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January 21, 2017

Open Thread 2017-03

News & views ...

Posted by b on January 21, 2017 at 18:04 UTC | Permalink

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Trump team publish first statement on Trump's foreign policy:

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 18:06 utc | 1

Xi Jinping's attempt to appease the neoliberal hyenas

Posted by: nmb | Jan 21 2017 18:09 utc | 2

for the canuck readers, john helmer has some scathing info out on chrystia freeland..

Posted by: james | Jan 21 2017 18:45 utc | 3

@ 2: Thanks for the link. Could this be the death of the BRICS alliance? Time will tell.

Posted by: ben | Jan 21 2017 19:13 utc | 4

@2 In 19th century, UK was the leading economic power, the ultra-liberal one pushing for free trade and globalization because it benefited from this. Funnily, US had a very protectionist policy with punishing tariffs. In 20th century, US was the leading economic power, the one pushing for free-trade and globalization. In both cases/centuries, the economic powerhouse relied at times on military force and coups to break countries open and to regime-change, so that more countries would go the free-trade laissez-faire market way.
I'm thinking Jinping is now pushing for China to take on the mantle of 21th century economic behemoth, therefore the one who'll benefit the more from globalization and free-trade, meanwhile declining US economic power shifts more towards protectionism.
Also worth noting that the British economic peak came after the Napoleonic wars had wrecked most of Europe, and the US economic dominance was cemented by 2 world wars...

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 21 2017 19:42 utc | 5

@3 : thanks for that link.

Could not understand why Chrystia Freeland would be appointed Foreign Affairs minister when she was so belligerent in that field, or why the appointment when the incoming US administration had already indicated they wanted to dial the belligerence way back.

While sins of relatives should not necessarily carry over, Helmer's info suggests that Freeland has offered a deliberately sanitized version of her family history, and that Freeland's animosity to Russia is based on her family's ideological position, not objective analysis. Again, bad recipe for a country's top diplomat.

Freeland's family history represents a dirty secret from the post-WW2 era: the movement of many thousands of fascist collaborating peoples from Eastern Europe to North America to protect them from retribution, to act as future agents against the USSR, and (perhaps initially unforeseen) to infect North American politics with rabid fascistic political tendencies. Much is made in Canada, for example, about a large Ukrainian immigrant population who hold sway in national politics, but very little is made about what these people actually represented when they first arrived.

Posted by: jayc | Jan 21 2017 19:43 utc | 6


The UK also took in 7000 Ukrainian members of the 14th Waffen SS Galicia Division.

On both sides of the Atlantic the Ukrainian nationalist diaspora have got themselves into positions of influence, and play a big part of reviving their ideology in Ukraine.

They've had roles in multiple administrations in the US and some of their children now work for the Kiev government, creating laws such as the glorification of Bandera and pushing for Decommunusation.

They even run scout camps in the US teaching children how to live like Bandera.

They probably got a free pass because of their opposition to the USSR. Their hosts knew they may come in useful at some point. Only took 70 years but they eventually came into use, only with today's Russia as the mutual enemy.

Posted by: Bob | Jan 21 2017 20:03 utc | 7

Why are liberals so perverse?

Actress Ashley Judd Accuses Donald Trump of Having ‘Wet Dreams’ About His Daughter in Vile Rant at Women’s March on Washington

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 21:18 utc | 8

re Bob 7

Whatever Ukrainian influence, I don't have much fear. Ukraine is such a basket-case, that anyone would hesitate. NATO and EU membership are both impossible. If they're admitted to either, I'll be building my fallout shelter.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 21 2017 21:21 utc | 9

DJT first official visit a circle-jerk at Langley CIA.

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Jan 21 2017 21:30 utc | 10

Posted by: nmb | Jan 21, 2017 1:09:42 PM | 2

No, it is "China first" China profits from globalism.

Posted by: somebody | Jan 21 2017 21:34 utc | 11

ben @4 - Thanks. True, time will tell, but let's hope that it won't happen. BRICS are the only force right now that could decelerate the brutal onslaught of the global neoliberal authoritarianism.

CluelessJoe @5 - Thanks. Interesting remarks.

Posted by: nmb | Jan 21 2017 21:41 utc | 12

So what of the Middle East? Trump hasn't appointed most of his team yet. Are US forces on hold, or continuing the old policy, while waiting for new instructions?

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 21 2017 21:45 utc | 13


Any change, if there is going to be any will of course take months to carry out. Dont hold your breath.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 21:46 utc | 14

somebody @11 - True, but it doesn't mean that China wants to adopt fully the neoliberal free market fundamentalism. I think the Chinese leadership tries to find a balance between free market and some kind of 'silent' protectionism (a hard balance indeed).

Posted by: nmb | Jan 21 2017 21:47 utc | 15

Posted by: ben | Jan 21, 2017 2:13:21 PM | 4

BRICS are all free trade. Russia and Brazil have resources to sell and China and India products and services. They have formed an insurance against Western pressure.

India is the only one with a negative trade balance. But they depend on free trade for imports.

For most countries protectionism is not a modern economic option. The US are among the few that can afford it.

Britain's exit from the EU will not mean protectionism. They will try to strike direct deals with China and India.

Posted by: somebody | Jan 21 2017 21:54 utc | 16

About Canada's Freeland. There are two stories at Russia insider about her. One talks about how she wants Justin Trudeau's job (and, btw, just how stupid people think he is) and how her family was a bunch of Nazis. I don't want to post a link in case I get accused or promoting other sites.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 21 2017 21:57 utc | 17

Canada's politicians have a long history of pandering to some groups in order to win votes - the Tamil tigers were not declared a terrorist organization in Canada for quite a long time, and now the Liberals are huffing and puffing against Russia to garner the large Ukrainian community vote out West where they need it most.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 21 2017 21:59 utc | 18

Is it correct that Freeland grandparents were involved with nazis in Ukraine?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 22:07 utc | 19

@CluelessJoe | Jan 21, 2017 2:42:01 PM | 5

In 19th century, UK was the leading economic power, the ultra-liberal one pushing for free trade and globalization because it benefited from this

100% Rubbish! UK was a leading colonial’s power. Her vast colonies with slaves provided cheap Labor and goods. Next was France, Germany, The Netherlands, Amerika, Belgium, Portugal, Spain, Russia, blah, blah...

That was NOT free trade but slave trade or today Globalization.

China suffered a century of humiliation from the colonial powers. She now awakes and had no intention replacing Amerika as superpower. What Xi has in mind for the benefits of its citizens and share her knows how for mutual benefits both the donor and recipients.

China concentrates in infrastructure, like roads, dams, railroad etc... in Africa, Latin America, Asia and even MiddleEast and other 3rd world countries and benefit in return

Posted by: OJS | Jan 21 2017 22:09 utc | 20

re anonymous 14

Of course in ancient times, no-one would dare continue a war a previous ruler had launched. You had to wait for new instructions, or be condemned.

Today, it's a risk of career, if you do something the new commander-in-chief might disapprove of. Better play safe, and not do too much, until you have a clear signal.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 21 2017 22:16 utc | 21

from @1 anonymous' link ...

America First Foreign Policy

I Peace through strength will ... make possible a stable, more peaceful world with less conflict and more common ground.

Defeating ISIS and other radical Islamic terror groups will be our highest priority.

To defeat and destroy these groups, we

  1 will pursue aggressive joint and coalition military operations when necessary.
  2 will work with international partners

  a to cut off funding for terrorist groups,
  b to expand intelligence sharing, and
  c to engage in cyberwarfare to disrupt and disable propaganda and recruiting.

  3 will rebuild the American military.

  a Our Navy has shrunk from more than 500 ships in 1991 to 275 in 2016.
  b Our Air Force is roughly one third smaller than in 1991.

  President Trump is committed to reversing this trend, because he knows that our military dominance must be unquestioned.

  4 will embrace diplomacy.

  a The world must know that we do not go abroad in search of enemies,
  b that we are always happy when old enemies become friends, and
  c when old friends become allies.

II Trade Deals Working For All Americans

  This strategy starts by

  1 withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership and

  2 making certain that any new trade deals are in the interests of American workers ...

  3 renegotiating NAFTA. If our partners refuse a renegotiation that gives American workers a fair deal, then the President will give notice of the United States’ intent to withdraw from NAFTA.

I.1 and I.4.b seem to presage the russian 'thaw' and cooperation in syria I.4.b seems to presage closer, even more disastrous ties to israel

I.2.a seems to back up tulsi gabbard's sata. I.2.c seems pretty scary.

I.3 ... the good times roll for the mic

Posted by: jfl | Jan 21 2017 22:17 utc | 22

It looks like that colored revolution you have been warning about has already started:

I certainly expect all of you to back the cops and the national guard when it begins cracking down on such protesters when they begin interfering with Trump's bid to implement an economic program formulated by his Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin whose OneWest Bank foreclosed on a 90 year old woman who was 27 cents short on a mortgage payment in the same way you supported Assad's crackdown on Syrians fed up with their Steve Mnuchin--a guy named Rami Makhlouf who might even end up visiting the Trump White House where he will be greeted as a guest of honor.

Posted by: Louis Proyect | Jan 21 2017 22:27 utc | 24


i wonder how II.1 relates to china. the ttp was billed as anti-china. nmb's link mentions tee-rex' interest in the south china sea. maybe there will be official tee-rump bluster to justify the mic gravy train, and to cover the plutocrat to plutocrat wheeling and dealing between the plutes of the usa and the prc.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 21 2017 22:28 utc | 25

@OJS | Jan 21, 2017 5:09:15 I found interesting links regarding this issue:

International Drug Holocaust : From the Opium War to 1997 and Beyond

10 Evil Crimes Of The British Empire

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 22:31 utc | 26

Anonymous gave a link to Trumpian foreign policy. Priority #1: war with terrorism, with ISIS mentioned by name. A good priority, ISIS seems to be on the way out anyway. Priority #2:

"Next, we will rebuild the American military. Our Navy has shrunk from more than 500 ships in 1991 to 275 in 2016. Our Air Force is roughly one third smaller than in 1991. President Trump is committed to reversing this trend, because he knows that our military dominance must be unquestioned."

Excellent. We need 225 more ships. I guess, the money would be best spend on speed boats. Recall that the finest American military operation in recent decades was the intervention in the island nation of Grenada, so we could pencil a few targets like that, and what is better than Tonga and Tuvalu. We could find some reason, say, cooperation with terrorism by letting those low-lives use websites with suffixes .to and .tu. Since those opponents are dispersed on numerous small islands, a huge fleet of very small ships would do well. Afterwards we could take care of the rest of letter T, like Trinidad and Togo. In Togo, the ability to operate in rivers is essential, another benefit from a huge liliputian fleet. And we could also consider Gambia (a narrow country along the banks of the eponymous Gambia river, recently in unrest).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 21 2017 22:32 utc | 27

Piotr, these ships will be needed for the battle over the Arctic's resources because you know the Americans and Canadians are planning on these big time.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 21 2017 22:40 utc | 28

RE: 2, nmb, above ...
The Chinese are not appeasing neoliberalism. They are neoliberals ... the OBOR is neoliberal at it's core. If anything, the Chinese are aiming to be the neoliberal top dogs ... and yes, that does mean that the US won't be.

RE: 3, 5,6 above ...
Let's face it, the reason the US and others took in so many anti-communist fascists is simple ... the US is a fascist state. Democracy, my ass! Democracy is a cover for a long ago established deep state that conflates combining government and business. The very definition of fascism. WWII was an attempt by a group of fascist states to reign in another fascist state while hoping to crush communism ... thus really staying out of the war until it was obvious that Russia was winning. Only then did the US, UK, et al get serious about defeating the Germans.

RE: 7 (bob) above:
The Ukraine being a basket case may be a reason to fear ex-pat, fascist Ukrainians all the more. If they could destroy their own country so effectively, imagine what they could do to others? More to the point, why do you think so many ex-Nazis were so influential in developing atomic weapons, rockets, et al? Was it only because of their scientific expertise? Or was it because they were 'fellow travelers' regarding fascism?

And, it rained ... not enough ... but so much better than not!

Posted by: rg the lg | Jan 21 2017 22:43 utc | 29

In the other thread someone made some crude remarks about Michelle Obama in the context of satanism, pedophilia and ritual sacrifice of the "elites". There is no need to slander Obamas, let's just share some knowledge about the topic. This is a fascinating read:

Capriccio For A Sausage Fest By Chef Alefantis – PizzaGate

Also interesting: Does A Satanic Cult Rule The World?

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 22:50 utc | 30

rg the lg @29 - "The Chinese are not appeasing neoliberalism. They are neoliberals ...".

Not really. Neoliberalism is totally incompatible with state-owned enterprises. Many of the biggest Chinese companies are state-owned. China is a mix of state-controlled big companies and private local and foreign investments. The Western neoliberal capital wants to take over the Chinese state, destroy any state ownership, transform China into a total free market, loot public property, like it did in the West. Which means it has to destroy the communist party somehow.

Posted by: nmb | Jan 21 2017 23:11 utc | 31

Addendum to my posts above:

1) Note the DynCorp name popping up in the PizzaGate context - this should not be a surprise, they are pure evil, actually beyond that...

2) Re "Opium Wars" - this of course is related to Trump's inaugural speech where he promised to fight against drugs and terrorism, both involving (i.e. drug trade finances the terrorism) the same cabal headquartered in The City of London (other prominent places being California - Laurel Canyon, Hollyweird, Bohemian Grove, LA, where really, really dark things have been taking place, e.g. the Zodiac mass murders, satanic ritual sacrifices by Polanski and friends , many more...), a satanic, pedophile networks of people (?) whose fortunes were built on the opium trade in 19th century, and other ways to exploit, abuse target societies (recently in Mexico where they control the "cartels", and in the ME where they control "ISIS"). Trump calls them "the establishment".

On a lighter note:

Did Bill Clinton eye up Donald Trump's wife at inauguration ceremony?

United States of Russia: Twitter explodes after Trump’s inauguration fireworks spell ‘USR'

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 23:38 utc | 32

@4, Ben

Thanks for the link. Could this be the death of the BRICS alliance?

A definite possibility, but before getting into the panic mode--it must be understood that the way real power of any nation is measured is very complex, and tri-polar global structure is emerging--PRC, USA and Russia. Other poles will emerge eventually but it has to be understood that BRICS, realistically, it is China and Russia. China is now in a precarious position since must wait for the US "offer" to Russia. It doesn't mean that the "offer" will be accepted but now a lot, and I mean--a lot, will depend on the dynamics of US and Russian bargaining. Russia doesn't trust US but let's not overestimate Sino-Russian relations either--it is all work in progress. A lot depends on correct assessment of US position from the point of view of "pass the point of no return" or not.

P.S. BRICS is not "alliance" and the only real alliance possible within this structure in Sino-Russian alliance, and I am going out on a limb here, which even if it materializes will not live for too long. Then India may factor in.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Jan 21 2017 23:59 utc | 33

Piotr, these ships will be needed for the battle over the Arctic's resources because you know the Americans and Canadians are planning on these big time.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 21, 2017 5:40:22 PM | 28


That would not be advisable. First, high Arctic is a submarine territory, and under-ice warfare is the most depressing type I can imagine. Contrast that with tropical islands. Any volunteers for Franz Josef Land occupation force (there is no population there and for very good reasons, even if one of the islands there has an enticing name Hooker Island). And who gets the spoils for shifting demarkation lines around the North Pole (US or Canada)? And how much can you shift them, and would you indeed get any gas or oil fields in the process?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 22 2017 0:03 utc | 34

@6 and @7. Not so much their opposition to the Soviet regime as much as saving their skins for overt collaboration with the Nazis during WWII. These were the scum of the earth who the Nazis were quick to fill the ranks of prison guards in the concentration camps.....

Posted by: georgeg | Jan 22 2017 0:38 utc | 35

Forgotten 'Real' history, as opposed to the 'bleached' kind ....

Re OUN, and associated sponsored Fascist ideologues and their families being 'transplanted', 'parachuted' into government jobs, given 'Security clearances' and their political affiliations & past crimes 'bleached', in direct contravention of explicit Presidential Executive Orders, starting early 1945, under Harry Truman, and ever since. Especially the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand & Canada. ie the Five-Eyes Supra-National Intelligence Agencies host nations - coincidence ???). Sponsored, deeply embedded fascist families to be used as future 'Agents-of-Influenece'(AOI) (see Aj-Jazeera 4 part investigation to understand the 'in person', on the ground' process re creating and implanted such AOI, for now and future generations ... Leaders(?)(AOI). See:

January 19, 2017, "The DNC Emails Were Leaked" Obama Takes Parting Shot At Brennan, Clapper, Clinton
- Post 10, and especially post 13, further relevant links to the real world effects of today given sponsorship of generations of ideologically indoctrinated children from birth within such 'transplanted' families, see :

Neo-Nazi & Fascist Marches
Will the EU, the OSCE and the Council of Europe Ask Latvia to Revoke the 1998 Declaration?

Concerned about neo-Nazis' rise in Baltic states and Ukraine

500 Neo-Nazis March in Lithuania Massacre City

NYT article & Declassified docu from the National Security Archives:

Nazis Were Given ‘Safe Haven’ in U.S., Report Says

WASHINGTON — A secret history of the United States government’s Nazi-hunting operation concludes that American intelligence officials created a “safe haven” in the United States for Nazis and their collaborators after World War II, and it details decades of clashes, often hidden, with other nations over war criminals here and abroad.

The 600-page report, which the Justice Department has tried to keep secret for four years, provides new evidence about more than two dozen of the most notorious Nazi cases of the last three decades.

- Should read 'Fascists & Nazi War criminals & associated Fascist ideological offshoots & entities Were given ...'. But that's the NYT, sanitizing such whenever possible, as 'The Paper of Record'. even so some useful links. Especially recommend this one of the full 600 page report, 'unredacted, as a result of the suit against the 'Justice department', run by the National Security Archives.

Further to above:

The CIA and Nazi War Criminals - National Security Archive

Washington D.C., February 4, 2005 - Today the National Security Archive posted the CIA's secret documentary history of the U.S government's relationship with General Reinhard Gehlen, the German army's intelligence chief for the Eastern Front during World War II. At the end of the war, Gehlen established a close relationship with the U.S. and successfully maintained his intelligence network (it ultimately became the West German BND) even though he employed numerous former Nazis and known war criminals. The use of Gehlen's group, according to the CIA history, Forging an Intelligence Partnership: CIA and the Origins of the BND, 1945-49, was a "double edged sword" that "boosted the Warsaw Pact's propaganda efforts" and "suffered devastating penetrations by the KGB." [See Volume 1: Introduction, p. xxix]

The declassified "SECRET RelGER" two-volume history was compiled by CIA historian Kevin Ruffner and presented in 1999 by CIA Deputy Director for Operations Jack Downing to the German intelligence service (Bundesnachrichtendienst) in remembrance of "the new and close ties" formed during post-war Germany to mark the fiftieth year of CIA-West German cooperation. This history was declassified in 2002 as a result of the work of The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group (IWG) and contains 97 key documents from various agencies...

Project Paperclip
Background of Project Paperclip Project Paperclip was a postwar and Cold War operation carried out by the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA).1 ...

Transcript - March 16, 1995
GUTTMAN: Well, a lot of them became U.S. citizens in Operation Paper Clip. May I respond? DR. FADEN: Yes. MR. GUTTMAN: We thought -- I don't think there's ...

Transcript - May 8, 1995
Operation Paperclip. After World ... Experiments Operation Plumbbob, contamination of personnel engaged in ...

... much of his team was brought here in a special programme called Paperclip, ... whole [Pienemuende] operation, which involved several tens of thousands of ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 1:20 utc | 36

Piotr Berman@27 - Tonga and Tuvalu?? Those sneaky bastards must DIE! ALL of them!

Wait.... those are real places?

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 22 2017 1:24 utc | 37

Anonymous 14 Laguerre 21

,A HREF="">On the 21st US were busy destroying well heads in Syria
That seems to be all the US is good for - destroying countries.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 1:26 utc | 38

While types like Canada's oxymoronic 'Freeland' family are the epitome of asshole facism, I reckon it is a bit rough to single out all Ukrainian post ww2 emigrees as being sociopathic Nazis. I know I've written about this before but when I was living in North Australia I got to know a Ukrainian bloke pretty well who had just about walked all the way to Australia, When he was 14 or 15 (he was sorta unsure of his exact age) Red Army recruiters came through his village and rounded up all the males under 50 and put them in the Army. It was 1941 and the Nazis had attacked. My friend got captured in the first battle he was in which was a disorganised retreat in the face of nazi attack. He spent a few months in a huge open air prison camp slowly starving to death before SS Ukrainian recruiters came through one of whom he knew since they grew up in the same village. The guy told him if he wanted to live he better join up and grab a nice Hugo Boss uniform because if he didn't he wouldn't make it through the winter.
The guy joined the SS and was made a guard at a concentration camp. Was he evil? He didn't appear to be when I knew him, although he didn't talk about the camp the way he talked shamefully about some of the stuff he did later.
By 1944 when it was obvious the nazis were losing, his german lieutenant suggested it was time to exit stage left, to move west as fast as possible since no one was gonna be greeted kindly by the Soviet troops who hadn't been captured and hadn't swapped sides, so they split to the allied sector during all the chaos following the collapse of the Nazi regime ending up in Marseilles still with his german friend running guns to north africa and cigarettes back to france. Not nearly as romantic as it sounds apparently. They got caught by French Customs and told that they could either go to jail for a very long time or take advantage of their extensive military experience and join the foreign legion. They picked the latter and ny friend always maintained of all the bad choices he made as a kid, that was the worst.
The foreign legion was providing the sharp end of France's foolish quest to keep Algeria a colony and very soon these guys found themselves betraying, torturing and killing the friends they had made among Algerian freedom fighters when they were in the 'cigarette' business. I guess for him that was the difference. When he was working in the concentration camp he was dealing with humans he didn't know, he could choose to believe what he was told about them being criminals, but he had known the Algerians and knew them as decent people trying to resist oppression now he was part of that oppression.
Eventually he got rotated to IndoChina, from what I can remember his german companion had either been killed or had deserted by then, anyway he found himself in an even worse situation since the job was the same , but there were a lot less resources despite the expectations of the generals being higher as there was even more contempt for Vietnamese soldiers from the french officer class than they had for Algerians -big mistake. When that turned to shit my friend deserted and walked into Thailand heading South west into Malaya until he got to Singapore. He was almost entirely dependent on the goodwill of local people who fed him until he got across to Singapore where he managed to work for a while to get passage on a boat to North Australia where he remained an illegal immigrant working in mines and construction for decades until my flatmate who worked for Australian Immigration sorted him out with citizenship.

I'm sure this guy (who I imagine is long dead now I lost contact with him in the mid-80's) did some really terrible stuff, but really he was just another victim of the warmongers, and I can still remember the tears he had when he told me some of the detail about Algeria. None of us are blameless but mostly when you're just another shit kicker, what you do is what you have to do to keep breathing.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 22 2017 1:34 utc | 39

To the 'chosen 400' at CIA central who sound rather appreciative.

Pence sounds annal.

Trump sounds Trump.

Music sounds terrible.

Bottom line:
1. Obama's covert ISIS programme is now simply dead men walking.
2. Iraqi oil should have been taken (and no doubt will be in due course) for economic reasons -- victor's reward.
3. MSM are in the crosshairs.
4. He loves you all -- as this 1st official stop signifies (rinse and repeat x 10).

"President Donald Trump Delivers Remarks at CIA Headquarters (1/21/2017)"

Posted by: x | Jan 22 2017 1:45 utc | 40

For the past four days days the US have been destroying oil wells and stills (or are they refineries) around Deir Ezzor (Dayr Az Zawr). I guess they expect the Syrian government to control this area soon?

Jan. 21, 2017
Inherent Resolve Strikes Target ISIL in Syria, Iraq

Jan. 20, 2017
Counter-ISIL Strikes Hit Terrorists in Syria, Iraq

Jan. 19, 2017
Military Strikes Continue Against ISIL Terrorists in Syria, Iraq

Jan. 18, 2017
U.S., Coalition Continue Strikes Against ISIL in Syria, Iraq

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 2:00 utc | 41

@ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 21, 2017 8:34:25 PM | 39


Have personally met similar, many vets have, in my case most often purely coincidentally when receiving hospital/medical treatment. Especially recall a tanker from the 'Lehr' Panzer Division (only 17 in 1944) who vividly recalled the horrors of Operation Cobra, and even more so the unit remnants tribulations during the escape from the Falaise Pocket. Spoke bitterly, in his 70's of being blinded/brainwashed by the Hitler Youth and other all-encompassing overwhelming indoctrination's, and the trauma/regret of the veritable theft of his youth & early life ... Once Adolf Galland, of Luftwaffe fame, socially, shortly before he passed away. A true intellectual among military men ... who described flailing against and within a dysfunctional/anarchic/internecine beuracracy to attempt to accomplish anything of value re operations ... also recounted how many of the 'Experten' in the final days simply largely abandoned their official responsibilities and returned to simply flying fighter planes, to hasten their, 'fate', against direct orders NOT, to do so.

Yet, the individuals, key mid level & some senior leaders/specialists/scientists, and their families that were specifically selected/targeted, sponsored, given official 'bleached' government dossiers with fabricated histories & 'fraudulent' political records, as well as 'security clearances' and parachuted into well paid senior government positions, is well documented, and another 'kettle of fish' altogether.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 2:06 utc | 42

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 9:00:47 PM | 41

That's what's called a 'key indicator'.

If we can't ever have control of it, due to new policies, re pulling out & turning against Al-Qaeda/ISIS, well, here's some Hubris for y'all (Syria/Assad) as we depart. Nothing new there. Yet if, they foresaw any prospect of success, that previously untouched Oil infrastructure would NOT now be being destroyed, as you describe.

Hence, a 'key indicator' re new 'Flash'/immediate initial policy directives, as of 20th ... in all probability ... and the professional (non-suborned/politicized) military would be lovin' it.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 2:14 utc | 43

Ya ... think, today was T rump's ....."six ways to Sunday" ... come to jebus meeting with said alphabet group meeting? Where he told them how much he was ..."behind them"? Cause they are "very, very special people". He even brought Pence ... to pay respects! He must have a both "public and private" position. Kinda like Killary!
But... but... "We are going to do great things". Cause we had "tremendous, tremendous success"
From his speech today..

"So I can only say that I am with you 1000%. And the reason you’re my first stop is that as you know, I have a running war with the media. They are among the most dishonest human beings on Earth. [laughter, applause]

And they sort of made it sound like I had a feud with the Intelligence Community. And I just want to let you know, the reason you’re the number 1 stop is exactly the opposite. Exactly. And they understand that too.

And I was explaining about the numbers. We did a thing yesterday, the speech, and everybody really liked the speech, you had to right? [applause]"!

In these times.... Holy Shit!

Posted by: Trixie from Dixie | Jan 22 2017 2:22 utc | 44

Women’s rights and $20m political donations to the Criminal Clinton Slush Fund (now closed for donations)?

Yeah, wear pink to that!

“Hidden Camera in Saudi Arabia SHOCKING”

“Muslims Migrant, Saudi Prince Humiliated By USA Cop”
“Published on Jan 12, 2017

A Saudi prince, the grandson of Prince Khalid Bin Sultan Al Saud, returns to his car,as a New York City police officer was writing him a ticket for illegal parking of his car, he attempted to drive away and was arrested. The police officer tell him, get the **** out of the car. The car gets driven away by the prince's American girlfriend, who is wearing hot pants that would get her stoned to death in Saudi Arabia.

A citizen of Saudi Arabia commented: I am Saudi and I say : Thank you very much to the brave Policemen who represented US and showed the power of the law no matter who you are, we miss that in Saudi Arabia, those insane princes think they own the land, the oil and the people here, but they are wrong. I am very happy today thanks.”

[ignore idiot intro etc]

Posted by: x | Jan 22 2017 2:45 utc | 45

@ Outraged | Jan 21, 2017 9:14:35 PM | 43

A couple of questions.
With an operation like Inherent Resolve, which is basically above board, would this continue as planned through a transition, until new orders are received changing the plan?

Also chain of command at the top end in the US. Is it CIC directly to the heads of the various commands or is it CIC, defence secretary, heads of commands?

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 2:52 utc | 46

Full text transcript:

President Trump Speaks at CIA Headquarters
By Quinta Jurecic
Saturday, January 21, 2017, 5:17 PM

The day after his inauguration, President Donald Trump addressed CIA employees at the Agency's headquarters. Video of his remarks is available below courtesy of The Washington Post, along with a transcript courtesy of CSPAN. We have also included notable responses to Trump's speech at the bottom of this post.


Although, they did treat me nicely on that speech yesterday [laughter].

I always call them “the dishonest media”, but they treated me nicely.


You know, the military, and the law-enforcement generally speaking, -- but, all of it -- but the military, gave us tremendous percentages of votes. We were unbelievably successful in the election with getting the vote of the military and probably almost everybody in this room voted for me, but I will not ask you to raise your hands if you did. [laughter]


We have to get rid of ISIS. We have to get rid of ISIS. We have no choice [applause]

Radical Islamic terrorism - and I said it yesterday - has to be eradicated. Just off the face of the Earth. This is evil. This is evil.


You’re going to go to it, and you’re going to do a phenomenal job. But we’re going to end it. It’s time. It’s time right now to end it.


The old expression: “to the victor belong the spoils” - you remember? You always used to say “keep the oil”. I wasn’t a fan of Iraq. I didn’t want to go into Iraq. But I will tell you. When we were in, we got out wrong.

And I always said: “In addition to that, keep the oil”.

Now I said it for economic reasons, but if you think about, Mike, if we kept the oil we would probably wouldn’t have ISIS, because that’s where they made their money in the first place. So we should have kept the oil.

But okay. [laughter] Maybe we’ll have another chance.


So I can only say that I am with you 1000%. And the reason you’re my first stop is that as you know, I have a running war with the media. They are among the most dishonest human beings on Earth. [laughter, applause]

And they sort of made it sound like I had a feud with the Intelligence Community. And I just want to let you know, the reason you’re the number 1 stop is exactly the opposite. Exactly. And they understand that too.


But this is how dishonest the media is: a big story. And the retraction was like -- was it a line? Or did they even bother putting it in?

So I only like to say that because I love honesty. I like honest reporting.


My, take is he's 'playing them', and sending a direct, polite reminder, of bared 'teeth' smile style, as to who is now CIC and Prez ... YMMV

Also includes WH Spokesman supplemental remarks/statement, and various 'comments' from the 'Globalist'(?) faction ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 2:53 utc | 47

@47 -- agreed: "sending a direct, polite reminder, of bared 'teeth' smile style".

1. "You know, the military, and the law-enforcement generally speaking, -- but, all of it -- but the military, gave us tremendous percentages of votes. We were unbelievably successful in the election with getting the vote of the military and probably almost everybody in this room voted for me, but I will not ask you to raise your hands if you did. [laughter]"

To the 400 chosen ones (who probably voted for him) -- they have their new orders and mandate for an internal purge. The Pentagon has his back and they (the CIA) had better come to heel pretty quick. And playing the lying MSM is a nono.

2. "So I can only say that I am with you 1000%." -- "you" being the team of 400 assembled for the internal coup.

3. "“to the victor belong the spoils” -- "Now I said it for economic reasons, but if you think about, Mike, if we kept the oil we would probably wouldn’t have ISIS, because that’s where they made their money in the first place. So we should have kept the oil. But okay. [laughter] Maybe we’ll have another chance."
Your new honey pot, ladies and gentlemen: (Saudi Arabia & Co) -- sic 'em Rex.

4. "I like honest reporting." -- i.e. it had better start going my way VERY soon! Expect Rupert Murdoch to move back to Adelaide sometime soon. In a wooden box if necessary.

Posted by: x | Jan 22 2017 3:11 utc | 48

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 9:52:08 PM | 46

Also chain of command at the top end in the US. Is it CIC directly to the heads of the various commands or is it CIC, defence secretary, heads of commands?

In my day it was the latter, with only extraordinary exceptions.

Starting with that alcohol addled sockpuppet, Bush the Younger, and then a complete corruption under Obama, the Prez could, if he chose to, literally issues a direct order to a theater Command, bypassing, Joint Chiefs, Secretary of Defense, Chain of Command, all of it.

Those processes exist for very valid reasons going back millenia re State & Military interaction/command/accountability/effectiveness/authority/funtionality, etc. Total corruption. It's one of the reasons many in the professional Military (non-politicized) loathed Obama.

Do you recall the disgusting footage of 'em, especially Killary, watching the Assault on the Bin Laden compound in Pakistan, via live real-time feed, as if it was all just a F*ckin' video game for laughs ! F*ckin' Disgraceful. Not talking commands there, literally as low as individual assault teams and even individual 'digitally/integrated' SF soldiers, and their live real-time, 'feeds'!

Bush the Younger and Obama, and Administration, thoroughly infested with neocon 'Chichenhawk' warmongers, IMV.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 3:11 utc | 49

20 Britain liked both because they liked getting stuff from foreign markets as well as having their own factory pumping out stuff. The empire was good in parts because there were some useful parts of the empire but also a lot of useless very expensive parts largely held to stop somebody else getting their hands on it.

Posted by: Heath | Jan 22 2017 3:35 utc | 50

@ Posted by: x | Jan 21, 2017 10:11:09 PM | 48

Thank you for expanding.

One regretfully often forgets to expand upon, what one considers as, obvious, ubiquitous insight/understanding, where that may well not be the case ...

Re 'get the oil', & Saudi Arabia & the recent precedent setting legislation breaching international & Domestic Law re Sovereign Immunity in order to pursue Court cases and at the very least, sanctions against KSA, House of Al-Saud, re activities related 9/11 (another story, for another time) see:

Thread: January 04, 2017, The Enemy Du Jour Is Always Hacking, post by Noirette at 60, then at 65 and follow on discussion & links, also:

January 03, 2017, U.S./UK Paid "White Helmets" Help Blocking Water To 5 Million Thirsty Syrians post/link at 52 & 56 & follow on discussion & links/references ... ;)


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 3:56 utc | 51

Anonymous @ 19:

Herewith the exposé of Chrystia Freeland's maternal grandfather Myhailo Chomiak as (currently) being repeated across several blogs and websites (including Russia Insider where the excerpt was nicked) from its original Dances With Bears source which seems to keep disappearing and reappearing.

"... The records now being opened by the Polish government in Warsaw reveal that Freeland’s maternal grandfather Michael (Mikhailo) Chomiak was a Nazi collaborator from the beginning to the end of the war. He was given a powerful post, money, home and car by the German Army in Crakow, then the capital of the German administration of the Galician region. His principal job was editor in chief and publisher of a newspaper the Nazis created. His printing plant and other assets had been stolen from a Jewish newspaper publisher, who was then sent to die in the Belzec concentration camp. During the German Army’s winning phase of the war, Chomiak celebrated in print the Wehrmacht’s “success” at killing thousands of US Army troops. As the German Army was forced into retreat by the Soviet counter-offensive, Chomiak was taken by the Germans to Vienna, where he continued to publish his Nazi propaganda, at the same time informing for the Germans on other Ukrainians. They included fellow Galician Stepan Bandera, whose racism against Russians Freeland has celebrated in print, and whom the current regime in Kiev has turned into a national hero.

Just before Vienna fell to the Soviet forces in March 1945, Chomiak evacuated with the German Army into Germany, ending up near Munich at Bad Worishofen. On September 2, 1946, when Freeland says her mother was born in a refugee camp, she was actually in a well-known spa resort for wealthy Bavarians. The US Army then controlled that part of Germany; they operated an Army hospital at Bad Worishofen and accommodated Chomiak at a spa hotel. US Army records have yet to reveal what the Americans learned about Chomiak’s war record, and how he was employed by US Army Intelligence, after he had switched from the Wehrmacht. It took Chomiak another two years before the government in Ottawa allowed the family to enter Canada.

The reason the Polish Government is now investigating Freeland is that Chomiak’s wartime record not only victimized Galician Jews, but also the Polish citizens of Crakow ..."

Chomiak must have been such a lovely fellow that not only did he print Nazi propaganda using equipment stolen from someone who was to die in a concentration camp but he even snitched on his own fellow Banderite thugs including the Banderite Messiah himself, Stepan Bandera. If Chomiak had been my grandfather, I'd have been tempted to lie about him too.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 22 2017 3:57 utc | 52

@outraged and all who are following events at Deir Ezzor

"Taking off from Qamishli Military Airport in northeastern Syria, the Russian Air Force began the onslaught by launching several airstrikes over the Sheikh Yassine, Al-Rusafa, Al-Jubeileh, Al-Rashidiyah, and Al-Hussiniyah districts of Deir Ezzor."

Times are changing it seems. If this report is accurate, that airport is in SDF/Kurd/US territory

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 4:26 utc | 53

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 11:26:56 PM | 53


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 4:32 utc | 54

Last I heard, Tuvalu has pretty much sunk under the ocean. Due to global swarming, or whatever.

I keep telling you: Get rapeseed greenhouses to grow oil from conserved water. No "carbon footprint". Rapeseed plants eat CO2. (Also cannabis.)

Posted by: blues | Jan 22 2017 4:40 utc | 55

You will have to add an extra smiley for this one outraged
"US-led air strikes wipe out 90 boats carrying ISIS members in Mosul"

Until now, as far as I know, US airforce or any other US force has done very little in the assault on Mosul.

Looks like ISIS is gonna be Trumped?

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 4:46 utc | 56

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 11:26:56 PM | 53

A year ago almost to the day ...

21 January 2016
A Russian base at Qamishli, Syria? (SST)

Am, OUT! must have a lie down ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 4:51 utc | 57

In compliance to b - META check ZeroHedge or YouTube for full vid... where I stole it (plagiarize)

In Speech to a the CIA, Trump Offers to Build Them a Room Without Columns: ‘Do You Understand That?’

At the end of Trump's speech to a room filled with 400 employees of the CIA, Trump said, rather cryptically, that maybe he'd build them a bigger room 'by someone who knows how to build and we won't have columns, do you understand that?'

For those of you who are fucking retards and haven't the slightest clue what that could mean, I suggest you read up on the fifth column theories -- which are essentially the existence of a shadow government.

Posted by: OJS | Jan 22 2017 5:27 utc | 58

debsisdead #39

Your Ukrainian friend sounds like a survivor of the Galizien SS division. Your story does not seem plausible as you told it. The Galizien SS division, made up of Ukrainians, had about 12,000 troops and engaged the Red Army around the town of Brody. This division was crushed within a week with the loss of about 9000 killed or captured. 3,500 escaped and were reconfigured into anther Nazi fighting unit. The survivors were not really fit for further combat and were sent to southern France and Northern Germany for routine occupation duty. They eventually surrendered to US forces. However, the US had use for them at this point. They were redefined from Nazi SS troops into anti-communist freedom fighters. This redefinition allowed them free passage to the United States or Canada. Most settled in the Great Lakes region on both sides of the border.

That population of surviving members of the Galizien SS division who migrated to North America gave rise to politically active second and third generation US citizen-Ukrainian activists. We have read about some of them here at moon with Helmers essay and the Chaluba sisters. This is not something these guys brag about but the genesis of their movement began in Ukraine between 1941 and 1944. I wonder how many of them were involved in Babi Yar? But without doubt they came through through Galizien SS division.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jan 22 2017 5:37 utc | 59

groan correction. I misspoke: Not' France and Northern Germany' rather France and Northern Italy.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jan 22 2017 5:39 utc | 60

Outraged | Jan 21, 2017 11:51:00 PM | 57 "Am, OUT! must have a lie down ..."

No time for a nana nap, everything is happening :)

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 5:53 utc | 61


OMgoodness, that's a stretch. If only he were that intelligent and not in bed with Zionists. However, every time Trump offends the CIA either deliberately or unintentionally with his angel gets its wings. Sadly however he was only pandering to them; when his clumsy ego got the best of him; nothing more to see.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 22 2017 6:39 utc | 62

headline now at Russia Insider "The Blame Game Begins: Obama Administration Says Syrian Rebels Encouraged US to 'Work with' Al Qaeda'"

Posted by: mischi | Jan 22 2017 6:43 utc | 63

I'm from Ontario and I care a lot about Trump. I wonder if he's gonna gut the auto industry here. He already did in Mexico. It's a big part of our economy that has cohabited with US production for many years and both countries have done well out of the deal.

I don't care much for Freeland and I don't care if her grandparents were Nazis. She's fuck all as far as a negotiator and the Yanks will eat her for breakfast if Nafta comes open. Trudeau is not smart enough to deal with the new reality either.

Trump made a total cunt out of himself on his first day in office. Anybody who listened to his speech at the CIA will know that he's not ready for prime time. His biggest concern was that the press may have fudged the attendance numbers for his swearing in. If i were him I'd leave yesterday entirely alone after a concert like that. Who were those fucking people?

Anyhow, for the dreamers who imagine that Trump will immediately put all the members of the former government in jail and proceed to reach a beautiful equilibrium with Putin to squash the deep state, have at it you idiots. Trump is a very dangerous guy mostly because he's not that bright and has an ego as fragile as Irish china.

Forget about what Obama really meant when he said "leaked" instead of "hacked". Forget about a lot of the goofy shit you beat into the ground. We have a man-child at the reins. He does not have a plan to make things better for making things better for jerk-offs like you and me. He has no plan at all. You can't make honey out of dog shit.

Posted by: peter | Jan 22 2017 7:02 utc | 64

Circe | Jan 22, 2017 1:39:56 AM | 62

IS Trump Pro Zionist or Pro Jewish? The answer will be in his actions. The actions at this early date is the destruction of headchopper terrorist organisations which are no threat to Zionists. Rather those headchopper organisations are an asset to Zionists as they only attack countries that may be a threat to the Zionists. No headchopper attacks on Israel. To the contrary, Israel treat wounded headchoppers in their hospitals.
You seem to base your thinking on ideology rather than facts.
You seem to have no understanding of diplomacy, which is similar at times to guerilla warfare.
Putin, moving against or rather blocking the US establishment, Trump, moving against the US establishment. Small force against a large force. (though Russia has the ability to annihilate the US)
I doubt Trump will be perfect for everyone, myself included, but you have an agenda Circe, a mind set which blinds you to what is currently occuring.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 7:26 utc | 65

Trump referring to media:

“They made it sound like I had a feud with the intelligence agencies. It is exactly the opposite,” Trump said, adding: “I love you, I respect you, there is nobody I respect more.”

But in his first press conference as President-elect he called them a disgrace and compared what they did leaking the report on him to Nazi Germany.

And he sent out this tweet:

And before that he was dissing their assessment that Russia hacked DNC. [that's okay; I didn't buy it either!]

So then, he was feuding with the CIA; but blamed the media for making it sound that way instead to get the egg off his face.

Gee I wonder what Love and Respect are code for @58?

I love you, I respect you, there is nobody I respect more.

Really, Donald? Noooobody, you love and respect more...uh, how about...your wife?

What a bullshitter he is...Lol!

Posted by: Circe | Jan 22 2017 7:28 utc | 66

I really meant he wanted to save face in his speech to CIA employees so he falsely blamed the media for
making is sound like he had a feud with them. Right. Because calling them a disgrace and behaving like Nazi Germany doesn't sound like you're feuding with them.

That was a low blow and cowardly. You know I don't like the mainstream, but Trump sure is making them look good next to his own deception.

@65 You really had to go to go far for that excuse to distance Trump from Zionists? Unfortunately, Kushner will pass on Zionist strategic thinking to his father-in-law who will then get why AQ and ISIS benefit Zionism.

But before that there are all these other reasons why he's beyond pro-Zionist; more like a rabid Zionist supporter.:

1. Promised to move U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem calling it eternal capital of the Jewish state.

2. Promised to veto 100% of all U.N. Resolutions

3. Appointment of zealot illegal settlement supporter, Friedman, Ambassador to Israel

4. Accepts $125 million contribution from uber-Zionist Sheldon Adelson

5. Tries to sabotage U.N. Resolution condemning illegal settlements by getting al-Sisi to drop it

5. Gives Adelson and wife unprecedented, prominent seating on Inaugural dais

6. Invites heads of illegal settlement movements to inauguration activities.

I think this proof is sufficient.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 22 2017 7:56 utc | 67

Trump to welcome British PM in 1st meeting with foreign leader,
Will this set the bar for Trump on foreign policies?

Posted by: Anonmymous | Jan 22 2017 7:57 utc | 68

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22, 2017 12:53:14 AM | 61 & 65

So, what we've got here is confirmation the Evil Russkies did a formal infrastructure assessment of the facilities at the unused Qamishli airbase a year ago. That means they fully assessed it's capabilities, and considered the requirements for temporary and sustained operation as well as temporary or permanent security and protection of the facilities and potential flight operations. Gets filed away in the Intelligence/Infrastructures files for Syria, for future reference, if required.

Recall the temporary airstrikes launched with such fanfare from the Iranian base some time ago ?

Operational Scenario: Deir-Ezzor. New administration. WEF 20th a 'Flash'/Immediate message is sent to RF advising change in policy re ISIS. RF liaison advice's theater command they will be executing a standby operation from Qamishli to assist Deir-Ezzor. Acknowledged & Confirmed.

RF flies in advance security party/force to secure/clear facilities, establish and then expands and mans an inner and outer secure perimeter at least 8Km+ radius from airfield, establishes surveillance/listening posts, checkpoints/control points on approaches to base, establishes a Ready Reaction Force.

Ultra-Heavy transport aircraft land once above completed. Unload RF AF aircrew & maintenance & support elements, HQ elements additional security force elements, heavy equipment/materiel/Aircraft ordnance/deployed force logistical supplies. TU22's(?) land with minimal required fuel +reserve onboard, no armaments/ordnance. This means less stress/fatigue for the aircaft's long term usable service life, less maintenance/operating cost.

Strike aircraft are loaded with only sufficient fuel for return short haul (NE Syria to targets & return) flight to perform surprise airstrikes on ISIS ... loaded for 'Bear' ... with absolute MAXIMUM possible ordnance payload onboard given meteorological conditions.

US SF, do NOT advise ISIS of incoming airstrikes. ISIS have no means to independently detect inbound airstrikes until it's too late to make a difference. Result: Big, BadaBoom!

Strike aircraft return in short order, concurrently serviced, repaired, re-armed, partially refueled, and promptly take-off and do it again. Rinse & repeat. Swap out aircrews with ready, fresh, standby/substitute crews. Rinse & repeat.

Result: Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Big, BadaBoom! interval Big, BadaBoom! interval Big, BadaBoom! ;)

If objective is achieved or facility and deployed elements come under significant identified potential threat or unacceptable risk. Follow the process above in reverse, pack-up and Bug-out. As if it never happened ... :)

@ Posted by: peter | Jan 22, 2017 2:02:12 AM | 64

Jeebus wept.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 8:14 utc | 69

@mischi | Jan 22, 2017 1:43:52 This is beyond ridiculous.

@ToivoS | Jan 22, 2017 12:37:18 Many stories like this:

Commander in Nazi SS-led unit linked to atrocities 'found living in Minnesota’ - Telegraph [2013]

Michael Karkoc, 94, was a founding member of the Ukrainian Self Defence Legion and later served as an officer in the Galician volunteer division of the Waffen SS, according to the Associated Press.

The alleged secret past of the retired carpenter and stalwart of the exiled Ukrainian community was exposed after a tip from a retired London pharmacologist who researches Nazi war crimes.

Stephen Ankier was digging into details of SS Galician Division members who moved to Britain when he came across an address for Mr Karkoc in Minneapolis and contacted the US news agency.

The Ukrainian unit commanded by Mr Karkoc has been repeatedly accused of massacring civilians, including burning down villages filled with women and children, in graphic eyewitness accounts of survivors and other men in his unit.
Related Articles

The records do not show that Mr Karkoc had a direct hand in war crimes but indicate he was at the scene of atrocities it is claimed. The SS’s files allegedly record his involvement in the suppression of a Polish rebellion in the 1944 Warsaw Uprising.

Poland’s National Remembrance Institute said that its prosecutors would investigate Mr Karkoc’s alleged wartime role and provide “every possible assistance” to the US justice system.

Members of the Galician Division and his Ukrainian unit were barred from entering the US after the war. But records obtained by a Freedom of Information Act request indicate that Mr Karkoc told US officials in 1949 that had done no military service.

The US has deported dozens of suspected Nazi war criminals for lying in their immigration papers.

Mr Karkoc now lives in a modest house in Minneapolis in a neighbourhood with a large Ukrainian population.

Asked by the AP about his wartime activities, he responded: “I don’t think I can explain.” Calls by The Daily Telegraph to his home went unanswered.

Will the photos reveal the truth? Polish investigators to use new technique to confirm the identity of alleged Ukrainian war criminal

Ukrainian insurgent "army"-crimes and collaboration

Genocide Commited By Ukrainian Nationalists

Yard reopens inquiry into former Nazi soldiers still alive in Britain

Polish civilians murdered by German-SS-troops in Warsaw Uprising Warsaw August 1944

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 22 2017 8:34 utc | 70

86 Outraged

Sounds good:)

"loaded for 'Bear'"... or bear loaded for ISIS... :)

Much appreciate the finer details of the operation. I tend to look at the shapes of the pieces of the puzzle and where they fit, rather than the image on the shapes, as the images can be deceiving.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 8:38 utc | 71


Thanks for your reply on Freeland,
have Freeland ever talked about this or is the MSM covering it up as usual in Canada?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 8:49 utc | 72

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22, 2017 3:38:16 AM | 71

We always say loaded for 'Bear', ie heavily armed and equipped. The Soviets were always and the RF even today were/are often referred to as the Bear ... so it works both ways, simultaneously ...

It's always a good idea, to periodically pause, re-examine all available data/indicators, and ask, 'So what does ALL this mean ?'. Re-assess and then move on, seeking to confirm/deny assessment made.

This is what becomes an instinctive, muscle memory, process with regard to Intelligence analysis, as well as a very similar process re Command/Operations Planning/Decisions ... typically commonly referred to as the Intelligence Cycle and the (Command/Operations) Decision Cycle, respectively.

This means less stress/fatigue for the aircaft's long term usable service life, less maintenance/operating cost.

Further to the above, the other crucial benefit is the active aircrew lands dramatically less stressed and fatigued, as a result of virtually flying on auto-pilot (cruise control) until approaching Syria airspace. This then means you can squeeze more sorties out of the original crew before having to swap 'em out with standby/hot replacements.

Another not so obvious benefit for the RF and RF AF is they maximize operational/combat experience under high intensity, though short duration activity. Hence all involved, from Spetznaz sniper, to pilot, to aircraft refueler, become dramatically more competent and experienced in a shortest possible time at least cost/risk.

Exactly what the Rf AF needs in order for them to then use said personnel as a cadre/core component to expand and extend personnel numbers as more aircraft come into production and online/commissioned. Experienced, highly proficient personnel, capable of these Force projection Operations, is one of RFs critical Strategic/Operational weaknesses.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 9:15 utc | 73

If you want to know who are the Antifa thugs look up the pic of the one who attacked a Trump supporter Richard Spencer. Antifa appears to be largely Jewish. In December they came from Germany and assaulted violently Polish MPs before the parliament building in Warsaw. Over last 10 years large numbers of Israelis flooded Germany especially the Berlin area as immigrants.

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 22 2017 9:43 utc | 74

@ToivoS#59 When I first met the guy there were elements of his story that I doubted but the foreign legion part is certainly true as I witnessed a fight (well more of a wrassle since they were pretty unfit late 50's) between the guy and another ex-legionnaire who didn't desert. My flatmate also checked him out as much as possible because even back then the possibility of him being a wanted war criminal was considered as much as we liked the guy the truth had to be uncovered before he was made an Australian. He had worked in a camp, although no one had any information good or bad about much beyond that, the USSR wasn't particularly helpful but they weren't burning up to send him to Siberia or whatever either. So his major parts were definitely true and like I said the actual shooting stuff in WW2 he was involved was when he was in the Soviet Army, I dunno why you insist he had to be in the Galizien SS division, I'm certain that not every Ukrainian who ended up with the nazis were confined to one unit who all fought in the same action.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 22 2017 9:45 utc | 75

One more thing - did you notice that Trump contrary to all those leaders, celebrities and wannabes "fighting for freedom and democracy" did not show that ominous judeo-masonic V sign with his fingers ? It's always shown whether it's a color revolution, "rebels" in MENA, Winstobn Churchil, Killary, Bushes, Solidarity in Poland, "refugees" in the EU. etc...

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 22 2017 10:21 utc | 76

This documentary on Trump is quite a watch to understand where the World is heading. It is going to be a real fun.

Posted by: laserlurk | Jan 22 2017 10:33 utc | 77

Followup to 73

Al-Masdar had a brief vague report ~4 days ago saying Russian technicians were working at(preparing) the Al-Qamishli Military Airport. Also unsubstantiated report of RF/SAA Fighters(?) landing there recently.

The Runway is 747 capable so could certainly handle heavy transport and heavy strike aircraft.

The other issue is that the SAA & RF must be having improved relations with the Kurds because the area is under their de facto control. It's also literally adjacent to the Syria/Turkey border.

Google maps reference: zoom in out and around.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 10:36 utc | 78

Followup to 73

Al-Masdar had a brief vague report ~4 days ago saying Russian technicians were working at(preparing) the Al-Qamishli Military Airport. Also unsubstantiated report of RF/SAA Fighters(?) landing there recently.

The Runway is 747 capable so could certainly handle heavy transport and heavy strike aircraft.

The other issue is that the SAA & RF must be having improved relations with the Kurds because the area is under their de facto control. It's also literally adjacent to the Syria/Turkey border.

Google maps reference: zoom in out and around.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 10:36 utc | 79

Posted by: peter | Jan 22, 2017 2:02:12 AM | 64

Yep, that is why Michigan voted for him.

It is obvious how he will operate when you read up on the guy. What did he do when he was bankrupt but too big to fail for the banks? He played golf with the important people and let others do the work.

He just changed US foreign policy by inaugural address

We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world -- but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first. We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to follow. We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones -- and unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the Earth.

It is fun to watch Germany's Merkel stick to the old talking point "alliances based on shared values"

Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 10:54 utc | 80

add to 80

of course his family and friends will profit "big league" from the planned infrastructure projects.

Posted by: Kenny | Jan 22, 2017 6:07:32 AM | 81

I guess you have to start your history of the "mess" with the progroms in Tsarist Russia.

But otherwise, you are correct, choices could be very limited for young men in Second World War Ukraine, and the side you ended up on more or less accidental.

Chrystia Freeland has a right to her opinion on the Ukrainian "mess", however for Canada to choose someone who has a family interest in the affairs of another country as foreign minister is problematic to say the least.

Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 11:29 utc | 81

@74 As a leading American Nazi Spencer was a legitimate target for Anti fascist action. This blog tends to applaud militant anti fascism in Donetsk, but balk at it in their own country.

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Jan 22 2017 11:29 utc | 82

Hate and scaremongering goes on, now Germany barks:

RT@ "Trump taking office spells end to world order of 20th century – German FM Steinmeier "

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 11:42 utc | 83

@Paul Cockshott

The answer to that is that Moon of Alabama doesn't explicitly have anti-fascist tendencies or socialist politics. It's agreeable among some Western leftists because of its anti-imperialist leanings, but without a radical, class-based analysis and material understanding of imperialism, it will just end in liberal conclusions and propose liberal solutions. The typical MoA reader doesn't see Trump as a symptom of fascism or capitalism in decay, because that reader has a dated European idea of fascism and won't notice other ways it could appear.

I've read through some of your Towards a New Socialism book, by the way. I learned a a bit from it. It's nice to see other socialists post in here from time to time.

Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 11:54 utc | 84

Words like fascism, imperialism, democracy, leftists, nazi, freedom, zionist, liberal and so on arte dirty words with no meaning at all.

Just use words with a meaning.
Look at the inaugural address.

Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 22 2017 12:04 utc | 85

Paul Cockshott

Nonsense claim about MoA you make, besides regardless if someone is "nazi" or not, are you really proposing using violence against other people just because of their views? Then, I dont think you have much in common with anyone here tbh.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 12:06 utc | 86

Recent talk has reminded me. Has Trump said anything about closing overseas military bases? I think it's logical to think that a serious non-interventionist policy would foremost imply a closure of overseas bases.

Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 12:08 utc | 87

@86 those words all have meaning but vary, depending on what your analysis is. A "liberal" understanding of those words can be summed as:

fascism = European 1930s fascism (or its visible descendants) and anything that violates the classical liberal status quo. "Anti-fascists attacking a Nazi? Fascism!" (which is a statement I hear repeatedly from here and on reddit)

imperialism = in the liberal sense probably just invasions of foreign countries. in Marxist sense a central marker of imperialism is export of finance capital.

democracy in liberal sense = liberal democracies (heh)

freedom = freedom to follow the dictates of the United States

Not only definitions, but analytical framework is also important to glean meaning from terms.

Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 12:20 utc | 88

@ Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22, 2017 6:42:02 AM | 84

The 'Globalists'(?) in power in other countries, especially our first & second tier vassal States, haven't got the memo yet ?

He just changed US foreign policy by inaugural address

We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world -- but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first. We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to follow. We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones -- and unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the Earth.

Predominantly the leaders of our vassal states are died in the wool, Globalist(?)/Neocons of one shade or another. Especially UK, Canada, New Zealand & Australia. Five-Eyes members all.

They've all also progressively adopted more and more draconian and authoritarian laws, in sympathy with our Patriot Act, Surveillance Laws and all that followed, all based on the largely, 'mythical', the overblown threat of Islamic Terrorism, which whilst real, has never been the imminent danger propagandized. Whilst bizarrely conspiring to do pretty much nothing about it in Syria, nor Iraq, in fact quite the opposite, supporting and enabling it, producing propaganda on behalf of 'Moderate Head-Choppers' ... a dissonant reality we live in ...

In reality citizens of the US or the above countries, including Germany have a greater statistical chance of being hit and dying of a lightning strike than any terrorist incident, no matter how the MSM distorts the reality. Maybe we should declare a new war, a Global 'War on Lightning Strikes'.

Again, reviewing MSM stories worldwide, it's just ravenous rubbish, and as if most of it is produced from a single source, remarkable, that.

Trump Addresses The CIA, Guess What He Didn't Talk About

Women's marches: More than one million protesters vow to resist President Trump
Washington Post

At CIA, Trump blames media for intel community fallout
The Peninsula Qatar

Ex-intel chief: Trump's relationship with intel community 'dismaying'
The Hill

Trending:Ex-CIA chief Brennan bashes Trump over speech during CIA visit

Former CIA director John Brennan blasts Donald Trump saying 'he should be ashamed of himself'
Yahoo News UK

Former CIA chief John Brennan says Donald Trump should 'be ashamed'
Economic Times

Trump battles media over inauguration crowd size
Radio New Zealand

Ex-CIA chief Brennan labels Trump 'despicable'
Daily Mail UK

The other interesting thing is there were supposedly 302 articles covering the above search, yet, when one checks on all articles, with duplicates removed, there are in fact only twenty unique 'articles', along the lines of the above, regardless of the publisher/nation.

@ Posted by: Kenny | Jan 22, 2017 6:07:32 AM | 81

That's all very odd, especially your last. Because, the only one calling you those list of 'names'/'labels', 4 of 5 of them in fact, that you proclaim, is strangely, yourself, repeatedly, within your very own posts, 4 posts in a row now ... how very odd indeed ... are you some form of odd digital/social media masochist to keep calling yourself such ?

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 12:27 utc | 89

It's also useful to look at whether your framework of discussion clarifies, or obscures understanding of some system. Unjust systems of power will resist attempts to challenge their authority, and hence seek to obscure understanding of their workings, through their own legitimating discourse. In the United States, "imperialism" is something Russia does (which may or may not be true). But the United States -- as a rule -- doesn't practice imperialism.

If you find your discourse has a lot of exceptions for scenarios like that, chances are that it serves power rather than questions it.

Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 12:34 utc | 90

Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 22, 2017 7:12:46 AM | 89

Pantaraxia, you are rewriting history. As far as I remember Putin blamed Lenin's "national identity" politics for the empire's problems. Stalinism is a different matter, but even then there was no official language of the Soviet Union.

From Wikipedia "The new Soviet Constitution adopted in 1936, however, stipulated that teaching in schools should be conducted in native languages."

Anyway, China now is taking over Ukraine

Poroshenko told Xi that Ukraine welcomed Chinese investment and there was great potential for cooperation in areas like logistics, ports, steel and agriculture, China's foreign ministry added.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22, 2017 6:42:02 AM | 84

Steinmeier is stating the obvious.

Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 12:43 utc | 91

@ somebody #80

"It is fun to watch Germany's Merkel stick to the old talking point "alliances based on shared values" "

I wonder if Erich Höneker said anything similar in his last months in office.

Posted by: Lysander | Jan 22 2017 12:44 utc | 92

somebody 93

How is he stating the obvious? Trump hasnt even taken power yet? Steinmeier is just warmongering.
Steinmeier have no idea what kind of way Trump/US will take so why this hysteria by him and other globalists? Makes no sense IMO.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 12:51 utc | 93

@93 somebody
Suggest you see the following from Wikipedia:

Russification of Ukraine

The Russification of Ukraine was a body of laws, decrees, and other actions undertaken … and later Soviet authorities to strengthen Russian national, political and linguistic positions in Ukraine.


The times of restructuring of farming and the introduction of industrialization brought about a wide campaign against "nationalist deviation," which in Ukraine translated into the end of "korenization" policy and an assault on the political and cultural elite. The first wave of purges between 1929 and 1934 …

… and purged Ukrainian political leadership was largely replaced by the cadre sent from Russia that was also largely "rotated" by Stalin's purges.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 22 2017 13:18 utc | 94

re 79

The other issue is that the SAA & RF must be having improved relations with the Kurds because the area is under their de facto control. It's also literally adjacent to the Syria/Turkey border.
It isn't. It's on the other side of Qamishli from the border.

There is still a Syrian garrison in part of Qamishli, I think. But of course the Syrian Kurds have to be OK with it. What is very striking is the decline of US influence there. It's only a couple of months ago that the US was pushing the Kurds into attacking the Syrian army garrison there. That worked well, didn't it? Now the Kurds are allying with the other side. No doubt the Kurds have worked out that it isn't in their interests to attack Asad, and have switched sides. Is this an isolated move, or does it signify a more general change of Kurdish policy.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 22 2017 13:24 utc | 95

@ Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 22, 2017 8:24:03 AM | 97

Yes, was a rushed comment, my briefer posts usually are. Should have been more precise, was referring more broadly to the region/area.

Couldn't pin anything specific down when searching, but many 'inferences' under Syrian local forces control, re Qamishli.

Personally believed all the supposed 'pushing' talk coming from US sources, was largely wishful thinking, didn't see a lot of evidence that the Kurds wanted any part of that activity. Weren't they supposed to have recovered Raqqah by now for the US ? ;)

Badly burnt/betrayed one too many times, & taken for patsies, methinks.

Reminds me of the Montangards in III(?) Corps central highlands regions in Sth Vietnam ... they still pay a very heavy price as a cultural/tribal grouping, even today. :(

There do seem to be indications, nothing consistently definite that there is a sustained warming re Kurds & Syria/Assad, though there are stronger re a cooling with the US/Empire. IIRC, after all wasn't RF demanding on behalf of Syria that the Kurds must have a seat at any table re cessation of hostilities in Syria as a whole, as a participating party ? Had thought that was a notable & significant bump upwards re status/recognition ... re a change of policy.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 13:42 utc | 96

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22, 2017 7:51:49 AM | 95

As I understood Steinmeier all he said is the future is wide open.

Trump has stated foreign policy via inauguration. Do you suggest his administration will work against him?

Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 13:44 utc | 97

Did you like the Chulov piece 650-mile trench stakes out claim for bigger Kurdish territory in Iraq? The guy is so disgusting that he writes approvingly of what is in effect an aggression and a land-grab. They've included a lot of land which is not Kurdish (The Kurdish idea of what is Kurdish is if there is a couple of Kurds in a region's population. Did you know Kyrgyzstan is part of Kurdistan, because Stalin exiled a few Kurds there from Armenia?).

Actually the issue is a bit more complicated than that. Such a ditch and berm is a movement control measure, forcing people to pass through check-points. Introduced by the US army in Iraq in 2004. The US constructed ones had an effective life for controlling movement of around 24 hours, as people quickly found ways through. More likely intended to be a symbolic taking of territory. But I doubt that that will work either. The Peshmerga are overstretched and underpaid. When the US stops paying them (for the attack on Mosul), they will relapse into unpaid inertia, KRG being bankrupt.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 22 2017 13:48 utc | 98

@82 somebody
I guess you have to start your history of the "mess" with the progroms in Tsarist Russia.

Actually a more relevant start would be the chain of causality leading to the pogroms, as in understanding the historical context of the antipathy between slavs and jews. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his book ‘200 Years Together’ provides a glimpse:


This process accelerated when a large part of Ukraine came directly under Poland in the Union of Lublin, 1569. The main population consisted of orthodox peasants, who for a long time had had special rights and were free of tolls. Now began an intensive colonization of the Ukraine by the polish Szlachta (Polish nobility) with conjoint action by the jews. “The Cossacks were forced into immobility, and obligated to perform drudgery and pay taxes… The Catholic lords burdened the orthodox peasants with various taxes and service duties, and in this exploitation the jews also partly played a sad role.” They leased from the lords the “propination,” i.e. the right to distil vodka and sell it, as well as other trades “The jewish leasers, who represented the Polish lord, received – of course only to a certain degree – the power that the landholder had over the peasants; and since the jewish leasers… strove to wring from the peasants a maximum profit, the rage of the peasants rose not only against the Catholic landlords but also against the jewish leasers…

The jews were lured in by the natural riches of the Ukraine and by polish magnates that were colonizing the land, and thus assumed an important economic role. Since they served the interests of the landlords and the regime… the jews brought on themselves the hatred of the residents.” N. I. Kostomarov adds that the jews leased not only various branches of the privileged industries but even the orthodox churches, gaining the right to levy a fee for baptisms.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 22 2017 13:50 utc | 99


Steinmeier, as far as the english translation is correct, didnt say it was "open", he said the world order now was broken. Period. But what has been broken? Steinmeier simply do not know anything about what road US will take, so why this scaremongering?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 13:53 utc | 100

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