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January 21, 2017
Open Thread 2017-03
News & views …
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Trump team publish first statement on Trump’s foreign policy: Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 18:06 utc | 1 for the canuck readers, john helmer has some scathing info out on chrystia freeland.. Posted by: james | Jan 21 2017 18:45 utc | 3 @ 2: Thanks for the link. Could this be the death of the BRICS alliance? Time will tell. Posted by: ben | Jan 21 2017 19:13 utc | 4 @2 In 19th century, UK was the leading economic power, the ultra-liberal one pushing for free trade and globalization because it benefited from this. Funnily, US had a very protectionist policy with punishing tariffs. In 20th century, US was the leading economic power, the one pushing for free-trade and globalization. In both cases/centuries, the economic powerhouse relied at times on military force and coups to break countries open and to regime-change, so that more countries would go the free-trade laissez-faire market way. Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 21 2017 19:42 utc | 5 @3 : thanks for that link. Posted by: jayc | Jan 21 2017 19:43 utc | 6 @6 Posted by: Bob | Jan 21 2017 20:03 utc | 7 Why are liberals so perverse? Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 21:18 utc | 8 re Bob 7 Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 21 2017 21:21 utc | 9 DJT first official visit a circle-jerk at Langley CIA. Posted by: TheRealDonald | Jan 21 2017 21:30 utc | 10 Posted by: nmb | Jan 21, 2017 1:09:42 PM | 2 Posted by: somebody | Jan 21 2017 21:34 utc | 11 ben @4 – Thanks. True, time will tell, but let’s hope that it won’t happen. BRICS are the only force right now that could decelerate the brutal onslaught of the global neoliberal authoritarianism. So what of the Middle East? Trump hasn’t appointed most of his team yet. Are US forces on hold, or continuing the old policy, while waiting for new instructions? Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 21 2017 21:45 utc | 13 Laguerre Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 21:46 utc | 14 somebody @11 – True, but it doesn’t mean that China wants to adopt fully the neoliberal free market fundamentalism. I think the Chinese leadership tries to find a balance between free market and some kind of ‘silent’ protectionism (a hard balance indeed). Posted by: ben | Jan 21, 2017 2:13:21 PM | 4 Posted by: somebody | Jan 21 2017 21:54 utc | 16 About Canada’s Freeland. There are two stories at Russia insider about her. One talks about how she wants Justin Trudeau’s job (and, btw, just how stupid people think he is) and how her family was a bunch of Nazis. I don’t want to post a link in case I get accused or promoting other sites. Posted by: mischi | Jan 21 2017 21:57 utc | 17 Canada’s politicians have a long history of pandering to some groups in order to win votes – the Tamil tigers were not declared a terrorist organization in Canada for quite a long time, and now the Liberals are huffing and puffing against Russia to garner the large Ukrainian community vote out West where they need it most. Posted by: mischi | Jan 21 2017 21:59 utc | 18 Is it correct that Freeland grandparents were involved with nazis in Ukraine? Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 21 2017 22:07 utc | 19 @CluelessJoe | Jan 21, 2017 2:42:01 PM | 5 Posted by: OJS | Jan 21 2017 22:09 utc | 20 re anonymous 14 Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 21 2017 22:16 utc | 21 from @1 anonymous’ link …
I.1 and I.4.b seem to presage the russian ‘thaw’ and cooperation in syria I.4.b seems to presage closer, even more disastrous ties to israel Posted by: jfl | Jan 21 2017 22:17 utc | 22 1) re UkroNazi diaspora in Canada – good read on the topic: Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 22:25 utc | 23 It looks like that colored revolution you have been warning about has already started: Posted by: Louis Proyect | Jan 21 2017 22:27 utc | 24 @22 Posted by: jfl | Jan 21 2017 22:28 utc | 25 @OJS | Jan 21, 2017 5:09:15 I found interesting links regarding this issue: Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 22:31 utc | 26 Anonymous gave a link to Trumpian foreign policy. Priority #1: war with terrorism, with ISIS mentioned by name. A good priority, ISIS seems to be on the way out anyway. Priority #2: Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 21 2017 22:32 utc | 27 Piotr, these ships will be needed for the battle over the Arctic’s resources because you know the Americans and Canadians are planning on these big time. Posted by: mischi | Jan 21 2017 22:40 utc | 28 RE: 2, nmb, above … Posted by: rg the lg | Jan 21 2017 22:43 utc | 29 In the other thread someone made some crude remarks about Michelle Obama in the context of satanism, pedophilia and ritual sacrifice of the “elites”. There is no need to slander Obamas, let’s just share some knowledge about the topic. This is a fascinating read: Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 22:50 utc | 30 rg the lg @29 – “The Chinese are not appeasing neoliberalism. They are neoliberals …”. Addendum to my posts above: Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 21 2017 23:38 utc | 32 @4, Ben
A definite possibility, but before getting into the panic mode–it must be understood that the way real power of any nation is measured is very complex, and tri-polar global structure is emerging–PRC, USA and Russia. Other poles will emerge eventually but it has to be understood that BRICS, realistically, it is China and Russia. China is now in a precarious position since must wait for the US “offer” to Russia. It doesn’t mean that the “offer” will be accepted but now a lot, and I mean–a lot, will depend on the dynamics of US and Russian bargaining. Russia doesn’t trust US but let’s not overestimate Sino-Russian relations either–it is all work in progress. A lot depends on correct assessment of US position from the point of view of “pass the point of no return” or not. Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Jan 21 2017 23:59 utc | 33 Piotr, these ships will be needed for the battle over the Arctic’s resources because you know the Americans and Canadians are planning on these big time. Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 22 2017 0:03 utc | 34 @6 and @7. Not so much their opposition to the Soviet regime as much as saving their skins for overt collaboration with the Nazis during WWII. These were the scum of the earth who the Nazis were quick to fill the ranks of prison guards in the concentration camps….. Posted by: georgeg | Jan 22 2017 0:38 utc | 35 Forgotten ‘Real’ history, as opposed to the ‘bleached’ kind ….
– Post 10, and especially post 13, further relevant links to the real world effects of today given sponsorship of generations of ideologically indoctrinated children from birth within such ‘transplanted’ families, see :
NYT article & Declassified docu from the National Security Archives:
– Should read ‘Fascists & Nazi War criminals & associated Fascist ideological offshoots & entities Were given …’. But that’s the NYT, sanitizing such whenever possible, as ‘The Paper of Record’. even so some useful links. Especially recommend this one of the full 600 page report, ‘unredacted, as a result of the suit against the ‘Justice department’, run by the National Security Archives.
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 1:20 utc | 36 Piotr Berman@27 – Tonga and Tuvalu?? Those sneaky bastards must DIE! ALL of them! Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 22 2017 1:24 utc | 37 Anonymous 14 Laguerre 21 Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 1:26 utc | 38 While types like Canada’s oxymoronic ‘Freeland’ family are the epitome of asshole facism, I reckon it is a bit rough to single out all Ukrainian post ww2 emigrees as being sociopathic Nazis. I know I’ve written about this before but when I was living in North Australia I got to know a Ukrainian bloke pretty well who had just about walked all the way to Australia, When he was 14 or 15 (he was sorta unsure of his exact age) Red Army recruiters came through his village and rounded up all the males under 50 and put them in the Army. It was 1941 and the Nazis had attacked. My friend got captured in the first battle he was in which was a disorganised retreat in the face of nazi attack. He spent a few months in a huge open air prison camp slowly starving to death before SS Ukrainian recruiters came through one of whom he knew since they grew up in the same village. The guy told him if he wanted to live he better join up and grab a nice Hugo Boss uniform because if he didn’t he wouldn’t make it through the winter. Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 22 2017 1:34 utc | 39 To the ‘chosen 400’ at CIA central who sound rather appreciative. Posted by: x | Jan 22 2017 1:45 utc | 40 For the past four days days the US have been destroying oil wells and stills (or are they refineries) around Deir Ezzor (Dayr Az Zawr). I guess they expect the Syrian government to control this area soon? Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 2:00 utc | 41 @ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 21, 2017 8:34:25 PM | 39 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 2:06 utc | 42 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 9:00:47 PM | 41 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 2:14 utc | 43 Ya … think, today was T rump’s …..”six ways to Sunday” … come to jebus meeting with said alphabet group meeting? Where he told them how much he was …”behind them”? Cause they are “very, very special people”. He even brought Pence … to pay respects! He must have a both “public and private” position. Kinda like Killary! Posted by: Trixie from Dixie | Jan 22 2017 2:22 utc | 44 Women’s rights and $20m political donations to the Criminal Clinton Slush Fund (now closed for donations)? Posted by: x | Jan 22 2017 2:45 utc | 45 @ Outraged | Jan 21, 2017 9:14:35 PM | 43 Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 2:52 utc | 46 Full text transcript:
My, take is he’s ‘playing them’, and sending a direct, polite reminder, of bared ‘teeth’ smile style, as to who is now CIC and Prez … YMMV Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 2:53 utc | 47 @47 — agreed: “sending a direct, polite reminder, of bared ‘teeth’ smile style”. Posted by: x | Jan 22 2017 3:11 utc | 48 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 9:52:08 PM | 46
In my day it was the latter, with only extraordinary exceptions. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 3:11 utc | 49 20 Britain liked both because they liked getting stuff from foreign markets as well as having their own factory pumping out stuff. The empire was good in parts because there were some useful parts of the empire but also a lot of useless very expensive parts largely held to stop somebody else getting their hands on it. Posted by: Heath | Jan 22 2017 3:35 utc | 50 @ Posted by: x | Jan 21, 2017 10:11:09 PM | 48 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 3:56 utc | 51 Anonymous @ 19: Posted by: Jen | Jan 22 2017 3:57 utc | 52 @outraged and all who are following events at Deir Ezzor Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 4:26 utc | 53 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 11:26:56 PM | 53 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 4:32 utc | 54 Last I heard, Tuvalu has pretty much sunk under the ocean. Due to global swarming, or whatever. Posted by: blues | Jan 22 2017 4:40 utc | 55 You will have to add an extra smiley for this one outraged Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 4:46 utc | 56 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 21, 2017 11:26:56 PM | 53 Am, OUT! must have a lie down … Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 4:51 utc | 57 In compliance to b – META check ZeroHedge or YouTube for full vid… where I stole it (plagiarize) Posted by: OJS | Jan 22 2017 5:27 utc | 58 debsisdead #39 Posted by: ToivoS | Jan 22 2017 5:37 utc | 59 groan correction. I misspoke: Not’ France and Northern Germany’ rather France and Northern Italy. Posted by: ToivoS | Jan 22 2017 5:39 utc | 60 Outraged | Jan 21, 2017 11:51:00 PM | 57 “Am, OUT! must have a lie down …” Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 5:53 utc | 61 @58 Posted by: Circe | Jan 22 2017 6:39 utc | 62 headline now at Russia Insider “The Blame Game Begins: Obama Administration Says Syrian Rebels Encouraged US to ‘Work with’ Al Qaeda'” Posted by: mischi | Jan 22 2017 6:43 utc | 63 I’m from Ontario and I care a lot about Trump. I wonder if he’s gonna gut the auto industry here. He already did in Mexico. It’s a big part of our economy that has cohabited with US production for many years and both countries have done well out of the deal. Posted by: peter | Jan 22 2017 7:02 utc | 64 Circe | Jan 22, 2017 1:39:56 AM | 62 Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 7:26 utc | 65 Trump referring to media:
But in his first press conference as President-elect he called them a disgrace and compared what they did leaking the report on him to Nazi Germany. Posted by: Circe | Jan 22 2017 7:28 utc | 66 I really meant he wanted to save face in his speech to CIA employees so he falsely blamed the media for Posted by: Circe | Jan 22 2017 7:56 utc | 67 Trump to welcome British PM in 1st meeting with foreign leader, Posted by: Anonmymous | Jan 22 2017 7:57 utc | 68 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22, 2017 12:53:14 AM | 61 & 65 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 8:14 utc | 69 @mischi | Jan 22, 2017 1:43:52 This is beyond ridiculous.
Will the photos reveal the truth? Polish investigators to use new technique to confirm the identity of alleged Ukrainian war criminal Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 22 2017 8:34 utc | 70 86 Outraged Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22 2017 8:38 utc | 71 Jen Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 8:49 utc | 72 @ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 22, 2017 3:38:16 AM | 71
Further to the above, the other crucial benefit is the active aircrew lands dramatically less stressed and fatigued, as a result of virtually flying on auto-pilot (cruise control) until approaching Syria airspace. This then means you can squeeze more sorties out of the original crew before having to swap ’em out with standby/hot replacements. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 9:15 utc | 73 If you want to know who are the Antifa thugs look up the pic of the one who attacked a Trump supporter Richard Spencer. Antifa appears to be largely Jewish. In December they came from Germany and assaulted violently Polish MPs before the parliament building in Warsaw. Over last 10 years large numbers of Israelis flooded Germany especially the Berlin area as immigrants. Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 22 2017 9:43 utc | 74 @ToivoS#59 When I first met the guy there were elements of his story that I doubted but the foreign legion part is certainly true as I witnessed a fight (well more of a wrassle since they were pretty unfit late 50’s) between the guy and another ex-legionnaire who didn’t desert. My flatmate also checked him out as much as possible because even back then the possibility of him being a wanted war criminal was considered as much as we liked the guy the truth had to be uncovered before he was made an Australian. He had worked in a camp, although no one had any information good or bad about much beyond that, the USSR wasn’t particularly helpful but they weren’t burning up to send him to Siberia or whatever either. So his major parts were definitely true and like I said the actual shooting stuff in WW2 he was involved was when he was in the Soviet Army, I dunno why you insist he had to be in the Galizien SS division, I’m certain that not every Ukrainian who ended up with the nazis were confined to one unit who all fought in the same action. Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 22 2017 9:45 utc | 75 One more thing – did you notice that Trump contrary to all those leaders, celebrities and wannabes “fighting for freedom and democracy” did not show that ominous judeo-masonic V sign with his fingers ? It’s always shown whether it’s a color revolution, “rebels” in MENA, Winstobn Churchil, Killary, Bushes, Solidarity in Poland, “refugees” in the EU. etc… Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 22 2017 10:21 utc | 76 This documentary on Trump is quite a watch to understand where the World is heading. It is going to be a real fun. Posted by: laserlurk | Jan 22 2017 10:33 utc | 77 Followup to 73 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 10:36 utc | 78 Followup to 73 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 10:36 utc | 79 Posted by: peter | Jan 22, 2017 2:02:12 AM | 64
It is fun to watch Germany’s Merkel stick to the old talking point “alliances based on shared values” Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 10:54 utc | 80 add to 80 Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 11:29 utc | 81 @74 As a leading American Nazi Spencer was a legitimate target for Anti fascist action. This blog tends to applaud militant anti fascism in Donetsk, but balk at it in their own country. Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Jan 22 2017 11:29 utc | 82 Hate and scaremongering goes on, now Germany barks: Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 11:42 utc | 83 @Paul Cockshott Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 11:54 utc | 84 Words like fascism, imperialism, democracy, leftists, nazi, freedom, zionist, liberal and so on arte dirty words with no meaning at all. Posted by: From The Hague | Jan 22 2017 12:04 utc | 85 Paul Cockshott Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 12:06 utc | 86 Recent talk has reminded me. Has Trump said anything about closing overseas military bases? I think it’s logical to think that a serious non-interventionist policy would foremost imply a closure of overseas bases. Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 12:08 utc | 87 @86 those words all have meaning but vary, depending on what your analysis is. A “liberal” understanding of those words can be summed as: Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 12:20 utc | 88 @ Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22, 2017 6:42:02 AM | 84
Predominantly the leaders of our vassal states are died in the wool, Globalist(?)/Neocons of one shade or another. Especially UK, Canada, New Zealand & Australia. Five-Eyes members all.
The other interesting thing is there were supposedly 302 articles covering the above search, yet, when one checks on all articles, with duplicates removed, there are in fact only twenty unique ‘articles’, along the lines of the above, regardless of the publisher/nation. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 12:27 utc | 89 It’s also useful to look at whether your framework of discussion clarifies, or obscures understanding of some system. Unjust systems of power will resist attempts to challenge their authority, and hence seek to obscure understanding of their workings, through their own legitimating discourse. In the United States, “imperialism” is something Russia does (which may or may not be true). But the United States — as a rule — doesn’t practice imperialism. Posted by: David | Jan 22 2017 12:34 utc | 90 Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 22, 2017 7:12:46 AM | 89
Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22, 2017 6:42:02 AM | 84 Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 12:43 utc | 91 @ somebody #80 Posted by: Lysander | Jan 22 2017 12:44 utc | 92 somebody 93 Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 12:51 utc | 93 @93 somebody Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 22 2017 13:18 utc | 94 re 79
It isn’t. It’s on the other side of Qamishli from the border. Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 22 2017 13:24 utc | 95 @ Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 22, 2017 8:24:03 AM | 97 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 22 2017 13:42 utc | 96 Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22, 2017 7:51:49 AM | 95 Posted by: somebody | Jan 22 2017 13:44 utc | 97 Did you like the Chulov piece 650-mile trench stakes out claim for bigger Kurdish territory in Iraq? The guy is so disgusting that he writes approvingly of what is in effect an aggression and a land-grab. They’ve included a lot of land which is not Kurdish (The Kurdish idea of what is Kurdish is if there is a couple of Kurds in a region’s population. Did you know Kyrgyzstan is part of Kurdistan, because Stalin exiled a few Kurds there from Armenia?). Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 22 2017 13:48 utc | 98 @82 somebody Posted by: pantaraxia | Jan 22 2017 13:50 utc | 99 somebody Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 22 2017 13:53 utc | 100 |
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