james @78: elijah j m's latest on syria here.

Can someone please clarify the following:

Towards the end of last year, both Presidents (Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump) agreed on a de-escalation zone in south Syria to respond to Israel’s interests.
In the run-up to the action in southwestern Syria, the US were saying that such an operation would violate a de-escalation agreement. Its my understanding that Russia rejected that. When the Russians and Syrians set up de-escalation zones, they didn't need outside approval to do so.

Today, the patron of Moscow convinced the occupier of the White House to swallow a “sleeping pill” ...
What the heck does this refer to?

“Israel bombed on Monday night the vicinity of Damascus airport just to say to the Syrian central government it was still a player and could still shuffle the cards in Syria hitting any location without any warning (and any strategic purpose) ...
I thought Israel had attacked an Iranian transport/supply plane. Which means that the attack wasn't simply a show of force.

Last week, unknown jets – claimed by sources in command to be Israeli not US – bombed the Iraqi security command and control position on the Iraqi-Syrian borders ...
"claimed by sources in command" neatly masks that those "sources" were American. b covered this and I think his thinking was that such an attack would've been difficult for Israel to make.

Washington is taking off the gloves ...
Yet on June 24th (3 days before this article by Elijah!) Washington told the jihadis that they are "on their own": they can't expect any help from USA/Coalition. How exactly is Washington "taking off the gloves?"

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 30 2018 0:10 utc | 101

On the concept of mandatory service to one’s society:

I do not believe that psychohistorian's “god of Mammon” will self-destruct and a wonderful system will somehow naturally arise phoenix-like from the ashes.

I am certain we must deliberately and actively turn theory into praxis. TPTSB are constantly doing just that, so the only way we can prevent them from continuing their domination is to plan and act.

Given that people have a natural desire to be social, but our current system is systemically anti-social, I posit we need to develop systems that bring out the best in our species. A mandatory period of time spent doing socially-positive and socially-affirming work before setting out on one’s adult path could help us plant and/or nurture those positive views and habits, which would then manifest for a lifetime.

This is not to say that even younger children don’t need to be socialized. Nor is it to imply that completion of this period would fulfill one’s obligation (dharma). Quite the opposite.

The idea is to create/nurture in all young adults a lifelong sense of duty to fulfill, and love for a positive social role.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 30 2018 4:20 utc | 102

Daniel 102

I do not believe that psychohistorian's “god of Mammon” will self-destruct and a wonderful system will somehow naturally arise phoenix-like from the ashes.

It will destroy itself and collapse on its own, but whether anything good arises from the ashes depends upon human organizing action, whether it be political, religious, etc.

Given that people have a natural desire to be social, but our current system is systemically anti-social, I posit we need to develop systems that bring out the best in our species. A mandatory period of time spent doing socially-positive and socially-affirming work before setting out on one’s adult path could help us plant and/or nurture those positive views and habits, which would then manifest for a lifetime.

So for this and the prior reason, why aren't you calling for movement-building completely outside the system instead of, so far as I can see, escalated tyranny within it? There's no conceivable way anything de jure mandatory within this system wouldn't be straight tyranny. Even the alleged "voluntary" stuff is mostly tyrannical.

Posted by: Russ | Jun 30 2018 4:36 utc | 103

Russ asked: "why aren't you calling for movement-building completely outside the system instead of, so far as I can see, escalated tyranny within it?"

I do. My comment is partly rebuttal to psychohistorian who repeatedly claims that no such movement building is necessary. For even if you and he are correct that the global financial system will self-destruct, I suggest that the greedy MFers will not just lay back and watch some wonderful egalitarian society rise.

I think we need to take mass action NOW, while we (maybe) still can. Then, when we create a new social structure, I'm suggesting that building that new, revolutionary society should include this mandatory service.

We'll have to undo all the profoundly anti-social programming that grips most of us.

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 30 2018 6:21 utc | 104

I agree with the need to be organizing now. Of course any movement worthy of the name will muster great human forces of their own accord, so there's no need to talk about "service requirements" within the context of movement culture.

As for the form of any potential future society, it's usually pointless to speculate about details since no such speculation ever turns out to be very right. I will say that the moment any society feels the need to formalize coercion, you can be sure that whatever movement generated it has died, since it evidently would no longer be able to count on the action of the vibrant movement culture.

Posted by: Russ | Jun 30 2018 9:00 utc | 105

@ Daniel who writes projections of my words that are not accurate

Please stop. You continue to confuse act with action. And you continue to not understand hat the self destruction of what we have now is necessary for its demise as well as sowing the seeds for what comes after.

Voltaire wrote and I encourage you to think more about what it means, "Act but stay apart from action."

Daniel, you bring much goodness and light to MoA and I don't want to discourage that but temper it a bit with the thought from Lao Tse, "The way that can be named is not the real way."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 30 2018 19:17 utc | 106

psychohistorian. I do not mean to misstate things you've written here. As I've posted numerous times, you and I agree on both the major problems/issues of the day, and the ultimate solution.

If you have any thoughts on how to establish that just social order, please offer them.

Either way, I'l stop describing at least my interpretation of what you've written. Peace and Love. :-)

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 1 2018 0:13 utc | 107

@ Daniel with
"
If you have any thoughts on how to establish that just social order, please offer them.
"

Great prelude to my question of MoA barflies

Recently, at least two commenters as I recall listed 4 rules/truths/?? from I think the Hopi Indians that went something like

1.. Show up
2. Be present
3. Tell the truth
4. Don't own the result....or something like that

I resonate with those thoughts and want to find the link to such and am not doing so. Would the offers of those comments please come back with better background please and thank you.......I have been spreading this around, was challenged for a link and here I am having not "easily" found such.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 1 2018 0:30 utc | 108

@108 psychohistorian

I don't know who the other person was, but it was I who offered that 4-part Hopi slogan. I said at the time I had only heard this, so I can't say how accurate it is - i.e. I don't have it sourced directly from the Hopi.

What I heard was:
-Show up.
-Be alert.
-Tell the truth.
-Don't be attached to the result.

It's the same as yours, and one could even prefer your choice of words.

A friend quoted this at me decades ago, and it stuck, because of course it is supremely wise. It's as actionable as the Tao. And in its fourth plank, it hits the mystic vision of all the disciplines. I honestly don't think you should feel at a disadvantage if you can't provide a link. It doesn't have to have come from the Hopi to be true.

Either a person understands this universal encouragement to accurate living in this world and universe - sometimes known as being a true warrior - or a person doesn't, in my view.

Krishna told this same thing to Arjuna in the Baghavad Gita. One reads the entire drama, and takes away that message - don't be attached. The Buddha in his Four Noble Truths explained the same thing as the cause of misery - that the universe of phenomena is transient, and we cling to the hope for permanence, and this is why we are always uneasy, and nothing for us ever feels complete.

We seek continually, we sentient beings, to explain the absolute using relative terms. Seems like even a tiny bit of logic will show the impossibility of this. In the Buddhist teachings, I have found great comfort because Buddhism is entirely on terms with the relative truth and the absolute truth. It's important to be able to discern the difference.

~~

Not to leave the reader hanging: the absolute can be experienced, and that experience can be alluded to and even guided towards using relative measures such as thinking and concepts - in fact, this could be called the best use of thinking of concepts, to draw to the experience of the absolute. But the absolute cannot be captured and held inside the relative. And the attempt do so is the cause of all misery, and a great feature of almost all comment threads.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 1 2018 2:59 utc | 109

@108 psychohistorian

I made a full response but it seems to have disappeared.

In brief - I offered that 4-step once. I got it from a friend years ago. I don't have it sourced from the Hopi directly, only at third hand.

My thought is - why would anyone need a link? To what? They either recognize the simple truth of what it says or they don't.

Although, to be sure, that fourth plank is something to work on for an entire lifetime ;)

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 1 2018 3:13 utc | 110

Just a thought on what's going on in the U.S.: America, karma's a bitch named Trump and you all deserve every bit of it for being arrogant, ignorant hypocrites with yuge double standards.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 1 2018 3:16 utc | 111

@ Grieved with his response to my request for link

I am not the one asking for a link and I agree and have acted/absorbed without one. It is is for one of the connected younger folks that wants to share it and simply asked. I hope to find the origin being Hopi as I have great respect for the natives in North/South America.

Getting hit by a truck has given me some impetus/movement on the 4th plank but I don't suggest it as a path to enlightenment for others

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 1 2018 3:34 utc | 112

Circe @ 110: Think I agree with your comment. There's and old saying that " you get the kind of Govt. you deserve."

And this U$A, where I live, deserves every bit of DJT and his band of merry cretins, for the way we've conducted our affairs, and the misery inflicted on millions around the globe, purely for the sake of increased riches for the already rich..

Posted by: ben | Jul 1 2018 4:54 utc | 113

All issues we discuss at MoA seem to revolve around the political mafia (aka "the establishment", "the borg", etc.) that runs Western governments.

Direct democracy via "Blockchain Enabled Voting" (BEV) seems to be the best way to end the vise-grip that "the establishment" holds:

Traditionally, the authorities organize the elections and the process is closed, centralized and from top to bottom. The BEV is the opposite. The process is managed by people and is transparent, decentralized and bottom-up. While participation in traditional elections reinforces state authority, participation in the BEV imposes the supremacy of the people. From this perspective, it should not be surprising how the links between the BEV and the transitions to one are raisedmore [sic] direct, decentralized and bottom-up democracy.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 1 2018 15:19 utc | 114

For anyone that is interested in learning more, it's easy to find info about "blockchain voting" on the internet. Here's another one:

Blockchain voting still isn’t perfect or ready for primetime yet. However, it’s likely to be a massive change in democracy once it does reach legitimacy. Making voting easier and more transparent will create a more engaged electorate.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 1 2018 15:24 utc | 115

@ Grieved with the fuller response to my request for Hopi truths link

Nicely stated and fully sent to the requester who was thankful for it

namaste

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 1 2018 19:24 utc | 116

Have we not seen enough manipulation of the internet to make us extremely skeptical of online voting? As I mentioned earlier, “e-Estonia” is already creating this internet of every things including voting, as the article posted by jackrabbit @114 on Blockchain voting notes. (Later quotes all from that article).

The program underway is to give every citizen a bio-ID card. That card will be used for every transaction and record. Eventually, no transactions will be possible without a valid and approved card. Which means that, should whomever controls the internet choose to “disappear” someone, their card can be nullified.

Just like the “social score” system being created in China, the holder of that card can be prevented from boarding a train, buying food, getting medicine, etc. etc. etc.

I’m not a theist, and certainly not a believer in the genocidal desert god and his bad acid trip book, Revelations, but this sure does sound like that “Mark of the Beast” stuff.

“… blockchain-enabled e-voting… allows them to keep a copy of the voting results.”

Here in the US, widespread acknowledgement that our computer voting machines are easily rigged has led some politicians to propose legislation that requires those machines to spit out receipts that the voter may check to make sure it duplicates the voter’s choices.

But that’s BS. What matters is what the black box is recording, and it is impossible for anyone to know if it’s recording votes accurately. And that’s just on the individual level. How does an entire district know that everyone else’s votes are tallied accurately?

Well, the author correctly observes, “In both the BEV and paper elections, the use of secret voting booths is the only guarantee against fraud.” But then goes on to address the issue of accurate tallying by suggesting, “a code links each ballot to a personal voice contained in an electoral register.”

So now, whomever has the key can know exactly how each individual voted on each issue/candidate. How intimidating is that?

And again, even with this, how do voters know that other voters’ ballots were tallied accurately? Maybe we can log onto some system and enter our personal code and see if the black box remembers to tell us it recorded our votes as we cast them.

But there is still no way to know if those votes were actually tallied accurately.

e-Estonia is already doing this. At the very least, we should see how that works for several election cycles. I have little confidence from what I’ve read so far… but much concern. Especially when the author suggests: “..election results could automatically trigger the implementation of electoral promises, investment choices or other decisions that affect the organizational aspect.”

So, the beautiful machine can tell us how we each individually meant to vote, but has already begun implementing what it says we as an electorate voted for. What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: Daniel | Jul 2 2018 3:03 utc | 117