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May 17, 2017
Open Thread 2017-19
News & views …
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Glenn Greenwald has published quite a heroic paean to Chelsea Manning and her courage, https://theintercept.com/2017/05/17/chelsea-manning-is-a-free-woman-her-heroism-has-expanded-beyond-her-initial-whistle-blowing/ But it’s the comment by photosymbiosis that helps dot the Is and cross the Ts, https://theintercept.com/2017/05/17/chelsea-manning-is-a-free-woman-her-heroism-has-expanded-beyond-her-initial-whistle-blowing/?comments=1#comment-400755 Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 18:21 utc | 1 You know, it’s a funny thing. It would nice to be able to exhort, just for once, Let’s all discuss something that is not fricking duh-merica. Posted by: Bill Person | May 17 2017 18:29 utc | 3 May 16, 2017 Posted by: ben | May 17 2017 18:49 utc | 4 US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II Posted by: ben | May 17 2017 19:14 utc | 5 ben @4– Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 19:18 utc | 6 About Corbyn: it is very important to note that voters were presented with a new Labour Manifesto, which is good news, and thanks the infinite cosmic void, not a New Labour Manifesto. Alas, what seems to work can be put to music like that Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2017 19:53 utc | 7 karlof1 Posted by: OJS | May 17 2017 19:57 utc | 8 British voters are faced with stark choices: do you want a leader who covers the feet like that or like that? No wonder that manifestoes or the lack of them (Tories did not show one yet) play a minor role. Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2017 20:02 utc | 9 @karlof1 1 Posted by: Heros | May 17 2017 20:14 utc | 10 OJS @8– Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 20:16 utc | 11 karlof1 says: Posted by: john | May 17 2017 20:17 utc | 12 The latest from the Bonn Climate Change Conference is that a developing nations bloc is trying to ban corporate lobbyists from trolling the halls buttonholing the official delegates. The U.S. is leading the charge to keep the lobbyists around. Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 17 2017 20:28 utc | 13 “The fact that Manning is allowing himself to be used by the homosexuals running the intercept to push a transexual agenda is enough evidence of him being totally coopted for me. Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2017 20:30 utc | 14 @1 karlof1.. i have felt this way about bradley manning, who became chelsea – since day 1… not sure what greenwald is saying, but i agree with @8 OJS which you acknowledge as well.. thanks.. Posted by: james | May 17 2017 20:45 utc | 15 @10 heroes.. i see now who @14 piotr is quoting.. i don’t agree with you one bit.. Posted by: james | May 17 2017 22:33 utc | 16 @6 Karlofi 1 re the Chinese Space Program: Posted by: RUKidding | May 17 2017 22:48 utc | 17 Heros @10– Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 22:54 utc | 18 Heros @10, Posted by: sillybill | May 17 2017 22:55 utc | 19 Heros @ 10: I very much doubt that it was Bradley Manning’s choice to mix his sexuality with the revelation of US war crimes in Iraq. The Western MSM did most of that, emphasising his change of gender over his actions and insinuating as a result that he was mentally unstable. Don’t blame Manning over something he had no control over while he was in jail and which the media was obsessed with. Posted by: Jen | May 17 2017 23:21 utc | 20 IMO we’re watching a color revolution in Washington. Much as I dislike Trump, I have deep, deep reservations about the Posted by: JohnH | May 17 2017 23:21 utc | 21 Actually that Labour Manifesto is rather tame. Posted by: smuks | May 17 2017 23:48 utc | 22 What Heros is saying, if I may… is that anything Manning utters in the public sphere from now on will be spun via the trasngender, isn’t she great? angle. No matter what it is. It remains to be seen if her mind is intact, in an activist sense. Posted by: sejomoje | May 18 2017 1:02 utc | 23 A startup in Montreal can simulate a human speaker with 60 seconds of voice. Wonder what the security services could do with more equipment then God … Posted by: daffyDuct | May 18 2017 1:28 utc | 24 @18 karlof1.. thanks. it seems that article touches on some of the same points. Posted by: james | May 18 2017 1:39 utc | 25 @23 sejomoje Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 1:55 utc | 27 Interesting bit of reporting by Jenan Moussa on conditions inside Idlib. Sent three guys in to take cellphone vid (supposedly forbidden) then transmitted to Turkey for uploading. FSA non-existant, al Qaeda/Nusra everywhere. A real jihadi paradise. Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 2:53 utc | 28 Seems odd. Suspicious, no? – the timing of – the horrific revelation of the disgusting “Collateral Damage” video as exposed by B. Manning soon becoming overshadowed and overwhelmed by the unfolding event of B. Manning becomes C. Manning. Posted by: fast freddy | May 18 2017 3:04 utc | 29 Hello! I could have sworn I’ve visited this website before but jfl! Absolutely. I know I don’t opine here much but I absolutely agree! Don’t get me wrong. Posted by: sejomoje | May 18 2017 3:45 utc | 31 The CIA-Uyghur stuff is finally coming out. I figured it’d be heinous and inextricably linked to a current op, I mean a blind man could see it. Hopefully they’ll wise up quicker than the Kurds have and not let Uncle Scum onto the actual Chinese border but I guess that’s likely already happened, though solidly in the future news category at this point. Posted by: sejomoje | May 18 2017 3:50 utc | 32 @28 paveway.. the lady has a lot of balls.. it’s a really informative 22′ video. thanks.. Posted by: james | May 18 2017 4:24 utc | 33 Whilst I acknowledge it is hardly de rigeur at MoA to quote from that bastion of neoliberalism, the englander guardian, I thought that some other habitues who cannot bring themselves to wade through the fishwrap’s distortions and blatant blackmail of those seeking to make a difference, might be interested in this article Brazil: explosive recordings implicate President Michel Temer in bribery Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 4:34 utc | 34 IIRC there was at least two years space between the release of the ‘collateral murder’ video and Ms Manning’s announcement of her transgender status. She didn’t say anything about the latter until after her unjust conviction. Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 4:48 utc | 35 This is red flag. It shows that “Justice Democrats” are not to be trusted: This is what @justicedems tweeted: Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 18 2017 5:07 utc | 36 RT excellent show Watching The Hawks – Chelsea Manning free at last & Doing Time Like a Spy (E483). Posted by: OJS | May 18 2017 6:47 utc | 38 https://youtu.be/il51aZUieWg Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 18 2017 6:52 utc | 39 @39 $cam Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 7:03 utc | 40 John Helmer’s latest on Canada’s Banderite Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland’s compulsive lying about conversations she’s never had… Posted by: John Gilberts | May 18 2017 7:15 utc | 41 Chilling interview with Dutchman Ronald Bernard, former senior currency trader and asset manager, about his “career” and how it ended Posted by: Headache | May 18 2017 7:23 utc | 42 @ Paveway 28 Posted by: Peter AU | May 18 2017 8:45 utc | 43 Posted by: PavewayIV | May 17, 2017 10:53:39 PM | 28 Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 9:39 utc | 44 @44 sb Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 10:04 utc | 45 There is an interesting age gap in Russia’s favorability Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 11:22 utc | 46 Elite banker blows whistle: 8,500 Satanists run the financial-business world and control politicians, police, judges etc via blackmail: Posted by: Anoncommentator | May 18 2017 11:34 utc | 47 Currency traders are the shitkickers at the bottom of the heap. They are the blokes casually thrown to the wolves when a bank is caught doing the usual bank stuff. They operate under orders and are about as far from the decision makers as a road sweeper is from the mayor’s office. This Ronald bloke wouldn’t have clue about who is up who and who pays the rent among the banking elite. Satanists eh – farcical might as well claim they are reptiles from Mars too – take yer pills Ronald. Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 13:01 utc | 49 Trump: “Such groups [DAESH and PKK] will “have no safe quarter,” Trump said in the White House” Posted by: AtaBrit | May 18 2017 13:02 utc | 50 @ben | 4 Posted by: AtaBrit | May 18 2017 13:16 utc | 51 Peter AU@43 – “I think she said it was FSA or moderate rebels that she had contact with that did the filming?” Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 13:24 utc | 52 @Paveway 28 Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 13:27 utc | 53 somebody@46 – The most interesting thing about that poll to me isn’t the age gap. It’s the fact that they even reported Israel’s anti-Russian bias AT ALL. At 77% unfavorable, they are the country that has the most unfavorable opinion of Russia out of all countries in the poll. Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 13:42 utc | 54 Brazil – this could get kind of relevant: Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 13:46 utc | 55 smuks@53 – Like any reporting that comes out of the Middle East, you have to take it with a grain of salt. But her reports make sense – the FSA doesn’t really exist anymore despite American cries to the contrary. Everyone lies about everything in Syria. That said, I’ll take Jenan Moussa’s word over Wolf Blitzer’s any day. Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 13:54 utc | 56 So all of youse who prefer their Occam’s razor dull, did Roger Ailes kark it due to natural causes (ie the omnipotent sky pilot had enough of his rapey ways) or did that ancient ocker Rupert Murdoch, decide to have him knocked because Ailes knew where too many bodies were buried? Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 13:58 utc | 57 Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18, 2017 9:42:02 AM | 54 Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 14:05 utc | 58 somebody@58 – All good reasons. The underlying cause is subject to debate, but that (to me) is kind of peripheral. I’m a lot more concerned about the effect: Israel’s ability to so easily use American thuggery for some hair-brained “Destruction of Russia” scheme. Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 14:16 utc | 59 @Paveway 54 Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 14:19 utc | 60 @Paveway 56 Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 15:07 utc | 61 @43 peterau @52 paveway… indeed it seems the free syrian army were responsible for that video from the point of view, the lady was quite focused on how what was once ( she thought ) a homespun uprising, has been hijacked by chinese – turkistanis, saudis and etc. etc. – nusra/al qaeda.. she seemed pissed about how they have come with a very different idea of liberating syria.. i think the lady is syrian and working inside syria. i could be wrong, but in the comments section one can read – if they use a translator, how she has pissed off a lot of nutjobs for saying what she is saying. bottom line – yes, peter au is correct in his view on this probably being an fsa product.. Posted by: james | May 18 2017 15:36 utc | 62 Sputniknews is reporting a coalition strike on the SAA near Tanif. Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 17:40 utc | 63 Seems evident SOuthern Syria is going to be invaded by the ‘coalition’ Posted by: aaaa | May 18 2017 17:52 utc | 64 Sputniknews is also reporting that the alleged strike occufed in one of the de-confliction zones agreed to by Russia/Iran/Turkey/. So, yet again the US finds the most hauling way to put a cigarette out in Russia’s eye. Hopefully Russia will shut down the memorandum of understanding hotline again. Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 18:12 utc | 65 ~Sigh~ Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 18:21 utc | 66 @63 wwinsti.. thanks for the update.. peter au was discussing this location a few days ago here at moa and the importance of it for the usa and that it is inside syria.. the invaders have arrived.. i honestly think this is also why they are so down on trump.. he isn’t rubber stamping israel/saudi regime change, divying up syria agenda.. thus trump must go.. here is what amn is saying Posted by: james | May 18 2017 18:31 utc | 67 Al-Masdar News reports this: “According to a military source in Damascus, the US Coalition carried out a “warning” strike, which was meant to deter the Syrian government forces from advancing further into rebel-held territory; however, this has not been confirmed by the Syrian Army’s High Command.” https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/us-bombs-syrian-army-east-sweida-report/ Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 18:40 utc | 68 Add to my 68– Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 18:52 utc | 69 “… US-led coalition carried out airstrikes against a Syrian Arab Army (SAA) convoy advancing along the Al-Tanf-Damascus-Baghdad international road. The airstrikes targeted Syrian forces in Al-Shuhaimi area, 50 km from the town of Al-Tanf located at the Syrian-Iraqi border. Posted by: xor | May 18 2017 18:55 utc | 70 xor @70– Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 19:05 utc | 71 I’ve been highly critical of Putin in the past, so allow me to play devil’s advocate a little here. Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 20:02 utc | 72 @70 xor… turning the story upside down at the bottom of your post really highlights how fucked up usa foreign invasion policy is, doesn’t it? Posted by: james | May 18 2017 20:18 utc | 73 http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/17/seth-rich-the-dnc-and-wikileaks-the-plot-thickens/ Posted by: jawbone | May 18 2017 20:28 utc | 74 Outlaw US Empire is using the fact that the region’s part of a deconfliction zone to legitimize its attack, which is bullshit. The Empire is NOT a partner of the deconfliction zones, and its presence on Syrian territory constitutes an invasion since it was never invited. As Garrie at The Duran put it: “A crime and a blunder” likely made by the local commander, not Trump as some are writing. All I seem to read most places is spin. Maybe when the sun rises on the other side of the planet we’ll get something from the top of Russia’s chain of command. Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 20:36 utc | 75 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/18/15658968/times-square-crash-terrorism-alcohol Say it can’t be so!! RT has some very laid back reporting
Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 21:02 utc | 78 @75 karlof1… but i do believe the usa is a part of the deconfliction zone agreement as @78 somebody seems to point out and from what i recall.. i think what has to be established here is what was the motive for bombing the syrian army, especially if they weren’t attacking anyone? i believe the parties have the right to attack isis/al qaeda/ and etc, but not the syrian army! that is the part that is definitely wrong here.. waiting to hear more on this and to see how russia responds.. Posted by: james | May 18 2017 21:49 utc | 79 PW4 Posted by: Quadriad | May 18 2017 21:57 utc | 80 @70 Posted by: aaaa | May 18 2017 22:16 utc | 81 US is saying al Tanf is part of a de-escalation/de-confliction zone but it it well outside the zones on any map I have seen. Posted by: Peter AU | May 18 2017 22:20 utc | 82 james @78– Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 23:06 utc | 83 Sounds rather worrying, but I’m somewhat with wwinsti @72 since the same has happened before, with both the Turkish downing of the Su-24 and April’s cruise missile attack leading to an improvement of air defences. The coalition (this wasn’t necessarily a US plane, in fact I doubt it) has no justification whatsoever for the attack. So imv this may well have been another one-off thing, and it could even paradoxically benefit Damascus & allies (same as the cases mentioned above, or the Hasakah skirmish). Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 23:13 utc | 84 Peter AU @82– Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 23:16 utc | 85 re Russia – Putin wants neither any uncontrollable escalation, nor to get sucked in too deep, so the reaction makes perfect sense to me. After all it’s Damascus’ war, not Moscow’s. Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 23:24 utc | 86 Peter AU@82 – As always, us tin-foil-hat-nutters always have our own special interpretation of the importance of At Tanf: Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 23:26 utc | 87 How’s this for BS Spin: “US Forces Defend ‘De-Escalation Zone’ in Syria”!https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-05-18/us-forces-defend-de-escalation-zone-fire-on-syrian-regime-troops Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 23:35 utc | 88 >>>> karlof1 | May 18, 2017 3:05:34 PM | 71
Not really. The United States military is vastly more powerful than the Russian one so if Putin strikes back, the Americans could do enough damage to severely disrupt the various campaigns in Syria. Instead, Putin’s best option is to proceed with his plans for liquidating ISIS and containing the other terrorist groups until the Americans get bored and go off and start another war elsewhere. Posted by: Ghostship | May 19 2017 0:34 utc | 89 karlof1 85 Posted by: Peter AU | May 19 2017 1:03 utc | 90 Re: Posted by: jawbone | May 18, 2017 4:28:52 PM | 74
I must admit, I am hanging on the possibility this is either FAKE NEWS, or a Trump switcheroo before picking someone else. this is a much more informative thread than the ‘special council’ one. thanks to all for the information, especially with respect to the ‘coalition’ attack on the saa on the ‘al Tanf’ road. should have come here first. Posted by: jfl | May 19 2017 1:59 utc | 92 WIKILEAKS ATTORNEYS: NEW LAURA POITRAS FILM PUTS “CLIENTS IN LEGAL JEOPARDY” Posted by: OJS | May 19 2017 3:03 utc | 93 Magnier is back on line after an absence of 8-9 days. Has a run of tweets on al Tanf – worth reading – and will be putting out an article tomorrow, hopefully in English as machine translation from Arabic is terrible. Posted by: Peter AU | May 19 2017 5:26 utc | 94 Paveway 87 Posted by: Peter AU | May 19 2017 7:54 utc | 95 Breaking: Sweden drops case for Assange, is he a free man now or will UK arrest him and send him to th the US? Posted by: Anon | May 19 2017 9:30 utc | 96 ref Assange Posted by: Mina | May 19 2017 9:52 utc | 97 https://www.rt.com/news/388904-assange-rape-investigation-drop/ [live]
http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-on-julian-assange-242877 Posted by: x | May 19 2017 10:03 utc | 98 So it seems that Julian Assange’s description one of the CIA actions as ” a historic act of devastating incompetence” is absolutely spot on. Posted by: Debsisdead | May 21 2017 5:40 utc | 99 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39988992 Posted by: Mina | May 21 2017 9:13 utc | 100 |
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