Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 19, 2017

Ship Rudderless After Trump Drops Its Pilot

The Trump presidency that we fought for, and won, is over,” Bannon said Friday, shortly after confirming his departure. “We still have a huge movement, and we will make something of this Trump presidency. But that presidency is over.”

Bannon was the "Make America Great Again" guy in the White House. The strategist who had the populist ideas that brought the votes for Trump. Jobs, jobs, jobs,  infrastructure investments, immigration limits, taxing globalists were his issue.


Dropping the pilot - Punch 1890

Trump is no young German Emperor and Bannon is no chancellor Bismark. (Both would probably have liked those roles.) But with Bannon leaving, the Trump presidency is losing its chief strategist, the one person which set priorities and could set an alternative course for the ship of state under Trump's command.

The racist Huffington Post headline implies that Bannon prioritized the wrong country.

Haaretz notes that his ouster was hailed by U.S. Jewish groups.

The reason is not that Bannon is anti-semite or a Nazi - he is neither. (It was the Obama administration, not Trump, which voted against the UN anti-Nazi resolution.) Bannon was anti-Islamist and anti-Iran which fitted the Zionist program. But he was also against the waste of U.S. assets and capabilities for the welfare of other countries. He was anti-empire and anti-war. Only yesterday a NYT portrait of him noted:

General McMaster has become Mr. Bannon’s nemesis in the West Wing, the leader of what Mr. Bannon has described to colleagues as the “globalist empire project” — a bipartisan foreign policy consensus that emphasizes active American engagement around the world.

Mr. Bannon flatly rejects that philosophy.
...
Once Mr. Trump was in office, Mr. Bannon opposed the missile strike on Syria after President Bashar al-Assad used chemical weapons on his own people. He has expressed doubts about sending more troops to Syria or Iraq. He is skeptical of American military intervention in strife-torn Venezuela, a prospect raised last week by Mr. Trump, who surprised administration officials by speaking of a “military option” there.

Bannon was also against the imperial projects in Afghanistan, North Korea and elsewhere. Then the empire stroke back at him.

The White House is now under command of military hawks and interventionists. A triumvirate of war-losing Generals, Kelly, Mattis and McMaster, is in control of U.S.  policy. That policy will likely be similar to the one we expected under a Hillary Clinton administration. The neocons, pushing for a dangerous crisis, are winning and the liberals are loving it.

It is not clear at all who will now set the overall political calendar for the Trump presidency. When will what policy initiative be launched? Will it collide with other initiatives? Who will coordinated this with Congress? What priorities must be given to this or that? The four star general Chief of Staff and the three National Security Advisor are neither trained nor capable to evaluate or take such political decisions. Who, after Bannon, is thinking about these issues?

Interestingly Bannon was one of the few untouched by the Russia investigations. Trump would not have been elected without him. He himself is now the only one in the White House who somewhat holds the policy views that got him the necessary votes. It is doubtful that he will be able to translate those into politics. He is (like Bannon) too inexperienced in handling the Washington ship of state to survive by himself. He is incompetent in selecting staff and disloyal to his subordinates. Only the fear of the religious craziness of Vice President Pence prevents, for now, his impeachment. Trump is not happy with his situation.


Source: White House - bigger

Bannon came in to drain the swamp but the swamp drowned him. He will now go back to Breitbart.com and will "go to war for Trump". It is the website where he, as executive chairman, first promoted his right-wing nationalist views. Bannon will surely continue to make waves. But I doubt that it will be able to help Trump to implement what Bannon and Trump himself intended to do. As a well known public person once observed:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

It's almost like the United States has no President - we are a rudderless ship heading for a major disaster. Good luck everyone!

Posted by b on August 19, 2017 at 8:33 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@psychohistorian 85

We express things differently, but think very much alike.

The water and sewage system is a good example, but you could take any basic utility/ basic human need: Everyone needs it, but there's no need for 'growth' and little if any room for efficiency gains. So the only ways to profit as a private investor are to overcharge users or to pay miserable wages and let the infrastructure rot.

Private enterprise and competition can work miracles when an economic sector is rapidly developing, expanding and advancing technologically. Governments should encourage this, so I don't think they're (purely) socialistic. But once the sector is 'grown-up' and enters a more or less 'steady state', there's neither room nor justification for profits. It becomes more important to provide high-quality services to everyone(!) while using as little natural resources as possible - and for this, a democratic form of organization is much more fitting than a private profit-driven one (which strives to maximize throughput).

I'm cautiously optimistic. My impression is that more and more people realize that in our time, 'democracy', 'equal rights' and 'sustainability' more important than 'profits' and 'growth'...don't you think?

nb...'posit' - I just learned a new word, thanks!

@somebody 98

Thanks for pointing out the uncertainty and 'volatility'/ VIX bit. I agree it's what speculative investors like hedge funds need and thrive on - so it's what they try to promote by all means (cf. certain websites).
Especially now that we are saying goodbye to the 'growth' phase of the economy and entering a 'steady state' (s.ab.), financial market volatility is increasingly the only thing to reap (relevant) profits from. It's a fight between the pro-stability and the 'profit at all cost' factions - luckily, the former is winning.

Posted by: smuks | Aug 20 2017 12:45 utc | 101

#101 smuks

I'm cautiously optimistic. My impression is that more and more people realize that in our time, 'democracy', 'equal rights' and 'sustainability' more important than 'profits' and 'growth'...don't you think?

realising changes nothing

besides, you believe in democracy (what gave us countless wars (with two world wars)?

Posted by: From The Hague | Aug 20 2017 13:09 utc | 102

102
People wizen up.

101
I think it is mainly the regulation and taxation threat that makes them fight tooth and nail.

But yes, hedge funds like volatility. So any rumour mill is welcome.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 13:15 utc | 103

Posted by: somebody | Aug 19, 2017 9:53:06 AM | 22

Whatever you are smoking certainly looks like great stuff.

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Aug 20, 2017 3:20:34 AM | 94

Bravo.

Let's add the US is certainly a fascist country, but that is nothing new. Fascism, as defined by its inventor Benito Mussolini, is characterized by the protection of private assets/corporations by the power apparatus of the state, in particular the military and police.

If there is a better definition of the United States, I'd love to hear it. And it's been like that from day one.

Posted by: Lea | Aug 20 2017 13:37 utc | 104

CNN Smears Again! Don Lemon Implies Breitbart Platform for Nazis
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/19/cnn-smears-again-don-lemon-implies-breitbart-platform-for-nazis/

See the pattern - everyone is a "nazi" these days according to the liberal MSM that of course have the "correct" news, worldview.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 13:53 utc | 105

104
Don't spread fake news.

This is Mussolini in his own words.

War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or deat ... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society... ... After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absur[d] conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress...

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 13:53 utc | 106

Fascism is collusion between government and big business. Pay to play.

Get elected, get paid. Accept the payola and serve big business at the expense of your constituents. IF you don't play, you won't get re-elected.

If you intend, with pure motives like Mr. Smith, to go in and clean it up, you will be out on your ass after one miserable term. And nobody will sit with you in the lunch room.

Fascism is the American Way.

Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 20 2017 14:01 utc | 107

107

Of course you can make up your own definition of fascism but don't expect fascists to agree.

Fascists don't worry about reelection. They only have to come to power once.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 14:35 utc | 108

Americans are literally brainwashed when it comes to capitalism. Even as it impoverishes them, decimates the middle-class and forces them to surrender their liberty and dignity to the rich and powerful many STILL hold out for some mythical "pure" capitalism that does not generate poverty and misery as collateral damage.

Who knew masochism and a desire for extreme depravity and degradation is at the core of the US national psyche. Fascinating!
Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Aug 20, 2017 3:20:34 AM | 94

I would agree in part. First, looking at USA, EU, Japan etc. people are not THAT impoverished etc. Would the poverty etc. be really a big problem, we would see more "revolutionary mood". South Europe was hit hard, and someone cited "increasing number of leftist terrorist attacks" that is affecting not EU as the whole but Greece, Italy and Spain -- and it correlates with fast drop in incomes and general political instability, rise of new parties etc.

Second, I have no idea how to replace "capitalism", and I did not notice anything really promising. Cuba and North Korea do function as societies (well, they did not collapse), but can you advocate them as a model for more complex economies? They may also be short of "dignity and liberty" :-(. "Adjusting capitalism" is more promising IMHO. But it is not simple to design and explain how to adjust, and indeed, the people who thrive on the status quo dominate the political system, and additions like "intellectual system". So when Mr. Trump comes to Washington and tries to do "something marvelous", he has nobody that can translate "we need something marvelous" into doing this or that. AFAIK, Bannon himself is a slogan monger, not a "technician" who can run a part of government.

Were such woes restricted to a single party, or even to just two parties, we would not be in the current troubles.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 20 2017 14:41 utc | 109

The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’. The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another. In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using that word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different.

Posted by: From The Hague | Aug 20 2017 14:47 utc | 110

#109 Piotr Berman

Second, I have no idea how to replace "capitalism", and I did not notice anything really promising. Cuba and North Korea do function as societies (well, they did not collapse), but can you advocate them as a model for more complex economies?

Maybe without all those sanctions.

But China is a working model for a more complex economy.

Posted by: From The Hague | Aug 20 2017 15:00 utc | 111

While the state must carry huge incidental expenses, the big capitalists themselves have to stand a certain number: “voluntary contributions” extorted by the party and its “welfare” undertakings; various subscriptions; “graft” and seats on the boards of directors of big companies for the “upper crust” of the fascist leaders, etc. But these incidental expenses, the importance of which must not be exaggerated, are less annoying to big business than the demagogic agitation indulged in by the fascist plebeians – agitation which, despite purges and repressions, periodically reappears, though within constantly narrower limits.

Again, while big business approves of an aggressive policy that brings it new armament orders, it is afraid lest the fascist leaders, in seeking a diversion from the wretchedness of the people, provoke a premature war which will result in the isolation of the country and its defeat. It is especially significant that in the autumn of 1935 it was the fascist leaders, Farinacci, Rossoni, and others, who urged Mussolini into conflict with England.

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/guerin/1938/10/fascism.htm

Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 20 2017 15:05 utc | 112

110 - the definition is pretty simple

Definition of fascism

1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 15:06 utc | 113

"Fascism is collusion between government and big business. Pay to play."

Given that power allows to control resources, it allows to get money or whatever resource control exists (e.g. land estates in feudalism), so political systems have components of "power gives money" and "money gives power" in varying proportions. Fascism has some equilibrium of the two, but to define it as a special variety of government you need to list more features.

I guess that in the context like USA you can point to vilification used as a tool of public manipulation as a "fascist feature". True, IMHO, but that feature is invented by "fascism proper", it is fascistic in terms of being a malicious power technique. However, it lacks a catchy name. Should it be called "fascism"? That would be ironic, because that would be using vilification to eliminate vilification. It also leads to the type of discourse in which mere volume wins, and this is one of mechanisms of converting money to power.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 20 2017 15:07 utc | 114

@From The Hague 102

Realizing changes everything - in the longer run at least.
Democracy gave us World Wars? lol, you serious?

@somebody 103

Which comes down to the same imo, since regulation reduces volatility and other ways of making illicit profits.

@Lea, fast freddy

That's not 'fascism', it's rather capitalism controlling the state, or trying to.

There are several valid ways to define 'fascism' afaict.
One calls it 'the rule of the most reactionary, most chauvinist parts of financial capital', another says it's 'an ideology which defines certain groups of people as 'inferior' and denies them the most basic rights, even the right to exist' (from memory, not exact wording).
I would argue that both are complementary rather than contradictory.

@Piotr Berman 109

How about we replace it with a (mostly decentralized) democratic organization of the economy, with 'money'/ investment capital as a public good that does not require any yield?
:-)

Posted by: smuks | Aug 20 2017 15:23 utc | 115

113 somebody

Too simple for somebody with the name George Orwell

https://faculty.washington.edu/rsoder/EDLPS579/HonorsOrwellPoliticsEnglishLanguage.pdf

115 smuks

How about we replace it with a (mostly decentralized) democratic organization of the economy, with 'money'/ investment capital as a public good that does not require any yield?

Political language — and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists — is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

Posted by: From The Hague | Aug 20 2017 15:36 utc | 116


FLASHBACK: After Black Radical Massacred Dallas Officers, Obama Didn't Condemn Black Racism
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19689/flashback-after-black-radical-massacred-dallas-james-barrett

Now was Obama also a "nazi"? A "fascist"?

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 15:53 utc | 117

@ From The Hague who wrote: "But China is a working model for a more complex economy."

Exactly! China has planned and executed 12-13 5-year plans, reduced poverty immensely and yet all we hear in the West besides crickets about the situation is TINA!!!!!!!!!

I read all this commenting about fascism but no link to a compelling definition

Fourteen Defining 
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 20 2017 15:54 utc | 118

118 psychohistorian

I wonder which country shows the most Defining Characteristics Of Fascism.
Maybe that one:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Rogue_State_Blum.html

Posted by: From The Hague | Aug 20 2017 16:13 utc | 119

116

This here is Orwell in 1944

But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.

Orwell's problem is that thinking one race superior to the other would have applied to the colonialist British conservatives of his time (and the United States) and authoritarian rule and anti-individualism to Stalin.

In 2017 Merriam Websters definition is valid

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader.

British and US political systems were about the individual and never autocratic, whilst the Soviet Union emphasized class, not nation or race.

117
You are spreading fake news.

President Obama speaks at Dallas shooting memorial service

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 16:41 utc | 120

how about coming up with some new terms???

i thought corporatism was good... it seems to capture a lot of what is going on in the west today where corporations control politicians, especially the big ones i have mentioned previously - exxon, goldman sachs, and the military builders/contractors... aren't those the ones inside of every friggin' ''''new'''' usa gov't that comes along?

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2017 16:49 utc | 121

Francis @68 - Refreshing to read a comment by someone who obviously has made it her/his business to understand Trump and Team from the conservative perspective. Great comment and spot on IMHO.

For the record, Mr. Bannon gave notice on 8/7 to POTUS. As well, Mr. Bannon, when appointed to Trump's cabinet, stated for any who bothered to read/listen that he would accept under one condition, which was he'd be leaving the WH in eight months. Eight months brings us to 8/7. No one fired him. He is back at Breitbart as its Chairman.

Bannon's interview with the American Prospect last week was his shot across the proverbial bow aimed directly at the globalists who are determined to keep their march toward raping the world from all her resources aka the NWO/neocon/neolib mafia while fomenting more war(s).

Bannon with Mercer and et al backing (and I can make a pretty solid educated guess that there are others) have been developing a new media platform of some kind which will be launched in weeks not months (another educated guess). Sinclair broadcasting has been mentioned on other conservative platforms as getting ready to make a move of some kind as well.

As Breitbart's editor wrote on Friday following the Bannon announcement - "WAR" - is unequivocally that sites way of saying the Swamp in DC is going to be drained. Indeed, Trump and Team have already begun to roll out their 2018 election strategy.

Any who hold the belief that Trump is stupid, naive, or whatever derogatory statement conjured up is just plain wrong and shouldn't be taken seriously by any here who know better.

Trump is a businessman. Trump is not a politician. And he certainly wasn't elected to serve as America's grandpa-he ain't gonna hold your hand...ever.

If you are unaware of the current round of NAFTA negotiations, now in its fourth day, w/Canada and Mexico OR if you are unaware that on Friday the Trump administration formally launched a Section 301 Trade investigation into China's trading practices, then you are not paying attention to what the right hand is doing.

There is always much going on behind all of the noise the insufferable Left makes on a daily basis. Apparently, they don't want you to know about any of the plethora of Executive Orders
signed, the roll back of regulations zero and czars put in place, the trade negotiations and so, so much more.

On the other hand, conservative sites are all over the blogosphere report daily what this administration is doing and how it is succeeding. Bannon remains a phone call away.

Oh, and btw, it was Kushner and his data operation who carried Trump over the finish line not Bannon and his policy positions.

Posted by: h | Aug 20 2017 16:52 utc | 122

james @121

I believe you are onto something when you suggest that the US is becoming a state ruled by corporations. In contrast, both Fascism and national socialism directed corporations to meet state end: "Difference Between Fascism and Nazism"
http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-fascism-and-nazism/

"1.Fascism is a term that was originally referred to the fascists of Italy under Mussolini. Nazism on the other hand, referred as National Socialism, is in an ideological concept of the Nazi Party.
2.For Fascists, the state was the most important element. But Nazism emphasized on racism.
3.While fascism considered state as important, Nazism considered ‘Aryanism’ as more important."

The US alternative to fascism and national socialism can be visualized by the movie "Rollerball" where the "corporations rule the world" and government is subservant to them (see David Korden's book by the same name. The circus' for the proles merely serve to distract them by providing a false identity politic associated with a particular "team". The history the Hanseatic-League also provides some inspiration for this system:
http://www.bergen.hanseatic-league.com/history.html

Cannot wait for football season to arrive so we can go back to the regularly scheduled sports "programming"(go seahawks. sic).

Posted by: Krollchem | Aug 20 2017 17:12 utc | 123

123

I think it is billionaires and speculation, not corporations.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 17:40 utc | 124

somebody

Read my link, he didnt condemn black racism.
Funny also you say "fake news", last day it was a nazi technique according to yourself (lugenpress).

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 17:46 utc | 125

it is amazing how many here will believe what Trump and Bannon and company spew
but when Obama said something whether true or false it was always a lie your eyes.
Trump has lied from day one and they have been verifiable but ignorant people will
believe anything that is repeated enough. Remember WMD and Iraq. Trump told us during
his campaigning that he was a liar and would do all he can to help those that are like
him rich and want more. the likes of Anon and Just sayin are too wrapped up in their dreams
of "make America Great Again" that they even can't accept real History only their distorted
version. Confederates fought to save slavery because it made them money, to deny this shows
your biased ignorance. Under mthe leadership of Lee Davis ordered his men to kill all blacks
that were captured from the Union, but in your eyes there is nothing racist about that or at least
by the words you lay down here it would seem that way

Posted by: Rodger | Aug 20 2017 17:57 utc | 126

Rodger

You seems very naive if you believe Trump would have no problem carrying out his policies, hes like any other president in this regard. You dont give up like you seems to do if it occur some trouble along the way for the president, especially since MSM, deep state is attacking him and will do apparently til he steps down and they could themselves take over. That could be very dangerous, especially since you raised Iraq, WMD, you hav eno idea what could occur if these people get more power apparently.
And ruining statues, that is something Daesh also does, I dont think one should support that.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 18:35 utc | 127

@6, Why? Flynn was the foremost person in the admin pushing for military conflict with Iran. He didn't even wait two weeks after the inauguration to put "Iran on notice." That's Bush aides planning Iraq invasion the week of the inauguration level bad.

Posted by: Greg M | Aug 20 2017 18:38 utc | 128

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20, 2017 1:46:27 PM | 125

From Obama's speech at the Dallas memorial for the six police officers

With an open heart, we can worry less about which side has been wronged, and worry more about joining sides to do right

(APPLAUSE)

Because the vicious killer of these police officers -- they won't be the last person who tries to make us turn on one another. The killer in Orlando wasn't nor was the killer in Charleston. We know there is evil in this world, that's why we need police department departments.

What is there not to understand?

sorry not "fake news", you are spreading "alternative facts".

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 18:45 utc | 129

@123 krollchem.. thanks... obviously there is a need for other words to describe the uniqueness of the situation at present.. maybe it is not all that unique, but terms like fascism and nazi seem outdated, however much they still might apply and i think something different is happening.. i have enjoyed fast freddys thoughts on this, although i think ff is trying to use the term fascism in a new way.

@124 somebody.. it is hard to know how to separate all of that.. as an example - is it bill gates, or is it microsoft or is it a bit of both? i think the stock market, people relying on rrsps ( here in canada ) or what ever folks have in other countries where pension plans and all sorts of retirement plans are intimately tied to the stock market, makes the world financial markets pivotal to our way of moving forward here, or not... as naomi klein mentions in her latest book, it is hard to support goldman sachs and solar powered whatever living in the same universe.. people in the west want a continuation of all of this, but it is built up on a world where finances - world finance - has to be examined and altered.. at present the world financial systems favour some nations over others.. those same nations would like to keep it this way.. now, whether it is nations, or powerful financial interests that are dictating all this - we still seem to be in a place where war to control the system at present, is the default position for it all..

sorry for the slight rant.. there is no easy way forward as i see it.. something has to break in order for a new system to come into place.. for me, the usa as the leader of the western world since the 1st or 2nd world war - is falling apart.. trump is further proof of it.. now, it might take some time for it to completely fall apart, but the world is changing and in ways that are unpredictable too at this moment in time. it would be nice to have a smooth transition, but it doesn't look like it is in the cards at present... trump is just a figurehead for a later stage in the falling apart of a system that is no longer working for many people... whether that is called 'neoliberalism' run amok, or whatever - things ain't working here as i see it..

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2017 18:54 utc | 130

Let's step into the way-back machine and revisit the second term of Mr. William Jefferson Clinton. Landing in 1994, we see that Team -R has captured a majority in the House and Senate, and is working tirelessly to bring Mr. Clinton's presidency down.

Interestingly enough, while Team-R was beating the shit out of the Team_D President, Mr. Clinton was cheerfully carrying water for them by passing NAFTA and repealing Glass-Stegal while pushing through an early version of the USA Patriot Act.

Looking in the rear view mirror we can now see that there was no real conflict between Teams -R and -D. Given that they are owned by the same folks, it should not be surprising that they have common agendas, albeit with different roles to play in the kabuki theater used to distract us from:

1. Reduction in $ value as petro-dollar/reserve currency advantage disappears and $ come home. Expect increase in cost of foreign goods.

2. Massive, unsustainable debt load. The US is bankrupt and will, sooner or later, have to sell assets to settle the debt. Think of Grand Coulee Dam dam owned by an international consortium
headed by Nestles. How about the entirety of all public lands in Eastern Oregon going to the Chinese. Consider the "what the market will bear" prices you'll pay for services from an infrastructure that you previously paid to build with tax dollars, e.g. Montgomery, Al sewer plant.


3. The world is on the cusp of a grand solar minimum. In most areas, the climate will become colder and wetter which will have a dramatic impact on crop production. This is already being felt - a substantial fraction of the Midwestern wheat sown this year was destroyed in June by a freak snow storm.

To summarize, the US is well and truly screwed and there is literally no way out. We are in a fully loaded 18-wheeler speeding down the highway to hell with the throttle fire-walled and the turbo screaming. Inside the cab, we're drinking Wild Turkey and playing on our smart phones. A few minutes ago we passed a sign that I think said, "Bridge Out - 3 mi". Actually I'm not sure about the number. It was either that or a 2, but it might have been 5.

"Hey, Libtard! Pass the bottle over here and let me tell you why your position on transgender bathrooms is so fucked up."



Posted by: Ageless Yankee | Aug 20 2017 18:54 utc | 131

somebody

Its very easy actually, "I condemn black racism" like you guys demand that Trump do for white racists. That is the hypocrisy you guys dont understand, I am sorry if I declared it bad but if you dont comprehend that - I cannot help you anymore on this.
Your entangling in "fake news" vs "alternative facts" is quite funny. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 18:59 utc | 132

IN fifty years, very little has been done by US Federal Government which benefits the common citizen. A great deal has been done to facilitate the degradation of the common citizen by the global one percent. We have a new world order as called for by GHW Bush.

Based on historical evidence, to believe that Trump (with his party - Republican control of House and Senate) will change our course is naive.

By contrast, Obama D had both houses also - we got WAR, cash for clunkers, foreclosures, bank bailouts and health care by AHIP with runaway costs.

Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 20 2017 19:12 utc | 133

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20, 2017 2:59:48 PM | 132

No. Trump was asked to condemn White Suprematists, Nazis and the KKK.

Is there any organization claiming "black supremacy"? Black Lives Matter seem to demand equality.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 19:16 utc | 134

132 Fake News versus Alternative Facts.

I was quoting Kellyanne Conway who coined the expression. Both are the same thing. For the gullible stupid people.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 19:17 utc | 135

somebody

When a black guy deliberately target white persons its not a racism that has to be condemned?

Kellyanne : I mispoke
https://tinyurl.com/ybbmuv5y
You constantly entangling yourself all the time lol or is it deliberate "alternative facts"?

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 19:25 utc | 136

ANON
Trump is and has been carrying out his own policies to enrich those that already have everything and
to repeal any regulations that were put into place to protect the people. Have you not noticed that
he lined his cabinet with Goldman Sachs (which he blasted HRC for associating her self with.
Like I said he and his gang are doing what they want to help enrich themselves on the backs of the rest
of us. Wake up and quit upholding these lying pieces of excrement they are no different than the ones
before them. Trump is a dirty businessman the things that he is doing are to benefit him and his family
and to screw the rest of us and tell us how great it is for us. You my man have drank from the Trump cup
and think that anything that speaks against him is "fake news" when in reality Trump and the likes of
Breitbart are the "fake news" a little truth but a bunch of spin

Posted by: Rodger | Aug 20 2017 19:37 utc | 137

Rodger

Unfortunaly he hasnt been able due the war from the already mentioned parties. Anyway there are tons of info on who voted for him. Look
that up. If he succeeds? We will see, no need to whine already.
Breitbart isnt "fake news" but if you like labels, keep using them, they empower sites like Breitbart.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 19:45 utc | 138

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20, 2017 3:25:37 PM | 136

Or reverse racism. This was the situation in which Obama spoke in Dallas.

On July 7, 2016, Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed and fired upon a group of police officers in Dallas, Texas, killing five officers and injuring nine others. Two civilians were also wounded. Johnson was an Army Reserve Afghan War veteran who was reportedly angry over police shootings of black men and stated that he wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers. The shooting happened at the end of a protest against police killings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, which had occurred in the preceding days.

As Obama said

With an open heart, we can worry less about which side has been wronged, and worry more about joining sides to do right

Do you really think, in this situation, Obama should have condemned police shooting black people as "white racists" and condemn a black guy who targeted any white policemen in crazed retaliation for "black racism".

These were the police killings the protests were about.

Philando Castile was shot in his car in St Paul, Minnesota, on Wednesday as he reached for his driving licence, his girlfriend said in a Facebook Live video taken during the aftermath. ... On his Facebook page, Clarence later re-posted comments by a Minnesota bishop, Divar Kemp, calling Philando Castile "an a1 genuine man who was killed because he obeyed what the officer asked him". ...

This here on Alton Sterlin

Edwards said today, "It is now up to the Louisiana Department of Justice ... to determine whether any state charges will be brought."

"While we await that decision," Edwards said, "and as I've said many times ... we still have too many people in our community who are afraid of the police and too many police officers afraid of members of our community."

"We all have a role to play to make things better," Edwards said


To pour gasoline on a situation like this would be irresponsible, don't you think? Especially with gun laws being what they are in the US?


Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 20:02 utc | 139

add to 139

Number of people shot by police in 2017 in the US

Number of police officers killed in 2017 in the US

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 20:07 utc | 140

somebody

Yes of course (on condemnation)! That is after all what people like yourself demand of Trump.
I also think its callous that you seem to justify cop killings due police brutality.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 20 2017 20:40 utc | 141

104
Don't spread fake news.

This is Mussolini in his own words.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20, 2017 9:53:57 AM | 106

The pot calling the Kettle . . . . , once again

Recruited by MI5: Benito Mussolini
Documents reveal Italian dictator got start in politics in 1917 with help of £100 weekly wage from MI5

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 21:05 utc | 142

About police "death in the line of duty": only 50% are caused by human attacks on police, so the ratio "public killed by police" / "police killed by the public" is about 16. What puzzled me is that one policeman died in the line of duty because of an animal. The listing was "Texas A & M Police Department". Before reading further, try to guess, what animal was it? Hint: one that most of us see regularly. E.g. it was not the case of a longhorn bovine, cherished maskot of the campus, suddenly going berserk. Warning: the text below has some drastic details, discretion advised.

"Corporal Monty Platt died of complications of an animal bite sustained on July 24th, 2017, as he attempted to capture an injured feral cat on campus in the area of 301 26th Street.

The cat bit him through his work gloves and punctured his skin. He received medical treatment and was given medication, which caused him to suffer a severe allergic reaction. He was transferred to the ICU at University of Medical Center, in Lubbock, where he was placed on a ventilator. His condition rapidly deteriorated and he passed away on August 8th, 2017."

Details are sketchy, but very plausibly, Corporal Platt is a victim of the rapacity of the American medical-industrial complex. He probably got a tetanus shot, routine in the case of animal bites, or some medication that may have similar consequence: rare but severe allergic reaction, and then left the clinic and went/drove home. The most severe allergic reaction, anaphylactic shock, is very treatable if one applies an injection of epinephrin (a.k.a. adrenalin). If it is not done within 30 minutes, the results can be as described. People at risk may carry injectors. The dose that is needed costs about one dollar. In Poland, the usual injector is a pre-dosed sealed syringe, and it costs 16 dollars, fully covered by (single payer) insurance, but if someone is weary of stabbing his/her tight by him(her)self, one can buy non-reimbursed more automatic injector with brand name Epipen, for 75 dollars. In USA recently that price was increased from ca. 300 to ca. 600, and the cheap alternative is simply not available. I guess, regulated out of existence. So what to do if a patient is released from a clinic but has 1/100,000 chance of anaphylactic shock? If the risk can be almost eliminated for 16 dollars, the proper procedure would be to supply this person with the pre-dosed sealed syringe. But if it costs 600, the proper calculation may be to leave it to fate.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 20 2017 21:09 utc | 143

141

No, I believe people should not carry guns. But I live in a country where the ownership of guns is restricted and police shootings are rare.

If police in the US would ask me for my driver's licence I would raise my hands and ask them to get it themselves.

Trumps problem is that he always immediately condems "Islamic terrorism" but when a right winger with a car runs over demonstrators his mouth gets stuck.

Obama very simply is not in the business of condemning but analyzing the context. He is not doing the blame game. He says of racism: We are not cured of it.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 21:16 utc | 144

As Obama said

With an open heart, we can worry less about which side has been wronged, and worry more about joining sides to do right

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20, 2017 4:02:55 PM | 139

Lol

You STILL haven't worked out that Obama was as fake as they come, and was a very willing mouthpiece for corporatism?

Seriously?

Or more likely you have but don't care and are as usual prepared to just lie by pretending you believe him in order to win an argument

The mere fact that you are defending Obama, who is/was slave to, and a very willing mouthpiece for, rampant corporatism, and therefore willingly serving a system that is pretty fascist even by your own definition of "fascist", suggests the latter

When ever I read your comments I'm left with the impression that you don't even believe a word you say and are merely here to win petty arguments.

One thing I know for sure: you are certainly prepared to contradict statements you made just a few seconds before hand without any sense of shame whatsoever.

You're about as trustworthy as a snake

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 21:17 utc | 145

somebody @ 11 said:"This here is what Trump's presidency has been about right from the start - a capitalist raid on government"

"Bannon's role has been - and looking at Breitbart still is - to sell Trump to the stupid little people."

IMO, so much truth in two sentences. Yep..

Posted by: ben | Aug 20 2017 21:17 utc | 146

@Ageless Yankee

Your points are mostly correct, but your conclusion isn't imo.
The most likely (though not the only possible) outcome is a gradual transition to a multipolar system, with central bank 'collusion' stabilizing the process and preventing any major crash. Nobody wants collapse and chaos, so they are bound to cooperate - convincing everyone takes time though.

@Anon

Quit your trolling and shove it. You lost the first argument, the second and the third, now you try the next. What's the point?

Posted by: smuks | Aug 20 2017 21:21 utc | 147

Obama very simply is not in the business of condemning but analyzing the context. He is not doing the blame game. He says of racism: We are not cured of it.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20, 2017 5:16:05 PM | 144

Obama simply used anti-racism as a tool to further his own image. His actions while in office proved beyond a doubt that he certainly never gave a damn about racism. All he ever did was pay lip service to anti-racism ideals.

He was about as trustworthy as a snake.
A Bit like yourself in fact

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 21:22 utc | 148

"While we await that decision," Edwards said, "and as I've said many times ... we still have too many people in our community who are afraid of the police and too many police officers afraid of members of our community."

"We all have a role to play to make things better," Edwards said


To pour gasoline on a situation like this would be irresponsible, don't you think? Especially with gun laws being what they are in the US?


Posted by: somebody | Aug 20, 2017 4:02:55 PM | 139

Obama already poured gasoline on the situation by further militarising the police once he got power.

His policies are part of the reason it got so bad,.
While in power he certainly made absolutely no attempt to reverse the trend of police willingness to murder civilians of all colours.

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 21:28 utc | 149

ANON
what do you mean he hasn't been able too.
How many executive orders has he signed into law.
Wake up man.
I saw Mr.Trump and his wife show up at an airport
in Florida with 10,000 of his fans waiting to hear him.
when they got off the plane and made their way to speak
to his fans, his wife stepped up to the microphone and in
broken English said " let us pray" she said the Lords Prayer
and then Donald took to the microphone and spread his lies
(you know like HRC will be in prison when I am President..LIE)
after he was done speaking and said good night and signaled for the
music to begin do you know what song played while he waved and smiled and shook hands? The song was "Sympathy for the Devil" what Hypocrites these people
are. The song is the TRUE face of Mr.Trump.

Posted by: Rodger | Aug 20 2017 21:42 utc | 150

145
The discussion was about "condemning" and "racism". Nothing else.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20 2017 21:54 utc | 151

@From The Hague 102
@Pyschohitorian

The most destructive war on the European continent was the Thirty Year war. Resulting in, eight million casualties.

France the Victor, established Novus ordo seclorum. Vanquishing Holy Roman Empire and all its institutions. Dissecting its lands into units named Nation-State. This was the birth of Nationalism.

Nationalism gave us the two World wars. Seventy Nine, million deaths, eclipsing the older mass slaughter record.

Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Aug 20 2017 22:06 utc | 152

145The discussion was about "condemning" and "racism". Nothing else.
Posted by: somebody | Aug 20, 2017 5:54:14 PM | 151

Like I said earler, as trustworthy and slippery as a snake.

This tactic you Germans have of attacking everything slightly to the right of wherever you are on the political spectrum isn't working.

It certainly isn't working in Germany, because the right wing nationalist AFD are now the fastest growing party in Germany likely to become 3rd biggest party soon.

All because people like you scream nazi everytime those who vote for AFD express even the mildest criticism of things like The puppet Merkels open doors policy

And despite the cries of Germans like yourself about fascism most of your ilk refuse to open your mouths when cronfronted with real fascism, like the good little hypocritical turds you are

https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/fed-up-with-german-silence/

The left in the US use the same silencing tactics as you German hypocrites, and its no longer working there either. Clearly the people that voted for Trump and for AFD in German are tired of being silenced and censored. And while they were silent and censored their views became more polarised.

Imho this is definitely partly the fault of people like you who try to silence views you don't like by screaming "nazi" all the time


Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 22:59 utc | 153

145The discussion was about "condemning" and "racism". Nothing else.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 20, 2017 5:54:14 PM | 151

As slippery and dishonest as the proverbial snake

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 23:01 utc | 154

This tactic you Germans use, used also by the left in the US, of screaming "nazi" at everything you don't like, to try and silence and censor, isn't working anymore.

In Germany the AFD is the fastest growing party, soon to become 3rd biggest political party.

Imho, this is a direct result of the attempts of people like you to silence them.

When silenced their views became more extreme, directly as a result of people like you.

So its not working in Germany nor the US, as the election of Trump has shown

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 23:06 utc | 155

When confronted with actual fascism, which you actually subsidise, you people are silent

https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/fed-up-with-german-silence/

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 20 2017 23:07 utc | 156

'It's almost like the United States has no President -'

who needs a president when you have an oligarchy

Posted by: brian | Aug 21 2017 0:20 utc | 157

@122 h

Thanks for your comment and for pointing up Frances at 68.

~~

@121 james - "how about coming up with some new terms???"

Perhaps the universe is trying to tell us to do away with all terms? To stop trying to label things with words that have all been appropriated by obfuscation in a word space saturated with propaganda - and instead deal with each issue simply from critical assessment, logic and the wisdom of the moral heart?

So that we might actually know what to do about things instead of being paralyzed?

How could it be any worse than the unbearable noise of this thread, filled with arguments over exhausted words? While the caravan moves on.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2017 0:21 utc | 158

@156 grieved... i think words do mean something.. either we use language to connect with others in a way that is mutually understood, or we work towards building an understanding - use of more words for example - like this thread!! some people are more interested in building bridges then others perhaps.

at the same time the use of language is relative.. sometimes silence is better! internet chat sites, which is what moa is essentially - all suffer from not being able to read non verbal cues which makes it especially tricky sometimes!

ps - @95, i pointed out frances comment and was happy to see h pick up on that too! i thought it was quite relevant what they said as well..

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2017 1:18 utc | 159

james Grieved
Looking at this thread I have been thinking that any society or system will have elements of various ideologies.
US proclaims it is capitalist by ideology. US capatalism will have elements of other ideologies, but the only one that raises screams of indignation in the US is if they think a particular element can be associated with communism.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 21 2017 1:47 utc | 160

@ SMUKS 147

Thank you for your comment and disagreement, sir. It's a pleasure to correspond with you.


Could you be more specific with regard to what parts of my conclusion you disagree with and why?


Cheers,

Ageless

Posted by: Ageless Yankee | Aug 21 2017 1:58 utc | 161

Disregard my last SMUKS - I reread your post and saw the detail I was looking for.

Posted by: Ageless Yankee | Aug 21 2017 2:05 utc | 162

Looking in the rear view mirror we can now see that there was no real conflict between Teams -R and -D. Given that they are owned by the same folks ...

Posted by: Ageless Yankee | Aug 20, 2017 2:54:32 PM | 131

It reminded me Travels of Gulliver. MC was marooned on the island of Lilliput that was divided between two states, usually at war. The point of contention was the proper manner of eating soft boiled eggs: should they be cracked on the narrower end or the wider one? The oversized traveller had hard time seeing any difference - the eggs of Lilliputians were so tiny that he did not see any difference between the "correct" and "wrong" ends, but there were true wars and true hatred. (During the lifetime of Swift who is the author, denizens of a nearby island were busy fighting about this or that, he himself observed that from Dublin).

For the record, it is absurd to crack the narrow end, because it forces the consumer to use a narrower spoon, decreasing the efficiency. Similarly, there is a profound difference between decrying human caused climate change as an international plot driven by nefarious sources, of nature so dark that there cannot be be agreed upon (Jews, Chinese, liberals who simply detest anything that is good and honest, etc.) and doing nothing to prevent the postulated calamity (more precisely, engaging in activity that evokes numerical zero).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 21 2017 2:49 utc | 163

@160 Piotr Berman

For the record, I must disagree. The narrow end of the egg allows any spillage to be contained within the whole, while the narrower spoon required - at least in my own life experience - is typically more ornate, elegant and in short a better instrument. Breakfast becomes sublime at the narrow end.

I think it matters whether you cut the egg top with a knife or with the spoon. If you use the spoon - which I believe the hand most naturally prefers to do - you will immediately see the benefit in cutting the more narrow end of the egg. It was never going to be easy, so why not take the shorter travel?

What's to go to war over?

;)

~~

@157 james

Credit where credit is due. I didn't see your cite @95 but I'm glad you were on it. I have found this a crazy thread, hard to follow. All the US domestic news and comments seem crazy to me right now, and this itself speaks the message to me more than the purported points to be made. There's something very twisted - or perhaps twisting - in the US narrative right now.

I'm not the person to straighten it out, rather I'll wait for it to beat itself into shape over time and through the hammer of history unfolding.

Words mean everything, of course, and we love them for this. But when they lose their meaning, or when their meaning is stolen from them - or most crucially when the discussion about words becomes a sidetrack from the matter at hand - then the language allows and history demands that we continue to speak the truth of things using whatever words fit, in the moment of their communication. If both sides can allow this, then a dialog can ensue. Language evolves because people have to keep talking and trying to agree on the truth. And that's what we do. You're right.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 21 2017 5:06 utc | 164

somebody

Obama very simply is not in the business of condemning but analyzing the context.
You again not approach the issue, condemning the racism commited with the sniper attacks. If Trump try to analyze and condemn both, its bad but when Obama does it is good according to yourself.

Rodger

An american president is no dictator, he's policy is not built upon executive orders.
You are clearly driven by hate, there i no point talking with you.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 21 2017 5:18 utc | 165

Grieved, james
looking at this thread, I have thought that a balanced system may contain elements of most named ideologies. The US professed system is the ideology of capitalism. This would contain elements of other ideologies though anything that has the slightest whiff of communism/socialism in the US raises howls of outrage.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 21 2017 6:00 utc | 166

162
Trump ANALYZING ? ROTFL

Posted by: somebody | Aug 21 2017 6:10 utc | 167

ANON
Hate? what are you talking about?
I have given you truth and yet you want to call it hate.
Wake up man you can't see the forest for all the trees.
Here are a few that the Trump policies are working for
surrounded by Generals and the Financiers of war (Goldman Sachs..ect)
Really no different than Obama,he just has you believing he is different
That spray tan does make him look different kind of like a cheeto.
Have we seen those tax returns yet another LIE right, the last time he was
asked his response was "Campaign is over" so you see he just told us what he
said during campaigning was a LIE and so far it has proved to be so. Pay Attention

Tracking Saudi Arms Sales. Bill Hartung at the Center for International Policy has a new report that details four U.S. defense firms that provide the bulk of American-made arms to Saudi Arabia. Deals to Riyadh have garnered extra scrutiny of late, stemming from the vast number of civilian casualties reported from Saudi strikes against Iran-backed militants in Yemen. Since 2009, General Dynamics has been part of 25 deals, Raytheon, 24; Lockheed, 17; and Boeing, 14, Hartung reports.

Cash Expected to Flow to Contractors. The federal government is expected to spend money at record levels in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2017, according to a new report from Govini. Not a surprise, the bulk of that money will be spent by the military services and defense agencies. Spending slowed in the first three quarters due to federal budget uncertainty and the transition from Obama to Trump administrations.
Lockheed Gets $8B SOCOM Deal

This eye-popping deal will put Lockheed in charge of much of U.S. Special Operations Command’s logistics for the next decade. Per a company statement: Under the deal, SOF “will receive a wide variety of advanced logistics, maintenance and sustainment services across aviation, ground and maritime platforms.”The Navy ordered 21 air-launched versions of the missiles from Lockheed last month, part of an $86.5 million deal.

http://www.defenseone.com/business/2017/08/global-business-brief-august-17-2017/140315/?oref=d-river

Posted by: Rodger | Aug 21 2017 6:26 utc | 168

- According to The Independent, it was Rupert Murdoch who was the driving force behind the firing of Bannon.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rupert-murdoch-urges-donald-trump-fire-steve-bannon-a7895051.html

- But it's not quite clear what Murdoch's intentions are. Didn't he like the Bannon's isolationism ?

Posted by: Willy2 | Aug 21 2017 6:31 utc | 169

- The right wing website "Stormfront" was very excited to see Bannon to be appointed.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1186552/
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/stormfront-on-steve-bannons-appointment-it-doesnt-get-1789008594

Posted by: Willy2 | Aug 21 2017 6:43 utc | 170

162 -

An american president is no dictator, he's policy is not built upon executive orders.

Trump's executive orders

Trump's claim hinges on the slew of executive orders he has signed, which in his first 100 days exceeded that of any other recent president.

It is all he has to show after six month of government. Most are campaign pledges fulfilled by forming a committee or ordering a report or review.
Ruling by "something must be done".

He seems to be unable to use the Republican Congress and Senate Majority to get anything done. Quite the contrary Congress and Senate unite against him bi-partisan to constrain him on Russia.

He will announce an Afghanistan strategy today. Let's see if he was able to stand up to his generals.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 21 2017 6:44 utc | 171

somebody

Its not Trumps fault that GOP working against the democratically elected president, also once again you see things in such bad/good things, its more complex than that.

Posted by: Anon | Aug 21 2017 8:18 utc | 172

169
It basically means he cannot do the job.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 21 2017 9:32 utc | 173

From The Hague

Nationalism was responsible for both world war, Not democracy

Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Aug 21 2017 15:31 utc | 174

@161 grieved.. thanks. i always enjoy reading your thoughtful comments..

@163 peter au.. mongrels are the best mutts! i agree with your thought on that.. a plurality of ideologies makes the world go round. it could exist within one country as well.. meanwhile the corporations are eating the planet alive.. until this is rectified, we are in trouble..

Posted by: james | Aug 21 2017 15:46 utc | 175

From The Hague
Nationalism was responsible for both world war, Not democracy
Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Aug 21, 2017 11:31:15 AM | 171

Lol

Over production, economic recession and mass unemployment played a much more important role. Those 3 are what caused the proles to seek solutions in nationalism in the first place.

And those nationalist movements were all financed and backed politically by the industrialists and finance capitalists who caused the preceeding over production, recession and unemployment

Remove those 3 and the wars might never have happened. Certainly not at the scale nor time they happened.

Also: The excessive demands of the victors of WW1 is what directly caused WW2. Nationalism was mostly the cloak used to disguise the real causes.

This is basic stuff regarding the history of those 2 world wars

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 21 2017 17:11 utc | 176

59 et al.

The Night of the Long Knives analogy seems misplaced for the reason that it consolidated Hitler's power, while the departure of Bannon and such weaken Trump's power. The power brokers made a similar, albeit less dramatic, bid to head off any insurgency that might have emerged from an Obama administration when it offered him the deal that ended opposition to his nomination in exchange for putting their toadies, including Hillary, in all the positions of power in his prospective administration.

Posted by: Thirdeye | Aug 21 2017 21:52 utc | 177

Just Sayin

Your understanding of History is very basic.

Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Aug 21 2017 22:53 utc | 178

bush the III has made a "good" start to beat ohblahblah's previous winning record of death and destruction.

Posted by: Seby | Aug 22 2017 3:06 utc | 179

Your understanding of History is very basic.

Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Aug 21, 2017 6:53:51 PM | 178


ROFL

Well if a comment giving at least 4 acknowledged historical reasons for ww1+ww2 (5 if we include who financed the political parties) is claimed to be "very basic" your one word reason, "Nationalism", could only be described as "borderline retarded" in comparison

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 22 2017 17:34 utc | 180

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