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January 21, 2017
Open Thread 2017-03
News & views …
Comments
pw @189, ‘… or are they intentionally making the civilians there suffer as much as humanly possible?’
… that ought to differentiate china and the usa in the eyes of anyone who cares at all about the palestinians. presumably there are sill some arabs and muslims somewhere in the middle east who still do. no ‘jihadists’, of course. they’re all allied with israel. and none in any middle eastern government, outside of iran. Posted by: jfl | Jan 23 2017 10:20 utc | 201 @Peter AU | Jan 22, 2017 8:56:24 PM | 165 Posted by: smuks | Jan 23 2017 10:21 utc | 202 re 197 Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 23 2017 10:53 utc | 203 In reply to “Passerby”, entry 147. I can’t say 100% that you’re wrong because Western intervention in the Ukraine and the ME is such a big subject. One reads any number of explanations or justifications for that intervention and there’s no certainty any of them are right. There’s one justification I don’t see put forward, however, unless for PR purposes and then only as a matter of form, and that is the excuse that our interventions in these regions are for the purpose of protecting Human Rights. Yet this, I’m pretty sure, is what you are saying when you write this:- Posted by: EnglishOutsider | Jan 23 2017 11:29 utc | 205 Must read, from Aleppo Posted by: Mina | Jan 23 2017 11:37 utc | 206 @Posted by: Mina | Jan 23, 2017 6:37:01 AM | 205 Posted by: OJS | Jan 23 2017 12:33 utc | 208 @201 smuks Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 23 2017 12:37 utc | 209 @john | Jan 23, 2017 7:10:09 AM | 207 Posted by: OJS | Jan 23 2017 12:38 utc | 210 Dang!..you people you are missing the reality train again,come on get up to speed while your mind is being messed up!The reality ‘setters’ are creating new paradoxs while you are still frozen like a deer caught in the old fake highlights. Posted by: Nur Adlina | Jan 23 2017 14:02 utc | 211 Hm, all this talk of energy independence is all good & well … though do like the association of Saudi Arabia with ‘our enemies’ part though.
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 15:01 utc | 212 Laguerre@195, mina – Re: Asharq Al-Awsat – their banner looks a little familiar so I must have seen things on their site before, but I’m surprised they haven’t come up more often in search results. Some sites do not allow search engine indexing of their english-language editions. I don’t recall the newspaper being cited much in other on-line sources or linked to in articles/blogs, but maybe I just haven’t noticed (or it’s peculiar to Syrian coverage). Al Hayat / Al Monitor is familiar, but I never knew it was the ‘other’ major Arab-language newspaper. I feel like a perfect fool now, but thanks for the education. Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 23 2017 15:01 utc | 213 Hey Outraged, Posted by: Not outraged | Jan 23 2017 15:37 utc | 214 @ Posted by: Not outraged | Jan 23, 2017 10:37:15 AM | 214
If the latter part of the quote didn’t give the quote away, given the fact the quote is from Oscar Wilde, a very well-known ‘wit’, should provide an ‘indicator’. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 16:02 utc | 215 addendum # 207: Posted by: john | Jan 23 2017 16:43 utc | 216 Mina at 205. I was struck by this passage: Les « Casques blancs », que le gouvernement français a financé entre autres et que nous avons reçus à l’Elysée sont, pour un grand nombre d’entre eux, secouristes le jour et terroristes la nuit, et vice-versa ; Ils ont prêté allégeance à Jabhat al-Nosra (Al-Qaïda), comme le prouvent les documents retrouvés après leur départ et comme en témoignent les habitants. Posted by: Noirette | Jan 23 2017 16:45 utc | 217 Thanks to all discussing Trump’s visit to the CIA on Sunday. I very much appreciate that information and analysis. Posted by: juliania | Jan 23 2017 17:03 utc | 218 Noirette @217, there was a video of some guy cutting off a Palestinian refugee kid’s head off with a pen knife. He was identified later as a White Helmet and a lot of media carried that story. Posted by: mischi | Jan 23 2017 17:08 utc | 219 @200 Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2017 17:12 utc | 220 @219 circe.. 64,000 question is does the us remain in the un? Posted by: james | Jan 23 2017 17:22 utc | 221 An observation & some unforgettin'(sic):
As that well spoken fella declared re calls for accountability, prosecution & punishment/sanction for the Torturers & their Command/Legal/Executive enablers:
– numerous embedded references/links/sources, further articles. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 17:37 utc | 222 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-mosul-idUSKBN157231 Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 23 2017 17:37 utc | 223 @220 Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2017 17:40 utc | 224 People in the U.S. seem unaware of the economic tsunami that is coming with the automation of workplaces with new technology to eliminate human workers, starting with self-driving vehicles, and moving on down the line until at least 50 percent of the working age population can’t find any job outside of sub-minimum work in the service sector – if they’re lucky. TPP was the keystone of this with it’s provision that national law is “trumped” – pardon the expression – by the interests of investors, and that democratically decreed laws can be repealed by nameless, unaccountable and secret trade courts. Posted by: rackstraw | Jan 23 2017 17:41 utc | 225
Posted by: lysias | Jan 23 2017 17:49 utc | 226 Seeing initial sketchy reports in foreign news of US and Russia conducting joint air operations in Syria. Posted by: Les | Jan 23 2017 17:50 utc | 227 Hm, what ever happened to closing Guantanamo on day one, eight years ago, what about the expansion of the ‘Surveillance State’ by Executive Order, what about doing something, ‘anything’ about those responsible for Enhanced Interrogations (TORTURE), as eventually partially reported by the long delayed & obstructed, Senate investigation.
Trump says torture works: Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2017 18:04 utc | 228 Russia has received coordinates of Daesh targets in Al-Bab, Aleppo Province, from the US via the ‘direct line,’ the Russian Defense Minsitry said Monday. Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 23 2017 18:12 utc | 229 @ Posted by: Les | Jan 23, 2017 12:50:31 PM | 226 Also starting at and subsequent followup:
YMMV Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 18:14 utc | 230 Already two days prior to the inauguration, the US attacks on al-Nusra in Idlib started. The US militaries did give a “F” on weather Obama likes it or not .. Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 23 2017 18:16 utc | 231 @ Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 23, 2017 1:12:20 PM | 229 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 18:19 utc | 232 Trump and Sisi discussed fighting terrorism in phone call: statement Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 23 2017 18:24 utc | 233 All apologies if this information is old or news that’s been repeated. Posted by: Wwinsti | Jan 23 2017 18:24 utc | 234 @ Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 23, 2017 1:12:20 PM | 229
See Whitehouse.gov website:
Also address to the CIA, first official visit:
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 18:31 utc | 236 @ Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 23, 2017 1:16:31 PM | 231
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 18:42 utc | 237 https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201701231049927674-russia-us-daesh-coordinates/ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 23 2017 18:58 utc | 238 @ 221: Gee, thanks for the revelation that Obama was, and is, a hypocrite and a liar. Who knew? But then, that’s what it takes to front for the empire. Posted by: ben | Jan 23 2017 19:05 utc | 239 Noirette 217 Posted by: Mina | Jan 23 2017 19:06 utc | 240 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 23, 2017 1:58:23 PM | 238
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 19:07 utc | 241 For the last few years, I have searched his name in the google, wondering when I would finally stumble upon the date of his death in bold print. In recent years and interviews he had shrunken down but still assumed an imposing physical presence. To me, the look in his eyes had gone beyond desperation, exhausted from touching upon the horrors of consumerism and the plight of migrants in Europe. Something else had set up shop with his diligent surveying of culture and globalist policy, but his work was now hastened by time . Once an unrepentant marxist, he now said things like: “there are two types of people and one of them reads Kierkegaard.” I came upon his work when I could not lift the burden of my enlightenment – tinged liberal education from my chest – but as the Iraq war had been the greatest destructive force that I have lived through, or, rather, seen from the safety of a tv, it became possible to feel from afar if one could only see. In any case…RIP John Berger. Now I will have to really get to know you. Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jan 23 2017 19:17 utc | 242 Draft translation of:
YMMV Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 19:18 utc | 243 Gotta give credit where credit is due. Another story on Mr. and the TPP. Posted by: ben | Jan 23 2017 19:21 utc | 244 Outraged | Jan 23, 2017 2:07:58 PM | 241 Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 23 2017 19:22 utc | 245 I read this funny comment somewhere about Trump: Posted by: mischi | Jan 23 2017 19:24 utc | 246 MUST SEE Posted by: Mina | Jan 23 2017 19:26 utc | 247 It is one of the illusions of the West, that its human rights, its willingness to dialogue, or the virtues of its culture, earn it the respect of the the clan-based societies of Africa, Arabia, and Asia, or the peoples of South and East Europe. Rather, they are interpreted as a sign of effeminacy and weakness. They are interpreted as traits that one tries to exploit in order to optimize one’s own power and odds of winning. Posted by: passerby | Jan 23 2017 19:28 utc | 248 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 23, 2017 2:22:47 PM | 245
My thoughts align with the former, a pragmatist, an American historical Nativist closest to the strain circa 1800 thru to 1890’s, with a strong strain of jingoistic ‘Patriotism’ of the old school traditional kind. Though just merely an overall impression.
It’s all very opaque. Destroying ISIS and the moderate head-choppers is directly against Israel’s strategic interests & policies. Only time and Deeds will elucidate. IMV Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 19:47 utc | 249 Check that, Noirette, same profile as Le Mesurier, NATO-related guys behind the WH/medics Posted by: Mina | Jan 23 2017 19:51 utc | 250 Israel is pro-ISIS and rejects the notion of a U.S.-Russian alliance to destroy ISIS:
Hillary Clinton and Ashton Carter and John McCain, in contrast to Trump, were promoters of a no-fly zone in Syria that would have given Al Qaeda and ISIS an advantage over the Syrian government, even if it meant direct military conflict between American and Russian air forces. That earns them the lunatic-of-the-year award. And just to review, here are some quotes on why there was so much eagerness to implement regime change in Syria, related to Aleppo and Deir Ezzor:
This expansion of Syrian-Iranian-Russian economic cooperation seems to have greatly alarmed Israel and the US and Saudi Arabia, and is the best explanation for the covert regime change effort in Syria since 2011, which notably had an Aleppo and Deir Ezzor focus:
In contrast, the rational perspective is that the US can live with this kind of situation, and even profit off it by continuing to do business with all parties (mainly Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran) in the region, but that the Israelis have to be soothed and coddled as usual, so give them the Jerusalem embassy to ease their fears. I’d hope that’s what Trump is planning on, we’ll see.
Posted by: nonsense factory | Jan 23 2017 20:26 utc | 251 @ Posted by: nonsense factory | Jan 23, 2017 3:26:23 PM | 253
Possible, even likely, perhaps, IMV. Indeed, deeds/actions/events … we’ll see. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 20:35 utc | 252 That was a pretty good idea. It took only four years to transform it into the so called Arab spring. And now no one will care about it anymore. Posted by: Mina | Jan 23 2017 20:42 utc | 253 @ Posted by: ben | Jan 23, 2017 2:05:56 PM | 241 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2017 21:07 utc | 254 @214 pw, ‘Ar Raqqa is the U.S.’s last-ditch effort to have something on the Euphrates to serve as a moderate Sunnistan capital.’ Posted by: jfl | Jan 23 2017 21:18 utc | 255 More on WH Posted by: Mina | Jan 23 2017 21:19 utc | 256 jfl@257 – Re: U.S. designs on Ar Raqqa. It strikes me that the U.S. has an obsession with ar Raqqa and Tabqa. That doesn’t strike me as any kind of pure ISIS-battling motive. They would be better off leaving it for now, I mean – what’s the hurry? ISIS capitol – who cares? It is not an immediate threat to the Kurds. Why the U.S. interest there and (apparently) little interest in al Bab or Deir EzZor? Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 23 2017 22:43 utc | 257 I would like to draw attention to the link furnished by NemesisCalling@244. It’s a beautiful piece by John Berger, written before the US invasion of Iraq. A wee bit, and then his final words: Posted by: juliania | Jan 24 2017 1:17 utc | 258 2017 Is 1984 Psycho-Feudalism In America Posted by: blues | Jan 24 2017 2:37 utc | 259 Moving the embassy to Jerusalem means it’s safer there… 😉 Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 24 2017 6:15 utc | 260 In reply to “EnglishOutsider”, entry 205. Posted by: passerby | Jan 24 2017 9:00 utc | 261 https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201701231049910053-russia-syria-tu22-daesh/ Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 24 2017 9:55 utc | 262 Empire Files: US-Russia Relations in “Most Dangerous Moment” Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 24 2017 10:35 utc | 263 Mina, @ 242, i am aware of V. Beeley, she is good and brave, kudos, and she has quite some ‘alt’ media exposure. Posted by: Noirette | Jan 24 2017 18:01 utc | 264 So, Trump has been president for 3 days now. When will HE get his Nobel Peace Prize? mischi @ 248. Posted by: Noirette | Jan 24 2017 18:22 utc | 265 passerby@263: Posted by: juliania | Jan 24 2017 19:21 utc | 266 this leader of the opposition Mohammed Alloush is connected to Jaysh al-Islam.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam Posted by: james | Jan 24 2017 19:49 utc | 267 “Newt Gingrich: Trump Should Use The CNN Confrontation As An Excuse To Break The Press” Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 24 2017 22:41 utc | 268 @ Posted by: juliania | Jan 24, 2017 2:21:53 PM | 268 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 25 2017 1:35 utc | 269 German, Belgian NATO troops arrive in Lithuania Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 25 2017 16:32 utc | 270 @ Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 25, 2017 11:32:12 AM | 272 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 26 2017 2:02 utc | 271 A trifecta of ‘getting-close-to-prophetic’ Brexit Posts by b last June now have their commentary closed. Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 26 2017 2:38 utc | 272 While the fake, irrational, confused left continue their wayward march to the piper’s tune, there are, and have been, educated voices inside the real left that are genuine about serious reform, which includes a return to sound money that ideas like public banking would provide. Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 26 2017 3:45 utc | 273 ^^ Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 26 2017 3:50 utc | 274 Chelsea Manning Op-Ed Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 26 2017 16:47 utc | 275 277 Posted by: john | Jan 26 2017 17:49 utc | 276 Buttressing the narrative of Obama as a well-meaning progressive that was blocked by the dark forces of the right ONLY serves the interests of the Democratic Party establishment. Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 26 2017 18:29 utc | 277 Over 90 percent of water in besieged Gaza unfit for use: Official
primo levi said “Everybody is somebody’s Jew.” Posted by: jfl | Jan 26 2017 22:58 utc | 278
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 26 2017 23:57 utc | 279 Trump Freezes Obama’s Last-Minute Release of $220M to Palestine
i haven’t heard that the contract for walling off mexico has gone to the israelis … yet. Posted by: jfl | Jan 27 2017 4:12 utc | 280 jfl, its Chinese New year today and I presume it must be wild with firecrackers? I believe there are more than 10 overseas Chinese in where you are living? Posted by: OJS | Jan 27 2017 4:50 utc | 281 ojs, Posted by: jfl | Jan 27 2017 6:54 utc | 283 Amazing, its the Obama fever all over again ! Posted by: denk | Jan 27 2017 15:59 utc | 284 Russia betrays Syria with constitutional draft that decentralizes the Ba’athist Syrian state. Exactly what Israel & US want: Posted by: David | Jan 28 2017 8:54 utc | 285 We can see it today very clearly: Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 29 2017 5:29 utc | 286 @289 pp Posted by: jfl | Jan 30 2017 9:46 utc | 287 @David 288 Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 30 2017 12:00 utc | 288 |
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