Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 10, 2016

What Are The Hearsay Leaks About "Russian Election Hacking" Attempting To Achieve?

UPDATE: Dec 11 1:00am EST

Yesterday I noted below:

[T]he FBI also disagrees with at least parts of the alleged CIA conclusion ... That is important because the FBI, not the CIA, is responsible to investigate cyber related crimes within the U.S.

The Washington Post, which yesterday claimed a united view of the relevant agencies with only "minor disagreements", today caught up with Moon of Alabama. The headline:

FBI and CIA give differing accounts to lawmakers on Russia’s motives in 2016 hacks

The FBI official’s remarks to the lawmakers on the House Intelligence Committee were, in comparison, “fuzzy” and “ambiguous,” suggesting to those in the room that the bureau and the [Central Intelligence A]gency weren’t on the same page, the official said.

WaPo still asserts that it was a "Russian hack" from which the election relevant emails and other papers leaked. No evidence, none at all, has been presented to support that claim. Former UK Ambassador Craig Murray also strongly disagrees with the CIA claims:

As Julian Assange has made crystal clear, the leaks did not come from the Russians. As I have explained countless times, they are not hacks, they are insider leaks – there is a major difference between the two.

Murray claims to know the leaker, an insider person, and asks why the CIA and FBI, who claim to know the person related to Russia who leaked the papers, have then not arrested him or her.

End Update

The White House ordered on Friday a full review if and/or how Russia somehow intervened inappropriately in the U.S. election. It is unclear if and how much of such an review, to be produced by January 20, would be made public.

A few hours later senior members of Congress, aka "U.S. officials", leaked to the Washington Post and the New York Times about the alleged content of a CIA assessment that, they claim, says that the Russian government through some third party hacked the Democratic National Committee and maybe also the Republican committee and officials and leaked some of the hacked stuff to Wikileaks and others.

The real claims of the CIA assessment are not known. Neither is any evidence known on which an assessment is based on. All claims about the alleged CIA report WaPo and NYT report on are hearsay - unverified whisper by anonymous people. Some within the CIA seem to disagree with at least parts of the assessment. WaPo writes:

A senior U.S. official said there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions remain unanswered.

According to someone talking to the NYT the FBI also disagrees with at least parts of the alleged CIA conclusion:

One senior government official, who had been briefed on an F.B.I. investigation into the matter, said that while there were attempts to penetrate the Republican committee’s systems, they were not successful.

That is important because the FBI, not the CIA, is responsible to investigate cyber related crimes within the U.S. .

Glenn Greenwald and Mary Wheeler have written good pieces on these leaks from the CIA: Anonymous Leaks to the WashPost About the CIA’s Russia Beliefs Are No Substitute for Evidence and Unpacking the New CIA Leak: Don’t Ignore the Aluminum Tube Footnote. I have little to add to their writing. They note that the CIA and its former and current leaders are known to be very much on the Clinton side while the FBI is more neutral if not even Trump orientated.

When the head of the Intelligence Community James Clapper made a statement about the alleged Russian hacks some took that as confirmation that such hacks had actually happened. But Clapper's statement  used many weasel words and may have actually said the opposite (see his statement and my translation at the end of this piece). He explicitly made no attribution for any of the potential hacks.

It was the U.S. Department of Homeland Security that tried to hack the election systems of the state of Georgia. How do we know it was not them hacking and leaking the DNC papers?

One minor reason for the leaks now may be that "the Russians did it" exculpates Clinton from being a lousy candidate running a lousy campaign.

But one can think of three bigger reasons why these leaks about the CIA assessment are now happening:

  1. To preempt the results of the official investigation Obama has now ordered. Any diversion of the official results from the alleged CIA assessment results will need extensive public explanation.
  2. To swing the electoral college to vote for Clinton instead of Trump. This would be unprecedented and a coup contradicting the will of the voters. It would lead to political chaos and more. But many Clinton partisans are pressing in that direction and such a dirty business would not be out of character for Hillary Clinton.
  3. Even if neither 1 nor 2 can be achieved the propaganda effect of these leaks will be to dampen any movement of a Trump administration towards more friendly relations with Russia. Any such move by Trump will be responded with a chorus "but Russia hacked our election" even though there has been zero evidence or proof produced that such was indeed the case.

In response to the leaks Trump pointed out that the CIA lied about WMDs in Iraq. That is a decisive point. Indeed the CIA lied about lots of stuff over the years and one must assume that anything that is following a "the CIA says" introduction is a lie or at least an obfuscation.

The true danger, in my view, lies in possible reason 2 for the leaks. If enough delegates in the electoral college can somehow be bribed or otherwise convinced to flip towards electing Clinton we will see violent riots in the streets of many U.S. cities. What would follow thereafter is unpredictable.

Posted by b on December 10, 2016 at 18:24 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Yes, pitchforks and I'm ready!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 10 2016 18:32 utc | 1

2 thumbs up. The cia and truth have nothing in common.

Posted by: jo6pac | Dec 10 2016 18:34 utc | 2

Nobody knows, but Donald Trump—who has been accused of cozying up to Russia—said that “no one knows” who committed the attacks. He said they could even have been done by “someone who weighs 400 pounds who is sitting on a bed.”

Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 10 2016 18:40 utc | 3

Wonder how Oath Keepers and Flynn oriented officers would react to a soft coup..

Posted by: Lozion | Dec 10 2016 18:44 utc | 4

I wouldn't expect riots in the street from the deplorables. I would expect a deep sense of shock to work its way through individuals, the realization that it has really come to this. Then, while the CIA/HRC begins to execute a crackdown on dissent, groups will organize around strong local leaders. Over time, the sage brush rebellion will begin, and organized, disciplined, and, of course, well armed (although that means nothing - starving third world teenagers are well armed) groups will move against local governments. As the federal government brings its vast, deadly resources to bear, fissures will occur as local police and former and current military folks walk across to the side of rebellion. The internal proletariat has been created, the house of cards will fall. There will then be a real opportunity for outside forces to take sides and black players. I don't think it will be so convenient as bottle throwers on the streets of Oakland.

Posted by: coboarts | Dec 10 2016 18:48 utc | 5

I meant "back" players - perhaps a Freudian slip of the keys :-)

Posted by: coboarts | Dec 10 2016 18:52 utc | 6

I surely doubt that point no 2 is the motivation. US electoral and political system is a sham. No transition of any power happens ever in 2-4 years periods at all. It is all a political theater for American sheeple while the same Anglo-American oligarchic regime continues and thrives for over 227 years now and the ruling elites do not want to mess up a good thing going for them.

It is an empire of illusion hence the illusion of rules or principles must be maintained so electoral college as much as it is deeply undemocratic must be maintained to maintain this illusion of American republic.

In fact there are so many chicks on this political play that makes it impossible to rock the boat, namely there is no way that Dems will be able to coronate Hillary with both senate and congress are against her and rules would likely put Paul Ryan as chief executive by blocking Hillary electoral college vote.

There is no time for more details but Hillary POTUS is almost impossible and hence what utterances we hear is just representation of deep division in security apparatus in the US unhappy with Obama rule and his affinity to Islamic terrorists, yes affinity shows by him arming them, and to the GCC despots who finance them.

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 10 2016 18:54 utc | 7

This is truly distressing.

I was out on a group bike ride this morning and a fairly intelligent cohort mentioned this headline as proof that the "Russians did it". I questioned the validity of the claims and his response was "if you cannot not believe the CIA's claims then you are a nihilist and are in the Trump camp along with all of the Breibart camp". As a fan of neither camp, I was absolutely dumbfounded.

This anecdote to me indicates how divided the country is with regard to the results of the election and how everyone is being forced between two false choices. I see no let up of this media war and the long term consequences.

I believe the voice of reason will be the victim to the madness and nothing good will come of it.

Posted by: Michael | Dec 10 2016 19:00 utc | 8

Reason #2 is it. The objective of the recounts was to ensure that they could not be finished by Dec. 13, and thus to prevent Wis, Mi and Pa from being able to certify the election on time. Now that this has failed they have moved on to the next attempt to derail the electoral college.

Huffington Post ( reports that dem supporters are being urged to contact states' attorneys general to "request that the Electoral College voters be enjoined from casting their vote until such time that all formal investigations in Russian hacking conclude".

Their strategy is clear. Derail the electoral college.

Posted by: DH | Dec 10 2016 19:08 utc | 9

"What would follow thereafter is unpredictable."

The 2nd of January, 2016 the site Fort Russ published a prediction of Wolf Messing for 2016 with this paragraph:
"So, according to him, this year the USA will cease to be a superpower, and will be brought down from this position, causing the country to be overlooked. That is, to be in such a state which no one seriously thinks of America as an opponent. It will inflict a crushing blow to the US economy, after which it will simply collapse."

Posted by: Claude | Dec 10 2016 19:08 utc | 10

When I heard about this nonsense yesterday, I could see Hillary and Obama going to federal court to try to stop Trump from becoming with another fascist supreme coup like we had in 2000...

Posted by: james k. sayre | Dec 10 2016 19:14 utc | 11

IMO the attack on "Fake News" is also part of the scheming.

b should add this to his analysis.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2016 19:30 utc | 12

In the event of "Faithless Electors" in the Electoral College refusing to vote for Trump, wouldn't the election then be thrown into the Senate where a Trump majority would be a certainty?

Posted by: chet380 | Dec 10 2016 19:31 utc | 13

thanks b... it is all rumour mill and conjecture, but what isn't conjecture is the ongoing attempt to ostracize russia... now whether trump is a friend of russia's remains to be seen, but clearly the cia are known for lying, as you point out..

i agree with @7 kalen in that i doubt the reason is #2... i read the transcript yesterday from the us state dept daily briefly found here and where the superficial justification for the special "waiver that it is in U.S. national security interest to provide weapons to Syrian rebels".. apparently syria is designated a 'state sponsor of terrorism' and that is all that is needed to green light more war, murder and mayhem from the war party nation.. can anyone tell me how they arrive at this bs? is this what those shekels are supposed to pay for? all countries surrounding israel will be designated a certain way so that the little nation that steers the big nation can continue with this bs 24/7? sure looks like it.

i go with option #4 which you haven't posted - continued and ongoing demon-ization of all things russian until the trump character gets in office, assuming he makes it that far..

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2016 19:31 utc | 14

It has evolved to the point where you can't really name the American sides anymore except to say that it is NOT top/bottom....that is we are not openly in agreement that the global plutocratic families and their tools of private finance are the problem.

Let them eat propaganda!!!!

The bus Americans are being thrown under is Edward Bernay's like brainwashed hate for others but not the elite behind the curtain of deceit. If nothing else you have to be impressed by the effectiveness of the deceit makers.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 10 2016 19:34 utc | 15

OT (sorry, but I really don't care about so-called 'leaks' and 'hacks'):

Trump chooses Exxon CEO Tillerson as Secretary of State.

Kind of makes me wonder...what if we see the emergence of a new confrontation, between a 'fossil fuel' block comprising the US, Russia and OPEC, and a 'renewables' block of China, the EU and pretty much everyone else? Yep, I admit that's a very long shot.

Posted by: smuks | Dec 10 2016 19:36 utc | 16

IMO the continuing effort to install Hillary ("Fake News", "Russia hacked the election", "Not my President", etc.) is primarily due to the Syrian conflict. Realists see that the war is lost, neocons and their sponsors want to double-down.

Those that want to double-down have declared war on the rest of us.

It's time for Trump to be more vocal about US and US-ally's support for extremists.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2016 19:44 utc | 17

Trump lost the election. When the electoral college votes him in, is when the will of the people is trampled. If those electors were decent people, they'd vote for the true winner of the election as president.

But of course lots of people have always disliked this democracy stuff, and much prefer the Constitution which was designed to protect slaveowning, and slaveowners. It's an anti-democratic principle but it's certainly common right-wing politics.

But the notion that the CIA is for Hilary Clinton is just crazy. Forget the CIA hanging her out to dry over Benghazi, letting the Republicans pretend the CIA's fallout with jihadis in Libya was somehow Clinton's fault for doing something which surely had to be bad. Forget the CIA letting BS like Clinton Cash float around hinting Clinton was in treasonous dealings with, gasp! shock! dismay! FOREIGNERS. (Oh we clutch our pearls!) [By the way, if it's sleazy for Clinton to hint Trump is a traitor for "evidence" of this kind, it's every bit as sleazy for the Republicans/conservatives to do it, except maybe first makes it worst." The CIA could have been leaking "assessments" to undercut the Republican/wingnut talking points on these fake scandals.

But even if you forget such obvious stuff, the simple truth is that the CIA "support" for Clinton should have led them to leak this assessment before the election.




Part of the swindle is pretending that Trump won, that Clinton was the biggest liar, that the American people endorse Trump's bigotry, that the Wall Street candidate was Clinton, that the biggest crook was Clinton, that the military and CIA were always in Clinton's pocket. Really it doesn't stop there, it pretends that the Clintons have run things for the last twenty four years. This nonsense is about giving a political amnesty to Bush, a Republican conservative, and Obama, a conservative Democrat who wasn't a Clinton.

Posted by: s | Dec 10 2016 19:44 utc | 18

chet380 @13:

... the election then be thrown into the Senate where a Trump majority would be a certainty?
The establishment is overwhelmingly for Hillary. Quite a few Republicans in the Senate would vote for Hillary over Trump.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2016 19:46 utc | 19

This election was twisted by two of the most outrageous events I have ever seen in a lifetime of watching American elections: 1) Comey’s 9th inning double-tap attack on Hilton, and 2) the WikiLeaks dump of Podesta emails.

Put aside questions of who and why for the moment, what cannot be denied is that: 1) these events happened; 2) they were outrageous; 3) they affected the outcome to the benefit of DTDuck. The USSCt intervention in the 2000 election is the only other event I can think of that was nearly as outrageous, and, of course, the beneficiaries of that outrage were also the Republicans.

Obama, being as thick as he as proven to be, turns this into an attack on Putin. I think if he had any brains he would have taken an objective, above-the-fray approach and triggered an investigation solely on the grounds of “we want to know WTF happened.” The role of Ru is one possibility, but there are many others. Assange obviously had a hand in the WL dump, and he is known to hate the Clintons, so I would start with that theory before going full McCarthy on the Russians. But calling for an investigation in and of itself is not unreasonable.

I would advise Obama, if you’re going to go full frontal on an investigation of undue foreign influence on US elections, start with AIPAC and the Government of Yisrael (GoY). GoY has been controlling the US government ever since JFK and RFK were killed. Netanyahu is laughing his ass off at everybody pointing at Putin, and everybody is pointing at Putin b/c GoY calls the shots in the USG and media.

BTW, I also support Klein’s recount efforts. The idea of crowd-funded confirmation of election results is a great way to use technology to enhance democracy. And while the Michigan courts have said Klien has no standing, seems to me every American voter would have standing to verify the count in every state, if they can raise the resources to do so. Where’s Soros? If the election system can’t stand up to close inspection, then the country is operating on the basis of a massive fraud.

Posted by: IpsoFacto | Dec 10 2016 19:47 utc | 20

#16 Yes! Yeah!

"Tillerson might be the worst secretary of state contender on Trump’s list" says Wapo.
So, he's the best, no doubt!!

Almost all professional anti-Russia "Senior Fellows" are dependent on State Department to fund their lobbying. Tillerson a disaster for them

Deepening Ties Between Exxon and Russia Run Counter to U.S. Efforts to Punish Putin
Russian President Vladimir Putin is seen here awarding ExxonMobil Chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson with the Order of Friendship last year.

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 10 2016 19:53 utc | 21

B asked: "what-are-the-hearsay-leaks-about-russian-election-hacking-attempting-to-achieve"

Obfuscation of the "drain-the-swamp" meme as both "sides" are in support of the elite maintaining control in the US and world wide.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 10 2016 19:55 utc | 22

nothing better to unite a divided country than fear of an enemy, while the arms/militarization lobby - and add to that now the security lobby - rakes in the dough while steering foreign policy in a circuitous route leading back to the banks...

has been standard operating procedure throughout history - e.g., the committee for the present danger v1 & v2.0

Posted by: b real | Dec 10 2016 19:59 utc | 23

s @18:

Trump lost the election.
No. Trump won the election. He lost the popular vote. It's not the same thing.

And we don't really know if, or by how much, he lost the popular vote due to irregularities.

But the notion that the CIA is for Hilary Clinton is just crazy.
"Crazy?" Your hyperbole is telling.
Before .... Before ... Before
Did you forget that:
1) Claims of Russian hacking WERE made before the election;

2) Hillary was overwhelmingly expected to win;

3) and for propaganda to be effective it has to be reinforced ... reinforced ... reinforced with multiple narratives (like "Fake News", and "Not My President").

Part of the swindle...
... was - and still is - to make Trump into the greatest evil.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2016 20:08 utc | 24

W/ respect to B's Point #2, this just in from the Guardian:

“[John] Dean called for the intelligence report on Russia’s role to be made available to the 538 members of the electoral college before 19 December, when they formally vote to elect the next president. “


Chas. Schumer:

"The silence from WikiLeaks and others since election day has been deafening. That any country could be meddling in our elections should shake both political parties to their core.”

Ha, ha, ha . . . Israel-firster Schumer bitching about other countries screwing around with US political system. Get the joke?

Posted by: IpsoFacto | Dec 10 2016 20:21 utc | 26

Tucker Congressman Adam Schiff Accuses Tucker Carlson (a well-known TV Newshow Host) of being a Russian Sympathizer

Don't miss the last two minutes where Carlson challenges Schiff to say that the Russians were behind the Podesta hack and Schiff will not do so.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2016 20:22 utc | 27

Why is the focus on the Russians?

What about other countries that unduly influence US elections? With hacking or money or sympathizers in key roles?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 10 2016 20:24 utc | 28

It is my belief that we are witnessing a war between CIA and client NGO's and the US military. I have never heard a Presidential candidate assert that he is running at the behest of retired Generals and Admirals. Evidence of a soft military coup is everywhere but in the MSM (Mainstream Melodrama.

Witness Congressional Representative & US Army Major Tulsi Gabbard's bill to forbid the use of taxpayer funds being used to fund various terrorist groups ...

Here is the oath that Tulsi Gabbard took when she was commissioned

“I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.”

(DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

Major Gabbard obviously takes her oath seriously!

Also President elect Trump has appointed several retired Generals to cabinet level posts,

just my opinion

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 10 2016 20:25 utc | 29

ot - further to my comments @14, i see pat lang has a post up highlighting the inanity of the usa- war party) position here, with a solution provided by tulsi gabbard.. what are the chances of that passing and a bit of sanity to creep into the us political environment? i give it low odds, but i love the fact she is trying..

Posted by: james | Dec 10 2016 20:26 utc | 30

More good news from Syria. The SAA, with a big assist from the Russian Air Force, appears to have beaten ISIS back at Palmyra. See:




Posted by: Robin | Dec 10 2016 20:34 utc | 31

Maybe b, especially point 3 is convincing. But I do not understand why you're still that optimistic about Tronald. Is he not preparing the most right wing admin of all times? It goes without saying that the other candidate would have done everything to start WWIII, but then again; it was a choice between cancer and plague, and the fact that plague won doesn't make me happy.

Posted by: Pnyx | Dec 10 2016 20:49 utc | 32

"Yes, pitchforks and I'm ready!"

You'll need more than a pitchfork.

Posted by: perimetr | Dec 10 2016 20:53 utc | 33

If the choice was between cancer and plague, then what won with Trump was cancer, i.e., a slower path to destruction, with the possibility of a cure being found in time.

Nuclear war with Russia would have destroyed the human race and advanced life on earth in very short order.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 10 2016 20:57 utc | 34

whistleblowers simply don't have the money to pay for adds in the major cities tubes/on buses + full pages in MSM that would just reproduce (in big letters) the wikileaked emails showing that politicians in the US decide everything either with Israel or the GCC, or both.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2016 20:57 utc | 35


I resolved today I would not look at the slimey underbelly of life in USArya, and instead look at the silver lining in the clouds, ...and indeed, a gorgeous sunrise rose over freshly fallen snow, the air was crisp and alive, the sun was brilliantly blinding. Had a great cup of espresso from a perky girl in a bikini, danced around at the gas station washing my windows, sang through the grocery store buying hamburger and bread, ... then came home to the news that Tillerson was SecState and Bolton is Asst SecState. Congratulations to Mr. Trump and Mr. Tillerson,... however, did you not see the footnote on that announcement?

That rabbinally-crazed NeoCon and former UN Third UnderSecretary John Bolton 'will be in charge of day-to-day operations' at State. That means Bolton will run State exactly like Clinton ran State, tied at the hip to the CIA Black Ops in Libya and Syria and God knows where else Crusader warplan, and that bodes great NeoCon evil for USArya.

Bolton will massage and manipulate every communication that Tillerson receives, spinning it with a CIA/MIC war theme, so that Tillerson will be reduced to the facile spox role of a Kerry, reading from a Bolton script, like WTF am I doing in Beijing threatening 1.3 billion people? Bolton has neither the experience nor the contacts, neither the wisdom nor the equanimity, to be in-charge of the CIAs country club caddie shack, much less in defacto control over State.

Where yesterday I was pulling my savings out of broker-banks over the Goldman Mob's now total control of finance; today, I'm pulling my savings out of the US entirely, selling my house, moving to a rental by the airport light-rail, selling my vehicle for a leave-behind bicycle, with a full-fare open ticket in hand to anywhere, beside my bug-out bag, my passport, my credit cards, my laptop, my inoculations records and my TWIC.

Oh, and a comfortable pair of walking shoes. You can never have too many shoes, lol.

"I'm obviously aware that people are quite focused on the economy rather than foreign policy issues, but that is something that should and can be altered as people see the nature of the grave threats around the world that we face. We estimate that once Iraq acquires fissile material -- it could fabricate a nuclear weapon within one year."
John Bolton, dutifully reading from the CIA's Yellow Cake playbook


All we need is Ari Fleischer in the role of Bolton's spox to the media, lol. "Mr. Fleischer, please come to the red phone service desk, you have a call waiting." It's all monkey-brain now!

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 10 2016 20:59 utc | 36

I'm sure there's levels upon levels of deniability between Putin and the perpetrators but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. Qui bono?

Posted by: peter | Dec 10 2016 20:59 utc | 37

the video here (shot from a far distance) shows that the explosion in Istanbul's stadium is huge

Posted by: Mina | Dec 10 2016 20:59 utc | 38

These leaks have nothing to do with the Electoral College or any chance of swinging the 'election'. Rather, they are yet one more childish lashing out by the American empire that has been defeated in Syria. Hence UN grandstanding to force Russia to veto ridiculous bills, approving more weapons deliveries to the losing terrorists to try to stave off victory for the Syrian people during Obama's end of term, more WADA accusations against Russia, etc. In sum, they add up to, "wah wah wah wah." Perhaps the true exceptionalism is the exceptional ability to pout and cry when events don't go the empire's way.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Dec 10 2016 21:00 utc | 39

In my opinion this is an inside war between the ousted ruling elites of which the Clinton and Bush dynasties are part of the same group along with ALL of their employees on the payroll (lobbyists, academics, Medias etc) that have been in power and ruled and thieved for over 25 years.
These people do NOT want to lose their ownership of the US ship of state as it has ginormous perks. Obviously they are willing to fight to the death.

Trump seeks to bring in another set of oligarchs.

There is no telling what will happens but either way, the citizenry loses.

Posted by: linda amick | Dec 10 2016 21:15 utc | 40

The Russians and Syrians are wiping out the remains of the CIAs Best Fucking Friends, al Nusrah et al. in Aleppo. Why shouldn't the CIA be pissed off with Putin? Perhaps this is nthing more than revenge. If the CIA claimed it was the Syrians nobody would believe them but the Russians are a different matter.

Posted by: Ghostship | Dec 10 2016 21:18 utc | 41

Did the US military and the Russian military covertly 'under the table' make a deal to attack the US WarParty and its various foreign backers?

Since at least 2003 under the Bu$h II dynasty oil has been appropriated in Iraq and Syria, piped and trucked through Turkey and sold at below wholesale for pennies on the dollar, to the City of the District Columbia, City of London (which includes Tel Aviv,) City of Rome, France and other NATO parasitic Euro Colonials.

Could the continuing trumpeting (pun not intended) of the primacy of Russian armaments just be a justification for non US intervention or is it a smokescreen intended to give the US military, not to be confused with the US Military Industrial Complex, a tactical reason to not directly attack Russian Forces on the ground?

There are several instances in Syria where the US Air Forces have bombed targets on the ground in Syria without any reaction by Russian forces. Is there an agreement that exists between us and them?

These unsubstantiated attacks on Russia like the election hacking scheme are beyond laughable. It seems that CIA/NGOs tantrum is all they are capable of. They have lost their war against the Constitution. And lost it badly.

Jut me opinion

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 10 2016 21:21 utc | 42

What would follow thereafter is unpredictable


...Who knows how America might end up? Torturing people? Attacking other countries that pose no threat to it whatsoever? Indefinitely imprisoning people in camps? Assassinating anyone the president deems a “terrorist” or an “enemy combatant” with the tacit approval of the majority of Americans? Surveilling everyone’s phone calls, emails, tweets, and reading and web-browsing habits?

Imagine the dystopia we would all be living in … if things like that were considered “normal.”


Posted by: john | Dec 10 2016 21:29 utc | 43

Robin @32

The attack on Palmyra coincided with poor weather than negated air cover. The attack was spread over many location to the north, east and south indicating pre-planning. Their controllers with access to weather satellites probably gave them the go ahead. However, the weather cleared on Friday allowing Mi-28 ground attack helicopters to fly out of the Tayfoor airbase. These are routing the takfiris exposed at the end of their supply lines.

Posted by: Yonatan | Dec 10 2016 21:33 utc | 44

ALBerto I agree. It is also clear the cease fire agreements between the army and the Russians in Syria were deliberately sabotaged on at least two occasions. This supports the view that there is a split between the CIA and the army. Good luck to trump and his friends. He is not someone I would normally support but it does appear that he is an outsider to both the Republicans and Democrats and may indeed be intent on draining the swamp. A very difficult road ahead as the corruption amongst the powerful in the USA is widespread. Karma is the word that comes to mind if one looks at what the USA has done to other countries around the world.

Posted by: Ike | Dec 10 2016 21:36 utc | 45


Well, that was quick! Either Zuk just read my post above about Bolton, or my last FB post linking a YT 2008 Economic Meltdown, watch out for Goldman's new control over WADC, hyperinflation in Venezuela now out of control, and Modi's takedown of India's economy.

Here's what I got: << CHECKPOINT BLOCK
"Someone asked us to review your profile because it might not be following our Community Standards. We'll need to review your file on Facebook with you by Saturday, Dec 17, 2016."

"Someone?" Reminds me when Billmon outed me to my employer's IT desk for posting links to a right-wing commentary, and I got frog-marched out of a senior position for poking the Bear. Page-Brin, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Sulzberger, Soros, telling you, b, do not play with fire.
The Zio's are gonna put us all into ghettos, financially, then cut our SS / MC. It's Go-Time.

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 10 2016 21:47 utc | 46

To this old IT pro it is obvious that they have zero evidence.

The intelligence agency jackals are doing what they always do: making it up as they go.

Their agenda with the Killary was more death and destruction.

Now they are trying to redirect fear and hatred of Trump against Russia.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Dec 10 2016 21:50 utc | 47

I know this isn't a general discussion thread, but I just want to drop in to say that I posted a comment over on Louis Proyect's site on the most recent post he had about Syria (which is nearly a month and a half old; he's gone very silent on the topic of late) asking him if he still stood by the claim that the low estimates of civilians in East Aleppo weren't reliable now that events have shown they were very close to the reality. Not only did he not respond, but I checked on it this morning to discover that my comment had been edited to contain an anti-semitic insult. I didn't even know Proyect was Jewish (nor do I care that he is). What a fucking worm this guy is.

Posted by: Merasmus | Dec 10 2016 21:54 utc | 48

Hannuka is on 25th, and the City of London Crown Corporation HMS government officials warned a few days ago about big "ISIS" attacks in the UK soon - expect false flag "fireworks" to re-launch war on the MENA region and Russia alliance around that time, accompanied by more police state policies being pushed.

Why is the lame-scream media pushing the "ISIS" term instead of more appropriate "Daesh"? Has this been a smear campaign against the ancient goddess (aka Gaia, St. Mary)?

Posted by: ProPeace | Dec 10 2016 22:14 utc | 49

@Merasmus | Dec 10, 2016 4:54:33 Hasbara, sayanim becoming more desperate...

Rumor has it there is a few dozen Israeli commandos, special ops, advisors trapped in Aleppo.

Posted by: ProPeace | Dec 10 2016 22:16 utc | 50

@chipnik | Dec 10, 2016 4:47:13 Why do you comment on the internets while in work?

That's unprofessional.

Posted by: ProPeace | Dec 10 2016 22:19 utc | 51


Everyone @ MoA uses an email or clickable link to post on MoA. Why not set up a PayPal account? Some of the money could be used to upgrade your GUI (graphic user interface) with the rest to compensate your intellectual content?

PS - my sincerest apologies on nearly single handedly destroying your wonderful info blog.

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 10 2016 22:22 utc | 52

@ALberto | Dec 10, 2016 4:21:59

One of the most important achievements of Obama and his administration has been removing from the Strategic Command personnel deeply involved with religious cults believing unshakably in unquestioned support for Israel so as to speed up The Second Coming and Rupture.

Posted by: ProPeace | Dec 10 2016 22:24 utc | 53


Posted by: pubumwei | Dec 10 2016 22:25 utc | 54

He was never proved wrong.

And this shameful spectacle of "freedom loving" America aids, abets, supplies with weapons, money and training to medieval head choppers, should make people puke.

What US administration especially Obama is doing is beyond pale of any acceptable human conduct.

The silence of congress millionaire mofos and millions of American cowards hipnotized by lying MSM is deafening is constitute a direct indictment of the murderous ideology of American exemptionalism as murderous as Stalinism and Hitlerism.

Does it really take a flat tv Persona like Trump to try to turn back this sick tsunami of warmongering and insanity.
Is this Sodom and Gomorrah where we are all going?

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 10 2016 22:26 utc | 55

It is not Clinton who is destined but rather Gore with a war cabinet picked by the Donald which gets the nod after Jan 20 next year. Crucially Sundance opens 19th Jan in Utah. The constitution hangs by a thread and LDS elders according to the white horse prophecy step in the save it. Old mittens thought himself the white horse...and yet his competitor al buraq beat buraq is the name of the white stead in muslem eschatology who sets this up for their end of time shindig at dabiq in Syria.

Posted by: pubumwei | Dec 10 2016 22:48 utc | 56

Nihil novi sub sole: new_york_times_headline_1974

Also interesting Israeli mafia trafficking Syrian children's body organs

Posted by: ProPeace | Dec 10 2016 22:49 utc | 57

Russians and hacking. I'm still down with this idea.

Posted by: jo6pac | Dec 10 2016 22:55 utc | 58

@42 wbl, 'Perhaps the true exceptionalism is the exceptional ability to pout and cry when events don't go the empire's way.'

make that the cia for the empire above and i agree completely. trump is as much the empire's man as anyone, the problem is that he doesn't know that the potus works for the cia, the 'wisemen' who've been pulling the strings since 1947 - pulling the pins and tossing the grenades is probably more like it.

this is the cia's attempt to make the new adminstration acknowledge the lay of the land. the cis is wedded to its plans for regime changes / death, devastation, and destgruction in general to achieve its aims - and to maintain its power and control over us policy, foreign and domestic, and its going to do what it takes to accomplish just that.

the evil cia does a lot more than pout and cry when it doesn't get its way, though. if this doesn't work the next move will be assassination. just like jfk. and they'll blame the russians, of course, their traditional enemy. just like last time.

the rump needs to pull the plug at langley ... the sound we all need desperately to hear right now is 'daisy, daisy, give me your answer do, i'm half crazy, all for the love of you ...'

the monstrous cia has been a cancer in the governing apparatus of the usa since 26 july 1947 and it looks to me like its now or never for it to be excised forever from the body politic. the rump needs give the rogue machine its answer.

the rump can kill it with his fountain pin - and must, it'll be a matter of life-and-death, both his and ours or its - on 21 january 2017. kill the rogue before it kills all of us.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 10 2016 23:22 utc | 59


so that'd put me at b's door number 3. but if the challenge is not met, if the cia is not finally put down, the rump's reign will be just like the nobel peace prize laureate's : ddd&d, all the way down.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 10 2016 23:36 utc | 60

Obama is right and smart. To stop rumors, a serious investigation is necessary.
The CIA will have to stop spreading information that could affect the official investigation.

Posted by: virgile | Dec 10 2016 23:37 utc | 61

Just another bunch if sad sacks who crave normalcy

Posted by: pubumwei | Dec 10 2016 23:45 utc | 62

The good news is the Clintonite neocon regime is in panic. Their usual double-down approach to everything. It appears Trump - for his own security - aims to clean out the Augean Stables. If Tillerson is SecState a lot of people are going to lose their jobs.

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Dec 10 2016 23:46 utc | 63

USA is falling apart. What more evidence does one need than the stench of decomposition emanating from the Beltway? I call it "ukrainization" of America, where the hand of Moscow is everywhere, all the time.

Posted by: telescope | Dec 11 2016 0:33 utc | 64

Robert McMaster@66 Tillerson’s nomination could face intense scrutiny in the Senate, considering his years of work in Russia and the Middle East on behalf of the multinational petroleum company. Already, two leading Republican hawks, Sens. John McCain (Ariz.) and Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.), have voiced concerns about Tillerson’s serving as the nation’s top diplomat because of his ties to Putin.
I can hear McCains first question "Have you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party.

Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 11 2016 0:38 utc | 65

#1 hit the nail on the thumb.

Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 11 2016 0:43 utc | 66

December 10, 2016 YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP ...

CIA says the Election was hacked by Russia most likely with the help of Crimea. Heh!

Trump junta replies 'Yes we too believe the selection was hacked by Russia to favor Clinton forces.' We have the evidence but will await CIA publishing their information first.


Posted by: ALberto | Dec 11 2016 0:49 utc | 67

Yes, pitchforks and I'm ready!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 10, 2016 1:32:39 PM | 1

I made some investigation on the pricing of Epipen and related product, the issue that made some splash in USA, prompting some to mention pitchfork. As I know Polish, I checked the prices in Poland. Number one, Epipen is four times cheaper (two times? one issue is if it is sold in pairs or not) there than in USA before the price was doubled. Number two, it is not widely used because insurance fully covers the cost of an equivalent product that is five times cheaper than Epipen. That raises the issue why the cheaper product is not used in USA? One reason is a very intricate strategy of drug companies to manipulate the process of approving and recommending drugs and devices (the cost of medication in Epipen is about a dollar, the cost of the device to deliver it, increase from 300 to 600).

But perhaps another reason is the small availability of good cheap pitchforks in USA! In Poland and USA you can get a good quality pitchfork for about 50 dollars. But given a large number of small farms in Poland, thrifty peasants can buy a much cheaper
domestic product.
for about 12 dollars (9 plus shipping). After some sharpening, this tool can perforate a torso of a class enemy in a blink.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 11 2016 0:58 utc | 68

Here is the latest from the US government, courtesy of ZH, on why the need for fear mongering

The link:

How long until Americans cannot view or participate in the MoA community? 6 months? Will ZH get shut down also?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2016 1:05 utc | 69

Well dont really know either to cry or laugh at you Americans!When your 'govenment' raped killed and annihilated millions in mena in your name and with your tax payment why do you now think that the said 'govenment' cant do the same to you?Maybe history is a subject that doesn't enter the 'american' brain!

Posted by: Nur Adlina | Dec 11 2016 1:06 utc | 70

@73 na

you're right there. 'history' is living in the past, americans live in the future. the horror of that future is beginning to dawn on us.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 11 2016 1:11 utc | 71

@67 telescope, 'I call it "ukrainization" of America, where the hand of Moscow is everywhere, all the time.'

absolutely. all the vile tricks of the cia coming home to be utilized against americans themselves. far too few will recognize the fact.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 11 2016 1:15 utc | 72

@66 Robert McM, 'It appears Trump - for his own security - aims to clean out the Augean Stables.'

absolutely. the cia would be much more comfortable with pence than with the rump. it's him or the cia. he can kill the agency with the stroke of his pen. and he'll have to in order to survive his presidency.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 11 2016 1:19 utc | 73

Most terrifying words in the English language are: "We are SAS and we're here to help!"

Christmas terror: SAS troops will guard shoppers from imminent attack

Remember this? British special forces caught dressed as Arab 'terrorists'

Anyhoo, so how the gold repatriation from Bank f England have been going on?

Posted by: ProPeace | Dec 11 2016 1:31 utc | 74

I don't believe the election will be overturned by the Electoral College. That's nonsense; it's never gonna happen; period.

I do believe that the CIA is a dangerous organization that fabricates intelligence when it suits it. The CIA is like a rogue junta.

JFK mistrusted the CIA and was absolutely right to do so. JFK also mistrusted the Israelis with very good reason and was smart to do so; albeit, it turned out badly for him to try to act against both.

The media is bellowing that it's wrong for a President to question the CIA - BULLSHIT. A President should always be skeptical of agencies and mind you, foreign Lobbies, with too much power! Similarly, in the case of Israel, a President should question why a puny triangle in the Negev desert exerts so much influence over the largest military power in the world? But since JFK, none do.

The difference between JFK and Trump is staaaagering! Trump only criticizes and mistrusts the messenger when he doesn't like what he hears. If the CIA said that there was no Russian hacking and the election result is beyond reproach; he'd be sending them chocolates and flowers!

Here's what one of the most dangerous men on the planet has to say about Trump:

Who had more to gain from a Trump presidency?

Who stated?: America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won't get in our way...We’re benefiting from one thing and that is the attack on the twin towers and Pentagon and the American struggle in Iraq. These events swung American public opinion in our favor.

If Wikileaks got the emails; someone had to do the job? Now, you have to ask yourselves: who had the most to gain with a Trump victory? Which is the most tech-saavy country; inventor of Stuxnet? Israel knew 9/11 was going to happen before anyone, because it had two Telecom companies spying inside the U.S., and the depth of their involvement still remains a lingering question. One thing is clear though: Israel couldn't have been more pleased with the change that 9/11 produced in the American psyche and Netanyahu bragged about that.

Israel can do cyber false flag better than anyone. They could have killed two birds with one stone; first getting rid of Hillary who would never tear up the Iran deal, and then pinning the hack on Russia as revenge for interfering in Syria. Who had access to the DNC and knew there was something questionable there that could swing public opinion? Zionists exist in both parties.

If Hillary won, Netanyahu would be stuck with the Iran deal for 8 years! Whenever Israelis face a threat or pivotal impasse of some kind they have no scruples about acting extra judicially to neutralize the threat or force an issue critical to their interests and would not hesitate to do so.

So, in fact, if the Israelis did this, there would be three victims, and three gains for Israel here: 1. Hillary, who would never undo a difficult deal negotiated by a fellow Democrat who helped her campaign tirelessly, would be out; 2.Putin who messed with the Zionist plan for Syria would get all the blame, and most importantly, 3. Trump who promised to make Jerusalem the Zionist capital and tear up the Iran deal, must therefore win, and Netanyahu will ensure he keeps his promises and knows who he's indebted to most.

Now, maybe you think - outrageous. Really? Again, who had the most to gain, who had access to the DNC, and wouldn't think twice of doing what's necessary to rescue and advance Zionism?

Of course the media will never look in that direction; and the CIA are no where as smart as Israel's spy network to get the facts.

I know, it's only a theory, but when you have three important goals to accomplish, that's what I call the party with the most to gain.

The Zionist media are up in arms that a foreign entity might have tipped the election to one side. However, if it that foreign entity were ISRAEL, would they be as vocal and outraged? Only because this is pinned squarely on Russia are they harping on this point.

The ideal outcome for Zionists happened: the Iran deal will over, the Zionist capital in Israel will be Jerusalem, Putin is the villain who meddled in the election (and Syria)and Trump is in Israel’s debt. What could be better for Zionism?

Think. America can be easily moved…these events swung American public opinion in our favor. And so it is; once again.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 11 2016 1:40 utc | 75


They introduced a bill combatting BDS.
Link to HR4514
They passed the bill on Russian propaganda sites HR6393.
Link to HR6393
They passed the bill on Syria that includes consideration of a no-fly zone.
Link to HR5732

Welcome to the Zionization of America.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 11 2016 2:26 utc | 76

Maybe Trump already knows Tillerson won't make it and that's why he's choosing uber-Neocon John Bolton Deputy SoS. That's how you sneak a Neocon in through the back door. Republicans love Bolton! They'll reject Tillerson and Bolton will take over and Trump gets the choice that wasn't palatable, but the one he really wanted all along (even when he was campaigning).

Trump's cabinet: MIC, Oligarchs and Neocons-in-waiting

Posted by: Circe | Dec 11 2016 2:41 utc | 77

Why bother w the unconvincing "Russia hacked?"
-- Causes more polarization, between those who believe it & those who don't.

-- More importantly, it's in support of "fake news" (censorship) which is a serious move.

-- Also, the reason for such an unconvincing accusation is in Russia & Putin:

November of 2010, Putin wrote an editorial for Suddeutsche Zeitung. He urged No more tariffs. No more visas. Vastly more economic cooperation between Russia and the European Union.

"We propose the creation of a harmonious economic community stretching from Lisbon to Vladivostok," Putin writes. "In the future, we could even consider a free trade zone or even more advanced forms of economic integration. The result would be a unified continental market with a capacity worth trillions of euros."

"The proposal comes as Putin travels to Germany on Thursday for a two-day visit, including a Friday meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. On Wednesday, Russia and the EU reached an important agreement on the elimination of tariffs on raw materials such as wood. The deal was an important prerequisite for the EU dropping its opposition to Russian membership in the World Trade Organization. Moscow is hoping to become a member in 2011."

While we applaud the breakup of the EU, recogizing it as a force which eats the liberty and economic prosperity of Europeans, Putin wants Russia to join it., and NATO as well.

Putin at Valdai in 2015
"I am certain that if there is a will, we can restore the effectiveness of the international and regional institutions system. We do not even need to build anything anew, from the scratch; this is not a “greenfield,” especially since the institutions created after World War II are quite universal and can be given modern substance, adequate to manage the current situation.
"We need a new global consensus of responsible forces. It’s not about some local deals or a division of spheres of influence in the spirit of classic diplomacy, or somebody’s complete global domination. I think that we need a new version of interdependence. We should not be afraid of it. On the contrary, this is a good instrument for harmonising positions"

Putin supports the Rule of Law-- thru the Rockefeller-controlled UN. He's for national sovereignty but never speaks of the desirability for nations to regain trade sovereignty, let alone economic, immigration or currency sovereignty.

An opposition must have an opposing vision. Otherwise, what is it opposing? Is it enough that it opposes US aggression as a means to bring about the shared vision of a regionally-administered global oligarchy? Is it enough that Russia's 1% have to fight the West's 1% to keep 74% of the wealth of Russia?

The hacking accusation is not meant to persuade us that it's true-- but only to reinforce our feeling that there is opposition between Russia and the West: That Russia opposes the global tyranny which is progressing to completion. That we need do nothing but have faith in our minds in Putin and Russia.

I hope I'm wrong guys. Can anybody find any words of Putin's which speak of the desirability of reversing any part of global governance?

Posted by: Penelope | Dec 11 2016 2:41 utc | 78

An excellent piece in Russia Insider;

Eva Bartlett speaks truth to power, thereby busting the western media wide open.
I would term this a must listen/watch.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Dec 11 2016 2:55 utc | 79

Craig Murray, the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, who is a close associate of Assange, called the CIA claims “bullshit”, adding: “They are absolutely making it up.”
“I know who leaked them,” Murray said. “I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.
As Julian Assange has made crystal clear, the leaks did not come from the Russians. As I have explained countless times, they are not hacks, they are insider leaks – there is a major difference between the two. And it should be said again and again, that if Hillary Clinton had not connived with the DNC to fix the primary schedule to disadvantage Bernie, if she had not received advance notice of live debate questions to use against Bernie, if she had not accepted massive donations to the Clinton foundation and family members in return for foreign policy influence, if she had not failed to distance herself from some very weird and troubling people, then none of this would have happened.

The continued ability of the mainstream media to claim the leaks lost Clinton the election because of “Russia”, while still never acknowledging the truths the leaks reveal, is Kafkaesque.

Posted by: mauisurfer | Dec 11 2016 3:25 utc | 80

These accusations of Russia meddling in American affairs have the Zionist fingerprints all over it. Although it is argued that Trump is a good friend of Netanyahu and thus the Israelis have that angle covered, they would much prefer a President beholden to them as Obama was. Trump has put 'hard men', men likely harder than himself in charge of Defence, Homeland Security and now the State. These are not the kind of men impressed with puny Israel. Add to that, one only has to look at the ethnic background of those leading the charge, that the Jews have as usual let their hatred for the Russians get ahead of them.

Posted by: Ivan | Dec 11 2016 3:29 utc | 81

Pitch forks are a metaphor for revolution. Revolution, bloody, nasty, deathly is a necessity in changing the system. A coup is not likely to be vile and violent enough to force a complete change. Maybe a nuclear exchange that gets totally out of control is what we need to hope for. If only 1 or 2% of the earth's population survive, perhaps the mutant remainders will be able to function in harmony with the universe and NOT be totally dedicated to the rape of the non-human world?

Well, let us hope ...

Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 11 2016 3:29 utc | 82

IpsoFacto, yeah, you're right. If you're going to speak of interference for goodness sake speak of Israel.
Chet 380 & Jackrabbit,

Two of the four faithless-threatening electors are Democrats Robert Satiacum and Bret Chiafalo , who supported Sanders & can't bear to vote for Hillary. Two are Republicans Baoky Vu and Chris Suprun who can't vote for Trump, except Suprun has waffled back to Trump I think.

Trump has 306 electors to Clinton's 232.
It's unlikely there'll be a change. I think one plot has Kucinich stepping in to take some of Trumps electors plus all of Hillary's to put him above 270.
If somehow, nobody gets 270 electors, the House chooses the President & the Senate the VP. But none of this is going to happen.

Posted by: Penelope | Dec 11 2016 3:31 utc | 83


Although it is argued that Trump is a good friend of Netanyahu and thus the Israelis have that angle covered, they would much prefer a President beholden to them as Obama was.

Wrong. Netanyahu never liked Obama while Trump said he would tear up the Iran deal on day one and move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem; therefore acknowledging it as the Zionist capital of Israel.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 11 2016 3:34 utc | 84

As numerous commentators have noted, winning the popular vote in a country with an Electoral College is essentially meaningless. In the US, the Dems start off with the enormous advantage of California and New York State already in the bag. Republican voters in California would not feel motivated to vote against an insurmountable head start. That alone should have cost Republicans about a million votes. Trump played the ground game well in the battleground states where he had to flip a few hundred thousand votes. He won fair and square by the rules of the game.

Posted by: Ivan | Dec 11 2016 3:38 utc | 85

@72, Zerohedge is safe. They're Libertarians, hunkering down by their cotton bales, squirrel rifles locked and loaded. Claiming to be apolitical freedom fighters. ie No threat to the Reptilians.

Posted by: ruralito | Dec 11 2016 3:48 utc | 86

Geez ....


Plausible I suppose ... I give it 7 out of 10.

b real so good to see you post. Miss the old moon bats.

In full agreement w/ psychohistorian @15

What a spectacle of P.T. Barnum variety. On with the show!

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 11 2016 4:01 utc | 87

@ rualito who assures me that ZH is safe in the coming propaganda wars.....thanks, I think

Maybe the name stays the same but the "more" than Naked Capitalism provides will be reigned in a bit.

I like the meme "DRAIN THE SWAMP". I think it is a bit of language poetry that can evolve to connect many disaffected parts of our species. It provides some focus to build from. Us pond scum have to use the little media they haven't taken away to bring people together around concepts to move forward with.

Back to the dishes and loud Blues songs.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2016 4:08 utc | 88

Sorry for not providing the streaming Blues link


Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2016 4:09 utc | 89

Fuck, not Bolton.. Rand said he wont vote for him as sec of state, does the senate also have a role in approving deputy positions?

Posted by: Lozion | Dec 11 2016 4:09 utc | 90

@35 Trump is a big unknown. I think Paul Craig Roberts said it best - give Trump 6 months and then form an opinion. I'm not too optimistic however; Trump's policies could flop and the hawks could weasel their warmongering in (IRAN + CHINA + ????)

For the moment, I think Tillerson is a far far better pick than Guilliani, Romney or Bolton. I hope that he will acquire the position. He seems to be smart, but also seems to have good character (considering.)

Of course, the inauguration is a few weeks off, so the concern about a soft coup are real ones, especially when the CIA is throwing out the Russia claims.

Posted by: aaaa | Dec 11 2016 4:11 utc | 91

Makes a ton of sense for ISIS to mount a huge offensive at the edge of their areas of control while their core areas of Mosul and Raqqah are under direct attack. As Yonatan said....their supply lines are ridiculously stretched in Palmyra. Kind of makes you wonder who makes these decisions as if we didn't already know.

Posted by: bigmango | Dec 11 2016 4:40 utc | 92

psychohistorian | Dec 10, 2016 11:09:35 PM | 92

Thanks for that knkx link.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Dec 11 2016 4:58 utc | 93

>>>> Robin | Dec 10, 2016 3:34:00 PM | 32
SOHR is widely reported as claiming that ISIS has recaptured Palmyra although according to a report in Sputnik News, the SAA claims to have full control over Palmyra.

Syrian Army Pushes Daesh Out of Palmyra, Regains Full Control Over City - Source

In any sane society this would mean the end of SOHR as a source for the MSM.

Posted by: Ghostship | Dec 11 2016 5:01 utc | 94

Senate Quietly Passes The "Countering Disinformation And Propaganda Act"

. . .the Act will i) greenlight the government to crack down with impunity against any media property it deems "propaganda", and ii) provide substantial amounts of money fund an army of "local journalist" counterpropaganda, to make sure the government's own fake news drowns that of the still free "fringes."

So while packaged politely in a veneer of "countering disinformation and propaganda", the bill, once signed by Obama, will effectively give the government a full mandate to punish, shut down or otherwise prosecute, any website it deems offensive and a source of "foreign government propaganda from Russia, China or other nations." And since there is no formal way of proving whether or not there is indeed a foreign propaganda sponsor, all that will be sufficient to eliminate any "dissenting" website, will be the government's word against that of the website. One can be confident that the US government will almost certainly prevail in every single time.

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 11 2016 5:04 utc | 95

@ V. Arnold about KNKX link for Sat/Sun Blues

Don't look too close at the organization but it recently became a spark of socialism......shhhhhhh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2016 5:05 utc | 96

psychohistorian | Dec 11, 2016 12:05:03 AM | 99

You mean the, cough, NPR bit?
As long as I don't have to listen to their faux news, I'm fine; great music.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Dec 11 2016 5:12 utc | 97

@ V. Arnold about the cough

6 hours of Blues Sat and Sun and 24X7 Jazz24 ....a little repetitive but they mostly have live staff...Dick Stein is a treat in my evenings.

PBS and NPR ...You just take off the first letter of each to understand....grin

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2016 5:20 utc | 98

psychohistorian | Dec 11, 2016 12:20:58 AM | 101

LOL, how true, very good, I might add...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Dec 11 2016 5:30 utc | 99

There's something very fishy about the choices of Rex Tillerson and John Bolton for SoS and Deputy SoS respectively.

Tillerson has major potential conflicts of interest that the Senate will scrutinize including the award he received from Putin. I'm seriously questioning how Tillerson will get Senate approval. On the other hand, John Bolton, is very popular with most Republicans and hawkish Democrats and will have no problem whatsoever.

I believe this strange combination is a red flag that perfectly illustrates Trump's strategy, which is one of the following:

1. Either Trump deliberately chose someone with close ties to Russia and Putin because he knows he won't be approved by the Senate, and his first choice from the start, John Bolton, will pass with flying colors;

2. Or William Engdahl is right that the Neocon strategy is pivoting and adapting to present circumstances:

His job will be to reposition the United States for them to reverse the trend to disintegration of American global hegemony, to, as the Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz Project for the New American Century put it in their September, 2000 report, “rebuild America’s defenses.”

To do that preparation, a deception strategy that will fatally weaken the developing deep bonds between Russia and China will be priority. It’s already begun. We have a friendly phone call from The Donald to Vladimir the Fearsome in Moscow. Russian media is euphoric about a new era in US-Russia relations after Obama. Then suddenly we hear the war-mongering NATO head, Stoltenberg, suddenly purr soothing words to Russia. Float the idea that California Congressman and Putin acquaintance, Dana Rohrabacher, is leaked as a possible Secretary of State. It’s classic Kissinger Balance of Power geopolitics–seem to ally with the weaker of two mortal enemies, Russia, to isolate the stronger, China. Presumably Vladimir Putin is not so naïve or stupid as to fall for it, but that is the plot of Trump’s handlers. Such a strategy of preventing the growing Russia-China cooperation was urged by Zbigniew Brzezinski in a statement this past summer.

Let's not forget that the first time Trump was asked during the campaign who he gets foreign policy advice from; the first name that popped up was JOHN BOLTON, and he praised him as being tough.

John Bolton was strongly allied with Dick Cheney. Steve Yates, another Neocon, was Cheney's China advisor and is Trump's as well.

After reading Engdahl's article, I wrote my own opinion of the Neocon strategy based on Engdahl's and you can read it on the Saker's site here:

But if you find it difficult to read without paragraphs: scroll down through the comments on the Saker's own opinion of Engdahl's piece as that's where my original comment appeared with paragraphs.

Something stinks about this Tillerson/Bolton combination. You can read my theory on why Neocons are pivoting to a new strategy of divide and conquer as Engdahl believes, and it has to do with the growing economic bond between China and Iran as well and killing two birds with one stone; invading Iran to contain China and sabotage OBOR.

Note as well, that in courting Russia to isolate China and weaken the growing cooperation between China and Russia, as Engdahl puts it, Russia will ultimately lose its own influence, unless of course Netanyahu has made Putin an offer he can't refuse, since Netanyahu has been courting Putin for quite some time already; and this is very bizarre, since Putin frustrated Netanyahu's plan for Syria.

Something's very wrong with this picture.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 11 2016 5:38 utc | 100

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