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December 12, 2016
#Fakenews Alert: “China Flies Nuclear Bomber In Response To Trump’s Call …”

A few recent headlines of #fakenews:

The above is #fakenews because China does not currently deploy any airlaunched nuclear weapons. It is not known or thought to have nuclear bombs. All its estimated 260 nuclear warheads (the U.S. and Russia each have more than 7,000) are presumably for its land and sea based missiles.

China is believed to work on a short- to medium-range, airlaunched cruise missiles that potentially could be nuclear armed. So far the U.S. Air Force does not believe that any of these are deployed and does not list them as part of a potential enemy force.

The relevant regular paper for such facts is Chinese nuclear forces, 2016 (pdf) by Hans M. Kristensen and Robert S. Norris published by the Bulletin of Nuclear Scientists:

[T]he 2016 Pentagon report includes for the first time a discussion of a potential nuclear role for China’s bombers. It says the PLA air force was assigned a “strategic deterrence” mission in 2012, although that could also reflect the introduction of conventional land-attack cruise missiles on the modified H-6K bomber. But the Pentagon report states that Chinese media reports and writings "suggest China might eventually develop a nuclear bomber capability. […]” (US Defense Department 2016, 38).
[,..]
We do not believe that China's bombers currently have an active nuclear mission.

For historic and deeper background of the non-existence of operational Chinese airlaunched nukes see this tweet stream by ArmsControlWonk Jeffrey Lewis.

China may fly some medium range Hongzha-6 bombers around its nearby ocean. These birds are an updated version of a Russian type developed in the late 1950s(!). Flying is what military pilots do to train. But those bombers are not likely to have anything to do with nuclear whatever. What does "nuclear capable" bomber actually mean when one has nothing "nuclear" to put on those bombers? Are we to believe that the U.S. will provide the nukes for these?

According to Fox News and NBC, China flew such bomber on November 25 (Dec 5, 6 reps above), well BEFORE the Trump phone call. It also flew the bombers AFTER (Dec 9 rep) the Trump's phone call with the Taiwanese government. Indeed it regularly flies these bombers. The sightseeing flight had thereby nothing at all to do with any Trump call. Correlating the call with those flights is bogus spin.

The headlines above are all nonsense. There is nothing "nuclear" and the flights of outdated bombers have nothing to do with any Trump call to wherever. They are #fakenews just as most of the other news we get is:

News is fake. The higher the stakes for the ruling classes, the more you can be certain the mainstream news about it will be as fake as fuck and conversely, reports deemed fake by those same fakers should be duly considered on their merits.

Posted by b on December 12, 2016 at 18:35 UTC | Permalink
Comments

@all
– banned Lavonas aka Pitzel aka Paulo aka Liebensich aka Rapid aka ….
Reminder: Sockpuppetry here will get you banned. Your comments will be deleted.

Posted by: b | Dec 12 2016 19:16 utc | 1

The Nuremberg Court Trials rulings only apply to ‘them’ not ‘US’
Sundus Saleh, an Iraqi woman, claims that former President George W. Bush and other government officials committed the crime of aggression when they launched the Iraq War, an international war crime that was banned at the Nuremberg Trials.
Saleh filed her lawsuit in March 2013 in San Francisco federal court. The court ruled in December 2014 that the defendants in the lawsuit — George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell and Paul Wolfowitz — were immune from civil proceedings based on the Westfall Act, a federal law which immunizes government officials from lawsuits for conduct taken within the lawful scope of their authority. Saleh appealed the decision in June 2015.
The Ninth Circuit has not indicated when it will issue an order with respect to Saleh’s appeal.
Nuremberg trial also prosecuted Judges unt Doctors.
http://witnessiraq.com/blog/

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 12 2016 20:02 utc | 2

b,
Lavonas aka Pitzel aka Paulo aka Liebensich aka Rapid aka ….
It would appear that the ‘Syrian Human Rights Observatory – UK’ has received a fresh inflow of ca$h and has spent that money on hiring sock puppet interns?
just my opinion

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 12 2016 20:09 utc | 3

Everything is fake, b, everything is fake. One ring to bind them
and in the darkness find them, and the One Party of Mil.Gov to
rule them all with a $35B/yr domestic propaganda budget.
Say hello to USArya’s defacto ‘day-to-day operations’ SecState:
===
John Bolton
“Overthrowing Saddam Hussein was the right move for the US and its allies”
Hillary Clinton
“No, I don’t regret giving the president authority [to invade Iraq] because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade.”
===
John Bolton
“Our military has a wonderful euphemism called ‘national command authority.’ It’s a legitimate military target. In Libya, Muammar Gaddafi is the national command authority. I think that’s the answer right there. … I think he’s a legitimate target… and that would end the regime right there.”
Hillary Clinton
“We came, we saw, he died!”
===
John Bolton
“If, in this context, defeating the Islamic State means restoring to power Mr. Assad in Syria… that outcome is neither feasible nor desirable.”
Hillary Clinton
“The world will not waver, Assad must go”
===
John Bolton
“To stop Iran’s bomb, bomb Iran”
“The only longterm solution is regime change in [Iran].”
Hillary Clinton
“I want the Iranians to know that if I’m president, we will attack Iran. In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them.”
===
John Bolton
“Vladimir Putin’s Russia is on the prowl in Eastern Europe and the Middle East in ways unprecedented since the Cold War”
Hillary Clinton
“[Russia is] interested in keeping Assad in power. So I, when I was secretary of state, advocated and I advocate today a no-fly zone and safe zones. … I want to emphasize that what is at stake here is the ambitions and the aggressiveness of Russia. Russia has decided that it’s all in, in Syria. … I’ve stood up to Russia. I’ve taken on Putin and others, and I would do that as president.”
===
John Bolton
“The gravest threat to U.S. interests … is the Russia-Iran-Syria axis”
Hillary Clinton
“ISIS was primarily the result of the [power] vacuum in Syria caused by Assad first and foremost, aided and abetted by Iran and Russia.”

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 12 2016 20:48 utc | 4

#4 @chipnik
The F-35 program and cost is out of control. Billions of dollars can and will be saved on military (and other) purchases after January 20th.

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 12 2016 21:01 utc | 5

the real news is real ugly, b.
it gets ignored and scrubbed.
quite obviously, the best news on the enter net is fake.

Posted by: john | Dec 12 2016 21:12 utc | 6

I was going to say: is this Trumpian or pre-Trumpian policy? But then I thought: the Borg is not going to stop, whether or not Trump is in power. Trump is going to have a hard time imposing himself, even if that is his desire, which is not certain.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 12 2016 21:16 utc | 7

I ve seen the news of the pedophile ring in Norway last week. The story is indeed ugly but the MSM has a very racist hierarchy of what should be top news and be sure that if it is bad for the reputation of the powerful western countries, it should not be news at all.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 12 2016 21:19 utc | 8

Apparently CIA has finally figured out that their asses are toast. CIA has fed a constant stream of half truths and outright rabrications to US MSM and are now turning on WaPo. CIA also has killer drones and military powers they have no right to exercise. Apparently the rats are turning on each other. Let the trials and subsequent executions begin.
LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC
However, the FBI reported they did not find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the Russian Government did such a thing. The POST reported that a secret CIA report had been presented to lawmakers on Capitol Hill allegedly saying there was information linking Russia to the election hackings in favor of President-elect Trump.
Now, the CIA is saying the POST got it wrong…in fact, they allegedly lied. At this point I think the whole thing is a mess, and I don’t see how the American people can decipher the “real” news from the “fake” news.
Multiple CIA sources are now denouncing the Washington Post for knowingly reporting misleading national security intelligence. Intelligence insiders said no one in the Agency or in the FBI, who is running at least one parallel inquiry, has ruled out a possible internal leak within the Democratic National Committee from actor(s) inside the United States who funneled private DNC emails to WikiLeaks.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-cia-says-they-did-not-tell-the-washington-post-that-russia-hacked-election-in-favor-of-trump/

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 12 2016 21:37 utc | 9

This is the bestest US (s)election cycle theatre the world has ever seen.
Who are the producer(s)? Will they get an Academy award for it?
Are the actors playing themselves?
I can’t wait to see the exciting Electoral College climax next Monday…..be sure to watch! I’ve heard that the cost of “advert” for the event is skyrocketing…..
Which faction of overlords will lead the world into new serfdom? Will the results be contested? Be sure to stay tuned.
Gag!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 12 2016 21:42 utc | 10

China does indeed have H-6 bombers. http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=769

Posted by: Paul | Dec 12 2016 21:43 utc | 11

Mina. I don’t know the Norwegian case, but the story of pedophile rings can be very complicated. There’s been a lot in UK recently of high up people being involved. Then they started investigating eminent (dead) people of doubtful fault, like Edward Heath, who as far as I know was asexual. The question was cleared up, and the police apologised. That discredited the whole investigation, probably deliberately. The game was: launch an investigation against an innocent person, fail, apologise, and that discredits attempts to investigate real culprits, of whom there are many in the British system.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 12 2016 21:52 utc | 12

China *does* have nuclear bombers.
The paper cited above says it multiple times. Just after:

We do not believe that China’s bombers currently have an active nuclear mission.

It adds:

we estimate that a
small portion of China’s H-6 intermediate-range bombers
have a secondary nuclear mission – not a fully
active mission but a capability that is available if
necessary.

This means that these H-6 bombers are not constantly loaded with nuclear warheads, but they can be if needed – and the table page 206 shows it clearly.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 12 2016 22:08 utc | 13

@8 & @12 look up pizzagate on youtube

Posted by: Charlesg | Dec 12 2016 22:24 utc | 14

Jen @13
Any flying device is nuclear capable. A couple of years ago, someone landed a (small, consumer) drone on the roof of the Prime Ministers office in central Tokyo. It carried a small tin box filled with radioactive sand (deposits from the Fukushima Daichi nuclear disaster)…
Of course, good luck hooking up a serious nuclear bomb to such a drone. Those things tend to be a wee bit more heavy than a can of beer.
A nuclear bomber is a technical term to designate an aircraft whose mission is to carry (mass-produced) nuclear weapons. As b. correctly argues, the PRC is not know to have such weapons. They probably easily could make them though.

Posted by: Philippe | Dec 12 2016 23:21 utc | 15

I think you’re wasting a little too much ink trying to shut down perception of the inevitable reality already obvious, and not enough staying ahead of the dangerous game being played out by the Anglo/Zionist Empire in the guise of Donald Trump already its de facto leader. I’m not saying I disagree with you completely. The fact that there were no nukes attached to those Chinese bombers is really not the issue here. Far be it for me to defend the Zionist mainstream, but CNN had a bottom screen banner reading: China flies nuke-capable bombers over South China Sea. So it’s already overkill to call this fake news.
CNN also states that Trump is using one-China policy as a bargaining chip. No he’s not. He’s using it as a sledge hammer and ultimatum. Big difference! Now don’t start spinning their narrative selectively…it’s all very clear; no spin required.
The issue is really this: Trump is hinting at a new aggressive China policy and China wants to deliver its own not-so subliminal, not-so-subtle message; flexing some muscle and exercising a right to veto whatever the U.S. tries to push through the Security Council and calling Trump an ignorant child. Good on China! Trump deserves the diplomatic knuckle-rapping. This is what you should be focusing on; speaking truth to Trump, not defending the indefensible by not even questioning it and pretending you know for certain what China does or doesn’t possess.
I’m the type of person that give’s a rat’s ass which party or personality is leading us astray. I will speak truth to power at whoever leads the Zionist empire’s hubris against the rest of the world, and refuse to defend their ultimatums; I don’t care what a snake charmer he is (Obama) or blowhard reality showman he is and how much he pretends to kiss up to Putin for show. I’m no Eskimo and this blowhard’s not selling me some cheap ice I have no use for!
Quotes below from Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-china-idUSKBN1400TY

President-elect Donald Trump said the United States did not necessarily have to stick to its long-standing position that Taiwan is part of “one China,” questioning nearly four decades of policy in a move likely to antagonize Beijing.

So now we have the Trumpster about to push his ultra-extreme Neocon China and Iran-hating friend, John Bolton, in through the back door of State, just so the non-interventionist supporters in the echo chamber, continue to be taken in by his showmanship and good intentions.

In a Wall Street Journal article last January, Bolton said the next U.S. president should take bolder steps to halt China’ military aggressiveness in the South and East China seas.
Bolton said Washington should consider using a “diplomatic ladder of escalation” that could start with receiving Taiwanese diplomats officially at the State Department and lead to restoring full diplomatic recognition.

Funny…sounds to me like that’s exactly what Trump is doing, initiating escalation; listening to his friend and Neocon mentor who he admitted during the campaign was someone giving him foreign policy advice; actually it was the first name that popped into his mind.
Remember after he told Chuck Todd he gets military advice from watching shows on cable news and then when Todd pressed him on who advises him on foreign policy; he blurts out JOHN BOLTON? Yeah, that John Bolton; the extremist Neocon quack is gonna be Deputy at state.
So he’s listening to John Bolton, he respects John Bolton, John Bolton was involved in the Taiwan call scenario and he’s going to make him Deputy SoS, next to an oligarch whose specialty is Russia and might be around solely to wean Putin away from cooperation with China.
So in the Fox interview Trump brought up a litany of complaints about China that he emphasized during his presidential campaign.
China, China, China! (And he hasn’t started in on Iran yet!)
China, of course, rightly sees where all this is headed ergo the subtle warnings.
With due credit to William Engdahl who expressed it very well, It’s classic Kissinger Balance of Power geopolitics–seem to ally with the weaker of two mortal enemies, Russia, to isolate the stronger, China.. Oh and Trump also met with Kissinger several times while he met with Bolton a multitude of times.
The Neocon plan is pivoting to divide the Empire’s competitors with the goal to conquer, while messing with Iran to deal a double whammy on China. I’m warning that the Empire feels an urgent need to sabotage OBOR; I’m warning that Russia is still the enemy of the Empire no matter who’s in power. I’m indicating that Netanyahu is a little too over the moon with Trump and warning there’s a grave, ulterior motive; significant promises made regarding toppling Iran and the biggest swindle against the Palestinian people yet to play out.
Here’s where I agree with you: YES; we must be on our guard regarding fake news because there’s going to be plenty of it coming out of the new administration real soon. The Empire is out to get China and Iran and they’re gonna be on over-drive trying to manufacture incidents and baseless accusations to pivot towards cold relations and use deception to incite patriotic hysteria with a narrative hawking red-hot War.
So, I’m hoping that when we get there and it’s really looking like we will; you will apply your bullshit meter and acute vigilance to the new administration and Trump White House and as Farrakhan put it so well during the campaign, and he had no horse he really liked in the race: Trump’s going to take us on a rocket ship to hell. Some people have excellent instincts; others see only what they’re desperate to see.
There are three pins standing in the way of the Empire’s global domination: Russia , Iran and China, and the bowling ball is in Trump’s small, sweaty hands. Maybe all he has to do is hit one pin; and the other two tumble.
Trump is surrounding himself with a military junta (yet another, General today, Gen. Kelly for Homeland) and Wall Street oligarchs; and that’s not troubling enough for you? Your antenna isn’t signaling anything on this?
The silence here on Trump’s picks and the dangerous positions he’s already espousing is deafening; and quit trying to shoot the messenger instead, but hey, let’s pretend PNAC is dead; there isn’t a Neocon pivot happening and China’s not really sending a serious message to Trump and Trump’s not sending a message to minorities and the working class with his junta-style cabinet and Wall street oligarchy because we’re still cruisin’ Trump-can-do-no-wrong altitude.
Earth calling…come in please. Get out of the honeymoon fog, already or face a crash landing.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 12 2016 23:27 utc | 16

China – If Trump decides regime changes or two China policy, it’s MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction).
Any differences between Taiwan (ROC) and People Republic of China (PRC) should be decided by them. They are all Chinese plus minorities. Who gave Trump or anyone to decide Chinese fates? Just like Syria, Iraq, Libya consists many minorities or tribes. China span from the top of the world (Tibet) to far east and across South China seas.
There are more than 50 million’s overseas Chinese spread across oceans and continents since foreigners intervention during Qing Dynasty. Thailand overseas Chinese being the largest in SEA and Singapore, the only county with majority Chinese original. Singapore PM a Chinese, ancestor emigrates to Singapore during Qing dynasty. In USA more than 4 millions are Chinese.
President Xi Jinping inspects Chinese troops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2dhK4JnYmQ
China National anthem Chinese & English lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UctriMuXYS0

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 13 2016 0:27 utc | 17

I’m surprised to see Zerohedge on that list of sites parroting the official “China reacts” line. I thought they were on the PropOrNot list of pro-Russia sites. But sometimes they mix some stuff they grab from foxnews as it may apply to the financial markets.
I thought it was the Taiwan president who called Trump to congratulate him. What was he supposed to do, be rude and hang up? It sounds like much ado BS thrown at the wall to see what sticks.

Posted by: Curtis | Dec 13 2016 1:12 utc | 18

@9 Ab, ‘Apparently CIA has finally figured out that their asses are toast.’
i think you’re right. the obviousness of the cia coup attempt somehow ‘escaped’ them prior to its launch?
more likely just stirring things up was their aim, now they throw useful idiot bezos under the bus, explain to tee-rump that it was not their guys, honest … out anyone else as required … while they sharpen their knives and load their guns, just in case the tee-rump has not yet looked on their works, and despaired.
@10 psycho, ‘…be sure to watch! I’ve heard that the cost of “advert” for the event is skyrocketing…’
how well put. in the midst of the gangwar in ac/dc there’s no reason at all not to make a buck hawking seats to the gladiatorial action
fakenews pays!
@19 curtis, ‘ What was he supposed to do, be rude and hang up?’
i think it is/was ‘much ado BS thrown at the wall to see what sticks’ on the part of the fakenews media – always keep in practice – but check out tee-rumps appointment of senator mitch mcconnell’s wife elaine chao to his cabinet. not wholly unrelated, i presume
b
glad to read all your posts since the ProPornOT diversion. great research and analysis, as always. writing well is the best revenge.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 13 2016 1:57 utc | 19

@ Curtis who wrote:
”
I thought it was the Taiwan president who called Trump to congratulate him. What was he supposed to do, be rude and hang up? It sounds like much ado BS thrown at the wall to see what sticks.
”
Is that what you are doing?
and then my proper link test as refutation of who called who
Drain The Swamp!
I have a disability but am not disabled.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 13 2016 2:02 utc | 20

@18 And there are now around 1M Chinese in Australia, some whose families have been there for many years. I am guessing around 50,000 people emigrate from China to Australia every year. So over 4% of the population is of Chinese descent. There must be close to 100k Chinese students in Australia currently.

Posted by: dynkyd | Dec 13 2016 2:09 utc | 21

Thanks for the excellent comment circe. Hopefully the Trump fetishists can take a break from sniffing glue and understand the grave implications of these events.

Posted by: David | Dec 13 2016 2:11 utc | 22

“Fear! Fire! Foes!”
The Hobbits then armed themselves. They recognized a real threat in their fictional world. We Amerikkkans recognize a fictional threat in our real world.
There is a difference.

Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 13 2016 2:13 utc | 23

CIA refutes WAPO and MSNBC Counter Coup plot:
There is only the One Party of Mil.Gov.
“Here is where the Deep State meets the political world. The Deep State consists of intelligence, military, law enforcement and administrative agency personnel who aggressively protect their own interests, which transcend elections. (C: and party politics) Stated differently, many of these folks remain in opaque positions of power, and the governmental departments and agencies for which they work continue to expand, no matter which party wins the White House or controls Congress.”

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 13 2016 2:13 utc | 24

I should add that our Higher Education Industry (there is no better word for it) would fall apart if China stopped allowing students to come to Australia. It is the third largest export earner in Australia after coal and iron. And where is the coal and iron shipped to? China could destroy the Australian economy if it chose to.

Posted by: dynkyd | Dec 13 2016 2:14 utc | 25

18
Especially Tibet.
Trump should absolutely avoid contact with the Dalai Lama or senior Buddhist veneries of China’s Western domain. Trump should also steer clear of PM for Life Samdech Hun Seng in China’s Cambodia ‘sphere of influence’ to the South, and avoid meeting with Ashin Wirathu in China’s Myanmar ‘sphere of influence in the Southwest. In no case must Trump allow contact outside the official ‘legitimate’ channels of General Prayuth Chan-ocha in China’s Thailand ‘sphere of influence’.
Long live the People’s Party of One China! Yŏngyuăn Gumby!!

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 13 2016 2:29 utc | 26

17
Apparently we will continue to stress-position each other with Game of Thrones and waterboard each other with the Red and Blue Koolaid, but there is not a R.R.C.H’s crack-spread between Bolton and Clinton-Kerry. They all spring from the bowels of Hades like Golum, ever since Reagan2 star wars, ever since GLB 1998 soft coup, ever since 9/11 hard coup, vomiting from Moloch’s maw in now the 1,000,000s, and no matter who you voted for, a Red or Blue chimera, in 125 days from now, that One Party of Mil.Gov will be coming to beat you down for $3,400,000,000,000 moar.
“We won, you lost. It’s just business, get over it. Your SS is now ours.”

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 13 2016 2:43 utc | 27

Carl Bernstein, The New Republic, 1992, http://carlbernstein.com/magazines_the_idiot_culture.pdf

Posted by: stumpy | Dec 13 2016 2:47 utc | 28

@dynkyd | Dec 12, 2016 9:09:52 PM | 24, 28
From my recollection before the 60’s Aussie “White Policy”. No Asians allow mostly Anglo Saxon and Greek. In the 80’s and 90’s travelled yearly to Downunder on company business and bought a “sea view” property in Perth, but sold it few years later.
Singapore, other Asian countries dominate new international education rankings (RT 2015 results)
https://www.rt.com/news/369408-pisa-survey-singapore-schoolchildren/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
BBC 2013 Results
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26249042

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 13 2016 2:56 utc | 29

@25 david
i had given circe’s latest tl:dr comment a skip, but had a look thanks to yourself … you’re in alphabetical order as well, d after c.
seems to me that tee-rump has just changed priorities, first china then russia, rather than the other way round. so it’s russia and the us against china, according to tee-rump. and while we’re not warring against our new best friend russia we can be looting her – whether rex tillerson at state or just on tap – and, frankly, the us needs a lot of help in reducing china to vassal. at least making russia a more neutral ‘partner’ will help.
@circe, ‘This is what you should be focusing on …’
you need your own blog, sweetie, and focus on it! one from which to sing out to sailors ‘lost at sea’. go for it. it’s inconvenient to do all the scrolling required to pass your lengthy expositions on your one and only subject here. don’t be a parasite riding b’s coattails, spending his dime, spreading your own brand of poison in his clinic … spread your wings and fly, out into the wide world on your own. someone’s waiting for you out there, i’m sure. maybe more than one.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 13 2016 2:56 utc | 30

@Jack Smith
Chinese first settled in Australia in the 1850s – the Gold Rush in Victoria. There is evidence that they explored the country before Europeans came. There has been a very significant (and influential) Chinese community in Australia for a long time. Both Sydney and Melbourne have Chinatowns.

Posted by: dynkyd | Dec 13 2016 3:04 utc | 31

The particular aircraft that is subject of these stories is the H6, which is classified as a recon and “special missions” aircraft, and so was likely gathering data such as radar signals.
The truth is interesting, that they are making efforts to gather such data. We might also have interest in what they are likely to have found or not found, as in missile and aircraft defenses, and antisubmarine measures, and other control of the sea surface lines of communication.
Instead, they characterize the planes for a role in which the Russians used earlier versions decades ago.
This is the sort of media ignorance that captions pictures of APC’s and SPG’s as “tanks” and everything flying as a “fighter.”

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Dec 13 2016 3:13 utc | 32

@jfl Good points you raise. I think Trump is definitely being advised on a divide/conquer strategy as you and Circe have outlined here. Isolating the stronger of two opponents by allying with the weaker one. This is like a 21st century replay (of vague sorts) what happened when Nixon visited China. Chairman Mao was aware of that strategy, I think and was rightly skeptical. Hopefully the Russians have learned the same lesson and don’t cozy up to Trump too much…but given how agreeable they are to ceasefires in Aleppo, I’m not so sure. haha.

Posted by: David | Dec 13 2016 3:13 utc | 33

circe@17
Thank you for bringing your and Wm. Engdahl’s perspective into the discussion. I’m still trying to understand how or why Putin would be taken in by what Engdahl calls “a deception strategy” (i.e., all the current elbow-throwing between the CIA and Trump). But I am inclined to believe Trump is disenchanted with the dependence of the empire on Islamic extremists to accomplish what he and Lt. General Flynn think needs to be done. That means the huge investment in al-Qaeda and ISIS is hanging in the balance, along with the careers of many insiders.

Posted by: Berry Friesen | Dec 13 2016 3:14 utc | 34

And as someone mentioned previously, one goal of this isolation strategy would be to harm the developing Russia/China strategic relationship. apologies for double post.

Posted by: David | Dec 13 2016 3:15 utc | 35

The only thing we fear to have, is ourselves had.
So much post-election fear mongering and BS slinging, I would say times are ripe for another Gulf of Tonkin moment. Although, so far, the manufactured consent has not led us into war at sufficient scale to break into a charge at full gallop at whichever windmill happens to be fashionable.
I would say that the Palmyra re-occupation was a relatively deft move while American eyes were on Aleppo and the Russian doping scandal. Or was Palmyra itself the deception while another ball is set in play across the field?
+2 for irony: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/12/isiss-atrocities-in-the-middle-east-recall-viet-congs-1971-duc-duc-massacre/

Posted by: stumpy | Dec 13 2016 3:22 utc | 36

@23 It’s not my quote; tell it to Farrakhan.
@33 Whut? Start an echo chamber? Blech ):
@25 Zing!
@21 psy…Right on! oh and regarding your latest-acquired skill; when you try it again, click on preview before you click post to ensure it worked.
@19 Curtis

I thought it was the Taiwan president who called Trump to congratulate him. What was he supposed to do, be rude and hang up? It sounds like much ado BS thrown at the wall to see what sticks.

From Vanity Fair:
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/donald-trump-taiwan-china
But yeah, one phone call is small fry, compared to this disaster in the making:

This alliance of powerful representatives of predatory financial capitalists and right-wing supporters of the immense military-industrial-surveillance complex makes clear Trump’s support of the worst elements of neoliberalism—a war on education, support for austerity policies, and an attack on social provisions, the poor, workers, unions, and the most vulnerable. As Eric Sommer wrote in CounterPunch, “These ministerial level cabinet selections are a warning that far greater attacks on the social and economic rights of American workers, and greater militarism and military aggression abroad are being prepared.”[9] Trump’s affirmation of an updated version of the Gilded Age and his attempts to accelerate America’s slide into authoritarianism is an assault on reason, compassion, morality, and human dignity. Its underside is a political mix of militarism and rule by the financial elite, both of which are central features of a savage neoliberal assault on democracy. Trump’s government of billionaires and militarists makes clear that the next few years will be governed by ruthless financial elite who will give new meaning to a war culture that will impose forms of domestic terrorism across a wide swath of American society.
Thus far, Trump has appointed three generals to join his cabinet—James Mattis and Michael Flynn for Secretary of Defense and National Security Advisor, along with Retired General John Kelly to head the Department of Homeland Security. Kelly is infamous for defending the force-feeding of prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay and wants to expand the prison population there. Retired General Mattis, whose nickname is “Mad Dog,” stated in 2003, the year that Iraq was invaded, that “It’s fun to shoot some people, you know, it’s a hell of a hoot.”[10] He once told marines under his command “Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”[11] As difficult as it is to imagine it gets worse. Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Trump’s choice for national security advisor considers Islam, with its population of 1.3 billion, a terrorist threat. He has also used the social media to spread fake news stories “linking Mrs. Clinton to underage sex rings and other serious crimes [while pushing] unsubstantiated claims about Islamic laws spreading in the United States.”[12] At work here is an emerging political-social formation in which fake news becomes an accepted mode of shaping public discourse, inexperience and incompetence become revered criteria for holding public office, and social responsibility is removed from any vestige of politics. All of these appointments point to the emergence of a new political order in which the dystopian fears of George Orwell and Aldus Huxley are merged with the comic grotesquery of the tyrannical systems lampooned by the Marx brothers.

overcoming-the-rule-of-billionaires-and-militarists…
Couldn’t have put it better myself, except to add …and re-invented Neocon advisors.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 13 2016 4:54 utc | 37

i have my doubts whether bolton will even get the job. it’s not formalized yet.
@33, i agree – he should get his own blog. the attitude’s laid on too thick for my taste.

Posted by: annie | Dec 13 2016 5:30 utc | 38

After threatening to tear up the Iran nuclear deal,
the man who pledge to ‘quit as world cop, engage the world, bring back the troops’ now openly threaten China to give way on trades and some others,
else he’d stir up shit on the TW straits…in addition to SCS, Korean peninsula etc etc. !
Is this the mafiaso or the potus speaking, am I repeating myself ??
Donald Trump [Hey Chicoms, your money or your lives !]
Jim *mad dog* Mattis, [I hate Iran !]
John Bolton the insane, [I enjoy shaking the chicoms up real good]
Rudy *911 whitewash* Guiliani,
Mike [I hate Kim JOng Un] Penny…..
The stench from the ‘swamp’ is overpowering,
its enough to send a chill down one’s spine !
So this is the man who’s win in the 2016 ‘election’ is supposed to avert WWIII ??
OMFG !!

Posted by: denk | Dec 13 2016 5:41 utc | 39

@33 & 41
Indeed, Circe’s solid hard on for The Don deserves it’s own internet postcode, possibly two…its a big one. Calm down Circe, deep breaths, no one here is searching for Jesus.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Dec 13 2016 6:29 utc | 40

Yet another red flag: The deep state’s quisling is postponing his major news conference on business interests until after the Electoral College votes. Howww convenient.
He hides his taxes; he keeps us in suspense as to how he’s going to divest himself from his businesses; because HE’S NOT; it’s bull; like everything else.
He lies about the call to Taiwan set up by Yates and Bolton and maybe Neufeld pretending it’s just congratulatory when it’s really a shift in policy.
Opaque, secretive and manipulative.
And this is still the honeymoon. Wait.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 13 2016 6:31 utc | 41

I think I’ve just chewed all my fingernails off just reading this. As a matter of fact, I’m gonna start digging my prepper cage right now!
See you all on the other side! Goodbye cruel world! The End is near!
Wait!
Changed my mind. I’m gonna build a large boat instead. But I’m only taking Circe, so at least it won’t be boring.
Oh, oh, oh, oh and two by two my human zoo
They’ll be running for to come
Running for to come out of the rain
Oh flee for your life
Who heed me not let all your treasure make you
Oh fear for your life
Deceive you not the fires of hell will take you
Should death await you

Posted by: Rodney | Dec 13 2016 6:33 utc | 42

This citation link (http://bos.sagepub.com/content/71/4/77.full.pdf+html) appears broken to me. Does it work for anyone else?

Posted by: Armen | Dec 13 2016 6:55 utc | 43

@ denk and others that think that Mattis will make it.
I read somewhere that you have to be “out” of the military for 7 before holding govt. position and what I read said he has only been out 3 and the “principled Dems” said they would not allow changing the law for him.
So if he gets in, it is just another rule change like the ongoing ZIRP rape of the public coffers…..Obama told us it was all legal soon after he was first (s)elected.
To b’s post,
If TPTB are creating fake nuclear bomb fear toward China they must be very desperate. How long before more economies come to a full stop like India, Venezuela, most of the ME, etc. I just know that war is not the answer but wonder to what extent it will be tried by the US/West/Israel owners of the world? Is this a “factional” fight between parts of the global elite families or a structural shift when being a millionaire is chump change? One could say we have been in the Roaring 20’s since 2008 and soon enough all the new money will be wiped away.
What is the next fake reality to run the Matrix with? Gotta keep those heads spinning….keep them faith breathing….
Some day soon that Merry-Go-Round is going to have a BIG hitch in its fake reality Matrix and bring the whole world to a stop. What will humanity do then if it doesn’t go to war. How about building a world the works for the 99% for a while?
Drain The Swamp = end private finance by creating totally sovereign finance using MMT as the latest model. Look what China has done with 13 Five-year plans. What sort of a world balances the expectations of and contributions to the benefits from community? We have a myriad of socialism around us already. We just need to figure out the KISS version of integrating cultures and norms around a model of political economy that is not profit for the 1% driven but encourages evolution for the 99%.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 13 2016 7:09 utc | 44

@Armen
link is indeed broken – just tried from a search engine and that link is also broken – problem seems to be on the Sagepub side.
Here is an alternative (will update this into the post above)
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0096340215591247?journalCode=rbul20
On that page click on “Full article”

Posted by: b | Dec 13 2016 7:23 utc | 45

@Circe – stay on topic of the thread or get banned
@all news all the time aka rufus magister – u r banned for repeatedly insulting other commentators and me – that plus posting nonsensical bloviating – all your comments have been deleted

Posted by: b | Dec 13 2016 7:36 utc | 46

@46
Did you notice that all my posts mention China and/or Taiwan?
Maybe you can point to the post that doesn’t.
And is every comment on this thread on topic?
How about 2, 12, 8, 9, 24, 27 all OT and 40’s a.h. innuendo? Just asking…for as much latitude as they got.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 13 2016 8:47 utc | 47

How about b’s lies about the remaining population in East Aleppo. The disgusting lie of 40,000 from years ago that b keep spreading. That’s fake news too from MoA
Will that get b banned from his own site.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201612131048482878-aleppo-under-syrian-government-control/

Posted by: tom | Dec 13 2016 8:54 utc | 48

From The Hague @5
Israel has finally received its two F-35s. The delivery was delayed by an unplanned 6 hour stopover in Italy due to the wrong kind of weather!
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/bmpd.livejournal.com/2321578.html

Posted by: Yonatan | Dec 13 2016 12:02 utc | 49

More on China…
Trump must make to understand before persuade regime change or two Chinas policy with Japan. China had never forgotten Japan’s atrocities against the Chinese in SEA and China and will retaliate. Nanjing was China capital before Japanese Invasion. Japanese troops massacre more than 300,000 civilians and troops defending the city. To better understand Nanjing Massacre the first Nanjing Massacre memorial service held on Dec 13. 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA4V3qs8X9g
and here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdM3_kzhscM

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 13 2016 12:37 utc | 50

As expected, b is belittling the dangers looming over USA and the entire Western civilizations. The few who are fully aware are so terrified that they cannot even spare few tears for Aleppo. Today’s opinion piece in The Guardian, “The Republicans are delivering America into Putin’s hands” by David Klion, paints the picture full of gloomy grandeur.
You think that a bunch of semi-competent internet trolls aided by a smallish galaxy of puppet websites like “Moon of Alabama” cannot enslave such a mighty country like USA? Foolish and naive! This is PRECISELY how Catherine, Empress of All Russias, finished off the large and populous Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 18-th century! Frankly, being educated in Poland I knew many details about that, but this particular key aspect is actually something that I have learned only this morning.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 13 2016 13:07 utc | 51

Jake Smith, I understand that you are awed by China and you fully support the plan to avenge to victims of Nanjing massacre by taking over Senkaku Islands that are so far defended by Imperial Navy and Air Force. Chinese steadfastness can be attested in this song. Alas, contemporary Chinese culture is a melange of various foreign influences (e.g. that song is actually Soviet), while Japanese remain more authentic, listen to this.
By the way, the last song was used in a well known opera of Gilbert and Sullivan, “Mikado” (Miya Sama). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqG7iDCxgqc

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 13 2016 13:36 utc | 52

Trump did not get elected on Chinese regime change,or any other regime,so stop the nonsense.
And Curtis’s rudeness take is exactly correct,as she called him,and he’s supposed to lick the balls of the MSM and 0-shrub coalition of idiots and traitors?
I think he’s doing fine so far,as the MSM is up in arms over his choices,which of course,for actual thinking people,means he’s doing fine.
Look at the Russian Tillerson garbage.
Pizza gate disappears from the MSM;Why would they kill a story that enforces their fake news propaganda?It’s true?

Posted by: dahoit | Dec 13 2016 14:15 utc | 53

@ psychohistorian 20
hmmm…. interesting that Rawstory/WaPo account especially that sources in the Trump campaign confirmed it to them but not to the rest of the world. Forked tongues in his advisory staff? But if true, that means the call was staged. But why? To simply thumb his nose at and provoke China? This is possible. (And while I see Trump as the lesser of the two evils, I am not pro-Trump and have problems with several of his staff picks as well as the pro-Israel, pro-WallStreet aspects.)
While talking up Russia he has definitely talked down China. But it is too late to play the Taiwan card as that was thrown away decades ago.

Posted by: Curtis | Dec 13 2016 14:33 utc | 54

@Piotr Berman | Dec 13, 2016 8:36:01 AM | 52
b, hope you allow me to continue:-)
I’m concern backlash against Chinese in USA and Pro Taiwanese Chinese against Pro PRC Chinese (Sunni and Shiite Muslims) if Trump persuades two Chinas policies. Unlike Russians, there are substantial Chinese living in the US. MoAs most likely pro Russia then pro China if the regime changer keep harping “democracy, humanity”, blah, blah… Hopes Trump plays his cards well with Iowa Gov. Branstad as ambassador to China compare to Obomo’s shit – ABC (American born Chinese) Gary Locke Washington.
I’m not an academia, Eng not my mother tongue, Briefly Chinese (contemporary) cultures social evolution speedup after Qing dynasty influenced by Western powers, Soviet Union and Japanese which occupied China. Do searches on Tian Han and Nie Er composers of China’s national anthem, written in the vernacular, rather than in Classical Chinese. However, have you heard of Chinese’s (Peking, Beijing) Opera? and still (lesser degree) perform in rural areas in SEA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPegoquV5I
https://www.coursera.org/learn/china-culture-contemporary

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 13 2016 15:29 utc | 55

Oops, missed MoAs are more pro Japan than pro China?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 13 2016 15:56 utc | 56

I agree with the analysis, I just want to amend a detail:
Saying the Hongzha-6 bomber was developed in the late 50ies and making this seem like an antiquated piece of equipment is put into perspective when we look a the US and Russian still active counterparts:
B-52 – nuclear capable- developed late 40ies
TU-95 – nuclear capable- developed late 40ies

Posted by: But please note this… | Dec 13 2016 16:26 utc | 57

@57 bpnt
yeah, but remember, nuclear bombers are one-way items. don’t want to spend too much money on expensive upgrades.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 13 2016 16:37 utc | 58

BBC & chemical weapon memes
Dozens of people have been killed in air strikes and a suspected gas attack near the Syrian city of Palmyra, monitoring groups say.
The targeted area is controlled by the so-called Islamic State group and has been under heavy bombardment from government-aligned forces.
Dozens of people are said to have been killed during the combined assaults.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38295309
I am of the opinion that more gas is generated by BBC fake news than has been used in Syria, ever!

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 13 2016 16:51 utc | 59

@59
‘monitoring groups say’
Would it be prudent to state that ‘monitoring groups’ consists of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights located in UK is the source? I hear the ‘Observatory’ has a telescope that can see all the way back to Syria.

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 13 2016 16:54 utc | 60

I am sorry for non-serious post. On a serious note, Chinese government is preoccupied with internal matters first, trade second, and to don Great Power mantle is picking smallish fights with nearby countries that concern tiny islands, in many cases the dispute being if these are islands at all.
Further away, Chinese take some token non-Western position and in UNSC, they are also quite independent. At the end of the day, their impact on Middle East is smallish, except that it is valuable that China does not join Western sanctions of Iran and Syria. Neither does India, Pakistan etc.
On Taiwan, it is pretty complicated. Taiwanese emphatically do not wish to be ruled from Beijing, and they are willing to undergo long conscript service and to spend adequately on defense. USA has no interest in changing that. But there is deference to “Beijing sensibilities” in various formal ways, e.g. Taiwan has a representative in Washington rather than an embassy. It is Trump’s trademark not to care about sensibilities, which gives Beijing government a good opportunity to verbally stand tall. In my opinion, this is a show on both sides.
Another aspect is that 40-30 years ago the West had convincing technological superiority over China and Soviet Union, translating into clear superior of military planes, guidance systems for missiles (but not missiles themselves) etc., but this gap is decreasing quite quickly, so Taiwan (de facto) independence is increasingly grounded in commercial interests of the mainland China that would be harmed by an acute conflict with the West. In some sense, Russia is much more adapted to such a conflict because their main exports are “primary” and weapons, that are not much affected by sanctions etc., and the national control over those resources has a paramount importance for the population. And Russians have experience of deep ups and downs that follow the swings on the commodity markets. By the way of contrast, Chinese are habituated to quick economic growth and the government is very nervous about anything that can hinder that growth. And like Japan, at some point this fast growth has to decelerate and attempts to postpone that may lead to a deep crisis. Economically, the later it happens the larger industrial base China will happen, politically, that will lead to a sharp transition (which does not have to be deep, Japan experienced some reshuffle in the establishment, but to affected individuals, this may be painful, even more so in China).
PS 1. With the first name Piotr, I have some excuses to err in English, but Jack Smith? Concerning Chinese classic opera, I have seen it once on stage
PS 2. One of my multi-cultural favorites, Black Dragon River Waltz (the dragon is black, not the river or the waltz).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 13 2016 17:05 utc | 61

..On Taiwan, it is pretty complicated. Taiwanese emphatically do not wish to be ruled from Beijing, and ……USA has no interest in changing that. But there is deference to “Beijing sensibilities”
Agreed. One China policy is complicated taking into consideration HK, Macao, other provinces and her neighbors, but wrong to said emphatically does not wish to be ruled from Beijing. How do you know? Without checking – my opinions if a referendum in ROC, it may end up like Brexit, unlike Brexit it will not end up peacefully. PRC is determined to keep Taiwan and eventually peaceful reunification or another civil war, like the last one Chiang Kai Shek and Mao Zedong while fighting the Jap. Of course NeoCon and NeoLiberal would love endless wars and breakup China. Beijing is “sensibilities”, what do you mean?
Are you now in Taiwan or in the mainland? KMT and CCP ideology can be settling peacefully between them. Unwilling to revel my background, I know more than most keyboard warriors here on China but poor writing skills.
I’m lucky yesterday in Sputnik radio World in Focus: Sputnik’s Daily Current Affairs Program | 12/12/16 2 guests commented on Trump’s One China policy… fuck Gerrit van der Wees, I’m more or less in agreement with Professor Suisheng Zhao. Listen key words, unnegotiable, price to pay, core interest and US willing to go to war?
https://sputniknews.com/radio_world_in_focus/201612121048476416-china-trump-gambia-jammeh-eu-refugees/

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 13 2016 21:35 utc | 62

Dear Jack: have you talked with a Taiwanese? And among those you know, how many wish to live in an autonomous province?
I happened to talk with people from Taiwan. Moreover, I am not sure how open politics in Taiwan are, but I did not read about a political party there advocating the unification before a government change in Beijing.
Concerning “sensibilities”, Beijing raises a big noise anytime a country conducts some official business with Taiwan. They have official policy etc. And how can you call yourself a grand country without grand standing? You must have some causes. That said, I really soured somewhat on China when the government whipped up an anti-Japanese hysteria caused by some meaningless Japanese act on Senkaku Islands, and mobs actually were attacking drivers of Japanese cars on the streets. Chinese drivers of cars made in China.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 13 2016 23:02 utc | 63

Scratching my head.. made a relevant comment to post #6

Posted by: Lozion | Dec 14 2016 0:05 utc | 64

I did simple search and under the dead cats image you will find the following
“Our friend Bridget Cavanaugh took this photo today at the end of her driveway, just less than a mile outside of Bozeman’s city limits. Here’s how this mountain lion and this housecat ended up dead, side by side:
Bridget says the lion chased the kitty up an electrical pole and the kitty hit the top wire as the big cat grabbed its back leg (note that the kitty’s back leg is cut open), then the big cat hit the second wire. The lion and the kitty were electrocuted and died, dropping to the ground right below the wires. (Bridget knows which cat hit which line because there’s still fur on both wires). Fish, Wildlife and Parks picked up the cats this afternoon.
It’s an odd story, but also a frightening one for Bridget who has little children. She writes: “It’s to us chilling because our kids play just down the dirt road. We had no idea this mountain lion was living in our pastures, eating young deer and climbing electrical poles to eat the neighbor’s cat.”

Posted by: Dan E | Dec 14 2016 1:12 utc | 65

@Piotr Berman | Dec 13, 2016 6:02:35 PM | 63
So you talk to people from Taiwan. Questions where? In Taiwan, USA, Australia, NZ, Canada, blah. blah It make the world of different. ABC or Taiwanese living, studying or working in western countries are mainly western educated – believe western democracshits… brainwashed so to speak. If you provide conclusive proof the majority Taiwanese (more than 65%) wanna two Chinas, I will politely admit you are right. However, base on my unique background and last three elections in Taiwan. I am convinced it will be Brexit. If the differences between one China and two Chinas are less than 30%, there will be massive disobedient, short of civil war in Taiwan. Guaranteed!
Further, I assume you did not views all videos/audio (skip opera, PISA) posted earlier. Please skimp 3 videos below (please), especially, Professor Suisheng Zhao – 6.21 to 11.5minutes. He explained exactly most China watchers believe it will happen. Understands China long history foreigners interventions and collaboration with Russia Federation military technology. Again questions – why buy an old junk aircraft carrier and continue AN-225 lift aircraft from Ukraine,why stages the first Nanjing memorial in Nanjing and elsewhere now, blah, blah…. Why?
#50 – video Nanjing staged massive civilians and soldiers murdered….
#50 – Unit 713 documentary Jap. and Amerika atrocities. Experiment live Chinese with WMD. Should include books by the late Iris Chang.
#62 – audio Professor Suisheng Zhao explains China position as China watchers see it.
Senkaku Islands is a different issue. Amerika sold out China after WW2.
Hopes Trump plays his cards well with Iowa Gov. Branstad as ambassador to China
Excuse my Eng. 🙂

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 14 2016 3:06 utc | 66

Taiwan was stolen from the mainland by Chiang kai-Shek and his Kuomintang with the help of US gunboats who covered his escape. Not even Taiwan disputes this. Taiwan is indisputably Chinese. Its citizens look Chinese, speak Chinese, read Chinese and eat Chinese food.

Posted by: ruralito | Dec 14 2016 3:47 utc | 67

psychohistorian 44
mad man theory in practice ?
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/10/mad-man-theory-trump-and-taiwan.html

Posted by: denk | Dec 14 2016 7:06 utc | 68

@ denk who brought my attention to an article by Matthew Jamison who is a Senior Parliamentary Researcher at the House of Commons. He holds two degrees from Cambridge University. The link is is cc #68
Thanks for the link. What I didn’t see in this article was the Trump business hotel building interest connection. It is becoming clear Trump intends on using the US Presidency to launch his family into the big time of global plutocrats. Is he doing this as part of a global plutocrat shake out?
Where is the line in the sand for China? Do they start dumping their US Treasuries more before or after Trump gets into office…..I have not read a recent report of their more recent sales.
All us folks at the bottom know is some big shit is being stirred up to justify some coming emergency declaration of something further screwing the 99% of us on the planet……as we generate textual white noise like myself…

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 14 2016 8:00 utc | 69

@67 Taiwanese largely identify as being Taiwanese rather than Chinese. It’s not like China’s some bastion of goodwill – it’s as ruthless as any other major power in history.
I think PRC leadership has been wise about the situation, and will only react to what Taiwan does. If Trump escalates things, China will asymmetrically respond with in-kind

Posted by: aaaa | Dec 14 2016 8:24 utc | 70

@67 ruralito, ‘Taiwan was stolen from the mainland by Chiang kai-Shek and his Kuomintang …’
i’d always heard that general cash-my-check stole taiwan from the taiwanese, not unlike the way japan stole okinawa from the okinawans … or the way the us stole hawaii, and the philippines from the hawaiians and filipinos respectively.
the transplanted mainland chinese – the ‘nationalists’ – dominated taiwanese politics after they invaded and occupied the island. i think the present president of taiwan is taiwanese. not unlike elaine chao, mitch mcconnell’s wife and tee-rump’s secretary of the transportation – her daddy’s in the shipping bidness. okinawa is still run by the japanese and the us. looks like tee-rump would like to return that sort of pecking order to taiwan as well.
china won’t stand for it, i don’t think. tee-rump may well be the one who gets us all kicked in the ass … right in the pocket we carry our wallets.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 14 2016 9:59 utc | 71

I rented a room to a Taiwanese student, so I must admit it is a small sample. I also observed that Taiwanese students have some peculiar customs that instantly differentiate them from mainland students, so I theorized that they have a mentality “we are not the same”. Similarly, mainland Chinese get very emotional on some issues that also instantly identifies them. I suggest that Jack Smith change name to Jade Phoenix or Fox River Tiger (Fox River is the meaning of Manchu name of Ussuri River).
That said, what is Bolton doing at the top of Trump foreign policy team? Both Bolton and Trump have a penchant for insulting people. It will be interesting.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 14 2016 14:18 utc | 72

When you say that the flight by China had nothing to do with Trump’s phone call, you argue that China “regularly flies these bombers”, and you support that statement by linking to a Philstar article that talks about China flying over Scarborough shoal. This shoal, however, is far south of Taiwan. Someone could argue that China flying regularly in the South China Sea doesn’t answer the question of whether or not China was responding to Trump’s phone call with this flight near Taiwan. If China regularly flies in the South China Sea, but rarely near Taiwan, maybe China did fly near Taiwan because of the phone call. What we need to know is how often China flies near Taiwan.
Regarding the issue of flying near Taiwan, China announced in mid-September that it would start flying “regular” exercises past the “first island chain”, which includes Japan’s Ryukyu Islands and Taiwan:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/11/26/national/china-sends-fighter-jets-bombers-sensitive-strait-south-okinawa/#.WFIOR7IrK70
In the Focus Taiwan article that was linked to by your Fox news article (http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aipl/201612050016.aspx), it says that it is “publicly known” that Chinese planes flew near Taiwan on 25 Sept, 27 Oct, and 25 Nov., and Chang Yuan-hsun, the deputy chief of Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense’s General Staff for Intelligence, says that there are more incidents than that which were not publicized. So, including the flight on 9 Dec, there are 4 known flights near Taiwan and an unknown number of additional ones.
The flights near Taiwan are routine (at least since mid-September), and the flight on 9 December was just one of these routine flights.
It had nothing to do with Trump’s call.
Taiwan’s Defense Minister agrees that the flight had nothing to do with Trump’s call:
“[Defense Minister Feng Shih-kuan] noted that Saturday’s mission was part of the PLA’s annual training mission, which happened to take place after the historic phone call between President Tsai Ing-wen and U.S. President-elect Donald Trump on Dec. 2, Feng said.”
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2016/12/13/486579/Growing-threat.htm
(China Post is a Taiwan news source)
The spokesman for China’s Defense Ministry said that the flight was part of a pre-planned training exercise (not a response to Trump’s call), and is not targeting any specific country. And it’s legal:
“The Miyako Strait is a universally acknowledged international flight passage…The exercise had been planned within this year’s air force training routine. It does not target any specific country nor objective and it adheres to international law and practices.”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/12/11/national/japanese-chinese-military-aircraft-engage-latest-tit-tat-move-airspace-western-pacific/#.WFIUa7IrK70
The statement of the Chinese spokesman agrees with the facts. It is the US media that lies.
The MSM says that you can tell a “real” news story if it quotes specific people rather than unnamed sources. Your Stars and Stripes article quotes “Toshiyuki Shikata, a retired lieutenant general in Japan’s Ground Self-Defense Force and a professor at Teikyo University” as saying this: “[Trump’s] phone call spurred China to demonstrate a show of force”. Nope. The phone call had nothing to do with it. If you quote a named person that says bullshit, it’s still fake news.
The Western media makes it sound like the Chinese planes circled around Taiwan and went home, which makes the story fit with their narrative that the flight was in response to the phone call. However, the planes also flew near Japan (see both of the links from the Japan Times above). The Western MSM virtually ignores that the planes flew near Japan, because it doesn’t fit their Trump angle.
The title of the Independent article you linked to says that the flight by China was a “message to Trump. The Japan Times article above (the first one), says that the purpose of the flight was “apparently to send a message to Tokyo”. China runs a routine training exercise, and every country it comes near sees it as a “message” to them. Propaganda is fun.
The same Japan Times article says that China came close to Japan 407 times within a six month period (that’s the number of times it scrambled jets). I guess that’s 407 “messages to Tokyo”. (This also shows how routine this type of thing really is). In the same 6-month period, there were 187 flights that Japan scrambled jets for that were not Chinese. What other countries are sending planes close to Japan? Why aren’t there crazed propaganda articles about those incidents?
Also, the western media says that the planes “circled” Taiwan, which, if true, does sound like an attempt to send a message. Your FOX story says that China flew their planes “around Taiwan”, and it quotes Taiwan’s Deputy Defense Minister saying that “this was the first time that Chinese aircraft circled around Taiwan”. Your NBC story says twice that China “encircled Taiwan”. The China Post article I linked to, however, says (twice) that the planes “circled near Taiwan” (and Bloomberg repeats this: https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-12-11/japan-watches-uneasily-as-trump-shakes-up-taiwan-china-relations). Circling near and circling around are different. I really don’t think China’s planes really flew 600+ miles around Taiwan to send their “message”. The just flew by it. And the West freaks out.
Once last thing: your Stars and Stripes article says this:
“Two H-6 bombers and two escort planes also flew around Taiwan on Nov. 26, Fox News reported, again citing two unnamed U.S. officials.”
Why do they need “unnamed officials” to say something that was all over the media? It wasn’t a secret. It’s all so ridiculous.

Posted by: billy | Dec 15 2016 7:39 utc | 73

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