Ukraine - Coup Government Tries To Sabotage U.S.-Russia Rapprochement
Updated below
Fighting in east Ukraine has restarted. This is an attempt by "deep state" forces to prevent any rapprochement between the U.S. and Russia under the new Trump administration.
The west-Ukrainian forces under command of the coup government of President Poroshenko started a large attack against the Russian supported Ukrainian self-defense forces in Donetsk and Lugansk governate.
A ceasefire arranged after the Minsk II agreement provided for demilitarized zones along a line of separation. The Ukrainian government has so far avoided to fulfill the Minsk II agreement that would allow a reuniting of the country. An OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM), which includes officers from NATO countries as well as Russia, is supervising the ceasefire and issues daily reports.
On January 26 the SMM reported:
The SMM recorded more ceasefire violations [1] in Donetsk region, including about 420 explosions, compared with 228 in the previous reporting period. More than 160 explosions were recorded around the Svitlodarsk area, with exchanges of fire also recorded around Avdiivka and Yasynuvata.
...
The Mission revisited a Ukrainian Armed Forces permanent storage site, whose location corresponded with the relevant withdrawal lines and observed that 12 tanks (T-64) and four mortars (2B9 Vasilek, 82mm) were missing, as previously noted.
...
The SMM followed up on reports of a blockade of a railway track near government-controlled Hirske. The railway leads towards the “LPR”-controlled settlements of Donetskyi and Sentianivka (formerly Frunze) (49 and 44km west of Luhansk, respectively). The Mission had observed a train travelling east through Donetskyi on 23 January. The SMM observed that the tracks had been blocked by tree trunks under a bridge on the southern edge of the settlement. About 20 unarmed men wearing camouflage clothing told the Mission that they were veterans from former volunteer battalions. The SMM observed a tent near the blockade site.
The observations on the 26th pointed to the preparation of a full attack which was launched on January 28:
The SMM recorded fewer ceasefire violations in Donetsk region between the evenings of 27 and 28 January compared with the previous reporting period (including about 330 explosions compared with about 520).[1] In the following 24 hours, however, the SMM recorded over 2,300 explosions, primarily in the Avdiivka-Yasynuvata-Donetsk airport area.
The SMM observed that the intense artillery barrage was launched north to south originating from the government held area.
The NAZI volunteer battalions from west-Ukrainian Galicia are spearheading the attack. There is ongoing fighting with intense artillery usage on several points along the ceasefire line (map). One main battle ground is the city of Avdeevka in the demilitarized zone north-west of Donetzk city.
The U.S. government propaganda site RFERL sees a "creeping offensive" initiated by the government side. Even the belligerent and anti-Russian Washington Post editors have to acknowledge that the Ukrainian government started this round. While unreasonably blaming Russia they observes:
Ukrainian commanders acknowledge that in recent weeks their forces had moved some positions forward in the no-man’s land between the front lines.
During the last two years the Ukrainian army experienced a massive build up. New equipment came in from the U.S. and other NATO countries and U.S. training missions tried to teach some basic fighting tactics. But while the newly conscripted 250,000 men army looks big on paper it still lacks any coherence and will to fight for the coup government and its U.S. overlords. Only the NAZI "volunteer battalions" have some fighting spirit but they are up against people defending their immediate homes. Any large offense from the government side will thus fail.
The fight was planned and started just after the inauguration of the new U.S. president Trump. Trump has acknowledged that Crimea is part of Russia as its population is overwhelmingly Russian. He has announced to seek good relations with Moscow. He will likely eliminate sanctions against Russia.
For the Ukrainian coup government and its neo-conservative supporters this marks the end of their dreams. If it loses U.S. and NATO support the Ukraine must declare bankruptcy, the government will be kicked out and the country will, over time, move naturally back into the Russian sphere.
To prevent that Poroshenko was ordered to launch a new attack while blaming Russia. He did as his mentors told him and traveled to Berlin in the hope of German support. But such is not coming. The German government let it know that it sees through his games and has no interest in them. The government friendly daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung "leaked" (translated here) that Berlin knows that Poroshenko started the fight to influence Trump and to prevent any sanction relief for Russia. But Berlin believes that the gimmick will fail and Merkel fears that Poroshenko will end up losing another round of the war while Russia will still get the better relations it seeks.
One would hope so. There is nothing to win for western-Europe, or anyone else, in another fight with Russia.
Neither the Trump administration nor the EU has blamed any side for relaunching the conflict. The civil NATO head Stoltenberg stayed within the official line blaming neither side. That surely is not to Poroshenko's favor.
The massive buildup of U.S. and NATO troops along the Russian border as well as the renewed fighting in Ukraine are part of the imperial plan initiated under Obama to squeeze Russia into a minor global role. It is an extremely dangerous endeavor. Russian history shows that it will not allow such. Trump will hopefully reverse the Obama plans and, as far as one can currently tell, seeks to arrange friendly cooperation with Russia wherever feasible.
The destination of the last official foreign visit of former Vice President Biden was Ukraine. The World War III promoting Senator McCain visited Kiev on New Years eve. Both were heavily involved in the earlier coup against the constitutional Ukrainian government. Biden's son is involved in natural gas business in Ukraine. Did they leave directives or suggestions?
The current attempts in Ukraine to sabotage a U.S. Russian rapprochement will probably not be the only ones. Some "accident" in the Baltic or "mistake" in Syria could surely be arranged by "deep state" rogue force. If such happens nether side should fall for it.
Update:
Politico wrote about the John McCain / Lindsey Graham New Year visit to Ukraine a month ago. Notice what they said:
“I admire the fact that you will fight for your homeland,” Graham told Ukraine’s 36th Separate Marine Brigade in the town of Shyrokyne, about four kilometers from the line of contact, according to a video released Monday by the Ukrainian presidency.“Your fight is our fight,” Graham said during the visit on Saturday alongside President Petro Poroshenko. “2017 will be the year of offense,” he continued. “All of us will go back to Washington and we will push the case against Russia. ..."
...
McCain, a former Republican presidential candidate and prisoner of war in Vietnam, said: “I believe you will win. I am convinced you will win and we will do everything we can to provide you with what you need to win. ..."
That is obviously incitement to start a new war. But with their opposition to Trump McCain and Lindsay are out of the decision circles in Washington DC. They can write as many furious op-eds as they want but no one is going to read them and start a war with Russia.
Posted by b on February 1, 2017 at 10:43 UTC | Permalink
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Posted by: Mina | Feb 2 2017 9:43 utc | 102
Oh Gawd! A whole big line of heavy hitters, including Ghostship, jfl, and Outraged have come forward to debate my contention that: "The longer I live, the more I think that there is a "deep CIA" that is the real, genuine deep state." What to do? Their contentions apparently include the assertion that it all revolves around Big Money, or that relatively humble representatives of the high military officialdom have issued significant assertions.
Well, sure, they must have many typical paycheck clerks over at Langley. And a significant portion of the super-rich must hang or jet-set about spending trust fund checks or playing market games. I didn't claim that the Deep CIA were impecunious Johnny Paycheck clerks, or typical operatives. No the ruling individuals are like Soros -- They got their money the old-fashioned way -- They killed for it. After all, the ("fictional") Godfather wasn't exactly poor.
Posted by: blues | Feb 2 2017 9:53 utc | 103
John Gilberts 99
Where do these warmongering people come from? Are Canada willing to risk itself for the proection of Poroshenko? Lunatics!
Mina 101
Could you give some links on this?
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 2 2017 9:58 utc | 104
here, last five minutes
https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/linvite-des-matins/les-gauches-peuvent-elles-sunir
the Fillon gate (check "Poutine Fillon" on google you ll find some of his declarations before he won the primary elections of the LR party)
here the socialist who won the left primary last sunday, puts in his victory speech that "putin is a threat on Europe and destabilize the MiddleEast" !!!
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/presidentielle-2017/20170129.OBS4529/verbatim-primaire-a-gauche-le-discours-de-victoire-de-benoit-hamon.html
the main point of disagreement now between the extreme left and the socialists (hamon is supposed to be the extreme left of the very centrist socialists) is on putin, because Melenchon has admitted a positive role in syria.
Posted by: Mina | Feb 2 2017 11:05 utc | 105
add that hamon is close to the Muslim Brothers (he was locally elected in Trappes where they have some influence and where Qatar has invested money through the years) and you'll get an idea of the money thread
Posted by: Mina | Feb 2 2017 11:10 utc | 106
Poroshenko is playing with fire in a straw house. There will not be a Minsk III.
Posted by: SingingSam | Feb 2 2017 14:04 utc | 107
Glenn Brown@81
Thanks for the concise summary of events. It's always helpful these complicated times to have reminders of how we got where we are.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 2 2017 14:13 utc | 108
@29 Circe I am with you all the way until you make your prediction that the Empire and its "friends" will overrun Syria and box in Russia. It may turn out as you describe but we can't be certain. I can't picture Putin letting America dominate Russia to the point where its armed forces are beholden to US imposed terms and conditions.
The situation is, however, bad.
The bitter and vindictive amateur anti-ideologue (i.e. Bannon) and the junta of hard-line rightwing military wackjobs the Chump has assembled to run his administration are putting us at risk of global war. Their record 11 days in is already appalling. I do wish the blogosphere would snap out of its fugue and realize Chump is not the guy who is going to turn the Empire into a peaceful trading nation or a New Deal social democracy. Not going to happen. Remember Obama? Hope and change? Stop pandering to the billionaire scam artist.
Even the independent media/blogosphere is unwittingly following the MSM script which presents a choice between Obama, Hillary, Merkel, Trudeau, May (snicker) and the neoliberal globalists (The Good Guys) and the Trump-Hitler-Putin alliance (The Bad Guys). Do not fall for it. For one thing the Trump-Putin alliance is a fiction and both the globalists and the reality show president are not going to further democracy or listen to the people or anything of the sort. They are both BAD for the world. VERY BAD. By acting like you HAVE TO pick either Trump or the neoliberals you are accepting the media's frame. Stop it.
The reluctance to call out Trump among some on the political left (real left, not American liberal "left") is interesting...and stupid. Actions, actions, actions. A "fighting terrorism" ban that doesn't include Saudi Arabia should be one massive clue that suggests Trump administration is going to be unhinged from reality. It is run by Steve Bannon, a smart yet dangerously unhinged individual. Obama was bad, yes, very bad. He is also history and Chump and his apes are in charge now.
Trump's contribution was tearing down the rotting facade put up by the neoliberal globalist vampires. He and his band of clowns are not going to be the ones who "fix" the system. My prediction: a long period of geopolitical instability and increasing social unrest in the West and a slide into a more classic totalitarianism and war. All those "anti-teror" laws that allow the state to disappear people deemed "threats" to national security and hold them indefinitely with rights and liberties suspended? Well soon they won't apply only to Muslims anymore.
Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Feb 2 2017 15:21 utc | 109
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 2, 2017 4:58:25 AM | 104
re Canada's 'support' of Ukraine crazies.
Trudeau is a certifiable ignoramus, easily led. Most Canadians are brainwashed to accept mass media narratives. Canada has more voting Russia-hating Ukrainians and Russia hating gays and Russia fearing dimwits than it has Russia admirers.
Canada is an American lapdog with wannabee pretensions of performing like a midget pitbull. Canada is owned by the Queen of England, that is, the pedophile friendly monarchy of England. Trudeau swears allegiance to her, not Canada. Canada is part of NATO, a collection of violent liars seeking purpose in life that involves mass murder.
Thus the government of Canada's support for Ukraine-related lies, Ukraine war crimes and insane Ukrainians.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 2 2017 15:40 utc | 110
@109
Who keeps parroting this "bromance" bs btw Putin and Trump? If by bromance, you mean restoration of a balance of power btw east and west and teneble relations, well, then yes, I suppose. You are speculating on relations falling apart, which is not good for either Russia or the US. The interest would be to get along. If the media frames it as a "bromance," so be it, but neither leader is prepared or willing to be a lapdog. Any kind of functional relationship would be an improvement over the past five years and what could have been under a Clinton regime. I don't believe that upending this progress is in the cards. Let's hope Trump and Putin are "good" for the world.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 2 2017 16:01 utc | 111
Trump's strategy seems to be to drive a wedge between Russia and Iran.
Posted by: paul | Feb 2 2017 16:06 utc | 112
Temporarily Sane @109
There is no real Left. Progressives are a small minority. Sanders and others of the fake left/institutional left have urged progressives to content for power in the Democratic Party. That is a losing proposition. 'Change from within' the Democratic Party is futile and only serves to legitimize the Party. /rant
Some progressive groups are now emerging that renounce corporate money. But successful "grass roots" groups often turn out to be just controlled opposition. A new approach that offers an alternative to the left-right paradigm of elephants and asses is needed.
I now support the Pirate Party. It's a party that supports direct Democracy. Internet technology had made Direct Democracy much more viable.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <>
For the time being our best hope is that Trump stay true to his 'America First' principles. In late November 2016, John Mersheimer warned that it wouldn't be easy:
Trump campaigned against America’s powerful foreign policy community—what one of President Obama’s advisors derisively labeled “the Blob.” Its members include prominent Democrats and Republicans with similar views on foreign policy. He accused them of producing “one foreign policy disaster after another,” and promised to “develop a new foreign policy direction for our country.” This was precisely the message many voters wanted to hear, and the president-elect now has the opportunity to change how the United States deploys its power around the world. . .
The foreign-policy community, which has deep roots and cuts across both of the major political parties, will go to enormous lengths to tame the new president and make sure he sticks with liberal hegemony.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 16:09 utc | 113
@112 Paul
The question is Paul: will it work?
Which leads to another question: Is Putin dumb?
Which leads to another question: are you dumb?
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 2 2017 16:11 utc | 114
Why does the U.S. economy have to keep expanding in order to avoid collapse? I'm no economist, but I don't understand why a steady state is impossible.
Posted by: lysias | Feb 2 2017 16:18 utc | 115
paul @112:
Trump's strategy seems to be to drive a wedge between Russia and Iran.I think Trump will use Iran to drive a wedge between Russia and China.
Will Putin back Chinese defense of and SCS or take the deal offered by Trump?
It is an appealing offer. The globalists wanted to subdue Russia. Trump will offer to partner with Russia.
Keep your popcorn maker plugged in.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 16:18 utc | 116
... Trump making nice with Russia will always be just a façade; it's not real; it will never be genuine; it's just a temporary game. ... Circe at 29.
Russian expert on American affairs doesn't think US and Russia will have rapprochement or if it does, it will be merely to break apart Russian-Chinese ties. mischi at 35.
The ‘expert’ quoted by mischi is being pessimistic and pointing to ‘what the aim really is’ and Circe alludes to US duplicity.
However, in a sense (for the moment, long term another story) all that doesn’t matter.
Trump’s election and his ‘positons’ signal that aggro towards Russia is off. Obama (> Clinton) destroyed three countries that are/were ‘friends’ of Russia: Lybia, Ukraine, Syria. They allied more strongly with ‘jihadism’, instrumentalising these forces in cahoots with KSA, Qatar, etc. Russia finally got it together to oppose in Syria. Etc. etc. all this is well known.
War with Russia is impossibile for the US - the damage would be too severe. So hugging your enemy is good strategy, and at wild best a ‘parnership’ would guarantee hegemony over the world. — Together US-R hold the majority of military power, domination over others, ressources, etc. (Roughly.)
The alliance implies mutual concessions, agreements, and the end of US ‘duplicity’ and strong-arming. The Russia-China alliance, discrete as it is, cannot be undone, as anyone who is dreaming about that scenario will soon find out. Together they hold a weak, but nevertheless real, upper hand and that will have to be recognized by the US. Realpolitik will take hold, the US will have to adjust to the so-called multi-polar world, accepted with a lot of aggressive bluster, etc. That is the point of the Trump presidency: to save the US and MAGA (up to a point..), therefore citizen-Trump-voters need to be ‘boosted’ (jobs and more) to also avoid civil war, collapse, amongst other matters.
A volatile situation, but imho it won't blow up soon.
Posted by: Noirette | Feb 2 2017 16:20 utc | 117
@117
Thx, Noirette. Great post. You encapsulate the prevailing logic of the situation very well. Everyone should take note. There are very few cards the US can play in this emerging world. They will have to stop throwing tantrums to be able to sit at the big boy table.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 2 2017 16:23 utc | 119
Video of Ukraine army and apparent breach of ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/TomBurridgebbc/status/826812407225909249
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 2 2017 16:25 utc | 120
Noirette @117:
The Russia-China alliance, discrete as it is, cannot be undone, as anyone who is dreaming about that scenario will soon find out. Together they hold a weak, but nevertheless real, upper hand and that will have to be recognized by the US.Yes! And no "undoing" of alliances is necessary.
If US-R make a deal, China would effectively become a junior partner to Russia just as US allies (notably Israel-GCC) would also become junior partners.
US-R is path to stable and peaceful world, other path is war as neocon/globalist insist on hegemony.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 16:30 utc | 121
McCain and Graham's intervention will simply convince Trump to do everything in his power to get the opposite result. He despises this pair so much that he will do anything to humiliate them!
That's how Trump is.
Posted by: virgile | Feb 2 2017 16:52 utc | 122
Ray McGovern - Veteran American journalist and Russia specialist Mark Ames wonders why President Vladimir Putin and other Russians are not angrier at the U.S. than they seem to be, given what Bill Clinton, Wall Street, and Harvard advisers did to take advantage of drunken president Boris Yeltsin and predator oligarchs to hobble the Russian economy and make the very life-span of Russia’s 99 percent much shorter.
Ames knows whereof he speaks. He spent a decade reporting from Yeltsin’ and Putin’s Russia, witnessing its transformation from an American “colony” to it’s “number one threat.” Brava to Telesur’s Abby Martin and Mark Ames for filling in the blanks regarding a critical period in U.S.-Russia relations, about which few Americans are aware.
Ames provides a great deal of context for a period the U.S. did interfere in Russia's affairs, intimately and purposefully, which may be of help to newbies to the subject, otherwise unavailable from the dinosaur media. It's an excellent interview and Ames, like Taibbi, are solid sources on Russia IMHO.
The video of Ames interview with Abby is at this link. McGovern has a bit more to say about the interview so I'm providing the full link...apologies for length.
Surely hope that Trump will trump the (more evil than he) evil duo and their nefarious global plans. Those are two nasty bastards - McCain and Lindsey Graham. (Was once a trio with Joe Lieberman).
Can't shake, however, the bullshit meme of Global War On Terror. The western masses eat it up. And Trump whips that horse like the rest of the "popular politicians".
Posted by: fastfreddy | Feb 2 2017 17:19 utc | 124
@121
That's ridiculous. You're projecting your own spin again. Here's Bannon in his own words just a few months ago.:
Just today Trump tweeted more threats against Iran.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827119326880813056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827118012784373760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
These are Trump's and Bannon's words; your's are just the usual good intent projection on Trump.
So many inconvenient facts are piling up; discrediting your credibility. You just can't keep up with your fake positive spin.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 17:23 utc | 125
@Circe
I decline your invitation to a pissing contest. But you go ahead and enjoy yourself.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 17:36 utc | 126
(Reuters - newswire)
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain asked President Donald Trump on Thursday to help Ukraine defend itself against an increase in recent attacks from Russia."In light of the latest Russian attacks and the prospect of future aggression against Ukraine, I urge you to exercise the authority given to you by the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017 to provide defensive lethal assistance to Ukraine to defend its territory against further violations by Russia and its separatist proxies," McCain said in a letter.
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 2 2017 17:39 utc | 127
Jackrabbit @ 113 -- Re: your comments about Sanders. The only way Trump was able to even run for president was to run in the Republican primary. Same for Sanders; he had to run in the Dem primary to get ANY attention from the MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media).
Trump is now president.
I believe had Sanders been the Dem nominee he would have won in a true landslide.
But that cannot be proven. However, even before Sanders was getting any real MCM attention and air time, he was getting polling results showing he was the Dem candidate who could beat everyone in the Repub field.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Can't be proven and it is damnably depressing to think about what coulda been for the USA and the world.
Listening right now to an interesting discussion on WNYC's Brian Lehrer Show. Bannon as Trump's Rasputin? Is that being unfair to Rasputin?
The two guests talked about how Bannon seemed to be giving Repubican-type pols tryouts with his doing documentaries about, Sarah Palin and one I can't recall just now. He saw Trump as an empty vessel which he Bannon could fill -- and control. Reagan was Bannon's ideal president, another empty vessel ideal, and his documentary of Reagan was a hagiography.
No transcripts are provided, but there is audio. Lehrer rolls over backwards to seem absolutely fair and impartial, but the anecdotes about Bannon are very interesting. Both guests are afraid Bannon has long term plans to do bad things to any and all Muslims.
Summary about guests, who are pretty MCM-ish: "Eliana Johnson, national political reporter at POLITICO and former Washington editor for National Review, and Scott Shane, reporter in the Washington bureau of The New York Times and author of Objective Troy: A Terrorist, a President, and the Rise of the Drone (Tim Duggan Books, 2015), discuss Steve Bannon’s history at Breitbart News and his new position at the National Security Council."
http://www.wnyc.org/story/power-behind-trump
Posted by: jawbone | Feb 2 2017 17:45 utc | 128
January 6, 2017 - Poroshenko presents Ukraine State awards to Senators McCain and GrahamThe president awarded Senator McCain the 'Order of Freedom' and presented the 'Order of Prince Yaroslav' to the wise Senator Graham for their significant personal contributions to the enhancement of relations between Ukraine and the United States...
The president and the senators noted the importance of continuing efforts to ensure the fulfillment of Russia’s commitments under the Minsk agreements and to maintain the policy of international sanctions against Russia until full restoration of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Crimea.
The president offered the senators a chance to visit the Donbass and obtain objective information about the subversive actions of Russia and its militants that continue provocations and violate the ceasefire regime...
Poroshenko also stated that Ukraine is fighting not only for its own independence. “We are fighting for freedom, values, democracy, and we defend them in the center of Europe in the 21st century,” he stressed...
In turn, Sen. McCain confirmed his determination to assist Ukraine in its struggle against the aggression of Russia.
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 2 2017 17:55 utc | 129
T Sane @ 109 said:" A "fighting terrorism" ban that doesn't include Saudi Arabia should be one massive clue that suggests Trump administration is going to be unhinged from reality"
Yep, just another inconvenient fact that Circe @ 125 alluded to.
At what point do we abandon our tribal alliances and admit to reality? Just a thought...
Posted by: ben | Feb 2 2017 18:04 utc | 130
The "National Prayer Meeting" in DC, you can't make that up
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-38837263
Posted by: Mina | Feb 2 2017 18:13 utc | 131
jawbone @128
What good is running in the Democratic Party when it is just a set up?
When Sanders endorsed Hillary he betrayed his base. He did so despite proof that of DNC-Hillary collusion - including Debra Wasserman Schultz joining the Hillary campaign.
There are many other examples that point to Sanders as progressive 'sheepdog' for the Centrist Democrats. He didn't make a serious appeal to groups that Hillary claimed (women and minorities). And he pulled many punches during the election: Remember the 6 coin tosses in Iowa going to Hillary? Remember "Enough with the emails?"
I think the level of support he got surprised him as well as the Party. But he never wanted or intended to lead a Movement for change. And today, there is no Movement!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 18:13 utc | 132
ben @130:
A "fighting terrorism" ban that doesn't include Saudi ArabiaThey purposely used Obama's list for this initial 90-day period. Doing so allowed them to:
1) Show the duplicity of the media;2) Avoid claims of 'shooting from the hip'.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 18:18 utc | 133
JR @ 132 said:"What good is running in the Democratic Party when it is just a set up?"
Well, it did provide Mr. Trump with many progressive slogans to parrot..
JR also said.."When Sanders endorsed Hillary he betrayed his base."
Absolutely, and totally true.
Posted by: ben | Feb 2 2017 18:27 utc | 134
Mina/ Canuck 110
I live in Europe and can tell you that the situation is the exact same here, its red-scaring every day, politicians (EVERY PARTY!) warmonger like every day against Russia.
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 2 2017 18:28 utc | 135
JR @ 133 said:"They purposely used Obama's list for this initial 90-day period. Doing so allowed them to:
1) Show the duplicity of the media;
2) Avoid claims of 'shooting from the hip'."
A question.. How long do we wait for the new Admin. to address the problems with the KSA?
Posted by: ben | Feb 2 2017 18:31 utc | 136
@109
Circe I am with you all the way until you make your prediction that the Empire and its "friends" will overrun Syria and box in Russia. It may turn out as you describe but we can't be certain. I can't picture Putin letting America dominate Russia to the point where its armed forces are beholden to US imposed terms and conditions.
I hope you're right, but Trump's phone call with the Saudis and UAE recruiting them to his safe zones plan bothers me a lot. Making a deal with them is like making a pact with the devil. I don't see good faith towards Russia in that. The Saudis are the principle funders, weapons suppliers and supporters of Wahhabi mercenary terrorists that Russia with its alliance were fighting in Syria. I also question why billions in arms were sent by the U.S to Saudi Arabia in December to fight a dirt poor starving Yemeni? Then you have the incessant threats against Iran based on lies. Iran did not violate the terms of the deal and neither did it attack a Saudi ship that U.S. analysts in Trump's admin believe the Houthis assumed might be an American ship and neither was the Houthi attack a trial run for an Iranian proxy attack on the USS Cole. Fictional garbage intelligence and hyperbole like this got us into Iraq. I see a dangerous pattern here.
You made an excellent argument and I find your comment on the whole to be the most realistic and sensible here. It's a relief to know there are still some here who haven't lost a genuine perspective over the Trump mirage.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 18:38 utc | 137
IMO, The two BIG "elephants in the room", in ANY foreign policy discussion, are the problems with the KSA, and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.
Without those discussions it's "business as usual" in DC.
Posted by: ben | Feb 2 2017 18:44 utc | 138
ben @136
A question.. How long do we wait for the new Admin. to address the problems with the KSA?Well, I don't have a crystal ball. But it would seem that the best opportunities for doing so are: 1) as part of the permanent 'extreme vetting' that is put in place in 90 days; 2) after a deal is made with Russia (Trump can then be more forceful with so-called "allies")
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 18:54 utc | 139
ben @138:
"elephants in the room"I think the big elephant in the room has been Israel+Saudi influence via political donations. That has allowed each to do terrible things.
Trump as already taken action to 'drain the swamp' of foreign influence by issuing an Executive Order banning US officials from lobbying after office (I believe the ban is 5 years and 8 years if for a foreign entity).
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 19:02 utc | 140
Scott Adams of Dilbert fame offers this wisdom regarding the calls. I find such voices helpful when trying to learn how Trumpism works. No question his style is not like any we've ever seen before in the body politic, so learning to understand how his style works is helpful to me not to react to everything he utters or what those write about what he says.
"Today’s news will be all about President Trump’s tense phone calls with the leaders of Australia and Mexico. The popular spin is that the president was rude and aggressive with both of them. Very unpresidential, say the critics. Maybe he is crazy! And orange! Chaos! Chaos! Chaos!Another spin on the same observations is that both Australia and Mexico required their leaders to “stand up” to President Trump in a more aggressive way than you would expect with a normal president. I didn’t hear the details of the calls, but I have to think they were lecturing him, or talking down to him, or generally being dicks because that’s what their countries required of them in this situation. Trump just showed them what that strategy buys them.
If you see one phone call as an event that stands alone, you’re missing the story arc. Everything is an ongoing negotiation with Trump. Australia and Mexico just had to sleep on the idea that their relationship with the United States is worse today than yesterday. And it sends a signal to other leaders that lecturing President Trump with an eye toward grandstanding or embarrassing him isn’t the strongest strategy. He probably needed to make that point one way or another. That’s done. Now let’s see if the next foreign leader decides to lecture him or not. I’m thinking no.
There will be plenty of breathless commentary today about the end of civil diplomacy. What we don’t know is how it all turns out. Don’t judge a book by the first sentence. The fun is just starting.
Just to be clear, I’m sure the new administration is making plenty of rookie errors. It’s not all brilliant persuasion. But don’t assume you can tell them apart with limited information.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156711454356/president-trump-and-the-other-countries
I also think this comment from buzzlatte3 over at noquarterusa, Larry Johnson's blog, is helpful regarding Flynn's 'put on notice' statement -
"From a behavioral standpoint putting someone "on notice" simply means that their behavior or actions have been noticed or witnessed. It's a mild rebuke meant to say, "I'll be watching you."
"How that translates into the world of foreign policy we'll see over time."
"I see that the Trump admin is using basic behavioral modification techniques to shape the behavior of the press at the press briefings."
"One thing, once the "naughty" behavior is called out the perpetrator tends to escalate the undesirable behavior. Then, over time, and after consequences set in the undesirable behavior tends to fade."
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/79573/lots-strange-happening-iran/
@138 ben
By the way, you are one of those here I refer to as maintaining a genuine perspective regardless of Trump. You're right. It doesn't take a sixth sense to recognize a glaring problem and red flags are all over the place with this administration.
Inviting the leaders of illegal settlement movements was a slap in the face at Palestinians who are suffering so much injustice for decades as was trying to sabotage a U.N. Resolution condemning illegal settlements.
Regarding the KSA, once again, by recruiting them for his safe zones plan for Syria and even for safe zones in Yemen, Trump is already demonstrating that he is giving those criminal bastards a prominent seat at the negotiating table and is at best a continuation of the same misguided foreign policy we had with Bush and Obama. IMO the KSA should never be included in talks on Syria and Yemen after what they've done to those two countries and their malicious intent towards the Shia in both of these. Opening the door to a Saudi presence in Syria and Yemen is a fatal mistake.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 19:16 utc | 143
Just heard a new descriptive on CNBC for the Kiev government: "Pro Western Separatists".....
Posted by: georgeg | Feb 2 2017 19:33 utc | 144
@141, 142
Projecting some kind of superior method into Trump's immature outbursts is like parents interpreting something illuminating in a baby's babble.
Trump is like the last emperor of an unravelling empire throwing hissy fits that disclose his insecurity; instead of a leader exercising wisdom to avoid the mistakes of the past and inspiring confidence and respect. Pretty soon we'll see him doing something like this.:
http://chemistry-chemists.com/N8_2013/L1/dolja_pravdi-6.jpg
and then we'll know the end is near.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 19:44 utc | 145
You people didn't bank on this, did you.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/haley-russia-un/
Posted by: Louis Proyect | Feb 3 2017 3:26 utc | 146
@146 bad lp, lol.. - love how cnn quotes known liars verbatim... that's got to go over well with the
exceptional nation home team..
Posted by: james | Feb 3 2017 4:38 utc | 147
Re: Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2, 2017 11:18:43 AM | 116
It's a good question about what Russia should do vis-a-vis China and the South China Sea - it's fairly obvious, Russia should support China in the South China Sea exactly the same way China has supported Russia in Syria.
It's exactly the same type of situation and the best outcome for all is for Russia to mirror China's actions. Anything else would be frankly weird for Russia to even contemplate.
More of the same?
Russia rejects Trump's US envoy’s remarks on Crimea
"During a UN Security Council meeting on Thursday, US Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley had harshly criticized Moscow for what she described as “military intervention in Ukraine.”"
http://presstv.com/Detail/2017/02/03/508934/Russia-Churkin-US-Haley-Ukraine-Crimea
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 3 2017 11:56 utc | 149
@149 anonymous... wealthy oligarchs speaking directly thru nikki haley.. i guess that means more innocent people suffer and the usa sends them the money and etc for a continuation of the bs.. if she had a shred of character she would take a trip to donbass.. instead she dreams and thinks like hollywood..
Posted by: james | Feb 3 2017 17:54 utc | 150
ps i wonder if she can be as bad as powers.. she has a lot of work ahead of her..
Posted by: james | Feb 3 2017 17:55 utc | 151
@"you people" Banked on what? Nikki Halley or you trolling us?
Posted by: ruralito | Feb 3 2017 18:22 utc | 152
@146
Whatever, louie.
This Haley lady represents a huge step away from escalation with Russia. Powers talked all kinds of crazy warmongering nonsense about Russia and even with her doing that it still led to the situation we are in today with Russia having the upper hand. You trolls are trying desperately to control the narrative and to convince independent thinkers of your compensated reality...but here's the rub...the UN don't mean shit to Donald and until I hear words and see actions from the State Dept. OR from Trump, specifically, to something along the lines of: "let's go get those ruskies!" I will continue to be here trying to undo your poisonous words. I would imagine it would take awhile to rein in wannabe-assassins in a new position of power, anyway. As b and others have insinuated: there could be saboteurs, which would go along with the theory that he could actually be a danger to the status quo. Regardless, everything at this stage is pure conjecture and if someone reading this wants to find out if someone has an agenda here on this board, then identify those who have easy answers and usually end their garbage with "told ya so." Careful of the bullshit.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 3 2017 19:36 utc | 153
Halley in the UN acts on the instructions of the WH. No leeway, none. So, given everything she said is known falsehoods piled on propaganda, why ?
Is it an actual continuation of previous policies going back thru Obama to Bush jr ?
Or is it a 'role-play' for now, spouting the usual platitudes re the Evil Russkies to keep the GOP 'on-board'/'on-side', until the timing is suitable for a change of course/policy ?
The odd thing is, Churkin seemed unsurprised, took it all lightheartedly, and actually seemed somewhat amused, even playful re the exchanges ...
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 3 2017 20:01 utc | 154
I don't know the extent of foreign participation in these “battalions". re. (OUN in Ukr. etc.) Jen at 62.
Me neither but I looked it into it somewhat and have paid some attention.. (Leaving Croatians / Chechens out, idk) - as for foreign fighters there are plenty that went to the Donbass (pro-separatist), from Spain, France, some from CH that I know about, and some Brits/USAers as well. No surprise there. (Spanish civil war..) However these are ignored by MSM. Neo-nazis, Black Block, have kept out of Ukraine, from CH at least (and imho Germany, Austria, etc.) They support Palestine and are anti-US in first place.
In Syria, exactly the same story: there are no reports of ‘Westerners’ going to fight for ‘Assad’, although from here (CH) it is clear to me that those who go are 1/2 or so, 1/3, pro-Assad - they are Catholics.
One case is pending in the courts - an ardent ‘Christian’ who unfortunately for him was a captain in the Swiss Army. (Being a draft-dodger or exempt affords a different status.)
It is the same picture as when Swiss guys and gals went to fight in Yugoslavia, horrific. About equal proportions went to fight on the different sides (and authorities did a lot to try and stop them, with little success, it was heartbreaking, I still feel bad…) They hired buses and travelled together, from CH, through Italy, then by boat to Yugo. CH and Italy forbid ‘foreign uniforms + badges etc.’ so they wore sweats and sang together in the buses and changed into other garb once they arrived and then split up. Club-Med war, astonishing. Many never returned, the death rate is unknown. Of course, CH had and has a Yuuge ex-Yugo population (biggest in the world in proportion..), which explains this scene. Today, there are still commemorations for young ppl who were ‘lost’…
Posted by: Noirette | Feb 3 2017 20:08 utc | 155
taking 'sides' ... tee-rump/anti-tee-rump ... is a waste of time and energy ... and so is encouraged by supporters of the status quo. anyone who can rise ... certainly anyone who can rise to the top ... in the structurally corrupt system in place in the west and in all the 'up and coming' areas of the non-western world is not on the side of humanity or of any other living creatures. and there is not a dime's worth of difference among them.
there is an alternative. energy seems better spent in disinterring it, un-earthing it, and working to put it in place among the mother-f**kin' human population ... both male and - as power (what a name for a wannabe), haley, not to mention clinton, attest - female.
Posted by: jfl | Feb 3 2017 21:35 utc | 156
Trump: i will solve the conflict
http://presstv.com/Detail/2017/02/05/509163/US-President-Donald-Trump-Ukraine-conflict-Petro-Porshenko-Russia-Vladimir-Putin
Posted by: Anon | Feb 5 2017 8:02 utc | 157
The comments to this entry are closed.
32, 46 ref Russia
big issue in French politics now, candidates blaming anyone who is not for ww3 with Putin of being a paid propagandist
Posted by: Mina | Feb 2 2017 9:41 utc | 101