Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 10, 2016

Next Steps: Clean Up The Democratic Party, Oppose Trump

People have now learned and accepted that Trump is inevitably the new president of the United States. They try to figure out what that means. We do not know, neither does anyone else. A lot of rumors and speculation are circling of who will take up this or that job in a Trump administration. These rumors are mostly created by those who would like that job, or their personal lobbies. They should be ignored.

The mainstream media is barely able to issue a mea culpa for their extreme pro-Clinton campaign and total failure of reporting the real state of the union. It is now looking for obfuscations like claiming no one could have gotten it right. That is a cheap excuse for incompetence.

It is astonishing that THE media outlet that did the most to shine lights on Clinton is ignored in any of the main stream after-election reporting. I am talking of Wikileaks and Julian Assange who did their very best, under high personal risk, to report the truth about Clinton's and the DNC's utter corruption. A big thank you to them!

Clinton in her very late concession speech, found no words for her culpability or that of the campaign she ran. But the loss of the running is her personal failure. The "bernie bros" and "deplorables" thanked her hostility by not showing up to vote. She had 6 million votes less than Obama while Trump got about the same number as Romney! Instead of focusing on Trump's disastrous economic program she ran a warmongering "blame Putin" campaign. Her economic program was tinkering on the margins of the neoliberal status quo. Certainly not what voters in difficult financial situations, and there are a lots of those in today's U.S., needed to hear. There are now attempts to get Clinton pardoned for breaking classification laws and rules with her private email server as well as for her tax cheating, private slush fund "charity", the Clinton Foundation. If the Democrats want to keep at least some appearance of uprightness they should fight all such attempts. Let her pay a very heft penalty for her shenanigans.

The Democratic party apparatus is corrupt and was completely on Clinton's side. It cost the party the presidency as well as the House and any progress in the Senate. I find it very likely that Sanders would have won the primaries if the party apparatus had acted as neutral as it should have. He had a much better chance of beating Trump. With Sanders as candidate in the general election House and Senate seats would have been easier to keep or to win. There is an urgent and thorough cleanup needed in the party from top to bottom. Sanders should be given the lead of the party and be tasked to again win a majority in the House and/or Senate in the 2018 midterm election.

Trumps true program will now come to the fore. A lot of stuff he said during the campaign will soon be forgotten. His economic program is a repeat of Reaganomics with a dose of isolationism in trade. How that is going to work out with the pivot to Asia and countering China is a mystery. His stand against Muslims was fake, as he let the embassies of the Gulf states know early on.

The military will get more money for lots of funny programs. That is nothing new. It just build some $7.5 billion a piece battleships solely for their new, very special guns which now will not be used because their special ammunition is, at $800,000 a shot, too expensive. A total waste of money but at least it paid for some good jobs. (More jobs could have been created with that money in more important, non-military programs.)

Trump will cut taxes for big enterprises and the rich. He will cut social programs. The general budget will go deep into red. In a few years he will have to, just like Reagan, increase taxes to regain some budget balance.

His campaign unleashed a new wave of racism. Racism had not vanished - indeed it was very much in the open during Obama's time. But open hostile incidents against "the other" will probably increase. It will be difficult and take some time to reign it in again.

It will be important to oppose Trump as much as possible. He is a somewhat megalomaniac and he currently has party majorities in both houses. He will have to be taught that not everything he tries is good or even possible. Trump will want a reelection and another four years as president. He can face opposition on the ground, from people who voted for him, if those people can see a plausible alternative. Clintonian tinkering on the edges of the status quo is no such alternative. There needs to be broad stroke economic policy, plausible and explainable, that offers a better world to them. If the Democrats, or a third party, can develop and present such a program there is good chance that the era of Trump will be a short unremarkable chapter in the history books.

Posted by b on November 10, 2016 at 19:09 UTC | Permalink

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Good analysis although I would point out that avoiding Clinton's strategy for bringing on WWIII is worth a large sigh of relief despite the shortcomings of Trump in other regards. Rapprochement between the US and Russia is hugely important for the peoples of our two countries as well as for the people of the Middle East. If, and this is a huge if, Trump keeps his "let's stop overthrowing governments" position intact it will be a huge benefit, a larger one than the selfish damage the US economy may take. It's also possible, although again hard to tell, that he will keep his promises to invest in infrastructure--which is desperately needed and could provide good jobs.

But agree that civic minded people should keep pressure on Trump to stay on the straight and narrow, as they should with any US president. Unfortunately, what we are getting instead is whining from Democrat faithful/ideological captives about how sexism cost the corrupt neocon/fake liberal Hillary Clinton her long promised victory.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Nov 10 2016 19:24 utc | 1

His stand against Muslims was fake, as he let the embassies of the Gulf states know early on.

I would be extremely cautious when referring to ANY Arab media in relation to US policies, especially to those who still assume that Pence, who is nothing more than run-of-the-mill semi-neocon absorbed into Trump's team for purely tactical reasons, will have any serious say on Trump's foreign policy. I simply do not buy this BS--the scales of Trump's and Pence's personalities, not to speak of administrative positions, are simply incomparable. But the next phrase killed it for me:

Trump’s lack of foreign policy experience

I would say that Trump's "lack of experience" is in no way scarier than the same lack of both Clintons, W and the last guy, who managed to learn absolutely nothing in his long 8 years as POTUS.

Evidently AlArabia journo also missed a simple fact, that Repubs got their majority, including victories where Dems were projected to win only thanks to Trump and his campaign. Both houses' repubs owe Trump a great deal and while bargaining is inevitable--it is Trump who has much stronger hand than anyone in Senate or The House. We don't even know for sure at this stage who will be in Trump's national Security Team and if General Mike Flynn makes it there we may expect very interesting developments.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Nov 10 2016 19:35 utc | 3

b suggests "Sanders should be given the lead of the party and be tasked to again win a majority in the House and/or Senate in the 2018 midterm election."

IMPOSSIBLE. Sanders has been an Independent his entire political career albeit he caucuses with the D's. Add to that, if you read any of the WikiLeak emails regarding the angst in the Clinton campaign regarding his staying into long after she 'won' the primaries, one would never suggest such an idea. The Clinton machine may have lost but they haven't left the building and they have little intention to.

Posted by: h | Nov 10 2016 19:41 utc | 4

Good stuff b. A good, balanced, fact based article. There is no denying the Democrats sh1t the bed on this one.Sander is to old to roll again and Clinton isn't going to give up power over the party even if she figures out she can't run again. What both parties desperately need is some younger blood.

There needs to be an investigation of the Clinton foundation, but before Republicans pat themselves on the back to much remember DJT has a charity as well and it hasn't been playing by the rules either. He just hasn't had the juice to get paid by the Saudis the way the Clintons have. That is till now. I doubt suddenly sucking up to the Saudis, now that he has won, is a coincidence.

Posted by: BraveNewWorld | Nov 10 2016 19:42 utc | 5

Democratic opposition to Trump? LOL! If Democrats have proven anything, it's that they are incapable of functioning as an opposition party. As they did in 1981 after Reagan got elected and 2001 after Bush43, I expect Democrats to roll over to have Trump rub their bellies, then stand aside an appease him in every way possible.

Certainly their will be some Democrats who will oppose Trump--the same ones who often found themselves disagreeing with Obama's eagerness to cut Social Security--but the party apparatus will be dominated by appeasers, the same people who supported Hillary.

Posted by: JohnH | Nov 10 2016 19:46 utc | 6

Well b

“Clean Up The Democratic Party”
Ironic. Bill Clinton started the transformation of the Democratic Party and Hillary arranged the funeral. What a pair, never to build only destroy.

“On Trade”

”His economic program is a repeat of Reaganomics with a dose of isolationism in trade. How that is going to work out with the pivot to Asia and countering China is a mystery. His stand against Muslims was fake, as he let the embassies of the Gulf [.]

Promises on the campaign trail are always soon ignored. Some of Trump’s are being taken seriously.

In my comment in the previous post:

Trudeau called Trump on Wednesday night – Oh my

Ottawa offers to renegotiate NAFTA in effort to warm ties with Trump, a gesture of goodwill….

Re: China. China is said to be buying up Hollywood. Perhaps they will be invited to invest and restore the abandoned factories. Reverse takeover.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

There is one of Trump’s promises I hope will not be kept:

The promise to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Free the Palestinians.

Posted by: likklemore | Nov 10 2016 19:49 utc | 7

Isn't premature to see Trump as a failed president? The MSM who demonized him as a candidate with the hope he will fail are doing the same now to make him fail as a president. The MSM was wrong, it may be wrong again.

Trump has surrounded himself with smart personalities over the campaign and he succeeded when no one though he would.
It is expected that he will pick some brains to help him in the dark forest of foreign politics that he does not know.

Trump's Eleven: President-Elect Decides Who Can Help Make America Great Again

Trump's priorities are US internal security, making lucrative commercial deals and increasing business inside the USA. He is not interested in climate change, or imposing human rights or democracy anywhere in the world.

Let's see if these new set of priorities implemented the hard way will be more successful than Obama's soft touch..

Posted by: virgile | Nov 10 2016 19:58 utc | 8

This is very naive b.

The Democrats believe that their sheep have nowhere else to go. And that natural disdain for Trump's agenda will bring stray sheep back.

And the Democrats also retain a tight grip on MSM.

They will continue with their crony 'Third Way' shenanigans until they are utterly defeated. Such a defeat can only occur via the rise of an independent movement or third party.

Hillary will remain the head of the Party at least until she can cut an immunity deal or get a Presidential pardon.

Sanders and Warren have completely discredited themselves. Sanders could've started a Movement. He didn't. He could've refrained from endorsing Hillary - especially after Hillary 'promoted' Debra Wasserman Shultz for having colluded with the Hillary campaign. But he endorsed her anyway.

In fact, Sanders was probably in on it. His cozy relationship with the leaders of the Democratic Party, his pulling of punches, and his eventual endorsement of Hillary scream "sheepdog!"

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 10 2016 20:07 utc | 9

Trump looked DEPLORABLE today. I don't know if he wants to be president.. He just had an obsession with winning which saw him go through to the end.

He might be a worse rectal puppet than Obama, although his narcissism complex might kick in if he feels like he's being taken advantage of. Beyond that, my dad told me that there's much money that the rich intend to inject into the economy, since Trump is of their kind

The mass demonstrations might become a regular thing

Be sure to maintain your sense of gallows humor - it is only the end of the beginning for this circus

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 10 2016 20:12 utc | 10

Being in Europe I can tell that the media pundits, political elites are crying like babies now - they havent grasped what happend yet, they wanted their pro-war, neoliberal Clinton to win, still Trump is somehow considered the warmonger and dangerous one? They live in a fairytale and I wonder if they will ever wake up?

Posted by: Mannie | Nov 10 2016 20:13 utc | 11

Being in Europe I can tell that the media pundits, political elites are crying like babies now

As much as it pains me to say this, but these are not just pundits and elites. Large portions of European population, percentage wise--much larger than in US, are totally brainwashed and the trend is disturbing as of now. Albeit, Brexit gives some hope.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Nov 10 2016 20:22 utc | 12


The mass demonstrations might become a regular thing

As long as they are confined (which they are) to the downtown and campus areas in some notable US cities such as Chicago, LA, SF, which long ago became nothing more that cloaca--it is fine. Most of productive and normal, I would add, people who are not hipsters or financial consultants, live beyond city limits of those locations, plus they don't have time for protesting. You know, work, family, making honest buck...

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Nov 10 2016 20:29 utc | 13

Butthurt japanese worried that Trump wont warmonger

"What we [Japan, the US] have to do is to solidify our forces to halt the imperialist type of approach China is taking right now," the Japanese academic stated.

Read more:

Posted by: Mannie | Nov 10 2016 20:37 utc | 14

I'm thoroughly entertained at the drubbing the utterly corrupt Democrats took. I live in the San Francisco area and - a life long progressive of the Thomas Paine ilk - am nearly in tears of laughter at the apoplexy of the self righteous left.

The thing I realized this year is that the "left" has no moral center. It's all about being on the winning team and making sure nobody has hurt feelings. And if your feelings are hurt, then lash out in unbridled anger in your need for diversity and inclusion of the right people - not those filthy deplorables. But there's not one iota of thinking through how the Democrat Party completely betrayed it's 20th Century pact with the working class. There's no self reflection over how the "left" became synonymous with War, trileralism, the destruction of the middle class and the willful failure to invest in the capital infrastructure of the country. Nope, they all wanna be Democrats and who the hell cares that the Democrats have been assimilated by the forces of greed and selfishness.

So fuck 'em and their crocodile tears. No matter what Trump does, the road to hell is gonna be a bumpy one and I for one am thrilled that the Clintons have been thoroughly repudiated.

Posted by: Shh | Nov 10 2016 20:39 utc | 15


Yes unfortunately you are right, its quite scary to see how brainwashed europeans are concering an the US. Absolutely crazy and show the result of western brainwashing propaganda being used in the MSM.

Posted by: Mannie | Nov 10 2016 20:39 utc | 16

Would Bernie have prevailed over Trump?

Posted by: chet380 | Nov 10 2016 20:40 utc | 17

Oh, yea - I wanted to agree with the earlier poster about Bernie.

He completely abrogated any claim to leadership when he caved to Schillary. In one of the Podesta email's there's a reference to the DNC having some leverage over him. I wonder what that could be? Pedophilia? a penchant for drinking the blood of Ukie children?

Whatever it is, it's no small thing to have him roll over and shake so pathetically. I wouldn't follow him to a free ice cream at this point.

Posted by: Shh | Nov 10 2016 20:41 utc | 18

Hey b, here's the Morning Joe crew beating up the same rag you do. They are pointing out their distaste for Wed headline -

9 - @jackrabbit said "Sanders and Warren have completely discredited themselves. Sanders could've started a Movement. He didn't. He could've refrained from endorsing Hillary - especially after Hillary 'promoted' Debra Wasserman Shultz for having colluded with the Hillary campaign. But he endorsed her anyway."

"In fact, Sanders was probably in on it. His cozy relationship with the leaders of the Democratic Party, his pulling of punches, and his eventual endorsement of Hillary scream "sheepdog!""

Here's what I wrote to a distraught Sanders voter today -

You may or may not be aware of this, but as for Bernie, he made a very bad deal with the shedevil at the start of the primary season and his voters, at least on the internet, didn't take to kindly to it once exposed. As you know, WikiLeaks pounded the electorate for weeks with the hacked Podesta emails. Lots of backroom deals have been exposed including ones b/w the Sanders and Clinton campaign. One such deal explains why Sanders didn't attack Hillary more mightily on any of her shortcomings, switcheroos, flip flops but most especially on the FBI investigation into her homebrew server. The two campaigns agreed to not insult or tear down the other candidate. This was a legal agreement if I recall correctly. Well, for a Sanders that would be super easy to agree to b/c his closet isn't full of lies, secrets and illegal mischief, but Hillary's closet? Well, let's just say Sanders had an abundance of material from which to expound upon but he chose to tie his hands."

"These docs will likely become part of the record informing the court in the lawsuit brought by his voters. I predict they will win, handsomely, because it appears Sanders, unwittingly or not, participated at some level within his own demise. Had the DNC not anointed Hillary long ago as the 2016 nominee, Sanders would easily have won on Tuesday IMHO given the momentum he would have carried from the primary into the general. He made a bad deal which cost him and his voters the WH."

Posted by: h | Nov 10 2016 20:51 utc | 19

Here's the plan. He looks serious...

Posted by: dh | Nov 10 2016 20:59 utc | 20

@13 yeah - as long as they are far away from where I live I'll continue to find 'infotainment' in all the mayhem. It's a great companion viewing to WWE, UFC and boxing

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 10 2016 21:01 utc | 21

With all due respect to b and MoA, please stick to providing us military information and analyses (which I find to be an excellent source on this site) and lay off speculating about politics. And "the selfish damage the US economy may take." of which you appear to lack any real in depth knowledge of. In short, it's American imposed "Free Trade" deals and Neo liberalism, masked as "democracy" that's actually imperialism imposed by the globalist (read international bankers and corporations) that's a treat to the sovereignty of, not only the countries of the entire world, but to the US nation itself. For the sake of the world America needs to disengage and "isolate" by way of a "New Deal". Concentrate on and mind it's own business of rebuilding a crumbling infrastructure, making jobs again and taking care of the social affairs of it's own citizens, which are falling into third world conditions thanks to a cartel of internationalist financiers and bankers that seek to impose a "new world order" by destroying the sovereignty of every nation state including that of the USA. Trump, if nothing else is a patriotic American nationalist, that intends to take America back from a treasonous globalist cabal. So give the guy a break eh and a chance to try and do what he's promised. Because it's his life that he's put on the line and chances are that if he follows thru on any of his election promises, he'll soon be joining JFK and his brother's on the other side, all while we sit comfortably on our behinds here playing critic and keyboard warriors.

Posted by: RayB | Nov 10 2016 21:03 utc | 22

Trump in fact received 1.2 million fewer votes than Romney. He won because Clinton received 6 million fewer votes than Obama. What a triumph for our clapped out democracy!

Posted by: Gareth | Nov 10 2016 21:08 utc | 23

"Clean Up The Democratic Party"

b, here we disagree 100% the old dying DNC corpse should be left in the street for all to spit and pee on. I'm not alone. Million’s diehard progressive, independent and leftist abandoned their bases and voted for Trump, showed their deep anger not only on Hillary but the DNC. Trump gains about 20% more Latinos and Blacks votes compare to Mitt Romney in 2012.

For those who feel cheated, now rioting against Trump show the cycle repeating again - the 70s during the Vietnam's war and during GW Bush 8-yrs when the DNC continually harassed Bush and Republicans especially in the House.

I can't bring myself vote for Trump, Libertarian or any party, end up voting Dr. Jill Stein. You are WRONG, encourage duopoly.

For now, we dunno which direction Trump heading... there is good and bad news. I reserve judgement. Having say that, I against those now protesting and rioting against Trump, these are the same people that voted for Obomo and deserve it!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 10 2016 21:16 utc | 24

"Incompetence" of the MSM is putting it several categories too mildly.

These "journalists" have been proven to be utter waste of infancy, parental education effort (any, although this is a big assumption, considering the final outcome), and entire reincarnations.

Posted by: Quardiad | Nov 10 2016 21:17 utc | 25


"It is now looking for obfuscations like claiming no one could have gotten it right. That is a cheap excuse for incompetence."

I think one could go farther and say that the MSM is now forced to backpaddle after shamelessly jockeying for position in the Clintonian regime. IOW not just incompetence, but industry-wide collusion. I pity the poor idealistic journos who traded away their most valuable currency, i.e. credibility and respect for truth, for nothing. Jonah Goldberg is cracking jokes on CSPAN and they are funny.

So, the US MSM is a huge joke, and imo the angst felt in Europe is only a derivation of the grip the global neocons have on the Western block. Poor Hollande sees his arms sales going down the tubes. Can they really explain their blindness to the fact that the empress-to-be has no clothes, despite their passionate glorification of her wardrobe? I think not.

Posted by: stumpy | Nov 10 2016 21:19 utc | 26

# 9 & 24

I second that the demodogs party need to have stake through little heart.

Posted by: jo6pac | Nov 10 2016 21:22 utc | 27

@9, @18 That is naïve thinking.

Sanders ran against Clinton, and he lost. Get over it.

Sure, he was running in a rigged-race. He was. Get over it.

But once he did lose he had absolutely no chance of reversing that result, and so he had no sensible choice but to suck it up.

"Sanders and Warren have completely discredited themselves. Sanders could've started a Movement. He didn't."

"He completely abrogated any claim to leadership when he caved to Schillary."

Nonsense. If he had staged an insurgency then the story of the hour now would be that it was Sanders' treachery that cost the Dems the Presidency, the Congress and the Senate.

Not Hillary, who would have won if Sanders hadn't gone all ape-shit.

And everyone would believe that excuse because... come on... Trump?!?!?

Great. Way to go. That would have been a really smart move from Sanders.

He did the right thing: he attempted to beat Clinton fair and square, even if it wasn't a fair fight. He lost, and once he lost he fell in behind the winner so that he could never be accused of disloyalty.

THAT was the smart play, because he can now go around the Democrat corridors saying "I'm not to blame for any of this. But I know who are....."

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 10 2016 21:24 utc | 28


Unidentified Speaker

Unidentified Speaker

Posted by: stumpy | Nov 10 2016 21:25 utc | 29

In the macro scheme of things, this was a vote against globalism and for national sovereignty. Globalism has cost the workers of the US economy their livelihood. It was always the economy, apparently Trump never once lost that focus, and nor did his voters.

The US with its crumbling infrastructure is replete with shovel-ready projects. Obama blew some smoke about stimulus money, but the street never saw it. If Trump could throw a trillion in twenties straight to the street, the US economy would jump-start like a hot-rod catching second gear. I don't know if he intends such a thing. I have no doubt that he understands this in his bones.

Even hemmed in by a poisoned establishment, it would be so easy for the executive to change the economy, and actually to bring the jobs home, as the phrase goes. China has no use for them anymore. The new pivot to Asia lies in trade.

I find b's take on Trump as a net cost to the US economy odd, and unlikely. Gutting social programs is what's been happening, and what would have continued anyway, and may still. But getting money velocity raised up from its current stalled level (lower than the Great Depression) is what must happen. I greatly agree with the themes presented by RayB @22.

All Trump has to do is feed the economy with some good socialist injections of direct government investment, and he's won. It has always been the economy.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 10 2016 21:28 utc | 30

@Shh | Nov 10, 2016 3:39:05 PM | 15 & 18

I live 4-hrs drives in the Central Valley from SFO. Same wavelength, fully concur both posts and Bernie Sanders.

....So fuck 'em and their crocodile tears.... I reserve judgement Trump, the roads ahead will be no better than GW Bush, maybe more difficult depending whether he's for regime change and warmongering.

BTW I'm no Republican a life long pacifist..

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 10 2016 21:36 utc | 31

7 - great observation...

“Clean Up The Democratic Party - Ironic. Bill Clinton started the transformation of the Democratic Party and Hillary arranged the funeral. What a pair, never to build only destroy."

While Grieved at 30 nails it by stating "It has always been the economy."

I'll never forget Stephanopoulos selling the winning narrative for the first Clinton '92 run on "It's the economy stupid" and can't help but wonder how these two, Bill and Hillary, with way more dough and staff were oblivious to this fact a mere 24 years later.

Posted by: h | Nov 10 2016 21:46 utc | 32

I'm a senior, life longs a pacifist. Willing to change my position if Trump failed to put Hillary in jail. Hillary and Obomo must be put on trial for crimes against humanity and corruptions.

Now, waiting if Obomo pardons Hillary and himself. If he pardons Hillary and himself. I'll be on the street for the first time in my life either in SFO or Central Valley!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 10 2016 21:50 utc | 33

h | Nov 10, 2016 2:41:32 PM | 4

The Clinton machine may have lost but they haven't left the building and they have little intention to.

I tend to agree with you because I strongly suspect that Hillary Clinton will want to stand again (and lose) in 2020.

Posted by: Ghostship | Nov 10 2016 22:05 utc | 34

Typo @ RayB # 22

Should read as "that's a THREAT (NOT TREAT) to the sovereignty of, not only the countries of the entire world, but to the US nation itself.

Posted by: RayB | Nov 10 2016 22:12 utc | 35

Edward Snowden gives address on US election result – Watch Live

Posted by: Mannie | Nov 10 2016 22:19 utc | 36

@8 -- "Trump's priorities are US internal security, making lucrative commercial deals and increasing business inside the USA. He is not interested in climate change, or imposing human rights or democracy anywhere in the world."

Replace word "Trump" with Putin and "USA" with "Russia" and you have the new pragmatic world agenda.

@9 -- Sanders is a flop and was probably in on it, imo. Policies sound good (albeit too much like Obama's little BS pre-election spin). He's a Jew looking for a goyim Pharaoh to take the real heat. Had his chance; failed the test; next please ...

The EU poodles are going to be the new centre of pain. Russia off-side and orientating to the east SCO; NATO costs escalating & German banks failing; zero independent policy and refugee identity crisis emerging; right-wing reactions emerging (France in the lead); and with Trumpland looking to pass on all the costs plus some ... and Turkey is the geopolitical fault line to watch with its neo-Ottoman 'emperor' in the control room.

Posted by: x | Nov 10 2016 22:24 utc | 37

The Democrans and the Republicrats are two sides of the same oligcarchic / coprorate control. In this election, both sided against Trump as a reaction to his (potential) threat to the status quo. They foster token differences to give the semblance of choice, but that is all it is. The US is a single party state - the wealth party.

Posted by: Yonatan | Nov 10 2016 22:27 utc | 38

@Mannie | Nov 10, 2016 3:37:25 PM | 14

Are you implying that Japan and Amerika should invade China again. Let me assure you China will flatten Japan, for her wartimes atrocities and installed a puppet emperor in Manchuria...

She is no piece of cake today, even without Russia Federation she can take on Amerika and Japan if force upon. It’s WW3 whether you like it or not. Trump is not that stoopid!

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 10 2016 22:31 utc | 39

Remember this:

{quote} Strategic hedge simple score voting can be described in one simple sentence: Strategically bid no vote at all for undesired candidates (ignore them as though they did not exist), or strategically cast from five to ten votes for any number of candidates you prefer (up to some reasonable limit of, say, twelve candidates), and then simply add all the votes up.

Both IRV-style and approval voting methods suffer from the blind hurdle dilemma, which can be overcome with the hedge voting strategy. An example of usage of the hedge strategy, presuming the (most famous) case of a "leftist" voter, would be casting ten votes for Ralph Nader, and only eight or nine "hedge votes" for Al Gore. This way, the voter would only sacrifice 20 or 10 percent of their electoral influence if Nader did not win. {end quote}

(This is the ONLY alternative that can truly effectively disrupt the entrenched two-party system.)

Hillary's obsession with provoking Russia (and WW-III) was what forced me to vote for Trump. My best friend is not speaking to me now!!!

I did send the following to Trumps "team":

{quote} As far as I am concerned, the most important thing Trump can do right now is name Cynthia McKinney as Secretary of the Interior. This office is at a very high rank, yet this secretary can easily hire experts to deal with its technical details, while she handles the political machinery. This would put McKinney within hearing range of President Trump. She could offer a countervailing voice among all the neocon officials that Trump will be surrounded with. {end quote}

I sent it to:

Keeping fingers crossed.

Posted by: blues | Nov 10 2016 22:35 utc | 40

Yeah, Right @28

Get over it... Get over it...
The primary was rigged in multiple ways. That is not something that anyone should just accept. Except on planet BOHICA.
Nonsense. If he had staged an insurgency then the story of the hour now would be that it was Sanders' treachery that cost the Dems the Presidency, the Congress and the Senate.
He didn't have to "lead an insurgency". He just had to retain some integrity and dignity by NOT ENDORSING!! But he douldn't do that.

There were Republicans that wouldn't endorse Trump. But no Democrat is allowed to NOT line up behind the Democratic Party's chosen one? Even after DNC-Hillary collusion? C'mon.

He did the right thing: he attempted to beat Clinton fair and square, even if it wasn't a fair fight. He lost, and once he lost he fell in behind the winner
You are in the wrong place for pushing that crap. This is not MSM.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 10 2016 22:58 utc | 41

@22 RayB

I agree with your excellent summary of our problems ... but I cannot find any reason to believe in Trump as their solution as you do.

I'll have to wait and see.

@24 JS

I agree with your prescription for the so-called Democratic Party completely. Now's the time to drown it in the water in the gutter it's lying in.

@25 Q

I agree with you as well ... complicity, not incompetence. Just as with Obama, the so-called Democratic Party and the TNCs.

@26 Stumpy

I agree here too. "no one could have gotten it right" ... the same line Hillary used to cover her ass after her support of the shocking, awful invasion and occupation of Iraq.

I still believe that the surprise, delight, and natural exuberance we all experienced at the defeat of Hillary and the neo-liberal machine is fostering unfounded optimism over Donald Trump's imagined performance as POTUS. I duly note that Noirette was not surprised, and maybe b himself was not either.

I will be more surprised and delighted if Trump turns out to be the man you all hope he is.

I've got to admit that b is spending much more time on the American election and now on American politics than I ever imagined he would. Everyone is covering this. Imagining the future. No need for b to waste his talents here. No one can uncover undiscovered, or willfully ignored, facts about the actual present like he can. Just my opinion, of course.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 10 2016 23:10 utc | 42

Anyone who has even glanced at 'The Apprentice' will have discerned that trump is a rather pedestrian conventional thinker altho he does havea lot of energy.
I cannot see him finding a way to resolve the two opposing dynamics in his platform. One to return prosperity to ordinary shit-kicking amerikans and two, to ease back on the violent imperialism of the last 70 years.

Amerika only got rich by helping itself to everyone else's stuff, it is farcical to imagine that exceptionalism is a fact and that nation can become 'great' again just by rejigging the machine.
Buy low sell high the first tenet of the entrepreneur but buying low has always meant stealing - if amerika has to pay the same price as everybody else for raw materials, it cannot possibly sell its goods for less than the competition.
Sure protectionism can assist the domestic market but relying entirely on domestic trade is the commercial equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs.
Yet the cost of maintaining the empire is too high and can no longer be sustained. amerika cannot imitate it's competitors as it already made the shift from a low wage rural based economy into a high wage manufacturing economy in the 1930's & 40's, trump's voters want a $40 an hour gig with full benefits and they want it now, they won't accept a world where they begin from scratch again.

I have spent some time considering this over the years and reached the conclusion that while it may not be possible to ensure everyone gets everything it is possible to help build a system where everyone gets the basics - somewhere decent to live and enough good food to feed the family.
But that wouldn't extend to a new car every 2 years and new phone annually or whatever is the current must have.
In other words the only way that a post industrial society can be made stable & fair is if the population agrees to reject consumerism.
Consumerism has been indoctrinated into the lifeblood of amerikans even more than racism has been - of course it would be possible to turn it around I reckon all modified behaviours can be remodified, but does anyone seriously imagine d trump is the man to do that - even if he shared this outlook?

Posted by: Debsisdead | Nov 10 2016 23:22 utc | 43

"The Clinton machine may have lost but they haven't left the building and they have little intention to." The establishment Dems are just as vulnerable for a progressive DNC takeover as they were after Kerry lost the 2004 election (or failed to challenge the Ohio Diebold theft). Hillary's establishment Dems won't challenge any of this years election "irregularities" in swing states either -- because only "conspiracy theorists" question such things. So, accepting the mantle of "loser," she'll be weaker against an internal party challenge. Bernie is already backing Keith Ellison to take over the DNC. While some Greens and Independents may consider Bernie a sell-out, he still has fierce support from many progressive Democrats.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Nov 10 2016 23:32 utc | 44

Tensions and Tantrums thrown at the DNC staff meeting. Who will succeed Donna Brazile?


Keith Ellison, Howard Dean offered as possible DNC chairs as Democrats seek to regroup

“In the wreckage of Hillary Clinton’s unexpected loss, liberal lawmakers and advocacy groups have started plotting a major overhaul of the Democratic National Committee, with the aim of using the staid organization to reconnect the party with working-class voters it lost to President-elect Donald Trump.

Much of the talk since Tuesday’s election has focused on selecting a new chairman, with the most frequently mentioned successor being Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), a leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus who backed the primary bid of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

On Thursday afternoon, former Vermont governor Howard Dean (D) offered his service for a second tenure as DNC chairman, saying on Twitter: "The dems need organization and focus on the the young. Need a fifty State strategy and tech rehab. I am in for chairman again."[.]
In a sign of tension at the DNC, a staff meeting there was interrupted Thursday by a staff member who stood up and blamed Trump’s win on Brazile, the Huffington Post reported.”

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
They never learn. Into the wilderness they go.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

@ h 32 Thank you; it’s a nice attention

@ Ghostship 34

I strongly suspect that Hillary Clinton will want to stand again (and lose) in 2020..

IMHO, there are the health issues so Hillary may not make it to 2020. It is proffered she delayed her concession speech on Tuesday night because she was negotiating a pardon.

A pardon will not absolve her. Wikileaks promised there are 6 more tranches before December 26, 2016. The Clinton Foundation and the Clinton name are tarnished. Irredeemable.

Hillary was fond of reminding; ‘when we left the WH we were dead broke.’

Email revelations are the C F Foundation (”CFF”) paid from “charity” funds $2 million for Chelsea’s wedding and for her life style over a decade. Some donor contributions to CFF for CGI HIV / AIDS never made it - these specific funds were kept by the Foundation.

Former Mayor/Prosecutor Rudy Giuliani described the CF revelations to be “racketeering.”

Posted by: likklemore | Nov 10 2016 23:34 utc | 45

Stressed out students look for relief....

>College students at several schools have started petitions urging their universities and professors to cancel classes in the wake of Donald Trump’s electoral victory, citing “emotional distress.”<

Posted by: dh | Nov 10 2016 23:34 utc | 46

**** This information is from a known conspiracy theorist site. ****

That said it is very entertaining. The comments section is too.

Apparently The Donald is no Pu$$y

"Some criticize Trump for his lack of political experience. But the truth is that Trump’s background provides perfect preparation for the presidency: He is a lifelong front-man for organized crime. Trump got his job in the Meyer Lansky mob through his mentor, Roy Cohn. Fronting for organized crime, and fronting for the government of the United States, is pretty much the same thing these days. Trump has got plenty of the only kind of experience that really counts."

Posted by: ALberto | Nov 10 2016 23:36 utc | 47

Not related to the topic, but there isn't a general discussion thread today and this seems important:

State Department is now changing course and openly admitting that al-Qaeda is al-Qaeda, no matter what new name they may pick.

Posted by: Kuma | Nov 10 2016 23:43 utc | 48

nmb@2From the links provided:

Neoliberalism officially passes the torch to a ruthless, modern Feudalism ...

Thanks for the link.

John @ 6: Good take John..Agreed!

Yontan @ 38 said: "The US is a single party state - the wealth party." Yep!

For all those who believe Trump will do ANY of the things that benefit the working classes, good luck with that. Maybe leopards can change their spots, and maybe the Clintons will give all their ill-gotten gains to charity.

Posted by: ben | Nov 11 2016 0:05 utc | 49


I believe Trump only has 'energy' for putting the Trump brand out there, in a sort of WWE Raw bombastic fashion, and that both he and Rodham are having mental breakdowns right now. You can tell by looking at them, and those around them.

I posited here six months or so ago that Sander's job was to hold down the Left, so Rodham could move Center Right, and Trump's job was to hold down the Radical Rabbinical Right, that Rodham could never reach, to keep the RRR's under control. There were powerful, powerful, $4,000,000,000,000 a year forces at work there.

I truly believe Mil.Gov.Fed's psychology of getting the mob of proletariat fired up, completely bought-in to the Red and Blue Koolaid charade, and eagerly stress- positioning and waterboarding each other out, is *essential* to the One Party's Rule. That's the only way they are able to steal $4,000,000,000,000 a year, from zeks who have seen their wages and job opportunities cratering since about 1973.

'The (stressed out) frog in the (red and blue faux) pot' psychology of 'buy-in'.

When Bern flipped his Left votes to Rodham, that fit my theory. I believe that Trump was also *supposed* to take the RRR over the cliff, just close enough to winning, except for Puerto Ricans flown into FL and NC to vote, to lose, then gracefully accept, The Right made a 'good fight', now we all have to get along.
In fact, that was his acceptance speech.

Like WWE Raw, he was supposed to lose after a 'titanic struggle in the cage'.

The Clinton Mafia was mortified at this outcome, as we saw at her announcement. The Clinton Foundation's raisson d'etre is now gone, finito. I'm sure they will have to disappear their funds to Qatar, if they haven't already. The whole game plan to mobilize and 'buy-in' the American public to another 8 years of Clinton Mafia Bleed, with Sanders and Trump riding flank, has just gone a little too far.

Trump has neither the experience, nor the stamina nor the interest. Look at him! You can tell. Insiders in his campaign said his offer to VP picks was that they would run all the day to day operations of civilian and military, and Trump would just fly in for speeches and parties. He's Mr Fancy Pants. His Bubble-Boy son will become a trembling pale ghost, his chi-chi nuevo rico family spattered with mud and cow dung and horrible tattle-tale news stories. Trump can't survive it.

But right now I just can't stop CRYING!! (lol)

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 11 2016 0:30 utc | 50

John Pilger: ‘The Truth Is... There Was No One To Vote For’
Going Underground

Posted by: okie farmer | Nov 11 2016 0:34 utc | 51

Again I do not agree with B's optimism. First of all; the Dems are no alternative, even if they ban the Clinton racket. They are one of the two Janus-faces of us-imperialism. In case Tronald will reach the end of the next year alive; will he follow the imperialist ways? Then we will soon be victims of WWIII. Or will he really change something, in which case we all could enjoy a longer lifespan. Nobody knows now, but I would be very surprised would it be the latter.

Posted by: Pnyx | Nov 11 2016 0:37 utc | 52

guess who else is not happy with Trumps win...its worth Trump winning to see Ken Rot vent his spleen and pironically reject 'democracy'l and ignore 56 million americans; and forgets all his 'autocrats were elected... Autocrat = leader not controlled by US
im surpised he didnt work in his favorite 'bomb theme!

Kenneth Roth Verified account

Who's happy about Trump's win?
Putin, Netanyahu, Assad, Duterte, Sisi, Orban, many autocrats.
Says something.

Posted by: brian | Nov 11 2016 0:42 utc | 53

Re: Posted by: WorldBLee | Nov 10, 2016 2:24:28 PM | 1

How could it be sexism when a majority of white women voted for Trump instead of Clinton?

You know - the very people who were supposed to sweep Clinton to the White House?

Posted by: Julian | Nov 11 2016 0:46 utc | 54

Re: Posted by: WorldBLee | Nov 10, 2016 2:24:28 PM | 1

(Oh, and I should clarify - I know that you weren't stating this position - but it is very very easily countered).

Are a majority of white women misogynist?


Posted by: Julian | Nov 11 2016 0:47 utc | 55

Re: Posted by: Pnyx | Nov 10, 2016 7:37:20 PM | 52

Relax. There will be no WW3 anytime soon.

If you're looking for a country he might turn on - there's only 1 that really seems top of mind.

Saudi Arabia.

So much "upside" from his point of view.

Expose the (partial) truth on September 11 - which is tied at one level to the Saudis & Bushes (just why is it he seems to hate the Bushes? - Might have something to do with how he holds them directly responsible for 9-11 don't ya think?) - Also has an added benefit of dragging in Hillary Clinton and her cronies.


Added benefit 3 - go and overthrow the corrupt Saudi monarchs and replace them with whatever - doesn't really matter. A local strongman or even "democracy" - Yep, I know he said he was against that but a paper tiger that was responsible for 9-11 - they are an exception.

So he gets to look tough.

Added benefit 4 - and something he always talked about - if we were going to go into Iraq - why didn't we take their oil!!! Well, if the US goes into Saudi Arabia there is plenty of oil there for the Americans to take! (Even if they cut Saudi output in half in the process).

Do you think someone like Putin/Russia is going to object if the yanks destroy Saudi Arabia? Hardly - the Chinese might not be happy though.

Added benefit 5 - related to destroying Saudi oil output - it saves JOBS IN AMERICA - at US Energy/ Fracking companies.

If you want to make some serious money - I'd say next few months is a great time to get into near-bankrupt US shale plays. They won't be going anywhere.

Those penny stocks will soar if Trump turns on Saudi Arabia.

Do you think he will? I do.

A lot of the support he has had - from the so-called "Alt-Right" types is related to exposing the real story behind September 11.

Sure, there is a link to Israel there behind the Saudi patsies.

I'm sorry to say for any who want Trump to turn on the ZioCons - that won't happen as such. But the Saudis? Hmmmm..

So much WIN for him there I don't think he'll be able to resist it.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 11 2016 0:54 utc | 56

likklemore | Nov 10, 2016 6:34:02 PM | 45

IMHO, there are the health issues so Hillary may not make it to 2020.

Then she'll be sold as the first zombie president.

Posted by: Ghostship | Nov 11 2016 1:16 utc | 57

Julian | Nov 10, 2016 7:54:13 PM | 56

If you want to make some serious money - I'd say next few months is a great time to get into near-bankrupt US shale plays. They won't be going anywhere.

I've read that they've already gone somewhere - into Saudi Arabia's sovereign fund for cents on the dollar.

Posted by: Ghostship | Nov 11 2016 1:18 utc | 58

To rework an old GOP fave, “It’s mourning in America” for most of us, Clinton having outpolled Trump. So what to expect, what will happen, what does it all mean?

Andrew Sullivan throws it down at New York Magazine.

We are witnessing the power of a massive populist movement that has now upended the two most stable democracies in the world — and thrown both countries into a completely unknown future.... In the U.S., the movement — built on anti-political politics, economic disruption, and anti-immigration fears — had something else, far more lethal, in its bag of tricks: a supremely talented demagogue who created an authoritarian cult with unapologetically neo-fascist rhetoric. Britain is reeling toward a slow economic slide. America has now jumped off a constitutional cliff....

This is now Trump’s America.... He has destroyed the GOP and remade it in his image.... And in the coming weeks, Trump will not likely be content to bask in vindication. He will seek unforgiving revenge on those who dared to oppose him.... The House and Senate will fail to resist anything he proposes — and those who speak up will be primaried into oblivion. The Supreme Court may well be shifted to the far right for more than a generation to come.... We will not have an administration so much as a court....

They will likely build a propaganda machine more powerful than Fox and Breitbart — and generate pseudo-stories and big lies that, absent any authoritative or trusted media, will dominate the new centers of information, Facebook or its successors. We will be in a new political and media universe in which an authoritarian cult will thrive. This is how fascists tend to govern.

The only sliver of hope is that his promises cannot be kept. He cannot bring millions of jobs back if he triggers a trade war. He cannot build a massive new wall... [and] deport millions of illegal immigrants, without massive new funding from Congress and major civil unrest. He cannot “destroy ISIS”; his very election will empower it in ways its leaders could not possibly have hoped for. He cannot both cut taxes on the rich, fund a massive new infrastructure program, boost military spending, protect entitlements, and not tip the U.S. into... debt.... At some point, a few timid souls in the GOP may mention the concepts of individual liberty or due process or small government or balanced budgets. At some point even his supporters may worry or balk, and his support may fade.

But hope fades in turn when you realize how absolute and total his support clearly is. His support is not like that of a democratic leader but of a cult leader fused with the idea of the nation. If he fails, as he will, he will blame others, as he always does.... In time, as his failures mount, the campaigns of vilification will therefore intensify. They will have to.

And then there will be a terror attack — or several, as he defines the global battle against terror as one against an entire religion and breathes new life into Al Qaeda and ISIS. What he does after such an attack is utterly predictable, given his past statements, and will likely decimate what civil liberties we have left. Then there will be a clash between police and largely black protestors after another unarmed black man is shot.... [H]e will reinstate Guantánamo and capture prisoners and torture them until the truth he wants is extracted. That truth will be used to further advance the “war against Islam” ....and foment suspicion and hatred among their neighbors. Every single thing we have come to know about this man all but predicts each of these things will come about. All of them portend the end of the America that the world has long known and now must fear.

I see no way to stop this at first, but some of us will have to try. And what we must seek to preserve are the core institutions that he may threaten — the courts, ...the laws governing the rules of war, ...the free press, which he will do all he can to intimidate and, if possible, bankrupt. Then... an independent Department of Justice as one critical bulwark, what’s left of the FBI that will not be an instrument of his reign of revenge, our scientific institutions, and what’s left of free thought in our colleges and universities. We will need to march peacefully on the streets to face down the massive intimidation he will at times present to a truly free and open society. We have to hold our heads up high as we defend the values of the old republic, even as it crumbles into authoritarian dust. We must be prepared for nonviolent civil disobedience. We must transcend racial and religious division in a movement of resistance that is as diverse and as open as the new president’s will be uniform and closed....

We have to forge a new coalition on right and left to resist fascism’s reach and cultic power. In a country which just elected and re-elected a black president — whose grace feels now almost painful to recall — it is surely possible.

I will leave you with these words about what has now happened to America. Someone saw it coming a long time ago:

“The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.”

That was George Washington’s Farewell Address.

A country designed to resist tyranny has now embraced it. A constitution designed to prevent democracy taking over everything has now succumbed to it. A country once defined by self-government has openly, clearly, enthusiastically delivered its fate into the hands of one man to do as he sees fit. After 240 years, an idea that once inspired the world has finally repealed itself. We the people did it.

Like I said before -- not Cleisthenes, but Catiline. A Medici without the good taste.

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 11 2016 1:18 utc | 59

Trump has the air of Augustus about him. Here’s the late, great Gibbon from the Decline and Fall of Rome on Augustus. He notes that “Augustus summoned to his aid whatever remained in those fierce minds of Roman prejudices....” as he completed the destruction of the Republic begun with the murder of the Gracchi and the dictatorship of Sulla.

The obvious definition of a monarchy seems to be that of a state, in which a single person, by whatsoever name he may be distinguished, is intrusted with the execution of the laws, the management of the revenue, and the command of the army. But, unless public liberty is protected by intrepid and vigilant guardians, the authority of so formidable a magistrate will soon degenerate into despotism....”

Every barrier of the Roman constitution had been levelled by the vast ambition of the dictator; every fence had been extirpated by the cruel hand of the triumvir.... The provinces, long oppressed by the ministers of the republic, sighed for the government of a single person, who would be the master, not the accomplice, of those petty tyrants. The people of Rome, viewing, with a secret pleasure, the humiliation of the aristocracy, demanded only bread and public shows; and were supplied with both by the liberal hand of Augustus. The rich and polite Italians, who had almost universally embraced the philosophy of Epicurus, enjoyed the present blessings of ease and tranquility, and suffered not the pleasing dream to be interrupted by the memory of their old tumultuous freedom....

I am so looking forward to the spectacle of “Apprentice: Cabinet Edition.” Interesting to note, the other two triumvirs, Christie and Giuliani, are also major-league bullies. I look for them to have starring roles.

The reformation of the senate was one of the first steps in which Augustus laid aside the tyrant, and professed himself the father of his country. He was elected censor; and, in concert with his faithful Agrippa, he examined the list of the senators, expelled a few members, whose vices or whose obstinacy required a public example, persuaded near two hundred to prevent the shame of an expulsion by a voluntary retreat, raised the qualification of a senator to about ten thousand pounds, created a sufficient number of patrician families, and accepted for himself the honorable title of Prince of the Senate, which had always been bestowed, by the censors, on the citizen the most eminent for his honors and services. But whilst he thus restored the dignity, he destroyed the independence, of the senate. The principles of a free constitution are irrecoverably lost, when the legislative power is nominated by the executive.

Our Fearless Leader will have to resort to the more cumbersome method of primarying them. Well, until they stage themselves a nice Reichstag fire. We'll have neither independence nor dignity.

It was dangerous to trust the sincerity of Augustus; to seem to distrust it was still more dangerous.... After a decent resistance, the crafty tyrant submitted to the orders of the senate; and consented to receive the government of the provinces, and the general command of the Roman armies....

The names and forms of the ancient administration were preserved by Augustus with the most anxious care. The usual number of consuls, praetors, and tribunes, were annually invested with their respective ensigns of office, and continued to discharge some of their least important functions.

All Hail Caesar! Long live the Senate and People of America! Don’t forget, plebeians, show your loyalty to our Orange Imperator who has freed you into slavery by enthusiastically voting for his choices for consuls, praetors and tribunes!

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 11 2016 1:22 utc | 60

And well, here’s a surprise. They’re making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice. Surrogate Manigault had this to say:

It’s so great our enemies are making themselves clear so that when we get in to the White House, we know where we stand.... I would never judge anybody for exercising their right to and the freedom to choose who they want. But let me just tell you, Mr. Trump has a long memory and we’re keeping a list.

I dunno, that sounded both judgmental and threatening to me. . . .

And of course those who protest against Our Day-Glo Orange Fearless Leader will make the list. You have no right to oppose the will of the Volk – oops, I mean the people.

Sounds like a double standard to me. The good Reeve of the Shire had previously proclaimed it to be time for “pitchforks and torches” when it looked like The Donald was going to lose, back before the intervention by the NYC FBI cabal.

And I’ll see your attack on a Trumpeter (who doubtless provoked it) and raise you about 1/2 doz. I know y’all aren’t bluffing with these threats, so I call.

You all love Big Brother, right? So you're not on the list -- for now. What’s not to love! So bow let’s all enjoy a nice Two Minute Hate, shall we? Who shall the target be, you decide. Clinton supporters, MSM, immigrants, women, minorities?

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 11 2016 1:30 utc | 61

Germany Urged to Pause on Syrian Escalation

In my opinion, a peaceful solution to the disaster in Syria is not possible without cooperation with the Russians. This cooperation would be more likely with a President Trump than it would have been with a President Hillary Clinton. Let’s take the time for a DENKPAUSE – time to think this through.

Yesterday, I was part of a group that, in our parlance, belongs to the “one percent” (the elite). In this group was a former U.S. ambassador to NATO. The former ambassador was asked whether it would not be better to talk with the Russians, and to negotiate. He answered the question in a very condescending way: “You are obviously a Trump supporter. But Hillary Clinton will surely win.” The ambassador added that in this case it would be nonsense and unrealistic to expect early negotiations with the Russians.

That was then and this is now ... is Ray McGovern looking for work in the Trump administration? Seems unlikely, but would certainly catapault the propaganda. Ray went on to recite, or did he sing?, Die Gedanken sind frei to the assembled Bundestag.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 11 2016 2:04 utc | 62


That sounds very much like the threat that Brad Delong was issuing several months back to those that would not support Clinton. Go figure.

Posted by: Scylla | Nov 11 2016 2:25 utc | 63

This is shocking information that might just be a psyop piece. I will understand if you remove it.

"Donald Trump’s plans for his first 100 days in office are raising eyebrows around the world, but of all the items on his agenda it is the reopening of the 9/11 investigation that will provide the greatest earthquake for the establishment.

Trump believes that 9/11 has not been properly investigated and he plans to get to the bottom of it. “First of all, the original 9/11 investigation is a total mess and has to be reopened,” Trump said.

The election of Donald Trump has rocked the establishment and things are only going to get rockier for them during his first term. There is a reason George W. Bush didn’t vote for Trump in the election, leaving the presidential line blank and voting Republican down-ballot. Trump has pledged to investigate 9/11 in a way it has not been investigated before."

Posted by: ALberto | Nov 11 2016 2:44 utc | 64

@56 don't quit your dayjob. Saudi Arabia can't fall, nor can its production. Knocking its oil industry offline would destroy the 'globull' economy and USA's bogus economy for that matter

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 11 2016 2:52 utc | 65

The most important thing leftists can do is take to the streets if St. Obama tries to ram through TPP -- which Trump opposed and Clinton 'opposed' (public position) -- during the presidential campaign.

Posted by: fairleft | Nov 11 2016 2:56 utc | 66

Reposting this from elsewhere


No Idea why the title says "controversial". It really isn't controversial how horrifying the civil war in Lebanon was, and how monstrous those who were active in it were.

This Walid Phares was a key element in a massacre that killed 100s of women and children just because they weren't christian (Sabra and Chatilla).
Among many many more horrifying acts.

I cannot strongly enough condemn placing someone like Walid in such a position!!!"""""""

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 11 2016 3:14 utc | 67

^^^ Was not my original post btw

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 11 2016 3:15 utc | 68

b - thanks.. i enjoy reading your political views and hope you ignore or skip over @22 ray b's comments..

@43 debsisdead.. thanks.. i see this much the same as you.. quit consumerism and adopt a way of life independent of this bs about a global economy where local economies have been long dead, or destroyed thanks this same global economy.. folks need to build communities - self sustaining local one's and skip the walmart approach to coexistence with others.. it is going to take a lot of work to get to this and it will not be a quick 4 year presidential cycle fix that is going to fix it either. say goodbye to corporations calling the shots and get the local community to call more of the vision that is necessary for self sustenance.. i guess i have been reading too much wendell berry, for anyone interested, not that i do his ideas justice here..

Posted by: james | Nov 11 2016 3:25 utc | 69

Well, well, well, isn’t this interesting. Apparently the Russian Federation was in touch with the Day-Glo Dictator’s campaign after all. So says the Assistant FM Ryabakov. I, for one, am shocked that both a sitting and a campaigning politician uttered falsehoods.

Oh, and did I mention, pro-Kremlin commentator Markov says "they were feeding Wikileaks too"? Maybe that’s why Assange did nothing to provide a little needed transparency as to The Donald’s murky business and tax affairs.

For the record, I don’t have a problem with the FSB and their minions rummaging around the files, what with all of the “color revolutions” we’ve run and that. I do have trouble with Americans conspiring with them. The Donald's earlier call for help with missing emails seems even less a joke now.

This was an interesting rant to see at site devoted to shipping news. The author, Andrew Craig-Bennett, has long experience in shipping in the Pacific and maritime journalism. He has an interesting notion -- we're out of Gutenberg's world of print and accuracy and into the internet age of clickbait echochambers. The author identifies Trump, as well as Duterte, Farage, and Johnson, as “traitors” to the elite who --

...have, with the use of the internet social media, most especially Mark Zuckerberg’s Facebook, successfully suckered the soggy mass of lazy, ill-educated, ill-read and ill-informed proles, and a good supply of what V.I. Lenin called “useful idiots”, in three nations, into putting them into power, by telling lies and by promising the proles what they want.

What the proles want is ‘good jobs’ but with the ability to buy the stuff they buy now at cheap prices, because it is made by under paid, hardworking, men and women in other countries who have ‘stolen their jobs’, and they want ‘no foreigners’. They can’t have this, of course, but no matter, they don’t read, they just look at ‘memes’, and the damage is done.

The toffish high-minded tone of condescension towards us workers notwithstanding, it does reflect what the lumpenproletariat expects of their Fearless Leader. They’re being set up for a big disappointment.

He quite entertainingly reworks a well-known statement by the first English ambassador to the Forbidden City, Lord Macartney. The original spoke of China fading and England rising in the late 1700’s:

“The United States of America is an old, crazy, first-rate Man of War, which a fortunate succession of able and vigilant officers have contrived to keep afloat for these fifty years past, and to overawe their neighbors merely by her bulk and appearance. But whenever an insufficient man happens to have the command on deck, adieu to the discipline and safety of the ship. She may, perhaps, not sink outright; she may drift some time as a wreck, and will then be dashed to pieces on the shore; but she can never be rebuilt on the old bottom”

“The breaking-up of the power of the USA (no very improbable event) would occasion a complete subversion of the commerce, not only of Europe and North America, but a very sensible change in the other quarters of the world. The industry and the ingenuity of the Americans would be checked and enfeebled, but they would not be annihilated. Her ports would no longer be protected by her Navy; they would be attempted by all the adventurers of all trading nations, who would search every channel, creek, and cranny of Europe and America for a market, and for some time be the cause of much rivalry and disorder. Nevertheless, as China, from the weight of her riches and the genius and spirits of her people, is become the first political, marine, and commercial Power on the globe, it is reasonable to think that she would prove the greatest gainer by such a revolution as I have alluded to, and rise superior over every competitor.”

In the course of the “rivalry and disorder”, there will be fortunes to be made, amidst the general collapse. And our industry is very good at finding those. The really good news is that there will be such a shortage of investment capital that shipping returns will rise as investment becomes scarcer.

I believe he is suggesting here that the present glut of shipping capacity will cease to grow, as financing for new building dries up. In containers, the bankruptcy of Hanjin Line and the ongoing consolidation will likely accelerate. Perhaps the present 20K TEU vessels being built by Maersk and others will be the only ones launched for a few years.

Back to The Donald, yes, he does rather give the appearance of “an insufficient man” on the quarterdeck. Safety and good order and discipline seem of little concern to the good Captain. Queeg or Bligh, do you think? I’m thinking Queeg. He will find who ate his strawberries.

Were I on the CC of CCP, I would be arguing to cut exports to America and redirect the goods and investment towards expanding domestic demand. The Chinese have been trying to engineer such a move, if memory serves. I might be tempted to start dropping some surplus bond and T-bills into the market as well.

But of course the real crisis will come when diners fail to get their meals at swanky restaurants, the lawns of the McMansions are untended, that new deck or addition languishes unbuilt, and our one percenters forced to care for their own children.

“Oh, the humanity....”

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 11 2016 3:40 utc | 70

A website and Twitter account have been set up for the transition team of United States President-elect Donald J. Trump.

Posted by: From The Hague | Nov 11 2016 3:58 utc | 71

rufus @61,

Well, good. That's what they get for such useful shills/parents as J. Bradford de Long looking forward to cheerfully trashing careers in case of a Hillary win, with the circumstances strongly suggesting a prime target was Gerald Friedman of University of Massachusetts, who published an analysis of Bernie's single-payer plan that made the corporate Party's favored clients/policies look like a total ripoff, correctly. Christina Romer, a Brookings economist-hack, basically asserted without evidence or elaboration that thus-or-such factor in Friedman's estimate wasn't realistic.

The slaughter and butchering of the Democratic Party apparatus will be a healthy sight for us all, however grisly.

Posted by: Jonathan | Nov 11 2016 4:05 utc | 72

It's hard to get a read on Trump because he's done some crazy contradictory things and made some contradictory statements and he's not transparent.

We're about to find out who the real Trump is. Trump chose Mike Pence as his VP and he might have chosen Newt Gingrich both Neocons. Rudy Giuliani is a Neocon as well. It's obvious that if Trump had not chosen Pence, a Neo establishment insider as his running mate; he might have lost the election because he needed the majority of Republicans voting for him.

But that was then and this is now. Now he's in charge, and he has a position he needs to fill right away and he'd better not screw it up if he wants to remain in charge. If he picks Reince Priebus, RNC Chairman, as his Chief of Staff; he's done, because immediately with an insider right hand and an insider left hand (Pence) he's lost all integrity and control.

If he picks his Zionist son-in-law he's done because that will become a back door for every Zionist lobbyist. And he made a huge mistake promising he would move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and tear up the Iran deal. Already he's got Netanyahu breathing down his neck to make this happen and Zionists will set all kinds of traps for him if he doesn't toe the Zionist line.

So for starters, he has to pick an outsider for his Chief of Staff. The Chief of Staff has to be loyal to the nth degree. If he doesn't pick an outsider he trusts implicitly, he's screwed, and immediately the strings will be attached. A loyal right hand is a make or break move if he wants to avoid the pitfalls of Washington. A loyal right hand is his eyes and ears. Every Caesar has enemies around him ready to stab him in the back. Already the Ziomedia are trying to make the choice for him; and that should immediately raise a red flag.

If someone has serious dirt on him; he's also done, because that can be used to keep him in his place. But Neocons already tried that one in the campaign with the Access Hollywood tape. They'll need a whole lot more than that to control him in Office.

In my opinion, cleaning up Washington is the absolute priority. If Trump doesn't do it; he's finished in four years, and I don't trust him to do it. I think he believes that reversing Obama's policies will get him another four years; but he's wrong; not in this climate. If people don't see him doing anything to drain the swamp; then he'll be viewed as an insider and will have lost his Trump card. And if he doesn't do this; he will hand the power to all the people who hate him right now and there are a lot.

People right now protesting in the streets better get their priorities straight. It's all well and good to protest and oppose Trump, but if they don't protest the corruption of their democracy by, as Bernie put it, the oligarchy controlling Washington, and that includes the Zionist Lobby, then merely protesting and opposing Trump will get them nowhere. Bernie kept referring to the movement to change Washington, and Trump exploited and ran with that idea against Clinton.

If, during the next four years, Bernie's supporters fail to build on the movement Bernie attached to his wide and enthusiastic support, then nothing will change and whichever Democrat tries to take up Bernie's banner in four years will fail as well. His supporters, many of whom are marching in the streets right now, need to understand that protesting Trump alone will get them nowhere. They need to continue Bernie's narrative and take it further while they protest Trump. The problem goes way beyond Trump. Trump was spawned by the corrupt system. These protesters need to organize into a movement that Washington can no longer ignore and the Democratic Party must take seriously. It should gain greater recognition than the fringe Tea Party and become a force to be reckoned with for anyone who seeks office, in other words, replace the oligarchy that controls Washington at present by exposing their corruption and shaming politicians who are in its favor. It's possible and necessary.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 11 2016 4:05 utc | 73

rufus' bloviations confirm my assertion @9: the scourge is still with us.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 11 2016 4:07 utc | 74

ot concerning wendell berrys views, i'm reading another bookby him ( published in 1994) called 'sex, economy, freedom & community'.. i would like to quote from page 85 a passage i think is relevant and which i just read a moment ago..

"We have made much of Saddam's tyranny, which logically would imply some sympathy for his people, who were the first victims of his tyranny. But we have shown them no sympathy at all, have regarded them not even as human beings but as "fish in a barrel" or as targets in a "turkey shoot." Having killed thousands on thousands of them, virtually without seeing or thinking of them, we have hardly spared for them a word of regret or for their families a word of sympathy. In fact, we have no sympathy for them. For our leaders and much of our public, the appalling statistics of death and suffering in Iraq merely prove the efficiency of our military technology. Ignoring the Gospels' command to be merciful, forgiving, loving, and peaceable, our leaders have prayed only for the success of their arms and policies and have thus made for themselves a state religion - exactly what they claim to fear in "fundamentalist" Islam. But why God might particularly favor a nation whose economy is founded foursquare on the seven deadly sins is a mystery that has not been explained."

i would like to think it will be different under trump and that many americans want to avoid more of the same usa foreign policy that the world has come to know for so many years. however, as we've seen in syria, iraq, libya and etc, for trump to break with this 'tradition' of usa foreign policy of endless war in faraway lands, it remains to be seen. wendell berry lives in kentucky and is a bright light that i am getting a lot of satisfaction reading. i can't see he has given me the answers to the troubles of the world, but he has pointed in a direction that is helpful. one step at a time is all i can do.

Posted by: james | Nov 11 2016 4:51 utc | 75

@73 The republicans' biggest operation will be to consolidate their hold on Washington. I reckon that there will be a flood of stimulus for the purpose of rekindling the real estate market.

There will be a reign of terror on the drug trade, with a strong intention of making a large swath of minorities ineligible for voting in 2020. There will be redistricting schemes, there will be heavy intimidation on the media and community organizer types in order to promote the Republican cause. Much of the MSM will naturally convert to the same way it was during the Bush admin, and the 'stupid American public' will have largely forgotten the past 20 years of mayhem.

The democrats are in a bad crisis. Obama, for his faults, was a strong politician. Hillary would've been as well, if she was not so wreckless, greedy, dangerous and stubborn. Going to a more 'progressive' stance could have consequences for the dems, since the candidate would need the grit to fend off the republican hit-men, but also to fend off the monied interests that maintain the status quo for the party. Quite frankly, the mainstream celebrity candidates have a better chance at winning with, the again, Stupid American Public.

But in spite of my above ramblings, science might finally put the smackdown on all of this political bullshit. Resource depletion, global warming and rampant overpopulation might finally manifest in front of our faces, and with that we'll be right back on the WW3 train

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 11 2016 5:42 utc | 76

b. thanks for the summary... but I differ with respect to the Democratic Party. It is not done for, it is not in the gutter. It will reflect and declare the results a victory - for one simple reason - the protests and screams we hear around the world.

The democratic elites controlled the bulk of the media and thought that with it they were omnipotent. Follow the story of their accomplishments. They sold a narrative of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, ignored mass public protests. In Libya they sold a R2P story and did the same pillage and wanton destruction without a single protest. The public were spectators. In Ukraine they turned a blatant Western coup into a Russian invasion - the spectators took the side of blaming Russia. In Syria they aligned with the most atrocious forms of terror and had the public vilifying the legitimate, elected government (who only 7 years earlier were feted in the West).

This time thought they could get Clinton in despite, her history, her wars, the corruption, the multiple criminal acts - and they would have succeeded but for the relentless despair brought on by the Wikileaks releases. The violent clashes and screams of protest from media and people are proof of the depth of their success. They will see the reactions on the streets as proof that they wield a weapon with almost limitless power - the Media. Their use of it only gets better.

IMO they will only do two things: 1) get a slightly "cleaner" figurehead and 2) eliminate the competition (wikileaks)

Posted by: les7 | Nov 11 2016 5:47 utc | 77

Yeah, but y'all kinda quiet abut the "Fuck yeah we helped!" from the Kremlin. Pesky MSM!

Posted by: rufus magister | Nov 11 2016 6:19 utc | 78

Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter. Knowing that I'd never vote for him, I'd never read it. It looks like the blueprint for much, much more of the same in every area it covers. It doesn't cover 'foreign policy', i.e. regime change, wars abroad and their conduct. I imagine his buddy Newt helped him with it.

But this 'contract' was issued before the election ... when everyone knows that anything said by a candidate is not worth the paper its printed on - and in this case the prospective voter had to furnish the paper. So maybe the tooth fairy will bring a new program to replace his old one.

I cannot take the msps - mainstream politicians - seriously. They have not had our interests or the interests of anyone but themselves at heart ... or in the place where ordinary people's hearts are ... for decades.

Our only chance at self-government is to organize, precinct by precinct, to choose a new set of 546 feds from among ourselves. November 5 2018 is just around the corner ... 170,000+ electoral precincts ... a platform to write ... elections to conduct ... no time to waste. At least that is my conclusion.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 11 2016 6:25 utc | 79

@79 Hopefully Trump and Repugnants will be under huge pressure to deliver in a sensible manner. THat's the best we can get right now, but it's going to be a rough life for poor + poor minorities IMHO

Posted by: bbbb | Nov 11 2016 6:41 utc | 80

From William K. Black economist:

"A period of enormous corruption and elite fraud is coming soon as the Trump administration brings its signature characteristic – crony capitalism – to bear to control all three branches of government. Trump promises to deregulate Wall Street, appoint top supervisors chosen for their unwillingness to supervise, and appoint judges who will allow CEOs to loot with impunity. Trump promises to outdo even the savage anti-med and anti-whistleblower policies of the Obama administration. The House and Senate committee chairs will intensify their blatantly partisan use of investigations while refusing to conduct real oversight hearings revealing the elite fraud and corruption."

Full article:

Posted by: ben | Nov 11 2016 6:44 utc | 81

@jfl | Nov 11, 2016 1:25:48 AM | 79

Dun worry Calexit proposition in 2018... hopefully.
My only condition NO electoral college, dump Nancy Pelosi and Dem.

G'by Amerika

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 11 2016 6:47 utc | 82

LARRY SUMMERS thinks Central Banks should give up their "independence" (control by the banking cabal) & be controlled by govts!! A central tenet of Federal Reserve policy -- that a central bank should remain independent from the national government -- is outdated, in light of the lack of demand suffocating the economy, said former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers on Thursday.
Central bank independence "comes from an understanding of the macroeconomic policy problem that is not relevant to current times,"

Summers said in a speech at the International Monetary Fund.
Central bank insulation was needed in the 1970s and 1980s to combat inflation, Summers said. That's because the White House and Congress sometimes saw the short-run benefits of unexpected inflation, while the Fed kept its eyes on the long-run costs, he said.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 11 2016 6:52 utc | 83

Calexit - California Secession Petition Gaining Strength After Trump Win

Posted by: Jack Smith | Nov 11 2016 6:53 utc | 84

If you leftists think that you can roll back the nationalists counterstrike you are wrong.The US and Europe will be white again.These are our countries.No mexicans have the right to decide our politics.Mexico is for Mexicans.If the muslims think they can have their califate in our countries and do whatever they please its war against them.They all have to go.Either voluntarily or by force.What the Russians do in their country is no matter for us but we wont be conquered.Its war now ! Mass immigration is exactly what the (((NeoCohens))) and what the (((George Soros Bolcheviks))) want to get their people into power.Will not happen.The traitors will have their Nuremberg in reverse.You dont believe this but it will happen.Funny how you now shilling for George Soros made up astroturf rioting.Are you cucks too ? There will be no mery for the headchoppers in Syria and Iraq.Human rights will not count.They will all end up in a mass grave.Europe will be far to the right to Duterte.Drug dealers will be dealt with be sure.

Posted by: Valhalla Rising | Nov 11 2016 7:19 utc | 85

@41: "The primary was rigged in multiple ways. That is not something that anyone should just accept. Except on planet BOHICA"

Oh, please, get real. Do you even know what a primary is?

Get this thought into your head: the primaries are NOT an election process, they are a selection process.

The Democratic party don't have to hold primaries to select who they'll let run for office under their banner - they can choose that candidate by having all the dudes examine chicken entrails while all the girls pull names out of a magician's hat.

It simply doesn't matter, precisely because they aren't choosing who *holds* a public office - they are merely choosing is who they want to *stand* for public office under their banner.

They can do that any way they damn well please - internal party politics isn't a democracy. Not in the United States, not anywhere in the world.

I mean, honestly, let's not forget that the Democratic Party allowed A LONG-TIME INDEPENDENT to throw his hat into that ring.

"He didn't have to "lead an insurgency". He just had to retain some integrity and dignity by NOT ENDORSING!! But he douldn't do that."

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say that I have no idea what you think that would achieve from Sander's PoV.

Really, I'm perplexed: what would Sanders stand to gain by not endorsing the person that the Democratic party had just chosen as their candidate.

I understand that it would make you feel good because, well, because you wouldn't be the one throwing themselves on their sword.
But what would Sanders gain from that, other than a gaping self-inflicted chest-wound?

"There were Republicans that wouldn't endorse Trump."

Agreed, their were. And aren't they sitting pretty right now.....

"But no Democrat is allowed to NOT line up behind the Democratic Party's chosen one?"

I didn't say that. There was nothing STOPPING Sanders from do what you were urging him to do except, of course, his much keener understanding of the futility of gesture-politics.

"Even after DNC-Hillary collusion? C'mon."

Again, I have to ask: what did you expect SANDERS to gain from doing what you propose?

I understand that it would make YOU feel good if he had immolated himself in the manner that you suggest.

Sure, I understand that.

But SANDERS did what he did so he could live to fight another day, and that day is nigh and HE IS SITTING PRETTY for exactly the reasons that I have given i.e. he can show that he was a team man, and he can now point to inescapable evidence that all those no-hopers should be sacked and he should be allowed to run the team.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 11 2016 7:29 utc | 86

@ Penelope,

Larry Summers is not just an asshole, he is a flaming asshole who can see the writing on the wall and is front running the knowledge to protect/make more money and power for his private finance friends/source of his income.

When he comes out advocating for the end of private finance and unfettered inheritance, wake me. never awake

Ok, now that is off my chest, what do I think the next steps are?

1. Realize that both the Democrat and republican parties are tools of the global plutocrats and beyond reform, except my one note samba (end private finance and unfettered inheritance)

2. I laughed at the point trying to be made that the Libertarian/Propertarian party is more of a valid "3rd" party than the Green party because they are registered in all the states.....shows that money buys credibility for some folks.

3. I hope that the deluded commenters that think Trump will save them/us pond scum in some meaningful way will come back when that delusion is dashed and admit to too many hopey/changey thoughts.

4. I encourage folks to watch the latest Edward Snowden interview at this ZH link and use that as a springboard to think about the world they want to live in and leave for future generations.

5. As a follow on to #4 above, think about what structural changes are necessary to our form of social organization to make the world you want possible. For me, as I repeat to a seeming textual white noise echo chamber is end private finance and unfettered inheritance globally.

I am not feeling very Buddhist today.....sorry for the personal attacks.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 11 2016 7:42 utc | 87

To James @ # 69 You suggest...."b - thanks.. i enjoy reading your political views and hope you ignore or skip over @22 ray b's comments"...Why don't you just speak up for yourself and ignore my comment to your hearts content, given that you can't even muster up your own rebuttals to the theme of my argument. As for your missive about just "quit consumerism and adopt a way of life independent of this bs about a global economy where local economies have been long dead, or destroyed thanks this same global economy.. folks need to build communities - self sustaining local one's and skip the walmart approach to coexistence with others.." that's fine and I totally agree that "small is beautiful" as is making it on your own. So be my guest and "just do it". But don't be supersized or come whining here, when the Federal and state governments, it's court officials and the policing authorities declare you and your cohorts in contravention of their globalist imposed "law and order" dictates. And send in their militarized swat teams to crush you and yours like a bug. Just because they can with total impunity, and just like they do to the rest of the worlds peoples. So Good Luck with it my Friend.

Posted by: RayB | Nov 11 2016 8:14 utc | 88

"Obama, for his faults, was a strong politician. Hillary would've been as well, if she was not so wreckless..." Posted by: bbbb | Nov 11, 2016 12:42:09 AM | 76

Was Hillary truly wreckless? I think that she had some wrecks in her carrier even before this campaign.

More seriously, are there any central issues where Hillary went wrong, being an unimaginative member of pampered masses of our liberal elite (I mean, the part of the elite that happens to be liberal) that could help Democratic party (and the un-pampered ones)? Here, at Moon of Alabama, there is a lot of attention to combative rhetoric and almost as combative activities that lost the ability to excite the masses, and even inaction and chaos would be a significant improvement over the current policies. But I suspect that this is not something that makes an electoral difference. The uninformed do not care (although they tend to oppose the interventions), and the incompletely informed support the "combative liberalism" (they read NYT etc.).

Eight years ago I was incompletely informed about healthcare issues in USA which are huge. For profit system very cunningly undermined medical care in USA and gobbles at least the double (triple) of the military budgets which is not that small. People increasingly cannot afford healthcare, although that is being largely obscured by insurance etc. The liberal consensus was that this wreckage has to be prevented, and while "single payer system" has some intellectual advantage, it is not feasible in American political system, so we should get "second best", an intricate regulation of private insurance. GOP succeeded in making Obamacare unpopular, and Sanders had a distinct advantage over Clinton on that issue, she being for fixing Obamacare and he advocating single payer.

The second issue is more meta: how political campaigns are financed. One model is to find a sufficient number of sufficiently munificent backers, and to top it off with small individual donations. The second model is the reverse. There is a little problem how to start. It is seductively easier to start by going through the data base of contacts and get few millions (or a hundred) to start a campaign. The lamentable changes in American campaign finance laws makes it almost "necessary". Trump and Sanders relied on small donations, Trump starting with his own money, Sanders was neither rich nor I recollect any rich supporters. As this year showed only too clearly, money of the super-rich comes with a curse, what used to be a proof of "being serious" became a proof of corruption.

The weakness of the second model is that you need to excite people to gain millions of small donations, and that is sometimes easier said than done. If I recall, Obama was elected using the first model in 2008 and the second model in 2012. Needless to say, the lack of an exciting theme was precisely what made Clinton campaign wobbly and ultimately, failing. And the 16 GOP primary opponents of Trump had the same meta problem.

Third issue is almost funny: gun control. Sanders is a product of Vermont politics, and that being a rural state, you cannot survive if you offend the hunters. A combination of being a foe of Establishment and not harping about gun control made him attractive to white working class, and Trump milked that combination ad nauseam -- but effectively.


That said, I do not expect Trump to be wreckless either. He promised to replace Obamacare with "something marvelous", that is my first bet on a spectacular wreck. He is also smart, so he may time it in such a way that the results will not be clear before the next elections. However, GOP is tremendously psyched up to "abolish Obama care, drive a wooden stake through its heart and bury in a large pool of lime, so there is a chance of some major load of manure hitting turbofans.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 11 2016 8:18 utc | 89

This is trivia but …All the reasons she lost are on splendid display.

Link is to NYPost that shows the two covers they prepared for HRC / DT as president. They did a good job from the symbolism end, but any Ad Man will tell you they painted DT as the winner.

DT is loudly and proudly wearing the US colors, red, white and blue. He wears a flag pin, clearly visible. His dress moreover is proper-male, and his stance veers to the formal/presidential. He is looking out a little right of center (from his perspective). The text is lodged to the left (for the viewer), possibly merely to show the pin. The black and red background (nazi colours) is a little disconcerting? but won't be perceived except by insiders.

HRC wears ‘nothing’ - her dress is not emphasised. It is an arbitrary color, or the color of the opponent who will draw votes away from her (green - Stein.) Her jewellry figures boldly, in your face: she is rich, and very feminine (display of personal accessories.) She looks clearly to the right (from her perspective). The text is lodged at the right. (I.e. the political positions of both are correctly rendered.) Her pose is informal, chatty, not presidential, and slightly defensive: the hands are in front of the face. The USA is very weakly represented, almost invisible: she is in front of an American flag, but red-white-blue contrast/shapes are muddled, and there is too much blue: she is a globalist, barely American.

Lastly, the title tells us one is President and the other is Madam (for the first words); the second words give the name of the person - Trump with President for HRC. HRC has no name, she is just a woman in the role of president.

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 11 2016 8:58 utc | 90

The crazy warmongers in europe is going in full speed now,

German defense minister says Trump should be firm with Russia as NATO stood by US after 9/11

Posted by: Lez | Nov 11 2016 9:25 utc | 91

|By observing who's interests dominate the DNC/DLC campaign finance committee may give the best clue as to what the future holds. Political faces come and go, it is who holds the purse strings that really counts at the end of the day. Bottom line, if you want to control a political party, hold the money. If you don't have the money, get to know somebody who has money who agrees with you. If you don't do that, you are in the wrong game without a clue.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Nov 11 2016 9:33 utc | 92

If you leftists think that you can roll back the nationalists counterstrike you are wrong.The US and Europe will be white again.These are our countries.No mexicans have the right to decide our politics.Mexico is for Mexicans…. Valhalla rising at 85

Heh what??

On this point imho there are definetly reasons to be optimistic about Trump. DT’s brand of nationalism is not that which the MSM attributes to him, or for that matter to LePen / her supporters or Brexiteers. The caricature offered is of poor angry whites who take out their rage on filthy ‘invaders’, because, well, they are racist and stupid, primitive and uneducated. Deplorables. The same stereotype is then catapulted onto the politicians, or they are taxed with sneakliy exploiting, manipulating the frightened masses for their own personal status or gain. “Nationalist Backlash” is made to appear Hitlerian (expansionist and discriminatory) rather than “anti-globalist.”

Trump’s talk about walls was purely symbolic (the MSM took him literally to bash him, while his audience understood the symbolism, imho.) His remarks etc. about Muslims and so on were designed to provoke and bait the media and the Dems - clever move - and to reassure his public that, yes, illegal immigration (which definetly plays some role in unemployment in the US) is a concern he will take on board. (shout: “The economy!”) Moreover, to grasp what Trump meant you have to examine the precise words in their context, and not the MSM bilge.

The truth of the matter is that the party that has been divisive are the Democrats, with their identity politics serving to obscure and mask real issues. They slice and dice the ppl into categories (gays, transgenders, hispanics, etc.) and then insist that each ‘group’ should have their ‘rights’. They use supposed racism / sexism / homophobia as an invisible, inpalpable enemy (it is in the head after all) that must be ‘fought’ for only one reason: to bring these groups, including illegals who vote (yes many do) on their side. 1 They aim to reduce societal politics to personal characteristics and personal identification processes.

This ugly template has now been broken. MAGA means: for all Americans and those who are in the US legally. This is a project (vague, and electioneering ..) that is inclusive and not discriminatory. Trump supporters don’t give a fig if someone is black or yellow or gay, it is ‘back to politics’ (shout: “The economy” and “foreign policy”) and they love their gays et al. They also approve strongly of Jill Stein supporters and the Bernie-bros (we can sort it when we have a proper Gvmt. again - you have a real pov.) When they rant against Cultural Marxism they decry political correctness and Soros-type multiculturalism, one world Gvmt. and so on, not ppl who are colored. The ones they dislike or hate are the ‘libtard’ Clinton supporters, while seeing them as ‘brainwashed.’

Sure, part of the Trump demographic is composed of social conservatives and old guard ‘white men’ Republicans. And I’m no saying racism doesn’t exist, etc. Also, Trump supporters are politically (sensu strictu) a very confused, mixed bag. - I have painted the positive.

1. If you get 58% of women’s vote, 90% black vote, 90% of the gay vote, etc. you can win ..

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 11 2016 10:31 utc | 93

THIS IS NOT OVER YET. Declaring Hitlary Killton winning the popular vote is absolute BULL!

Only possible if Smartmatic devices rigged the election. Their plan to steal the presidency:

...I am writing this not to alarm, but to inform. I believe the Cabal is going to attempt to steal the election, and I'll describe how they plan to do it below. With this information I believe we need to bring our force to bear, and prevent what the Cabal is planning. I've included information below that details actions that you can take to help stop them.

There are currently 3 states that have not declared a winner of the presidential election. The states are Arizona, Michigan, and New Hampshire.

I've done some digging. On the Guardian's electoral map, checking each precinct, in each state, all precincts are completely reported. There is nothing, therefore, from stopping the officials in those states from declaring a winner.

Looking at other sources of information, however, and we get different results. For Arizona, shows that 2 precincts are NOT reported. There are 1467 precincts reporting out of 1469. Which is correct? Why hasn't the Secretary of State declared a winner?

For Michigan, it appears that all precincts have reported, but still, no winner has been declared. You can go to the NY Times interactive map, and see that they are listing the Trump victory chance at 92%, aka likely... not even very likely.

And same thing for New Hampshire, 100% of precincts reporting. Still not called.

HERE IS THEIR PLAN - The Cabal plans to either delay these states then force recounts and find "missing ballots" and switch all of these states to Hillary. That won't make a big splash in the news because Trump has already won the election.

BUT THEN - This leaves Trump up by only 9 electoral votes. And they have already created the notion that TRUMP LOST THE POPULAR VOTE - SO... a majority of Americans wanted Hillary. They will force 9 (going to House, Ryan selects Hillary) or 10 Electors to switch their votes to Hillary (bribes, or the popular vote was for Hillary, threat of death - maybe photos of the other people Hillary has killed).

AND THEN - Hillary is declared as President. The media will say this is shocking, but it is only fair as she "did win the popular vote".

SO, what to do? One, we need this thread pinned. Then we need to start spreading this news so people are aware of this, so this is not surprising when they execute their plans. Then, people need to contact the offices of the Secretary of State below, and find out information about why the Secretaries haven't declared a winner. We need these state to declare a winner. Trump will go up by 27 electoral votes, and it would be too difficult to force 36 Electors to flip their votes to Hillary.

We've been celebrating, relaxing, appreciating a rest from the exhaustion of this election. BUT IT IS NOT OVER. Let's do our duty and force this issue now. We cannot let them steal this election. We have won... but it ISN'T OFFICIAL YET.


Secretary of State of Arizona 000-000-0000 0-000-THE VOTE (secure)

Secretary of State of Michigan 888-SOS-MICH; 888-767-6424

Secretary of State of New Hampshire Phone: 603-271-3242 Fax: 603-271-6316

Posted by: ProPeace | Nov 11 2016 11:04 utc | 94

@Valhalla Rising | Nov 11, 2016 2:19:27 AM | 85

Are you a useful idiot or a perfidious agent provocateur ?

Do you know why those zombie hordes are flooding the gates ?

Because the masters of Soros, NATO, Saudis, Israelis in London have been destroying deliberately their homelands ! And then luring them with leaflets, money, propaganda, promises of better standards of living to invade us.

Through economic warfare: NAFTA, sanctions, subversion: "color revolutions", Arab Spring, impeachment of Rouseff, or through physical threats - by sending terrorists, weapons to target countries, bombing the hell out of the infrastructure...

You cannot fight those people socially engineered by the cabal without first educating them about their plight and trying to win them over for our common human cause.

You have to help in rebuilding their countries first.

Posted by: ProPeace | Nov 11 2016 11:18 utc | 95

Debsisdead @ 43 says:

I have spent some time considering this over the years and reached the conclusion that while it may not be possible to ensure everyone gets everything it is possible to help build a system where everyone gets the basics - somewhere decent to live and enough good food to feed the family

from my point of view pretty much everyone in America has the basics. roof over the head, refrigerator with at least some chicken and milk in it, a car, a tv, and probably an internet connection to boot. the problem is, actually, that too many people have too much.

(i don't mean to ignore the indigent, the destitute, and the chronically homeless. this is tragic and a national shame, but they are relatively few among the 330 million)

so i see the problem as one of adaptability...i.e., learning to live more cognitively with much less in a world where time is, in fact, not money, but rather, just the lapse between sunrise and sundown, sundown and sunrise.

Posted by: john | Nov 11 2016 11:25 utc | 96

ProPeace | Nov 11, 2016 6:04:54 AM | 94

THIS IS NOT OVER YET. Declaring Hitlary Killton winning the popular vote is absolute BULL!
Only possible if Smartmatic devices rigged the election.

It is perfectly possible in a first-past-the-post-winner-take-all electoral system as used in 48 states for the losing candidate to win the popular vote. It is far less likely although not impossible for it to happen where the seats in the electoral collage are allocated proportionate to the popular vote as they are in Nebraska and Maine.
As for the states that haven't reported, I suspect but don't know for a fact that that is because they had not reported by the time Hillary Clinton made her concession speech at which point counting all the votes became irrelevant.
As for trying to reverse the election results through the courts after making a concession speech, the longer you leave it the less likely the Supreme Court is to allow it so even by now I suspect it's very unlikely. If Clinton hadn't made a concession speech then it would still be on the table.
The only way that Clinton could win now is if enough electors switch sides when the electoral college meets on December 19th. Will more than thirty electors switch sides?

Posted by: Ghostship | Nov 11 2016 11:48 utc | 97

People increasingly cannot afford healthcare, although that is being largely obscured by insurance etc. The liberal consensus was that this wreckage has to be prevented, and while "single payer system" has some intellectual advantage, it is not feasible in American political system, so we should get "second best", an intricate regulation of private insurance. GOP succeeded in making Obamacare unpopular.. Piotr at 89

Imho health care is the no. 1 issue the US should attack re. internal matters (no 1 as I don’t want to discuss employment for now.) Also because health-care reform is possible, it is malleable, and not and all-or nothing thing. Parts can be improved, others put off, etc. (Though one does need an overall plan!) Lastly, this is an area where the Gvmt. must act. The pay-off would be rapid and tremendous, in confidence, health, happiness, work and school…

Trump’s plan isn’t a plan, it is fiddling about the edges. Trump seems to be set on free market principles, competition to lower costs, and private insurance combined with ‘social programs’ such as Medicaid. I have picked out the most relevant bits in the two plans that exist, see post 2. To give life to a program of the type that would emerge from positions like those and result in some ‘health’ improvement, while lowering costs to the users -at least to the non-rich- seems nearly impossible. It would require cost-control on the insurance cos. which is contradictory to the principles. DT seems to envisage cost-control on meds, but not insurance. He has said several times suggested an ‘large’ expansion of social HC. This at least has the merit of shunting part of the costs to the tax-payer away from the patient, but it then requires higher taxes on the rich or finding the money elsewhere (military budget.)

The main problem as I see it is that to produce any positive change at all entrenched monopolistic and rapacious interests have to be attacked and dismantled. (Hopefully Trump merely wished not to frighten them?) The second is costs in the sense of what is charged, the whole financial circuit of the sector is absolutely crazy. Dealing with that implies not only transparency but…price setting (at least in reasonable ‘windows’) which is BigGov and communistic!

My own pov is HC should *never* be for-profit, but I’m not writing this from the strident stance of ‘single payer’ is the only solution. Trump could do a lot, there are various options, ways, means. But he has to propose something different, not another version of the ACA! Trump has to be opposed immediately!

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 11 2016 11:58 utc | 98

Trump on Health Care. quotes (besides repeal ACA which is aim 1.)


By following free market principles and working together to create sound public policy that will broaden healthcare access

No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to

By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system

Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)

Require price transparency from all healthcare providers

Block-grant Medicaid to the states

Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service.

Providing healthcare to illegal immigrants costs us some $11 billion annually.

We need to reform our mental health programs and institutions in this country.


Returns the historic role in regulating health insurance to the States 

To maximize choice and create a dynamic market for health insurance

Enable people to purchase insurance across state lines

Enable States to experiment with innovative methods to deliver healthcare to our low-income citizens

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 11 2016 12:03 utc | 99

@Ghostship | Nov 11, 2016 6:48:06 AM | 97 Thanks.

I was not talking about the mathematical possibility, but about the true popular support for Hildabeast, which is not more than 20-30%.

That's obvious if you talk to the people on the streets.

Lame-scream media polls are of course rigged as well.

Posted by: ProPeace | Nov 11 2016 12:04 utc | 100

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