Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 20, 2017

Open Thread 2017-24

News & views ...

Posted by b on June 20, 2017 at 16:55 UTC | Permalink

next page »

(This is a repost of a previous reply).

- This link

brought the following links

- this news is not new:

But then it had also these links: And Iran is the "usual suspect" again. Seems the media in the US is already launching a new campaign against Iran tp prepare the folks in the US for new hostilities/war against Iran

Posted by: Willy2 | Jun 20 2017 17:08 utc | 2

Who ordered the hit on Seth Rich?

Posted by: JC | Jun 20 2017 17:17 utc | 3

Mad dog Mattis keep provoking Russia, now in the Baltic sea:

RT - " US spy plane carried out ‘provocative turn’ toward Russian fighter jet over Baltic – Moscow "

Posted by: Anon | Jun 20 2017 17:43 utc | 4

There is no shortage of tiresome Neocons but Lt. Col, Ralph Peterson wrote a particularly vile piece for the NY Post

" a Syrian aircraft struck our allies. An American jet shot it down."

[^ not especially vile but even the Pentagon's own press release said that the Syrian aircraft was bombing NEAR SDF forces. So he is lying even if you just use Pentagon sources. ^]

"In reality, Bashar al-Assad and his backers cynically dumped the burden of wrecking ISIS on us and our local allies to concentrate on slaughtering civilians, exterminating freedom fighters and torturing thousands of prisoners to death. Now that we’ve done the anti-ISIS heavy lifting, they want to exclude us from the endgame and crush our Kurdish and Arab allies."
[^ Now this IS truly vile ^]

The NY Post is one of the cowardly who don't allow comments, I'll at least give the National Review and FOX credit for allowing online comments. I don't know if they ever read them, it doesn't look like it. Is there an infinite amount of demand for Neocon drivel? I only saw this because I see articles linked through which occasionally has some articles of value along with the sewage.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jun 20 2017 17:48 utc | 5

Anon - I just read that it was the Russians who did the provocative moves against the American spy plane. Ha ha. I wonder what the truth is. The Russian fighters would be more manoeuvrable so I think it would be them who would be teasing the American plane, much like sparrows have their way with a bigger bird.

Posted by: mischi | Jun 20 2017 17:54 utc | 6

On the subject of anti-Assad freedom fighters, has anyone ever found a list of these CIA vetted groups from a U.S. govt source, like the State Dept, Pentagon, CIA, etc?

Now I have found lists from secondary publications, like bloomberg, or from rebel groups themselves who claim to be on this list but I find it interesting that our govt doesn't see fit to make this public. If we are so proud of these guys that we are constantly crying about their fate then why haven't we formerly identified them? If they claim it is for security reasons, that is not convincing because we have long identified the Kurds and even named them the SDF.

It is possible that I simply have not found it. If anyone can find a government source that lists these CIA vetted groups, from any point in time, then by all means, please post a link.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jun 20 2017 18:16 utc | 7


Yes of course Russians are the provoking the US in.... the Baltic sea!. Facepalm.
The western media is so deep in its own lies and disinformation its disgusting.

Posted by: Anon | Jun 20 2017 18:17 utc | 8

@ 3 The people who would't like us to know the answer to your question.

Posted by: Quentin | Jun 20 2017 18:18 utc | 9

a quick reminder, a reality check... the utter stupidity, the illegality of it all.

but even talking about that only raises yawns in DC and the West, though Australia has been smart enough to stop flying in the coalition of the bribed and the bludgeoned in Syria this week

.....No one in Washington will care, but it is worth remembering that the U.S. has no authority to be engaged in hostilities anywhere in Syria, and our government certainly has no authority to attack Syrian government forces operating inside their own country in support for anti-regime insurgents. Obama had no right to expand the war on ISIS into Syria, and Trump has no right to involve us in a war with the Syrian government. Our Syria policy is unwise and divorced from U.S. security interests, and it is also illegal.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 20 2017 18:26 utc | 10

ny post.. bought and paid for by zion idiots... not worth the cost for firestarter... humour maybe, lol..

john helmer has another post up here on the freak freeland for any canucks reading here... new info from poland shows her grandfathers connections to nazi germany and how they were looking for him into the 80's... canuck gov't and media response? silence so far...

Posted by: james | Jun 20 2017 19:42 utc | 11

@Anon at #8
The western media is mostly silent about this: China, Russia To Hold Joint Military Drills In Baltic Sea After Trump Visit Wonder if there will be more reporting.

Posted by: Fran | Jun 20 2017 19:49 utc | 12

Tension with N Korea makes it more difficult and risky for US to launch wider war in mideast. Should Kim get a peace prize?

Posted by: Ace Hanlon | Jun 20 2017 21:29 utc | 13

US questions Saudi concerns over Qatar’s alleged support for terrorism

"Now that it has been more than two weeks since the embargo started we are mystified that the Gulf states have not released to the Qataris nor to the public the details about the claims they are making toward Qatar," she [State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert] said.

"At this point we are left with one simple question: Were the actions really about their concerns regarding Qatar's alleged support for terrorism? Or were they about the long-simmering grievances between and among the (P)GCC [Persian Gulf Cooperation Council] countries?"

'alleged' qatari support for terrorism? ... ? the state department is as confused as everyone else is about the rump's 'plan' for the pgcc?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 20 2017 23:07 utc | 14

Qatar expels Yemen embassy mission in Doha

they didn't expel any yemeni mission, they expelled the saudi-stooges posing as a yemeni mission. once they're gone a bona fide yemeni mission will be set up in qatar?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 20 2017 23:15 utc | 15

Christian Chuba 5
Wow. It looks like this is the same Lt. Col. Ralph Peters who redrew the map of the middle east. (Redrawing the borders may have made sense but that was a long time ago.) In NY Post article, he proved he's as shameless as ever. Iran is manipulating Russia? Who is manipulating the US? And Assad dumped the ISIS fight onto the US? Massive denial of reality there. And his big complaint is that the US might miss the "endgame." Such is the arrogance of those in power.

Posted by: Curtis | Jun 20 2017 23:16 utc | 16

More Details Appear About US Attack Against Syrian Su-22

Ali Fahd’s mission was to strike ISIS fighters and vehicles attempting to withdrew from Rusafah in the province of Raqqah towards Sukhnah in the province of Homs and Oqerbat in the eastern Hama countryside – near Ali Fahd’s home town of Salamyiah. Connection with Ali Fahd was lost after reaching the operation area over Rusafah.

SF was not able to receive info if Ali Fahd preformed any airstrike against ISIS before being hit. As connection was jammed it may mean Ali Fahd’s warplane was downed even before dropping a single bomb. This supports the version provided by the Syrian government and the pro-opposition Syrian Observatory for Human Rights that said Ali Fahd’s Su-22M4 never attacked positions of the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).

According to Ali Fahd’s relative Al-Masdar News reporter, Majd Fahed, Ali Fahd was captured by the SDF and Tiger Forces Leader General Suheil Al-Hassan is negotiating with SDF in order to free Ali Fahd.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 20 2017 23:25 utc | 17

Christian Chuba 7
I was wondering about that, too. Did the US break relations with some of the groups? According to one article someone posted recently the US shot down the plane because it went after one of the coalition and the US claimed the coalition does not want to fight Syrian forces. If this is true who are the new members of the coalition and what happened to the rest?

Posted by: Curtis | Jun 20 2017 23:28 utc | 18

The Saker writes controversial essays at times, but also some that are thought provoking. His latest about Russia and Islam falls into the latter category provided you steer clear of the religious debate in the comments. The points he made I found most interesting was tallying the Muslim share of the SCO and proposing Eurasian integration offers humanity a new civilizational model.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 20 2017 23:31 utc | 19

@16 curtis

always like to link peters' plans for the me. more than a decade old now. kids with crayons.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 20 2017 23:59 utc | 20

@19 karlof

Russia and Islam, connecting the dots and discerning the future

Russia has successfully convinced two very powerful potential competitors (Iran and Turkey) to work together and now this informal alliance is in a very strong position to influence the events in the Caucasus and Central Asia. At this point it is already clear that what we are seeing is a long term process and long term strategic goal of Russia: to become directly involved in the struggle for the future of Islam.

also note that, along with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cambodia, Nepal, and Sri Lanka, Turkey is one of 6 dialogue partners of the SCO. as the EU/NATO become icier and icier i imagine that the SCO will look warmer and warmer to Turkey, and the others.


muslim population | country
    9,000,000 Azerbaijan
  40,000,000 China
180,000,000 India
  75,000,000 Iran
    9,000,000 Kazakhstan
    5,000,000 Kyrgyzstan
195,000,000 Pakistan
  10,000,000 Russia
    6,000,000 Tajikistan
  79,000,000 Turkey
  26,000,000 Uzbekistan
634,000,000 SCO prosepective total

turkey and iran may be potential competitors ... pakistan and india are potential enemies. taming that nuclear rivalry would be a world service indeed. as weel, if anything positive comes out of the korean 'rivalry' it will be due to SCO member states, certainly not to do with the US and its train of vassal EUnuchs.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 21 2017 0:47 utc | 21

@jfl | Jun 20, 2017 7:25:08 PM | 17

It seems to me the only this guy has this information about the Syrian pilot.

Al-Masdar do not have it.

Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jun 21 2017 1:12 utc | 22

Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro on Saturday said Twitter was an "expression of fascism"

Yep, so true

Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jun 21 2017 1:18 utc | 23

nmb @ 1 Thanks for the link..

A glance at the people who influence policies around the globe..

"International rating agencies, closely monitoring the situation in the UK, have warned the country’s creditworthiness faces a downgrade after the Conservative Party’s failure to win a majority in Thursday’s general election."

globinfo freexchange

"The sentence above describes perfectly the true nature of the so-called 'invisible' markets that supposedly act independently. The global financial mafia is focused on the UK for the moment because of the unexpected rise of Jeremy Corbyn. The Socialist 'threat' hangs above one of the key financial centers of the planet and the elites have one more serious reason to remain in alarm mode."

Posted by: ben | Jun 21 2017 1:29 utc | 24

@22 cg

well, it's all a question of who (you want) to believe, at this point. i want to believe this guy ... but where's ali? that's the same picture of him that everyone shows. in the abscence of ali himself, i think it's more likely that the sdf/us have him. i hope it's the sdf and that they take the opportunity to straighten things out with the syrian government ... but i fear it's the usofa that has ali ... they seem to have taken hands-on charge of their 'kurd operation' in syriaq ... and perhaps in iran ... and turkey, as well.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 21 2017 1:43 utc | 25


so who are the terrorists on point in lebanon, syria, iraq, iran, and turkey now? the kurds? the saudis new best friends? the continuously used-, instrumentalized-, and betrayed-by-the-usofa kurds? has the usofa lapped both ksa, and qatar as terrorist funder/trainer/maintainer and godfather in the middle east? they always have been the drive wheel there, of course, due to their 'exceptional' status. the israelis, as well, are a part of the 'us-terrorist-coalition'. goes without saying.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 21 2017 1:49 utc | 26

@11 Your link to James Helmer does not seem to work, nor does his web site for that matter. Freeland's background is well worth reporting on.

Posted by: mls | Jun 21 2017 2:24 utc | 27

Until these so-called drones develop sophisticated AI planning missions on their own to kill all humans once "Judgement Day 2" arrives I will not read the labels on these seek and destroy push button drones.

Posted by: 4Threcord | Jun 21 2017 3:16 utc | 28

Venezuela, Haiti, Cuba...
So far from god, so near to the great satan.

BUt distance doesnt offer safety either.
washington's tenacles are ubiquitous,
Philippines has been raped for centuries ,
just when a prez who wants to shake off the shackle appears,
ISIS [tm] pops up like clockwork,
hey presto, murkkan 'advisors' back in business !
Can Ph ever escape from unitedsnake's death grip ?

Posted by: denk | Jun 21 2017 5:10 utc | 29

Chuba @5, Curtis @16: indeed, if you have "Fox News Strategic Analyst" writing for NY Post (NY Times pretends to think, NY Post operates under the principle that thinking is for sissies), expect deep and wide perspective.

To those who had their fill of toxic fumes already I will describe how hilarious the graphical part of the analytic article is. On the right you can see recent front pages of NY Post with their trademark 10 cm high letters. In the bottom row two titles next to each other: "Doctor cut off my breast by mistake", "I NEEDED ONLY ONE", "DRIVEN TO DEATH". Anyway, Peters invokes "History 101". Apparently, Syrian Desert was and is ultra-important! "We’re latecomers, just passing through, preceded by Egyptians, Assyrians, Persians, Alexander the Great, Romans, Arabs suddenly aflame with Islam, Crusaders (who came up short at Damascus), Mongols, Seljuk and Ottoman Turks. Those caravan “superhighways” are as strategically vital now as ever they were.".

Peters could add that not every imperial army made it to the other side of the desert, and not every army returned from its battles. But who needs that if "our interest" is merely fleeting, "just passing through". Is it just to see monuments of the past and ponder the futile vanity, to experience "Ozymandias" in its true environment, desolation and grandeur? This is not a question to be pondered by a military man. Peters succintly lays out "our case":

We cannot let the Russians dictate where we fly and whom we can protect. We’ve gone out of our way to avoid confrontations with Putin’s war criminals, but there’s a limit. And we may be about to reach it.

This situation could become President Trump’s own Cuban Missile Crisis: If the Russians pull the trigger, will our president stand up to Putin?

Putin may be betting that he won’t.

NY Post did not allowed comments, and above I pasted NYT comments. And the most striking thing is that citizens who take as the truth all the media narrative, Assad is a monster and all the blah blah, but nevertheless think, cannot figure out why we need to insist on "just passing through", something that we do for 16 years in Afghanistan, and "whom we want to protect". We Americans fight against tyranny, terrorism and triviality. An objection that some tyrants fight terrorism too is exactly the type of triviality that we do not like. But as the sands are shifting and the mirages appear and disappear, the lists of tyrants and terrorist change too. Consistency is a trivial hobgoblin of small minds. Peters mentioned "freedom fighters", I can only guess that he means those Assad opponents who are not currently on American lists of "bad organizations". Going from evil to goodness and back is as effortless as changing countries in my ancestral part of Europe, say Austro-Hungarian Empire, Czechoslovakia, Soviet Ukraine, (regency of) Hungary, Soviet Ukraine again, independent Ukraine, truly independent Ukraine, and who knows what in the future. But there all those changes took a century, and it would take a lot of work to determine when and where al-Qaeda was classified among devils and among angels during its much shorter existence. As you see, I am raising trivial objections, and thus our fight has to include the entire triad: tyranny, terrorists and triviality.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 21 2017 5:39 utc | 30

Solstice Day!

If the sun dims today, anywhere across your country, take it as a mark of heavenly disfavour of what you do, what you have become - change your ways, repent or perish.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 21 2017 6:04 utc | 31

Here we go again:

RT: "Iran slams ‘brazen interventionist plan’ after Tillerson’s call for regime change"

Posted by: Anon | Jun 21 2017 6:05 utc | 32

Guardian Logic

Can anyone anyone!!! explain WTF this means?

Georgia special election: Republican Karen Handel beats Jon Ossoff in runoff

An energized Republican base kept Ossoff from accumulating a significant lead among early voters and doomed the hopes of the anti-Trump activists

Ben Jacobs in Sandy Springs, Georgia
Wednesday 21 June 2017 12.17 AEST Last modified on Wednesday 21 June 2017 13.38 AEST

Democrats fell short of a special election victory yet again on Tuesday when Jon Ossoff, long the best hope of Democrats to win a special election in the Trump administration, suffered a narrow loss to Republican Karen Handel in the Sixth Congressional District.

The race was the latest in a series of special elections in Republican seats where Democrats managed to deliver moral victories – rather than actual victories – as they proved unable to notch a major electoral win in the Trump administration.

With 100% of precincts reporting, Handel had 52.7% and Ossoff had 47.3%.

Anyone know what this so-called Moral Victory was exactly?

Posted by: Julian | Jun 21 2017 6:35 utc | 33

Highly Graphic Video:White Helmets Film Themselves Participating in Beheading of Syrian Soldiers

#Whitehelmets Pt 1 Beheaded soliders in truck. Note broken rear window, center brake light, broken left tail light.

The truth about the White Helmets continues to come out. If you can stomach watching it then you can see who Netflix promotes, Hollywood gave an Oscar to and who 60 Minutes/Scott Pelley just did a segment on. This is the real White Helmets in action.

Massive White Helmets Photo Cache Proves Hollywood Gave Oscar to Terrorist Group

Direct Terrorist Collusion: Over One Dozen Videos Capture White Helmets Working Side-By-Side With Terrorist Groups in Syria

Live Leak link to associated video:

Truckload of Beheaded Syrian Soldiers Transported By White Helmet Associated Terrorists

Posted by: Liam | Jun 21 2017 6:48 utc | 34

The great divide ===========>the elected side ==vs=====> the governed side..

=>use of government =========>Increase wealth ==========>Serve the wealthy/>
=>global awareness ==========>increasing ===============>decreasing
=>Propaganda ==============>producer ================>consumer
>cultural ==================>offender =================>defender
=>morality =================>none ====================>some
=>Economy ================>Provider =================>consumer
=>object of economy =========>Higher price, Lower wage =>Lower cost, Higher wage
=>wars ===================>Directors/protected =======>Actors/in harms way

Posted by: gukkakajh | Jun 21 2017 7:33 utc | 36

Julian @33: moral victory in Georgia

The idea was that since Trump is relatively unpopular, a properly moderate and properly funded Democratic candidate should be able to win even in a so-called safe Republican district. Ossoff was very, very moderate (a DINO?) and very, very well funded. And it almost worked. Ossoff was an opponent of a GOP "reform" of Obama-care but an opponent of single payer. GOP claims that Obama-care cannot work, and it has some traction, because, well, it cannot. And the truthful argument that GOP pseudo-ideas are EVEN WORSE is hard to explain, and, lets face it, uninspiring. "Why not avoid even worse" ?? (Jimmy Carter had a slogan "why not the best" when he run for President). Then Ossoff was supposed to capitalize on Trump's unpopularity without mentioning Trump. Like Theresa May had a spiffy plan to run on personality, and nobody told her that she has none.

If you ask me, Democratic party is cursed with too many people who have too much money to spend, and who believe that a properly moderate and properly funded campaigns will do the trick. I must say that I do view them as a lesser evil, and I gave some money in the past to this fund or that. So I got swamped with phone calls from all of them, and invariably it is some great opportunity because some rich donor "today is matching individual donations 2 to 1 up to 300 dollars." In other words, rich liberals. Fine, fine folks, but their perspective is waay off. NYT is written by such people and for such people, so it is my source of knowledge about this mentality. I will give example in the next post.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 21 2017 8:14 utc | 37

Example of privileged liberal mentality. In May 2013, David Silva disturbed the peace and broke the law in Bakersfield, California, by sleeping on a public sidewalk. Ever vigilant police of Kern County caught him in the act, and the patrol called for backup. Backup included a police dog. If I understand, after sufficient force was assembled, they sent the dog first, and Silva woke up, but rather then being cooperative, he punched the adorable German shepherd. He also did not respond to verbal command to complete satisfaction of the large crowd of police troopers that gathered for the occasion, so they proceeded to beat him with batons. After few minutes someone noticed that he stopped breathing, so they took him to the hospital (Silva actually wanted to go to that hospital as he was drunk and depressed, but was refused help, and ended up sleeping next to the county hospital.) And the hospital confirmed the diagnosis, namely, that he is breathing no more.

The most disturbing element of the story for NYT was that police confiscated phones of the witnesses. That was not nice, but I was most disturbed by totally gratuitous beating of a person to death. The second disturbing element was how corrupt the law enforcement was. Coroner declared that the death was accidental, because [he used a fancy word for hypertension] and excess weight "caused the death". However, if that would be a "cause of death", USA would be depopulated, critical reading would be that a healthier person would survive, but, of course, district attorney (prosecutor in USA) immediately closed the case. But for people who are not authorized by the state to kill and torture, the standard that a sufficiently robust person would survive would at best reduce charges from murder to homicide and aggravated battery. Obama's Department of Justice reviewed the case and decided that it is OK.

The British have lesser tolerance for brutality, so The Guardian had a big story on Kern County police department, the most lethal one in USA: average 10 killed persons per year, compared to 1-2 in the entire UK (one million population). But in USA police and prison brutality is actually popular, and to middle and upper classes, this is ordinarily a non-issue.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 21 2017 8:46 utc | 38

Re: Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 21, 2017 4:14:25 AM | 37

Cheers Piotr - I expected it was something like that.

By the way - this Russian suspension of the de-confliction line will be rescinded in about 2 weeks.


Putin and Trump will finally meet - that's why.

So don't expect any Russian actions, or even potent re-actions, before then.

Why prejudice that meeting? They won't.

July 7/8, 2017.

This will be very interesting. I wonder if Putin will advise Trump to "nix" the latest IMF deal on Greece and stop throwing good money after bad into the Greek debt black-hole.

It is my understanding that Ms. Lagarde is recommending to the IMF Board that the IMF should jump into the latest Greek bailout.

Of course, if the US decides it doesn't want the IMF to do that - the US blocking stake (16% or so) means the IMF won't do that. (IMF needs 85% approval for these sort of things).

It would certainly be a way to administer a huge slap in the face to Merkel in her own country!

Of course Syria & Ukraine would be top of the agenda one suspects - but a Greek backhander would be great to see!

I certainly don't see Russia (or their allies Syria/Iran) responding in any way to any provocations before this G20 Summit.

i just hope Putin delivers Trump some worthwhile advice - ie, who to fire immediately! Hello - that rat Andy McCabe for starters! And Trump listens (no guarantee of that of course).

Anyway, this summit will be very interesting. Can't wait.

Posted by: Jules | Jun 21 2017 9:03 utc | 39

Re: Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jun 20, 2017 2:16:51 PM | 7

FYI (a bit of a bugbear of mine). "Formerly" ie, in the past, "Formally" - ie, in a 'formal' way, by the book etc. - i think it is the latter that you were after rather than the former?

Posted by: Jules | Jun 21 2017 9:27 utc | 40

There's no way out now, King Salman has assholed his nephew the official next in line prince of Saudi from the job of Crown Prince and given the gig to his son Mohammed bin Salman, the derp who has been masterminding Yemen's bombing, the fuck-up in Syria and the blue with Qatar.
This appears to be the trumpet's first big earner since traditionally amerika picks the king (it used to be USuk back in the day when the joint was run by the AngloAmerican Oil company, but that got split up into pieces the largest ones being Rockerfeller's Standard Oil (later ExxonMobil) and the englander version BP; somehow along the way (not unconnected with WW2 payment of bills & amerika's seizure of many englander colonial assets), the selection of chief saudi puppet is pretty much entirely down to the amerikan state department.
You'll note that the article linked to above points out that the now former crown prince was frozen outta the scene when the trumpet visited saudi last month.

The englanders seem pissed about the change as I imagine are those careerist elements of state who devoted so much effort to indoctrinating Mohammed bin Nayef.
Now they're stuck with an incompetent looney toons god botherer who doesn't appear to grasp that his role is to do as he's fucking well told. Still I suppose Tillerson set the thing up in return for a better oil price. The trumpet being the trumpet you'd have to wonder how many cash registers he got his clammy paws into.

There would have been a good earn from MobilExxon for 'nominating' Tillerson in the first place then there is the charge for agreeing to the crown prince swap. Salman the elder would have settled billions not millions onto TrumpCorp for that and then trumpet demanding a % of the increased profit by MobilExxon will be the biggest long term stream.

If it were an amerikan soap the 'real reason' would have been that Mohammed bin Salman's mother gave the best bj's but I doubt that would carry much weight around the Saudi court where money appears to be the only thing anyone gets passionate about.

On the bright side saudi being run by such nincompoops blinded by greed means that things are going to get really chaotic and the state will quickly become ungovernable - not to mention that these intra familial contretemps rarely end just because one side has everything they wanted so don't wanna blue anymore.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 21 2017 10:22 utc | 41

this is such bad news - same war policies and crimes against poor Yemen, same/more funnding of jihadists in syria, and more antagonism towards both Iran and qatar.

he makes a visit and helps blow the entire region apart. way to go trump!

Saudi Arabia’s Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has replaced his cousin as heir to the throne in an abrupt shakeup that consolidates the 31-year-old leader’s growing power in the world’s biggest oil exporter.....It also suggests a harder foreign policy line for the key U.S. ally in the region. The new crown prince has led the war in effort in Yemen against Iran-backed rebels and was a key figure in isolating Qatar.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 21 2017 10:39 utc | 42

US keep provoking, just now according to the news:

" Russian Su-27 warns off NATO F-16 trying to approach defense minister’s plane over Baltic "

Posted by: Anon | Jun 21 2017 12:11 utc | 43

Thierry Meyssan has some analysis wrt

"Adjustements in the Middle East"

Posted by: crone | Jun 21 2017 13:31 utc | 44

Going by the reports that Turkey is preparing some sort of offensive against the Kurds, it looks as though Russia's return move after the US shooting down the Syrian jet has been to let Erdogan off the leash.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jun 21 2017 14:41 utc | 45

@ 45 Peter AU

Wonder how soon Incerlik AB will be closed down for 'health' inspections. That ought to give those aircraft carrier c**ts something to do constructively. Oh, that's right, they are targets now. Maybe the dodgy Generals of Central Command can find a way around that little mess, like an invisible cloaking devise, after all, "Star Trek" had them, years ago. (/sarcasm)

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 21 2017 15:05 utc | 46

On the subject of anti-Assad freedom fighters, has anyone ever found a list of these CIA vetted groups..? Christian @ 7.

Been wondering as well.

Some basics: Business Insider article (2015), lists re Syria

42 groups who were ‘vetted’ (ie. positively.)

Random for flavor: 13th Division (Forqat 13) —101st Division Infantry (Forqat 101 Masha’a) — Knights of Justice Brigade (Liwa’ Fursan al-Haqq)— Falcons of the Mountain Brigade (Liwa’ Suqour al-Jabal)—-Mujahideen Army/Army of Holy Warriors (Jaish al-Mujahideen)—-Yarmouk Army….etc. etc.

Another version of list (more ample description, 2015, have a look):

A CIA guy, in Newsweek : “Vetting is a word we throw a lot around a lot, but actually very few people know what it really means …

What normally happens is that a case officer will identify a source who is a leader in one of the Free Syrian Army groups. And he’ll say, ‘Hey...can you come up with 200 [guys] you can trust?’ And of course they say yes—they always say yes. So Ahmed brings you a list and the details you need to do the traces,” the CIA’s word for background checks. “So you’re taking that guy’s word on the people he’s recruited. So we rely on a source whom we’ve done traces on to do the recruiting.”

Other: “Syria is a vetting nightmare,” he told Newsweek, “with no way to discern the loyalties of not only those being vetted but also of those bringing the people to our attention.”

An official list isn't possible. The whole idea of 'groups’ who support some ‘ideology’, some ‘party’, some ‘leader / master’, who will follow some ‘strategy’, ‘principles’, is not applicable.

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 21 2017 15:28 utc | 47

@27 mls.. hey, it was working when i posted it.. john helmer has 2 website and i will check.. it is working for me at present..

here it is again..

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2017 15:30 utc | 48

Pepe Escobar's been busy with two essays, and

The Saker has posted a translated report dealing with a recent Russian Security Council meeting:

"Today at the working meeting of the Russian Security Counsel the Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu reported to the Commander-in-Chief that the Russian Air Force in Syria liquidated more than 30 field commanders of the terrorist organization ISIS, likely including its leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi."

The link to the original Russian article contains visuals and additional links omitted in the current translation,

What's reported as Russia's take on the Outlaw US Empire's strategy is intriguing, attempting to explain Daesh's move of its "capital" to Al-Mayadin.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2017 15:35 utc | 49

elijah jm has a new article up Syrian Kurds will be the biggest losers: America and Russia on the verge of the abyss in Syria ..

i agree with most of his article.. kurds will be the losers in all of this.. poor choice siding up with the usa/israel/ksa...

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2017 16:08 utc | 50

@ 45 Peter AU

It's the YPG area in northern Aleppo only. This area doesn't even border Kurdish areas in Turkey so in essence the excuse Turkey is using is bogus, then again the only thing emenating from Syria's enemies have been lies from the start. In the US controlled part in north eastern Syria, Turkey doesn't dare to tread (yet). Turkey's objective is probably completely eradicating YPG control over northern Aleppo. Highly doubtful US will counter Turkey with air force. One can hope it will cost both Turkey as invaders greased by Qatari money and YPG as traitors greased by Saoudi money, dearly.

Posted by: xor | Jun 21 2017 18:48 utc | 52

xor 52

Kurds have announced their intention of taking Deir Ezzor for the US after Raqqa. Doesn't give much reason for Russia to have personal between the Afrin Kurds and the Turks, nor to restrain Turkey diplomatically.
Same thing happened earlier when the Kurds become over confident about Rojava and started attacking SAA forces.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jun 21 2017 19:05 utc | 53

Glenfell;It falls like 9-11?

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 21 2017 19:11 utc | 54

Highly Graphic Video’s: White Helmets Film Themselves Participating in Beheading’s of Syrian Soldiers

Posted by: Liam | Jun 21 2017 19:36 utc | 55

@48 James, thank you for re-posting the link. Both seem to work now. The new documentation on Freeland's grandfather is very interesting and should be addressed by the Minister.

Posted by: mls | Jun 21 2017 22:14 utc | 56


Trump ... is so far at sea his advisors hold security meetings without him.

have no idea how Ziad Fadel 'knows' that ... but it's not unbelievable.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 21 2017 23:59 utc | 57

Re: Posted by: Peter AU | Jun 21, 2017 3:05:58 PM | 53

Kurds have announced their intention of taking Deir Ezzor for the US after Raqqa. Doesn't give much reason for Russia to have personal between the Afrin Kurds and the Turks, nor to restrain Turkey diplomatically.

Have they now? When did they do that?

What are the Russians doing in Afrin anyway? It's always seemed pointless considering what the SDF is doing.

Posted by: Julian | Jun 22 2017 3:04 utc | 58

I'd like to take an opportunity to blame all of the grannies for most of the problems of society, but not of the world.I realise it isn't politically correck, but it is the corner I've painted myself into. They , the Granny Mafia, deserve a double standard. My premise based on mammals being matricentric (think wet pussy, with mitochondrial uberdames you don't see) seeking resources to control, with males for environmental inputs and the ability to take the heat. We now have a post-scarcity world where distribution is the biggest problem and property rights, inheritance and it's status from a buck-toothed myope mouth-breather from inside the castle (gated community) no longer offers the security that having children from around the world, and then having the best the wider world offers. Momma's don't let yer chillin grew up to be cowboys. Shame. So Sad, losers. Give your DNA a rest for a few generations.Kirk out.

Posted by: failure of imagination | Jun 22 2017 5:34 utc | 59

@56 mls... the canadian media and independent media have gone silent on this. the jewish folks have too.. it is very weird why no one is following up on this story.. i have had some e mails with john helmer and have tried to engage cbc and globe and mail journalists.. none of them want to go near this for fear of being called a kremlin troll or something.. i can't figure it out.. at this point, i think some publication in the usa is going to have to talk about it, to get the canuck msm involved...

Posted by: james | Jun 22 2017 6:05 utc | 60

The Georgia and South Carolina election results are not due to Trump's popularity. They're the result of the Democrats stupidity in pushing memes. And jewish candidates. Political big money is Zionist and Neocon in LA, NY, DC and other wealthy enclaves. Both sides. They paid handsomely to shoe-horn a 30-something jewish Macron-lite down the throats of Georgians. He didn't even live in the gawddamn district. Southerners haven't forgotten what carpetbaggers did to their ancestors. Democrats take-away is "we can't win in these districts". Bullshit. They can win if they run someone who actually REFLECTS the district they'll represent.

In South Carolina 5th the vote was much closer with significantly less money. There were two white males running. Both non-jewish. With more money from those asshats at the DNC -- who seem to only wanna murder leakers or fund jewih candidates -- Parnell might have won. His biggest drawback was he worked at Goldman.

Lots of Trump voters did so for the same reasons one slaps an old TV when it doesn't work right. Most of us lost our illusions years ago. Jews will not win these elections. Doesn't matter if they're D or R. I vote for whomever isn't Tribe. It's that simple. I'm not alone.

Posted by: Pea Green | Jun 22 2017 13:02 utc | 61

"FYI (a bit of a bugbear of mine). "Formerly" ie, in the past, "Formally" - ie, in a 'formal' way, by the book etc. - i think it is the latter that you were after rather than the former? - Jules"

Thanks, I definitely meant 'formally'. I messed up hear (just kidding hear here). Getting details like this correct is important. I edit my posts multiple times in an attempt to make them more clear. I find that I end up shortening them by an average of about 30%.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jun 22 2017 14:31 utc | 62

@Peter AU, xor

Any sources/ links on 'Turkey is preparing some sort of offensive'?

I can't imagine Moscow or Damascus allowing the Turks to invade Afrin. Why allow them to strengthen their military position in northern Aleppo, knowing that it'll be hard to make them leave later on?

However, I can imagine realistic threats of a Turkish invasion in the direction of the SDF/ YPG,J - in order to 'convince' them to remain in their parts of Syria, i.e. not move towards Deir ez-Zor and maybe leave Tabqa.

Posted by: smuks | Jun 22 2017 17:55 utc | 63

European Council reaches agreement on extension of sanctions against Russia

The President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, announced it on his twitter account.

the EUnuchs do as they're told. the donald tusk emulates the donald trump.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 22 2017 23:37 utc | 64

@jfl 64

Because these sanctions don't (seriously) hurt.
But the moment Congress threatened 'real' sanctions, Germany et al were up in arms...

Posted by: smuks | Jun 23 2017 1:48 utc | 65


have the house and the senate given up on the gas sanctions? apparently its party-time on the us gas-patch's dime now in ac/dc. that's all it takes to buy a us senator nowadays. all sanctions - gas especially - will prove a very useful wedge driven between the usofa and its eunuchs. well, the european governments, anyway. i wonder that the europeans (germany) have not yet been able to notice that 'their' eu is a full-blown 5th column for the usofa? none of the european nations involved nor russia seem to have stopped work on the new northern gas pipeline.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 2:07 utc | 66


No, and they won't. The threatened sanctions would have been Iran-style, with punishments for European companies involved in Russian pipelines. They're off the table afaik after swift intervention by Germany and Austria. EU is playing along the sanctions game, but only as long as it doesn't get serious, and doesn't threaten the basis of economic cooperation with Russia, which is oil and gas.

Actually, ties between EU & Russia run much deeper and stronger than between EU & US.

Posted by: smuks | Jun 23 2017 2:32 utc | 67

What does it say that this is being reported on the China press site but not US?

How China and the US are talking nice

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2017 4:01 utc | 68

Qatar's neighbors issue steep list of demands to end crisis

If Qatar agrees to comply, the list asserts that it will be audited once a month for the first year, and then once per quarter in the second year after it takes effect. For the following 10 years, Qatar would be monitored annually for compliance.

clearly this a list issued for qatar to reject. next step ...?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 5:02 utc | 69

@67 smuks, 'Actually, ties between EU & Russia run much deeper and stronger than between EU & US'

i don't believe it. certainly in the real world they do, independent of politics, but the us owns the eu. when told to jump the answer is 'how high'.

individual european nations may realize that their ties to russia are much deeper and stronger than their imaginary ties to the us - which are, like a dog's connection to its master at the end of its leash, one-way - but none of them have found the backbone to act on that realization, yet.

talk has started. that must precede action, i suppose. and certainly it looks like the northern pipeline is a line drawn in the sand, as well as on the map.

i think that it is healthy and necessary for 'europe' to recognize russia as a european country and the us as a non-european country. i don't see any chance of the eu doing that. i hope the individual european countries do.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 5:10 utc | 70

What does it say that this is being reported on the China press site but not US?
(How China and the US are talking nice)
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23, 2017 12:01:28 AM | 68

It says that even though the Yankees pretended not to notice that..

Fang Fenghui, a member of China's Central Military Commission (CMC) and chief of the CMC Joint Staff Department, also participated in the dialogue.

...they did notice, but prefer to conceal the fact that the Chinese aren't as wishy-washy as AmeriKKKa wishes they could be...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 23 2017 5:18 utc | 71

@68 psycho

Spotlight: China, U.S. hold "constructive and fruitful" dialogue on diplomatic, security issues

Both sides agreed that the inaugural diplomatic and security dialogue was "constructive" and "fruitful" and pledged to continue with the mechanism to further develop Sino-U.S. relations.

The dialogue is one of the four high-level mechanisms established during the Mar-a-Lago meeting between Chinese President Xi Jinping and U.S. President Donald Trump in Florida in April.

The successful meeting between Xi and Trump set the course for China-U.S. relations in the new era ...

i think they're talking right past each other.

the us is trying to split russia-china, cut a separate 'deal' with china.

china is trying to get the us to

- 'respect [china's] political system and mode of development, as well as
- sovereignty,
- territorial integrity and
- developmental interests'

the us is trying to

- brand china as a 'human rights abuser' and dictatorial one-party state,
- deny china's ambitions in the south china sea,
- sell arms to taiwan and sow discord between taiwan and the mainland, and
- disrupt china's obor/bri initiative.

china is holding all the high cards in its hand. doesn't make much difference what the usofa 'intends'. china's going to call, in the end.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 5:25 utc | 72

Re China and the US are talking nice...

Yankees are Stentorian blowhards and it's enemies-of-convenience aren't.
If it gets out that its bigger enemies are NOT quivering in their boots then the bluster and the blusterers will look and sound stupid, or worse.

I stumbled upon an interesting perspective on "charisma" recently...

Quentin Crisp, the English fop, wit and subject of Sting's 'An Englishman in New York', said, "Charisma is the ability to influence without logic."

Chapter 2, REVOLUTION by Russell Brand.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 23 2017 6:08 utc | 73

@69 jfl... that showdown at the saudi arabian corral is getting interesting..

Posted by: james | Jun 23 2017 6:33 utc | 74

May government admits hundreds more UK tower blocks potentially clad in combustible material

The Conservative government has revealed that 600 high rise buildings have “similar” cladding to Grenfell Tower, west London where the inferno on June 14 claimed the lives of at least 79 people.

With the final death toll still unknown and public anger growing, May has called a public inquiry into the fire as part of the Conservative government’s attempt to cover up its own role and that of its corporate friends in mass murder.

Organised under the 2005 Inquiries Act, the terms and scope of the inquiry—which could take years to complete—will be fully controlled by the government. Its purpose is to divert social and political discontent into safe channels and to forestall the necessary criminal proceedings and the immediate arrest and charging of those responsible.

it's not only britain ... the people of detroit have been systematically poisoned by politicians looking after their cronies' interests in privatizing the water supply.

i'm sure there are examples from every state in the neolibraconian empire of exactly the same thing.

people's lives are inconsequential, there're kickbacks to be had from privatizing public functions.

the mechanisms of government are corrupt, incapable of reform. it's up to ordinary people to ban together, to seize power, and to save ourselves from extinction at the 'hands' of transnational corporations.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 10:27 utc | 75

Qatar row: Arab states send list of steep demands

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are asking the Gulf state to

1) Shut down its broadcaster, Al Jazeera
2) To reduce ties with Iran and
3) Close a Turkish military base - all within 10 days
4) Sever all ties with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is banned in other Arab states
5) Refuse to naturalise citizens from the four countries and expel those currently on its territory, in what the countries describe as an effort to keep Qatar from meddling in their internal affairs
6) Hand over all individuals who are wanted by the four countries for terrorism
7) Stop funding any extremist entities that are designated as terrorist groups by the US
8) Provide detailed information about opposition figures whom Qatar has funded, ostensibly in Saudi Arabia and the other nations
9) Align itself politically, economically and otherwise with the [Persian] Gulf Co-operation Council
10) Stop funding other news outlets in addition to Al Jazeera, including Arabi21 and Middle East Eye
11) Pay an unspecified sum in compensation
12) Sever links with so-called Islamic State, al-Qaeda and Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah
13) Shut down diplomatic posts in Iran, expel any members of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard and only conduct trade with Iran that complies with US sanctions.

so ... 10 days to get ready to repel the invasion ?

1) order thousands of missiles from iran capable of hitting riyadh, the capitals of the uae and manama ...
2) open a back channel to sisi, buy him off
3) call on turkey and pakistan to put up or shut up
4) give the usofa 1 day's notice to affirm it will defend qatar, or move its troops out of qatar
5) if (when) the usofa fails to affirm its intent to defend qatar, offer its erstwhile qatari base to the russians if they will do so ... ask them to bring along an s-400 or three, COD.
6) invite the houthis to open a yemeni embassy in qatar
7) ask the houthis how qatar might be service to them in their resistance to saudi/uae domination/genocide
8) join the russians, turks, iranians and syrians at astana

i'm sure the qataris know better than i what to add to their list of preparations.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 11:08 utc | 76

With the absence of any accountability for managing the Grenfell Tower block, it is likely a large number of people were trapped by the fire that began in the lower floors. At 2:30 in the morning, most people, even in Britain are home and sleeping. The reluctance to address the loss of life makes me believe the final death count will be well over 300 and as much as 400 to 500. The combustion of organic materials looked to be complete in released photos of the interior and 24 hours before extinguishing the fire would leave little bone left. To have only 75 known deaths at this time, sounds more like an exercise in news management to avoid exciting public reactions. The British government needs be replaced, Queen down, should this be the case and the local governments charged with mass murder.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 23 2017 12:43 utc | 77

Israeli Intelligence Calls Saudi King To Invite Netanyahu To Riyadh

Israeli Intelligence and Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz has called on Saudi Arabia’s King Salman to establish full diplomatic relations with Israel. He suggested to the Saudi king to invite Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Saudi Arabia and to send Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman to Israel.

“I call upon Salman, the King of Saudi, to invite the prime minister of Israel Netanyahu to visit Saudi Arabia,” Katz said on Thursday speaking at the Herzliya conference. “We saw what a wonderful host you can be… when President Trump was there. You can also send your heir, the new one, Prince Mohammed bin Salman. He’s a dynamic person. He is an initiator. And he wants to break through.”

Katz added that Mohammed bin Salman “is going to be a very welcome guest” because he and other members of the Saudi leadership know what Iran is and what has to be done.

there have to be a lot of arabs, a lot of muslims, to whom this call is anathema. the israelis surely know that.

they and their man rump are setting the saudi suckers up for t-h-e terminal fall?

maybe "the rump's" generals intend to defend qatar from the upcoming saudi/uae/bahrain onslaught?

maybe they intend then to actually set-up a protectorate in arabia? just like the good ole days?

'we should have kept the oil'?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 13:43 utc | 78

USS Fitzgerald: no sailor should die because of preventable human error

Judging from the images of the damage, it’s easy to conclude that the destroyer failed to give way and should be held at fault. But it is premature to jump to any conclusions until the investigation is completed. There may well be fault on both sides.

and the usn is going all-out to develop some.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 13:58 utc | 79

@78 "there have to be a lot of arabs, a lot of muslims, to whom this call is anathema."

Perhaps not as many as there used to be. They have been softened up over the years. Western educated types could be quite receptive. But at a minimum any relationship should be contingent on a Palestinian state.

Posted by: dh | Jun 23 2017 14:11 utc | 80


"i don't believe it. certainly in the real world they do, independent of politics..."
In the end, it's the 'real world' that counts. Of course publicly visible diplomatic relations with the US are much better - but those can change almost from one day to the next (cf KSA-Qatar), gas supplies can't. Mind you, I'm just taking note, not approving of this, since EUrope has to maintain good & stable relations with both West and East to be able to mediate when needed.

"like a dog's connection to its master at the end of its leash, one-way"
Not really. The EU (read: Germany) wanted to tear Yugoslavia apart, so there would be no resistance to its economic take-over of the Balkans. The US was initially reluctant, but in the end finished the job for the Europeans. Similar story in Ukraine. So while Trump certainly exaggerates this aspect, there is some truth in the idea that Europe outsources its defence and lets the US do the 'dirty work' in its place.

That Qatar list is interesting indeed, looks like hastily pinned down bc Doha complained there were no demands. With Turkish & US troops in the country (and the clear ambiguity of the US position), I don't see any real chance of escalation - but at least now they have something to talk, posture and issue threats about. Intra-Arab politics are weird, alliances being always in flux...

@psycho 68

This sentence is interesting:
"The U.S. side said it acknowledged China's rapid development and has no intention of curbing China."
Is this an implicit recognition of Chinese suzerainty in the SCS?

Posted by: smuks | Jun 23 2017 14:22 utc | 81


The photo on xinhuanet once again reminded me how the Washington 'elite' resemble more and more the Soviet nomenclatura in the (very) late stages of the USSR.

Posted by: smuks | Jun 23 2017 14:24 utc | 82

@ smuks and others responding to my China/US talking nice link.

I learned some 40+ years ago that the future is always arriving but the results are not evenly distributed.

The scary part is that the US has become the instantiation of the evil of control by a global elite (hint; they own private finance and everything else). And furthermore, brainwashed Americans are in the middle of the Roaring Teens of this century and can't be bothered with worrying about social responsibility and the future of our species.

cue Phil Ochs "outside of a small circle of friends"......sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 23 2017 14:46 utc | 83

@80 dh, 'Western educated types could be quite receptive'

western educated types are quite receptive to monstrously 'profitable' but perverse measures everywhere ... especially in the west, where they are much more populous than in arabia. they are riding the coattails of the monarchs and dictators in arabia - and thailand, for instance - but longterm they're losers. change comes from those abused by them, not from themselves. they are only interested in the status quo. and they are abusing the majority, everywhere, more and more everyday. a change is gonna come.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 15:04 utc | 84

psychohistorian | Jun 23, 2017 10:46:54 AM | 83
Well said; as a self exiled Usian; I couldn't agree more...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Jun 23 2017 15:09 utc | 85

@81 smuks, ' "The U.S. side said it acknowledged China's rapid development and has no intention of curbing China." '

The U.S. side said it acknowledged Russia as a partner and had no intention of expanding NATO to the east of Germany. George XLIII say it about 43 times in the course of Oliver Stone's with Putin. His daddy told him to, i'm sure.

what's the scs? the south china sea? maybe they want to sell lng to the chinese? that seems to be a 'hot project' on the tnc agenda. they think they can compete with what comes out of pipelines ... force their vassals in the EU to pay too much for their gas supply, in deference to the exceptional state which must be obeyed. china? their delusion is terminal.

but there is no real reason for the us to oppose china in the 'scs', no more reason than for china to oppose the us in the caribbean. the us just picked it up, put it - like a chip - on its shoulder. it was a handy-dandy point to dispute. the us can afford to drop it at any time. dispute over north korea, for instance. and thaad.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 15:25 utc | 86

@80 dh, 'at a minimum any relationship should be contingent on a Palestinian state'

the israeli leopard will have to change its spots ... or the 'palestinian state' will have to be an outright fraud ... for that to fly. great opportunity for the rhetoricians to sell the latter. maybe they can have a magic orb session in tel aviv.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 23 2017 15:33 utc | 87


The EU (read: Germany) wanted to tear Yugoslavia apart, so there would be no resistance to its economic take-over of the Balkans.

There was no economic resistance in SFRY for West Germany. Germany and SFRY enjoyed a visa free travel. Thousands of Germans vacated on the Adriatic cost every year, thousands of Yugoslav workers went to work in Germany. Just to put it into perspective, Yugoslavs needed visas for USA, USSR, France, UK and even Greece!
German Mark was like a second currency in Yugoslavia. I bought my first computers in DM, and sold them in DM. Volkswagen cars were the 2nd most popular after Fiat - and the Fiat was the most popular because they licensed Fiat 750 manufacturing in Zastava.
In SFRJ, industrial machinery and equipment were either from Gernany, Italy of France. JUS (Yugoslav industry standard) was based and modeled after DIN,and there was a rule if something was not covered in JUS, you look in DIN.

So to repeat what I said before. Yugoslavia was destroyed by Serbian and Croatian nationalism, not by spooky machinations of invisible world powers. Think about it for a second, put yourself, say, in Slovenians shoes. Why would they have to put up with Serbian shit? Of course they wanted to get out from defacto defunct federation once they heard chanting from the east SERBIA FIRST! SERBIA FIRST! and after Serbia imposed economic sanctions against them.

Posted by: hopehely | Jun 23 2017 16:26 utc | 88

@87 I don't think we'll see Bibi doing the sword dance. These things go in slow stages. Israel will 'agree to discuss all outstanding issues' if the Saudis let them open a 'trade mission' in Riyadh. Trump will get excited and declare peace in the Middle East.

Posted by: dh | Jun 23 2017 16:50 utc | 89


Don't underestimate the strategic importance of both LNG and SCS.

It's all about who (militarily) controls vital trade routes, and thus wields power over anyone depending on them. Russia and Iran are land powers, so they want to deliver gas through pipelines - the US/UK are a sea power, so they want countries to depend on LNG imports via ship. Pipelines are anathema to the US, unless they pass through countries under their direct influence.

Same for the SCS: China is struggling to control the shipping lanes it most depends on, so it cannot be blackmailed in the future. Malacca, Sri Lanka, Hormuz, Bab el-Mandab, South and East China Seas...the recent shift of Panama's China policy is noteworthy, in that it is a first step towards a neutral canal zone. Which was the intention of pretending to build a 'Nicaragua Canal' all along.


Agreed on everything (you know better than me about these real-life things), but you're missing some important points imo. Exporting to a country is one thing, taking over its entire economy (or at least all the interesting bits like finance, energy, telecom) is another. The sell-out of the Balkan countries to western European corporations in the 90s and 00s would have met some resistance from Belgrade I presume.

Serbian and Croatian nationalism certainly played a role (foreign intervention is rarely successful if there are no internal tensions to exploit), but so did the diplomatic and military support handed to Slovenia and Croatia. Also I heard (haven't researched this more thoroughly though) that the economic crisis of the early 90s was partly due to outside financial pressures...?

Posted by: smuks | Jun 23 2017 17:33 utc | 90

If any may be curious about how the USN will be trying to justify themselves and put the blame (by innuendo and implication) see this from RT:

Large ships are almost always on autopilot with human supervision and all their movements are automatically recorded in their navigation logs, now digitalised. Inferring with a crew of 20 there was no one on the bridge is fake reporting. The container vessel did not 'broadside' the naval idiots, they put their ship directly and immediately in front of the freighter and had both greater speed and manoeuvrability to avoid the collision, that is until their close proximity to the much larger freighter cause them to loose control, striking first the freighter's bulbous bow that gashed the warship's hull as it lifted the smaller vessel and rolling it at the same time. as the destroyer righted itself it crashed into and bent upward the freighter's bow and left the damage seen on the warship's superstructure. NO, something is being covered up here, an act of military terrorism against a merchant vessel flying a flag of a presently politically despised nation - The Philippines. Consider also with a crew of 20, all available crew would be examining their vessel for damage. That the 'radio room' on the destroyer sustained damage is nothing but a red herring, if ever there was one. Jfl's link was trivial garbage, mostly stating the obvious with no new information to be gained, their assumption being doG's Navy can do no wrong, just like their emperor in the WH.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 23 2017 19:10 utc | 91

@90 smuks

The sell-out of the Balkan countries to western European corporations in the 90s and 00s would have met some resistance from Belgrade I presume.

Yes it would, about the same level of resistance as Bucharest and Sofia gave. Meaning, not so much.
Also I heard (haven't researched this more thoroughly though) that the economic crisis of the early 90s was partly due to outside financial pressures...?

I guess you think of the economic crisis of the early 80s - in early 90s it was already the terminal phase political crisis followed by war and disintegration of the state.
Yes, the austerity measures in early 80s, introduced by the government of Milka Planinc (to be able to service debt incurred by the previous administrations of Comrade Tito) lead to quite unpleasant economic crisis that pretty much managed to diminish our faith to 'the best economic model in the world'. The living standard fell down quite lot compared to the previous decades of perceived prosperity. Slovenians and Croats blamed us 'undeveloped' lazy slackers back East that they have to finance, support and drag along. We blamed them that they are taking advantage of us, exploiting us and ripping us off. Now combine that with the political problems in Serbia induced by Albanian uprising which has been simmering since 1968 and flared up in 1981, and you get the situation that was just ripe for Milosevic to show up in 1987 and to offer and promise the quick and simple solution for all of it.

Posted by: hopehely | Jun 24 2017 3:39 utc | 92

Russia responded imaginatively to Christian Colonial sanction threats yesterday. According to DW News, via AP, Russia has stipulated that the Source Code for any US computer software must be submitted to Russian Authorities, to be scrutinised for potential NSA exploits, before it can be approved for sale in the Russian Federation.
Some hi-profile US software producers have already declined the offer. Others are calculating the downside of turning their back on a $20 Billion market...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 24 2017 4:31 utc | 93

"US President Donald Trump has appeared to acknowledge Russia's alleged effort to interfere in the 2016 US presidential election while taking advantage of a new report to criticize his predecessor Barack Obama."

Posted by: Anon | Jun 24 2017 9:32 utc | 94

@93 hoarse, 'Russia has stipulated that the Source Code for any US computer software must be submitted to Russian Authorities, to be scrutinised for potential NSA exploits, before it can be approved for sale in the Russian Federation.'

i'm sure the cia/nsa doesn't use windows, android, or OSX. opensource is no pancea, but closedsource surely spells doom. and no one knows that better than the cia/nsa ... the exploiters of dumb.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 24 2017 9:40 utc | 95

@90 smuks, 'Don't underestimate the strategic importance of both LNG ...'

there's got to be a large production cost difference between liquified natural gas and pipeline gas. pipeline gas will always be cheaper than lng, and as a consequence pipeline suppliers will always be able to sell gas at a price that will bankrupt liquified competition, especially people who are fracking to produce the gas before they liquify, tanker, and ship it. and of course the scs situation is a lot less of a cliff-hanger if china is independent of oil shipped from the middle east.

china, japan, south korea, india ... the countries with the r&d and industrial wherewithal to move to hydrogen need to do so. not only will they have no more fossil fuel liabilities, supply security, and outright wars to worry about ... but they can distribute their energy production within their own nations and stimulate their economies via the energy cost savings and production dividends of doing so. this is not sci-fi stuff any longer. a joint push by them all cooperatively ... think just those four ... could do it in less than a decade.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 24 2017 10:36 utc | 96

@91 ftb, 'jfl's link was trivial garbage, mostly stating the obvious with no new information to be gained, their assumption being doG's Navy can do no wrong, just like their emperor in the WH.'

well that's right ... but the guy admitted right off the bat - as you pointed out, right off the bat - that the destroyer sailed in front of the container ship when the container ship had the right-of-way, and then he forecast the kind of dodge that you point out in the rt article. the usn is going to do its best to 'ameliorate' its naked responsibility for the deaths of seven of its sailors. and the msm will salute, and aid and abet its efforts. and the american public are going to lend a sympathetic ear. remember the uss liberty, the kennedy assassinations, 9/11, libya and syria as r2p operations, the russians hacked the election ... we americans actively foster our own 'order-preserving' delusions ... as do humans in general.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 24 2017 10:52 utc | 97

Grenfell Tower fire: UK police considering manslaughter charges

Experts have claimed that victims of the Grenfell Tower inferno might have been killed by highly toxic gases, namely cyanide and carbon monoxide, emitted by the building’s external cladding as it burnt.

According to Professor of Environmental Toxicology at Leeds University Alastair Hay, the people who were trapped inside the building as the fire spread would have had “no chance whatsoever” of surviving because of the “very high concentration” of such gasses.

“If the concentration [of cyanide] was very high, they would have no chance whatsoever, because cyanide can kill really within a matter of seconds,” Hay told Russia’s RT news netwrok.

“What it essentially does is block oxygen use in your cells” causing the person to become “immobile” and “die from a heart attack very quickly.”

“Most often it is the gases that kill people […] before they are exposed to flames,” Hay added.

According to British authorities, at least 79 people are believed to be dead after the fire engulfed the 120-apartment high-rise, which has the capacity to accommodate up to 600 people.

Cladding was installed on the outside of Grenfell Tower last year for both insulation and aesthetic purposes. The combustible material is suspected to have aided the “unprecedented” spread of the fire, trapping most of the residents inside the burning building.

[Detective Superintendent Fiona] McCormack said tests conducted as part of the probe so far were “small scale,” but added, “All I can say at the moment is they (tiles and insulation) don't pass any safety tests.”

“What we are being told at the moment by the Building Research Establishment is that the cladding and insulation failed all safety tests,” she continued.

“We have been in Grenfell Tower, from top to bottom, last week. Next week we will be installing a lift to the outside of the building to assist. But our forensic search may not be complete until the end of the year,” she stated.

“There is a terrible reality that we may not find or identify everyone who died due to the intense heat,” the official acknowledged.

the cover-up seems locked in.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 24 2017 14:56 utc | 98

As interviewed on RT's Max Keiser report (1088) with lawyer and filmmaker John Titus ("All the Plenary's Men") is mind blowing. A must watch, imo.

An excellent essay in simplifying the complex occult working of the dominant fascism in control today - globally. Thus we have displayed for the average person the meaning of Mussolini's definition of the "The marriage of corporation and state" -- "...barely able to slip a cigarette paper between commerce and government."

"All the Plenary's Men'

Posted by: x | Jun 24 2017 14:56 utc | 99

@ 97 jfl

mea culpa - it was the link that was garbage, not the connector thereto, you only provided the opportunity to be exposed. The link to RT had no source indicated (which was troubling) but did clearly show the methods being employed to transfer responsibility, obfuscate factual information necessary to understanding responsibility for the accident, and make a silk purse out of pig's ears of unfamiliarity with nautical procedures. That particular article demonstrates Corporate Media Malfeasance creating propaganda at its clearest should you know what to look for. The lies, about everything, all the time.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 24 2017 14:56 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.