Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 30, 2017

Venezuela Coup "Could Blow Up Huge In Many Nations Of The Region"

by Debs is Dead
lifted from a comment

I see somebody has been blathering about the lack of 'democracy' in Venezuela as if it was the Chavezists who were to blame.

The president was elected by the people in a fair election and Chavezists also won the majority in the parliament/constituent assembly, the moment that happened the elitists financed opposition coups pushed out propaganda that was no more than libelous lies and began a programe of overt subversion.

They have continued this for the last 19 years and the irony is of course that if they hadn't done so and instead conducted themselves democratically they may have had a look in at government or coalition by now, but they chose what they thought was the easy way to gutting Venezuela's economy.

The result of the corporate capitalists activities has been the same as it always is when they push illegal acts of insurrection to try and force a reactive oppression - people lose and get hurt.

It is interesting to note that when the coalitions of street kids angry at everything and the sons and daughters of the once protected bourgeoisie hit the streets in their tiny bands to throw rocks and Molotov cocktails the police are very muted in their response - police in Venezuela don't normally carry sidearms but the riot police carry weapons that can only fire anti riot projectiles that are designed to hurt but not main or kill, they also have plastic shields but their actions have been much less violent than those of say the amerikan police - especially when you consider that more than 20 police have been killed in these riots.

I didn't get this info from RT news or any other oppositional news service I got it from the BBC who were desperate to find a shock horror story. They found a kid who had been arrested for throwing bricks at the police and he said that while he was locked up his interrogators demanded that he tell them the leadership or they would rape him "Did you tell them?" says Mr Beeb, "No" says the kid "so did they rape you?" asks Mr Beeb "NO but one of my cellmates had a black eye!" the kid responds.

Yeah right horrible oppression by those commies eh! The fact the beeb were in there trying on this story and running it on englander TV last night suggests that b may be correct when he says amerika is about to try and kick something off. The shots of protesters were all filmed up close - no wide views lest viewers see how few people were protesting, the entire piece could be regarded as a farce except that there is an undercurrent of amerikan violence.

As for the military - yes Cubans were brought in to train the army at the start of the Bolivaran revolution because the army was recruited from the ordinary people - not the usual younger sons of the bourgeoisie so outsiders were needed to train them. Some Cubans liked it so much they elected to stay on but the vast majority of Venezuelan military are local and if they seriously wanted to stage a coup it would be trivial to round up Cubans in a night and go in hard, but the military don't have any such intention, they are loyal to the head of state they swore an oath to.

I really hope that Trump and co don't decide that Venezuela be the victim of his need to divert attention away from his own travails - the result will be much worse even than the bloodthirsty contras of Nicaragua. The war will be long and bloody and it is highly doubtful that amerika could win without terrible violence. Even though the current governments in Central and South America are more 'sympathetic' to amerikan imperialism than those of a decade ago, it is highly unlikely that many if any will openly assist amerika because their own populations will go ape-shit if they do.

This (amerikan interference) could blow up huge and destroy the fragile agreements in place in many nations of the region.

For what? So that rich arse-holes can get richer?

Posted by b on July 30, 2017 at 10:39 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Anxiety is growing in Latin America – the United States and the United Kingdom are preparing a « Spring » for them on the model of the « Arab Springs ». Of course, this time, it will not be a case of spreading war and dividing the populations along religious lines – Latino citizens are practically all Christians – but by using elements of their local identities. The objective will, however, be the same – not to replace the governments with other governments, but to destroy the States in order to eradicate any possibility of resistance to imperialism.

Posted by: Bertrand | Jul 30 2017 10:46 utc | 1

The trouble is that the market for US wars is shrinking by the day, so they need new combat zones to perpetuate the scam of the military expenditure allegedly aimed at "countering threats" & "spreading democracy™ ".
Russia is heavily armed, the same goes for nearly all the BRICS countries, North Korea has nukes, Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia are not enough to quell the thirst for profits of the US MIC, Syria is coming to an end, Iran will be a no-no given its Russian backing, what does it leave? Africa and South America.

Maduro will have to get a bit tougher on his opposition, which is the opposition to the will of the Venezuelan majority. His country cannot afford to devolve into a "civil" war, because a long and bloody war is what Amerika wants.

Posted by: Lea | Jul 30 2017 11:43 utc | 2

I am getting to old to keep trying to sort the bullshit from the floor litter of world (and domestic) events anymore but am now the grateful grandfather of a two month old boy. So I now have a very special reason to keep trying.

Again so many thanks to you b, and of course you also Debs. This site is the one place where I feel 99% sure I'm getting solid facts and information from an ethical and moral source.


Posted by: juannie | Jul 30 2017 11:48 utc | 3

There is still a hole in this account - the 2015 parliamentary election which the right wing opposition won - decidedly.

You have to take Telesur's word for it - from 2015.

But, while the opposition has attracted some of the less politically aware social sectors to its anti-Chavismo discourse, the government has also lost some ground from conscientious and solid revolutionaries, partly due to its lack of a solid response to the "economic war." Although it’s easier said than done to combat a rentier state, capitalist system, historical corruption, and opposition and big business economic sabotage, Maduro has only announced things like national commissions to deal with the situation. While people spend up to seven hours a week lining up for food, and while many of them understand that the government isn't directly responsible for the situation, the lack of a serious response and significant measures hasn't helped support for the government.


For PSUV politicians, there will hopefully be some reflection, and the government will now be in the difficult position of having to compromise with the opposition — with Maduro and his ministers still in power, but unable to allocate extra income (beyond the budget for 2016, passed Dec. 1) or modify laws or approve bilateral and multilateral treaties. After the referendum loss in 2007, Chavez moderated his discourse and policies for a while, and Maduro may be forced to do so even more. It’s hard to know if in these circumstances Maduro will turn to the grassroots for more support, or will distrust them even more after loosing some of their support, and if he will see the outcome as a need for reflection, or purely the consequence of opposition sabotage.

The country is split. It is as simple as that.

Again - Telesur

Blaming Socialism, US Media Distorts Venezuela’s Food Crisis

A new study released by researchers from three Venezuelan universities reported that nearly 75 percent of the population lost an average of 19 pounds in 2016 for lack of food. The report, titled, “2016 Living Conditions Survey,” added that about 32.5 percent of Venezuelans eat only once or twice a day, compared to 11.3 percent last year.

Moreover, 93.3 percent told the researchers that their income was not enough to cover their food needs.

Telesur is on the side of the government blaming the opposition for sabotage - they are likely correct.

But if politicians cannot ensure food security they should pack up and go.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 30 2017 12:10 utc | 4

"But if politicians cannot ensure food security they should pack up and go."

Who controls the food distribution chain? None other than the pro-US oligarchs. They can easily just stop deliveries from leaving their central warehouses even though they are full.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 30 2017 12:30 utc | 5

I'm not too worried. From what I have been reading the violence is mostly in the rich neighborhoods of the country and in the poor areas people are going about their every day business. Whenever the violent protesters threatens an area/neighborhood that supports the government, those people ban together along with the police/military to protect it. And they have been pretty successful at it. The true people are taking back the corporate businesses that were shut down and operating them, developing more agriculture and are starting to import foods from Russia. Not going to hear this on any western media. I not think but know that Venezuela is ready for the US to try a coup. Go to Telesur English which covers news from the Venezuela, West Indies and throughout the world.

Posted by: NewYorker | Jul 30 2017 12:37 utc | 6


Chavistas have been in power for - how many years? Enough for being responsible for what happens in the country.

The state - any state - distributing subsidized food and fixing prices simply does not work. It was tried in China and in the Soviet Union with much more state power than Venezuela ever had and it resulted in starvation and scarcity.

A bureaucracy - any bureaucracy - is just not clever enough to deal with all the unintended consequences.

Like importing and subsidizing food puts your own food production out of business. Subsidizing food means it is cheap for everyone, including well off people you could afford to pay more .... and so on.

Socialism works when the state gives cash to the people who need it to buy what they want to buy.

To compare - this here is Iran's oil subsidy reform of 2010

Posted by: somebody | Jul 30 2017 13:49 utc | 7

The war will be long and bloody and it is highly doubtful that amerika could win without terrible violence

is this an epitaph in search of a tombstone?

John Zorn has a soundtrack,

and Basquiat got filthy rich off of it,

albeit mostly in the 29 years since he died of a heroin overdose.

Posted by: john | Jul 30 2017 13:54 utc | 8


Yep. Russia agreed to begin to send wheat in August.

This will cut business of US and Canadian farmers

Posted by: somebody | Jul 30 2017 13:58 utc | 9

i hope it's okay to post this, b, but there are some good links to follow here for live updates (both telesur and, i'd meant and twitter accounts.

'Voting Underway in Venezuela’s Constituent Assembly Election', july 30, café

Posted by: wendy davis | Jul 30 2017 14:34 utc | 10

¨There is still a hole in this account - the 2015 parliamentary election which the right wing opposition won - decidedly.¨ Yes, but what have they done to fix the economy or the country? - NOTHING. All they want is to get rid of the chavistas if it means destroying the country first, but most people are aware of this and the fact that the opposition is composed of murders and fascists.

Posted by: Victor J | Jul 30 2017 15:01 utc | 11

Anyone can argue, to the cows come home, about protesters this, government that, but, the real story remains, how can ANY country organize their affairs while an external force, such as the historical interference by the U$A continues?

Great article Debs, thanks.

And all for the sake of ever increasing profits for a small segment of humanity.

" It's just business, get over it."

Posted by: ben | Jul 30 2017 15:03 utc | 12

A trusted colleague wrote THIS for NACLA.

Posted by: Maracatu | Jul 30 2017 15:09 utc | 13

Chavez was aware of the shortcomings of the ¨revolution¨ and wanted to bring real power to the people (direct democracy) and away from representatives that were becoming corrupt ( as always happens). He was murdered before he could accomplish anything.

Posted by: Victor J | Jul 30 2017 15:09 utc | 14
Sale in New York of painting that depicts a face in the shape of a skull sets a record price for an American artist at auction
• Basquiat $110.5m sale proof of art’s growing attraction to super-rich

Posted by: okie farmer | Jul 30 2017 15:41 utc | 15

Venezuela's probably down the list of priorities. But it's good to point out the somewhat tepid response to massive and in some cases violent protests with actions of US allies. The ones that come to mind are Saudi, Bahrain, and other violent responses to protests. It's a distinct myopia.

In Venezuela, maybe the US friends are not successful in regime change efforts (like against Chavez) and may push more for civil war Libya/Syria style efforts. Back to global chessboard antics of Brzezinski/Kissinger to not let any state rise in any region.

Posted by: Curtis | Jul 30 2017 15:55 utc | 16

Nation States formed by republican type of constitutions seek to divide and conquer their population in order to control them. For example a population of 20,000,000 people is divided into group A (400 or elected, salaried persons) and Group B (everyone else).
Group A is given all of the power and paid a salaryGroup B is given none of the power and is never paid a salary group A... Persons inGroup B must somehow convince a majority of those in Group A to do something or to refrain from doing something, Otherwise persons in Group B are rendered silent, ignorable or intolerable.

Posted by: junia | Jul 30 2017 16:17 utc | 17

Good move Venezuela to Investigate Food Giant Kraft Heinz for 'Sabotage'

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 30 2017 16:19 utc | 18

thanks debs is dead! it is interesting you mentioning bbc, as i just finished reading a few off gaurdian posts on the topic of venezuala on the previous thread... for anyone who missed them they are here
and here.

Posted by: james | Jul 30 2017 16:43 utc | 19

The answer is yes, so that rich arse-holes can get richer.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Jul 30 2017 16:51 utc | 20

Venezuela was doing tolerably well until oil prices collapsed.

The government response was to set prices for goods.

If they set prices too high there will be an abundance of supply with a lack of customers. If they set prices too low there will be and abundance of customers with a lack of supply.

Central planning can never adjust for all the factors involved. Only customers and producers in each location can do that. Such a system is called a market system.


Can the government make Kraft sell at prices the government wants? Well they can expropriate what Kraft owns. Then what?

The proof of bad economic management is the rapid inflation of the currency.

Posted by: MSimon | Jul 30 2017 16:55 utc | 21

NewYorker 6
USN&WR tends to support what you're saying. Most of the country is calm. It's interesting that polls show 50% of respondents don't support the government OR the opposition.

MSimon 21
When Saudis dropped oil prices, they claimed they were after market share. Of course, Russia, Iran, and others were targets. But was Venezuela one, too (and US approved)?

Posted by: Curtis | Jul 30 2017 17:19 utc | 22

Again, I have contributed plenty to the subject in the last thread and was being ridiculed for it. If people here quote TeleSur and think it's an impartial source I start to question their coherence. TeleSur being financed primarily by the Venezuelan Government (other governments such as Bolivia, Nicaragua, Cuba and Ecuador also support it). I mean how can you form an opinion about a domestic matter from a state owned/controlled news channel? It's not like you believed CNN in the US, I wouldn't either, but TeleSur is the equivalent for Maduro. In a country that had its media all brought in line with the official narrative of the government a long time ago.

Today it is reported that more students have been injured by massive reprisal attacks from the military police. Though, why exactly is this Constituent Assembly being voted on today? Considering the government could have easily held the referendum on revoking Maduro last year since it claims to hold a vast absolute majority, they should have won easily? Given these circumstances why wait all this time and accept massive demonstrations instead? Why imprison opposition lawmakers, several of which still remain in prison? Why seek excuses and delay the election of state governors this year? Critical thinking in this forum should not turn off, just because you want Maduro to be the good guy and think any chaos is somehow automatically inflicted from the outside.

A few facts. Chavism has controlled Venezuela for the last 19 years. Not just recently - no, a long time. In this time the government failed to diversify the economy away from oil but far worse it actually made it more oil dependent by destroying the few industries that existed through a vigorous nationalization policy. This has led to a near 100% dependence of oil revenues for government revenues (It was always too high even before Chavez). In the meantime the government stopped investing in oil well development and maintenance of refineries. This in turn led to a gradual drop in oil exports starting way before the demonstrations in the late H. Chavez years, but accelerating in recent years.
Today is the culmination of how the military has been trying to gain supreme power making it de jure, not just de facto which it has been for a while now. The Assembly which while true shows up as an option in the Chavista constitution in Article 347/348 should have only been launched after a national referendum on it. Something that was of course not done as it would defeat the purpose.

Maduro tried to vote today with 'his' 'carnet de la patria' the guard every Venezuelan needs according to the government in order to obtain subsidized food (that is often unavailable), when he proceeded to vote the system read 'This person does not exist or the card has been annulled'. Quite obviously it wasn't 'his' card as it's a card only meant for the poor, he was quickly able to get one to "vote". It is this card that the government claims though makes this voting so legitimate and so 'bullet-proof'. The whole show though is nothing more than that a show, to legitimize the move to a totalitarian system. Sadly too many people somehow think this is a battle for Venezuela's independence when in reality it is not.

Posted by: Alexander P | Jul 30 2017 17:32 utc | 23

Sorry but you are living in a world of myth