Exclusive: Mugabe hails China as ‘greatest friend’ CCTV.com
12-01-2015 15:51 BJT
Full coverage: Xi Attends Paris Climate Talks, Visits Zimbabwe, S. Africa
http://english.cntv.cn/2015/12/01/VIDE1448956204453197.shtml

Posted by: OJS | Nov 15 2017 10:59 utc | 4

Bring back Rhodesia

Posted by: Lemur | Nov 15 2017 13:01 utc | 6

Zimbabwe is proof that Anti-Colonialism is not a cure all and cannot be elevated to a theory or a moral principal. The question is not whether the colonial power should be replaced or not. The question is what comes next and who benefits and is murder truly worth it to produce the change. The history of 20th century anti colonialism is the history of the rationalization of murder for a utopia that never comes. We have a different world because of anti-colonialism but it is a hard to say we have a better one. It’s a case by case situation.
It is a sad comment that Ian Smith is still the best Prime Minister Zimbabwe ever had.
Good luck to the people of Zimbabwe on their transition to a better tomorrow now that the Mugabe family is receiving their comeuppance.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Nov 15 2017 13:42 utc | 8

Simple reason for the coup is that Mugabe has only a few days to live.
military has probably always been in control of Zimbabwe (one way or another)
Mugabe’s rule (or misrule) was probably as a kind of figure-head who acts as if he is able to unite the country behind his persona.
(in a similar way to Colonel Gadhaffi, Mandela, Mobutu etc and others).
naturally, if and when he dies, there will be some sort of a power struggle.
8.Northern Observer is probably right.
they could have just left Ian Smith on as Prime Minister.
Military attitude is that it best to make any move they had planned beforehand (ie past 20 years) now.

Posted by: chris m | Nov 15 2017 14:11 utc | 10

Well, Western agencies and countries might not be directly involved here, but I wouldn’t rule out some South African interference.
Other than that, I’m not knwoledgeable enough to comment seriously on what’s going on, so I’ll sit here trying to grasp that and gather the few information we can get.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 15 2017 15:48 utc | 12

Hmmm…wouldn’t be the first time something like this happened.
http://www.theeventchronicle.com/finanace/gold-reserves-back-zimbabwe-currency/

Posted by: Paul | Nov 15 2017 17:08 utc | 14

Don’t know enough about the power dynamics. However with Gaddafi gone and the USA in, Africa is only going to get nastier and Europe, oh Europe. B you’ll be getting some new neighbors over in Deutschland!

Posted by: Fernando Arauxo | Nov 15 2017 19:07 utc | 16

clear as water.
i´ts all the fault of Putin!

Posted by: F.MAN | Nov 15 2017 20:00 utc | 18

Zimbabwe isn’t ruled by a monarch nor some dictator like presstitute media try to make it sound. Zimbabwe ruled by president Robert Mugabe was just like Libya, Sudan and Eritrea resisting the US colonial AFRICOM and other nefarious forms of neo colonization.
President Robert Mugabe was one of the liberation leaders who fought during the war for independence. The first 2 decades after independence he was a favored ruler by Great Britain because he hardly touched the existing power dynamics in the country. The 4k settler farmers who made up less than 1% of the population owned more than 70% af the arable land. After 20 years of farmers dragging their feet when requested to return the stolen land, they were forced to which earned Mugaba the full wrath by ex colonizer Great Britain but also the US and EU.
Great Britain went to great lengths to topple Mugabe and dismantle ZANU-PF resorting to economic warfare similar to what Venezuela has been enduring since Chavez was elected. Great Britain and the presstitute media also resorted and still execute a massive propaganda campaign where it’s next to impossible to find a shred of truth in presstitute media about Zimbabwe, again similar to Venezuela but also Libya, North Korea, and so many other countries that are ruled by governments where the US, UK, EU or other Atlanticist countries have no or hardly any control over.
It’s only because in 2000, South Africa refused any military operation that Zimbabwe wasn’t attacked militarily, style Somalia-Afghanistan-Yugoslavia-… – you finish the list. ZANU-PF resisted all the ‘soft power’ attacks and Robert Mugabe has been reelected as a president ever since. The next election was due to take place in 2018 next year. In all those years the now aging Mugabe has always been democratically elected so the story that he was pushing Grace Mugabe to succeed him is bullshit. If she were to succeed him, it would have been done through democratic election like the previous elections since 1980.
The same scenario unfolded itself in Mali against president Amadou Toumani Touré in 2012. Elections are due but the ex-colonizer sees an opportunity to install their own puppet ruler. In Mali president Touré was removed from power by army man Amadou Sanogo only a few months before the next elections were to be held. After Sanogo’s usefulness had expired (less than a month) he was discarded like a used condom (he’s in jail) in a similar way like military man Ibrahim Coulibaly (also less than a month and died by gunshot) from Ivory Coast that eventually brought Ouattara to power. In Zimbabwe that role is currently assumed by SB Moyo. Let’s wait and see how long it takes before Moyo’s expiry date passes.

Posted by: xor | Nov 15 2017 20:04 utc | 20

@15 Guy Thornton
Have you written about your experiences anywhere?

Posted by: Pespi | Nov 15 2017 20:18 utc | 22

Thanks B for this article and for opening up the comments forum for others like Guy Thornton, Xor and Debsisdead (thanks to you all!) to elucidate further on Zimbabwe’s recent history and Britain’s role in keeping the country poor and struggling and perhaps helping to justify Robert Mugabe’s megalomania.
Curious to know whether Major General Sibusiso Moyo (promoted to his current rank by Mugabe himself in January 2016 according to Moyo’s Wikipedia entry) actually did carry out a coup or whether Moyo and his forces put Mugabe and his family under lockdown to prevent a coup or an assassination attempt being carried out against Mugabe. Could VP Mnangagwa be connected somehow?
I find intriguing also that this incident occurs at a time when Zimbabwe is opening up its economy (and promoting its farmland and mineral wealth) to huge Chinese investment.
Looks like this will be a channel to stay tuned to.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 15 2017 21:24 utc | 24

‘Unfortunately his economic policies, together with “western” sanctions and currency manipulations’
this puts the blame on Mugabe, and only secondarily on western (why the quotes?) sanctions

Posted by: brian | Nov 15 2017 21:31 utc | 26

Mugabe is “protected” by the CIA. Remember, he allowed for a couple of the black sites to be opened up on Zimbabwean soil as part of the rendition programme back in the day.
Further, they also supplied him with information that allowed him to stop that plane that had Margaret Thatcher’s son and his mercenaries on their way to a coup in Equatorial Guinea in 2004.
The Brits have never liked him but that was the tipping point.
All of that history is important…. but up to a point. Dude is 7 years from turning 100! His time has come one way or another. It’s what follows that is going to interesting….

Posted by: Skeletor | Nov 15 2017 22:06 utc | 28

@debsisdead 23
The agricultural side of things is not too hot, my friend. The boers who really knew their shit all fucked off, or were killed by angry war veterans who were promised land by RM, and waited patiently for more then a decade to no avail, and eventually took it. The reason Mugabe didnt force the issue (he just let it slide) was because he knew the economy would be fucked if he did. But international sanctions fucked us up more than the incredible ineptitude of the black farmers who took over. The people ultimately suffered as a result, and if it wasn’t for support from South Africa and other neighbors, there would be a Yemen style shitfest there right now. The upside for myself, anyway, is that all these huge tobacco farms etc have gone back to nature, and Zim is at its most beautiful, the massive agri death squads are not quite here yet. The downside, obviously, is the economic hardships that come with a country that cant provide a fraction of its own food yet. But maybe thats exactly what this is all about. Watch big agri move in quick sticks after Mugabe dies. They’ll get their colonialism either way, and wish the jaapies were back. Funny fact right here: millions of Zimbabwean refugees working for the same boers now, over the border, and millions more still depending on those guys for food. Seems to me at some point at the end of last century the country had a choice to either change at its own pace or be hijacked by Mugabe’s loyal vets. I personally admire the old cunt, he really stuck to his guns, but he was up against more firepower than anybody could hope to deal with.
Anyway, I rate Zimbabweans as some of the most intelligent, friendly people I know, black and white, and Im sure they’ll be fine,
as long as the UK and US stay the fuck away. Oh, and as long as Gucci doesn’t have anything to do with it. She is the antithesis of humility.

Posted by: dan | Nov 15 2017 22:14 utc | 30

In addition to the motives mentioned above (opening up Zimbabwe to an IMF-rape, preventing the country from getting too close with China), there is another possible reason they turned on Mugabe: according to reports, he was trying to establish a gold-backed ‘afro’ currency along with Libya, Congo and S. Africa about 15 years ago. Look what they did to Khaddafi! They want to get rid of Mugabe, too.

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | Nov 15 2017 22:28 utc | 32

the sheer cheek of Boris Johnson to complain about the possibility of “one tyrant replacing another” in Zim when the British govt routinely backs & sanctions the sale of billions of Pounds worth of weaponry to vicious tyrants all over the place. They only started opposing Mugabe when they realised they couldnt control him. That’s not to say old Bob hasn’t ballsed up the economy & committed some dreadful crimes against his political/tribal foes these past few decades but it’s always worth highlighting Western hypocrisy, especially since the mainstream media refuse to do so!

Posted by: Nick | Nov 15 2017 23:23 utc | 34

@brian 27,
On the agricultural production issue, here’s an important point on the drop in irrigation:

Last year the Herald, a government-owned daily newspaper, quoted Conrade Zawe of the department of irrigation in the ministry of agriculture as saying that about half of the 250,000 hectares of land under irrigation in 2000 were being irrigated in 2013.

http://www.un.org. . .-2014/zimbabwe’s-farmers-struggle-feed-nation
When you look at regions that get slammed by droughts (Syria in 2006) and ones that survive them (California’s epic drought), that’s the big difference – agricultural infrastructure for irrigation. That accounts for most of the loss of crop production in Zimbabwe.
The other factor is financial support for farmers – who have to be able to buy seed and fertilizer and farm equipment at the beginning of the season if they want to get a good harvest, even with irrigation. This has been a traditional activity of farmers and local commercial banks across the United States, that’s why relatively small farmers (a few hundred hectares at most, about 150 hectares is the average size of farms in California and Iowa) grow most of the produce consumed in the U.S. Cut off all those lines of credit, for various reasons such as no more exports for foreign funds, international sanctions targeting Mugabe, etc. and the whole system of production starves to death.
The biggest problem seems to be that the Mugabe government just handed out land to people who knew nothing about farming, for political reasons, then didn’t invest in training and supplying them. This is also where the competitive market system always seems to beat the collectivized state production system, in agriculture and manufacturing. Where the FDR-style ‘socialist’ approach could have helped – farmer education & training, irrigation infrastructure, national investment banks, etc. – it looks like the overly corrupt self-serving Mugabe government just didn’t do its job.
However, the pre-2000 system wasn’t so fantastic either, it looks like following the advice of the IMF and World Bank was a recipe for disaster in Zimbabwe just like it was in so many other countries. No real development, export crops for foreign investors, rampant poverty for most people – nothing there looks good, either. Maybe that whole pan-African nationalism approach is their only way out of the current situation.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Nov 15 2017 23:48 utc | 36

…following the advice of the IMF and World Bank was a recipe for disaster in Zimbabwe just like it was in so many other countries. No real development, export crops for foreign investors, rampant poverty for most people – nothing there looks good, either. Maybe that whole pan-African nationalism approach is their only way out of the current situation.
It seems that the well-intended Gaddafi was the point man on the Pan Africa enterprise. Perhaps China has a leg up (in Africa) on the west at this time. They can’t be any worse.
Name one country that has given in to the IMF/World Bank to the betterment of its common people.
I can’t think of one.
Note all the bad PR about Duterte in the Filippines and his “pivot to China” Note that ISIS has “taken root” there.
Note that the average wage there is less than $4 a day if you can find any work. IMF = Int’l Mo Fo’s.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 16 2017 0:49 utc | 38

Posted by: somebody | Nov 15, 2017 6:29:05 PM | 34
If you want to respond sensibly don’t bother quoting from tory propaganda sheets such as the spectator which hasn’t produced an accurate balanced article since its inception in 1828. Like its fellow traveler the Daily Telegraph, the spectator is overtly white supremacist and exists only top ensure the lower orders do as they are told and keep voting against their best interests by supporting the half-witted policies of the swivel-eye, chinless wonders who have been oppressing decent human beings since 1066.
Zimbabwe’s land reform was about returning traditional land to traditional owners to do with as they see fit.
I was closely involved in similar returns to Indigenous Australians. Some clans decide to follow the whitefella model; whereupon they are immediately hit by a lose-lose dichotomy. They either hafta call in whitefella managers who not only treat the traditional owners like disposable dogs, they rip the joint off blind – artfully trousering any profit the enterprise has made.
Meanwhile making the clan feel like foreigners in their own country.
The alternative – sending youngfellas off to learn agricultural techniques seems to work rather better on the surface but it does require the young trainee whitefellas to miss out on induction into indigenous culture, and for people tied as closely to the land as both nomadic and agrarian traditional owners are, that is equivalent to expecting a son or daughter to forgo their lives eternally for the greater good.
Ultimately most traditional owners who have successfully negotiated the divisive and destructive attempts by colonisers to ‘whitesplain’ them, prefer to see land holdings return to their original state.
As for China, the bulk of Zimbabwe’s involvement with the PRC occurred back in the days of Zhou Enlai’s foreign policy of non-intervention in other nations. Zhou Enlai had quit the foreign ministry by the time Zimbabwe found freedom, but only because he had moved on to become premier of the PRC and the PRC government was more interested in nurturing other socialist states than exploiting them, despite the outrageous bullshit western media was pumping out back then.
As can be found here the current englander regime is desperate to conceal the effect on food prices of Brexit.-indubitably supported by somebody’s favourite englander news source the spectator.
Even now pre-Brexit england food prices have soared 4.2% month on month – this in a nation where wages have been going backwards since the introduction of ‘post 2008 GFC austerity’.
The link included in Brian’s post intimates that the UK had been hell bent on exploiting Zimbabwe as a strategy to cope with the problem of a nation which cannot produce sufficient food to support it’s population.
France didn’t cop the same problems with eastern european migrant labour inflow, because they correctly used the restraints on population flow included in the EU’s agreement, but the leadership in UK elected to allow unrestricted labour inflows in return for easier access to agriculture than other established EU nations, knowing that whenever they got questioned about it, they could place the blame at the feet of the alleged but entirely false ‘banana bending’ rules of the EU, a specious fantasy supported by tory media outlets such as ‘the spectator’.
N.B. I notice the current frontpage of the spectator website includes at least 3 links to stories which try (and fail) to denigrate Mr Corbyn.
The MSM is a mess of subjective half truths at the best of times but anything appearing in the spectator is unmitigated subjective propaganda always.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 16 2017 2:38 utc | 40

Background on comulative destabilising influences inside Zimbabwe from Andrew Korbyko
https://orientalreview.org/2017/02/17/hybrid-wars-8-is-southern-africa-about-to-be-shaken-up/

Posted by: Bolt | Nov 16 2017 2:49 utc | 42

The only reason for Mugabe’s longevity is the military elite living very nicely on the chunks of cake falling off his table. The abandoned and redistributed “white” farms were dished out to his loyalists, resulting in a total collapse of the agricultural sector and, as a result, the food supply chain. The idea that land was redistributed to the people is a half-truth. The land not dished out, was simply taken over by local loyalist thugs. This goes for the mines and other industries as well.
If one wants to do any business in Zim, one first has to make contributions to whomever is in the relevant local power structure. This, business is only happy to do.
Grace Mugabe is threatening to replace the current lot of piggies at the trough with different piggies. This cannot be allowed, and this brouhaha is aimed at the new piggies – not the bedrock of the structure. If Mugabe does not reign in Grace and Co, he will die of “old age” and the military will install a new pig-in-chief.
The Ndebele people will have no respite and the ruling Shona elite will simply continue feeding.
I have also noticed that the education system has not retained its relatively high standards. Zimmers inform me that this is also collapsing.
I seriously doubt that the western powers have much influence here and I doubt that there will be any positive transition. South Africa does not have a hand in this. It suited the ANC in South Africa to have Mugabe in power. A change to a similar regime will not have any real impact so long as the “revolution” continues.
Same old same old.

Posted by: E | Nov 16 2017 3:37 utc | 44

Debsisdead
I saw the same thing in the bit of time I spent on the Kimberly platue. Looking at the pieces on Z farming in this thread, I also imediatly thought of the similarities.
Though there, it was not just white farmers pocketing the money, but also officials of the ALC.
For any infrastructure in the communities, government grants had to be ten x the required amount to cover what was required by the town dwelling, educated aboriginal people who were ALC officials for purchasing rental properties. It realy was/is a fucked up world for the old time stockmen, who are once again living on their traditional land, with traditional culture, without white overseerers/masters

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 16 2017 6:11 utc | 46

Down south @ 46 is, unfortunately, correct. What needs to be added is that the SADC Tribunal found against Zimbabwe (Mugabe) in a test case regarding expropriation without compensation. The Tribunal then gently expired with the complicity of the other countries. The South African courts, to their credit, upheld the decision of the Tribunal and some Zimbabwean properties were attached for execution.
We must not make the mistake of thinking that all white farmers were exploitative and all black Zimbabweans heroes of a revolution. The situation is much more nuanced than that. All the blame can also not be laid at the feet of the Western financial interests. Mugabe and his cronies, after massacring many, many of his political opponents in Matabeleland (mostly minority Ndebele) made it very clear who will wield power.
It seems that the “war veterans” (basically the movers and shakers behind the armed forces) have indicated their support for the vice president Mnangagwa in a government of national unity and that Mugabe will receive a safe exit.
The opposition leader, Morgan Tswangirai is, reportedly, on his way to negotiate.
This, imo, indicates that Grace is “retiring”. Her excesses have caught up with her, but this does not mean that the new government will be angels. Politics in Zim is deeply tribal and the threat of violence will, for the foreseeable future, permeate politics. A government of national unity was tried before and did not work out well for anybody apart from those who control the guns – the Shona.

Posted by: E | Nov 16 2017 7:47 utc | 48

@ Bolt 41
Thanks for the link, I thought it important so reposted for luck.

Posted by: dan | Nov 16 2017 8:09 utc | 50

Yingluck of Thailand,
Gould Whitlam of Oz,
Kevin Rudd of Oz, [he speaks Mandarin too !]
PM Hatoyama of Jp,
Prez Rajapaksa of Sir Lanka,
PM oli of Nepal,
King Birendra of Nepal,
PM Thinley of Bhutan,
PM Rajiv Ghandhi of India,
Prez Sukarno of Indon,
PM Najib of Malaysia,
……..
My memory is failing, there might be others that’s missed out.
Whats the common thread to these leaders who were either regime changed, bumped off or subjected to intense political attack ?
Here’s Yingluck with Xi before her downfall….
http://au.china-embassy.org/eng/xw/W020111226481170559284.jpg
Bhutan PM Thinley with Wen Jiabao, shortly before his ouster by CIA/RAW
regime change.
http://bit.ly/2zLbTDl
Every one of the above has a similar story to tell !
The fundamental law of probability says,
Once is accident, twice is coincidence, thrice,,,,,…enemy action !
Mathematically speaking, there’s a 99.9% chance that Mugabe is the latest victim
of the accursed ‘Chinese kiss of death’ !

Posted by: denk | Nov 16 2017 9:29 utc | 52

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 15, 2017 9:38:24 PM | 39
Britain still is in the EU with all this means ie same EU food price. If prices have risen BREXIT is NOT the reason. There is no “pre Brexit”, Britain is part of the EU.
I quoted the conservative British papers because they are counter the initial narrative – that Zimbabwe just does not work run by black people – it seems it does not worse than under white people. It is also possible though that British conservatives realized that if they want to deal with Zimbabwe (those mines!) they have to stop the sanctions.
Africa for sure is where the Chinese – European – US resource wars are heating up and hybrid wars are the fashion.
The military taking over/dictatorship is stabilization, not destabilization. As bad as it is for the human rights of citizens.
Zimbabwe’s military is close to China.
To assume the world is the same it was 20 years ago, means people are getting old.
52
In order to compensate for their loss in popularity due to rampant corruption, cronyism, incompetence, and squandering and theft of state resources they are trying to implement the same populist measure that ruined Zimbabwe. Expropriation without compensation, the Bell Pottinger fiasco, free tertiary education etc.
Nothing wrong with free tertiary education.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 16 2017 12:01 utc | 54

The only thing worse for Africa than colonialism was decolonization.

Posted by: Old Ez | Nov 16 2017 13:14 utc | 56

I wonder if the racist apologists for the Smith Regime and or colonialism in general also lament the recovery of independence by Poland and France?

Posted by: Squeeth | Nov 16 2017 14:17 utc | 58

58
Mugabe’s (and other’s) life and the fight against colonialism are sure impressive. And support from China was part of it.
China might even have an economic model.
Whatever people in Zimbabwe will do – they decide.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 16 2017 14:46 utc | 60

Personally, i hope that Mugabe hangs around for another 2 years as President (God willing) until 2020 (preferably january 2020, the starting date of his reign).
due to my theory/belief that Mugabe and his reign of mis-rule was
sent by God as a sort of punishment to the people of Zimbabwe for exactly 40 years.
(and not a day or do less-or-more, if i’m lucky).
(never sure what the punishment was for, though.
if not, then, oops, bang goes that particular theory.
(and send my apologies to the people of Zimbabwe).
People of Zimbabwe have probably already realised that this is the case, and ought to learn from his deeds and mis-deeds in the future, in the same way people of Israel must have learned something after getting stuck in the Sinai desert for 40 years.

Posted by: chris m | Nov 16 2017 16:33 utc | 62

What is the meaning here? Why would Grace Mugabe ask that her husband, Mugabe, be named his own successor?
“Mugabe is now 93 years old and apparently frail. There has long been infighting over his succession. Mugabe’s wife “Gucci” Grace Mugabe and her children are well known for being exceptionally corrupt and prodigal when it comes to their personal amenities. On November 5 Grace Mugabe asked her husband to be named as his successor.”
Should this not be mentioned, at least in passing?
Ongoing white genocide in South Africa http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/White_Genocide_TVA.pdf

Posted by: Ian | Nov 16 2017 16:46 utc | 64

” Considerably more objective investigation is needed before any call can be made about what is the best way to preserve Zimbabwe from foreign ownership.”>>>>>>
I am pretty sure the best thing for Zimbabwe isn’t bringing in foreign enities to ‘fix’ elections.
Robert Mugabe’s Made-in-Israel ‘Landslide’ In Zimbabwe
http://forward.com/fast-forward/181670/robert-mugabes-made-in-israel-landslide-in-zimbabwe/?attribution=blog-article-listing-4-headline

Posted by: renfro | Nov 16 2017 20:11 utc | 66

In last night’s DW/US MSM on the subject, I noticed that the leadership was very well fed. I’ll be the rest of the country’s population isn’t so lucky.
Dan
Thanks for the on-the-ground input.

Posted by: Curtis | Nov 16 2017 23:13 utc | 68

Posted by: renfro | Nov 16, 2017 3:11:35 PM | 66
That is easy eh, use a tenuous connection of an alleged israeli connection to denigrate Zanu-PF and uphold the findings of an english financed neoliberal front group.
The article you linked to which discussed the 2013 Zimbabwe election is datelined today – weird.
Even weirder is the shadowy beginnings of the far from independent “Zimbabwe Election Support Network” who have done little other than push out lies and exagerations since the englander Intelligence Services attempt to steal the 2008 election failed so miserably.
This piece here about the final report made by foreign observers to the 2013 election, provides a facts based objective analysis of that which you seek to decry. e.g.

“According to the regulations and laws that govern the elections of Sadc, we are required as chair of the monitoring team called SEOM – the Sadc Election Observer Mission – I am supposed to deliver a report outlining the outcome of the process and also commending the nature of the elections,” he said.
“So, we had 30 days that is until tomorrow (today) to make that report public. This is why myself as the head of the Sadc Election Observer Mission together with the Sadc secretariat we deliver the Sadc report on the July 31 election that was held here to the public. So, this is why we are here and the report will be delivered tomorrow (today) at 10:am.”
Sadc deployed 573 observers for the harmonised elections that also drew at least 20 000 local and international observers and hordes of local and foreign journalists.
All the countries and organisations that observed the harmonised elections have endorsed the polls as free, fair and credible, and a reflection of the will of Zimbabweans.
The only dissenting voices have come from the Western-funded Zimbabwe Election Support Network that was funded to the tune of US$5 million ahead of the elections, as well as the MDC-T’s traditional backers comprising of the United States, Britain and its dominions Australia and Canada; that however were not invited to observe the elections.
The African Union, Comesa, the African Caribbean and Pacific countries have since endorsed the elections as free, and fair.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 16 2017 23:42 utc | 70

Posted by: renfro | Nov 16, 2017 3:11:35 PM | 66
you quote the zionist jews??

Posted by: brian | Nov 17 2017 0:33 utc | 72

Curtis 69
‘The Indonesian covert action of 1965, reported by Ralph McGehee, who was in that area division, and had documents on his desk, in his custody about that operation. He said that one of the documents concluded that this was a model operation that should be copied elsewhere in the world. Not only did it eliminate the effective communist party (Indonesian communist party), it also eliminated the entire segment of the population that tended to support the communist party – the ethnic Chinese, Indonesian Chinese. And the CIA’s report put the number of dead at 800,000 killed. And that was one covert action. We’re talking about 1 to 3 million people killed in these things.
Two of these things have led us directly into bloody wars. There was a covert action against China, destabilizing China, for many, many years, with a propaganda campaign to work up a mood, a feeling in this country, of the evils of communist China, and attacking them’
http://www.whale.to/b/stockwell1.html

Posted by: denk | Nov 17 2017 9:20 utc | 74

What the hell is Chris Marsten smoking,
is he insinuating that China is complicit in the coup ?
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/11/16/zimb-n16.html
disinfo agents showing their true color ???
p.s.
wsws censor my comment ,
hhhhhhh

Posted by: denk | Nov 17 2017 9:28 utc | 76

brian 71 “native australians have no history of farming, that im aware of”
What does that have to do with the price of cow shit?
Native Australians were and are very good stockmen.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 17 2017 9:45 utc | 78

Growing pains seem to be a problem for any less advanced country that has kicked off the yolk of a more tech advanced empire.
From everything I can see, the vultures are trying to capatalize on this.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 17 2017 10:02 utc | 80

somebody | Nov 17, 2017 4:37:42 AM | 77
I think david is angry at the colossal waste. So am I. The anti-apartheid struggle did NOT achieve its aims and that is the point. We do not have free primary education of any reasonable standard. How can we expect tertiary education to be free? The national/tribal/familial natural resources are in the hands of the colonisers (De Beers Mining is an excellent example) and any attempt to nationalise/tribalise will be followed by Western bombs falling on our heads. We know this very well.
In addition, many a revolution simply end in the original aims being hijacked and subverted. Both SA and Zim are examples. In both counties, to a smaller or larger extent, and in different ways, the poor and whites are being oppressed. This was certainly not the aim of the struggle.
The basic problem is that democracy, as understood in the West, is completely alien to sub-Saharan people. If I may explain at the risk of over-simplifying to the level of parody:
The local cultures have different checks and balances on power in the tribal structures and even a king could be deposed by the Royal family or the People’s Assembly if he transgressed the law. Interestingly enough, these checks and balances are very similar to the checks and balances found in Western legal systems, but the power to wield them lies in a different governmental structure. The impi (military) revolting against a king is not unknown and may be perfectly fine in terms of local culture and indigenous law.
The idea of individual freedom is very strong, but the family is the legal person – roughly like a company – and the family is represented by its head in the governmental structures. Power is very diffused and operates on local/family level. The idea of big centralised government, far from the people, is alien. The government (family head/chief/king) has the responsibility to care for the people (tribe).
Inside a family, the focus is on consensus and harmony. This consensus is, therefore, brought forward by the family head. “One family, one voice.” But the family head, as spokesman, has onerous responsibilities towards the family. One of these would be to ensure the welfare of family members – in a so-called “modern” state, this manifests as nepotism. In the local culture, it cannot be nepotism, as there was no formal employment outside of the family.
The idea of an individual vote is very new and does not “fit” inside the cultural background. There is a strong focus on family and tribe – what Westerners would, condescendingly, call “tribalism.”
The worst aspects of Western style democracy and the worst aspects of indigenous law and culture, unfortunately, lead to horrors like Robert Mugabe as, with the breakdown of tribal structures, ZANU-PF and the ANC have become the “tribe” from which deviation is almost unthinkable. This is Grace Mugabe’s folly: She tried to operate outside of the tribal circle.
In SA’s Western Cape Province, the demographic make-up of the population is different and Western style democracy is more easily attainable and the opposition is strongest in that Province.
I can go on and on about this stuff, but I think I have made my point. Trying to enforce Western style democracy is actually bad for local people as the ruler/president/PM has, first and foremost, a duty to the family and only then to the tribe and never to a different tribe. This is also why aid money goes missing – my family needs to be fed first and there is only a duty of charity towards the “other” family.
There is no good or bad system. Democracy is not automatically “better than any other system”. It needs to work for the particular people. In SA and Zim it is simply not working and trying to force Western style democracy on people is harmful to the very people democracy is supposed to empower.
I do not know what the answers are. I only know that the template that Westerners try to impose on us, does great harm to ordinary people and the vultures are circling with their bags of money or, alternatively, their sanctions and silver birds.

Posted by: E | Nov 17 2017 11:50 utc | 82

Whatever Mugabe’s anti-colonial policies and heroism as a freedom fighter he turned out to be a greedy dictator who murdered his political opponents on a big scale.

Posted by: Ray Visino | Nov 18 2017 0:43 utc | 84

@85 truth hurts? tough!

Posted by: thirsty | Nov 18 2017 7:05 utc | 86

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File: mugabe-army-salute.jpg (83 KB, 640×400)
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Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:42:06 No.3700660▶>>3700690 >>3700704 >>3700721 >>3701610 >>3701618 >>3701621 >>3701704 >>3702035 >>3702872 >>3703220
>fights against oppressive racist regime
>defeats opposing rebel ussr backed faction
>overthrows said regime through sheer willpower
>becomes president, keeping his position through sly political moves. shepards his countries through the ups and downs of the international economic cycle
>nationalizes the land monopolized by white farmers.
>black farmers naturally were kept in a subordinate position by whitey so they aren’t ready to farm yet. still, despite a bumpy start the small tobacco farmers do moderately well after a while
>almost abolishes money through hyperinflation
>serves as a beacon for anti-imperialism across africa, and is present at all conferences to serve as an inspiration to his fellow brother countries, who adore him
>imperialists led by America and IMF plot against him and try to crash his economy with no survivors, he still stands
>wants a younger revolutionary generation to take over his legacy. his wife is the head of this movement
>bitter military old guard chimp out and overthrow him because they want a chance to have prestige for themselves instead of carrying on the ideals of 1980
so why isn’t he /ourguy/ again?
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:48:51 No.3700690▶>>3702872
>>3700660 (OP) #
Because he’s a retard who destroyed his own country through incompetence
Actually, yeah I guess that makes him /our guy/
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:52:18 No.3700704▶>>3700712 >>3700723 >>3701595 >>3701691
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>>3700660 (OP) #
could you explain his economic theories nice and simple?
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:52:47 No.3700707▶
>imperialism
>bad
Shiggery Diggery Doo
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:53:03 No.3700708▶>>3700714
Reminder that South Africa would be like Zimbabwe if Mandela hadn’t held back the monkeys. Instead it’s getting there 25 years later.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:54:25 No.3700712▶
>>3700704 #
abolition of commodity production and the law of value :^)
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:54:31 No.3700714▶>>3701609
>>3700708 #
>getting there.
with what? a middle class that is decidedly pro white?
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:56:21 No.3700721▶
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>>3700660 (OP) #
>oppressive racist regime
I know this is bait, but I still hope you get run over
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)13:56:29 No.3700723▶
>>3700704 #
people needs to learn to count
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)16:55:22 No.3701595▶
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>>3700704 #
Master plan to make paper easily accessible by making money worth less than the paper it is printed on.
Simply genius.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)16:58:56 No.3701609▶>>3701613
>>3700714 #
increasing corruption and declining education
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)16:59:14 No.3701610▶>>3702886
>>3700660 (OP) #
Farming is pretty easy. The fact that blacks can’t farm a fertile land in 21st century makes them look like subhumans.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)16:59:36 No.3701613▶
>>3701609 #
pretty much every post colonial state has that
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:00:05 No.3701618▶
File: gold.jpg (1.76 MB, 5000×5000)
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>>3700660 (OP) #
>>black farmers naturally were kept in a subordinate position by whitey so they aren’t ready to farm yet.
holy shit i know this is bait but ya got me OP
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:00:31 No.3701621▶
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>>3700660 (OP) #
>All these ad hoc rationalizations
Marxists are edgy
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:01:30 No.3701624▶>>3701663 >>3701671 >>3702026
I mean think about it. No one taught white migrants to Africa how to farm.
Most of them taught themselves by researching and modernized their farms using equipment.
It’s not a concept that is too hard to grasp for anyone with an IQ above 85
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:10:02 No.3701663▶
>>3701624 #
>with an IQ above 85
Make that 60
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:11:21 No.3701671▶
>>3701624 #
Expect that whites moved in Southern Africa before the industrial revolution so they obviously knew how to farm back then.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:16:17 No.3701691▶
>>3700704 #
>a pile of rocks
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)17:18:45 No.3701704▶
>>3700660 (OP) #
>Fight against a freedom supporting prosperous nation
>Overthrows said nation with support from the Brits
>Becomes “President”, shepards his country through downs and downs and downs all caused by him
>Kicks out citizens based on ethnicity
>Serves as a beacon to pro-Imperialists as an example of why Imperialism is better for the natives than the natives ruling themselves
>Imperialists led by America try to provide aid and money to his country to stop all his people from starving, he still manages to let them starve
>Military old guard finally off his worthless genocidal ass a bit too late
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)18:42:38 No.3702026▶
>>3701624 #
>nobody teaches you how to farm! it just happens
I have worked on a farm. I can tell you haven’t.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)18:45:07 No.3702035▶>>3702069
>>3700660 (OP) #
>fights against opressive racist regime
So he could create his own oppresive regime
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)18:54:46 No.3702069▶
>>3702035 #
This.
I fucking hated Rhodesiaboos but I’m not going to sit here and pretend that Mugabe’s not a pile of shit.
One fucked up government was replaced by another.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:33:23 No.3702831▶
Literally Black Hitler
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:41:35 No.3702872▶>>3702911
>>3700690 #
>>3700660 (OP) #
At least he doesn’t bow to U.S. and western imperialism and at least Zimbabwe doesn’t have a Rothschild bank or they have Soros backed agitators who want to get rid a of an independent socialist state like Zimbabwe, a powerful state free of imperialism and western decadence.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:47:54 No.3702886▶>>3702897
>>3701610 #
If farming was so easy, why did it take thousands of years for anyone to discover it? Besides, other Africans farmed too, it was just the pastoral Bantus in Zimbabwe that didn’t know shit.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:51:29 No.3702897▶>>3702921
>>3702886 #
>if reading was so easy, why did it take thousands of years for anyone to discover it
>if basic arithmetic was so easy, why did it take thousands of years for anyone to discover it
>if the wheel was so easy, why did it take thousands of years for anyone to discover it
>if bathing was so easy, why did it take thousands of years for anyone to discover it
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:52:23 No.3702900▶
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Robert Mugabe is my hero. A proud TURK who drove the wh*Te subhumans out of Afrika.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:54:31 No.3702906▶>>3702916 >>3702922
File: mugabe is based.jpg (55 KB, 850×400)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE-C6tD-yYA [Embed]
I really love Mugabe.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:55:28 No.3702911▶>>3702935 >>3703502
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>>3702872 #
>our economy has been in the literal shitter for decades and we’ve got 80% unemployment, but at least we don’t have any westerners or whites r-r-right?
Bet you think North Korea is a workers’ paradise too right?
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:56:46 No.3702916▶>>3702924
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>>3702906 #
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:57:52 No.3702921▶>>3702930
>>3702897 #
>ignoring everything else I just said
By the way, agriculture and basic counting most likely came before all of that.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:57:56 No.3702922▶
>>3702906 #
based
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:59:01 No.3702924▶>>3702929
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>>3702916 #
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)22:59:18 No.3702925▶>>3702944 >>3703005
He had the chance to have one of the most prosperous countries in Subsuharan Africa. He fucked up royally with his greed, paranoia and hunger for power. He turned the country into a dictatorship, attempted to massacre the Ndebele minority, ruined the military in failed foreign ventures and destroyed the economy.
Bear in mind this is in spite of receiving close to 1 billion dollars in cash grants from the US and UK over a 6 year period (and billions afterwards in food aide) and being given almost an immunity from international sanctions despite human rights abuses.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:01:09 No.3702929▶
>>3702924 #
>economic growth happened when Zimbabwe abandoned their own currency and adopted US western money
So this is the power of Mugabe… woah…
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:01:22 No.3702930▶>>3702965
>>3702921 #
>agriculture… most likely came before all of that
Exactly, reread your own argument
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:03:20 No.3702935▶>>3702944 >>3702947
>>3702911 #
The economy of Zimbabwe is recovering now. The poor economy was because of the western sanctions on this demonized and vilified socialist country. When you have a country that isn’t run by the Rothschilds, they will use economic warfare and sabotage in order to break the will of their government and the people. But the Zimbabweans love their leader and their nation, and they are not going to fall to imperialism so easily. I bet you believe that Assad has to go and the “moderate” rebels are the good guys in Syria. Well like Syria, Mugabe and Zimbabwe have been demonized and vilified by the west.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:07:20 No.3702944▶>>3702967
>>3702935 #
Or maybe its because his socialist policies didn’t fucking work and his economy didn’t have any growth until he finally started allowing western investment in his country?
Mugabe wasn’t even vilified by the West until he started abusing his powers in the 90’s like every good dictator and like >>3702925 # said he squandered billions in aid from western nations.
Just because somebody isn’t liked by Western powers doesn’t automatically make them the good guys, Assad is alright because he’s actually fighting ISIS and maintaining a secular dictatorship whereas Mugabe has been batshit for decades and drove out all western influence to appease his retarded war buddies.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:09:54 No.3702947▶>>3702950 >>3702967
>>3702935 #
>poor economy was because of the western sanctions on this demonized and vilified socialist country.
>For more than 30 years, the American people, through USAID, have invested over $2.6 billion in Zimbabwe. Current projects include initiatives to increase food security, support economic resilience, improve health systems and services, and advance a more democratic system of governance.
https://zw.usembassy.gov/embassy/harare/sections-offices/usaid-zimbabwe/
Mugabe is literally on the US payroll. Are Assad and Kim receiving billions of dollars from the US?
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:11:40 No.3702950▶>>3703005
>>3702947 #
I always find it funny when people who praise these shitholes for not having western influence always seem to lose track of them taking billions in food and aid from western countries.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:15:49 No.3702965▶
>>3702930 #
My argument is that saying “blacks can’t do agriculture because of one country being a colossal failure” is insane. I mean come on, Ethiopia has had a long agriculture tradition, just to name one country.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:16:25 No.3702967▶>>3702975 >>3702991 >>3703000
>>3702944 #
>>3702947 #
Socialism works despite the Soros-Koch funded propaganda against it. Western sanctions are to blame for Zimbabwe and also I forgot to mention that the Whites were also engaging in economic sabotage as well.
And no Assad and Kim are not receiving billions of U.S. dollars because they are independent socialist nations opposing western imperialism. That’s same with Zimbabwe. People who are attacking Mugabe as a “dictator” which is not true, he is not a dictator at all. He has been a revolutionary leader since independence and he has created policies that are popular to the masses. They all say that he’s a “dictator” and a “despot” and other clichés just so that the Rothschilds can get into their country and ruin Zimbabwe. At least there is peace in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is not like Iraq mirrored in war and poverty. Zimbabwe is one of the richest countries in Africa, and like Libya, they are demonizing Zimbabwe because they are independent, just like Syria under Assad and like the DPRK under Kim Jong Un.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:20:01 No.3702975▶>>3703011 >>3703019
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>>3702967 #
>it’s a retarded trotskyite on the russian payroll episode claiming that only US can be imperialist nation and not acknowledging that Assad is a russian satellite and even helped collaborate with the US during the war in Iraq by getting the US “outsourcing” torture to its country so the CIA doesn’t have to do it episode
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:28:49 No.3702991▶>>3703019 >>3703063
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>>3702967 #
>And no Assad and Kim are not receiving billions of U.S. dollars because they are independent socialist nations opposing western imperialism. That’s same with Zimbabwe.
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:32:18 No.3703000▶>>3703019 >>3703063
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>>3702967 #
>ideology that is opposed to needing any sort of capitalist influence can’t handle sanctions that only affect investment from capitalist nations
I’d love to see you try to last a week in Zimbabwe
also your claim about foreign aid is false as fuck you dumb commie
https://psmag.com/news/zimbabwe-in-trouble-as-trump-administration-considers-cutting-foreign-aid
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/880574/Britain-foreign-aid-Zimbabwe-Robert-Mugabe
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:34:19 No.3703005▶>>3703063
>>3702950 #
>Western sanctions are to blame for Zimbabwe and also I forgot to mention that the Whites were also engaging in economic sabotage as well
These “sanctions” were only to selling weapons to Zimbabwe and freezing visas and foreign assets of a few government officials. Whats more they only started in 2011 see COUNCIL DECISION 2011/101/CFSP
None of this would tank their economy.
>And no Assad and Kim are not receiving billions of U.S. dollars because they are independent socialist nations opposing western imperialism. That’s same with Zimbabwe.
No, Zimbabwe recives billions in aide from the decadent US, UK and EU.
https://zw.usembassy.gov/embassy/harare/sections-offices/usaid-zimbabwe/
>He has been a revolutionary leader since independence and he has created policies that are popular to the masses.
See >>3702925 #
>At least there is peace in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is not like Iraq mirrored in war and poverty
Thats because Zimbabwe is in the pocket of the US and the Rothschilds.
Can you tell me Zimbabwe an independent country and enemy of the Rothschilds gets billions of dollars in aide from the US? Why dont other socialist countries get such nice treatment?
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:36:53 No.3703011▶>>3703016
>>3702975 #
t. Hillary Clinton
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:39:23 No.3703016▶
>>3703011 #
t. retarded ass natbol who can’t objectively analyze geopolitics without muh jew soros
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:39:42 No.3703019▶>>3703039
>>3702991 #
>>3702975 #
>>3703000 #
three shillbots. this makes me suspicious. update your models, please
>>
Anonymous 11/17/17(Fri)23:51:21 No.3703039▶>>3703063
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>>3703019 #
Mugabe here, stop shilling for me you dumb larping cracker.
Holy fuck I need some lube before the military fucks me up.
>>
Anonymous 11/18/17(Sat)00:02:14 No.3703063▶>>3703073 >>3703086 >>3703673
>>3703039 #
>>3703005 #
>>3703000 #
>>3702991 #
You can be hostile as much as you want to be. The truth is Mugabe is against Western imperialism and thus he should be a friend of ours because he is against the Rothschild funded institutions that wants to see socialism be destroyed in Africa and in around the world. Mugabe like Kim and like Assad in Syria poses a threat to the zionists and the imperialists who are continuing to demonize independent socialist countries. I don’t know why you’re attacking me and why I’m getting all this hate simply because I am against regime change in Zimbabwe just as how I’m against regime change in Syria because like Assad in Syria Mugabe is being demonized as a “dictator” which is not true he is not a dictator. He is elected by the people every 5 years and he has enjoyed huge popularity in his country. He is just not a dictator. I mean these are the same talking points that was used to take out Saddam and to take out Kadafi in Libya. The truth is Mugabe and Zimbabwe is a misunderstood and demonized country that is against the Western institutions that wants to take him down.
>>
Anonymous 11/18/17(Sat)00:05:25 No.3703073▶
>>3703063 (You) #
how much do you get paid to shill and ignore reality, out of curiosity?
>>
Anonymous 11/18/17(Sat)00:11:17 No.3703079▶
>shepards his countries through the ups and downs of the international economic cycle
thats a nice way to put it
>shits all over his country’s economy through sheer stupidity and ignorance
also works
>almost abolishes money through hyperinflation
you got this one right
sorry anon, but someone retarded enough to fuck up his country so bad people resort to digging up rodents for food cannot be /myguy/
>retarded dictatorial mongrel
>our guy
never
>>
Anonymous 11/18/17(Sat)00:13:03 No.3703086▶>>3703163
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>>3703063 (You) #
>He is elected by the people every 5 years and he has enjoyed huge popularity in his country.
I seriously hope you don’t believe this shit, his party (ZANU-PF) has been intimidating, attacking and murdering opposition figures and voters for decades, not to mention his shitty socialist economic policies threw his nation into 90% unemployment and their currency reaching absolutely insane inflation levels to the point of him finally caving in and accepting western money (even after taking billions in western aid over the years).
You can be against intervening in other nations like Iraq and Syria without supporting senile tyrants like Mugabe just because they stood up to the big bad white man, there is absolutely nothing redeemable about his rule especially since he didn’t actually maintain any stability in his nation like Saddam, Gaddafi and al-Assad did.
Also he wanted to put his cunt of a wife in charge of the entire nation when her only experience is wasting what little taxpayers can give on overseas shopping sprees and lawsuits for chimping out at people while claiming diplomatic immunity. Fuck Mugabe and anyone who defends him.

Posted by: Em | Nov 18 2017 16:39 utc | 88

@89, I dunno, I find it has some interesting comments, I’d rather it not be erased. The poster decided that pasting them here is a way of archiving them for posterity, I guess, because 4chan usually deletes everything after a short time.

Posted by: .E. | Nov 20 2017 0:42 utc | 90