #37 and the BBC link therein. That article is, imo, quite confused and confusing.

It mentions IMF demands for austerity and the Govt's reduction/ elimination of subsidies for fuel & food items, which explains why the paupers are protesting. It also makes vague reference to pending, unspecified Govt legislation, presumably inspired by IMF demands.

It also says that the Govt has an ongoing problem with Tax evasion and is planning to tackle that glitch by imposing higher taxes on high income entities (the Usual Suspects in tax evasion scams). But it does not spell out any specifics in the new legislation.

Anyway, Trickle Down is and always has been a pre-emptively broken Neoliberal promise intended to smooth the passage of laws designed to benefit the rich (via tax-cuts) at the expense of the poor who are still saddled with Sales Tax and similar flat-rate universal taxes which have an insignificant effect on the well-being of wealthy individuals.
So let's agree to disagree on the nature of Trickle Down and Voodoo Economics until you've found the time to Google each term?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 5, 2018 12:41:15 AM | 115

Hoarsewhisperer. Yes "TD" is the economic theory that when government policies make rich people richer, they will spend money that "trickles down" to "float all boats." In the US, that is usually framed as "tax cuts" that benefit mostly the 1%, but always results in policies that hurt the 99%.

But really, any economic policy that makes the rich richer with the claim that they will then "pay more" - as the article that began our discussion stated - is TD. That was my point.

A brief summation of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman:" The author, John Perkins worked for the supranational banksters through the governments they control. His job was to go to the leadership of foreign countries and convince them to take IMF loans. He would try to sell them on how that money can be spent to build the economy of the country, and raise the standard of living for all (ie. TD).

Of course, any money that actually was spent on infrastructure, etc. really went to foreign contractors, and not locals.

If the leadership resisted, then he would attempt to bribe them.

If that didn't work, then his bosses would "send in the jackets" who would either pull off what we now call a "color revolution" to install and IMF "friendly" regime or simply kill the leadership and then begin the process again.

Jordan took offer one or two. As designed, now that Jordan owes the IMF a lot of money, IMF wants them to slash spending and take out more loans. Now, the King is faced with the inevitable backlash as the citizens see their standard of living drop while forcing investors and corrupt officials get richer.

If he stands with his citizens/subjects and refuses the IMF's "suggestions," then I expect we will see that he suddenly became a dictator who "must go."

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 5, 2018 1:50:43 AM | 116

Charles R. You came into a long-running conversation between psychohistorian and I. Hopefully, my later comments clarified my point.

I absolutely agree that it is ridiculous that this turned negative.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 5, 2018 1:52:42 AM | 117

Psychohistorian. "Tell us something to change in our world that will make a difference and not get bogged down in diversionary tactics."

OK. I think a great starting point would be to nationalize the Federal Reserve System.

I think that a substantial number of people already know the banking cabal is evil personified. But like some here, most do not realize that the Fed is part of the privately-owned supranational bankster cabal.

So, getting people educated and motivated to nationalize the Fed would be perhaps the best starting point. In fact, I think it Could be the tipping point.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 5, 2018 1:56:41 AM | 118

@ Daniel with his idea to nationalize the FED

I think your idea only works if all countries nationalize their Central Banks at the same time. Otherwise the private finance folks will just move their center of operations to another country and still be in control globally.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 5, 2018 2:17:57 AM | 119

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 4, 2018 12:14:33 PM | 78

Sorry to be so tardy in responding Paveway, back in the day when the Guardian was about the only daily to resist the status quo editorially it was printed in the same style as every other 'pre-Murdoch take over of the Times', fishwrap. Journos wrote their piece, which was subbed by subeditors and then burly inkstained blokes would type it all up on a machine which had a keyboard like an old manual typewriter but was attached to a huge system of molten lead and weird conveyors. The words come off the conveyor, whereupon another burly inkstained bloke would 'set' the type in a frame according to the layout he had been provided with. Later on the keyboard op would type out the story onto a sheet or roll of shiny on one side paper and that would be cut up and 'pasted' according to the particular preordained layout.

For whatever reason - some blamed the typist, others the typesetter or others still the proof reader (which was about the only job at a paper where women were prevalent), the Guardian generally contained considerably more spelling errors and 'typos' that any other paper.
At that time a weekly satirical magazine called 'Private Eye' ran a column called "street of Shame" which was loaded with gossip and innuendo around the mainly drunken debauch of Fleet Street's journos for the major national dailies. Every paper had a derogatory nickname and the Guardian notorious for it's frequent typos was called "The Grauniad". That name has stuck for a variety of reasons.

On Sundays the Grauniad site becomes just as its analog broadsheet predecessor did - a different publication, "The Observer". The change is to the name plus it allegedly has its own editorial staff, but the type face layout and style remain.

The Observer's origins date back to the 18th century 1791 - this is one old crack filler/draught preventer. It got into a great deal of trouble in 1956 when it came out against the FukI invasion of egypt and failed takeover of the Suez Canal. Such seeming 'treason' so soon after the great 20th century euro war wasn't popular in england and the Observer lost about 50% of its subscribers in the space of a coupla weeks.
Yet at the time of Suez the Observer was owned by renown anglo/amerikan jewish family the Astors. Zionists believed persuading FUK to invade Egypt and (hopefully) depose or assassinate Gamal Abdel Nasser (yeah Paveway I know you know this stuff but others may not #;-).
Whatever else Ike was - segregationist? he was no zionist, so amerika decided to forgo the offer of stealing the Suez Canal, dooming the FukI plan.
Somehow the observer was held accountable and that combined with the Astors not having had a 'good war' meant The Observer had to be sold. The Guardian bought the rag and incorporated it into their Fleet St 'stable'.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 5, 2018 2:24:40 AM | 120

not only ramadan but the two months before (rajab and shawwal). not only war is forbidden but even hunting…

Posted by: mina | Jun 5, 2018 6:21:09 AM | 121

Thank you mina @ 121
Sadly it seems all about money and grabbing land. Nothing to do with religion. Leaders use nationalism to trick there people to fight! But what I see is good people and bad in all country's and most of both have been misinformed. But take heart! There are billions of us who know the truth,from our own bitter experience. We need to join up now and share the truth.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 5, 2018 7:00:32 AM | 122

A good overview of the current political state of Russia.

Posted by: Bakerpete | Jun 5, 2018 8:08:42 AM | 123

graun is the nickname of Thr Guardian, a once fine newspaper that's now sold out
spectacularly, and is atrociously PC.

Posted by: nobbler | Jun 5, 2018 8:49:52 AM | 124

psychohistorian@119 Right because ALL countries decided at the same time that South Africa's apartheid system was bad, and contrary to most HISTORIANS there were Rosa parks on ALL white only bus seats that day. Come to think of it I bet ALL the oligarchs were on board with Bretton Woods right? Maybe they synchronized their timepieces:)

Don't get me wrong psychohistorian I totally respect your POV, I even agree with most of what you say here, yet sometimes I wonder which side you are really on as comment 119 really suggests limited hangout too me. The god of Mammon will not be removed peacefully or of it's own volition.

If history teaches anything it's that things happen because of us not for us. I'm with Daniel action is required, I'm also with you in that it can't be forced..... yet somehow it must be as history teaches."'

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jun 5, 2018 8:55:08 AM | 125

ref MbS possible death
it wld mean that UAE is now in charge for Yemeni war and occupation (they've planted their flag on Socotra to make things clear)
it wld also explain some derogatory comments made by Sissi in public interviews about the regional situation and the warm preparations for Ru world cup (on tv all day long with special progs shot there already)

Posted by: mina | Jun 5, 2018 10:02:21 AM | 126

Karlof1 @l05

We all should follow your example in leaving a comment unfinished - it so invites helpful follow-ons that it fits very well in this format. I found myself immediately wanting to suggest additional readings about the question of empire, and I'd like to go back to Hoarsewhisperer's link at #7 where the turcopelier site has a further link to a brief by Nicolai Petro titled Are We Reading Russia right?

There are many positive points being made about Russia since Putin in the article, but where it really falls short I think is in positioning 'the West' in such bland terms as to suggest (and some posters on this thread do also) that Pussia/Putin is seeking to join the West as it currently is, with a mild scold to the 'exceptionalist' elites. No, sorry, this will not do. Stronger terms must prevail, and empire and the fall thereof has righly become the topic of this thread.

I will go back to what I have said in the past, that to see what such a fall entails and how it happens, we only have to look at Russia itself, before and after Putin. This is how the fall of an empire goes. So, the books I would add are Tolstoy's 'War and Peace' (with some caveats about his historical theory but it's useful to study nonetheless), then ALL of Dostoievski, though maybe 'The Devils' gets you into the Soviet empirical era. See, Russia has had two sorts of empire, even if you leave out the Golden Horde. They've experienced it all. And then, to top it all off, they got neoliberalism in spades under Yeltsin, and it nearly destroyed them.

A good thing that Petro did say was that we need to consider both sides of the Roman empire, the east as well as the west. Russia embraced the former, was tempted into changing into the latter, threw that off and got - what?

She has seen it all. And we are dutifully following in her footsteps. Trump's not as happy as Yeltsin seemed to be, but my they are lookalikes. But now MY muse is hovering - anyone else?

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5, 2018 10:06:43 AM | 127

I did mean to say "Russia/Putin" but perhaps the Freudian slip is not entirely inappropriate.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5, 2018 10:09:28 AM | 128

Regarding an improvement, for about 40 years I've agreed with those who believe that cutting back on the over use of fossil fuels, both by the military, individuals, and societies, would be good for everyone. Take a strong leader to force that change. Be tough to drive to the protests! But just suggest that someone in this area cut back on their pleasure crafts out on the lake or in the snow, their second and third homes, their new automobiles, and you will encounter the resisatance of a mob of comprised of all sorts. And that's just one sliver of one percent of the change required, in my opinion.

I agree in sentiment with the gentle collapse theory, but I wonder if I lived in Palestine, Syria, etc., if I would be so at peace with it all. Maybe there too there are quiet places where I'd have time for my silent contemplations. But, as violence on nature, and my fellow travellers exists, I remain against it all where I can, and long for the liberation required as soon as possible!

Also, I kind of see the extreme change required at this late date, may mean a lot of good folks dieing off around here, who are accustomed to the food and fuel delivery system in the parts where I live. But I suppose the millions who perish in wars isn't too different?

As for utopia and "evolution" I'm thinking at my age, that even if we get that 1000 years of prophesied peace, the same kinds of problems, in new settings, will spring up all over again. And in short order. Somehow, I think that's part of the bargain with the devil one makes in order to live at all. Seems like in this age, kind of arrived at an end game though. . .

Posted by: Geoff | Jun 5, 2018 11:09:52 AM | 129

"..Somehow the observer was held accountable and that combined with the Astors not having had a 'good war' meant The Observer had to be sold. The Guardian bought the rag and incorporated it into their Fleet St 'stable'." @120
You're leaving out the best bit: Tiny Rowland and Lonrho

"In 1977, the Astors sold the ailing newspaper to US oil giant Atlantic Richfield (now called ARCO) who sold it to Lonrho plc in 1981.

"It became part of the Guardian Media Group in June 1993, after a rival bid to acquire it by The Independent was rejected.[8"

What Debisdead does not tell us,(no reason why he should either) about Private Eye is that in those early years when it was running The Street of Shame, edited by the famous 'Lunchtime O'Booze' one of its greatest attractions was a comic strip written by Barry Humphries-Barry Mackenzie which chronicled the adventures of a young aussie in London.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 5, 2018 11:10:35 AM | 130

@ Tannenhouser who wrote: "The god of Mammon will not be removed peacefully or of it's own volition."

Thanks for the follow on to my comments. I agree that the god of Mammon will not die of its own volition but am hopeful that the process will be mostly peaceful in the sense of no nukes or similar mass murdering.

Who will stand with me to demand totally public finance worldwide? That is and has been the only action that I deem appropriate for this situation. I am not offering to lead a parade but to state clearly my requirement for a better world.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 5, 2018 11:15:49 AM | 131

juliania @126--

Thanks for your well considered reply. I wrote a general reply to all that further dealt with the topic at hand but it appears it got swallowed by The Cloud after it was posted--what a waste of effort and very demoralizing.

Essentially, the current political-economic crisis/Hybrid Third World War is veiling the underlying far deeper and more important ecological crisis. I highlighted ocean acidification and the fact that all the monies in the world cannot purchase a pollution free ocean, that it's unique within the Universe, and that it's THE font of life on this planet; and that acidification's effects are already damaging organisms fundamental to the entire planetary trophic system within which humans exist. Yes, it's an existential crisis, but very few are actually calling it such. And it's with that background in mind that China's and Russia's developmental policies must be examined as well as the very negative ecological policies Trump promotes. For example, is Nordstream II ecologically beneficial versus tanker loads of USA's LNG? IMO, the pipeline's far superior in both monetary and ecological costs. Another seldom discussed aspect of BRI is it's aiding participating nations to bypass the heavy industrial phase of development and jump directly into the Digital Age by using the already existing industrial base in China and Russia. One final example: the Outlaw US Empire's military's the #1 planetary polluter; so, curtailing operations and closing its overseas bases would significantly decrease its hefty carbon footprint.

On one hand we have the Unipolar Parasite--very much like a blood-gorging tick imparting Lyme Disease to humanity--while on the other hand we have the Multipolar Pest Exterminator/Doctor trying to limit the pest's infestation while finding a way to neuter it at least if not eradicate it completely. If you know anything about the horrors of Lyme Disease, you'll comprehend the analogy as it's certainly an existential threat to those unlucky to become infected.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 5, 2018 11:37:04 AM | 132

fascinating comments everyone.. thanks!

in particular - great to hear from @126 juliania follow up to karlof1 and @131 karlof1 post too...

for me the idea of thinking globally but acting locally is really useful. if my needs can be accounted for locally, or if i can make it this way, there is less of a carbon footprint globally.. i am concerned of how we can survive on the planet given the way we are collectively living on the planet.. karlof1 sums it up well - all the monies in the world cannot purchase a pollution free ocean - same deal for just about anything ecological... we are wiping out species and changing the planet in ways that are not reversible... all the money in the world can't change this either.. but alas - we collectively continue to worship the god of mammon.. in fact, we are being forced into it via this system where banks and speculation continue to drive us into oblivion... sorry i can't be more optimistic! i will stick to doing what i can locally and comment here at moa - which is acting locally too i suppose..

Posted by: james | Jun 5, 2018 12:09:28 PM | 133

Diana Johnstone ++, short and basic, on Italy.

Other points:

Both the League and 5S are NOT anti-Trump, nonetheless have slightly different view-points, gets complicated.

Both are against Russia sanctions, they are Kremlin sympathisers. They particularly approve of, support, R actions in Syria, see 5S for ex. The Lega has a cooperation agreement with Russia since 2017. (What exactly that entails beyond public support idk.) ex. 2mins.

Both approve of the annexation aka return of Crimea. They agree fighting terrorism is vital… (MSM calls it conservative backlash against liberal values, errr..)

Ex. one article on sanctions.

Both reject ‘austerity’ as a Gvmt. policy, though the reasons/recipes for change may differ a bit, imho not too important.

The stumbling-block to Italy re-gaining sovereignity is that Italians are extremely attached to EU-belonging and to using the Euro.

Greece was similar. Tsipras was not just a ‘traitor’ (more of a fool perhaps, long story..) Recall Varoufakis wanted to ‘reform’ the EU (and still does) leaving it / or Euro was a plan B that was never worked out.

Italians want to belong to the Eurozone, and taking the mega step to get out, specially if painted in scary terms (with references to Brexit, which is a completely different case), or other...

So there is an inherent contradiction which isn’t faced - by Italians.

Just like in Greece: The EU/euro is killing us but we can’t leave.


Last thing I remember (…) I had to find the passage back to the place I was before (…) (…) You can check out any time but you can never leave.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 5, 2018 12:45:08 PM | 134

Alstair Crooke provides input to the energy and hegemonic aspects of our discussion by fleshing out what might be described as Trump's Energy War Strategy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 5, 2018 1:03:18 PM | 135

james says:

i will stick to doing what i can locally and comment here at moa

which, i'm sure you agree, is hardly gonna be enough, being compromised as we are...i mean, what with karlof1's reminder of the state of the environment, and psychohistorian's single-handed mission to slay the god of Mammon, and all...

Dmitry Orlov describes the predicament succinctly in his latest piece

Collapse causes the limits of constructive action to constrict to a tiny circle surrounded by a vast expanse of unintended consequences. Victory and defeat become redefined: we feel victorious when those most responsible for the collapse do something spectacular to thwart their own purpose while we do nothing; we feel defeated when the collapse process slows down and settles into a pattern of interminable, durable failure

Posted by: john | Jun 5, 2018 1:04:06 PM | 136

@ Noirette | 133

Thanks for the link to the excellent Johnstone article.

I've heard that the ostensibly leftist "Counterpunch" site won't publish her articles any more; I'm not sure why, but it does not do them credit.

Posted by: Ort | Jun 5, 2018 1:11:19 PM | 137

psychohistorian @119
“I think your idea only works if all countries nationalize their Central Banks at the same time.”

So, apparently, at least part of your philosophy of not working together to actively replace the current system comes from a feeling of powerlessness. I can certainly relate to that.

But, as you know, there are countries that have nationalized Central Banks. Yes, they are being attacked by those “hybridians.” Libya was the most recent to fall, and the “rebels” instituted a private Central Bank before Gaddafi had even been murdered.

Sure, if we nationalized the Fed, then the private banksters would be forced to take their dirty business elsewhere. That would be a good thing, though of course, they will try to “make the economy scream” as Henry Kissinger ordered for Allende’s Chile.

As you’ve noted, the fall of this banking/finance cartel will cause great upheaval for all of us. I’d rather be part of the group steering that upheaval than just being taken for a ride.

I'll close once again by seeing your Voltaire and raising you a Frederick Douglass:

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 5, 2018 1:32:21 PM | 138

Well, I see Jordan's Prime Minister "resigned" over his handling of the economic crisis and mass protests. The solution?

“King Abdullah has reportedly asked Omar al-Razzaz, the education minister and a former World Bank economist, to form a new government.”

The supranational bankster cartel does not surrender to popular will without a struggle.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 5, 2018 2:23:08 PM | 139

@137 john.. thanks for the link to club orlov.. i always enjoy reading him, but often forget to take a look, especially since he went to a paid subscription platform for part of the week...

Posted by: james | Jun 5, 2018 5:51:37 PM | 140

#Ort @138:

Slowly, but apparently surely, Counterpunch is disappointing many...After the passing of Alexander Cockburn, it's headed downhill.

Posted by: kgw | Jun 5, 2018 9:09:04 PM | 141

@142 james

You may want to read that Orlov piece to the end. Far from the despair suggested in the comment linking to it, Orlov ends by suggesting that an entire realm of propaganda may now be neutralized by what may come to be called the "Babchenko Effect">

Everyone seeks the urgent answer for what to do? But sometimes it's enough simply to notice what just happened?

The state of the world is changing by leaps and bounds. But not all this change can be credited to, or laid at the door of, any one leaper or bounder in the field.

How then does change occur? The universe itself is a player also. Not everything is achieved by action, or by the doing of things. "The Way does not hurry, and yet nothing is left undone." - Tao Te Ching

What then is meaningful for us as humans to do? Obviously, the best we can, as we see fit. But despair is never called for, since we never own the results.

They tell me that the Hopi have a 4-part doctrine for how to behave in this world:

1. Show up.
2. Be alert.
3. Tell the truth.
4. Don't be attached to the result.

We don't own the result. And we don't need to.

This being so, I find it far more productive to see what the world has achieved overnight, than to worry that it has not achieved enough.

Posted by: Grieved | Jun 5, 2018 10:10:37 PM | 142

> ort 138.

counterpunch was always imho a sorta smarmy left-gatekeeper site - i never could be bothered reading it except for ex. author d. johnstone - she has another good article at the site about france may 68, she was there, it is really worth a read - not surprised counterpunch don’t like her no mo as she is skirting close to the bone even though she did not mention in that article russia and sanctions, which i added as points.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 6, 2018 11:10:00 AM | 143

Grieved says:

Far from the despair suggested in the comment linking to it, Orlov ends by suggesting that an entire realm of propaganda may now be neutralized by what may come to be called the "Babchenko Effect"

indeed, and don't we feel victorious?

despair is your word of choice. Orlov's a troubleshooter, hardly one given to hopelessness. his impressive body of work on collapse is frightening, but intelligent and compelling, and in any case tempered with a splendid sense of humour, which is what i apply as well, whenever i can, as opposed to genteel positivity...and charming little nuggets of wisdom from the Orient.

but sure, in the end, the universe will provide.

Posted by: john | Jun 6, 2018 11:43:27 AM | 144

@143 grieved / 145 john..

i did read the article to the end and thanks again john!

sometimes it feels like everything moves slower then i would like.. i though the babchenko outcome is quite favourable in so far as it is one more example of something corrupt backfiring... presently it looks the same for a number of usa actions too!

Posted by: james | Jun 6, 2018 1:21:39 PM | 145

Is there a "civil war" between establishment/"deep state" factions represented by Hillary/Obama-Qatar/Muslim Brotherhood ("globalists"/"socialists") and Trump-KSA ("nationalists"). Revelations that have come to light indicate that Trump/Trump campaign was set up so that "Russian influence" allegations could be made and investigated post-election.

But it's difficult to see why the establishment would be so much against Trump. Trump, like Obama has proven to be a faux populist. His lawyer (Cohen) has even (apparently) engaged in play-to-play schemes on his behalf (as Trump rails against the "swamp")!

IMO the political charades that we have seen have as much to do with the "betrayal" of ISIS as they do with anti-Russian psy-ops. Many extremists and supporters of extremists would be angry at USA/KSA for the change in direction. But CIA-KSA can point to the efforts made to subvert the Trump campaign to show that they tried to prevent that change in direction despite their knowledge that such a change was necessary (!). The Orlando nightclub attack shows that the extremists/extremist supporters really believed the goodcop/badcop routine. The fact that these attacks were memory-holed by MSM may be considered further evidence.

The 2016 US Presidential election was completely fixed. Trump was meant to win. No one of any importance will see jail due to the "Russian influence" investigation or the set-up.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

To refresh your memory:

ISIS attacks Russian airliner Metrojet 9268 over Egypt soon after Russia enters the Syrian conflict - despite US supposedly bombing ISIS for at least a year, there had been no major attack on USA.

San Bernadino terrorist attack occurs weeks later by a couple with a young child - they had links to KSA. A reasonable person could question if this attack was mean to address the lack of major attacks on USA when Russia was attacked within weeks of entering the Syrian conflict.

Orlando Pulse Nightclub attacker was a man with a wife and child - they also had links to KSA. The attack occurred soon after Trump and Hillary had secured their respective Party nominations.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 6, 2018 2:03:59 PM | 146

@ kgw | 142; Noirette | 144

Thanks for your responses.

After posting my previous comment, I belatedly searched for information on Johnstone's alleged exclusion from Counterpunch. I quickly found a recent article by Johnstone herself discussing the topic:

"Antifa or Antiwar: Leftist Exclusionism Against the Quest for Peace" by Diana Johnstone, May 21, 2018

FWIW, I find Johnstone's "side of the story" credible. Some may scorn or dismiss these contretemps as simply more leftist circular firing-squad antics, but I think this clichéd, reductionist disapproval is misplaced.

Unfortunately, CP seems to have retained the late Alexander Cockburn's elitist sensibilities, but without his redeeming qualities.

Posted by: Ort | Jun 6, 2018 2:44:39 PM | 147

Psychohistorian might like this..

Posted by: ben | Jun 6, 2018 3:30:02 PM | 148

@ ben with the link they thought I would like.

Yes, I did and thank you. It is nice to see the subject being discussed.

My only upgrade to it would be to extract the myth that the Fortune 500 represent the real elite in our world. People need to learn what trusts are and think about why there is no reporting of the largest trust funds, nor their interconnectedness within families.....over centuries.........Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are not our problem any more than those that are never named behind those huge trusts. What is our problem are the tools of private finance the elite use to maintain that jackboot on our economic lifeblood.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 7, 2018 12:03:16 AM | 149

Addendum @147; lots of dots to connect

>> I find USA repositioning in Syria after the Trump election to be fascinating. And it seems to me that the transition away from using ISIS was done in a way that has minimized blow-back from disgruntled ISIS fighters/supporters (some killed, others relocated, all chalked up to political changes forced by Trump's win and Russia's entry into the war). In other words, well-planned. That makes sense given that Sy Hersh wrote that (essentially) KSA asserted that they would better control extremists in Syria than they had the Al Queda extremists in Afghanistan.

>> Anyone that believes that "Deep State" efforts against Trump were really an attempt to prevent him from becoming President might be inclined to see the Orlando Pulse Nightclub attack as part of that effort given CIA ties to KSA and (indirect) support for ISIS. If so, that would be treasonous. IMO it was ordered by KSA supporters of ISIS who bought into the Democrat-Republican goodcop-badcop routine. Interestingly, Saudi leadership changed after the Orlando attack (with CIA help?) - Salman became King and elevated MbS.

>> Then there is Erdogan and the Vegas shooting to consider. The attempted coup against Erdogan happened in July 2016 (about 5 weeks after the Orlando Pulse Nightclub attack). Could the Vegas shooting have been an ISIS terror attack (blow-back) that was covered up to make it look like a lone nut? That might better explain why MbS arrested dozens of wealthy Saudis weeks later, which was reported as a shakedown - was it also an attempt to eliminate remaining support for ISIS?

>> Also notable that Trump emphasized KSA's new anti-terrorism stance when he was there last year. There has been no reporting on just how difficult it has been to reign in ISIS. Memory-holed? Do multi-national terrorist organizations just melt away?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 7, 2018 4:04:10 AM | 150


European Powers Reportedly Set on Driving Iran From Syria Amid Netanyahu’s Visit

EU are not only a puppet to US but also to Israel...and jihadists apparently that will soar in Syria when Syria/Iran is not allowed to fight them!

Posted by: Zanon | Jun 7, 2018 5:40:15 AM | 151

G7 summit is falling apart. Lulz. *grabs popcorn*

Posted by: meme | Jun 7, 2018 11:23:10 AM | 152

Can't post this to the Jordan thread due to some sort of technical problem, so seeing if it will stick here.

I've always seen Jordan as key to any solution in Palestine and once advocated for merging the two entities into one large Palestine. With its large number of Palestinian refugees and idiocy of getting an IMF SAP loan, the usual SAP riots were sure to start and will likely continue as the only way of getting rid of it is to deem it illegitimate by proving governmental corruption in league with IMF officials as is always the case.

So, how does King PlayStation keep his throne? Well, first off, who are the real enemies/threats to Jordan? Israel, Saudi, IMF, Outlaw US Empire, and their assorted terrorists. Second, who can Jordan count on as a friend? Here the pickings are rather slim as the king's choices have painted him into a seemingly friendless corner, although it would seem he'd be better served by aligning with The Resistance while politely asking to become part of BRI. The latter choice would probably be supported by most of the populace--citizen and refugee. The problem with adopting such a policy is the presence within of the Outlaw US Empire and its terrorists. I expect something to happen within Jordan in response to Syria's Daraa offensive slated to begin in a week after Ramadan's conclusion; just what remains unpredictable, however.

IMO, for peace to finally be established in Southwest Asia, three entities need to be removed from the region once and for all: The Outlaw US Empire and its NATO vassals; the Zionist Abomination; Saudi Arabia. All three promote extremism and terrorism and racism of the worst sort and should cease being members of the human community until becoming radically reformed and defanged.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 7, 2018 3:46:20 PM | 153

66th bilderberg meeting in turin, italy.. always interesting to see who is on the invited list... annie applepants made it...

some canucks too, that i was unfamiliar with..

karlof1 - i will try to post your post above to the jordan thread..

Posted by: james | Jun 7, 2018 6:16:34 PM | 154

james @155--

Thanks for your offer but it seems to have freed itself from whatever technical jam was hindering it as it's now posted there.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 7, 2018 6:30:01 PM | 155

Netanyahu says Syria ‘no longer immune’ from Israel’s attacks

“The consequences are not merely to the Iranian forces there but to the Assad regime as well …, I think it's something that he should consider very seriously,” the Israeli premier further said.

Posted by: test1 | Jun 7, 2018 7:04:16 PM | 156

@156 karlof1... yes - i saw that, so didn't post it! cheers - james

@157 test1... netanyahu likes stating the obvious i guess! israel has been attacking syria all along.. nothing much has changed... usa/uk give them a pass on it regularly too... i think the change here is that syria was throwing some stuff back at them into the golan heights.. i suspect israel is in a more difficult situation now and not as confident at this moment in time.. thus the new focus on jordan...

Posted by: james | Jun 7, 2018 7:59:17 PM | 157

@157 test1

This is not a good development, as Netenyahu will feel obligated to make good on his threat. There's a good chance that this is part of a greater plan to start something major during the World Cup.

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Jun 7, 2018 10:34:58 PM | 158

Thanks, ben @149.

That's what I'm talking about! In fact, I went round and round with "somebody" here a few days ago, writing many of the exact points Glen makes in this rousing article.

“We are making a revolutionary demand that is actually a popular demand.”

YES! Revolutionary. Demand.

And psychohistorian, you are absolutely correct that the really wealthy people are largely invisible, or at least not listed on Forbes Richest lists. All such lists name the nouveau riche, not the deep, dynastic wealth. One will find a Rockefeller or two, but even they are only 3 generations away from a literal snake oil salesman.

Glen writes: “The heads of the big banks can be listed on the fingers of one hand.”

But of course, it's not the heads, but the owners that really matter, and they learned how to hide their wealth many generations ago. The lists contain nary a mention of a Rothschild or Warburg, or even a Morgan.

Glad to see that we're (back) on the same page on this. As Glen closes, all else can fall into place once we've nationalized the banks.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 7, 2018 10:44:14 PM | 159

As a follow on to the link from james about the Bilderberg conference there is the link below from ZH

Why Is A Top Vatican Official Hanging Out At Bilderberg?

Pope Francis is trying his hardest to make the Catholic church relevant because he can see the future is not the past. It will be interesting to see if he is ready to stand up to private finance or just want to make it more palatable for the masses.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 7, 2018 10:58:16 PM | 160

psychohistorian. I noticed a Vatican rep on the list. My first thought was that'll get the "Jesuits run the new world order" crowd going.

But there was much speculation that the reason Pope Nazi... oops, I mean Pope Benedict... resigned was because of the Vatican Bank scandal. A couple years ago, Bloomberg was all excited about Pope Francis cleaning up and turning around the bank, so I guess they're welcome at the table now.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 8, 2018 2:27:00 AM | 161

Timothy Hagios

Russia could have stopped Israel but for some reason threats against Assad by Israel is ok.

Posted by: Zanon | Jun 8, 2018 6:18:34 AM | 162

JackRabbit @ 147 and @151

Along the same line of thinking: I have wondered if the MBS shakedown wasn't in reality a "tax" levied for the Wahabi linked shenanigans you mentioned. One half was offered to settle the account and it cost MBS his life.

IF we see the US claim the Yemen humanitarian crisis as an excuse to begin distancing from Muslim Brotherhood; then my conjecture might have merit. I believe we are witnessing the Trutha de Duana, Druid, Tammany Hall branch unseat the Bloodline, old European, Vatican branch for the head of the octopus.

Posted by: mrd | Jun 8, 2018 9:56:13 AM | 163

Regarding the curiously absent MBS, he's supposed to be in attendance for the Russia vs. Saudi Arabia soccer game at the World Cup. Will we see him? The moment of truth approaches.

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Jun 8, 2018 10:43:34 AM | 164

Alright then......I stumbled across the link below and had to share with the MoA folks as an example of America under new age private schools

Private Florida schools receiving taxpayer dollars are teaching humans lived with dinosaurs — and slavery wasn’t so bad

America today is not the one I went to grade and high school in the 50's/60's in. That said, the original US Motto of E Pluribus Unum was changed in the 50's to In God We Trust. The argument then (what I was told) was the need to fight godless communism.

It seems clear to me that godless "capitalism", which seems to be what America is stricken with, is far worse than godless communism.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 9, 2018 3:05:10 AM | 165

The sadism by Israel..

Horrific moment IDF gas canister hits Palestinian in the face (GRAPHIC PICTURES)

Posted by: Zanon | Jun 9, 2018 5:16:39 AM | 166

When Barbara Bush died recently, I was reminded of a Moms Mabley line, which I used thusly: “I was taught to only say good about the dead.”

“Barbara Bush is dead.”


Throwing even that convention to the winds, the great site OffGuardian reran a piece originally written before the terrible news and endless hagiographic bios about the now dead celebrity chef, Anthony Bourdain. Some new commentary updates it and won’t leave you hanging. In our eternal quest to satiate our appetite for tasty new morsels of modern, Western propaganda I present, Anthony Bourdain’s State Department Smorgasbord.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 12, 2018 11:50:05 PM | 167

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Posted by: Avant Loans | Jun 15, 2018 7:17:08 PM | 168

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