Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 02, 2017

Crazy Ideas About The U.S. Attack In Yemen

The Fake Outrage About Trump piece included a part on a U.S. special force attack in Yemen that had happened just hours before:

The rural home of a tribal leader's family, friendly with some Yemeni al-Qaeda members, was raided by a special operations commando. A U.S. tiltrotor military aircraft was shot down during the raid. One soldier was killed and several were wounded. The U.S. commandos responded with their usual panic. They killed anyone in sight and bombed the shit out of any nearby structure. According to Yemeni sources between 30 and 57 Yemenis were killed including eight women and eight children (graphic pics). The U.S. military claimed, as it always does, that no civilians were hurt in the raid.

One of the killed kids was the 8 year old daughter of al-Qaeda propagandist Anwar al-Awlaki.

That early description holds up well against recent reporting by NBC, the Washington Post and the New York Times. The incident happened as described.

But an open question is still why the raid happen. The military and the administration claim it was to get intelligence, laptops, hard-drives and the like. But that is not a good explanation for an elaborate raid that needed lots of resources and backup. We had noted that "Yemeni sources say that at least two men were abducted by the U.S. military." The U.S. Central Command claims that no prisoners were taken only intelligence material. But a few days ago it also claimed that no civilians were hurt which it now admits indeed happened. My gut tells me that we will hear more on this issue.

There are also some weir conspiracy theories around the raid.

Marcy Wheeler aka Emptywheel headlined: Trump Fulfills Another Campaign Promise: Kills 8-Year Old American Girl and asked "Was that the point?" 

That is a crazy and impossible theory. Trump had been in office for less than ten days. The "raid" included SEAL Team 6 forces, UAE special forces, attack helicopters, U.S. Marine MV-22 tiltrotor planes, various drones and intelligence assets, a ship off the coast that launched Harrier jets and who knows what else. An organization like the U.S. military can not possibly vet, arrange and coordinated such a collection of different units and assets without several weeks of intense preparations. It is impossible that Trump ordered this raid up within very few days and just to kill some girl. Also - the military hierarchy would have very likely rejected such an order.

One can file Marcy's piece next to the dissection about the Liberals On the Edge of a Nervous Breakdown. Note: A loudmouth ruling in the White House does not make the sky fall down.

Another crazy piece was published by Reuters today:

U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger than expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.

On wonders who these three "U.S. military officials" are who try to back-stab Trump and his advisors. The raiders surely had prior and current intelligence, they surely had enough forces on the ground and in the air. Lots of backup actually did come in when needed.

The "three military officials" are also lying about the "reinforced al-Qaeda base". The pictures show a few normal houses in a small tribal village. All reports from Yemen speak of a few local families of which men were hired by the Saudis as anti-Houthi fighters. Such may at times align with local al-Qaeda groups who are also supported by the Saudis but that does not make them al-Qaeda terrorists.

The attack in Yemen must have been planned for month under the Obama administration for reason we likely do not yet know. It was then delayed and handed over "ready to go" to the Trump administration. That was my best guess days ago and it is also what the NYT now reports:

[O]ver dinner with his newly installed secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, President Trump was presented with the first of what will be many life-or-death decisions [... ] Vice President Mike Pence and Michael T. Flynn, the national security adviser, also attended the dinner.
...
Mr. Obama did not act because the Pentagon wanted to launch the attack on a moonless night and the next one would come after his term had ended.
...
[M]onths of detailed planning that went into the operation during the Obama administration [...] the Defense Department had conducted a legal review of the operation that Mr. Trump approved and that a Pentagon lawyer had signed off on it.

The "U.S. military officials" Reuters quotes must known this. Why do they try to plant their false story and thereby blame not only Trump but also Mattis, Dunford and Flynn - (former) generals who agreed on the mission? Is there some nonsense ongoing like an amateurish "military coup" attempt against Trump that Rosa Books fantasizes about?

The military attack in Yemen was a bad idea. Killing some local Yemenis who work for the U.S. "ally" Saudi Arabia for what? To be hated by their families, clansmen and tribal allies for the next decades?

Then there is the operational failure. According to the NYT and others the SEALs were detected early on, recognized they had been detected and still proceeded. The surprise effect was gone and they ran into an ambush. The operation should have been stopped as soon as they noticed that it was not going as planned. They screwed up just as their command screwed up -  up to the strategic level of Obama and Trump.

Just think about the background fight between the local "allies" in the war on Yemen. From my comment at Mary's site:

Take the bigger view. The Saudis want a united Yemen under their full control. The UAE (while said to be allied with Saudis) supports the southern separation movement in Yemen. Dubai Port (DPWorld) wants exclusive rights to Aden and the south Yemeni oil terminals. (These to avoid the strategic problems of the street of Hormuz passages.)

After UAE forces took Aden they were attacked by Saudi supported al-Qaeda (and ISIS) groups. The U.S. military supports the UAE in this family strife because it dislikes the Saudi support for al-Qaeda.

The U.S./UAE hit against that “al-Qaeda aligned” Saudi mercenary gang was as much against the Saudis themselves as it was against al-Qaeda.

Unless there is a really big secret about it yet to unveil, the raid was planned and done for little effect and more out of (Obama typical) pettiness than out of sound strategic necessity. That Trump agree to it was a stupid mistake he by now probably regrets.

That all can and should be criticized. But that does not require unfounded conspiracy theories about some spontaneous raid Trump ordered out of malice or incompetence.

There are plenty of reasons to attack him for what he does. Inventing "bad Trump" stories will only help him along.

Posted by b on February 2, 2017 at 20:08 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Anyone complaining about Crimea should explain why Crimeans are not allowed to determine their fate, while it is OK for NATO to bomb Serbia and tear Kosovo out of it.

Posted by: Jeff | Feb 3 2017 13:56 utc | 101

Trump should take a lesson: Reset Obama's foreign military interventions plans now.

Posted by: virgile | Feb 3 2017 16:23 utc | 102

@Outraged

Note that b quotes Reuters report that there was a "larger than txpected contingent of heavily-armed militants". That, plus Deep State antipathy toward Trump lead to question of whether the mission was betrayed.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 3 2017 16:27 utc | 103

Crimea belongs to Russia...going back 200 years. Crimea does not belong to the Jew Oligarchs who own the Westen Ukraine...to the Jew Victoria Neuland...and to the Jew Jared Kushner...

Posted by: Dennis Kearney | Feb 3 2017 16:44 utc | 104

@104 How do the Banderastas get their heads around this stuff? They hate Jews and Russians.

Posted by: dh | Feb 3 2017 16:53 utc | 105

Jeff

F the Tartars in Crimea...they can always go back to Turkey. Obama-Neuland don't care about Democracy and self determination...they want a nuclear US Navy fleet in Crimea to threaten Christian Russia.


Christian Russia has a God Given Divine Edict to "steal" Crimea from the Jew Oligarchs who now lord over the pinhead Ukrianonazis...

Posted by: Dennis Kearney | Feb 3 2017 16:56 utc | 106

there seems to be a hullaballoo about some cyber security firings at the White House but people were calling them Secret Service firings. Here is Steve Clemons' twitter feed about it.

https://twitter.com/scclemons

Posted by: mischi | Feb 3 2017 17:08 utc | 107

The guys over at sofrep.com are surmising the target of the raid wal likely Qassim al-Rimi -

Qassim Al-Rimi received training in the al-Qaeda muhajideen camps of Afghanistan in the 1990’s before returning to Yemen in the early 2000’s. Al-Rimi then took his training and connections with al-Qaeda central command and traveled back to Sanaa, Yemen. Al-Rimi was arrested in Sanaa around 2005 for plotting terrorist acts against Yemeni and Saudi Arabian government forces. Where he was sent to prison and met with the then current commander of AQAP, Nasir al-Wuhayshi and they both began to develop a plan to link up Saudi and Yemeni al-Qaeda cells to encompass the Arabian Peninsula. Their big break came on 2006 when al-Rimi and Wuhayshi along with 22 other suspected AQAP terrorists escaped from their Sanaa prison and disappeared into southern Yemen. Al-Rimi and Wuhayshi immediately began recruiting and building AQAP’s base in southern Yemen. After a U.S. drone strike in 2015 that killed Wuhayshi, al-Rimi was appointed as the overall Emir of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula which was blessed off on by al-Qaeda central commander, Ayman al-Zawahiri. Qassim al-Rimi is highly considered to be the ‘bin Ladin’ of Yemen and is and should be considered the highest value target in Yemen, and local Yemeni intelligence officials are claiming he was present during the raid and that al-Rimi was the SEAL Team 6 task forces primary target and was to be taken alive.

Hoping this isn't construed as a 'baby's babble'...

https://sofrep.com/73934/seal-team-6-likely-killed-yemens-top-terror-leader-ubls-counterpart-qassim-al-rimi/

Posted by: h | Feb 3 2017 17:08 utc | 108

103

Any doubts about Trump were erased today, when he failed to apologize for ordering ST6 to shoot an 8-year old American girl through the neck until dead, bleeding out overnight because of (illegal war crime) US sanctions on Yemen, now that Yemen is found to be full of recoverable oil and gas. Then to allay any pablum that Trump was 'betrayed', he's filling up Gitmo again, or maybe filling his Asst Sec Def black ops torture rendition centers.

Trump and his Wall Street Zogs also declared (another war crime) with renewed sanctions on the $10sBs of Iranian oil money investments in the USA, monies that the Zogs have used for their private slush fund, stealing the interest and profits that Obama had tried to pay back.

Trump and the Zogs also declared economic sanctions (a third war crime) on the American People itself, striking down the 'fuduciary duty to clients' requirement of Dodd-Frank, because it's 'not good business to put client interests ahead of broker interests,' says SoT Cohn.

Americans who find Trump and the Zogs soft coup takeover of All Finance, including the Treasury, NEC and oversight OMB, rather disgusting, are advised to rotate their 401ks out of hedged high-yield junk funds, ETFs and brokerage funds, and keep their 401ks safely in index funds without any broker 'management' (sic), considering in 2016, hedge fund managers far underperformed the index funds, even before their obscenely high fees.

As of today, everything issuing from Trump Tower or WSJ or Wall Street brokers will be toxic to your assets, and anything the Trump-Zogs collaborators here on MoA say about, 'Just give the guy a chance!' will be pure psyop, Chamberlaining for the lumpen proletariat.

On to Tehran! On to Sevastopol!
The power of Zog compels it!

Posted by: chipnik | Feb 3 2017 17:11 utc | 109

Trump defenders are tying themselves in horrific knots already. The man, just like Obama, made it his business to unleash slaughter from the air as soon as he took office.

And he's threatening Iran, the Palestinians, China ... helluva start.

The man is pure evil. His soul is a pit of smoking evil. The 'election' was a 'choice' between evil and eviler and we may never know which one was which.

Posted by: paul | Feb 3 2017 17:19 utc | 110

CENTCOM releases 5 clips and a few details about the Yemen raid -

Clips from five longer videos seized in the Jan. 29 raid in Yemen are being released today showing a small sample of the sort of intelligence information that was obtained in the site exploitation mission against an al-Qa’eda in the Arabian Peninsula staging area, propaganda center, and logistics hub for AQAP’s terrorist network this past weekend.

http://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/Press-Release-View/Article/1070450/us-central-command-releases-video-retrieved-during-weekend-raid-in-yemen/

Posted by: h | Feb 3 2017 17:25 utc | 111

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 3, 2017 11:27:52 AM | 103

Deep State antipathy toward Trump lead to question of whether the mission was betrayed.

Having slept on it and reviewed events ...

Didn't realize the US was at war with Yemen or that Yemen was at war with the US ? The administration actively chose to launch a major military strike (drones/Strike aircraft/Attack helicopters/etc), essentially unlawful targeted killings, based on shit Intel, to accomplish what, precisely ? To look tough ?

Well, the Trump administration has just announced new US sanctions against Iran, claiming dissemination of WMD and being a State sponsor of terrorism. Two utterly ludicrous, ongoing falsehoods. However, it is a continuation of Empire policy since '79. A carrier group has now been dispatched back on station to the Strait of Hormuz re the Persian Gulf/Iran. The USS Cole has now been stationed off Yemen.

Disseminating absolute lies re Iran, whilst enabling KSA in Yemen and Iraq/Syria ?! Claiming to want to destroy ISIS, yet no indications of action against KSA or GCC, whatsoever, in fact the opposite. Well Iran is a demonstrated active enemy of ISIS ... what happened to the enemy of my enemy is my friend, at least re ISIS.

Trumps administration via Mattis has announced it's proceeding with THAAD in Sth Korea, against Russian & Chinese protests, sustaining the lie it is about defending against Nth Korea, which is BS. The Missile Defense deployments around the globe are all about surrounding Russia and China to seek to reduce their ability to retaliate against a first strike and attempt to force concessions through 'Might is Right'.

The Armored troops deployed to the Russian border, firing rounds towards RF, have not been recalled. As NATO and Ukraine run joint naval exercises — Sea Shield 2017, in the Black Sea, concurrent with the Ukie provocations.

The lies Haley spouted in partnership with UK in the UN, re Ukraine/Donbass/Crimea & the myth of Russian aggression was no different to Samantha Power, on a good day.

It is now reported China has heightened it's Military Readiness levels in response to all the open bluster and continuous talk by principals, of War over the South China Sea, etc.

ALL the above serves Deep State/MIC interests ... and is not in Americas 'interests', nor its citizens and won't MAGA. The Strategic 'tension' is being wound up, around the globe, to what purpose, whilst simultaneously undermining international alliances ... this is a very dangerous, highly unpredictable, dual track.

Negotiating re real estate deals does not equate to dealing with Sovereign States, when ya walk away from the table 'cause you didn't get what you wanted, they are still there ... realpolitik & real diplomacy is in short supply ...

Trump appears to enjoy being seen as irrational/unpredictable/winner take all ... in national leaders, that is very risky, dangerous even, from other nations perspectives re predictability/rationality and acceptable outcomes ... other States 'interests' must be acknowledged and addressed ... this Trump and his advisers seem unable or unwilling to comprehend. There appears to be no or trivial apparent, rational 'pushback' in Council re strategic consequences.

Looking like the 'Bulletin of Atomic Scientists' should have moved the Doomsday Clock a full minute, not just 30 seconds ... upon reflection, positive signs are few and far between.

And all the above is only over just the last few days ... not good, not good at all :(

IF, a big if, it is all just posturing for position, it's a dangerous path to follow, indeed.

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 3 2017 17:37 utc | 112

@36 Tom in Az The tin-pot bully is the guy the US and the Saudis installed, with the promise of elections in 2 years. 2 years came and went and no elections, and the Houthis ran his ass back to Ridyah...
That's the story that gets so little press coverage in the U.S., that the Saudis were trying to run a client state in Yemen and there was a popular uprising against it during the Arab Spring; the House of Saud doesn't want to be replaced by a parliamentary democracy, so they opposed all Arab Spring pro-democracy movements especially the ones in their backyard.

@111 Centcom has over 10,000 American troops (contractors incl.) at Al Udeid air base and Camp As Sayliyah in Qatar. The CIA also has a secret drone base in Saudi Arabia.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21350437

John Brennan, a former CIA station chief in Saudi Arabia, played a key role in negotiations with the government in Riyadh over building the drone base.

The Houthis are more likely to oppose Al Qaeda than their Saudi financiers are, however.

As far as really dumb foreign policy moves under Trump, the ban on Iranian visas has to be exhibit#1, since it undermines the whole effort against ISIS. Here's a good article on that from the Irish Times:
. . .middle-east/us-relations-with-arab-world-strained-by-trump-s-edict

The exclusion from the ban of Saudis and Qataris, the chief financiers and armourers of jihadi groups adhering to Saudi Arabia’s puritan ideology and fighting in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt and Libya, could encourage Riyadh and Doha to continue their support for Islamic State and al-Qaeda, prolonging the campaign to eradicate jihadis.
. . .Trump’s declaration could put at risk the 5,000 US troops involved in the offensive to drive Islamic State from Iraq’s northern city of Mosul, where US soldiers could be in danger of attack from Iraqi militiamen or soldiers.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 3 2017 17:54 utc | 113

@113 nf.. ditto your comments..

Posted by: james | Feb 3 2017 18:00 utc | 114

The Strategic 'tension' is being wound up, around the globe, to what purpose, whilst simultaneously undermining international alliances ...

Someone is playing a global game of chicken. It is after all, the year of the fire chicken!

Will China chicken out, or will the chickens come home to roost?

American Girl

Funny how the "anti Trump" media is not talking about that! (Poor heart broken Ted .. that "Hanoi Jane" sure did a number on you, got you to sell(out) CNN, and then unceremoniously dumped you!)

"Captain America". Boo hoo.

Posted by: nobody | Feb 3 2017 18:05 utc | 115

Outraged@79, 112; Virgile@102:

I agree with all your points. It is becoming harder to see the Trump Administration's proclaimed policies as delineated by his inaugural address in these serious matters of international activity. Bombs kill, and they don't just kill terrorists. At the same time, this is what the opposition does - they did it in Ukraine, we must remember, when that march upon the trade union building in Odessa was disrupted by people claiming to be protesters who were in fact aligned with the marchers - they even shot some of their own to create that false reality. Chaos and murder was the result there, as has been meticulously documented.

Trump has inherited a neoliberal nightmare of lesser participants and pretend neo-trumpists. He needs their expertise in day to day management. He is vulnerable to their persuasions, just as President Kennedy was vulnerable to the persuasions leading to the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

There is currently a review ongoing of the Yemen disaster. It will be very important that Trump acknowledge it as such, and learn from it. He will have to make prominent his public apology for this, or we will know that the forces responsible for it now own him.

Foreign policy cannot continue on the previous administration's track. That way will dishearten everyone who has had hopes for this administration to succeed. And it will fail.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 3 2017 18:22 utc | 116

French MSM say that the man who attacked a security guard at the Louvre in Paris today came through Dubai. Can't Trump make a no fly zone over Dubai? Ban visitors from this place?

Posted by: Mina | Feb 3 2017 18:38 utc | 117

I can't trust Trump's words on Israel. It's the same window dressing for the masses that previous presidents used on the matter. I expect Trump to delay and stall on the issue, waiting for some conflagration to occur so that he can just throw his support to Israel once again. They probably talked about it already.

RE: Iran sanctions. Seems evident to me that Trump wants to isolate Iran from the RU/CN nexus.

Posted by: aaaa | Feb 3 2017 19:17 utc | 118

@110 yeah - rather than the 'lesser evil' we had a 'greater evil' delima this time around.

I'll just add that he seems unlikely to do much about the cartel of the entire medical bureaucratic complex and just began the roll-back of regulations (dodd/frank) on banking entities.

Posted by: aaaa | Feb 3 2017 19:26 utc | 119

The Penatgon put up a video today that it said was part of the "valuable intelligence" it gained from the murdering raid in Yemen. The video showed the building of some amateur bombs.

After an hour it took the video down. Some had noticed that it was 10 years old and had previously been published all over the net.

So much for "valuable intelligence" ....

Posted by: b | Feb 3 2017 19:27 utc | 120

@ Posted by: juliania | Feb 3, 2017 1:22:04 PM | 116

Trump has inherited a neoliberal nightmare of lesser participants and pretend neo-trumpists. He needs their expertise in day to day management. He is vulnerable to their persuasions, just as President Kennedy was vulnerable to the persuasions leading to the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

The Yemen 'review' will be as all others have been, a whitewash, and their will be no acknowledgement, lesson learnt, nor apology ... that has been the case for 16 years now, at least, without exception. Have little doubt. A US president does Not apologize, and that is certainly not in Trumps personal character either ...

Trump is many things, yet he is not stupid & he is clearly wilful & fully aware of his ultimate authority. Am having great difficulty given the events/actions of the myriad of events of the last few days, in believing he as an individual is being manipulated/misled by his immediate principals ... he has a long history of seeking & taking advice he respects, yet always reserving to himself the final decision.

The thing that is lacking from all his principals, especially UN Rep Halley, is no career diplomats/foreign policy/International relations experts ... Malloch as EU Ambassador to have publicly talked about taking the EU 'down' same as the USSR, now has the EU Council openly discussing to refuse his credentials as EU Ambassador, declaring him malevolent and possibly even declare him 'Persona Non Grata' ...

They've completely mishandled the poison pill Obama left re US accepting AUS refugees ... so badly, so incompetently, in fact, the AUS press has been openly talking about needing to review the US/AU alliance (ANZUS?) of ~74 years standing given their economic dependence on China. AUS is a Five-Eyes member and the multiple strategic facilities in AUS are crucial to US global strategic operations for NSA, SSBMs comms, ICBM launch monitoring/detection, SIGINT/GEOINT, SAC, etc.

It's been reported Mattis, a rabid Iranophobe, had to talk Flynn down and water down his intended response to the Iran missile launch. Given Flynn knows exactly who is behind ISIS & Al-Qaeda ... Al-Saud/Qatar/Turkey ... KSA/Al-Qaeda in Yemen ... as former Director DIA ... he wrote it up ... hell, he was sacked by Obama/Clapper for passing the intelligence along to allies. That raises crucial questions as to Flynn's competence & considered judgement as National Security Adviser.

Tillerson as Sec o' State seems to have an impossible task ahead if he's going to be the 'Grown-Up' in the room ...

@ b | Feb 3, 2017 2:27:13 PM | 120

So much for "valuable intelligence" ...

New Administration, yet exactly the same, as predicted re the 'Raid' justification ... BS as for the last 16 years, at least, re the Global War on Terra.

Situ ... No Change. :(

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 3 2017 19:37 utc | 121

what about Kellyanne Conway and her valuable intel on the Bowling Green massacre? any idea where it came from?

Posted by: Mina | Feb 3 2017 19:49 utc | 122

@120 for being such a vindictive, scheming and bullying administration thus far, team Trump has been rather clumsy if not downright incompetent. Maybe that will change, but his admin hasn't encountered real crises yet, nor have the TrumpLeaks begun

Posted by: aaaa | Feb 3 2017 19:55 utc | 123

@120 b.. hilarious.. biz as usual i suppose.. manufactured bs continues unabated..

Posted by: james | Feb 3 2017 19:59 utc | 124

Perimeter at 50. Yes… same old, same old.

Excerpt of Nikki Haley’s confirmation speech for UN rep. (link works for me)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/us/politics/nikki-haley-un-ambassador-russia-war-crime.html?_r=0

whole here:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/01/18/Watch-live-Nikki-Haleys-confirmation-hearing-for-UN/9911484737129/

Shows that nobody has any clue what they are talking about, they try to make points, are lost, and the words are empty rhetoric, a kind of crazed conventional theatre. Nikki is superbly ignorant, no clue about anything (besides being a liar as is required), is following some ‘scripts’ - a puppet swerving beteen z and y. Sweet personal story! From the Punjab we found OPPortunity!

The main thrust is pro, PRO 100% Israel…

Should be obvious by now… many Pols like her are just actors shunted a ‘script’, a line of talk, position to uphold, no matter how confusedly, in return for very high pay (not as good as for Hollywood actors), and some ‘kudos’, and ‘protection’, a ‘position.’

N. Haley is so obviously, sad to watch, a disadvantaged desperate bad-actress woman spouting lines and acting a part for ‘advancement’, going for success, position, etc. that she doesn’t even understand. I suppose she and her family consider that a normal way to get ahead. ... Life.

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 3 2017 20:03 utc | 125

@120

Scores of civilians dead from that Yemen raid and this administration put up a fake video a day after defense officials fake intelligence against Iran accusing it of attacking a Saudi ship and rehearsing to attack the USS Cole.

So my question is (compound): what happens when Trump and the media are on the same page as they are on Iran, and the intelligence goes unchallenged, and what happens when no one notices the intelligence is fake and everyone is misled into war again, and what happens when there's no anonymous source at the Pentagon to expose the truth that civilians were actually killed as in Yemen? The dangerous deception...called the Trump Presidency happens, as William Engdahl foreshadowed it.

And then Trump slams Manning on twitter for criticizing Obama and calls her a TRAITOR.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 4 2017 0:55 utc | 126

As posted before,

Exxon has oil interest in Russia,
Tillerson wanna 'make up' with Putin.

Exxon has oil interest in SCS disputed zone,
Tillerson wanna declare it 'off limit' to China.

Exxon oil biz was nationalised by Venezuela,
Tillerson wants a regime change to replace 'that dysfunctional regime' [sic]

What does
Ian Fleming's fundamental law of probability says...?
'Once is accidence......................'

Posted by: denk | Feb 4 2017 2:07 utc | 127

hmmm, any new info?

Anything about the supposedly, allegedly, maybe abducted blokes?

My best guess would be that the military set Trump up somewhat, advised him to order an ill-advised raid, to show him how little he can do without their backing. He has only the info they give him, but he gets the blame.

@nobody 115
Course there's tension. There's hardly any prospect for growth, hence for profits. So we see increasing competition for the last bits of the global cake...either we get rid of that 'growth' ideology and all that surrounds it, or there'll be a big bang.

Posted by: smuks | Feb 4 2017 3:46 utc | 128

Don’t apologize for Trump by blaming an Obama Neolib legacy; as Obama’s supporters had no right to apologize for Obama by blaming a Bush Neocon legacy. If another war happens, it’s on people who continue to repeat this vicious cycle and put on a pedestal whatever figurehead either party chooses believing this is THE ONE to save us from the other’s crimes and inadequacy. The only way to get out of this web of corruption and deceit is to personally assume responsibility for ending it by doing what the rulers do, not discriminate, in our case, in condemning either party equally as they manipulate them equally. We must act on this momentum and own the message for ourselves. We must quit looking for messiahs to rescue us and recognize that the enemy of corruption is the cabal that manipulates both sides equally without discrimination. We must go after them! We must drive a stake through the heart of the so-called deep state that is sucking away at human and financial treasure.

Above all don’t demean dissent; don’t allow the rulers of our fate to manipulate the narrative; don’t discourage protest; don’t allow them either on the right or the left and especially the wealthy who choose the figureheads to hi-jack whatever movement arises from dissent and protest. You don’t want Soros to underwrite the revolution with his narrative, then damn it – fight for the damn message! Don’t squander your conviction and the fight in you saving Trump’s ass! He’s not in it to save yours! It’s not about Trump or Obama; they represent the same corrupt system. They’re both egotistical spineless pretenders who betray with every word they utter. Spread the people’s narrative every chance you get everywhere you can while you slam their chosen figurehead. We don’t want more wars for their religion: oil, white and dollar supremacy and pipelines; we don’t want to occupy others, we want social justice without discrimination; we don’t want Zionists suborning politicians; we want Wall Street on a leash and the Federal Reserve under a microscope. The only reserve worth protecting is our water and green spaces. We don’t want to rule the rest of the world with military and financial tyranny – we want a multi-polar world. We want balance. WE DON’T WANT EMPIRES. It is our obligation to oppose legislation that reeks of injustice; that exploits the defenseless; there’s no subterfuge in protesting that. Don’t pre-empt the revolution that could be with conspiracies that aren’t– fight whatever real conspiracy lurks with the message unfettered by the two-party system and a misguided loyalty to its current figurehead. Don’t crush what this Presidency, (that is no better than the previous two and proving worse), to its detriment is unwittingly stoking and awakening being our capacity to engender the real change we desperately seek. This Presidency is different only in that it is driving us to the darkest place we need to go where our moral red line exists, our breaking point so we can rise up in righteous protest to take back our power. This is the only way out and we must do it together, united as one invincible force independent of our ideological preferences. So quit apologizing for the other side of the same coin. The system is so corrupt that it requires our undivided commitment and conviction. If you think that the 99% fighting for a better future is a pipe dream; then fight for all the lives hanging in the balance on the other side of our planet that this cabal, the rulers, that own Trump and both sides of the aisle and much more globally, deems expendable; what they consider human refuse, waste they must discard to achieve their greedy, selfish and evil end; their WORLD ORDER. Don’t let them drag us into their bogus clash of civilizations; don’t buy in to their imperial machinations. The other, Islam, is not our enemy; our enemy are those who will do anything to corrupt the people’s democracy to impose a world order that ensures and sustains their absolute rule. They are the real enemy and Trump is their latest showman and pied-piper leading us away from our best interests and our moral centre.

Now, I’m not saying that if this nascent insurrection starts to grow, something, a distraction, won’t happen to slam the door shut on this historic opportunity; causing the fuse to fizzle; the revolutionary explosion that could have been to abort; but if that should regrettably happen, never stop asking WHO and WHY, because even gravity will be turned against us to sustain the status quo and our perpetual servitude.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 4 2017 3:58 utc | 129

@129 Circe

The only people who wouldn't blame Trump when it was CLEAR that he was an agent of the globalist order, would be those paid to post here.

Believe me, when it is clear and I am ready to heap scorn, I will be right there with you, annoying the shit out of everybody with ceaseless grandstanding and call-to-arms.

Until then...treat yourself: sensual massage, smoothie getaway, gondola rides, ass crystals. Do something...but give us a break.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 4 2017 4:23 utc | 131

ot - @131 nemesiscalling... it's funny.. circe wants to be rid of trump and any real or imagined pollyanna attitude anyone might have toward him.. we want to get rid of circe for his constant hectoring/lecturing to the moa audience on trump only..

one of the things i enjoy about moa is you can have a conversation with some folks here.. that doesn't happen with folks like circe constantly nattering on the same topic ad nauseam.. obviously circe is boring in real life with too much free time on his hands.. my guess is most just skip over his posts and they remain unread..

Posted by: james | Feb 4 2017 4:50 utc | 132

@131

This was your only other contribution on this thread.

She also said they want better relations with Russia, but clearly was misinformed as to the unlawful belligerents in the conflicts she was referring to. IMHO, she looked really out of her league. Perhaps she is just a well meaning dimwit, who somewhere along the line became convinced that the enemy is Russia. What difference does a UN ambassador make in Trump's administration, anyway? Give the good-looking dame some desk job to make it look like we're not misogynists, more likely.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 2, 2017 9:17:12 PM | 51

From WH press briefing:

Charlie.

Q Ambassador Nikki Haley came out with a strong statement on Russia yesterday. Does the administration have plans to keep the sanctions against Russia in place, or do they have any intention of adding more sanctions?

MR. SPICER: So there's two things. One, I think I commented the other day on the sanctions that Treasury put out. Those are, in fact, routine -- or the clarification -- they are a routine clarification that occurs. With respect to the sanctions, I think Ambassador Haley made it very clear of our concern with Russia's occupation of Crimea. We are not -- and so I think she spoke very forcefully and clearly on that.

So in the interest of equal opportunity, shall we do away with the WH Press Office as well and give the short, chubby white guy a desk job too? Or is your discrimination reserved only for the female messenger of what you prefer not to see and hear?

Now, for your 2nd pearls of wisdom:

Believe me, when it is clear and I am ready to heap scorn, I will be right there with you

...followed by your usual condescending poopery in my regard.

When it is clear, huuuum? Allow me to help you with your myopic tunnel vision. I'll gladly take up a collection for some coke-bottle bifocals. Better yet, why don't you stop shaving, and when you finally wake up, call yourself Rip Van Winkle.

@132

my guess is most just skip over his posts and they remain unread

Really? That's odd. So why is it that quite a few read them, reply/debate them, even agree or plain love them while others like NC and Jackrabbit are annoyed as hell even rabidly so after they're thru? Either way, they're not indifferent, so this proves they must be harder resist and ignore then you pretend. Or are you really trying to muzzle me?

But hey, who cares what you think! Continue to do me a favor; please scroll.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 4 2017 6:00 utc | 133

Circe, the point is that Trump is two weeks in. You try establishing a cohesive mission statement that is enforced by your myriad staff which is probably laden with pit vipers. Is it even possible? Obama's state dept. had "counterflicting" messages all over the place. I referred to it as a bumbling policy where Russia was able to establish dominance, anyway. So even if they were gunning for Russia or Iran, what makes you so sure that those would even be surmountable conquests? For the amount of energy you put out with your soothsaying, I would just want it to be a little more well-rounded in the analytics dept. i.e. Threatening Iran is a time-tested ritual of dick-measuring. Does it have to be more than that right now? Didn't we know this was coming with his campaign rhetoric?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 4 2017 6:21 utc | 134

@130 denk

Thanks for the links. I just bookmarked them. The Clearinghouse article is one of the best pieces I've read in a long time. Give the guy a Pulitzer! It should be required reading for everyone on this site. Actually, it should get a full page in every newspaper in America. Here's a thought every single person who shares the author's conviction should make a copy and send it to Meister Trump. It's an eye-opener and the stacks would fill the entire Oval Office; thankfully, not all the mass is deaf, dumb and blind. We are not alone; keep sharing it. I will.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 4 2017 6:31 utc | 135

Circe 134

Empirical evidence....
the murkkan 'election' machine has churned out 44 war mongers since 1785.

Obviously this is more like a feature than a bug !

Would the 45th be different ?

'Doing the same shit over and over again and expecting a different result is a sign of insanity..........' ?


Posted by: denk | Feb 4 2017 7:02 utc | 136

Sean Spicer walks through the 'tick-tock' of Yemen raid planning - LoneW... https://youtu.be/qvcrDiea_Hs

Posted by: jBW | Feb 4 2017 8:40 utc | 137

most things change, the more they stay the same
new boss same as the old boss

Posted by: Muhammad Salehi | Feb 4 2017 13:34 utc | 138

Kinda silly - does anyone seriously think Trump has a clue what he's doing?

And Obama was supposed to change his diaper and powder his ass for him.

Can't have it both ways. Either Trump is clueless or he made a bad decision. I vote clueless.

Posted by: Horatio Parker | Feb 4 2017 14:10 utc | 139

Outraged@121

" A US president does Not apologize, and that is certainly not in Trumps personal character either ..."

I don't know about Trump's personal character, as he has backtracked on other less important issues, causing confusion among those who would characterize his actions one way or another. Also, it isn't true that US presidents don't apologize. Eisenhower did it, and so did Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs. I remember an excellent article (don't have a link sorry, as I can't remember who wrote it) that appeared when Bush was beginning his march of mayhem that pointed out the incident with Eisenhower which rather enhanced his prestige at the time he backtracked on an issue of international impropriety. My foggy senior brain can't even zero in on the incident, but it may have been U-2 flyover and the downing of that plane.

All of which is not to say you are incorrect in your overall assessment, though I find myself allied with Trump on his Australian phone call hang up. What sense is there in relocating asylum seekers from South America down yonder in what purports to be a hellhole whilst taking those that have been incarcerated there? It's a huge problem each place but that doesn't make sense to me. Process them with compassion in situ - people are not garbage to be carted about! It made sense to me that those from places like Syria be afforded sanctuary as close to their original homes as possible; this is not different from that. And I have no yearning for Five Eyes to stay in place. When did we decide that was a good thing?

Posted by: juliania | Feb 4 2017 16:18 utc | 140

@ Posted by: juliania | Feb 4, 2017 11:18:17 AM | 139

Ike and JFK was another age ;)

In the almost 16 years, no matter the issue, AFAIK, no. The Empire is astoundingly arrogant and apologizes to no-one, the best to be hoped for is hollow, insincere, expressions of, 'Regret'.

The Aussies shouldn't be trying to dump their refugees on anyone, the concentration camps they created are their problem, legally & morally. Incredibly naive to think they could offload them to the Trump-faction given their stated American Nativism stance, very naive indeed. However, Trump and his staff completely mishandled the whole sequence of events, IMHO.

Yes, they should have told 'em where to go, however given the wider alliance issues involved, it could have been done far more maturely/diplomatically. Ie, "There is no legal agreement/treaty, not bound by Obama, the answer is NO, the domestic political price is too high. Now, what else shall we discuss Prime Minister ?" Without all the disrespect and braggadocio in public, to an allied nations leader. Such can cause the Vassal to turn away ... creating a cascade of even more avoidable problems.

Very poor judgement with no apparent consideration of the wider consequences and contempt by both parties for the actual humans, refugees plight, involved. Nothing new there. It also now leads into every other nations Government/Leaders concerns with any confidential communication ... without private candor, Trumps admin will largely hear ... silence ... or useless faux 'yes-men' responses to avoid similar public ridicule/embarrassment.

Oh, Five-eyes and beyond is an overwhelming curse and unaccountable force re sovereignty and basic human rights, just for starters ... Five-eyes could be stripped/paired down and made accountable to their own governments and Laws, if the will actually existed. Which does not ...

Yet, US strategic defense are currently critically dependent on key facilities in AUS. Unnecessarily risking an unplanned rupture engenders grave & unwarranted strategic risks. If AUS started to openly move away, the result would likely be another soft or even hard coup attempt. The strategic facilities 'could' be re-located as part of a planned process, without creating yet more risk. Yet ego driven bluster & ill-considered public outbursts only creates more instability and more risks ... Trump is acting like an adult brat, with little understanding or concern of the wider consequences and remarkably his advisers apparently are comfortable with that.

All this brings into direct and clear focus rational judgement, or the lack thereof, in a future potential major confrontational crisis, with China, Russia, Iran, Nth Korea or ? Does not bode well moving forward :(

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 4 2017 17:43 utc | 141

Outraged:

I'll certainly agree that the last 16 years have been as you say for the downward spiral of presidential-ness. I am still hoping that when Trump said he wants to make America great again he's not speaking about that kind of exceptionalism but is aware that the last 16 years have been exceptionally failing years. There is a greatness that is not tyrranically great but a greatness of exemplary behavior - he said this country should lead by example not by force, so I'm going to hold him to that.

By the way, Aussies understand rough behavior - they respect it* I don't think that was too harsh, given the mean spiritedness of Obama in creating this smelly deal and leaving it on Trump's doorstep, plus Aussie PM in going along with it. Trump's reaction was pretty mild, really.

*Just watched a terrific cricket one-dayer between Aussies and Kiwis in Hamilton - Oh yes, and we won- just. Comment from the wonderful Jeremy Coney: 'If they're there at the end; they will win it' so we bowled them out before the end - Yay team! ;)

Happy Waitangi Day, Black Caps!

Posted by: juliania | Feb 5 2017 15:14 utc | 142

@ Posted by: juliania | Feb 5, 2017 10:14:06 AM | 142

Happy Waitangi Day! (had to look it up) :)

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 5 2017 16:23 utc | 143

Very good article re UK arms sales to Saudis & references to Saudi War Crimes/Human Rights violations in Yemen, current court case, numerous embedded links:

UK Government doesn't investigate human rights claims against Saudi Arabia before selling arms

Exclusive: Officials only come to an 'overall judgement' on whether weapons sold will be used to breach laws

Just released report on Human Rights violations in KSA by HRW:

HRW - Saudi Arabia: Intensified Repression of Writers, Activists, Rising Arrests, Prosecutions

(Beirut) – Saudi Arabia has stepped up arrests, prosecutions, and convictions of peaceful dissident writers and human rights advocates in 2017, Human Rights Watch said today. In January, a Saudi court sentenced two prominent activists to long jail terms, accusing them of being in contact with international media and human rights organizations...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 6 2017 17:49 utc | 144

Nemesis, forget about Circe.. Many have tried to have him indulge us in is magistral diatribes in a constructive way to help us poor saps understand the Grand Scheme behind this New Admin only to be left in a curiously vague and abysmally profound swamp of nothingness..

Posted by: Lozion | Feb 7 2017 4:14 utc | 145

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