And in an on-topic note, what does this mean for the so-called Turkish SDF? They were mostly al Zinki or turkomen (or both) – do they get a free pass because of the SDF thing, or are they with the Zinki freaks that joined Da Real al Sham? Now we have to separate the Tahrir head-choppers from the Turkish army before we bomb them. It’s like playing Whack-a-Mole on drugs, for God’s sake. Not that I would know… I mean, it’s just an example. But it’s just like that. Trust me.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 28 2017 20:22 utc | 3

I’m glad to hear that Damascus can look forward to an adequate supply of drinking water. One piece of good news is always welcome!

Posted by: Quentin | Jan 28 2017 20:43 utc | 5

@3 The part of Zinki that Turkey is babysitting in the north merged with Faylaq al-Sham.

Posted by: Jesrad | Jan 28 2017 20:59 utc | 7

b, ‘Tahrir Al-Sham is by far the biggest … with now many more than its previous 10,000 active fighters.’
so how many ‘fighters’ does the new, amalgamated al cia duh of syria actually have? how does that compare with daesh? i have the feeling that al cia duh is now larger than and perhaps better supported than daesh? al cia duh is supported by the eponymous cia and gcc? daesh still draws from those same two fonts? the turks are running all those who don’t fit into al cia duh or daesh? or are on sabbatical, or just moonlighting?
will tee-rump continue the us support for terror – both directly through al cia duh and indirectly through the gcc?
i know that last is t-h-e question.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 28 2017 21:23 utc | 9

Louis ‘the clown’ Proyect proffers the fake-ist of fake news. A mere change of leadership would not have satisfied the foreign head-choppers.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 28 2017 21:33 utc | 11

Louis Proyect, what artful dribble. ToivoS has it right. But let’s add some details:
Without ISIS and other jiahdi terrorists, what would Syria look like today? Deir Ezzor would have been a center of trade between Iran and Syria and Iraq. Iran and Syria had planned to link up their power grids in Deir Ezzor; Iran was also going to extend its railway system into Syria. And there was that joint Russian-Iranian-Syrian plan to pipe Iranian gas to Turkey and the Mediterranean, eventually supplying Europe. Economic growth and prosperity.
But Israel and Saudi Arabia and Qatar couldn’t handle that vision. The GCC countries have large Shia populations, mostly on top of their oil fields – they might demand democratic representation. And Israel, well, they’re run by paranoid nutcases sitting on a massive arsenal of nuclear weapons, they’re trying to banish all Arabs to South African-style Bantustans, and yet are in dread of Iran? The House of Saud, their ally, lives in perpetual fear of replacement by parliamentary democracy and so finances radical nutcase Wahhabist-Salafi terrorism all over the region.
Meanwhile Trump bans visa travel from a set of Muslim countries not implicated in ISIS terrorism! Strange. I found this funny comment about that via Google:

Maybe Iran should negotiate with the Trump organization to build a Trump Towers in Teheran and a golf resort in Shiraz. Just think of the marvelous carpets that could decorate the club house. Then, perhaps, they’ll get the same consideration as the Saudis from the current Administration. – Sic Semper Tyrannis.

At the very least, we should put Iran on the same basis as Saudi Arabia, and Israel, well, send them some psychologists and therapists?
This leaves one problem: what to do with all the crazy foreign fighters who’ve entered Syria and joined Al Qaeda and ISIS? Maybe Putin can re-open the Siberian gulags? Kinder, gentler gulags, of course. Healthy exercise, decent food, calming surroundings?

Posted by: nonsense factory | Jan 28 2017 22:35 utc | 13

ToivoS@8, Jackrabbit@11, nonsense factory@13
Sorry, but Louis Proyect@6 is basically right. I would only argue that Whether the Baathists replaced Assad or not is immaterial. The greedy psychopaths were ill-equipped psychologically to set aside profitable export schemes for a few years and deal with the drought. One could almost argue that Assad was actually opposed to the Baathist mafia on this one point, but far too meekly to make any difference. There were a whole chain of apparently bad decisions that lead up to 2012. This isn’t the sole reason for Syria’s dismal state at the time, but it’s a pretty representative symptom.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 28 2017 23:11 utc | 15

Oh? And what is the expected role of their masters: CIA, Mossad, US govt (aka: deep state)?
I don’t see them at the table, and until they are … the only question is: If Syria is off the table for the time being … who is next?
I’m betting Iran if the Trump is to be believed.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jan 28 2017 23:37 utc | 17

jfl @ 9 said: “will tee-rump continue the us support for terror – both directly through al cia duh and indirectly through the gcc?”
THAT, my friends, is the main question. Is it not?
Debs @ 12 mentions another highly relevant fact:”One thing is for sure about 99% of al-Qaeda leadership and its financiers will still enjoy freely traveling into amerika since Trump’s ‘muslim’ ban has left Saudi Arabia off his list.”
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Looks like more smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: ben | Jan 29 2017 0:05 utc | 19

ToivoS@8, Jackrabbit@11, nonsense factory@13
Sorry, but Louis Proyect@6 is basically right. I would only argue that Whether the Baathists replaced Assad or not is immaterial. Posted by: PavewayIV
Quite innumerate comment. There is an order of magnitude difference between providing adequate water supply to urban areas and to agriculture. I do not know if rainfall in Anti-Lebanon mountains (in the context of war news, Qalamoun) was severely affected by climate change, but it remains fairly high, and this rainfall feeds the flows captured in Wadi Barada. Combination of smaller rainfalls and Turks damming rivers that cross the border was a blow to traditional agriculture in Syria, but like Los Angeles and San Diego, Syrian metropolitan areas should not be threatened by thirst, in the absence of war, of course.
For that matter, Israel is en route to the elimination of Dead Sea, and to grabbing the last drop of water from West Bank, and thus it enjoys Pyrrhic victory at the moment, as it rapidly increasing number of people has to make it with slowly decreasing amount of water. People with foresight invest in the real estate in Chukotka: this winter is milder on the shores of Bering Straight than in Pennsylvania!

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 29 2017 0:36 utc | 21

Turkey has u-turned on Syria, therefore it has significantly reduced the funds it was providing to ‘moderates’ rebels intermingled with Al Nusra. On the other hand Qatar has reaffirmed that it will continue to fund Al Nusra as long as they fight Bashar al Assad.
Therefore to survive many moderates have moved to Al Nusra. The others are debating surrendering to the Syrian army or moving to Turkey. It is mater of time for the USA cracks down on Qatar. Al Nusra will collapse.
This is the political and military end of the ‘moderates’.

Posted by: virgile | Jan 29 2017 1:00 utc | 23

White House: Trump, Putin discuss working together on Syria, Islamic State – (Reuters)
President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin talked about how they could work together on fighting Islamic State and achieving peace in Syria, the White House said on Saturday.
“The positive call was a significant start to improving the relationship between the United States and Russia that is in need of repair,” the White House said in a brief statement about the hour-long call, released hours after it ended and long after the Kremlin gave its account of the conversation.
“Both President Trump and President Putin are hopeful that after today’s call the two sides can move quickly to tackle terrorism and other important issues of mutual concern,” the White House said.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 29 2017 1:42 utc | 25

Obama’s administration made the “Muslim ban” possible and the media won’t tell you
By SETH J. FRANTZMAN
“So I was outraged, and then I read the executive order. There are many full texts of the order online, such as at CNN, the NYT, the WSJ or Independent. According to most reports Trump was banning “nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States for at least the next 90 days.” This bars people from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.
I had to see for myself, so I read the executive order.
But, wait a sec. According to the reports “The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.”
Critics had attacked Trump for selecting these seven countries and not selecting other states “linked to his sprawling business empire.” Bloomberg and Forbes bought into this.
But, wait a sec. I read the order and Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen are NOT mentioned in it.
Go back and read it again. Do a “ctrl-f” to find “Iraq”. Where is “Iraq” in the order. It’s not there. ONLY Syria is there. So where are the seven nations? Where is the “Muslim ban”? It turns out this was a form of FAKE NEWS, or alternative facts. Trump didn’t select seven “Muslim-majority” countries. US President Barack Obama’s administration selected these seven Muslim-majority countries.
The Department of Homeland Security targeted these seven countries over the last years as countries of concern…
https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/obamas-administration-made-the-muslim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/

Posted by: SR6719 | Jan 29 2017 2:30 utc | 27

Well whatever the executive order says, it seems to be people from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen who have been refused entry thus far. e.g. Two Iraqis traveling independently Hameed Khalid Darweesh and Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi were detained at JFK until the ACLU & other civil liberties organisations persuaded a judge to place a stay on their deportation so as to allow the paperwork from the trumpet’s craziness to catch up with the actions the new regime has ordered.
Both these fellas are long term residents of amerika with families in amerika wondering WTF has happened to their loved one.
Whatever some stray blog claims, a Federal Judge is certainly of the opinion that the order applies to people from seven nations, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, which is why she has issued a national stay against deportation for anyone from them : “who was in flight en route to the US when the order was signed and landed with a valid visa”.
Now I will be the first to concede that the graun makes up a big mob of lies and runs plenty of bullshit opinion pieces to support their untruths, but fabricating then publishing something as easily checkable as a judge’s decision is a whole new level of deception for the graun to try on. I don’t reckon they would since a move like that has a totally untenable ratio of risk to reward.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 29 2017 3:09 utc | 29

… So there was a Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, two years before Trump? There was a kind of “Muslim ban” before the Muslim ban? But almost no one critiqued it in 2015 because it was Obama’s administration overseeing it.
So for more than a year it has been US policy to discriminate against, target and even begin to ban people from the seven countries that Trump is accused of banning immigrants and visitors from. CNN even hinted at this by noting “those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as ‘countries of concern.’” But why didn’t CNN note that the seven countries were not named and that in fact they are only on the list because of Obama’s policy?
Because mainstream media has been purposely lying … They want to blame Trump for a “Muslim ban” because they were ready with that script since last year.
And indeed Trump has enacted a harsh executive order cracking down on visitors from these countries (particularly Syrians), but his crackdown only includes those seven countries because of Obama’s policy. Trump’s decision to go beyond the policy and increase the Obama policy harms refugees, but it only increases an existing discriminatory policy, it doesn’t invent it. Reading media reports you would never know that. Most disingenuous, truly bordering on fake news, are the reports that claimed the seven countries were connected to Trump business interests, as if Obama’s DHS picked them because of Trump?

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 29 2017 3:34 utc | 31

@15, Trying to blame the civil war and destabilization of Syria on the drought is utterly ludicrous. California had a similarly severe drought, the worst on record, but hasn’t dissolved into conflict and warfare. There are many more examples: Spain, Australia, Northern India, Northern China, Southeast Brazil – and yes, Syria.
http://www.wri.org/blog/2015/06/global-tour-7-recent-droughts
As far as Assad’s response, by Jan 2011 he was acknowledging the need for reforms – quite unlike the Saudis and Bahrainis, who cracked down on their protesters with tanks and the active support of Hillary Clinton, as the Clinton wikileaks files show.

DAMASCUS—Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who inherited a regime that has held power for four decades, said he will push for more political reforms in his country, in a sign of how Egypt’s violent revolt is forcing leaders across the region to rethink their approaches. . . Mr. Assad said he would push through political reforms this year aimed at initiating municipal elections, granting more power to nongovernmental organizations and establishing a new media law. – WSJ Jan 2011

The U.S. was already secretly backing Syrian rebel groups by that time, as this story shows:
us-secretly-backed-syrian-opposition-groups-cables-released-by-wikileaks-show/2011/04/14…

Syrian authorities “would undoubtedly view any U.S. funds going to illegal political groups as tantamount to supporting regime change,” read an April 2009 cable signed by the top-ranking U.S. diplomat in Damascus at the time. “A reassessment of current U.S.-sponsored programming that supports anti-[government] factions, both inside and outside Syria, may prove productive,” the cable said.

If the covert regime change effort hadn’t been in place, do you really think the drought would have caused this?

Posted by: nonsense factory | Jan 29 2017 3:49 utc | 33

When the Saudis are on the list, maybe, we’ll have some fire to go with the smoke. Until then, BFD.

Posted by: ben | Jan 29 2017 3:53 utc | 35

TS @ 36 said: “However, soon after it was clear that Syria was in the cross hairs of western imperialism and were using the jihadi terrorists as their mercenary army. At that point any self respecting person on the progressive left had no choice but to support the Syrian people in their struggle against foreign aggression’.”
Yes! For those posters then, b made it very clear to all, that foreign aggression was the problem.

Posted by: ben | Jan 29 2017 4:58 utc | 37

Après Washington et Londres, Berlin change de politique étrangère

Chancellor Angela Merkel has swapped her Minister of Economics, Sigmar Gabriel, to the German Foreign Ministry.
Mr. Gabriel is a former trade unionist known for his criticism of the US imperial policy of George W. Bush and Barack Obama. In particular, he advocated against the colonization of Afghanistan.
He strongly criticized the apartheid implemented by the Netanyahu government vis-à-vis the Palestinians.
He was the first Western leader to go to Iran after the signing of the 5 + 1 agreement.
He called for a solution to the Ukrainian conflict respecting the population of Donbass and Russian interests in the Crimea and called for the lifting of sanctions against Russia.
Concerning the conflict in Syria, he denounced the financing of Islamic terrorism by Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 29 2017 4:59 utc | 39

SR6719 | Jan 28, 2017 10:35:55 PM | 32
As yet the new admin department of state is not fully up and running, new heads for intel and military just moving in.
This 90 day executive order based on old admin assessments/laws, is just for the interim until the new admin is up to speed. Just my guess. Seems we have to wait and watch for the first 100 days or so before we can see which way the Trump government is heading.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 29 2017 5:04 utc | 41

ToivoS | Jan 28, 2017 11:42:26 PM | 36

Paveway IV, this raises an interesting question about you. You sound like some kind of lefty, anti-imperialist type. Have you been infected with the Trotskid disease?

I do not agree with Paveway’s assessment either, but it raises no questions about Paveway.
If you have not been reading Paveway’s posts for any period of time, your post may be excusable, but if you have been reading Paveway’s previous post’s then this raises questions about yourself.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 29 2017 5:19 utc | 43

@42 peter.. thanks! i agree with you @43 as well..

Posted by: james | Jan 29 2017 5:51 utc | 45

ot – fb ali shared this 1:05 video on sst.. it’s good.. – Andrew Bacevich ─ America’s War for the Greater Middle East: A Military History.

Posted by: james | Jan 29 2017 5:54 utc | 47

So Trump’s choice of states to ban somehow becomes Obama’s fault? Sorry, I meant Obomber. Give me a chance, I’ll get up to speed.
We all know what a no-good son of a whore that Obomba was. He was the guy who restrained from voting on the latest UN motion against Israel and their settlements. It sent a clear message that appropriating more land for settlements was wrong. Can you believe that?? What a dick.
Not to worry,trump’s fixed it. There’s something like 3,000 new building permits being handed out. That’s good, Right?
Then there’s all the other fucked up executive orders, a real breath of fresh air. We knew he could do it. It may take some real brainstorming, like only the posters on this board are capable of, to see through the fog and realize just how smart he really is. He’s gonna save Syria.
And your arse is a star.

Posted by: peter | Jan 29 2017 6:16 utc | 49

50
Nope, I’m a big Putin fan.
But Trump is stupid and dangerous and it irks me to see the adulation he gets. Somehow he’s a threat to the deep state? He is the deep state ffs.

Posted by: peter | Jan 29 2017 6:45 utc | 51

@ Debsisdead about virtual dick size…..I agree. Fucking with people makes Donald’s dick grow….it is part of his gold-spoon-up-his-ass upbringing hurt.
Out of the frying pan and into the f……urnace. Hopefully the fall of America will be over quickly…..but not likely given recent US Treasury sales to foreign countries.
I agree with wanting to break the neocon president mold but believe that the alternative will be much worse for a period….the Trump period….the true height of male bullying politics by the global plutocrats…..but we need to give him another few weeks/months to fully bloom his inhumanity and pettyness.
The Fake News is that the Western way is thought of as “civilization”…..as this posting also illustrates.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 29 2017 7:58 utc | 53

Outraged | Jan 29, 2017 12:53:05 AM | 466
Trump appears to be a thinker/strategist. Similar to Putin. Time will tell.
Some time ago, I commented at another blog that Trump may well turn out the alfa male in the shark tank that is US politics.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 29 2017 8:03 utc | 55

Mexico censures Israeli support for US border wall

In a tweet on Saturday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin expressed support for US President Donald Trump’s plan, saying a similar barrier built by Tel Aviv along the Egyptian border “stopped all illegal immigration. Great success. Great idea.”
  Irked by the Twitter post, Mexico’s Foreign Ministry released a statement later in the day, saying it had expressed to Tel Aviv via the regime’s ambassador to Mexico City “its profound astonishment, rejection and disappointment over Prime Minister Netanyahu’s message.”
Meanwhile, the Central Committee of the Jewish Community in Mexico also issued a statement and “forcefully rejected” Netanyahu’s message.
“As Mexicans and Jews, we support the actions taken by President Enrique Pena Nieto in negotiations with the US,” the statement said.

the statement by mexican jews is excellent. just as it was necessary to separate the sheep from the goats in syria – the ‘moderates’ from the takfiri headchoppers – so to is it necessary to separate the jews from the zionists, not only in mexico but worldwide.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 29 2017 8:43 utc | 57

“A December 13, 2006 cable, “Influencing the SARG [Syrian government] in the End of 2006,”1 indicates that, as far back as 2006 – five years before “Arab Spring” protests in Syria – destabilizing the Syrian government was a central motivation of US policy. The author of the cable was William Roebuck, at the time chargé d’affaires at the US embassy in Damascus. The cable outlines strategies for destabilizing the Syrian government. In the cable, Roebuck wrote:
We believe Bashar’s weaknesses are in how he chooses to react to looming issues, both perceived and real, such as the conflict between economic reform steps (however limited) and entrenched, corrupt forces, the Kurdish question, and the potential threat to the regime from the increasing presence of transiting Islamist extremists. This cable summarizes our assessment of these vulnerabilities and suggests that there may be actions, statements, and signals that the USG can send that will improve the likelihood of such opportunities arising.”
http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html

Posted by: James Charles | Jan 29 2017 10:21 utc | 59

The other side of the coin is the state of the Ahrar al Sham group. They have been joined by Jaish al-Mujahidin, Tajamu Fastquim Kama Umirt, Sukour al-Sham, Kataib Thawar al-Sham, Jaish al-Islam (Idlib), Shamia Front (W. Aleppo), Mujahidi Ibn Taimia and Liwa Miqad Bin Amro.
This map shows the estimated disposition of the two new groups. Dark green is the rebranded al-Nusra, light green the Ahrar al-Sham franchise, and mid green contested.
Most of these I have not heard of, and it does sound a bit like Judean People’s Front and People’s Front of Judea [without the humor]. However, the Sukour al-Sham lot are deeply tied into Saudi Arabian interests. The Saudis constructed a massive underground base for the in the al-Jawieh mountain. I may have posted a video earlier showing it in its luxurious splendor after being captured intact by al-Nusra (as was then) forces.

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 29 2017 11:55 utc | 61

@ Peter AU – what planet are you on? So kids who go off to study overseas are now traitors. In case you haven’t been reading anything other than claptrap on right wing blogs the vast majority of people who are getting fucked over by this stunt are students who have managed to scrape together the money (mostly through loans) to get a post grad qual in amerika – that is who your traitors are. I bet they still get stuck for tuition and still owe for their loans even tho they never got to complete. What sort of a scum-sucking apologist for scum-suckers labels everyone who travels a traitor? How about accepting there are a million different stories 99.99% of which all the vicarious observers playing Judge Judy can never know or even imagine.
As I have posted here before I have met a number of humans who left Syria since the civil war kicked off. Few if any support the Takfiris but they aren’t exactly brimming with love for the government either. Mostly they are just people who want to live their lives free of the buffeting and bullshit created by the power hungry assholes on both sides who put their own need to be top dog over and above the need of all other Syrians to live their lives.
I recognise that isn’t a popular position to hold on a board most of whose readers have deluded themselves into believing Assad’s shit doesn’t stink, but there you go.
As for the Vietnamese boat people, I lived in Darwin during the time when the boats came in and as I wrote the other day, my flatmate was an Immigration department employee who for a couple of years had the job of getting aboard the boats to interview the new arrivals as soon as they appeared. The truth is that the vast majority weren’t capitalists and they weren’t communists, they were young ethnic Chinese people whose families paid to get the kids a passage on a boat because the pointy end of the new regime decided to appease Saigon locals by waging a pogrom against the Saigon Chinese. A well known old trick but a goodie. Pick an unpopular ethnic minority and fuck em up – you win over the bulk of the assholes at the same time as you scare the living bejeesus outta the ‘normal’ population who think “there but for fucking good luck go I”.
There was a time before I knew the ‘boat people’ that I had a similar position to yours, imagining quite incorrectly these people must be counter -revolutionary cads. Then I got to know them and learned that they were a/ non-political – apolitical actually, and b/ none of em had worked for amerika – most of them would have been pre-pubescent when amerika was butchering Vietnamese.
The anti Chinese pogrom ended after a time and friends I made among the Vietnamese refugee community brought their families across to Australia, established good relations with the Hanoi government and now work to encourage trade between Vietnam and Oz. The Vietnamese certainly don’t consider them traitors, so why would you? My own contact with them was through our union, good members who always followed through on any action we had to take – unlike a lot of the middle class whitefellas.
Life is never that simple, only looney wanna-be mass murderers ever dismiss a whole group of people on the grounds that they have breached some theoretical morality, usually one dreamed up by wannabe butchers.
Imagine for a moment you are a 20 year old stateless person born in Damascus. You don’t have a home country or a passport because your grand-parents were driven outta Palestine by a gang of child raping zionist thugs. Your parents who don’t know Palestine either and they still talk about going ‘home’ but it means nothing to you because you feel no connection, the PLO just summons the image of a bunch of fat old gangsters parasiting off everyone else in the camp – which isn’t a camp it is/was a suburb of Damascus. Sure you loathe the zionists but all these types sitting around talking about a day that can never happen because everything is just despair and frustration, don’t inspire you with any confidence either. Yep it makes you really angry when you think about that is how the zionist nazis want you to feel, but that doesn’t magic you away to a better world it just leaves you angry.
You can rationalise why everyone feels like that and accept that israelis are the lowest life shit-bags who ever drew breath, but you still ask yourself “Is this it?” “I’m 20 and all I’m ever gonna know is this hopelessness, this total despair?”
Back before amerika forced their closure, the UN made sure everyone in the camp went to school and got a good education – trouble is you can’t work in Syria, see you’re not allowed to do that. It was a condition the Ba’athists made when your grandparents arrived. They didn’t object cos they only expected to be away a year or two but it has been more than 50 years and that doesn’t look like changing anytime soon.
Once the terrorists and the government started fighting using your home suburb as a battlefield you truly had no home, so you decided to leave Syria and get a job so you could provide for your family. After more money, danger and sheer shit scary uncertainty you made it to europe waited filled out enough forms to wipe a million assholes, then eventually got a gig in a ‘western’ country on the basis of your great tech/scripting skills. Now you have a job, your wife has had your children, and everything should be fine but some no-nothing in Oz claims you’re a traitor – who to? Who has this dude betrayed? I can name about a kazillion low lifes who betrayed him, but I just don’t see how anyone can claim that some bloke who has put everything of himself on the line, risking his life & his sanity to just live a normal life, can be accused of treason.
Did he betray the ‘revolution’? Silly me I always thought the revolution was about providing ordinary people with a life, I didn’t realise it was an end in itself, that when it couldn’t deliver that promised life, everyone must still keep on in their misery for the sake of this ‘revolution’ even though blind Freddie can see it is never gonna happen. Not unless a whole lot more people currently sitting around judging everyone get off their own asses and actually take a few real risks themself.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 29 2017 12:14 utc | 63

@ jfl 64
SSDD in Yemen, too with an American soldier getting killed and a few more hurt. Why? To kill family considered an ally of al Qaeda while looking for an al Qaeda leader but they still “captured ‘information that will likely provide insight into the planning of future terror plots.'” You can’t make this stuff up.
from:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-yemen-united-state-raid-20170129-story.html

Posted by: Curtis | Jan 29 2017 13:50 utc | 65

I believe that the drought had a lot to do with Turkey stealing the river water.
Regardless, every country has factions and real disputes. What typically creates civil war in a country is the US and its allies pouring money, support and weapons into one or several factions. Probably the most peaceful country can be brought crashing down into civil war this way.
But of course the smart ones will invariably tell us that the war was caused by everything BUT US and allied intervention because that would be a – horrors! shudders!! – CONSPIRACY THEORY!!
Can’t have those little devils wandering about, no matter how right they may be – stamp them out! Stamp them out!

Posted by: paul | Jan 29 2017 14:34 utc | 67

Debsisdead @63:

… I have met a number of humans who left Syria since the civil war kicked off. Few if any support the Takfiris but they aren’t exactly brimming with love for the government either.

Its those “few” bad apples that Trump wants to guard against.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 29 2017 15:30 utc | 69

Debsisdead @63:

I recognize that isn’t a popular position to hold on a board most of whose readers have deluded themselves into believing Assad’s shit doesn’t stink, but there you go.

You have to decide for yourself what you think is the greater evil: Assad or the Assad must go! Coalition that is using extremists as a weapon of State.
To me, the paramount evil is the use of extremists. It’s a crime against humanity. And, as I’m not Syrian, I don’t feel that I can say who should lead Syria.
Most commenters here seem to have a similar view.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 29 2017 16:34 utc | 71

@69
According to you! It makes real sense to punish the many for the alliances of the few; please spare us your failed logic and twisted projection and convenient excuse for an inconvenient reality.
This ban is a pathetic means for keeping the refugees out to release himself of the responsibility of sheltering people who have nothing from countries that the U.S. destroyed and refusing to have the U.S. assume this burden as it should rightly do; it’s about doing Zionist bidding on Iran, and it’s also about controlling the Muslim population in the U.S. as in: discrimination, because through normal immigration the numbers are much lower. Quit spinning an inconvenient fact.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 29 2017 16:44 utc | 73

@ Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 29, 2017 10:39:54 AM | 70
Concur.
The previous Congress did not create a legal precedent by breaching International & Domestic Sovereign Immunity Law and opening a Pandora’s Box, to allow for prosecutions of the State of Saudi-Arabia, it’s citizens and government officials, even subsequent sanctions & more, by passing the relevant legislation in 2016 by accident. And the KSA and House of Al-Saud and all their moneyed lobbyists, did NOT prevent it … as some would tritely wish to suggest/project …
Just as Saddam Hussein was lured into attacking Iran in the Iraq-Iran War & then Kuwait, suspect we may have ‘lured/enticed/encouraged’, hands-off, the KSA into their ‘Mini-Vietnam‘ in Yemen. It is necessary to set the stage, undermine the foundations, weaken the structure, before demolishing the House … it takes time and preparation, a lead-up and lead-in … what if ‘dramatic’ incriminating evidence re KSA & GCC involvement with ISIS and Al-Qaeda, etc was conveniently ‘discovered’ & publicly dramatically exposed re Syria, and then referenced back to 9/11 & the ‘Secret’ Saudi appendix (never actioned) ?
IF the current administration truly seeks the destruction of ISIS & Islamic Terrorism, then the KSA & GCC may well be on borrowed time … and conveniently sitting on an awful lot of feebly protected ‘Oil‘ and ‘Natural Gas‘. Protected, security guaranteed, ironically, by us.
@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 29, 2017 11:34:52 AM | 71
Concur.
@ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 29, 2017 7:14:08 AM | 63
The reference Paul AU made was specifically to ‘Interpreters’ who enter into service for a foreign nation, an invading aggressor, and similar context re many refugees as ‘collaborators/traitors’ re the Sth Vietnamese puppet government and the aggressor, the US of A … and is it not strange, that many flee to seek refuge from the very country most responsible for the tragedy that is their lot, and has been and is Syria today …
In Somalia in the early ’90’s, it was realized after about 8 months in, that our ‘surprise’ snatch n bag raids, cordon & search and other operations were regularly hitting ’empty air’, despite sound intel work in the lead-up … all OPSEC was reviewed, and certain CI Ops were conducted to confirm suspicions … result, 9 out of 10 of the ‘Volunteer Interpreters/Guides’ were confirmed as actively working as double agents for Aidid and/or the other warlords … the volunteer ‘walk-ins’, as in most similar situations (Embassies/Consulates) are usually … charming, persuasive, opportunists …
Most were ‘walk-ins’, some were approached/recruited directly, however, virtually all were discovered to be fundamentally compromised, either before they ‘walked-in’ or targeted and ‘turned’ shortly after they were recruited … this lesson was not learnt re the Iraq Invasion of 2003 …
On the ground, in person, it was considered those who had shared meals, quarters and served alongside, yet worked for Aidid, were traitors … yet from the perspective of the Somali’s, those who ‘collaborated’ with UN/US forces … were the real traitors …
In Chinese antiquity inward & converted spies (traitors/collaborators(interpreters?/guides?))(Sun Tzu) were typically treated with great respect and given wide liberties/privileges, comforts and rewards … yet, when the ‘conflict’ was over … they were usually promptly put to death …

The Treason pleases, but the Traitors are odious – Miguel De Cervantes
No wise man ever thought that a traitor should be trusted – Marcus Tullius Cicero
I forgive those who murder and steal because they did it out of necessity, but a traitor, never – Emilio Zapata

Grasping at whatever chance presents to protect/advance oneself and family, as ‘uninvolved’ human flotsam caught up within the maelstrom, is entirely understandable, as you say.
@ Posted by: Circe | Jan 29, 2017 11:44:10 AM | 73
Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, Zionist bidding, blah, blah. Maybe you should do a search on the keywords ‘ADL Trump’ & ‘AIPAC Trump’, hm ?

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 29 2017 16:53 utc | 75

@51 peter.. okay thanks.. i must be mixing you up with paul or someone else..
@54 peter au… i wish it was as simple as that.. you seem like a bright guy otherwise! i think it is much more complicated.. i do understand the desire on the part of some to leave there country when they are being invaded by ‘moderate headchoppers’ that the usa, saudi arabia and etc are sending to there country… no doubt there are people that are traitors to their country as well, but that gets difficult to read in complicated situations which is what syria and iraq – as 2 examples – are..
@60 harrylaw… thanks for the link… ford is a first rate a-hole and bullshitter persona.. – i guess that is why he got the gig and position of power he had as ambassador to syria.. to quote him “I don’t agree at all with Ahrar al Sham’s desires to set up an Islamic State (in Syria).. but I have to admit that they accept the needs to be a political negotiation..” fuck off with that shit – political negotiation.. who negotiates with fanatics who want to set up sharia law and are willing to chop people’s heads off, if they don’t jump on board? what a friggin’ horrible liar he is… i hope he rots in hell with his headchopping buddies..

Posted by: james | Jan 29 2017 17:04 utc | 77

@ Paveway IV 15
You & b are the main reason I slog thru the Comments of every MoA post – much respect.
I am not in support of the 21st Century ruling class of Syria, but I offer this mitigating argument, sadly without citation:
Assad did try to obtain financial and technical help from the USA to combat the drought and decrease in crop yields. At the time, he felt that his cooperation with the CIA’s “black site” operations gave Syria the right to expect American support from the USDA, USAID, and other agencies. I’m sure that they strung him along with promises of support that never quite materialized. The lack of drought support also coincided with the American indifference to the Iraqi refuge crisis. By the time Assad saw the true American policy towards Syria, he was quite a bit behind the curve for easy solutions.

Posted by: Enrico Malatesta | Jan 29 2017 17:44 utc | 79

Harry @ 74 says:
Plus Assad is better than other leaders in that region,…
Assad and Nasrallah were the two most popular leaders in the Arab world before the war was even started. the fact that Assad’s popularity has soared since 2012 is all the proof you need to know just how horrified the Syrian people are of the prospect of having head chopping lunatics running rampant in Damascus.
also, in these last five years, well over 100,000 SAA soldiers have lost their lives in allegiance to their commander-in-chief.

Posted by: john | Jan 29 2017 18:08 utc | 81

Again Jackrabbit you’re avoiding the fact that most Syrian fighters aren’t even Syrian. So that you see Syrian refugees as a monolith of “indoctrinated, fanatical killers” requiring historically special sanction, is sort of weird. Especially for a MoA regular. (Losing Project not included ofc)

Posted by: sejomoje | Jan 29 2017 19:20 utc | 83

Speaking of composition of the rebels in Syria, ‘b’ mentioned that even SOHR(!) admitted that 62% of dead fighters are foreign. Considering the source, I can bet that actual number of foreigners is greater than that.
Also its neither all fanatics or all mercenaries, its both (although IMHO most are mercenaries). For example, Syria’s economy is nearly killed, and people have to feed their families, so if Saudis/Qatar approaches them with 500-1500USD monthly salaries, for some less scrupulous people it can be enough to turn against own country.
What to speak of several billion of starving people around the World, a massive and nearly never ending pool of cannon fodder who are stupid enough (or too desperate) to sign on. Unless terrorists are defeated decisively (or terrorist sponsors pursued to stop), this terror war can continue indefinitely.

Posted by: Harry | Jan 29 2017 19:49 utc | 85

Then [Trump] excused Pakistan, a Salafist haven; the country that harboured Bin-Laden and AQ in Waziristan. Circe
It may be a surprise, but Pakistan is NOT a Salafist haven. While a large majority of Pakistanis are Sunni Muslim, and there are extremist organizations that have a “haven”, but even the extremist Sunnis of Pakistan are mostly non-Salafi. I was not aware of that until I read about theological justifications for ISIS – al-Qaeda split, which is roughly how one should deal with non Salafis. And it is precisely in Afghanistan and Pakistan where it makes a huge difference. To wit, al-Qaeda was and is cosy with the Taliban, and Taliban follows Deobandi theology which leads to similar conclusions as Salafis/Wahhabis, but with a different justification, different fiqh. So Salafists of al-Qaeda are OK with deobandis like Taliban, as long as they do the same things as they do, but ISIS requires to follow the same fiqh, and I can never remember who is Hanbali and who is Hanafi, but to those people it makes a huge difference.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 29 2017 20:00 utc | 87

“Speaking of composition of the rebels in Syria, ‘b’ mentioned that even SOHR(!) admitted that 62% of dead fighters are foreign. Considering the source, I can bet that actual number of foreigners is greater than that.” Posted by: Harry
That is not completely representative, because the command has to choose who goes on suicidal missions or attacks with high casualty rates, and that is mostly foreign jihadists, as they the commanders need some modicum of local support. But it shows that without foreign jihadists, the war could be already over.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 29 2017 20:14 utc | 89

Globalists/Democrats are focusing on how “America First” is inconvenient for women and refugees.
What they like to ignore is the suffering that “Empire First” caused. Where is outcry at Obama’s “leading from behind” while so-called ‘allies’ used extremists as a weapon of State?
Unhappy with Trump? Stop complaining and help to create a progressive Movement that throws off the corrupt Democratic Party and the financial backers that they really work for.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 29 2017 20:31 utc | 91

Enrico Malatesta@79 – Much of what I understood about the conditions prior to the war is covered in this rather longish but detailed William Polk article in The Atlantic: Understanding Syria: From Pre-Civil War to Post-Assad. He mentions USAID’s refusal to provide help to Syria, but I suppose the R2P writing was already on the wall by then. It was only a matter of when – not if – the U.S. would move to overthrow Assad.
Mina in another thread said the situation was bad, but not enough (at least by itself) to account for any kind of organic revolutionary uprisings – that the initial protests were entirely manufactured by the U.S. and cronies. There was dissatisfaction, but the protests were never impoverished Syrian farmers demanding social justice (as Polk’s article would lead one to assume). All the public protests were 100% foreign-inspired jihadi revolutionaries piggybacking on the general discontent, but not representative of it. I’m not doing justice to her argument. Please jump in if you’re reading this, Mina.
My argument for the ever-popular Louis Proyect@6 post wasn’t for justifying revolution. The part of Proyect’s argument I agreed with was that 1) as explained in The Atlantic article, the drought precipitated the dire conditions in Syria (at least by 2008), and 2) the Baathist government – with or without Assad as president – would have continued to not- or mis-handle the situation (as they had done prior to 2008) and only made things worse in the near-term. That doesn’t automatically mean Syrians would eventually have revolted themselves without outside meddling. I don’t know what they would have done, but there was little to suggest things would be getting better any time soon. It is not entirely the Baathists fault, but they offered little (that I can see) in the way of relief. By that time, the Syrian Baath party seemed to have devolved into factionalized squabbling and corruption (but probably no worse than other Middle East neighbors).
That doesn’t mean I think Syria needed a revolution and damn sure didn’t need any U.S. R2P-inspired one. It means I think Syria was kind of screwed by 2008 and things would have continued to be bad because of – in part – the drought. Neither the Baathists nor Assad seemed to be the cure (looking in from the outside), but replacing them was’t anyone’s call to make but the Syrians.
The bottom line is that – if left alone – Syria would have muddled through it somehow and adjusted. There’s no reason to think they wouldn’t have – they’ve been living there for a few millennia. Instead, the U.S. just took the opportunity to kick them in the head when they were temporarily down to beat some R2P neocon central-banker hegemonic sense into them.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 30 2017 6:36 utc | 93

Unhappy with Trump? Stop complaining and help to create a progressive Movement that throws off the corrupt Democratic Party and the financial backers that they really work for.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 29, 2017 3:31:42 PM | 91
Spot on assessment of the current state of play, and there is – and was – plenty to take Trump down with policy wise. Instead we got #FakeNews and “he grabbed my muffin”. Sorry, that’s not an attack on policy and exactly why Trump won.
The Dems haven’t been able to throw off the Barry O’Clinton corrupt pay-for-play/pay-for-office model of inept governance. The corpse of 2008-2016 is still trashing about, still half full of dirty cash. Still hurt by not allowing/theft of a Bernie candidacy…who knows, new blood like Gabbard may have risen naturally within the party before 2017, and not get smeared by her own for not towing the establishment narrative after 2017. What a colossal mess. Haha. Comical.
I share your view from a post in a previous thread re: a large space for a fledgling party to emerge eg;Pirate Party. Trump has filed to stand reelection yet the dems are mobilising around what exactly…? Around a departed charlatan…?

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 30 2017 8:04 utc | 95

P4 that s not what i said. I ll expand later.

Posted by: Mina | Jan 30 2017 9:35 utc | 97

Oh dear. After much speculation during the past week, President Donald Trump spoke with Saudi Arabia’s King Salman by phone on Sunday, and they have agreed to support safe zones in both Syria and Yemen, according to the White House.
Strengthened military cooperation between the US and Saudi Arabia will have immediate repercussions in a region where the US government has been at war since 2001.
Trump was joined during the call by National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, chief of staff Reince Priebus, and chief strategist Stephen Bannon.https://www.libertarianinstitute.org/2017/01/trump-saudi-king-salman-agree-safe-zones-syria-yemen/ Could Trump be doubling down on backing the Saudis/Israelis in their war against Assad?

Posted by: harrylaw | Jan 30 2017 12:16 utc | 99