Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 07, 2017

Open Deescalation Thread

I am off to appreciate the deescalation measures Hamburg police prepared for tonight.

Picture via Der Postillon bigger

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on July 7, 2017 at 17:54 UTC | Permalink

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Penelope you do not link to the Economist. Spreading fake news?

Where do you live? The US?

Desert change in California due to global warming

Yes, it is complex. But only by playing the oistrich you don't see it happening.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 9 2017 7:58 utc | 101

add to 98/96

If you are in need of a real Economist link - here it is

2016 is virtually certain to be the hottest year on record

Posted by: somebody | Jul 9 2017 8:01 utc | 102

Grieved 91

I have to agree with karlof1 @94.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 9 2017 8:53 utc | 103

I'll elaborate on Peter Au 's comment @ 100 and extend it with thanks to b for his assessment. How beautiful are the feet of those bearing good news - I can take as much of that as folk want to bring here, and will be enjoying this Sunday reading the thoughtfully provided links. Thank you all very much.

To b @ 82, how wonderful that in Germany you don't use guns on protesters - that is simply huge. Germans ought to be very proud. You are civilized! And thanks too for your good news concerning Mosul - Iraqis can be proud as well! If Trump will continue on this footing, I have a new slogan for his re-election campaign - "Making America proud again!" Not great- proud. In the best sense of that word. Proud to be no longer pretending virtue but practising it.

Grieved - you can never post too many times for me. Thanks for your valuable information. I always feel I represent the uninformed masses here, we who come to be enlightened. I had felt 'no news is good news' but now we have good news as well. Oh, how we need that!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 9 2017 13:37 utc | 104

Cease-fire Syria. The actual content has been a while in the making as i understand it - see jeff 2 and karlof 6 - it looks very much like a put out something positive’ move. Positive, as Grieved 24 elaborates.

Grieved: imho Trump is no fool and is far smarter than he lets on / is portrayed. Imagine how ‘intelligent’ he would ‘be’ if the US MSM (and other factions) were behind him! He would be a Man with a new Vision, a necessary nationalism, a steady forward path, great charisma, deals, etc., a sometimes rough-n-ready style which is uniquely American, a welcome change from PC hypocrisy and double dealing, a supreme capacity for understanding others, a man of restraint re. killing but for development (and against human trafficking etc.), equality, and women, a moral man, and blessed with the loveliest smartest wife (family..) ever…etc. etc. Even his choice of ties would be praised.. ;)

So -> .. Trump is an accidental president, those who nominated him to the job (electorate) are not those who he has to work with, as US democracy is a sham. DT is a danger to the PTB as he is not one of them, has shown blatantly he is opposed to many sections of the PTB agenda, has made open and explicit threats against them. One main struggle for the future taking place today is in the US: between DT - and maybe one day- his supporters vs. many other powers (not all) in the US (marginally in o. / W.)

Putin, no surprise, in the 1st clip of meet I viewed, hit the nail on the head, and supposedly said to DT, are these the guys who are insulting you (media)? (DT said yes.)


US MSM (hangers-on => EU, etc.), have taken on a new powerful power (fascist type of course) on the block ... tools of neo-con US-Isr dominated NWO ... grasping for last remnants of revenues ), or some combo, thus are attacking Trump and Putin at the same time. (See typically Dem. prop. in US, and in France.) In fact imho they managed to block them meeting for a while, a triumph. Now that the parties talked all must be done to undermine and discredit the meet.

Why? Because the MSM’s power rests on global reach, manipulation, indoctrination, propaganda, persuasion, ‘mind control’ of a type if one favors that expression, getting ppl to be afraid, passive, subservient, hating and unhappy, belligerent eventually or ready to fight out of despair. The negative ‘tools’ are more powerful and effective than the ‘positive.’

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 9 2017 13:42 utc | 105

We see in Hamburg the meeting between Putin and Trump as heads of state of their respective nations and satellites. If the political in the west is controlled by its financial overlords what is the situation in Russia? Who ultimately calls the shots. Does the political in Russia, watched over by Putin, determine the decisions that the Russian government makes or does its Central Bank as a BIS member get the final say, or if not the final the ultimate call on destiny? The rest as often referred to as being Kabuki theater. Or to put it another way do the apex elites of this world have a general consensus with one another while they all jockey to be first among equals in that rarefied scene, with a wink and a nod as to the rest of humanity? This question arises as both the western plutocracy and the Russian oligarchy each own and control close enough to the same amount, considering the enormity of their positions, of all wealth and assets within their respective bailiwicks. The western bailiwick being orders of magnitude larger than the Russian one. Is this ultimately a fight between elites; one trying to enlarge their take (Russian oligarchy) the other (western corportocracy) trying to hold on and expand their influence and take. All watched over by a banking cabal that issues credit and money to those it favours or wishes to more deeply control.

Posted by: BRF | Jul 9 2017 13:56 utc | 106

Posted by: b | Jul 8, 2017 12:09:09 PM | 82

Thanks for the front-line feedback.
It all adds up and the thread would have been incomplete without it.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 9 2017 14:47 utc | 107

Here we go again,

Tillerson meet with Poroshenko: Russia must end violence inside Ukraine

Time to quit wishing on the stupid neocon-administration Trump is running? These people are plain dumb.

Posted by: Anonyous | Jul 9 2017 15:27 utc | 108


Actually, Germany's left had better think through their solidarity.

Researching the "welcome to hell demonstration website (extremely professional)" I came across the Brazilian owner and connection with hedonist international and then - a Brazilian blog doing the same research as me continuing to connect the black block, indymedia and George Soros.

They describe black bloc members as "ovomaltine anarchists" and "caviar communists" plus say they enter political movements like a virus.

This here is from occupy unmasking the black block

with this illuminating comment

Police provocateurs love black bloc tactics. There's nothing easier than putting on masks, turning peaceful protests violent, then having an excuse to shut them down. Bonus: instead of talking about the issues, the public talks about violence instead.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 9 2017 15:39 utc | 109

Here we go again,
Tillerson meet with Poroshenko: Russia must end violence inside Ukraine
Time to quit wishing on the stupid neocon-administration Trump is running? These people are plain dumb.
Posted by: Anonyous | Jul 9, 2017 11:27:56 AM | 104

Dumbfounding, isn't it?
I sometimes wonder if the ideologues relentlessly persisting with this drivel feel that they have some kind of privileged impunity/immunity if/when AmeriKKKa reaps the whirlwind resulting from a miscalculation inherent in believing so much of their own bs?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 9 2017 15:51 utc | 110

@102 Noriette - for me, at least, you have provided a summary of observances that ring true to what I too have been watching/witnessing.

Like you said, Trump and team are not stupid, ill informed or by any means, fellow followers. They are Leaders. Traits the United States has been sorely lacking on the world stage for decades now.

Here's the thing that has always bothered me more about the left than the right, more the left because at one time I was a very useful idiot who worked for, volunteered for and voted for democrats - local, state and national - that is, I do not recall any such candidates ever OPENLY running on a globalization platform. Ever. Yet, from Clinton to Bush (RINO not a Republican or Democrat) to Obama this was always their hidden agenda or better their 'guiding point of light.'

Obama was the epitome of Sr.'s 'One World Order'. Who can forget him accepting his party's nomination in Denver while standing in front of a Roman Coliseum backdrop. Hello? What nominee in all of American election history ever accepted his party's nomination against such an 'in your face' ruler of the world scene?

Of course, all of this is so blatantly obvious to me now, but I'm not so sure it is to the majority of the American electorate. I can only hope that zeitgeist moment will be reached during my lifetime. But in the meantime, we have President Trump who is the absolute polar opposite of the wannabe globalists. He's like a form of 'shock therapy' to those who stubbornly remain in the neolib/con communication matrix.

It's breathtaking to see just how close these globalists are/were to achieving their goals and had Hillary succeeded, I fully believe the globalists underhanded, hidden, nefarious agenda would have been a sealed deal. And is it just me, or is the word 'globalist' a rebranding of Hitlerism? It sure smells and feels that way to me.

When I do just a cursory review of the last 24 years of Prez's, I can clearly see the dismantling of the safeguards put in place long ago to protect the people, the state and our sovereignty beginning with the repeal of Glass Steagall, the repeal of the Mundt Act, the enactment via the Executive of suffocating regulations, the implementation of the all encompassing surveillance state, the for profit criminal justice system, the deliberate dumbing down of our children via the public education system, the purposeful monopoly of six corporate titans who own the majority of all national mainstream media including local and state, the conquering wars of the Middle East starting with 'Shock and Awe' and then 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Syria...I could go on and on but won't.

I'll stop here and just simply thank you for sharing your thoughtful insight, Noriette. It's most appreciated.

Posted by: h | Jul 9 2017 16:03 utc | 111


Indeed dumbfounding is the word, one second US want great relations with Russia, next second you hear this?
What is more important for US interests? Getting good relations with Russia? Or keep blaming, sanction, threaten, demonize Russia for a conflict which Russia isnt the driving force behind?

Posted by: Anonyous | Jul 9 2017 16:05 utc | 112

@108 Not too hard to figure when you parse it. The US wants 'great relations' with Russia on its own terms. i.e. Russians have to be more cooperative.

It's similar to Israel wanting peace.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2017 16:13 utc | 113

Cassad has very good comment on this. Basically, T. Rex had to comfort the loyal dogs and assure that The Great Empire Of Good is not going to abandon them. Donny & Vlad maybe dig each other, however love is love and business is business.

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 9 2017 16:54 utc | 114

@108 Yet another interpretation.....Trump got a lot of flak for even talking to Putin. Some say he was hoodwinked. So Tillerson has to reset the balance.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2017 17:12 utc | 115

I have a question to Bernhard (B?)

How do I reach you?

Posted by: Bjorn richter | Jul 9 2017 17:30 utc | 116

Nikki Haley repeat the anti-russian neocon stance,

‘We cannot trust Russia & we won’t ever trust Russia’ – US envoy to UN
“Everybody knows that Russia meddled in our elections. Everybody knows that they’re not just meddling in the United States’ election. They’re doing this across multiple continents, and they’re doing this in a way that they’re trying to cause chaos within the countries,” Haley told CNN’s State of the Union show."

Posted by: Anonyous | Jul 9 2017 17:34 utc | 117

‘We cannot trust Russia & we won’t ever trust Russia’ – US envoy to UN

Oooh, the US is heartbroken. So powerful, yet so fragile and delicate...

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 9 2017 18:05 utc | 118

@114 We hate you Russia. Hate you, hate you, hate you! We will NEVER trust you. NEVER EVER!! Stamps foot and storms out.

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2017 18:44 utc | 119

Israel gets to keep the already stolen Golan with its UNSCRs stating it's illegal
The de escalation zones will give Israel more of the Syrian Golan. ...with tricks
A plenty to have Hezbollah and IRGC as illegal forces in de escalation zones.
Putin/Lavrov will not resist the Israeli gambit.
The US getting Suweida as de escalation zone....cut FSA a large piece of Syria,
While US get Kurd North. ..7 military bases. that Air America V 22 Ospreys
Can fly Afghan/Kurd Opium around Syria.
Erdogan will really flip out then!

Posted by: Brad | Jul 9 2017 20:31 utc | 120

Many are pining their hopes for peace on the Putin-Trump relationship. But, 1) does "chemistry", diplomatic happy talk, and baby steps actually mean that we are on the road to peace? And does Trump really have the power and inclination to make peace?

What we see, time and time again, is ambivalence and treachery on the part of 'Assad must go!' Coalition countries. It feels like they are just playing every angle possible to advantage their position.

Furthermore, it seems deluded to think that Trump is somehow different (Noirette: "accidental President") given that:

>he was close to the Clinton's for a long time;

> he is part of the US establishment

> the US political system is designed to prevent a Citizen's United, US debates

> Trump has appointed neocons, and given wide latitude to the military;

> Trump rushed to bomb Syria on pretext;

> Trump's Polish speech - not encouraging.

Also, the US now makes a point of warning that they will hold Syria and Russia accountable for any use of chemical weapons on Syrian soil. And US has refused a Russian offer to inspect Shayrat airbase for chemical weapons. (ht James @34)

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 9 2017 22:55 utc | 121

that should be:

the US political system is designed to prevent a true populist from gaining high office - measures such as: Citizen's United (money rules), limited access to US debates, etc.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 9 2017 23:02 utc | 122

From SouthFront I read Al-queda still receiving "US-Made" TOW missiles. Mebbe this so-called "ceasefire" is contingent on the terrorists having a ready supply of ordnance so they can bide their time before the next strike at which time the United$hit$ will make stern speeches and call for another "ceasefire".

Posted by: ruralito | Jul 9 2017 23:08 utc | 123

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 9, 2017 6:55:48 PM | 117
(anti-Trump warnings + factoids)

Trump thinks he's smarter than average and I do too. His powerful hi-profile pre-Presidential acquaintances helped to elevate him above and beyond the rank of any run-of-the mill outsider. A conventional, under-achieving political flack/lackey was NEVER going to attract the confidence of the electorate the way Trump managed to do. There are plenty of those already and they continue to be embarrassingly forgettable (and untrustworthy).
Trump led ppl to believe that he had a plan to drain the Swamp and I've seen no evidence whatsoever, as of July 9 2017, that he was just kidding. He may not succeed but he deserves some kudos for putting a successful career on hold to try and restore the American Dream to its former glory.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 10 2017 3:55 utc | 124

Jackrabbit @117:

And does Trump really have the power and inclination to make peace?

Partial answer: walking back of one of the three 'baby steps' within 48 hours (ht Trump Folds On Russia Cybersecurity Cooperation)

The fact that President Putin and I discussed a Cyber Security unit doesn't mean I think it can happen. It can't-but a ceasefire can,& did!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 10, 2017

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Hillary: public position and private position.

Trump: public, private, and 'Russian negotiation' positions.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2017 4:06 utc | 125

Hoarsewhisperer @126

I'm not anti-Trump Hoarse. I think the 2016 election was a complete set-up. IMO Trump is a faux-populist leader just like Obama. IMO this is natural for an inverted totalitarian system.


1) Trump's announcing that he would NOT prosecute Hillary within days of winning the election coupled with Hillary's health scare in the weeks before and after her 'health event' at the 9-11 memorial.

Hillary seems to be the picture of health today. The media 'scare' faded soon after 9-11. She's still on top of the DNC. But as backdrop to Trump's announcement - and excuse to let her off the hook - it certainly worked well, didn't it?

2) Trump's shifting definition of 'America First'. How was rushing to bomb Syria 'America First'? He warned Obama NOT to bomb in 2013 (in a series of tweets)! Trump virtually ignored the "beautiful babies" that were killed by extremists days after the alleged chemical attack. Refugee children were lured to the bomb with treats.

For that matter, how is ANY involvement in Syria aligned with 'America First'? In fact, during the campaign Trump said we should let Syrians and Russians fight ISIS.

Was it necessary to secure the Saudi arms deal ($350b in weapons)? Why? And is arming the Saudis really in America's best interest? Whenever they start something, we just get drawn in. Where do ISIS's advanced weapons - such as anti-tank weapons - come from?

3) Trump often pushes back on 'fake news' but until a few days ago (in Poland) he hasn't made the point that other countries influence America elections. He refused to say which countries did so. Why doesn't he say this in America? Why doesn't he say it on his twitter? Why doesn't he name the countries?

He attacks Obama for not defending US elections yet Trump won't defend US elections against the influence of these other countries!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2017 4:44 utc | 126

@128 Also why doesnt Trump or Tillerson rein in Samantha Powers V2.0? Nikki Haley's utterances should get her fired..

Posted by: Lozion | Jul 10 2017 5:01 utc | 127

Looks like Israel will not go to war this summer.

The ceasefire deal and de-escalation agreement was agreed by Russia, the US, and Jordan Friday. It applies to Syrian government forces and rebel groups in the Daraa, Quneitra, and Suwayda provinces. ... It is also understood that Russian, American, and Jordanian forces will be dispatched to the area.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2017 7:28 utc | 128

Somebody 128
Those sneaky Russians are slowly, slowly, turning up the heat on the american frogs.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 10 2017 8:14 utc | 129

Re the Chinese research into Quantum entanglement and communications (off topic in the Mosul is liberated thread) an article in Sputnik..
China's first commercial quantum communication network, which experts said may provide a secure communication channel for the government in future, has been successfully tested and will go into service by the end of August.

The quantum network has been tested at Party and government offices in Jinan, East China's Shandong Province, and has passed more than 50 tests since May, China Central Television (CCTV) reported Sunday. The system is capable of encrypting more than 4,000 pieces of data every second....
...The system can only encrypt text currently. Ideally, it will eventually be able to encrypt and transmit audio and video files, Xiang said...

From what I have read in the past, this may be a short range system running on fibre optic cables rather than the current research on transmitting over longer distances via satellite.

Still, world leading at the cutting edge of tech.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 10 2017 8:35 utc | 130

Trump, returning from G20:
"Putin and me talked about a cyber security deal - no more Russian hacking, how's that!"
"Dude, you crazy?"

Posted by: smuks | Jul 10 2017 9:58 utc | 131

I learn that there were 20,000 police deployed in Hamburg. That's not a police force, it's a small army, not much less than the British Army can put into the field !!

Posted by: Stubbs | Jul 10 2017 10:19 utc | 132

132 British army is more than 100.000.

They were not all German, there were Austrian officers, too.

G20 was safe. Everybody was after those dramatic photos of plundered shops, burning cars and barricades. The media, the black block whoever they were, adventure tourists, the police.

Not Angela Merkel or the Mayor of Hamburg, not the demonstrating groups competing for media attention for their issues, but they were not in control.

The police arrested some 400 people. Most of them will have been harmless.

Same dynamic happened in Frankfurt when the new ECB building was opened.
Frankfurt's left to liberal scene had a very central peaceful demonstration going plus events discussing ECB's monetary policies. In the morning before demonstrations started a police car was torched. That was the image that went around the world on what was happening in Frankfurt. There was a - brief, unsuccessful - attempt to block the route to ECB. Otherwise loud fireworks to frighten people off the demonstration.

Vice titled "Frankfurt burns"

I was there, it was not true.

There is no way police whose priority is to protect a huge event can stop small groups from burning cars or raising barricades somewhere in the city producing the images they want.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 10 2017 11:09 utc | 133

J. Rabbit 121, DT holding the position of Prez. is an outcome of many crossed forces. Arguably, he is a figure under control, with little influence (that looks bad internationally and has to be covered up!) and whatever personal opinions / plans / positions he, his ‘team’ (such as is or might be) hold, sincere or not, are hard to dope out / judge.

DT is not part of the US PTB at the top of the heap, as a mob of them are attacking him hourly. If he joined them or was a part of to begin with, or was 100% controlled they would stop - within 6 hours - recall the stellar praise when he sent da missiles to Syria that sorta dented some runways *yes a few ppl were killed.*

What we see is individuation and personification to an Nth degree - one encrusted US ‘Mafia’ controls 70%, or like to think they do, are suddenly (long standing corruption, bad image prop, blatant lies, the self-satisfaction of gross profiteering and mismanagement, members melting away..) challenged by an upstart.

Who was moreover! considered to be the ‘patsy’ opponent, a fool who would serve as a temp. stand-in, a negligible orange-haired fool, a figure of fun, serving to boost Media revenues (as he still does, bigly) to be ‘defeated.’ He turned the tables on them, he will go down in history for that, as in a Punch and Judy writ live with v. high stakes.

Does this make DT a noble guy? A good pres. for US citizens? A man with a view of the future and means to attain it? NO.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 11 2017 19:04 utc | 134

@ somebody 133

Hi. FWIW Brit Army strength is put at just over 72,000.

I think tooth to tail ratio ballparks at approx 1:3, hence 20,000 equals cops on the G20 street.

Some defence reality last year in the FT (google cache)

Posted by: Stubbs | Jul 12 2017 10:59 utc | 135

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