Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 19, 2016
Speculation: Trump Promotes NSA Boss Rogers To DNI Because He Leaked The Clinton Emails

If some investigative journos start digging into the issue this story could develop into a really interesting scandal:

Pentagon and intelligence community chiefs have urged Obama to remove the head of the NSA

The heads of the Pentagon and the nation’s intelligence community have recommended to President Obama that the director of the National Security Agency, Adm. Michael S. Rogers, be removed.

The recommendation, delivered to the White House last month, was made by Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., according to several U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

The news comes as Rogers is being considered by President-Elect Donald Trump to be his nominee for DNI, replacing Clapper as the official who oversees all 17 U.S. intelligence agencies. In a move apparently unprecedented for a military officer, Rogers, without notifying superiors, traveled to New York to meet with Trump on Thursday at Trump Tower.

Adm. Michael S. Rogers recently claimed in reference to the hack of the Democratic National Council emails that Wikileaks spreading them is "a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect." He obviously meant Russia.

Compare that with his boss James Clapper who very recently said (again) that the "intelligence agencies don't have good insight on when or how Wikileaks obtained the hacked emails."

Emails of the DNC and of Clinton's consigliere John Podesta were hacked and leaked. Additionally emails from Clinton's private email server were released. All these influenced the election in favor of Trump.

Wikileaks boss Assange says he does not know where the emails come from but he does not think they came from Russia.

Clapper and Carter wanted Rogers fired because he was generally disliked at the NSA, because two big breaches in the most secret Tailored Access Organization occurred on his watch even after the Snowden case and because he blocked, with the help of Senator McCain, plans to split the NSA into a spying and a cyber war unit.

Now let me spin this a bit.

Rogers obviously knew he was on the to-be-fired list and he had good relations with the Republicans.

Now follows some plausible speculation:

Some Rogers trusted dudes at the NSA (or in the Navy cyber arm which Rogers earlier led) hack into the DNC, Podesta emails and the Clinton private email server. An easy job with the tools the NSA provides for its spies. Whoever hacked the emails then pushes what they got to Wikileaks (and DCleaks, another "leak" outlet). Wikileaks publishes what it gets because that is what it usually does. Assange also has various reasons to hate Clinton. She was always very hostile to Wikileaks. She allegedly even mused of killing Assange by a drone strike.

Rogers then accuses Russia of the breach even while the rest of the spying community finds no evidence for such a claim. That is natural to do for a military man who grew up during the cold war and may wish that war (and its budgets) back. It is also a red herring that will never be proven wrong or right unless the original culprit is somehow found.

Next we know – Trump offers Rogers the Clapper job. He would replace the boss that wanted him fired.

Rogers support for the new cold war will also gain him favor with the various weapon industries which will eventually beef up his pension.

Some of the above is speculation. But it would make sense and explain the quite one-sided wave of leaks we saw during this election cycle.

Even if it isn't true it would at least be a good script for a Hollywood movie on the nastiness of the inside fighting in Washington DC.

Let me know how plausible you find the tale.

Comments

Bill Clinton was a fake populist … Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 20, 2016 5:41:19 PM | 72
It begs a question, what is a populist? Is Orange Soda a fake fruit drink? It is a soda, after all, which is supposed to be a mix of a sweetener produced in some way (whatever is cheaper or some marketing consideration), carbonated water (the healthy ingredient) and flavoring additives. If you are after healthy hydration or nutrition, stay away from sodas and do not complain if you drink them.
In a democracy or some approximation of democracy, “populism” is a technique. Some can do it, some do not. From ancient history, one can observe a recurring conflict between those that have a lot and those that have less. For more than 100 years Roman history was in large part about the conflict between Optimates, those who had a lot and OPENLY despised uncultured lower classes, and Populares, mostly aristocrats who were advancing their positions by securing the support of “populus” (that was organized in tribes and had tribunes). Of course, Populares had to have “program planks” that were beneficial to common folks, but at the end, they converted the Republic into the Empire.
Now it more complicated. With mass higher education, you have a lot of cultured poor or middle class, while the ruling class has a lot of members who could not care less about arts, philosophy or science. Thus we have a type of “populism” that seeks common cause on the basis of low education and barring that, low taste (hard to avoid an elite university if your parents are rich, but you can survive high education while preserving tastes more frequent among the masses). And there is another type of populism when you try to convince folks that something is good for them, an elitist populism.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 21 2016 14:44 utc | 101

97;Well his picks so far don’t enthuse the ziomonsters,so that’s a plus.
85;Name your choices for Trumps cabinet?
The pool is all neolibcon,Trump is an obvious outlier,and there are very few choices outside the neolibcon narrative.Mearshimer or Walt?Dennis Kucinich?
Lets wait and see what Trumps policies will be,instead of hysteria?
Again,the MSM doesn’t like his choices,which has to be a plus.
When did Sessions issue that marijuana bad people quote?The times are a changing,and I’m sure that Trump is not anti weed,as he would piss off much of his voters.
Decriminalize all drugs,and crime and violence will decrease.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 21 2016 14:54 utc | 102

@ 85 circe.. circe quote “What bothers me is that people still don’t get it; there’s no difference in the goal between both parties; only in the strategy to get there.” i agree fully. i was trying to communicate that by saying the usa is neo con central, and i see nothing except neo cons in the leadership whether they define themselves as right or left..
@ 87 psychohistorian.. i thought it was fairly obvious i see it that way too, but maybe i don’t communicate clearly enough! thanks either way.
@88 ben.. thanks ben.
@91 william rood.. good comment.. i think most know this, but it is worth repeating.
@96 harry.. thanks harry.

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2016 16:39 utc | 103

james@102
Thank you for assembling the comments with which you agree here. Taking the first one from circe, I’ll disagree because I think there are signs that the people Trump is conferring with have very differnt and changed views from those which we would call ‘neocon.’ Historically the parties do change with the times and as we have seen, the Democratic party morphed into a party of oligarchical and empirical strategies. That party has failed to achieve traction this election. It is scrabbling with its fingernails on the cliffedge of legitimacy, and that way lies the chasm below. I don’t think Republicans, if they have any sense of long term relevancy, will be giving a handup to the Democrats the way the Democrats did to the Republicans.
For, look what then happened to the Democrats when they did that in 2008! They lost, and even though they hung onto the White House, Obama had to become emperor in order to continue with “the program”.
Instead, from the sounds of it Trump will be orchestrating an entirely new Republican party. He’s getting all the input he can in order to do this.
Just speculation, as b says, and everything is that right now. That is the fun of it.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2016 16:56 utc | 104

@103 juliania. thanks! i thought trump had kind of decimated the republican party – well that is what it looked like prior to his win.. now i guess all the same sycophants want to climb on the trump train to gravyland and part of that requires the ongoing decimation of the democrats.. it is hard for me to see much of any difference between all these self serving politicians… they are bought and paid for by big money.. that is who rules the usa know – corporations, wall st and the arms industry being some of the biggest corps of the bunch..
i wonder about the idea how a country goes from a 2 party system that is really a 1 party system, to a different kind of system? the idea of a revolution sounds good in a song, but it would be hellish for the people.. this is probably what is needed, but the idealism for something different always pops up every 4 years..
people nowadays seem to be placated by technology gadgetry.. i am not sure what has to happen to overturn a world order that isn’t serving it’s own people.. maybe it has always been this way? we now have a corporation run world where people, community, and the planet have to suffer the consequences of this insanity, with any number of trade agreements, with the gutting of local communities, war on others and etc. etc. an endless ongoing cycle with no break in sight. i guess i am beyond speculation at this point, but not idealistic enough to think that once every 4 years a vote is going to change much of anything..

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2016 17:26 utc | 105

This 10 minute video provides a very good explanation of Wikileaks procedures.
Former CBS Reporter Exposes Media Lies, Internet Shills & Astroturfing – MUST SEE!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s__qs0cBek
“Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?” J. Rotten

Posted by: ALberto | Nov 21 2016 18:10 utc | 106

You can’t make this shit up:
Trump’s grandfather was booted out of Bavaria for being a draft dodger.
He moved to the Yukon and made a fortune running whorehouses and gambling dens.
His draft-dodger grandson didn’t fall far from the tree, running the same bunko in NYC.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/21/trump-grandfather-friedrich-banished-germany-historian-royal-decree
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?_r=0
And now he’s president, with a penchant for huge tax cuts for the whore mongers,
and a national registry for immigrants and poor people, not unlike another German.
America’s perpetual apocalypse, heading for -$32T by 2024, according to OBM.

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 21 2016 19:26 utc | 107

Breaking Live post of Trump’s Cabinet picks:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/nov/21/donald-trump-mike-pence-appointments-cabinet-candidates

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 21 2016 19:30 utc | 108

Some tweets about Tulsi Gabbard as potential UN ambassador.. not sure how serious that is..

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 21 2016 19:37 utc | 109

Russians would not likely go to Wikileaks to publicize their prize. Gora Diva at 4.
Absolutely.
Russia would never apply to an outside ‘agent’ like that. They would simply sit on them, not even planning to use them as a ‘bombshell’, seeing it as a US internal matter with x? developments, they would ‘hold back’ waiting to see who/when leaks what, and how things pan out, firstly in the US.
Imho the Russians – and many others – possess the entirety of the ‘leaked’ e-mails (note there are many still not available / seemingly scrubbed, phase 3 wikileaks seems to be halted, or I didn’t see it..), nobody is going to exploit that for now, or maybe *ever.*
The material is probably explosive (in what direction one needs to imagine) and revealing it would be a casus belli (see acts about cyber-war being equivalent to real war, all the talk about ‘Russia’ is responsible for the leaks, the content of the leaks is fake/altered by unknowns, etc. Insiders know the Russians have them..!) Speculation on my part of course.
Notice that others, like France, Germany, and Canada have kept mum and are sitting still…no biz of theirs!
I’m not tech savvy but as PaveWay points out @ 6 hacking (e.g.) the Podesta e-mails was obviously child’s play.
These ppl, here the Top Dem apparatus, are so above it all they don’t even bother with ordinary ‘protection / security’ – I have seen this in my personal life.
Part of being ‘at the top’ is considering oneself ‘free’ to use any communication channel (see Kill’s private server) with impunity. Also, ‘loose talk’ or ‘inappropriate actions’ are, consdiered acceptable and unproblematic, as any ‘outsider’ who hears/sees/hacks/guesses anything would not dare to come out with it, it would be too minimal, easily dismissed as insignificant or cray-cray, and shutting down or revenge would be swift in ‘damaging’ cases.
It must be understood that the PTB – those in power, not well defined here – need to manifest their domination in this way, they control communications, the narrative, etc. and all is fine and ‘normal.’
The power they possess must be used, implemented, effective – specially as presented to ‘new’ members who are being sucked in.
Imagine if they (such at DNC, or other faction) acted like underground spies all hiding everything and with secret protocols etc.? How would that work?
They would appear to be sneaky, paranoid, peculiar, underground subversives, not legit. vetted ppl, planning to attack the Gvmt. – which they aim to hold — or having some unawoved agenda. In any case ppl would not understand or accept, and would be largely unable to follow the ‘secret’ procedures.
OK that was just one aspect of the whole story.
paveway— not Seth Rich as ‘leaker’. Imho. No. (Though Assange appeared to hint at it and it makes a seductive narrative.)

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 21 2016 19:43 utc | 110

{NYT} Mr. Trump likened his (5x draft deferment) history to that of Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and other prominent politicians, who also received several deferments. Mr. Trump said he had strongly opposed United States involvement in Vietnam.
“I thought it was ridiculous,” he said. “I thought it was another deal where politicians got us into a war where we shouldn’t have been in. And I felt that very strongly from Day 1.”

Que? So Trump appoints ‘Mad Dog’ Maddux as his Secretary of Defense, whose stated objective is WW3 with Iran, and Trump likes ‘Mad Bitch’ Bolton for his Secretary of State, whose stated objective is WW3 with both Iran and Russia.
BRILLIANT~!

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 21 2016 19:44 utc | 111

There’s a new article in the graun, on a list purporting to be “additional people working on its behalf to establish beachheads in the bureaucracy, preliminary to the full-scale Trump administration invasion of Washington.”
Department of Commerce
Ray Washburne
Employer (current or most recent): Charter Holdings
Funding source: Volunteer
David Bohigian
Employer (current or most recent): Pluribus Ventures
Funding source: Volunteer
Joan Maginnis
Employer (current or most recent): U.S. Department of Commerce (Retired)
Funding source: Volunteer
Social Security Administration
Tom Leppert
Employer (current or most recent): Kaplan, Inc. (Retired)
Funding source: Volunteer
Department of the Treasury
William Walton
Employer (current or most recent): Rappahannock Ventures LLC
Funding source: Volunteer
Curtis Dubay
Employer (current or most recent): The Heritage Foundation
Funding source: Private
Judy Shelton
Employer (current or most recent): Self-Employed Economist
Funding source: Volunteer
Mauricio Claver-Carone
Employer (current or most recent): Cuba Democracy Advocates
Funding source: Volunteer
Federal Communications Commission
Jeff Eisenach
Employer (current or most recent): NERA Economic Consulting
Funding source: Volunteer
Mark Jamison
Employer (current or most recent): University of Florida
Funding source: Volunteer
Small Business Administration
Mary Anne Bradfield
Employer (current or most recent): Accelerated Development & Support Corp.
Funding source: Private
Department of Defense
Greg Gardner
Employer (current or most recent): NETApp
Funding source: Volunteer
Department of State
Steven Groves
Employer (current or most recent): The Heritage Foundation
Funding source: Private
Department of Justice
J. Patrick Rowan
Employer (current or most recent): McGuireWoods LLP
Funding source: Private
Jessie Liu
Employer (current or most recent): Morrison & Foerster LLP
Funding source: Private
Ronald Tenpas
Employer (current or most recent): Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP
Funding source: Private
US Trade Representative
Dan DiMicco
Employer (current or most recent): Nucor Corporation (Retired)
Funding source: Volunteer
Robert Lighthizer
Employer (current or most recent): Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP
Funding source: Private
The list which has also been posted on a drumpf site means nothing to me, I dunno if that is because they are all midlevel functionaries or regional trough guzzlers & lobbyists.
The graun language with it’s talk of beach heads prior to a Washington invasion is pretty full on, the trump mob seem to be coming out all guns blazing claiming determination to ignore the DC cabal should be interesting since once all the shouting is over he’s (trump) gonna hafta deal with all the DC pols.
Maybe it’s all explained in the art of the deal, that this is a pre negotiating tactic to scare the rethug pols on the hill.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 21 2016 20:38 utc | 112

We interrupt our regularly scheduled play-by- play analysis of the speculation on the Donald Trump to bring you this …
Turkish-backed rebels pause battle for al-Bab to launch huge attack on Kurdish forces

Despite advancing to the very near edge of the Islamic State stronghold of Al-Bab, Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army (FSA) factions shifted their attention on Monday and began attacking Kurdish-held villages in the northeastern part of Aleppo province.
Preceded by a massive primarily Turkish artillery bombardment and at least 26 airstrikes by the Turkish Air Force, the FSA stormed Sheikh Nassir village in the early morning hours.
Skirmishes continued until noon when the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) withdrew from the village. As the FSA swarmed through Sheikh Nassir, rebel forces captured three Kurdish fighters who were unable to escape the battle in time.

… now back to non-stop Donald Trump.
Twenty-six airstrikes against the Kurds in Syria by the Turkish airforce. Makes one wonder whose side the Russians are on.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 21 2016 23:40 utc | 113

Trump style
“Donald Trump’s media summit was a ‘f—ing firing squad’”
http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/donald-trumps-media-summit-was-a-f-ing-firing-squad/
Putin style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GsDLrUieJg
(“… and give me my pen back…”)

Posted by: x | Nov 22 2016 1:13 utc | 114

@jfl #113 The Russians are on the same side they have always been on – Russia. I simply don’t understand the insistence some people have that if one side is bad – downright evil as amerika & associated allies have been during the Syrian butchery, the other side must be necessarily ‘good’.
It is perfectly valid, in fact an act rational pragmatism to be supportive of russian involvement in Syria, even while decrying imperialism. That call has next to nothing to do with amerika = bad, russia = good, and everything to do with the need to stop world power from being concentrated into one single cabal.
Russia’s intentions in syria are far from altruistic, although it is difficult to see russia & turkey arriving at & enjoying a consensus for any extended period, if the russians are deliberately allowing turkey to occupy syrian airspace it is most likely that is a temporary arrangement that will be cancelled once the kurds have been euchred – a situation that suits both parties even if some of us are appalled that kurds cop the rough end of the pineapple again – yeah yeah I know they have been aiding and abetting amerika – but at some point it must be acknowledged that kurds have a right to live unmolested by self interested turks, sunnis, persians or pashtu; until that time comes kurds will continue to attempt deals with whatever undesirable comes knocking.
Sitting half a world away from where kurds are trying to carve out a ‘safe space’ as the sjw’s like to call it, and comparing life in 2016 with that of 2000 it may seem the average kurd has lost out, but that presupposes everything would have stayed the same when in fact the shrub creep was always gonna attack Afghanistan & Iraq, that life was gonna be screwed for kurdish & non-kurdish citizens of Afghanistan & Iraq come what may.
I realise that some may conclude that a quick dab of whataboutery will straighten this out. Nah that’s chicken & egg stuff – whoever started it, the jousting between kurds and dominant population causes great suffering for ordinary people on both sides and needs to stop,if for no other reason than the room for exploitation it gives imperialists.
The turkish attack on kurds inside Turkey was sheer cynical scapegoatery and amply illustrates that holding erdogan & co accountable is an imperative if Syria is ever to obtain peace again.
Of course Russia will not see it that way, Russia’s number one priority is in ensuring there is no competing hydrocarbon route into europe; from that point of view the longer turkey is in Syria, the greater the odds of amerikan/turkish rapprochement.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 22 2016 1:26 utc | 115

115 Debtisdead
It’s easy to agree with you up to the point where you start lamenting the fate of the Kurds, and get preoccupied with those damn pipelines.
First of all, gas is peanuts. Chump change. Too cheap to matter much in the big picture. It takes damn long for any long pipeline to repay itself even over more stable ground than Eastern Syria or Western Iraq, or Kurdistan, or Takfiristan. Oil is still the biggest game in town, even at the current depressed prices. I honestly believe that Russians, no matter how altruistic or not, are not there because of the gas pipelines. But, I am getting off topic here.
My point was, you are making an assumption that just because Kurds have had their asses kicked every time they went for secession from country A, independence from country B, or autonomy-and-land-grab-accompanied-with-land-record-forgery in country C, they’ve been trying to look after themselves and not anyone else. So, just because kurds have been fucking LOSERS doesn’t mean they’ve ever been anything more than selfish in their endeavours. And, anyway, after the Hassakah back-stab, why would Putin/Russia give half a flying fuck about protecting Kurds, the backstabbers of their friends Assad and Hezbo, from anyone, let alone Erdo who, as ugly a face as he sports, would be the ultimate goddamn strategic prize if he leaves NATO and joins the Shanghai Pact, whatever the entire outcome of the Syrian affair is (and lemme asure ya’ll Turkey is a far bigger prize for Russia that Syria can ever hope to be – while not saying that Putin will ever abandon Syria if it’s one vs the other)?
To summarize:
Why the hell would either Assad or Putin care to protect Syrian Kurds, who were about to try to violently secede from Syria when they were rudely stopped by an offshoot of the failed Turkish coup, from those same Turks who are prospective new MAJOR allies to Vlad and the biggest slap in the face to the Western Zio-World that it can currently get (short of Vlad securing German alliance, maybe instead)?
It’s almost a rhetorical question.

Posted by: Quadriad | Nov 22 2016 3:38 utc | 116

@115 DiD

1. Russia’s number one priority is in ensuring there is no competing hydrocarbon route into europe; from that point of view the longer turkey is in Syria, the greater the odds of amerikan/turkish rapprochement.
2. The turkish attack on kurds inside Turkey was sheer cynical scapegoatery and amply illustrates that holding erdogan & co accountable is an imperative if Syria is ever to obtain peace again.

I disagree at 1, although Russia certainly wants to sell its gas in Europe I don’t think Russia is stupid enough to attempt a monopoly. But … the longer Turkey is in Syria the greater the odds of American/Turkish rapprochment … I agree there, but think that is not what Russia wants, so I don’t understand why you couple that with your first part.
I agree with 2 and that is why I am questioning Russia’s inaction on Turkish air force activity in Syria. I think that Russia’s number one priority in Syria is the defeat of the USA/KSA/NATO al-CIAduh/ISIS forces which are aimed at Russia and China as well as/after they’re done in Syria. Turkey is forwarding the cause of those forces because it (Erdogan) has dreams of a new Turkish empire carved out of southcentralasia.
More to my point, I am growing tired of all-Trump-all-the-time at MoA. I think your points are mistaken but I’m glad to hear something from somewhere on the struggle that’s going on in the real world. Russia was said (by b) to have established a Turkey no fly zone in Northern Syria and that is obviously seen now not to be the case. So what is going on?
Or is it back to ATAtT.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 22 2016 3:43 utc | 117

98
Trump’s picks are all fairly well known as Israel Firsters and they have already, I’m told, renigged on the Iran sanctions relief, and of course the House is calling for renewed sanctions, which are illegal and therefore an act of war, to seize the foreign assets of a sovereign nation under any pretext, just the same as if the IRS froze your assets because they didn’t like the cut of your jib.
That’s pure folly to engage Iran, but Trump is clearly a wack job from his ‘you’re fired’ meeting with the US media today, acting every day more like a Kim Jong Un, and -$12T in more odious and onerous Fed ‘debt’ riding on his New Caesar actions.
So, eleven hundred men went into the water, three hundred sixteen men come out, and the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway… we delivered the bomb!

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 22 2016 4:06 utc | 118

Here we go again the chicken & egg shit. Kurds have been the whipping boys of dictators eager to distract their majority populations from their own misery for a very long time – centuries. While the invasion of Iraq was an inexcusable act of illegal attack upon a sovereign nation, we cannot forget that Saddam Hussein cranked up hate against Kurdish people as a distraction from the butchery of his inept prosecution of the Iran/Iraq war. Hussein used the chemical weapons sold him by Rumsfeld to use against Iran, against Kurds. He was too gutless to use em on Iran because he knew the consequences of that would huge so he used em on kurds.
Last year when erdogan fared poorly in an election because Turks had become impatient with his promises being delayed until ‘next year’, always next year, the erdogan regime false flagged a bombing and blamed the kurds, who up until then had been trying to achieve their goals – equality under the law and in employment through legislative means.
Kurds have copped the rough end for a very long time and just as people in the ME began to heed the promises of Islam once more after the failure of capitalism via US imperialism, and socialism via russian imperialism, Kurds who had tried any available option to lose their whipping boy status foolishly opted for the only other way they could find, by becoming mercenaries for amerikan empire.
None of this stuff is about right & wrong, good & evil, it is about doing what people need to to stay alive & viable which brings me back to my point that there cannot be peace in Syria, Turkey or even Afghanistan unless kurds are included in the process. Iraq won’t be livable until a range of cultures agree to bury the hatchet and move on – right and wrong is irrelevant to that as it is to Russia in Syria. I support the Russians in Syria but it is silly to ignore the bind Russia will be in if an alternative means of supply of gas to europe is found. Oblamblam & co leaned really hard to try to gets sanctions on Russian gas at the time of the Ukraine bullshit , but the european nations reliant on that gas wouldn’t give a inch, because there was no viable alternative.
If there was an alternative, they would have done as amerika wanted and that would have cost russia big time.
Of course like most things there is no one single reason but the prospective pipeline was what made russian assistance in Syria essential.
Looking at conflicts and not considering the situation of humans on all sides isn’t just sociopathic, it is foolish because ultimately it is the effect upon all human players which determines whether or not a stable society can be engendered.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 22 2016 4:25 utc | 119

@117 JFL
YES I would like to see b’s views on the same. I come here fingers crossed now that we’ll get more perspective on Syria given the ballot box is closed finally. The white helmets posts are interesting but I’m sure most readers here know full well how ridiculously fake they are already (tho that last post was a little more damming than usual truth be told).
This incident near al bab is of particular consequence I figure.

Posted by: FecklessLeft | Nov 22 2016 6:20 utc | 120

@120 fl
b’s not well. We’ll just have to wait till he recovers. Hope he sweats Trump and the election out of his system along with the virus 😉

Posted by: jfl | Nov 22 2016 11:15 utc | 121

Re: Posted by: jfl | Nov 21, 2016 10:43:19 PM | 117

@115 DiD

1. Russia’s number one priority is in ensuring there is no competing hydrocarbon route into europe; from that point of view the longer turkey is in Syria, the greater the odds of amerikan/turkish rapprochement.
2. The turkish attack on kurds inside Turkey was sheer cynical scapegoatery and amply illustrates that holding erdogan & co accountable is an imperative if Syria is ever to obtain peace again.

I disagree at 1, although Russia certainly wants to sell its gas in Europe I don’t think Russia is stupid enough to attempt a monopoly. But … the longer Turkey is in Syria the greater the odds of American/Turkish rapprochment … I agree there, but think that is not what Russia wants, so I don’t understand why you couple that with your first part.

A monopoly? Of course Russia doesn’t want or will get a monopoly. The US is selling shale gas to Europe already and were Russia to lose market share in Europe they would be at the mercy of Chinese & European manipulation on gas.
Of course stopping the pipelines is a big reason why Russia is in Syria.
Why invite a formidable competitor into your best market if you can help it?
I might add – it was said above it takes a long time to pay off the pipelines – maybe so – but that isn’t Russia’s problem.
As soon as that pipeline is built the sale of gas via that pipeline immediately (and even before it is fully built) starts destroying Russian margins in Europe.
It may take a long time to pay for itself – but that is a Qatari problem – not a Russian problem – they’ve already built their pipes!

Posted by: Jules | Nov 22 2016 13:35 utc | 122

114
Looks like Trump is giving His Royal Cousin (HRC) a break:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-22/trump-wont-pursue-charges-against-hillary-shes-been-through-enough
Wasn’t that a key promise Trump made to his fan club?
Wonder if he’ll fly home to NYC every night on AF1, like Sarah Palin flying back to Wasilla every night?? Wonder how many $Bs of our SS that’ll burn through?
Imagine our National Debt after Trump burns through a -$12T infrastructure privatization boondoggle, and cuts $500B out of IRS taxes revenues. It’ll be YUUGE!!
All animals are equal, …except some are more equal.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 22 2016 13:38 utc | 123

The Donald Trump vs the serial lying MSM ratchets up,as he calls them on the carpet.
What’s not to love, purists?
He going to bypass the criminals and tweet policy.You da man Donald,and as to all the utopian idiots,one scratches ones head,and wonders where there minds are at.
It’s a new dawn,morning maniac music.

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 22 2016 14:36 utc | 124

Circe;Bannon didn’t show at the ZOA,although he was invited.
Stop the hysteria,and recognize we are in new territory,one where America comes first.
Man o man o man!

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 22 2016 15:02 utc | 125

More on the stolen election. Ho hum.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-the-us-election-stolen-yet-again/5557930

Posted by: Ron Showalter | Nov 22 2016 15:26 utc | 126

The latest on the Trump front is interesting as “reported” in this link
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069469
The quote that I think is quite interesting in that I suspect it will bring the “kids” with guns out into the streets is:

In a far-ranging interview with the New York Times, the US president-elect was quoted as saying: “I condemn them. I disavow, and I condemn.”
He said he did not want to “energise” the group, which includes neo-Nazis, white nationalists and anti-Semites.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 23 2016 5:52 utc | 127

@117 @120 FL
Stronghold Al-Bab: Whoever Controls Northern Syria Influences the Entire Middle East

The city of Al-Bab is located in the northern part of the Aleppo Province (about 36km northeast of Aleppo, about 26km south of border with Turkey), and remains under ISIS control. Its strategic importance increased after Kurdish and SDF forces took Manbij which had served as an important ISIS logistical node for 2.5 years, helping transfer jihadists from Turkey to Syria and back, and also facilitating oil and arms shipments. The Arabic name of the city translates as “the gate” which is entirely reflected by its current importance.

That’s the intro. I found this to be a very informative article. Covers all the combatants. I recommend it.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 23 2016 12:12 utc | 128

@128
From the article it appears to me that either ISIS will hand over Al-Bab to the Turks and become FSA, or that Russia will have to stop the Turkish Air Force’s attacks on the Kurds, who may then be able to keep the Turks at bay, doing so while waiting for the SAA to have secured Aleppo city enough to venture forth to Al-Bab. Turkey (Erdogan) seems intent on taking Al-Bab though, he’s already thinking ahead to Manbij. Will the Syrian/Russian Air Forces attack Turkish tank columns? I’m sure b will have a more knowledgeable take on the situation, gathering information from more than just one source.
If I were a betting man I’d bet on the Turks taking Al-Bab from ISIS without firing a shot. Not because they are unstoppable, but because there is no will to stop them … on the part of the Russians. If the Turks aren’t stopped … will Syrian be partitioned?

Posted by: jfl | Nov 23 2016 13:41 utc | 129

More on erroneous vote tallies:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/pressure-builds-presidential-recounts-key-2016-swing-state

Posted by: Ron Showalter | Nov 23 2016 14:28 utc | 131

80
Donald Trump’s spox leaked a redux of Trump’s speech tomorrow: My fellow Americans. Welcome to my first briefing. Listen up. The Old Hag is off the hook. She worked hard and needs a break. But for the rest of you losers, no more butterball turkeys, just poke salad, grits and gravy. Now get back to Right to Work, we have some moar bombs to drop for MIC. That is all.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 23 2016 16:40 utc | 132

88
Things could not possibly get ‘better’. We are trapped in the same Triangle Trade end-game as England-America-Africa once was, only 1000 times 1000 times worse, with a fiat currency engine and Petrocene driver, and with nano-trading on the Cloud and two billion robo-slaves in India and China. Things will not only get worse, they will get worse in an accelerating rate, as they have been since the 1998 Soft Coup and the 2001 Hard Coup. But everyone is so Tony Robbins confidenced up and then Red flag Blue flag waterboarded, they are absolutely collandered to that harsh and cruel reality. They can’t see or accept what’s happening before their eyes. It’s all being burned to the ground of credit-debt slavery.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 23 2016 17:09 utc | 133

So where is Assange? How long since he was last seen?

Posted by: John | Nov 23 2016 18:17 utc | 134