Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 05, 2017

Open Thread 2017-01

News & views ...

Posted by b on January 5, 2017 at 19:22 UTC | Permalink

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Russia has deployed a lot of new equipment in the last few years. The Yars missile some years back.
I generally check the Russian MOD blurb and then look for pentagon/thinktank type reports and analysis on new deployments
The US has a huge arsenal of expensive toys for terrorising small countries but Russia has concentrated on strategic defence and deterrence/offence. It will take some time for the US to catch up.
Then there is the calibre cruise missile which seemed to take the US by surprise when Russia gave a demo. What can it be launched from and where can it be launched from.

What are your thoughts on how the US would have gone about attacking Syria and getting around the overlapping S-300 S400 systems plus the upgraded Syrian systems? From what I can make out, Russia deploys a layered defence system. Pantsir S has been in Syria for some time, and Russia moved some in to protect the S-400 and I would take it the S-300. A few months ago I read Russia had also deployed a system to protect its SAM sites from swarming attacks.
I would guess these would also be in Syria.
As you say, Russia took a risk, but think they only took that risk when they believed they had suitable deterrent. I think they would have preferred more time but beggars can't be choosers

@Debsisdead 184
Yes you are right. It is a couple of years since I looked up Murdoch's background and had mixed it up with another background I looked up at that time.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 10 2017 1:58 utc | 201


is it so hard to imagine the baltics and germany in the same shape as syria, and libya, and ukraine? it could happen overnight. i guess it can't happen 'over here'?

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 2:03 utc | 202

Emboldened by washington, Modi and co are getting swollen heads these days, now they even talk about a two front war with china/pak, even while modi's mentor uncle hubris himself is ditching a two front scenario with russia/china for a dedicated attack on china. ! [0]

Historically China has always been at the receiving end of anglo/indian assaults ever since the days of the infamous rape of peking by the eight nations aliance. [1]
in the 1962 usa/ussr instigated border clash, China could've recovered territory robbed by the brits in 1903 after routing the indians, but beijing ordered a voluntary retreat instead. All indian pow were given vip treatments , then released with their rifles, artilleries cleaned and oiled ! Even the perennial sinophobes in london had to grudingly concede, *This must be the first time in modern history that a great power didnt capitalise on victory in the battlefield !* [2]
if beijing had figured that such generous gesture would buy them good will and dampen Delhi's belligerence they were sorely mistaken !

No sooner than the indian pow returned when bharat already declared its committment with washington to 'contain' china and the rest is history !

during the 50*s the chinese had TWO swords of Damocles hanging over their heads from the usa/ussr. Everyday they went to bed wondering if they'd see the next sun rise.
mao and co decided that this couldnt go on , as marshall chen yi put it, 'We must have the bomb even if it mean folks going around without their pants ' !
China got its first abomb in 1960 and prompty declared the 'no first use' principle. For the next two decades China had a nuclear monopoly over india but never once had beijing threatened delhi with nuclear blackmail. Likewise, china had a good head start in missile program with a clear aim as deterrence against murkka, never once did it boast about its missile superiority over india, let alone issuing malicious threat on indian cities !

In stark contrast, india never bothered to conceal the offensive nature of its missile program, every stage was flagged by a chinese target it could hit, prithvi 1 for Guanzhou, prithvi 2 for shanghai, agni for harbin , it's dubbed the 'china killer' no less !

iN another forum, one indian put it cheekily to a chinese, 'yeah you keep you eyes on the murkkans and we keep our eyes on you.' !
For what may i ask ?
If china had no wish to attack india during the three decades beijing enjoyed nuclear monopoly , why'd the chinese do it now that india has its 'china killer' and backed by the entire 'international community', led by the world's sole hyper power ???
i see no sign of xi and co gone bonkers, more like modi and gang are speaking with forked tongues, like fellow comprador Abe.
Thats what you get for fellating uncle scam......*forked tongue* !
modi and gang is a disgrace to the indians north american name sake, wasnt chief 'crazy horse' the one who observed that 'pale face speak with forked tongues'. !



[modi and abe's forebears were right in the thick ot it from day 1]

some indians cheekily tell some chinese posters in a forum'
*sure you won the war but we kept the land hhhhhhh*

Posted by: denk | Jan 10 2017 2:34 utc | 203

@ Peter AU | Jan 9, 2017 8:58:46 PM | 201

Am assuming you are addressing the post to me ?

What you say re RF focusing on strategic force multipliers for Strategic defense/offense/deterrence is precisely correct. RF has lost well over a decade in comparative capabilities, let alone quantities, excluding Nuclear, of military materiel. Even more important is Logistics/manufacturing/design/maintenance facilities in support and even more important again are the crews/operators, their quality of training/doctrines/operational experience. Especially, the last. Personnel, re the latter, not hardware, is the crucial factor - see Saudia vs Yemen (Houthis) conflict ;)

RF also has limited funds, resources, manufacturing facilities & Bureau as result of the instant severance of such State assets distributed throughout the the wider USSR, OUTSIDE the Russian federation, at the time of the collapse of the USSR. This has still, even now, not been overcome.

He who would defend everything, defends nothin'!
- Sun Tzu

RF knows this thru bitter national experience throughout the war on the Easter Front in WWII. The same imperatives then are also totally relevant today. No wastage, only the most crucial, demonstrable, critical defensive assets to recieve major funding, form a limited budget.

What are your thoughts on how the US would have gone about attacking Syria and getting around the overlapping S-300 S400 systems plus the upgraded Syrian systems? From what I can make out, Russia deploys a layered defence system. Pantsir S has been in Syria for some time, and Russia moved some in to protect the S-400 and I would take it the S-300. A few months ago I read Russia had also deployed a system to protect its SAM sites from swarming attacks.
I would guess these would also be in Syria.

It is difficult to adequately describe in just a few words, without illustrations, non-interpersonally, however, imagine the territory of the areas under control, primarily Central and Eastern Syria. Then overlap it with a few (never singular) interlocking/partially over-lappping circles of ~400-500Km in diameter. These are the S-400 and Antey 2500/S300VM Air-Defence(DA)/Anti-Ballistic-Missile(ABM)/Anti-Cruise Missile(ACM) systems, par excellence, creating the overall interlocking, partially overlapping, mutually supporting, 'Domes' of air/missile denial, together forming a virtual overall, 'Dome'.

Then lay a new series of smaller circles over the above, a layer of again multiple circles also mutually partially overlapping, with diameters of ~80-120Km. These are the Pantsir and other intermediate/medium AD/ACM defense systems.

Then lay down a new series of smaller circles again, each centered on each of the S-400/Antey-2500 & Pantsir/ & other systems, again mutually partially overlapping each other, these circles will be ~5-30Km in diameter, being multi barreled light AD cannon/Manpad AD systems.

The Russians are supreme past masters of this, the Empire has noting that can compare nor effective doctrines. And all the above systems are proven, demonstrable, HIGH lethality (85% - 90% - 98%) depending on slant range, target type, & other factors.

To get a good feel for how this works, and how effectively at the Operational level or even Theater level, read n detail, including relevant internal links: Yom Kippur War. The Israeli's were finished, until saved by a rash decision by the Egyptian command to deploy forces too rapidly beyond the Air denial umbrella ...

Then read this, in full, and play close attention to the Analytical comments and weapon specifications: 3K81M/S-300VM/Antey-2500/SA-23. Coincidentally from Aus, and world renowned re it's area of AD analysis & peer-reviewed expertise, in the circles that count.

I'll only quote one line:

Rapidly deployable, high survivable, and highly lethal, these weapons are especially difficult to counter and require significant capabilities to robustly defeat. The US Air Force currently envisages the F-22A Raptor as the primary weapon used to defeat these capable systems.

It is important to note that no F/A-18 variant, nor the Joint Strike Fighter, were designed to penetrate the coverage of the S-300V/VM systems. The survivability of these aircraft will not be significantly better than that of legacy combat aircraft.

Now, as the Empire, would you risk your ultimate, most expensive, mythical, weapons system, en mass ? And therefore the prestige of your Empire, by dedicating your only asset with even a modest chance, the F-22. What if they are ... slaughtered ... what then ?! the wider consequences beyond Syria ? As I've said before, militarily we are bullies & cowards at heart ... ingrained thru generations ... thru our history.

That is what lays at the foundation of Putin's and the RF's carefully calibrated & calculated gambles with RF forces in support of Syria.

Enjoy many hours of reading FACTUAL analysis and data, as opposed to military materiel myths & propaganda, given your expressed interest. Oh, and the patriot systems, regardless of block No. or revision level, are a boondoggle fraud. The only thing the Empire has that even comes close is Standard Missile (SM3 variant) ... and Aegis has been repeatedly demonstrated as vulnerable/overwhelm-able/defeatable by near peer States.

My 2c is up, and I'm all outta change.

Cheers. ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 4:28 utc | 204

Thanks for the reply Outraged. I forgot to address you on my post. We seem to be on the same page regarding RU defensive systems.
In researching the S-400 some time ago, I found a thinktank/pentagon type report for the S-400. They thought that the F22 may, repeat may, be able to take out one system. Overlapping systems the f22 had no chance.
The only way I could think of for the US to defeat this was to send in cruise missiles on Syrian government sites, out of range of the close in defence until the 2500 and the S-400 were out of missiles. At this stage we start getting into strategic nukes.

Obama signed up for the dollars to upgrade the US nuke arsenal and Trump is the same. The US still has cold war era missiles that travel in a ballistic trajectory and can be shot down.

I think for the US the window has closed, but some of the nutters in power seem to think it is still open.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 10 2017 5:25 utc | 205

U.S. intelligence study warns of growing conflict risk

WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (Reuters) - The risk of conflicts between and within nations will increase over the next five years to levels not seen since the Cold War as global growth slows, the post-World War Two order erodes and anti-globalization fuels nationalism, said a U.S. intelligence report released on Monday...

The report - Global Trends: Paradox of Progress, sixth in a series of quadrennial studies by the U.S. National Intelligence Council (PDF download Link) (Note: Both sites are masked and MONITORED) (ie TOR &/or a VPN is your friend)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 5:50 utc | 206

@ Peter AU | Jan 10, 2017 12:25:28 AM | 205

Hence why I sought to explain and provided an applicable operational example of real world deployment. No weapons system can be considered in isolation (just specifications) of its doctrinal deployment in conjunction with other arms ... that's child level stuff, cowboys & indians crap ;)

The US still has cold war era missiles that travel in a ballistic trajectory and can be shot down.
I think for the US the window has closed, but some of the nutters in power seem to think it is still open.

Concur. And the same for the French and UK and Israeli nukes, too ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 6:04 utc | 207

Connected to recent deaths of a Greek diplomat and a Russian in Greece?

Could Turkey swing over to the Russian camp?, by Thierry Meyssan

I wonder what Hinckley (the scapegoat from Bushe's assassination attempt on Reagan) is up to?

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 10 2017 17:52 utc | 208

UK Parliamentary Leader: Israeli Diplomat Scandal ‘Not Worth Investigating’

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 10 2017 18:44 utc | 209


What do you expect of Hindustan, the blue monkey god worshippers, misogynist rape culture, classists and racists who make KKK look good, exceptionialists and intensely Mammonite bunko artists, flooding the Western world with their H1B Hindustanis by the 777-load, every day, 100,000s of them, taking away an estimated 98% of new high-tech jobs, and 56% of existing, forcing USAryans to train their Hindustani replacements, and moar on the way, graduating 1,000,000 'engineers' (sic) a year, they claim, yet their own India national audit found 83% of those new 'engineer's were 'irredeemably untrainable'! And you wonder why Western people pound their keyboards over Win 8 and Office 365 bloat-code, and why India itself is a total basket case with a rapidly collapsing looted economy, even by its own metrics.

You can see this issue best perhaps through the lens of another rigid culture, like the Taliban, or Orthodox Jewry, or new US Department of 'Justice' (sic) head Jeff Sessions, champion of 'religious freedoms', the right to deny another person their humanity because it 'offends the religious sensibilities', that is, WHITE Xtian sensibilities. If a black person were to deny service to a white cracker, they would be arrested and die of unknown causes on the way to booking. If a muslim person were to deny service to a white cracker, they would be gitmo'd. The America I grew up in has been destroyed by religious fundamentalism and rabbinicalism, and the Hindustanis are no exception.

"Bomb the gooks for Jesus, and let the Wogs take the hindmost!"

10 more days! It's a' comin'!! "If you like The Wall, you can bloody well Pay for it!"

And pay USAryans will, with a -$29 TRILLION debt ceiling, the zRINOim will burn through that in 4 years, and the SS and MC trusts funds, and the pension funds, then bone every USAryan by forcing them to accept Treasury bonds in return for their savings, EXACTLY what Modi did, offering fiat script 'gold bonds' to (India)ns, in return for their 24k gold jewelry savings.

When given a choice of loot or die in a collapsing tax revenue economy, Mil.Gov.Fed will always choose LOOT! What does the Mahabharata say? Whoooo, whoooo, whoooo!

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 10 2017 18:46 utc | 210

Dear chipnik @ | Jan 10, 2017 1:46:43 PM | 210

Hat-tip to Lozion ;) Much like TV Cooking Show magical 'dishes', this was something prepared, earlier. And since we are now onto page 3 past 200 count ...

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Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 19:24 utc | 211

Popcorn eaters will enjoy: this.

Seems that someone want the public to believe that Trump is "compromised"? 25th Amendment in play?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 10 2017 23:59 utc | 212

docs here buzzfeed pdf reader.

""The document was prepared for political opponents of Trump by a person who is understood to be a former British intelligence agent. It is not just unconfirmed: It includes some clear errors. The report misspells the name of one company, “Alpha Group,” throughout. It is Alfa Group. The report says the settlement of Barvikha, outside Moscow, is “reserved for the residences of the top leadership and their close associates.” It is not reserved for anyone, and is also populated by the very wealthy. The documents have circulated for months, and acquired a kind of legendary status among journalists, lawmakers, and intelligence officials who have seen them. Mother Jones writer David Corn referred to the documents in a late October column. Harry Reid spokesman Adam Jentleson tweeted Tuesday that the outgoing Senate Democratic leader had seen the documents before writing a public letter to FBI director James Comey about Trump’s ties to Russia. And CNN reported Tuesday that Arizona Republican John McCain a gave “full copy” of the memos to FBI Director James Comey on December 9, but that the FBI already had copies of many of the memos.

very odd -- they've been circulating for months, contain obvious errors .... sound like bunk and a 48 hour tempest in a teapot ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 0:44 utc | 213

@211, or, 'And since we are now onto page 3 past 200 count ...'

so you think this is right, or WRONG as you say, or right again ... or what, exactly?

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2017 0:45 utc | 214

Guardian says FBI demanded a FISA warrant to monitor the Trump campaign. -- warrant \\ denied .

""The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.""

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 1:29 utc | 215

@ Susan Sunflower | Jan 10, 2017 7:44:04 PM | 213

This has the stink of more OUN (Ukraine Hitlerite Fascists) affiliated types, deeply associated with Clinton camp/DNC/neocons and of course ~70 years of sponsorship by the OSS/SOE thence CIA & subsequently Five-Eyes nations from the earliest days of the Dulles Brothers ...

McCain and Graham, beholden to and mouthpieces for the OUN camp will be found to be implicated/associated with it, mark my words.

It is merely an element of a National/Global Psyops campaign, IMHO. We are being bombarded with bullshit and led around by the nose, and they clearly intend to throw so much fecal matter that eventually, given time and sublimanal memory, even the doubtful will say,'Yeah, but, there must be something to it?!'

@ jfl | Jan 10, 2017 7:45:52 PM | 214

have gone back and corrected those posted on both counts. This is the Open Thread, is it not ? ;)
Cannot by precedence and definition, be OT ... unless b list a restraint in the Header/Title (ie No US Election news) ... and at this count number/page depth never seen by the casual/or drop-in .... Etiquette is not breached & my conscience and ethics are placid in regards to it.

Did you checkout the Internet Archive link, been doin' it's thing since 19996, a poorly known of forensic investigation/intelligence, research and lost digital resource tool ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 1:51 utc | 216

@203 , denk

The eight nations were

- the Empire of Japan,
- the Russian Empire,
- the British Empire,
- the French Third Republic,
- the United States,
- the German Empire,
- the Kingdom of Italy and
- the Austro-Hungarian Empire,

as i'm sure you are aware.

don't see the indians listed there. in fact, they too, were under the thumbs of the western imperialists. the guy in your picture - there are nine, not eight, right? - is some poor indian - a sikh? - whose gone along with the brits to get along.

there were plenty in china who did the same thing.

i might have you wrong, but you seem to imply that imperialism is somehow, 'racial', or cultural. and that some 'races'/cultures are immune.

i'm no commie but i believe that economic analysis tells us a lot. that those who strive for more are never satisfied, and that the richer they get the greater their 'requirements' - the greater their greed.

the han chinese have been the 'bad guys' to the the people of the middle kingdom, and the rich to the poor regardless of ethnicity, for thousands of years.

i think that mao and the commies in china were and are a light to the world, but i think the dominance of the rich there is/is-being restored as we speak. goes to great - absurd - lengths to seperate 'inessentials' like racism from their classist dogma, and there is something there.

but 'sociology'/'political science' are not sciences. like the postman who delivers his own mail, we need to keep our perspective. we are part of the group we're trying to analyse.

the usa is without a doubt the biggest, baddest imperialist on the planet right now, and its imperialism is excused/enabled by it twisted racism and accompanying theology.

but there have been others before and there will be others hereafter, if a change does not come.

i think the changing the structure of civil society, bottom up, is our only hope.

racism - in its broadest sense, incorporating 'chosen-ness' or exceptionalism or whatever - is part of the problem, not of the solution. or so it seems to me anyway.

thanks for banging away at imperialism at any rate. this is a 'good' example of how nationalism enables authoritarianism and authoritarianism enables continued minority rule in ... pick your nation ... india, this time.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2017 2:29 utc | 217

Watch tomorrow, 11 January 2017 at 11:00 AM Donald Trump holds his first Press Conference first as President-elect. I know of one Alt-Media outfit invited to attend. I am sure there are others Alt-medias in the invite.

~ ~ ~ ~

Not sure with DJT we've dodged WW111. In his cabinet-nominees is Gen. James "Mad Dog" Mattis

Daily Caller 5:32 PM 01/09/2017

Mattis Wanted To Strike Iran In Retaliation For Killing US Troops, Obama Denied Him

Iranian-supplied rockets killed as many as 15 U.S. troops per month in Iraq in the summer of 2011, and Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis had a plan to retaliate. The Obama administration denied his request.

~ ~ ~ ~
So it was not just Hillary who wanted to bomb Iran. In 2017, add to the mix, Trump thinks the Iran deal is unfair and has embraced Israel first…we'll move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. No puzzle, NetanYahoo is happy with Trump's cabinet picks and with Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law elevated to senior advisor. Kushner promoted and donated to construction of the Settlements.

We should be VERY worried:\\\ Let me add this - Israel is a likely candidate that did the leaks.

Why Not? Obozo & Hillary did meddle in Nettayahoo’s re-election.

A proposition posted at ZH recounts the many direct actions:

Is Israel, Not Russia, To Blame For Hillary's Election Loss?

[.] "The intelligence report found “Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.” Let’s consider other possibilities.

Israel to Blame for Hillary’s Election Loss?

Please consider the possibility that it was not Russia, but rather Israel, that was behind the damning release of information by Wikileaks.
Before anyone hyperventilates, I am not saying Israel was responsible. Nor am I stating Russia was not responsible. I am simply going to present “evidence” in the same fashion as the intelligence report did regarding allegations, innuendo, and a smear campaign aimed at news agency RT.

Reasons Why Israel May Have Preferred Trump Over Hillary

1 Hillary was Obama’s Secretary of State in a period of strained diplomatic relations with Israel. As Obama’s Secretary of State, Hillary called for a settlement freeze in 2009.
2 Hillary supported an Iran nuclear deal hugely unpopular with pro-Israel advocates and more importantly, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
3 CNN Transcripts from 2014 provide this interesting Hillary Quote: “The continuing settlements which have been denounced by successive American administrations on both sides of the aisle are clearly a terrible signal to send if at the same time you claim you’re looking for a two-state solution. Now when I was negotiating and I had been able to put together three face-to-face meetings between Netanyahu and Abbas, it was clear that if we were working off the 67 borders which was our stated position that President Obama had outlined, some of the settlements would be within any reasonable drawing of borders for Israel. But a number of them would not. And those that would not would have to be either dismantled or live under Palestinian rule.”
4 August 5, 2016, Breitbart disclosed Hillary Clinton’s damaging Private Emails About Israel.
5 On May 17, 2016: The Intercept reported Hillary Clinton Wasn’t Always This One-Sided on Israel

Intercept Snips

Hillary Clinton the first lady embraced the wife of the leader of the Palestinian movement.

First lady Hillary Clinton went off script during a 1998 satellite address to a group of Israeli and Palestinian teens meeting as part of the organization Seeds of Peace.

“I think that it will be in the long-term interest of the Middle East for Palestine to be a state, to be a state that is responsible for its citizens’ well-being, a state that has responsibility for providing education and health care and economic opportunity to its citizens,” she said, responding to a question about why she had referred to “Palestine,” a country that does not yet exist.

In Israel, the leader of the Likud Party, Uzi Landau, denounced Clinton’s remarks as “a glaring mistake.”[.]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The chosen ones who may not be investigated or sanctioned. And Trump is Prez of that sliver of land on the Medditterean. Greater Israel project fast forward.
Israel, USA’s best ally. Is there a “Report” on the USS Liberty or their intercepts of WH communications? Just for starters! Oh my bad on the communications thingy. In recent years, no need to intercept, they are gifted.

Posted by: likklemore | Jan 11 2017 2:49 utc | 218

Banning cash in vassal states of the Empire, such as India, is a huge issue because it's been being enforced as a way to slow down the collapse of the U$D as the world reserve currency - people must use it in the black market instead of their national currencies.

Posted by: ProPeace | Jan 11 2017 2:55 utc | 219

@ jfl | Jan 10, 2017 9:29:38 PM | 217

All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers.

- Francois Fenelon

To paraphrase for the 21st century with accentuation:

All wars are civil wars, for all men & women are but brothers & sisters, as all humans are relatives within a single family, known as, humanity, on Terra.

- Outraged

The below unabridged quote and context can also be found in the above link:

A people is no less a member of the human race, which is society as a whole, than a family is a member of a particular nation. Each individual owes incomparably more to the human race, which is the great fatherland, than to the particular country in which he was born. As a family is to the nation, so is the nation to the universal commonweal; wherefore it is infinitely more harmful for nation to wrong nation, than for family to wrong family. To abandon the sentiment of humanity is not merely to renounce civilization and to relapse into barbarism, it is to share in the blindness of the most brutish brigands and savages; it is to be a man no longer, but a cannibal.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 3:08 utc | 220

@216, or

peace, brother. i'm not calling you on being off-topic but on confusion ... maybe it's my own.

i believe you first said that when posts rolloff the bottom of the site page, the home page, that comments on pages that extend the original page to include comments in excess of 'x', where x = 100 at moa, are trashed, hence, are no longer available.

then, i believe, you said that no, that was not the case, that it had been at one time but was no longer.

now it seems that you believe the disappearing comments are still a fact, but take place on the third page? when x > 200?

i'm just confused.

if i scroll down to the bottom of the moa home page, hit next to get its predecessor, and then click on December 15, 2016 The "Elite" Coup Of 2016 it is still there - with its reference to andrea chalupa, which ties in nicely with 'intelligence report on russian influence is a flop', Richard Steven Hack @202 elucidating the role of the ukrainian nationalists in the failed dnc/cia coup against tee-rump - as are its second and third pages, the latter with comments 201-260.

so i think that comments beyond the 1st page do not seem to disappear at all, although i have not dug up a thread with more than 300 comments to check that out.

is this what you believe as well, or have i missed your point in my experiment.

it is true that it is hard to link to a comment that lies beyond the first page. i have found that i must, for instance, copy the url in the location window in my browser ...

.. then copy the url of the comment in question (202 in this case) ...

... and the substitute what's after the '#' in the first with what's after the '#' in the second ...

... to link to a comment on a page beyond the first. this seems to be a zero-day bug in typepad's code.

i hope i haven't just added to the confusion.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2017 3:25 utc | 221

221, or

thanks for the link to François Fénelon. the adventures of telemachus, from i look forward to reading it. trying to keep up with the 18th century.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2017 3:40 utc | 222

@ jfl | Jan 10, 2017 10:25:00 PM | 221

To be explicit beyond doubt (hopefully):

Due to my failing to re-verify against memory, it had been at one time but is no longer the case, at all, regardless of page no. or post count (re disappearing posts beyond first page).

Yes, linking to a post other than on the first page, is a still current, longstanding bug.

Explained above my considerations re publishing the post.

Peace. Salaam. Shalom.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 3:44 utc | 223


b never writes about germany. .... what about the europeans? the war is going to be fought in your front yards! wars have been known to start by 'accident', you'll remember ...

I've stop posting, there not much I can add mostly stale news and repeats but lurk instead. You are correct b never writes about Germany and the dictator Merkel, which in my opinions equally as evils as Obomo... Beside, I'm waiting for Obomo to pardons Killary, the rest of evils doers and himself before he step down.. Cheers.

OJS -> The Original Jack Smith

Posted by: OJS | Jan 11 2017 3:52 utc | 224

@ b @ all & followup to 213, 215 & 216

They have now escalated to the Nth degree and Gone Full Postal and surprise, surprise, surprise, McCain is at the center of it, as surmised.

FBI chief given dossier by John McCain alleging secret Trump-Russia contacts

Russian intelligence alleged to have compromising material on Trump
Unverified reports were drawn up by western ex-counter-intelligence official

My assessment, in review of all known events and associations/links/interests/lobbying/corruption, is we are now looking at an ongoing reactionary Deep State counter-coup against President-elect Trump (and no, I'm no fan whatsoever), and it will only get much, much worse from here on ...

Open Corporate Fascism by the Deep State.

Where is our Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler of 1933 fame when we need his kind most ?

Turn the page & move on. Look forward, do not look back. Forget ... forget ... forget ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 4:15 utc | 225

yes, I just saw that McCain was the recipient of the report and conduit to the FBI ... is he really -- in utter desperation -- putting his reputation on the line as if his over-involvement had not already compromised him up to his eyebrows. Hopefully, McCain is more than willing to die on the neocon cross, no matter how much he may hope he will come out on top...

m Guardian:

One report, dated June 2016, claims that the Kremlin has been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump for at least five years, with the aim of encouraging “splits and divisions in western alliance”.

It claims that Trump had declined “various sweetener real estate deals offered him in Russia” especially in developments linked to the 2018 World Cup finals but that “he and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals.”

Most explosively, the report alleges: “FSB has compromised Trump through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him.” The president-elect has not responded to the allegations.

Here's another summary ...

Techcruch: memos allege trump's lawyer helped orchestrate russian hacking.

Maybe McCain will self-destruct .... that would be a blessing on the world ...

Manafort's mentioned tooo ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 4:42 utc | 226


The document is a total farce. Classified Confidential ?! It's little more than toilet paper ...

No true professional Intelligence Analyst would ever write even just the contents of the first few paragraphs. The language is political partisan, and reveals the ideology of the writer and patrons beyond doubt.


Russian regime (Comment: FFS!)

So far trump has declined sweeteners (Comment: An unprovable slander based on an unprovable negative)

... including his democratic rivals ... (Comment: They are the Democrats, only an ignorant fool or rabid partisan would use such language)

And it doesn't get any better.

This is grade sccholl child leevl fraud. I say again, NO PROFESSIONAL INTELLIGENCE ANALYST or OPERATIVE would ever write this laughable now classified, docu. Oh, and who breached National SEcurity in releasing it to the public and previously covertly distributing it to support an overrall Psyop campaign.


This is yet another OUN/CIA fiction, and utter pulp & dross.

From the January 03, 2017 thread: U.S./UK Paid "White Helmets" Help Blocking Water To 5 Million Thirsty Syrians (many relevant posts there):

@ Yonatan | Jan 4, 2017 6:54:58 AM | 65

U.S. Sen. John McCain’s remarks to Ukrainian troops in Mariupol on Dec. 31.


Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you dear Ukrainian friends, especially those are serving in uniform away from their homes and their families, serving this nation. And to the wounded and to those families of those who have already sacrificed — our thanks, our gratitude, our prayers. We will never ever forget you.

What I have seen is cooperation between our two countries so that Ukraine can have a safe and secure border, which is the right of every nation. Our message tonight is that in 2017, we will defeat the invaders and send them back where they came from. And to Vladimir Putin, you will never defeat the Ukrainian people and deprive them of their independence and freedom. I thank all of you for your service. I send the message from the American people: We are with you, your fight is our fight, and we will win together.”

Apparently he's now setting policy for the president-elect, or thinks he is ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 4, 2017 7:20:41 AM | 70

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 4:54 utc | 227

oh, yeah ... and over at Salon they're want to try Trump for Treason (just like last week) ...
The Lawyer who set up the "deal" says he has never been to Prague


oh please, let McCain be exposed for the reckless and rabid dog he really is ....

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 4:57 utc | 228

@ Susan 226

Forget summaries, here's the direct link to the full downloadable PDF of the ENTIRE document (35 pages) ... it's a sad partisan hubristic facile ... ArrrgH! adjectives fail me ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 5:02 utc | 229

my internet speed is too slow ... I got to page 10 .... but as far as I can tell a lot of folks stopped and the "golden showers" hotel story ....

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 5:05 utc | 230

Dammit I felt sure the 'great smoking gun report' had an israeli author. My certainty was based upon my prior knowledge of englander intelligence operations which always leak like a sieve - chaps have one too many at a dinner party or over lunch at the club and suddenly the whole world knows what is going down.
I can only surmise that sir Jehoshaphat Cat must've severed all connection with former MI6 and Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) colleagues when he split to New York for the big salary.
The most intriguing issue about this document is the way it became pretty much a vanity publication for it's author. Initially commissioned as a piece of oppo research by a republican contender for the nomination ( 5 to 2 Jeb Bush, Chris Christie is still on 7's grab a piece of that if you can) once the nominee who commissioned read the writing on the wall and withdrew from the race, the report hadn't even been prepared in draft form. That didn't stop the mysterious englander author, the aforesaid Sir Jehoshaphat Cat from hawking it round the DNC until he found a buyer. Then not content with the ClintonInc response (they weren't interested in something so complex as victory was in the bag) Sir Jehoshaphat Cat began sending copies off to anyone and everyone whose email address he knew.

This is the hitherto 'secret' evidence one old spy's rantings. I'm genuinely surprised, nay shocked /snark that none of the media outlets promoting it have drawn their readers attention to the fact that as a former MI6 honcho, this fellow would have spent his entire career seeing russians under the couch, and perhaps that has disturbed his objectivity. Anyway if the author isn't israeli, but is in fact an englander, it is unlikely he will be a four by two since the englanders rarely let the duskier types get to the top of their Secret Intelligence Service.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 11 2017 5:08 utc | 231

@ Susan ... do you download know someone who downloads torrent files ? I could source a torrent file so you could download a copy no matter how slow your link. Your call.

They're imploding. The only 3 agencies that could be coerced to produced the Hack Docu/Non-Assessment, was actually a counter-revolt farce given it's contents.

They're so full of desperation & malice, reaching for straws having covertly circulated and then released this ... drivel.

I fear it will only get worse ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 5:12 utc | 232

Unless this report was written and/or fabricated at McCain's direction.... he's got talented and powerful friends in high places ... the sorts of friends who have access to cold-war retirees eager to "help the cause in any way necessary" ...

I recall vaguely hearing about someone very much like this guy, maybe a month ago, and just thought he was a someone who'd passed some point of not-caring ... because he needed to "save the world" from ... iirc Putin... prolly some other nutjob.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 5:22 utc | 233

@ Susan & Debs the deeper down the insane rabbit hole of the writers of this laughable document the worse it gets ...


2. Given YANUKOVYCH's (unimpressive) red in covering up h corrupt tracks in the past, PUTIN and others in the Russian leadership were sce about the ex-Ukrainain president's reassurances on this as relating to MANAFORT.

Notice the Ukrainian-anglicized spelling of Yanukovich ? Such conversations are beyond the access of the most senior executive long term deep cover mole ... and would never be released ... under any classification ... EVER.

This will go down in history as the greatest and most amateurish falsified slander since the Tzarist Secret Police fabricated the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I shit you not!

McCain is an idiotic, insane, bought & paid for FOOL! without doubt.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 5:26 utc | 234

Reposting - fixed:


2. Given YANUKOVYCH's (unimpressive) record in covering up his own corrupt tracks in the past, PUTIN and others in the Russian leadership were sceptical about the ex-Ukrainain president's reassurances on this as relating to MANAFORT.

It's an OUN ratbag/nutjob. No doubt whatsoever. 1000% certain.

Notice the Ukrainian-anglicized spelling of Yanukovich ? Such conversations are beyond the access of the most senior executive long term deep cover mole ... and would never be released ... under any classification ... EVER.

This will go down in history as the greatest and most amateurish falsified slander since the Tzarist Secret Police fabricated the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I shit you not!

McCain is an idiotic, insane, bought & paid for FOOL! without doubt.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 5:31 utc | 235

I have in the past ... but this isn't really worthy of all that effort because the scenario I foresee is Comey/Lynch/Obama having to "share" their analysis of this document ...
"Maybe I'm naïve" but I think if the details surrounding the allegations of this document checked out, Comey/Lynch/Obama would have acted -- or -- it would !!somehow!! have been leaked to the public sooner ...

Who leaked this government document NOW is my "mystery" ... I think I'll pass on watching how Hillary supporters manage their disappointment.

Manafort resigned in mid-August ... and in late September there were reports that an indictment for tax evasion was imminent ... crickets.
Team Clinton/Obama raised the specter of "fake news" and yet most of the "fake news" I've seen alleged either seems to have their fingerprints on it or they amplified the story by repeating it. Now this ... (It's not like McCain isn't BFF with Clinton and Biden and god knows who else -- I think he's someone you definitely want on your Christmas Card list, because to be on his shit list would be not.a.good.thing.)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 5:36 utc | 236

MoAers, barflies: LYAO
@ 213; 225

Appears the “Intel guys and gals were punked…The Golden Showers tale was sent as a hoax as in Fake. BuzzFeed CNN, McStain and southern belle, Graham caught again.

Here Is The Full 35-Page Report Alleging Trump Was "Cultivated, Supported And Assisted" By Russia

As reported moments ago, CNN is leading with a story about a 35-page dossier compiled by a former member of British intelligence, which had been distilled into a 2-page appendix presented to Trump last Friday by the US intel community, and which contains "explosive, but unverified, allegations" that the Russian government has been "cultivating, supporting and assisting" President-elect Donald Trump for at least 5 years and "endorsed by Putin" gained compromising information about him, with the aim of "encouraging splits and divisions in the western alliance."

BUT, move along there is more … the fabrication of the 35 page dossier… ZH finds:
4Chan Claims To Have Fabricated Anti-Trump Report As A Hoax

In a story that is getting more surreal by the minute, a post on 4Chan now claims that the infamous "golden showers" scene in the unverified 35-page dossier, allegedly compiled by a British intelligence officer, was a hoax and fabricated by a member of the chatboard as "fanfiction", then sent to Rick Wilson, who proceeded to send it to the CIA, which then put it in their official classified intelligence report on the election.
Here is 4Chan's explanation of how the story came to light:

>/pol/acks mailed fanfiction to anti-trump pundit Rick Wilson about trump making people piss on a bed obama slept in
>he thought it was real and gave it to the CIA
>the central intelligence agency of the united states of america put this in their official classified intelligence report on russian involvement in the election
>donald trump and obama have both read this pol/acks fanfiction
>the cia has concluded that the russian plans to blackmail trump with this story we made up
just let that sink in what we have become.

Part of the Summary:
On january 10, Buzzfeed posted a story under the byline of Ken Bensinger, Mark Schoofs and Miriam elder titled “these reports Allege Trump Has Deep Ties To Russia” and posted a link to a document alleging, among other things, that russia has been cultivating trump for 5+ years, that trump has been in constant contact with the kremlin for information on his opponents, and perhaps most inflammatory, that there are many recorded instances of blackmail of trump in sexual misconduct. A prominent claim is that trump rented the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel in moscow, where he knew that the Obamas had slept in; he them hired a number of prostitutes to perform a 'golden shower' (pissplay) on the bed and in the room.

The remarkable thing? It's all fake. And not only fake; it's a prank perpetuated by 4chan, on Rick Wilson himself. A post on 4chan on october 26 stated “mfw managed to convince CTR and certain (((journalists))) on Twitter there'll be an October surprise on Trump this Friday” along with a picture of a smug face with a hash name.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Are you surprised or shocked?

Posted by: likklemore | Jan 11 2017 5:39 utc | 237

Leaked by McCain, covertly distributed previously as part of a disinformation/influence Psyop sub-campaign, by, McCain & associates, and key DNC/Democrat identities.

Here's another example:

PUTIN personally unbothered about ALPHA's ...
My bolding(sic). Unbothered ?! Correct name is Alfa?! ... am RAOTFLMFAO!

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 5:44 utc | 238

@ likklemore | Jan 11, 2017 12:39:11 AM | 237

RAOTFLMFAO! LOL! RAOTFLMFAO! LOL! RAOTFLMFAO! LOL! ... am in so much pain from my sides splitting ... RAOTFLMFAO!


... TRUMP had participated in sex parties in the city too, but all direct witnesses to this recently had been 'silenced', ie bribedor coerced to disappear.

LOL! NO! You don't bribe or coerce someone to disappear ?! ... you disappear them, literally ... it's called, 'wet work'. RAOTFLMAO!

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 5:55 utc | 239

good night all -- yes, it's hilarious and revolting ... sounds like this story isn't even going to last until morning ...

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 5:55 utc | 240

the remaining question is WHO leaked the FBI's files to CNN and how did Buzzfeed get their copy ... one leak or two ... one leaker or two ... oh and how aggressive will anyone be about "finding the leaker" ... (gohs, I hope it was McCain and they quickly nail him to that cross ... such a malignant war mongerer)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 11 2017 5:59 utc | 241

Priceless comment on 4chan ('That's senior senator McCain to you, punk! OMG LOL!:

Hook, line aaaaand sinker, bitchez!

I'm dying from laughter here! 4chan trolls an establishment insider, who then peddles it to McCain, who then bites down hard. McCain swallows the hook so deeply into his gut that it passes through his digestive system intact. With the hook, line and sinker dangling from McCain's anus, he comes into view of the bottom-feeding CIA. The CIA can't resist, bites down even harder and runs with it, and doesn't slow down until most of the line has spooled off the reel.

It'll make a hell of a photo back at the boat dock.

And then the DNC/Democrats/neocons spliced the line with another reel and kept on running ... and the expected MSM presstitutes grabbed it, spliced another reel, and without any attempt at verification whatsoever ... kept on running ... LOL

RAOTFLMFAO! Oh, the pain, the pain, so bad, yet so good ... hahahahahaha

Called it when first read the very first sentence of the, so called, classified document ... OMG.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 6:25 utc | 242

@ all

This thread is a perfect comparative case study of the 'Matrix' (unreality) we who are 'aware', live in.

Compare the instant, wall-to-wall, constantly rolling WORLDWIDE media coverage of this 4chan inspired total #FakeNews farce of a prank, against the complete and total silence and ZERO, zilch, nada, coverage of the ACTUAL footage of Israeli Spy Mosat, Intelligence Officer under Official Diplomatic Cover (OC) committing with his demonstrated agent/source, UK government civil servant, Strizolli, especially in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the EU MSM.

Draw your own conclusions re representative western democracies (Illusion!) and the demonstrable FRAUD of an unprofessional, unethical, completely utterly suborned, bought & paid for pwned MSM. Literally, of ANY KIND of Free Press, whatsoever ...

QED, I rest my case.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 7:05 utc | 243

remember al jazeera and the british [CL]FI?

george galloway youtube. don't know if it'll get traction in britain. certainly not among the political class, but the people who elected corbyn ought to note it and remember it. i hope the actual al jazeera 'feature' is not stillborn.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2017 7:53 utc | 244

Cant. Stop. Laughing. Waiting for the NYT amd WaPo to pick up on key words 'golden shower', 'prostitutes' & 'Trump' and run this one front page regardless. F..king trash.

4chan fanfiction...corporate media...very hard to tell the two apart with the naked eye.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 11 2017 8:20 utc | 245

@ OJS -> The Original Jack Smith - OJS | Jan 10, 2017 10:52:57 PM | 224 & jfl

Please, cut b some slack, guys.

b, is unable, cannot post on the topics you mention, without great risk.

IMHO, b, as is reasonably widely known, is a German citizen, living and working in Germany. If he were to regularly cover controversial issues in Germany itself in any depth, and to a lesser degree within the EU, he would immediately attract the ongoing undue attention of the German Internal Intelligence service, Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (BfV): the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution: thier domestic intelligence, their equivalent of the FBI or UK's MI5.

Given the powers and laws available to them, as for US, UK, and AUS, it would be used as an excuse to at least suppress/silence him on behalf of the Empire, or worse ...

IMHO, hence why b sticks to 'external' stories ... so to speak ...

Unprovable, though please do carefully consider what I've explained, there is only so much risk any of us can take or would reasonably consider acceptable.

All IMHO, no-one can speak for b, other than himself, tho somethings some of us can never say, or likely would directly, ourselves ... all IMHO. YMMV

Peace. Salaam. Shalom.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 8:27 utc | 246


This is getting way out of hand, this is classic defamation now and Trump should create a team suing these sick people spreading these rumours about him. Disgusting to see the whole MSM spreading these fake-news, their intent is obviously to harm Trump as much as possible with lies and fake news.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 11 2017 8:40 utc | 247

@ jfl

Great link, he's onto it, and will not rest. The Israeli's and MI5 relentlessly sought to take him down for years, get him, unelected(sic). Do you remember him voluntarily attending a Congressional Star Chamber hearing as a Foreign citizen ? He totally pwned 'em over the #Fake Oil-for-Food travesty :

'I am, not now, nor have I ever been, an Oil Trader, etc'
The corrupt, fat and happy senators went into apoplectic shock and shut down their own questioning to silence him. LOL

Galloway is a highly principled and knowledgeable intellect paired to a political street-fighter who takes no prisoners nor suffers fools gladly.

FSM, I love him.

@ MadMax2 | Jan 11, 2017 3:20:46 AM | 245

Just do a google news search, for example, on 'trump russia compromising dossier' ... it's stratospheric and WORLDWIDE, and the MSM has been re-running variant stories every few hours, non-stop ... beyond belief.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 8:44 utc | 248

@ Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 10, 2017 12:25:28 AM | 205

The only way I could think of for the US to defeat this was to send in cruise missiles on Syrian government sites, out of range of the close in defence until the 2500 and the S-400 were out of missiles.

It is so difficult to cover this sort of topic non-interactively. :(

How can I put this. Wouldn't work. Not only do you have the mutually supporting and overlapping layers at an over-simplistically described defense in-depth of 3 levels, ALL of the monitoring, radar, and surveillance assets are fully integrated across all systems, and with other than temporary mobile deployments, connected by fiber optic cable and multiple real-time alternative secure comms backups. With secondary distributed alternate command HQ. Check the missile reload times and immediate reloads on ready status in the link. Under mass swarm attack ALL those missiles, at ready, can be replaced by the hot standby missile reload logistic stores/vehicles in close geographic co-location. Envisaged. Not going to happen.

The primary effect is that intermediate/medium systems such as Pantsir/etc do the majority of the work and have the point defense systems, Light AD Guns/Manpads both defend them (& S400/Antey2500) and as also last resort concurrently. Hence you cannot realistically exhaust the S400/Antey2500 systems missiles unless you sacrifice sufficient assets that ONLY they target, F-22/F-35/FA-18/AWACS/EW and so on ... not going to happen the way you have envisaged.

Does that help clarify ?


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 9:10 utc | 249

Sorry folks, cannot resist. And have an ample supply of popcorn at hand :)

The Guardian and many others repeat this paragraph virtually word-for-word in many of their 'articles' (toilet paper):

An official (Anonymous) in the US administration who spoke to the Guardian(or [fill-in-theblank]) described the source who wrote the intelligence report as consistently reliable, meticulous and well-informed, with a reputation for having extensive Russian contacts.
(Inserts in Italics and bold is mine)

LOL. Who was this anonymous official in the US administration so reliable and consistently accurate and therefore trusted completely to support un-verified dross ? The night shift basement janitor at Langley ?


People are going to go DOWN for this once Trump is our pseudo-king, POTUS. By FSM, bless her, he better have triple-vetted, repeatedly randomly re-deployed private security worth a damn, 'cause he isn't going to be able to rely on US State security services (SS/FBI/CIA) to keep him from taking a dirt nap.

Hope he drives a wooden stake through McCain, who he pointedly and correctly identified, as not a Hero.

Prost to all barflies, this virtual round of drinks is on me. LOL

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 9:40 utc | 250

Here's the Reddit 'MegaThread' Thread on this which captures the scope and scale of the lawsuits for defamation Trump may make another few $Billion out of ;)

Megathread: Intelligence report claims Russia has compromising information on Trump

Surprising, the New York Times (NYT)(Pravda(TRUTH!), our 'paper of record', must have treble-checked with their lawyers first, 'cause even tho they've published along with the rest of the wolf-pack, they explicitly refuse to publish the 'dossier' itself ... this is what they have to say:

In a brief interview in the Times newsroom on Tuesday evening, Dean Baquet, the executive editor of The Times, said the paper would not publish the document because the allegations were “totally unsubstantiated.”

“We, like others, investigated the allegations and haven’t corroborated them, and we felt we’re not in the business of publishing things we can’t stand by,” Mr. Baquet said.

Walking a very fine line indeed ... then why publish the commentary articles, hm ? Trying hard to have their cake and eat it too, one thinks ;)

And, some of those running with the wolves are starting to fall back from the pack, and ask, real questions ...

Did 4Chan Troll The CIA?

While literally no aspect of anything that was reported tonight by both BuzzFeed News and 4chan has been confirmed or verified, it is an odd coincidence that a 4chan post from prior to the election seems to match up with what was released on Tuesday.

Additionally, WikiLeaks says that the report published by BuzzFeed is "not an intelligence report" and that it is not consistent with the style of other reports.


Guess we'll have to wait and see if 4chan pulled off what is possibly the greatest troll game in internet history.

Well, that seems conclusive. After all, the previous #Fake Intelligence Report declared, to paraphrase, Wikileaks impeccable and consistent reputation for faultless verification and authentication:

"Moscow most likely chose WikiLeaks because of its self-proclaimed reputation for authenticity. Disclosures through WikiLeaks did not contain any evident forgeries."


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 10:32 utc | 251

Here's more 'reasoned' push-back and a supportive, incriminating & corroborating covert surveillance still photo of Putin & Trump (verified/maybe/could be/might be/F*cked If I know ?):

Updated! Hey, Here's That Obviously Fake 'Dossier' Claiming Trump Is Into Golden Showers!
In an age of forced transparency, we like to watch, right? But even Buzzfeed says its big scoop is bullshit.



Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 10:47 utc | 252

For those who can't or don't have time, or not bothered to download/read the report itself, here's a concise & succinct summary of the contents of the 35 page report, and some insightful comments from Jason Ditz at ... or maybe read just the quotes below :)

Leaked Dossier Claims Russia Has ‘Blackmail Videos’ on Trump
Report Originated From Unnamed 'Former British Intelligence Agent'
by Jason Ditz


There has been no verification of any of the claims in the dossier, ...


No evidence of any of this happening exists.


The two-page summary memo of all these allegations, which included none of the details, was reportedly only shared with a handful of officials, though CNN speculated that this was the source of Sen. Harry Reid’s (D – NV) accusations that the FBI had “explosive” intelligence on Trump that they were withholding in the lead up to the vote.

Update: There is a claim circulating out of the 4chan board that the whole thing is a hoax. And the story is already falling apart: Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, who, according to the document, supposedly met with Russian officials in Prague, has apparently never been to Prague.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 11:13 utc | 253

I'm puzzled, really.
At this point, half of me assumes this is a repeat of the classical "I know he never fucked his pigs, but I want the son of a bitch to publicly deny it" line of character assassination, and half of me suspects this is actually a clever trick from Trump advisers who leaked massive hoaxes and fakes to the establishment/Dems side, to further discredit them when they'll publish such drivel, and to make anti-Trump people appear like complete conspiracy nuts whose every complaint and criticism should be utterly dismissed as sheer lunacy.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 11 2017 11:23 utc | 254

Note: The numbers of news articles released and individual separate sources, on this 'Dossier', is simply staggering. Countless thousands upon thousands, over the last 12 hours. At its peak, so far, at it's highest point, there were over 1,500 articles being simultaneously published, excluding previously published articles in the preceding and the following six hours periods, before and after the 'peak', over the last twelve hours !

Trump could make $Billions & $Billions ...

If they don't whack him quick enough, one has a hunch we're going to see some serious ant-trust laws introduced breaking up the suborned media monopolies that acted solely as irresponsible, unaccountable, enablers ... maybe something like Teddy Roosevelt and the break-up of the worst Robber Barons & Monopolies of the day, from 1890-1914. The effects of which are still being felt today ... one can have a dream, no ?

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 11:30 utc | 255

Hm, am starting to develop some respect for UK's DailyMail outlet (while obviously completely ignoring their other *ahem* quality articles and photo's, which they're better known for). Much more push-back and further revelations:

Kremlin DENIES claims it kept a blackmail dossier on Trump saying reports of compromising files are 'no more than fiction'

- 'Dossier' included claims Trump ordered prostitutes to commit sex acts in Russia
- Unverified document claimed Russia had a file of damaging material on Trump
- But Putin's spokesman has since described the memo as 'complete fabrication'
- Trump has branded the claims as 'fake news' and a 'total political witch hunt'


Dmitry Peskov, the spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin, dismissed news reports as a 'complete fabrication and utter nonsense.'


He added: 'There are those who pump up such a tantrum and do their best to maintain a 'witch hunt', and by the way this is how president-elect Trump characterised this fake.

'And why is the continuation of this hysterical state needed? To force our relationship to stay degraded.

'It is a complete fake - not worth the paper it was written on.'

'This was absolutely fabricated, this is total nonsense. This is what is called 'pulp fiction'.'


But Sputnik warned its readers: 'The fact that multiple media outlets practically simultaneously decided to publish these reports despite admitting their erroneous character is telling by itself.


Sputnik also highlighted a report on the Wikileaks whistleblowing website which claimed as unreliable media reports of Russian agents having kompromat on Trump.

'35 page PDF published by Buzzfeed on Trump is not an intelligence report. Style, facts & dates show no credibility,' WikiLeaks said on Twitter.


'The feeling is that (Barack) Obama's administration has put all its efforts on compromising the winner of the presidential race, and they believe that in this fight all means are worth it,' said Kovayov.

'They have got enough compromising materials in their motherland, let them sort it themselves there.


However, Ilya Ponomaryov - forced out of the Russian parliament after being the only MP to vote against the annexation of Crimea - claimed the alleged compromising material could be used as 'blackmail' by the Kremlin.


The exiled politician claimed the scandal is a prelude to a battle that could see new president Trump impeached.

'The scenario with Trump's impeachment is very real,' he said.

'US political opponents of Trump - both Democrats and Republicans - intend to use the scandal over his alleged help from Russia during the elections as grounds for his impeachment.'

Woohoo !

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 11:50 utc | 256

@246 or

b covers what he covers, i've got no problem with that. it's his blog he covers what he want sto and he does a great job. thanks. but i'm interested in nato/eu and the europeans' response to their outrages, committed in their names ... and against themselves as well. i only remarked that b does not cover it, so i need to get input elsewhere. there are many germans who read the blog ... still very little commentary on germany. periodically i try to bring it up.

i doubt very much that it's concern for the german 'authorities' reaction that keeps be from posting on germany. i don't care what it is, or that he doesn't do so. yet germany remains, the overlord of europe at this point, and i would love to hear that the germans, feeling their oats, are going to throw off the american yoke. so i keep, on occasion, asking ... when? usually met with silence.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11 2017 12:36 utc | 257

So, having imbibed some freshly brewed coffee and consumed some real food, one cannot live on popcorn alone, have had a chance to do some thinking.

Interim analysis, speculation & comment:

Let's consider the larger 'picture' of recent events, shall we.

It is now well known this material was covertly widely distributed to key individuals over the preceding weeks. It was also formally offered up to the FBI & at least the CIA. The material was clearly proffered/supplied 'on a plate' to Buzzfeed, and multiple MSM sources were given spurious supporting commentary by various anonymous Administration officials re the *ahem* validity of the report. Key individual's both in the Democrat & Republican parties have been active and pro-active in the dissemination and influence efforts, many are also well known as proven longstanding 'neocons' and/or intimately involved with the Democrat Party leadership and DNC. the FBI has mostly resisted the pressure applied to it. The CIA has willingly, actively acceded to the influence campaign and even pro-actively gone further itself. The false and invalid background assurance briefings to multiple separate MSM sources/companies and key journalists was concerted, and certainly planned and co-ordinated in advance, to a Psyop plan.

Speculative: The purpose of the previous was to adversely unduly influence key decision makers and pollute all discussion concerning the legitimacy of Trump's election win. Further, the dross, would enable the CIA to continue with it's covert Psyop and COINTELPRO campaign against Trump's presidency and concurrent yet separate efforts at delegitimazy efforts against Trump. Also Trump's faction would be reduced in size and strength through desertions or individuals taking a more neutral uncommitted position until they are certain, which way the chips shall fall.

Comment: By following the Psyop 'Game-Plan' described above a larger goal is extremely probable, virtually certain. To ensure the staggering flood of articles and coverage prior to and in sufficient time to ensure the planned day's media conference by Trump would simply be a cacophony of accusations, slanders and denials and refutations by the MSM and Trump, respectively.

The timing and sequence of events distinctly appears to have been co-ordinated to a pre-planned timeline with the initial and primary target, Trumps News Conference being the goal. Secondly, throw enough mud, and some will stick. Well, this is a trainload of mud, and initial public's perceptions will forever be contaminated by first impressions and the overwhelming worldwide avalanche of slanderous coverage. Including the legacy of thousands upon thousands of online slanderous articles. All searchable/retrievable/referable. Subsequent revelation of 'the facts' will not wholly, or likely even more than minimally undo the damage done at this stage. Further all previous events contribute to a groundswell, a foundation on which to further build momentum and refer back to in false justification, moving forward.

Similarly for sustaining, maintaining and in fact escalating the pre-existing camapaign for conflict with those evil Russkies. And their everywhere, unseen, demon-head Putin.

Given the obvious very broad, co-ordinated well planned campaign, with worldwide assets used, across multiple timezones and many enablers and anonymous administration officials acting as 'media briefers' substantiating, supporting and backing the validity of unverifiable slanders of questionable provenance, and others resources to support all the previous ... then this is only a beginning, in the no doubt larger campaign already pre-planned, of which this event is but a mere step.

Given the identified parties, OUN/DNC/Democrats/Neocons/compromised Republicans (primarily known neocons)/Administration 'officials'/the entire MSM & the CIA ... Trump and his 'faction' is certainly in deep trouble. These combined forces wield enormous influence, power and resources, both overt and covert.

It would seem other agencies and entities have largely remained neutral, or have in very limited ways passively aggressively undermined elements of the campaign where they were able, ie. the contents of the previous #Fake Intelligence Report on Russian Hacking (that never was). ie wikileaks and RT content for example which was self defeating re the overall propaganda narrative. Which was clearly, the preceding stage in this clearly co-ordinated campaign.

1. What comes next after the fallout from the news conference ?

2. What will happen next, regards of the inauguration ?

3. Will being the POTUS be enough for Trump to effectively push back ?

4. What must his, faction, do to survive ?

5. Can he obtain, secure and wield sufficient 'real' power (not just legal office) to overcome this inevitably ongoing campaign ?

6. Will his personal private security details be sufficient to keep him alive ?

7. Has the Deep State and their Corporate(owners)/Oligarchic masters committed fully against Trumps faction, no matter the cost ?

8. Is there a word or phrase that would describe these sequence of events overall ?

9. what will Trump's faction's supporters do ? Will they take to the streets ? If so, What then ?

10. What further provocations towards and escalation re conflict Russia (not just covertly ?) ?

My 2c is up & I'm all outta change ;)


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 13:16 utc | 258

Ah, b's onto it, time for me, to shut up. Am sure you're all very glad. :)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 11 2017 13:23 utc | 259


You all have completely failed to draw the correlation between the Israeli-UK security breach, as explosive as Podesta's and Weiner's, and the casual news bit of Trump appointing his Israeli son-in-law as his Special Advisor (top secret briefs) and as Special Envoy to Israel (from Trump's brief to Bibi's ears), and now this Trump hit piece, which Trump's own people set up, like the Dan Rather GWB AWOL fiasco.

What's wrong with all of you stratfors!?

Now the Israeli-UK story is purged, Kushner is a fait accompli, the detractors of Trump are purged, as Trump's Lolita past is also purged, while you're all here giggling like schoolgirls that everyone was 'taken in'.

This was a Dan Rather 2 hit piece to get the covert Israeli control of US-UK-EU off the news, entirely. You should be horrified and outraged and calling for Likud heads to roll. We should be burning the Israeli embassy down to the ground, not looting USAryan retirees of $10 BILLION to move the embassy to Jerusalem, which will set off $10 TRILLION WW3.

You've become collaborators, the twittering herd. "BOMB THE ZOOKS FOR JESUS!"

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 11 2017 21:19 utc | 260

*don't see the indians listed there. in fact, they too, were under the thumbs of the western imperialists. the guy in your picture - there are nine, not eight, right? - is some poor indian - a sikh? - whose gone along with the brits to get along.*

like i said, bharat has never seen a western war against china that it doesnt like !

rape of peking was just the beginning,
india was in cahoot with cia in the 1959 'uprising' by the dalai and his underlings, the plot failed cuz it wasnt supported by the former serfs who suffered under the hmdl , the common folks supported ccp's land reform.
from then on delhi harbored the hmdl and his entourage and has been condoning and abetting their covert ops against china in cahoot with cia/
goaded by the usa, india mounted a disastrous campaign against china in 1962. they failed miserably but dont seem to learn that lesson tho.
the 2008 violent riots in tibet was a joint cia/raw op launched from hdfl's indian base .
cia/raw [indian intel] has been fomenting terrorists attacks on chinese workers on assignment in pak.
india fell over itself to ride on washington's latest assault, the pivot .
china's silk road proj in pak is under constant menance from cia/raw sponsor militants, so much so that chinese workers have to be under heavy army escort .

*there were plenty in china who did the same thing.*


*i might have you wrong, but you seem to imply that imperialism is somehow, 'racial', or cultural. and that some 'races'/cultures are immune.*

some countries do have more than their fair share of imperialist streak.
murkka/india/jp are the three most vociferous on "yello peril'.
coincidentally, each of them have a long record of aggressions against china , some time i wonder if their incessant harping of the 'chinese threat' belies their own guilty consciousness, are they fearful of a reborned china seeking revenge ?

if so they'r are simply projecting their own mindset. the hans philosophy dont work that way. there's a long historical record that speaks for itself.

for exmaple, mongols and manchus committed genocides on the hans after they conquered the middle kingdom, but when the hans turned the table on the invaders there were no reprisals.
zero, none, nada, zilch.
the mongols and manchus were allowed to assimilate or went back to where they came from.

*the han chinese have been the 'bad guys' to the the people of the middle kingdom, and the rich to the poor regardless of ethnicity, for thousands of years.*

it cant be further from the truth !.
hans are the most enlightened people when it comes to treatment of minorities. dont take my words for it, compare china's preferential treatment of minorities to the brutal oppressions in 'democraticies' like india, indonesia, turkey and....that 'oldest democracy in the world' !
nobel owes china a peace prize, but in this bizarro world, its war criminal obama who gets one !

in any case you are missing the point,
im here debunking the 'commie china bully democratic india' bs peddled in the west,.
that 'india needs to work with fukus, jp to deter the chinese threat'
is pure unadultered bullshit !

robber crying robbery

-*i think that mao and the commies in china were and are a light to the world, but i think the dominance of the rich there is/is-being restored as we speak.*

i cringe every time i read report about the no of billionaires in china.
'china now has more billionaires than such and such ....'
that they [not the chinese themselves tho] use this 'billionaire index' to measure a country's worthiness just shows how corrupted the world has come to.
but the chinese these days are talking a lot about spreading 'positive energy' in the society, meaning love, care and passion. thats a good sign. if they keep this up, china is not done yet.

*the usa is without a doubt the biggest, baddest imperialist on the planet right now, and its imperialism is excused/enabled by it twisted racism and accompanying theology.

but there have been others before and there will be others hereafter, if a change does not come.

i think the changing the structure of civil society, bottom up, is our only hope.*

thats all well and good.
but right now we simply cant afford to let our eyes off washington;s 'masters of universe' gang, the greatest threat to world peace.

losts of people say china and murkka are fighting for world rule, thats bs.
washington is doing all the attack , its a one way affair, no contest.

murkka is about control, china is about survival.
all these militarisation in SCS, Africa etc is for choking off china's commercial life line, china's 'one belt one road' campaign is beijing's gambit to circumvent that strangulation at sea.
but uncle scam wouldnt let go its grip, even this land bypass of the malacca straits is gravely threatened by murkkan sponsored terrorism,
regime change, even ngo etc in afpak and africa.

anti-imperialists need to focus on the control freaks in washington, if they smash the multi pole world order you can say bye bye to that vision of 'bottom up reform' !

Posted by: denk | Jan 12 2017 4:15 utc | 261

@ chipnik | Jan 11, 2017 4:19:12 PM | 260

Alas, you've progressively lost your Mojo Chipnik. And now it's obviously, all gone. How sad :(


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 12 2017 4:40 utc | 262

@ denk | Jan 11, 2017 11:15:45 PM | 261

Excellent post. Great to see you.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 12 2017 4:43 utc | 263

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 11, 2017 4:19:12 PM | 260

[snip] "You all have completely failed to draw the correlation between the Israeli-UK security breach, as explosive as Podesta's and Weiner's, and the casual news bit of Trump appointing his Israeli son-in-law as his Special Advisor (top secret briefs) and as Special Envoy to Israel (from Trump's brief to Bibi's ears), and now this Trump hit piece, which Trump's own people set up, like the Dan Rather GWB AWOL fiasco."

It's interesting that the Wikipedia thumbnail bio on Trompe's son-in-law doesn't mention that he is Israeli. It says that he was raised in the faith in New Jersey by modern Orthodox parents. (Is there a link wrt his Israeli citizenship?)

[snip] "Now the Israeli-UK story is purged, Kushner is a fait accompli, the detractors of Trump are purged, as Trump's Lolita past is also purged, while you're all here giggling like schoolgirls that everyone was 'taken in".

The Israeli-UK story was hammered shut by the British Government because they have laws which make it convenient to twist the balls off of any domestic media, that would shine a light on what amounts to treason.

The coarsest kind of bribery, governments trafficking with the enemy, the co-mingling of government with global mafias, are not stories that can be suppressed forever, because they gnaw at the sensibilities, like the smell of corpses sealed up in the walls. Our leaders will be seen at all posh parties, dressed to the nines, sniffing the wine corks offered for their approval,--right up to the moment when the whole sordid business collapses around them (and around us).

Posted by: Copeland | Jan 12 2017 5:26 utc | 264

Outraged 263

Thank you.

I think the following is a fair comment on china,
may be no angel [but who's ?], just trying to survive. !

Posted by: denk | Jan 12 2017 7:11 utc | 265

Did trump 'stop clinton' ?
With man like tillerson, who needs killary !!!

mind you, the diplomat is a jp mouth piece, hardly pro china !

Posted by: denk | Jan 12 2017 7:20 utc | 266


i agree with you, of course on who are the bad guys on the world stage right now. i just don't think trump's gonna save us and i don't think the chinese are either.

you seem to be asking for an example ...

*there were plenty in china who did the same thing.* (went along to get along)


... william hinton, in Fanshen, described the catholics in 'Long Bow Village' and surrounds as the most avaricious of landlords ... their comfort from jesus came from some of your evil eight, certainly some from france ... those chinese went along with the imperialists to get along ...

here in chiang rai there is a large chinese catholic congregation ... they came with chang kai-shek's boys from china to burma and then northern thailand ... and they have got along very nicely ...

my experience and knowledge of the chinese is quite limited, but my only point is that imperialism is a disease that inflicts all humans, albeit the anglo-americans have been 'on top' of the heap for the last couple of centuries. it's just a problem - the problem - that's been around for the last few thousands of years.

sounds like you've calmed down a bit since last we've conversed. thanks. that makes conversation possible at any rate. i like your posts. you often dig out topics - well not topics but areas that are not reported elsewhere. you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. at least you seem to be trying to catch flies.

i see that chipnik has adopted circe's tactic of calling us all - sissies? - circe called us criminals - for not devoting sufficient attention to their revelation ... it just invites a scroll-by as far as this one is concerned ... i guess there's a certain purity in truly being on the outside ... pissing in, as someone said elsewhere.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 12 2017 9:43 utc | 267

@ Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 11, 2017 6:23:01 AM | 254

this is a repeat of the classical "I know he never fucked his pigs, but I want the son of a bitch to publicly deny it" line of character assassination

All the weight of evidence confirms you're right with your former, above. :)

@ Posted by: jfl | Jan 11, 2017 7:36:36 AM | 257

yet germany remains, the overlord of europe at this point, and i would love to hear that the germans, feeling their oats, are going to throw off the american yoke. so i keep, on occasion, asking ... when? usually met with silence.

Yet how could it be otherwise since from the end of WWII, the German Justice System and Intelligence services were packed with unreconstructed NAZI's from then on working for the Empire's interest's primarily, not Germanies ... Germany has never moved on from imposed only limited Sovereignty ever since then, in my view ... A Sword of Damocles hangs over their heads if they seek too much independence of action. :(

Have been to China and traveled throughout many times, urban and rural. Fascinating Country, cultures and peoples. Love the city of Shanghai, possibly my favorite international destination ... so much history in such a small area ... amazing ... on one occasion a museum security guard was compelled to politely but sternly eject me just after closing, as I'd lost track of time. ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 12 2017 10:55 utc | 268

The Trump circus would not be complete without Rudy Giuliani and as a tech lead.....what a hoot!

Trump's cyber-guru Giuliani runs ancient 'easily hackable website'

Is there still room for Sarah Palin in the circus?.......with the cast of characters playing "themselves"...grifters, one and all

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 13 2017 3:30 utc | 269

@268 or

well, you and denk can continue to hope for salvation from a better 'race' of people, i admit it's tempting to look up for inspiration ... to the flying spaghetti monster in your dispensation ... but i think it is not only distracting but does real harm to one's perspective. me, i like the tais. i saw and still see real promise in their native village based democracy ... see chatthip nartsupha, the thai village economy in the past ... but it's a nostalgia for a common past of human kind, not of the tai race. yet the tais of thailand and burma and yunnan and north vietnam and laos ... and all the other 'minority' peoples of the area ... are all less far removed from 'the golden age' than we are. it could be revived, transformed of course but informed by a yet living tradition, for all of our benefit.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 13 2017 4:58 utc | 270

@ Posted by: jfl | Jan 12, 2017 11:58:03 PM | 270

Respectfully, this ID does not:

... hope for salvation from a better 'race' of people
, nor
... look up for inspiration

Was merely conversing.

Have clearly previously enunciated my position on the tragic consequences of the historical (un)scientific farce of 'races' and it's endless resulting abuses against Humanity in service to Religion, Colonialism & Empire, etc ... by the psychopathic 1% and willing associates, arch-opportunists and mere minions ...


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 13 2017 5:46 utc | 271

nobody talks about pete navarro ,yet this man has got the prez ears !

*The new office will be headed by Peter Navarro, a University of California professor and prominent member of the Trump campaign and transition teams, who is notorious for his advocacy of aggressive trade policies and war-mongering, directed against China in particular.
Navarro's statements demonstrate the inexorable connection between economic nationalism and war: his strident advocacy of punitive trade
measures against China goes hand in hand with calls to prepare for conflict. His books include: The Coming China Wars: Where They Will be Fought and How They Can Be Won; Death by China: Confronting the Dragon—A Global Call to Action; and Crouching Tiger: What Chinese Militarism Means for the World. The last two have been made into films.
Navarro and Gray declared that the pivot had turned out to be “an imprudent case of talking loudly but carrying a small stick, one that has led to more, not less, aggression and instability in the region.” [sic]

Their remedy ties protectionist measures with a vast expansion of the US military, particularly the Navy, and withdrawal from trade pacts such as the TPP that “only weaken our manufacturing base and ability to defend ourselves and our allies.” [1]

“Peace through strength” is not a recipe for peace, but for war.

Significantly, Navarro is an open advocate of ditching the One China policy, which has been the cornerstone of US-China relations since 1979, and forging closer relations with Taiwan. Under the One China policy, Washington recognised that Beijing was the sole legitimate government of all of China and ended diplomatic ties with Taiwan.

Navarro, who had just visited Taiwan, warned of the military dangers of allowing the island to come under China’s sway—Chinese bases would allow Chinese submarines immediate access to the Pacific Ocean and extend the range of its air force. He called for the US to take steps to boost Taiwan’s military capacities.*

I've a feeling dennis and chipnik would be mightily pleased ,
hhhhhh !

pete *fuck china* navaro is supposedly a finance guru [yeah right, blame everything on china !] but the SOB is all over the place poking his nose into foreign affairs and national OFFENSE business.
Just who the fuck does navarro thinks he is,
a sec/treasury, sec/war, sec/state 3 in 1 ???
trump might as well dispense with jim *mad dog* mattis and rex *exxon* tillerson and save the tax payers some money ![0]

*Trump’s team declared that the council would advise the president on “innovative strategies in trade negotiations”*

like threatening to raise hell in the TW straits/SCS/korean peninsula if china doesnt capitulate on trade ?
sound very 'innovative' to me !

god damn sick of such
robber crying robbery !

trump made some politically correct sound bites on the cost of air force1 and f35, apparently thats enuff for the trumpsters to forget his
grand vision to spend trillions to upgrade the 'depleted' murkkan military juggernaut.
hhhhh !

somebody handed that memo to asscarter and harry harris , thats why they were so confidently telling us the pivot is far from kaput, its gonna
be escalated even before the election selection was over.
harry the jp warned about 'live firing with the 12 mile EEZ zone of chinese occupied isles,' no less !

Posted by: denk | Jan 14 2017 3:46 utc | 272

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