Missing – A Motive For The Las Vegas Killing Spree

October 8, 2017

The currently known tale of the Las Vegas mass murder feels astonishingly incomplete. Several rumors and reports appeared about a potential second shooter. But there is no hard evidence. The police keeps saying there was only one person involved. It claims to have copious video evidence of that. None has yet been released.

It seems possible that one person alone did this. A large, densely packed crowd, a position high up, automatic weapons – it was a "shooting fish in a barrel" situation – not a chance to miss.

The shooter was white. He was therefore mentally disturbed. Would he have been black, he would have been an evil terrorist. But being mentally disturbed or under pharmaceutical influence doe not fit with the long planning and the diligence of preparation.

Stephen Paddock, the allegedly lone shooter, is a curious personality. Only bits of his life seem to be known. An accountant who, on the side, made millions in real estates? He must have been a thrifty person do achieve that, with a good sense for numbers. Why would such a person go to casinos and put money into video poker machines? It is a sure way to lose and any sane persons knows this.

The above gives rise to dozens of crazy theories. The man must have been CIA. ISIS ordered him to do it. Putin must have done it to somehow sow discord in America.

All these theories miss the same decisive detail that is lacking in the prevalent tale. A rational motive.

Posted by b on October 8, 2017 at 17:51 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Susan
The story is that Security Guard Campos found a door drilled shut so he called for maintenance. Then he walked down the hall and heard drilling coming from Paddock’s room. As he got close to Paddock’s room, a volley of bullets came from the room.
The NBC interview with the maintenance guy Stephen Schuck and the recording that was released of his communication are very odd:

>> You can visibly see the Schuck’s eyes shift to the right multiple times. I have heard that this is is a sign of lying as it means that he is accessing the left side of his brain (the creative side).
>> He sounds too calm in the recording. He starts with the “call the police” but then ends with “security is here”. Doesn’t mention that Security Guard Campos was shot.
>> Why hasn’t Security Guard Campos’ call to report the shooting been released?
>> How many calls did Campos and Schuck make to Hotel Security while they waited for nearly 20 minutes?
>> Why did they both wait on that floor for so long? Neither was armed (also: Paddock was smart enough to know that most Security Guards at Casinos are not armed). If the shooter had burst from the room, these two would’ve been easy prey.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 13 2017 16:31 utc | 201

Jackrabbit, Richard and others, appreciate the updates.

Posted by: financial matters | Oct 13 2017 16:50 utc | 202

Now there are people saying that Campos is not registered with the Nevada Private Investigator’s Licensing Board as required by State Law for armed and unarmed Security Guards.
See comments in this twitter thread.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 13 2017 16:52 utc | 203

Well, I think I’ll wait for the update … The hotel has enormous incentive to “muddy the waters” and the timeline because there’s no way they’re not going to trial … the more mud the better.
Campos may have gotten a last minute better deal with some broadcaster or a “deal he couldn’t refuse” wrt to the hotel and/or the unions and their provision of lawyers and “indemnity”. In hospitals, as long as you do not violate “the rules”, you can expect to receive legal coverage (they usually settle anyway but they’re the deep pockets that civil litigation hope to empty, not some employee)
I wouldn’t get too excited about his registration, etc. At one point at the hospital we discovered — due to a simple oversight/change in employees, a shocking number of licenses had expired months even years earlier. Took months (and threats) to get employees to get right with god and get their paperwork in order, but it had no repercussions and (in fact) would have demonstrated exactly that if there had been a a law suit — “see now normal and insignificant it is for paperwork to be out of order! yes, we should fix that and we have!)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 13 2017 17:00 utc | 204

gee I hope this isn’t the update
las vegas journal: 10/13/2017 8 am.
The sheriff is annoyed because of all the unanswered questions but offers no new information that I see … (guessing he may have been removed from the “loop” because of all the leaking and his contradicting the FBI’s assessment) …
The LV sheriff being “in the bag” with the hotel — LV being a “company town” sort of place — is a real possibility … as in “what’s good for LV/tourism/chamber of commerce concerns” being paramount.
I’m a little curious how self-sufficient (in all ways) the hotels are supposed to be wrt handling disputes, altercations and garden-variety violence (a domestic fight in a hotel room) and how often they call the cops to intervene … I suspect the lack of CCTV is deliberate and tactical, although we’ve seen (IRRC) CCTV in other instances (Thinking of Whitney Houston’s death at the Beverly Hilton (or maybe I’m misremembering or it was her daughter’s death) — Granted in Beverly Hilton is a much smaller hotel catering to celebrities who have additional security concerns. If you don’t have footage, you don’t have to turn it over … still, that seems like an odd bargain wrt “privacy”

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 13 2017 17:37 utc | 205

my bad — that “update” was from yesterday …

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 13 2017 17:59 utc | 206

Some say it’s very hard to break th windows in Mandalay since they are designed to prevent suicide jumpers. Also they have built-in alarm that sounds off when the glass is broken notifying the security immediately.
Well… ? BREAKING: Second Shooter In Vegas Massacre Just ARRESTED – Look Who It Is
And Las Vegas massacre survivor dies abruptly after posting her detailed eyewitness account of multiple shooters on Facebook

Las Vegas shooting eyewitness turns up dead days after posting her highly detailed account of the massacre on Facebook claiming ‘100% more than one’ shooter
(INTELLIHUB) — A woman by the name Kymberley Suchomel, 28, who attended the Oct. 1 Route 91 Harvest Music Festival, passed away Monday at her Apple Valley home just days after she had survived the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history unscathed, reports say.
Suchomel, who posted her eyewitness account of the Las Vegas massacre in astonishingly vivid detail to her Facebook page on Oct. 4, subsequently died in her sleep sometime during the night of the 8th from what reports are claiming natural causes.
Shockingly just days before her death, Suchomel posted key details about the shooting to Facebook contradicting the official narrative that Stephen Paddock is a lone gunman. [..]

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 13 2017 20:05 utc | 207

Oops, sorry about the fake news in the second link, about the arrest

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 13 2017 20:09 utc | 208

here’s today’s “update” …. Lombardi (who originated the “new” timeline as I recall) now says there was no 6 minute gap … whatever
Chicago Tribune.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 13 2017 20:21 utc | 209

But this is curious MGM Scrubs Jesus Campos From Employee Database

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 13 2017 20:22 utc | 210

I meant first link, since I forgot to post this link:
Las Vegas Shooting WHO is this guy being escorted out of the Tropicana Hotel?
Some say:

Of the many troubling aspects relating to Jesus Campos, though, this report says, is the CIA’s flooding the internet with false photos of him—and that SVR intelligence analysts state is due to the CIA’s covering up the video of an armed assault team (led by a “known” Israeli operative for The Institute for Intelligence and Special Operations (MOSSAD) working for/with the secretive Las Vegas private mercenary company named Rome Security Services) showing them leading Campos under armed guard out of the Tropicana Hotel at the same exact time he was supposedly in the Mandalay Bay Hotel — with this video showing Campos wearing a white t-shirt and black shorts, while the MOSSAD operative leading this armed assault team can be seen wearing a yellow shirt and carrying his standard issue IWI Galil MAR (Micro Assault Rifle/Micro-Galil).

BTE there have been armed guards put by Campos house, but not at the Paddock’s house, that broken into. How weird is that?

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 13 2017 20:31 utc | 211

Mandalay Bay Security Guard, Jesus Campos, Now Missing After Scheduling 5 Media Interviews
https://www.spartareport.com/2017/10/mandalay-bay-security-guard-jesus-campos-now-missing-after-scheduling-5-media-interviews/
Now the case has taken another turn, the security guard who was allegedly shot by Stephen Paddock, Jesus Campos, is now missing. This disappearance happens after he scheduled five interviews to “tell his story” to the media.

Posted by: Richard | Oct 14 2017 0:11 utc | 212

Today’s LVMPD/FBI update.
1. NO QUESTIONS ALLOWED.
This is remarkable. Just when media and the public want to know more about Security Guard Campos – who bailed on interviews hours before (see link @200)- the FBI/Sheriff decided to not allow any questions!?!?!
All previous briefings have allowed a period of questioning after the briefing.
===
2. Time-line explained
Sheriff now says that Security Guard Campos encountered the blocked door at 9:59. Campos then had to go to a lower floor and take the elevator up to 32, then proceeded to the door. He then investigated further (he has said that he hear drilling from Paddock’s room) and shots were fired at him.
Thus, the gap between when Campos was fired upon and when there was firing into the crowd has narrowed substantially. A gap of seconds vs minutes probably reduces Manadalay Bay’s liability considerably.
===
3. Sheriff
Sheriff Lombardo’s combative and tone deaf presentation has discredited him as a spokesperson for the investigation.
Today he virtually demanded that the press write about two injured police officers. He actually used the words “I want you to write about …”. He then got emotional as he described the officers. That would’ve been fine except that he had previously announced that the news briefing would not allow for questions. So closing with this emotional tribute seemed to a contrived end to the briefing.
===
4. ZeroHedge didn’t cover any Vegas-related news today. They have been a good source for updates and although half the comments have been conspiracy nonsense, there was some good info that could be gleaned from comments.
Did other “alternative news” websites also go silent?
===
5. FBI’s continuing involvment?
Sheriff Lombardo re-iterated that no connections to terror groups or “ideologies” has been found. If that is true, then why is the FBI still involved?
Sheriff Lombardo said that LVMPD is relying on FBI resources. Nevertheless, the crime was conducted entirely in the State of Nevada. AFAIK, the FBI has no jurisdiction.
===
6. The Sheriff told us that Marylou was added to the room registry on the 28th. We were previously informed that the room was ‘comp’-ed from the 25 to the 28th. Apparently when the room was re-booked, Paddock added Marylou to the room.
We also know that he was using her card (not sure for what purpose – we can guess that it was for gambling). This is important info.
The fact that he is on video tape gambling shows that he wasn’t hiding his presence at the hotel. This would argue for the use of Marylou’s card as a means of keeping her card/account at the hotel active (if that makes sense). It might be deactivated/lose points if she doesn’t gamble for a certain period.
Why would he care about keeping her card active if he was going to commit mass murder only days later?
His concern for her account would further suggest that he is a patsy.
===
7. The Sheriff repeated that gunfire would not make a jet fuel container explode. But he didn’t directly address the use of incendiary or ‘tracer’ rounds.
He said that McCaren airport will take any necessary precautions.
That he brings this up again and provides a non-answer leads me to believe that authorities are concerned about this method of attack.
8. We are still left with many questions:
>> When was Security Guard Campos dispatched to the floor? How is his time accounted for in the hours before? Who saw him and where did they see him?
>> Why did Security Guard Campos use the stairs when responding to the door alarm? (Maintenance guy Schuck also took the stairs) Where was each coming from?
>> Why haven’t the recording of Campos’ call to Security been released?
>> In the briefing today, Sheriff Lombardo said that the shooter fired on police vehicles that were responding to the scene. If Paddock would fire on police vehicles, why didn’t he enter the hallway to gun down the unarmed Security Guard? He almost certainly would’ve know that almost all Security Guards are unarmed.
>> Why did Paddock, after so much planning, panic at the sight of a (unarmed) Security Guard? It would’ve been easy to make some excuse, or engage him in conversation that brings him closer for shooting.
>> Why did Paddock stop firing after only about 10 minutes. If he was so committed that he preferred suicide to capture, why not keep firing? Given his firepower, he could’ve held back the officers in the hallway for quite a while.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 0:39 utc | 213

Of course, the obvious answer to my last question @213 is that the REAL gunman/gunmen had to leave the room before the police showed up.
After they left, the “maintenance man” screwed the stairway door shut.
<> <> <> <> <> <>
I’m NOT saying that’s the way it went down. Just saying that IF Paddock is a patsy, that is likely to be what happened.
These are some of what argues for Paddock as being a patsy:

>> no motive: no burning hatred; no financial stress; no “ideology”;
>> 23 guns in the room (far more than needed);
>> booking rooms that over look other venues but not actually showing up – that is not consistent with his methodical/rational nature;
>> using Marylou’s card in a way that suggests concern for her losing points/privileges instead of an attempt to pin the attack on her or someone else’ (my speculation, at this point)
>> no video evidence of Paddock bringing the guns into the hotel.

Paddock may have been selected as patsy precisely because he has no motive. Then he looks like a ‘gun nut’. Or, having no motive of his own, a motive could be fashioned for him which the public will be presented with in due time.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 1:17 utc | 214

Some interesting info
1) Stephan Paddock’s father (the bank robber) was caught by FBI in downtown Las Vegas.
2) Col. Alfred Paddock was U.S. Army’s Director for Psychological Operations who “was involved with Walter Raymond Jr., a senior CIA covert operations specialist who was transferred to Reagan’s National Security Council staff in 1982 to rebuild capacities for psyops, propaganda and disinformation”.
Could Alfred have been an uncle of Stephen Paddock or cousin of Stephen’s father? After all, the surname “Paddock” doesn’t strike me as that common. Stephen Paddock’s father (Benjamin Hostkins Paddock, the bank robber and grifter) was born in Wisconsin in 1926. Alfred Paddock was born in Idaho in Feb. 1937.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 3:18 utc | 215

ZeroHedge posted on the news briefing But some posted 2 very long comments (maybe 100 lines each) in an apparent attempt to disrupt the comments.
ZH talks about the examination of Paddock’s brain, which I forgot to mention. Paddock’s brain shows no abnormalities but is being examined further (microscopically).
ZH gets the updated time-line wrong!!! 9:59 is NOT the time of that Campos first encountered Paddock, it’s the time that Campos got to the door that had set off the alarm.
ZH provides new and important info about Campos & family. It seems that they claim that they are under a gag order – but this makes no sense. They are also being guarded by a police car out front and apparently some “private security” that is unregistered.
Wow. It just gets weirder.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 8:05 utc | 216

@JR, Susan thanks for the updates.
———–
Of course the connection to 9/11 does not exist.
And the numbers 9,11 have absolutely no special, ritual, masonic meaning; never have.
So it dos not matter the event was called concert on Highway 91, 10/1 is the date.
Floor when “the shooting” took place is 32, it’s highest regular masonic degree, but probably there is absolutely no chance this operation was meant to elevate somebody, something to 33rd degree. Obviously.
23 guns in the hotel room – absolutely no secret meaning, like in Aleister Crowley’s Cabalistic Dictionary, he defines the number 23 as the number of “parting, removal, separation, joy, a thread, and life…”. Jim Carrey, did some strange comments about the Illuminati in show biz live on the air, starred in the movie “23” – no relation here. The title of the “coffee table” book by Diana Jenkins’ is Room 23, that some say is actually a catalog of clients and call girls – just pure coincidence here (disclaimer; NeoNettle has no sources for its articles, but there are some connections made in their work of fiction that ring true). Hebrew alphabet has 22 letters – the Qabbalah is based on it. Nothing to see here. How about Corinthians 15:56, Paul said “The sting of death [23] is sin and the strength of sin [13] is the law [10].” Irrelevant for sure.
And this is of no importance at all, By Blake Apgar Las Vegas Review-Journal, September 17, 2017
http://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/officials-say-las-vegas-valley-needs-to-be-ready-for-disasters/

Dahlquist said the two main disaster situations Las Vegans should be prepared for are terrorist threats and earthquakes.

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 14 2017 14:04 utc | 217

Re: Variance Doc @99
It can make a marketing sense for casino to make a winning strategy possible if the maximum bet size etc. make it rather inefficient as a way of making money, and even that very prone to mistakes and requiring a lot of sophistication and discipline. Such gamblers do not costs them much money but entice the 99.9% less sophisticated gamblers. That is more elegant than “you have to loose, schmucks”. Instead, you can win!

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 14 2017 14:20 utc | 218

I think we already have a motive. I’ve written of it twice before.
Paddock might’ve felt drawn to unconsciously re-connect with his long-lost father by becoming, like him, ‘a most wanted’ man in the last minutes of his life. That the father was captured in Las Vegas only adds to this ‘psychological motive’.
This ‘father-connection’ motive much more satisfying “he just snapped”. It provides a REASON WHY he ‘snapped’.
Nevertheless, all other possibilities have to be explored and ruled out first.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 15:53 utc | 219

I don’t see that as likely. Paddock saw himself as a winner, someone who had “gamed” various systems … mostly investing in rental property real estate so he “didn’t need to work” … enviable. In addition, he provided for both of his brothers’ and his mother’s financial security for life.
His father — with home he had little to no contact — ruined his mother’s life and abandoned him (and his bro’s).
I suspect midlife crisis … and an inability to figure out where to go from where he was — this “perfect life” which was no longer fullfilling or even necessarily interesting. He had peaked out as far as skill level is concerned and other games didn’t interest him. He may well have bought many of his guns as a “hobby” — again, materialistic bragging rights to anyone who wanted to see his gun vault … gun owners love to talk guns.
Chicken versus egg. He may have had one of those almost random, odd thought of “well, If I were going for high body count shooting, this is how I would do it …” and then became preoccupied with planning and buying and figuring-it-out …
or he could have said, I’m done but I’m not going quietly … or maybe, like too many legends, he just wanted to know how he’d feel if he killed someone (people) …
Again I don’t know. This reminds me of Columbine … except Harris and Kleibold had each other … after a point, they had too much “invested” emotionally to abandon the plan. Sometimes people seem to do truly heinous things as an excuse or trigger (one or both) to actually killing themselves …. see also going postal …
Paddock had a lot invested in his self-image of being one of life’s winner (perhaps in contrast to his dad, but not necessarily). Sounds from some reports (girlfriend mainly, but not entirely) he was in a personal mid-life-crisis type of hole and didn’t know how to pull himself out …
Shooting the security guard was a point of no return. As I mentioned, he was still dithering about setting up cameras at that late hour. Aldean’s set was the closing act … did he know that? We will never know if or when he would have started firing if not for shooting the guard .. which I presume he knew would trigger and armed response, so “time’s a wasting” and it became now or never.
I don’t think they’re going to find an externally directed “motive” … not even Columbine’s “revenge for bullying” which is disputed. I think Columbine was a follie au deux, a suicide pact, that grew out of one of those toxic adolescent too-close co-dependent friendships …

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 14 2017 17:49 utc | 220

oh, off topic, but I have always wondered why (if true) the Tsarnaev brother (Boston Marathon) made no escape plan … what did they think would happen after the bombs went off (which I think they witnessed (??))
Did they think they could just fade back into their normal life? or did they assume they’d be quickly (inevitably) detained? Again, I doubt Dzhokhar would have carried out the attack without Tamerlan … and Tamerlan was in a personal deep hole with no apparent exit sign… so martyrdom likely seemed less humliating than continuing status quo.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 14 2017 18:16 utc | 221

oh, interesting for context … bumped into this list of other bomb plots (beyond the mason jar with nails and ammonia nitrate fertilizer one) — they nabbed that would be bomber via his purchases … (he says it was never set to detonate).
npr.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 14 2017 18:24 utc | 222

Susan
If you were correct then every successful man that hits his midlife crisis would a risk to others. Yet we do not fear attacks by successful middle-aged men.
The Columbine killers had a nilistic outlook. We don’t have any indication that Paddock had such a gloomy point of view.
Eric Paddock said that his father had ruined his mother’s life. But he was so young when he left that he didn’t know his father. Stephen Paddock was probably more sympathetic to his father because he knew him.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 20:28 utc | 223

Also, if a morose Paddock wants to just “go out with a bang” by shooting a lot of people and then himself, then why concern himself with shooting at the jet fuel storage containers? And why make preparations for escape (bullet-proof vest, video monitoring of the hallway, etc.).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 14 2017 21:05 utc | 224

no, Paddock was no danger to anyone — apart from this “plan” — see also Dylan and Eric, neither of whom was likely to challenge anyone to fisticuffs. There’s no evidence any of them were violent … except in their fantasies … Eric and Dylan ran out of steam long before they ran out of ammunition, iirc, similar to Paddock.
Paddock sounds like an unpleasant person — petty and score-keeping. He bragged about opening every beverage in his comp’d mini bar but not drinking any of them …just to run up the cost. He brought his own drinks into the video poker betting area to avoid tipping the wait staff “too much or too often” … if a food order failed to arrive promptly, he’d grab another wait person and simply re-order … not a nice guy … status mattered to him .
I think he brought everything and the kitchen sink to Las Vegas … in case it was needed … in what fantasy was did he imagine he’d be sneaking out the back door …
He shot at the tanks, using incendiary bullets which failed to penetrate and cause an explosion … how terribly disappointing, but whether or not he knew about the tanks before he checked into Mandalay (and likely did a walk-around the site) I have no idea.
I’m still curious about where his girlfriend was at the time of Lollapalloza … and if in fact, as he told a car saleman, he had “relationship problems” …
Was the “other woman” he was seen with ever located?
Why is Campos “in hiding” or under a “gag order”? Because outside folks have likely threatened him and his family and his inside folks (who are probably paying for his lawyers) want to limit how many versions of this story are broadcast, particularly with the timeline still disputed.
Lombardi seems to be a home team loose cannon … The FBI is doing forensics on Paddock’s “devices” (and probably Campos’ and everyone else’s as well) …
Google says brain tissue need 4-6 weeks in in fixative before slides can be made … so hold your breath.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 14 2017 23:44 utc | 225

@ Susan:
I am a 67 year old man, in reasonably good health, and I know what it is like to be 64. I know lots of men my age and my first question was how in the hell did a 64 year old man who had not lived the kind of life, that would make him a 64 year old super human, do what they are claiming he did. First of all 64 year olds do not think or behave like teenagers or men in their twenties, thirties, forties or even fifties.
The very last thing a 64 year old who was not in stellar shape would be to want to lift 23 different arms even if only in his room. I would want the least I could possibly get away with both because they would be hard to handle without help and I would be without help in my room even if I got help getting them to my room. The second thing is that I would only want as few as possible because the more people I have to ask for help the more likely someone may discover what I am up to.
I have never heard of a 64 year old committing mass murder. They let old men out of jail because they are not perceived to be threats to society.
And at 64 years old we are easy targets. We don’t possess the strength or mobility to defend ourselves very well.
I don’t see how he had the mobility to move from window to window. That is not something I would do unless absolutely necessary.
Paddock was someone’s patsy. I will never believe otherwise.

Posted by: davidgmillsatty | Oct 15 2017 1:53 utc | 226

sweetheart, I’m a 65 year old woman who just spent 2 months clearing out a squirrel infested shed, then replaced the roof and then (just this last week) the floor (still not 100% done) — all by myself — I think you underestimate what Paddock was capable of and overestimate the exertion required … they were guns on tripods and he had 3 days to set them up … and more than 3 days to bring them into the hotel and get them all fitted up with tripods and bumpstocks and ammo cartridges … not really strenuous or time consuming when you have days and nights to get organized. Particularly, if Lollapalloza rumors are true, he had a month or 2 or 3 to hone his plan.
Now, I think his mad organizational skillz have been inflated since he was — mysteriously — installing another camera when the security guard just happened to be called to the floor … Sounds like his “block” on the fire door was “indiscrete” … since someone either called it in or an alarm sounded.
As far as we know Paddock was in good health and normal weight for height (not obese or suffering from COPD or other function limiting condition)…

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 15 2017 2:13 utc | 227

@226 david.. i tend to see it the same way.. of course it makes no sense any of it… i had heard a rumour about the fbi, selling guns and some kind of set up for this, and tend to think paddock was a patsy too.. we may never know..
bottom line, according to the official storyline paddock would have to be incredibly focused in a way that lacks a motive.. looks like a set up to me, but i have no way of proving it.. what is happening with the jesus campos part of the story? that also doesn’t add up and has been altered enough to raise any number of questions that are hanging unanswered.. no one can claim much of anything at this point, in terms of what was going on here.. it is mostly conjecture and nothing more..

Posted by: james | Oct 15 2017 2:36 utc | 228

Firstly, I’d like to thank “b” and all of the regular commenters/posters here. Haven’t posted myself but have been steadily going through much of the content here over the past weeks. Compared to many…let us say less mainstream outlets, the discussion, speculation, and conjecture here is more civil and thoughtful. Cheers to most of you. Forgive me if I format any future comments incorrectly.
@226 david, @228 james : I generally agree with your conclusion that it is more likely that S. Paddock was a patsy than not. While it is within the realm of possibility (what isn’t?) that Paddock brought 23 firearms to that hotel room with the specific purpose of committing mass murder, I find it highly unlikely. Even using “new york reloads” in which one firearm is tossed once the ammunition is expended and another picked up, it seems inefficient compared to a maximum of 5 firearms in case of malfunction. Furthermore, it seems to me that such a large amount of firearms moved into the hotel room increases the chances of discovery. Simple matter of one or two odd bags transported into the hotel room instead of several.
Applying our good friend Occam’s razor, I would argue that it is much more sensible to transport and store 23 firearms in that hotel room if they were being SOLD. From what I have been able to find, it seems that Paddock’s work history disappears in the mid 1980’s. It is entirely possible that he was a frugal and financially savvy individual, able to live (and prosper) off of smart investments in real estate. But simply enough, when an individual is a multi-millionaire with such a small “footprint” in regards to work history, social media, and the rest of it…things begin smelling fishy to my nose. On a more tinfoil note, his involvement as an auditor for a DoD agency and involvement with a company absorbed into Lockheed-Martin makes me even more suspicious.
Of course, this potential explanation gets a little thread-bare when the logical conclusion is that an individual or group purchasing arms from Paddock performed the shooting- where did this individual or individuals go after the shooting? Was this actor or actors completely unaffiliated with alphabet soup and related gub’mint entities? Or worse, was it a sort of honeypot-gone-wrong scenario reminiscent of Oklahoma City? Or worst of all, the bottom-to-top false flag scenario?
Please share all thoughts on this- even if they are kindly (or harshly) calling me a jackass.

Posted by: Sandy | Oct 15 2017 7:07 utc | 229

“High rollers” are marks by casinos. They put $20 grand or so on a roulette wheel or craps dice and so as both are ALWAYS house advantage, they lose.
Smart gamblers only play Blackjack, if rules and perfect play allow a slight advantage. Pro-video poker players? Well okay (and I doubt that annually rather than statistically, again as I said long ago some include a fantasy of the extremely rare jackpot as an average weight, which is stupid unless such a person is playing it thousands of hours a day for a hundred years).
Any “pro” blackjack or video poker player who claims or indeed does have an edge on the house might make $30,000 or so a year, at best. Any card-counters or calculators of video poker odds also to make $30k has to spend as much or more time in casinos than a person in even a $15 or so hour a job to make even that cash. And they do so with no health plan or pension or anything. This Paddock asshole either a) did not play video poker at hundreds of thousands a year winnings (literally impossible unless a jackpot hit), or b) lied about it, or c) this is ridiculous theories about the casino whacking him or something.
Or and MOST: d) this thread suffers from a massive misunderstanding that gambling is a fruitful multi-million (or even $50k/year) profession. The only way a gambler would win millions in five years is if he got lucky. Full stop. Except obviously for skill games such as poker or backgammon.
Conspiracy theories? I mean–Paddock’s shooting might be a valid one if another shooter, or etc. But the most incredibly obvious “conspiracy theory” here is that gambling via blackjack or video poker even if done perfectly would make anyone millions a year. Utterly ridiculous nonsense.
Reminds me of dozens of shows featuring metal detectors to find objects. Some of those magical units even seem to have a “only find gold setting” (no, comes up as “nickel”). Some are in houses with electrical wires and a lot of metal yet only seek the object the producers place there. Some don’t swing side-to-side on a beach but rather straight then magically find a gold coin. Fundamental disconnect between reality and fiction and how things actually work. Astoundingly ignorant. Of electromagnetism re: metal detectors, or statistics and casino practices and acceptable loss to anyone who might have an edge against those who don’t. Etc. My god.

Posted by: Soft Asylum | Oct 15 2017 7:37 utc | 230

VEGAS SURVIVOR ABRUPTLY DIES DAYS AFTER POSTING ACCOUNT OF 2ND SHOOTER (link: http://truthfeednews.com/vegas-survivor-abruptly-dies-days-after-posting-account-of-2nd-shooter/) truthfeednews.com/vegas-survivor… via truthfeednews #maga #trumptrain #trump

Posted by: Richard | Oct 15 2017 12:56 utc | 231

@ Susan. Nice defelections. First of all my first question is have you ever heard of a 64 year old committing mass murder. If there has been such a case I am unaware of it. 64 year old men do not have the testosterone of young men, that hormone that men are constantly accused of going berserk with. In fact, most men in their 60’s have more estrogen than women. If you can’t see a woman in her 60’s causing a mass murder, then it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to see a man of that age committing one either.
You did not answer my question of whether men in their sixties commit murder.
Next, you claim you could haul all this shit around yourself. Truth be known, I could probably manage it myself if I absolutely had to. But I damn sure wouldn’t want to. I wouldn’t want to take the risk that I would screw something up with 23 guns in suitcases. Pull a muscle in my back, twist a knee, trip over a step. Lots of shit can happen and if I really want to pull this off, I want as little chance of a screw up as possible.
Which is why I would use the fewest number of guns I thought necessary and the lightest guns that I thought would do the job and the ones I thought I could handle the best.
And I would not be wanting to have to move from room to room. Again too much of a chance of a trip and fall.
I just don’t see a 64 year old, who is financially secure, and who has never been in trouble with the law, having any motive to do this.
What makes the most sense to me is that he was running a sting for the government, it went bad, and the people he was selling guns to killed him, and shot up the concert. They probably escaped by going up to the Four Seasons hotel and hid out or escaped by helicopter. We have good acoustic evidence that there were two shooters due to the physics of bullet hits on the pavement and the lag time between the gun barrel reports. One from about 400 yards and one from about 250. We also have some pretty good evidence that the weapons that did the killing were true military grade due to the numbers of rounds fired. 100 rounds a burst rather than 30 to 50.
We have a mysterious hotel security guard, without a Nevada license, who is hit in the leg by a very high speed bullet and seems to walk it off, help police and others as if he got some kind of a scratch and then fails to show for an interview with Sean Hannity. And apparently local reporters go looking for him and he seems to be avoiding every one.
The hotel engineer’s story didn’t seem all that convincing either.
22,000 people at the concert (most probably had cell phones) and there is not a single video of anyone doing
CPR.
I think the 58 dead plus the Pollack are probably real.
But where are the number of casings? The casings should tell us exactly which guns were fired. Why don’t we know the exact make and model of the guns? Can we match bullets from the wounded to the guns? I have heard the coroner will not be releasing information on the victims? Is it true? If it is why? If it is not when are the coroner’s reports expected? Let us see the angle of bullet entries.
The questions do not stop. People like you make snap judgments because you are willing to accept a narrative of a lone crazed gunman without really asking questions. The Lee Harvey Oswald lone gunman narrative didn’t hold up. Didn’t pass the test of time. This won’t either unless lots of questions are answered real fast.
And for the record, I am not a “gun nut.” In fact I have never owned one, and I grew up in a house where there were no guns. So don’t pull the crap that I am some kind of gun sympathizer. It won’t work. I just want answers to some very basic questions. That is what being a litigator for 35 years taught me. And most of my legal colleagues are no different.

Posted by: davidgmillsatty | Oct 16 2017 1:29 utc | 232

What makes “most sense to” me/you seems like desperate embroidery on a not-so-complicated fairly “routine” scenario …
I watched Mateen become or was manufactured to be some bizarre “mascot” of closteted (gay) muslims … No he was, as far as I can tell, a very privilege young (q

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 16 2017 1:47 utc | 233

sorry the above posted by accident … but i see nothing to suggest that Paddock was (or was a likely target to be) a “patsy” ..
Watch Mateen and watch the Intercept data base wrt who is (and is not) considered a “terrorist” …
Afaict, Daddy Paddock was pretty much a run of the mill aspiring loser … my step-father’s father was either a “career criminal” or a loser who could not handle being “outside” for more than 6 months at a time, who re-offended to retain those 3-hots and cot. Yes, I met him when I wsa 12. He was tiny, shrunken…. pretty much toothless and brainless. he said he felt “bad” to have left my stepfather to be sexually abused and underfed by none-too-well-off relatives
Paddock might have thought he was “bad to the bone” (many more fortunate believe the same) — find me someone willing to say so, on the record.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 16 2017 1:57 utc | 234

The reason the Vegas shooting has “disappeared from the news” is that it has proven to be another obvious fake in about 20 dozen ways. NO ONE WAS SHOT, PERIOD. Just another false flag to further the push for martial law and gun confiscation. And for a couple of Jews – dual citizens with Israhell – to push the sales of their x-ray machines in every public place.

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 16 2017 4:11 utc | 235

By some strange coincidence, Greg Palast, the fine investigative reporter, (whose research keeps suggesting that it was americans, not russians who rigged the election through votesuppression, gerrymandering, electronicvoteflipping etc) , went to school with Steve Paddock, the lasvegas shooter. Here is Palasts interesting take on Paddock
https://www.opednews.com/articles/I-went-to-School-with-the-by-Greg-Palast-Brain_Murder_School_Shooter-171013-162.html
from
http://thesaker.is/moveable-feast-cafe-2017-10-14/

Posted by: a | Oct 16 2017 6:09 utc | 236

The prevalent explanation is that Paddock “just snapped”. But media provides no interviews with psychologists that might shed light on why he “snapped”.
Why? Perhaps because that would detract from the focus on guns as “the cause” of this tragedy.
Likewise, mainstream media is silent about Campos bailing on multiple scheduled interviews last Thursday.
Inquiries regarding Campos has been completely shut down(!). Campos is in hiding (protected by ‘private security’ from a security company that can’t be found) and the LV Sheriff won’t answer any questions(!).
The “Today Show” (Democratic Party-friendly NBC) interview with the “Building Engineer” Schuck was designed to confirm Campos’ story. There were no probing questions asked and no info provided about the background of either Campos or Schuck. Despite this ‘set up’ the interview only raised more questions.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 16 2017 15:27 utc | 237

Continuing from @237 …
The above only adds to these facts:

>> No motive has been found for the massacre.
>> There’s no video evidence of Paddock bringing the guns into the hotel (and he’s not around to say if he did or didn’t)
>> Paddock supposedly made at least two reservations to stay at places that overlooked other venues – but he didn’t show up (strange for someone that is so methodical).
>> Paddock inexplicably stopped shooting minutes before the police arrived.
>> Paddock (supposedly) killed himself in front of a note that contained info that he wouldn’t written BEFORE he started shooting, not after. Somehow he managed to place a gun over his leg after doing so.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 16 2017 15:46 utc | 238

2 Tony B. Paul Craig Roberts had a recent excellent post about how so many major events follow the Northwoods modus operandi. In the Northwoods plan, which was to be a false flag against Castro’s Cuba and which Kennedy refused to implement, the plan was a simultaneous combination of both real and staged events.
Roberts suggests that we are now seeing real events that just happen to coincide with disaster drills at or near the same location. Some parts are in fact real and some are fake and we seem to get mostly evidence out of the staged fake events and not much evidence from the real events.
This makes plenty of sense to me. It doesn’t have to be all fake. Much can be real and much can be fake and it doesn’t have to be the same amount each time.
We don’t get real information about Los Vegas that is in any way helpful. We don’t get to find out anything about bullet casings, or actual guns used, or which window the most shots were supposedly fired from. ETC.
We don’t get information about the wounds of the deceased or even the wounds of the injured.
Most valuable information is not disclosed and we are told what to believe. And the information we do get seems to be more fake than real.
But I am beginning to think he is right. This is the MO. Run a disaster drill simultaneously with a real planned event and pick and choose which parts of each one you want to feed the public.
My advice to everyone. If there is a scheduled disaster drill coming to your locale, stay the hell away. Get out of Dodge.

Posted by: davidgmillsatty | Oct 16 2017 17:02 utc | 239

“Six minutes in a very very long time to leave a co-worker with a gunshot wound alone in a hotel corridor — by timelines — a victim of an unexplained shooting inside the hotel (since in some theories) the outside shooting had not commenced.”
Many elements cannot be explained assuming that people who were involved were rational and sober. Perhaps the security people were stoned or something. Late night, very boring job. Another explanation can be fear — intervention right after the shooting increases the chances of being killed. There is this guy shooting full automatic, and you want to see your loving wife or girlfriend or children again. Do you rush to the spot?
Of course, you should contact police, that was one of the few times that you indeed want a SWAT team in armor allowing to face the gunner. Having prohibited substances in your body could make you hesitate. Or literally emptying bowels in panic.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 16 2017 17:28 utc | 240

Piotr
I should’ve added that to what doesn’t make sense.
If the shooter had exited the room and walked down the hallway, both Campos and Schuck would be easy prey.
Neither of them was equipped or trained to deal with a man with automatic weapons.
Most people would just want to get the hell out of there.
But they both stayed.
And we still haven’t heard the recording of Campos’ (supposed) call to report the initial shooting.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 16 2017 18:00 utc | 241

Sources of registered security workers in Vegas say no such name as Jesus Campos is registered. Pretty certain that he is holed up being guarded by somebody’s security firm. Wondering who he really is and why he bailed when he did. It smells.

Posted by: JSonofa | Oct 16 2017 18:09 utc | 242

IDK, the gun running scheme sounds extremely unlikely if not outright goofy.
The firearms in question are off the shelf and could have been bought by anyone with proof of residency – how hard is it to get that? There are no restrictions or reporting requirements on P to P sales in Nevada, so if someone wanted to ignore the lack of residency there is zero that could come back to bite them. Unless we are talking about heavy military grade weaponry or full truckloads, the idea Paddock was involved in illegal arms sales to ISIS of relatively small numbers of guns simply doesn’t make sense. Would be like illegally selling pot to someone out of your hotel room in Colorado.
He sent his GF away and gave her a boatload of $. Sounds like he knew something was in the works.

Posted by: Miller | Oct 17 2017 14:31 utc | 243

Couple of factoids pinned down … (as much as anything can be)
* Lollapalloza in Chicago was August 2-5
* Danley (girlfriend) went (or was sent) to visit her family approximately 2 weeks before the shooting on October 1
independent.
(I suspect something in August convinced Paddock of the “desirability” of getting Daley out of town, far away. I just hadn’t found mentioned how recently she had left. )
I only found reference to hotel reservations being made for Lollapalloza … I saw reference to him having “scoped out” (googled or travel searched) other sites on his home computer or phone … but I haven’t seen sourcing. No mention of his having had to pay (or how much) for that no-show hotel in August.
Apparently there are many cameras on the public/casino areas of these hotels, dull footage to be examined painstakingly to yield mostly comings and goings. If he checked into the hotel with 4 suitcases (random number), he would have only had to bring in the other 16 over next 4-5 days — one or two at a time from his car. (He had recently purchased a silver minivan … wapo. )). Buying a minivan may well have been part of his preparations, although renting a van seems more “practical”. I haven’t seen mention of his re-visiting his home (but he may have) 45+ minutes away.
To move the luggage, he may have used a trolley and a porter or done-it-himself via the service elevator. The service elevator (I’d think) was likely under CCTV for usual security reasons. Whether the service elevator had security (if using it was a “perk” how was that “perk” internally supervised?) Anyway, there may well be CCTV of Paddock bringing in his bags … hardly the stuff of headlines since there’s been no dispute that the guns were his.
I haven’t seen much as to how “dangerous” the explosive materials in the car were and/or how easy they would have been to detonate … but we’ve heard nothing about a triggering device or a “bomb” much less a “car bomb” (with all that extra ammo as “shrapnel”)
I think he may have had a lot of “plans” and ran out of time, gotten semi-cold feet, dithered …
That’s all I’ve got.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 17 2017 17:21 utc | 244

Susan
I find it a bit odd that you’ve been following the case but don’t know important details. The incomplete information that you’ve written could mislead others.
1) “I only found reference to hotel reservations being made for Lollapalloza …”
Sheriff Lombardo told the Press that Paddock had made a reservation at an airBnB overlooking a concert venue in Vegas. He said that the person that owns the place is cooperating.
Your “only one reservation” assertion minimizes the strangeness of his not showing up for the reservations.
===
2) “Many cameras … dull footage to be examined painstakingly”.
You are making excuses for the FBI/police.
===
3) “… hardly the stuff of headlines since there’s been no dispute that the guns were his.”
Certainly not in the MSM that you follow.
===
4) “I haven’t seen much as to how “dangerous” the explosive materials in the car were and/or how easy they would have been to detonate … but we’ve heard nothing about a triggering device …”
We’ve heard plenty about Tannerite. It is a binary explosive (it has to be mixed to be dangerous) and it is “triggered” by high-velocity impact (like from a gunshot). No special ‘bomb-trigger’ is needed.
Why did Paddock, a meticulous planner and bloodthirsty killer, FORGET to mix the Tannerite?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2017 18:55 utc | 245

I haven’t been following anything ‘closely’, particularly not various alternative theories … I have been trying to answer questions I had forgotten about, and verifying things I wasn’t sure how I knew what I thought I knew.
There was very little mention (that I saw) of his AirBNB weekend in Las Vegas … he did show up, he apparently did pay for the room. Sounds like — dates September 22-24, so his girlfriend was likely already gone.

The gunman who killed 58 people and injured hundreds more at a Las Vegas concert had rented another room in the city on the weekend of an alternative music festival, investigators said.
Sheriff Joseph Lombardo told reporters that Stephen Paddock rented a room through Airbnb at the Ogden hotel in downtown Las Vegas but didn’t know why.
He said investigators have recovered items and video from the hotel, which was rented over the weekend of 22 to 24 September.

independent.
Did he bring 16 suitcases? Did he drill holes in the walls and door? Did he gamble? At what casino?
Why would you assume Paddock “forgot” to mix the explosive … I thought you assumed he intended to escape and survive … so hard to keep up with your latest theories … part of why I’m mostly interested in what has been verified and reported by more than one source.
For all we know, the “mysterious woman” has turned herself in or never existed …
It was a car salesman who said that Paddock had told him he was miserable and had relationship problems, because the salesman was dumbfounded a stranger would confide such a thing …

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 17 2017 20:00 utc | 246

Susan Sunflower @246:

Why would you assume Paddock “forgot” to mix the explosive …

I’m not assuming anything. It’s Sheriff Lombardo that said that he believed that Paddock planned to escape and added that he may have wanted to conduct follow-on attacks.
I should’ve qualified as supposedly my “meticulous planner and bloodthirsty” remark and added the /sarc tag.
–

Did he bring 16 suitcases? Did he drill holes in the walls and door? Did he gamble? At what casino?

AFAIK We don’t have direct evidence that he did these things. We are told that he gambled in the Casino the night before. But was that him or someone that looked like him. We are told that he brought in multiple bags with guns – but we have seen no video. Whoever brought the guns in used the service elevator, which apparently has no video surveillance.
–

… so hard to keep up with your latest theories … par of why I’m mostly interested in what has been verified and reported by more than one source.

My ‘theories’ haven’t changed. Paddock is either responsible or he is a patsy. I have described reasons for each. But I think any independent thinker would lean toward patsy after what we have seen in recent days.
AFAICT, you have dismissed the patsy possibility and you rely on sources that don’t care to question the official narrative.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2017 22:57 utc | 247

Back to the basics. What about the casings? How many at each window and from what make and model of gun?
Any answers yet?

Posted by: davidgmillsatty | Oct 18 2017 0:16 utc | 248

New revelations to be released in next few days on #LasVegas massacre but this is a foretaste. – – listen carefully
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HLJ61rf-qm8&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: Richard | Oct 18 2017 5:23 utc | 249

A hypothesis: Two drones like these could do it, operated from a small semi secret base hidden behind a large wall to the right and behind of the stage. Google map base as to my knowledge it doesn’t officially exist.
What’s certain is Paddock didn’t do it – he was a patsy. That’s for sure.
BUT STILL QUESTION:
Cui Bono (still is original MOON question) ..& why/what motive does/would Israel have in this event, if any?
Have no answers.
Look at this FYI:
Israeli Military Veterans Built a Sniper Drone
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/lovesick-cyborg/2017/08/18/israeli-military-veterans-built-a-sniper-drone/#.WehVSUHRaEc

Posted by: Richard | Oct 19 2017 7:52 utc | 250

Feet from Stage where country music band played.
https://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-only-airline-with-non-stop-service-to-area-1721003315

Posted by: Richard | Oct 19 2017 8:03 utc | 251

WHILE Las Vegas shooting WAS STILL HAPPENING, a SWAT team confiscate surveillance footage – WHY?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_ljAp05IIp0

Posted by: Richard | Oct 21 2017 3:11 utc | 252

“…What we are being asked to believe happened is so utterly unlikely that it deserves to be dismissed out of hand, along with everyone who dares to insult our intelligence in this manner. In the end, only one question remains: How gullible are you?”
– Dmitry Orlov (October 17, 2017)[1]
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-las-vegas-shooting-cracks-in-the-official-narrative/5614405/amp

Posted by: Richard | Oct 23 2017 9:05 utc | 253

Paddock’s hard drive on his laptop has ‘disappeared’. How much more ridiculous can it get but most important of all as this act ranks up there – nearly as important – as JFK; 9/11 etc WHY, HOW did they reduce people to this level of apathy?
‘They’ have achieved almost mass brainwashing.
If your not yet totally brain dead and you can sit for an hour, this partially explains
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QOvyb_Rh0hI

Posted by: Richard | Oct 26 2017 3:44 utc | 254

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/couple-with-henderson-ties-die-in-crash-after-surviving-las-vegas-shooting/
See above. This couple died near their home in a mysterious car accident. A few days ago another man who wS in Vegas crowd was chased by two men who shot him; not a robbery. There have been more. Who/why are some people who were in Las Vegas crown being killed?

Posted by: Richard | Oct 30 2017 0:45 utc | 255

1. Air traffic control tapes on the night of the Las Vegas shooting:
“There’s active shooters on the runway. They’re on the airport property”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2FenXpNFJ0s
2. Air traffic controllers speak about what they experienced during the Las Vegas mass shooting.
(Half way thru video she remarks on helicopters “so close”)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Afd7i-qampE

Posted by: Richard | Oct 30 2017 1:24 utc | 256

@Richard Thanks! Keep up the good work!
Another Vegas Shooting Witness Reporting Multiple Gunmen, Found Dead

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 30 2017 2:58 utc | 257

Las Vegas Shooting Witness, Who Described Multiple Gunmen, Found Dead
They are mounting, these deaths – why?
http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-witness-gunmen-dead/amp/

Posted by: Richard | Oct 30 2017 12:14 utc | 258

THIS IS A RADIO SHOW WITH MOST SENSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR LAS VEGAS. IN SHORT, ALL FINGERS POINT TO ZIONISTS/ISRAEL/JEWS/MOSSAD.
LISTEN AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.
CUI BONO.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?a=&feature=youtu.be&v=gC5RUh6Z-iw

Posted by: Richard | Nov 2 2017 16:16 utc | 259

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