Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 26, 2017

Open Thread 2017-33

News & views ...

Posted by b on August 26, 2017 at 16:09 UTC | Permalink


Russia and Syria are collaborating on an air defense system for Syria:

One assumes this announcement is meant to give Israel pause as Netanyahu continues to spout off about attacking Syria.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Aug 26 2017 17:01 utc | 1

German FM slammed online over Ukrainian nazi-nationalist slogan

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 26 2017 17:06 utc | 2

Second IS pocket is under SAA control in the Homs governorate..

Posted by: Lozion | Aug 26 2017 17:16 utc | 3

US imperialists' next potential target: Pakistan

Posted by: nmb | Aug 26 2017 18:39 utc | 4

nmb @3--

The Chinese have forcefully (for them) spoken to Tillerson of the Outlaw US Empire in easy to understand language: "In addition, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying defended Pakistan on Tuesday. 'I should say that Pakistan is in the frontline of fighting terrorism, made sacrifices to fighting terrorism, making important contribution to upholding peace and stability,' Hua said, the third defense of Pakistan by Chinese leaders in as many days."

Pakistan will now call on its new allies within the SCO: "'We will contact China, Russia [and other countries of the region] in the coming days in order to get a regional consensus and a solution,' Asif [Pakistan Foreign Minister] told the Geo TV broadcaster."...

"'Pakistan would never want unrest in Afghanistan as it would also clash with the country’s own interest,' Asif said, adding that Pakistan sought stability in region no only for itself, but for neighboring Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan."

It appears that with the possible exception of India all the region's nations reject Trump's "newly minted" yet longstanding Afghan policy because it's a proven failure. A Russian FM PR from last February prior to Pakistan and India's formal admittance as Full Members of the SCO notes the concerted efforts to build a new policy having a chance at success:

"The parties discussed regional approaches to the development of security in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan at length.

"The participants agreed to step up efforts to promote the intra-Afghan peace process while maintaining the leading role of Kabul and observing the previously agreed upon principles of integrating the armed opposition into peaceful coexistence.

"In the context of a possible expansion of this negotiation format, the parties agreed on the necessity to increase regional efforts to stabilise the situation in Afghanistan through the potential of other countries in the next stage, particularly the Central Asian countries."

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2017 19:37 utc | 5

A Reflection on things ME.

It seems that in the spring Qatar started negotiating with Iran to do a joint pipeline through Syria and out to the EU - so bringing the world's largest natural gas field into reach for the Europeans.

It should be remembered that in about 2014 the Russians met with the Qatari's to set up an unofficial natural gas cartel. Since then Qatari funding for the Syrian war has steadily fallen off. Seeing the momentum change with Russia's involvement in Syria, Qatar appears to have decided if you can't beat'em, join'em. So by agreeing to a joint pipeline with Iran, Qatar is not in a position to undermine Russia, but would get the access it tried to get by fomenting the war in Syria in the first place.

IMO this is the reason for the sudden rupture in Saudi-Qatari relations. It must have come as a surprise for the Saudis to find out that Europe may soon have access to clean natural gas instead of their oil. So the Saudis declare Qatar a sponsor of terrorism just when Qatar had stopped supporting those groups. But their intimidation failed mainly due to Iran stepping in to protect their new 'partner' (only some sort of pipeline deal would explain this as Iran had been fighting Qatar's goons in Syria for years).

The original Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline did not involve Turkey or Qatar. I believe the new route will involve Turkey and so stymie the emerging US attempt (notice recent statements to Turkey regarding the Kurds) to patch up things with Turkey. By purchasing the S-400, making joint exploration deals with Iran, and abandoning support for CIA backed groups in Syria, Turkey seems to have made a decisive step away from its' previous commitment to US hegemony.

A Qatar-Iranian supply of gas to Southern Europe could also threaten US LNG supplies. The original pipeline was to terminate in Syria and then become LNG to Europe. As such US supplies of LNG were competitive. However, should the Qatar-Iran pipeline link up with pipelines in Turkey, it will be much cheaper than any LNG from the US.

Has the US shot itself in the foot again?

Are US sanctions against China are payback for buying its' natural gas from Qatar using contracts priced in Chinese yuan or a warning to the Europeans to not desert the-dollar by pricing their future contracts for natural gas in their own currencies? Both?

It would seem that Russian-Turkish-Iranian positioning is marginalizing US ability to control events in the ME. I am sure they will not sit back idly and watch this happen. Using militants Afghanistan is too indirect. Threatening Iran has proving to be difficult. Will there be a second form of regime change in Turkey?

Posted by: les7 | Aug 26 2017 20:30 utc | 6

Another pretend sanctions for US public consumption against Venezuela. Goldman Sachs stands by Maduro , not gonna give up bonds that pay 10-30% best in the world , another Trump reality show for stupider than he is, following Deep State order he does not understand or grasp intellectually with his flaccid clown brain, so his UN parrot called Haley.

Also all those heavy crude refineries owned by US investors vetoed any serious implementation of his unforeseen utterance called sanctions hurting Wall Street interests even if only in minute degree.

Also sanction against Venezuelan oil company is useless since already Venezuela sells through a third parties and that includes Russia, China and others, US refineries are happy to buy from with today's suppressed prices.

What is worrying is Maduro clique deep connections to Wall Street that may unfortunately result in some rotten compromise where Venezuelan working people loose.

Posted by: Kalen | Aug 26 2017 20:41 utc | 7

NMB, it is extremely disrespectful of you to use links at Moon of Alabama and track all of us all of the time. You know how to create links properly so just link to the original please.

I'd suggest no one click on any of NMB's links until he starts to link directly to the original instead 1. tracking us via 2. hiding where he is sending us.

Posted by: Uncoy | Aug 26 2017 20:52 utc | 8

I am carrying this comment forward from the end of the last Open Thread

I am posting this link about India because of the last two sentences which I will quote after the link

Death toll of violence rises to 28 in India following "spiritual leader" rape conviction

Fearing mobilization of crowds and rumourmongering, authorities have snapped internet in Haryana and Punjab, reports said.
A high alert has been sounded in Punjab, Haryana and New Delhi.

Is the rest of the world ready for your government deciding if/when to "snap" the internet on you?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2017 20:54 utc | 9

karlof1 @4

Interesting developments, thank you for the info.

Posted by: nmb | Aug 26 2017 21:07 utc | 10

"The Qatar-Turkey pipeline was a proposal to build a natural gas pipeline from the Iranian–Qatari South Pars / North Dome Gas-Condensate field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline to supply European customers as well as Turkey. One route to Turkey was via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria,[1][2] and another was through Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq.[3][4] Syria's rationale for rejecting the Qatar proposal was said to be "to protect the interests of [its] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."[1]
That was supposed to continue to Turkey."

That is on the reason Qatar went to war against Syria and failed thanks to Russia.

I doubt that Russia will allow a Qatar-Iran pipeline to cross Syria to Turkey and Europe now!
Russia has made a deal with Turkey on the "Turkstream"

"Russian gas giant Gazprom said Sunday it had started construction of a gas pipeline under the Black Sea to Turkey that also aims to provide gas to the European Union.
"By late 2019, our Turkish and European consumers will have a new, reliable source of Russian gas imports," Alexey Miller, Chairman of the Gazprom Management Committee, said in a statement"

Qatar and Iran will have to compete with Gazprom if they want to use its facilities from Turkey.
Iran and Qatar may have to find another plan to send their gaz to Europe or the East.

Posted by: virgile | Aug 26 2017 21:10 utc | 11

@ psychohistorian who is comment challenged today and wants the link below to be part of my comment above

Death toll of violence rises to 28 in India following "spiritual leader" rape conviction

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2017 21:11 utc | 12

The hegemon is in decline.

Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Aug 26 2017 21:25 utc | 13

To buttress my #4, here we are told: "China, Russia and elements of the Afghan government are united in their opposition to Donald Trump’s troop surge and his provocative statements about South Asia," while Afghanistan has formally asked Russia for help in solving its internal situation through its ambassador to Russia, Abdul Qayyum Kochai, who said:

"'We would like Russia to help the Afghans as well in order to achieve safety and peace in Afghanistan … We want the relations with Russia to be very good, despite the fact that there have been some problems throughout history'."

More interesting tidbits are within the linked article,

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2017 21:28 utc | 14

Greetings fellow barflies. I'll have to change my username.
But I wished to draw attention to something that may develop over the next few weeks regarding lebanon.
I hope I get these link things right: headline: Nikki Haley says UN commander in Lebanon ‘blind’ to illegal arms trafficking/A>
US envoy Haley rips UN troop commander in Lebanon

The commanding officer is an Irish General - a Michael Beary who besides Lebanon has served in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iraq, Uganda and Somalia.

According to the Guardian:

US ambassador Nikki Haley sharply criticised the UN peacekeeping commander in Lebanon on Friday, saying he is “blind” to the spread of illegal arms and reiterating a call for the force to do more about it. He says there is no evidence it is actually happening.

I'm reading IF Stone's book about the Korean War, and his writings about the 'unified command structure' of the UN forces make me wonder whether we will see an effort to install a US or other NATO general (Ireland is not a member of Nato and is officially a neutral-aligned country) in charge of an expanded mandate in Lebanon.

According to the Guardian story, the UNIFIL mandate comes for renewal at the end of the month.

Funnily enough, even though the professionalism/integrity of one of its (I suppose) leading soldiers is being called into question, I can't find any significant defence of General Beary in an Irish media outlet.

Maybe this is something to watch for developments? Best wishes

Posted by: oneoffposter | Aug 26 2017 21:32 utc | 15


You assume that Qatar-Iran supplies will compete with Russian supplies. That was true 8 years ago when the line was first proposed, when the war against Syria planned.

Europe's regional supplies via Netherlands, Norway and Algeria increasingly drop each year. The gas that was hoped for via fracking in eastern Ukraine was a complete bust, the coup was wasted. Russia currently supplies about 40% of the European market, and their share rose last year.

As Europe continues to move away from Nuclear, demand for alternative energy will increase. Since regulations compel decreasing emissions, they will move increasingly towards gas. There is ample room for Russian gas and Qatar-Iranian gas.

In addition, if by allowing Qatar gas to reach S. Europe the Russians exclude US LNG and weaken US 'influence' over Europe while building their own ability to broker positive development, I doubt Russia will hesitate one moment.

Posted by: les7 | Aug 26 2017 21:34 utc | 16

pay backs are a bitch....Manpads for Afghans.....!!!!!

Posted by: mhouston | Aug 26 2017 22:00 utc | 17

I rather think that the only real global strategist in the current WH administration is Tillerson. And given his life long role as an oil Czar,I wonder if the new US troops to Afghanistan and the US criticisms of Pakistan are part of a US effort to, 1. prevent the Chinese OBOR planned hook ups with the ME countries and, 2. is intended to by keeping the region in termoil prevent any Russian/Syrian planned overland routes for oil/gas from Syria to Asia?

And again thinking of Tillerson's possible role; may the ongoing US threats/sanctions against Venezuela be an attempt to make assisting and partnering with Venezuela by both China and Russia unappealing?

Posted by: frances | Aug 26 2017 22:04 utc | 18

Russia speaking warmly about Pakistan: I would suspect "deep" motivation. Russian raison d'etat is to block Qatari and Iranian gas from Europe by enticing the export to the Indian subcontinent. A pipeline was agreed upon, but Pakistan stalls, and the only reason I can imagine is arm twisting and bribery by USA and KSA. Prospectively, that market is huge, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are growing fast and there is chronic lack of sufficient electricity. Natural gas is the fastest and cleanest source of electicity in the medium term (coal power station use ca. double amount of carbon for kWh than gas with a lot of other emission and/or troublesome solid wastes, nuclear power has problems and is slow to build, "renewables" are more expensive and have spotty availability). Pipeline from Pars field to Pakistani border is ready.

One should also observe that distances from Pars field to Mumbay and Ankara are roughly equal (ca. 2500 km), so Pakistani market is waaaay closer than Europe (Ankara - Vienna 1600km), and India, quite a bit closer.

Russia would like to embolden Pakistan, and China has some interest in it too, namely, that Pakistan stops being American stooge and gets more stable government. China offer to finance the Pakistani pipeline segment, than withdrew the offer, but now they should be more motivated. Massaging Pakistani egos and insecurities may help.

IMHO, this shows a destructive side of American foreign policy: sabotage of economic development inflicted on allies/vassals (on top of havoc that sanctioncracy attempts to inflict).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 26 2017 22:08 utc | 19

just to add to my comment (18)I am not suggesting any of these strategies will work, they might delay events, but they will have no long term effect. The world is moving on and the US is ending its time in the sun.

Posted by: frances | Aug 26 2017 22:12 utc | 20

Typically the kind of unimportant information that the guardian publishes in the midst of summer when no one reads it

Posted by: Mina | Aug 26 2017 22:19 utc | 21

Brave journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhiev was fired for exposing the use of "Diplomatic Pouches" to smuggle weapons for Outlaw US Empire interests originating in Bulgaria. Here's the article; amazed it's still alive,
Here's her Twitter feed,

Canthama at SyrPers reports Daesh in Tal Afar is surrendering to Peshmerga instead of Iraqi PMU, presumably because foreign Daesh are being executed, not taken prisoner by PMU, whereas they're "welcomed" by Peshmerga. Also a report of another Daesh evacuation OP from Raqqa; make of it what you will.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2017 23:00 utc | 22

@ karlof1 who continues to help us watch the world go round.

Thank you.

The posting title on your last syrianperspective link says it all. trump-and-putin-play-chicken-as-risk-of-confrontation-increases-exponentially-trump-is-wests-sick-man.

Trump has generals and the money boys as his sidekicks. What should the world expect from such a configuration?

Bankruptcy by the US and the power to negotiate the "best" settlement aging empire can muster.

That is my take and I posit that it happens under Trumps watch....and possibly quite soon.

We live in interesting times, no?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 26 2017 23:50 utc | 23

psychohistorian | Aug 26, 2017 7:50:05 PM | 22

The U.S. cannot go bankrupt; it owns the printing presses, so to speak.
But what can happen; the U.S. will undermine its own currency to where no one wants it.
Coming soon, me hopes...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 1:25 utc | 24

Here's a fascinating (to me) video of a Russian supersonic anti-ship missile called a Moskit.
The video shows the Moskit hitting a ship, bow on;

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 2:16 utc | 25

@ V.Arnold who wrote about those printing presses

I have been hearing them constantly since 2008 and the trillions are deafening......where did they all go?

Yes, the world's nations need to stop buying US Treasuries to precipitate a huuuuuuge Bretton Woods Agreement gathering.....oh, to be a fly on the wall at such a meeting.

Anyway, if/when that meeting happens the overhanging debt of all nations and individuals will be "adjusted", a new global balance of power represented through control of global finance will occur and life will move forward.....that is the optimistic version......and like you write "Coming soon, me hopes."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 3:16 utc | 26

psychohistorian | Aug 26, 2017 11:16:38 PM | 25

What cements the absurdity of the money creation through debt gambit is; that debt cannot/will not be paid back, ever.
A long and winding road...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 3:56 utc | 27

Nice links.....PavewayIV should like the rants

1st from Paul Craig Roberts with Conspiracy Theory

2nd because of what it shows and they use someone from my alma mater as resource: All Countries America has invaded in one map

3rd from Matt Taibbi is Blame media for creating world dumb enough for Trump

and 4th from David Stockman with Can Kicking Time

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 4:00 utc | 28

@ V. Arnold about that debt thing

The world use to have debt jubilee events that acted as a Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber

Now we have a very dysfunctional (probably on purpose) matrix of debt situations all over the world..... personal, business and government.

How does one sit down and sort that out? LOL!!!

If/when you understand the absurdity of the debt situation and the private financial structure, inheritance and ongoing private ownership of stuff behind the structure, how do you reasonably respond?....if you are the elite, if you are the psychopath puppets, if you are the worker bees, if you are the zombies........

That long and winding road could become more difficult for many if the vectors don't change.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 4:15 utc | 29

psychohistorian | Aug 27, 2017 12:15:37 AM | 28

Graeber rocks; have read his book at least three times.
Since we refuse to act collectively, then we must act individually.
First, pay off all debt; dump credit cards unless disciplined (most are not, IMO) enough to pay off any balance before interest applies.
Do not use banks; use credit unions.
Stay away from financial advisors; investment councillors, and the stock markets.
Buy gold and silver.
And last; pay off all debt.
Unfortunately the days of debt jubilee are long gone, in this world gone mad...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 4:51 utc | 30

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27, 2017 12:00:50 AM | 27

I decided several years ago to give PCR's mixed messages a wide berth.
His Conspiracy article is typical of the drivel he mixes in with nice stuff people want to hear. His remarks about explosives in WTC are straight out of the (edu-phobic) Trufer ravings. He's either too incurious to read the NIST report on WTC, or too technically ignorant to comprehend the content.
And he's too long-winded - ALWAYS a sign the writer is camouflaging crap.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27 2017 4:59 utc | 31

@ Hoarsewhisperer who questions the message of PCR

I don't often link to him for the reasons you share but even I can fall for a well composed agnotology piece. Thanks for the PCR balance call.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 5:08 utc | 32

Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27, 2017 12:59:32 AM | 30

My conclusion as well; I now give PCR little credibility.
He's living in his moment of fame and past deeds.
Concur on 9/11 as well.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 5:11 utc | 33

@ V. Arnold who thinks the world has gone mad

I agree with that sentiment to a degree but don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.

I believe we have made amazing advances as a species but are limiting ourselves with outdated and now dangerous social structure based around private property and finance maintained by inheritance.

I think if we could eliminate at least private finance world wide, humanity may come to grips with itself without the God of Mammon social incentives at the core. Limiting the ownership of property like China with "99 year lease" and setting maximum on inheritance would be other good moves, IMO, that would further deprecate the white male class pecking order insanity we have now.

We don't have to have all the answers. We just need to move some important levers in the right direction and adjust accordingly.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 5:20 utc | 34

about debt generally, highly recommended

about "jubilee", do you know about potlach?

Posted by: mauisurfer | Aug 27 2017 5:26 utc | 35

About USA invasions, the link to Tyler Durden and Indy 100
fails to mention Hawaii, where USA Marines "overthrew" Queen Liliuokalani in 1793. Today there are about 40,000 USA military here, more than ROK, more than Germany, more than Japan.

Posted by: mauisurfer | Aug 27 2017 5:37 utc | 36

@ mauisurfer who asked about potlach

I am a Tacoma, WA "native" and learned about the karma of potlach earlier than many. It is a great example of a cultural expression of excess that should be learned about and brought forward as alternative to the excess of current inheritance practice.

As I wrote above: We don't have to have all the answers. We just need to move some important levers in the right direction and adjust accordingly.

I hope to live to see society moving away from our private finance controlled world..

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 5:37 utc | 37

@ mauisurfer with the Hawaii update to list of USA invasions.

I didn't inspect for accuracy and noticed that they set criteria that probably was interpreted to exclude Hawaii.

Is there a country in the world that the US has not influenced and/or controlled since its inception and subversion by the early finance scions of empire? I suspect not. It sickens me to think back on how the CIA used and still uses the idealist Peace Corps volunteers to report on local "politics" and identify potential "extremists"......think about the potential leadership of the world that has been killed to maintain private finance control over our world.....all in the name of spreading democracy and freedom.......gag!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2017 5:48 utc | 38

About US invasions...

the least glorious was the invasion to possess Wrangel Island, ca. 1000 square miles in a "strategic location", ca. 100 miles from Siberia and 400 from Alaska. US military recruited 20 Alaskan Eskimos and left them there in 1920. Two years later they checked, and none survived. End of invasion. Later Soviets maintained a research station without a permanent human presence.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 27 2017 6:15 utc | 39

The key to 9/11 is NORAD's no-show, imo.
NORAD was created as a first responder to the threat of a potential attack on the Homeland. And yet the only time such a threat reared its ugly head, NORAD was Missing In Action.
Had NORAD done what it routinely did in the past, go and have a look, 9/11 couldn't have happened. And it may not have been necessary to shoot down the airliners. There are umpteen ways a gaggle of fighter jets can persuade the pilot of an airliner to obey a lawful command, including demonstrating the willingness and ability to make holes in the offender.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27 2017 6:29 utc | 40

Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27, 2017 2:29:45 AM | 39

I'd have to disagree re: NORAD.
Until those planes were siezed, they were normal commercial flights. I do not believe NORAD or anybody else had the time to react.
As to threatening the "pilots"; they were on a suicide mission.
I'm afraid your logic(?) is a bit skewed on that one. ;-)

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 6:47 utc | 41

As to threatening the "pilots"; they were on a suicide mission.
I'm afraid your logic(?) is a bit skewed on that one. ;-)
Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27, 2017 2:47:41 AM | 40

We've only got The (Rumsfeld-Cheney) Swamp's word for what what was happening in the airliners and what went wrong at NORAD on 9/11. It doesn't matter how suicidal the mission was, when a fighter jet pilot shoots the wingtip off your airliner, kills an engine, and threatens to blow you out of the sky, your options are severely restricted.
The big advantage (to The Swamp) of keeping NORAD out of the 9/11 equation was that NORAD cannot be ignored with impunity. So had NORAD been there then the airline 'pilots' would have had to communicate which, among other things, would have identified the pilots, their names, and the situation in the cockpit.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 27 2017 7:55 utc | 42

Money. I like all the topics on the table in this thread but I'll take money in honor of psychohistorian and V. Arnold.

We think exactly backwards from the way the bankers think. Debt is our burden but debt is their income. This difference is crucial to bear in mind.

Bankers became bankers originally because they held capital that could form the basis for a loan, that could be the principal. But we live in a golden age of banking when central banks rule the system and subordinate banks within the system really don't need much capital to create a loan.

In essence, in this age, the principal isn't real. Only the interest is real. We the debtors have to pay off the principal as well as the interest. But they, the lenders, really only want the interest, which is vastly more important than the principal.

So when we say the US is in debt, all we're really saying is that banks are being paid interest by the US, every day. This forms part of the income of the bankers who rule this global system through their private central banks. All that would be required for the US to become "bankrupt" would be for the banks to receive less income every day.

This is exactly what happens when the stock market crashes on cue, and banks cease to make money on the upward margins, and make money on the downward margins instead. People who make money purely from money have a dream, I suspect, of a stable income, but in practice they live in a world of fluctuating incomes as the different plays launch, surge, mature and wither.

So the question becomes, not how much the US has to "pay back" but how little the banks are prepared to take in interest. Or to put it another way - the correct way - when the US defaults on its nominal debt, how will this debt be restructured so that banks continue to receive their interest? Truly, this is all that matters.


They say that the US Dollar will be replaced as a global reserve currency by the basket of currencies that is the Special Drawing Right (SDR) of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). I truly believe this is the future because the bankers, having come to rule the global financial system, have no reason at all to let it fall down in any way - especially when a perfect solution to keep it going exists already and has long been groomed for the role.

Jim Rickards has suggested, and it's been linked here before, that when the SDR becomes the preferred unit of denomination for trades, extra liquidity will be added to the global economy - over, say, a decade - equal to $100 Trillion. This injected liquidity washes clean a lot of sins.


Do not look for a collapse as if a person owed money and could not pay. Look instead to the restructuring, as if a machine too profitable to fail had to find a different way to continue, a different fabricated vision for which to get up each morning.

The sky, I think, will not fall. If it does not die of hubris and carbohydrates, the human world will continue for hundreds, perhaps thousands, perhaps millions of years. And within this history of woe, compound interest will remain as perhaps the most foul of all the greed-induced desires. The ultimate question in this regard becomes, how then to restrain and regulate this curse of compound interest that burdens society?

The issuance of currency based on debt is exclusively the result of the desire for interest. It is not an imperative in its own right. It's a scam.

In the largest view, we are talking of reprogramming the greed that arises in the human breast. Do this, and we see the end to false money. But short of this, we have to treat the greed for "money made only from money" as the moral debasement that it is - the love of money that is the root of all evils - and outlaw it.

As a way to support the outlawing of the love of money, we can work at ground zero, by replacing private money with public money issued by states as a public utility. Sovereign money issued by the sovereign. Whoever creates the money holds the power of the sovereign.

Sovereign money. I'm not sure how to do this. But Ellen Brown has the road map. The Bank of North Dakota has the way.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 27 2017 8:43 utc | 43

An interesting reading on the players behind the wish for a partition of Iraq and Syria: Geopolitics And Corporate Profits Push Iraq And Syria Towards Partition.

Posted by: Philippe | Aug 27 2017 9:09 utc | 44

US ambassador Nikki Haley sharply criticised the UN peacekeeping commander in Lebanon on Friday, saying he is “blind” to the spread of illegal arms and reiterating a call for the force to do more about it. He says there is no evidence it is actually happening.
Nikki Haley is your average dumb, ignorant, Washington fuckwit. 1. The UNIFIL mandate only allows it to go after weapons with the consent of the Lebanese government, and since Hezbollah is part of that government, it ain't going to happen. 2. The UNIFIL mandate allows it to fire at anybody who fires at it or civilians. The IDF has frequently fired at civilians and occasionally at UNIFIL. Is that idiot prepared to support UNIFIL with that part of its mandate? Pigs might fly. As for the Korean War, the Soviets were boycotting the UNSC at the time because of its refusal to seat the PRC instead of the RoC as the representative of China (I believe) so the United States and its poodles were able to do the whole Korean War under the auspices of the United Nations. Russia would never allow a similar thing to happen again if it can possibly help it and if the US/France/UK try to place an allied officer in charge of UNIFIL, I strongly suspect the Russians or Chinese will veto it because it's a really stupid idea. Just remember what happened to the US marines in Beirut when that moron Reagan decided to take sides with the nearest thing to Nazis in the ME in the Lebanese Civil War without first withdrawing the marines. BTW, since the end of WW2, every single American government has been quite happy to work with Nazis so all this whining from American liberals about Trump enabling Nazis is a load of hypocritical bollocks.

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 27 2017 10:36 utc | 45

>>>> V. Arnold | Aug 26, 2017 10:16:15 PM | 24

Here's a fascinating (to me) video of a Russian supersonic anti-ship missile called a Moskit.

The Russians are readying a more advanced hypersonic anti-ship missile for operational use known as the Zircon. Apparently the missile has already been clocked at Mach 10, so fast that supposedly no air defence system can respond quickly enough, but more interestingly that if it's of a similar weight to the Oniks (another anti-ship missile), at that speed (Mach 10), it has kinetic energy equivalent to 2,400 kg of high explosive. As that video shows, hitting a ship head on would ensure that most if not all of that kinetic energy would be absorbed by the target with the terrible damage seen in the video.
If a Zircon hit an aircraft carrier loaded up with jet fuel and munitions head on, how likely is that the aircraft carrier would remain operational?
BTW, about the possible "hacking" of a couple or three US warships, why would anybody deploy such a valuable capability during peacetime, even if it is a period of heightened tension? Any rational state such as Russia would maintain full secrecy about it so that when the shit really hits the fan, it could be deployed to leave all the carrier battle groups near defenceless.

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 27 2017 11:06 utc | 47

les7 @5 and @15, virgile @10, thank you for your quality exchange. I live in Lancaster Pennsylvania (USA) where private land is being seized by eminent domain to facilitate a gas pipeline from the shale gas reserves in northern Pennsylvania to LNG processing facilities and eventually to LNG terminals for shipments overseas. Hundreds of locals are committed to civil disobedience to block the pipeline. Your exchange gives me a bit of hope that any delays resulting from local opposition may prove to be important in the larger scheme.

Posted by: Berry Friesen | Aug 27 2017 11:17 utc | 48

Ghostship | Aug 27, 2017 7:06:09 AM | 46

Re: destroyer collisions; it's why both debsisdead and I concluded Occam's Razor was the likely answer. In other words, incompetence of the crew on watch (not).
I did get one very arrogant/rude reply arguing Occams Razor does't apply in military situations; I didn't bother responding to such nonsense.
And Yes, I'm aware of the Zircons and Oniks missiles; the Moskit was the only vid I could find showing a hit on an actual ship.
Pretty damn impressive, IMO.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 11:46 utc | 49

Ghostship 46

US have often bragged about their unmatched cyber warfare capabilities. A few quiet demonstrations by Russia or China might help prevent the US going to war as its empire falls apart.
I read not long ago, China now has a network operating on quantum entanglement, sending full text, not just encryption keys. When it comes to the cyber world, and cyber warfare, China may be a long way ahead of the US.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 27 2017 11:48 utc | 50

Peter AU 1 | Aug 27, 2017 7:48:56 AM | 49

While China and Russia focus on defense from U.S. aggression; the U.S. is playing global whack-a-mole.
I read a pretty balanced article in Russia Insider which illustrates the differing outlooks;

And yes, China's success with quantum entanglement messaging is fascinating; sent from earth to satellites and back again.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 12:06 utc | 51

V. Arnold 50

I think most of the network at the moment is optic fiber. I read an article months ago that they were setting up an optic fiber network, I think for certain points in government and defense.
It has a limited range via optic fiber (less than 200k ?) but I guess messages could be relayed from point to point. I am not sure if the satellite has been added to this network considering it involves other players.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 27 2017 13:06 utc | 52

Peter AU 1 | Aug 27, 2017 9:06:40 AM | 51

Not sure; possibly we're talking about different systems.
Obviously, ground base to satellite would be wireless;fiber-opticless.
Can you link to the fibre-optic thingy you're speaking to?

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 13:12 utc | 53

V. Arnold. Takes a little bit to find now as seaches keep bringing up the satellite articles.
"China has launched a quantum communication line 712 kilometers in length that is meant to safely transmit sensitive information. It is expected to be extended to 2,000 kilometers soon.
The line connecting Hefei, the capital of Anhui Province, and Shanghai, a coastal trade hub, has 11 trusted nodes along its length, Xinhua news agency reported on Sunday."

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 27 2017 13:39 utc | 54

Peter AU 1 | Aug 27, 2017 9:39:45 AM | 54

Well done you; thanks.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 27 2017 13:57 utc | 55

Re: Hoarsewhisperer, psychohistorian, V. Arnold, in regard to your dissing of 9/11 "conspiracy" (and PCR)

US Army General Whistle Blower Reveals Facts of 9/11 World Trade Center/Pentagon Attacks

Have you ever taken the time to look at the information presented by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth?

It doesn't require a highly sophisticated knowledge of physics to understand their explanations of why the Twin Towers and Building 7 were taken down (at free fall) by controlled demolition. Building 7 video

They have done some very sophisticated scientific analysis that their members have done and presented. As a scientist, I find their explanations quite convincing, unlike the phony NIST study.

The neocons needed their "new Pearl Harbor" and they got it. The plans to invade and destroy the ME nations had been on the books for a long time.

Watch at least part of this movie (Zero: An Investigation into 9-11), i.e. the section starting at 28:50, which deals with the events at the Pentagon on 9/11. (recently released photos also show no plane wreckage at Pentagon )

This article provides research into the early claims by Dick Eastman, Tom Flocco, V.K. Durham and Karl Schwarz that the September 11th attacks were meant as a cover-up for financial crimes being investigated by the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), whose offices in the Pentagon were destroyed on September 11th:
Collateral Damage: U.S. Covert Operations and the Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001:

As Major General Stubblebine III asks, "Who was the real enemy? Who planned this attack? Why was it planned? Were the real terrorist the people in Arab clothing? Or were the people who planned this the people sitting in authority in the White House?"

Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 27 2017 13:57 utc | 56

Suntzu said it's much better if you can win without actually having to fight.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 27 2017 14:18 utc | 57

@48 V Arnold: "I did get one very arrogant/rude reply arguing Occams Razor does't apply in military situations; I didn't bother responding to such nonsense."

I apologize if you thought my response was rude. I am also sorry that you don't consider that Occam's razor (in my most humble opinion) is only useful when there is no subterfuge, a purposeful design or denial of facts involved.

For Occam's to be more than parlor chat, not only all obvious avenues be explored, any unexplored avenues must have concrete reason for being excluded.

It is going to boil down to a value judgment. You have a serial liar in the U.S. and a country with character in Russia. If the U.S. tells me it is raining, I am going to look out the window to check. Russia, not so much. Considering only the U.S. facts is of course going to lead you to what the U.S. wants you to believe, kinda like NATO and the EU. Consider the fact that they may be lying...again, may lead you to check their facts and consider other possibilities. Rational, no?

In January the USS Antietam ran aground near Yosuka, Japan.
In May the USS Champlain collided with a South Korean fishing vessel.
On June 17th seven US sailors died when the USS Fitzgerald — operating near Yokuska — collided with a container ship from the Philippines. It was determined that “the bridge team lost situational awareness.”

In January the USS Antietam ran aground near Yosuka, Japan.
In May the USS Champlain collided with a South Korean fishing vessel.
On June 17th seven US sailors died when the USS Fitzgerald — operating near Yokuska — collided with a container ship from the Philippines. It was determined that “the bridge team lost situational awareness.”

Pentagon and intelligence insider Jim Rickards points out “when the same basic incident happens twice, you have to raise your eyebrows. When you have a low-probability event that happens twice, in other words, the likelihood of coincidence becomes infinitesimal.”

My opinion is not based on this article alone, and is posted simply to show you that there "is" another train of thought.

Considering wikileaks has not quite finished releasing the contents of vault7, let's wait and see shall we?

With me, it is not about being right or wrong, people are going to disagree and I respect and understand you and debs believing the exact opposite. Time is going to tell what really happened.

@46 Hoarsewhisperer "BTW, about the possible "hacking" of a couple or three US warships, why would anybody deploy such a valuable capability during peacetime, even if it is a period of heightened tension?"

We are living in interesting times and I believe we are closer to war breaking out than most people maybe. I think if Hillary had won, we would already be there. I think the display of this ability was a warning, (Russia and China really don't want war) and that they have many more surprises in story.

China has had a mach 10 missile for awhile now. Carrier killer. Think its a dong21 or something. I'm not surprised that Russia has one. Similarly, I am not surprised that whatever Russia did to the Cook is not turning up in China's arsenal.

Regarding the Cook, In my lifetime, I do not recall any U.S. Navy ship allowing itself to fake-strafed. There is little doubt in my mind that standard orders are to fire a warning shot.

Didn't happen.

Occam's that.


Posted by: b4real | Aug 27 2017 14:19 utc | 58

There is an interesting segment in the Russian doco film "Crimea:Way Back Home".
Interviews with both the Russian military in Crimea and also Putin on the Donald cook.
At the time the Donald Cook was buzzed it was also lit up with the Bastion radar. When the interveiwer asked Putin about the incident with the planes, Putin laughed and said they were a bit naughty, and then that segment ended/cut mid sentance.
Lit up by the Bastion radar, then their lights turned out, then dummy strafed by a couple of planes - no doubt the Donal Cook heros coming to rescue Crimea would have felt discretion was the better part of valour.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 27 2017 15:15 utc | 59

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 27, 2017 6:36:02 AM | 45

Well said!

Posted by: frances | Aug 27 2017 16:20 utc | 60

re: @46 Hoarsewhisperer "BTW, about the possible "hacking" of a couple or three US warships, why would anybody deploy such a valuable capability during peacetime, even if it is a period of heightened tension?"
I would think because they may have needed to get the US to stand down from some undisclosed yet planned incursion, possibly related to the Chinese Sea.
And Russia is several generations ahead of the US militarily, it is possible whatever was used is their "plain vanilla" capability, one of many they have but are yet to display.

Posted by: frances | Aug 27 2017 16:33 utc | 61

My reply @ 58 referenced 46@Hoarsewhisperer, should have been 47 @ Ghostship. Sorry for the confusion.


Posted by: b4real | Aug 27 2017 16:56 utc | 62

Piotr Berman @ 39

Can't find any reference to the U.S. Military sending 20 "Eskimos" to settle Wrangel Island. Is that true?

They would have been in their native element, so it's hard to believe they just "died."

In 1921 a Canadian explorer. Vilhjalmur Stefansson, got four men, none "Eskimos", and a young Inupiat woman to try live on Wrangel and claim it for Canada or Great Britain. The men all died in less than a year. The woman lived there for two years until she was found and returned to Alaska. The ordeal apparently didn't take much out of her. She lived in the Arctic her whole life and died in the 1980s at 85.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Aug 27 2017 17:26 utc | 63

@43 Grieved thanks for the reflection on interest & principle. Very 'Interesting' ;)

@48 I hope you succeed. I believe the opening of the US energy market to export was a ploy not so much to gain global influence as to justify raising (as in double) the price US consumers would end up paying.

Posted by: les7 | Aug 27 2017 18:12 utc | 64

MAYDAY KOREA! by William R. Polk
highly recommended, this is part 1

Posted by: mauisurfer | Aug 27 2017 19:16 utc | 65

Grieved @ 43

"So when we say the US is in debt, all we're really saying is that banks are being paid interest by the US, every day."

No, not really, and the discussion so far has failed to distinguish between public and private debt. They are not the same by a long shot.

29.4% of Treasuries (Public Debt) are privately held, some of it I assume by banks.

12.4% are held by the Fed.

27.6% are held by various U.S. Government agencies.

5.5% are held by China.

5.6% are held by Japan.

19.5% by other foreign governments.

Banks pay interest to the Fed for reserves.

The Fed turns every penny it “earns” over to Treasury less operating expenses.

The Fed does not charge the government interest. The government spends and the Fed does some of the accounting, as does the Treasury, and the Fed gets paid for it’s services.

So banks are paying interest to the Federal Government, not the other way around, for the use of Fed reserves to balance their books.

The only interest the government pays to banks is whatever holdings a particular bank may have in Treasuries.

All of Public “Debt” is held at the New York Fed in what is functionally equivalent to savings accounts. If held to maturity these funds are moved from the savings account at the Fed to a checking account at the Fed. That’s what it means to “pay back the debt”.

$ become bonds which become $ again. Almost no one would want to hold that level of $. So they roll over their bonds. It’s a free-money scheme for the rich, but no constraint on Federal spending.

The Federal Government is unconstrained in it’s ability to create $, except that money creation is at it’s root the act of the government (monopoly issuer) buying something from the private (non-government) sector and so the availability of real resources is the only constraint. There is no mathematical constraint. Any other so-called constraints are voluntary or self-imposed (like the debt ceiling).

Bankruptcy for the U.S. is therefore impossible unless done so voluntarily, as in refusing to pay bills Congress has already committed to due to failure to raise the “debt” ceiling or some other silly reason.

As an aside, as a consequence of double-entry accounting, any money created by the government will always be “debt” by definition. When money is created it becomes a deposit or asset on the non-government side of the ledger, and by convention the government side is a debit or debt. This is true for any sovereign currency issuer.

The liability is that if you present a $ to the Federal Government for redemption the government is obligated to give you another $ just like it. Not much of a burden.

Posted by: paulmeli | Aug 27 2017 21:05 utc | 66

When debt interest eats all tax revenue a jubilee occurs. Trade has left that behind, so the financiers eat each other. Turtle Island NW Coast nations gave it all away to be remembered well, as well to take some heat of their debtors knowing that like Bhachinka Bhinball it falls back home. Canada could 'embrace' the rest of Turtle Island and Carib, and Greenaland in our nation, a trade Regime...take the world. Ou Canada goes beyond the Canadian River where the Comanches only slowed us down. The good Col. Tyrant Killer 'defending' Vancouver, Brutish Colonia from somewhere in a cave in Virginia since 1779 from whonow? Our storm-trooer comedians have left irony to seed wonderment amoungst our nice neighbours, laugh out loud on the keyboard. Like snow-shoeing over the battlements and roofs/rooves to give a hand to the boys in the Armoury, maybe. I'd still want to have the Col. and his crew stirring the fire during the stormy nights, tho; and thinking of them as uncles for their best advice. He could watch the watchmen (there's a Latin Version only a Lawyer could Love). Even allowed comments on 9-11 leading to some shitty little country north of Mecca.But whadda ya gonna do? Dirty Cards. Bad luck with friends like that. Whirl wind harvesting in a buyers market.
Thanks b and all. Good health is nearby. Cannabinol hunting head of Salish Sea

Posted by: failure of imagination | Aug 27 2017 23:12 utc | 67

Re: Donald Cook -seriously, thats some of the dumbest BS I ever heard. In dumbass terms, you guys win the world championship

You people talk an astounding amount of utter shite.

The USS Cook was buzzed two seperate times in total, once in the Black sea, the event you gullible morons are currently waffling over, and once again several months later in the Baltic in exactly the same manner, while patroling just off the coast of Kalliningrad.

No shots, warning or otherwise, were fired on either occasion. Russian propagandists wrote no crew mutinty stories for gullible morons like "b real" to waffle shite about, on the second occasion. Yet they were undoubtedly buzzed by a Russki fighter, in that 2nd incident, both sides admit it, and there is even video evidence of the event.

You morons however seem to need to invent absurdities for whatever reason.

I note that the shite waffling contigent complete ignore the 2nd event, which was captured on video, when regaling everyone with their childish "super seekrit Russki EMD weapon" fairytales

For some reason it important that the 2nd incident be ignored, by the dumbass contingent. I can only presume the video evidence of the 2nd Baltic incident is what causes the dumbasses to avoid it like the plague

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Aug 28 2017 0:21 utc | 68

b4real | Aug 27, 2017 12:56:56 PM | 62

You were not the one I was referring to; the one just above, is a virtual repeat of said behavior.
Enough said...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 28 2017 1:49 utc | 69

Two very different incidents Just Sayin. The baltic sea incident was just standard harassment, low passes beside the ship ect. Happens all the time, all sides do it to enemy spy ships and planes and that Donald Cook, what 40k from Russian naval base was doing just that.
With the black sea incident, Russia believed Donald cook had a different intent regading Crimea.
The Russian intent in that case was to force Donald Cook to turn back rather than continuing its course towards Crimea. That required a little more than standard harrassment of a ship on an eavesdropping mission.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 28 2017 1:58 utc | 70

Just Sayin 68

Before I watched the interveiw with Putin, I totaly disbelieved the Donald Cook incident in the black sea. After watching that inteveiw, it seemed something out of the ordinary occurred. The incident occurred at a time when the polite green Russians had the Ukraine military barracaded in their barracks. From memory of the doco, Russia believed the Donald Cook was moving in to help the coupe regime in Kiev take Crimea.
You realy should read up on the circumstances surrounding each event before calling all and sundry morons.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 28 2017 2:10 utc | 71

Seriously all 4 of you are just simply demented

There's not an ounce of evidence for any of what you say.

Despite the lecture on rembering context, I remeber both incidents and the wider context at least as well as anyone else commenting and clearly far better than most of you.

When asked for evidence you people are completely unable to provide anything reliable, and just waffle on nonstop about "super seekrit EMD weapons" that no one but a fool would believe in, based on what has been presented so far.

Posted by: Just Sayin | Aug 28 2017 3:04 utc | 72

Re: Hoarsewhisperer, psychohistorian, V. Arnold, in regard to your dissing of 9/11 "conspiracy" (and PCR)
Have you ever taken the time to look at the information presented by the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth?
Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 27, 2017 9:57:23 AM | 56

Yes I have looked at the information. And, unlike your good self, I didn't just "look at it" I read and evaluated it. Imo, a list of Architects & Engineers should only include people with a degree in the stated discipline which would qualify them for membership in the Official Professional Institute. The list I read, when Gage's list had circa 1000 names, contained hardly any people which met that standard.
Considering that there must be at least 50,000 qualified and registered Architects & Engineers in the US (interpolating from the number in Oz as a population ratio) A&E's list of 1000, containing hardly any qualified people, isn't just underwhelming, it's pathetically dishonest and deceitful.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 28 2017 6:13 utc | 73

Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 28, 2017 2:13:32 AM | 73

Hear, hear! Case closed...
Makes me tired all over...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 28 2017 6:27 utc | 74

Just Sayin 72

There are three versions of the Donald Cook/black sea incident. The US version, the most likely snsationalised alternative news tabloid version, and the Russian version. The Russian version, as per ther commanding officer in Crimea and putin, I have only found in The Way Back Home doco.
Where is Russia at with regards jamming US systems? By most accounts theyu are one or two generations ahead of the US with their S400 and the S500 that is or will soon go into production. The main problem with these is the electronics. The US cannot jam the radars.
Trumps sixty tomahawk missiles. One failed at launch leaves fifty nine. According to Russian mod only half or less reached there target. I tend to put more weight in something said by Russian mod or political executive than I do of the US.
I found a photo on the net of one Tomahawk missile remains at Tartus. One section of the reckage matched exactly the design of the tomahawk warhead that I looked up. There were no reports of S-300 or S-400 launches. What happened to the missing missiles?
I suspect that Russia is ahead of the US in electronic warfare, to what extent I do not know.
Donald Cook? It is quite likely that after lighting it up with the Bastion targeting radar, Russia also jammed the Donald Cook's Defence systems radars leaving them defenseless. Added to that a couple of S-27s doing strafing runs directly over ther ship rather than close passes. In the incident in the Black sea, the Commanding officer and Putin left no doubts that US ships would be sunk if they tried to interfere in Crimea and take the Russian naval base, Which was part of the prize for the US in regime changing Ukraine.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 28 2017 7:26 utc | 75

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 28, 2017 2:13:32 AM | 73

How do you discredit a movement? By recruiting crazy people with conspiracy theory doubting stuff that simply just happened. So that everybody doubting is discredited as crazy.

There are a few things that are not crazy and at least one is empirical science.

University of Zurich, Banking Institute
Detecting abnormal trading activities in option markets
Marc Chesney, Remo Crameri, Loriano Mancini

They focus on all kinds of mergers and aquisitions plus 9/11

Some influential people knew beforehand and traded accordingly.

And there is the intriguing case of the Ptech Saudi Software company

My guess is that the US deep state has used Saudi secret services as a black box for doing stuff they did not wish to tell congress - since the Cold War Safari Club and the support for the Taliban in Afghanistan.

There are lots of reports on warnings about 9/11 that were not heeded. No one was made responsible for what occured. So yes, some people kind of knew about it and let it happen. Otherwise American people would never have agreed to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 28 2017 7:30 utc | 76 red herring?
The scientific report by the morman scientist who proved jesus went to the US? Nano thermite?
Four dust samples were obtained some months after the event with no proof of origin with intewntion of inspection them for thermite. In reading the report, he was not looking for traces of any other explosive that are commanly used in demolition like C4/plastic explosive. The supposed sites of collection are shown on a map with distances from the buildings ect. The scientist who found jesus runs his magnet accross the dust samples and collects what else - thermite. All the supposed thermite particles from the samples are dumped in together rather than being analysed seperatly. First part of a scientific analysis wouyld be to check particle size from each sample. It would also check for all known explosives used in demolition, yet the man who 'proved' jesus was in amerikkka was only looking for thermite.
And as Hoarsewhisperer has said, the NSIT report on the mechanism of collapse was quite solid. rely on the weight of the building still being carried by the columns after the initial collapse of one floor has occurred.
Saudi nationals, Saudi financed, yet Saudi is a US ally in the destruction of a number of countries from the US fake 'WAR on Terra'
That there was US involvment in 9/11 there is no doubt, but is a red herring.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 28 2017 7:48 utc | 77

so like I said: you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back up what the ridiculous and completely fantastic claims that you and the other fantasists are saying.
I have seen the Documentary you talked about and no where in that documentary is there anything presented that would back up this idiotic talk of yours concerning there super seekrit EMD weapons you and the other 3 or 4 fantasists are constantly waffling on about.

Rather than waffling on about the documentary you could have just been honest and admitted that "NO, I have nothing in terms of evidence, merely my own fantasies. I like to believe the most fantastic claims of Russian propagandists" - that would at least have had the benefit off being honest

Posted by: Just Sayin | Aug 28 2017 9:13 utc | 78

It is quite likely that after lighting it up with the Bastion targeting radar, Russia also jammed the Donald Cook's Defence systems radars leaving them defenseless.

No it isn't - it's not likely at all, you just completely invented that out of thin air.
There is ZERO evidence in that documentary to back up that fantasy. None whatsoever, it's a little bit of info that your brain tagged on, all by itself, to what you actually heard in the documentary.

You invented it, in other words. Score one for the propagandists.

Confirmation Bias is about the nicest thing one could call it.

Posted by: Just Sayin | Aug 28 2017 9:20 utc | 79

Has The Guardian finally turned on the superhero Aung Sang Suu Kyi?

Aung Sang Suu Kyi's office accuses aid workers of helping 'terrorists' in Myanmar
Aung San Suu Kyi’s office has accused international aid workers of helping “terrorists”, a claim that has prompted fears for their safety and been condemned as dangerously irresponsible.

The state counsellor office said it had learned that international aid staff had “participated while extremist terrorists besieged” a village in Rakhine state, adding it would investigate the claims.

The office, headed by Suu Kyi who is the country’s de facto leader, also posted a photo of United Nations world food programme biscuits which it said were found on 30 July “at the camp where terrorists sheltered”.

The government statements come during a time of spiralling anti-Muslim sentiment, stoked by hardline religious leaders in majority Buddhist Myanmar who accuse UN agencies, with little evidence, of supporting a faction of Islamist militants.

Facing claims of crimes against humanity for army attacks on the minority Muslim Rohingya population, Suu Kyi’s administration has sought to severely restrict access to Rakhine for aid groups and the media while publicly discrediting them.

“In light of the situation on the ground, the UN in Myanmar has decided to temporarily relocate non-critical staff out of Maungdaw,” a UN spokesperson said of the town in Rakhine, without elaborating.

When will the Myanmar " White Helmets" be the subject of a Netflix video?

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 28 2017 9:21 utc | 80

Ghostship | Aug 28, 2017 5:21:58 AM | 80

Facing claims of crimes against humanity for army attacks on the minority Muslim Rohingya population, Suu Kyi’s administration has sought to severely restrict access to Rakhine for aid groups and the media while publicly discrediting them.

As the worm turns, once again, Aung Sang Suu Kyi was one of my few hero's; and now shows her true colors (from martyr to oppressor).
Just goes to show; pick your hero's with utmost care...
Or just possibly, have no hero's; yes, that's the route to walk.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 28 2017 9:44 utc | 81

Your main argument just fuckin sayin seems to be abusing/name calling any who dissagree with your limited, brain challenged US veiwpoint.
U2. Designed to fly high above soviet radar and air defence. Not only did the soviets pick it up on radar, they shot the fuckin thing down.
The cold war history of US USSR and their succesor state Russia, is each getting one step ahead of the other.
US have been flaunting their shit for two and a half decades while Russia hs whatched. I doubt Russia has spent this time wanking. Instead of spending trillions on on flying lemons and such, Russia has put its resourses to kicking the US in the balls - so to speak. They have had two and a half decades to analyse US crap and counter it. I suspectUS is only getting a glimpse of Russia's cards.
Re the Crimea/Donald Cook incedent, Russia may well have shown more than a glimpse.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 28 2017 9:51 utc | 82

Peter AU 1 | Aug 28, 2017 5:51:27 AM | 82

Question: Why do you waste so much energy on that obvious asshole? Troll?
Let b deal with him; I suspect he's not long for this blog, yes?
Russia, in the intellectual department, is far and above the U.S. hegemonic pedantry.
Just saying is an emotional child; a ponzi schoolboy, in a world of few adults; so he gets his rocks off by inciting emotional responses; to further his retarded intelectual maturity.
Mostly, it's why I do not engage him/her any longer...
Cheers to you...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 28 2017 10:04 utc | 83

V Arnold 83
It takes more energy to refrain, and due to health issues, age, and beer, I must conserve my energy. :)

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 28 2017 10:40 utc | 84

Right, sure. Your inability to provide anything concrete in the way of evidence, when asked for it, had nothin to do with it. Obviously


U2. Designed to fly high above soviet radar and air defence. Not only did the soviets pick it up on radar, they shot the fuckin thing down.
The cold war history of US USSR and their succesor state Russia, is each getting one step ahead of the other.

This has nothing to do with the matter under discussion
An incident where US designers relied on distance and speed to outrun any pursuit, and turned out to be wrong, versus vague ever-changing mumblings about another "incident" coupled with fantastic claims of a new weapon with ever-changing array of fantastic powers eg: EMD (?) "electronics fried" etc etc,and other such authoritatively stated nonsense made by people who clearly haven't got a clue what they are talking about

    Regarding the Cook, In my lifetime, I do not recall any U.S. Navy ship allowing itself to fake-strafed. There is little doubt in my mind that standard orders are to fire a warning shot.

    Didn't happen.

    Occam's that.


There were 2 incidents with the Cook alone, in two separate geographic locations thousands of mile apart. In neither incident were shots fired. Clearly this person doesn't know what they are talking about.

You people are talking about a new weapon with vaguely defined/alluded-to powers that even the weapon manufacturers seem to laugh at, and you can't even demonstrate that you know anything at all about the situation nor the subject matter other than the contents of a documentary which you claim contain the "evidence" that you found so convincing.

Posted by: Just Sayin | Aug 28 2017 10:51 utc | 85

Peter AU 1 | Aug 28, 2017 6:40:17 AM | 84

Actually, I undestand that; used to be me.
Age? Really; I'm 72 and counting...
I quit beer about 4 months ago; But I do like gin, and sometimes tonic.
Which I'm enjoying as I write/type...
Keep on keeping on...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 28 2017 11:03 utc | 86

Back in comments 9 & 12 of this thread I reported about India shutting down (snapped) in various areas to control unrest. Below is an article from another source about that issue.

India responds to internet shutdown criticism... by codifying rules to make it legal

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 29 2017 5:46 utc | 87

That is shutting down the internet in various the first article they call it snapped

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 29 2017 5:48 utc | 88

North Korea has tested another missile by sending it over Japan. The Yanks are blustering, Julie Bishop is livid, in a vassal-ish kind of way, and Japan has called an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to be held in private. So, what is Japan worried about that requires (Maxwell Smart's) Cone of Silence to be lowered onto a UN meeting?

Probably what China is going to say...

In "News" last night China's Foreign Ministry stressed that AmeriKKKa should stop provoking North Korea. This morning that snippet of Chinese wisdom had been erased from the MSM's version of the NK SNAFU.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 30 2017 6:43 utc | 89

Hoarsewhisperer 89
Havn't bothered following local politics here for awhile now. Bishop seems like a bit of an ocean going tadpole, as per the Abbott team. A little noise in a big world. Anglosphere ect.
Where does Turnbull stand? He seems like he will go to the highest bidder?

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 30 2017 6:57 utc | 90

Re: Ken Nari | Aug 27, 2017 1:26:43 PM | 63
Sorry, I conflated two stories. Wiki, history of Wrangel Island:

In 1921, Stefansson sent five settlers (the Canadian Allan Crawford, three Americans: Fred Maurer, Lorne Knight and Milton Galle, and Iñupiat seamstress and cook Ada Blackjack) to the island in a speculative attempt to claim it for Canada.[31] The explorers were handpicked by Stefansson based upon their previous experience and academic credentials. Stefansson considered those with advanced knowledge in the fields of geography and science for this expedition. At the time, Stefansson claimed that his purpose was to head off a possible Japanese claim.[32] An attempt to relieve this group in 1922 failed when the schooner Teddy Bear under Captain Joe Bernard became stuck in the ice.[33] In 1923, the sole survivor of the Wrangel Island expedition, Ada Blackjack, was rescued by a ship that left another party of 13 (American Charles Wells and 12 Inuit).

Wrangel Island Inhabitants on board Krasnyy Oktyabr 1924
In 1924, the Soviet Union removed the American and 13 Inuit (one was born on the island) of this settlement aboard the Krasny Oktyabr. Wells subsequently died of pneumonia in Vladivostok during a diplomatic American-Soviet row about an American boundary marker on the Siberian coast, and so did an Inuit child. The others were deported from Vladivostok to the Chinese border post Suifenhe, but the Chinese government did not want to accept them as the American consul in Harbin told them the Inuit were not American citizens. Later, the American government came up with a statement that the Inuit were 'wards' of the United States, but that there were no funds for returning them. Eventually, the American Red Cross came up with $1600 for their return. They subsequently moved through Dalian, Kobe and Seattle (where another Inuit child drowned during the wait for the return trip to Alaska) back to Nome.[34]

During the Soviet trip, the American reindeer owner Carl J. Lomen from Nome had taken over the possessions of Stefansson and had acquired explicit support ("go and hold it") from US Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes to claim the island for the United States,[35] a goal about which the Russian expedition got to hear during their trip. Lomen dispatched the MS Herman, commanded by captain Louis L. Lane. Due to unfavorable ice conditions, the Herman could not get any further than Herald Island, where the American flag was raised.[36]

In 1926, the government of the Soviet Union reaffirmed the Tsarist claim to sovereignty over Wrangel Island.


So white Americans sent to Wrangel died, and Eskimo were treated very shabbily. Now I recall how Eskimo survive in Arctic. "Manly way" is to hunt sea mammals, and "feminine way" is to kill sea birds during nesting season. Freezing food for later consumption is not a problem.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 30 2017 23:09 utc | 91

God bless pres. Trump.

Speeding driver, car, aim for presidential motorcade, jumps bar ditch

Secret Service agents apprehend driver of mysterious vehicle which headed for President Trump’s motorcade at a high rate of speed Wednesday

SPRINGFIELD (INTELLIHUB) — What appeared to be a crazed driver and their speeding car flew out of the woods and across a bar ditch before heading straight for President Donald J. Trump’s motorcade during his visit to Missouri on Wednesday.

A video posted to YouTube by Clayte Hefner documents what happened at the moment when a white car could be seen by eyewitnesses emerging from the woods at a high rate of speed as if it was trying to intercept the president’s limo...

Posted by: ProPeace | Sep 1 2017 1:58 utc | 92

- Jared Kushner (and family) has/have some BIG financial problems

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 1 2017 7:05 utc | 93

Putin warns Washington provocative rhetoric could spark ‘large-scale conflict’ with North Korea

Lavrov says Washington not Pyongyang should take the initiative on constructive talks to reduce tensions between the countries.

This seems the obvious course of action, if the intent is to reduce tensions.

Posted by: poster formerly known as oneoffposter | Sep 1 2017 19:33 utc | 94

Disgusting. Any normal person should boycott him, his asssoxiates"

Stooge Conan O'Brien frolics with Netanyahu and the Israeli army

Posted by: ProPeace | Sep 2 2017 2:00 utc | 95

NK sent a missile over Jp into the Pacific.
The Jp are up in a tizzy.

NYT chided disapprovingly,
'A Pacifist Japan Starts to Embrace the Military'
[tsk tsk tsk,
yeah sure, uncle sham has nuthin to do with this, hhhhhh]

Well done Kim my boy,
A couple more good performance like this would send the jps into pre 1939 full banzai mode.

mission accomplished !


Posted by: denk | Sep 2 2017 5:22 utc | 96

@ Willy2 #93

what a crazy coincidence that the address of that building is 666

sometimes this stuff really does make you wonder.

Posted by: dan of steele | Sep 2 2017 13:24 utc | 97

@ #97:

- Didn't notice that right away. But you're right. The number 666 is certainly a bad/ominous omen.
- It proves for me that even rich people DO make BIG mistakes/judgement calls. But I assume J. Kushner will (ab)use his position in the White House to promote his own financial interests.
- Same story for one Ivanka Trump ..................

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 3 2017 13:52 utc | 98

Despite the inherent obstacles to everyone leaping in joy at the new outta Syria not hearing much else, a story outta england is just so over the top and weird yet typical of the horror world we find ourselves in yet funny as fuck to boot I'm gonna post on it.
The englanders are skilled spinners - one only has to consider the "former MI6 officer documents trump's Russian golden shower" complete fabrication to get a gist. The story was completely untrue yet it dominated the news for nearly two weeks and provided the 'break through' which dems believed was essential to protect their slimy neolib asses.
Of all the spinners one, a bloke by the name of Tim Bell (now lord bell) stood head and shoulders above the rest. Bell is a case study in sociopathy nowadays he talks and behaves like a member of a centuries old aristo family - in fact he was a grammar school boy from a family of strugglers. He kicked off by being Margaret Thatcher's Sean Spicer. After a while he set up his own firm 'Bell Pottinger" in the late 1980's to sell lies to the masses worldwide. No asshole was too smelly, the Pinochet creep who worked as chief marionette for amerika butchering thousands of Chilean humanists was a typical Bell Pottinger client. So was FW DeKlerk the last jaapie (white south african) leader of the apartheid state.
This week Bell Pottinger and tim bell have been swamped to obliteration over a south african deal. They are no more.
But the kicker is that they didn't go down for lying - they got topped by the world's other media spinners for telling the truth.

Their truth was that life is so tough in South Africa because economic apartheid still reigns. The indigenous people may be able to vote but only the same as everyone else in our brave new world - that is for a choice between tweedledum or tweedledee.

Hired by an extremely wealthy south african family who would once have been called 'coloured' they migrated to South Africa from the Indian subcontinent, Bell Pottinger was tasked with creating interference to distract citizens from the Guptas (that is the family name) close association with South African president Jacob Zuma. The Guptas got to select the South African finance minister and Zumas kids got high powered jobs with the Guptas. All standard neolib corruption.
It wasn't going down very well in south africa though. The penny had finally dropped that the ANC was never going to build houses for everyone and among whitefellas who still retain enough racist brainwashing to distrust all 'asians' the optics were worse.

Bell who owes his allegiance solely to money ,was concerned that his emeritus deceiver gig and its annual stipend of one million pounds p.a. was under threat from the Bell Pottinger board so he headed down to jaapieland to sell a contract for distracting citizens from the reality of a corrupt ANC, by making lots of noise about another reality the hard truth about the lack of change in south africa's racist economic structure.

That wasn't well received by the jaapies who had been using their media stakes to kick up about Zuma's rorts in order to distract from their continued ownership of as Karl would have put it, 'The means of production'.
It went down even less well in england where the ultimate beneficiaries of that ownership hang out. The beneficiaries kicked up and bell is now dog tucker. It couldn't happen to a sleazier fella.

Meanwhile we get to appreciate the humour of a mob of lying low lifes coming undone for telling the truth.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 6 2017 1:12 utc | 99

Below are two links from ChinaNews that I found interesting.

The first is an article about Xi and Modi putting out a joint statement stressing stable, cooperative China/India ties and for me the take away statements are:
The meeting came after a military stand-off lasting more than two months with more than 270 Indian troops with two bulldozers crossing the boundary in mid-June into the Dong Lang (Doklam) area, which is Chinese territory, to obstruct infrastructure construction.
On Aug. 28, China confirmed that India had withdrawn personnel and equipment from Doklam, and said Chinese armed forces would strengthen patrols and defense of the area to resolutely safeguard sovereign security.
Xi said the two sides should maintain mutual respect, seek common ground while shelving differences, and safeguard peace in border areas.

The second is a joint statement from the BRICS meeting about global governance. The quotes I thought instructive are:
The annual summit has gathered leaders from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa to discuss pressing development issues from emerging economies. This year, China has proposed "BRICS Plus" by inviting leaders from Egypt, Mexico, Thailand, Tajikistan and Guinea for a dialogue on the sidelines of the summit.
"BRICS continues to be and promises to emerge as a major influence in presenting a new model of financial governance as also in transforming conventional Bretton Woods financial institutions," said Swaran Singh, a professor of Center for International Politics at Jawaharlal Nehru University, in an email interview.
As President Xi put it in a Chinese saying, "It's easy to break one arrow but hard to break ten arrows bundled together." BRICS Plus is expected to expand the coverage of BRICS cooperation and enhance the strengths of the bloc in the international community.
According to the BRICS Leaders Xiamen Declaration released on Monday, the bloc shall strive towards broad partnerships with emerging markets and developing countries, noting that the dialogue and cooperation with non-BRICS countries will be "equal-footed."
In that regard, Kuhn said China is "going out of its way" not to flaunt its power in the governance of BRICS. "For example, even though China's GDP is more than double the other four BRICS countries' GDP combined, each of the five countries has equal voting shares in the BRICS New Development Bank."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 6 2017 6:23 utc | 100

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