Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 01, 2017

Ukraine - Coup Government Tries To Sabotage U.S.-Russia Rapprochement

Updated below

Fighting in east Ukraine has restarted. This is an attempt by "deep state" forces to prevent any rapprochement between the U.S. and Russia under the new Trump administration.

The west-Ukrainian forces under command of the coup government of President Poroshenko started a large attack against the Russian supported Ukrainian self-defense forces in Donetsk and Lugansk governate.

A ceasefire arranged after the Minsk II agreement provided for demilitarized zones along a line of separation. The Ukrainian government has so far avoided to fulfill the Minsk II agreement that would allow a reuniting of the country. An OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM), which includes officers from NATO countries as well as Russia, is supervising the ceasefire and issues daily reports.

On January 26 the SMM reported:

The SMM recorded more ceasefire violations [1] in Donetsk region, including about 420 explosions, compared with 228 in the previous reporting period. More than 160 explosions were recorded around the Svitlodarsk area, with exchanges of fire also recorded around Avdiivka and Yasynuvata.
The Mission revisited a Ukrainian Armed Forces permanent storage site, whose location corresponded with the relevant withdrawal lines and observed that 12 tanks (T-64) and four mortars (2B9 Vasilek, 82mm) were missing, as previously noted.
The SMM followed up on reports of a blockade of a railway track near government-controlled Hirske. The railway leads towards the “LPR”-controlled settlements of Donetskyi and Sentianivka (formerly Frunze) (49 and 44km west of Luhansk, respectively). The Mission had observed a train travelling east through Donetskyi on 23 January. The SMM observed that the tracks had been blocked by tree trunks under a bridge on the southern edge of the settlement. About 20 unarmed men wearing camouflage clothing told the Mission that they were veterans from former volunteer battalions. The SMM observed a tent near the blockade site.

The observations on the 26th pointed to the preparation of a full attack which was launched on January 28:

The SMM recorded fewer ceasefire violations in Donetsk region between the evenings of 27 and 28 January compared with the previous reporting period (including about 330 explosions compared with about 520).[1] In the following 24 hours, however, the SMM recorded over 2,300 explosions, primarily in the Avdiivka-Yasynuvata-Donetsk airport area.

The SMM observed that the intense artillery barrage was launched north to south originating from the government held area.

The NAZI volunteer battalions from west-Ukrainian Galicia are spearheading the attack. There is ongoing fighting with intense artillery usage on several points along the ceasefire line (map). One main battle ground is the city of Avdeevka in the demilitarized zone north-west of Donetzk city.

The U.S. government propaganda site RFERL sees a "creeping offensive" initiated by the government side. Even the belligerent and anti-Russian Washington Post editors have to acknowledge that the Ukrainian government started this round. While unreasonably blaming Russia they observes:

Ukrainian commanders acknowledge that in recent weeks their forces had moved some positions forward in the no-man’s land between the front lines.

During the last two years the Ukrainian army experienced a massive build up. New equipment came in from the U.S. and other NATO countries and U.S. training missions tried to teach some basic fighting tactics. But while the newly conscripted 250,000 men army looks big on paper it still lacks any coherence and will to fight for the coup government and its U.S. overlords. Only the NAZI "volunteer battalions" have some fighting spirit but they are up against people defending their immediate homes. Any large offense from the government side will thus fail.

The fight was planned and started just after the inauguration of the new U.S. president Trump. Trump has acknowledged that Crimea is part of Russia as its population is overwhelmingly Russian. He has announced to seek good relations with Moscow. He will likely eliminate sanctions against Russia.

For the Ukrainian coup government and its neo-conservative supporters this marks the end of their dreams. If it loses U.S. and NATO support the Ukraine must declare bankruptcy, the government will be kicked out and the country will, over time, move naturally back into the Russian sphere.

To prevent that Poroshenko was ordered to launch a new attack while blaming Russia. He did as his mentors told him and traveled to Berlin in the hope of German support. But such is not coming. The German government let it know that it sees through his games and has no interest in them. The government friendly daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung "leaked" (translated here) that Berlin knows that Poroshenko started the fight to influence Trump and to prevent any sanction relief for Russia. But Berlin believes that the gimmick will fail and Merkel fears that Poroshenko will end up losing another round of the war while Russia will still get the better relations it seeks.

One would hope so. There is nothing to win for western-Europe, or anyone else, in another fight with Russia.

Neither the Trump administration nor the EU has blamed any side for relaunching the conflict. The civil NATO head Stoltenberg stayed within the official line blaming neither side. That surely is not to Poroshenko's favor.

The massive buildup of U.S. and NATO troops along the Russian border as well as the renewed fighting in Ukraine are part of the imperial plan initiated under Obama to squeeze Russia into a minor global role. It is an extremely dangerous endeavor. Russian history shows that it will not allow such. Trump will hopefully reverse the Obama plans and, as far as one can currently tell, seeks to arrange friendly cooperation with Russia wherever feasible.

The destination of the last official foreign visit of former Vice President Biden was Ukraine. The World War III promoting Senator McCain visited Kiev on New Years eve. Both were heavily involved in the earlier coup against the constitutional Ukrainian government. Biden's son is involved in natural gas business in Ukraine. Did they leave directives or suggestions?

The current attempts in Ukraine to sabotage a U.S. Russian rapprochement will probably not be the only ones. Some "accident" in the Baltic or "mistake" in Syria could surely be arranged by "deep state" rogue force. If such happens nether side should fall for it.


Politico wrote about the John McCain / Lindsey Graham New Year visit to Ukraine a month ago. Notice what they said:

“I admire the fact that you will fight for your homeland,” Graham told Ukraine’s 36th Separate Marine Brigade in the town of Shyrokyne, about four kilometers from the line of contact, according to a video released Monday by the Ukrainian presidency.

“Your fight is our fight,” Graham said during the visit on Saturday alongside President Petro Poroshenko. “2017 will be the year of offense,” he continued. “All of us will go back to Washington and we will push the case against Russia. ..."
McCain, a former Republican presidential candidate and prisoner of war in Vietnam, said: “I believe you will win. I am convinced you will win and we will do everything we can to provide you with what you need to win. ..."

That is obviously incitement to start a new war. But with their opposition to Trump McCain and Lindsay are out of the decision circles in Washington DC. They can write as many furious op-eds as they want but no one is going to read them and start a war with Russia.

Posted by b on February 1, 2017 at 10:43 UTC | Permalink

next page »

The longer I live, the more I think that there is a "deep CIA" that is the real, genuine deep state. Not the DotGov, or even the DotMil. Not the City of London, not Wall Street, nor Rothschild, nor the pseudo-Jews who pretend to love Israel. Although they are junior partners maybe. The deep CIA is the thing that gets the final say, by, let's say, a process of "elimination".

Posted by: blues | Feb 1 2017 11:03 utc | 1

"... But while the newly conscripted 250,000 men army looks big on paper it still lacks any coherence and will to fight for the coup government and its U.S. overlords ..."

Consider also the fact that many Ukrainian soldiers have either defected to the Donbass side or escaped to Russia, and that the conscripts who are replacing them may be unwilling to fight and/or have low morale.

"... Only the NAZI "volunteer battalions" have some fighting spirit but they are up against people defending their immediate homes ..."

Those Nazi battalions lack military discipline and they'll be up against not only people defending their homes but also Ukrainian Donbass veterans of the Soviet war in Afghanistan during the 1980s (and many of them still keeping onto their old weapons) and Ukrainian army defectors.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 1 2017 11:14 utc | 2

Trump's policy of rapprochement with Russia and repudiation of the USA global imperial ambition is not just a lethal threat to the post-coup dysfunctional leadership and their henchmen in the Ukraine. The new American international stance also creates a great threat to the current crop of political leaders and movers and shakers in virtually every European country, and to the EU project itself, who among other dysfunctions have been supportive of the Ukraine crazies with money and lies.

If you add in the Trump led new approach to communication - forthright statements and the reduction of the previous prevailing approach to political pronouncement: ie. lies and distortions - the entire supporting BS narrative of the Ukrainian power structure, inside and outside Ukraine, collapses.

The likely result of this turn of events will include the new 'refurbished' Ukrainian military turning it's guns towards its own govt., the people of the Ukraine supporting that, and as noted, governments in Europe being replaced, and more brexit-ish events.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 1 2017 12:05 utc | 3

It's what, at least ~ 14F or -10C below at the DMZ(?) and everyone other than the elites/well-off are simply trying to stay warm amongst basic fuel/heating critical shortages ? A very odd time indeed, if one excludes the chickenhawk warmonger neocons geopolitical motivations ...

No doubt partly the fruits of John McCain & Lindsey Graham visiting Ukraine on NYE 2016 and Joe Biden, since ...

McCain and graham spent the New year on the front line with Poroshenko's Neo-Nazis (and other troops brought in as stage props) near Shirokino. They appear to have handed over some shiny new weapons.

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 4, 2017 6:54:58 AM | 67

U.S. Sen. John McCain’s remarks to Ukrainian troops in Mariupol on Dec. 31.


Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you dear Ukrainian friends, especially those are serving in uniform away from their homes and their families, serving this nation. And to the wounded and to those families of those who have already sacrificed — our thanks, our gratitude, our prayers. We will never ever forget you.

What I have seen is cooperation between our two countries so that Ukraine can have a safe and secure border, which is the right of every nation. Our message tonight is that in 2017, we will defeat the invaders and send them back where they came from. And to Vladimir Putin, you will never defeat the Ukrainian people and deprive them of their independence and freedom. I thank all of you for your service. I send the message from the American people: We are with you, your fight is our fight, and we will win together.”

Apparently he's now setting policy for the president-elect, or thinks he is ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 4, 2017 7:20:41 AM | 70

Mr Trump took to twitter to respond to the senators' joint statement writing: "The joint statement of former presidential candidates John McCain and Lindsey Graham is wrong — they are sadly weak on immigration.

"The two senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III."

Suspect classified Executive Orders(EO) may well have been issued re close surveillance/monitoring of the likes of McCain, Graham, Brennan, Clapper, and other former deputy Directors and previous admin officials commencing 20th Jan ...

As the limited numbers of ideological Nazi battalions ranks are thinned by the 'Darwinism of the battlefield', where will their replacements come from ? And they don't have anywhere near the numbers to 'Command the Field', on their own ...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 12:07 utc | 4

blues | Feb 1, 2017 6:03:14 AM | 1
....deep CIA is the thing that gets the final say....

In this case I disagree with you. Who recently visited Ukraine and blathered on about how "freedom cannot be traded in Ukraine" and promised to expand support to Ukraine's armed forces?
Why, none other than that putrescent, moronic, fuckwit, UK Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon. I hope he is the first and last Brit into the front line in Ukraine.

Posted by: Ghostship | Feb 1 2017 12:09 utc | 5

The Post article said "At an emergency meeting of the OSCE Permanent Council in Vienna, U.S. Charge d’Affairs Kate Byrnes, a 24-year veteran of the State Department, blamed the violence on 'combined Russian-separatist forces.'

'We call on Russia to stop the violence, honor the cease-fire, withdraw heavy weapons, and end attempts to seize new territory beyond the line of contact,' she said."

It is entirely unclear how this can possibly be construed as a lack of support for Ukraine's fascist government. Further, this isn't the deep, hidden part of the state, it's the open, manifest, surface part of the state. Conceding Crimea while liquidating the conflict in eastern Ukraine by liquidating the rebels would be a good deal for Trump. Putin is no enemy of fascism, so he may find this a good deal too.

Posted by: s | Feb 1 2017 12:11 utc | 6

Posted by: canuck | Feb 1, 2017 7:05:18 AM | 3

The likely result of this turn of events will include the new 'refurbished' Ukrainian military turning it's guns towards its own govt., the people of the Ukraine supporting that, and as noted, governments in Europe being replaced, and more brexit-ish events.


In fact Donald Tusk, EU President has openly declared that Russia, China & the US are now existential threats to the EU ... clearly the self-serving bought & paid for Elites serving Globalist(?) interests are worried ...

"United we stand, divided we fall": letter by President Donald Tusk to the 27 EU heads of state or government on the future of the EU before the Malta summit

Dear colleagues,

The challenges currently facing the European Union are more dangerous than ever before in the time since the signature of the Treaty of Rome...

The first threat, an external one, is related to the new geopolitical situation ...assertive China,... Russia's aggressive policy ... worrying declarations by the new American administration ... Particularly the change in Washington puts the European Union in a difficult situation; with the new administration seeming to put into question the last 70 years of American foreign policy.

The second threat, ... anti-EU, nationalist,...

The third threat ... decline of faith in political integration, submission to populist arguments as well as doubt in the fundamental values of liberal democracy are all increasingly visible.

... Let us have the courage to oppose the rhetoric of demagogues, who claim that European integration is beneficial only to the elites, that ordinary people have only suffered as its result...
... It must be made crystal clear that the disintegration of the European Union will not lead to the restoration of some mythical, full sovereignty of its member states, but to their real and factual dependence on the great superpowers,: the United States, Russia and China...

... We cannot surrender to those who want to weaken or invalidate the Transatlantic bond, without which global order and peace cannot survive. We should remind our American friends of their own motto: United we stand, divided we fall.

Hm ?

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 12:28 utc | 7

trump should be wary, The population of some US states could be majority mexican, hence belonging to mexico ?

Posted by: Balladin | Feb 1 2017 12:40 utc | 8

Correction! to: Feb 1, 2017 7:28:06 AM | 7

Donald Tusk, the President of the European Council. The EU Council, consists of the heads of State/Government Leaders of the 27 countries comprising the EU.

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 12:54 utc | 9

MOA and its following has found its niche finally,stay out of MENA as you guys dont know the difference between a palm tree and a donkey!UKrine and the ziofacist wet dream to take down evil putin up the street where you guys live...good luck:-)

Posted by: Nur Adlina | Feb 1 2017 13:11 utc | 10

- I am far from surprised.
- My assumption is that the Ukraine got a wink and a nudge from the warmongers in the US.
- It's going to be interesting to see how Trump is going to react to this development (if at all). But I don't think he will be interested at all to do something about it.

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 1 2017 13:43 utc | 11

The largest US deployment into Europe since the Cold War, US tanks and armored vehicles fired shells into the night in Poland as part of what officials have long presented as a NATO training exercise, but which they are increasingly conceding is more than that. I suppose the new neocon mantra should be 'anyone can go to Poland, real men go to Moscow' These John McCain types are f--king lunatics.

Posted by: harrylaw | Feb 1 2017 14:01 utc | 12

NATO going for Kaliningrad swap scenario?
1. Deliver new NATO 'boots on the ground' resources for 'training' exercises in the area.
2. Trump smooches up with Putin.
3. Kiev renews conflict in the Ukraine border areas (Donetsk).
4. Provokes Russian 'invasion' response.
5. Justifies claiming Kaliningrad as a swap for Crimea and regions east of the Dnieper River.

The carve up of the Ukraine failed state aside, there is some win-win in the final reset outcome.

Posted by: x | Feb 1 2017 14:11 utc | 13

EU/MSM/ (and soon also US gov I very much suspect) will of course blame Russia for this.

Maybe Merkel made the escalation possible some days ago?
LIVE: Merkel and Poroshenko meet in Berlin (on Monday)

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 1 2017 14:31 utc | 14

A friend loaned me Friedman's book Flashpoints. (I will not waste space ripping it apart but ...) The latter section points the strains of keeping the EU together and the many places where war can break out thanks to the shifting histories of the peoples involved. Tusk is Polish and probably globalist to be in his position so naturally he will push for cohesion. China threat? Where? Russia? Only because like the comic, the EU works with the US to get idiots to poke the bear with the stick. The major threats to the EU are internal and resistance to its own policies as well as the economic imbalances of Germany versus Greece and Portugal.

Posted by: Curtis | Feb 1 2017 14:46 utc | 15

Of course a pole is ruling the EU...

Reminds me of nazism too, after all Donald Tusk's grandfather Jozef served in Wehrmacht.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 1 2017 14:54 utc | 16

@15 I agree about 'poking the bear'. It's dangerous and unnecessary. But somewhere deep in the psyche of Eastern Europe lurks the ghost of Genghiz Khan i.e. they expect trouble to come from the East.

Posted by: dh | Feb 1 2017 14:58 utc | 17

... and then there's Trump

dh 17
And that was Friedman's point. All of these people whether in the Balkans, Caucasus, the other Eastern European countries, all have relatively recent historical animosities. Ghost is right; the Soviets re-furnished their troops in WWII from the east and the results were brutal.

Greece and Portugal aren't the only ones who see Germany's new domination. France is there to a lesser extent. And many are upset at German leadership of suicidal immigration policies.

Posted by: Curtis | Feb 1 2017 15:04 utc | 18

I really hope your high hopes for a good development of the u.s.-russian relations under the Tronald administration will be fulfilled, but when I think about the warmongering directed to China coming from this same admin I doubt.

Posted by: Pnyx | Feb 1 2017 15:31 utc | 19

>>>> x | Feb 1, 2017 9:11:19 AM | 13

NATO going for Kaliningrad swap scenario?

Not going to happen. Only NATO country with any real claim on it is Germany and they're not interested particularly since it's population is very solidly Russian. Poland talks about redrawing the map of Europe to re-acquire land once under Polish control, but any gains they will make in the east from Belarus or Ukraine will be more than matched by loses in the west.
>>>> harrylaw | Feb 1, 2017 9:01:27 AM | 12
I suppose the new neocon mantra should be 'anyone can go to Poland, real men go to Moscow' These John McCain types are f--king lunatics.

Field Marshal Montgomery, who knew a bit about making war and was a decent if egotistical general, had three rules of war:
1. Don't go to Moscow.
2. Don't go to Moscow.
3. Don't commit your army to a land war in Asia.
Douglas MacArthur, who also knew a bit about making war, adopted Montgomery's third rule as his own but then as a general, he was pretty much focused on Asia, and he probably thought the first two were pretty obvious except to complete and utter imbeciles.

Posted by: Ghostship | Feb 1 2017 15:44 utc | 20

Posted by: dh | Feb 1, 2017 9:58:09 AM | 17
Posted by: Curtis | Feb 1, 2017 10:04:45 AM | all

No disagreements here. ;)

What one finds stunningly remarkable is making the above statements 'publicly', in writing. Not a very bright Pole ?

From antiquity there is a 'Golden Rule' re public/open diplomacy, NEVER declare another State an enemy(existential or otherwise), for even if they were not truly, prior, they become one after such a declaration, because they and the world have been told they are. Self-fulfilling stupidity. Statecraft/Diplomacy 101.

Donald Trump's likely pick for ambassador to the European Union has suggested he wants to bring down the bloc.

On BBC Two's This Week, Ted Malloch was asked why he wanted to be US ambassador to the EU considering he is clearly not a fan of Brussels.

Mr Malloch replied: "I had in a previous career a diplomatic post where I helped bring down the Soviet Union. So maybe there's another union that needs a little taming."

The businessman and strident Brexiteer also referred to European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker as a "very adequate mayor of some city in Luxembourg."

@ Posted by: x | Feb 1, 2017 9:11:19 AM | 13

RF will never likely surrender Kaliningrad Oblast exclave, it is a strategic dagger held against Europe's/NATO's throat, even more valuable strategically than Crimea, and in fact one of the 85 Russian Federal subject territories that comprise the actual Russian Federation. Would the US be convinced somehow to trade away Texas or Georgia(US)? Not likely.

Nor will they likely ever abandon the Donbass region to their fate. The Russian government & Putin would likely be crucified by its own citizens for such. See 'Frozen conflicts', ie, Republic of Transnistria, South Ossetia & Abkhazia (Georgia), Crimea, Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic in Donbass region in eastern Ukraine. Since Yeltsin, the RF plays the 'Long Game', similar to the Chinese ...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 15:59 utc | 21

No worries, worthless Ukrainian army will be beaten back every time it tries this nonsense. Ukrainians historically displayed an uncanny ability to do nothing right and everything wrong - and nothing appears to have changed.

Posted by: telescope | Feb 1 2017 16:27 utc | 22

"Deep State", "PTB", whatever you call it, is nothing more than what it's always been. A cabal of rich, greedy Corporatists, who require more and more of the global "market share". The "regime change" in the Ukraine is part of that overall plan of corporate hegemony. It remains to be seen if Mr. Trump can reverse that trend. His alliance with Russia is VERY much needed to ensure a shot at a multi-polar world. I, for one, hope so.

Question for the day is, can Mr. Trump rise above the "business uber alles" mentality or not?

The U$A was founded as a protest against the English King, and his cabal of corporate pirates in the British East India Corp., and now it's (U$A) become the corporate behemoth we fought against, so many years ago.

We're waiting...

Posted by: ben | Feb 1 2017 16:34 utc | 23

It seems like Ukraine testing how far they could go, I wouldnt bet that Trump would risk WW3 for saving Poroshenko. Apparently Poroshenko is too stupid to comprehend that it seems.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 1 2017 16:39 utc | 24

Not mentioned in b's piece but mentioned several times on Fort Russ is the assertion that Ukraine is throwing the neo-Nazis of Right Sector into the fore to a) let them get killed off before they come for Porky in Kiev and b) accomplish the goals of trying to stir up conflict they can blame on Russia.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Feb 1 2017 16:46 utc | 25

Every conscripted Ukraine soldier know this: Their side is going to lose big if there is serious fighting. The Russians will never let the Donbass fall. Why die for Porky as cannon-fodder in a losing fight? How's that for morale?

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Feb 1 2017 16:58 utc | 26

thanks b.. neo nazis as stupid cannon fodder.. sounds plausible..

Posted by: james | Feb 1 2017 17:10 utc | 27

Ukies are saying that the Russians fired on a Ukie military transport plan from drilling platforms in the Black Sea.

Posted by: mischi | Feb 1 2017 17:15 utc | 28

Poor-poor innocent man-child Trump; someone's going to force his hand with a ruse and ruin detente with Russia. Did you ever think that maybe Trump wants and needs an excuse to break with the fake niceties reciprocity he got himself into with Putin who might get the better of him playing to his ego? Maybe Trump needs a strategy to put Putin in a weaker position to then get the upper hand at the negotiating table when it comes to Syria?

My bad; Trump doesn't do foreign policy strategy, he's got Pence and Mattis and others who are not so keen on Russia strategizing for him, but let's not forget who hired them. Give me a plan on Syria safe zones in 90 days! Maybe rattling Putin's cage when it comes to Ukraine is part of the plan, you think?

Remember, Trump making nice with Russia will always be just a façade; it's not real; it will never be genuine; it's just a temporary game. The goal will always be to weaken Russia; always. Trump will always put the interests of U.S. power (i.e. Empire) above any meaningful detente or Russian geopolitical perspective.

Trump is a fraud and you're soon going to be very disappointed when he brings in the Saudis and forces Assad out or neuters him in some way to attempt to create yet another vassal state in Syria for the Empire hence pleasing his Zionist masters.

If Russia gets to keep a base in Tartus; there will be conditions on what weaponry Russia holds there and basically it will amount to a meaningless token that adds nothing to Russian influence in the region, when the U.S. has countless bases in the vicinity holding whatever weaponry it deems necessary for its perpetual dominance.

What a price to pay for a pretense of detente. (No doubt Trump minions are already seething at my candor.)

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 17:17 utc | 29

Have Donald TUSK removed any links on his grandfather's ties to Wehrmacht on Google? I get very few, if any hits on that, pretty much only Wikipedia that touch on it.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 1 2017 17:26 utc | 30


Circe, why do you even come here if what you write usually goes up against the narrative from b nearly every time, and doing so in such a juvenile manner? It confirms that you are indeed a troll and add very little to the atmosphere of hopeful waiting that has arisen over the past month. Take a dump elsewhere. Go back to slate.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 1 2017 17:41 utc | 31

The Ukraine Gvmt. of corrupt and loser oligarchs has only one card to play on the International stage -> Agression against Russia.

Which in this case means attacking part of their own citizens, own country, which they do *every single time* it appears they are loosing status or international support. (IMF hesitation, Biden or others tell them to move forward with x, y, z, someone mentions the Minsk accords, etc.) Ukr. invests what little it has left (to the detriment of the pop, their coffers, various losses incl military, the risk of serious internal dissent and breakaway) in this effort, throwing, as the saying goes, good money after bad. A one-card trick. Trump is a disaster for them, so escalation required, like banning Russian books…

One might opine it doesn’t affect the top dogs, but that ain’t so. The oligarchs are far poorer, less in control, and less influential than before, and so infight more, destroying any semblance of unity. Moreover, since about a year now, imho, it is admitted in the corridors of power that “Ukraine” was a “failure” so nobody talks about it seriously anymore, they prefer closed eyes, skimming over it, covered up with empty folderol speech and folkloric moves. The W has a problem - there is no power in Ukr. that can ‘fix’ the country aka open it up for ‘global’ agri / trade / arms / banking via ‘democratic reforms’ to favor, allow, outside rapine, etc. while at the same time opposing the Russkies. A major contradiction…

Ukraine will ultimately be broken up.

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 1 2017 17:47 utc | 32

the link for the Ukie claims about being fired upon by Russian oil platforms

Posted by: mischi | Feb 1 2017 17:52 utc | 33

It has always seemed incredible to me that with the ongoing and eternal problem of Chernobyl facing them, the coup-Ukranians could ever think they would get more aid from far away US of A than they will and must get from nearby Russian Federation. And that they would resurrect old animosities to attack their own fellow citizens.

Just what was in those Nuland cookies anyway?

Biden has always represented for me the crazy dream of world domination from the financial quarter - shunting together Ukraine and the EU to bring further Nazi disorientation from the east - threatening Russia and at the same time threatening the financial center of the EU. Win-win. And McCain is just a crazy man, period.

Thank you, b. We have come full circle with this news. And it must seem clear to the Russians as well that this is part of the frenzied attempts to take down Trump - which have been nonstop right through every move he has made that we have analyzed here for its positive aspects. I thank the commenters for doing this - less and less is it happening on other sites.

I am coming to the conclusion that even though I voted for Jill Stein because of the sensibility of her programs, she could never have stood against this storm the way that Trump is capable of doing. He has been weathering such storms all his life and probably, like FDR before him, relishes the contest. He's not perfect, for sure, and he will make mistakes as all of us do, but somehow in its bewildered thrashing about this electoral season we found the perfect guy for this particular period in history. I really feel that is the case.

So, good on you, deplorables! You have done right by your country.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 1 2017 18:09 utc | 34

Russian expert on American affairs doesn't think US and Russia will have rapprochement or if it does, it will be merely to break apart Russian-Chinese ties.

Posted by: mischi | Feb 1 2017 18:29 utc | 35

Circe @ 29 said:"Remember, Trump making nice with Russia will always be just a façade; it's not real; it will never be genuine; it's just a temporary game. The goal will always be to weaken Russia; always. Trump will always put the interests of U.S. power (i.e. Empire) above any meaningful detente or Russian geopolitical perspective."

Yep, I believe you're right. This statement is my greatest concern over Trump. Guess where I disagree with your take, is on who's pulling his leavers. I believe the Empire's driving force is corporate, not zionistic ideology. IMO, Israel, is just another of the Empire's sycophants.

Posted by: ben | Feb 1 2017 18:55 utc | 36

The "Russian hack/fake news" multi-headed monster was born from the seventy-year relationship of OUN-B and the CIA. The fingerprints are all over it.

My theory is that all of this was planned in order to get the war in Ukraine restarted when Clinton was the presumptive winner. It's been used as blackmail against Trump since the election to get their war. It appears we're moving in that direction. We only need a false flag to get the western politicians calling for another war. Ukrainian nazis live inside the psychotic fantasy that they can destroy Russia and Jews and finally pure Ukrainian blood will rule the world. The US is hoping to use Ukraine as a rallying point to save NATO. Damned few Europeans will put up with a shooting war against Russia. In fact, the consequences are pretty clear. In a land war the west will either lose the current hold on Ukraine as the fascist regime collapses, or it will win a ground war against Russia, which means World War III.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Feb 1 2017 18:58 utc | 37

mischi @ 35: Thanks for the link.

Posted by: ben | Feb 1 2017 19:02 utc | 38

The real nature of the new Ukrainian government was on display recently:

Bandera is being celebrated across Ukraine as a national hero. In July he had a street named after him, also in Kiev, despite protests from the Jewish community.

As far as who engineered this situation, the Deep State actors included the U.S. State Department, British Foreign Office, CIA & MI6, USAID, and private foundations acting as fronts for covert action. The USAID blurb on their "2012-2016 Ukraine-US Country Cooperation Development Strategy" is pretty typical propaganda:
Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market‐based economy. The United States Government (USG) maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy.

What manner of idiot actually believes this drivel? Loyal readers of the Guardian,the New York Times and the Washington Post. Amusingly the neoconservative press outlets and the progressive press outlets in the United States, are united in refusing to cover the Ukraine story in any depth - much like their coverage of Syria and the "White Hats."

In reality the Ukrainian economy looks very, very similar to Russia in the 1990s under Boris Yeltsin and the oligarchs; take Victor Pinchuk who was a top donor to Hillary Clinton's foundation, working off the same model as Boris Berezovsky and Michael Khodorkovsky in Russia:

It’s important to note that Pinchuk was a big supporter of the Maidan coup…a foreign policy debacle that Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland (another Hillary Clinton state department protege) helped spearhead. From 2009 up to 2013 (the year the Ukrainian coup erupted), the Clinton Foundation received at least $8.6 million from the Victor Pinchuk Foundation, which is headquartered in Kiev.

Ultimately, this is all the same "Project for a New American Century" BS from the late 1990s that's been directing U.S. foreign policy ever since. Trump entering office has thrown a major wrench into the workings of this effort, which has been a gross failure everywhere, from Afghanistan to Iraq to Libya to Syria to Georgia to the Ukraine, with little to show for it other than a huge pile of corpses and devastated economies.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 1 2017 19:03 utc | 39

@36 ben

Then how do you explain Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and soon to come Iran considering all these wars indicate the Zionist plan Yinon, Clean Break, PNAC based on Clean Break by whatever name? This was all authored and manoeuvred by Zionists for Israel's benefit. A new resolution is floating again in the House giving Trump authorization to attack Iran at any time without further consultation with Congress. The resolution was pushed by Aipac through one of its shills in Congress who switched Districts in Flda. with Wasserman Schultz. They're all suborned to do Israel's bidding, and Trump as well as he has already proven. Iran is next; it's the ultimate goal, and it'll be attacked because Zionists wanted it that way all along. They tried to neutralize Iran via the fake green revolution under Obama, intending to foment chaos as with Syria, but that didn't work, so there's only one way left to take down Iran. Zionists are at the bottom of all of this. The reason I keep harping on the Zionist issue is because they've done catastrophic damage already. Why shouldn't I slam and slam and slam them again for the destruction they've caused and the corruption they inflict on U.S. democracy, not to mention the decades of pain they've inflicted on Palestinians? Zionism is a global menace.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 19:18 utc | 40

nf @ 39 said:

"Trump entering office has thrown a major wrench into the workings of this effort, which has been a gross failure everywhere, from Afghanistan to Iraq to Libya to Syria to Georgia to the Ukraine, with little to show for it other than a huge pile of corpses and devastated economies.

I'd love to believe this, but I just can't. The coup in the Ukraine was fostered by the PNAC cabal, and IMO, the Corporate Empire that spawned them (PNAC), cares little about "gross failures everywhere". In state failures, theft is easy.

Posted by: ben | Feb 1 2017 19:23 utc | 41

P. S...."In state failures, theft is easy"...AKA "capturing market share"

Posted by: ben | Feb 1 2017 19:25 utc | 42

x ... Kaliningrad... Won't happen. It's too important to Russia (only d-w outlet to Baltic/North Sea outside the sometimes frozen and easily blockaded Bothnia.

Besides, Poland and Lithuania have made clear in the past that neither covets it. The only country with a strong historical claim would be Germany, which would (severely) upset Poland, and would simply be passing an exclave from one power to another.

Perhaps it would be gifted to USA as a 53rd (? lost count) state, to be called Triump.

Posted by: Petra | Feb 1 2017 19:48 utc | 43

@40, Circe you suffer from idee fixe, the perception that all events that take place in the world are due to the action of a single all-powerful entity, be it the Bilderbergers or Satan or the UFO people or the Zionists or whatever. This is why people generally roll their eyes over your posts. No matter the topic, its "the Zionists are behind it." For example, "the rise of the neo-Nazi fascists in the Ukraine was a Zionist plot of some sort to encourage Jewish immigration to Israel." If Clinton had won, it'd have been a successful Zionist plot. But since Trump won, that was also a successful Zionist plot. You should just limit your posts to "It's a Zionist plot!" and be done with it.

@41 Obviously the defection/firing of many State Department executives and conflict between the CIA bureaucrats and Trump administration will disrupt the smooth functioning of the Deep State apparatus and lead to all kinds of consternation in places like Saudi Arabia, Israel, Ukraine, etc. As far as China, with Tillerson in place, it's just going to be maneuvering for ExxonMobil contracts, really. Tillerson's bluster over China in the South Seas has to do with the Vietnam-Exxon contract, nothing else:

Basically, the facade of "promoting democracy and human rights" has been stripped off the PNAC project and its now clear to all what it really is - pure power politics aimed at consolidating wealth in a few hands and impoverishing everyone else, both domestically and internationally. Even if most of Team Trump is for the PNAC plan, they'll find it much, much harder to implement now. They're at war with the media; foreign countries won't trust their promises; domestic political conflict is on the rise - bad news for Deep State agendas.

This is definitely influencing Ukraine which seems to have some kind of internal conflict going on with its oligarchs (who also control all the Ukrainian media). Poroshenko and Pinchuk, for example, seem to be at odds:

KIEV, Jan. 16 - Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko will go to the World Economic Forum in Davos (Switzerland), but he will not attend the Davos Ukrainian Lunch to be arranged by businessman and philanthropist Victor Pinchuk, presidential press secretary Svyatoslav Tsegolko said.

In contrast, if Clinton was running the show, it'd all be moving smoothly forward - towards WWIII, that is.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 1 2017 19:53 utc | 44

Kiev to Use UNSC Presidency to Defend Ukraine Against Russia - Poroshenko

On Tuesday, the UN Security Council held closed consultations on the situation in Donbass, calling upon the conflicting parties to immediately return to the ceasefire regime.

The UNSC presidency is held by each of the members in turn for one month, following the English alphabetical order of the member states' names. Ukrainian presidency is to be held until the end of February. Ukraine is one of the council's non-permanent members. The country’s membership is to end on December 31, 2017.

what can the other members of the unsc think of porky's plans? i think noirette is right, they've all had their eyes shut, waiting for the corpse of ukraine to quit stinking so that it can be burned. now porky's drug it into the living room.

i think on this issue the us/uk is outnumbered on the unsc ... russia, china and even france have all got to have had their fill of this mess. china sees 'win-win' opportunity in ukraine and may well push for 'something to be done'? the us/uk will veto? it'll have to be the uk, won't it? and they won't, will they?

Posted by: jfl | Feb 1 2017 19:58 utc | 45

@32 noirette quote :

"The Ukraine Gvmt. of corrupt and loser oligarchs has only one card to play on the International stage -> Agression against Russia."


and who else is using that same card on the world stage today?????

Posted by: james | Feb 1 2017 20:03 utc | 46

@39 It's amazing in retrospect to think that the Ukraine coup could work. I suppose the thinking was that the Maidan protestors were all nice young progressive people looking for office jobs in Brussels, Crimea would be a NATO base and the Russians would just roll over. Then all these nasty nationalist anti-semites spring up and spoil everything. Didn't they like the cookies? Somebody should ask McCain if he supports that kind of behaviour.

Posted by: dh | Feb 1 2017 20:07 utc | 47

@40 Circe

It's sometimes very hard to decide whether a particular policy is the way it is because of evil or stupidity, especially when many of the people involved in making it are both evil and stupid. I agree with you that the Zionists are an influential faction in US decision making, especially when it involves the middle east. But much of the motivation for US wars is derived from a desire by the US corporate sector to dominate and exploit, and not simply destroy for the benefit of Israel. For instance, one of of the first things the US tried to do in Iraq after they conquered it was to establish a flat tax. They didn't do this because they thought it would damage Iraq, they did it because they were Republican ideologues who saw Iraq as a blank slate where they could implement all their favorite ideas.
A large part of the US leadership really thought they could turn Iraq into an American puppet state for the benefit of US corporations. They thought they just had to put a 'reliable' puppet like Ahmed Chalabi in power. They assumed the Shite majority in Iraq would be so grateful that the US had ended Sunni domination that they would be easily manipulated. They thought control of the oil reserves of the middle east would give them a powerful tool that would allow them to control the Chinese. This was all part of an attempt to use US military power to reverse the decline in US economic power and influence. And it failed badly. But just because the US's failed wars have been of some short term benefit to Israel doesn't prove that was the primary motivation for starting these wars in the first place.

Posted by: Glenn Brown | Feb 1 2017 20:24 utc | 48

@Curtis, 15.

A friend loaned me Friedman's book Flashpoints.

The moment you see anything (books, videos, forecasts etc.) which has a name of Friedman or title of STRATFOR on it--throw it away and then wash your hands. You will stay saner and more educated by avoiding anything which comes under George Friedman's pen. The guy (as well as his "organization") is one the biggest phonies one can find. His "military" views are those of an amateur. I remember reading his "forecast" on possible war between US and Russia in Ukraine--I had to pinch myself.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Feb 1 2017 20:32 utc | 49

@1 blues, 'The longer I live, the more I think that there is a "deep CIA" that is the real, genuine deep state. Not the DotGov, or even the DotMil. Not the City of London, not Wall Street, nor Rothschild, nor the pseudo-Jews who pretend to love Israel.'

it is wall street though, blues. that's where the dulles boys came from. that's who runs the cia. the entire foreign policy apparatus of the usa is dedicated to maintaining and increasing the wealth of the - primarily american - one-tenth of one percent.

sure there are lots of degenerates in it 'for the fun of it' among the rank and file at langley. but they all know who they work for.

Posted by: jfl | Feb 1 2017 20:42 utc | 50


I agree that the cover is being pulled away on PNAC exposing pure power politics aimed at consolidating wealth in a few hands and impoverishing everyone else, both domestically and internationally. Um...and who exactly are those few?

The reasons you gave for it being harder to implement have to do with people's rising level of awareness due to the grave consequences of war ergo its growing unpopularity. Enter Trump to distract the masses into believing that he has their best interests at heart; and if there's one thing Trump is good at is providing the grand distraction. He's gonna bring back steel and coal (pipe dream); he's gonna drill everywhere and cover Indian land with pipelines promising jobs; and he says that it's not too late to take Iraq's oil; all a ruse to get Americans to believe that there's lots of gain to come; a grand distraction. Obviously he's talking to the Rust and Appalachia belts and some southern states because no one outside those areas is stupid enough to believe him. Iran has immense oil and gas reserves; he'll find a way to sell that windfall and drive his Islamophobic narrative (Goebbels hasbara) while he escalates hostility with Iran.

Regarding your ridicule; it's meaningless, because all the proof is there. So lemme just shake it off. Tell me something: why is it that the authors of PNAC are mostly Zionists? Why is it that Zionists were in charge of Defense policy (Perle, Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith) when the plan started to be implemented with the invasion of Iraq? PNAC is still the plan; Trump is merely gonna sugar-coat it, make it look like it now benefits America first; that's all.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 20:50 utc | 51

@48 "They didn't do this because they thought it would damage Iraq, they did it because they were Republican ideologues who saw Iraq as a blank slate where they could implement all their favorite ideas."

Sure take over the country, disband the army, install a new government, create a new tax system. The Iraqis will love us for it.

Perhaps, to be kind, it can be blamed on good old American optimism and/or wishful thinking though I suspect the Israelis knew better.

Posted by: dh | Feb 1 2017 20:51 utc | 52

Flynn just threatened Iran in a vocal official WH press release: You're officially on notice!" Put this in the context of the active bill floating in the House intended to give Trump blanket authorization to attack Iran at any time. Trump - MORE OF THE SAME NEO-CRAP.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 21:17 utc | 53

Why are they called "Nazi" battalions?
Are they Germans?
Are they highly trained and deeply committed, as the SS or Wehrmacht?

Or was the label selected to enflame and provoke, inasmuch as our Pavlovian conditioners have trained us to equate "Nazi" with "evil?"

Based on absolutely no other information, I speculate the label was chosen by Nuland Kagan specifically for its ability to evoke hatred.

Somebody prove me wrong.

Posted by: Croesus | Feb 1 2017 21:22 utc | 54

Does Trump read Shakespeare?
Prospero conjures 3 tempests in order to expose sinners, bring them to repentance, marry off his dau, and return to his "old clothes" and old life, but with a new attitude and reconciled with those who thought they had killed him.

The initial action, then, is to 'split the ship asunder,' in order to terrify the survivors, put them in situations where their worst selves are revealed to them, to their mates and to all the world. Don't know if they wore pink hats. In this split wide open condition, new, reforming ideas can be planted.
Then Prospero begins the process of bringing them to repentance.

Or not.
Hope springs eternal.

Posted by: Croesus | Feb 1 2017 21:30 utc | 55

@51, Circe your argument works just as well if you replace "Zionists" with "the House of Saud", which is a monarchy that relies on extreme Wahhabi-Salafist doctrine to keep its grip on power. And if you look at how the House of Saud stashes its oil money in American and British and Swiss funds all ties to the PNAC agenda, you could claim that it is the House of Saudi pulling all the strings, etc. Look at Craig Unger's House of Saud, House of Bush; look at Stevel Coll's "The Bin Ladens". This also explains how the pro-democracy Arab Spring movement was crushed with the assistance of the United States - the Saudis and their GCC friends financed radical Wahhabist terrorism in Arab Spring countries to get rid of the secular pro-democracy groups, from Egypt to Libya to Syria, and crushed them with tanks in Bahrain, while the U.S. State Department, so called "promoter of democracy and human rights" stood by and watched. So it must be the House of Saud controlling all events, right?

And that argument also works well if you replace "Zionists" with "international oil corporations and their shareholders (investment banks)" which are based in Britain and the United States, but use a vast network of offshore entities to move funds, and whose source of wealth, oil and gas fields, are spread all over the world. In this picture, Israel and Saudi Arabia are merely part of their arsenal for controlling the world; they are the puppets. And there's good evidence of this. When an oil corporation wants to support a particularly nasty dictatorship in Africa that the U.S. finds too embarrassing, like Equatorial Guinea, guess who comes in with paramiltary training and weapons to prop it up? The Israelis, that's who, all over the world. Who gives them the green light? The U.S. State Department - which dances to the tune of the banks and oil corporations - in fact, that's one reason Obama gave them the ten-year $38 billion military assistance plan.

Or you can say, no, it's the military-industrial complex controlling all events, the arms manufacturers and the Pentagon & State Department bureaucrats and the Congressmembers who approve the contracts and the $600 billion military budget and all the other shady federal intelligence agencies, from CIA to DOE to NRO to DIA, they're the masters of the world, and everyone else, the oil corporations and Israelis and Saudis, they are merely bit actors in this picture.

But really, it's all of the above, to different degrees, in different places, for different reasons. Now, if we look at the developing situation with Iran, for example, Netanyahu in Israel and the House of Saud are both paranoid about the lifting of sanctions on Iran, just as Poroshenko in Ukraine is paranoid about the lifting of sanctions on Russia. But on the other hand, international oil corporations and arms dealers see Iran as a market, look at Boeing's $19 billion deal there. Exxon and Chevron would just love to get some oil&gas development contracts with Iran, it would boost their bottom line. And notice, Tillerson of ExxonMobil is going to be running the State Department?

Now would Trump or Clinton be more willing to listen to an argument like "Tell Israel and Saudi Arabia to get over their paranoid fears and cut an economic deal with Iran, and do the same with Ukraine, and get rid of sanctions on Russia"? I think it's pretty obvious that the answer is Trump is more likely to do this than Clinton would have been.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 1 2017 21:47 utc | 56

@ Posted by: jfl | Feb 1, 2017 3:42:35 PM | 50

it is wall street though, blues. that's where the dulles boys came from. that's who runs the cia. the entire foreign policy apparatus of the usa is dedicated to maintaining and increasing the wealth of the - primarily american - one-tenth of one percent.

sure there are lots of degenerates in it 'for the fun of it' among the rank and file at langley. but they all know who they work for.


CIA Clandestine Services are the lead wolves of the pack, closely followed by MI6, CSIS, ASIS & NZSIS & the entire Five-Eyes (HUMINT/SIGINT/GEOINT/MI/Domestic INT), and then the 2nd Tier Nine-Eyes ... all inter-operable/co-ordinated at the Supra-National Entity entity level that doesn't fully answer to the known domestic laws/regulations of their own countries let alone International law ... not truly in service of, nor truly fully controlled by their host nation States nor host sovereign(?) governments ... but ultimately for the benefit of the 0.01%.

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 21:49 utc | 57

@34 julian'a.. regarding your first paragraph - we're not talking ordinary people who think like you and i...we're talking about folks with a view on reality in terms of 'priorities' so as to be completely unintelligible to us, you think 'money' or 'power' - who gets it, who controls it, and how do you get more of it / take it away from someone else... that's what is driving so much of international conflict.. all the surface explanations are a smokescreen the msm doesn't want anyone to see past.. anyone coming out and claiming it's about stealing resources or controlling assets, will never happen..

@50 jfl.. ditto much of your comments..

Posted by: james | Feb 1 2017 22:02 utc | 58

As Circe noted, Flynn just read Iran the riot act.

I suspect that within days we will know just how serious Trump is about starting a war. If the war drums start then it's on. Isn't it ironic that those sons of whores, the MSM, will not likely be on board this time around? That Kenyan drone-striking secret Muslim Obama probably won't like it either.

This all puts Putin in bit of a bind. I'm not suggesting he was sleeping at the switch, I don't think he sleeps at all. But if Steve Fucking Bannon decides to have at it with Iran then where does that leave him? Whatever warm and fuzzy vibe was emanating from the Donald up till now is gone baby gone.

Iran is a brother in arms with Russia and almost a full-patch member of the Shanghai club. Jesus Christ, talk about throwing down the gauntlet. That's Stevie for you.

I don't know if it's the Zionists what done it or that damned Deep state. But this much-heralded coming entente with Russia may arrive stillborn.

Posted by: peter | Feb 1 2017 22:03 utc | 59

@ Posted by: Circe | Feb 1, 2017 4:17:09 PM | 53

You're officially on notice!

It's like being told off by the Hall Monitor. Ooh, am sure the Iranians are absolutely quaking in their boots, Not!

As likely to go to War with Iran, as North Korea, China, or Russia. Hence, not very likely at all ... though a calibrated strategy of 'Tension' does have it's uses.

War with the above would no longer allow the 0.01% to play their games with Terra & Humanity as if they were pseudo-Zeus clones on Mount Olympus. Living out their last final days underground in a 'Luxurious Bunker', just isn't attractive to 'em. Yet, with high risk/stakes games ... accidents can happen ...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 22:03 utc | 60

Re a war with Russia as opposed to Rapprochement:

Senate Confirms Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State (ABC News)

Senators voted 56-43 largely along party lines to approve Tillerson's nomination to be the nation's chief diplomat...

But Republicans had the numbers to push Tillerson's nomination through. They got help from several Democrats who crossed party lines.

Tillerson's ties to Russia and his stand on sanctioning Moscow have been a point of contention...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 1 2017 22:22 utc | 61

Croesus @ 54:

These Ukrainian militias are called "Nazi battalions", however sloppy the description appears to you, because they all more or less swear loyalty and allegiance to Stepan Bandera and the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists / Bandera (OUNb) who in the past collaborated with Nazi Germany. The fact that Bandera himself was betrayed by one of his followers and was imprisoned by the Nazis does not neutralise or nullify his association with them, or excuse his war crimes against Polish, Jewish and other civilians. Moreover this Banderite loyalty was nurtured by diaspora Ukrainians in Canada and the US, many of whom were given safe haven by those countries after WW2.

I don't know the extent of foreign participation in these "battalions". I believe there had been a Swedish guy, Mikael something or after (I forget his surname) who had been involved with them. Croatian citizens are known to have fought with them. Chechen headchoppers and other jihadis may have fought with them too. So there is a possibility that EU citizens, Germans among them, may have fought with these militas.

As for their training and commitment, I suspect they've had foreign training (US? Israeli? Canadian? British?) and they're probably about as deeply committed as their next battle against the Donbass fighters (many of whom are Soviet military veterans who fought in Afghanistan during the 1980s and have kept their weapons) will demonstrate.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 1 2017 22:29 utc | 62

@59 If Trump decides to attack Iran watch the MSM do a swift U-turn. Suddenly it will be...'Like him or not we must support the President.'

Posted by: dh | Feb 1 2017 22:44 utc | 63

Trump via Flynn has the gall to blame Iran for the Yemeni Houthi attack on a Saudi Vessel. Flynn is also accusing Iran alleging the Houthis threatened U.S. AND allied vessels. Are they looking to pin false flag on Iran? First Trump recruits Saudis for safe zones, now this. So the Saudis and Trump are deep in bed together; the image is revolting. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!

Iran tested intermediary missiles 600kms range; that's nothing. What's Trumpster up to? This is more than a man-baby tantrum.

Iran has a right to have defensive weapons seeing as Saudis are bombing Yemen next door.

Neocon trumpster's losing it. Listen to Flynn; he's one scary-loco neocon. Netanyahu's peeing pants with glee. Trump crazy train just left the station headed for Iran.

Told ya...

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 22:58 utc | 64

Where are those who cry for immigrants whose visas will be delayed 120 day as horrible thing Trump has done?

No one condemned Trump for silence about Donbass genocide and terrorism.

Direct evidence of Nazis shelling in Donbass:

For deeper background of the conflict from 2014:

Posted by: Kalen | Feb 1 2017 23:18 utc | 65


Ahhhh....WAR, the instant crazy glue Trump needs to rally everyone around the flag. What could be better; everyone united red WHITE and blue under one cause? Demonize and bomb Iran. It's like I warned; Trump is Cheney on steroids. Even Dubya didn't want to escalate with Iran. That's where Cheney and Bush differed. No wonder Cheney was all smiles at inauguration. It takes a lot to make Cheney smile. Trump is definitely making Israel Great Again.

Now you know that getting Iran has nothing to do with nukes and missiles. This was the long-time PNAC goal. Trump wants all those vast gas and oil reserves. He's one dumb m.f. if he thinks he's gonna get his tiny hands on all that wealth.

Hope China's ready to put a leash on Madman and his Mad dog.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 23:19 utc | 66

What was the one thing that Clinton offered the Deep State that Trump couldn't offer?

War with Russia.

Expect the false flag any moment now.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Feb 1 2017 23:26 utc | 67

Are the Saudis; U.S. and Zionist proxies using Yemen to trigger WWIII? Also, why would the trumpster include Yemen in his safe zones plan when speaking the Saudis. Today's press briefing by Flynn repeatedly blamed Iran for alleged Houthi defensive attacks against Saudis inflicting genocide against the Yemeni. Saudis are not only killing Yemeni civilians by the thousands but are provoking a serious famine threatening the lives of millions of Yemeni and at least half a million Yemeni children. These are f...king dirt poor people; while the Saudis pigs are gorging in the trough of wealth! This is a proxy war intended to trigger war with Iran and Trump is already resorting to dirty tricks.

The Trump administration is starting to fudge the facts pretending that the Houthi attacks against the Saudis are a trial run for attacks against U.S. vessels. This is sick and underhanded Zionist goebbel hasbara.

Why did the U.S. just recently send billions worth in weaponry to help the Saudis fight a war against an impoverished nation dying of hunger? There's only one answer that fits: the target is Iran.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 23:43 utc | 68

This is the 8-year old American girl slaughtered by the Navy Seals that attacked Yemen, but Trump is crying profuse tears over the Navy Seal killed in the mission instead.


Posted by: Circe | Feb 1 2017 23:53 utc | 69

In response to "Croesus", 54.

You ask - "Why are they called "Nazi" battalions?
"Are they Germans?
"Are they highly trained and deeply committed, as the SS or Wehrmacht?"

It's a fair question, particularly since the term "Nazi" is now used indiscriminately and often simply means "someone whose views I don't agree with". In the case of these battalions, however, there is some justification for using the term:-

- Some characteristics can match or are fairly close - insignia, salutes, terminology, though those characteristics are not as evident as they were. Many modern Ukrainian Nazis are descended from those who fought for or assisted the original Nazis and have retained the old loyalties. In addition we tend to associate ultra-nationalism, particularly when combined with white supremacism, with Nazism. I think, allowing for differences in scale, you can also draw a parallel between the conduct of the more specialist Nazi units in previous times and the treatment of some civilians, mainly in the Donbas over to Odessa, today. You will also have noticed that there are a few Jewish groups who are alarmed by the rhetoric of the "Banderites" and who do see a parallel there as well.

Some characteristics don't match. As you point out, they are neither highly trained nor, except I think for a very few, German.

"Nazi", or "Neo-Nazi", therefore, is about as accurate a term as you can get for this set of fighters in the Ukraine. Don't forget that the original Nazis were themselves not at all a homogeneous group, and many weren't German.

Posted by: EnglishOutsider | Feb 2 2017 0:16 utc | 70

Glenn Brown@48

The American ideological attempt to reshape Iraq is EXACTLY what the USSR tried to do in Afghanistan. Hubris, or panic as they see the wheels of their own corrupt system coming off.

Posted by: P walker | Feb 2 2017 0:19 utc | 71

As I commented at Sputnik's article about the Houthi's being accused of wanting to target coalition vessels, well, they're entirely within their rights to do so since it's the coalition that's waging war on the Houthis and Yemen. You know, you'd think they'd think for a second or two before opening their yapper.

If it's discovered that you hired a hit man to do your dirty work for you, then you shouldn't be surprised when you get shot at by those you tried to kill.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 2 2017 0:34 utc | 72

Give McStain and Graham a box of grenades and send them over to fight for what they believe in.

Posted by: Secret Agent | Feb 2 2017 1:09 utc | 73

Breaking news! OMG the goebbel hasbara begins:

Kayleigh McEnany, Trump's mouthpiece on the cable news punditry circuit just directly blamed Iran for the Houthi attack on the Saudi ship; she actually said speaking on Iran lying to justify the threat against Iran.: They not only fired a ballistic missile, they also attacked a Saudi ship, a Saudi ship which U.S. defense analysts have said; they attacked a ship thinking it might have been an American ship or it might have been a dress-rehearsal for an attack on the USS Cole...that's from defense analysts.

Methinks the Trump administration has yellow-cake fever. What else are they freaking going to fabricate??? U.S. defense analysts ass, more like Mossad/Likudnik intelligence said!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 1:47 utc | 74

Given the unprecedented nature of Flynn's threat during a routine press conference combined with other behavior--not events in Ukraine--I don't see any proof that Trump has dropped the attempt at Full Spectrum Domination, which means the assumed attempt at reconciliation with Russia by Trump is a red herring, as many have suggested. Yes, I would be very pleased to have Trump publically renounce the Full Spectrum Dominance Policy goal; but until he does so, myself and every other geopolitical analyst must acknowledge that goal is still being striven toward.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 2 2017 2:01 utc | 75

Fear of Moscow's 'Overreaction', NATO Halts Talks on Missile Defense With Kiev -

"The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) is putting off planned discussions with Ukraine on missile defense as that could worsen relations with Russia, US media report."

"MOSCOW (Sputnik) – According to the newspaper, NATO diplomats are currently discussing ways to broaden dialogue with Russia, as US President Donald Trump has repeatedly expressed willingness to build better relations with Moscow."

"There is some political sensitivity in the engagement of Ukraine because obviously that could fuel an overreaction by the Russians," a NATO diplomat told The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday"

Posted by: h | Feb 2 2017 2:05 utc | 76

syriana,yemeni,ukrainia,iraqi,haiti organ harvest nexus the young are worth big dollars body parts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
turkey and israel do heavy lifting here,g4s,serco and mighty dinner corpse dynecorp mossad cia run the show from haarp hit haiti init.
black lives matters funded by georgi every downed young black man a bounty of parts opportunity by the thousand.
in london g4s snatch squads hide behind the young knife crime epidemic.
blood harvest for the chosen long long lives for the soros is and prince fill battenberg gothas.

war has many opputunity not just sovreign wealth fund theft or c130 transportation of countries gold too tel aviv,london and new york.
where are the organs of syria and ukrainia gone.
this message will delete in mins
or soon
they will say off topic
ok whatever

Posted by: charles drake | Feb 2 2017 2:21 utc | 77

jfl @ 5:" the entire foreign policy apparatus of the usa is dedicated to maintaining and increasing the wealth of the - primarily american - one-tenth of one percent."

Perfect description of the so-called " American Interests," that our working class boys and girls, thru military adventurism, are expected to die for.

Posted by: ben | Feb 2 2017 2:29 utc | 78

Sorry, that would be jfl @ 50 above..

Posted by: ben | Feb 2 2017 2:30 utc | 79

The Circe Show continues...

... and welcomes a special guest (charles drake).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 2:36 utc | 80

@71 P Walker

No historical analogy is ever exactly equivalents, but while there are similarities between the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and the US's wars, there are also some significant differences. First, Russia was reacting to the intervention in Afghanistan by the Carter administration. Brzezinski deliberately set out to overthrow the existing Afghan government, in order to give Russia "it's own Vietnam". And Brzezinski deliberately supported the most reactionary, religiously fundamentalist groups in Sunni Islam to achieve this cynical goal. It was a tactic the US would repeat in the current Syrian war, where they supported foreign religious fanatics in an effort to destroy a secular government.
It's also worth noting that Afghanistan was on the Soviet Union's border, while the US prefers to attack countries on the other side of the planet. The Russian intervention was partly motivated by defensive issues. Russia didn't want a fanatical religious regime on its border, because they were concerned that such a regime would try to infiltrate the Soviet Union's Muslim republics.

Posted by: Glenn Brown | Feb 2 2017 3:45 utc | 81

Posted by: charles drak | Feb 2 2017 3:47 utc | 82

Trump threatened to send U.S. troops to stop "bad hombres down there" unless the Mexican military does more to control them itself. Haha I think Trump wants to divert all attention from Ukraine to US

Posted by: Nick | Feb 2 2017 4:05 utc | 83

@80 Jack A. Rabbit argument, cat got your Trump propaganda script, or are you just stalking me again?

First quit with the guilt by association and the disparaging circus analogy. You're trying way too hard to get rid of me, again. FYI reminder: one blog police, got that?

Your Trump man-god really screwed up today and unfortunately for you, you have yet another indefensible fact to spin. From the Likudi analysts in the Trump Likud WH: They [Iran] not only fired a ballistic missile, they also attacked a Saudi ship, a Saudi ship which U.S. defense analysts have said; they attacked a ship thinking it might have been an American ship or it might have been a dress-rehearsal for an attack on the USS Cole...that's from defense analysts. And based on that piece of fiction; Trump is putting Iran on notice. Roflmao!

Now try explaining away that bullshit yellow cake equivalent coming from your man-god's mouthpiece, Flynn.

Jeffrey Lord, Trump's favorite spinmeister, newsflash, you're not his favorite; just suggested the National Guard should be sent to Berkley because students are rightly upset that Trump fan and alt-right Breitbart darling, Milo, was to deliver his usual inflammatory spiel.

Trumpsters only solution is to send in the Feds.

On the subject at hand; Poroshenko twists knife after assault on Avdiivka.:

Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 4:13 utc | 84

Attack on Iran isn't going to happen, Circe, no matter how much you'd like to see that happen. Israeli fantasies will remain just that, Israeli fantasies.

The actual deal here is that Israel is very, very worried about having to open its nuclear arsenal up to IAEA inspection. This is precisely why Netanyahu dropped opposition to the Iran nuclear deal in favor of making all this noise about Iranian ballistic missiles, which as you note, Iran can produce just like any other country. Really, they just ought to call it the Iranian space program; China could cooperate. Israel didn't like the fact that the IAEA recently voted on a proposal to oversee the Israeli nuclear weapons program:

The International Atomic Energy Agency's (IAEA) General Conference voted 61-43 against the resolution put forward by Egypt and backed by Turkey, Syria, Iran, Libya, and Iraq, as well as Russia, China. And South Africa. The resolution called for the international monitoring of the Israeli nuclear reactor in Dimona which is suspected of developing fissile material for Israel’s alleged nuclear arsenal that poses “a permanent threat to peace and security in the region.”
Didn't read about that in the American mass media, did you? Gosh I wonder why not. Zionists! Wall Street! Deep State! (Circe & Jackrabbit I think I found something you can agree on! The American mass media sucks.)

The scale of the global shitstorm that would be unleashed if Iran was attacked is hard to imagine, but you'd have Shia uprisings in Saudi Arabia, Hezbollah attacks on Israel, possible revolutions in Egypt and Jordan, full-scale chaos. EU countries with significant Iranian deals would cry foul, it'd basically be like the USSR invading Afghanistan in 1979, see #81. But perhaps this is the idea, right? Suck the United States into a dead-end war with Iran, leading to the inevitable collapse of the United States and its collapse to post-Cold War Russian-era Boris Yeltsin obscurity? That's how that would play out, in any case.

@Jackrabbit 80, now if Trump falls for this ploy, then he's going to be a Konstantin Chernenko, the predecessor to Mikhail Gorbachev, not Gorbachev himself. And here's one major factor:
. . . iran-air-to-buy-80-boeing-aircraft-first-such-deal-in-37-years

The agreement Iran’s national carrier reached with Boeing Co. to buy 80 aircraft valued at $16.6 billion is the first deal of its kind since 1979 -- and one that will force Congress and President-elect Donald Trump to balance their diplomatic priorities with U.S. job growth.

So what's it going to be? If I was a bookie I think I'd be happy with oh, 10:1 odds against an attack on Iran by Team Trump. What's your spread, Circe? Jackrabbit? As far as lifting sanctions on Russia, well, let's go with 5:1 in favor of odds being lifted. Cash or bitcoin only, please.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 2 2017 4:40 utc | 85

Why can't Russia send generators to Donetsk Ukraine like it did to Crimea? The people under Ukrainian assault are suffering extreme sub-zero temperatures with electric grid down. It must be unbearable for them. There's a humanitarian crisis happening there. Why is only Chinese media reporting this?

Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 4:49 utc | 86


There are more similarities between the USA and USSR and both appear to be in the same track. As some note, Afghanistan is where empires go to die.

Posted by: P walker | Feb 2 2017 5:14 utc | 87


Attack on Iran isn't going to happen, Circe, no matter how much you'd like to see that happen.

I don't need your damn sarc. Quit thinking you're the sharpest pencil around.

Do you really think Zionists/Trump want to wack Iran only because of nuke paranoia or measly ballistic missiles?

How about this reason:

and because of its vast oil and gas reserves Iran is a potential geopolitical threat to Israel and KSA:

Why do you think Zionists wanted to bring down Iraq? It wasn't the WMDs and it isn't WMDs with Iran either. Multiply the real reason Iraq was invaded by 10. That's how threatened Zionists feel about Iran. Syria was also about aborting Iran's geopolitical potential (pipelines, rail oil and gas to EU through Syria)

Oh, and don't go into the bookie trade.:

The U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill on Thursday that would block the sale of commercial aircraft to Iran, a bid to stop sales by Boeing and Airbus that have already been approved by President Barack Obama's administration.

The bill passed the Republican-led House by 243-174 largely along party lines. Eight Democrats joined Republicans in favor. All 174 "no" votes were from Democrats.

The measure would bar U.S. Treasury Department from issuing licenses that U.S. banks would need to finance sales of commercial aircraft, the latest in a series of efforts by congressional Republicans to counteract the international nuclear deal between Iran, the United States and other world powers.

Just like the Resolution authorizing Trump to attack Iran is active in the House and can easily become law, so is the above bill, which the majority of Democrats voted against, still active. Republicans are itching to push it through. This threat by the Trump WH earlier against Iran might be just the nudge Republicans need to push it past the Senate.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 5:47 utc | 88

nonsense factory @85

I agree. War with Iran makes no sense for anyone with an 'America First' outlook.

'Shia Crescent'/'Greater Israel', Ukraine, etc. are bargaining chips for drawing Russia away from China's orbit.

This will play out over years (Trump will have 8).

The artic has more hydrocarbons that what remains in ME. Why Tillerson makes a great SS.

As businessmen, Trump/Tillerson will keep their eyes on the prize.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 5:53 utc | 89

Circe @88

Congress doesn't make war. They pay for it (or not).

Does disinfo help or hurt you're show's ratings?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 6:18 utc | 90


I agree. War with Iran makes no sense for anyone with an 'America First' outlook.

Since America has basically become the United States of Israel; his 'America First' is very misleading. Trump's escalating rhetoric seems to differ from your hopeful projection. Maybe you should call him up and suggest he stop making repeated threats against Iran so you don't discredit your credibility every second day.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 6:19 utc | 91

>> The U.S. House of Representatives passed a
>> bill on Thursday that would block the sale
>> of commercial aircraft to Iran, a bid to
>> stop sales by Boeing and Airbus that have
>> already been approved by President Barack
>> Obama's administration.

1. Doesn't that just open the door for aircraft sales from Russian or Chinese manufacturers?

2. Frankly I don't know why Iran tries to do business with the Oceania. Why try to shake the hand that punches you?

Posted by: dumbass | Feb 2 2017 6:29 utc | 92

Circe @91:

Trump's escalating rhetoric ...
Like when he tweeted that McCain and Graham should stop trying to start WWIII?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 2 2017 6:30 utc | 93

@91 Circe; when people make rational arguments and the response is irrational, the two plausible reasons are that the person is not susceptible to rational arguments, or, that they are playing some kind of PR game on behalf of a third party - perhaps the House of Saud, perhaps the Israeli pro-Clinton-faction. This kind of thing is endemic in the the Middle East, isn't it?

Officials declined to say whether the military option was on the table, although Pentagon spokesman Christopher Sherwood said: "The U.S. military has not changed its posture in response to the Iranian test missile launch" on Sunday. . .

On the other hand, from that same article, we have McCain aligning with Flynn:

“‘On notice’ means that if they continue what is obviously breaking the Iran agreement, appropriate actions will be taken,” Sen. John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told The Daily Beast. “It’s important to say to the Iranians that we know you have violated the treaty, and you’re on notice now… that's exactly the way to treat them.”

McCain is of course, a complete tool of Saudi Arabia; it wasn't "the Zionists" who dumped $1 million into his private foundation in Arizona, it was the Saudis. So maybe this is all a big Saudi plot, Circe? Wahhabists running the show? There's a good argument for this; Team Trump didn't sanction the Wahhabists or ban Saudi, Qatari, Egyptian, etc. immigration. Or maybe you have Saudi Republicans aligning with Israeli Democrats to pressure Trump into supporting their agenda?

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 2 2017 7:01 utc | 94


No-oh; that a case of the big black pot calling the two kettles black.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 2 2017 7:01 utc | 95

P.S. Here's something interesting:

On March 21, The Islamic Republic of Iran will cease using the U.S. dollar in all of its financial reporting. The decision to stop using the dollar as a reference has been in the works for some time but was expedited after the Trump administration decided to include Iran as one of the seven countries banned from entering the United States.
That could bring the banks in behind the Israeli-Saudi alliance. If so, mass chaos will result. And, additionally, ISIS will not be defeated, without Iran's assistance in Mosul and elsewhere. In any case, last time there was a threat to attack Iran, there was U.S. military command mutiny in some sectors - but the top brass is still in bed with the Saudis:
Mr Mattis spoke with Saudi Arabia's defence minister, Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on the phone on Tuesday.

The Saudis do pay well. . . I wonder how this will play out, I really do.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 2 2017 7:20 utc | 96

Thanks for the information Jen | 62 and English Outsider |70.

Posted by: Croesus | Feb 2 2017 8:41 utc | 97

Ukrainian president plans referendum on NATO membership

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 2 2017 9:10 utc | 98

No surprise this, given the influence of Justin Trudeau's 'superminister' of Global Affairs Chrystia Freeland, a rabid Ukrainian ultranationalist and Russophobe. As well, former Canadian FM Stephane Dion becomes Ambassador to the EU and will work it from there.

Canada 'Looking At All Options' For Improving Support For Ukraine, Sajjan Says

"Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says the federal government is concerned about a new outbreak of fighting in Ukraine and is looking at ways to 'improve' Canada's military support to the country...'But one thing is for sure, that Canada remains committed to Ukraine."

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 2 2017 9:13 utc | 99

Russian Defense Ministry summons Ukrainian attache over An-26 plane incident (TASS)
MOSCOW, February 1. /TASS/. Russian Defense Ministry has voiced official protest to the Ukrainian military attache in Moscow over the actions of a Ukrainian Antonov-26 airlift turboprop in the vicinity of Russian oil drilling rigs in the Black Sea...

"The ministry offered a protest to the attache over an incident where an Antonov-26 turboprop of the Ukrainian Army made two runs-in at Tavrida and Krym-1 drilling rigs at a minimal admissible altitude, which jeopardized the safety and security of their personnel," he said, adding that the incident occurred between 11:30 and 12:00 Moscow Standard Time.

"... the Russian side sizes up the actions of the Ukrainian plane as a provocation," Gen Konashenkov said...

Defence Minister Sajjan looking to help Ukraine while Trump administration adopts low key approach to renewed fighting (Ottawa Citizen - CAN)
As fighting flared up again in eastern Ukraine, the Canadian government suggested it might consider additional support to Ukraine's government. Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan said he is concerned about the new outbreak of violence. Canada has committed ...

But in the U.S., under the new Trump administration, there appears to be a more welcoming approach to Russia and one that doesn’t appear to be too critical over the developments in Ukraine.

The Trump administration on Wednesday maintained a low-key approach to the latest flare-up of violence in eastern Ukraine, where the government accuses Russian-backed forces of stepping up attacks. The restrained tone may reflect the start of a new U.S. approach to dealing with Russia’s cross-border activity, even as top U.S. officials are pledging to support Ukraine’s sovereignty.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer had little to say on Wednesday when asked for the administration’s position on the renewed fighting that began over the weekend and persisted into early Wednesday. At least 10 people have been killed and dozens wounded. President Donald Trump has been “kept aware of developments” in Ukraine, Spicer said, and the White House will “have further updates as we go on.” It was not immediately clear when those updates would come...

@ Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 2, 2017 2:20:27 AM | 96

Mattis is an unreconstructed Iranophile/hater from way back. Yet, he is only one amongst many. Flynn is a diehard Wahhabist/Islamic Terrorist hunter. So there is some balance there re appointments. The CJCS & DNI/CIA direct influence in Council are diminished.

The UNSC meeting had the opportunity to denounce/punish/breach Iran for the supposed resolution breaches, which Iran CLEARLY didn't breach 'cause a conventional ballistic missile launch is A-OK, just some usual anti-Iran 'Rhetoric' for the gullible. The UNSC simply kicked the can down the road for investigation/review.

Your analysis as to why the Israelis ceased mentioning the Iran Nuclear program and the 'BOMB' is IMV, entirely correct. Their position diplomatically internationally is ever weaker ... so now they talk in abstracts, about 'Iranian Missiles'.

Re the the sorceress & helpers, they've again successfully derailed an entire thread, consuming again, so far, ~25% of this topic re 'Ukraine sabotage of US rapprochement' with endless OFF-Topic - Trump/Zionists and 'War with Iran/Zionists' claptrap. :( Just sayin'.

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 2 2017 9:19 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.