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December 17, 2016
Open Thread 2016-42
News & views …
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From Popular Science: Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 17 2016 10:01 utc | 1 It appears that the next city to be liberated from known terrorists should be Washington,the American people should invite Russia in to help. Posted by: Ken hughes | Dec 17 2016 10:35 utc | 2 Were the birthers right? “Forensics investigation proves Barack Obama’s birth certificate is ‘fake’ (VIDEO)”http://theduran.com/forensics-investigation-proves-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-fake/ Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 12:07 utc | 3 try this link, made a mistake: http://theduran.com/forensics-investigation-proves-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-fake/ Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 12:09 utc | 4 “Information war” is getting fun.
The CIA lost control of the Syrian and Ukrainian “civil war” narrative?
Glencore is the one that is buying oil from Kurdistan without consulting the Iraqi government. Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 12:21 utc | 5 This is Rudaw on Glencore’s Kurdistan deal Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 12:25 utc | 6 Two great reads from Nassim Nicolas Taleb, author of The Black Swan. Posted by: MadMax2 | Dec 17 2016 12:28 utc | 7 Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17, 2016 7:09:46 AM | 4 Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 12:38 utc | 8 @somebody | 5 Posted by: Philippe | Dec 17 2016 12:39 utc | 9 Hmpf! While the U.S. bombs the shit out of 7 countries (and counting), Pres. Vladimir Putin is on a charm mission around the planet making “partners”. The U.S. even tried to dissuade Abe from the meeting; to no avail. Posted by: V. Arnold | Dec 17 2016 12:50 utc | 10 somebody @8 Not sure if it is racist since there are five other presidential “birther” controversies from American history including John McCain, George Romney and Barry Goldwater.What is important is whether the truth was told, regardless of a persons colour or ethnic origins. http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2016/01/five-other-presidential-birther-controversies-from-american-history/ Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 13:27 utc | 11 Posted by: Philippe | Dec 17, 2016 7:39:45 AM | 9
Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 13:37 utc | 12 DAMASCUS – According to two reports coming out of Aleppo today, at least 14 US Coalition military officers were captured this morning in an East Aleppo bunker by Syrian Special Forces. Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 14:07 utc | 13 Obama repeated the false claim that Putin had been head of the KGB at his press conference yesterday. (I heard him saying the same thing on a recording of an interview on NPR radio, earlier yesterday morning, before the press conference.) What’s up with his repeating such a lie? Hadn’t his advisers told him that he was mistaken? Posted by: lysias | Dec 17 2016 14:16 utc | 14 lysias@14 I thought that also, but the KGB was replaced by the Federal Security Service. “Putin began his career in the KGB as an intelligence officer. Stationed mainly in East Germany, he held that position until 1990, retiring with the rank of lieutenant colonel. Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 14:33 utc | 15 @13 Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 17 2016 14:46 utc | 16 @16 It’s pretty clear …14 coalition officers were captured…..NATO officers were arrested (2 of them). Of course the story may not be true…..we have to wait to read it on the BBC. Posted by: dh | Dec 17 2016 14:55 utc | 17 Re Nato Officers in Aleppo bunker Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 17 2016 15:07 utc | 18 @18 Sure they could all be special forces, mercenaries, dual nationality manpad technicians. Hopefully there will be a news conference. I don’t see much point in nit-picking until then. Posted by: dh | Dec 17 2016 15:12 utc | 19 I watched Wag the Dog (again) last night. It’s amazing how bad our news has become in the 20 years since. At the end of one of the DVD extras was this: “So, will the next generation be able to tell the difference between real news and news that has been faked?” And that’s a good question considering how many different source there are out there. Posted by: Curtis | Dec 17 2016 15:14 utc | 20 @Peter AU Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 15:26 utc | 21 It looks like Condoleezza Rice may get her wish for the birth of a new Middle East. George Bush thought the US aligned and Sunni dominated Saudi and other GCC states, together with Israel would defeat and become the regional Hegemon of the more independent states, or as they are better known, the ‘arc of resistance’ see ‘The Redirection’ here http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/05/the-redirection Unfortunately for her and other Neocons, the opposite is happening. Syria’s eventual victory will make the ‘arc’ stronger, the ‘arc’ Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq backed by Russia and to a lesser extent China will be joined by Yemen and possibly by Egypt and Libya, are we beginning to see US influence in the region disappear? One can only hope so. Now the ‘arc’ need to apply pressure, financial and military on the causes of all the upset and terrorism in Syria and all over the world the Wahhabi head choppers of Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Alliances are crucial when confronting the “Masters of the Universe”. Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 15:29 utc | 22 Courageous academic speaking against propaganda Posted by: Mina | Dec 17 2016 15:30 utc | 23 names of the US/Nato/GCC mercs Posted by: Mina | Dec 17 2016 15:33 utc | 24 @ harrylaw 22. Posted by: Curtis | Dec 17 2016 15:55 utc | 25 Jack Smith 21 Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 17 2016 16:00 utc | 26 I guess the MSM has forgotten what was done to Fallujah… Posted by: shadyl | Dec 17 2016 16:00 utc | 27 You could also add that Libyans probably have no children. Posted by: Mina | Dec 17 2016 16:06 utc | 28 n addition to Voltaire.net, the other original report was provided by Damascus-based Syrian journalist Said Hilal Alcharifi. According to Alcharifi, captured “NATO” officers were from a number of member states including the US, France, Germany and Turkey, as well as Israel. Here is his statement (translated from French): Posted by: ALberto | Dec 17 2016 16:11 utc | 29 Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17, 2016 10:29:56 AM | 22 Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 16:13 utc | 30 December 15, 2016 Hilal Alchar link to Facebook posting Posted by: ALberto | Dec 17 2016 16:14 utc | 31 @Peter AU | Dec 17, 2016 11:00:07 AM | 26 Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 16:16 utc | 32 Lawless Harry (a.k.a. harry law) and Mina: please enclose your links in “< a href="LINK">description<\a>” (space added between < and "a" to prevent the effect of displaying just this: description). Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 17 2016 16:21 utc | 33 Ok, I will wait and watch on these advisors captured in Aleppo. My thought has been that westeners would have to remain invisible to the average jihadist. Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 17 2016 16:22 utc | 34 @26 By ‘western’ you presumably mean white Anglo-Saxon? Seems Westerners come in all ethnic varieties these days. But these ‘officers’, if they exist, would have been selected to blend in. Posted by: dh | Dec 17 2016 16:23 utc | 35 It would appear that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are very vulnerable to regime change, Qatar is a midget with a population of 1.8 million most ex-patriots it only has 278,000 citizens [2013]The Saudis can only hire mercenaries to defend their medieval rule. Surely the arc of resistance can do as the Saudis have done in other Arab countries inject paid mercenaries [unattributed of course] to teach the fuckers a lesson. “An assault on Ras Tanura, however, would be vastly more serious. As much as 80% of the near 9m barrels of oil a day pumped out by Saudi is believed to end up being piped from fields such as Ghawar to Ras Tanura in the Gulf to be loaded on to supertankers bound for the west Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 16:24 utc | 36 One can speculate most likely SAA captured the mercenaries, since Kerry and Samantha Power was so aggressive attacking Russia during the last few UN Security Council meets…. wait patient Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 16:26 utc | 37 suddenly it is allowed to speak about torture of civilians under al Nusra Posted by: Mina | Dec 17 2016 16:27 utc | 38 add – Moscow to Host Crucial Meeting With China, Pakistan to Discuss Afghanistan
Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 16:28 utc | 39 @dh | Dec 17, 2016 11:23:06 AM | 35 Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 16:38 utc | 40 Taiwan… Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 16:48 utc | 41 mina@38. Thanks for the Independent article, this needs to be rammed down the propagandist throats of the likes of the Guardian and BBC. Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 16:53 utc | 42 Piotr Berman @33 Why Lawless Harry? If it is not true after “the overwhelming forensic evidence shows the posted document [Barack Obama’s birth certificate, posted on the official White House website] is nothing more than a “created” document – pieced together using another source document.” Then the ‘experts’, not me, will have to account for themselves. If it is true, then your ‘suspicions’ will have proven to be as correct as the 17 intelligence agencies who ‘suspect’ Putin was the source of the Hacked e-mails. We shall wait and see. Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 17:08 utc | 43 harrylaw@36 – The Guardian data from 2004 has changed quite a bit over the last decade. Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 17 2016 17:33 utc | 44 @41 Jack Smith – reading the ZH story, I love this quote from the retired Chinese admiral regarding the noise from the US: “The louder they shout, the more their protests ring hollow.” Posted by: Grieved | Dec 17 2016 17:36 utc | 45 @38 Mina – interesting to see this half-turn in the Independent. This is so similar to all the awkward, hedging stories that come from the MSM writers as they attempt to walk back previous positions proved untenable by subsequent events on the ground. Posted by: Grieved | Dec 17 2016 17:44 utc | 46 Well, hell. Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 17 2016 17:51 utc | 47 And then, there is this: Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 17 2016 17:57 utc | 49 Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17, 2016 11:38:18 AM | 40 Posted by: somebody | Dec 17 2016 18:02 utc | 50 Alexander Mercouris at the Duran has an interesting piece today describing how Turkey, Russia and Iran are currently conferring at their top levels of diplomacy, military and intelligence: Posted by: Grieved | Dec 17 2016 18:05 utc | 51 Here’s another: Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 17 2016 18:06 utc | 52 PavewayIV @44 Thanks for that informative link, I will read it later as I am sure the people who want the House of Saud to fall will, with all the vulnerable ports and difficult to defend pipe line networks. Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 18:14 utc | 53 PB @ 33 said..”If nothing else, it shows that expert panels organized with clear prior intention by ad hoc bodies (Maricopa County? Really? Why not Baca county?) have zero ability to convince those who were not convinced before.” Posted by: ben | Dec 17 2016 18:38 utc | 54 What a deluge of oily and repulsive articles we’ll see after the inauguration as MSM tries to paint itself supportive of the new administration. Posted by: juliania | Dec 17 2016 18:39 utc | 55 #36 wartime experience is that it took hundreds of tons of bombs to close down much small oil processing plant tsunami than the Saudi ones. You should not over estimate the vulnerability of industrial infrastructure. Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Dec 17 2016 19:32 utc | 57 Somewhat naive and a light read, but worth it: Posted by: laserlurk | Dec 17 2016 19:34 utc | 58 I do hope that the list of western/Saudi officers supposedly captured in East Aleppo proves to be correct. They should be put on show. That would be a big help to ending the war. Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 17 2016 19:50 utc | 59 By the way, re China, and John Pilger’s film, the Coming War on China, I noted that Obama’s speech about the “pivot to Asia” was early on, and not much happened after that. American policy subsequently concentrated on the Middle East. We can all imagine why that happened. But the question I would like to pose is – is the US yet free to leave the Middle East, and concentrate its efforts on Asia? I would say no, they’re stuck. Netahyahu won’t let him. This could be a serious degradation of US interests. Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 17 2016 20:22 utc | 60 @2 ken… thanks for the laugh.. wish it could be, but the dictatorship in washington will not allow it! Posted by: james | Dec 17 2016 20:44 utc | 62 Lysias @ 14, Harrylaw @ 15: Posted by: Jen | Dec 17 2016 20:50 utc | 63 Voltaire Network – Thierry Meyssan a Frenchman living in Damascus pretty decent chap. Not known to fake or BREAKING NEWS. Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 21:10 utc | 64 @PavewayIV, Grieved Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 17 2016 21:15 utc | 65 Cauldron a cookin Posted by: ALberto | Dec 17 2016 21:42 utc | 66 @66 Being curious about the actual objectives of these protestors I did a little research. Peter Tatchell’s name came up a lot. He comes across as very vocal but not very realistic. He wants “aid drops, human rights monitors, peacekeepers & war crimes charges” but he’s somewhat vague about how this can be achieved. The basic idea seems to be to to pressure the British government into doing something. Here is his manifesto… Posted by: dh | Dec 17 2016 21:47 utc | 67 @67 jen.. that is exactly right regarding the leadership of the usa – “truth isn’t important”… and add to that the concept of accountability which also remains in the ditch and what do you have? a lot of ‘paid for’ talking heads spouting the same bs 24/7… some of us have obviously had enough and don’t even tune in.. i think this is probably true of many young people especially.. it used to be ‘unplug, or throw away your tv.. now it has to be ignore the vast amount of information thrown at you via the net, as a high % of it is complete bullshite.’ that is how i mostly see it. Posted by: james | Dec 17 2016 21:47 utc | 68 Ehsani is right on spot, as usual Posted by: Mina | Dec 17 2016 22:31 utc | 69 For those who think pizzagate impossible take a look at mainstream media exposure of evidence of a global trade in children for sex and high level pedophiles protected by upper echelons of law enforcement and secret service agencies. Seems this is the way control is exerted over quite a few elite politicians, bureaucrats and media personnel as well as music industry. Posted by: Anoncommenter | Dec 17 2016 22:32 utc | 70 dh@71 Tatchell comes across rather like Samantha Power [Mother Teresa] Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 17 2016 22:36 utc | 71 Another posting of the Reddit compilation of MAINSTREAM NEWS reports Posted by: Anoncommenter | Dec 17 2016 22:43 utc | 72 bhadrakumers take on the latest obama bad mouthing russia /putin, over interference in the exceptional nations election process.. Posted by: james | Dec 17 2016 22:48 utc | 73 The Guardian has started showing the Borg’s shift from Russia towards Iran as their preferred bogeyman. Strange how they change direction in unison like a shoal of fish or flock of birds: Posted by: Mr Toad | Dec 17 2016 22:49 utc | 74 @13,14,15 lysis and hairylaw Posted by: jfl | Dec 17 2016 22:50 utc | 75 @75 He has an agenda for sure. He wants military intervention. He’s a British version of McCain. He managed to get a few hundred people into the streets with placards….”Protect civilians!!”, “Save Aleppo!!!”. I didn’t spot Boris Johnson among the crowd. It will pass. Posted by: dh | Dec 17 2016 22:59 utc | 76 69 Posted by: chipnik | Dec 17 2016 23:08 utc | 77 50 Posted by: chipnik | Dec 17 2016 23:27 utc | 78 Regarding Putin’s role on world affairs as a ex-KGB officer, I’d like to to get your opinions on this interview with a retired KGB general I managed to find (now scrubbed from the net). In essence, the interview postulates that as early as the Bolshevik Revolution days a small core of officers around Dzerzhinsky tried to uphold traditional russian & christian values and bidding their time managed to influence late Soviet years and contributed in having Putin in power, himself apparently a member of that “Old Guard”. As always, your milage may vary.. Posted by: Lozion | Dec 17 2016 23:39 utc | 79 As my semi-last contribution to this forum I would like to say I am sick to death of JFL. What a windbag. Look at the space he has taken up with quotes. I would say that, in general,(exceptions Grieved, psychohistorian, Paveway, La Guerre and others) the contributors to this blog do not do justice to its creator, the level is extremely low and yet this mystifies me because Bernhard’s work is top class and totally brilliant at times. It may just be that the left has totally disintegrated and knows not what it stands for. Posted by: Lochearn | Dec 17 2016 23:41 utc | 80 Saudi Arabia Suspends Investments in US Due to Trump – WSJ
wouldn’t russia be a good place for the saudis to invest? think of how many rubles they’d get for their dollars. Posted by: jfl | Dec 17 2016 23:57 utc | 81 No, JFL, I certainly do not hate you or even dislike you in any way. It’s just I cannot remember anything I read of yours that jolted me or made me think. Maybe I am asking too much. Or maybe I missed your best posts. Whatever. The fact is that the level on the comments is just not stimulating. I am trying to start a discussion about why that is. Posted by: Lochearn | Dec 18 2016 0:07 utc | 82 Jack Smith@69 – ?? I didn’t make any statements here opposing what you said in @69, in fact I agree with it. Did you actually mean me? The statement I made to HarryLaw about East Asia being most harmed by the Saudi port closure (from an attack or whatever) is simple fact based on world oil trade statistics. I’m not advocating such an attack, I’m merely stating how exports would be affected today because HarryLaws citation from the Guardian was based on older 2003-2004 export data when the west was the major destination for their exports. Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 18 2016 0:40 utc | 83 @86 lochearn Posted by: jfl | Dec 18 2016 0:59 utc | 84 @84 Lochearn – where might one find your comments, if you should stay away from this place? Posted by: Grieved | Dec 18 2016 1:16 utc | 85 @84-89.. i would like to 2nd grieved comments, typically insightful and on target : “The only way to have a thing, is to be that thing, and to give it away.” thanks all of you and the many others for offering what you can.. Posted by: james | Dec 18 2016 1:37 utc | 86 In case anybody is wondering where head chopper photographer Mahmoud Raslan is:
Posted by: Tobin Paz | Dec 18 2016 1:40 utc | 87 Alison Weir on neocons and Iraq War: Posted by: RudyM | Dec 18 2016 1:45 utc | 88 @chipnik (81) Posted by: RudyM | Dec 18 2016 2:06 utc | 89 DH @ 71, HarryLaw @ 75: Posted by: Jen | Dec 18 2016 2:29 utc | 90 @PavewayIV and Grieved Posted by: jack Smith | Dec 18 2016 2:54 utc | 91 Where are the white helmets ? Have they been evacuated from Aleppo. Posted by: Nohan | Dec 18 2016 3:31 utc | 92 Our former reality TV star present Chief Executive is being backfilled by Arnold Schwarzenegger and Boy George. What cold possibly go wrong? Posted by: ALberto | Dec 18 2016 3:57 utc | 93 Update 19:42 US EST: We have some confirmation on this from our own Syrian sources. The numbers are much higher than just the 14 names released by the Syrian MP via Facebook. That report of 14 officers might be a different group, as it had specific names. My report has only the numbers and nationalities…and the news that they were not really “captured” but were allowed out as part of a deal between all parties involved. You see the Moroccans are missing in these numbers. Posted by: ALberto | Dec 18 2016 4:03 utc | 94 jfl is fine, like many who post here. Information dissemination being key. Food fights suck. Posted by: ben | Dec 18 2016 4:19 utc | 95 Thanks to Mina @23 for providing the link to the German interview. I have translated the interview to English using software (the webpage cannot be simply translated using Google translate or Bing, as it is a secure page) Posted by: Perimeter | Dec 18 2016 4:32 utc | 96 Thanks to Lozion | Dec 17, 2016 6:39:34 PM | 83 Posted by: Perimeter | Dec 18 2016 4:53 utc | 97 Watch this CCTV a Tibetan’s documentary. NO political comments please. Really good. Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 18 2016 4:55 utc | 98 Forget… Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 18 2016 4:55 utc | 99 @ALberto | Dec 17, 2016 11:03:38 PM | 98 Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 18 2016 5:16 utc | 100 |
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