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June 20, 2017
Open Thread 2017-24
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@ 98 jfl
There are several items of poor journalism in your quoted block. Nearly every one dying in a fire die from smoke inhalation wherever they are seeking shelter from the fire e.g. closets, under beds, etc. They die long before the heat gets them. The second misinformation given is about cyanide poisoning, however it is induced. Cyanide acts to block the function of haemoglobin in the blood to carry oxygen to the cells, carbon monoxide does the same job on the blood’s ability to cary oxygen. Although a niggle, this difference is between understanding how the circulatory system works and being ignorant of such knowledge. To find out would have taken so slight an effort as to be unworthy of accountancy, the doGs of Stupidity were well served by what was on offer.
If there were an average of 5 people in each of 120 apartments in the tower that is 600 people resident there. 100 survivors were reported earlier. That is where my estimate of at least 300 deaths and possibly 400 to 500 came from. Amazingly nearly a week later only about 80 deaths are being published. A grand CYA is in progress, for political ends.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 24 2017 15:16 utc | 101
Addendum to 101
‘Red Herring’ is written all over the furore over burning cladding producing cyanide gasses, so do sofas, most non-wool rugs, fabrics and plastics found in the modern environment when set alight. Look instead what ISN’T being spoken of, lack of stairwells protected by fireproof doors, lack of evacuation plans designed for such buildings, lack of fire suppressing sprinkler systems in hallways and more importantly in the apartments themselves. That the local and national governments abdicated their responsibility in not providing such to all residents of such housing is about as criminally negligent as possible to get, and to ignore all recommendation to ameliorate the risk to the public should institute a life sentence for malfeasance in public office. Accept no substitutes. That cladding, not being fire retardant only exacerbated the severity and extent of the fire which is bad enough.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 24 2017 15:34 utc | 102
This just in:
/~~~~~~~~~~
Al Masdar News — Update: Israeli warplanes bomb Syrian forces while Al-Qaeda blitzes their positions — 6/24/17
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/update-israeli-warplanes-bomb-syrian-forces-al-qaeda-blitzes-positions/
BEIRUT, LEBANON (5:30 P.M.) – Minutes ago, Israeli warplanes targeted the Syrian Arab Army’s (SAA) positions in the Golan Heights, inflicting heavy damage on the government defenses near Ba’ath City.
According to a military source in the Golan Heights, the Israeli Air Force destroyed one tank and one shilka after claiming the Syrian military fired a mortar shell into the occupied areas.
The source told Al-Masdar that the Syrian military did not fire any mortar shells or rockets towards the occupied areas of the Golan Heights, adding that it is an excuse the Israeli forces constantly use to justify their attacks.
Following the bombing, the Al-Qaeda linked “Hay’at Tahrir Al-Sham” militants stormed the Syrian Army’s positions, where they are currently engaged in a fierce battle to take control of this region.
\~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by: blues | Jun 24 2017 16:00 utc | 103
@101
The authorities reluctance to use the sophisticated formula to estimate the number of casualties:
Number of victims = Estimated number of residents – Reported number of survivors
Just tells to all of us: It is their fault and they know it.
I bet if some terrorists burned that building, they would already claim the number of victims to be the result of the formula multiplied fudge factor of 2 at least.
Bastards.
Posted by: hopehely | Jun 24 2017 16:04 utc | 104
On the evening of Thursday, June 15, news broke that Serbia would have an openly lesbian prime minister. Immediate reactions from the global LGBT community and Western media would best be described as ecstatic. As the story developed, my Twitter and Facebook feeds were overwhelmed by people congratulating Serbia on the “historic” appointment of Ana Brnabic to the post, a double first for the country — the first woman, and the first openly LGBT prime minister.
Many media outlets also highlighted the fact that just seven years ago, the 2010 Pride parade in Serbia was marred by riots, and that the appointment of Ana Brnabic was indicative of the “progress” the country had made with respect to acceptance and tolerance. ( … ) Indeed, as early as Friday, the European Parliament Intergroup on LGBTI Rights shared the news on its Facebook page with the comment “Wonderful news from Serbia!”
Balkanist Magazine. http://balkanist.net/serbia-new-prime-minister/
Anyway, this is typical of how social issues (here LGTB) are used to completely cover up any / all political and economic issues. Some person like this dame or Obama are just *great* like on a TV show that is even stupider than most TV shows (!) because they have characteristics that others in the past supposedly disaproved of (black, lesbian) and now they Triumph! Supposed to appeal (imho mostly to US audiences but it gets exported) to anyone who feels disadvantaged, which feeling are immediately supposed to be related to their personal looks, color, size, speech, religion, sex orientation, etc. to embrace some kind of victim status, the idea one is ugly, bad, not clever, oppressed. Most are made to experience being an inferior person, defenseless, with only ‘tribal mechanisms’ that can afford them any human contact or success. The ultimate divide-to-rule strategy, where individuals are stripped of any role in a state, nation, any collective power (e.g. Unions, pol parties, votes, etc.), in favor of confused and crossed ‘identity politics’…
Posted by: Noirette | Jun 24 2017 18:53 utc | 105
@102 ftb, “‘Red Herring’ is written all over the furore over burning cladding … Look instead what ISN’T being spoken of, lack of stairwells protected by fireproof doors, lack of evacuation plans designed for such buildings, lack of fire suppressing sprinkler systems in hallways and more importantly in the apartments themselves”
i certainly agree there. the ‘cladding’ was a cosmetic ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of the upscale view of the council housing’s (largely absentee) neighbors … the application of ‘scarce’ public funds to other peoples’ perceived problems, compounded by the fact that the cladding was flammable(!). certainly london has firecodes. certainly they were violated. certainly that is criminal. certainly many more than 79 people died as a result of that crime. certainly the full scope of the crime is now being realized. certainly an attempt is now going to be made to hide the number of people who lost their lives as a result of that crime. there are, apparently, as many as 600 other such towers as grenfell whose real, structural needs have been ignored, covered by such ‘cladding’, waiting to burn and their inhabitants along with them.
Posted by: jfl | Jun 24 2017 23:28 utc | 106
@105 noirette, ‘this is typical of how social issues (here LGTB) are used to completely cover up any / all political and economic issues’
and the googleplex, with the support of the usual suspects, is working on ways to automate the reduction of any attempts to discuss ‘any / all political and economic issues’ as ‘fake news’. working to effect the transition from journalism to the ‘social web’.
Posted by: jfl | Jun 24 2017 23:33 utc | 107
@hopehely 92
“Yes it would, about the same level of resistance as Bucharest and Sofia gave. Meaning, not so much.”
Really? I’d have thought Yugoslavia was still much stronger, more stable…anyway, this point is often cited as a goal of EUropean policy in the 90s. Seemed fairly convincing to me, but…
No, I meant the late 80s/ early 90s, and the question whether foreign (financial) interference played a role in hastening the economic decline already under way. Again, I only picked it up somewhere, no real research or anything…
@jfl 96
“pipeline gas will always be cheaper than lng”
Definitely, and that’s certainly another reason why most states prefer pipelines where possible. But geostrategy trumps economic considerations imo, so any country that really wanted to cut ties with Russia would do it. SCS, it’s not just oil – trade routes will lose their strategic importance when global trade flows are 95% electronic (and most of the rest via train). China won’t keep sending us all that stuff – they’ll sell us a 3D printer and say ‘download & print your own’.
Hydrogen, as in pipelines and fuel cells? Don’t think so…China seems more intent on building a solar economy imo. Excess/ peak production of renewable energy can be used to produce synthetic fuel, be it liquid or gas.
@Noirette 105
It’s amusing how much our politicians & media talk of LGBT rights or gender equality these days.
Not saying these aren’t important topics, but I can’t help the feeling that the glorious promises of ‘freedom, democracy and prosperity’ the “West” once offered just wouldn’t sound very convincing after Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Snowden and the collapse of the financial system in 2007.
So the last thing setting the “free world” apart from the rest seems to be gay rights.
Posted by: smuks | Jun 24 2017 23:50 utc | 108
@108 It also reinforces the notion that the sooner heterosexual white people, especially those with Christian values, are extinct the better.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 0:52 utc | 109
@108 smuks, ‘Hydrogen, as in pipelines and fuel cells?’
no. hydrogen gas is too voluminous. photosynthetic hydrogen stored as hydrides, ‘burned’ back to water in fuel cells. ‘battery’ technology is too expensive. solar-energized-transportation will be ‘fueled’ by hydrogen. geostrategy is too expensive, too. if you have to ask what it costs, you can’t afford it.
Posted by: jfl | Jun 25 2017 1:04 utc | 110
@105
The new Prime Minister is Serbia’s signal of submission to the West. They kissed the hand of their master. Serbia chose, metaphorically speaking, the Kingdom of Earth over the Kingdom of Heaven. We can expect soon recognition of Kosovo and joining NATO.
Posted by: hopehely | Jun 25 2017 1:24 utc | 111
@111 hh, ‘We can expect soon recognition of Kosovo and joining NATO’
Ana Brnabić
An important phase in her CV is the engagement in different US consulting companies that implemented projects in Serbia that were financed by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID).
looks like it …
Posted by: jfl | Jun 25 2017 3:21 utc | 112
To Mike Hasting, victim of WOfT,
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/21/kass-j21.html
Posted by: denk | Jun 25 2017 3:24 utc | 113
How come you guys are all pro Assad and pro Russia? Those guys really suc/. Very poor leadership. You can tell because nobody wants to be like them — they have no soft power.
Posted by: RbtRgs | Jun 25 2017 4:14 utc | 114
“We can expect soon recognition of Kosovo and joining NATO.”
Good.
Posted by: RbtRgs | Jun 25 2017 4:27 utc | 115
“That cladding, not being fire retardant only exacerbated the severity and extent of the fire which is bad enough.”
I was a bit surprised when I spend some time reading on the London fire. Apparently, a building was converted into a crematorium with meticulous attention to detail. The fire started in an ingenious fashion, using an exploding refrigerator. Google search suggests that UK is a leader in refrigerators that explode by themselves. Stories from USA or India that I have found entailed either injection of a wrong type of gas into the compressor (in India), or storing some stuff that creates flammable vapor, which in turn is ignited by a spark from thermostat. Apparently, refrigerators that do not produce any sparks are much more expensive and are used only in laboratories that truly need them. I am not sure if the British market accept more leaky compressors, or more “sparkly” electric systems, but every so often a kitchen is demolished. But in Grenfell tower the door of exploded fridge punch a whole in the outer wall, so the cladding was exposed to the fire.
So the cladding was the second component. Once it was on fire, the fire covered the entire building in minutes. I have witnessed a major fire only once. A department store in my hometown was on fire, and it took perhaps more than an hour to spread to all floors.
But even with the first two components, the fire was mostly outside, and the staircase should provide a sort of fireproof bunker that could be gradually evacuated even if people made a “traffic jam”. But there was actually a posted instruction to stay in apartments, and when people had to leave because their apartments were in flames, it was too late.
A sprinkler system could slow down the fire within apartments and the building public area, allowing to evacuate, delaying the “too late moment”. So I could see four components of the disaster, and perhaps all four were necessary.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 25 2017 4:55 utc | 116
@ Piotr Berman | Jun 25, 2017 12:55:28 AM | 116
In this universe, long ago and far away, I enjoyed the sometimes dubious pleasure of a British vehicle enabled by Lucas mechanisms. After such experiences, one is not likely to be found as enthusiastic supporters of the theory that British Engineering and competency should be used in the same book let alone a paragraph in that book; in a sentence – never. Why does it not surprise to be informed about British refrigerators? or construction policies or public safety policies for that matter. Being somewhat Anglophile has a close relation to the adventures of Wile C. Coyote’s more famous (and copyrighted) younger brother, Wile E. Coyote’s roadrunner exploits. YMMV
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 25 2017 6:34 utc | 117
It would be laughable if it weren’t so tragic that the usual crowd of conspiracy derps who foolishly attribute every success by humanists as a false flag or ‘elite conspiracy’ have now selected the Grenfell Towers slaughter as either a conspiracy in the execution or the coverup or both.
It is especially droll when those who peddle this tosh admonish those who see through the inherent structural flaws of the ongoing amerikan disaster, for being ‘too cynical’.
The fear-inducing omniscience and omnipotence which these baseless theories ascribe to the clumsy, foolish & greed driven actions which typify the (insert name de jour) types who seek to ensure power always rests with the already powerful, occasionally gives pause enough to make more rational types wonder if some of these fear mongering fantasies have been dreamt up by wolves in sheep’s clothing – types working for the insert name here’s indoctrination arm, but that is paranoiac foolishness too.
People raised in an atmosphere of brainwashing in the name of patriotism who do manage to escape some of the propaganda are prime candidates for grasping at such straws which allow them to find a crumb of personal stability by retaining sufficient elements of the lies they were told growing up, yet still criticising the worst of say, amerika’s current criminality, that they can construct a delusional fiction of amerika’s original colonisation.
The best parallel to this is the young jewish amerikans who loudly criticise the actions of contemporary israel while still insisting that jews be entitled to a ‘homeland’ in the Jordan Valley, back a coupla years ago before AJ News was quite so balls to the wall anti-zionist, that news channel featured a coupla documentaries narrated by young amerikan jews. I remember one in particular where the kid appeared much more interested int the intra-familial ructions his stance had created, than the hideous atrocities committed on young Palestinians by the zionist state of hate.
But back to the point of all this; it is extremely likely that more than 100 humans died in Grenfell that awful night, but it isn’t just distracting to peddle bulldust about the fire being an intentional act rather than the inevitable result of cutting funding & “slashing red tape” or that the hesitation on the part of the tories isn’t just another example of the incompetence induced by the soulless lack of duty of care toward the less advantaged, it is some type of efficient cover-up by the omnipotent PTB.
If the tosh being peddled in this thread about the aftermath of Grenfell were to go mainstream in england, the most likely outcome would be a backlash of disbelief against all who are striving to aid Grenfell survivors.
Most englanders are all too aware of the bureaucratic incompetence of the handful of sociopathic yesmen who comprise public housing administration.
Asking brits to believe that the inability to name all the dead is a deliberate strategy crafted in the senior echelons of a Fawlty Towers lookalike is totally fucking ridiculous.
Most of the delay is down to a reality that amerikans with their overly intrusive ICE and incessantly data-gathering alphabet agencies are unfamiliar with.
That is, a huge segment of people actually living in social housing in england are ‘unofficially’ sub-letting the property – sometimes down an extended chain of previous occupants. Other times from a sharpie who picked the apartment up on a ‘rent to buy’ scheme first introduced by Thatcher whereby tenants of social housing can get really favourable terms to purchase their flat – the idea being to transform people from labour voting realists into pseudo-capitalists too stupid to see that their purchase has gained em bugger all other than a ball & chain, so they will vote tory.
Most see through this but they do buy the joint and then sub let it to make a decent earner on the difference between what rent they collect and their mortgage payments. In many cases this scam is all that permits a family to keep its head above water.
Often these sublets are illegal, a breach of their rent to buy agreement – just as for some of those who don’t own their social housing but still sublet it, that is also agin the rules.
As well, those who truly want to maximise returns subletting to so-called ‘illegals’, sometimes entire families who got into england thru some back door and are desperate to stay ‘off the radar’ is a way to jack up the rent. Since those who sublet to illegals may also get into real strife they charge top dollar.
Flats have been passed on as people ascend the ladder of economic desperation. People use false IDs when letting to protect themselves and many who have had experience with english perfidy simply don’t believe the ‘promises’ May & co have made about legal amnesty for Grenfell survivors, lessors & subletters.
The englander bureaucrats simply don’t need to engineer a cover up of the numbers and identity of Grenfell occupants, even if they were sufficiently competent to do so. The dreadful circumstances ‘enjoyed’ by many in social housing has conspired to delay the count itself.
Of course May and the rest of the torybots tried to keep a lid on the huge casualty number initially, as a way to smother the horror by releasing detail in small bursts over the first 24 hours, but that is long past now and put simply the difference in perception of 100 deaths and 200 or 300 deaths isn’t significant enough to justify the risk of a normal, feeling human in the administrative chain becoming so horrified by a cover up, that they expose the rort and create an even bigger scandal.
Trawling through obscure sites whose output is often little more than the delusions created by a never-ending circle of Chinese whispers – web style, may be an entertaining way for fools to waste their time but it can never be construed to be a form of resistance comparable with actually ‘getting out there’ in your local community to assist delivering programs that actually ameliorate the worst excesses of corporate capitalism amerikan style.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 25 2017 7:43 utc | 118
European Union summit agrees to “historic” military build-up
A “Reflection Paper on the future of European Defence,” published by the European Commission on 7 June, states, “Europeans themselves are above all responsible for the improvement of European security. The resources are actually available: taken together, the military spending of the European powers is the second highest in the world […] although cooperation with our partners will remain the norm and the preferred solution for the EU, we should also be able to act alone when necessary.”
Europe’s military build up is therefore being measured against the fighting capabilities of the United States. EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said at a joint press conference with EU Council President Donald Tusk, “The defence fund is necessary. We have in Europe 130 types of weapon systems whereas the US has 30. We have in Europe 17 types of tanks whereas the US has 1. We are spending half of the military budget of the US, but our efficiency is 15 percent… So there is room for improvement, and that is what we have decided today.”
The rapid militarisation of Europe is being pushed above all by the German and French governments. “That is real added value we have agreed upon,” enthused German Chancellor Angela Merkel in response to the defence plan reached in Brussels.
Newly-elected French President Emmanuel Macron described the decisions as “historic.” “For years and years there has not been any progress on defence, there has been one today,” he told reporters. At the same time, he noted the importance of the Paris-Berlin axis for the reorganisation of the EU. “We will work hand in hand with Germany,” he said.
Germany’s defence ministry is working on concrete plans to establish the German army as a “anchor army” for NATO’s European members, whose armies are to be heavily armed and integrated into the command and control structures of Germany. Germany, Romania and the Czech Republic signed cooperation agreements for closer collaboration between their armed forces in February. The Dutch army has already integrated almost two thirds of its units into German army command structures. On Wednesday, the German cabinet sealed an agreement with Norway for the building of new submarines.
tired of getting sand kicked in their faces, the eunuchs are ready to build-up their own mic? dynamic tension. it’ll be deutschland über alles, just like the good ole days? springtime for merkel, micron and germany? winter for nato and the usofa?
Posted by: jfl | Jun 25 2017 12:55 utc | 119
@119 Presumably the French etc. have decided that Germany is no longer a threat. They have been thoroughly shamed by what happened in WW2 and want to make amends. Russians of course will never change.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 13:21 utc | 120
@120 dh,
‘They have been thoroughly shamed by what happened in WW2 …’
the french? pétain? collaboration with germany after the fact?
‘… and want to make amends.’
by collaborating this time before the fact?
‘Russians of course will never change’
will be forced to endure another invasion from europe?
to lose another several tens of millions?
to prevail once again in the end?
sometimes i have difficulty in deciphering your elliptical remarks.
Posted by: jfl | Jun 25 2017 14:03 utc | 121
@121 Sorry about the ellipsis. I’m told I have a curious way of looking at life and it probably gets reflected in the syntax. Take is as tongue in cheek humour if it helps.
In the above example @120 I was trying to suggest that Europeans generally no longer see Germany as wanting to dominate Europe but Russians as we all know (there I go again) never change their evil ways.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 14:27 utc | 122
@122 To avoid further confusion I should add that I am well aware that Russia has only ever attacked Europe in the process of removing unwelcome Teutons.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 14:43 utc | 123
Posted by: dh | Jun 25, 2017 10:27:29 AM | 122
It is much more complex of course. Which Europeans? Greek? Spanish?
Germans or Schäuble? Economically or militarily?
I don’t think anybody in Europe fears German military, not the nuclear powers France and Britain anyway, nor do Britain, the Netherlands, or Scandinavian countries resent Germany economically, but France, Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal might prefer a different EU economic policy and dislike Germany for austerity.
If you believe BBC rankings Russia beats Iran, North Korea, Pakistan and Israel in world wide popularity.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 25 2017 14:59 utc | 124
@124 That’s my impression too more or less. Germans are so much more industrious than others but Russians are seen as much more threatening for some reason.
But you really should be addressing jfl @119. He thinks Deutschland Uber Alles is alive and well.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 15:13 utc | 125
Posted by: dh | Jun 25, 2017 11:13:43 AM | 125
We do think our products are superior. But somehow we have cheated the world to believe the same.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 25 2017 15:19 utc | 126
@125 dh
don’t know that germany’s on the rise … but it certainly looks like it, with ‘help’ from micron of france. and if it were not Deutschland Uber Alles in europe … then who is it? that’s a report from wsws.org, who have been warning of resurgent german militarism for … some years now. as long as i’ve read them. no one else seems to be.
the germans seem content with their economic might, as is china, and haven’t put forward their military capabilities, but this new … Force de frappe, now that micron’s in on it … does seem to be a move in that direction. for years the us never used its mic to its overt purpose, was content with the mic economy, and perhaps that’s what the germans have in mind as well? eventually, though, the mic gets away from you, doesn’t it? and everything is moving pretty quickly these days. accelerating into the vacuum.
Posted by: jfl | Jun 25 2017 15:31 utc | 127
@127 I don’t know anything about German military resurgence. Or what Macron is thinking. It could be that they want to develop the domestic arms industry having seen how successfully that works in the US.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 15:37 utc | 128
127
There is no national arms industry in Europe to speak of see Eurofigher or Airbus or European rockets.
The stuff Germany produces on its own are rifles or tanks
Not really the stuff that gives you a technological edge in a war.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 25 2017 16:50 utc | 129
@129 At the moment. They need to produce more hi-tech stuff….cruise missiles, anti-missiles, drones….that’s where the big bucks are. Of course BAE and Lockheed Martin won’t welcome the competition. Plus the Saudis have probably covered the big contracts already.
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 17:59 utc | 130
Posted by: dh | Jun 25, 2017 1:59:23 PM | 130
Germany needs to shrink it export surplus not enlarge it.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 25 2017 18:05 utc | 131
@130 Who says? I’m talking about weapons anyway. Right now Europe buys US weapons via NATO. Germany could grab some of that market. How else are you going to keep all those refugees employed?
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 18:22 utc | 132
Bana Alabed Interview: Bana did not read Harry Potter in Aleppo http://blauerbote.com/2017/06/25/bana-alabed-interview-bana-did-not-read-harry-potter-in-aleppo/
@131 This article relates to what you’re saying. Seems Germany does OK with arms exports. But I’m not sure why they want to cut back. Moral qualms?
http://www.dw.com/en/weapons-go-to-conflict-zones-the-money-comes-to-germany/a-18798104
Posted by: dh | Jun 25 2017 18:56 utc | 134
134
Small arms exports. They are especially vicious. From your link
In other words, countries in the Middle East, South America, Africa and East Asia that are either involved in conflicts or have problematic human rights records have been splurging on German rifles, handguns and other handheld weapons. In the first half of this year, Germany sold guns or ammunition to Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, Mali, Chile, India, Indonesia and the United Arab Emirates (among others). That’s apart from the military vehicles, ships, and other larger military equipment sold to Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Russia, China and Israel – all of which are involved in conflicts or have widely reported human rights abuses.
Social Democrats – Gabriel’s voters – tend to be decent people who know history and hate war. So Gabriel has to lie if he does not wish to annoy companies like Mauser or Heckler & Koch.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 25 2017 19:18 utc | 135
Germany has a serious trade surplus problem.
IMF says Germany must act now to reduce trade surplus
So it’s either to curb or invest in Europe.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 25 2017 19:23 utc | 136
MFA of the DPR and delegation from France signed protocol on cooperation
The protocol was signed by the acting Foreign Affairs Minister Nataliya Nikonorova and the president of the Center of entrepreneurs Zheral Hubert Fayyar.
i hope nataliya counted her fingers after shaking hands with ‘the president of the Center of entrepreneurs’.
this does seem consistent – as does a reluctance to war with iran – with a bankster president in france. attempted larceny is better than war. if it doesn’t work out you can always war later.
Posted by: jfl | Jun 26 2017 13:10 utc | 137
@jfl 110, somebody, dh
Hmm…I doubt it. Hydrogen is too impractical, and battery prices should fall dramatically over the next 10 years. No point arguing though, let’s just see who’s right in 2027…;-)
Armies are horribly expensive & unproductive, but for some reason states have them. And has anybody ever asked about the costs when it comes to (geo)strategic aims? Not that I knew of, because a successful strategy always pays off one way or the other.
Interesting that you’re discussing German militarism & MIC…
Apart from rifles, tanks and subs, seems that German electronics e.g. for SAM has a “decent” reputation. But that’s oldschool – no idea about more modern stuff like electronic, cyber or psychological warfare.
I’m glad that for all its resurgence, Germany’s military budget is still quite limited (1,2% GDP), and increasing it is very unpopular though there’s talk. Who needs military might, if you supply machinery and credit to half the world, and your cars are some of the best ‘soft power’ ambassadors on the planet…
Posted by: smuks | Jun 26 2017 23:27 utc | 138