Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 14, 2017

The Flynn Defenestration Will Hamper Trump's Foreign Policy

Trump's National Security Advisor Flynn resigned after only three weeks in office. While I am certainly no fan of Flynn or of Trump I find this defenestration a dangerous event. It will hamper any big change in U.S. foreign policy that Trump may envision.

The resignation followed a highly orchestrated campaign against Flynn by intelligence officials, the media and some people within the White House.

After the election and Trump's unexpected win the Obama administration slapped sanctions on Russia and sent Russian embassy officials back to Moscow. This move was intended to blockade a Trump policy of better relations with Russia. Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador and, as a direct result, the Russian's did not respond tit for tat for the sanctions and expulsions. This was an absolutely positive move and in full accordance with announced Trump policies. Henry Kissinger made a similar move and visited the Russian embassy weeks before he became Nixon's NSC. During the 2012 election Obama made a similar "deal" with the Russians in a comparable situation:

President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.

Despite tens or hundreds of claimed White House leaks in the media I am still not sure what really happened next. Trump's enemies and some intelligence officials accused Flynn of lying about the phone calls with the Russian ambassador. It is unclear what the alleged lies really are and especially why they should matter. Obfuscation is part of any White House business. If Flynn had secretly talked with the Israeli ambassador (which he probably did) no one would have attacked him.

So why was Flynn really under pressure and why didn't Trump back him? It would have been easy for Trump to say: "I ordered Flynn to do that. Obama did similar. In both cases it was a GREAT success. USA! USA! USA!" Nobody would have been able to further attack Flynn over the issue after such a protective move.

But Trump, completely against his style, held his mouth and did nothing. What else happened in the White House that let him refrain from backing Flynn?

Sure, the real beef other people have with Flynn is not about Russia but other issues, like his plans to reform the intelligence services. But by throwing Flynn out like this Trump opened himself to further attacks.

As it looks now a rather small gang of current and former intelligence officials - with the help of the anti-Trump media - leaked Flynn out of his office. They will not stop there.

Now blood is in the street and the hyenas will lust for more. The Trump magic is broken. He has shown vulnerability. Now they will go after their next target within the Trump administration and then the next and the next until they have Trump isolated and by the balls. He just invited them to proceed. All major foreign policy moves he planned will be hampered. The detente with Russia has probably ended before it even started.

There is another, overlooked country where Flynn's position as NSC influenced policy decisions. Flynn had at times lobbied for Turkey and good relations with the Erdogan government. Even on the very day of the presidential election an op-ed of his damning Erdogan's enemy Gülen and lauding Turkey was published.

After Trump was inaugurated and again talked of no-fly-zones the Turkish president Erdogan made another of his famous 180 degree turns.

Erdogan had wanted a no-fly-zones (aka a Turkish protectorate) in Syria from the very beginning of the war. The Obama administration would not give him one and in the later years shunned him. Erdogan turned to Russia but was told that he would have to limit his ambitions in Syria: no no-fly-zone, no Turkish march to Manbij or Raqqa. Erdogan agreed. But after Trump talked of new sanctions  and Flynn was installed as NSC Erdogan again changed his position. He is now again calling for a no-fly-zone and is again promising to conquer Manbij (held by Kurds) and Raqqa (held by the Islamic State). (Any such attempt would be hopeless. The Turkish army and its Islamist proxy forces have tried to conquer the much smaller Al-Bab, held by the Islamic State, for over four month now and still fail at it.)

The Russian's will have taken note of such unreliable behavior. One wonders how Erdogan now feels as his lobbyist in a top position of the Trump administration is gone. If the Trump administration now acts against his plans will he creep back to Putin and ask for forgiveness? Would that be accepted?

Flynn is no big loss for the world, the U.S. or the Trump administration. But Trump has now lost the initiative. He long managed to set the media agenda for the day by this or that "outrageous" tweet or remark. Now this advantage has been taken away from him over some nonsense allegations and his lack of backing for one of his top people.

He will soon rue the day he let this happen.

Posted by b on February 14, 2017 at 17:42 UTC | Permalink

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I'm glad to see you'r backing away a bit from your high hopes in Tronald. By now it seems possible that we will experience the worst of all worlds with Tronald. Applied facism in the u.s. and the long neocon run in the rest of the world.

Posted by: Pnyx | Feb 14 2017 18:06 utc | 1

As you say, letting Flynn go over bogus allegations is totaly unlike Trump. So how do you explain it? I would say Flynn was let go over entirely different reasons and his minor misstep of putting Pence in an embarrassing position was just a convenient pretext. I think rational actors withing the Trump admin were worried about his reckless behavior (botched Yemen raid, for which he must have givent he go-ahead) and his dangerous threats against Iran (putting Iran officially on notice). This is just speculation, there may be other reasons, but what seems clear is that Trump would not have sacrificed Flynn for a triviality unless he had come to regret his choice of NSec Adviser for entirely different reasons.

Posted by: Jan Sammer | Feb 14 2017 18:32 utc | 2

Trump and Putin will meet first time in the summer, thats some 4 months away. That says it all that there no longer is any real interest by the US. And now the neocons and msm managed to fire Flynn.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 18:38 utc | 3

Such tea leaf reading has no end.

For example, one could posit that there was some disagreement between Trump and his underling, and that was the real reason Trump let the media devour him: to enforce obedience. i.e. if you deviate from what I say, I will feed you to the media as soon as it is suitable to me.

We don't know what was communicated to those within his power circle. The first instance of something, doesn't necessarily portend a pattern.

Posted by: Out of Istanbul | Feb 14 2017 18:41 utc | 4

Flynn's job wasn't the direction of the Outlaw US Empire's Imperial Policy. That's the job of tRump and tIllerson, the latter person has yet to be mentioned by any writer about Flynn's resignation I've seen. Mercouris's analysis at The Duran is perhaps the best I've read about the affair, but he doesn't see this as an attempt to derail tRump's policy goals, The Saker's reaction was 100% knee-jerk as I commented there. IMO, Flynn's departure does nothing to change the thrust of tRump's policy agenda; tIllerson who'll be directing it is no enemy of Putin or Russia. IMO, tRump's been reappraising his approach to China and its OBOR project since the Empire will lose out on an opportunity to make lots of money if it doesn't participate; same with Putin's EEU project. Note that both involve Iran, which is absolutely necessary to defeat Daesh. Remember, it was HRC and Neocon policy to use Daesh and its clones to attack OBOR and EEU projects while promoting TTP, TTIP, and South China Sea blockade, amongst others tRump will not utilize.

I see tRump and the Republican congress's domestic agenda as far more dangerous to the Common Man than tRump's Imperial Policy, which I see as a win based on trade policy alone. I highly suggest reading this Escobar analysis,

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 14 2017 18:44 utc | 5

Sean Spicer has just affirmed Nikki Haley's speech at the UN as being official Trump policy.

So much for hope .....

US President Donald Trump has been tough on Russia and expects Moscow to “return” the Crimea peninsula to Ukraine, the White House spokesman told reporters.

Addressing the resignation of National Security Adviser Michael Flynn – hounded by the media over his contacts with Russian diplomats prior to Trump’s inauguration – Spicer pointed out that Russia “seized” Crimea under the Obama administration and that the Trump-appointed ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley has “strongly denounced the Russian occupation.”

"President Trump has made it very clear that he expects the Russian government to de-escalate violence in the Ukraine and return Crimea," Spicer said at the daily news briefing on Tuesday. “At the same time, he fully expects to –and wants to – get along with Russia."

“Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Our Crimea-related sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns control of the peninsula to Ukraine,” Haley said at the UN Security Council meeting on February 2.

Posted by: woogs | Feb 14 2017 18:51 utc | 6

I am willing to sit back and watch what Trump does to see if possibly he can break some log jams in the Wash DC swamp, albeit I am thoroughly skeptical. But this blog and others have counselled caution in terms of waiting to see what Trump does and whether he might actually do some good for this country. So, OK. Let's see.

With this action with Flynn, let's just say that one of my last rays of hope are dying. Frankly, I've always felt Trump was in way over his head for various reasons, not the least of which is that he's used to being surrouned by yes men who jump to his every command. Who, other than Ivanka (and possibly Kushner), has the ability to really stand up to him and say no? And quite honestly, Trump has not been a successful businessman. He's a crook who's gotten away with a lot through various shifty, thieving means, with a lot of self-promotion that paid off for him. He was also backed up by stacks and gobs of his dad's money. He'd be a nobody without his dad. The main thing he did well, apparently, was reality tv. Big deal.

His cabinet inspires nothing in me but contempt. He's being run by people like Bannon & Erik Prince (via his sister, DeVos). He's surrounded himself with either a bunch of dunces - such as Rick Perry and Ben Carson - or a bunch of equally bad business crooks, who've gotten away with murder.

Now this business with Flynn. Trump's already walked back his big-talking words about the One China policy, and then he backed down to Shinzo Abe re continuing to pay for and staff military bases, etc.

Plus all Trump talks about domestically is building the g-damned useless senseless wall (which, if it's built, you can bet that Trump will make out like a bandit on it). We have insanely crumbling infrastructure in the US, like the Oroville Dam spillway (which was solid when it was built... 50 years ago), that needs to be repaired, fixed and/or replaced, but Trump keeps blathering about that idiotic wall just to please the White Supremacists. Super great.

I, too, wish really hard that Trump was something new and different, who would maybe change the course of the USA's insane foreign and domestic policies, even if just a little bit. Sadly, I'm simply not seeing it. Just looks like same old greedy avaricious rapacious NeoLiberal NeoCons with the patina of Republican super-nastiness overlaid. I'd love nothing more to be dead wrong and having everyone here pointing at me and laughing and saying "I told you so." Let's just say that I'm not counting on that happening.

Good luck to us all.

Posted by: RUKidding | Feb 14 2017 18:54 utc | 7

Well will we see retired general criminal betrayus next? neo-conns won this one.

Posted by: jo6pac | Feb 14 2017 18:54 utc | 8

Yeah, Trump has appointed two women to his cabinet. Look at their background.

One ran the WWE and the other is from Amway.

Can't get more "American" than that and it totally encapsulates the degeneracy of the United States of America.

Posted by: P Walker | Feb 14 2017 18:56 utc | 9

I think this is a mis-reading b.

Flynn might have violated a law called the Logan Act. And, if it was Trump that asked/ordered Flynn to talk with the Russians, then Trump could be impeached (in which case, BOTH Trump and Flynn would eventually depart).

Furthermore, Trump has been accused of being 'soft' on Russia and sympathetic to Putin. If Trump had fought for Flynn, then the view that Trump is compromised would have gained traction as it is hyped nonstop by Democrats and Democrat-friendly Media.

The campaign to de-legitimize Trump is in full swing. It consists of character assassination; lampooning of every mis-step; contrived protests; and portraying Trump as close to Putin. This is deadly serious, and the logical conclusion is an action to remove Trump (impeachment or 25th Amendment).

Trump and Flynn did what they had to do to protect the Administration.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Some here and elsewhere try to diminish support for Trump by attacking him as "Deep State" and/or attacking those that support him. I see this as part of the effort to de-legitimize Trump.

If the Deep State/Zionists/etc. are happy with Trump, then why this elaborate effort to de-legitimize him?

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

ASAP, Trump should talk to the American people about why friendly relations with Russia make sense. Trump may not want to appear to be over-eager but his enemies are trying their best to short-circuit any change in US policy.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 14 2017 18:57 utc | 10


Thanks for the link, perhaps the Flynn was kicked out because his views on Russia was not on par with the other deep state people?

The new hawkish tone on Crimea and russia in general by Haley tells how fractured Trumps policy really is.
A big win for neocons, nato eu. Prepare for cheering the coming weeks by.the same warmongers coming days,weeks.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 18:58 utc | 11

On the bright side, it didn't take long for this administration to reveal its shortcomings and to disabuse us all of any notion that things would get better.

I'm sure Putin is happy to know, too. He's been holding back in the belief that cooperation with the US was possible. Now, with that out of the way, time for Russia to just say "fuck it" and go on about its business sans any thought of the US.

Posted by: woogs | Feb 14 2017 19:06 utc | 12

America is becoming ungovernable. Welcome to the era of paralysis, precursor to the era of unraveling. However bad it is today, it'll be worse tomorrow. For Russia it'll be like never-ending Christmas...

Posted by: telescope | Feb 14 2017 19:17 utc | 13


I think that people like Trump and.Flynn really wanted this peace but it simply were too much hate, propaganda against russia that made all this impossible for Trump.

So tired with exceptionalists like Nikki haley, she have zero knowledge/degre in foreign topics.I mean crimea? Even obama stopped talking about that!

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 19:19 utc | 14

It was Sally Yates, acting Attorney Gen (later fired by Trump when she refused to defend the EO on refugees) that ordered the FBI investigation on Flynn and gave advise to Trump on his 'potential' offense under the Logan Act.

Posted by: Myrisa | Feb 14 2017 19:23 utc | 15

Anon@14: Trump won because he was a fighter that didn't back down. Where did that guy go?

There were all so of reasons to put a positive spin on what we all knew was a bag of mixed nuts regarding foreign policy. Seems like so much pissing up a rope now.

The one thing Trump was consistent on throughout was better relations with Russia. He has to know that is out the window now.

Did someone *get* to Trump to cause this turnaround on the one thing that likely is what put him over the finish line a to win the election? Frankly, I don't care at this point. It's a major---major sellout.

I've 'kept my powder dry' and have so far held back criticizing Trump. Hell, I voted for him!! But this bullshit regarding Russia can no longer be explained away as an outlier from Haley. This is Trump's policy.

Posted by: woogs | Feb 14 2017 19:33 utc | 16

Spicer and the entire tRump admin ought to read this about Crimea,

Crimea will be returned to Ukraine just as soon as the Outlaw US Empire returns what's known as the Mexican Cession to Mexico and the entire Black Hills region to the Sioux. The statement by Spicer is a far greater spanner into the works of the purported tRump Imperial Policy than Flynn's resignation. I rather doubt much more will be added to the Kremlin's position than what it's already said: "Russia's sovereignty over the Crimean peninsula is not up for discussion or dispute,"

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 14 2017 19:35 utc | 17

Do you think?

After the sham (or was that scam?) election between two true deplorables (tRump & Clinton) what should we expect?

Chaos? Secession (CA)? Revolution?

Let us hope so. Maybe the duhMuriKKKan people will finally have a real revolution and rid themselves of the current oligarchs/deep state/neo-cons/neo-libs etc.

Of course most duhMuriKKKans are too ignorant/stupid to give a fetid chunk of dingo kidneys and stand up for anything except their cars/trucks, favorite sport franchise, or shopping mall. Bunch of greedy and dumb schmucks.

But, there is hope.

Of course the way things are going maybe the US will provoke Iran into doing something stupid and then draw in China and Russia and all of our so-called leaders will get to grow mushroom clouds and put an end to this madness.

Well, I can hope, can I not?

Posted by: rg the lg | Feb 14 2017 19:38 utc | 18

Putin's not near as hopeful about improved relations with the US as he was in November. One of the reasons for that is he can see the possibility of Trump making a full reversal on his current practice of not criticizing Russia too harshly. Sean Spicer's remarks at today's press briefing might already be the beginning of that.

Flynn really pissed in the pickles. The fact that the Logan Act is a 200 years old or that it's never been used doesn't mean that it is no longer in effect. It's also worth remembering that when Obama reassured Medvedev that he would have more flexibility after the election he was in fact the POTUS.

I would hazard a guess that what Putin finds most unsettling about the Trump administration so far is its utter unpredictability. A close second might be some of the crazy-ass people Trump has surrounded himself with. Like Kellyanne Conway for one, Stephen Miller for another. They are bringing heat on his administration and undermining his effectiveness.

Posted by: peter | Feb 14 2017 19:45 utc | 19

Actually, Trump was set back by the (genuinely) popular protest movement that responded to his first week of executive savagery. He noticeably went quiet and the neolibs saw their chance to hit back via Flynn

Posted by: JakeS | Feb 14 2017 19:50 utc | 20

b - thanks for your post and clarity on your position here.. i would only quibble with your comment "But Trump, completely against his style, held his mouth and did nothing." i think his style is scatter brained to a degree folks are underestimating.. he has a lot on his plate and will have to concede to others views, especially in areas he is ignorant of - a prime area for him to be manipulated in - and there are probably a lot of these areas!

thanks for the many good comments here.. i agree strongly with some of @4 "We don't know what was communicated to those within his power circle. The first instance of something, doesn't necessarily portend a pattern."

@6 woogs... that is news from a few weeks ago... is that supposed to be something new? i am missing it.

@7 rukidding.. i agree with most of your post. thanks

@10 jr - i read that it (logan act) doesn't or can't be applied here... don't have the link to share this alternative perspective..

@13 telescope.. i agree with you!

@17 karlof1.. any 'deep state' or exceptional nation that wants to rule the world is going to always dispute the crimea move.. it is a given.. it is a bargaining chip, but frankly i think it is a useless one, other then to natter on about endless sanctions - a chip that is constantly used on iran and any other country that tries to step out of the world dominance order according to those powers that be.. it is tumultuous times for the world at this point as i see it - more pronounced then ever... russia will continue to hold to its position and the exceptional nation will continue to hold to what little it has - financial sanctioning and propaganda being a couple of there main tools still..

Posted by: james | Feb 14 2017 19:53 utc | 21


Indeed, what is Trump not to mention a guy like Flynn afraid of? Its not like them at all.
At the same time the hate everywhere on Trump is of course a major factor, also the muslim ban court ruling just last week. He cant afford more scandals now and that is perhaps why he backed off.

Yes Its obvious Trump's team havent talked at all about russia, everyone (flynn, trump, hailey etc) says different things. Very bad and sad development.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 19:55 utc | 22

Perhaps off topic, or actually right on topic considering what is going on nowadays and that “the only this left is to trust and believe the prophets.” Note the line “Then a great turnaround [change in conditions] will happen and it won’t be any more like it was under the rule of the tsars who were in charge of this empire before his assent to the throne,” and who will be the ones to first fire the weapons.

Posted by: 47 | Feb 14 2017 19:57 utc | 23

emptywheels post on this. fwiw....... always a good read....

Posted by: james | Feb 14 2017 20:00 utc | 24

"But Trump, completely against his style, held his mouth and did nothing. What else happened in the White House that let him refrain from backing Flynn?"

I am wondering if the problem is with Trump, not with Flynn. Flynn was gotten rid of because of something to do with Trump. According to the Saker, Flynn was Trump's back up man. And without Flynn, Trump is done;

"because now Trump will be alone, completely alone, facing the likes of Mattis and Pence – hard Cold Warrior types, ideological to the core, folks who want war and simply don’t care about reality.

"Again, Flynn was not my hero. But he was, by all accounts, Trump’s hero. And Trump betrayed him.

The consequences of this will be immense. For one thing, Trump is now clearly broken. It took the ‘deep state’ only weeks to castrate Trump and to make him bow to the powers that be." The Saker.

If we listen to Spicer's press conference it seems that the US is back to 'normal' and Crimea is expected to be given back to the Ukraine (although the US still wants good relationships with Russia Lol). Trump, according to Zerohedge has gatecrashed a wedding with Abe. So now the US has a president who is a down home boy, just like the other one, but with clear fascist tendencies. Trump would only have acted out of self interest. They've got something on him. He didn't act because he was bullied into asking Flynn to resign, he was blackmailed into it. Oh dear, hold on to your horses everyone.

Posted by: Winifred Kiddle | Feb 14 2017 20:03 utc | 25

James@21: When Haley gave that speech, all sorts of excuses were made for it .... she's not up to speed ... Trump doesn't have his team together ....... oh, it's alright, she met with Churkin later privately ....... did you see her delivery? like she didn't really mean it.

What is *news* now is that Spicer made it plain that the views espoused by Haley are official policy, with no room for doubt.

Posted by: woogs | Feb 14 2017 20:11 utc | 26

“Getting rid of Flynn, getting rid of an ally; it weakens him; it makes him more vulnerable,” Lendman said during an interview with Press TV on Tuesday.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 20:21 utc | 27

@Winifred Kiddle @25

Seems something like that, doesn't it? Trump's backing down, going silent, selling Flynn down the river with nary a wimper (to my knowledge).

As I stated, above, Trump is clearly in over his head. Thought he could take on the really really Big Boys and beat them into submission. If Trump was a different person - a different type of strong man - maybe he could've beat them back.

Frankly, I see Trump a super weak due to his clear deficiencies. Anyone who keeps whining endlessly about 3 million "illegal" voters and complaining about how allegedly he won the popular vote - and keeps on about it endlessly - well?? That's just stupid. Then his attack dog Kelleyanne starts hawking Ivanka's clothes on Fox? I mean, seriously, this is just Amateur Hour junk.

Believe that the PTB have "the goods" on Trump, and frankly, rightwing/conservative Elites have been stating publically that Trump WILL make a turn-around and start acting more Presidential. There was someone on NPR last weekend mouthing something like this. Forget who but some rightwing Big Wig. I just thought: uh oh, the jig's up, and someone's going to "get" to Trump and tame him.

Team Trump has now become Team Pence, effectively, and that's the kind of Admin we're going to have, imo. I could be wrong, but I suspect that I'm not. All of my D-voter friends better get happy about having President Pence. I kept warning them that getting rid of Trump was NOT a good solution. But like their Tea Bagger cousins, they drank the Kool Aid and got on the bandwagon.

Sigh. Ugh.

Posted by: RUKidding | Feb 14 2017 20:31 utc | 28

Not that many here need reminding, but "Trumpland" is certainly "Obama's Legacy,"


"Behind the old gang lies a regime of mendacity, a tide of greed, a blight of inequality, a plague of wars, a reign of hypocrisy. Before the new gang, a vision of Pandora, opening wider her nasty box of troubles. More evils released to join the ones already loosed. The streets are turned into a bedlam of discord, bathos, alarm, and confusion because the forgetful harpy and serial killer Hillary Clinton lost and the crazed buffoon and gaseous “orange” zeppelin won—billionaire Trump, head of an empire of 111 industrial, commercial, and financial corporations. “Friend of the people.”"

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 14 2017 20:32 utc | 29

No need to start a pathetic hate trump fest here now. Doing so will only give the neocobs, dems more fire, the same fire that burnt Flynn out.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 20:39 utc | 30

Doesn't really need to be anything huge or misterious. How about something like "Donnie, you got such nice kids... It would be a pity if something happened to them."

Just my uneducated 2 cents, out of my arse...

Posted by: Zzz | Feb 14 2017 20:43 utc | 31

I just have a sad. Really. Not snark. It's too bad.

Posted by: RUKidding | Feb 14 2017 20:45 utc | 32

Anything I might add to the conversation would be redundant, so my thoughts mirror post # 7, and the last paragraph provided by karlof1 @ 29..

Reality can be very sobering....And yet enlightening.

Thanks b!

Posted by: ben | Feb 14 2017 20:54 utc | 33

Looks to me like the neocon establishment with the government has won. US foreign policy will be dictated by the CIA and like minded generals in the Pentagon and diplomats in State. Anti-Trump forces for the sake of political gain have let loose the Kraken.

Posted by: Erelis | Feb 14 2017 20:59 utc | 34

Hate to say this, but TRUMP may be a worse President than Hillary would have been. Both following a neo con foreign policy. But Hillary probably would not have slashed social safety as much as Trump and his big business team wants to do.

Posted by: Vollin | Feb 14 2017 21:00 utc | 35

Let's compare Trump to Yanukovich, who also was elected by a majority of the people and who failed to show the resolve needed to stop the ‘color revolution’ started against him. But if Trump is the new Yanukovich, will the US become the next Ukraine?

Like I said in an earlier post ... there is always hope. So, if the US becomes the next Ukraine, oh wise posters to this blog, who plays the role of Poroshenko? Where will be the Donbass, and what of Crimea? Will the military be loyal to ... whom? And the CIA, FBI, NSA ... ?

And then there is Iran, China, Russia ... even the Philippines, Vietnam, etc., Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and what about Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Syria, etc, etc, etc?

Oh, this is going to be such fun ... !

Posted by: rg the lg | Feb 14 2017 21:05 utc | 36

I expected Trump to be less aggressive than Killary in Foreign policy, and it still might happen. However recent events show that there might not be much difference between them after all.

Trump is heavily escalating against Iran and China, calling for safe-zones in Syria, even more support of Saudis aggression in Yemen, and now even de-escalation vs Russia is going out of the window.

Nonetheless, is too early to make decisive judgement about Trump and his change (or lack of) of US aggression path, lets give him few years in the office, at least.

Posted by: Harry | Feb 14 2017 21:08 utc | 37

I tried to withheld my judgment on Trump all thru the campaign and untill now, I kinda hoped for him to be that wild card that would shake up the status quo, improve the relations with Russia, reverse the imperial overreach, but now after Flynn's resignation and today's remarks by Sean Spicer, I think Trump is over. He is like a helpless baby splashing around among the alligators, or like a highschool bully who runs acts tough but runs to his mummy at every hint of resistance.

It's barely a month into presidency and he already reversed on all his promises.

1. He tried to take on the CIA and gave in in less than a week. He even admitted Russia somehow hacked the elections, which is an obvious nonsense.

2. He tried to issue the 'Muslim ban' only to see his decision reversed completely by the judges and he gave in and surrendered.

3. He tried to go tough on China only to do a complete turnaround and go back to 'one China policy'

4. He tried to improve relations with Russia and today he surrendered completely to the deep state.

5. He talked against the Wall street and his administration is probably the most Goldman Sacks admin in history.

So, I think it's pretty clear that the puppet-in-chief has no decision making power but I am still happy because this inept and cowardly and completely incompetent administration will precipitate the demise of the US empire, which by now seems irreversible. Too bad there might be a big war as a consequence.

Posted by: tai | Feb 14 2017 21:09 utc | 38

“The White House is UNDER ATTACK from elements INSIDE the Intelligence Community” | Dennis Kucinich on Michael Flynn resignation, wiretapping, leaks


There's a MUCH bigger issue going on here than Trump and Flynn.

Kucinich: "Be VERY careful. That's my warning this morning. A game is being played with the security of our country. I don't often share the interviews I do, but ask that you watch and share this one because it's important.
Watch the interview, not the headline. Resignation was right but a deeper issue is now exposed."

Posted by: erichwwk | Feb 14 2017 21:10 utc | 39

A country that is financially broke can't provide a viable safety net. Clinton might have increased taxes, and in doing so prolonged the agony of America's welfare state by few years, but transferring wealth from producers to moochers never ends well. The "safety net" will be curtailed regardless of who inhabits the Oval Office.

Posted by: telescope | Feb 14 2017 21:14 utc | 40

Whoooa. Please look a bit deeper at the contingent HRC spoke {is still speaking?] for. Try above video. This is WAAAY deeper than Trump or Hilary

Posted by: erichwwk | Feb 14 2017 21:15 utc | 41

So Trump has been reduced to impotence (or maybe not yet). As was Obama.

Actually, you could argue that Trump has been careless, as you would expect of someone like him. Washington is a very intense environment; where you have to say precisely what you mean.

I still have no idea what Trump plans in foreign policy. I imagine that it will be completely contradictory.

Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 14 2017 21:35 utc | 42

Too much, too soon.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 14 2017 21:41 utc | 43

telescope @ 13 says:

Welcome to the era of paralysis, precursor to the era of unraveling

political collapse comes with sprouting visions of unicorns. what a sick fucking joke. 'white hats' inside the mil/sec/gov cloaca.

yeah, sure.


Enter Banquo and Fleance with a torch.

2nd murderer: A light, a light!

3rd murderer: ‘Tis he.

1st murderer: Stand to’t.

Banquo: It will be rain tonight.

1st murderer: Let it come down.

(Macbeth, act 3, scene 3)

Posted by: john | Feb 14 2017 21:42 utc | 44

Y'see, this is why Trump needs sweeping dictatorial powers.

There are just too many traitors undermining him.

Posted by: Horatio Parker | Feb 14 2017 21:48 utc | 45

Nobody cares these days. In UK, Fascism is coming. The Brexiters shut up anyone who resists. How long before they're beating resistants over the head with batons?

Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 14 2017 21:54 utc | 46

neo con war mongering will not stop until US military is defeated in one if its afventures or only wins at great cost in US blood and treasure. A very cynical take to be sure, but highly accurate methinks.

Posted by: Vollin | Feb 14 2017 21:59 utc | 47

erichwwk @39

So Flynn is small fry. A phone call between a US government official was intercepted by US intelligence (actually could be almost anybody if the line was open) and leaked to the press and White House officials so Flynn could be deposed and US Foreign Policy undermined. And this happens without question or without probable end. The US is no longer a functional democracy (as if that was in doubt).

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 14 2017 22:01 utc | 48

On the Guardian this morning there was a discussion about wine. Why not drink British wine, if foreign has become so expensive (decline in the pound)? The reply was: British production, thanks to climate warming, 5 million bottles. Foreign imports 1716 million. But Britain should be independent again. Why do we need wine?

Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 14 2017 22:18 utc | 49


Erich i like Dennis. One of the very few remaining non soldouts on the federal political scene. Not to mention one of the even fewer genuine American left survivors therein..

Only an idiot can now still believe that the United States Govt is run by anyone but the so-called intelligence community, with an unlimited effective authority and executive power.

Anyone of us small fries rejoicing in D Trumps defeat will soon experience major post-phyrric regret. All the alternatives have been even worse, and will now resume normal their normal operation.

With Hillary or not we are back on track for W W 3

Posted by: Quadriad | Feb 14 2017 23:06 utc | 50

Meanwhile in actual foreign policy actions, the G-20 is preparing to meet in Bonn where Lavrov will engage Tillerson for the first time in the latter's official capcity; and if not on the sidelines there, then perhaps at the Munich Security Conference which immediately follows the G-20,

Here's an interesting analysis by an esteemed Russian that's hard to disagree with,

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 14 2017 23:07 utc | 51

Posted by: woogs | Feb 14, 2017 3:11:35 PM | 26

You need to come more often that way you'll be up to speed on little nikki.

Posted by: jo6pac | Feb 14 2017 23:09 utc | 52

Quadriad @50--

"... back on track ..." is essentially what the esteemed Russian said in my link as no new policy's been implemented so the old one's continued--a policy built on Big Lies and intent on Full Spectrum Dominance.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 14 2017 23:14 utc | 53


Clinton had a +3% increase in the withholding tax as her first act, to cover for the outright looting of SS and MC funds, both for military wars of adventure, for increasing interest expenses of the QEn, and likely from ObamaCare.

Trump solved that by eliminating ObamaCare and grifting the savings to MIC expansion and Fed interest payments on the 'debt' (sic). He also unbound Wall Street from fiduciary duty, which is huge. Wall Street manages $100s of billions in union pension funds, public employee pension funds and retiree private 401ks. The iron claw is freed from the velvet glove.

The only 'moochers' transferring wealth from 'producers' are the vampire squid on Wall Street and Trump's Cabinet, and now all checks and balances against front-ending, insider trading, flashcrashing and churning and burning are eliminated!!

Credit Suisse, Bank of America, Deutsche Bank, et al, won't have to pay anymore $billion files for swindling pensiiners, the Last Great Store of Unencumbered Wealth on Earth.

By next week Flynn will have been forgotten in the rush to make textbook sales to all the flower revolution charter schools springing up like weeds.

Four years from now, your kids will be speaking in tongues.

Mighty Aggregious Gaming, Alright


Posted by: The Real Donald | Feb 14 2017 23:15 utc | 54

54 TRD

You neoliberals are a strange lot.

Worried about the marginal income tax rate and the scrapped Corporate welfare Obamacare while you soon may have neither incomes to deduct tax from, nor any ability to get to a hospital.

I would be more concerned about the iodine, samizdat geiger counters and backyard or basement fallout shelters.

Posted by: Quadriad | Feb 14 2017 23:26 utc | 55

Hippie homeschooling four years from now?

Superb news!

That means your kids are still alive in 4 years time.

Posted by: Quadriad | Feb 14 2017 23:29 utc | 56

Flynn’s departure, resignation or whatever

Greenwald’s The Intercept’s take

The Leakers who exposed Gen. Flynn’s Lie Committed Serious – and Wholly Justified – Felonies

PRESIDENT TRUMP’S NATIONAL security adviser, Gen. Michael Flynn, was forced to resign on Monday night as a result of getting caught lying about whether he discussed sanctions in a December telephone call with a Russian diplomat. The only reason the public learned about Flynn’s lie is because someone inside the U.S. government violated the criminal law by leaking the contents of Flynn’s intercepted communications.
In the spectrum of crimes involving the leaking of classified information, publicly revealing the contents of SIGINT — signals intelligence — is one of the most serious felonies. Journalists (and all other nongovernmental citizens) can be prosecuted under federal law for disclosing classified information only under the narrowest circumstances; reflecting how serious SIGINT is considered to be, one of those circumstances includes leaking the contents of intercepted communications, as defined this way by 18 § 798 of the U.S. Code:

Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates … or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes … any classified information … obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

That Flynn lied about what he said to Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak was first revealed by Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, who has built his career on repeating what his CIA sources tell him. In his January 12 column, Ignatius wrote: “According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking.” [.]

~ ~ ~ ~
Yes, Greenwald would find the leak admirable as he states:.
This episode underscores a critical point: The mere fact that an act is illegal does not mean it is unjust or even deserving of punishment. Oftentimes, the most just acts are precisely the ones that the law prohibits.

OTOH, I have to agree with Catherine Austin Fitts, former Assistant Sec. of Housing, Bush admin., …there is a campaign to separate Trump from his lieutenants weaken his ability to rope the alligators.

Scroll down for Video Interview
www. & Markets

Trump Taking on Corruption & Lawlessness

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

My personal view, I am now fully turned off, tuned out after the Crimea statement by Haley, US UN Ambassador, now repeated in RT, as coming from Trump, that Russia needs to return Crimea and his [Trump’s] full support of the Is##l firsters.

Americans need a history lesson dating from 1654 and fully deserving of what lies ahead.

Posted by: likklemore | Feb 14 2017 23:58 utc | 57

@26 woogs.. yes, thanks.. i read it again and see how it is just being solidified and furthered..

Posted by: james | Feb 15 2017 0:21 utc | 58

telescope @ 40 said: " but transferring wealth from producers to moochers never ends well."

Yep, that's why we need to end the billions we give away every year to the Mega-Corporations, and the wealthy.

Only one thing worse than giving money from the tax base. And that is giving it away to those people that don't need it..

Posted by: ben | Feb 15 2017 0:28 utc | 59

b - for once I mostly disagree with your reading.

Who says that Trump has a 'new' foreign policy agenda, who says he has any at all?
Flynn was just a fig leaf imo, to pretend that something would change, foreign policy-wise. Now he's gone, and the usual (neocon) routine continues. Renewed talk of no-fly-zones doesn't sound anything like detente to me, not to mention eastern Europe and Ukraine. Trump is just a new flag-bearer for old aggressive policies, and he'll probably show far less restrain than Obama.

Erdogan is of course still hoping that he can take over parts of Syria and Iraq, thanks to the new man in the White House. Moscow never trusted him, and a few days ago sent him a strong warning by 'accidentally' bombing some of his troops. He should have learned by now to better play by the big boys' rules, but no...

Posted by: smuks | Feb 15 2017 0:41 utc | 60

Theres clearly a hell of load of money to be made via the military industrial complex. Its burglar alarms. Whats the best way to increase your sales in an area? You spread a rumour that theres a spate of burglaries, sales rise as do profits, job done.
There are so many organisations connected to arms industry in the US it needs a real enemy.


Posted by: Hermius | Feb 15 2017 0:47 utc | 61

Trump expects Russia to ‘return Crimea' – White House

What detente?

Posted by: ben | Feb 15 2017 0:51 utc | 62

So suppose Donald Trump has figured out its not just Flynn's phone conversations they are listening to all the time. Sort of like the CIA spying on the computers the Senate staffers were using in the investigation of the CIA. Wonder just when it might have dawned on him? Like a light bulb flash. Time to go back to pads and pencils. Not only listening to his calls but leaking like a sieve. War. The drum beat is picking up, the bluff only being where. Is it where all the munitions are being stockpiled? Must admit that it quite a buildup.

Posted by: Dominic | Feb 15 2017 0:57 utc | 63

Posted by: Mike | Feb 15 2017 1:03 utc | 64

likklemore @57--

1654, English Civil War and all its intrigues, or ?

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 15 2017 1:21 utc | 65

Supposedly, it was the Russian diplomats whose communications were targeted, not Flynn's, but that's a violation of International Law, which Greenwald fails to mention, although his entire article deserves reading.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 15 2017 1:29 utc | 66


Posted by: Jocelyn Braddell | Feb 15 2017 1:48 utc | 67

All the tv watching, Trump-supporting rednecks are unaware of FP details.

BUT they are very happy about the Trump raids on illegals. (Nevermind that Obama was in fact a real heavy hitter for the deportation of "illegals".)

The MSM is telling the rednecks that Trump is doing what he said he would do - deport illegals.

Now we have another Dunce for a President. A stuffed Shirt. An asshole. Like Obama and Clinton, both Bushes, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson... The stand out was that guy the CIA killed for running his mouth and for firing Allan Dulles.

There's an airport named after that asshole. Have some respect.

Posted by: fast freddy | Feb 15 2017 1:55 utc | 68

Well I watched Sean Shit4brains feeding the chooks this morning and one thing he did say was that the request for Flynn's resignation came about because the alleged deceit which wasn't (maybe Pence was on the outer but I doubt that Trump or Tillerson were in the dark about the true conversation) was the latest of several Flynn screw ups. That seems like it too could be actually true and my best estimate would be that Flynn is copping the blame for the muslim ban fiasco. That ban should have been that favourite of all corporate puppet pols - a stunt which enjoys popular support and doesn't cost billions to implement
Flynn would likely have been a party to the drafting of that EO being as he's National Security Advisor and from the WH reaction to the courts - the Trumpeters appeared to be wrong-footed on the unconstitutionality of it, I reckon that is what he is really being given the flick about.
The asshole loves that sort of scare the troops shit as anyone who has subjected themselves to the apprentice must surely know.
As far as the Logan Act goes maybe it was a technical breach maybe not but I guarantee that is a can o' worms no one wants to open. Rumsfield cutting the arms for hostages deal when Reagan was just a candidate would have to be at the top of the list. Prosecuting Flynn or impeaching Trump for touching base with opposite numbers overseas just before inauguration would effectively make it impossible for any of the deceitful dirtbags who go for these gigs 'to hit the ground running' when there is a change of management.

Trump does have a big problem though I doubt this will impact on his determination to cut a deal with Russia - too many of his sponsors are depending on it, Flynn screwed up when he imagined that no one in the NSA would leak the transcript (off-loading blame for the leak onto the Oblamblam team is a diversion; I doubt anyone believes that is what actually happened).
Was it a cold war warrior or was it a puppet of those corporations who need Cold War Redux to keep their bottom line looking pretty - that is the biggie cos if it were the former the problem is fixable if the latter the WH is about to get into whack a mole.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 15 2017 2:13 utc | 69

RUKidding @7

I second every word of that. Alas, it isn't necessarily comforting to know that there are others who feel exactly the way that I do at the current juncture, but still, thanks for the post.

Posted by: HD | Feb 15 2017 2:27 utc | 70

Has anyone else cast the hairy eyeball across this little beauty?

Officials have confirmed that the U.S. military, despite vowing not to use depleted uranium weapons on the battlefield in Iraq and Syria, fired thousands of rounds of the munitions during two high-profile raids on oil trucks in Islamic State-controlled Syria in late 2015. The air assaults mark the first confirmed use of this armament since the 2003 Iraq invasion, when it was used hundreds of thousands of times, setting off outrage among local communities, which alleged that its toxic material caused cancer and birth defects.

U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) spokesman Maj. Josh Jacques told Airwars and Foreign Policy that 5,265 armor-piercing 30 mm rounds containing depleted uranium (DU) were shot from Air Force A-10 fixed-wing aircraft on Nov. 16 and Nov. 22, 2015, destroying about 350 vehicles* in the country’s eastern desert.

Apparently the pentagon has been claiming since way back when Adam was a boy that they (they being U.S. and coalition aircraft) haven't & won't be using depleted uranium munitions in Iraq or Syria during Operation Inherent Resolve because the Islamic State didn’t possess the tanks it is designed to penetrate.

It is really worth reading the entire article - yeah yeah - I know it's foreign policy dot com - even so it's not a bad piece. It points out that the Iraqi government have stressed their opposition to using depleted uranium because of long term health effects on citizens, which is why the gang only used the shells in Syria.
If ever there was an example of the genuine level of concern the gang feels for Syrians, this is it.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 15 2017 2:32 utc | 71

Donald Trump was elected as an Anti-Globalist, Anti-War and Nationalist American President. The intelligence community coup has nullified the 2016 election. From this day forward, Donald Trump will make foreign policy and military decisions based on what the CIA, DOD and military contractors want. This assures the prolongation of the Cold War 2.0 with Russia and the inherent risk of a nuclear war by mistake or on purpose. The Trump administration will continue the Bush II/Obama neo-liberal-con looting of the Middle Class and shrinking government. If not, the corporate paid congresspersons will elevate Mike Pence.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Feb 15 2017 2:45 utc | 72

Trump expects Russia to ‘return Crimea' – White House
What detente?
Posted by: ben | Feb 14, 2017 7:51:46 PM | 62

I see a lit of simular outrage about what clowns Spicer and Haley have said. Indeed, its not a lot different from listening to that man-ish wailing banshee Samuel Power. Yet, Trump still maintains warmer relations with Russia are on the horizon.

So, let me get this straight... people expect Trump to concede ground before anyone has sat down or coffee...? Yeah, haha, ok.

In reality, Barry'O's shortsighted policies (not only on Russia) are Trumps' one of his best negotiating chips in moving forward with his repeated ad nauseum potential detente with Russia. In reality, Haley and Spicer, among others, are already out the door once their usefulness in this charade is up.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Feb 15 2017 2:51 utc | 73

karlof1 | Feb 14, 2017 8:21:36 PM | 65

“1654, English Civil War and all its intrigues, or ?”

No, its the Polish-Russian War – the 13 years war - 1654-1667 and the partitioning of Poland.

View at link the map of Ukraine in 1654 and the territories annexed to Ukraine by Russian tsars 1654-1917; Lenin in 1922; Stalin in 1939-45 and Crimea being gifted in 1954 by Nikita Krushchev.

In 2014 ZH compiled this handy guide with two maps - Scroll down to 2nd map:
“ Mapping 360 Years of a Divided Ukraine”

~ ~ ~ ~
World History and Geography are not important subjects in America because America is the world. Americans play a game called baseball with their teams’ play-offs dubbed “The World Series” - voila, they are the world.

Posted by: likklemore | Feb 15 2017 2:55 utc | 74

@71 debsisdead... yeah, that tells you all one needs to know of the benevolent intentions of the exceptional empire, barring any unforeseeable tweet from the king of tweets..

Posted by: james | Feb 15 2017 3:40 utc | 75

@ james who wrote about the king of tweets

Isn't it the king of twits?

Sounds more accurate to me.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 15 2017 4:05 utc | 76

This administration is filled with missteps, misinformation, and maladroits. I fear Flynn is just the beginning of a reveal that will furher erode America's faith in government. I doubt this is clever misdirection or thoughtful leadership. It is simply a big mess. Next, we are probably going to find out the campaign of the people for the people was engineered by Trump aides/supporters in collaboration wit Russian officials. I think it is time to acknowledge something is vey wrong with this administration.

Posted by: Alestra | Feb 15 2017 4:23 utc | 77

MM @ 73: "Yet, Trump still maintains warmer relations with Russia are on the horizon."

Hope you're right. It's what's needed, not another Cold War. The Empire's hounds are baying loudly for confrontation to ensure the MIC coffers stay full.

Profits uber alles!

Posted by: ben | Feb 15 2017 4:34 utc | 78

Posted by: Pnyx | Feb 14, 2017 1:06:38 PM | 1

longs for Clinton

Posted by: brian | Feb 15 2017 5:00 utc | 79

@57 How is the leak just? All I see happening as a result with the link is Trump becoming more hawklike on Russia ending the possibility of a detente with Russia, and possible war.

Posted by: MusicofE | Feb 15 2017 5:17 utc | 80

Pasting what I wrote @ antiwar

We're all trying to read tea leaves amongst Trump's nutso cabinet picks (and their replacements) in hope that somehow, someway, he's actually going to avoid, weaken and shrink the warfare state.

Trump is a chameleon on many things, but he was absolutely hostile to Iran, Central/South Americans and China. The antiwar contingent have considered Trump to be a relief from Hillary's 'fight-russia' rhetoric, but now we have near-definitive challenges laid down against Russia, and Trump seems to be finally ensnared by his rivals in media and politics.

It could get VERY VERY UGLY. There are multiple flashpoints just waiting to be exploited, and if the evil ones are able to wrestle control of their own black operations, Obama's 5+-country death&destruction road-show could be easily surpassed.
Beyond Iran there's Venezuela and North Korea, Yemen, Syria (Raqqa and the NE area), Mexico, Kashmir... The two main targets are obviously Russia and China, although asymmetrically. Then, of-course there's the USA itself.

Russia seems to be very aware of potential mechanizations, as observed by their maneuvers today. The Saker IMHO nailed it with his instant reaction to the news - as of 2/15/17 at 00:23 at least.

Posted by: aaaa | Feb 15 2017 5:35 utc | 81

How about we name and shame some members of the Deep State. Can we come up with some names? I mean, according to the fucking geniuses on this board they control everything.

The president is a billionaire, his SOC is another billionaire who ran about the biggest company in the world. Then there's Mnuchin, another billionaire and Devos who's not broke either. But according to the whiz-bangs on here, they're fuck all, the deep deep state is fucking them up and controlling every damn single byte of information that gets out there.

No names, just spectres, maybe Jewish, who the fuck knows, no identities are ever proffered.

Well fuck you all, if you know what in truth is going on then come up with some info. Are they the Rothchilds, Bill Gates or Hugh Hefner? They control every bit of media in the world except for MoA and a couple of other blogs? They run the world but nobody knows their names?

How 'bout these fucking idiots like Trump and his pals are running things for now. Not some shadowy group, just this bunch of clowns. Can you deal with that?

If it's the MIC, then I guess it's the CEOs. We know who they are. Can we please quit with all this fucking mystery.

Posted by: peter | Feb 15 2017 5:44 utc | 82

Bravo, exactly my thoughts.
That Neo Vs Matrix trope is getting a bit irritating.
It anyone concrete is behind these machinations, how come Flynn did not name those masterminds loud and clear on his way out. He is a big shot intelligence guy, he's supposed to know all those players.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 15 2017 6:03 utc | 83

Today Trump meets with Netanyahu. His policy on Russia may have changed demanding that Russia give Crimea back to Ukraine, but his Israel policy hasn't changed. He's still all in with Zionists. He expects Russia to give back Crimea that was Russian territory before that idiot shoe slamming Nikita gave it to Ukraine, but Trump will never demand Zionists give back Palestine to the Palestinians.

Just breaking before today's meeting with King Netanyahu. The WH is backing away from a two-state solution.

Okay, so that means Netanyahu and his band of land thieves can grab up everything and legitimize Apartheid, because you know, and I know Zionists are never going to share equally one state, and Tumpster won't impose sanctions on Israeli Apartheid.

So now he's washing his hands and handing Zionists the farm.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 15 2017 6:06 utc | 84

He will soon rue the day he let this happen.
Posted by b on February 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM | Permalink

I'd be very surprised if that dream comes true. Xymph breathed a sigh of relief when it became clear that Flynn was expunged from Trump's In Crowd. As far as I can tell there's an important piece of the puzzle which is hasn't surfaced yet - a hard copy of the transcript of the conversation between Flynn and the Russian on the other end of the line. This transcript was leaked to the Fake News outlet which broke the story.

That transcript is a huge problem for the Deep State. No matter how 'good' or 'bad' the info it contains may be, it is PROOF that the NSA, and/or its partners in crime, spies on people in authority.
Trump will eat them alive if they produce the transcript and he'll laugh them out of the room if they don't.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 15 2017 6:06 utc | 85

Here's another link for the breaking news regarding Trump's I/P policy.:

Posted by: Circe | Feb 15 2017 6:23 utc | 86

Russian jets buzz destroyer USS Porter in Black Sea.:

Russian response to U.S. hubris.:

Posted by: Circe | Feb 15 2017 6:33 utc | 87

I am not a big fan of Trump either but this is not good news. And does anybody with a life-instinct really want a President Pence in office? Yikes.

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Feb 15 2017 6:41 utc | 88

“Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Our Crimea-related sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns control of the peninsula to Ukraine,” Haley said at the UN Security Council meeting on February 2.

Posted by: woogs | Feb 14, 2017 1:51:31 PM | 6

Hell will be a deeply frozen wasteland the day RF relinquishes its cub: Crimea.

Posted by: Don Bass | Feb 15 2017 6:47 utc | 89

my hunch is that flynn was no loss as far as trump is concerned. flynn got his position because he was loyal to trump. he was useful, now he isn't. flynn's a neocon, bannon doesn't like neocons. team trump used flynn when he had something to offer them, which he doesn't now.

b, i rarely disagree w/you but i think your assessment is off on this post.

Posted by: annie | Feb 15 2017 7:07 utc | 90

Posted by: peter | Feb 15, 2017 12:44:46 AM | 82
How about we name and shame some members of the Deep State. Can we come up with some names? I mean, according to the fucking geniuses on this board they control everything.

Military-industrial contractors, Congress, Congressional funds-providers, Pentagon/State/CIA etc. bureaucrats, the mass media PR types and think tanks, a.s.o.

Maybe it's more easy to name the people (besides deplorables) that fully agreed with the pro Russia view of Trump.

Posted by: From The Hague | Feb 15 2017 8:01 utc | 91

One of Trump's early mistakes was giving into establishment demands, which was saying yes there may have been some Russian hacking. In true US form you give in a little they demand a lot. It wasn't enough for them. He would have been well to continue with the theme of all Russian hacking being a fake news, Clinton campaign tactic (which it was).

In any case Flynn getting the boot will be a wake up call to him that his seat is not safe and the Clinton cockroaches are still lurking in the shadows.

Posted by: guest | Feb 15 2017 8:52 utc | 92

It's about time that Russia start demanding that the US return Alaska to its rightful owner.

I'm f*cking sick of listening to the morons in D.C. repeat their idiotic "return Crimea" mantras. WTF, it doesn't matter who we vote for or against, we always get the same old shit each time. To hell with the Federal government, who needs the bastards, they sure as hell don't give a damn about us out here in the flyover regions.

Posted by: Perimetr | Feb 15 2017 9:18 utc | 93

Posted by: guest | Feb 15, 2017 3:52:44 AM | 92

More early mistakes (or truths...) of Trump:
Choosing Pence.
Since VPDebate we knew Pence is a Putin- and Assad-hater.

Did he ever spoke or argue with Pence about Russia?

Had he a choice? (isn't every American with power corrupt, warmongering and russophobe?)

Posted by: From The Hague | Feb 15 2017 9:22 utc | 94

More early signs that Trump is a traitor:

“Russia broke the deal, and now they’re shooting, they’re bombing, something like that,” Trump told a rally in Prescott Valley, Arizona. “It should end and it should end fast.”

Tue Oct 4, 2016

(after the 'Deep State' frustated a US-Russia-agreement by bombing Syrian soldiers at Deir al-Zor Airport (Sat Sep 17, 2016))

Posted by: From The Hague | Feb 15 2017 9:28 utc | 95

The Ukraine (the borderlands) is a composite construction of 3-4 cultures. Approximately 50% in the east is Russian -- is Russia.

Why this continual harping meme by the NYT and other media about Russia and leaks?

Clearly, Clinton's corrupted Democrat organization was undermined in its election attempts by gross corruption against Sanders; failed "I've got a vagina" Clintonesque []; Wikileaks based insider emails; and an assassin's bullet in the back of a FoI avoiding home-garage database administrator's head.

WTF has Russia to do with this DC Clown-town debacle?

Apart from smiling from the sidelines and working to avoid WW3 -- nothing much it seems.

Posted by: x | Feb 15 2017 10:20 utc | 96

Late arrival to the party, as usual...sigh.

Entertaining as it is to watch the USanians bleating themselves to death over Russia, across the water (in the UK) I attempt consciousness raising among my fellow citizens.
Q1: "What is the population of Russia ??" No one ever knows or thinks abt this one.
A1: Just over double the population of the UK

Q2: "How much does Russia spend on defence ??" They're still too stunned at A1 to guess a figure.
A2: Almost twice as much as the UK does.

Q3: "What is the threat from Russia ??" This is the rhetorical question. I can't get the answer from the CIA Factbook like I can for the other two.

Quite possibly there is no answer. But the media harp on about the threat as though it's known and universally understood.

Posted by: Stubbs | Feb 15 2017 10:28 utc | 97

Posted by: Stubbs | Feb 15, 2017 5:28:50 AM | 97

It is a competitor with valuable real estate. We are ruled by robber barons.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 15 2017 10:38 utc | 98

Posted by: VietnamVet | Feb 14, 2017 9:45:05 PM | 72

Yep, that is my impression. Actually, it was the same with Obama. He did try the US-Russian reset (with Hillary Clinton). It ended with the coup in Ukraine.

Both, Obama and Trump ran on switching from Russia to China as an adversary. Strategically it makes sense, China is much more powerful than Russia. So powerful China hardly ever talks about it.

To make that policy work, the US would have to ally with Russia. Obama ended up by being confronted with a Chinese Russian alliance. Chinese production and Russian resources are complementary.

What will break is continental Europe.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 15 2017 10:53 utc | 99

Here’s a hit piece written by a former National Security Agency analyst and counterintelligence officer dated 3 days ago.(pre Flynn resignation). It offers a perspective from the point of view of the Intelligence Community.

The Spy Revolt Against Trump Begins

What is especially intriguing about this piece is that it was printed in The Observer, a publication owned by none other than Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Feb 15 2017 11:42 utc | 100

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