Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 02, 2017

Another Day, Another U.S. Mass Shooting

"Turn down the music. You know uncle Stephen goes berserk when one disturbs his sleep." /snark

One Stephen Paddock rented a room on the 32nd floor of a Las Vegas hotel. Over three days, he brought some ten guns into it. The room was chosen to overlook the space of on upcoming open air concert. 

Last night Paddock waited for the concert to start and then fired his automatic weapons into the crowd. At least fifty-eight people died and some 400 were wounded. The murderer later killed himself.

Paddock is portrait as a reclusive, well-off retiree and is thought to be a professional gambler. There is no hint yet of the mans motive. He is white and has a Christian name. Thus, according to U.S. standards, his killing spree was not terrorism.

The state of Nevada allows about anyone to buy and own automatic rifles. With one pull of the trigger one can fire off a full 30 round magazine within a few seconds.  The use of such machine guns leave the victims in an attack like this no time to escape. With a bit of training, a change of magazines takes less than five seconds. The man must have had more than a thousand rounds to cause such a number of casualties.

The statistics paint a horrible picture of gun violence in the U.S. There is now one mass shooting, with more than four victims, per day:

First 9 months of 2017:
-11,572 gun deaths
-23,365 gun injuries
-271 mass shootings
-1,508 unintentional shootings
-2,971 kids/teens shot

The Onion headlined: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens . It was the fifths time in the last three years that the Onion used the same headline and story. They only switched the photo, the name of the city and the body count.

The gun lobby will again say, "Let's not politicize this tragedy by talking gun control."

Sure, let's wait a few months, at which time there will be another mass shooting.

Every gun massacre is an advertisement for guns. The stocks of gun manufacturers soared today, casino stocks fell.

Posted by b on October 2, 2017 at 17:20 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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All this endless speculation over the minutiae of this massacre just like every time. Talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees!. This arshole butchered 58 humans and wounded many hundreds more and in a way that is too much information.
If only people would forget about this creep who deserves no thought whatsoever and ask them selves instead why it is they feel so weak that they need to bolster themselves with weaponry. Just as I'm sure that not everyone in amerika who buys a handgun needs to use a pair of tweezers and a magnifying glass to jerk off, I'm equally certain most people understand the suicidal futility of trying to resist the forces of the powers that be with a motley assortment of handguns, shotties and carbines. Even if a group managed to withstand the initial sortie, the ptb would simply escalate the numbers and the weapons until they achieved total situational dominance or whatever the military fuckwits call it.

I don't go much for conspiracies but one thing I am sure of is that somewhere in the pentagon will be a database of every member of law enforcement and armed services and the communities each one considers 'home' - the better to ensure that those sent into suppress a particular group in a particular area never get conflicted between following orders and family/social loyalty.

In many ways all those people who have stocks of arms to fight off the 'black helicopters' or whatever, are playing into the hands of the so-called 'deep state'. Owning all the weapons is no real threat to the ptb, but what it does do is create a false feeling that everything will be OK, when it won't, while distracting all the wanna be militias from considering more effective ways of resisting - ones that will work but will not provide the arseholes with an excuse to waste them plus all their friends and families thereby sending a message to everyone else about the price of resistance.

If violence on this scale were happening in my nation, I wouldn't be trawling thru every report hunting for details to build a fantasy serving as a rational to justify my desire to play into the hands of the arseholes, I would be demanding that the media quit beating up these stories because a large part of the motive which drives the mass murderers is that everyone will be talking about them for a while - they know they will get their 15 minutes even if they aren't around to witness it. Then there is the copycat element. As soon as one bloke rented a truck and drove it over a mob of fellow humans, it made headlines everywhere and suddenly lotsa imitations game along eaxh attempting a 'higher score'. That's outside amerika cos inside getting lotsa lethal weaponry is prolly less hassle than renting a truck and yer spree will likely last longer.

And no the PTB may try to separate the 'terrorists' out from the standard mass murderer, but everything I can understand about 'em has me conclude that they are pretty similar sorts of arshole. There is no difference between the latest butcher and any of the ones who claim to have been 'doing it for mohammed'.

ISIS getting caught claiming the Las Vegas slaughter confirmed what many of us had been thinking - that is many of the euro-terror acts were just isolated fucked up and twisted pricks imagining they could go out in a blaze of glory when they ended their tawsry existence, and ISIS merely jumped on the bandwagon to boost their claims to be a yuuge mob of 'jihadists' when in fact they were greedy mercenaries, a few preachers with too many kangaroos loose in the top paddock and some mixed up, exploited children.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 4 2017 13:37 utc | 201

"It is time for the elites to rise up against the ignorant masses" - James Traub

" I suggest therefore that this be sold not through a democratic process, that would take too long and devour far too much of the funds - to educate the cannon fodder, unfortunately, which populates the earth." CDN banker David Lang in speech to bankers on implementing the Global Environment Facility.

And this on the truth of gun violence in America :http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2017/10/another-mass-shooting-another-grab-for.html

Posted by: BRF | Oct 4 2017 14:19 utc | 202

I just read a report that Paddock had bought 33 of his 47 guns in the last year, starting in October.

This was also about the time that he was first put on Valium (November, I believe).

These details ("minutia" to Debisdead) are interesting given that:

1. Some have said that Paddock was a democrat (his having a Phillapino girlfriend would tend to confirm that);

2. His attack on a country music concert could be seen as an attack on Trump supporters;

Was Paddock disturbed by the election of Trump?

In that regard, the silence around Paddock - his character and personal beliefs - seems strange. What happened last fall that affected Paddock? Hopefully his girlfriend can shed some light on that but so far we have essentially learned NOTHING from those who know Paddock most.

Two ex-wives have refused to speak to the media. His brother Eric claims that Paddock wasn't political or religious. And the brother's explanation for the killing spree (that Paddock "just snapped") looks more and more suspect. Paddock 1) did a lot of planning and 2) it seems that something happened last fall that ultimately led to this Vegas massacre.

Lastly, why was Paddock so secretive and anti-social? Plenty of people own guns in Western states and plenty of people gamble. He didn't have to hide in his interest in either.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4 2017 16:41 utc | 203

Its worthwhile to also recall the politically-motivated attack on June 13th at a Washington DC baseball field, where a 66 year old white man used a semi-automatic to shoot Republicans.

"Are those Republicans or Democrats out there practicing?"

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Was the attack in Vegas a "copycat"? Did Paddock "snap" because of Charlottesville (the last major political event prior to his planning the Vegas attack)

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4 2017 17:13 utc | 204

john @ 132 says:

in Vegas there are numerous videos of a crowd of 20,000 being sprayed with high caliber machine gun fire, supposedly killing 59 and wounding over 500...

and i've yet to see a corpse, or even a drop of blood

well, i don't mean to be macabre, but...

Posted by: john | Oct 4 2017 20:03 utc | 205

I haven't gotten through all the comments yet, but one place some good preliminary digging is being done is over on American Everyman:

https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/las-vegas-shooting-pulling-america-to-an-israeli-security-state-the-timeline-doesnt-lie/
https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/las-vegas-shooting-taxi-cab-recording-suggests-multiple-shooter-locations/

Robert David Steele (who I don't particularly trust) also is gathering some alternative takes on the shooting:

https://phibetaiota.net/2017/10/robert-steele-las-vegas-false-flag-treason-most-foul-sheldon-adelson-michael-chertoff-central-to-largest-griftopia-zionist-two-party-tyranny-scam/

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 4 2017 20:05 utc | 206

Sirota reports the Las Vegas and the casinos were warned they were ripe targets ... they opted to get "special" insurance.

IBTimes: Las Vegas Casinos, Aware Of Mass Shooting Risks, Lobbied For Insurance.

Federal officials, gaming operators and security experts were repeatedly warned about Las Vegas casinos’ vulnerability to a mass shooting in the years leading up to Sunday’s massacre, according to documents reviewed by International Business Times. A major insurance company mapped out the potential for such a disaster; a terrorist-linked publication cited Las Vegas as a likely target and — only a few months ago — an ISIS video promoted the idea of a lone-wolf attack on the city. The dangers led a Nevada senator to push gaming industry-backed legislation to help casinos obtain terrorism insurance, though he opposed stricter gun control measures. Even so, the Mandalay Bay Resort may be facing a significant financial hit.

etc. (my bold html function never seems to work so I no longer bother)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 4 2017 20:12 utc | 207

Keep seeing this photo (and then forgetting about it). What the fuck is going on here?

http://82.221.129.208/supremelyweird.jpg

Cops posing for journalists, while the civilians aren't cooperating? That's about the best explanation I can come up with that fits the official story.

(Am I the one who broke the margins with an overlengthy url? Sorry if so.)

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 4 2017 20:34 utc | 208

john @209

I went to the liveleak link and saw interviews with Eric Paddock (the brother).

IMO Eric isn't credible. I think he's bullshitting.

Example: he never answers a question directly. "Do you wanna understand Steve?"... then tells some story that DOES NOT explain what people want to know: why Stephen Paddock shot all these people.

He also says that since the shooting he hasn't spoken to Marylou Danley, his deceased brother's girlfriend. She'll reach out when she's ready, he says. I find that strange.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4 2017 21:11 utc | 209

The thing I think is significant in the Sirota link is the "new improved" Nevada definition of terrorism which DOES NOT include "political violence" ... any old violence can now be called "terrorism" ... and presumably be prosecuted as terrorism ... special circumstances

Nevada law classifies as terrorism “any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population.”

The NYT questions the use of the term terrorism in the case of Las Vegas because there is no known agenda or motive (nonpolitical extortion, for example, which Vegasa has seen in the past)
nyt: Terrorizing if Not Clearly Terrorist: What to Call the Las Vegas Attack?.

With law enforcement/justice systems multi-tiered prosecutions which invoke "special circumstances" -- hate crimes, terrorism, RICO -- it's not a small matter.

I followed the Mateen/Orlando story for several months to see if they ever defines his "terrorist ties" and never saw anything, even as his wife and father were rousted ... wife (in theory) about to go on trial for failure to cooperate and basically accompanying her husband ... Once the "self-hating closeted gay Muslim" angle was embarassingly debunked, the press either lost interest or sources dried up. (Mateen's father seemed likely to be well-connected iirc)
The question of "jihad" violence/terrorism suicide mission versus high-value suicide by police under cover of political may not matter much after the fact. Mateen did not well fit the "home grown terrorist" profile.

I suspect the various authorities are eager to find some "motive" for Paddock and eager to avoid another flawed storyline like Orlando.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 4 2017 21:44 utc | 210

In an article published by The Duran, the commenter bluewater posted a side-by-side pic supposedly of Paddock after killing himself with one when alive--the latter clearly showing a tattoo of the numeral 13 on his neck--larynx area--whereas the kill shot doesn't. Unfortunately, there's no URL for the pic. Most unfortunately, this commenter tries to say that another pic supposedly from Sandy Hook shows someone looking very much like Paddock--but isn't--that greatly damages his credibility. Check it out and make your own determination, http://theduran.com/las-vegas-shooters-girlfriend-filed-for-bankruptcy-in-2012-married-to-two-men-at-same-time/

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 4 2017 22:42 utc | 211

Susan Sunflower @214:

I suspect the various authorities are eager to find some "motive" for Paddock ...
Do you agree that there IS a motive?

I don't think it's just the authorities, I think we'd all like to know why Paddock did this. Paddock was too smart and too methodical for his attack to have been without purpose. His setting up cameras in the hallway tells us that he also KNEW that what he was doing was illegal, if not wrong. He anticipated that the police would be coming for him.

I find it somewhat interesting that the attack on Republicans playing baseball in June was also not "claimed" in that the shooter didn't leave a note or tell others that he hated Trump/Republicans and was going to go shoot some Republicans. We only know that Republicans were targets indirectly: the shooter asked if it was republicans or Democrats that were on the playing field. (We also know that this shooter was a Bernie Sanders fan.)

Obviously, politically-motivated violence only makes one's own side look bad. So violent partisans might be expected to keep mum about their intentions.

Why they can't stop themselves from taking violent action is a matter for psychologists. And leads to my current understanding of Vegas: Paddock believed that there was some larger purpose being served ("justice", whatever) by his politically-motivated violent action and his psychological make-up (deep re-connection to his father via becoming a "most wanted" man) short-circuited rational thought.

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If Paddock was suffering from "Trump Derangement Syndrome", as some have called the crazed, hyper-partisan "Not My President" proto-Movement, that it is something that the public should know.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4 2017 22:54 utc | 212

FULL STATEMENT BY MARILOU DANLEY, AS READ BY HER ATTORNEY MATTHEW LOMBARD:

"I am devastated by the deaths and injuries that have occurred and my prayers go out to the victims and their families and all those who have been hurt by these awful events.

I have faith in God and I will continue to pray for everyone who has been harmed or hurt. I am a mother and grandmother and my heart breaks for all who have lost loved ones.

I knew Stephen Paddock as a kind, caring, quiet man. I loved him and hoped for a quiet future together with him.

He never said anything to me or took any action that I was aware of that I understood in any way to be a warning that something horrible like this was going to happen.

A little more than two weeks ago, Stephen told me he found a cheap ticket for me to the Philippines and that he wanted me to take a trip home to see my family.

Like all Filipinos abroad, I was excited to go home and see family and friends. While there, he wired me money, which he said was for me to buy a house for me and my family.

I was grateful, but honestly, I was worried that first the unexpected trip home and then the money was a way of breaking up with me.

It never occurred to me in any way whatsoever that he was planning violence against anyone.

I have not made a statement until now because I have been cooperating with the authorities. I voluntarily flew back to America because I know that the FBI and the Las Vegas Police Department wanted to talk to me and I wanted to talk to them.

I will cooperate fully with their investigation. Anything I can do to help ease suffering and help in any way, I will do. Please respect my privacy and my family's privacy."

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I think this statement rules out the drug angle. If the valium (or other drugs) he was taking was affecting his mood or thinking, his girlfriend would've known.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4 2017 23:12 utc | 213

His girlfriend knows nothing, worried he sent her to visit her family and buy a home for them as his way of breaking up with her "gently". She seems to have been the only person who saw him fairly regularly and might have noticed a change in his demeanor (from the Valium). My mother had an atypical (but not terribly uncommon) reaction to Valium -- it made her suicidal. She was taking it for "nerves"/anxiety.

Actually, I just meant that the FBI would like to nail down a motive to put speculation to rest (see also Mateen -- where there appeared to be eye-witness evidence which, when tested, could not be corroborated and was even disproved -- those hookups).

In "macho culture", people will find a "reason" or pretext to commit violence or suicide, rather than admit (inner) defeat and/or that same defeat may be so enraging, it simulates outward directed anger... very strange if he told no one and left no clue. Jihadist want their acts credited to the cause ... also true likely wrt other "causes" ... rather than just looking like an azzhole, y'know. There really are limits to how "nutz" or delusional or bent on destruction someone can get before it "leaks" out into their "acting normal" behavior. Part of what makes Mateen so curious.

(I've always wondered if/why the Tsarnaev brothers made no plans for after the bombing ... did they expect to be immediately arrested?)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 4 2017 23:19 utc | 214

There's enough anomalies in the Las Vegas to consider - another false flag event. The alleged perp - a retired guy who goes to the neighborhood bar, talks to people while drinking beers, plays video poker. Well off - no worry about losing money here and there gambling - moves to a retirement village near to where he can gamble whenever. In his 60s, has(for her age) an attractive girlfriend. Not a gun nut - nut an angry loner - no strong political views expressed. Neighbors or hotel people don't notice anything odd.
This is like the alleged perps in the 7/7 London bombing - could be any young Muslim 2nd generation person sitting next to you on the subway. except this is a 60 year old retired geezer who could have the room next to you in a Las Vegas hotel.
In the near past he was an accountant for a company that does work for Lockheed Martin but was never in the military. Unusual for most American mass murderers but not s0 much lately.
He allegedly committed suicide before the swat team blew the door and found him dead. A very large number of rifles and ammunition was found in his hotel room. Why so many? From the sounds of the gunfire it seems only two were used. Although the sound of them firing together on a video I watched is certainly suspicious to me. Why were the flood lights turned on after the firing started? Did this guy have the wherewithal to figure out that this concert venue would only have one exit with 10 ft walls everywhere else. Veterans have commented that it sounded like fully automatic gunfire to them - and there was more than one. In the dark, the muzzle flashes would be immediately apparent unless - one was firing from several feet inside the room from the window - however the angle of fire needed from hundreds of feet above ground makes that impossible.
So now we need to worry about old retired men, besides angry or deranged young loners. We have to worry about going to music concerts anywhere - going to church - riding on subways - going to work - going to school - just about anywhere where people congregate. Makes it hard to have a community feeling if the only safe thing to do is read blogs on the internet (and of course only the safe mainstream ones). Of course the anti-gun crowd is happy. Research the Martin Bryant Tasmania Massacre that was purely planned to get Australian gun control legislation passed.

Posted by: gepay | Oct 4 2017 23:30 utc | 215

I just read a report that Paddock had bought 33 of his 47 guns in the last year, starting in October.
This was also about the time that he was first put on Valium (November, I believe).
...
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4, 2017 12:41:37 PM | 207

The Valium angle is interesting.
I don't know much about anti-depressants but back in the 1980's a Department Manager in the Building Division of the State Public Service, with whom I had regular contact, suddenly went on extended leave. His was a "buck stops here" type job and he was a really nice bloke and very competent and professional. When he returned to work I went to see him and he explained that his absence had been stress-related.
"So how are you feeling now?" I asked.
"Wonderful!" he replied. "They've put me on Valium, and I don't give a shit about anything!"

It's only a one-off anecdote but if that's the typical reaction to Valium then it would seem to be capable of inducing an ultra-relaxed attitude in people under its spell.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 5 2017 1:44 utc | 216

Hoarse

What made him so stressed that his doctor put him on Valium? And why did he increase his purchases of guns about the same time?

The people closest to Paddock are NOT providing information that answers these questions.

And just as importantly, the media is not asking such questions.

People that "go postal" generally do so from frustration with their life. They shoot family, former significant others, bosses, or co-workers. But this guy had a good life and wanted to protect his Filipino girl friend as much as possible from blow-back (from law enforcement and mostly-white country music lovers).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 2:04 utc | 217

So let's review; a rich retired accountant with no previous interest in guns, no connections to any organization or religious fanaticism, no criminal background or any history of mental interest, and no political affiliation at all decides one day to shoot 500 country music fans?

I think this is a Boston Marathon redux because...

Man says it's all bullshit and being played through the speakers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_dNqS12dO8&index=1&list=LLXAtAABl81rZ23...

Girl says "I really don't see anybody actually injured" - (4:40) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_dNqS12dO8&index=1&list=LLXAtAABl81rZ23...

Any real casualties would have been caused by a stampede with a crowd of 22,000 running for their lives. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_stampedes

And finally, autopsies and ballistics will be secret to protect the privacy of the families, aka Sandy Hook.

I conclude:
1. the shooting sounds were broadcast on the concert speakers, easy enough to confirm this by checking how much dropout there is on the various recordings.From all I have read one of the gun sounds is that of a belt fed military weapon a la Rambo all the more reason to assume this is a recording. And the supposed shots from the 4 floor, they are strobes, the window is NOT broken on that floor.
2. IMO this fellow was a patsy, shot by whoever ran the op, are we to conclude he shot himself with an AK15? If so there should be powder burns on his mouth and nose, there are none. Any photos of his hands, they should be black from firing so many rounds.
3. look at the photo of the cops at the car "securing the area." NONE of the windows in the hotel behind him are broken.
4.the photos of his room that supposedly were given to a Boston station? I think in a week or two we will be told they are fakes.
5. Look at the photos, the same set up used in the last "events' always untrained people taking away supposedly severely injured people in a makeshift way, and what is the first rule? Never move a severely injured person. And where are the medics, the fire dept, the ambulances??
6. lastly there is a video of a supposed medic checking "bodies." Look at the blood, all bright red, yet real blood is rust colored. Look at the bodies, no open wounds, just blood.
I am tired of being lied to. I think this drill is to force Trump to trample on the 2ed amendment, best possible way to prevent a second term. I hope he is clever enough to see the obvious.

Posted by: frances | Oct 5 2017 2:07 utc | 218

Oh for fucks sake maybe one day jackrabbit will wake up and quit seeing everything through the blinker of his own prejudices.
There were 50,000 witness to the slaughter. I'm sure that anyone who bothers to put down their keyboards and circulate among other y'know real humans will meet one of those witnesses soon. Of course that 50,000 doesn't include the hundreds of LV hospital employees who have spent the last few days flat out like a lizard drinking patching up these types - ooooh maybe the entire los vegas health system is part of the conspiracy - obvious democrats I have heard some join unions /snark.
If you are really in that much doubt jackshit why don't you hop on a plane to vegas and go visit the hospitals which will either be chocka with maimed or not. When the full spectrum media were there yesterday as the orange one visited do you think that they may have noticed the trumpet was parading thru empty wards? Butbutbut - they're in on it too everyone knows that eh. ffs

In fact this conspiracy for no obvious motive is so pervasive they even have people in australia claiming to be the murderer's brother in law who says i) the guy had a massive gun collection and ii) he espoused conservative republican views.

Ooops there goes the theory of him being pissed about clinton losing to the trumpet aaaah... err..ummmm. . . .

One more thing conspiracies that claim to have the 'facts' despite one major fact, that success would require hundreds of co-conspirators, are fantasy - like the idjits who claim that no plane crashed at the pentagon on 911 cos they haven't seen a photo or some such nonsense. I saw the crashed plane live on BBC world with me own eyes - right up until the point where some alphabet agencies' arseholes climbed into the hotel room over the balcony the BBC was filming from, and grabbed the camera - not because they were building a mock up - the plane was already there and had been filmed minutes after the crash, but because someone had decided that showing a plane smashed against that symbol of imperial arseholery could encourage amerika's enemies.

Do try to keep up - at least do a little research from a range of diverse sources before you belittle the evil slaughter of fellow humans.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 5 2017 2:17 utc | 219

My impression of gamblers is that they think they are smarter than anyone else -- and he was a systems and spreadsheet sort of gambler, according to his girlfriend ....and being smarter than anyone else is lonely and isolating ... spending a lot of life "slumming" ... dealing with inferiors. Sounds like he was living the "perfect life", every day a vacation, plenty of money, mobility, reasonable (even good) health, a steady relationship (although I saw it referred to be one of "convenience" although GF said she loved him) ... Existential crisis? Is this all there is? even "Is it all downhill from here?" or something like George Sanders (movie star)

On April 25, 1972, at age 65, Sanders swallowed five bottles of Nembutal in a hotel room in Castelldefels, Spain, and took his final curtain. He left a legacy in the form of his suicide note: By early May, when the message had made headlines all over, the world knew it had a classic farewell on its hands. ”Dear World,” Sanders wrote in part, ”I am leaving because I am bored.”

The act was violent and hateful ... unless for him it was fantasy fullfillment, even theater ... I have no idea. I've seen no evidence that he was a video game player (I think it would have been mentioned if his home was some deluxe video gamer palace)

entertainment weekly.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 5 2017 2:17 utc | 220

The only conspiracy I can discern would be one where news media, anxious that their monopoly hold on information dissemination is threatened are encouraging fools and charlatans to post about the LV attack being a lie or that it is a 'false flag' - never mind it is a patently ridiculous theory since the murderer had no flag and the current mob in the whitehouse & on Capitol hill are about as virulently pro gun as money can buy.

The neoliberal guardian has been cheerleading a campaign to make google M$ et al censor 'fake news' and as is shown in this article the dupes and morons posting crap about the butchery being a made up conspiracy, are giving the MSM all the ammunition they need.

to wit:


Stephen Melanson, whose wife and daughter were both shot in the attack, told the Guardian he believed YouTube should take down videos suggesting the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history had been faked.

“When I see my wife fighting for her life with a gunshot wound to her chest, and my daughter was also shot, it’s pretty conclusive evidence that it did happen,” said Melanson, whose wife, two daughters and two friends escaped alive from the Route 91 Harvest festival Sunday night. “My daughter texted me … ‘There is a shooting right in front of us’ and another text said, ‘Mom is shot.’”

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 5 2017 2:36 utc | 221

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 4, 2017 10:36:57 PM | 225

Exactly -- there is a full court press to enact "controls" on social media and -- rather than gun control (which is a non-starter, unless some miracle occurs), this story will be part of that campaign ...

just re-upped: http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/02/technology/business/ajit-pai-reappointed/index.html

I think this actually is the meaning of Milton Freidman's axion:

“Only a crisis - actual or perceived - produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes the politically inevitable.”


― Milton Friedman

Those ideas "lying around" are current campaigns and even historically old and failed "strategies" which answer the question "what do we do now?" ... the need to ** simulate ** a response, an alternative" or "bold corrective" which is the seductive feature to explain the allure of the "shock doctrine" ... faux-innovation to uphold the status quo ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 5 2017 2:51 utc | 222

Re: Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 4, 2017 5:11:06 PM | 213


He also says that since the shooting he hasn't spoken to Marylou Danley, his deceased brother's girlfriend. She'll reach out when she's ready, he says. I find that strange.

Why is that strange? If my brother did something like this I wouldn't have any interest in contacting my brother's fiance about it. None at all. And we get on just fine.

And we even live in the same city.

And - she also happens to be Filipina to boot!

So why is that a strange comment in your mind exactly?'

Posted by: Julian | Oct 5 2017 2:53 utc | 223

frances @222:

a rich retired accountant
You might just as well have said "ghost". How many multi-millionaires are anti-social loners? So far we know of only two people that interacted with him in any meaningful way in the last several years: his brother Eric and his girlfriend.

We are supposed to believe that these two - the only real relationships that Paddock seem to have had - had no clue whatsoever that Paddock had changed either via drugs or politics or something else.

The brother talks like he was estranged and his apparent emotionalism over the attack and his brother's death dissipates within minutes (see the interview at liveleak). For example, it's weird when he notes that Paddock recently sent his mother a walker as if that indicated some great love/caring. For a multi-millionaire, a walker is nothing. How often did Paddock VISIT with his mother??

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There are many questions that are unanswered.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 2:55 utc | 224

Be sure to watch this one about the shooting. False Flag for gun control.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAysq0SDHv8

Posted by: George | Oct 5 2017 2:58 utc | 225

@Debsisdead

I'm not questioning if the attack happened.

Maybe you are responding to frances @222?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 2:58 utc | 226

Posted by: Julian @227:So why is that a strange comment in your mind exactly?Because the only two people that Paddock seems to have had real relationships with in the last years of his life are his brother Eric and his girlfriend.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 3:01 utc | 227

nyt has a profile ... nothing particularly illuminating

Is this as odd as it seems to me? -- Given what we "know" about his life-style -- belt and suspenders? OCD? Anxiety? Calls in or out ?

He always carried two cellphones, each with a different carrier, in case one network was down.

nyt.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 5 2017 3:10 utc | 228

Curious to know if there where any Nevada Craigslist postings for crisis actors lately?

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 5 2017 3:26 utc | 229

@Debsisdead

Just for the record. I have previously said (and still believe) that staged mass casualty events are untenable. They are simply too risky. Someone that is NOT involved might see something and report it, or someone that IS involved might spill the beans (even if not for years after).

What makes much more sense is that those that push the notion of a staged mass casualty event are attempting to confuse and mislead or have themselves been confused/mislead. They play on people's suspicions and dissatisfaction.

Mainstream media now points to such 'theories' as fake news. TPTB haven't criminalized dissent, they've just channeled it and neutered it.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 3:28 utc | 230

@Debsisdead

FYI What I've been saying is that the Vegas attack seems similar to a politically-inspired shooting in Washington DC on June 13 where a 66-year old white guy used a semi-automatic to shoot at baseball team of Republican's.

As in Vegas, there were no overt signs that the attack was politically motivated. All we know is that before the attack the shooter (who died at the scene) asked if the team was Republican or Democrat. We also know that the shooter supported Bernie Sanders.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 3:34 utc | 231

Jackrabbit @228--"There are many questions that are unanswered."

Agreed 100%. I don't question the event's occurrence, but it's extremely difficult trying to be a detective without having access to the crime scene. As for motive, there must be one as much effort was expended just bringing weapons into room, and that effort had to be conscious. As for the girlfriend's statement, it seemed clear her lawyer was doing the talking, but that statement didn't list the questions FBI asked or answers given.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2017 3:39 utc | 232

The Las Vegas Shooter Didn’t Just “Snap.” They Never Do.

Coined by pioneers of the evolving field of threat assessment, the “pathway to violence” refers to a series of escalating behaviors leading to an attack, which can comprise a crucial period of time for possible intervention. Typically this process begins with a deep-seated grievance that turns to motivation, followed by planning and then an act of targeted violence. Though the process varies widely in its circumstances and duration, it precedes virtually all mass shootings.

. . .

What the surprise among family members or neighbors about a perpetrator “snapping” really tends to mean is that “they didn’t know what was going on in his life that led up to it,” says Dr. Russell Palarea, a Washington, DC-based threat assessment professional. In some cases that can include what experts refer to as a “triggering event” — being fired from a job, getting served with a restraining order, or experiencing some other negative life development that can set a potentially dangerous person’s plan into motion.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 3:53 utc | 233

Interesting info about the Valium:

‘Marksmen regularly use it’

Patterson said when he learned that Paddock had been prescribed diazepam — a sedative-hypnotic drug in a class of drugs known as benzodiazepines — he immediately thought about two things:

“I wondered what psychosocial distress he might have been in and then I also wondered if he made up symptoms for a doctor so he could use the drug to make him more relaxed in the moment for better shooting,” he said, adding that “marksmen regularly use it.”

Henderson physician Dr. James Gabroy, who said he enjoys target shooting in the desert, said Wednesday that is a more plausible scenario.

“That’s exactly what it’s used for by many who shoot,” he said.

Winkler, the Henderson physician who prescribed diazepam for Paddock in June and in 2016, has not responded to questions about why he prescribed the medication.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Apparently Paddock was prescribed Valium twice. First in November 2016, then in June 2017.

FWIW Trump was elected in November 2016 and the D.C. attack on Republican baseball players was in June 2017. Paddock sent his girlfriend away in late August/early September.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 4:18 utc | 234

An apparently motiveless mass shooting. I'm reminded of the Cold War film Telefon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefon_(film) I don't think it stretches the realm of possibilities, except it would be the CIA doing the programming, not KGB.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2017 4:34 utc | 235

Interesting info from Sherrif Lombardo's news conference

1. It seems that Paddock's attack was interrupted by a Security Guard after he had been firing for about 10 minutes. Paddock may have killed himself soon after that interruption because police on the scene apparently didn't hear any more shots.

2. Lombardo also said police were still working to determine whether Paddock had any help or whether anyone knew about his plans. But he made it clear that he thought the gunman probably did have some kind of assistance, saying Paddock had prepared an elaborate escape plan that he could have pulled off alone only if he "had been a superhero."

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 4:51 utc | 236

I am glad the security guard came when he did, and that he was not badly injured. If Paddock had had an escape plan, that security guard certainly foiled it.

Paddock was a high stakes gambler. They are apparently an unstable breed:

"We talk about customers’ sense of entitlement all the time...

"You see people lose and their whole mentality changes

"You see someone smiling and laughing, tipping the dealers — they’re up $6,000 and everything’s great. But then they lose one hand and all of a sudden they’re down. Now they’re slamming the table. One card can make or break someone’s whole demeanor."

-- https://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/13/confessions-casino-host/

The only thing I can compare this event with, is the "Texas Tower" shootings in Austin in Aug. 1966. No apparent motive there either; the shooter just had some bad days and concocted a deadly plan. Paddock, on the other hand, began intensive stockpiling of weapons around October, 1966; so he's probably been scheming this thing for a year.

Being a high limit gambler, meant Paddock got and expected lavish attention from the casino staff. His live-in girlfriend, in fact, lavished such attention for a living. Paddock obviously lived attention of some sort, choosing victims with spotlights and cameras aimed at them while he killed them; and he certainly planned for a "spectacle" of epic proportions.

Barring any evidence to the contrary, I think we are simply dealing with an over-sized ego, of which there seem to be many nowadays. The phenomenon is over 5,000 years old:

Genesis 4:
23 Lamech said to his wives, "Adah and Zillah, Listen to my voice, You wives of Lamech, Give heed to my speech, For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me;
24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold."

Posted by: Michael S | Oct 5 2017 9:12 utc | 237

Paddock's father was detailed in a NYT article that noted his prison time for a bingo parlor scheme and his later resolution of his debt to the gov and retired to Texas.
I am interested in knowing who was in the rooms next to the alleged shooter. I am interested in knowing his room history in Vegas since it's claimed he was a professional gambler. I am interested in knowing if he was known to any of the dealers. Big tipper? Friendly?
I suggest that people with his spending and vocational habits are prime candidates for psychological conditioning and post hypnotic suggestion. Estranged from family, no longer term community residence, lonely occupations make him a prime candidate. The gov currently has the ability to sift phone and financial records to identify just such people. I imagine they have lists in every police area of such people. Such people would lake ideal scapegoats should the need arise.

Posted by: katesisco | Oct 5 2017 11:47 utc | 238

Rudy M @212,

If you look at the image at http://82.221.129.208/supremelyweird.jpg, at the enlarged view, you will see the two broken-out windows on the Mandalay, about 1/3 of the way down from the top. That is where the gunman fired from for about 10 min. Since the picture doesn't show flashes or smoke, he wasn't firing at the time the photo was shot. For the cameraman to get such a good shot of the police, I imagine the photo was taken AFTER the shooting had ended. Most of the cops were still hunkered down, out of caution; but one is already standing up. Maybe that explains it, maybe not.

The floor of the two outed windows (They are on the right-hand corner of the building) is completely dark, compared to the other floors. That would have been the case after the apartments were evacuated by the wounded security man and the police; so that is probably the 32nd floor. The gunman was dead by then, but it would be another hour or so before the SWAT arrived to break into his lair.

I think we've already been presented the essential facts of this episode; so now the press should be full of pingerpointing, namecalling, the usual. The "usual suspects" keep talking about gun control, as though making Big Brother ever-bigger will somehow solve our problems.

I was a teenager during the 1966 Texas Tower shooting; and it was the #2 news item of that year (after the Vietnam War) because NOTHING LIKE THAT HAD EVER HAPPENED BEFORE. We simply did not have mass shootings in public places like that. Since then, during my short lifetime, we've had several. What has changed hasn't been ownership of firearms, nor lack of body scanners and background checks. What has changed, is the American people; and the biggest change that has happened among them is an abandonment of faith in God. Previous generations used to trust God for most things; but now, people are taking it upon themselves to solve all of life's problems (including mass shootings, now). We simply weren't designed by our Creator to handle this burden; so some of us, like Stephen Paddock, have blown gaskets.

Posted by: Michael S | Oct 5 2017 12:20 utc | 239

I do not believe ONE word of this whole MSM scenario and wonder why so many here fail to see the similarities between Charley Abdo/Battaclan/Sandy Hook/Boston bombing etc.
No one speaks about the CCTV that is in every hotel but is ignored here. Were they confiscated like they were from every Restaurant/gasoline station around the Pentagon during 911?
No one addresses the fact that the hotel windows (2) were knocked out AFTER the shooting
No one mentions the fact that there were multiple shooters!!!
From reading the comments here...this was a very successful Commando attack that allowed the killing of 59 of our own just so that we're sufficiently frightened that we allow them to curtail our freedoms, invade our privacy in support of the MIC. They always shoot someone dead and label him the shooter. The only difference here is that the man did not shout "Allahu Akbar" but is portrayed as a psychotic.... We now live in a Stasi-esque regime. This "the land of the free" Americans have NO clue what freedom is.

Posted by: my2cents | Oct 5 2017 14:13 utc | 240

My2cents @244,

I consider you as worth more than 2 cents. It's good to scrutinize events, and to question sources. I personally believe very little of what I read in the MSM and the alternative media. What does that leave me with? A sketchy bit of information from the above sources, history, the Bible and my own experience. It's about the best any of us can do. Then I bundle it all up, go into prayer, and say,

"God, here it is, the best that I understand. It's a mess. Please take care of it."

That's the "Give us this day our daily bread" part of the Lord's Prayer:

Matthew 6:
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
[13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

You are concerned about the Military Industrial Complex. Are they real? Yes. You mentioned that the government and the media often conceal the truth. They do. I'm not too certain it's been done in Las Vegas to the extent that you think it has; but I'll grant you, that it COULD be that bad.

Can I take comfort, in knowing that the US is still more free than most other countries? No. I am certain that my email is being monitored, and that everyone in my family has been spied on in some fashion over the years. I'm also quite certain that our financial system is likely to collapse in a handful of years, and that we will be ruled by a Big Brother state.

So, there -- you don't have to worry that these things might happen. In most cases, they have already happened. On the other hand, I know that I and all my family will ultimately die and have to face eternity. In my case, that day may come sooner rather than later. If you were in my shoes, what do you suppose I ought to be most concerned about? Things of the earth, which have a very, very limited shelf life? Or my eternal well-being?

Having said all that, we know that SOMEONE killed 58-59 people the other day. Today, there are parents without children, children without parents, etc. They have to pick up their lives and start over, regardless of who killed their loved ones or why. They need prayer, sympathy, understanding and help.

Posted by: Michael S | Oct 5 2017 15:47 utc | 241

Oh boy (and gal),

lots of "false flag" nonsense in this thread but no sound reason why anyone would have any reasonable interest in such a false flag incident.

Some gun-nut idiot was looking for his 15 minutes of fame and got it. Lots of people died. He was too old the enlist so he played out his fantasies from a LV hotel room.

All other theories (multiple shooters, a fake-event, etc) are for now crackpot fairy-tales with neither evidence nor any reasonable motive/story behind them.

---


There are simple ways for the U.S. to avoid such incidents (which will otherwise will likely become more common). Prohibit and confiscate all semi-automatic and automatic weapons other then those of the police forces.

Most people would not be bothered by that at all.

50% of all guns in the U.S. are owned by 2% of the people.
80+% of the people have no gun at all.

Prohibit all (semi-)automatics (including pistols) and in a few years the numbers of those killed by guns, some 14,000 per year, will come down to a more reasonable level.

Posted by: b | Oct 5 2017 17:41 utc | 242

b @244

There is more to this story than guns. It is unlikely that he was just a 'gun nut'. The planning and preparations for escape indicate much more than that.

Now there is speculation is that Paddock may have planned a follow-on attack (with a car bomb - not a gun). I also think that insurance fraud as a motive is very possible (after escaping and faking his own death).

Whether political or monetary, such motives point to a sick culture. I write of this here:

Vegas Shooter: Illusive Motive – Clear Moral Hazard

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 18:36 utc | 243

Corrected link:

Vegas Shooter: Illusive Motive – Clear Moral Hazard

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 18:38 utc | 244

Seems the author is completely ignorant of terms like false flag, patsy and political agenda or the author is a mouthpiece and troll. Either way I feel a bit more research is in order.

Posted by: Kenny | Oct 5 2017 18:43 utc | 245

The Duran has republished evidence that 2 people were present within Paddock's suite of rooms, http://theduran.com/investigators-are-working-to-identify-a-mystery-woman-spotted-with-stephen-paddock/

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2017 19:29 utc | 246

ABC news suggests some believe Paddock was simply "descending into madness" over the last couple of months -- b/c he'd lost a lot of weight and was suddenly slovenly in appearance ... it happens.

ABC link.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 5 2017 20:29 utc | 247

More news--Even more ammo and explosives discovered in Paddock's car in parking lot. Sputnik reports: "'What we know is that Stephen Paddock is a man who spent decades acquiring weapons and ammo and living a secret life, much of which will never be fully understood,' Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo told a press briefing on Wednesday night." https://sputniknews.com/us/201710051057986801-vas-vegas-gunman-/

"Spent decades" overturns a plethora of hypotheses as to why and renders his girlfriend's testimony questionable, all the while deepening the mystery.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2017 21:35 utc | 248

Susan

Hard to accept "descending into madness" as a reason. This guy planned and methodically carried out those plans. He stepped up his gun purchases nearly a year ago: 33 of his 47 guns were purchased over the last year (note: not over weeks or days but months).

"Descending into madness" or "he snapped" or he was possessed by "evil" are also ways to deflect blame. SOMETHING cause him to do this and it's likely that it can be traced back to a toxic politics, greed, or permissive culture.

Nothing to see here? It's so much easier to blame guns or madness or evil then to take a critical look at one's self / one's culture.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 21:45 utc | 249

karlof1

"spent decades" paints him as a gun nut. Actually, he acquired 33 of his 47 guns only in the last year.

He spent DECADES acquiring 14 guns. He acquired 2 1/2 times that in only one year. Why?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 21:51 utc | 250

Jackrabbit @252--

I didn't think the sheriff's statement was totally truthful; thanks for your correction. Your "Why?" ought to apply to both the sheriff's words and shooter's behavior. Do we need Nero Wolfe or some other fictional detective to solve this for the seemingly befuddled? The man was part of the Revolving Door between government and MIC--Worked for IRS and Lockheed-Martin--which seemingly enabled him to amass several million dollars in assets. Unfortunately, the Wikipedia bio for him has several contradictions which muddies the water for us trying to figure it all out from home, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Paddock

I'm perplexed as to what appears to be his initial boldness then his--seemingly--cowardly act of killing himself prior to having any real pressure put on his lair: Why didn't he act on his alleged getaway plan instead? Or was that "plan" just some cop's pipedream/conjecture?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2017 23:16 utc | 251

even more specific info about the gun purchases

Why Did He Do It? Authorities Still Baffled By Vegas Shooter

— Jill Snyder, the special agent in charge of the San Francisco field office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, says that Paddock has been stockpiling firearms since 1982. However, he went on a buying spree beginning about a year ago, purchasing 33 firearms, most of them rifles, from October 2016 until Sept. 28 — the day he checked into the Mandalay, she says. All but three of those weapons were bought in a single month, October 2016, according to Lombardo.

Is that accurate? If so, what happened in October 2016 that caused him to buy 30 firearms!?!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 5 2017 23:43 utc | 252

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 4, 2017 10:17:32 PM | 222
(George Sanders, suffering boredom/frustration, killed himself)

Glad you raised the subject of aimless and 'lost' people.
It fits in with my pet theory that people drawn to acting as a career tend to be superficial, immature, self-obsessed, and with no imagination and no coherent or interesting long-term plans or ambitions. Generally speaking, they could be described as people whose solitary ambition is to become someone else i.e. anyone but themselves.

There are lots of people like that and imo Paddock was one. Once a person reaches 60 years of age it becomes virtually undeniable that your life is very unlikely to become more pleasant, interesting or exciting than it has been for the last 60 years. So if you haven't got ANY pleasant, interesting, or exciting, ideas then your life (as you hoped it would be) is pretty much over. And you're just waiting to die.
Some people find that realisation sobering. Others, not so much.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 6 2017 3:01 utc | 253

300 rounds for 574 victims... from 400 yards... with a bump stock and a slowly-melting barrel. Sure, I'll buy it. Why not?

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 6 2017 6:38 utc | 254

I have no idea but Harris and Kleibold (apparently) thought that killing their classmates (taking revenge) would be more fun than it turned out to be and cut short their killing with plenty of ammo left. Their bombs had failed to detonate and they retreated to a private space to kill themselves (as planned).

I'm reminded of a very early killing spree in (maybe Oceanside?) California where the shooter spoke of "hunting humans" ... even the "I hate Mondays" rare female spree (? playground?) killer. There doesn't need to be an elaborate motive. Also reminded of Citizen Kane and the view from the Ferris wheel (people look like ants).

Pollock by a report yesterday shot at (and hit, but did not penetrate) 2 jet fuel tanks at the airport within range and reportedly had some sort of explosive(s) in his room ... how this fit in with his "meticulous planning" I don't know. So many bullets at such range, it's hard to know how much actual aiming was involved. Festival buses and other vehicles were shot up. (Apparently detonating jet fuel by shooting tanks is impossible, and none of the fuel tanks of vehicles shot exploded).

After several days, I'm guessing that the "mission impossible" type explanatory video/audio/dossier is not in transit, was not diabolically mailed that morning, is not sitting in some mail box, "out box" or cart.

I haven't heard anything about his autopsy and/or tox reports so that will be forthcoming. Girlfriend's report of strange behavior is very nonspecific and doesn't sound much like a clue at least so far. How intense, for how long, how often, what initiated/terminated said behavior, etc.

(Only bright news tonight seems to be that Trump may have been the last to know (along with other Fox viewers) that Tillerson called him a moron. Bad news is that John Bolton and Nikki Haley are top contenders for the job, according to last weeks speculation that Tillerson would/should resign after Trump's "negotiating with the North Koreans is pointless" sabotage. I was astounded to discover that Haley has presidential ambitions.)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 8:48 utc | 255

This is interesting Vegas plot thickens: Connection between shooter and intelligence agency


Looking closely, the first thing you will notice is that the shooter, Stephen Paddock, had a pilot license and owned two planes. This is well-established fact. The tail number of one of those planes is N5343M, a Cirrus SR-20. You can see that this was owned by Paddock by going to the website Flightaware.com. But Paddock doesn’t own this plane anymore. It was grounded three years ago, and it’s now in the hands of none other than Volant LLC, which there is little information on.

However, Volant Associates is none other than a Department of Defense contractor. Meaning Paddock’s plane has been in the hands of the United States government for the past three years and grounded since – if Volant LLC is being used as a way to hide information. Considering what Volant Associates does, that wouldn’t be so far fetched. But the plane’s information is all easily verified here on Flightaware.com. It’s been in Roanoke, Virginia since April 25, 2014.

Volant’s describes it’s mission on their website as providing “the industry’s preeminent professionals to discriminating U.S. government and intelligence-and-defense-industry customers.”

The registration of this plane is also listed as “active” even though it hasn’t been flown in three years. Strange enough yet? Well, it gets even better. The FAA should have this same information. But they don’t. Their website shows that a different aircraft, a Cessna 152, maintains that tail number and it was last registered to a person in San Diego, California. The FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) is a government agency, and it appears that it has scrubbed this plane’s information. Now, why would they do that? Well, the plot still thickens...

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 6 2017 8:55 utc | 256

Michael S | Oct 5, 2017 11:47 "[13] And lead us not into temptation"

Wow. So you need to beg your "Lord" not to tempt you?

Why would a benevolent being tempt people into something bad?

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Oct 6 2017 9:02 utc | 257

FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised if the plane as a nominal or potential business (y'know that never actually did any business) was a tax dodge.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 9:48 utc | 258

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 6, 2017 2:38:06 AM | 256

I am waiting for reports of people shooting at each other for not knowing where the sniper fire came from. This country crowd would carry guns?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 5, 2017 11:01:57 PM | 255

Sounds like you know something about people. Especially as this guy must have suspected that his real self was like his father's and every son dreams of surpassing the father.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 6 2017 10:43 utc | 259

It seems to me that Paddock had a gambling problem. It is unknow if he actually made any money gambling. I’d be very surprised if he did.

Why haven’t we heard more about his financial condition?

What were his gambling winnings/losings? That info should be easy to get from Banks and Casinos. It we have heard a thing specific - only that he was a “high-roller” that got lots of ‘comps’.

Attacking these people could’ve been prompt by his running out of money?

The Casinos likely would want to suppress any info about money problems.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 6 2017 14:53 utc | 260

Jackrabbit -- a great deal has been written about his gambling ... staying only with high-stake slot machines he regularly broke even (but made a fortune in comps and upgrades, free meals and more). He wasn't a "whale" -- a celebrity of the regulars -- but was recognized as a high-stakes regular ... The slot machine players are competitors and their moves are not watched and celebrated, as might happen with poker, blackjack or roulette. I've seen no evidence or suggestion of personal financial problems and I think impending "ruin" might well have been quickly detected. Read up -- new "news" every day.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 16:17 utc | 261

sorry, that should have been "slot machine players are NOT competitors..."
he does not appear to have been particularly friendly or chatty, but that would not be expected of someone playing the video slots where concentration and something like card-counting odds are employed (he also wasn't a memorable azzhole)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 16:19 utc | 262

@Susan

I know of no official statement about his winnings or losings.

We have 1) what the brother said (that he treated gambling as a job and got lots of perks from being a "high roller") and 2) hearsay.

He was invested in his image as a smart gambler. If he had lost a lot of money in the last few years he probably wouldn't tell people. But he MIGHT double down in his gambling and last out when it didn't work out.

It's a scenario that should be considered. Gambling addiction is a real thing. And Casinos are very sensitive about it because they want to maximize their ability to extract money from patrons but still abide by the rules and regulations about how to treat people with gambling addiction.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 6 2017 16:40 utc | 263

Like I said and as I've previously linked, there's a lot of information in regular MSM new and their sources are sometimes mentioned. The casinos have to report a lot of things ... the IRS wants to know about big wins and and comp's in particular ...

He owned a lot of real estate around the country ... if he were on the verge of bankruptcy I think there'd be telltale signs, and perhaps that will be discovered in coming days ... but I haven't seen a hint that that was the motive

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 17:06 utc | 264

Susan

1. Yes there is "lots of information" but I haven't seen anything official or definitive about his financial condition. It is all implied, conjecture, or hearsay.

2. I'm aware that he made his money in real estate. Had at least one rental property (that he may have owned with his brother or others), and at least two homes.

Even weathly people can lose money, have addictions, go bankrupt.

Paddock enjoyed his status as a "high-roller". It might be devasting to him if he had to give it up.

3. Casinos have a lot of power in LV and they don't want headlines like "GAMBLER LOSES MILLIONS TO CASINOS, GOES BERSERK". It would:

- turn off customers;

- cause regulators to investigate and possibly create more rules;

- open Casinos to legal liability from those killed and injured in the shooting.

So if he had lost a lot of money, Casinos might well try to hush it up.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 6 2017 17:35 utc | 265

maybe he notice he wasn't playing as well as he used to and decided he had a brain tumor and was dying ... and angry at god decided to wreak his revenge ...
You may have noticed that the investigation is leaking like a sieve ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 17:47 utc | 266

Stephen Paddock seems to have moved to Mesquite Texas the year his father died in 1998. His father died in Arlington which is 40 minutes down the road.

He moved to Mesquite, Nevada, in 2016. That is the same time he started to buy most of his weapons.

Why would he choose a town with the same name?

Posted by: somebody | Oct 6 2017 17:51 utc | 267

Susan and Jack--

What really bugs me are the before and after photos of Paddock, particularly the pic showing what appears to be the number 13 tattooed on his neck in the larynx region versus the pic of what's purported to be Paddock lying dead on hotel floor clearly without that marking--a big discrepancy noted by numerous bloggers. I brought this up earlier in thread, but got no responses. Any ideas?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2017 19:26 utc | 268

Someone needs to first verify that he did have a tattoo... I don't see it in this https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/5324e4129057a2fabbc11440630f58d2 image and such a large visible tattoo seem out of keeping with everything I've read about him ... should be a simple thing to track down via his brother and/or girlfriend since that she's in that "13" picture.

It's a fairly extreme blow-up so what looks like a number may just be shadow (imho) particular given his conservative, methodical nature. Neck tattoos seem pretty extreme for someone not otherwise tattooed.

Autopsy report should include "identifying marks"

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 6 2017 19:54 utc | 269

Thanks for your reply, Susan. I too found it odd that he'd have any tattoos.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 7 2017 2:48 utc | 270

Eyewitness to shooting at the Bellagio Hotel, consistent with police radio reports (and apparently some early news reports) of shootings at multiple locations (later curiously disappeared in media reports):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V_gS9ythDQ

It's an uneventful video, but if you stick it out until near the end, some hotel security confirm claims she is making about what had happened earlier.

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 8 2017 0:26 utc | 271

Personally, I can't get past the idea that he somehow managed to break the windows and not have security burst into his room immediately as a result.

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 8 2017 0:28 utc | 272

some hotel security confirm claims she is making

Unenthusiastically and without much detail.

I do prefer physical evidence to eyewitness reports.

How about some of that Mandalay hotel security video, at least?

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 8 2017 1:14 utc | 273

Recap & Update (kinda long, sorry)

I've been all over the map in trying to understand what happened. It is just unimaginable to me that a smart, rich guy would do such a mass murder without some reason or purpose.

Debunked: Spur NEW Push for Gun Control
My initial thought (along with many others) was that the attack meant to spur new anti-gun legislation. We saw such an attempt at blatant political manipulation with Obama-Holder's 'Fast & Furious' operation.

But what we've seen thus far is merely a push to ban 'bumpstocks' (the device that turns a semi-automatic rifle into a fully automatic one).

Debunked: Political anger
I thought that the attack might be due to political partisanship like the attack in June 2017 against a baseball team of Republicans.

Subsequently, we learned that Paddock had considered other venues for an attack. And he also shot at fuel tanks at a nearby airfield (so he wasn't just shooting into a crown of political adversaries).

Debunked: Insurance Fraud
When I hear that police thought that Paddock had a plan to survive/escape and that they suspected that he had help, I wondered about insurance fraud. The only way that he could really 'escape' would be to fake his own death. And if he did, his relatives could collect lots of money from a life insurance policy.

But Paddock is said to have been captured on video gambling during his stay at the hotel so he wasn't trying to blame someone else for the attack.

Debunked: Anger over gambling losses
We have learned that Paddock made nearly $5 million in 2016 - most of that being gambling profits. So he wasn't in financial distress.

Partially debunked: Terrorism / Drugs
His brother has said that Paddock knew of no political or religious affiliations. Police have not been able to find any such connections either. But ISIS claims that Paddock was acting on their behalf.

His girlfriend didn't notice a behavioral change. Drug reactions can be complex and occur over time so we can't say with certainty that drugs didn't play some role.

So where does that leave us? It seems to me that the remaining possibilities are:

Tumor - Psychology - Drugs
A Charles Whitman-like tumor, perhaps with genetic disposition (because his father was also said to be pychotic and suicidal).

There may also be a psychological component as he may unconsciously feel that his attack provides a deep reconnection with his father who was also a outcast and 'most wanted' man.

Charles Whitman feared becoming like his abusive father. Paddock may have unknowingly welcomed becoming like his, experiencing a magnetic pull toward the 'reconnection'.

Drugs (Valium) may have played a role as well.

Foul Play (Patsy)
There's speculation that Paddock was involved with CIA (see PeacefulProsperity @258). That doesn't mean that Paddock would've willingly carried out a order for mass murder - one which would likely end in his death. But if he was on the 'radar' of intelligence agencies, he was at risk of being used as a Patsy. With this in mind, the security guard that first found Paddock's room (Jesus Campos) should be looked at closely:

- he was "on patrol" and was dispatched (by radio) to 32nd floor;

- we are told that he approached a room from which automatic gunfire could be heard - why did he do that? why not just call it in? the sound of the shooting must've been very loud on that floor;

- he had security radio (access to communications) and master card key access to rooms;

- I read that he was recently hired by the Casino;

- AFAICT no shots were fired from the room after the security guard's initial encounter with Paddock;

- despite a hail of bullets into the Hallway (over 200), this security guard suffered only a non-life-threatening leg injury. And instead of being shook-up by being shot and nearly killed, he stayed to help officers to evacuate other rooms (Did he know that Paddock was already dead?)

Photos of Jesus Campos (notice beard): here and here

The Patsy theory lines up well with ISIS claims that Paddock was one of theirs as well as suspicions of CIA-MOSSAD support for anti-Assad extremists.

If discovered to be true, an ISIS attack of this scale could generate the public outrage needed for USA to double-down on GWOT. It is likely that USA would send more troops to ME and increase belligerence against countries that it has labeled as supporting terrorism.

And so, it is interesting that news media have no profiles of Jesus Campos. They only talk about his heroism - I can't find any news outlet that describes him as a person and what his background is. They generally don't have a photo of him or use a photo of someone else(!) Why are the media so incurious about this "hero"?

MAJOR LOOSE ENDS
Nagging questions

> Why did Paddock make reservations for places that overlook major concerts but then not use those reservations? It doesn't seem to be consistent with his methodical behavior.

Were those reservations added to the databases after the fact? (to prevent the appearance that a certain demographic was targeted)

> How did Paddock make such large amounts of money gambling? A gambling expert making the rounds on MSM news shows has said that Paddock wasn't considered to be amongst the small group of people that were considered to have mastered video poker. In his estimation, these 'masters' (the best of the best) get an edge that amounts to a mere half of one percent.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 8 2017 1:53 utc | 274

Cops reveal contents of Vegas madman’s cryptic note

Officer Dave Newton of the Las Vegas Police Department’s K-9 unit said he noticed a pink slip of paper Paddock left on his nightstand in the 32nd floor Vista suite at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.

“I could see on it he had written the distance, the elevation he was on, the drop of what his bullet was gonna be for the crowd,” Newton told “60 Minutes” in an interview that will air Sunday. “So he had that written down and figured out so he would know where to shoot to hit his targets from there.”

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 8 2017 2:05 utc | 275

Rocky Palermo, injured in the Las Vegas shooting, claims there were multiple shooters. Notes that gates that had been left open for audience exits during previous notes were locked on the night of the shooting, shortly before the shooting happened.

https://theblast.com/las-vegas-victim-multiple-shooters-theory/

Posted by: RudyM | Oct 8 2017 2:10 utc | 276

Cuck of Alabama

Posted by: NicDonin | Oct 8 2017 6:05 utc | 277

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