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May 20, 2018
The MoA Week In Review and Open Thread 2018-25

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

Yesterday I planned to write about the FBI spy who tried to infiltrate the Trump campaign. But the Syria piece took longer than anticipated. Now Glenn Greenwald beat me to it:

    The FBI Informant Who Monitored the Trump Campaign, Stefan Halper, Oversaw a CIA Spying Operation in the 1980 Presidential Election

The Intercept should not have used "monitored". Prof. Stefan Halper, a man with deep CIA and MI6 connections, spied on the Trump campaign for the FBI. He wasn't an informant, he was an operator. Chuck Ross of the Daily Caller reported the story on March 25 and was the first to name Halper. Larouche Pub and the American Thinker also ran the story and expanded it further.

After the Daily Caller report came out the FBI tried to hide the name of its spy, telling Congress that revealing the name would endanger the man as well as other 'informants' and secret investigations. The main stream media played along and the anti-Trump 'resistance' feigned outrage that anyone would attempt to look into this. But the name was out there all along for everyone to see, as was the whole story.

Greenwald concludes:

Whatever else is true, the CIA operative and FBI informant used to gather information on the Trump campaign in the 2016 campaign has, for weeks, been falsely depicted as a sensitive intelligence asset rather than what he actually is: a long-time CIA operative with extensive links to the Bush family who was responsible for a dirty and likely illegal spying operation in the 1980 presidential election. For that reason, it’s easy to understand why many people in Washington were so desperate to conceal his identity, but that desperation had nothing to do with the lofty and noble concerns for national security they claimed were motivating them.

Amen.

Use as open thread …

Posted by b on May 20, 2018 at 15:22 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Re: the Skripal, I was under the impression that D-notices were not strictly speaking compulsive but merely admonitory under UK law. Is my impression incorrect?

Posted by: WJ | May 21 2018 19:29 utc | 101

Zanon @101,
My theory is that “Philip Cross” is a SCL Group “behavioral…[and] social change” program that is funded by and aims to serve an overlapping set of private and public UK clients, including elements of the media, intelligence, and military apparatus. Here is SCL Group’s stated self-description from its official webpage:
“SCL Group provides data, analytics and strategy to governments and military organizations worldwide. For over 25 years, we have conducted behavioral change programs in over 60 countries & have been formally recognized for our work in defense & social change.”

Posted by: WJ | May 21 2018 20:04 utc | 102

83 – Don, I’ll just give one example; that of the “Global Gag Rule” that withholds federal funds from international NGOs that provide or give information on abortions.
Come to think of it, don’t be surprised if a derivation of the South Carolina bill that outlaws any negativity toward Jews and Israel is similarly made official policy of the U.S.

Posted by: Bart Hansen | May 21 2018 20:42 utc | 103

B_the_Prisoner @7–
Back when I was allowed to comment at CommonDreams.org as EnemyofWar, there was another there who used Patrick McGoohan’s The Prisoner image for his avatar and delighted in being addressed by me as #6. We discussed the similarity of actual Psyops with those made for TV and their relationship to politics. It seems we have several different #2s flailing about miserably–May & Trump–trying to put one over on #6: Putin. Although, it would seem Sergie Skripal is our contemporary #6 if we follow the script.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 21 2018 22:19 utc | 104

FUNNY STUFF
“So to recap, an ex-spy who had been retired and strategically irrelevant for years was reportedly poisoned by the Kremlin with Novichok, a scary Russian-sounding word which refers to a group of extremely deadly and fast-acting nerve agents that start shutting down the body’s muscles and respiratory system within 30 seconds to two minutes. Except in the case of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia it was several hours with a leisurely stroll, a meal, and beers in between. The poison was placed in Yulia Skripal’s suitcase. Actually no, they got that wrong, it was the air vents in their car. Wait, no, that doesn’t work either. Maybe it was administered via weaponized miniature drone! Wait, no, it was the family’s car door handle. Actually, scratch that, it was the front door of the house. Definitely the front door of the house. We’re absolutely sure. Either that or Sergei Skripal’s favorite Russian cereal. They were given 100g of Novichok. Wait, no, that’s ridiculous, we retract that. Okay, maybe we have no idea what happened. Oh hey, their pets were completely unaffected by the poison. Let’s incinerate them.”
More at https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2018/05/21/caitlin

Posted by: Penelope | May 21 2018 22:27 utc | 105

Grieved @44–
An excellent introduction to Mao, Chou, and other leading members of CPC is Edgar Snow’s Red Star Over China, published in 1936. It can be found in used trade paper for @$4, or in most college libraries.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 21 2018 22:36 utc | 106

Posted by: Zanon | May 21, 2018 3:23:54 PM | 101
Yes, check the link on previous page @ post #70. Caitlin Johnstone extends on the work done by Craig Murray. George Galloway has offered a £1000 ransom for the public outing of Phillip Cross so that he can go legal.

Posted by: MadMax2 | May 21 2018 22:37 utc | 107

Thanks, MadMax2 @70.
I don’t recall if I’ve ever relayed on MoA why I’ve been skeptical of Wikipedia for more than a decade. Back in about 2005, when I first became aware of the site, it sounded like a great idea. I noticed it had very few entries about sailboats, and since I’m a lifelong sailor who’d worked in the industry on and off for some 3 decades, I signed in as an editor and began making sailboat entries.
I noticed that my entry on one particular boat had been edited with false information added. Since I knew both the designer and builder of those boats (only about 150 were ever built, just 1/2 hour’s drive from my home), I produced citations and reedited. Again, it was changed back to the false information. This went on for some weeks, with my ultimately realizing that the false edits were being posted sometimes within minutes of mine.
I grew frustrated and gave up. After all, what could be more trivial than a sailboat, and I had a life to live and much bigger fish to fry. But I never really trusted Wikipedia after that.
Then a few years later, Stephen Colbert (on his original Colbert Report when he still seemed to have a moral compass) picked up the torch. He mocked Wikipedia as “the democratization of truth.” In his role as fake “conservative,” he made the absurd claim that the African elephant population had quadrupled in the past decade, and suggested his fans (“the Colbert Nation”) go to Wikipedia and make that bit of “truthiness” a Wiki-Fact.
They did. And so, the miraculous recovery of that species became “true” (even as the actual numbers of those magnificent creatures plummeted year after year). Eventually, Wikipedia made a public statement about why they had to end the general public’s ability to edit their African Elephant entry.
And what powerful body could have cared about a 24’ long sailboat? Today, we know that corporations, national bodies, intelligence agencies and “special interest groups” of all sorts employ staffs to monitor and edit specific Wikipedia entries of great importance.
At this point, believing ANYTHING in Wikipedia requires as much blind faith as believing the universe is 6,000 years old. No scholarly body accepts Wikipedia entries for citations. Some professors I know tell their students that the only valid use of Wikipedia is to check out the citations for any given entry and read the source pieces.
Unsurprisingly, some of those sources are themselves unreliable, and often the source doesn’t even state what the Wiki editor has written.

Posted by: Daniel | May 21 2018 23:19 utc | 108

Jackrabbit @89
Staff of both Bill Clinton and Donald Trump reported overhearing a phone call between those two longtime friends, weeks before Trump announced his run. Allegedly, Slick Willy gave The Donald pointers on what audience Trump should target and how.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bill-clinton-called-donald-trump-ahead-of-republicans-2016-launch/2015/08/05/e2b30bb8-3ae3-11e5-b3ac-8a79bc44e5e2_story.html?utm_term=.6449c4761f55

Posted by: Daniel | May 22 2018 0:02 utc | 109

@madmax, zanon, wj and daniel…
i had missed madmax post @70 but i did post the craigmurray site for others interested in this story @90..
i tend to see it like wj -philip cross is the scl group, or if not that – wikipedia is on the direct tap for gov’t money to pay for the propaganda they are providing and will do it however they have to…
daniel – thanks for the story and confirmation on wikipedia.. this topic of wikipedia has come up over the years at moa… it is nice to see craig and caitlan and others trying to break it down for many more to see..

Posted by: james | May 22 2018 0:08 utc | 110

From Greenwald’s Intercept article:

The NYT described the FBI informant as “an American academic who teaches in Britain” and who “made contact late that summer with” George Papadopoulos (…)

From FBI’s “STATEMENT OF THE OFFENSE” wrt Papadopoulos:
14. On or about April 26, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met the Professor for breakfast at a London hotel. During this meeting, the Professor told the defendant PAPADOPOULOS that he had just returned from a trip to Moscow where he had met with high level Russian government officials. The Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS that on that trip he (the professor) that the Russians had obtained “dirt” on then-candidate Clinton. The Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS, as defendant PAPADOPOULOS later described o the FBI, that “They [the Russians] have dirt on her”; “the Russians had emails of Clinton”; “they have thousands of emails.”

At this time, Papadopoulos was an official member of Trump’s campaign team.
I fail to see how Greenwald’s article in any way impugns the “OFFENSE” in FBI’s document, nor how it can be claimed there was no collusion. Emails above were the Podesta emails.

Posted by: jdmckay | May 22 2018 0:15 utc | 111

90% of Wikipedia’s medical entries are inaccurate, say experts!
Wikipedia vs Peer-Reviewed Medical Literature for Information About the 10 Most Costly Medical Conditions

Posted by: Daniel | May 22 2018 0:18 utc | 112

@112 jdmckay.. where is the greenwald article so i can understand what he is saying about it? i am curious..

Posted by: james | May 22 2018 0:41 utc | 113

James@114
It’s the article B linked to and discussed here.

Posted by: jdmckay | May 22 2018 0:46 utc | 114

hopehely @ 48
Thanks for the feedback. Added much needed context to the discussion.

Posted by: paulmeli | May 22 2018 0:55 utc | 115

Pic worth 1000 words https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdpPPKhV0AEsoxg.jpg

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | May 22 2018 1:22 utc | 116

@102 WJ
D Notice
According to dnotice.org.uk, this instrument is “voluntary”. In my whole life, and with some familiarity with British legal and political practice, I have never once heard of a D notice being flouted. I’ve never heard of a court case challenging a D notice. In the culture of Britain and its Fleet Street whores, as I understand it, a D notice is a warning – a threat not being necessary.
Even some of the great “journalists” of decades past such as Chapman Pincher of the Express, would honor such a notice. The difference is that he would say that one was in effect. It appears that this modern crop don’t even feel magisterial enough to do that.
~~
Having written all that, I decided to check on Pincher. There’s a great story, in his obituary by the Independet, about how he and his editor defied a D Notice. Note from the story how rare this is, and also note – not from the story – that the UK security services were trying very hard to bring down the Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, which may explain why this “democratic” rebellion against the security state was fed to Pincher in the first place: Chapman Pincher: Investigative journalist whose scoops on defence and espionage rattled the British government

His best-known scoop came the following year, in what was called “the D-Notice affair”. In February 1967 the Express published a story of Pincher’s under the front-page banner headline: “Cable Vetting Sensation”. In it, he revealed that thousands of private cables and telegrams sent from Britain were systematically scrutinised by the Ministry of Defence. The publication of such sensitive information was normally inhibited by a voluntary procedure under which newspaper editors would agree to hold back if the Defence Ministry issued a D-Notice (D for Defence), certifying that the proposed article would compromise the nation’s security. The system was then run by an ex-soldier, Colonel Sammy Lohan. Before writing the cable-vetting story Pincher, lunched with Lohan and asked him if publication was barred by a D-Notice. Lohan conceded that strictly it was not, but asked him not to publish anyway.
Pincher and his editor, Derek Marks, decided to defy that request, despite a late-night phone call to the newspaper’s proprietor, Sir Max Aitken, from the Foreign Secretary, George Brown. The Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, was furious. He told the Commons the next day that the article was sensationalist and inaccurate and in breach of two D-Notices. He instituted an inquiry by a committee of privy councillors under Lord Radcliffe, who reported four months later that no D-notices had been breached by the story. The Government then issued a White Paper defending its position .

Posted by: Grieved | May 22 2018 1:34 utc | 117

@115 jdmckay.. thanks… i must be spacing out… i was half asleep most yesterday when i first looked at this thread..
i agree with you @112… greenwalds article is about taking the nyt and etc down a few pegs for claiming the identity of halper was top secret and couldn’t be revealed… his article completely skips over the importance of what this means in the greater scheme of things and tries to divert the readers attention to how the msm is fake.. as b rightly points out “He wasn’t an informant, he was an operator” but there is no mention of any of that in greenwalds article.. it almost looks like greenwalds article is giving cover to the whole mueller investigation which looks increasingly like it was a set up from obama admin / cia / fbi /m16 from the beginning… of that nothing of note in the intercept…

Posted by: james | May 22 2018 2:20 utc | 118

Grieved #118,
Thank you. That is all very fascinating, and leaves me more confused than I was at the outset. If a D-notice is voluntary, then the near unanimous deference shown to it by the UK media over the years is quite astounding, and suggests to me a culture of journalism even more captured by and deferential to the state than we have in the US, which notwithstanding the recent turn taken by the Guardian and the increasing clumsiness of the BBC I had thought to be quite impossible. Well you learn something new every day.
A cursory glance at the “History” section of the d-notice site you provide reveals that the thing if not the name got rolling in 1912 in the run-up to WWI. I wonder how many other European “liberal” presses underwent a similar constriction of freedom as a result of the Great War. Probably most. And of course being a student of Bernays and Sinclair I am under no illusion that the Western press has ever been anything else than a mouthpiece of oligarchic interest. Still, I am often surprised–as in the case of the D-notice– to learn just how overt and homogeneous the press’s capitulation (self-interested enabling, really) can be.

Posted by: WJ | May 22 2018 2:24 utc | 119

James @119,
You describe the classic limited hangout tactic of pursuing the lesser scandal to obfuscate the much bigger one. At least this tells us that some VIPs consider the activity of the CIA operative Halper against the Trump campaign to be a legitimately big deal. That Greenwald buries the lead on this one tells you that the lead takes you dangerously close to the heart of the matter…

Posted by: WJ | May 22 2018 2:30 utc | 120

jdmckay @112: That “14.” reads like entrapment. Was that the professor’s assignment, to introduce the Russian connection to the most naive member of Trump’s staff?

Posted by: fairleft | May 22 2018 2:45 utc | 121

Posted by: Daniel | May 21, 2018 7:19:29 PM | 109
(24 foot yacht & wiki disinfo)
Interesting story. What’s the name of the boat in question, and the nature of the disinfo?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 22 2018 3:11 utc | 122

James #119,
Have you read this? (I am breaking up the link.) It’s the heavily redacted write up of SCL’s Project DUCO run between May-December 2013 on study of effective techniques to change behavior patterns in target audience. Thought you’d dig it if you didn’t already know about it. It’s relevance to the broader Wikipedia discussion is obvious.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/389795/response/975478/attach/3/
FOI%202017%2003434%2020170508%20Rpt.pdf

Posted by: WJ | May 22 2018 3:22 utc | 123

@124 wj.. thanks.. i hadn’t seen it before… it seems like there is a lot of money from the gov’t for these top secret studies on how to influence people thru propaganda.. i don’t doubt chunks of the msm is in on the it too., not to mention the intercept looks like they are hoping to be a part of it as well..

Posted by: james | May 22 2018 4:31 utc | 124

Seattle is all goo-goo gah-gah about the new $125 a head employee tax on Big Corp and how it’s ‘Going to Save the City’! WINNING!!
Nobody told the saps, the City is broke, and this will all go to City employee pensions for life.
Nobody told the poor saps Trump is flying in 1,125,000 H-visa scabs this year, each one handed an American’s job as they get off the plane, a motel room key and a rental car. You, America, get the pink slip and IEU.
Nobody told the poor saps Trump is gonna sign another $1.5T Omnibus Debt Bill in September, that the USA is going down like a rock, even after Congress voted to loot the rest of our SS and MC surplus.
By the time Trump packs his bags on 2020, fully 100% of our health and human services funds will be diverted to paying interest-only FOREVER to the Private Fed Bank Globalists, and UniParty Mil.Gov and Pentagon MIC will burn through the rest of $5,000B a year, THAT WE AIN’T GOT!!
We are dead busted hotdog-eating opiod-sniffing hillbilly broke. This is the New American Century Christian Holocaust!! Right here, right now.

Posted by: Chipnik | May 22 2018 4:33 utc | 125

Hoarswhisperer @123. I’m thrilled that you’re interested. Are you a sailor? It’s the Moore 24. The misinformation regarded the origin of the design. George Olson got the rig off of a Cal 20 that had been wrecked at the Santa Cruz Harbor entrance, and decided to design and build the fastest possible “beer can” racer he could put under that rig. By “rig” I mean mast, boom and sails.
So George built a boat he named “Grendel” that was indeed the fastest boat anywhere near its size. Then, Ron Moore got the mold Grendel had been made inside and stuck a house jack into it to give her a bit more bean (width) to make the boat stand up to its sail better (“Stiffness”). It worked magnificently (though the boat(s) ended up being asymmetrical).
It worked so well that someone wanted Ronnie to build him one. Then someone else. Then a few more. and became known as the Moore 24, which is still my favorite sailboat. George and Ron and Bill Lee changed EVERYTHING sailing-wise with their “fast is fun” “ultralight” sailboats.

Posted by: Daniel | May 22 2018 5:50 utc | 126

So I am providing a ZH link to some propaganda and then the text of the first comment that refutes the posting….grin
The Baltic States Ask The US For A Bigger Military Presence On Their Soil
The comment
”
Debugas Tue, 05/22/2018 – 02:03 Permalink
i live in Lithuania – one of the baltic states
every single day we are bombarded with propaganda that russians are going to attack us so we need to buy more weapons and invite more NATO troops in.
Nobody believes that.
in 1990 total population of Lithuania was 3.6 mln today it is less than 3 mln
That is the reality – enemy number one is poverty
”

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 22 2018 6:54 utc | 127

And here is another ZH link where this time the author is speaking truth to power
The Friendly Mask Of The Orwellian Oligarchy Is Slipping Off
The quote
”
The real currency of this world is not backed by gold, nor by oil, nor by bureaucratic fiat, nor even by direct military might. No, the real currency of this world is narrative, and the ability to control it. The difference between those who rule this world and those who don’t is that those who rule understand this distinction and are sufficiently sociopathic to exploit it for their own benefit.
Power only exists where it exists because of the stories that humans agree to tell one another. The idea that government operates a certain way, that money operates a certain way, these things are purely conceptual constructs that are only as true as people pretend they are. Everyone could agree tomorrow that Donald Glover is the undisputed King of America and the new official US currency is old America Online trial CDs if they wanted to, and since that was the new dominant narrative it would be the reality. Everyone could also agree to create a new system which benefits all of humanity instead of a few sociopathic plutocrats. The only thing keeping money and government moving in a way that benefits our current rulers is the fact that those rulers have been successful in controlling the narrative.
”

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 22 2018 7:10 utc | 128

ph@129
That’s Caitlin Johnstone. She’s a good one.

Posted by: WJ | May 22 2018 7:24 utc | 129

– The president of South Korea should get the Nobel Peace Prize, NOT Trump.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/05/22/moon-trump-kim-jong-un-korea-218413

Posted by: Willy2 | May 22 2018 21:52 utc | 130

@129 ph It’s called The Matrix, that’s what the movie was about, controlling mass perception…

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | May 23 2018 0:24 utc | 131

64 After Trump’s Red Bolshevik NYC Mafiya, of which Jared Kushner is Chief RB Operator to both Jewish Republic of Isreal-Zion and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia-Wahhabistan, had Trump do the Sword Dance and Wish Upon a Dying Star of Satan Ceremony, PMbS was encouraged, like Cheney encouraged Saddam to invade Kuwait, to stage a Palace Putsch, liberate $100Bs and put it in a NYC bank vault, lol, right next to the Ukraine State Bulliin, which is right next to the Libya State Bullion, then happy PMbS became, secure in his belief the West loved him, became Nasserized by Mossad, which has the key to PMbSs vault. The Prince is in pieces in nitric acid in a blue poly barrel somewhere near a refinery, to hide the stench.

Posted by: Chipnik | May 23 2018 3:28 utc | 132

93 You’ll have to explain to US slow folks how Trump increasingbthe Mil.Gov budget by +15%, biggest increase in human history, followed by cutting Corporate Tax Revenue to pay for it, by the biggest cuts in human history, then putting Wall Street on your Left Hand and Luciferian Pentagon on your Right Hand, then phoning it in from yourv24k toilet bowl, while your NeoCon Crusader apparatchiks plan WW3 to cover for your ABJECT sellout to China Inc, as you merily cut health and human services in MASSIVE ‘structural adjustments’ that no media dare name, you’ll have to explain how that’s ‘a good thing’, and do it without referring to Tinkerbell or Unicorns.

Posted by: Chipnik | May 23 2018 3:43 utc | 133

109 Reddit also accepts SPONSORING absurd articles such as ‘Supreme Court Blocks CA Label Ban Against Pure-As- Driven-Snow Monsanto RoundUp!
There are pkenty of /r subreddits where the editor is pushing false demogoguery, then you’ll read the clear Call and Response propaganda method perfected by Hugh Downes in his successful informercials, decades ago.
I could explain at length that 9/11 was an inside job, with physics, aeronautics and structural engineering gleaned from professional colleagues, and rephrased in non-CALP language, but b here would prolly redact it.
I’ve got my bugout bag, keep my tools in my rig with a full tank of gas, and know where there’s an unguarded gravel road into Canada, for when the Trump ‘bust out’ goes belky up, and the banks declare a holiday.
But post that End of USA online, and you’re a crackpot nut. EVERYTHING online is crackpot nuts. A galatic black hole of crackpot nuts. Terra Incognuto. There be Nutbars.

Posted by: Chipnik | May 23 2018 3:59 utc | 134

– “Iraq’s repudiation of America & Iran”
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/iraqs-nationalist-repudiation-of-america-and-iran/
Interesting article although I don’t fully agree.
– The influence of Iran will remain (very) large but Sadr simply won’t do everything Teheran demands.
– Al Sadr didn’t fight US troops. It was the US troops in Iraq that fought for the shiites (and Al Sadr was the leader of the most important shiite group).
– If Sadr wants to win over the iraqi sunnis then he also has to improve the relationship with Saudi Arabia who supports the iraqi sunnis.
– If Sadr is able to improve relationship with the Kurds then that will hurt the relationship between Israel and those same Kurds.
It’s going to be VERY interesting to see how the situation in Iraq will develop.

Posted by: Willy2 | May 23 2018 16:08 utc | 135

I came to MoA today in anticipation of seeing a post from b on the latest chapter of the ongoing UK Penny Dreadful known as the Skripal Saga. BBC’s May 23 6pm TV News bulletin began with a brazenly stage-managed non-interview with an attractive, apparently healthy young woman who looked a lot like Yulia Skripal.
The segment is a few seconds short of 4 minutes long but raises more questions than it answers, question No. 1 being “If Yulia hopes to return to Russia, why didn’t Mrs May’s Ratfuckers invite a (supervised) Russian news outlet to record her ‘statement’ and film her, instead of BBC & Reuters?”
I’m not expecting a rapid response from b on this development because almost everything about it is contradictory and hard to believe. One rather obvious defect (in the BBC report) is that, after Yulia’s brief piece-de-camera, BBC ‘reporter’ Daniel Sandford spends more screen-time that Yulia got embellishing and superimposing a verbose ‘explanation’ upon her statement.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 24 2018 4:43 utc | 136

Posted by: Grieved | May 21, 2018 11:27:16 AM | 87
Daily Mail for some reason is doing its job.
Reuters has now produced something that has the look and feel of a hostage video.
Telegraph reports on Sergei Skripal still being in the spy business.
What is not talked about in British media is that the accusation of the British government that “Russia did it” is not based on proof.

Posted by: somebody | May 24 2018 5:43 utc | 137

Is Yulia Skripal this generations Patty Hearst with a large case of government induced Stockholm Syndrome?
I swear the Hollywood is behind the scenes of this Wag the Dog perfidy because it reads like sick soap opera that is all they are good at.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24 2018 6:17 utc | 138

– New US attacks on syrian military bases ? A german newspaper reported this today (may 25, 2018) but has anyone else more news/details ?

Posted by: Willy2 | May 24 2018 6:44 utc | 139

Posted by: Grieved | May 21, 2018 9:34:09 PM | 118 with
“Even some of the great “journalists” of decades past such as Chapman Pincher of the Express”
You do realise that Chapman Pincher was either a salaried agent, direct employee of MI5 or at the very least an expenses only ‘agent of influence’ Grieved?
The one time he published news subject to a D Notice as part of the aristo and wannabe aristos effort to kick off a coup against the democratically elected Labour Government of Harold Wilson, Pincher was acting on instruction from MI5. I suspect you do hence the quotation marks around journalist.
Pincher was one of the first examples of the non-journalism which is rife around the world nowadays. He rarely had to write his own stories MI5 and on occasion the SIS (aka MI6) would pass Pincher press releases whereupon he would get them published under his byline.
IMO he was a dog. The evidence against Roger Hollis was slim, purely circumstantial and full of holes, and ‘evidence’ for the egregious attempt to stitch up Harold Wilson was non-existent, a disgrace to the newspaper which made a huge furor over pretending Pincher had operated without permission, when in fact they encouraged him to violate the D-notice in their weak arsed try to bring the Wilson government down.
Those were different times but the thing which really offends me about all this is that unlike Mosley, the Duke of Windsor et al who actively worked to make england an adjunct of Nazi Germany but got forgiven post the euro war, chaps such as Tom Driberg who never committed any acts of what a normal person would regard as treason didn’t. They didn’t ever do anything that could endanger the lives of their compatriots. The worst that, for example Tony Blunt did was to ensure that the USSR was kept in the intelligence loop in the early 1930’s when Soviet support of Spain’s elected government showed the USSR to be the only state actually risking blood and treasure to stop the nazi menace, and later after Operation Barbarossa when Churchill’s duplicity had the englanders claiming the USSR as allies, but then denying those allies access to any useful intelligence.
Blunt, Burgess, MacLean and Philby plus a host of other lesser known englanders leaked information to the USSR to ensure that their ally was as well informed as possible.
The USSR had far superior intelligence gained via the Switzerland based ‘Red Orchestra’, but Joe was notoriously distrustful of spies. Having been one himself he knew that their was much bullshit (aka chickenfeed) and drunken meandering from ‘agents’ even when they weren’t deliberately feeding nonsense (aka eyewash) from the other side.
A classic example of this occurred just before Kursk; the highly placed agent in the Nazi structure who many believe was Herman Goering, supplied the complete order of battle plus the date and time of the proposed Axis attack. Joe refused to give it credence until he got almost exactly the same stuff from england – presumably acquired via enigma. The englanders position was “Let the Soviets face 50 + divisions – we cannot run the risk of Germany working out we have all their codes”.
Blunt, Philby & co leaked their stuff; the Soviets launched a huge artillery barrage all along the Kursk front at about an hour before dawn when the nazis were trying to assemble their many divisions prior to attack, and that was the end of the Nazis – after that day Germany and the axis were in retreat all the way back to Berlin.
So some Brits did have a hand in winning the 20th century euro war – but no thanks to Churchill & co, the englander heroes of Kursk were all hounded to death.
Hitler and co never worked out or even considered that their codes had been broken, even tho that was the reason Winnie the drunk claimed USSR shouldn’t get this intelligence.
Most people are unaware of how heavily their nation’s agencies are penetrated by their own spies. As a public servant I have seen it on uncountable occasions and while I was in the ‘big smoke’ last week I talked to my brother who has just retired as a journalist with the state owned TV service, he told me some real horror stories about how he would get lumped with incapable camera or sound crew on, say the 2003 Iraq invasion where he refused to be ’embedded’. These types did everything within their power to prevent him from getting stories out, yet when he complained about their inefficiency & deliberate sabotage he would be told that there was no alternative, that he, a senior & respected journo would be brought home before the incompetent fuck-up. (there is a lot more detail but I better try and respect my bro’s confidence a little).
Worst of all we had a government opposed to Iraq’s invasion yet the security boys took their orders from their mates in five eyes irrespective of that wishes of the elected government.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 24 2018 7:15 utc | 140

Did you guys see what just happend, trump canceled North Korea meeting after North Korea destroy its nukes…Tremendous show of getting what you want. North Korea was getting fooled all along and now they are totally unprotected…

Posted by: Jerzy | May 24 2018 14:44 utc | 141

Trump’s letter to Kim Jong Un was made public about 9:55 AM or minutes later (EDT), and amazingly stated the reason for canceling the summit was Kim’s “anger.” Not that having not only Bolton, but Pompeo AND Pence as well declaring Korea and Kim would face “the Libya approach” to invade Korea and then kill Kim, just might make anyone angry. Even if Bolton kept saying his Libya Plan only meant that Kim would hand over all his nukes to the US, not the untidy invasion, bombing, destruction of a nation part….
Sheesh.
The entire Trump administration was way over its skis on this one. But Trump’s “negotiating” style is to bluff, bluster, then blame others for failure to win a particular “deal.”
Gee, what was it, only yesterday Trump was still saying that full obeisance to the US would result in a rich Korea and a happy Kim Jong Un??

Posted by: jawbone | May 24 2018 15:19 utc | 142

– The Trump administration still wants to “rescue” the summit between Trump and Kim Jung Un ? A german newspaper brought this news.

Posted by: Willy2 | May 26 2018 12:38 utc | 143

– Pence gave an interview to FOX/Faux News.(Was this the same interview that was referred to here on “Moon of Alabama” earlier ?)
http://www.newshounds.us/martha_maccallum_whitewashes_pence_libya_model_comments_scuttled_north_korea_talks_051618
The article contains some other interesting tid bits.
– Pence didn’t sound as hawkish as one John Bolton did. But he talked about complete & full denuclearization of the korean penisula. And Pence put all the blame on North Korea.
– Newshounds thinks that Trump still wants (“desperate”) to revive the plans for a summit.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/politics/trump-north-korea-canceled-summit-reaction/index.html

Posted by: Willy2 | May 26 2018 19:47 utc | 144

– Kim Jung Un held talks with the south korean premier/president today/yesterday. This is a poke in the eye (or a kick in the genitals) of Trump who seems to be “desperate” to have his meeting with Kim Jung Un.
– Whatever one thinks of the north korean government, one has to admire the skills with which the north koreans are playing on Trump’s vanity.
– Was the interview with Pence the first sign of Trump’s downfall ? I know – at least – one person who thinks that Trump won’t be president anymore at the end of 2018.

Posted by: Willy2 | May 26 2018 20:08 utc | 145

Willy2, I see Moon and Kim holding an unannounced meeting on the North Korean side of Panmunjom not so much as some personal affront to Donald Drumpf, but a message to the Korean people and the world that the two leaders have realized what a former General and US President once said:
“I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.”
~ Dwight D. Eisenhower

Posted by: Daniel | May 27 2018 2:21 utc | 146

@147 Nevertheless Trump will take it personally. Even if he wants to meet Kim halfway his advisors won’t let him.
Still I think the meeting will happen. Not much will come of it and they will agree to meet again. There is a lot going on behind the scenes.

Posted by: dh | May 27 2018 2:48 utc | 147

Today Trumpster held a full court propaganda session in the Oval Office to further his political agenda exploiting the release of Josh Holt from a Venezuelan prison. It was so nauseating, hypocritical and full of feigned and ingratiating concern and fake compassion I had to switch channels.
Venezuela and Iran are high on Trump’s regime-change through economic tyranny and destabilization agenda. Oh, and he never misses a chance to plug his fake going-nowhere success with North Korea for the benefit of the Nobel Prize committee.

Posted by: Circe | May 27 2018 5:09 utc | 148

– Agree. Moon has been working on improving the relationship with N.-Korea since his election last year. In that regard Moon deserves the Nobel peace prize far more than Trump.
– There’re also have been a number of americans who don’t like an increase of tensions on the korean peninsula. But in the Trump administration there’re still a number of neocons who don’t like a relaxation of tensions with e.g. N.-Korea. (think: John Bolton).
– Who will prevail ? Although the prospects for peace in that region are much better than they have been in years/decades I am not convinced that the neocons and the military industrial complex in the US will acknowledge defeat and give up the fight. They still will try to do everything to derail these encouraging developments. Including a meeting between Trump & Kim Jung Un. But I only can speculate what the future will bring. We’ll have to wait and see.
– I also think that a relaxation of tensions in the Far East will – surprisingly – weaken the position of both China and Russia. And that in turn could increase tensions in the Far East as well. Some people say that the US are a bunch of fumbling idiots but that – IMO – underestimates the US too much.

Posted by: Willy2 | May 27 2018 10:04 utc | 149

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