Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 17, 2017

Open Thread 2017-19

News & views ...

Posted by b on May 17, 2017 at 17:51 UTC | Permalink

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Glenn Greenwald has published quite a heroic paean to Chelsea Manning and her courage, But it's the comment by photosymbiosis that helps dot the Is and cross the Ts,

Manning is an exemplary example of a true Profile in Courage that puts the behavior of those like Obama, Clinton et al into a starkly immoral light. I can't think of any greater patriot to emerge from within the Outlaw US Empire aside from Snowden and the other whistleblowers in several generations.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 18:21 utc | 1

You know, it's a funny thing. It would nice to be able to exhort, just for once, Let's all discuss something that is not fricking duh-merica.

But there is not a single topic I can think of where it is possible to proclaim, Here is somewhere unsullied by rapacious duh-merican hands...

Posted by: Bill Person | May 17 2017 18:29 utc | 3

May 16, 2017
Corbyn's New Labour Manifesto Fires Up Base, Angers UK Elites

"Thomas Barlow of UK's Real Media says Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's new "For the Many, Not the Few" manifesto puts sweeping progressive change on the table, much to the chagrin of the British political and media establishment."

Posted by: ben | May 17 2017 18:49 utc | 4

US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II

"It is essential that Americans learn more about this topic so that they can begin to understand the pain that others feel. Someone once observed that the Germans during WWII “chose not to know.” We cannot allow history to say this about our country. The question posed above was “How many September 11ths has the United States caused in other nations since WWII?” The answer is: possibly 10,000.

From Global Research:

Posted by: ben | May 17 2017 19:14 utc | 5

ben @4--

Craig Murray has published an excellent essay exhorting Corbyn to embrace the SNP in order for his party to win,

Bill Person @3--

Few are aware of that China has a very ambitious space program aiming to establish a moon base by the end of the decade with two very important steps to be accomplished over the next two years. The linked item describes those, contains several vids, and links to much more,

It would seem China is the only nation listening to Stephen Hawking's revised warning about the necessity for humanity to relocate,

Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 19:18 utc | 6

About Corbyn: it is very important to note that voters were presented with a new Labour Manifesto, which is good news, and thanks the infinite cosmic void, not a New Labour Manifesto. Alas, what seems to work can be put to music like that

Bland is everything my true leader says,
I kiss the grass wherever she stands

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2017 19:53 utc | 7


I agree essentially everything except Glen Greenwald! You failed to give credits to Julian Assange and especially his trusted legal aids and closest adviser - Sarah Harrison. Sarah Harrison, her team hide Edward Snowden in HK and later she accompanied Edward Snowden flight from Hong Kong to Moscow. Again her team in Moscow negotiated with The Kremlin in Sheremetyevo Airport for Ed refuge from the Americans.

Posted by: OJS | May 17 2017 19:57 utc | 8

British voters are faced with stark choices: do you want a leader who covers the feet like that or like that? No wonder that manifestoes or the lack of them (Tories did not show one yet) play a minor role.

PS. Initially, I had two links, but I have found a comprehensive review of political footwear in UK. If only the political footwork were analyzed as keenly!

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2017 20:02 utc | 9

@karlof1 1

The fact that Manning is allowing himself to be used by the homosexuals running the intercept to push a transexual agenda is enough evidence of him being totally coopted for me.

But by allowing the mixing of his sexual agenda with his leaking of US war crimes and then allowing the tranny narrative to take precedence, he has trivialized the severity of that which he exposed.

It is no surprise that Obama pardoned this turncoat.

Posted by: Heros | May 17 2017 20:14 utc | 10

OJS @8--

I imagine the people deserving credit I omitted make a rather long list. I truly wonder if they'd outnumber the traitors operating within the Outlaw US Empire's government since 1943, including those silenced before they could talk; unfortunately, I think that's doubtful.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 20:16 utc | 11

karlof1 says:

I can't think of any greater patriot to emerge from within the Outlaw US Empire...

yeah, it's kinda funny, that in that martial environment of big grunts with big muscles and big guns, that it's the 'little fag' who commits the bravest act.

so walk as free as you can, Chelsea, and thanks again for the most devastating leak of them all...

the fuckers!

Posted by: john | May 17 2017 20:17 utc | 12

The latest from the Bonn Climate Change Conference is that a developing nations bloc is trying to ban corporate lobbyists from trolling the halls buttonholing the official delegates. The U.S. is leading the charge to keep the lobbyists around.

Check out the beat down meted out to protesters by Turkish security in front of the Turkish embassy in Washington. D.C. police feebly block the suited goons -- really they enable the violence.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 17 2017 20:28 utc | 13

"The fact that Manning is allowing himself to be used by the homosexuals running the intercept to push a transexual agenda is enough evidence of him being totally coopted for me.

But by allowing the mixing of his sexual agenda with his leaking of US war crimes and then allowing the tranny narrative to take precedence, he has trivialized the severity of that which he exposed.

It is no surprise that Obama pardoned this turncoat."

I think that this is a very biased statement. If murder for fun, free of charges, is trivialized, it is only because of a steady steam of atrocities, like those committed in Yemen while USA assists with "air refueling and targeting assistance", with the usual panoply of wedding (100+ dead), funerals (hundreds), schools, hospitals etc.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2017 20:30 utc | 14

@1 karlof1.. i have felt this way about bradley manning, who became chelsea - since day 1... not sure what greenwald is saying, but i agree with @8 OJS which you acknowledge as well.. thanks..

@3 bill person.. yeah, i have said that in the past too.. it's tough working around the elephant in the room.. maybe china is the new elephant, but the western msm hasn't been unplugged yet..

@4 ben.. on your topic - craig murray is always a good read..

someone shared a very good article on the topic of korea.. read if interested.. A Murderous History of Korea

Posted by: james | May 17 2017 20:45 utc | 15

@10 heroes.. i see now who @14 piotr is quoting.. i don't agree with you one bit..

Posted by: james | May 17 2017 22:33 utc | 16

@6 Karlofi 1 re the Chinese Space Program:

Only half in jest couple of years ago, I said that the world-wide 1% was sub-contracting the Space Program to China in order to find a way off the planet and away for the horrible mess they've created here.

I've seen articles recently - which unfortunately I cannot find again - about Silicon Valley Titans investing in space programs of their own, allegedly to Mars, so that they can whisk themselves away from the horrible mess that they've created here. It is well known that several (all?) of the top 1%ers in Silicon Valley have remote bolt holes - islands and the like - where they believe that they can escape if things go very wrong.

I say: good luck with that.

@10 heros: wow. That's pretty fugly thinking. Couldn't agree less.

Posted by: RUKidding | May 17 2017 22:48 utc | 17

Heros @10--

Thanks for making it very clear you are in no sense any reflection of your moniker.

james @15--

Along with the Cumings article is this one based on SK's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which gives greater force to Cumings longstanding scholarship,

Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2017 22:54 utc | 18

Heros @10,
sounds like a bunch o crap to me, 'standing up for your rights as an individual' is just as righteous as 'willing to take the rap so that the truth comes out'. The circumstances of her defense and incarceration make her look even stronger.
Chelsea Manning is a hero. I'm glad she's free and will enjoy this spring.

Posted by: sillybill | May 17 2017 22:55 utc | 19

Heros @ 10: I very much doubt that it was Bradley Manning's choice to mix his sexuality with the revelation of US war crimes in Iraq. The Western MSM did most of that, emphasising his change of gender over his actions and insinuating as a result that he was mentally unstable. Don't blame Manning over something he had no control over while he was in jail and which the media was obsessed with.

Posted by: Jen | May 17 2017 23:21 utc | 20

IMO we're watching a color revolution in Washington. Much as I dislike Trump, I have deep, deep reservations about the
consequences of a color revolution spearheaded by the intelligence

It appears that the old Latin American joke no longer applies:

Q. Why has there never been a coup in the United States?
A: Because there is no US embassy in Washington.

An embassy is no longer needed...

Posted by: JohnH | May 17 2017 23:21 utc | 21

Actually that Labour Manifesto is rather tame.
Nice that they have one, but...

Oh, and please don't feed the troll.

Posted by: smuks | May 17 2017 23:48 utc | 22

What Heros is saying, if I may... is that anything Manning utters in the public sphere from now on will be spun via the trasngender, isn't she great? angle. No matter what it is. It remains to be seen if her mind is intact, in an activist sense.

Posted by: sejomoje | May 18 2017 1:02 utc | 23

A startup in Montreal can simulate a human speaker with 60 seconds of voice. Wonder what the security services could do with more equipment then God ...

Posted by: daffyDuct | May 18 2017 1:28 utc | 24

@18 karlof1.. thanks. it seems that article touches on some of the same points.

@23 sejomoje.. that is generous.. i still don't see it.

john helmer has a couple of posts on the latest: 'trump/msm tempest in a teapot' story...

Posted by: james | May 18 2017 1:39 utc | 25

@12 john

well said! the absolute truth.

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 1:53 utc | 26

@23 sejomoje

flash! chelsea manning don't owe you one fucking dime.

we're all in her debt whether we admit it or not.

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 1:55 utc | 27

Interesting bit of reporting by Jenan Moussa on conditions inside Idlib. Sent three guys in to take cellphone vid (supposedly forbidden) then transmitted to Turkey for uploading. FSA non-existant, al Qaeda/Nusra everywhere. A real jihadi paradise.

Twitter thread (comments entertaining as well):

22 minutes YouTube Vid she produced (in Arabic - English subtitles):

Couple of random observations:

'Secret' Turkish crossing where Nusra can move freely between Turkey (refugee camp as cover) and Syria, apparently with full knowledge and consent of Turkey.

FSA mostly non-existent - rounded up by Nusra if discovered. Nusra runs everything and controls the shots in most of Idlib. Couldn't exist without consent, arms and support of Turkey.

Reports that there are 10,000 - 20,000 Chinese Uyghur mercs (& family?) in Idlib. Hard to say if accurate, but China has always been vary worried that they will eventually return. Always wondered when China would do something, but they don't seem to want to get involved at all. I guess they'll just wait until Uyghur 'come back home' to China for a little jihad. Strange.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 2:53 utc | 28

Seems odd. Suspicious, no? - the timing of - the horrific revelation of the disgusting "Collateral Damage" video as exposed by B. Manning soon becoming overshadowed and overwhelmed by the unfolding event of B. Manning becomes C. Manning.

The CIA couldn't have stage-managed it better. Completely switched the focus. Completely changed the narrative and the entire plot of the story. Just - Like - That!

Posted by: fast freddy | May 18 2017 3:04 utc | 29

Hello! I could have sworn I’ve visited this website before but
after going through a few of the posts I realized it’s new to me.
Anyways, I’m definitely happy I stumbled upon it and I’ll be book-marking it and checking back often!

Posted by: raju | May 18 2017 3:37 utc | 30

jfl! Absolutely. I know I don't opine here much but I absolutely agree! Don't get me wrong.

We all know that in the sea of conscripted(semi-conscripted) Americans, over decades, literally a handful have rowed against the wind.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. (If only)

Posted by: sejomoje | May 18 2017 3:45 utc | 31

The CIA-Uyghur stuff is finally coming out. I figured it'd be heinous and inextricably linked to a current op, I mean a blind man could see it. Hopefully they'll wise up quicker than the Kurds have and not let Uncle Scum onto the actual Chinese border but I guess that's likely already happened, though solidly in the future news category at this point.

Posted by: sejomoje | May 18 2017 3:50 utc | 32

@28 paveway.. the lady has a lot of balls.. it's a really informative 22' video. thanks..

Posted by: james | May 18 2017 4:24 utc | 33

Whilst I acknowledge it is hardly de rigeur at MoA to quote from that bastion of neoliberalism, the englander guardian, I thought that some other habitues who cannot bring themselves to wade through the fishwrap's distortions and blatant blackmail of those seeking to make a difference, might be interested in this article Brazil: explosive recordings implicate President Michel Temer in bribery
In a nutshell Temer who led the charge on the impeachment of former Brazilian president Dilma Rousseff for allegedly accepting bribes from Petrobas the state owned oil enterprise, has been recorded negotiating for a $160,000 a week payoff from . . . you guessed it, Petrobas.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 4:34 utc | 34

IIRC there was at least two years space between the release of the 'collateral murder' video and Ms Manning's announcement of her transgender status. She didn't say anything about the latter until after her unjust conviction.
IMO those who seek to conflate these two vastly different & temporally separated issues are either dingbats who believe that all human beings who take action must be inhumanly perfect, or agents of the PTB seeking to implant phoney memes in an already too disorganised resistance.
Whichever category those who seek to play up this non-issue in here are is irrelevant, neither are worth the energy of engagement.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 4:48 utc | 35

This is red flag. It shows that "Justice Democrats"‏ are not to be trusted: This is what @justicedems tweeted:

DNC lawsuit outcome doesn't change fact that DNC will just maneuver their way around to maintain power. 11:26 PM - 13 May 2017

I (@RepPress) retweeted these three replies:

I really don't care for your dismissive tone of this lawsuit. It's everything. The outcome matters. If DNC is found guilty of fraud?? @dwntwnsean Replying to @justicedems

What did you mean in this tweet, Justice Dems? You're not covering #DNCFraudLawsuit because they'll just stay corrupt anyway? WTF? @caitoz Replying to @justicedems

.@justicedems take on #dncfraudlawsuit is even more slimy than I expected
"Outcome is moot bc Dems will find new ways to be corrupt anyway" @zachhaller Replying to @justicedems

Posted by: Tom Murphy | May 18 2017 5:07 utc | 36

@28 paveway

yes, indeed. thanks for that link.

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 6:38 utc | 37

RT excellent show Watching The Hawks - Chelsea Manning free at last & Doing Time Like a Spy (E483).

Posted by: OJS | May 18 2017 6:47 utc | 38
State Dept Is Working To ID Erdogan Bodyguards Who Beat Up Protesters In DC

Blood boiling vid right here...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 18 2017 6:52 utc | 39

@39 $cam

the rump's new best friends. given free-rein as a show of 'respect' for godfather recep tayyip.

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 7:03 utc | 40

John Helmer's latest on Canada's Banderite Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland's compulsive lying about conversations she's never had...

Chrystia Freeland Exposed By Sergei Lavrov At Arctic Council. Drops 'Canadian Democracy Destabilization' Charge Against Russia

PS Freeland was just in Washington DC. While there she met a friend...

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 18 2017 7:15 utc | 41

Chilling interview with Dutchman Ronald Bernard, former senior currency trader and asset manager, about his "career" and how it ended

Posted by: Headache | May 18 2017 7:23 utc | 42

@ Paveway 28

Very good/interesting videos. Was watching them a couple days ago. I think she said it was FSA or moderate rebels that she had contact with that did the filming?

Posted by: Peter AU | May 18 2017 8:45 utc | 43

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 17, 2017 10:53:39 PM | 28

Yep. The US plus Russia could force Turkey to stop this. Which is probably where Donald Trump's problems stem from.

Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 9:39 utc | 44

@44 sb

i think that's connecting the dots. meanwhile rce's boys are beating up americans on the white house lawn and the cops are just watching. if it's following orders from the civilians or the senior spooks they're with the spooks.

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 10:04 utc | 45

There is an interesting age gap in Russia's favorability

I am not sure Democrats have thought their anti Russia strategy through.

Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 11:22 utc | 46

Elite banker blows whistle: 8,500 Satanists run the financial-business world and control politicians, police, judges etc via blackmail:

Posted by: Anoncommentator | May 18 2017 11:34 utc | 47

@42 headache and @47 anonc

are the same bizarre story

Posted by: jfl | May 18 2017 11:52 utc | 48

Currency traders are the shitkickers at the bottom of the heap. They are the blokes casually thrown to the wolves when a bank is caught doing the usual bank stuff. They operate under orders and are about as far from the decision makers as a road sweeper is from the mayor's office. This Ronald bloke wouldn't have clue about who is up who and who pays the rent among the banking elite. Satanists eh - farcical might as well claim they are reptiles from Mars too - take yer pills Ronald.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 13:01 utc | 49

Trump: "Such groups [DAESH and PKK] will "have no safe quarter," Trump said in the White House"

Erdogan: "If there is any sort of attack from the YPG and PYD against Turkey, we will implement the rules of engagement without asking anyone,”

Me: prepare for false flag attacks to facilitate Turkey's killing spree!!

Posted by: AtaBrit | May 18 2017 13:02 utc | 50

@ben | 4
It is a fantastic manifesto which truly sets long-term difficult to achieve but eminently laudable goals... But, I fear that before such a platfoem can win an election the middle class must suffer yet further impoverishment; the aspirationals must understand that elitism is not an'open to anyone' club and the general public must learn that consumerism is not the means to self-worth!

Having said that, Go Jeremy!!

Posted by: AtaBrit | May 18 2017 13:16 utc | 51

Peter AU@43 - "I think she said it was FSA or moderate rebels that she had contact with that did the filming?"

I didn't catch that - could be. My impression was that she just got three guys willing to do it. Makes sense if they were FSA - why would anyone else risk their life to show Nusra influence in Idlib? Of course, a couple of cartons of good smokes goes a looong way in some parts of Syria, so it could have just been three random guys.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 13:24 utc | 52

@Paveway 28

Thanks for the link, very interesting, if impossible to verify.

Seems pressure on Turkey is mounting - 'Which side are you on?' - as evidenced by the highly mediatized protests in D.C., the row over German troops in Incirlik and the Turkish threats to immediately react to any YPG/J provocations.

If Ankara honours the Astana agreement (which I think it will), it has to cut the Nusra supply lines for real this time. Which would pretty much spell the end of the Neocon/ Saudi sponsored war in Syria - no wonder a certain senator is fuming... Somehow a renewed wave of 'terrorist attacks' in Turkish cities in the near future wouldn't surprise me. Poor folks!

Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 13:27 utc | 53

somebody@46 - The most interesting thing about that poll to me isn't the age gap. It's the fact that they even reported Israel's anti-Russian bias AT ALL. At 77% unfavorable, they are the country that has the most unfavorable opinion of Russia out of all countries in the poll.

This has to be the most widely-kept secret in western media. NOBODY is calling out Israeli influence on the demonization of Russian in the U.S., and few are even aware of Israeli's rabid anti-Russian stance. Not sure if it's fallout from the Russian-Jewish-Soros mobster wars or the soon-to-be natural gas war. Maybe both. I don't think Russia's support of Assad is a primary reason, but they're plenty pissed about that.

Us tin-foil-hat-tards can draw a very short line between ALL U.S. anti-Russian sentiment and Israel, and that line runs directly through our MSM. Most Americans have no idea why they're suppose to hate Russia, they just know that they should.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 13:42 utc | 54

Brazil - this could get kind of relevant:
Markets in turmoil, currency loses 6%, stock market 10%.

It's important to understand that Dilma Rousseff was ousted not for corruption, but for fudging some official figures - something that every government in the world does. The real reason (very probably) was that she refused to end the 'Carwash' investigation, i.e. that she fought *against corruption*.
Unfortunately, many in her own party are just as much part of that 'swamp' as her opponents, and she failed to watch her back and make sure she had sufficient support.

When it became clear that her time was up, 'hot/ speculative money' started pouring into the country, with the currency and stock market posting huge gains. Which was very obviously a temporary, unsustainable ponzi, the end of which we are (probably) seeing now.

In short: Thanks to Temer, the country is being plundered once again by international capital.
Boom (inflow) - Bust (crash & outflow) - Pillage (all assets bought cheaply with $$$)

Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 13:46 utc | 55

smuks@53 - Like any reporting that comes out of the Middle East, you have to take it with a grain of salt. But her reports make sense - the FSA doesn't really exist anymore despite American cries to the contrary. Everyone lies about everything in Syria. That said, I'll take Jenan Moussa's word over Wolf Blitzer's any day.

Regarding Turkey, I can't even guess what they're thinking on any given day much less what they will actually end up doing. The U.S./Saudi/Israeli desire to see Erdogan 'regime-changed' never went away. I think ISIS will be re-purposed by its masters to throw Turkey into more chaos. No good will come of that. I hope the EU is ready for another million or so refugees.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 13:54 utc | 56

So all of youse who prefer their Occam's razor dull, did Roger Ailes kark it due to natural causes (ie the omnipotent sky pilot had enough of his rapey ways) or did that ancient ocker Rupert Murdoch, decide to have him knocked because Ailes knew where too many bodies were buried?

Good riddance to bad rubbish I say.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 18 2017 13:58 utc | 57

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18, 2017 9:42:02 AM | 54

I think it is Russia's de facto alliance with Iran and Hezbollah. It is probably also historic as the Soviet Union used to support Arab adversaries to Israel.

It is also possible that Russians who emigrated to Israel do not have fond memories to their country of origin.

Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 14:05 utc | 58

somebody@58 - All good reasons. The underlying cause is subject to debate, but that (to me) is kind of peripheral. I'm a lot more concerned about the effect: Israel's ability to so easily use American thuggery for some hair-brained "Destruction of Russia" scheme.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 14:16 utc | 59

@Paveway 54
Comparing the two countries' sizes and power bases, I'd suggest the dog still wags its tail, not v.v.

The US depends on Israel serving as its 'unsinkable aircraft carrier' to control the ME, so Tel Aviv can act with impunity in pursuing its own regional goals. Israelis know that this luxury will end pretty soon, with Russia/ China taking over regional hegemony from the US. They're not happy about it, surprise surprise.

Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 14:19 utc | 60

@Paveway 56
My impression is that very few people still believe in the existence of 'moderate rebels' (in relevant number). But as you say, reports & videos coming from whatever side can't be treated as 'facts'.

Erdogan's main fear is the emergence of a Kurdish state along his southern border, so he'll cooperate with whoever seems most likely able to prevent that. It used to be ISIS, now it's the SAA & allies. Actually imv he's not so much unpredictable as he's independent in his decisions, something the Neocons/ Saudis apparently don't appreciate very much.
There seems to be some deal with Europe: Within Turkey's borders, he can do as he pleases, as long as he holds back most refugees/ takes back those arriving in Greece. So far I see no reason why this should change.

Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 15:07 utc | 61

@43 peterau @52 paveway... indeed it seems the free syrian army were responsible for that video from the point of view, the lady was quite focused on how what was once ( she thought ) a homespun uprising, has been hijacked by chinese - turkistanis, saudis and etc. etc. - nusra/al qaeda.. she seemed pissed about how they have come with a very different idea of liberating syria.. i think the lady is syrian and working inside syria. i could be wrong, but in the comments section one can read - if they use a translator, how she has pissed off a lot of nutjobs for saying what she is saying. bottom line - yes, peter au is correct in his view on this probably being an fsa product..

@46 somebody @54 paveway.. yeah - that is what i picked up too - israel has the highest negative rating towards russia.. of course in the west russia has been demonized the past however many years.. that will be reflected in the pew research info..

i agree with @60 smuks.. this is going to end sooner or later..

Posted by: james | May 18 2017 15:36 utc | 62

Sputniknews is reporting a coalition strike on the SAA near Tanif.

Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 17:40 utc | 63

Seems evident SOuthern Syria is going to be invaded by the 'coalition'
not really a coalition but the USA and its affiliate anti-syrian forces from Jordan.

I think the military planners think that Russia will be disabled from reacting militarily from American aggression, just as with Israel.

Will they be correct?

Posted by: aaaa | May 18 2017 17:52 utc | 64

Sputniknews is also reporting that the alleged strike occufed in one of the de-confliction zones agreed to by Russia/Iran/Turkey/. So, yet again the US finds the most hauling way to put a cigarette out in Russia's eye. Hopefully Russia will shut down the memorandum of understanding hotline again.

Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 18:12 utc | 65


Opera mini browser has updated itself right out of posting in forums like this. The post/preview buttons appear right in the middle of the text field, just as small as they can make them.

Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 18:21 utc | 66

@63 wwinsti.. thanks for the update.. peter au was discussing this location a few days ago here at moa and the importance of it for the usa and that it is inside syria.. the invaders have arrived.. i honestly think this is also why they are so down on trump.. he isn't rubber stamping israel/saudi regime change, divying up syria agenda.. thus trump must go.. here is what amn is saying

The U.S. Coalition warplane entered Syrian airspace from the Jordanian border
A convoy of five T-62 tanks were hit by the U.S. Coalition
Two tanks were destroyed
A Shilka was damaged
Six military personnel were killed and another three were wounded
Convoy consisted of soldiers from the Syrian Arab Army (SAA), National Defense Forces (NDF), Hezbollah, and Imam Al-‘Ali Battalions

at amn they are also mentioning usa bombing syrian army in east sweida..

"A U.S. Coalition jet allegedly attacked the Syrian Army’s positions near the Rasi’i Well after the latter advanced more than 35km into rebel-held territory near the Jordanian border.

According to a military source in Damascus, the US Coalition carried out a “warning” strike, which was meant to deter the Syrian government forces from advancing further into rebel-held territory; however, this has not been confirmed by the Syrian Army’s High Command."

Posted by: james | May 18 2017 18:31 utc | 67

Al-Masdar News reports this: "According to a military source in Damascus, the US Coalition carried out a “warning” strike, which was meant to deter the Syrian government forces from advancing further into rebel-held territory; however, this has not been confirmed by the Syrian Army’s High Command."

IMO, such an attack will prompt Syria to increase its rate of advance while increasing its readiness to attack any intruding aircraft. The French have admitted being active recently, so perhaps it was one of their planes.

SANA reports on a meeting between Iraq's National Security Advisor and President Assad regarding the coordination of efforts to secure their borders: "any achievement accomplished by the Syrian and Iraqi armies in combating terrorism constitutes an important step towards restoring security and stability to both countries, because the enemy is common and their battle is one against the schemes that are aimed at weakening and dividing the countries of the region through the tools represented by the terrorist organizations. [My Emphasis]

IMO, Iraqi and Syrian resolve to win the war against the takfiris and their sponsors is higher than ever. I fully expect Iraqi military forces to be invited onto Syrian territory.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 18:40 utc | 68

Add to my 68--

Southfront says this in its report: "It is believed that the US is [g]oing [sic] to use the Shiite militias issue as a pretext to stop the advance of the SAA in the area. The US-led block is working to isolate Syria from Iraq by land, supporting the Israeli desire to prevent Iran from transferring weapons to Hezbollah in Syria via Iraq."

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 18:52 utc | 69

"... US-led coalition carried out airstrikes against a Syrian Arab Army (SAA) convoy advancing along the Al-Tanf-Damascus-Baghdad international road. The airstrikes targeted Syrian forces in Al-Shuhaimi area, 50 km from the town of Al-Tanf located at the Syrian-Iraqi border.

The airstrikes destroyed two battle tanks, and damaged a Shilka vehicle, several pickups and trucks. Six SAA fighters lost their life and 3 were injured.

According to some US defense official, cited by the Russian state-run news agency Sputink, the US coalition commander considered the Syrian army as a threat to coalition troops. ..."

Russia is already cowering away with "Russia 'Attempted to Dissuade' Syrian Army From At Tanf Before Coalition Strikes".

Instead of saying it's an illegal act of war, the US has no business there so far from home and it's a clear violation of Syria's sovereignity.

Imagine the following would occur in the US:
"... Syian-led coalition carried out airstrikes against a United States Army (USA) convoy advancing along the Texas international road. The airstrikes targeted American forces in Austin area, 50 km from the city of Houston.

The airstrikes destroyed two battle tanks, and damaged a Bradley vehicle, several pickups and trucks. Six USA fighters lost their life and 3 were injured.

According to some Syrian defense official, cited by the Russian state-run news agency Sputink, the Syrian coalition commander considered the American army as a threat to Syrian troops. ..."

Posted by: xor | May 18 2017 18:55 utc | 70

xor @70--

Must admit the Russian position is puzzling and worrisome. US/UK and its takfiris are the invading forces that ought to be repelled so Syria's territorial integrity can be restored--a goal Putin announced upon Russia's initial intervention. Syria says al-Tanf is occupied by Daesh. IMO, Russia's actions here could cause it to lose quite a bit of face and credibility. As I said above, IMO Syria must continue its advance and provoke a crisis if that's what results as the time for playing any further shadow games is now over.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 19:05 utc | 71

I've been highly critical of Putin in the past, so allow me to play devil's advocate a little here.

Russia recently announced it would be increasing the number of long range air defense systems in Syria. Is it possible for these alleged attacks by the coalition to be a sort of last "horrah" before the curtin finally closes on overflight access by the US?

Posted by: wwinsti | May 18 2017 20:02 utc | 72

@70 xor... turning the story upside down at the bottom of your post really highlights how fucked up usa foreign invasion policy is, doesn't it?

@72 wwinsti.. i somehow doubt it.. i think saudi/israel/usa and gang are going to ramp up here in all areas of syria with syrian forces outstretched.. at the same time they are working to neutralize any idea of trump interfering with their warmongering, land grabbing, murderous ways... that seems to be the game plan at this point.. i am not sure what russia/iran/syria and company do at this point, but the possibilities are disturbing... since when was the usa given a un sanction to bomb syrian troops and hardware? isis - yes... syrian forces - no... i suspect china will also get involved once they realize their turkistani friends are also heavily involved, as witnessed in that video @28... looks bad on all fronts at this point.. this is not the same as the supposed accidental bombing of syrian troops in diez ezzor, in the past year..

Posted by: james | May 18 2017 20:18 utc | 73

Recent news about Seth Rich's death seems to have made its way onto the Mainstream Corporate Media coverage, but mainly to let them shoot it down. Here's Google search link.

I can't imagine this will be allowed to gain traction.


Posted by: jawbone | May 18 2017 20:28 utc | 74

Outlaw US Empire is using the fact that the region's part of a deconfliction zone to legitimize its attack, which is bullshit. The Empire is NOT a partner of the deconfliction zones, and its presence on Syrian territory constitutes an invasion since it was never invited. As Garrie at The Duran put it: "A crime and a blunder" likely made by the local commander, not Trump as some are writing. All I seem to read most places is spin. Maybe when the sun rises on the other side of the planet we'll get something from the top of Russia's chain of command.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 20:36 utc | 75

The auto driven into crowd in Times Square has been determined a Driving While Intoxicated accident.

This article notes the vastly greater number of US lives lost to alcohol related accidents than to terrorism. So, naturally, this event will get some coverage due to its location, Times Square, but it won't last all that long.

Posted by: jawbone | May 18 2017 20:51 utc | 76

Say it can't be so!!

Article has good list of reasons why progressives would help to prevent any confirmation of Lieberman as FBI director.

It struck me that he was being proposed simply to get Dem votes -- but, article notes he works in firm with Trump's personal lawyer and Trump bonded with him. So, did Ol' Joe swear the loyalty oath to Trump, if there was one to be sworn to?

Posted by: jawbone | May 18 2017 20:58 utc | 77

RT has some very laid back reporting

The issue of establishing and expanding the de-escalation zones dominated discussions between Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and US President Donald Trump at the White House last week. "At the center of our conversation was the initiative which President Trump voiced at an early stage of his presidency, namely the creation of security zones or zones of de-escalation, in which there will be no fighting, except against the terrorists, who need to be expelled from there," Lavrov said.

Posted by: somebody | May 18 2017 21:02 utc | 78

@75 karlof1... but i do believe the usa is a part of the deconfliction zone agreement as @78 somebody seems to point out and from what i recall.. i think what has to be established here is what was the motive for bombing the syrian army, especially if they weren't attacking anyone? i believe the parties have the right to attack isis/al qaeda/ and etc, but not the syrian army! that is the part that is definitely wrong here.. waiting to hear more on this and to see how russia responds..

Posted by: james | May 18 2017 21:49 utc | 79


"I guess they'll just wait until Uyghur 'come back home' to China for a little jihad. Strange."

That's one possible explanation.

Another explanation is that China is footing much of the arms and ammo bill for SAA to kill the Chinese roaches, and many other roaches too. A partnership needn't be perfectly symmetrical.

Posted by: Quadriad | May 18 2017 21:57 utc | 80

yeah, typical Putinism to allow Syrians to wander off and get killed. They did the same shit in a disastrous campaign to Raqqa, which probably resulted in Palmyra being re-invaded by ISIL

Posted by: aaaa | May 18 2017 22:16 utc | 81

US is saying al Tanf is part of a de-escalation/de-confliction zone but it it well outside the zones on any map I have seen.
De-confliction zone in the south is right down in the Jordan/Israel corner.

Posted by: Peter AU | May 18 2017 22:20 utc | 82

james @78--

Outlaw US Empire is not a party to the de-escalation and safe zone agreement made at Astana, although it was allowed to gain approval of the UNSC (don't know if it voted yea or abstained), but that still doesn't make it a party/governed by it. Furthermore, it has zero justification to be on Syrian territory, its presence there constituting an invasion, act of war, and thus the Ultimate Crime of waging Aggressive War. Here's the relevant document issued by Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs,

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 23:06 utc | 83

Sounds rather worrying, but I'm somewhat with wwinsti @72 since the same has happened before, with both the Turkish downing of the Su-24 and April's cruise missile attack leading to an improvement of air defences. The coalition (this wasn't necessarily a US plane, in fact I doubt it) has no justification whatsoever for the attack. So imv this may well have been another one-off thing, and it could even paradoxically benefit Damascus & allies (same as the cases mentioned above, or the Hasakah skirmish).

Anyhow it's far too early to tell, we have to wait at least a day or two before jumping to any conclusions.
But I'm curious how that visit to Riyadh will work out...

Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 23:13 utc | 84

Peter AU @82--

As per Russian Foreign Ministry: "The Guarantors shall take steps to complete by 4 June 2017 the preparation of the maps of the de-escalation areas and security zones and to separate the armed opposition groups from the terrorist groups mentioned in para.5 of the Memorandum."

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 23:16 utc | 85

re Russia - Putin wants neither any uncontrollable escalation, nor to get sucked in too deep, so the reaction makes perfect sense to me. After all it's Damascus' war, not Moscow's.

Remember that in modern (media) warfare, he who attacks first loses the game:
He is seen as the 'aggressor', and his actions justify whatever reaction the other side decides to show.
Wait & see who'll win this round.

Posted by: smuks | May 18 2017 23:24 utc | 86

Peter AU@82 - As always, us tin-foil-hat-nutters always have our own special interpretation of the importance of At Tanf:

Might have to consider replacing the Deir EzZor route of Kirkuk-Haifa v2.0 with Ar Raqqa or Al Bukamal. The U.S. efforts to assist ISIS against the SAA have failed there. Of course, many others here will insist "It's not about any pipelines!"

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 18 2017 23:26 utc | 87

How's this for BS Spin: "US Forces Defend 'De-Escalation Zone' in Syria"!

After reviewing the several articles published by RT and Sputnik aboutr this crime, I've yet to see a direct quote from a Russian official that Syria was told to not proceed to At-Tanf--only words from Outlaw Empire sources saying such.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 18 2017 23:35 utc | 88

>>>> karlof1 | May 18, 2017 3:05:34 PM | 71

Must admit the Russian position is puzzling and worrisome.

Not really. The United States military is vastly more powerful than the Russian one so if Putin strikes back, the Americans could do enough damage to severely disrupt the various campaigns in Syria. Instead, Putin's best option is to proceed with his plans for liquidating ISIS and containing the other terrorist groups until the Americans get bored and go off and start another war elsewhere.

There were two interesting points that haven't been mentioned here so far.

1. The SAA/militia units were about 50-60 kms. from the alleged US/UK positions which suggests to me that this was nothing to do with any threat to US or UK forces but either the Jordanians (it was a Jordanian aircraft) playing silly buggers at the behest of the Saudi scumbags because of the Trump conference today or perhaps one Jordanian pilot thinking he had to do jihad in Syria. I'm not so sure the Americans wanted this to happen but they're not going to admit that the Jordanians are out of control.

2. The leader of the terrorist New Syrian Army announced that it was their intention to capture Deir Ez-zor from the Syrian government so good luck with that and does he really expect his US/UK "advisers" to go there with him and fight alongside ISIS?

This should demonstrate to the morons in Washington and London how stupid it is to have any of the dumb Arab monarchs on their side and how dangerous using jihadists as proxies is particularly as the U.S. military are requesting another 50,000 U.S. troops for Afghanistan and if that happens it suggests to me that May/Johnson/Fallon will be sending a substantial number of British troops to Afghanistan after the election - when I say substantial I mean in proportion to the number of ground troops available to the British Army (~88,000)

Posted by: Ghostship | May 19 2017 0:34 utc | 89

karlof1 85

Russia MoD and most media have been putting out maps with shaded zones. I would geuss these were the areas discussed at Astana with exact boundaries with GPS co-ord's, landmarks ect still to be mapped.
At Tanf is a long way out of the southern shaded zone, so may not have been discussed at Astana?

Posted by: Peter AU | May 19 2017 1:03 utc | 90

Re: Posted by: jawbone | May 18, 2017 4:28:52 PM | 74

If Trump picks LIARMAN to lead the FBI it certainly won't go anywhere.

Picking LIARMAN would be a huge mistake but it would serve as one thing. Absolute proof Trump has sold out to the Clinton Crime Family.

Here's Lieberman endorsing Clinton for President in 2016, instead of Trump!

Lieberman supports Clinton after flirting with backing Trump

Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) on Wednesday backed Hillary Clinton for president, after flirting with the possibility of supporting Donald Trump.

Lieberman told Fox Business he would vote for Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee, in November.

He had left open the possibility of supporting Trump, the GOP nominee, in recent days.

"I'm one of those people, and there are a lot of us, who don't quite feel comfortable either way yet," Lieberman said on Fox News last week.

Lieberman, a longtime Democratic senator, was Al Gore's running mate in 2000 on the party's presidential ticket. He lost his primary to Ned Lamont in 2006 but ran as an Independent and won the general election.

I must admit, I am hanging on the possibility this is either FAKE NEWS, or a Trump switcheroo before picking someone else.

If he holds off on the pick until after his foreign trip he can tell the Israelis he is seriously considering Lieberman - which I'm sure they'll like, which may help him in any negotiations with them.

Posted by: Julian | May 19 2017 1:06 utc | 91

this is a much more informative thread than the 'special council' one. thanks to all for the information, especially with respect to the 'coalition' attack on the saa on the 'al Tanf' road. should have come here first.

Posted by: jfl | May 19 2017 1:59 utc | 92


MoA remember Laura Poitras accompany Glen Greenwald meet up with Ed Snowden in Hong Kong, later filming in Moscow?

In an op-ed at Newsweek, legal representatives of the anti-secrecy organization Wikileaks have accused filmmaker Laura Poitras of using material in her new film in a way that puts WikiLeaks and its staff at legal risk.

Poitras’ film, aptly titled “Risk,” is something of a character study of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, but the organization’s attorneys say Poitras violated agreements regarding the film’s editing process and the use of certain footage of WikiLeaks staff......

Posted by: OJS | May 19 2017 3:03 utc | 93

Magnier is back on line after an absence of 8-9 days. Has a run of tweets on al Tanf - worth reading - and will be putting out an article tomorrow, hopefully in English as machine translation from Arabic is terrible.
Magniers twitter acc here...

Posted by: Peter AU | May 19 2017 5:26 utc | 94

Paveway 87

You are most likely correct, though I think it would be smarter for US to take more control of Iraq and run a pipeline up through US controlled Barzani country into Turkey.
US establishment dreams going to crap in Syria with the Russian entrance into the games, McCarthyism in full swing in the US, the US establishment, are no doubt desperate to wean Europe off Russian gas and onto US controlled Qatari gas. Was many, sometimes overlapping reasons for the so called friends of Syria to try and destroy the country, but now it may well boil down to - for US - trying to wean Europe off Russian gas.

Posted by: Peter AU | May 19 2017 7:54 utc | 95

Breaking: Sweden drops case for Assange, is he a free man now or will UK arrest him and send him to th the US?

Sweden have made a fool of themselves by hunting this individual - for nothing, this is a scandal of big proportions.

Posted by: Anon | May 19 2017 9:30 utc | 96

ref Assange
UK police says he will be arrested if he leaves the embassy
the sun ray did not last long

Posted by: Mina | May 19 2017 9:52 utc | 97 [live]

Meanwhile, London’s Metropolitan Police have announced that Assange will still be arrested if he leaves the embassy.

“Now that the situation has changed and the Swedish authorities have discontinued their investigation into that matter, Mr Assange remains wanted for a much less serious offence,” it wrote in a statement.

Assange is wanted by Britain for skipping bail when he fled to the Ecuadorian Embassy in 2012.

Posted by: x | May 19 2017 10:03 utc | 98

So it seems that Julian Assange's description one of the CIA actions as " a historic act of devastating incompetence" is absolutely spot on.
Today's NYT features an article Killing C.I.A. Informants, China Crippled U.S. Spying Operations.
Setting aside for a moment the jaw dropping arrogance the NYT displays in casting China's defense of it society from aggressive espionage as a form of aggression, we do need to ask ourselves why the NYT arm of the deep state propaganda machine is publishing this right now. This is an official release - apparently a dozen current and former CIA/FBI 'officials' talked to the NYT about this massive fail (as usual under condition of anonymity - the the race will be on as to whose 'tell all' reaches the printer first)
The two most obvious motives (A) that it is a piss weak attempt to gazump a wikileaks revelation right before Assange releases it or,

(B)The gang has a strategy in place to grab the perceived mole and need to prepare the public for a show trial
seem to be the most likely reasons for pushing this story out now at a time when the trumpet is the perp most in Homeland Security sights.

Diverting focus away from evil Russia into evil China doesn't appear to be a sound tactic.

There is no upside to the story the NYT have published , in theory they could be letting it out now while no one is watching except it is a massive FAIL by CIA with no redeeming counter plot and 5 years is a pretty short period of time in espionage hanging on to secrets time, so if that were the motivator it doesn't really make sense.
The NYT article all but names the alleged mole towards the end of the article, so his identity will be established by less 'august' journals within a week IMO.
Since the asian nation this fellow has retired to is unlikely to be north korea, maybe the release is part of an attempt to pressure the government of his host nation. We shall see.
One last query - given that it took two years for the Chinese security services to roll up the amerikan network (presumably it took time for them to gather the proof of each traitor's guilt, present it to China's judiciary and be advised of the sentence) why did the CIA sit on its ass instead of grabbing their employees and protecting them?

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 21 2017 5:40 utc | 99
no black detective in your kids' books

Posted by: Mina | May 21 2017 9:13 utc | 100

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