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November 07, 2016

U.S. Election Thread 2016-06

Whatever there is to say about the election ...

Posted by b on November 7, 2016 at 18:22 UTC | Permalink

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Write in 'Cynthia McKinney' , walk away....

Posted by: Chevrus | Nov 7 2016 18:24 utc | 1

Chevrus says:

Write in 'Cynthia McKinney' , walk away....

i did that in 2008. now i'm gone.

Posted by: john | Nov 7 2016 18:33 utc | 2

OH, the Hillarity.

Posted by: schlub | Nov 7 2016 18:35 utc | 3

First and foremost, thanks b, for what you do!

Second, no matter the result of this "election", the working classes of the globe are screwed. I, for one, wish for the push for a multi-polar world to succeed.

Posted by: ben | Nov 7 2016 18:45 utc | 4

The bankrupt nature of the "lesser of two evils" is fully upon us in America. The two most hated candidates in recent memory face off in an election with basically no policy debate. This is not to say there aren't policy differences between the two, just that policy has not driven the debate in any way. The longer people vote for the lesser of two perceived evils rather than ever stepping out of the false binary debate between two corrupt political parties, the worse the candidates will get.

I feel like a citizen of Rome during its long decline--with the exception that I don't think America's decline will take as long. It's already upon us, with the only saving grace that the rest of the 'developed world' is in the muck as much as America is, thanks to their slavish devotion to the same forces of financialization.

I'm voting for Dr. Jill Stein, but given that she'll probably get around 1% my vote is essentially meaningless and will send no signal to the DNC and RNC that they need to change anything.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Nov 7 2016 18:55 utc | 5

3 Recent Wikileaks Revelations You Should Know About from TRNN:

No duh, eh?

Posted by: ben | Nov 7 2016 18:56 utc | 6

WBL @ 5 said...

"I'm voting for Dr. Jill Stein, but given that she'll probably get around 1% my vote is essentially meaningless and will send no signal to the DNC and RNC that they need to change anything."


Posted by: ben | Nov 7 2016 18:59 utc | 7

49% of polled Americans think that Bill Clinton would make a "good First Gentleman" while 37% thinks something similar about Melanie Trump. I am a resident alien, and I am at loss what the questions mean. Who would be more capable of shouting "careful with that button!!"??? Better at entertaining guests, and not overly good at seducing the staff (Bill is a bit too old for that, and Melanie ...). Concerning the accent, I definitely prefer Slovenian to Southern, but Americans may have a different preference (to my ear, Melanie has no accent at all, she is just easier to understand than most, and all Southern accent speakers in particular).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 7 2016 19:04 utc | 8

Dear Americans: you do have a choice!

Posted by: nmb | Nov 7 2016 19:13 utc | 9

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 7 2016 19:14 utc | 10

I'm hoping that Trump defeats Crooked Hillary tomorrow and we can have some unPC hilarity for the next 4 years.

Posted by: ab initio | Nov 7 2016 19:38 utc | 11


Huffpost said it best in an ironic banner headline today: "THE END IS NIGH!"

They posted this photo of The Obstreperous But Indispensable Old Hag in Chief (OBIOHIC) celebrating her totally rigged win.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 7 2016 19:44 utc | 12

Simply sum up 2016 presidential election: Repub. united against Trump. Dem. united against Trump. Blacks, Latinos and minority united against Trump.

Trump stands alone and polls show Hillary slightly ahead except LA Times and IBD/TIPP. Predictions, Repub. will retain the House, maybe the Senate too. There will be another constitution’s crisis. This time is different SCOTUS is evenly divided and most likely liberal associate justices side with Hillary. Another do nothing Congress regardless who win tomorrow.

If Trump win, Obomo will pardon Hillary, Dick Cheney, Dubya and himself for all crimes committed during Dubya and his watched. A Hillary win god have mercy on us.....

Finally, this morning voted Jill Stein and all Repub. and skips Senator. California - both candidates are Dem.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 7 2016 20:02 utc | 13

The more I think about this thing, the more I figure the world would be better off with someone like Hillary at helm when the US collapse begins.

That way the demon worshipers don't get the plausible deniability and benefit of blaming the plebeian masses for "choosing the very wrong person" when the SHTF as it inevitably must.

In other words, I want the lynch mobs to be supremely confident that they're doing the right thing when they go after the elites.

Posted by: Quadriad | Nov 7 2016 20:32 utc | 14

My latest pearl of wisdom for the Trump campaign, "Trump and his campaign failed to stigmatize Hillary foreign policy as EVIL (not just incompetent); He should rectify that, on the last day of campaigning", on reddit, @ (citizen run exit pollers, though tailored to catch only likely Democratic fraud, if I understood, correctly) only has 58% of it's stated goal of volunteers. That's 3,192 people. IMO, redundant, citizen conducted exit polls should be done outside of each and every polling place.

Posted by: metamars | Nov 7 2016 20:35 utc | 15

I never quite understand why, despite all their globalism and love of diversity, Millennials don't seem very interested in or concerned with foreign policy. Brown people, and black Africans, suffering thanks to US intervention in Libya? Brown people (or at least non-Euro white people) suffering because of US (etc.) intervention in Syria? Brown people suffering because of US-backed KSA intervention in Yemen? Discriminated against ethnic Russian untermenschen suffering in the Ukraine thanks to a US-backed coup? The ongoing destruction in Afghanistan and Iraq? US support for the slow motion destruction of the Palestinians? The multi-national drone war? Why does none of this seem to matter much?

Maybe a lot of it is "confusing?" Clearly, the MSM suppresses a lot of this news, when it isn't spinning it misleadingly. Maybe Millennials have gotten so used to America always being openly at war somewhere, that it's come to seem normal and not worth questioning.

Posted by: RudyM | Nov 7 2016 20:38 utc | 16

If Trump wins, he should make make immediate (but reasonable) attempts at reconciliation with large swathes of the electorate that loathe him. A close relative of mine, who I've always considered both one of the most intelligent as well as spiritual of my relatives, announced that she "won't be able to work, anymore, if Trump gets elected". This was related, somehow, to misogynistic treatment she had suffered from coworkers. (The only connection I could figure out was that a President Trump would encourage their bad boy behavior, though the presumed connection was not explained.) I mostly kept my mouth shut about Clinton's vileness, for the sake of family harmony (saying only that I was voting for a Republican for the first time in my life), but my cousin only lasted a few minutes, anyway. She got upset when her mother repeated a conspiracy theory about Comey getting paid off by the Clintons. And off she went!

Posted by: metamars | Nov 7 2016 20:45 utc | 17

One day shy, and I've still not decided what to do. I lean toward Trump solely because he is best positioned to destroy the oligarchic duopoly. I lean away because he I have no truck with white nationalism. One day left. Absurd.

Posted by: Martin Finnucane | Nov 7 2016 20:47 utc | 18

Dunno! I'm usually left brained in my approach; analytical, specific, if one of my 5 senses alerts me then I pay attention, self-centered. But my right brain; holistic, all inclusive, empathetic; has me somewhat worried. I am fearing, unreasonably I admit, that the entrenched PTB, Obama et al., are prepared to move to not let their candidate lose.

All hail King Obama!

Nonsense but my paranoia has taken over, temporarily I trust.

Sorry to have had to effuse here.

Posted by: juannie | Nov 7 2016 20:48 utc | 19

I just spent 2 hours trying to figure out which of the 3 socialist parties on my ballot was worthy of my vote ... being annoyed by the Greens (their website has not been updated since mid-September, I'm not a facebook user -- the "critical" -- I was told -- Green party challenge in the Senate race has not been updated since MAY!!!) ...
anyway, I did a write in ... almost gave up and voted Green ... but the 3 socialist party's web presence gave me no reason to chose any one of them ... except on the basis of "web site design" -- feh -- good luck!

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 7 2016 20:55 utc | 20

Both of the likely winners are actually losers ... and that bodes ill for the DunMuriKKKan people. On the other hand, given the split in opinion and the anger that will seethe post-election, maybe we'll have an actual collapse ... in which case, I'd find some solace in a revolution, or at least a rebellion.

The llano estacado, where I reside, is partly in Texas, and there are some serious secessionists in west Texas. Thus, as much as I abhor Texans in general, I'll root for any actual attempt to split the place up. The downside, of course, is that any number of oligarchs are invested in West Texas oil, and that does not bode well. Still, a rebellion by well armed West Texans would put paid to the current stupidity.

Oh, yeah, we actually got some rain ... and the peanut crop was good in spite of the drought.

Posted by: rg the lg | Nov 7 2016 21:13 utc | 21

Last weeks almost daily Dem.’s foot soldiers going house to house but skipped my house as worked in the front yard. They checked their clipboards, knew exactly which houses to knocked. I presume, they skipped my house knowing I'll be showing my finger.

Republicans’ foot solders nowhere to be found. Can't wait to see the same Republican wrestle this House seat from the incumbent. In 2014 midterm election, an unknown Republican lost after mandatory recounts. I'm no Republican lover and a group (Caexit> is currently trying to qualify a citizen’s initiative in 2018, referendum for secession on the ballot in 2019. Amen!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 7 2016 21:28 utc | 22

I'll repeat here the position I decided on for myself, and offered a few weeks back.

I looked to the example of Russia, which believes in international law, and has acted accordingly, with such rigor that the rest of the world is turning to it as the way forward also. Russia's beliefs, bolstered by her actions, are changing the world. People with lazy minds sneered at Russia for her belief in international law. They sneer less now, and one day they'll fall completely silent, reduced to nothing.

I believe in voting. I believe in a society run by voting. I've seen in other nations how the political health of nations is improved by multiple parties. The US can be improved by developing more than the current 2 parties. I believe in intelligent people. I like honesty, and honor. For me, Dr. Jill Stein is the obvious choice.

I don't believe in naysayers. I don't believe in those who think it's pointless to vote for the world you want to achieve. I don't believe in those who have no patience, and no persistence, to accomplish long term goals.

Everyone has power. One throws away one's power whenever one believes any voice that says that one has no power, or that one's actions don't have an effect.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 7 2016 21:29 utc | 23

Try this : and this and let us look at all the shades of truth and comparison on which history brings us to a bridge.

Posted by: jocelyn braddell | Nov 7 2016 21:32 utc | 24


Posted by: paul | Nov 7 2016 21:39 utc | 25

Having joked about Gil Fulbright, Giant Meteor, and Canada for President in an earlier thread, I have to be realistic.
1. Hold nose - vote Trump
2. Lesser of 5 evils - write-in for Darrell Castle, Constitution Party
3. Protest vote - write-in for Giant Meteor
4. Protest non-vote - stay home and drink

Posted by: Curtis | Nov 7 2016 21:40 utc | 26

That said or written, Cynthia McKinney sounds good. So does Dennis Kucinich. At least those two opposed the Hillary's Libyan Massacre which I wish Trump had slammed her with.

Posted by: Curtis | Nov 7 2016 21:42 utc | 27

scotlands SNP leader Nicole Sturgeon supports Hillary clinton and her FB thread goes into comment meltdown

Hillary supports austerity, while Nicole does not, and war in MENA : Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday emphasized Washington’s “strong support” for Greece’s commitment to right its debt-ridden economy through tough austerity measures, and she thanked the government for its contributions to NATO-led operations in Libya and diplomatic efforts in the Middle East

Posted by: brian | Nov 7 2016 21:47 utc | 28

I wish Bernie had slammed Hillary much much harder too. The Wikileaks of a few days ago made mention of an non-aggression pact ... because (unsurprisingly) the Clinton campaign was outraged when Bernie mentioned the Clinton's hustling for $$$ ... so the Sander's campaign was "talked to" ...

I'd love to have insight into that process by which the DNC allowed Sanders to run for the Democratic slot, and he made his promises ... who was in the room and when was it signed, sealed and delivered -- and what did it specify. I think American voters need that transparency

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 7 2016 21:52 utc | 29

@Curtis | Nov 7, 2016 4:42:40 PM | 27

Dennis Kucinich sold out on single-payer, remember?
Vote out all Dem. Period

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 7 2016 21:54 utc | 30

Steinx2 in this dwelling. [then drink]

Posted by: beq | Nov 7 2016 22:05 utc | 31

OK, so whaduya make of this: multiple outlets are reporting that the Hilton campaign has canceled their victory fireworks over the Hudson previously planned for tomorrow night.

They had permits and had notified Coast Guard, but on THURSDAY last week (before Comey WTF gaff #2) they advised the CG they were canceling.

Also, note that in California voters have a very stark choice between ending capital punishment and speeding up the process. Prop 62 vs. Prop 66. I can't recall this choice ever being put before the voters so bluntly before.

The great Chi.Tribune writer, Mike Royko, said the victim should make the decision as to whether his/her murderer buys the farm.

See The Royko-registery

Posted by: Denis | Nov 7 2016 22:15 utc | 32…/US-Praesidentschaftswahl-Polizeistaat…
Am 8. November dürfen die US-Bürger zwischen Pest und Cholera wählen

( on the 8th Nov US citizens get the chance to vote for either bubonic plague or cholera )

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Nov 7 2016 23:05 utc | 33

I would hazard the guess that the fireworks in New York were cancelled because the authorities had some reason to fear a terrorist incident.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 7 2016 23:35 utc | 34

@32. Hard for the victim to make the choice when he's already dead.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 7 2016 23:36 utc | 35

Jill Stein. Agree w/Grieved @ 23. I hope final tally reflects her #'s here.

Sunflower @ 29

Stein's site is updated regularly.

Posted by: jdmckay | Nov 7 2016 23:37 utc | 36

@35 Read the article. The idea is to keep a database of citizens who are for or against the death penalty in the event that they are murdered.

Posted by: dh | Nov 7 2016 23:45 utc | 37

I'm not terribly interested in Stein. (I've voted for her before, I don't dislike her). I am interested in "growing" the party locally and on state level -- that's what I'm not seeing (and have not seen since the pull-back after the so-called 2000 debacle, to be followed by 09/11).

Many Democrats appear to be oblivious how much of the country has gone "red" at the state and local levels. The democratic party is somehow failing there (too). I did vote for the Green challenger to my Democratic senator (because the seat is "safe.")

It's not a strength to be voting Green as a "protest vote" -- and voting "D" when it matter, iykwim, and that's where the Greens remain.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 7 2016 23:56 utc | 38

Fuck you Hillary. Fucking pyromaniac.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 8 2016 0:09 utc | 39

malcolm gladwell on the usa election candidates via cbc link

2 quotes '"I think he will be in jail within a year," he told The National's Wendy Mesley in an interview.'

'"To me, the most disturbing lesson about this election is that the United States is a good deal less open to women in positions of power than it would like to pretend that it is."'

Posted by: james | Nov 8 2016 0:24 utc | 40

Ralph Nader was interested in growing the party, too.

What makes you think the deep state will ever let any meaningful third party candidate participate in an election, unless they think it will work to the advantage of their candidate of choice?

Just the fact that the elite hate Trump is enough for me.

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 8 2016 0:29 utc | 41

Not voting for Trump is a criminal act

Posted by: From The Hague | Nov 8 2016 0:48 utc | 42

Best result would be quagmire/gridlock, cuz neither Hill nor Trump is good for bottom 90% children, mothers or fathers anywhere on earth.

Vote For Gridlock! Hillary wins electoral college, Trump wins popular vote!

How do you do that? Sorry, fresh out of advice.

Posted by: fairleft | Nov 8 2016 0:54 utc | 43

The Green party thrived under the odious leadership of Bill Clinton ... the 2000 election, followed by 09/11 did very very bad things to America's psyche ... "question authority" became unthinkable. I think it's part of the engine behind the messianic DLC/Clinton campaign who seen themselves as saviors ... and the go-for-broke Trump as savior appeal. I have never known a time of less interest in the details, background, alternatives, discussion.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 8 2016 1:03 utc | 44

from emptywheel. FBI’s Demographics: No Pot Smokers, but Lots of Middle Aged White Men

"Largely overlooked in the imbroglio is how the fact that the FBI doesn’t look much like America is complicating Comey’s effort to extricate himself and his agency from the political firestorm.

According to numbers from August, 67 percent of FBI agents are white men. Fewer than 20 percent are women. The number of African-American agents hovers around 4.5 percent, with Asian-Americans about the same and Latinos at about 6.5 percent.

If Trump were running for president with an electorate that looked like that, he’d win in a landslide."

Posted by: james | Nov 8 2016 1:06 utc | 45

At this FUBAR moment I can only give one suggestion. One I have already posted here, the other at Zero Hedge. It would never have gotten this bad (no choices whatsoever) if we had effectively disrupted the two-party coercing spoiler effect. So again I quote myself:

{quote} Because we are saddled with single-bid ("plurality") voting, we are stuck with "Duverger's law" (which has been very poorly defined), which mandates that single-bid voting inexorably leads to the establishment of an entrenched two-party system. If we had strategic hedge simple score voting we could, for example, give 10 votes the Stein, and from 5 to 9 votes to Trump (and then simply add them all up). But since we are stuck with a two-party system from which there is no possible escape, it is futile to vote for anyone but Trump if we wish to avoid death by nuclear fire. Hopefully if Trump wins the military will immediately begin taking orders from Trump, and ignore Obama. {end quote} --

{quote} I have described the strategic hedge simple score election method all over the Internet, and it has been known of for many years. It is simple in the sense that does not require easily hackable voting machines, and can easily work with hand counted paper ballots at non-centralized poling stations. It is not hampered by any requirement to cater to so-called "sincere," "honest" (actually artless and foolish) voters. It easily thwarts both the spoiler effect and the blind hurdle dilemma (the "Burr Dilemma"), which prevents voters from exercising the strategies that they need to use to defeat the big bosses. It just works.

Strategic hedge simple score voting can be described in one simple sentence: Strategically bid no vote at all for undesired candidates (ignore them as though they did not exist), or strategically cast from five to ten votes for any number of candidates you prefer (up to some reasonable limit of, say, twelve candidates), and then simply add all the votes up.

Both IRV-style and approval voting methods suffer from the blind hurdle dilemma, which can be overcome with the hedge voting strategy. An example of usage of the hedge strategy, presuming the (most famous) case of a "leftist" voter, would be casting ten votes for Ralph Nader, and only eight or nine "hedge votes" for Al Gore. This way, the voter would only sacrifice 20 or 10 percent of their electoral influence if Nader did not win.

Don't be fooled by fake "alternatives" like "IRV" and "approval voting". Ranked choice voting is supported by the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Open Society Foundations (of Soros), and on and on.

Ranked choice voting is just as bad,or worse than out present single-bid ("plurality") method with regard to enforcing the two party syndrome, and this has been demonstrated repeatedly in history.

Score voting is fundamentally distinct from ranked choice voting, and does not promote the two party syndrome. That's probably why it doesn't get hundreds of millions of promotion dollars as the "Green" Party's ranked choice system does.

PLEASE look at the truth for yourself:

Very hard to believe, huh?

And demand hand counted paper ballots that cannot be rigged by "Russian hackers".

We are stuck with this miserable system because of a surprisingly large array of people who I call the "election methods cognoscenti". Over many years, these cognoscenti have assembled an enormous collection of distracting, unworkable election methods. This "intellectual subject" has, for instance, consumed perhaps hundreds of pages in works such as the Wikipedia. These cognoscenti have created a gigantic Glass Bead Game which serves no real purpose other than to facilitate intellectual speculation. In nearly every instance where their election methods have been employed, disaster has ensued, although in a few cases, their systems have languished on, providing no better results than the choose-one voting system. Millions, perhaps tens of millions of dollars, have been spent promoting the "IRV" method, which has been tried and abandoned in several venues where it caused massive chaos.

We cannot afford any more of this intellectual masturbation, which has lead to this absurd 2016 "election". All we should be doing is protesting for safe, easy-to-understand strategic hedge simple score voting. {end quote} --

Please look at the "fairvote" links provided; it will amaze you, I promise.

God help us.

Posted by: blues | Nov 8 2016 1:09 utc | 46

Vote for anyone but Hillary. She definitely stated she wants a no-fly zone in Syria. A no-fly zone is a recipe for escalation into full-blown war. Don't vote Hillary.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 8 2016 1:22 utc | 47

Trump. It won't be close.

Posted by: Elwood | Nov 8 2016 1:54 utc | 48

I think posted yesterday somewhere, worth posting again.. The unimaginative title doesn't do Hudson's words justice, though they never seem to anyways...

Political Economist Michael Hudson on Why Trump Is the ‘Lesser Evil’

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 8 2016 1:54 utc | 49

I'm with him (#48).

Posted by: Take Me | Nov 8 2016 2:20 utc | 50

I want to share a thought with MoA folks about the cognitive dissonance that a certain number of (mostly male) Americans are going to have even if war mongering Clinton II is (s)elected.

We have entered either a multi-polar world or our extinction because the elites decided that way. For our discussion lets assume that this is after most Americans wake up to the multi-polar world but before potential extinction. The following is my representation of what I think the brainwashed, USA USA USA type would say to their friends about the multi-polar world news:

"You know don't you, If we hadn't had a n***** followed by a c***** as president, this would have never happened."

You can call me a conspiracy type but I think the global plutocrats planned it this way.....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 8 2016 2:22 utc | 51

I don't know ... We got Obama, as I recall, as Teddy Kennedy's last stand anyone-but-a-Clinton (and the DLC) ... It has appeared for the last years (2-3-4? or more) that the decision was that it was Hillary's turn. Any sane democratic party watcher would be alarmed that no one was willing to run against her -- were her henchmen that threatening? Would it have to be self-financed because HRC had a lock on the money?

I think it's a tip off that no there were no "get my feet wet" also rans ... there should have been at least two, if only as insurance if HRC was forced to leave the race unexpectedly (illness, plane crash).

Among Wikileaks is memo in which the Democrats strategize to get the press to elevate the extreme republican primary contenders (including Trump, Cruz) in hope of driving the GOP party to the right, to the too far right for the MOR voters and gaining advantage. They're not terribly good at this thing when you consider how badly they misjudged Sanders.

I think Democrats (and most Americans) no longer have much of a picture of what they'd like to see the government actually do ... it's been so long. The passage of the ACA was such an extreme outlier, and treated almost a fluke and "you're lucky you got anything and now you may lose it."

Classic operant conditioning in a way -- extremely variable (random) rewards work better than some sort of hard-earned interval reward, because the randomness some how increases the expectation

Guardian on variable reward.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 8 2016 3:21 utc | 52

Opting for Jill Stein. Trump is all over the place.

If Hillary wins and starts world war 3, I'd like to thank you people for furthering my education.

...Tangentially, is anyone worried about a false flag tomorrow, to escalate the rhetoric and anger towards Russia (from insinuating "interfering" to insinuating acts of terrorism)?

Posted by: dumbass | Nov 8 2016 3:28 utc | 53

HRC = democratic mob rule


Trump = democratic mob riots

Posted by: GrandPa | Nov 8 2016 4:05 utc | 54

Off topic pet peeve of mine. Why is it that once the comments pass the hundred mark, one cant go directly to it by clicking on the author's name in the sidebar and is there a remedy? Txs.

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 8 2016 4:15 utc | 55

California is a BLUE State. My vote for Dr. Jill Stein cannot change the outcome tomorrow results. However, it may help the Green party in the next election if Green party gain 5% of the votes, look unlikely!

Voting for Republican in my House District may tip the balance against incumbent Dem. There are more than three dead heat House seats in CA. According to ZeroHedge Trump may win if he carries Florida and a few Southern plus one or two New England States. It will be a close election.

I feel good about it, no regret even if Hillary win. As far as I'm concern, she is the biggest liar, Maria Zakharova Russia's Foreign Affairs spokesperson said, American stupidity is worse than terrorism!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 8 2016 4:36 utc | 56

On behalf of the humanity - thank you all who voted against Hitlary Killton.

It may be that your votes in the election for Congress are as much important, a tie is quite probable.

I sense that the POTUS will not be known until a few weeks from now, the election will be heavily contested and widespread turmoils are possible.

Posted by: ProPeace | Nov 8 2016 4:50 utc | 57

This 2 minute video was published 12 hours ago ...


Posted by: ALberto | Nov 8 2016 4:57 utc | 58

Lozion | Nov 7, 2016 11:15:48 PM | 55 Yes good point, I've been wondering about this too.

I would also like to see:
- the list of recent comments on the right on all pages not only not on the main page
- the same with recent threads on the left
- a reply button that would standardize the reference to the poster
- a RSS feed for the comments

Posted by: ProPeace | Nov 8 2016 4:57 utc | 59

Michael Hudson says
> Ashcroft: What sort of president then will Hillary Clinton be?
> Hudson: A dictator. She… a vindictive dictator, punishing her enemies, appointing neocons in the secretary of state, in the defense department, appointing Wall Street people in the Treasury and the Federal Reserve, and the class war will really break out very explicitly. And she’ll—as Warren Buffet said, there is a class war and we’re winning it.
> Ashcroft: As in the one percent are winning it.
> Hudson: The one percent are winning it. And she will try to use the rhetoric to tell people: “Nothing to see here folks. Keep on moving,” while the economy goes down and down and she cashes in as she’s been doing all along, richer and richer, and if she’s president, there will not be an investigator of the criminal conflict of interest of the Bill Clinton Foundation, of pay-to-play. You’ll have a presidency in which corporations who pay the Clintons will be able to set policy. Whoever has the money to buy the politicians will buy control of policy because elections have been privatized and made part of the market economy in the United States. That’s what the Citizens United Supreme Court case was all about.
> Hudson: Well, after 1991 when the Soviet Union broke up, it really went neoliberal. And Putin is basically a neoliberal. So there’s not a clash of economic systems as there was between capitalism and communism. What America objects to in Russia is that Americans couldn’t buy control of their oil, couldn’t buy control of their natural resources, couldn’t buy control of their public utilities and charge economic rents and continue to make Russia the largest stock market boom in the world as it was from 1994 through 1998 when there was the crisis. So the conflict is not one of economic systems. It’s simply that America wants to control other countries and keep other countries within the dollar orbit. And what that means is that if the whole world saves in the form of dollars, that means saving by buying Treasury bonds. And that means lending all of the balance-of-payments surplus that Russia or China or other countries look at, by lending it to the U.S. Treasury, which will use that money to militarily encircle these countries and threaten to do to any country that seeks to withdraw from the dollar system exactly what they did to Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan, or now Syria. And other countries are trying to withdraw from this and America says, “Well, we can smash you.” No country’s going to invade any other country. There’s not going to be a military draft in any country ‘cause the students; the population would rise up. Nobody’s going to invade, and you can’t control or occupy a country if you don’t have an army. So the only thing that America can do—or any country can do militarily—is drop bombs. And that’s sort of the equivalent of, just like the European Central Bank told Greece, “We’ll close down your banks and the ATM machines will be empty,” America will say, “Well, we’ll bomb you, make you look like Syria and Libya if you don’t turn over your oil, your pipelines, your utilities to American buyers so we can charge rents; we can be the absentee landlords. We can conquer the world financially instead of militarily. We don’t need an army; we can use finance. And the threat of military warfare and bombing you to achieve things.” Other countries are trying to stay free of the mad bomber, and it’s all about who’s going to control the world’s natural resources: water, real estate, utilities—not a question of economic systems so much anymore.
> Well, President Obama, even though he’s a tool of Wall Street, at least he says, “It’s not worth blowing up the world to fight in the near east.” Hillary says, “It is worth pushing the world back to the Stone Age if they don’t let us and me, Hillary, tell the world how to behave.” That’s a danger of the world and that’s why the Europeans should be terrified of a Hillary presidency and terrified of the direction that America is doing, saying, “We want to control the world.” It’s not control the world through a different economic philosophy. It’s to control the world through ownership of their land, natural resources and essentially, governments and monetary systems. That’s really what it’s all about. And the popular press is not doing a good job of explaining that context, but I can assure you, that’s what they’re talking about in Russia, China and South America.
> There really is no alternative, and that’s the objective of control: to create a society in which there is no choice. That’s what a free market is really all about: preventing any choice by the people except what the government gives them. That’s what the Austrian school was all about in the 1920s, waging war and assassination against the labor leaders and the socialists in Vienna, and that’s what the free marketers in Chile were all about in the mass assassinations of labor leaders, university professors, intellectuals, and that’s exactly the situation in America today without the machine guns, because the population doesn’t really feel that it has any alternative, but has the illusion of choice in choosing either between which is the lesser evil. They get to vote for the lesser evil when it’s all really the same process.

Posted by: mauisurfer | Nov 8 2016 5:02 utc | 60

A pulitzer price winning case for Jill Stein :-)


Posted by: Tobin Paz | Nov 8 2016 5:05 utc | 61

The only real issue here is either war or peace.

Reality dictates, abstaining or voting for anyone but Trump will be a de facto vote for warmonger Hillary Clinton.

As President of the US she has declared her intention of a thermonuclear confrontation with Russia and China.

The entire world and all of humanity hags in the balance of who Americans decide to vote for tomorrow.

Just do the math, it's one or the other, and sleep on it tonight eh!.

Posted by: RayB | Nov 8 2016 5:18 utc | 62

@ mauisurfer

Thanks for the support of my contention that what we are in WWIII about is private finance and the folks that own it and everything else.....and maintain it with unfettered inheritance.

Onward, into the breach!!!!!! Yowwwwwser!!!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 8 2016 5:27 utc | 63

I know it is hard as Westerners not to vote; this duty has been drummed into our collective consciousness. What we need to remember is that Representative Democracy is not popular rule; it is not even democracy (except for five minutes every 3-4 years). All we do is choose the faction we wish to rule us, then we are rocked gently back to sleep until next time. It serves to focus popular movements into parliamentary activity, where people's passion and principle is worn down via factional infighting, and the resultant loss of collective action through the election of individuals. All it does is give the illusion of control, so the sheeple don't break out the torches and pitchforks from cold storage. The best slave is the one who does not know they are even enslaved.

As much as I want a Trump victory, this will not lead to any kind of utopia. Regardless of who is elected, the currents of geopolitics will not divert much, the momentum is too great. Clinton is WWIII, but also will start as the weakest President in US history. Regardless of who is elected out of the Clown and the Crook, the future will look very similar, just the theatrics will differ.

The best vote you can make is a no-vote; a vote against this terrible system. If the voter turnout is low (sub-50%), this de-legitimises whoever is elected. If the voter turnout tanks in the 20%-30% range, the elected can claim no mandate. Remember, whoever you vote for will change nothing; a no-vote could start an avalanche which brings down their rotten house of cards.

Never again in our name, vote against the system.

Posted by: Earthrise | Nov 8 2016 5:36 utc | 64

@ RayB

I don't think we will go directly to thermonuclear war but will continue the battles with proxies to try and regain the "upper hand".

It will be interesting to see if all of this will make it to the UN and then what happens. I see a taking of sides and things like trade embargoes before the folks that own private finance give up or takes us down with them.....probably 3-6 months I am guessing.


I hope not folks. Just breathe and do what you can to enlighten folks about the real issues here....PRIVATE FINANCE and unfettered inheritance.

Let us not vilify the people, just the institutions and support laws about inheritance.....we need to win this by not getting stuck in name calling, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 8 2016 5:42 utc | 65


I have been watching the world turn for 40+ years and wondering if I was going to live to see the day some structural financial change was possible.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 8 2016 5:47 utc | 66

Tobin Paz @ 61

Tip of my hat, your wrote a very good article... really did your homework.


Posted by: jdmckay | Nov 8 2016 5:52 utc | 67

@ 64

What evidence do you have that "sub 50% or a 20 to 30% voter turnout will not be interpreted by the neocon establishment and insane Hillary as anything other than a mandate to go to war, pray tell me? Where I come from we don't vote people in but rather we vote them out, and that's exactly what needs to be done to Hillary tomorrow, for the sake of all humanity.

Posted by: RayB | Nov 8 2016 5:53 utc | 68

@58 alBerto

It has everything. I laughed. I cried. I demand a sequel! And a preemptive recount.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 8 2016 6:14 utc | 69


Just vote your conscience, and if you don't have a conscience, then vote for The Hag, because a Hag in a Sack is worth more than a Tres in the Bush.

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 8 2016 6:40 utc | 70

@68 South African Apartheid was brought down by a voter strike, for one.

A voter strike prevents countries from making legitimate claims about the will of the people. Yes, they'll lie about it like Matt Yglesias living in his own little snot-nosed head, but we don't have to listen to them any more than we would listen to a bunch of well-armed party clowns.

Posted by: Jonathan | Nov 8 2016 6:45 utc | 71


Ok, your guessing that a nuclear war will take at least another 3 to 6 months to materialize, meanwhile tell the crying 13 year old Syrian girl in Aleppo, that's just had her foot blown off, by Clinton's proxy terrorists there, tearfully asking "if it will grow back again?" to just relax as these are only ongoing US proxy wars and nothing for us to be alarmed about. While we sit comfortably on our behinds, to proud to bother and go out and vote for Trump (the only alternative) and doing, whatever is necessary to stop another Clinton civilian massacre being performed in our name and with our mandate around the globe for the next 8 years. Sleep tight tonight, as tomorrow we will see exactly where the American people stand in terms of the leader they select to serve their own self-interests.

Posted by: RayB | Nov 8 2016 7:18 utc | 72

Abby Martin exposes John Podesta's links to the oligarchy and fixer capacity for scandals:

Yes - but we expected that, sure.

However what we didn't expect was the outpouring of evidence suggestive of pedophile rings and occult rituals that the uber-rich and politically connected seem to be indulging in - at the expense of innocent young lives. This stuff is shocking and horrifying and literally unbelievable. And yet the evidence is very disturbing. Certainly a good way to "own" politicians, judges, high ranking officials etc etc to have a secret camera of them at convicted sex offender and billionaire Epstein's "orgy island" etc.

Too much smoke for no fire.
Way beyond sickening!

Posted by: anonymous | Nov 8 2016 7:40 utc | 73

It is shockingly disappointing that MOA, this otherwise intelligent incisive, a deeply intellectual and factual blog's readership exhibit a trait common to overall American anti-intellectual sheeple constituency as Gore Vidal posited decades ago, having no shame expressing their utter confusion and ignorance about one fundamental fact of reality they are facing.

THE FACT: The US elections are a staged political farce with NO MATERIAL IMPACT on the US imperial policies, domestic or international WHATSOEVER. And that's the fact based on rock solid empirical evidences also MOA proliferates that only a mental patient can deny.


Those political puppets, stooges of oligarchy are no alternatives to the calcified imperial system itself, they never have been and they never will. They are new/old faces of the same old 240 y.o. Anglo-American imperial regime based on ancient and modern slavery and they already declared it by submitting to it via pledging to run in this farcical rigged electoral fallacy.

All at the end will openly pledge unwavering support for the regime and their rotten deeply corrupted parties while abandoning their gullible voters.

Supporters of any of these plastic puppets of oligarchy not unlike a cargo cult, are impatient, nervous, excited and scared sitting and waiting before an impregnable curtain of political deceit, lies and manipulation by the ruling elite in front of their wide shut eyes , turning to magic, superstition, appeasement, making up stories, poems out of their incoherent utterances filed with tautologies, innuendos and absurd, begging for mercy or praying for a caprice of good will to save them ultimately in a form of fake, meaningless political turds passing as empty "political" platform promises while blatantly abandoning their unalienable rights to independence, self-determination and democratic system of people’s rule, based on equality in the law, and one voter one vote principle, for a role of a meddlesome spectators to their own execution.

THE FACT: The democratic electoral system worth participating does not exist in the US but none of the candidates would utter this truth as long as they can benefit from the fraud and that includes third parties. If this was a true change or revolution, that we desperately need, honest leaders would not run their campaign within the corrupted system set up by and for two oligarchic parties but they would decry and utterly reject it.

Think people, all the so-called candidates even third party candidates are just nibbling on the behemoth of abhorrent and brutal US imperial power mostly with utterances that they never intended to follow if they wanted to survive terror of the US security apparatus, while peddling the lies about small incremental changes and stealing ours and our children future by asking us to wait, be patient, and begging ruling elite for mercy and may be for some crumbs from an oligarchs' table after they are not able to gorge themselves anymore with our blood sweat and tears.

Unfortunately, this time as well, millions of irrational, desperate and helpless in their daily lives electoral zombies such as those, under a spell of exciting political masquerade, regrettably also on this blog, will be aligning themselves with one or the other anointed by establishment winner [whoever it will be] of a meaningless popularity/beauty contest, in a delusional feat of transference of a fraction of elite's power to themselves just for a second of a thrill of illusion of power, illusion of feelings that something depends on me, that I can make a difference, a delusion of holding skies from falling and by that saving the world common among paranoid mental patients.

And they will continue to authorize their own suicide mission, since even baseless, continually disproved hope of Sisyphus, of any chance of influencing of the political realm via means of begging is the last thing that dies.




Posted by: Kalen | Nov 8 2016 8:21 utc | 74

Looks Like Donald Trump is Jewish

Posted by: Freedomknight | Nov 8 2016 9:00 utc | 75

I sense unfortunately that Clinton will win big, every elite group is behind her:

Clinton: 54%
Trump: 40%
Third candidates: 6%

Anyone else wanna take a guess?

Posted by: Zoom | Nov 8 2016 9:15 utc | 76

it's quite remarkable the ire so many feel towards non-voters(as if voting at this point in time could possibly remedy what ails the Nation). so yeah, you could vote your conscience, and, say, try to build on Ms. Stein's 2% over the next 10 or 20 years, or you could vote strategically(which may also be voting your conscience, hahaha) by not voting and build on the 50% or so who already constitute the largest political group in America. as has been pointed out above a low vote(the lower the better) would delegitimize any central government.

with an illegitimate central government States and even smaller communities would take matters into their own hands under the watchful eyes of the local citizenry. natural leaders would emerge.

i suspect the 'i believe in voting' crowd is part and parcel of the federal tax paying crowd as well. you know, funding the bin laden wars while bitching about them in these here comment sections.

Posted by: john | Nov 8 2016 9:24 utc | 77

The heartland of the US is RED, solid RED.
The neolibcons are printing up their Newsweek mags with Madam President on the cover.
They don't have a clue about how pissed off the people in the "flyover states" are.
Fuck their rigged polls and lying news.
Sure Trump is behind or neck-and-neck . . . Just like we have 5% unemployment.
As long as you don't count the 1/3 of working age people who DON"T HAVE A JOB.
The deplorables can think of 650,000 reasons why Hillary should be in PRISON, even if the FBI can't.
We don't want World War 3 with Russia
We want our factories and jobs back, we would like to spend $1 trillion a year on infrastructure
instead of blowing up yet another Middle Eastern nation.
Fuck Hillary, Fuck the neolibcons, Fuck al-CIAda, Fuck the fascist banksters who eat our children for breakfast.

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 8 2016 9:34 utc | 78

The powers that be won't "allow" anyone to upset the current order..Yes, the people will vote, but it's the counting that matter - and they have control of the counting :)

Posted by: Zico | Nov 8 2016 11:25 utc | 79


It is hard to predict how the process of political collapse will proceed, or how long it will take. But it is possible to predict the end result: there will no longer be an entity called “USA” on the political map and the term “America” will revert to being the name of a continent—the contiguous landmass linked together by American Cordillera, which is a single mountain range that runs from Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego. I made this prediction a decade ago, and I will stand by it for as long as it takes for it to come true. Whether it comes to pass before or after I die, I will die a happy man, secure in the knowledge that I called it correctly

Posted by: john | Nov 8 2016 11:36 utc | 80

@RayB | Nov 8, 2016 12:18:53 AM | 62 "The only real issue here is either war or peace."

Yes, especially that the US has war-based, or "blood economy" (like diamonds).

Interesting tidbits:

Here’s what happened when a Hillary supporting MIT professor decided to analyze her emails…

ABC News Caught Staging Fake Crime Scene » The Event Chronicle

Clinton Is the Most Dangerous Person Alive

Coincidence? Massive solar event expected for - election day? -- Society's Child --

Posted by: ProPeace | Nov 8 2016 12:02 utc | 81

fairleft at 43 --

Do not blow shit up, like the political system, without a clear idea where the pieces will land and how you will put them back together. Crisis would benefit the right, not the left, given the current correlation of class and political forces.

The best result. sadly, would be a resounding win for Mrs. Clinton. As the comment at 11 shows, anything less than a crushing defeat will enable the alt-right and embolden the most reactionary and nativist elements in society.

The notion that worsening conditions will automatically produce progressive revolution is a pipe-dream. Beaten-down folks struggling to survive don't have the time or energy to organize.

Vote your conscience, your hopes. Takingg the long view, I am again voting, as I have for years, for the Socialist Workers Party.

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 8 2016 12:26 utc | 82

rufus @81:

Do not blow shit up ...
The corrupt 'Third Way' Democrats blew up U.S. democracy years ago. "Do not blow shit up" = BOHICA.
The best result. sadly, would be a resounding win for Mrs. Clinton.... I am again voting, as I have for years, for the Socialist Workers Party.
Shameless, unadulterated bullshit.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Vote Trump in swing states. Vote Jill everywhere else.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8 2016 13:03 utc | 83


I am very thankful someone was able to explain why not voting is the proper response to America's election bull feces. I wish I were smart enough to have penned that post.

Non-vote America and take back your personal freedom and power.

Peace and may the new times treat all of MoA well!

Posted by: David Shinn | Nov 8 2016 13:14 utc | 84

Jill Stein for President of the United States:)

Posted by: relament | Nov 8 2016 13:15 utc | 85

The zionists who rule US,and make US the force behind Israels total arrogance and evil,and behind every nation destroying division here in America,hate Donald Trump.
Its a no brainer,purists.
Trump 2016.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 8 2016 13:48 utc | 86

Hey Rufus. - fuck you!

Posted by: DM | Nov 8 2016 14:10 utc | 87

>> even third party candidates are just nibbling on the behemoth of abhorrent and brutal US imperial power

Jill Stein wants to cut the military spending in half. That's not just "nibbling".

Posted by: dumbass | Nov 8 2016 14:27 utc | 88

Tobin Paz @ 61

Just one more observations about your article (I didn't see anything your wrote that was incorrect).

I haven't read KOS in years, could see where it was going (inbred I'd call it) a long time ago. But reading comments to your article, I was amazed... brutal and anal to the extreme. No acknowledgement whatsoever of the conditions you wrote about, and a lot of bull shit claims.

Interesting (in an unpleasant way) the unbending fervor with which every single commenter defends 100% HRC support no matter what... and uses insults and bull shit to justify, the same as the hardcore "vote Trump or die" folks have become here. You could almost swap Trump into Hillary's spots @ KOS (or versa visa here) & the supporting arguments are more or less indistinguishable.

Only real difference I can see, more and more Stein voters chiming in here whereas there nothing but ignorant, dumb 100% dismissal. And that site claims the "progressive" mantle.


Posted by: jdmckay | Nov 8 2016 14:46 utc | 89

Posted by: james | Nov 7, 2016 7:24:39 PM | 40

"malcolm gladwell on the usa election candidates via cbc link

2 quotes '"I think he will be in jail within a year," he told The National's Wendy Mesley in an interview.'

'"To me, the most disturbing lesson about this election is that the United States is a good deal less open to women in positions of power than it would like to pretend that it is."'

This guy Malcom is got his head up his arse.......

Posted by: notlurking | Nov 8 2016 15:00 utc | 90

[VIDEO] Putin - "America is tired of the Elites"

Posted by: Zoom | Nov 8 2016 15:08 utc | 91

Here's a pro Trump/Pence link for those who may want to get into the weeds on voter turnout, what's being reported at the polls, possible rigging, fraud etc. All threads, posted throughout the day, will be comment driven only. The site also breaks down what to expect throughout the day, especially from the media, plus poll closings, electoral college assumptions etc. This site is also predicting what they term a 'Monster Vote' that is, a potential high of 20M new voters with the majority voting Trump.

Zerohedge has also assembled a guide offering poll details plus info on how the market may or may not react to election results.

I thank the dear Lord that the election season is coming to a close with a new phase beginning. I don't think I could bear another week of such spiteful, hate filled ads telling me not to vote Trump b/c he eats babies alive for pleasure or he is a woman hater all the while being flanked by beautiful, strong women. For those across the pond, be grateful that you haven't had to endure the hatefest while watching an evening show. Trust, it's been as ugly as I've ever seen.

Posted by: h | Nov 8 2016 15:24 utc | 92

Jackrabbit @82

Vote Trump in swing states. Vote Jill everywhere else.

Stein write-in. Fortunately for me, my state don't swing. My wife is both black and female, and I don't think a Trump vote would go down so well. Happily, I don't have to put my marriage on the rocks to do the right thing.

Posted by: Martin Finnucane | Nov 8 2016 15:43 utc | 93

jdmckay @67

Thanks. By the comments you would think that I had posted the Trump Manifesto (not that I expected anything else). My view on Democrats has really changed this election. I'm only registered as one for the primaries, but it's time to change.

Posted by: Tobin Paz | Nov 8 2016 16:01 utc | 94

In Alabama (Red/Trump) this morning the polls down the street in the World Church was packed. Lines about 10 deep for ballots, then people crammed to tables to fill the circles with a privacy folder to try to hide your vote. Then a much longer line that wound around to feed into the reader. I've been annoyed in years past because they person making sure the ballot feeds right can see the ballot. Today that guy was coverd up as people fed ballots and he handed out I Voted stickers. At least you could feed your ballot upside-down to hide the political choices. We had around a dozen amendments that didn't make sense unless you read the translation in the newspaper. One encoded right-to-work into the Constitution. Another lets state parts keep their money instead of the state govt taking the money for the General Fund. The ones I talked to in line said they were sick of the election. I told one that at least it wasn't like the one in Yemen where the only choice was the leader.

Posted by: Curtis | Nov 8 2016 16:19 utc | 95

I noticed that the topless anti-Trump protestors at Trump's polling place had "Femen" written on their back ("You were looking at their backs?!"). I wonder if they are really related to Femen? It would make sense, obviously.

Isn't disrupting a polling place a serious federal crime, by the way?

Posted by: RudyM | Nov 8 2016 16:20 utc | 96


The phrase 'raqs-e-bismil', in mystic Persian poetry denotes the passion of the devoted. Literally, it translates as the “dance of the wounded”, the 100,000,000s of mentally wounded jibberwookies who will blissfully waterboard each other and their children with the radioactive Red or Blue Koolaid over the next 4 years, while The One Party of Deplorable Indispensables, the Mil.Gov.Fed.Biz Exceptionata, bleed the prols of $4,000,000,000,000 every April 15th, a bleeding expected to increase like a metastasizing cancer, leaving the 100,000,000s of 'raqs-e-bismillies' pauperized, and their children unable to repay school loans, car loans or medical care (sic) taxes, fees and penalties, an entire nation made slaves in the 18 years since the Soft Coup and 16 years since the Hard Coup on 9/11. Enslaved just . like . that, while the One Party Chosen of Fraud jet-tour around the globe on their guaranteed salaries, their paid-for big houses, their 529 set-aside elite educations, and their golden double pensions for life.

"I can't tell you where all the money went." Benhamin

Let the Great Waterboarding begin!! Arghhlll...

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 8 2016 16:22 utc | 97

jdmckay @88

Dailykos shows how good people can be programmed to do irrational things. There are probably some similarities with the Germans of the 1930's.

I can see now why so many Republicans loathe Democrats (justified or not). I have been a called Trump Troll, Putin Lover, fascist, marxist, etc. In all fairness, if I posted on a site like Zerohedge I would probably get called worse.

What I am seeing is a vicious divide that has been made much worse by the Democrats. Stealing the nomination from Sanders is unforgivable.

If Clinton wins, the real race is about to begin: climate change vs nuclear war. Reality will eventually change people who don't believe in global warming. The reality regarding our foreign policy, Syria, Russia, and China has been so propagandized that I don't see Democrats coming around until it's too late. We are in deep shit.

Posted by: Tobin Paz | Nov 8 2016 16:47 utc | 98

Tobin Paz @ 93 jdmckay @ 88

Good article, shocked by the unanimity of the vitriol in the comments. How very progressive thay are. Corporate hacks, all.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 8 2016 16:51 utc | 99

typo - "they"

Posted by: spudski | Nov 8 2016 16:52 utc | 100

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