Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 09, 2017

ISIS, Al-Qaeda And The U.S. Airforce Wage War On Syria's Public Utilities

There is a campaign underway to destroy Syria's public utilities. Al-Qaeda, ISIS and the U.S. airforce are involved. Their action is coordinated.

That is an outrageous statement? No such coordination would ever happen?  Consider:

The idea of the Islamic State was "born" in the U.S. military prison camp Bucca in Iraq. Many of its future leader were interned there and had time and space to develop their philosophy and to plan their future operations.

In 2012 the Defense Intelligence Agency warned of the rise of an Islamic State entity in Syria and Iraq:


In an August 2014 NYT interview with Thomas Friedman President Obama said that the U.S. knew about the dangers of ISIS but did nothing to stop its expansion in Iraq because it could be used to oust then Prime Minister Maliki:

The reason, the president added, “that we did not just start taking a bunch of airstrikes all across Iraq as soon as ISIL came in was because that would have taken the pressure off of [Prime Minister Nuri Kamal] al-Maliki.

In a recent talk with some U.S. paid members of the Syrian opposition Secretary of State Kerry (video - 25:50) made a similar point but wuth regard to Syria:

"And we know that this was growing, we were watching, we saw that DAESH was growing in strength, and we thought Assad was threatened" Kerry told the Syrians. "(We) thought, however," he continued. "we could probably manage that Assad might then negotiate. But instead of negotiating he got Putin to support him."

There are doubts that the U.S. was only watching from afar. The beginning and growth of ISIS was financed by U.S. Gulf "allies" which are subordinated to U.S. wishes. When the Obama administration had to start bombing ISIS after it killed a U.S. journalist the few bombs its airforce dropped were hitting an "ISIS fighting position" or an "ISIS excavator". That wasn't a serious campaign. Meanwhile thousands of Turkish tanker trucks were waiting in the deserts to load oil from ISIS controlled wells to sell it to Turkey. Only after the Russian President Putin showed satellite pictures of those huge truck columns to his colleagues at a G20 meeting did the U.S. start to attack this major source of ISIS finances.

At the end of last year the U.S. military bombed a Syrian government position in Deir Ezzor where some 100,000 Syrians are besieged by ISIS. It killed more than Syrian 100 troops and enabled ISIS to take important hill positions that may eventually help it to conquer the city. This was an intentional strike.

Currently a campaign is waged by the Takfiri forces opposing the Syrian government and by the U.S. to deprive the people under its protection of all public utilities - water, gas and electricity. After the start of the current blocking of the water supplies to Damascus and its 5-6 million inhabitants we noted:

This shut down is part of a wider, seemingly coordinated strategy to deprive all government held areas of utility supplies. Two days ago the Islamic State shut down a major water intake for Aleppo from the Euphrates. High voltage electricity masts on lines feeding Damascus have been destroyed and repair teams, unlike before, denied access. Gas supplies to parts of Damascus are also cut.

This campaign against basic infrastructure has since continued. U.S. support "rebel" groups take part in it. Al-Qaeda in Syria, aka Jabhat al Nusra, does its share in Wadi Barada. The U.S. military just bombed another Syrian power station. In 2015 it had already waged a campaign against such installations creating huge material damages. Since three days Deir Ezzor and surroundings have no electricity at all. Yesterday ISIS again joined the campaign and blew up a huge gas processing facility in Hayyan in east Homs. Hayyan is the largest such station in Syria and provided electricity, heating gas and cooking gas for all of south Syria including the capital Damascus.

This is a systematic, wide ranging campaign against Syrian infrastructure designed to deprive the people living under government protection of the basic necessities.

If you would ask the U.S. government it would of course say that such a campaign does not exist and is totally not coordinated by the U.S. and its Gulf proxies. It is just coincidence that U.S. supported "rebels", al-Qaeda, ISIS and the U.S. airforce all hit the same category of targets in Syria at the very same moment of their war against the Syrian people.

In knowledge of the top U.S. sources quoted above I would be inclined to doubt such an assertion.

The campaign is in prelude to the next stage of the war for which all involved parties currently prepare. As Obama still gives the orders we can expect it to be more vicious and with even more propaganda support than his failed "defense" of his proxy forces in east-Aleppo.

Posted by b on January 9, 2017 at 20:39 UTC | Permalink

next page »

b. thank you... bingo.. and you have it all in one up to date post for anyone who is interested, to get up to speed on..

Posted by: james | Jan 9 2017 20:44 utc | 1

you forgot to mention, b, that attacking civilian infrastructure such as water treatment, electricity generating stations, etc. are war crimes as per the Geneva Conventions.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 9 2017 20:46 utc | 2

@2 mischi.. that is correct, and i heard on the news yesterday - some western msm thing - that the un might have to look into it and it might be all assads fault too... the way this shit gets framed is very disturbing for anyone following closely..

Posted by: james | Jan 9 2017 20:49 utc | 3

how about this, from the WSJ

The skies above Syria are an international incident waiting to happen, according to American pilots. It is an unprecedented situation in which for months U.S. and Russian jets have crowded the same airspace fighting parallel wars, with American pilots bombing Islamic State worried about colliding with Russian pilots bombing rebels trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad. Russian warplanes, which also attack Islamic State targets, are still flying daily over Syria despite the recent cease-fire in Moscow’s campaign against the anti-Assad forces, according to the U.S. Air Force.

I had to go through google news to get access because it blocked the news article to non-subscribers.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 9 2017 21:03 utc | 4

Barry isn't sane. He is about to start ww3.

Barry is the man of lies.

He still has the nuke keys.

Posted by: pubumwei | Jan 9 2017 21:07 utc | 6

pbumwei, I am also worried that Obama will start something with Russia before he leaves as a parting gift to Trump.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 9 2017 21:09 utc | 7

Once again Putin has negotiated a ceasefire, so naively, in such a way as to allow the proxy forces to heat up the war, now with direct support from their overlords.

I will assume that Putin has done this naively, as I know that to suggest anything else would be a HORRIBLE EVIL AWFUL BAD CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!!

Posted by: paul | Jan 9 2017 21:52 utc | 8

For ISIS' campaign to be working against Syrian government utilities infrastructures, ISIS must be acquiring information about which power stations and lines to strike or bring down, the best times to attack such utilities, and how to stop repair teams from entering. Most importantly ISIS needs to know which utilities to bring down that will have the biggest impact with regard to the numbers of people who will be cut off and the industries that will be affected. If those industries are themselves critical industries on which other industries and businesses are highly dependent, so much the better.

This would mean that only a government or a government agency would have the necessary information to advise ISIS and to supply ISIS with the tools (physical tools or cyber tools) to hack into the actual infrastructures or the databases that support the infrastructures. So we would possibly be looking at (hmmm ...) US intelligence or the intelligence agency of some other foreign government as the advisor to ISIS.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 9 2017 22:06 utc | 9

Hang on, Syria . . . Trump ic coming!!!

Posted by: Denis | Jan 9 2017 22:07 utc | 10

Jen @9:

Generally the routes of utilities are well known. Hubs or nodes are the best targets. The "West " is playing with fire here, I believe. Was the beginning of the negotiations leading up to "The Good Friday Agreements" re Northern Ireland totally, repeat totally, unrelated to the PIRA taking out traffic control light systems around London? Especially at busy junctions in the moments before rush hour?
Scale up to FYR experience in the NATO air campaign in Serbia.
Now where are we?

Posted by: Cortes | Jan 9 2017 22:30 utc | 11

PS: The destruction of the Aztecs was guaranteed to be successful by cutting off the supply of sweet water.

Posted by: Cortes | Jan 9 2017 22:31 utc | 12

interesting if true.. what is the game plan here?

"BEIRUT, LEBANON (11:50 A.M.) - The U.S. Anti-ISIS Coalition conducted a special landing mission on Sunday in order to target a group of Islamic State terrorists inside the Deir Ezzor Governorate's western countryside, Deir Ezzor 24 reported Monday.

"Several foreign forces, including Arab ones, landed via parachutes from four helicopters from 2.45 pm to 4 .00 pm and then they withdrew after fulfilling a mission," Deir Ezzor 24 claimed

"The landing forces cut off the road linking between the Kabr village and the Jazra town by the establishment of checkpoints and then they raided the water plant in the Kabr where they arrested a number of Daesh fighters," Deir Ezzor 24 added."

Posted by: james | Jan 9 2017 22:35 utc | 13

b said..."This is a systematic, wide ranging campaign against Syrian infrastructure designed to deprive the people living under government protection of the basic necessities."

This has been the Empire's MO for quite some time now. Degrade the quality of life enough, and the target nation state fails, which, is the whole point.

Then, the looting can begin. It's only business...

Posted by: ben | Jan 9 2017 22:49 utc | 14

Just ask: Who benefits from the destruction of infrastructure and prosperity in all the arab lands surrounding Israel? Hint: lookup "Yinon Plan".

It is so obvious. This destruction of infrastructure and genocide in Christian Aleppo follows precisely the pattern of the destruction of Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin and most of all nagasaki.

Posted by: Kenny | Jan 9 2017 22:52 utc | 15

Remember the 7,500 "air sorties"? -- What a friggen cynical joke that was!

Posted by: chet380 | Jan 9 2017 23:16 utc | 16

The US stooges in Venezuela have voted to impeach Maduro, following the same script used against Yanukovich in Ukraine. They claim he hasn't fulfilled the duties of the post. The pro-Government representatives boycotted the vote so it was 106-0.

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 9 2017 23:18 utc | 17

James @13

The tribal leader for the eastern regions of Syria has gone for reconcilliation with the Syrian government. He controls all the tribes around east Syria, including Deir ez Zor. That means ISIS will now be facing active opposition for the resident tribal groups as well as the SAA etc. I suspect the 'raid' was to recover crucial US SF assets in that part of Syria before they too get trapped.

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 9 2017 23:24 utc | 18

Billy Clinton and John Major (later Tony Blair) spent 10 years bombing the infrastructure of Iraq, not to defeat Saddam or the Iraqi military but to defeat the population and destroy Iraq as a relatively homogenous welfare state.

You can read the DoD documents describing how they would create public health disasters and mass privation.

Posted by: JohnG | Jan 9 2017 23:28 utc | 19

Cortes @11

It was also very convenient to get the 'respectable white Christian' terrorists off the table before the 'evil Muslim' terrorists came on the scene (courtesy MI6/CIA etc).

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 9 2017 23:38 utc | 20

Jen @9
I agree and suspect sharing of US intelligence with Da'esh accounts for much of its success against Iraqi and Syrian military forces too. But I rarely see this discussed on alternative news sites, probably because there is no little hard evidence of it.

Posted by: Berry Friesen | Jan 9 2017 23:44 utc | 21

@18 yonatan.. thanks.. that sheds a really interesting light on it..

Posted by: james | Jan 9 2017 23:48 utc | 22

Was the beginning of the negotiations leading up to "The Good Friday Agreements" re Northern Ireland totally, repeat totally, unrelated to the PIRA taking out traffic control light systems around London? Especially at busy junctions in the moments before rush hour?
Posted by: Cortes | Jan 9, 2017 5:30:00 PM | 11


The "The Good Friday Agreements" re Northern Ireland were totally, repeat totally, related to the need to declare "Peace in our time" in North Ireland so that the occupying troops stationed there could be removed and shipped off to the long-planned illegal war on the Iraqi people.

Posted by: Gerry Adams | Jan 9 2017 23:48 utc | 23

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 9, 2017 6:38:37 PM | 20
double LOL
some people are hilariously deluded.

The UK could not have helped carry out the complete destruction and occupation of Iraq if they still had to keep thousands of troops "at home" occupying the Northern part of the Irish island.

Declaring "Peace" freed up those troops so the could then go practice on Iraqis everything the learned from violently suppressing the Irish, plus it gave them a chance to do all the other stuff that various European Human Rights court rulings prevented them from doing in Northern Ireland

Posted by: Gerry Adams | Jan 9 2017 23:54 utc | 24

Yes. JohnG @19

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 9 2017 23:57 utc | 25

@ mischi | Jan 9, 2017 3:46:01 PM | 2

War crimes, hah! When have we ever really given a damn re the Laws of War, or International Law & Treaties, such as the Geneva Conventions.

During the second major cordon and destroy operation during the insurgency against Fallujah in Iraq, one of our soldiers guarding three 'unlawful combatants', unarmed, totally incapacitated, severely to mortally wounded, who had received initial first aid, and then been abandoned ... that in and of itself was a War Crime ... and he shot them all dead on live camera on a whim ... and got off scott free ... with the excuse he felt ... threatened !!!

Such Laws and Treaties are referenced when convenient by the Empire, otherwise ignored with contempt, paid lip service. Nuremberg was victors justice. Grrrh.

Destruction of infrastructure and the non-combatant/civilian consequences thereof has been our malevolent way of Unlawful War since, forever ... just ask the ghosts of Sherman, Le May or MacArthur ... our patsies are just taking the fall for following our directives ... at the command (military(political)) and executive level we've always considered humans, even our own citizens/soldiers, let alone other nations, little more than cattle, stock ... ass-wipes. And the documented examples proffered are the result of Command and Executive Authority decisions, General's & POTUS, not some lowly grunt. May the suffering and long-term effects be returned to the psychopaths tenfold, in kind. Grrrh!

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 0:04 utc | 26

standard American arrogance, "if we can't have it no one will"

Posted by: pA | Jan 10 2017 0:05 utc | 27

Ben said: "This has been the Empire's MO for quite some time now. Degrade the quality of life enough, and the target nation state fails, which, is the whole point. Then, the looting can begin. It's only business..."

Some time ... since 1492 ... 1610/1620 ... and the beat goes on.

Business = capitalism. Rapacious, conscienceless capitalism.

Trump, while better than Clinton, is not the answer. AmeriKKKans are too greedy and selfish to have a revolt ... so, maybe if the Old-Bomber does start WWIII and the specie (homo sapiens) kills itself off ...

We'll be better off ... dead? I hope the die off is very, very painful.

Posted by: rg the lg | Jan 10 2017 0:14 utc | 28

Hang on, Syria . . . Trump ic coming!!!

Posted by: Denis | Jan 9, 2017 5:07:58 PM | 10

@ Jen | Jan 9, 2017 5:06:31 PM | 9 & Cortes | Jan 9, 2017 5:30:00 PM | 11

We prepare handy, easy/ready to use, sanitized target assessment packages for the 'moderate-head-choppers' based on a wide spectrum of available sources and means, such as drones, high altitude aerial surveillance, multi-spectrum geostationary satellite surveillance, ongoing State & region infrastructure studies & reports, suborned agents, assets & sources, interrogated Syrian SAA and civilian infrastructure prisoners of the 'moderate-head-choppers', etc, just as we did on a daily basis for Saddam and the Iraqi's when they were consistently slaughtering Iranians for us in the First Gulf War, for eight whole years ... conflicts prior and since, re our proxies. (ElINT, SIGINT, HUMINT)

It's who we are and what we do.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 0:14 utc | 29

@ cortes 11 & 12 good examples

Please ignore my anomalous partial cut & paste error re Hang on, Syria . . . Trump ic coming!!! Posted by: Denis | Jan 9, 2017 5:07:58 PM | 10

Does concur with my viewpoint.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 0:18 utc | 30

unless and until qatar and the ksa and the uae and turkey get a taste of their own 'medicine', the destruction of their own infrastructure, at home they will continue to utterly destroy syria as the us orders ... syria, and yemen ... first.

the nobel peace prize laureate is a totally depraved son of a bitch. smiling through it all. as are all the people who stand with and defend him. that's the self-styled, neo-con 'creme de la creme' of the usa. all 15% of them. depraved war criminals all.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 0:21 utc | 31

@ Gerry Adams | Jan 9, 2017 6:54:37 PM | 24

Hm, the UK support and operations in Iraq, both wars, were not insignificant, neither were they significant, predominantly to provide a shroud of supposed legitimacy and plausibility to the so-called farce of 'International Coalitions' acting re R2P and unlawful pre-emptive self-defense rationals/excuses ... which was all and still is crap. No different to all our vassals who participated in Vietnam ... oh, and to mollify the self-deluded UK poodle that they really were part of a mythical 'special relationship', hah, not!

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 0:27 utc | 32

@10 denis @30 outraged

i know you cannot possibly, really believe that - but at such a low point we all clutch to whatever purchase our fingers can find.

in reality we're going to 'wake' from one nightmare into another. like an evil, mirror image of a Matryoshka doll.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 0:27 utc | 33

jfl | Jan 9, 2017 7:27:29 PM | 33

It's missing a NOT ! as in:

Does NOT concur with my viewpoint. goddamnit. Note the preceding please ignore ?

This topic virtually makes my blood boil ... hence typos/errors. Apologies.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 0:34 utc | 34

Honestly, we are lucky the war in Syria is over with the Russians & Syrians and allies winning.

Posted by: Julian | Jan 10 2017 0:35 utc | 35

@ Posted by: rg the lg | Jan 9, 2017 7:14:14 PM | 28

We'll be better off ... dead? I hope the die off is very, very painful.

Yes, well, even a journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step ... off you go then, follow your passion, commit to your constantly espoused position man! Take that first step! Initiate the rush/march of the lemmings, why don't you, eh ?

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 0:41 utc | 36

totally off topic, but have you read that two French judges have decided not to prosecute French soldiers who sexually abused children in the Congo during UN peacekeeping duties? I am so enraged about this that I had to share the news.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 10 2017 1:10 utc | 37

"Trump swept to power promising a 'revolution of production' and huge wage increases; but it was not clear exactly which policies he was proposing, even after his election victory, (other than his ubiquitously-repeated 'MAGA' slogan.)

When Trump began his presidency, there was massive stagflation and a long-term recession. Most economists of the time thought that the ideal solution was the Washington Consensus: reduce expenditures below the amount of money earned by the state, and open international commerce to free trade. Trump invited the conservative politicians Reince Priebus and Jeff Sessions into his cabinet, as well as businessmen from Exxon and Dune.

The Republican Congress sanctioned Trump's Economic Emergency law and the State Reform law. The first allowed the president to reduce or remove Federal subsidies to health and for education, and the latter to privatize state enterprises – the first being superhighways and national resource lands.

These privatizations were beneficial to foreign creditors like Saudi and China, who replaced their Treasury bonds with State-privatization 'schemes'. Despite an massively increased debt ceiling, and the swap-out of Treasury bond debt from the privatizations, the US economy was still largely unstable. The Trump cabinet businessmen were first to leave the government in late 2017, amid a second round of recession, leaving their cabinet positions in the hands of deputy apparatchiks and rabbinical end-timers.

For example, the first measure of the new secretary of the treasury, Kevin Stein, was a mandatory conversion of US bank savers' time deposits into government Treasury bonds: named the Boned Plan. It only served to generate greater recession, and lead to a collapse of the civil econonomy."


OK, the names were changed here, from Argentina to USArya.

The outcome will be much the same: an economic civil war.
Life will be painful: riots, mob lynchings, mass shootings.
Forced conversion to T-bonds will expose many to loan sharks.
Many who leveraged their credit will be ruined, and a cascade
of bank repossessions and evictions will destroy tax revenues.
Faced with a choice of loot or die, Mil.Gov.Fed will choose loot.
Americans will learn the meaning of 'two cups of tea on one teabag'.

10 moar days! It's a' comin'!! A roaring $29 TRILLION debt ceiling!!!

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 10 2017 1:17 utc | 39


You should see the streets of SEAsia, where 1000s of invading Chinese real estate tycoons in their huge Lexus and Esplanade SUVs suddenly change lanes in their urgency to 'make a deal', to 'get where they're going', and run right over the locals walking in the street, bicycling by or riding motos. The result is the same, a long grease stain, pink guts, a head with rags, everyone standing by, taking pictures with their cells, and the Chinese businessman is long gone in the rear view mirror. Then they call a monk to say a prayer, nam yo hoh renga koh!

Like I tell my younger associates when their sensitivities get burnt, 'Let it go, let it go.' We have more important things to worry about. 800,000 USAryan children go missing or molested every year, in 'good times'. Imagine 2018.

On to Sevastopol for the P2A R2P One Party of Mil.Gov.Fed!! Arriba! Arriba!! Andele!!

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 10 2017 1:34 utc | 40

These tactics are exactly what the US/Canadian/British RPF used in Rwanda. Rwanda has a high average elevation, and is thus relatively cool. The RPF (Kagame's and Rwigema's group) would attack natural gas, water and electricity distribution in Kigali. For an overview, see Robin Philpot's Rwanda and the New Scramble for Africa.

Once the natural gas was out of commission, they used the excuse of gathering firewood (from Mulundi, in the north, for heating in Kigali---sic---not firewood from Kigali's vicinity) to smuggle the arms that Kagame's henchmen, Eric Hakizimana and Franck Nziza used to shoot down president Habyarimana's airplane.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jan 10 2017 1:37 utc | 41

Forgot to add---as such, it is fitting that thugs such as Samantha Powers, a very important Pentagon-tied apologist and supporter of Kagame, is involved in the same tactics twenty years later.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jan 10 2017 1:39 utc | 42


And then they came for me:

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 10 2017 1:46 utc | 43

@ chipnik | Jan 9, 2017 8:17:47 PM | 39 & 40 & 43

OT ? Just curious. Will you ever restrain yourself sufficiently, to comment, 'On Topic', to the relevant thread ? Or is your pony made of steel and runs on a single line railroad track ? Just askin'. YMMV

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 2:08 utc | 44

@mischi #37:

mischi sounds like Muschi.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Jan 10 2017 2:34 utc | 45

Adalbrand sounds like Anal burning.

Idiot! Kennst du nur Deutsch und Englisch? Ich hasse die Deutschen. Sie sind arrogant und denken die Welt dreht sich um sie. Sie haben nichts seit dem Zweite Weltkrieg gelernt.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 10 2017 2:52 utc | 46

@ b, unless your logs indicate hijacking, Adalbrand | Jan 9, 2017 9:34:19 PM | 45, respectively suggest has this time gone beyond the pale with that link :(

@ mischi | Jan 9, 2017 9:52:20 PM | 46

Your original post was not OT to me, IMHO (others YMMV), and hold the comment link posted to you to be worthy of utter contempt.

Peace. Salaam. Shalom.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 3:07 utc | 47

Thanks Outraged.

Posted by: mischi | Jan 10 2017 3:18 utc | 48

But... Remember ASS Carter just told the world that the, "US is fighting ISIS along in Syria, Russia is doing virtually zero"! They (Russia) haven't done anything! You gotta love it!... You can't make this shit up! Unbelievable!

Posted by: Trixie from Dixie | Jan 10 2017 3:28 utc | 49

US fighting.... Alone! Sorry, autocorrect!

Posted by: Trixie from Dixie | Jan 10 2017 3:30 utc | 50

Outraged ...

March of the Lemmings? We are so far beyond that it isn't worth considering. How the blue blazes did we get to where we are if not being Lemmings for the greed that defines us? Lessor evil voting simply made a bad situation worse.

The west, rooted in the angst of the post-Roman world, has never done anything except take, destroy, etc. Why defend an indefensible monster?

Other empires have understood limits. The Chinese backed away from going beyond what was manageable in the 14th century. Our 'modern' world does not understand limits ... it only demands more ... never content.

The rest of life accepts that there is no long term benefit to killing for no reason ... only we do that and it is something (maybe the only thing) we do well. Why not embrace "THE END" given that we won't change ... there'll just be another gang of oligarchs (call them what you will) ... maybe you if the cards fall that way ... or your are as ruthless as your genetic make-up.

Am I bitter? Maybe. Am I angry? Not really. Am I disgusted with all the bs tossed about by people attempting to be all wise ... and ultimately no more than those they would replace? Yeah ... That is me ... in spades!

Posted by: rg the lg | Jan 10 2017 3:39 utc | 51

One thing to think about on what has been happening in Syria. The US went into Syria thinking Russia was down and out.
Russia went into Syria most likely knowing it would be going up against the US. All scenarios would have been gamed.
US is now constantly reacting rather than working to a plan. Not nice, but better than US working to a plan.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 10 2017 3:52 utc | 52

World sitrep @ the moment providing plenty of distractions, but curious that US armor is rolling off the ships towards Estonia where the US is not fighting. Assuring our NATO friends. Have a Brigade, friends, to make you feel better. When Trumpy comes along, you'll get an invoice for it.

Question for the Syria table: Can Assad hang onto his people when the rioting starts over lack of water and gas? Can he direct them outward against the headchoppers and saboteurs? Will Iran and Hizbollah stand up for him when/if Damascus revolts? Is there enough popcorn?

Posted by: stumpy | Jan 10 2017 4:08 utc | 53

January 9, 2017 ***YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP***

-Through the looking glass-

ISIS terrorist attack Jerusalem

Jerusalem (CNN)The driver who plowed a truck into a group of soldiers in Jerusalem, killing four people and injuring at least 10, may have been an ISIS sympathizer, according to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Posted by: ALberto | Jan 10 2017 4:15 utc | 54


George Bush Jr looks intently at AQ and USAF waging relentless war on Syria's public utilities for a minute, then says, "I don't see anything!", but, the lens caps are on his binoculars! Ha,ha,ha.

Outraged, the SRR Commander slaps the binoculars from George Bush Jr's hands, spinning his field cap off in the process. "NOW do you see AQ and USAF waging relentless war on Syria's public utilities!?" the Commander growls.

George Bush Jr bends over calmly and picks up his field cap, dusting it off on his knee. He looks the SRR Commander in the eye, and repeats, ""I don't see anything!", then slowly smiles.

Speaking of 'iron horses and being railroaded', does it never occur to you'all how totally RELENTLESS the psyop here on MoA is, every single post, ISIS this, AQ that, US evil, RU good, Turkey bad, Kurds good, Aleppo this, Deir ez-Zor that, might be justified in saying this is an Old Soldiers 8 Symptoms of GroupThink recovery meeting, gone terribly retro.

We might as well be commenting on the dark side of the moon, for the little real substance that glues together all these facile swags about who's on first, and who's new champion of the day. If there was any truth, Assange is sitting on it.

Honestly, it's like listening to WWE Raw fans, you want to say, 'Hey, you know all this is fake, right?' But you'll get pounded, so when they slap you on the back, and roar, 'Did you see what Cina just did to Batista in Rafa!?', you calmly reply, 'I don't see anything."

There are no 1st-person war accounts here on MoA. There are no famous pop stars here on MoA.
Nothing that has a fingernail's impact on anyone in US-UK-EU. So what do you come here for? For the daily dose of war porn? I only come here hoping to spot Denk,hee, hee, hee.

Posted by: chipnik | Jan 10 2017 4:17 utc | 55

@ stumpy "when/if Damascus revolts"

Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 10 2017 4:22 utc | 56

Relative to: Posted by: Peter AU | Jan 9, 2017 10:52:30 PM | 52

Posted a detailed explanation/references (post 204 in Open Thread) at 'Peter AU' request, re elements of strategic calculations re RF/US Air, Air-Defense conflict and Operational risks re Putin/RF original decision to deploy to Syria and touches on aspects of why many may still be wondering why (or maybe not) the Empire, has not fully committed it's own assets (i.e. Military) and is unlikely ever to do so, in the current situ/scenario. as opposed to shipping and storing stuff in long term storage in Denmark, for example ... ;)


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 4:41 utc | 57

@ chipnik | Jan 9, 2017 11:17:20 PM | 55

Your parsed posted says it all, really. And eliminates any doubts IMV. Chipnik.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 4:46 utc | 58

@ Peter 56


Posted by: stumpy | Jan 10 2017 4:50 utc | 59

>>>> ALberto | Jan 9, 2017 11:15:27 PM | 54

ISIS terrorist attack Jerusalem

Not ISIS but claimed by PFLP.
Not terrorist - since when have attacks on an occupying military been terrorism?

may have been an ISIS sympathizer, according to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
Well he would say that wouldn't he. Yet again Netanyahu wants to bathe in victimhood.

Posted by: Ghostship | Jan 10 2017 5:03 utc | 60

@ rg the lg | Jan 9, 2017 10:39:35 PM | 51

This grumpy bastard of more than three score and ten years will be damned if I'll willingly go silently into the night (youtube 4Min33sec)

Empire can goddamn well shove it, till my last breath is drawn (Pic/Image)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 5:07 utc | 61

Ghostship | Jan 10, 2017 12:03:01 AM | 60

Not terrorist - since when have attacks on an occupying military been terrorism?

may have been an ISIS sympathizer, according to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

Well he would say that wouldn't he. Yet again Netanyahu wants to bathe in victimhood.

Relevant International Law, and by treaty ratification also Domestic Law(for whats its worth):

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia

The Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, commonly ... Article 5 provides for the suspension of persons' rights under the Convention for the duration of time that ... In World War II, both the Germans and the Japanese carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance.

Belligerent occupation - International Committee of the Red Cross(PDF)

the Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention, which codifies a substantial part of modern ... such occupation does not encounter armed resistance. The essential ... general legal position and rights of civilians in occupied territory. We will cover more ...

Occupation and international humanitarian law: questions and answers

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 5:21 utc | 62

relevant article today from elijah j m..

Posted by: james | Jan 10 2017 5:23 utc | 63

Followup to 62

Resistance-movement - Right to Resist

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 5:26 utc | 64

@63 james

elijah's observations of the russia-turkey vs syria-iran-hezbollah split seem not unfounded ...

Syrian War Report – January 9, 2017: Heavy Fighting Continues Despite Ceasefire

Meanwhile, pro-ISIS sources released a fresh photo-report from the area of al-Bab where the Turkish Armed Forces and pro-Turkish militant groups were attempting to break ISIS defenses near this key Syrian town. The photo report included an alleged photo of the Russian Su-35 (or Su-30) multi-role fighter. According to reports, the warplane had been operating in the area, supporting Turkish forces advancing against ISIS. If true, it will be the first real evidence of reports that Russia provides an air support to Turkish forces in northern Syria.

wonder if the russian air force is attacking the kurds as well?

Syrian Army seizes Turkish weapons supply destined for jihadist rebels in Hama

BEIRUT, LEBANON (3:45 A.M.) - The National Defense Forces (NDF) carried out an ambush in the eastern countryside of Hama on Tuesday, seizing a large supply of weapons destined for Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham militants in western Salamiyah.

russia's turkish partner is rearming/resupplying its 'ceasefire' signing proxies in syria.

according to elijah the russians are tired of syria, looking for any means to get out.

iran insists they're there til its over.

russia-iran split can't be good for anyone.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 5:51 utc | 65

@james 63

Syrian War Report – January 9, 2017: Heavy Fighting Continues Despite Ceasefire

Meanwhile, pro-ISIS sources released a fresh photo-report from the area of al-Bab where the Turkish Armed Forces and pro-Turkish militant groups were attempting to break ISIS defenses near this key Syrian town. The photo report included an alleged photo of the Russian Su-35 (or Su-30) multi-role fighter. According to reports, the warplane had been operating in the area, supporting Turkish forces advancing against ISIS. If true, it will be the first real evidence of reports that Russia provides an air support to Turkish forces in northern Syria.

seems in line with elijah's observations of russian-turkish 'alliance'

Syrian Army seizes Turkish weapons supply destined for jihadist rebels in Hama

BEIRUT, LEBANON (3:45 A.M.) - The National Defense Forces (NDF) carried out an ambush in the eastern countryside of Hama on Tuesday, seizing a large supply of weapons destined for Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham militants in western Salamiyah.

also points up the utter meaninglessness of any 'assurances' offered by turkey

a russia-iran split and a russia-turkey 'alliance' sounds terrible to me.

sorry, no links. wasn't allowed to post with them. the first is from south front and the second from amn

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 6:00 utc | 66

@ jfl | Jan 10, 2017 1:00:58 AM | 65

If typepad 'ghosts' out the post/edit buttons, copy the intended text, then reload/refresh the page ... 'paste' and try again. If still not available, open a new tab or close and re-open the browser and try again. It's a bug with typepad ... Cheers.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 6:09 utc | 67

@ paul | Jan 9, 2017 4:52:19 PM | 8

Hello tom.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 6:34 utc | 68

Wow! Call me shocked!
If these reports are true then it suggests that Judeo-Christian Colonial wonks are much better at co-ordinating Ter'rist attacks than Russians and Iranians are at thwarting Ter'rist attacks. It's hard to see a bright side to this, considering that the perps haven't been punished, yet.
I wonder when Teresa May will send in the British Army to round up the families of the SAA and starve them in concentration camps? The Independence-seeking Boers couldn't surrender quick enough when the Brits decided to end the Boer War in a delightfully Christian way.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 10 2017 6:45 utc | 69

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 10, 2017 1:45:25 AM | 68

No ?! /snark

Nor could the Fillipinos when we used the exact same techniques to break the resistance of the rebels (1900-1913) ... took fourteen years though, and the majority of the 200,000(lowest count) dead civilians of that time died for the very same reason the Boers families died in the British concentration camps in South Africa during the Second Boer War (1899-1901) ... UK/US, 30+ years before the NSDP Third Reich got going with their concentration camps, and as always, Prussian/German culture had to prove themselves ever more efficient, with higher kill counts ... all three cases deaths were primarily through starvation, malnutrition & preventable typhoid & cholera epidemics ... tho everyone's forgotten about the UK/US concentration camps ... how convenient ...

Then there's the highly successful variation again with the 'drain the sea' concentration camps in the UK Malaya campaign ... then the Strategic Hamlet Program in Sth Vietnam, which ultimately went to crap, 'cause the ARVN Officer running it was an NVA agent ... haha ... didn't quite work that time ... became an actual source of weapons/ammunition/supplies/protection FOR the VC, not denial/isolation/coercion of families, by and large ... anyways ...

Same as it ever was ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 7:04 utc | 70

Outraged@66 - If you take too long writing a post and get the 'session has timed out' or something like that, then cut - refresh - paste works fine, but I notice that it will not un-ghost the post and preview buttons (for me on Chrome at any rate). Typing a single space

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 10 2017 7:29 utc | 71

Whups.. Typing a single space at the end of the pasted text will un-ghost post and preview. Something about just pasting any amount of text in an empty comment confuses Typepad, but adding one more character (or any additional text) makes it happy.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 10 2017 7:32 utc | 72

@ PavewayIV | Jan 10, 2017 2:32:24 AM | 71

Yeah, aware of the timeout, that's another, separate bug ... My methodology is try to be disciplined in creating longer posts in separate Docu/text-app, much easier to view/edit, and don't lose the post if all becomes SNAFU. Then refresh, cut & paste, preview, edit, test preview links, edit links, copy & finally post ... phew! ... when ya cut & paste, what I do is always delete the last character of the pasted text, press the relevant key and Shazaam! Keys are unghosted(sic).

All good. Cheers :)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 7:50 utc | 73

@ Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 10, 2017 2:29:50 AM | 70

We're borderline OT here, however, Chrome is security/Google surveillance nightmare app ... recommend Firefox with plugins/extensions (adblock/Flashblock, at least) and utilizing 'private Browsing' as a minimum ... more seriously 'Tails', running in a RAM virtual OS session, TOR thru one or more VPN's, customized hardened OS on router/modem hardware ... if any of that is a concern for you.

If I'm tellin' ya how to suck eggs, apologies. If wish to discuss further we should go to open thread, methinks ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 8:01 utc | 74

Same as it ever was ...
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10, 2017 2:04:17 AM | 69

Ouch! I just had a flashback ... the day, 6+ decades ago, when Hw's Mum felt obliged to acquaint him with the fact that Nth AmeriKKKa's Red Indians didn't invent scalping; they copied it from bounty-hunting Christian Colonials.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 10 2017 8:18 utc | 75

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 10, 2017 3:18:31 AM | 74


We also taught the value of turning superior technology back against the invader/colonial, ie the value of rapid fire firearms and marksmanship ... they're preference for such, ie revolver rifles and lever action rifles (fast firing rate large internal magazine) came as a rather 'terminal' surprise for that 'charming'(not) blonde haired last-stand fella, Custer, whose troopers were using manual reloaded single round trapdoor Model 1873(?) Springfield cavalry carbines. Ah, the value of fire suppression and superior firepower, sometimes, bites back ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 8:36 utc | 76

66 outraged

reading the thread from the bottom up i was wondering who started all this talk about posting ... again ... till i discovered it was me!

sorry, i should have said typepad allows me to post ... but cloudflare won't serve ... my post with the links to south front and/or amn in them. i ran out of patience to determine which one it was. searching on the exact name of a linked article will return a link to it, most often. the link's exact name is nearly as good as the link itself, in fact is better when links are being censored my a man-in-the-middle.

pressing post on a comment which contains a link to a 'bad' source results in the standard 'your comment has been posted' return from typepad. but in fact your post does not show up. why is that? since typepad says it was posted, i assume it is mitm cloudflare that has silently disappeared the post. but i don't know that. i do know that posts containing links to someone's idea of 'bad' destinations are 'posted' ... but they're not. eliminating the links ... one by one if there are more than one ... will tell you which links are 'bad' links at moa ... today. the list seems to change, unpredictably.

i understand ... well, i'm aware of ... the idiosyncracies of posting presented by typepad itself. that's not the issue with censored links though. they're a separate issue.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 8:57 utc | 77

74 hw

by the time of the vietnam war the xtian colonials had 'progressed' to collecting bodyparts of those they had massacred without receiving their reward, if the tales of american gis collecting string of the ears of the vietnamese they killed are true. i wasn't there, thank goodness. i don't know if they are true or not. douglas valentine reports that in vietnam ...

Counterterror was one way of co-opting uncommitted civilians. To facilitate their political awakening, according to [Elton] Manzione, "We left our calling card nailed to the forehead of the corpses we left behind. They were playing card size with a light green skull with red eyes and red teeth dripping blood, set against a black background. We hammered them into the third eye, the pituitary gland, with our pistol butts. The third eye is the seat of consciousness for Buddhists, and this was a form of mutilation that had a powerful psychological effect."

... us gis, 'wahabist' head choppers ... war is war. each side is eventually as depraved as the other.

to me the shocking depravity is not the individuals in the field who do such 'inhuman' things ... it's the people in the offices who order them/draft them/hire them/deprive and inspire them to do what they do, who dial in the drone assassinations of cell-phones - no matter who's holding them, who firebomb cities, who purposefully bomb dams, and on, and on, and on ... and the populations back home that just accept it. that's war. collateral damage.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 9:17 utc | 78

@ jfl | Jan 10, 2017 3:57:13 AM | 76

What you've described, which posters regularly blame on typepad re disappearing posts or blocked posts due to embedded links, is often cloudflare dynamic filtering ... It is NOT typepads fault, in that particular case. You can narrow it down, if you really wish by process of elimination, find a dead older thread that still has post count above 100 and experiment till you find the offending link. Any old threads that roll-off the front page, posts above 100 count disappear into the ether, gone forever, one of the motivations for Hasbara trolls to flood threads and quickly breach the 100 count, anything after that is lost forever. Hence feeding trolls hastens reaching the 100 count. You can always use a 'link shortening' service if determined, or search for an alternate source URL. Trust that all makes sense.

Cloudfare, Twitter, Facebook, Google, just to name a few get up to some highly questionable activities ... tho they tell us often they're defenders of Privacy, Free expression & Apple Pie. Often forget my provider blocks Iran's PressTV service, so when I occasionally visit when on an insecure setup, the page dies, no DNS resolution, redirected to a routing black-hole, not even an error ... time to launch Tails ... or load it from a USB Stick. Just looove covert censorship.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 9:25 utc | 79

@Robin #38

If I wanted to show how the Mossad and their neocon puppets had masterminded 9/11 (which they did) and I linked to a neo-nazi article supporting it, I am certain everyone here would consider it a joke.

Yet you post an article from "jewishpress" "refuting" the own secret plan. If anything the jewishpress, by so weakly linking Yinon to the Protocols merely adds legitimacy to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Truly pathetic. Funny how jews always think that more of their lies will cover for thier past ones. Just look at the never end of ever bigger lies from the jewish press's about Putin (((hacking))) the election.

But lets face is, the jewish press is busy covering for the most criminal regime in the history of the planet. This is the same regime that is driving the destruction of Christian Aleppo. Why else would they patch up (((daesh))) and bomb Syrian army positions that threaten the (((terrorists))).

Posted by: Kenny | Jan 10 2017 9:26 utc | 80

Well, at least Barry'O looks African enough to be tried in the ICC.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 10 2017 9:26 utc | 81

jfl | Jan 10, 2017 4:17:11 AM | 77

Declassified docu from the National Security Archives, re OP Phoenix etc:

The CIA's Vietnam Histories
Newly-Declassified CIA Histories Show Its Involvement in Every Aspect of the Indochina War
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 283

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 9:31 utc | 82

@ MadMax2 | Jan 10, 2017 4:26:55 AM | 80

I'm somewhat embarrassed to say, that made a helluva mess of my screen and keyboard and now I'll have to brew up a new batch of coffee, damn you ! ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 9:36 utc | 83

78, or, 'You can always use a 'link shortening' service ...'

and embrace the men in the middle? no thanks. i agree that it's cloudflare. posting the full title of an article usually does it. hell, searching on a longish string of text from a blockquote will usually return a link to the article in question. it's not necessary to substitute one mitm with another.

cutting and pasting either of the titles in 65 above yields the corresponding link at the top of a google search, or an lxquick search, or a yandex search ...

i use that method myself whenever i'm curious enough to follow one of nmb's links to failed evolution ... s/he always uses, to get around just such link censors i presume.


thanks for the link to the national security archives. i'll stick with douglas valentine for now. haven't finished The Phoenix Program, yet. what's up with george washington university? it seems like a cia operation to me, heavily infiltrated at any rate. as is georgetown.

by the bye ... can you give me any insight into why i see so many (((triply parenthesized words))) in posts?

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10 2017 10:06 utc | 84

Gerry Adams @24

There are also the infamous 'UK SF sent in dressed as ISIS in order to attack them' of the Cameron regime days. They have done an amzing job - ISIS is now on its knees /sarc. One role of insertd SF is to act as forward air controllers. Were such people involved in the deliberate US air attack on the Syrian forces a while back? (semi-rhetorical as no one here knows)

OT: The US finally releases the evidence of Russian hacking.

Posted by: Yonatan | Jan 10 2017 10:10 utc | 85

@ Yonatan | Jan 10, 2017 5:10:42 AM | 85

Ah, yes, who could forget a couple of likely 'Lads' with terrible fake beards, local attire (not quite right) caught red-handed in their Car-Bomb by Iraqi police in Basra (Sep 2005). SASR specializes in these activities in service of our 'special relationship' poodle, Perfidious Albion (UK).

Here's a quite detailed partial history of that and similar UK/US events recorded for posterity, many references/sources:

Were British Special Forces Soldiers Planting Bombs in Basra (Iraq)?
Suspicions Strengthened by Earlier Reports

Members of Britain’s Elite SAS Forces

It appears that when on September 19 (2005) suspicious Iraqi police stopped the Toyota Cressida the undercover British soldiers were driving, the two men opened fire, killing one policeman and wounding another. But the soldiers, identified by the BBC as “members of the SAS elite special forces”, were subdued by the police and arrested. A report published by The Guardian on September 24 adds the further detail that the SAS men “are thought to have been on a surveillance mission outside a police station in Basra when they were challenged by an Iraqi police patrol”.

As Justin Raimondo has observed in an article published on September 23 at, nearly every other aspect of this episode is disputed.

The Washington Post dismissively remarked, in the eighteenth paragraph of its report on these events, that “Iraqi security officials variously accused the two Britons they detained of shooting at Iraqi forces or trying to plant explosives”. Iraqi officials in fact accused them not of one or the other act, but of both.


Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 10:51 utc | 86

No evil act is beyond the United States of Atrocity.

Posted by: Michael McNulty | Jan 10 2017 10:56 utc | 87

Followup to 86:

A picture is worth a thousand words, so, here are a few.

Here's the crucial Iraqi Police Photo of some of the equipment retrieved from that Cressida, that according to the BBC and HM UK Government/Military SF (SASR) was just doin' a bit of harmless covert surveillance ...

An astute observer will identify:

An Anti-Armor rocket launcher, Qty x 2(?) Light MachineGuns (LMGs), and some very questionable other materials ... that would be rather non-covert, cumbersome and entirely unsuited & unnecessary for a supposed ... covert surveillance OP ...

Page source and further pics.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 11:13 utc | 88

new post and new pics by jan oberg

Posted by: Mina | Jan 10 2017 11:20 utc | 89

@ jfl | Jan 10, 2017 5:06:53 AM | 84

by the bye ... can you give me any insight into why i see so many (((triply parenthesized words))) in posts?

Another thread someone mentioned the (((x))) indicated echoes. They may be correct, or not.

From near OT this thread, Thanks for the information about > 100 comments not being kept, now I will assure mine are in that range or greater. No need leaving 'evidence' trails for snoopy dogs.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 10 2017 11:26 utc | 90

@ Formerly T-Bear | Jan 10, 2017 6:26:43 AM | 90

Apologies re my 79. Correction! The ~7-10 days I quoted is NO LONGER THE CASE ... that was applicable knowledge from a few years ago ... and a then working limitation ... have done a quick check ... no joy, my sincere apologies, that no longer applies, page 2 (count 101 and above ARE ACCESSIBLE). Sorry for inadvertantly leading anyone astray regards that specifically. I should have re-verified. Alas am only human. :(

Following WRONG: Any old threads that roll-off the front page, posts above 100 count disappear into the ether, gone forever, one of the motivations for Hasbara trolls to flood threads and quickly breach the 100 count, anything after that is lost forever. Hence feeding trolls hastens reaching the 100 count. Preceding WRONG

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 12:03 utc | 91

Hi, b -- thanks for your post. I put up a post this morning in response to it.

My points in the post are as follows. After I quoted from your post I wrote:

Okay, but consider what Thierry Meyssan at Voltaire Network dug up and published on January 7, and which involves the White Helmets: [I then posted his entire article, titled:]

"A «Humanitarian NGO» deprives 5.6 million civilians of water"

I then wrote:

I wish Thierry had named all the "jihadi" signatories to the document, which could provide more clues about who ordered the strikes against the utilities.

But for now, I don't consider the Gulf Arab governments to be U.S. "proxies," as b termed them. And I can't see Al Thani or Al Saud taking orders from President Obama with regard to Syria.

I do see the British and possibly also the French government taking orders from Al Saud when it comes to the campaign in Syria. And when I consider the Saudi campaign in Yemen, which has consistently targeted civilians and critical civilian infrastructure, the concerted attack on Syria's public utilities is something I can easily imagine the Saudis ordering.

Add to this the White Helmets, who while funded by a variety of governments was clearly the brainchild of the British government. Given that line of reasoning, I'd assume that they take their orders from MI6.

So when I put it all together, I'd want to know whether b is certain that it was a U.S. jet(s) that bombed a power station, or a jet that is part of the U.S.-led coalition operating in Syria. Such as a British or French jet. (Confusion about the identity of a jet in the coalition has happened before during the Syria campaign.)

This isn't to let the U.S. government off the hook. But if my reasoning is in the ballpark, then the accusation should be broadened to include governments in the coalition that have bomber planes operating in Syria.

And I note that from Thierry's description of the letter of protest sent by Syria's government to the UN Security Council, the Syrians seem to believe more than one foreign government is involved in ordering attacks on the utilities.

As Thierry notes, depriving civilians of water is a war crime. This returns me to the copy of the document that Thierry posted, and the question about the other signatories. If most or all take their orders from Al Saud/Thani, I think that should raise a red flag about which government(s) ordered the attacks on the public utilities.

I also think b has presented enough information to make it a plausible argument that one or more governments in the U.S.-led coalition did indeed collude with acknowledged terror organizations to attack Syrian utilities.

I think it's important to attempt to nail down whether governments other than the U.S. are involved with the terrorist attacks on the utilities because the Obama administration will be gone in a few days. And even if they could eventually be held accountable, the task is to get the attacks stopped quickly.


Posted by: Pundita | Jan 10 2017 12:39 utc | 92

@ Outraged | Jan 10, 2017 7:03:46 AM | 91

Not to worry. Things sounding too good to be true, usually aren't true. Any hole I can make in Total Information Awareness is my goal and delight. About the only way to defeat TIA is to make its information incomplete or unreliable; a good policy for all to adopt. Long term exposure to GCHQ has created a Pavlovian response; Seldom do I follow links and almost never Youtube. I will try to give key words that might be followed through the reader's preferred and trusted resources. Other than that I do expect the reader to bring through their experience sufficient knowledge that communications can transpire without undue difficulties. YMMD

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 10 2017 12:51 utc | 93

@ Pundita | Jan 10, 2017 7:39:58 AM | 92

So when I put it all together, I'd want to know whether b is certain that it was a U.S. jet(s) that bombed a power station, or a jet that is part of the U.S.-led coalition operating in Syria. Such as a British or French jet. (Confusion about the identity of a jet in the coalition has happened before during the Syria campaign.)

With the utmost respect, do not know what degree of familiarity or direct knowledge you may have re how military commands and Joint operations commands function. The other nations are serving in a military coalition Initiated, led and most importantly, commanded by the US thru it's Military forces. All tasking, all sorties, in fact any air operations of any kind by a member of that military coalition is under the direction & control of the US command, and the responsibility is held to the US command (as the command authority). A non US State participant's military aircraft cannot unilaterally merely decide to launch a sortie and fly about in the Area of Operations, ie the State of Syria. They cannot individually choose to strike any target without command approval and require direct and in real-time command authorization (US) to release any weapon in a strike. The operational plan, purpose, primary, secondary and opportunity targets of the flight must be pre-approved, even the flight paths for ingress and egress must be co-ordinated and pre-approved. Any participating State forces failing to comply, would be gone in less time than it takes to blink. A participating nations air assets under US command operate at International Law and under the Rules of Law, under the responsibility of the Command authority, the US. Which is the US Military. Therefore the US Military is the legal responsible command and the legally responsible party as such for all coalition forces assets and all their activities whilst the joint coalition and joint US command authority is in existence. This would not be able to be subverted, by flying in an aircraft from outside Syria and falsely claiming Independent of US action, for example.

Sorry, quick posted unproofed.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 13:12 utc | 94

@ Formerly T-Bear | Jan 10, 2017 7:51:27 AM | 93

If your concerned about identity protection/anonymity/digital surveillance and/or degrees of personal information systems security happy to have a discussion in the Open Thread if you wish. Your call. Cheers

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 10 2017 13:17 utc | 95

| @ 95

Not much any can do about Id protection/ etc. a systematic 'fault' but would be interested in your reply in Open Thread.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jan 10 2017 15:26 utc | 96

Bombing civilian infrastructure such as water treatment plants is a war crime.

Posted by: Edward | Jan 10 2017 15:53 utc | 97

NATO's job is to lend legitimacy to war crimes.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Jan 10 2017 16:48 utc | 98

@65/66 jfl.. not sure about a russia/iran split.. i think they see things differently - obviously.. if the usa, saudi arabia, israel, qatar and the western puppets want to, they can continue to keep this war going in syria.. it is quite unfortunate for the syrians, but at present it seems this is happening.. obviously there is a lot at stake for everyone involved and sure looks like a slow move to www3 to me.

@92 pundita.. good post.. i don't know that anyone was claiming the usa bombed the gas company in homs.. howevere i did see this morning on rt that russia is saying a b-52 bombed idlib on january 3rd and took out 20 civilians.. that i find interesting if true.. i was unaware the usa was bombing in the idlib area.. you ask good questions that deserve answers though - the list of the signatories that included the white helmets is a good one of them. thanks.

@94 outraged.. i imagine pundita would know that, but it is good you are pointing it out regardless, as i needed the reminder!

@98 ff.. sure looks that way to me as well.. i see a few lone voices in germany complaining about the build up along russias border saying none of it can bring peace.. nato is all about what you say and more..

Posted by: james | Jan 10 2017 17:08 utc | 99

The US Defense Department announced on January 6 that a strike had killed 20 people in Sarmada, Idlib; those killed were described as Al-Qaeda militants, AFP reported.

The September airstrikes by the US-led coalition killed 62 and injured 100 Syrian soldiers near the Deir ez-Zor airport, a vital supply conduit for the enclave besieged by Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) forces.

specific link from rt..

In November, US Central Command described the incident as an “unintentional, regrettable error,” which was “primarily based on human factors.”

READ MORE: Pentagon chief claims US fighting ISIS alone, Russia doing ‘virtually zero’ in Syria

Russia was notified of the planned strike via the “de-confliction” hotline, but was given the wrong location, said Brigadier General Richard ‘Tex’ Coe, who headed the CENTCOM investigation.

When Russian officers called the hotline to report the strikes were targeting Syrian positions, they were kept on hold for 27 minutes because the US officer who was the designated point of contact was not available. The bombing continued in that interval, according to Coe, and stopped once the Russian message went through.

Posted by: james | Jan 10 2017 17:12 utc | 100

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