Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 02, 2018

Memo: Democrats Made Up Evidence Enabled Eavesdropping On Trump Campaign

Over the last month political enemies of U.S. President Trump and the FBI and Justice Department have desperately tried to prevent the publishing of a memo written by the Republican controlled House Intelligence Committee.

The memo (pdf) describes parts of the process that let to court sanctioned spying on the Trump campaign. The key points of the memo that was just published:

* The Steele dossier formed an essential part of the initial and all three renewal FISA applications against Carter Page.

* Andrew McCabe confirmed that no FISA warrant would have been sought from the FISA Court without the Steele dossier information.

* The political origins of the Steele dossier were known to senior DOJ and FBI officials, but excluded from the FISA applications.

* DOJ official Bruce Ohr met with Steele beginning in the summer of 2016 and relayed to DOJ information about Steele's bias. Steele told Ohr that he, Steele, was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected president and was passionate about him not becoming president.

If the above memo proves to be correct one can conclude that a Democratic front organization created "evidence" that was then used by the FBI and the Obama Justice Department to get FISA warrants to spy on someone with intimate contacts into the Trump campaign.

The Democrats as well as the FBI have done their utmost to keep this secret.

Carter Page was a relative low ranking volunteer advisor of the Trump campaign with some business contacts to Russia. He had officially left the campaign shortly before the above FISA warrant was requested.

Andrew McCabe was an FBI assistant director. A few month earlier his wife ran for a Virginia State Senate seat with the help of $700,000 she had received from Clinton allies.

The wife of DOJ official Bruce Ohr worked for Fusion GPS, the outlet hired by the Democrats to find Trump dirt. Fusion GPS hired the former British agent Steele.

The former British spy Steele had been hired by the Democratic Party via Fusion GPS to dig up dirt about Donald Trump. He came back with a package of "reports" which alleged that Trump was "colluding" with Russia or even a puppet of Putin. The content of the reports is hilarious and so obviously made up that one wonders how anyone could have treated it seriously.

Getting a FISA warrant on Carter Page meant that all his communication with the Trump campaign was effectively under surveillance of the Obama administration. While Page was no longer an official member of the campaign at the time of the warrant it is likely that he had kept contact. All internal communication that Page had access to was thereby also accessible for at least some people who tried to prevent a Trump election victory.

One must wonder if the FISA warrant and eavesdropping on Page was the only one related to the Trump campaign.

One may (like me) dislike Trump and the Republican party and all they stand for. But this looks like an extremely dirty play by the Democrats and by the Obama administration far outside of any decency and fairness. The Steele dossier is obviously made up partisan nonsense. To the use it for such a FISA warrant was against the most basic rules of a democratic system. It probably broke several laws.

There are still many questions: What was, exactly, the result of the surveillance of Carter Page and the Trump campaign? Who was getting these results - officially and unofficially?  How were they used?

I am pretty sure now that more heads of those involved will role. Some of the people who arranged the scheme, and some of those who tried to cover it up, may go to jail.

If Trump and the Republicans play this right they have practically won the next elections.

Posted by b on February 2, 2018 at 18:06 UTC | Permalink

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Disinfo link at #94, Nunes have told reporters after the release of the memo that the dossier was the main part driving behind the FBI/FISA acts against Trump.
Your article implies legitimate reasons to spy on a president but refuse to ackknowledge the elephant in the room, namely that the lead up to this spying is very much based on a controversial report paid by the opposition and involves people want to discredit and making sure Trump wouldnt win, including the very british agent.

FISA Memo Shocker: Steele Made up Russian Dossier Because He “Hated Donald Trump”

Posted by: Anon | Feb 3 2018 14:45 utc | 101

@ John Zelnicker 71
The original FISA warrant on Carter Page was issued long before the dossier was presented to the FBI. . .b . . .Dig deeper

Wrong. See my 60 above.
Jan 10, 2017: . . CNN has also learned that on December 9 [2016], Senator John McCain gave a full copy of the memos (i.e "dossier") -- dated from June through December, 2016 -- to FBI Director James Comey. McCain became aware of the memos from a former British diplomat who had been posted in Moscow. But the FBI had already been given a set of the memos compiled up to August 2016, when the former MI6 agent presented them to an FBI official in Rome, according to national security officials. here

WaPo: So what do we know about the Page warrant?
We know that it was issued on Oct. 19, 2016, according to reporting this week from The Post. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 3 2018 14:48 utc | 102

b, well brought out. However I dont think it will end on the positive note you have. I think this will just be buried somewhere. Both parties are corrupt beyond salvage, thy just serve different corporations. Effectively American democracy is a sham.I refuse to believe the American are evil, but their government is, the American people are just pawns in a kabuki theatre, they have absolutely no power even if they believe so. Money is the deciding factor in US. The best government money can buy.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 3 2018 14:57 utc | 103

@94 hey chippy

It's funny you think many here have partisan motivations except for you. Don't you want to see a return to an apolitical FBI or DOJ? This may not be possible, of course, but to see heads roll right above their white-collars pleases most of us who are already aware of your big lie that you think most aren't privy to.

The other thing is that you contradict yourself. You scream something about 9/11 and the fact that we are all sheeple being played in a silly mockumentary on D.C. directed by Stanley Kubrick, and yet, in the next breath, you link us to a msm-outlet discrediting the rethugz story and gloating about it. I smell a big, fat, disgusting rat.

As for the New Yorker piece--at the time, Russia was already pounding jihadists in Syria, undermining the NATO plan, coaxing Turkey away from the allance, and while Donald Trump was cheering the Ruskies on in his MAGA addresses. Safe to say that the FBI and a few of its political hacks at that time were starting to get desperate, eyeing DT's rallies and comparing them to attendance numbers at Hill's fem-nazi/cuck gatherings and pissing themselves. So what if they got the ball rolling on Popadouapolis a few months prior? That was probably the head start they needed to gather and dream up the Steele dossier. It doesn't matter WHEN they started their weaponized investigation, anyway. So how is that going to undo the GOP narrative?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2018 15:07 utc | 104

The FISA courts, which are secret courts, invite such manipulation. Such easy candy is irresistible. Nixon negotiated to keep Vietnam going, no consequences; Reagan colluded with the Iranians to keep Americans hostage, no consequences; Obama gave criminal banksters a pass on their trillions in fraud, no consequences. One can dislike and fear Trump's 'policies' and know that the 'Trump Empire' has been a money launderer for foreign, mostly Russian mobster/banksters and that's why he wants the investigations to stop, and still consider what the FBI did here punishable. I hope that all the criminals get punished. Start a new tradition of convicting the criminals who happen to be FBI, or DC Democrats or DC Republicans. That's what I hope, but there is no reasonable basis in fact for these naive hopes.

Posted by: StephenLaudig | Feb 3 2018 15:08 utc | 105

@100 NemesisCalling,

American "democracy" has always been a sham, was designed to be a sham, and will remain a sham until the Constitutional order is replaced. The less of the world decides to emulate "great experiments" the better for all involved, except of course the would-be ruling classes who are all literally dead weight and completely fungible.

Posted by: Jonathan | Feb 3 2018 15:16 utc | 106

Hitlary Killton will face justice soon:

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Feb 3 2018 15:17 utc | 107

Mother Jones:
President Barack Obama made it a point to assure Americans that, not to worry, there is plenty of oversight of his administration’s snooping programs. “We’ve got congressional oversight and judicial oversight,” he said Friday, referring in part to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), which was created in 1979 to oversee Department of Justice requests for surveillance warrants against foreign agents suspected of espionage or terrorism in the United States. But the FISC has declined just 11 of the more than 33,900 surveillance requests made by the government in 33 years, the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday. That’s a rate of .03 percent, which raises questions about just how much judicial oversight is actually being provided.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 3 2018 15:18 utc | 108

February clues

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Feb 3 2018 15:21 utc | 109

@99 den

I tend to agree. Doesn't matter where you are, but the little guy rarely ever gets to see the elites grovel and beg. My guess is that, being the tease Donald is, he might pardon or overlook, or send a few low-level staffers to the gallows, but no stuffed heads of big-wigs in the Oval Office. He may trade it for an end to the Russiagate thing, but I'm not even sure an end to that would benefit him, because the Dems mouthbreathing about Russia has effectively turned them into drooling victims of self-inflicted lobotomies for all to see. They are utterly frozen and lost and for Trump to end Russiagate, well that might be doing them a favor.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2018 15:22 utc | 110

@102 Jonathan

If high-level staffers get jail-time, would that change your mind? You can't fix everything at once, but at least some real punishment might send a message to stay in-line and would restore a ton of confidence to the people from a desperate lack that you lay out correctly.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2018 15:27 utc | 111

The lame-scream media has had you fooled about the Watergate:

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Feb 3 2018 15:28 utc | 112

NemesisCalling says:

Don't you want to see a return to an apolitical FBI or DOJ

while i appreciate the sentiment, i gotta wonder when that happy day was. was that after they 'wrapped up' COINTELPRO in 1971? or perhaps before the Custodial Detention Index was formed in 1939-41?

The program involved creation of individual dossiers from secretly obtained information, including unsubstantiated data and in some cases, even hearsay and unsolicited phone tips, and information acquired without judicial warrants by mail covers and interception of mail, wiretaps and covert searches. While the program targeted primarily Japanese, Italian, and German "enemy aliens", it also included some native-born American citizens. The program was run without Congress-approved legal authority, with no judicial oversight and outside of the official legal boundaries of the FBI. A person against which an accusation was made was investigated and eventually placed on the index; it was not removed until the person died. Getting on the list was easy; getting off of it was virtually impossible(wiki)

which takes us back to damn near its inception. na, i'd say they've not been apolitical pretty much since day one.

Posted by: john | Feb 3 2018 15:52 utc | 113

What is most amazing to a an European is that the "Russia did it" sticks so readily. Looking at facts and budgets and money ect. I do not understand why it is not self evident that it is the US, that is the bull in the China shop (excuse the poor pun). I suppose it is strategy, Russia being the economic weaker partner of China, but still the military Big Brother. China is interconnected with the US, but is slowly disconnecting. Russia and China are bedfellows out of need and know they cant handle the US singularly, but in unison, it is another matter. The US expects the EU to tuck in behind the US. That will not happen. The EU would have riots if it did. People here are not happy with the US and it interference and it eternal wars, we dont want more of those. We in Europe are highly suspicious of the "Russia did it" campaign, as nothing credible has yet been put forward. US intelligence agencies are not credible, they have another agenda. The russian influence on both German and French elections and British Brexit has been disproven. But the alleged American influence on Brexit has not been disproven, but has been exposed.
I as a Swedish Social Democrat, party member and all, despise not the American people , but the warmongering governments they have put in charge the last 4 decades, Oluf Palme was right when he spoke of "an infamy of a State" back in the 70 ties.
I only hope the US dissolves rather peacefully instead of with a bang. I have children too.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 3 2018 15:54 utc | 114

@109 john

Thanks. Food for thought. I wasn't positing that the FBI has ever been immune from corruption or immorality, but it seems that in those instances you list, the will of congress and the executive branch was reflected in its behavior. For better or worse, America has some pretty shitty legacies at the turn of the 20th century and around the inception of Hoover's experiment with the Federal Police. No doubt, brother. But this happening takes that paradigm into the stratosphere. The FBI went rogue from congress and THE PEOPLES' WILL. Ask anyone back in '42 if we should intern the Japs and they would most likely say, "Yes." Ask anyone today if the FBI should interfere in our elections I need to continue?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2018 16:12 utc | 115

>>>> Den Lille Abe | Feb 3, 2018 10:54:39 AM | 110

But the alleged American influence on Brexit has not been disproven, but has been exposed.

Actually, the biggest American influence on Brexit was in plain sight - it was Obama's speech about the impact of Brexit on Anglo-American relations - the day after, three of the six undecided on Brexit where I worked at the time announced in the morning after tea break that they'd now decided to vote leave.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Feb 3 2018 16:26 utc | 116

One point that has been missing: Basic banal BS: that this Memo was CLASSIFIED. That is, that the 'security' of the US was deemed potentially at stake should this secret be divulged, should transparency reign. Which reminds me of former CIA Victor Marchettit the author of The Cult of intelligence being asked about all the blacked out portions of the book, what were they about? Marchetti's answer was along the lines of "stuff that was criminal or embarrassing."

Some might deem the security of the US to be enhanced through revelations of the Memo sort.

But of course the 'security' of big players in the Deep State may very well be at risk from such disclosures.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Feb 3 2018 17:37 utc | 117

@117 robert snefjella..

the usa has given over to classifying everything it seems... everything is top secret!! it's a pile of bullshite.. meanwhile nsa and etc are snooping on everyone 24/7... nothing is private on a basic level, except when it is the gov't doing it, at which point it is classified...

Posted by: james | Feb 3 2018 18:01 utc | 118

@107 NemesisCalling,

Nope. A republic is by its very definition an oligarchy. Neither the capacity to choose one's lordship, nor the supposed quality thereof, changes the nature of the relationship, whatever contingent respite it may bring from the relationship's most abusive impositions.

Pace Federalist #63, "The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter." Not that I am opposed to the people levering up into a better position toward self-government through getting the boot off the neck momentarily, but I don't consider confidence in an odious system of rule any benefit to anyone outside the ruling classes.

Posted by: Jonathan | Feb 3 2018 18:15 utc | 119

@119 jonathan

Further centralization through the centuries of the American system is proof that it is not a case of either/or but a slippery slope tpwards blanket authoritarianism since its inception. There were good aspects on display at the beginning, but no one can argue that the current iteration isn't blasphemy, or in any case, a gross misuse of the American system (i.e. money and power outstripped the ability of poets, statesmen, and philosophers to maintain the constitutional framework).

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2018 18:23 utc | 120

@119 jonathan

I suppose at bottom we are talking about the role of statesmen in a democratic republic. Unfortunately, oligarchs are a fact of business, and their existence is not proof of a failed system. And what power would a working class have against saavy corporate-types? Little-to-none. And so I think statesmen (a la Putin) are the method towards balance in a system.

If the people are happy, the empire is working magic with the way.

I'm not sure that most people even want to publicly address the commons as to their grievances. We put our faith in statesmen to negotiate for us and fill our bellies.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2018 18:33 utc | 121


there is a difference between a government bureaucracy and the bureaucracy of a political party (DNC, RNC) and there is a difference between a US government bureaucracy and a foreign government. That is what it is at issue in the Russia investigation.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Feb 3 2018 19:31 utc | 122

b@38 Re: 'nothing burger' = Democratic talking point after release

The Democrats' damage control efforts (talking points) you listed are ones directed specifically at the American "Me? Read a whole four-page memo with big words? Just tell me what it said!" crowd. Not intended as a slur on that audience - these are my people, i.e., 'little people'. And from fly-over country here in the upper Midwest US, I can only offer what many 'little people' think about the memo's release: "What memo? Oh, that's about Russia meddling in our elections, right?"

Are us Americans really that stupid?

Den Lille Abe@110 rightfully observes, "What is most amazing to a an European is that the "Russia did it" sticks so readily. despite all the evidence that 1) Russia didn't do it, and 2) Trump's supposed Russian collaboration was manufactured by the DNC/Hillary machine - initially to cement Clinton's 'win', but has since morphed into the DNC's/Never-Trumpers' impeachment campaign. Foreign (to the US) countries have always been baffled as to why Americans are so oblivious to the truth/logic/reason.

So are us Americans really that indifferent?

Of course the memo's release seems like it should be significant to anyone outside the US, but consider the context inside the US for my 'little people'. We are under damn near 24x7 assault by any number of interests (corporate, political, media, etc.) that are constantly shouting over each other about which issue(s) should be of the utmost importance to us accompanied by dire warnings of what will happen if we do not act immediately. Shame on us for not quitting our jobs, picking the 'proper' issue (as defined by whatever special interest) and devoting our entire lives to doing something about it.

The combined effect of this torrent of pay-attention-to-me issues (and quite unintentional by special interests) is to over-saturate their audience to the point of indifference. Little people here are left with a vague but overwhelming sense of 'indifference guilt': "Why don't you bastards care about...". That's exactly why the charade of the two-party political system here works.

The evil genius of two-party oligarchies and a usurped voting process

Thankfully [/sarc], Americans can simply dump our citizenship responsibilities for controlling the government into one of two pre-defined buckets, currently Democratic or Republican. Then it's their job to pick the right people and the most important issues and fix everything if they win the ideological popularity contest, aka elections. Since political parties are corporations/clubs/tribes and technically no part of the government, they can conduct business against the will of the people in secret (racketeering) and be openly bribed with contributions. A third party fixes nothing - any and ALL political parties will be usurped as soon as they matter. Replacing one with another is as useless as getting rid of the top psychopath in any government - there are scores of lesser psychopaths that have been positioning themselves for years to take their place. You simply get a replacement psychopath.

Why this is a nothing burger for me considering the reality here

The US political parties are not mere competitors for bribes and influence. They are both an existential threat to the other. They exist in a perpetual but informal state of mutually assured destruction. They throw rocks at each other for show, but never go too far. This memo implies that a foreign agent (a corporation - the DNC) conspired to 1) game FISA (among other illegal but unprovable acts) to subvert the will of the people and influence the election, and 2) conspire to remove a lawfully-elected president through otherwise lawful processes using criminally produced fake evidence. But just like Saudi-Wahhabi fanaticism, any infidels questioning criminal actions of the party are questioning the political ideology of the party, itself. [chop]

This FISA-gaming should take the entire Democratic Party down in and of itself, right? I say, "No chance in hell of that actually happening." Why? Because both parties have enough dirt to destroy the other ones. If it ever went that far, the other party will not go silently. Mutually assured destruction. Careful escalation to bruise the other, but without enough provocation for a fatal retaliatory blow. I have to believe that even in the event of an unintended escalation and destruction of both parties as they are, the psychopaths will simply gravitate to newly created political parties. Outlaw political parties and they'll create another mechanism to control the government. They have all day to scheme against the little people and figure out ways around their own laws.

Even if the little people did attempt to fix anything here, we would instantly gravitate to the two useless tools intentionally corrupted in the US (and easily corrupted again in the future): voting and the law. Both were corrupted to insulate the U.S. government - administration, lawmaking, justice and political parties - from the will of the US little people and let special interests/oligarchs (via political parties) to manipulate the US government for their benefit. US citizens are indoctrinated to believe those two tools give them some imaginary super-powers to control the government, when the exact opposite is true. Even if those tools were perfect, you still have the party mafia controlling the little people's access to either one. Short of pitchforks, torches and well-boiled hemp rope, the parties are not impressed with the 'will of the people'.

The memo is the meatiest peace of evidence today of the party mafia/voting/law corruption, the source of damn near all evil in the US government. A clarion call to US citizens to finally pay attention and do something! And that 'something' is voting for their political party of choice and expecting the red/blue mafia elected to create laws preventing their crimes.

Memo, shmemo... It's not going to be different this time. Americans will wait for MSM to report when the red/blue mafia have fixed the government.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 3 2018 20:01 utc | 123

i see my comment finally got released @51.. that got held in the cue for a day.. oh well...

@123 paveway... it looks different to me... i read and hear what you are saying, but i think getting the fbi, cia, nsa or whoever to play footsie on a partisan level is a bad precedent.. and i think it points to an ongoing breakdown in the usa empire... correct me if i am wrong, but it just looks like the inside of the apple has been exposed to have a lot of rot in it and of needing to be put in the compost.. the apple would be the usa at this point..

Posted by: james | Feb 3 2018 20:54 utc | 124

Maybe the little people in EU don't worry much about Russia but many EU leaders sure do. Look at Hammond in the UK and the people at the top of NATO. The media there lay it on thick too just like in the US. I don't know how the average German feels about Russia these days but the further east you go in Europe the more anti-Russian they get.

Posted by: dh | Feb 3 2018 21:03 utc | 125

@DNL #114

Allow me to offer you this link about the
Russia-China Double Helix. While the paper
is three+ years old, one can now see how
precise it was at first publication.

The West has seen nothing, yet and all the
cheap theater in Western regimes serves
to distract from this fact. The Western
capitalist-militarist hegemonic model is
done for. We need to expect things to get
much worse, since the likes of the persons
(physical and corporate) will not let go
of their program without a major fight.
It will definitely not happen voluntarily.

(I posted the link to the document itself. That way you
don't have to go through any blog site.)

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Feb 3 2018 21:09 utc | 126


There is no difference really in europe, they all hate russia nowadays, thats what keep EU together - in their hatred.

Posted by: Anon | Feb 3 2018 21:25 utc | 127

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Feb 3, 2018 4:09:37 PM | 126

Thanks for this 2014 white paper. A comprehensive, detailed and footnoted review of Russia-China full spectrum cooperation and their joint goals, contributions and synergy.

The best analysis I've come across in a long time. Not focused solely on Russia's well known defensive military strength and offensive capability being shared with China, instead it shows myriad examples of long-term economic, educational and industrial alliances.

For sweetener there's some interesting speculation about the reasons for certain top-level meetings as well.

Posted by: jonku | Feb 3 2018 22:16 utc | 128

“But this looks like an extremely dirty play by the Democrats and by the Obama administration far outside of any decency and fairness….”

Yes, it certainly does “look like” that.

“There are still many questions”

Yes, there certainly are more questions. Like, why did Congress ram through the expansion of surveillance powers, easing FISA restrictions just before this memo surfaced?

Or, why did the Obama Administration act so forcefully after the election to bestow upon us such wonderful gifts as:

Creating a Ministry of Truth, knowing the CEO of Exxon would be put in charge of it.

Providing heavy weapons directly to “rebels” in Syria (including MANPADs). Just a coincidence that a Russian jet was shot down today?

Expanding powers of the NSA. Allowing NSA to provide ANY data they collect to other agencies (specifically the CIA which is not allowed to collect data inside the US).

Rule 41, allowing police/FBI to confiscate and examine any computer by claiming they’ve had malware installed without the owners’ knowledge.

Election system declared “critical infrastructure” so DHS now has authority over all elections.

But Democrats were so hysterical at the shocking news of the election of the Orange Fuhrer they’d been trained to fear and hate above all that they paid no attention. Had to knit our "Pussy Hats" and protest "Show Us Your Tax Returns" after all. Oh, and punch out people whose speech we don't like. That was such a great idea.

And since taking office, the Trump Administration has continued or expanded the NeoCon foreign policy and neoliberal economic polices of Bush II and Obama. But Trump-haters are so obsessed with RUSSIA!!! that they don’t pay attention. And Trump fans are convinced of the narrative that Trump is being forced to break every substantial campaign promise, so they are acting just like the Obama-bots of the previous 8 years by denying or defending their hero.

We are all watching the first Reality TV Show Presidency, and most refuse to consider that just like all Reality TV Shows, this one is fully scripted, with heroes and villains for we fans and detractors. Did Nikki Haley get the Red Rose? Michael Wolff seems to be backing down on that smear now.

Posted by: Daniel | Feb 4 2018 0:22 utc | 129

Awww.... Jen still believes in Constitutional Rights to privacy. That's adorable. Or did you just mean you thought the elitists still had some rights?

Because that is an interesting subplot to this "news story." Just like Angela Merkel's shock that her cell phone was tapped, and despite Trump saying in 2015 that he assumed all his phone calls were tapped, this "news story" tells we pions that even billionaire insiders are subject to the same evisceration of Rights as the rest of us.

See? Trump really is "one of us." LOL

Posted by: Daniel | Feb 4 2018 0:36 utc | 130

When a person falls over they usually realize it well in advance of hitting the ground but countries and other large groups of people don't. The downwards motion, if at all admitted to, is not identified as falling. They are suffering from a "survivor bias" created and strengthened by all the times they previously collectively by effort or luck broke their fall and managed to stay upright. That bias is in itself what ultimately makes the fall unavoidable and offers proof of the hubris.

When it happens "everybody" is surprised. These days "everybody" isn't everybody due to the internet but "everybody" is still the most frequently heard narrative.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 4 2018 6:47 utc | 131

I confess that apart from a little glance at the battle for independence and the lead up to, and fateful consequences of, the civil war, the vast majority of my consideration of amerikan history has been of the 20th and now 21st centuries.
So I cannot say that all 19th century amerikan government was always corrupt and self-serving in that "help the rich and they'll be bound to help me" sort of a way, but I can say that is definitely the case throughout the 20th century.

I'm sorry Nemesis but a study of any in-depth history of the FBI, including the hagiographic 'official' histories reveals an organisation with a corrupt political agenda since its inception.

Consider the founder J Edgar Hoover, a man who scared the bejeesus outta every 'statesman' in DC - not because he was some incorruptible paragon, but because he was as bent as fuck, using his organisation to gather dirt on every politician, wannabe politician and opinion leader in the country. Why? So he could bend them to his will when needs must.
If that meant he worried his Wednesday afternoons at the races could be disturbed by any investigation of organised crime of Italian origin, he simply stated there was "No such thing as the Mafia" and blocked any investigations, a call which allowed the deaths of a multitude of innocent citizens who were collateral damage in turf wars.

Such a statesman - his delicate bourgeois homosexualist sensibilities caused him to fear african americans, so Hoover tried to make the entire life of one peaceful activist Martin Luther King, a misery. At the same time he conspired with local law enforcement to butcher young african american activists.

The FBI has always been a politically corrupt organisation - that was what it was designed to be.
They went after Donald Trump by first of all trying to prevent his nomination, then his election, and finally discredit his prezdency.
This wasn't as many suppose, because they disagreed with his stated political goals - if only. It was simply because the politicians' masters don't trust the donald to behave in the consistent manner they require to ensure their thefts can continue uninterrupted by chance, public mood or any other circumstance.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 4 2018 7:48 utc | 132

@ Paveway IV 123

I am with you on that excellent comment.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 4 2018 7:57 utc | 133

Did any information gathered through FISA go to the Clinton campaign? Given the personal links with the personnel involved, the answer is likely yes.

If Trump was smart he would go after everyone that knew what was going on as accessories after the fact. This is a unique opportunity.

Posted by: Matt | Feb 4 2018 14:56 utc | 134

@123 ov4

Well said... and true of most western governments

Posted by: XLemming | Feb 4 2018 15:13 utc | 135

@132 deb

Thx for the thoughtful comment. I agree with most of it. I usually err on the wishful thinking side that for instance somehow America is going to get its shit together and adopt a renewed attunement to law and order and limited capacity, dulling its ability for overreach.

I think at SST, Col. Lang was asked about the historical ideological-bent of the FBI and he confirmed the the rank-and-file at the J. Edgar Hoover building are conservative. No surprise there, really. The people on the beat have to have a penchant for staying in their lane and busting illegal business activities. Being a conservative fits the bill for them. OTOH, the bigwigs like Comey clearly have revealed their outright bias and a lot of interest in this memo, I surmise, comes from naive people like myself who want these individuals brought up on charges, but fail to see the pattern of invasive and authoritarian practices of the organization at large.

Ironically, the historical fringe right in America has a similar take on the FBI as you, Deb. The incidents at Ruby Ridge and at Waco, under Clinton and Janet Reno in the 90s, defiled the image of the FBI to most of the public. It wasn't just far-righters who whinced at big brother when he rolled up the front driveway of the Davidian-compound with assault vehicles.

I would love to see a decentralized US. But the issue of interstate travel and crime was the precursor to the FBI. At bottom, its a good idea. But maybe cooperation between local states and law enforcement in the US, while keeping federal prosecutors, would be better to avoid everything you addressed. Otherwise, I don't see a way to gut the fed.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 4 2018 16:33 utc | 136

You're missing the key info the memo told us: This was a Title 1 FISA warrant. These are hard to get, but once you get on you can do surveillance on any person or group the target comes in contact with. So this warrant on Page gave them carte blanche to surveil the Trump campaign.

Remember that NSA chief Mike Rogers visited Trump a week after the election. The next day the entire Trump transition team moved to Trump's private country club. Rogers didn't tell anyone he was going there, and Clapper et al called for his firing over this visit. Obviously, Rogers told Trump that his offices and phones were bugged.

Posted by: superman | Feb 4 2018 21:06 utc | 137

Clinton associates fed information to Trump dossier author Steele, memo says

Posted by: Anon | Feb 5 2018 17:01 utc | 138

Say what?

Schiff's Latest Bizarre Claim: Russian Ads Promote 2nd Amendment "So We All Kill Each Other"

Posted by: test | Feb 6 2018 9:01 utc | 139

Late in the day, I know, but for those questioning the very idea of a 'deep state', there is an item in today's Independent indicating that former PM Blair has no doubt that it exists. In my day, it used to be called The Establishment.

Posted by: Shakesvshav | Feb 6 2018 9:23 utc | 140

Suggest you involve congressional delegation in this breaking story. It's a big story! Especially senators. oops, I forgot one of your senators is a democrat! Since when did they allow democrats in the senate! What is this world coming to. Whatever you do, don't lift your head up above the foxhole.


Posted by: ice | Feb 6 2018 12:49 utc | 141

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