Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 15, 2016

The "Elite" Coup Of 2016

  • There is an "elite" coup attempt underway against the U.S. President-elect Trump.
  • The coup is orchestrated by the camp of Hillary Clinton in association with the CIA and neoconservative powers in Congress.
  • The plan is to use the CIA's "Russia made Trump the winner" nonsense to swing the electoral college against him. The case would then be bumped up to Congress. Major neocon and warmonger parts of the Republicans could then move the presidency to Clinton or, if that fails, put Trump's vice president-elect Mike Pence onto the throne. The regular bipartisan war business, which a Trump presidency threatens to interrupt, could continue.
  • Should the coup succeed violent insurrections in the United States are likely to ensue with unpredictable consequences.

The above theses are thus far only a general outlay. No general plan has been published. The scheme though is pretty obvious by now. However, the following contains some speculation.

The priority aim is to deny Trump the presidency. He is too independent and a danger for several power centers within the ruling U.S. power circles. The selection of Tillerson as new Secretary of State only reinforces this (Prediction: Bolton will not get the Deputy position.)  Tillerson is for profitable stability, not for regime change adventures. The institutional Trump enemies are:

  • The CIA which has become the Central Assassination Agency under the Bush and Obama administrations. Huge parts of its budgets depend on a continuation of the war on Syria and the drone assassination campaigns in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere. Trump's more isolationist policies would likely end these campaigns and the related budget troughs.
  • The weapons industry which could lose its enormous sales to its major customers in the Persian Gulf should a President Trump reduce U.S. interference in the Middle East and elsewhere.
  • The neoconservatives and Likudniks who want the U.S. as Israel's weapon to strong arm the Middle East to the Zionists' benefit.
  • The general war hawks, military and "humanitarian interventionists" to whom any reduction of the U.S. role as primary power in the world is anathema to their believes.

The current CIA director Brennan, a leading figure of the CIA torture program and Obama consigliere, is in the Clinton/anti-Trump camp. The former CIA heads Hayden and Panetta are public Clinton supporters as is torturer king and former CIA deputy director Michael Morell.

It is thereby no wonder that the CIA is leading the anti-Russian campaign. Its task now is to implant the idea in the U.S. public that Russian intervention skewed the U.S. election towards Trump. The purpose is the delegitimization of the Trump victory in the eyes of the media and public but even more so in the eyes of the electors within the electoral college.

The CIA is heavily supported by the same mainstream media that pushed for Clinton during the election. (These are, not by chance, also the same media that pushed the CIA's earlier "Saddam's Weapon of Mass Destruction" campaign.)

The Democratic partisan and Harvard law Professor Lawrence Lessig is pushing the electors and offers them free personal legal support. He says the electoral college vote is now close.

Could 37 Republican electors, put there by voters in their states to vote for Trump, be convinced to move from electing Trump to abstain or vote for someone else, Trump would miss the needed 270 votes. The whole election of the president would then by kicked up to the House of Representatives.

Should the electors vote for Trump there is still a possibility that members of the House and the Senate could officially question that vote and cause delays or Congressional probes and legal challenges.

Here are the detailed general proceedings and specifics for the electoral college as explained by the National Archives and Records Administration.

Though neoconservatives have no genuine support within the U.S. electorate they have a strong hold on significant parts of Congress and the relevant MSM commentariat. Many leading neoconservatives and war hawks like Robert Kagan, Max Boot and the Washington Post editorial board came out for Clinton during the campaign. Clinton even ran campaign advertisements with Republican Congress luminaries like Lindsay Graham, Sasse and Flake.

The House and the Senate majority may well be on the anti-Trump side if push comes to shove. But whatever the outcome there surely would be intense legal challenges and I expect the case to go up to the Supreme Court.

As an alternative to legal shenanigans Trump's inauguration could be delayed by Obama's order to the intelligence community to create a formal review of Russian intervention in the election by January 20. That is not by chance the official inauguration date! The selling point:

By ordering a “full review” of allegations of Russian into the 2016 election process, President Barack Obama is essentially asking the IC to make an analytical judgment about the validity of the election that will place Trump in the Oval Office.

A "compromise" in Congress could be to wait for the Intelligence Community's analysis and then discuss it before certifying Trump as president. That would end up with no result as National Intelligence Estimates are notoriously vague. Meanwhile the Vice President-elect would sit in as acting President:

If the President-elect fails to qualify before inauguration, Section 3 of the 20th Amendment states that the Vice President-elect will act as President until such a time as a President has qualified.

If the congressional or legal process around the Trump election gets delayed, that may be a state for a long time. The ruling Washington blob or borg could well live with an acting President Pence while Trump would have no official say in any government business. (Could Clinton then become acting VP or qualify as the new president?)

The media intervention on the anti-Trump side is heavy.

But first keep in mind that there is no public evidence, ZERO, that Russia indeed had anything to do with the DNC or Podesta or other leaks and the publication of emails by various outlets like Wikileaks.

Craig Murray assures us that he knows that these were not hacks but insider leaks and that he knows the leaker(s). Indeed he now tells us that the emails were handed over to him during a visits in Washington. Former intelligence officials including the technically very knowledgeable former NSA official William Binney concur that the hacking story is false.

All we have heard or seen so far are hearsay rumors and allegations of evidence. To me as experienced IT professional the case is technically laughable just as Murray explains here. If the claimed hacks occurred at all the alleged methods were so common that anybody could have done these. There is not even one claimed fact yet that is technically halfway acceptable as evidence that "Russia did it".

But still the NYT runs a big package of pieces telling us that "Russia did it" based on the non-factual CIA rumors and unprofessional IT assertions by Crowdstrike, the self-promoting IT security company the DNC hired and paid. Before that the Washington Post published major claims of Russian interference by anonymous officials. NBC News now tops that with "intelligence officials" saying Putin himself ran the hacking campaign. Authors of the story are the long time insider hacks Bill Arkin and Ken Dilanian known for clearing his stories with the CIA before publishing. The next story will tells us that Vladimir Valdimirovich himself was punching the keyboard.

Many news outlets and editorials follow these "leads".

Part of the scheme the Clinton campaign has worked out was explained by a former opposition research consultant to the Democratic National Council, the Ukrainian-American Alexandra (aka Andrea) Chalupa, in this thread:

Andrea Chalupa ‏@AndreaChalupa Dec 11

1.) Electoral College meets Dec. 19. If Electors ignore #StateOfEmergency we're in, & Trump gets elected, we can stop him Jan. 6 in Congress

2.) If any objections to Electoral College vote are made, they must be submitted in writing, signed by at least 1 House member & 1 Senator

3.) If objections are presented, House & Senate withdraw to their chambers to consider their merits under procedures set out in federal law.
...

Editorials and op-eds in the major papers are pushing the scheme along. Just for example from a long list A.J. Dionne in the Washington Post:

The CIA’s finding that Russia actively intervened in our election to make Trump president is an excellent reason for the electors to consider whether they should exercise their independent power. At the very least, they should be briefed on what the CIA knows, and in particular on whether there is any evidence that Trump or his lieutenants were engaged with Russia during the campaign.

The New York Times editorial laments about Trump ridiculing the CIA fairy tales it promotes.

Many people who have voted for Trump would be disgusted and outraged if or when Trump will be denied his office. Many of them are armed and would protest. Violence is ensured should the coup succeed.

Trump selected four former generals to joins his cabinet and staff. Should the troubles escalate we might be roughly in for a scenario as laid out in the 1992 military paper: The Origins of the American Military Coup of 2012 (pdf) by Charles J. Dunlap.

Posted by b on December 15, 2016 at 18:56 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@ b, I don't doubt that's the pro-Clinton fantasy, but it's doomed to fail.
@ 90, on "how can generating political havoc be a responsible, or even rational, objective?" - Yes, that's neocon lunacy for you, in the spirit of past chaotic interventions, i.e. "when the streets are running with blood, that's the time to buy property." Recall all that cash that went missing in Iraq, the $12 billion flown in on pallets, where half of it vanished? The bank robbery of the century. It's gross criminal corruption, as seen in Clinton Foundation pay-to-play deals. Not that Trump might get up to some of that as well; the "domestic infrastructure program" would be the perfect vehicle for grand larceny, and bears watching carefully.

But getting back to why it's doomed to fail:
1) There is no reliable intel pointing to Russian government involvement in DNC hacks (and anyway, the State Department Hillary emails are far more damning) See this consortium report on why the DNC leak was a leak, not a hack:
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/
Ever since the Iraq War WMD debacle, media and CIA claims like this carry less and less weight - exhibit A being how the CIA/Obama/MI6/Cameron effort to get NATO to attack Syria over the bogus 2013 "Assad chemical weapons attack" was rejected in 2013, unlike the previous Blair/Bush effort in Iraq, 2003. I think this latest one will also end up falling flat on its face.

2) The Electoral College structure (in which states, not the popular vote, elect the President), has a long history that's mostly been ignored by the media. The popular vote doesn't matter in the United States; this is also why the U.S. Senate, the more powerful body of Congress, has two Senators from each state, regardless of population. That's also seen in the electoral vote tally for the states: one for each member in the House of Representatives plus two for each Senator. The idea was to ensure that no one section of the country could control the outcome of presidential elections - and this played out in the past election, where California's large population played the dominant role in the popular vote count. This has been mostly ignored by corporate media:

If you removed only California’s popular votes from the total, this is the result you would get, as of November 16:
Clinton: 55,889,446
Trump: 57,760,819
heavy.com pop vote count

Everyone who complains about the electoral college vs. the popular vote seems to ignore this basic issue in American democracy: states matter.

The real issue seems to be that the CIA and the Obama Administration are paranoid about what will happen if the Trump Administration gets its hands on all the information about their covert action program in Syria, which resulted in so many arms and fighters flowing to ISIS and Al Qaeda, via Turkey and Jordan, with the support of Saudi Arabia, Israel and Qatar. in particular, the Pentagon members might not be happy about that record of CIA-supported Islamic terrorists attacking their Special Forces-supported Kurdish fighters, as reported in the LA Times:
In Syria, militias armed by the Pentagon fight those armed by the CIA
It doesn't get much more idiotic than that; the repercussions of full exposure of that CIA program would be devastating for the CIA and Obama's legacy. But if they can claim it's all a Putin Russia game? An act of desperation is what it looks like, to hide jaw-dropping levels of stupidty, incompetence, and short-sighted behavior - the kind of thing that's characterized every U.S. regime-change program of the 21st century.

The alliance that backed Hillary Clinton also wants to keep control of the Democratic Party, and their "Putin did it" excuse for blocking Sanders supporters from taking power in the DNC has to be a factor in this, also.

But overall, I bet it ends up as an effort to sabotage the Trump Administration as much as possible before the transfer of power. For example, this Federal Reserve rate hike - it will be a cash cow for Wall Street bankers, but will hit middle-class Americans hard; it could be an effort to sabotage economic recovery which could then be blamed on Trump. So while the Obama/Clinton/CIA/neocon/media camp might be pursuing a fantasy of blocking Trump from taking office, failing that they'll try to burn the house down. One of their more reckless actions in that regard might be the transfer of MANPADs, shoulder-launched anti-aircraft weapons, to Syrian terrorist groups, who might later use them to attack American civilian aircraft. Spreading chaos on their way out the door, is what it looks like. Not rational, not responsible, certainly not in the American people's best interest.

Posted by: nonsensefactory | Dec 16 2016 4:24 utc | 101

@99

Right, and you're the authority on truth? Not.

I was trying to make the thread easier for others who are affected by the widening of the window with links that go on forever. It's a courtesy to inform; as opposed to your abject, uncalled-for rudeness.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 4:29 utc | 102

@97 stumpy, 'Whether Russia made Trump the winner is a toss-up to me. I thought Comey's last minute cautionary letter was really what tipped the scale.'

i don't think it was either of those media stunts. i certainly don't think russia had anything to do with it. i think trump voters were lined up months in advance, waiting to stick it to the obama/clinton party. noirette followed it closely and forecast trump's win to us months in advance of either of those stunts.

i think it was the straightforward revulsion with the obama/clinton party ... the only sure-kill alternative was trump. and trump made sure that he was seen, at least, as the opposite of the obama/clinton party.

look at the map again ... the northeast and west coast were blue, the entire heartland - where industry used to be - was red, except for wisconsin/illinois, colorado/new mexico. the people just threw the obama/clinton party out. some people identified with the trump spiel, but most voted against obama/clinton. no emails, no russians entered the equation, other than to confirm peoples' convictions that they didn't want any more of the obama/clinton party.

the obama/clinton party - its backers who are afraid to lose their surefire demon in russia - is refusing to accept the reality of their defeat. they are only ensuring the termination of their political power. people hate those who cannot learn to lose. especially those they hated already. i feel sure they'll hate trump, too, before too long ... but they won't be looking to the obama/clinton/dnc for an alternative when they do.

i hope that trump does clean house when this is over. kill the cia. kill the nsa. his kind of politics doesn't require either one of them, and they will always be a threat, snakes in the grass waiting to strike.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 16 2016 4:31 utc | 103

lysias@61

Interesting.

I was going to raise the question why such emphasis on the emails. To me the more compelling problem with Clinton's electability was the Clinton Foundation revelations. I have been thinking that maybe all the palaver about the Russians was an attempt to divert attention away from the Foundation chicanery - a desperate attempt to make the emails incident seem more important. I hardly think many in the electorate would have read the emails or know what that was about, and I don't really believe that was a decisive factor for voters in general.

The suggestion of an electoral college coup may simply be an orchestration in full court press mode in order to delay the inevitable. I don't think it would be tit for tat that ongoing Foundation investigation is now revealed, though it may strongly tamp down electoral college propensity to renege. To me the Foundation's doings have more meat on the bone - with no Putin involvement issues to cloud the matter.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 16 2016 4:32 utc | 104

Sorry ben 299, I thought you meant me and I agree that 84 has trouble with facts.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 4:36 utc | 105

oh, and if Obama promising "response" or "retaliation" is giving you deja vu ....
he promised cyber-retribution back in October ...
independent.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Dec 16 2016 4:40 utc | 106

10

Illuminati have to rely on code words to communicate with each other. "bill-gates-trump-resembles-jfk-in-his-ability-to-innovate" is simply stating that someone in the CIA needs to innovate a solution to make trump resemble jfk, e.g. dead. The CIA agent will leave a pristine bullet or a pristine passport by the body , as is their scent mark, and probably how they collect their payment.

Four buildings with two planes, baby!!

91

"US capitalism hasn't really been dominant since FDR was elected in 1932" ... except for the Dec 1982–July 1990 capitalist boom around the microchip, increasing employment by 23.7%; followed immediately by the Mar 1991–Mar 2001 capitalist boom of the NAFTA and Dot.Con era, increasing employment by 22.5%; after which financial manipulation began to dominate the US economy in the 'recovery' from the artificial capitalist synthetic collateral debt obligation gambling and insurance scam.

That tells you why your reference book was forgotten. History is unkind to losers. There is no rift between capitalism and 'imperialism', your book is phony Mao think-speak. US has acquired no new colonies, only used false-flags and psyop to generate more massive profits for capitalists by banging the drums of war. There is only One Party of Mil.Gov, it's neither Red nor Blue, and it can't be terminated, they are all vested One Party Union non-appointed employees in service to imperial-capitalism.

84, 93

Trump has given over US finances to Goldmanim and the war machine to the Generals, who represent the war profiteers. He has publicly stated he will increase US credit-debt for infrastructure privatization, the Goldman-NeoLiberal wet dream, and he has publicly stated he will increase US Defense budget and renew sanctions on Iran, which is lead to another arms increase, (**like Obama's 'Pivot to Asia', where 60% Atlantic:40% Pacific becomes 40% Atlantic:60% Pacific, however no redeployments are permanent and no Atlantic bases are closing, so you are left with 60% Atlantic:90% Pacific to achieve the pivot ratio, or a 150% increase in weapons production**). All Trump has done it this regard is to jab the subcontractors like Boeing and Lockheed, the same as he ran his R/E operations, which will send many cases of smoked provolone hiding bundles of shrink-wrapped $100s to Ivanka's house, and make him look like Mr. Law and Order. He's not. He's Mr. Establishment. AFA 'Russia hackers' there is only One Party of Mil.Gov, but only enough booze for half of those appointed and elected drones, so of course it's going to get sloppy as Red becomes the new Blue. It serves to mask his flagrant turnover of US finances to the Goldmanim, and turnover of defense (sic) to the war profiteers, as if the already $20 TRILLION in debt and 150% increase in arms production is not bad enough.

--

They're playing us just like WWE Raw, getting everyone 'energized' to stress-position and water-board each other with the Red and Blue Koolaid, it sells newspapers, creates more Mil.Gov jobs, and gets Federal programs funded, so when the Sherif kicks in your door on April 15th, you'll cough up your share of their demand for $3,400,000,000,000 $4,200,000,000,000 moar.


Posted by: chipnik | Dec 16 2016 4:52 utc | 107

correction ben @99, again sorry for confusion.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 4:54 utc | 108

Of course the American Deep State is nervous and unsatisfied. But they are not yet suicidal maniacs. They would not directly interfere with the people's choice in such obvious manner. They would only try to undermine the President after he has been sworn in. All the hacking nonsense is just testing the water to see how gullible the people remain. Trump knows this and they know that he knows.

Posted by: Steve | Dec 16 2016 5:25 utc | 110

i can't see the Electoral College denying the election to Trump. The antics of die-hard Clinton supporters have given sore-loserism a good name. If the Electoral College took the victory away from Trump, the Clinton supporters would have no moral high ground from which to deplore the sore-loser reaction on the part of Trump enthusiasts which would be certain to follow. Clinton supporters know this and I expect they will lose their nerve on the last minute.
Besides, reversing the vote at the Electoral College level is too overt and open a tactic for this group of adroit and secretive operators. The Jill Stein recount better typifies their modus operandi.

Posted by: Roger Milbrandt | Dec 16 2016 5:25 utc | 111

@jfl #103:

The first Comey letter may have played a role, given how slim the margins were in the three states that Jill Stein tried to get recounted. One can see that the Comey letter had an effect at the time, from the LA Times tracking poll. The media were going at full throttle about Trump's remark about grabbing vulvas when the Comey letter came out, so it created another narrative. It was definitely well timed to benefit Trump. I was a bit worried there for a while until the letter came out.

i hope that trump does clean house when this is over. kill the cia. kill the nsa.

I very much doubt that Trump is going to try to kill either. What I believe he will accomplish at a minimum is depoliticize the CIA. And there has been talk about him undoing the Bush/Obama restructuring of the intelligence agencies. Eliminate the Director of Intelligence position (forget the exact name) that all agencies report to. Colonel Lang wrote about how now in the CIA, everything is under operations, including intelligence gathering and analysis. That means that intelligence that the CIA reports is biased in order to make covert ops that the CIA is conducting look good. That should be fixed.

The post-9/11 activities of the NSA should be shut down, but Trump never talked about that. Who knows what he and his generals think about it. Once one has gotten used to the idea that we have no privacy, it is hard not to see the CIA as a much bigger problem than the NSA. Email can be encrypted if you really care about privacy.

Now, abolishing the DEA and DHS would be very nice, and more politically feasible. But again, Trump never talked about that.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 5:36 utc | 112


Tuesday, December 13, 2016

Officially, Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes. But a record 75,335 votes were never counted. Most of these votes that went missing were in Detroit and Flint.

How do you disappear 75,335 votes? I flew to Michigan to investigate.

Thousands of bubbles filled in next to the candidate's name couldn’t be read by the optical scanning machines in Michigan and Wisconsin but a much better machine, the human eyeball, can easily read what the voter intended.

In Trumpville, rural Michigan, their hero, Bill Schuette, the Republican attorney general of Michigan shut down the recount. Schuette issued an order saying that no one would be allowed to look at the ballots in over half the precincts, 59%, in the Detroit area—the very place that most of the votes had gone missing.

Back in Detroit, some of the votes missing resulted when 87 machines, responsible for counting thousands of ballots, broke down. We went to speak with the secretary of state, whose spokesman said the missing votes in Detroit were simply people who waited in line but didn’t want to vote for president.

And so the recount slogged through, uncovering missing votes and missing voters that could change the presidency. So Republicans rushed in to shut down the recount completely. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, here in Michigan—we may be way north of the Mason-Dixon Line, but the elections are still run by Jim Crow. For Democracy Now!, this is Greg Palast.
http://www.gregpalast.com/palast-report-democracy-nowby-rejecting-recount-michigan-covering-75000-ballots-never-counted/#more-13022

How many times did Trump tell us that the leaks was like "WaterGate", it is interresting that only Democrat emails were hacked into.
The Repubs broke into the Dems emails this time instead of breaking into their headquarters.
Trump will be our Pres, No Jail for the Hill, the Swamp is being filled, the wall he builds will be around the swamp that he is over flowing so no one will be able to drain the swamp one must be blind not to see it.
Those of you that think Trump is going to "make america great again" just keep on dreamin wonderland is right around the corner.

Posted by: Rodger | Dec 16 2016 5:43 utc | 113

Overturning Trump's election would be the ideal result for those wishing to upset the establishment. His supporters are well armed and the tree of liberty will be irrigated. If allowed to take the Presidency, Trump will simply turn the establishment in a more productive direction, my preferred result. They've gone off the rails since the Cold War ended.

Posted by: jinx | Dec 16 2016 5:43 utc | 114

This certainly sums up all of the above ... doncha know?

"Aristotle thought that the brain exists merely to cool blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons.

- Will Cuppy, Humorist"

Certainly certain - myself included.

Posted by: rg the lg | Dec 16 2016 6:00 utc | 115

Yes, MSM's propaganda phrase "hacking the election" is one o their tools. As I have been pointing out, NO ONE "hacked the election." What happened is someone either hacked OR leaked emails form the DNC and Podesta which revealed the dirty scheming of the Hillary campaign. Anyone twisting THAT actions in "hacking the election" is spreading manipulative propaganda.
https://twitter.com/RepPress/status/809635843619090432
https://twitter.com/RepPress/status/809635066062245889

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Dec 16 2016 6:02 utc | 116

Definitely -- this is manipulative propaganda ... a meme du jour (most likely) tempest in a tea pot ... I check Google news and CNN front page to see "how much coverage" is it getting at those two sites and I'm not seeing much coverage. The NYT is two-steps forward and one-step back, guardian seems to be all-in.
Politico says that Hillary Clinton's big donors "want answers" -- how do you spend a billion dollars and lose? and -- not apparently related -- she was reportedly at a big-donor thank you confab this evening and blamed Putin ... and crowed about being "tough on putin" ...
I can't figure who the audience is for this conspiracy theory (either of them -- either the one that says Trump and Putin conspired; or the one that says that Clinton and the CIA are attempting to delegitimize Trump with an eye on mobilizing Congress).
The NYT this morning said the Democrats intend to keep the Trump White House mired in lawsuits (I guess investigations are out since they control neither house of congress) ...

I've been wondering if this is some sort of "performative" demonstration with selfies so these folks can prove how much they opposed Trump in 4 or 8 years time .... remembering the Road to Gulf War II, this is a good time to start your anti-trump activism scrap book... but so far what's lacking is the grandstanding beyond the usual grandstanders.

The battle for control of the Democratic Party plays a part ... and so this is or will likely be a "which side are you on" faux litmus test -- only, no one is allowed to say this is foolishness.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Dec 16 2016 6:22 utc | 117

My piece now is "obama confirmed"

https://twitter.com/DavidYankovich/status/809558262362292224


David Yankovich @DavidYankovich

CNN is reporting that Trump's refusal to acknowledge Russia interference has made White House decide orderly transition isn't main priority

Read again: "White House decide orderly transition isn't main priority"

Translation: "Let's have the coup ..."

Posted by: b | Dec 16 2016 6:43 utc | 118

Concentration of wealth leads naturally to concentration of power, which in turn translates to legislation favoring the interests of the rich and powerful and thereby increasing even further the concentration of power and wealth. Various political measures, such as fiscal policy, deregulation, and rules for corporate governance are designed to increase the concentration of wealth and power. And that's what we've been seeing during the neoliberal era. It is a vicious cycle in constant progress. The state is there to provide security and support to the interests of the privileged and powerful sectors in society while the rest of the population is left to experience the brutal reality of capitalism. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/38682-socialism-for-the-rich-capitalism-for-the-poor-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky

A richer man in office means more welfare for the Corporations and the rich and double down capitalism for the rest of us. Remember he told us that he has used loop holes in our system to help enrich himself and now he is going to show his buds how to do the same while the rest of us follow the rules. Making america great again....

Posted by: Rodger | Dec 16 2016 7:06 utc | 119

@118

Well, if this is the way the cards are going to be dealt, Obama should waste no time in issuing himself a pardon. The coward is not going to walk the tightrope without a net, is he?

So it's the anti-Russian catechism or no deal? They would have to be mad.

Posted by: Copeland | Dec 16 2016 7:15 utc | 120

Trump is not going to lose in the electoral college. The current hysteria over Putin did it has simpler explanations. First Trump's victory seriously shocked and rattled Hillary's base liberal Democratic supporters. Their reaction is consistent with simple hysteria interfering with their reasoning ability. Second, the DNC and Democratic congressional leadership really really blundered and it they who should be blamed. They are seeking scapegoats. Third, this issue can be used against Trump to discredit his authority and weaken his ability to lead. Both Democrats and neocons in the Republican Party must be terrified that Trump will make peace with Russia. This factor can explain the CIA's involvement in this project.

Posted by: ToivoS | Dec 16 2016 7:22 utc | 121

Oil is the blood of civilization. Looking back one or two centuries, possibly more, the USA has rarely if ever denied the exploitation of energy the political capital to thrive. It's been pretty well buried, but some of the bar dwellers might remember the National Geographic cover of a Saudi holding a beer pitcher full of crude in a desert oilfield. Same dwellers might also recall the crap that spun in and out of the Arab Oil embargo, and probably recount it better that I can. My point being that Tillerson has his hand on the real power here, the oil industry which if kicked hard enough would cause a massive infarct in the chest of the western hemisphere. Trump picked wisely here. Nobody's gonna f with oil. So, interesting timing on OPEC coming around to quotas, a real gift to the Canadian tarbabies and pipeline mongers. So, via her foundations and DOS missions was Clinton collecting tribute, or was it a shakedown in exchange for favoring Arab hegemony and greasing the skids for the US and Brit weapons makers? Pretty well-orchestrated enterprise. Maybe Russia in on the deal, maybe not? But the SOS lineage might actually be pulled up from the rathole the Clinton/Kerry so avidly dug for themselves. Get in line, congresscritters, we're back in black.

Posted by: stumpy | Dec 16 2016 7:25 utc | 122

Now we know that when Trump said he was going to drain the swamp, it was so that he could make it easier so they could get all the creepy-crawly things and give them the most prominent position in his new administration. So as a white collar criminologist, I'll say that this is going to be the most criminogenic environment since the days of Harding. And white collar crime and scandal and corruption is just going to have a field day. But it's not going to be a day, it's going to be a minimum of four years.

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:17920:Former-Financial-Regulator%3A-White-Collar-Crime-Will-Have-a-Field-Day-Under-Trump

making america great again

Posted by: Rodger | Dec 16 2016 7:26 utc | 123

As Grieved | Dec 15, 2016 10:04:36 PM @ #96 points out, Trump's campaign was much more skillfully and logically organised than Hillary's. He also worked harder and put in more personal appearances, in front of more, and bigger crowds, and left far less to happenstance than Hillary did during her comparatively leisurely part-time stroll towards assumed victory. The hands-on energy Trump devoted to his campaign, alone, makes him a far more inspiring leadership candidate than Princess Hillary.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 16 2016 7:32 utc | 124

l signs point to leaking, not hacking. If hacking were involved, the National Security Agency would know it – and know both sender and recipient.

In short, since leaking requires physically removing data – on a thumb drive, for example – the only way such data can be copied and removed, with no electronic trace of what has left the server, is via a physical storage device

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/12/us-intel-vets-dispute-russia-hacking-claims/

Watergate?

Posted by: Rodger | Dec 16 2016 7:48 utc | 125

With regard to the future leadership of the Democratic party, the Clinton wing can lay blame at the feet of the non-clinton wing (in the person of Barack Obama, who was Teddy Kennedy's anyone-but-Clinton nominee) for failing to act more .... blah blah blah
... or at least they will be able (given Obama's mea culpa) to apportion some part of that $1 billion dollar fiasco to him ...
Team Clinton may also be trying to "prove" that they are edgy and aggressive (thinking outside the box) and will "stand up for what they believe in" (a Clinton favorite -- to contrast with Obama the appeaser and Gore the "too easily" defeated) ...

Perhaps I'm being unkind, but I doubt it. This is more posturing for posterity by Team Clinton who are fighting aggressively to retain leadership status now and in the future. How much "The Clinton Foundation" at this point needs the Clinton duo having official influence on the Democratic Party and democratic candidates is also worth considering.

Now if they can just they can taint and discredit the Foundation investigation as 'partisan' ... because Comey doubts Putin's direct involvement and/or Trump ... something something .... Zero Hedge already has it ... Putin now controls the FBI .... I have no doubt Team Clinton are working on the roll out ... stay tuned.

A successful coup may be a fantasy ... but a coup of fantasy will remain an "If only ...." reason to deflect blame and continue the victimization narrative. Woulda, coulda, shoulda ...

(Ironicially, the media was too supportive of Clinton to credibly blame them, at least for a few months ... the vast fake-news "right-wing conspiracy" with a "Russian intervention" chaser will be this year's model.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Dec 16 2016 7:56 utc | 126

If it were a coup I would want to know what the sides were.

Isn't this a pissing match within the top 1%? This is high dollar-per-hour movie production going on but cheaper than war, right?

But wait, that's coming. What else does the 1% have but some delude definition of growth and war?

Today, for the 2nd time in less than a month, some financial "energy" dumped another10 Billion onto the gold market to bring the price down by another $30-40/oz. Anyone of us pond scum know anyone who has a few tens of Billions in gold they move around like pawns in their game of life?

I will buy a coup b, when the military comes on the media of the day and says that all banking has been nationalized and private banking will no longer be allowed. Unless and until then its all for show for the masses behind the myth of economics.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 16 2016 8:00 utc | 127


Comey to Trump: The Russians Didn't Influence the Election

Comey told Trump that James Clapper, the director of National Intelligence, agreed with this FBI assessment.

The only member of the U.S. intelligence community who was ready to assert that the Russians sanctioned the hacking was John Brennan, the director of the CIA, according to sources who were briefed on Comey’s conversations with Trump.

Posted by: b | Dec 16 2016 8:03 utc | 128

Can we all please remember that the choice was between cancer and the plague! None of this is good. There is only one way out of the stranglehold that the deep state has on America...revolution; that's the message Rand Paul and Sanders tried to deliver. Nothing is going to change until people fight back this corruption. U.S. industry revolves around perpetual war and financial tyranny. Do any of you really believe that with either party and whatever puppet President the ruling cabal choose anything good will come out of it? Do you really believe they're going to surrender their industry of military and financial tyranny that benefits the top 1% and enslaves the rest?

Only ordinary, working people have the power to change all this and my feeling is that Americans have been brainwashed for so long they don't know which side is up and which side is down anymore; so this situation still needs to get worse because Americans still haven't touched bottom to see how duped they are and how corrupted their democracy is.

Maybe the Empire is not in decline yet because it's still unfortunately the most powerful military hegemon on the planet with bases all around the globe and the most powerful financial tyrant, but it's definitely in decay. This election is proof of that; it's exposing the rot.

Look at the destruction the Anglo/Zionist hegemon has inflicted on the Middle East, the millions who were either killed or dispossessed by the evil PNAC PLAN. But the worse is yet to come because now Russia with NATO on its borders, China and Iran threatened every second day are in the crosshairs of this hegemon and that spells disaster for the entire planet.

This insanity cannot go on; the Zionist Neocon global police is the global war criminal leading global destruction.

If anything, this hacking issue will expose the worst on both sides, remind us that we all deserve better than a choice between cancer and the plague, because America is ready for a non-interventionist third party that is totally removed from Zionist/Neocon ideology and that understands the concept of global balance. That's not going to happen without a fight; without a revolution to oust Zionist Neoconservatism from Washington.

One is cancer; the other is the plague. Let go already. Trump is not the savior come to rescue the world from Neoconservatism; you're wrong. He's the same and worse. It's time to think of another strategy; think beyond the two-party monopoly where Zionist influence corruption is deep on both sides; that's the only way out of this. Trump and Hillary are two sides of the same coin.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 8:19 utc | 129

In a shock interview with the Daily Mail former British ambassador Craig Murray says that he was given the DNC and Podesta leaks in a clandestine meeting in Washington DC, and it was through him that they were passed on to WikiLeaks.
http://theduran.com/breaking-clinton-leaks-given-craig-murray-washington-insider-clandestine-meeting-former-british-ambassador-claims/

Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 16 2016 8:26 utc | 130

@Peter AU #130:

Not quite sure what to make of that, since Murray said that the clandestine meeting took place in September, whereas the DNC emails were released by Wikileaks at the time of the Dem convention, which was in August.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 8:35 utc | 131

War it will be and it will be with Iran. False intel provided by Israel as was for Iraq, Bibi is salavating war with Iran and more illegal settlements in Palestine. Trump,Adelson, and Bibi are buddy buddy.

http://fortune.com/2016/09/20/donald-trump-donation/

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/08/trump-and-his-iran-haters/

making america great again

Posted by: Rodger | Dec 16 2016 8:38 utc | 132

I shall have to take up a yank custom and acquire some popcorn for this show.
Who will act the part of moderate rebels? Also auditioning for white helmets, rebel officials, victims of barrel bombings, activists, 'independent' journalists and all the other necessary actors for a totally fucked up war.

Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 16 2016 8:40 utc | 133

thanks b, and for the updates..

i was driving home tonight after my gig and it is around midnight so i turn on cbc radio and they are quoting something obama said on npr about it being bad if russia indeed swayed the election for a trump win... i guess russia really ought to do what the usa does and just go for regime change instead with a full blown war to get it rolling!!! obama was ranting about russia being one of the top 3 threats on the globe, after isis and iran as i recall - only maybe 2 or 3 years ago.. i nearly feel out of my chair when i heard that.. oh, but i get it.. ramp up the war drums on russia, even if that undemocratic country to the south of me is entertaining a switcheroo in the person who goes into the black house on jan. 20th..

either way one looks it all this, it is kind of surreal.. hillary during all of her campaign was doing something similar castigating russia and wanting to put trump in bed with putin... i thought the usa couldn't get any more fucked up then it already is, but i was wrong.. i feel like i am living in some crazy fantasy and anything is possible here with a lot of things...

i wonder when britian and the european poodles jump in and start singing the same chorus as these democractic rejects? how long before that happens? oh, and the fact the cbc here in canada is being the nice echo chamber for that piece of crap media outlet npr, i guess it is only a matter of time before australia's public broadcasting outlets will follow along as well... what a hopeless sack of shit all these 'national' media outlets are, but not as bad as obama and hillary for being the shills for the financial/military complex that is bound and determined to destroy the planet to have their way.. sickening where we are at..

thanks for the comments many of you..

my guess is trump still gets in, but as i said before - it looks bad for him if he departs from the script that has been written in stone for such a long time - war, war and more war.. war=money and frankly, trump is as much of an 'elite' as all the rest of them.. what a sad scenario here..

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2016 8:56 utc | 134

Jesus. All this red scare Dread Russians crap over some damn emails. You'd think that someone had gotten the nuclear codes or shut down the electric grid. I can't believe the hype over this trivia. World War 3 because of the DNC email system? The people in charge and the media are completely nuts.

Posted by: teri | Dec 16 2016 8:57 utc | 135

b, 'The institutional Trump enemies are:

'The neoconservatives and Likudniks who want the U.S. as Israel's weapon to strong arm the Middle East to the Zionists' benefit.'

Trump nominates hardline Zionist as US ambassador to Israel


US President-elect Donald Trump has nominated David Friedman, a hardline Zionist, as US ambassador to Israel, likely paving the way toward a controversial decision to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem al-Quds

Friedman, a fervent supporter of illegal Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine and opponent of the so-called two-state solution, served as one of Trump’s main advisers on Israel during his presidential campaign.

"(Friedman) has been a long-time friend and trusted adviser to me. His strong relationships in Israel will form the foundation of his diplomatic mission and be a tremendous asset to our country as we strengthen the ties with our allies and strive for peace in the Middle East," Trump said in a statement Thursday.

Friedman said he looked forward to filling the diplomatic position at a future US embassy in Jerusalem al-Quds, a move that would distance Washington from most of the international community, including its closest allies in Western Europe and the Arab world.


trump grew up in, made his fortune in, the new york business world. he is owned. he is a creature of the zionists. just as was clinton.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 16 2016 9:06 utc | 136

re #130
I trust Craig Murray but. . . the daily mail is one of worst examples of a bottom feeding racist scum targeted fake news purveyor to ever splash ink on paper. I'm gonna hold off judgement on the DC dead drop until Murray confirms it himself either via youtube or his own website

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 16 2016 9:27 utc | 137

Murray didn't confirm all the dailymail details but he sure already said that he met with the american leaker, both in the guardian & on his blog

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/cias-absence-conviction/
“I know who leaked them,” Murray said. “I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak,


Posted by: ratatat | Dec 16 2016 9:55 utc | 138

Trump vows to create safety zones in Syria at the expense of arab monarchies

The gulf dictatorships are already bankrolling the war against Syria, so this wouldn't change the equation. I'd think they'd be perfectly fine forking over more money if it means imposing that no-fly zone (I'm guessing that's what 'safety zone' implies) they've desperately been after.

Guess a Trump administration wouldn't act any less reckless in the ME, than a Clinton one, after all.

Posted by: never mind | Dec 16 2016 10:10 utc | 139

@138 ratty

the Mail reports that Murray met an intermediary - not the actual leaker - in 'the woods' by american university in ac/dc. murray says that the leaker had legal access to them - clinton's emails. i wonder if this can be the clinton guy who was murdered in ac/dc just after the leaks?

as well Murray is careful to say that what he knows about is the emails published by wikileaks. knows nothing about the russians.

but he points out that clinton and bezos' blogs contact at the cia both said that wikileaks published clinton emails given them by the russians, and that that is simply false. and the cia, at least, knows that's false.

if the leaker were the former clinton employee that would explain Murray's willingness to come forward with this information. the cia/dnc cannot kill a dead man - although they may have killed him when he was alive.

if the leak is traced back to - Seth Rich was his name - and Rich's murder is pinned on the clinton/cia/dnc machine ... what were they thinking to have opened up this can of worms? maybe bezos' blog's cia contact wasn't really cia? but now he's finally given someone - like tee-rump - the ammunition to eliminate that blight on america and the world these past 69 years: the cia?

this, of course, is all pure speculation. tinfoil-hat stuff. although i think that's apparent, i'm no paveway iv. no one's likely to make my story-telling into real fakenews.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 16 2016 10:18 utc | 140

Quite confused did the 'us' did or didn't had an election?,supposedly than the 'we came we saw he died' lady' conceded the race to be POTUS which if she had mena woulda be more terrorized beg your pardon ,mean to say moderated 'democratically'?..so whats happening?in the land of the 'free and brave'?
Asking cos doesn't matter who you are and where you live in this globe 'THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD' matters!once asked how many factions there are in the 'us'...definitely not two?..one for the 'moderating' lady and the other for a rich 'joker' or spoiler in the card!...dang i live in interesting time:-)

Posted by: Nur Adlina | Dec 16 2016 10:18 utc | 141

@139 nm

from your link


“I will get the Gulf States to give us lots of money and we will build and help build safe zones in Syria,” he said.

safe zones for salafists. here comes the tee-rump double cross. meet the new boss. same as the old boss. not a thin dime's worth of difference. the other face of the same coin.

if we want things to change in the usa we're just going to have to do it ourselves. no hope will ever come from among the oligarchs.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 16 2016 11:31 utc | 142

Egypt blames Qatar's protection of the MB and MB role in the recent church bombing in Cairo
After two tourist planes bombed and tourism in a standstill, Egypt has no patience towards GCC retaining intelligence they might possess on these gangs
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/253197/World/Region/Gulf-Cooperation-Council-rejects-linking-Qatar-to-.aspx

Posted by: Mina | Dec 16 2016 11:43 utc | 143

It's all a devious Putin plot for a US color revolution.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 16 2016 12:38 utc | 144

The US Election situation is quite simple.

1. Clinton & Co are the best US government 2017+ option that BIG money can buy.

2. Trump & Co are the best US government 2017+ option that BIG money can't buy.

Choose your weevils carefully...

Posted by: x | Dec 16 2016 13:14 utc | 145

Elites in the US or maybe rather cabals pretending to be elite are very scared now. Scared and mad.

btw
CNN, BBC, Fox News, The NYT, The WaPa, The Guardian, CNBS, NBC and so on = establishment media / establishment news. Those media outlets are also very friendly towards Jewish diaspora and Israel. Russian propaganda bad. Jewish propaganda and influences good? Bunch of pathetic hypocrites who have lost touch with reality.

Posted by: green sea | Dec 16 2016 13:22 utc | 146

@132 -- Re: "War it will be and it will be with Iran. False intel provided by Israel as was for Iraq, Bibi is salavating war with Iran and more illegal settlements in Palestine. Trump,Adelson, and Bibi are buddy buddy."

Not if Putin and his Chechen elite guard (correction, I mean 'police') end up sweeping the criminal garbage out of Syria (and protecting the State's infrastructure and economic rebuilding project) and replacing the UN Peace programme in the Syrian (repeat, Syrian) Golan Heights -- including some S400's to protect 'peace' in the region. Nothing military will fly East, or West, between Iran and the apartheid state of occupied Palestine without the 'tick' from Moscow. Scenario time horizon: 18 months +/- 6 months. Probability: 0.75

Posted by: x | Dec 16 2016 13:26 utc | 147

Posted by: b | Dec 16, 2016 1:43:25 AM | 118

Just means that they have given up influencing Trump via the transition.

It is clear that he will not toe the CIA line.

But US government unable to act because of internal division clearly is in the interest of many people.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 16 2016 14:30 utc | 148

It is getting fun actually.

"Mr. Trump has said privately in recent days that he believes there are people in the C.I.A. who are out to get him and are working to delegitimize his presidency, according to people briefed on the conversations who described them on the condition of anonymity.

The president-elect’s suspicions have been stoked by the efforts of a group of Democratic electors, as well as one Republican, who called this week for an intelligence briefing on the Russian hacking, raising the prospect that votes in the Electoral College might be changed.

In his Twitter posting on Thursday, Mr. Trump suggested that the government’s conclusions on Russian hacking were a case of sour grapes by Mr. Obama. The president-elect falsely stated that Mr. Obama had waited until after the election to raise the issue."

Posted by: somebody | Dec 16 2016 14:38 utc | 149

i hope that trump does clean house when this is over. kill the cia. kill the nsa. his kind of politics doesn't require either one of them, and they will always be a threat, snakes in the grass waiting to strike.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 15, 2016 11:31:14 PM | 103

Not a bad dream, but, your thoughts are only that. The corporate coup will achieve it's goals. Corporate control of the U$ govt. That, would have been achieved with HRC or not.

Enjoy the Kabuki, because what's going on now, is just that. It's now, business uber alles. What's good for the American people and the world, will be secondary. Russia will benefit in the short term, and that's a good thing, but the others in the world, probably not.

The corporate raiders are coming for ALL of you. It's only a matter of time. The new feudalism is in it's acendancy.

Workers of the world, lube up, and bend over.

Posted by: ben | Dec 16 2016 15:30 utc | 150

Note...to all fact checkers..afaik my opinion below might be based on fake news and this site might also be a fake site..

My opinion...is team chaos going into panic mode dangerous to 'americans' or 'non american'..the jury is out as the damage done has been enormous!like said earlier what happens to team chaos is humanity's concern.it is global.

Post note..to all fact checkers..see the heading:-)

Posted by: Nur Adlina | Dec 16 2016 15:44 utc | 151

A bit off topic, but its what's behind the state of politics in the US......its utterly obvious....but

"You need to remember the names Chuck Schumer, Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Steve Israel. These are all blood-pouring-from-the-fangs Zionists, and, not coincidentally, recently in charge of the people who run as Democrats in national American politics. They have consistently picked extreme right-wing candidates to run, so right-wing that they are not acceptable to most Democrat voters. If these ridiculous candidates win, they vote as 'blue dogs', mostly with the Republicans. If they lose, which recently has been the trend, a Republican is elected. The Zionists don't care. Their only criterion of electoral success is if a hard-line Zionist ends up elected. The result of years of this treason has been the apotheosis of the Republican Party, and too many Wars For The Jews to count, with the accompanying impoverishment of the country."

XYMPHORA

Posted by: notlurking | Dec 16 2016 15:51 utc | 152

@ "Trump team can't be bought.."

Seriously? LOL dude!

Hide and watch please.

Posted by: ben | Dec 16 2016 15:55 utc | 153

Obama is Digging an anti-Russia Hole for Donald Trump

Politics as it is by all definitions, the out-going US president’s certain decisions are pointing to the anti-Russia hole he appears to be digging for the president-elect Donald Trump. With the implicit purpose of forcing the ‘politically inexperienced’ president elect into his footsteps, Obama’s last days politics may leave profound implications at both domestic and international levels. Whereas, domestically these decisions are likely to fan out what some call ‘Russophobia’, internationally this ‘Russophobia’ might complicate US-Russia relations—something that was very much expected under a Clinton presidency—and put resolution of the outstanding crisis on the backburner. To say the least, Obama’s last days political behaviour does certainly not qualify as the one defined as a ‘lame duck’ president, traditionally least expected of leaving a troubled legacy. However, the Obama presidency appears to be willing to go to all lengths to undo this tradition and make the life of the next president as difficult as possible.

http://journal-neo.org/2016/12/16/obama-is-digging-an-anti-russia-hole-for-donald-trump/

Posted by: Les | Dec 16 2016 16:09 utc | 154

"President-elect Donald Trump will nominate bankruptcy attorney David Friedman as U.S. ambassador to Israel and Friedman said he looked forward to taking up his post in Jerusalem, a step that would reverse decades of U.S. foreign policy and spark rancor in the Muslim world."

I'm sure the Israel war mongers love to hear that piece of news. More bad news for the Palestinians.

Posted by: ben | Dec 16 2016 16:14 utc | 155

Wapo;In a little bolded headline;US public not swayed by Russian horseshite and back Trump.
His appointment of Friedman;Name one ambassador to Israel not zionist influenced or not a zionist?A little sop to his torturers?
My biggest hope is he forces those bastards to make a deal,and if it includes zionist W.Jerusalem,so be it,as I can't see the monsters ever giving up their wailing wall again.
The Palestinians are at their lowest point in 70 years,wo one strong ally on their side.
Another product of radical Islams headchoppers who seem to be working for USzion.

Posted by: dahoit | Dec 16 2016 16:20 utc | 156

craig murray says
Reply ↓
craig Post author
December 14, 2016 at 22:16

Yes – I did not tell the Mail I was the guy who carried the emails back though. I think they were already with WikiLeaks before I went to Washington. Interestingly I also did not say it was an intermediary – I said I did not know if I knew the person’s real identity or they were operating under an alias, or if they were themselves the principal.

Reply ↓
CanSpeccy
December 15, 2016 at 01:14

This is fascinating stuff. But confusing. The Daily Mail reports:

“A Wikileaks envoy today claims he personally received Clinton campaign emails in Washington D.C. after they were leaked by ‘disgusted’ whisteblowers – and not hacked by Russia.

Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and a close associate of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, told Dailymail.com that he flew to Washington, D.C. for a clandestine hand-off with one of the email sources in September.”

Whereas, you say:

“I did not tell the Mail I was the guy who carried the emails back though. I think they were already with WikiLeaks before I went to Washington.”

Does this mean that you did not “personally received Clinton campaign emails in Washington D.C.”, or simply that whatever you received was already in the hands of Wikileaks?

If you did not receive Clinton campaign emails in Washington D.C., are you able to state the reason for the meeting in Washington, D.C., in what the Daily Mail describes as a wooded are near American University for the purpose of “a clandestine hand-off”?

Or if you did receive Clinton campaign emails during the meeting described by the Daily Mail, even though these emails were already in the hands of Wikileaks, can you reveal what purpose was served by this meeting?
Reply ↓
craig Post author
December 15, 2016 at 01:24

I didn’t receive the emails full stop. The purpose of the meeting was mundane. Its only interest is that as a result I can tell you it wasn’t the Russians.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/russian-bear-uses-keyboard/comment-page-1/#comments

Posted by: mauisurfer | Dec 16 2016 16:37 utc | 157

I was reading a piece that mentioned the Hatch Act and doing some research I came across this

"The language was crafted so that the Secretary of State is covered by the Act's restrictions on political activity."

I believe that Hillary will be charged under the act. After President Berry leaves office.

We live in extremely interesting times we do.

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 16 2016 16:43 utc | 158

Seth Rich belonged to the Jewish wing of the DNC. He no doubt received Zionist indoctrination at the Synagogue his father, Joel, helped found in Omaha.

He no doubt was a Zionist; therefore an Israel firster. Zionist loyalty is to Israel first above all else, party, country of birth, and whatever gets in the way.

http://bethel-omaha.org/?s=joel+rich+israel

So, whatever happened, the candidate that Israel wanted more than anyone else (even if Zionists hedge both sides), Trump, is in power and he's already implementing the Zionist agenda that Likudniks have been praying for.

Everything in Trump's agenda is lining up with the Neocon Zionist agenda. Trump just appointed David Friedman, a rabid uber-Zionist, Ambassador to Israel. Expect the U.S. Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem and the biggest swindle against Palestinians to occur during Trump's Presidency, and the Iran deal to be torn up and worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/15/trump-israel-ambassador-david-friedman

So, if the leaks/hacking lead back to Israel; we'll never know because no one on either Zionist-occupied side of Congress will ever point the finger at Israel and Zionists are only too happy to have Putin take the fall after messing with Neocon Zionist plans for regime change in Syria.

It looks like a false flag and smells like a rat.

I've been telling you; there's no way out of Zionist/Neocon control except through revolution. Trump is all in and the Zionist fix is in as usual.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 16:45 utc | 159

The ‘coup’ will fail. The moves are last-ditch weak measures to keep “Dem” and other elites and hangers-on on board. The moves are sorta “automatically built in” - or at least appear not totally crazy to some of the public, say - in the US electoral system.

Too many avenues are pushed forward: Vote-rigging, thus re-counts (blah..) Russian hacking, manipulations, illegitimacy, etc.

This is a weak, lame, counter-coup, attempting to oppose the successfull coup, that of Trump. While being attacked on PizzaGate.

This section of the elites are terrified of the risk of sprawling civil war. (Might be easily repressed in some local spots, etc. but could get out of hand….)

Unrest and violence which can’t be hidden not only threaten but destroy their stranglehold of ‘soft power’ (MSM, divide to rule, social issues up the bazoo, control the narrative, rig the votes, organise in the back room, distract, obscure, LGTB, abortion, etc. but all is hunky dory in a 'great democracy'. ..) They will capitulate, back off, and try to save what can be. By making new deals, bowing down, thus loosing A LOT, but not *everything.*

Because the ‘World’ Power-Domination of the US is threatened by these internal rifts, and that is dangerous, unacceptable, to all. An internal power-sharing shift will take place, without too much ‘horrific’ schisms.

Trump will accept such a compromise. He will.

Watch it play out. Update one year on!

—didn’t read all the posts up top, no doubt some very good ones.

Posted by: Noirette | Dec 16 2016 16:46 utc | 160

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E?il=0
By Mark Hosenball and Jonathan Landay | WASHINGTON
The overseers of the U.S. intelligence community have not embraced a CIA assessment that Russian cyber attacks were aimed at helping Republican President-elect Donald Trump win the 2016 election, three American officials said on Monday.
~~~
The position of the ODNI, which oversees the 17 agency-strong U.S. intelligence community, could give Trump fresh ammunition to dispute the CIA assessment, which he rejected as "ridiculous" in weekend remarks, and press his assertion that no evidence implicates Russia in the cyber attacks.
Trump's rejection of the CIA's judgment marks the latest in a string of disputes over Russia's international conduct that have erupted between the president-elect and the intelligence community he will soon command.

Posted by: okie farmer | Dec 16 2016 16:56 utc | 161

Twitter is a marvelous tool. Two news items in short succession:

Sunflower Oil Prices in USD:

Russia 780
Spain 835
Italy 830
India 835
Turkey 825

Source: @athenatradewind

Italy blocked attempts to extend European Union sanctions on Russia by a year as well as broaden the sanctions to cover alleged crimes by Russia in Syria, EU members said.

"We had a discussion that luckily ended without considering the option -- which would have been wrong, I think -- to react to the situation in Syria and Aleppo with EU sanctions against Russia," Italian Prime Minister Paolo Gentiloni said after an EU summit in Brussels on December 15.

He said "a majority of countries" agreed with Italy that more sanctions on Russia, on top of those already imposed for Russia's aggression in Ukraine, would have been "a mistake."

======

Since antiquity, oil prices had a crucial impact on political events in Mediterranean. Olive oil, petroleum, safflower oil...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 16 2016 16:56 utc | 162

155

In the spirit of the season, and in tribute to the Sheeple,
here's an uplifting celebration for the Little People:

"Once there was a wicked witch in the lovely land of USArya
And a wickeder, wickeder, wickeder witch there never, never was
She filled the folks in Murikan land with terror and with dread
She celebrated the taking of many a Syrians' head
'Till one fine day from NYC way a cyclone caught a vote
That brought the wicked, wicked witch her doom
As she was flying on her broom
Cackling 'We came, we saw,
he died, haww, haww, haww'
For the vote fell on her head and the electors pronounced her dead
And thru the town the joyous news was spread:

Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch
Ding-dong, the wicked witch is dead
Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
Wake up, the wicked witch is dead!
She's gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch is dead

As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her. (urrrk)
And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead.
Then this is a day of Independence
For all the Murikins and their descendants
If any.
Yes, let the joyous news be spread
The wicked Old Witch at last is dead!

Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch
Ding-dong, the wicked witch is dead
Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
Wake up, the wicked witch is dead!
She's gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch is dead!

La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-a-a-a-a......

B-O-O-O-O-M!

(suddenly a plume of bright orange smoke marks the DC LZ,
as CIA-UN troops dressed as Russian paratroopers descend
on the inauguration ceremony and circling helicopter guns
ships, recamoflaged as Russian, fire down at anyone who
is not wearing a powder blue pimp hat in tribute to Big O)

Well, anyway, we delivered the Bomb!"

Posted by: chipnik | Dec 16 2016 17:04 utc | 163

Trump will accept such a compromise. He will.

Trump was compromised way before this. He was the preferred candidate the moment he made promises to Israel and Zionism that Hillary wouldn't commit to. Zionist Neocons swooped in and the rest is history. Trump will be President; Russia is still in the Empire's crosshairs, especially now with this false flag hack/leak and is part of the new Zionist Neocon axis of evil: Russia, China, Iran.

That's it; that's all; nothing more to see here.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 17:05 utc | 164

Thanks, Circe@102, much appreciated.

Posted by: spudski | Dec 16 2016 17:24 utc | 165

Whoever upthread considers that Trump is the Zionist candidate should also consider this:

IDF concerned Trump administration may cut US security aid to Israel

As the Middle East continues to roil from bloody conflicts, a senior IDF officer told reporters on Wednesday that the military is concerned that the Trump administration will cut Israel’s security assistance budget.

According to the senior officer speaking to reporters in Tel Aviv, additional budget cuts by the Trump administration will further burden the Israeli defense budget, despite the 10-year, $38 billion Memorandum of Understanding recently signed between Jerusalem and Washington.


The estimate seems to be that Trump is big on symbolic gestures but will hold back the money. That may well be correct. Its his style of doing business.

Clinton was a very safe bet for the Zionists - there was no reason to support Trump.

Posted by: b | Dec 16 2016 17:37 utc | 166

GEORGE SOROS, BIG BANKS AND GOOGLE FUND ANTI-TRUMP RESISTANCE GROUP
http://www.govtslaves.com/george-soros-big-banks-and-google-fund-anti-trump-resistance-group/

Posted by: ALAN | Dec 16 2016 17:38 utc | 167

Dear Mr. Trump! http://www.splicetoday.com/writing/dear-mr-trump#.WFQGPIXFp7A.facebook

Posted by: ALAN | Dec 16 2016 17:48 utc | 168

Trump is crystal clear on Islam (it's dangerous).
Palestian Islam is no difference (it's dangerous).

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 16 2016 18:00 utc | 169

Sorry, has to be: "Palestinian Islam"
"93% of Palestinians are Muslim,[227] the vast majority of whom are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Religion

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 16 2016 18:03 utc | 170

The fear among the rulers is not about Donald Trump per se but about the energies he can potentially unleash and has already unleashed. The rulers of war and Wall street are backed by the liberal left in an unholy alliance that exposes the essential truth of the situation: aggressive macho neoliberals and war criminals that pretend to sleep under the duvets of the PC left.

This perfect little Zioinst bed-share has been disrupted, its flow diverted. It cannot now take it back. The pro-Trumpers are too angry and have too many guns. They have the police and sections of the army on their side. No, not gonna happen. Trump will be elected.

Posted by: Lochearn | Dec 16 2016 18:09 utc | 171

@168 b... thanks... and we know who that is..

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2016 18:09 utc | 172

@From The Hague #171:

Trump is crystal clear on Islam (it's dangerous).
Palestian Islam is no difference (it's dangerous).

I've come to the same conclusion.

(But Israelis don't seem to treat Christian Palestinians any better than they treat Muslim Palestinians.)

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 18:11 utc | 173

for Noirette (and other Fr speakers), panic mode
https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/la-grande-table-2eme-partie/le-declassement-spirale-dun-deni

Posted by: Mina | Dec 16 2016 18:19 utc | 174

I just heard a recording of Obama (in an interview, I believe) saying that Putin had been head of the KGB. As far as I know, Putin's highest rank in the KGB was lieutenant colonel.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 16 2016 18:21 utc | 175

Posted by: b | Dec 16, 2016 12:37:36 PM | 168

There is some analysis that Netanyahu is worried because Trump's policy on Jerusalem and his evangelical base favor Netanyahu's right wing rivals (yes there are powerful factions in Israel to the right of Netanyahu).

It is very unlikely Trump will stop money given to Israel to buy US weapons - that would threaten US jobs.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 16, 2016 1:21:18 PM | 177

Of course, it is ridiculous. Anything better than having lost an election out of hubris.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 16 2016 18:30 utc | 176

@ somebody

What's your point?

Posted by: Lochearn | Dec 16 2016 18:37 utc | 177

@168

That's it; that's all you have? One paranoid IDF spokesman; when Netanyahu, his commander-in-chief, had glowing praise for Trump on 60 Minutes last Sunday and undercut Obama? The whole time Trump was mentioned; he couldn't stop smiling until Leslie Stahl mentioned Putin and Russia and then his face was eclipsed by a somber look, and it was noticeable, despite the fact that Netanyahu has been pretending cordial economic ties with Russia.

The 38 billion is a 10-year commitment, and Trump will be in for 8 years; so that insurance is already locked in. Zionists always move the goal post with fear-mongering to get more. It's just one of their many manipulations to get every little thing they want.

And what have you to say of Trump's latest appointment, David Friedman? I know this uber-Zionist Friedman spoiled your narrative but are you really expecting us to believe that Trump appointed this radical settler enabler only to pull the rug out from under him? And are you really going to put lipstick on the pig; defend the indefensible just because Trump appears and I really underscore appears Russia-friendly for now? And that appearance is not part of a wider ulterior strategy, right?

I just want to point at the obvious again: Trump’s cabinet is made of the deep state’s favorite things: high-ranking representatives from the MIC; Wall Street 1 percenters some of which are Zionists; just today, a radical Zionist Ambassador to Israel; the oil industry; insiders like Pence, Sessions, Price, Perry and Haley and Neocon advisors on the sidelines: Woolsey, Yates, Neufeld and Bolton. And of course, all of them committed to the Anglo/Zionist Empire’s interests and you really think this foreshadows kumbaya with Russia?

Trump is all in but if you want to hang on to that thread, by all means.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 18:52 utc | 178

@ 180

You are just not getting it. This is much more. Trump has maybe inadvertly touched into latent power that has been dormant for years waiting to express itself. Trump is just a convenient symbol.

Posted by: Lochearn | Dec 16 2016 19:00 utc | 179

Trump is just a convenient symbol.

Exactly, making him the ideal tool of choice to placate the mob while the Ango/Zionist Empire keeps advancing.

@178

Yeah, what is your point?

@177

There is some analysis that Netanyahu is worried because Trump's policy on Jerusalem and his evangelical base favor Netanyahu's right wing rivals

Are you telling us that Netanyahu doesn't want the
U.S. Embassy moved, the Iran deal discarded and is not into illegal settlement expansion same has the settler movement?

Netanyahu's only problem with Trump is that he wishes he were President of the U.S and Israel.


Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 19:12 utc | 180

@lysias #177:

I just heard a recording of Obama (in an interview, I believe) saying that Putin had been head of the KGB. As far as I know, Putin's highest rank in the KGB was lieutenant colonel.

Putin having been head of the KGB appears to be a myth that has developed among the US establishment. The NY Times made the same claim recently here:

Rus "dissident" w/ child porn
NYT - Russia did it !!https://t.co/kAXHR4vpFg
Reality - Dude notorious "kids like it"https://t.co/qEu0tI31Oh

— Moon of Alabama (@MoonofA) December 16, 2016

This is an example of how the liberal/Dem establishment has become detached from reality. The same thing happened with the Soviets. An empire can't be ruled effectively if the elite believes its own lies. This is probably one reason why the Deep State allowed Trump to win.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 19:19 utc | 181

Posted by: Lochearn | Dec 16, 2016 1:37:54 PM | 179

1)
Netanyahu cannot get a political mandate for a two state solution. Trump's evangelical base won't give Trump one either.

So it's the one state solution and the end of Zionism.

2)
The present cold war hysteria can only be explained by one Democratic party faction not wishing to discuss why they lost the elections.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 16 2016 19:28 utc | 182

Snopes.com : White Helmet Hearsay
http://www.snopes.com/syrian-rescue-organization-the-white-helmets-are-terrorists/

A nongovernmental search-and-rescue organization on the ground in Syria has drawn a lot of attention, but claims they are linked to terrorists are unfounded.

CLAIM: The search-and-rescue organization in Syria, the White Helmets, is linked to terrorists.

UNPROVEN..
####

In a stunning piece of ground breaking journalism, an American journalist based in LA has ascertained the facts about the White Helmets without setting foot anywhere near the story! That Vanessa Beeley has been one of the very few journalists reporting on the ground from Syria & Aleppo counts for nada. The journalist has form:

http://www.snopes.com/syrian-war-victims-are-being-recycled-and-al-quds-hospital-was-never-bombed/

Posted by: et Al | Dec 16 2016 19:43 utc | 183

@somebody #185:

The present cold war hysteria can only be explained by one Democratic party faction not wishing to discuss why they lost the elections.

Yes, now that you mention it, that could be a more important factor than the CIA wishing to protect itself. I read somewhere that Hillary said at an appearance last night that she was happy with how she ran her campaign, because she bashed Putin a lot.

Oh wait, just looked that up with Google News:

Hillary Clinton Singles Out Putin, Comey in Election Loss

Hillary Clinton told donors on Thursday night that her loss was partly due to U.S. election hacks directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin and FBI director James Comey's election-eve letter to Congress related to her use of a private email server.

"Putin publicly blamed me for the outpouring of outrage by his own people…that is the direct line between what he said back then and what he did in this Election," Clinton is heard saying in an audio recording first obtained by the New York Times and verified as authentic by several sources present at the event to NBC News.

I have no idea of what she's talking about. She sounds utterly delusional.

As I've said before, one thing that's interesting about this Cold War hysteria is that it is completely restricted to Democrats. Trump supporters are constantly making tweets blaming Russia for all sorts of things, like having a bad day.

Which makes me think: this Russia bashing that the Dems have been doing may actually have a positive result, because it has made Republicans (other than the ones in Washington) come solidly behind Putin in not seeing Russia as an adversary – just a country with its own interests which do not always align with those of the US.

Incidentally, Russophobia has been prevalent among progressives for a lonrg time. They see Russia as a hate-filled place, because it does not allow gay pride parades. Thus, to them Russia is the enemy, because it is opposed to their official ideology of identity politics.

Demian is now known as Adelbrand

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 19:49 utc | 184

(Prediction: Bolton will not get the Deputy position.)

Maybe, but just in case, Trump's considering one of either of these two Zionists waiting in the wings to fill the slot: Richard Haass or Elliot Abrams; both of which promote imperial hegemony.

This is Haass' policy (from wikipedia):

Haass most clearly outlined his foreign policy views in his book The Reluctant Sheriff (1997). In his book, Haass argued that the United States should play the role of international sheriff. Maintaining international order often means “assuming the role of international sheriff, one who forges coalitions or posses of states and others for specific tasks,” Haass writes (Haass 1997, 6). In other words, Haass called on the United States to assume the role of an international sheriff that forges posses of states that worked together to patrol the international system.

Elliot Abrams was a signator of PNAC. Need I say more?

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 19:53 utc | 185

Lysias @ 177: Off the top of my head I recall reading that Putin was made head of the FSB (the Russian intel successor to the KGB) by then President Yeltsin in 1998. Putin lasted in the position for about a year before being made Prime Minister in 1999.

Putin spent about 15 years in the KGB from 1975 to 1990 and rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel. During his time in the KGB, he spent 6 (?) years in Dresden, in East Germany. The purpose of that job was to recruit foreign university students in the city to act as informants for the KGB but as far as I know Putin's success in that activity didn't amount to much.

My information comes from Wikipedia's articles on Putin and the source Wikipeda relied on is New York-based writer Masha Gessen who is a darling of the SJW literary circles and most definitely is not a Putin fan.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 16 2016 19:53 utc | 186

@Jen #189:

Off the top of my head I recall reading that Putin was made head of the FSB (the Russian intel successor to the KGB) by then President Yeltsin in 1998. …

My information comes from Wikipedia's articles on Putin

You are correct about Putin and the FSB. When I wrote a comment above, I looked at that WP article too, and it doesn't say anything about that, which is a pretty big fail.

From the NY Times cited in b's tweet that I quoted above (a very vile piece of anti-Russian propaganda):

Before becoming president at the end of 1999, Mr. Putin played a prominent role in a particularly spectacular example of this Russian specialty. As head of the Federal Security Agency, or F.S.B., in 1997, Mr. Putin won the trust of Mr. Yeltsin by helping to destroy the career of Russia’s prosecutor general, Yury Skuratov, who, after starting an investigation into Kremlin corruption, was disgraced on national television by the broadcast of a video that showed a man who looked like him in bed with two young women.

Mr. Putin certified in public that the man in the video, widely believed to have been arranged and then filmed by the F.S.B., was indeed the prosecutor general. Mr. Skuratov resigned. The corruption investigation ended. A grateful Mr. Yeltsin named Mr. Putin prime minister and then president.

The Times seems to be saying that Putin vouched for a video that was actually fake.

That piece is about how the FSB planted child porn on Valdimir Bukovsky's computer to discredit him. Bukovsky was a highly respected and admired Soviet dissident who, as I learned from b's tweet, turns out to be a virulent Russophobe.

The funny thing is that the Guardian article that b linked to doesn't say anything about any evidence being planted, and notes that Bukovsky immediately admitted to detectives that he had downloaded child porn.

Russophobia and pedophilia seem to go together. One sees the same with pizzagate.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 20:19 utc | 187

Yes, it is true that Putin was head of the FSB, but Obama, who should certainly be better informed, said that he was head of the KGB. Obama then went on at some length about the crimes of the KGB.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 16 2016 20:32 utc | 188

The sky's not falling after all. Looks like the bosses got to Obama and made him tone down the rhetoric with his press conference today on this hacking issue so their new tool continues to appear all shiny, different and new. Dem supporters are crying profusely in their soup that he didn't come out swinging on behalf of their precious Hillary. What a bunch of dupes. People just don't get that the Presidency no matter who occupies it from the monopoly parties is but a front for the deep state and they make their choice before the election.

Posted by: Circe | Dec 16 2016 20:34 utc | 189

is there an alternative name to the deep state? I hate that term

Posted by: aaaa | Dec 16 2016 20:44 utc | 190

December 16, 2016 YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP

Former Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton on Thursday made her first public statements about Russia's cyberattacks on Democrats during the US election, saying Russian President Vladimir Putin attempted to "undermine our democracy" because of his "personal beef" with her.

"We're learning more every day about the Russians' unprecedented plot to swing the election," she told a group of campaign donors at Manhattan's Plaza Hotel on Thursday night, according to audio obtained by The New York Times.

"Putin personally directed these attacks ... apparently because he has a personal beef against me," Clinton said. "He is determined not only to score a point against me, which he did, but also to undermine our democracy. ... It's part of a long-term [Russian] strategy to cause us to doubt ourselves."

http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/12/16/clinton-putins-personal-beef-against-me-inspired-the-russian/21629637/

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 16 2016 20:52 utc | 191

@aaaa #193:

is there an alternative name to the deep state?

Political Science’s “theory of Everything”

Contemporary main-stream pundits now openly describe these hidden forces as a “shadow government,” a “corporatocracy” or a “deep state” controlling American politics. None however can do justice to what truly is an amorphous, complex and intricate web of overlapping entities.

@lysias #191:

Yes, it is true that Putin was head of the FSB, but Obama, who should certainly be better informed, said that he was head of the KGB. Obama then went on at some length about the crimes of the KGB.

Obama makes the US look pathetic because he can't hide his venomous hatred of Putin, which appears to have a racist component. Fortunately, we will soon have a POTUS who does not have problems with his self-esteem and is not a racist.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 20:59 utc | 192

@ 192 "People just don't get that the Presidency no matter who occupies it from the monopoly parties is but a front for the deep state and they make their choice before the election."

Yep! case closed!

Posted by: ben | Dec 16 2016 21:01 utc | 193

"Russophobia and pedofillia" ??? Reminds me prosecutions of Scott Ritter.

By the way, first to convert Russia to Christianity, with considerable sacrifices (abandoning a harem of 900 maiden), become a saint, and then folk misspell your name Vladimir. At least they are getting Vladimir Vladimirovich right.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 16 2016 21:02 utc | 194

Ford made a U turn lately
what is he after?
https://twitter.com/robn1980/status/809838020446797825

Posted by: Mina | Dec 16 2016 21:33 utc | 195

Posted by: Mina | Dec 16, 2016 4:33:19 PM | 198

This former UK ambassador has always been saying that,

You mix him with US ambassador Robert Ford who did not change his position

Posted by: somebody | Dec 16 2016 21:58 utc | 196

Alternative name for the deep state? Try the original Turkish of which "deep state" is a literal translation: derin devlet.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 16 2016 22:00 utc | 197

@Piotr Berman #197:

convert Russia to Christianity, with considerable sacrifices (abandoning a harem of 900 maiden)

Kind of makes you wonder where he got such a strong motivation to convert.

But that reminds me that I was never able to understand why Muslims are treated as an oppressed group in the same way that women and people of color are. Being a Muslim is a choice. Any Muslim can do what Vladimir did, if he or she truly wants to assimilate in a Western society. And the principle of religious freedom does not apply to Islam, since it is not a legitimate religion, but a Christian heresy.

@Mina #198:

In a tweet, if you click on the three dots at the bottom, you get a menu, and if you then click on "Embed tweet", you then get a string that you can pace into the comment area at MoA. The tweet will then appear nicely formatted in the thread, and people won't have to click on a link to see what the tweet says.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Dec 16 2016 22:03 utc | 198

@193 aaaa.. pat lang and gang call it 'the borg' as i understand it..

Posted by: james | Dec 16 2016 23:09 utc | 199

Adalbrand @201

I have seen many Muslim, and they are no more similar to each other than various Christians. Not all Christians "assimilated in a Western society". There is a "liberal concept of Western society", Enlightenment and all such, and it is emphatically rejected by more stringent Christians, of whom there is a lot in USA and, proportionally, perhaps more in Poland.

So if you are a stringent Polish Catholic or Southern Baptist, should you "assimilate"? I guess it could be an improvement, but in terms of policies and politics, conviviality requires efforts on both sides. And if the "West" aspires to superiority, it would help if it were giving a good example.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 17 2016 0:56 utc | 200

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