Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 14, 2017

Open Thread 2017-02

News & views ...

Posted by b on January 14, 2017 at 16:00 UTC | Permalink

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thanks cresty. i know what you mean.. getting thru to some people is impossible.. they have been brainwashed fully.

and thanks mina @200 link..
"Unlike #Aleppo, humanitarian activists are not at all interested in helping 250,000 people who are besieged by #ISIS in #DeirEzZor!"

@202 daisee.. why am i not surprised?

Posted by: james | Jan 16 2017 17:49 utc | 201

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 15, 2017 9:18:35 PM | 196

Ah, that far back, bravo to Fenelon. His heart's in the right place; I should not have been so hard on him.

Speaking of heart in the right place, I have to forswear my eagerness to attend the cricket (this being an open thread, hopefully I can do so.)

Sadly, cricket also has entered the brave new reality none of us deplorables really want to see. There was a movie a while back on a roller ball theme where the audiences for such 'games' were being enticed into a kind of gladiatorial madness which infected even the players. 'We who are about to die salute you.'

The last cricket test in New Zealand between the Bangladeshis and a NZ team struggling to get back into the top tier is my candidate for roller derby madness as expressed by that film - the 'Deshies' soldiered on with accumulating injuries, even trips to hospital; the Kiwis won the game and were praised for it by most outlets I can find online. There's another test coming up; I won't be listening in on that one.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 16 2017 18:01 utc | 202

meanwhile, back in the real world of us dominated death, devastation, and destruction ISIS successfully splits Deir Ezzor enclave in two ... and the dd&d continues.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 16 2017 20:21 utc | 203
coroborated by

(and more recently by Fisk's interview of an army commander who says the gov was too mild)

Posted by: Mina | Jan 16 2017 20:27 utc | 204

Ref Gambia

Posted by: Mina | Jan 16 2017 22:10 utc | 205

The wife of the Orlando Nightclub gunman was arrested today. So I have given renewed thought to the attack with the benefit of addition info learned over the last 6 months.

The Orlando attack was the second attack on US soil and there's reason to suspect that each of the couples involved were undercover. Undercover! - not acting on impulse but waiting for a command.

Some clues: these were both couples with children(!). One or both of members of the coupled 'team' had traveled to Saudi Arabia in recent years.

I have previously speculated that the San Bernadino attack was done because the bombing of the Russian Metrojet from Eqypt's Sharm El Sheikh International Airport created a strange and incoherent disconnect that had to be addressed: The US had bombed ISIS for over a year but had not been attacked whereas Russia was attacked after bombing for ISIS for only a month!

It later became clear that US bombing was not nearly as robust as it could have been. Russian bombing of oil trucks made that clear. And just weeks prior, Obama had been embarrassed when a group of defense intelligence officials testified that their reporting on ISIS had been distorted

What then, might've been the intent behind the Orlando nightclub attack? I speculated at the time that, because San Bernadino was done AFTER an attack on Russia, the Orlando attack might've been done in anticipation of an ISIS attack on Russian interests.

But I'm not aware of any such major attack having ocurred. So we are left to (again) ponder: why? If the couple was ordered to conduct an attack, then there must've been a reason. In the absence of a reason, we have to question whether we can draw any connection at all between these two groups of attackers (despite the similarities).

So it behooves us to consider other possibilities:

(1) Related to Turkish coup attempt that occurred on July 15?

Rationale: Cover for US role in coup?

(2) Related to US elections?
A cursory investigation shows that TRUMP HAD JUST WON THE NOMINATION one week before. Furthermore, he poked fun at Hillary's inability to secure her party's nomination.

Rationale: An ISIS attack would play to Hillary's strength in foreign affairs and her support for strong national security.

(3) Related to the 'Assad must go!' effort?
"Fighting ISIS" seems to be an excuse for stepping up the fight against Assad.

Rationale: There is well-known consternation regarding Obama's unwillingness to commit US more fully in Syria (liberal interventionism). Might this attack have been aimed at prodding more US involvement?

(4) Something else?

(5) More than one of the above?

Here's my thinking on the matter:
>> I discount (1) because the connection to the Turkish coup seeks strained. There was never any attempt to connect attacks on US with the need to depose Erdogan. And IIRC, part of the reason the coup was said to have failed is that the coup plotters accelerated their schedule so the time between the attack and the coup was planned would've been even longer than the 5 weeks that it was. Also, IMO there is a reasonable case to make that the attempted coup was a false flag to enable Erdogan to consolidate power (the CIA might've helped Erdogan!).

>> I discount (3) because there wasn't a strong push to embarrass Obama for not "fighting them THERE so we don't have to fight them HERE".

>> I think (2) makes the most sense for three reasons:

1) Hillary quickly tried to use the attack to bolster her campaign with a lengthy statement that assumed that the attack was a terror attack. Sanders statement contemplated the possibility of a bias attack.

Then Hillary slammed Trump's (predictable) response.

2) We have seen come to learn that the Clinton Foundation was allegedly taking lots of money from Sunni sources.

3) We have seen a determined effort by US intel agencies to block Trump. Intel agencies are the key players in the effort to remove Assad with extremists.

Look forward to any thoughts of others at the bar.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 16 2017 22:52 utc | 206

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 16, 2017 5:52:05 PM | 208

Plausible, given interests, associations, demonstrable past actions ... she being the 'Grim Reaper' incarnate ... she relishes, revels in her power to, kill.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 17 2017 0:31 utc | 207

@208 jr... one wonders how much is involved in selling isis at home to help with the constant attack on any freedoms left.. expanding the perpetual war budget is a given.. saudi arabia is no friend of the usa's... one wonders when the payback comes? are these one offs part of it? going in bed with the wahabbis never made any sense to me, other from an arm sales pov... i know about the petrodollars for weapons exchange.. nonsense factory articulates this fairly well... i quote them below..

@184 nonsense factory - "It's the Gulf monarchies and their 1974 deal with the U.S. still propping it up - they get military and political support in exchange for having OPEC sell oil for dollars only. The Arab Spring was the greatest threat to their continued dictatorial rule, so the U.S. helped crush the Arab Spring in their countries (and in Libya and Syria, helped turn it into Wahhabi-Salafist terrorism). In exchange, they keep selling oil for dollars and depositing those dollars into sovereign wealth funds that park it in London & New York banks."

personally i think your #3 is an ongoing given, doesn't necessarily connect to the attack you reference directly, but is always ongoing as i see it..

they caught the guy who did the new years day attack in istanbul with his young kid with him.. one wonders about what they do with the wife and kids. regarding this san bernadino attack.. i can't remember much about it other then it was some couple out of the blue. i doubt it was cover up for the attack on russian plane out of egypt.. i seem to recall that was a direct response to russias involvement in the syrian war.. russian tourists were still visiting egypt up til then. i don't think i would make any connection between these 2 events myself.. maybe i am missing something.. i agree with you isis is the usa-saudi arabias dog - paid mercenary force.. all on the q t of course... the diez ezzor focus the past 24 hours is more of the same.. ash carter accidentially murders 60-100 syrian army people and they lose the hilltops overlooking diez ezzor and wouldn't ya just know it - isis is much better positioned and going in at present.. coincidence shit like this is just to hard not to see thru.. the san bernadino thing seems like a separate thing to me..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2017 1:53 utc | 208

from the libya thread.... jfl


more instructive might be a tally of posts attacking other posters vs good faith posts trying to contribute something to the commonweal.

sorry days at moa. the 'trolls troll the trolls' - or revet to their own one-noted songs - and we're all left without nourishment, without reason to be here, really.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 16, 2017 9:41:59 PM | 56 <<

oh, indeed jfl.. but then that would be revealing too much! i don't like to give everything away and leave it all hanging in the open.. folks paying attention can see it for what it is..

folks who blabber endlessly, while attacking others referring to them as trolls gets pretty predictable and boring as shit.. one does learn how to skip over posts and to make a joke of it too which is what i was doing with that one post..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2017 4:38 utc | 209

@ Posted by: james | Jan 16, 2017 11:38:32 PM | 212

One has referred to Trolls, in one thread, once each, and not repeated. Explained in detail subsequent.

Given the posts at Libya thread 47, an outlandish personal slander & provable fiction/fraud, my considered reply at 50, the 'content', with supporting evidence/link, is somehow inappropriate, as a response ? Am confused ...

One stands by my posts contents across ones entire, posting history ...

May one ask why the concern with post numbers/by posters, as opposed to the posters posts, content ? Recall a jibe re the 'Outraged Chronicles' ? Or were these merely forgetting to add /snark ?

Alas, limited text only, often lacks nuance, may have misunderstood your position. If so, my error, and offer my apologies.


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 17 2017 4:51 utc | 210

Trump on Africa,
*We’ve been fighting al-Shabaab for a decade, why haven’t we won?*

you mean you dont know, really ?

well then waterboard mike pompeo, he'll tell you wtf they've been doing there all these years. !
one thing you can be sure, they would never kill that goose with its golden egges. !
Aq & co, the gift that keeps on giving

*The recent rumors about a forthcoming regime change operation in Malawi are a perfect case in point, as they indicate how the US is actively working to undermine African governments in order to gain a relative geopolitical gain against China. It might even be that Washington wants to turn Malawi into the ‘next Burundi’ in order to complicate the socio-humanitarian situation on both sides of the Tanzanian-Zambian border and attack the existing TAZARA and prospective Tanzania-Zambia-Angola railroads via asymmetrical means, perhaps via a destabilizing overflow of refugees and/or the potential infiltration of armed militants into this transnational transit corridor.

This is but one example of the many scenarios that the US is planning as a means to subvert China’s transoceanic projects, and all developments in the bicoastal and Central African space must be seen through the prism of the US’ anti-Silk Road Hybrid War strategy.
Be it Al Shabaab terrorism in northeastern Kenya or a Color Revolution in the Congo, every ongoing and forecasted event of major importance in the outlined area is absolutely linked to the New Cold War that the US is waging against China, with Africa’s future as a unipolar neo-imperial colony or a multipolar center of influence hanging in the balance.*

Posted by: denk | Jan 17 2017 4:58 utc | 211

James, re San Bernardino:

6/20/16 Canada's Postmedia published APs detailed story on San Bernardino "shooting" a day before it happened! across all its online news platforms, since erased (Sceenshots included).

This link gives you in-depth background to the hoax, including motive.

Posted by: Penelope | Jan 17 2017 5:02 utc | 212

@213 outraged...

the post tally was a joke in light of the more serious and ongoing allegations of who is or isn't a troll..

the outraged chronicles comment was another one in the same vein.. but i don't hide much very well and find your ongoing attacks on so many of the posters a bit much.. you might have something positive to say too, but this constant labeling of posters as trolls - twice on the libya thread - gets difficult to stomach.. it might be bad enough that there are some folks who want to destabilize moa intentionally.. you seem to be succeeding unintentionally! in other words, it might not be your intention but it would be helpful if you said more in less posts... obviously, you are going to do what you do, and others like myself am going to comment on it from time to time.. it is the nature of a relatively free environment here where folks can say what they want to say.. no one has to answer to anyone for the most part - which is a good thing..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2017 5:05 utc | 213

@215 penelope.. thanks.. i never really followed it and was just responding to jfls comments about the possible motive behind it.. for all i know, it could be a manufactured hoax too.. i generally never watch videos, but prefer transcripts..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2017 5:09 utc | 214

@ Posted by: james | Jan 17, 2017 12:05:48 AM | 216

Hear you ...

A brief, observation, which is a short phrased sentence or possibly two, ... occasionally ... assists others, and the majority are lurkers, and not necessarily regulars, as opposed to more assertive/confident, commenters/posters. On those occasions, the brief comments were a 'tag' and not offensive.

You have not responded to my query re the validity of posts contents as opposed to post count ? And most importantly, was one to accept/let pass, the post ad-hominem 'Big Lie' at 47 ? Have you followed the link provided ?

Sincerely, would appreciate your response.

You may also be interested in the posts in the thread two earlier than that one back in 2005, or not, re my, 'bona fides' Bonfire of the vanities ... 11 years ago.

Do you know of 'Traffic Analysis' ? Are you familiar with 'Stylometry' ? What you call attacks, were the result of lengthy, detailed analysis ... co-ordinated ... not emotive, not accidental ...

Perhaps the additional of /snark, :), ;) or similar may be of use where the text alone, in and of itself, is not necessarily crystal clear to others ? Alas, fear, one may likely only be annoying you further ... :(

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 17 2017 5:29 utc | 215

james 211
Palmyra ties into all of this. It was taken to prevent or slow down the Syrian gov forces from pushing through to Deir Ezzor while the main attack on D E occurred.
Good planning, weather forecasting ect ect all courtesy of the US embassy in ISIS country (CIA? whoever). Not to mention the US close air support for ISIS at the start of this operation.
The current attack on Deir Ezzor is a major operation with much planning and preparatory work gone into it.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 17 2017 5:54 utc | 216

@224 peter au.. it sure looks that way to me... the usa says one thing while doing the exact opposite.. they are liars, thru and thru...

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2017 6:01 utc | 217

Amazing, Obama keep provoking with only 1 week left!

"After angering Russia by sending thousands of troops to Poland, the United States has now deployed nearly 300 Marines to Norway, prompting serious warnings from Moscow."

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 17 2017 8:29 utc | 218

Inadvertently posted "It Can't Happen Here" …

From: The Automatic Earth -


Observation: Priceless

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 17 2017 10:44 utc | 219

@ b

Thank you, re the cleanup. Kameraden. ;)

Had already surmised/realized some serious/extended account ID Hijacking was going on ... cannot be sustained in extended engagement.

Is there any way to move to verified, registered or email associated accounts ? Just askin' ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 17 2017 12:39 utc | 220

Prozac for all til the 21th.
In case of future improvements, some suggestions:
-allow readers to ban for their own readings some posters/put the name on top of post rather than below
-limit the number of comments per day per IP to ten (tecchies will find ways but it might be a start)

Posted by: Mina | Jan 17 2017 13:10 utc | 221

Here's a link to a review of William Pepper's book describing how the US Government murdered MLKjr,

I don't know if b has ever written about this assassination. I used the results of the 1999 civil trial of the King family vs the USG, which proved USG guilty as charged, as a teaching tool to try and inform students of the Truth--a Truth all too many are completely ignorant about.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 17 2017 17:27 utc | 222


If you don't want to read a post, scroll past it...

I see no need for any of us to ban someone... b is the bartender here, he is in charge of banning.

Let's try and be democratic, if not in the USA, at least on this blog.

(My 2 cents, YMMV)

Posted by: crone | Jan 18 2017 1:05 utc | 223

*Putting submarines below the sea surface to avoid detection is indeed a brilliant idea. How come we did not think of this?

But don't fear. A few hundred billion dollars more for the Navy will be a great first step to counter this Chinese threat.
One or the other presidential candidate will soon make such bolstering of the Navy a core tenet of his or her program.*

warning !
Do skip pass my posts ,[ incendiary language] !

Posted by: denk | Jan 18 2017 2:51 utc | 224

"DECLINE of EMPIRES: The Signs of Decay" (2003?) uploaded 2008.

"Chalmers Johnson, author of Blowback, Sorrows of Empire and Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic , talks about the similarities in the decline of the Roman and Soviet empires and the signs that the U.S. empire is exhibiting the same symptoms: overextension, corruption and the inability to reform."

Tune in around 17:00+ for an interesting comparison between Soviet decline and current USA political dynamics.

Posted by: x | Jan 18 2017 6:05 utc | 225

@ Posted by: x | Jan 18, 2017 1:05:35 AM | 227

Recommended Link. Thank you kindly for posting it. :)


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 18 2017 6:21 utc | 226

Moved from - Jan 17, 2017 - How the us enabled ISIS to take dier-ezzor thread, page 2 post 111. ...

@ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 18, 2017 1:28:34 AM | 111

Concur wholly with your sentiments re the brutality, denigration and inhumane treatment Manning has been forced to endure :(

My take is the same, re intent. Obama has done so, just as he has with the last few weeks other provocations and last days actions. Has created what he perceives for Trumpster as a near term, timed, political, poison pill.

Way to go Obama, Droning-master extraordinaire. What a guy! See Nil genuine/sincere in the carefully calculated Machiavellian mindset on display.

So it comes to this re an Administration's transition of power ? Oh, and screw Manning, re the 'to come' consequences re vilification x 10 hysteria that will emerge ... :(

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 18 2017 6:54 utc | 227

Donald *drain the swamp* trump is reeking like the swamp itself !

Posted by: denk | Jan 18 2017 9:48 utc | 228

Obama has pronounced that Chelsea Manning's 35-year prison sentence will be commuted to Time Served as at May 17, 2017. The Deep State's wishful thinkers are hoping that this will lead to Julian Assange surrendering to US Authorities, because of a statement he made to the effect that he would surrender if Manning was 'pardoned' - which isn't what 'commute' means.

Clearly, the Deep State would rather preserve a Phantom Menace (Assange) than to act like a grown-up. Just once.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 18 2017 10:38 utc | 229

Obama keeps provoking another world war,

Biden calls Russia threat to world order, warns of clash with West

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 18 2017 13:23 utc | 230

I have come up with a potty, deep state conspiracy idea, which germinated for me on another site discussing global warming and doesn't seem to want to go away - if folk can shoot me down here, I would very much appreciate that, but it also ties into Outraged's mini-discussion about reality, so I thought I'd put it on here.

The global warming 'debate' and overheatedness (heh) about whether it is man-caused or a natural feature that's cyclical in nature and so inevitable might be a deliberate obfuscation - if in fact it is both. It is cyclical, but on a gradual time frame that would not have impacted so rapidly and with such devastating effects, had we not entered in on the industrial age, etc. etc.

So, now torrential rains, increasedly savage storms, massive floods, tidal incursions are suddenly upon us. Weather eruptions and temperatures up and down the scale in seasonal chaos.

In the other forum I raised the question about what is also being loudly insisted upon - massive drought. I was told to go read the data, that the models do predict this.

The models. Well now, is that the new reality? Is it really that we are all doomed, just a question of time? And I thought about the middle east, the desert countries, where war is now raging and where massive migrations out are taking place. Citizens fleeing cities under siege, as b is so accurately reporting here. Rampage and devastation all across that region. Emptying it out.

What if it is really not about oil? What if the models are being tweaked? What if what is happening rapidly is not further desertification but those areas are being transformed into the only liveable areas left in the new/old reality earth - the only future inhabitable areas - by the rapid oncoming global reset? What if war is necessary in order to accomplish anti-migrations from regions that will be the new Eden as a new ice age does come down on presently populated areas like Europe and the coastal regions, island nations across the globe?

As I said, shoot me down. It's one way of occupying the next two days without worrying about what T--- would do. (See, I didn't mention his name, so I get points for that at least.)

Posted by: juliania | Jan 18 2017 15:10 utc | 231

See, my post would explain why Russia is such a 'threat', China as well. It's also an explanation for the rise of the deplorables in the US. The middles of continents are the new power centers. Being landlocked isn't such a bad thing. The seas are indeed becoming, sadly, uninhabitable, with surging currents, undersea earthquakes, tsunamis, while what is being done by the planet itself is a vast desalinization project in the sky - evaporation, rainfall, recycling of the increasingly dense ocean onto formerly cold and arid landscapes. The smaller lands surrounded by ocean have already started a rapid deformation - fracking is puny by comparison but it's a good distraction for the energies of populations which might become troublesome in the great old urban centers. So are the other distractions - bigotry, race, gender, surveillance, finance - you name it. Above all, TINA, and above that unending war.

Maybe it's not a manmade conspiracy. Maybe it's just the way things are.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 18 2017 15:56 utc | 232

@ Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 18, 2017 5:38:25 AM | 231

Yes, also a possible attempted twofer. two for the price of one, re Assange. tho doubt he'll fall for it. Demonstrably not an idiot and competenlt advised.

Re our previous discussion re CIA & State & Military being, not monolithic, especially when operating concurrently ...

The POTUS issues policy directives, subordinates are delegated to carry them out. They then interpret and issue more detailed instructions, to their subordinates/agencies/Departments/commands and so on.

Hence the actual policy settings and specific instructions, with or without omissions/re-interpretations/additions/changed focus/specificity that are received from superiors at the Embassy/Local Command/CIA Local Station(national), may be *ahem*, somewhat different than what their POTUS envisaged ... also see 'Chinese Whispers'/'Russian Scandal'/'Pass the Message' game.

The other element in the 'real world' results/actions/consequences, is the considerable latitude given/allowed and/or wilful corruption/opposition to, that may be exercised by Commanders/Commands, Ambassadors, CIA Directors/Deputy Directors/Head of Station ... ie. open, documented, publicly known examples:

Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge's conduct re Sth Vietnam's President Ngo Dinh Diem and US Coup ... Sth Vietnam Head of Station DCI John McCone re same ... General Petraeus re Iraq(Abu Ghraib(Torture)/Sunni 'Awakening'), and General Stanley McChrystal (F*ck the President) re Afghanistan ...

Hope that is of assistance/clarification ;)


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 18 2017 16:16 utc | 233

Hope that is of assistance/clarification ;)
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 18, 2017 11:16:08 AM | 235

Unfortunately it wasn't. It looked more like an exercise in obscurantism (changing the subject), to me.
Which part of #231 did you interpret as a plea for clarification?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 18 2017 17:31 utc | 234

@ 236

Respectfully, was in two parts. Second part being, an unrelated followup re a previous discussion, broken over multiple posts ie:

Re our previous discussion re CIA & State & Military being, not monolithic, especially when operating concurrently ...

With respect.

Kind regards.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 18 2017 17:39 utc | 235

Hoarsewhisperer @231

According to DOJ clemency rules, a pardon was never a possibility:

Pursuant to the Rules Governing Petitions for Executive Clemency, which are available on this website, a person is not eligible to apply for a presidential pardon until a minimum of five years has elapsed since his release from any form of confinement imposed upon him as part of a sentence for his most recent criminal conviction, whether or not that is the conviction for which he is seeking the pardon.

So Assange's offer was a publicity stunt.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 18 2017 17:44 utc | 236

Correction to 238

Wikipedia has expanded info that makes more sense given that the Constitution gives the President the right to grant pardons (without restriction):

The Justice Department requires that anyone requesting a pardon wait five years after conviction or release prior to receiving a pardon. A presidential pardon may be granted at any time, however, and as when Ford pardoned Nixon, the pardoned person need not yet have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 18 2017 18:00 utc | 237

@ Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 18, 2017 12:44:12 PM | 238

Just clarifying, when one sometimes makes a post to '@ a poster ie jackrabbit', it may be a mechanism to post to a wider audience(MOA) re 'bouncing off' the posts content ... not necessarily, any form of criticism/disagreement of the post contents itself ... sort of a rhetorical tool, re addressing the 'House' or 'Senate' or addressing a parliaments 'Speaker'. Trust the previous made some sort of sense ? :)

The remaining small cluster is determined to disregard, *** Meta *** ... will not likely, end well :(

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 18 2017 18:08 utc | 238

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 18, 2017 12:44:12 PM | 238

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered that there would be rules governing declarations of clemency by POTUS. Nor have I perused the record of such acts to see whether the rules have been strictly followed in the past.
But we agree that Assange was probably having a bit of fun with humourless Yankees who take themselves far too seriously.

And it worked. Last night's International News was rife with speculation about WHEN Assange would surrender - not IF.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 18 2017 18:24 utc | 239

His lawyer has announced that Mr Assange will definitely NOT be turning himself in to AmeriKKKa (Al Jazeera 15 minutes ago).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 18 2017 18:51 utc | 240

How long before he gets accused of breaking his word?

Posted by: dh | Jan 18 2017 19:02 utc | 241


He didnt, he said he would give himself in IF Manning was RELEASED. He wasnt. So it would be weird if MSM tells that, unless they deliberately wanto to spread fake-news.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 18 2017 19:10 utc | 242

@244 You think a little semantics will stop them?

Posted by: dh | Jan 18 2017 19:44 utc | 243

@245 Hoarse is absolutely right. Manning hasn't been pardoned so Assange pulled a fast one on the people who are out to get him. Let's see how McCain reacts.

Posted by: dh | Jan 18 2017 20:04 utc | 244

i liked this post on the deiz ezzor thread.. i think it is on the money.. obama has shown himself to be one first rate sleaze ball, servant to the 1% and very little of anything else..

"With regard to comments about Chelsea Manning

Has anyone else here ever been on the inside waiting for a date? A date four months off is not a date. It is a trick. It is a cynical ploy. If Obama had any intention of commuting her sentence it would be commuted to time served, followed by immediate release while Obama still has something to say about the matter. What he did instead is manipulative and sleazy past reckoning. Chelsea Manning is more likely to be dead in four months time than free.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Jan 18, 2017 9:26:24 AM | 131"

Posted by: james | Jan 18 2017 20:21 utc | 245

RT report:
Trump’s UN pick Nikki Haley shows support for Israel, Nato, hard line on Russia, accusing Russia of genocide in Syria!

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 18 2017 22:15 utc | 246

the earthquakes in italy. why has no one ... no one with a voice that carries ... mentioned fracking? or have they, and i've missed it?

there was a wave of earthquakes near here where i live ... i attribute them to fracking in a Royal Thai Army oil reserve in amphoe fang. or perhaps in Burma. no mention here either.

there have been swarms of earthquakes in oklahoma, all 'obviously' the result of fracking. ... i say obviously because the evidence is co-occurrence. no one knows exactly what's being pumped into the earth to fracture the rock and release the gas, or how much of it is being pumped. proprietary information. ... but it's poisonous, and earthquake associated ... i assume earthquake inducing as well.

just another of dick cheney's gifts that keep on giving.

the RTA cut a deal with a flaky american fracker in isaan as well ... sent armed soldiers to escort and protect their drilling crews! can anyone doubt that thailand is a country occupied by Bangkok and its alien Royal Thai Army? with the drop in petrocarbon prices the activity has stopped, but will resume when prices go back up. as they will in italy, if they aren't ongoing.

poisoning aquifers and inducing earthquakes. corporate aliens, inhumans from another planet devastating and destroying mother earth.

as well Hottest Year on Earth, Third Year in a Row.

tee-rump is all for it ... all of it. what a bastard. An' here I sit so patiently. Waiting to find out what price. You have to pay to get out of. Going through all these things twice. Oh, Mama, can this really be the end? ...

Posted by: jfl | Jan 19 2017 0:42 utc | 247

It is kicking off as I feared, many people will make all sorts of justifications for the horror that will certainly ensue.

Tourists and Gambians have scrambled to leave the west African country after the Senegalese army said its forces would cross the border if long-time president Yahya Jammeh did not stand down.

Last-ditch efforts by the leaders of Mauritania and Senegal to persuade Jammeh to step aside peacefully after ruling for more than two decades appeared to have failed early on Thursday.

If one came over all 90's and examined the subtext for the graun article it would be something like. "Western powers refuse to tolerate Jammeh any longer so we have cranked up the neighbours to kick him out. As per usual for these events we are attempting to limit the bumber of whitefella casualties in order to mitigate the blowback from bourgeois whitefellas in France, England and amerika. The unwhites? If they hadn't wanted to be raped or murdered they shouldn't have let themselves to be born in Africa".

I expect all the usual justifications from Gambia = evil and Senegal= "really good people" to "what would you know? I've been there".

Now I will concede that most of my trips to africa have favoured former englander colonies over former/current french possessions, but that is purely a function of my reality, - that my French considered passable in the South of France, but 100% untenable in & around Paris, travels worse than a nuit san georges, and it just dosn't work in Africa. Even if locals put in the hard yards to understand what I am saying, I completely fail to comprehend them.

The coming invasion of Gambia and planned regime change is informed by one over arching fact that no amount of "I've been there and know" can ever alter.
That over-arching fact is that no matter how many Gambia citizens have been discomfited or even murdered by those loyal to Jammeh, those numbers will pale into insignificance against the tens of thousands who will be butchered and millions rendered homeless by an invasion and attempted regime change.

The fact is not the result of someone deciding to 'take sides' in an inevitable tragedy so I have 'juked' the facts to suit the side I have picked as if Gambia's coming disaster is a game of football and I am choosing to be selective to favour 'my team'.
That fact is based on observed reality. Observed in Iraq, israel, Libya and Haiti or any other example amnyone may care to name. Invasion and regime change is a 'cure' that is always worse than the disease

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 19 2017 4:14 utc | 248

@ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 18, 2017 11:14:17 PM | 250

Indeed. Faux R2P!

May one share one last time?

Visited Aus, as you mention in anecdotes often, in an official capacity in a former life. Was leading a small team examining AUS ... ah, forgotten ... Strategic Infrastructure, such as former dozens upon dozens of WWII B-17 distributed relay/staging airfields, even then overgrown and forgotten ...

An AUS Army PR Flak and an enlisted Army medic were assigned to 'chaperone' us.

When we stopped in to visit an Indigenous 'Station/reservation/settlement', we were passing by ... the medic and PR flak grandiosely stepped forward and openly declared the young smiling local children who ran up to us, as diseased, likely infected, and under no circumstances to come in physical contact with them, literally in the smiling cheerful children's faces.

One pulled them aside and had a brief ... conversion ...

The team did exactly the opposite, one can proudly recall, and gave up whatever treats and personal luxuries we had with us. For what trivial difference that made in the scheme of things ...

Was once at an embassy function ... there were a couple of individuals from the South African embassy and two from the AUS military, we were socializing with ... the then Apartheid era Afrikaaners suddenly blurted out that they admired the Aussies for having had the wit to deal with their kafirs properly, by shooting & poisoning & placing bounties on their heads until the Indigenous were virtually genocided ... they claimed South Africa had always been ... too soft ... and were now paying the price!

The non SA in attendance promptly found reasons to be elsewhere, made their brief polite apologies and headed for the punch/lavatories/smoking den/fresh air, etc.

Always greatly valued your personal, heartfelt insights ...

The Hasbarists/ProPornOT posters will not desist nor relent, re ad-hominem, nor with sowing dissent/discord re this poster, and one is too old and of insufficient health to struggle against that tide, virtually alone. Miss R'Giap ...

Goodbye & Vale, pax tecum, Debsisdead

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 19 2017 4:52 utc | 249

@ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 18, 2017 11:14:17 PM | 250

Indeed. Faux R2P!

May one share one last time?

Visited Aus, as you mention in anecdotes often, in an official capacity in a former life. Was leading a small team examining AUS ... ah, forgotten ... Strategic Infrastructure, such as former dozens upon dozens of WWII B-17 distributed relay/staging airfields, even then overgrown and forgotten ...

An AUS Army PR Flak and an enlisted Army medic were assigned to 'chaperone' us.

When we stopped in to visit an Indigenous 'Station/reservation/settlement', we were passing by ... the medic and PR flak grandiosely stepped forward and openly declared the young smiling local children who ran up to us, as diseased, likely infected, and under no circumstances to come in physical contact with them, literally in the smiling cheerful children's faces.

One pulled them aside and had a brief ... conversion ...

The team did exactly the opposite, one can proudly recall, and gave up whatever treats and personal luxuries we had with us. For what trivial difference that made in the scheme of things ...

Was once at an embassy function ... there were a couple of individuals from the South African embassy and two from the AUS military, we were socializing with ... the then Apartheid era Afrikaaners suddenly blurted out that they admired the Aussies for having had the wit to deal with their kafirs properly, by shooting & poisoning & placing bounties on their heads until the Indigenous were virtually genocided ... they claimed South Africa had always been ... too soft ... and were now paying the price!

The non SA in attendance promptly found reasons to be elsewhere, made their brief polite apologies and headed for the punch/lavatories/smoking den/fresh air, etc.

Always greatly valued your personal, heartfelt insights ...

The Hasbarists/ProPornOT posters will not desist nor relent, re ad-hominem, nor with sowing dissent/discord re this poster, and one is too old and of insufficient health to struggle against that tide, virtually alone. Miss R'Giap ...

Goodbye & Vale, pax tecum, Debsisdead

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 19 2017 4:54 utc | 250


Pentagoon/state dept doing a favour for big oil/war street, isnt that a good ole murkkan tradition ?

there was a time when any joe who had difficulty with a business rival could go to the local mafia don, aka 'the fixer', and asked for a favor.
next morning the business rival got the shock of his life when he opened the fridge and found the bloodied head of his pet racing horse !
after that joe had no more problem with that rival.

it sure is handy to know someone in the mafia, er, state dept, as rex Tillerson would no doubt agrees. He used to call 'the fixer' to help 'smoothing out' some difficult deals when he was at Exxon.

Better still, now that Tillerson himself is the 'fixer', surely he wont mind granting some favors
to his buddies at Exxon ?
hhhhhhh !

General Butler,
*I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. !*


Posted by: denk | Jan 19 2017 4:55 utc | 251

I dunno how much the military types in Oz have changed since a previous government trying to rebalance some marginal electorates in NSW moved a couple regiments of infantry, same number of fighter bomber squadrons plus a newly constituted navy patrol base to my former balliwick in northern australia, but I do know that before that I was caught in a couple of blues with both Australian and US military during joint exercises conducted in the North. It always came down to the same thing the inability for australian or amerikan troops to understand indigenous australians role in the Top End.

The last and worst blue was after cricket training one night. Our club trained twice a week during the season, across all senior grades so I guess there was somewhere between 30 and 40 of us standing around in a garden bar that fronted onto the road. There were also two groups of soldiers still in fatigues one amerikan one australian. I dunno how many they were; each group was probably smaller than us but together they outnumbered the cricket club.
A couple of indigenous Australians walked past and shouted something out to the soldiers I heard something like "Good onya mate" but the soldiers claimed they believed the guys had insulted them.
It went downhill from there The indigenous people said something along the lines of "Why you being so rude brother. You've just been out in our country running around in your tanks scaring all the tucker away from the water holes & we welcomed you, but we come through here visiting, and you are rude to us."

Of course the soldiers who deliberately or foolishly misunderstood what the blokes meant when they said our country, took offense by doing the usual redneck trick of insisting Australia was all one country etc.

About that time one of our fast bowlers who definitely suffered from fast bowler disease (an ability to turn from being a relatively normal chap into a ball of extremely focused aggression in an instant) decided this was beyond the pale and the indigenous blokes (who I reckon had been holding their own remarkably well for traditional people who are psychically disadvantaged when engaging people outside their 'country' or traditional territory) needed some evening up of the numbers.
The blue kicked off between the OZ & amerikan soldiers on one side and the cricket club plus a couple of yulgnu on the other side and in no time the garden bar furniture was kindling and most of is were covered in mud and blood and booze. The proprietor had switched to plastic jugs a while before so luckily the bar wasn't able to be weaponised too much when a few prowler loads of local coppers and us & Oz MP's fronted. Mein host who had called the coppers was anxious to avoid any of the cricket club from being arrested because in typical grog pusher thinking, we would be around next week, next year, next century as long as he didn't offend us.
The MP's weren't gonna allow any soldiers to be plucked, so that just left the two Yolgnu blokes. That didn't sit well with the local cops since a) they had no idea who the guys were and they could be extremely well connected chaps meaning big scandal coppers getting ass kicked etc, & b) they probably shared the same view as the cricket club, that these guys had a perfect right to walk down the road.

Fortunately for everyone concerned (except the diseased fast bowler) the indication these two blokes might be taken off for a night in the slammer, provoked him even more than the racist attitudes of the soldiers (incidentally there was a coupla african americans in the group and their attitude towards members of the longest surviving continuous human culture the world has seen, appeared no different than the other thick-witted bullies) so our bowler grabbed one of the cops and told him what he thought of gutlessly racist timeserving yes men.
In no time at all the cops had him manacled and in the back of a police truck, the two Yolgnu continued their walk to their uncle's place, the asshole soldiers talked even more shit and the proprietor put a round up for the cricket club "being such good sports".

There is no doubt that the military in societies such as Australia, where joining the armed forces is a choice and rarely if ever an economic neccessity, attract the type of rightist racist fuckwit who has no business being taught how to fight, but not all Oz soldiers are like that.
Many years ago there used to be a TV series called "Bush Tucker man" which was about an Oz officer who had been tasked with discovering the edible plants and easily catchable animal food sources across the north of Australia. His job was to get the traditional indigenous people to reveal their food sources, so in the event of Oz & Indonesia going to war and that war being fought in Australia's north soldiers could feed and water themselves despite interrupted supply lines. That fellow, Hiddons, had pretty much the same attitude towards Yolgnu (awe at their steadfastness) as most other 'top enders'.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 19 2017 6:51 utc | 252

In the meantime, in the land of the free and the home of the brave:

St. Louis police publicly searched for, found no drugs in woman's vagina - lawsuit

I don't think that would be possible in Europe, except in the UK maybe...

Probably the police were trained by the Israeli advisors...

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 20 2017 2:27 utc | 253

@ProPeace #255 Yeah I saw something about that St Louis case and another equally horrifying 'cavity' search in another state a few days ago - it may have been in the intercept, I don't remember.
The elephant in the room with these sort of illegal and just plain wrong instances of the destruction of a citizen's right to be an unfettered individual by members of the very organisation which is tasked with protecting those rights, is that it empowers those trusted with policing power to fulfil their twisted fantasies.
The other day when I wrote about how bullying teachers would try to enforce discipline among us 12, 13 and 14 year old boys attending their school, by whipping them with a cane similar to those still used on criminals in parts of the ME & Asia outta the blue I remembered one 'master' who used to stick his hand down the back of our trousers for a good feel around because he claimed he "had to make sure we weren't trying to avoid punishment by sticking out school cap down there to absorb some of the energy".
Yeah right - the guy was just another twisted pedo whose sick fantasies were enabled by his unsupervised power over students.
I'm certain if 'Officer Hawkins' were to be properly investigated that her sick fantasies would be revealed.
One of the most insidious features of the way amerikan imperialism functions is the strategy of using disposable dysfunctionals at the pointy end of the murder, theft & rape, so that anything too egregious can be 'solved' by shit canning the shit-kicker.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 20 2017 3:20 utc | 254

@ Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 19, 2017 10:20:02 PM | 256

Indeed, so very true, as discussed many times before ... see Iraq, Abu Ghraib, MPs/Interrogators/Torture/Murder/Dis-appearing ... :(

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 20 2017 4:45 utc | 255

The hate goes on,

12 year old kid sets fire in the streets, say "screw Trump"

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 20 2017 12:02 utc | 256

Germany sending troops to Baltics as part of NATO's anti-Russia force

Earlier this month, the US deployed nearly 4,500 troops and more than 2,800 pieces of military hardware to Poland in a bid to take part in NATO war games that Washington touted as “defense against Russian aggression.”

“We perceive it as a threat. These actions threaten our interests, our security, especially as it concerns a third party building up its military presence near our borders. It’s [the US], not even a European state,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said at the time.

According to the reports, soldiers from Battalion 122 of Germany’s mechanized infantry, along with 26 Leopard-2 tanks and 170 armored vehicles would be stationed in Lithuania nearly 100 kilometers away from the Russian city of Kaliningrad in the coming weeks.

Germany is deploying hundreds of soldiers to the Baltic region near the Russian border as part of a force organized by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

The 500-strong military contingent, including 450 troops from German armed forces and the rest from Belgium and the Netherlands, assembled in the Bavarian town of Oberviechtach on Thursday for deployment to Lithuania, according to Europe-based media reports.

here we go again?

Posted by: jfl | Jan 20 2017 14:40 utc | 257


What is the baltics really? What is Poland? More and more it seems to be pure bricks of US and warmongers, and its not that they protest, no they WANT to be bricks. And then they whine about bad relations with Russia. JEsus what a weird mentality.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 20 2017 16:15 utc | 258

@ Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 20, 2017 11:15:00 AM | 260

There is simply no way to say this politely, regarding the forgotten, facts. Poland and the Baltic states had their own virulant variants of the Ukrainian OUN type of rabid neo-fascist ideology prior to and especially during WWII. They were suppressed, became end of war displaced persons, and many were processed as for:

January 19, 2017
"The DNC Emails Were Leaked" Obama Takes Parting Shot At Brennan, Clapper, Clinton" Post 13

And just as clarified in the above post, they also were sponsored, hosted, held in deep cover, through multiple generations, in reserve for future usage, re the Baltic States post the USSR collapse, and especially so at an exponentially accelerated rate over the last eight years ... as Agents-of-Influence(AOI) and to infiltrate and pollute key institutions and positions of authority & power ... :(

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 20 2017 16:30 utc | 259


When Oz was bullied by East timor, whom did howard run to ?
papa Cheney , the 'fixer' !

*One might have thought such a small country with so difficult a history might have been granted a few years of innocence as it finally achieved sovereignty. But no. The dread hand of American hegemony, corporate as well as diplomatic, was already in action, squeezing the embryo in the womb.

Unlike Bosnia, Cambodia, Haiti and Kosovo, where the UN recently had or still has advisory or administrative missions, East Timor is rich.

It has large oil and gas reserves under the sea which separates the country from Australia. Rare among small developing states, East Timor ought to be able to stand on its own feet and avoid foreign debt.

So, one of the first decisions the UN dministration took when it arrived in Dili in 1999 to help to prepare the country for independence was to open negotiations with Australia on a new energy treaty on East Timor's behalf. It could have waited and left the issue for the Timorese to handle after independence. But UN officials felt they had to go forward, even though it put the UN in a unique position of sitting as an adversary across the table from a sovereign government, Australia, which is a wealthy and powerful member of the UN system.

The UN put up a tough fight to get a better deal from Australia and the mighty oil companies, including US-based Phillips Petroleum, than the one which Indonesia had made years earlier. The surprise came last year when the US started warning East Timor not to push Australia too hard [sic] shortly after Vice-President Dick Cheney had received Australian representatives in his Washington office. Mr Cheney is, of course, an oil-man with continuing contacts with businessmen but here he was, using the weight of his governmental position, to interfere in discussions between the UN and a foreign government.*

Posted by: denk | Jan 20 2017 16:59 utc | 260

sorry if i was rude
just check hat happened in Gambia since the week of the election on a daily basis.
the guy initially accepted the results, and then changed his mind (senile?) and started to threat the electoral committee. then he progressively became more and more aggressive.
(i would have been happy people stand against Ali Bongo in Gabon as strongly as in Gambia, but Gabon is the nod of all the France-Africa money and the 'international community' quickly dropped the opposition, although they certainly won)
(same goes for Kabila, who holds, negociation after negociation, but we all know why: batteries)

In Gambia, we may see a small miracle as what happened in Senegal during the so called Arab Spring, when they managed to get rid of Wade and Sons without a bullet.
No one even in his own staff is supporting Jammeh.

Posted by: Mina | Jan 20 2017 18:07 utc | 261

Plane carrying Brazil Supreme Court judge Teori Zavascki crashes into sea
"Sao Paulo: Brazilian Supreme Court Justice Teori Zavascki was killed in a plane crash on Thursday, raising questions about who will take over his investigation into dozens of politicians in the country's biggest ever corruption scandal."

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 20 2017 18:19 utc | 262

- In 2012 the CIA was involved in transporting libyan weapons to the "moderate" rebels in Syria. On 11 september 2012 an attack on the US consulate in Benghazi was launched and it killed - among others - ambassador Stevens.

- Later that year, after the presidential elections, CIA director David Petraeus was forced to resign because he had a relationship/affair with one Paula Broadwell. That's (fairly) well known. But former CIA analyst Ray McGovern has evidence that there was another reason why Petraeus was forced to resign. And that reason was that the White House held him responsible for the mess & the attacks in Benghazi earlier that year.

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 20 2017 18:31 utc | 263

The"UKRAINE ON FIRE" documentary by Oliver Stone is finally available in English!

Thanks Vlædimør!

Posted by: Akira | Jan 20 2017 22:53 utc | 264

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