Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 22, 2016

Open Thread 2016-34

News & views ...

Posted by b on October 22, 2016 at 15:19 UTC | Permalink

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Just a re-post from the last thread to the new . "In a remarkable conflict-of-interest, Fox News analyst and former Clinton operative Douglas E. Schoen has failed to disclosed to readers that he’s been paid millions of dollars from Ukrainian agents to incite a war between the United States and Russia. Before inciting war with Russia, Schoen worked for Bill Clinton and brokered meeting (for $40,000 a month) between then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and billionaire oligarchs."

Posted by: Terry | Oct 22 2016 15:28 utc | 1

Personally I don't know if I 'trust' RT any more than I 'trust' American media ... but I do pay attention to both.

Here's an article to get the ball rolling: what is propaganda? Who is guilty of propagandizing news?

Of course, I truly think that Telesur is about as balanced as we can get.

Posted by: rg the lg | Oct 22 2016 15:29 utc | 2

Aleppo checkpoints at the end of the ceasefire

Posted by: Les | Oct 22 2016 16:26 utc | 4

I am providing a link that shows a peaceful Muslim prayer protest in Rome

It seems that Italy recognizes Mormons as a valid religion but not Muslims. How is that for religious compassion and understanding?

I have posited in comments before that I think that back in the Enlightenment period we didn't quite make it through there was a "devils pact"
established between the owners of private finance and Xtian religious leaders to provide ongoing validity and support to each other.

And here we are, headed to that Xtian hell in a already burning basket because we refuse to evolve as a species.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 22 2016 16:27 utc | 5

Selection 2016 events are really getting interesting.

Hillary Clinton did not just pay mercenaries to assault Trump supporters, she also violated the law on several occasions.

Posted by: ALberto | Oct 22 2016 16:38 utc | 6

In Illinois, Trump will be citing the Illinois criminal statute. The Mob action is a Class Four felony punishable by 3-6 years in prison and a $25,000 fine for each charge in Illinois. When Trump brings forward the paperwork, he very well could charge anyone associated with helping, planning, organizing, or paying anyone to commit acts of violence–which would include Hillary Clinton.

In Illinois, statute reads as follows:

A person commits mob action when he or she engages in any of the following:

The knowing or reckless use of force or violence disturbing the public peace by 2 or more persons acting together and without authority of law;
The knowing assembly of 2 or more persons with the intent to commit or facilitate the commission of a felony or misdemeanor; or
The knowing assembly of 2 or more persons, without authority of law, for the purpose of doing violence to the person or property of anyone supposed to have been guilty of a violation of the law, or for the purpose of exercising correctional powers or regulative powers over any person by violence.

Donald Trump would win this case easily, but he is not stopping in Illinois. Trump and his team have indicated that he will also be suing for the brutal attacks that occurred in San Diego, California.


Posted by: ALberto | Oct 22 2016 16:40 utc | 7

Option two: Trump wins. Problem: he will be completely alone. The Neocons have total, repeat total, control of the Congress, the media, banking and finance, and the courts. From Clinton to Clinton they have deeply infiltrated the Pentagon, Foggy Bottom, and the three letter agencies. The Fed is their stronghold. How in the world will Trump deal with these rabid “crazies in the basement“?

When Putin came to power he inherited a Kremlin every bit as corrupt and traitor-infested as the White House nowadays. As for Russia, she was in pretty much the same sorry shape as the Independent Nazi-run Ukraine. Russia was also run by bankers and AngloZionist puppets and most Russians led miserable lives.

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 22 2016 16:48 utc | 8

Putin on Hillary or Trump

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 22 2016 16:51 utc | 9

On propaganda about Aleppo vs Mosul, a goodish piece from Patrick Cockburn:
Also check out Hypernormalisation on BBC iPlayer- flawed but still very good.Jonathan Cook has a fair crit of it in the current CounterPunch.

Posted by: Mr Toad | Oct 22 2016 17:00 utc | 10


I get 8 spams a day from Trump operative for moar money, which he and his family will keep, just as Gore, Kerry and McCain kept their campaign $10sMillions, which together with the bribes he will receive from DNC to drop the baseless lawsuits, will go to file Melania's shoe closet with moar Italian bling.

Meanwhile, US news is not reporting violent classes between Philippines hard ring-wing army and police, and mobs of 'leftist' protestors marching in support for Duterte's 'I declare separation from the US!'. However upon return to Davao, he clarified that he meant separate foreign policies with patron-states America and China, ...just as Trump will clarify his 'The Wall' and his 'Kill ISIS' policies are really moar about making the DOD-DHS-NSA-CIA Deep State Axis of Terror the Be All It Can Be, at $1,000,000,000,000 a year bleedout, 4x more than under Reagan. Then On to Crimea for the good of 'Stand With Israel', just as soon as World Bank infrastructure loans to the Israeli Junta Coup in Kiev, to rebuilt E Ukraine roads and bridges to military load capacity concludes it's work.

And Duterte will remain isolated in his Davao compound, while the Philippines own Deep State rules from Manila, building naval bases for US military dockage and resupply within air strike distance of China, not because they ever would, but because 'South China Sea Is Not China's" is a very sellable brand, with unlimited grift potential through the criminally corrupt Pinoy Defense (sic) establishment, rount-tripping $10s Bs right back to WADC NOVA, as all the Pentagon's brands and flavors have, $6,400,000,000,000 of taxpayers' last life savings, that are never coming back, now listed as 'Missing in Action'.

"Now they're coming for your SS. And you know what? They'll get it! They'll get all of it!" (which they already have, Rodham's new stealth 3% withholding tax, like her $3.5B grift to Karzai to cover the theft of her $5B grift to Karzai, is meant to cover the gaping shortfalls in the looted SS and MS TRUST FUNDS.)

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 22 2016 17:08 utc | 11

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 22, 2016 12:27:32 PM | 5

"Right wing parties have called for a blanket ban on any mosques built with funds from donors outside of Italy." This is probably smart unless the foreign gov is Turkey which does a good job of monitoring its mosques in europe. Saudi money = Saudi friendly Islam, no good for anyone but Saudi.

Otherwise if you're going to let people of a religion in your country to lever the local labor force you might as well let them build their own churches.

Posted by: Cresty | Oct 22 2016 17:10 utc | 12


There were no churches and no clergy and no liturgy when Jesus broke away from the goat gods of the Caananites, just as there were no temples and no monks and no liturgy when Buddha broke away from the monkey gods of the Brahmanites.

In both cases, Jesus' and Buddha's principal precept was 'all men are created equal' and the Caananite and Brahman Exceptionalist caste-systems were the great evil, yet in less than a century, the clergy and the monkhood had carved out a griftfest.

In the East, that Buddhist monkhood continues to serve the people, provide temples where poor youth are save to learn and study the precepts that help the East survive grinding poverty, and to challenge the modern wars of the Caananites, as they still do today.

In the West, however, the role of the clergy became the spox for Deep State during the Dark Ages purges under the absolute rule of the Royals, then the Devilish twins evils of the 'Rolling Rock Ascension' and the "Worship of Queen Mary" mystical gobbledegook. With a very few exceptions, the church of jesus original faith has been lamentably shamed, and now resides beside the throne of continuance of government, leaving welfare (sic) up to the for-profit Khazarim.

Or as Reverend Billy Graham, 'America's Preacher' once exhorted the seething crowds in WA DC at the Lincoln Memorial, "Bomb the Gooks for Jesus!" And that's your Mammonite Monkey God world manifesting in this era, back to the Dark Ages.

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 22 2016 17:32 utc | 13

Some very interesting new aspects on the crash of flight MH17. Looks like the investigators "forgot" an entire scenario:

Posted by: Sam T. | Oct 22 2016 19:03 utc | 14

First one here is days old, but goes with the theme of another story out today IRAQ warning Erdo to stay TF out of Iraq (as in Mosul specifically for now)!
Po' sultan just can't get no love no how.
No R-E-S-P-E-C-T, either.

Syrian Army: Erdogan Regime Committed Massacre against 150 Civilians in Aleppo Countryside
2 days ago October 21, 2016
It warned that any attempt to repeat the violation of the Syrian airspace by the Turkish warplanes will be responded and downed with all available means.

Posted by: schlub | Oct 22 2016 19:26 utc | 15

A tale of two cities under siege
By Gwynne Dyer
Published on October 22, 2016

Two great sieges are getting underway in the Middle East, one in Mosul in Iraq and the other in Aleppo in Syria.

Posted by: virgile | Oct 22 2016 19:30 utc | 16

And for your sick political humor of the day

This posting is mostly twitter responses to the latest from the other Donald at Gettysburg


Chris Antenucci @chrisantenucci
#Gettysburg "4 score and 7 years ago, I assaulted women, went bankrupt multiple times, and sued everyone who criticized me."
10:01 AM - 22 Oct 2016

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 22 2016 19:31 utc | 17

Aleppo & Mosul: How Western rhetoric on anti-terror ops changes depending on location (VIDEO)

Posted by: Lieb2 | Oct 22 2016 19:38 utc | 18

TheRealDonald says:

There were no churches and no clergy and no liturgy when Jesus broke away from the goat gods of the Caananites,...

yeah, it came to me in a waking dream, our good friend JC wandering the hemp-clad hills of the Beqaa Valley, with a head full of hemp no doubt, in the very shadow of majestic Baalbek, out on the very fringe of Empire, with his gentle rant, his radical message, of peace and brotherly love.

he never meant it to be like this, dude's rollin' in his grave, er, or whatever

Posted by: john | Oct 22 2016 20:13 utc | 19

Britain has been providing military training to the Saudi Arabian Air Force, while the country is carrying out atrocities in neighboring Yemen, a report says.

The UK's Liberal Democrats revealed that the British government is providing the training in both Saudi Arabia and Britain itself, The Independent revealed on Saturday.

Same self-righteous bunch who were all in a tizzy a few days ago over the recent russian warships passaging through 'their' waters enroute to Syria.

Posted by: schlub | Oct 22 2016 21:03 utc | 20

@20 schlub - hypocrisy is on display 24/7...

Posted by: james | Oct 22 2016 21:28 utc | 21

Charles Hugh Smith (Of Two Minds) article:

Welcome to Neocolonialism, Exploited Peasants!

Posted by: euclidcreek | Oct 22 2016 22:10 utc | 22 Duterte raises his fist with the Reds. "This will not stand!"

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 22 2016 22:31 utc | 23

? Flash--per Sibel Edmunds

Turkey has own Nweapons+Ntech since 2000 Sibel Edmunds

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 22 2016 22:48 utc | 24

@ 8, Hillary Clinton and her gang of Neocons are the spiritual (and sometimes even physical) successors of the Soviet Bolsheviks and they, just like their Bolshevik forefathers, will not hesitate for a second to crush their enemies.

Bullshit, the Bolsheviks made Russia Grrrreat! To suppose out loud that they're similar in any way to the gore-flecked gangster cabal at present raping the planet is a grotesque slander. Thank Christ they disposed of the Liberal filth that, even today, make smiley faces while they gorge on innocent flesh.

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 22 2016 23:02 utc | 25

What is happening right now in South China Sea?

Posted by: Nick | Oct 22 2016 23:13 utc | 26

@15 schlub

Syrian Army Command: Any Turkish military presence inside Syria will be dealt with as an “occupation force”

The statement referred to the targeting of villages and towns in northern Aleppo by Turkey’s air force and its army units’ transgression into Syrian territory, along with providing direct military support, using artillery and tanks, to the terrorist organizations to continue committing crimes against civilians in northern Aleppo.

The statement said Erdogan’s regime is playing a “dirty” role having provided shelter, training, weapons and funds to the armed terrorist groups and opened Turkey’s border to facilitate the flow of thousands of mercenary terrorists into Syria since the beginning of the war.

The Army’s General Command affirmed in its statement that any presence of the Turkish army units across the border into Syria, under whatever excuses, is rejected and condemned and will be considered an “occupation force” and confronted with all the means available.

It also held the Turkish leadership fully responsible for the “dangerous consequences” that might result from its acts on the security and stability of the region.

Turkish tanks and vehicles penetrated earlier today into the northern countryside of Aleppo, over two days after Turkish warplanes committed a massacre of killing more than 150 civilians in attacks on the villages and towns of Hasadjek, al-Wardiyeh, Hassieh, Ghoul Sorouj, Sad al-Shahba, Ihres and Um Hawsh in the same countryside of Aleppo.

On September 28, the Turkish forces transformed a school building in Jarabulus city into a hospital and hoisted the Turkish flag above it in another violation of the Syrian sovereignty.

While falsely claiming to be fighting ISIS terrorist organization through these actions, the Turkish military forces aim at helping other terrorist organizations linked to the Turkish regime to replace ISIS in those areas.

... and Syria's Russian partners will help Syria repulse the Turkish occupation and invasion?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 22 2016 23:14 utc | 27

@ jfl

And the plot thickens. A couple of comments above there is the assertion the Turkey has nuclear weapon capabilities.

The death throes of empire continue. How many more have to die to keep those that own private finance in power?

WWIII has started. How will it evolve and end?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 22 2016 23:28 utc | 28

“As president, I will make it clear that the United States will treat cyberattacks just like any other attack,” the Democratic presidential nominee said. “We will be ready with serious political, economic and military responses.

We need to tell everyone that for the sake of the word. do not vote for this dangerous woman!

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Oct 22 2016 23:33 utc | 29

@ 24

How would you like it if someone like Martin Litsis, Chairman of the Bolshevik Red Army Cheka (Eastern Front), showed up at your front door?

“We are not fighting a war against the individuals - wrote Latsis in "The Red Sword" 1 November 1918. We are eradicating bourgeoisie as a class. Do not seek evidence during the investigation that the accused acted or spoke against the Soviet Government. The first question, that you must ask would be - what class do you belong to, what is your background, upbringing, education or trade? These questions must seal the fate of the accused. This is the "gist and meaning of red terror."

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 22 2016 23:35 utc | 30

Seems UK is moving into full war-propaganda-lying mode, check this whopper:

Their "Russian" they quote, works at, get this, the neocon *Cato Institute* in Wash DC (you would be correct in assuming they don't mention that) try SourceWatch to get some info on them

The icing on the cake is they refer to the "Balkan Sea" throughout the article, and still haven't corrected it, they just don't give a hoot anymore about the plebs they make up the dross for :D
Someone want to grab a copy of the page before they trash it?

Posted by: land_of_the_few | Oct 22 2016 23:55 utc | 31

Turkish bombing in Syria threatens wider war

In the midst of the deadly combat between Washington’s supposed allies in the struggle against ISIS, US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter flew to Ankara on Friday for talks with the Turkish government on both Syria and Iraq. Carter’s remarks in Turkey appeared aimed at smoothing over tensions with Ankara, which have deepened since the abortive July 15 military coup against Erdogan, which many in Turkey believe was supported by the US. Washington, the US defense secretary said, would “continue to stand side-by-side with our NATO ally against shared threats.”

Carter also stated that there was an agreement “in principle” to allow Turkey’s participation in the ongoing siege of Mosul in northern Iraq. “Iraq understands that Turkey, as a member of the counter-ISIL [ISIS] coalition, will play a role in counter-ISIL operations in Iraq, and, secondly, that Turkey, since it neighbors the region of Mosul, has an interest [in] the ultimate outcome in Mosul,” he said.

Erdogan has expressed Turkey’s “interest” in Mosul by invoking century-old Turkish claims of sovereignty over the area.

Carter’s claim of an agreement was countered almost immediately by the Iraqi government, which had earlier indicated that it would attack any Turkish forces attempting to advance on the city. “I am unable to comment on Carter’s statement as we are unaware of any agreement to allow Turkish troops on Iraqi soil until now,” an Iraqi government spokesman said.

The US-Turkey axis seems ready to effect the dismemberment of Syria and Iraq simultaneously. What will Syria and its allies do to meet the Turkish juggernaut?

Don't hear so much about the Russian-Turkish detente and its attendant peace and light any more.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 23 2016 0:15 utc | 32


"We need to tell everyone that for the sake of the word. do not vote for this dangerous woman!"

Trump's 'The Wall' = $TRILLION DOD-DHS National Police State, as others have already described.
DHS legislation was already passed but defeated by Republicans. This is the NeoLiberal end-run.
The whole Trump-Rodham Royal Schtick 2016 was to mobilize The People through Fear of The Other.

Trump's 'Kill ISIS' = $TRILLION DOD-DHS Military Wehrmacht State, as others have already described.
DOD legislation was already passed but defeated by Democrats. This is the NeoConservative end-run.
The whole Trump-Rodham Royal Schtick 2016 was to mobilize The People through Fear of The Other.

Trump's 'Stand With Israel' = $TRILLION DOD-DHS Global Apocalypse, as others have already described.
The whole Trump-Rodham Royal Schtick 2016 was to enable The Globalists through Freeing Moar Grift.

Trump's 'Cut Corporate Taxes' = $TRILLION Tax Revenues Collapse, as others have already described.
The whole Trump-Rodham Royal Schtick 2016 was to finance The Globalists through Easing Up Taxation.

Trump's 'Kill Off ACA' = $TRILLION SS and MC Services Holocaust, as others have already described.
The whole Trump-Rodham Royal Schtick 2016 was to Suffocate Our Elders by cutting SS & MC payouts.

1998 was their Soft Coup. 2001 was their Hard Coup. For 15 years America has been in an Apocalypse.

Sanders held down the Left so Rodham could move Center-Right. Then Sanders delivered the Left to her. Trump held down the Far Right, isolated and split them into Tax Dodgers versus Rabbinicals. Then he is going to take them over the cliff in November, leaving a palm-strewn path to Galilee for Rodham.

Rodham the Royal. Rodham the Globalist. Rodham the Friend of Wall Street. It was all so predictable!

Don't feel so bad! Rumsfeld-Cheney's 'Continuance of Government' Deep State siphons off $10sBs for domestic psyop, and they hire the best social engineering graduates that money can buy. From the signing of Gramm-Leich-Bliley, to the 9/11 destruction of all the IRS/SEC/Congressional records of high crimes and misdemeanors by Wall Street and Pentagon, America's demise has been irreversible.
Anything you manage to save and set aside, their MIC elder-care will reverse-mortgage back again.

You have no choice. You are owned. They own you.

Now we must vote, we must accept the outcome, we must pay our annual tithe-tax to the One Party,
together with our annual interest-only 'debt' (sic) tithe-tax to the Private Fed Bank...forever.
And if someone poorer than you crosses your path, you'd better have cash in your pocket to share.

Sack up, it's gonna be a bumpy ride to Charon's Crossing.

Posted by: chipnik | Oct 23 2016 0:23 utc | 33

Here is an essay worth reading.

Long ago (1968) after returning from Vietnam with a bullet hole in my leg (my 90 wonder, post-ROTC officer shot me when he panicked) I wondered off to a down-at-the-heel cow college. There I took a class and C Wright Mills 'The Power Elite' was required reading. I had just finished 'War is a fraud' and read an article by Paul Ehrlich an then 'The Population Bomb' shortly thereafter. The three books created an interesting fusion in my mind: 1. more or less after the year 2000 the world would be plagued by resource wars; 2. the primary role of the military is to enforce what capitalists want; and 3. behind the alleged scenes of our form of government hovered oligarchs who would demand more and more.

I recently found a paper I had written long ago. It wasn't very well written, but even then the handwriting was on the wall: oligarchic greed; a military dedicated to protecting the wealth of oligarchs; and, wars over resources. Granted Bill Clinton began the current charade about 'humanitarian wars' but it was Bush II and Obama who turned our focus into resource wars and the hegemons (Malignant Overlords) who decided it was time to take it all.

I guess the point of all of this is (except for the details) Ehrlich, Mills and Butler warned us. As did Huxley and Orwell ... we were just too damned dumb (or distracted) to see it.

Maybe with the Queen of Chaos, the above will result in either annihilation or in a severe reduction in the numbers of people ... (hopefully including all of the oligarchic class) and the chance to start over?

Nah ... we'll just fuck it up again ... as a species we refuse to learn. Sigh ...

Posted by: rg the lg | Oct 23 2016 0:25 utc | 34

"A #RallyForAleppo will be taking place at 12 outside Downing Street in London calling for more decisive action on #Syria from the Government"

"Teddy bears for the children of Aleppo #RallyForAleppo"

Oh the insanity ....
Interestingly the signs they carry have the logo of Avaaz. Which is the PR company behind Syria Campaign and the White Helmets ....

Posted by: Qoppa | Oct 23 2016 0:27 utc | 35

Rigged Elections Are An American Tradition

Paul Craig Roberts • October 21, 2016

Posted by: virgile | Oct 23 2016 0:41 utc | 36

@ jfl

I am wondering if the situation with Turkey is that Erdogan has told the US that in exchange for his support he wants to expand his country into Syria.

The little boys are playing with big marbles now........

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 23 2016 0:49 utc | 37

@36 Apparently Erdogan thinks Turkey still holds some good cards...

"PM Binali Yildirim said it might be necessary to take action because Iraq and the US had not kept their promises.
He said both countries had allowed Shia militias and Kurdish separatists to take part in the operation.
Iraqi PM Haider al-Abadi on Saturday told the US that there was no need for Turkish forces as yet."

Posted by: dh | Oct 23 2016 1:13 utc | 38

@30 lotf, 'Their "Russian" they quote, works at, get this, the neocon *Cato Institute* in Wash DC'

Andrei Illarionov

Cato Institute

The real story of the "Balkan Sea" 'aggression'.

'It also aims to make citizens suspicious about the European Union, and to warn Finland over not joining NATO.'

Posted by: jfl | Oct 23 2016 1:16 utc | 39

1 less or fewer alphabet evil conglomerate name to remember.

US Telecommunications giant AT&T, Inc. has agreed in principle to purchase media conglomerate Time Warner Inc., which is one of the country's largest film and television companies, for more than $80 billion, major US media outlets reported Saturday, adding that a formal announcement of the deal could come later in the day.

Posted by: schlub | Oct 23 2016 1:19 utc | 40

@31 jfl - Don't hear so much about the Russian-Turkish detente and its attendant peace and light any more.

Patience. Looking at tactics on the ground to reveal if Turkey has thrown in with east or west doesn't seem to be getting any of us anywhere. There's a major geopolitical pivot at stake here. Is it real or not? Russia certainly has shown enormous tolerance for the less than perfect at the tactical level when it comes to major shifts at the strategic level. What lines will Erdogan cross, and with what degree of alliance with US forces or designs will he cross them? Not known yet. Not shown yet.

There seem to be a lot of layers here. Erdogan is being warned by Iraq and now also the Syrian General Command that his presence on both countries is occupation and will be fought militarily. There's a huge amount of rhetoric and bluster coming from Turkey lately. How much is real can only be revealed by how much territory it ultimately controls beyond its own current borders.

And speaking of layers, try this mass of nuance from Peskov (today's date): Peskov: Putin and Erdogan are working to restore trust

“President Putin sufficiently trusts President Erdogan,” Peskov remarked. He added that the leaders of the two countries “are discussing the most sensitive topics related to the situation in the region and bilateral relations.”

Peskov went on: “I think that, of course, this mutual trust could be destroyed very easily and very quickly. Restoring trust takes time but without a doubt the two countries’ presidents have come a long way in this regard.”

To me it reads like walking a knife edge. Nobody has had to flatten Erdogan yet. On the other hand, he's being incredibly pushy for a man who had an epiphany on the road to Damascus. If he betrays his own best interests and forfeits his chance to join Eurasia and leave the US, he will go down as the fool of the century. His brinkmanship at each turn suggests either the madman he often seemed to be, or numerous currents within Turkey and perhaps its military. But the course for Turkey is clear. How well Erdogan can steer that course remains to be seen.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 23 2016 1:21 utc | 41

@29, Lol, how would I like it? Thanks for asking! I'd probably say something like "Sign me up! Somebody has to run the world myself and my friends must inhabit and I'd just as soon it be people like me who despise libral filth and revile imperial shite."

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 23 2016 1:22 utc | 42

@LochEarn 29
Have I got the stuff for you, or what? ;)
He (Latvian:- Mārtiņš Lācis, Russian form: Martin Ivanovich Lācis, seems to have been a rum character. Lācis means "bear" in Latvian. His original name was actually Jānis Sudrabs. That is a pure Latvian-Ethnic name, not Russian at all. Sudrabs means Silver in Latvian.
He was a Latvian origin Soviet Revolutionary and writer.
He was from Vecpiebalgas pagasts (parish) specifically Putina estate, Wenden district (Wenden is the traditional German exonym for modern-day town Cēsis - these Baltic German names existed for 100s of years along with the German Landowners who were in the end kicked out by the Swedes), Livland Governorate (i.e. the future Latvia) Russian Empire.
OK anyway seems he worked mostly in Russia proper, and got shot by the NKVD in 1938. He was accused of belonging to a "counter-revolutionary, nationalist organization" by the NKVD.
He was not from Courland/Kurzeme, that is an error, definitely from Vidzeme region.
He worked in Rīga as a teacher until he went LSD (Latvian Social Democrats)
and participated in revolution against the Rusdian Empire. Then he moved to Moscow in 1913 then Irkutsk, then Ukraine then Moscow again. Which is where they shot him. They rehabilitated him posthumously in the 1950s tho ....

Posted by: land_of_the_few | Oct 23 2016 1:27 utc | 43

@37 dh 'Iraqi PM Haider al-Abadi on Saturday told the US that there was no need for Turkish forces as yet.'

No quotes around the words attributed to either PM. I imagine the 'might' from Turkey and the 'as yet' from Iraq are the creations from whole cloth of the BBC.

"I know that the Turks want to participate, we tell them thank you, this is something the Iraqis will handle," Mr Abadi said after meeting Mr Carter in Baghdad on Saturday.

"If help is needed, we will ask for it from Turkey or from other regional countries," he said.

Mr Carter meanwhile indicated his conditional backing for a possible Turkish role in the campaign, pointing out that there was an agreement in principle that could allow for eventual Turkish participation.

"Turkey... has an interest in the ultimate outcome in Mosul. Many other parties do as well. It's a complicated city," he said.

'We will ask for it from Turkey or from other regional countries' ... Carter let's everyone know who is the top-dog in this fight : the USA. The BBC is just trying to be 'helpful'. I wonder if 'other regional countries' includes ... say ... the KSA?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 23 2016 1:28 utc | 44

@40 g, 'His brinkmanship at each turn suggests either the madman he often seemed to be, or numerous currents within Turkey and perhaps its military. But the course for Turkey is clear.'

I think Erdogan has dried up 'the numerous currents' within Turkey, at this point, other than his own torrent. I'm amazed that you think 'Turkey' is on a predetermined course of its own, independent of human agency, apparently.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 23 2016 1:51 utc | 45

Grieved #40
There seem to be a lot of layers here. Erdogan is being warned by Iraq and now also the Syrian General Command that his presence on both countries is occupation and will be fought militarily. There's a huge amount of rhetoric and bluster coming from Turkey lately. How much is real can only be revealed by how much territory it ultimately controls beyond its own current borders.

I agree.
It should be kept in mind that Erdogan´s reconciliation with Russia was a long-term switch in strategy. It was preceded by the resignation of Davutoglu who is said to be the mastermind behind the "Neo-ottoman" expansion. Erdogan´s sole priority now is to prevent a Kurdish state, and for this Assad is the perfect partner as he stands for the integrity of the Syrian state. That is why he is now engaged in "normalising" the relation to Syria.

Erdogan would lose everything he has gained were he to overstep the limits set by Russia. Putin could easily call back Russian tourists from going to Turkey. Or maybe some ATGM for the Kurds?

Posted by: Qoppa | Oct 23 2016 2:04 utc | 46

@LochEarn 29
On an equally sombre note we have some Baltic Germans who didn't go Soviet.
Alfred Rosenberg, primary Nazi theorist, and colleague of Hitler. Born in Tallinn, his father was from Latvia, and he went on to study at Riga Polytechnic - not their fault I imagine? ;) then went to Germany. He was hanged at Nuremberg for war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

Herberts Cukurs, sometime known as the Butcher of Rīga.
All round bundle of fun, ace aviator, explorer, and apparently an absolutely avid Pogrom participant.
He started out as a Bolshie but flipped and went completely HH.
He helped run Arajs Commando operation in an abandoned police precinct house at 19 Valdemāra Iela (street) in Rīga city centre. There they organised transport for rounding up and shooting Jews in Riga (mostly in Rīga forests at Bikernieki and Rumbula, and further west on beach at Skede) as part of Arajs Commando.
His crimes were so bad that after he ran away to South America, Jewish people (in Mossad, including one German-speaking Balt) tracked him down to Uruguay and killed him in 1965, leaving a note pinned on him "from those who will never forget"

Try this memorial and cinema film production project partly run by survivors - there were not many, some were hidden and saved from their fate by non-Jewish Latvians -

Posted by: land_of_the_few | Oct 23 2016 2:06 utc | 47

re at 23
? Flash--per Sibel Edmunds

Turkey has own Nweapons+Ntech since 2000

Link was wrong, apparently.
Try this [working now]

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 23 2016 2:12 utc | 48

I'm sure the Russian message to Turkey is, don't go anywhere near Aleppo city. Doing so will cause us to strike you wherever we feel it is necessary - so forget about the Aleppo city.

As for Northern Syria, there would have to be an East-West "red" line the Russians have drawn on a map for the Turks as to what they can tolerate (which is no doubt different to what their Syrian allies think, but what are they going to do about it?). Whether this line is north or south of Al-Bab for instance, who could possibly know?

As for Iraq & Mosul, I've no doubt the Russians have effectively told the Turks - Mosul is not our problem, sort it out with the Iraqis/Kurds/Americans, we will not get involved.

Posted by: Jules | Oct 23 2016 2:29 utc | 49

psychohistorian | Oct 22, 2016 7:28:31 PM | 27

Agreed; how will it end? Impossible to say, but given U.S. and EU behavior; badly would be my guess...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Oct 23 2016 3:55 utc | 50

Idiotic Putin has organised the ceasefire with Russian themselves in Syria, where at the same time Russians have once again, admitted ceasefires have always failured because the terrorists ignore ceasefires and use it to rearm and resupply.
But this time the Russians did it to themselves without the evil US Empire pressure. How pathetic.

Like I said months ago, this is a piss weak Russia reacting to western propaganda lies. Not only does the propaganda lies work agaist most Western people, it works against Russian miss- leadership too.

So you can't provide humanitarian corridors without military defence of those corridors being attacked? Not really a question because it's obvious ? Except for maybe the Putin cultists

Posted by: tom | Oct 23 2016 4:25 utc | 51

Re NATO attempts to assassinate President Assad - back in 2013 it was UK:

G8: Cameron contemplates a military dictatorship in Syria. According to the Times of London, British Prime Minister David Cameron suggested to his NATO partners the idea of assassinating President Bashar al-Assad and organizing a military coup in Damascus...

In 2012 or 2011 I remember reading on VN (not in English) a short note stating that Obama in phone conversation refused Sarcozy's proposal to bomb the presidential palace in Damascus and murder Al-Assad with his family.

Posted by: ProPeace | Oct 23 2016 4:36 utc | 53

The reality, that if elected prez trump won't have a ready made power monopoly across any of the usual tools of the imperial regime is probably a good thing - cept of course that won't last and the new prez would attempt some serious horse trading on issues where the constitution has clearly defined executive powers, in particular supreme court and C in C, to grab some leverage.
The upshot would be a regime as corrupt and in service to the assholes as anything Hill the shill ruminates on while her cucumber is goin at 100mph.

Still, there are some aspects of a Trump victory which make the thought of it appealing.
No one who studied the man could be happy when Obama got up in 08, but it was a big fuck you to the mental midgets who believe race determines anything other than a handful of cosmetic differences; so there was that along with the knowledge a McCain victory could be even worse than prez Oblamblam. Since McCain's biggest achievement in the military was getting captured while trying to murder Vietnamese children in their sleep, it is certain this was no reluctant warrior who preferred not being at war to shooting the shit outta unwhites - no Eisenhower at home.

Anyway a Trump win however improbable the media claim that to be, they haven't toned down their anti-trump hysteria so maybe he has a chance, a trump win would be a huge poke in the eye for the global media monolith which has been incessant & ubiquitous in it's opposition to trump.

It would also send a signal to DC pols that having aipac on your side doesn't mean jack shit anymore.

Plus the big one a Trump win would leave conservatism destroyed for a long time, not even the self proclaimed alt right could take any comfort from the wheels falling completely off the wagon which has consistently delivered poor whitefellas into the arms of their oppressors - how?
cos Trump winning would be the clearest indication that these formerly loyal retainers no longer plan on touching their forelocks and doin as they are told - in this case delivering Clintonia, the lesser evil.

As for the dems, Trump winning would cause a revolt in the dem ranks - liberal interventionism is no longer viable, now voters want a leader who isn't a slimy imperialist, a marionette of Fortune 500 and a hypocritical zionist who rates the wellbeing of racist israelis ahead of the wellbeing of amerikans.

We shall see - the only way Trump will win is if the average dem voter bolts into one of 3 potential reasons to 'sit this one out'.
Because (i) the media claims of ClintonInc having this in the bag persuade dem voters there is no need to lower oneself to voting for the obviously corrupt Clinton.

(ii) That voting for Clinton after the media have so shamlessly propagandised her is akin to becoming a zombie.

(iii)The portions of Podestra's inbox which have surfaced portray a cabal of power hungry assholes who should never be let near any political position - ever.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 23 2016 5:40 utc | 54

@ Debsisdead comment 53

I agree with all of your comment except this line:
It would also send a signal to DC pols that having aipac on your side doesn't mean jack shit anymore.

I think that AIPAC is also on the side of Trump, but differently. I see Trump, if "elected", as being a tinpot dictator/president that is easily manipulated by the existing power structure.

I look at this (s)election process as being one that delivers a leader that reigns over the ultimate demise of the US as unilateral world power or extermination of us all. While it seems that Clinton II leads the parade to extinction, Trump is not far behind. The people that vote for Trump are not going to want the US to lose the empire hold on the world it has had until recently. They will be rabid about Manifest Destiny and all that racist treatment of all but whites.

Whatever happens, Obama is going to hand over a existing WWIII by January, 2017 to the new would Trump alter that course?

At 68 I am just happy I didn't make any kids to have to explain or make excuses for our species idiocy to....or worry about their future in this world.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 23 2016 6:14 utc | 55

I think this HyperNormalization documentary satisfies the requirements for Open Thread. US selections are a farce. It's going down.

Once again, adios, you all, there are better things to do to prepare for the Apocalypse.

Posted by: chipnik | Oct 23 2016 6:47 utc | 56

jfl@31 When Erdogan said to the Iraqi Prime Minister, "Its not important at all how you shout from Iraq,you should know that we will do what we want to do, know your place". What arrogance, Erdogan will push and push on this because he thinks [probably correctly] that the Iraqi Prime Minister is weak and a US lackey. Time will tell.

Posted by: harrylaw | Oct 23 2016 7:32 utc | 57

@psychohistorian 55 I don't disagree that aipac has probably thrown a few bucks at Trump but as more of their each way bet stuff they always do, rather than full on backing trump. If the zionists believed there was any advantage to a trump win we would see a very different media campaign than the one we have seen.

No I'm not saying that trump is any less of a corporate imperialist than ClintonInc but he isn't as well organised and as awful as Hillary is when she builds a subjective dislike towards someone, or some group of people or some nation I reckon trump is likely to be even less able to park the attitude and consider the big picture.
It's like with his disgusting appeals to amerikans baser racist feelings, as awful as they are in a way I don't fret on it because trump is unlikely to be able to competently act upon these emotions.

Many comparisons have been nade about trump and 1930's european fascism & I don't understand why because the euronazis ran highly evolved political machines which enabled hitler & mussolini to deliver their horror stories, trump lacks that ability to keep a huge people based organisation running.

I have no doubt that aipac want a clinton presidency and a republican congress - they will certainly get the republican congress there's not much can be done to alter that - the last lot of district boundary changes mean that dems will be lucky to pick up 10 seats - and then only if all dems vote which is doubtful, and a huge chunk of rethugs veto trump and then carry that through to the down ticket vote.
I simply don't see that happening dems need 30 seats to get the majority when 10 is close to fantasyland.
Plus of course clinton would prefer a republican win in Congress so she can pretend to be 'compromising' with them when she rams through her free trade scams and wars.
As for her scotus selections, oblamblam's weak assed nominations will seem wonderful in comparison to the corrupt asocial hacks and authoritarian assholes clinton will nominate.
The safest possible outcome is Trump as prez given that rethugs will likely win both houses I just don't see aipac being nearly as sanguine at that result.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 23 2016 7:39 utc | 58

Without justice, aka fairness, there will be chaos. Justice is vital to rehabilitating America.

If DTrump becomes pres., could he quickly act on his own to attract overwhelming popular support and loyalty to defang Establishment opposition? Perhaps using Executive Authority?

What actions can he quickly take that bypass permission and pressures from Congress, cronies and bureaucracy?

To wit:
Eliminate the lie of Too-Big-To-Fail by setting a clear example.
Legal and sensible acts to rehabilitate the justice system?
Acts to remove current injustices that are damaging the justice system?
Eliminate some IRS tax loopholes and tax-avoidance schemes.
Et Cetera!

1. Select 10 bright volunteers, of demonstrated ability and highly experienced by actual track-record.
2. Task them to make a list of such actions, as above, that are obvious, quickly done and easily agreeable to the 99%.
3. Assign them a deadline, pay expenses, get the list.
4. Select and do the actions and evaluate the actual results.
5. Promote and disseminate the successes.
6. Repeat as appropriate.

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 23 2016 8:37 utc | 59

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 23, 2016 4:37:04 AM | 58

What is his team now, who are his backers?


Posted by: somebody | Oct 23 2016 9:52 utc | 60

As Turkey prepares to invade the strategic city of Al-Bab in Syria, the question on all our minds is what will be Russia's response?

Will Russia help Syria throw the Turks out of the country, or simply stand by and watch, while preparing the bags to return home?

Posted by: redrooster | Oct 23 2016 11:45 utc | 61

Erdogan: Aleppo and Mosul belong to Turkey.

Posted by: Syrian boy | Oct 23 2016 12:13 utc | 62

"…annual interest-only 'debt' (sic) tithe-tax to the Private Fed Bank...forever."

Gimme a break.

The Fed is a non-profit, turns over every penny it earns less expenses to Treasury.

Interest paid on bonds is income to the non-government…meaning us. Bondholders are us.

Posted by: paulmeli | Oct 23 2016 12:23 utc | 63

Posted by: Louis Proyect | Oct 23 2016 12:40 utc | 64

@tom - 50. What is so obvious in your opinion? Is it obvious to you that the U.S controls the narrative and that U.N and other international organizations blindly buttress what the west says? So if the narrative is that Russia is killing and starving innocent civilians in East Alepo, all the while, Mosul's siege is (which actually affects more innocent civilians) is being touted as a good thing. What do you expect a reasonable Russia to do? Not counter the false yet loud narrative? You're being naive and have no clue how international relations is played. They paused to counter the narrative of the west, even though they knew it wouldn't work, the pause puts the western noise in its place, it shows their moderates are actually not, since they've been bombing and executing civilians trying to flee. It seems to me you're the one with the narrow point of view.

Posted by: Blk | Oct 23 2016 12:55 utc | 65

Douthat, of all people, wrote something sensible about HRC. Namely, rather than an ideologue, dangerous or otherwise, she is totally a herd creature. When the herd was for Iraq war, she trooped along, she doubted the wisdom of that war when the herd moved away, she was for making it nice with Russia when it was in fashion, and now is stringent when the herd is. But the problem can be manageable: you do not need to change or replace her, you just need to move the herd.

In particular, I did not expect good Trumpesque examples, like Libya. For all his faults, Trump is a herd mover. Douthat now belongs to ca. 50% of the Republicans who lost their abhorrence of Putin and Russia during Trump's campaign. Now it becomes a position of what passes for the "Left", but it is hardly an organic outgrowth of "Left" type of thinking, and is vocally opposed on the Left that has no quotation marks.

Herd instinct is normally attributed to sheep, but elites have it in spade. After all, they are numerous enough to outnumber many smaller nations, and they have complex internal interactions and mental/social hierarchies.

There is a considerable tumult in the elite herd, and media manipulations lack the previous clarion clarity. Douthat is NYT commentator, a representative of "moderate Republicans", socially conservative Catholic and all that. One can cynically guess that he has to find something against HRC and sound intelligent in NYC, and usual Republican tropes would not sound that well. But this is "common wisdom" for you. Imperialists are loosing "The battle of Mainstream Heights".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 23 2016 13:28 utc | 66

We didn't drop the hammer down during the Cold War, when it was The Existence of Capital Itself at stake. So we are unlikely to play Samson now and pull the temple down over -- what? Enhanced arms sales to the Baltic? I discount highly Russia Insider's repeated assertions of war.

Talk of the no-fly zone in Syria is just that, tough talk to impress the rubes (you know who you are). Formal imposition would require a UN resolution not forthcoming, and I doubt if most voters are fully aware of this.

The Donald would be an extinction-level event, the question being would it be just democracy or all of humanity that dies from Trump's exaggerated ego and its overwhelming sense of mindless, careless solipsism. Mrs. Clinton is business as usual. Being the sole and necessary superpower is of course a messy and often brutal business.

Now, if something can be done about the Republican Senate....

And why is there increasingly a common dislike of the Day-Glo Orange Diatribe? Could it be that he's said enough stupid or offensive things that he's managed to alienate a good part of the political spectrum? That's not a bloody conspiracy, it's freaking common sense.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 23 2016 13:38 utc | 67

First to chu teh and all.

Here is the full text of the contract Donald is offering the American people, also known as the (new) Gettysburg address:

Notice what comes first:
"FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;"

Worth a try but it only says "propose".

But there's more, much more for his first 100 days, much more than the following:
"FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;
FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;
SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections."

These quotes are less than about a fifteenth of the text describing the first 100 days.

MSM does not and has never covered Trump policy, all they do is pick a few words or phrases to bend into straw-men to ridicule or attack.

There's even more than the Gettysburg address since it's only about the first 100.

Worth a try. Compared with Hillary there's nothing to lose and everything to win including the survival of the human species.

Far too early to give up on ourselves and each other.

Second a reply to h about something he asked about in an older thread.

h maybe "Project Blue Book" or maybe the "Blue Fire" website? I've never met anyone who knows about Blue Fire so perhaps not.

Project Blue Book is the last known more or less public US government collection, categorization, and study of UFO sightings.

Blue Fire is a site about the likely US government experiments with "proton cannons"/"plasma ball projectors" in and around "Area 51" which was misinterpreted as UFO activity by witnesses. introduction. explanation.

Blue Fire brings Project Blue Book into perspective. If you want to read both then read Blue Fire first.

Posted by: Outsider | Oct 23 2016 13:43 utc | 68

@Outsider | Oct 23, 2016 9:43:01 AM | 67

Trump says AT&T purchase of media giant Time Warner will "destroy democracy"

This soundbite may make me change, vote for Trump, if he breakup Comcast, AT%T and Verizon

"US Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has vowed to block a proposed media mega-deal for AT&T to purchase Time Warner if he wins the presidency, insisting that such deals “destroy democracy.”

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 23 2016 14:10 utc | 69

In case it wasn't obvious I give Blue Fire twenty thumbs up ;)

Also there are plenty of reports that the Russians have (again) started jamming GPS in Russia and particularly in and around Moscow. They've done it before and do it because they anticipate a US first strike.

Search result for the last 24 hours:

The folowing might also be of interest: titled '''Cyber "Attacks" Which Crippled US Internet, Came (mostly) from INSIDE the USA; specifically a US AFB in KS'''.

A wizard in Kansas heh :P

Posted by: Outsider | Oct 23 2016 14:14 utc | 70

Debsisdead @ 53

The reality, that if elected prez trump won't have a ready made power monopoly across any of the usual tools of the imperial regime (...)

I'm not so sure that presumption holds up.

Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 23 2016 14:18 utc | 71

"How Peter Thiel Could Put Trump Over the Top (with inspiration from tecchie Berners) – Part I"

Posted by: metamars | Oct 23 2016 14:28 utc | 72

Jack Smith it certainly would be nice to break apart as many monolithic conglomerate-like pseudo-monopoly companies as possible. Trump seems to be interested in applying either the RICO act or similar to a lot of them, he mentioned something along those lines concerning Jeff Bezos and the Washington Post.

He should know by personal experience how it is misused but his priority is elsewhere in applying first aid to the US and stopping the bleeding which is a tall order on its own. It won't be easy. Later on someone might be able to whisper sensible suggestions into his ear about Snowden, Assange, Manning, Binney and so many others both alive and dead.

Posted by: Outsider | Oct 23 2016 14:52 utc | 73

Killary supporters:

- don’t vote on online polls (huh? - more edjicated, connected…?)

- don’t attend her minuscule venues

- don’t demonstrate (except as paid stooges against Trump? Or ?)

- don’t have many pro-HRC signs up

- don’t campaign or try to convince others

- don’t buy her book.

HRC, co-author Kaine, published a book in Sept. 2016, Stronger Together. Never heard of it? No wonder.

When I looked at the Amazon reviews 3 weeks ago - book sold less than 2k! copies at that time, about 35 reviews, all the reviewers gave a mark of 1 (lowest possible) or 5 (highest), average 1.6.

The ppl who awarded 5 were hilarious, e.g.: “Hillary i did what you said i bought yr book and gave some money so now please don’t kill me” or “Perfect book for propping up my table with a broken leg” etc.

Today (23 Oct.) the score and distribution of marks has not changed and the top post is about missing reviews:

Four days ago (the morning of Sept 19) there were 898 reviews of this book. By evening there were 983 reviews. The reviews were merciless and many quite funny (though mostly accurate). This morning I look and there's 209 reviews. Hmmmmm, what happened to all those other reviews? Apparently Clinton has friends at Amazon.

Amazon reviews on HRC book

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 23 2016 15:43 utc | 74

And Duterte will remain isolated in his Davao compound, while the Philippines own Deep State rules from Manila, building naval bases for US military dockage and resupply within air strike distance of China, not because they ever would, but because 'South China Sea Is Not China's...
Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 22, 2016 1:08:52 PM | 11

Don't bet more than $5-00 on that.
Duterte returned from Beijing with a crash-course in Chinese-style (grown-up) Diplomacy & Wisdom under his belt and immediately 'softened' his stance on relations with the loud-mouthed Yankees.

No doubt the Chinese pointed out to him how easy it would be for nasty, reckless Obama to make a few Philippines Airlines Boeings "mysteriously" disappear, and acquainted him with the principles of The Long Game.
AmeriKKKa is so fucked...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 23 2016 16:00 utc | 75

rufus @66:

Talk of the no-fly zone in Syria is just that, tough talk to impress the rubes ... Being the sole and necessary superpower is of course a messy and often brutal business.
LMAO! Thanks for clearing that up rufus.

"sole and necessary superpower" You say that like its a good thing. Actually, it seems to be a source of many problems. In fact, the BRICS countries came together to check U.S. hubris and mis-use of power (exacerbated by on-the-take politicians and manipulative "allies"). Now we are close to a confrontation with Russia and China.

Formal imposition would require a UN resolution not forthcoming...
The risks of a imposition of a no-fly zone are very real:
>> UN countries have sponsored extremists that have been besieging Syria for years ... with no UN authorization. In fact, Saudi Arabia now chairs the human right council panel that selects "independent" experts.

>> Turkey, Kurds, and Israel have all seized Syrian territory.

>> UNSC 2249 allows countries to enter Syria to combat ISIS - and that is why US, UK, France, etc. fly over Syria already.

>> Relentless propaganda has laid the ground work for public acceptance of the risks of a nfz - all that is required is an "accident"/false flag that transforms it form a nice-to-have to an urgent need.

The Donald would be an extinction-level event...
Thank's for expressing your public position on Trump. We'll just assume that your private position is very different (and a lot more sane).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 23 2016 16:35 utc | 76

@ Hoarsewhisperer

I see Duterte's role as being the canary in the coal mine to other outposts of empire. The message being that either a multipolar or extinct world is coming and they may want to rethink their fealty to the US.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 23 2016 16:39 utc | 77

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 23, 2016 11:43:01 AM | 74

Thanks for the heads up on Crooked Hillary's book.
Couldn't help liking this contribution...

"This may be the first book to receive more reviews than sales"

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 23 2016 16:50 utc | 78

Who posted that website that detailed problems with American voting machines and systems? They linked a really useful website, I think there was a long post about New Mexico? I cant seem to find it. Any help?

Posted by: Cresty | Oct 23 2016 17:09 utc | 79

@Outsider | Oct 23, 2016 10:52:35 AM | 73

No sure if I read you correctly....

What I hope for even more beside AT&T, Comcast and Verizon - He appoints Jill Stein to US Permanent Representative to UN Security Council. Pardon Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and all Whistleblowers. Cease all aids to Israel, closed all US foreign bases and let those bastard wars’ mongers, corrupted war lords to fend for themselves. Forced all US owned companies return homes and rebuilt US infrastructures. America for Americans (I mean any ethnicity or legal migrants). Finally not the least, Independent Czar to investigate Hillary Clinton and anyone involve in 2008 subprime meltdowns.

Bet your sweet live, the NeoCon and NeoLiberal will never stand for it, fight tooth and nail to impeach him or take him down whatever easier.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 23 2016 17:20 utc | 80

@ Piotr Berman | Oct 23, 2016 9:28:26 AM | 66

"Douthat, of all people, wrote something sensible about HRC. Namely, rather than an ideologue, dangerous or otherwise, she is totally a herd creature."

Douthat, like the proverbial blind pig, may have come surprisingly close to rooting up an acorn of insight here.

But I don't think that "herd creature" is quite accurate. For one thing, it's too benign-- or, at least, it can mean merely "sociable".

Also, in isolation it suggests merely blindly "following the majority". Incidentally, my late dear mother had this characteristic; for instance, she tended to wait and see what others ordered in a restaurant, and almost always ended up saying, "I'll have that too."

I do see that this designation is enhanced, or refined, by suggesting that Clinton follows the elite herd. That's more like it, but one might as well use the term "authoritarian-submissive". She's not following the "herd" per se, but the scent of the elite few who lead, direct, and own the herd.

Put another way: when I read your comment, I asked myself for the thousandth time why the idiomatic expression "time-server" has all but disappeared from public discourse.

time-serv·er (tīm'sûr'vər) pronunciation
One who conforms to the prevailing ways and opinions of one's time or condition for personal advantage; an opportunist.

I have a standard, if not particularly original, joke that goes along with this: if I were publishing a dictionary, the Clintons' pictures would appear beside the definition of "time-server".

But I couldn't just limit it to that odious pair. My Western Hegemony dictionary would have to have a separate volume for "time-server", with a Rogue's Gallery so extensive it would have to be divided into chapters-- like a high school yearbook from Hell.

Posted by: Ort | Oct 23 2016 17:28 utc | 81

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 23, 2016 12:39:54 PM | 77

Yep. We're on the same page with this one.
China was the first country to endorse Duterte's anti-drugs campaign and immediately followed up with an invitation for a romantic stroll on Beijing's Red Carpet (a courtesy NOT extended to the most recent hi-profile Yankee visitor).

If one contrast's China's enthusiastic reaction to the Duterte Agenda with Obama's indignant reaction, it begs the question "Why did Obama over-react so stridently to an (apparently) tin-pot Leader of a tin-pot country?

Possible answer...
When His 'anti-drugs' campaign has been running for 6 months, Duterte will be able to report on its progress-to-date. And, regardless of its success or otherwise, He will also have the experienced core of a Patriotic, anti-Imperialist Death Squad - if needed. And he probably will need it just to make sure the Deep State doesn't try to "Dilma" him, as a commentator at SST recently suggested as a possible US option.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 23 2016 17:30 utc | 82

outsider at 68 re presidential rapid effects

Since two/multiple passports are a contradiction in terms of citizenship loyalties/obligations, might they be outlawed? And the benefits of that correction be far-reaching? Particularly as it concerns the exorbitant privilege* of bypassing citizen responsibilities?

* exorbitant privilege--was term first used to describe USA exclusive rights to Reserve Currency status of USDollar.[Perhaps by Jacques Rueff in clarifying difference between Gold Standard versus the Gold Exchange Standard created by 1944 Bretton Woods Agreement.

Posted by: chu teh | Oct 23 2016 19:31 utc | 83


Hillary supporters:

- don’t vote on online polls (huh? - more edjicated, connected…?)

- don’t attend her minuscule venues....

This is called "silent majority".

Jack Smith: What I hope for even more beside AT&T, Comcast and Verizon - He appoints Jill Stein to US Permanent Representative to UN Security Council. Pardon Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and all Whistleblowers. Cease all aids to Israel, closed all US foreign bases and let those bastard wars’ mongers, corrupted war lords to fend for themselves. Forced all US owned companies return homes and rebuilt US infrastructures. America for Americans (I mean any ethnicity or legal migrants). Finally not the least, Independent Czar to investigate Hillary Clinton and anyone involve in 2008 subprime meltdowns.

Bet your sweet live, the NeoCon and NeoLiberal will never stand for it, fight tooth and nail to impeach him or take him down whatever easier.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 23, 2016 1:20:40 PM | 80

Jack, you are making a relatively good case for "Jack for President". By the way, Assange is prosecuted by Swedes, but one could promise not to make any extradition requests to the Baltic kingdom. A stint in a Scandinavian prison is typically short and it should be more comfortable than the cramped confines of Ecuadorian embassy (I was totally impressed by a bucolic view on a Norwegian minimum security prison in the middle of a fjord: a cute island surrounded by ice-cold water and cliffs with a bunch of cottages). Forcing "American companies" to "return home" is quite tricky, I would change the tax formula to consider income within USA with some provision against phony pricing of intra-company trades etc. Then it would simply do not matter where the company claims to be. If they like it there in Kiribati, free people should be allowed to go. But do you believe that Trump will go against his son-in-law and his family? Hardly any signal so far. And concerning "vigorous investigations", I watched what happened in a number of countries, and there are two basic choices: (a) give up in the face of powerful lawyers, sympathetic judges etc., elite solidarity if you will or (b) organize kangaroo courts which can be effective, but less than convincing. Each option has huge demerits. A more realistic option is to have "commission of truth" with powers of issuing subpoena and immunity deals to document systemic irregularity that could be avoided in the future.

Concerning possibility of impeaching Trump, it may be significant. As it was already done before, find a special prosecutor with wolverine (bulldog?) inclinations and start from real estate deals in which some investors lost money -- as it was done before. Ask Melanie, under oath, if she can bake any cookies, and let Senate Committee taste them.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 23 2016 20:38 utc | 84

@74 Noirette, 'Apparently Clinton has friends at Amazon'

None of Hillary's 'friends' have legs long enough for their feet to reach the ground.

@84 PB

That's the second time I've noticed you mis-spelling the name ... so precious. Calls attention to the relative strengths of signal to noise, though ... and to your own weak second, signalwise, in this fortuitous, two-person matchup. That's only my humble opinion, of course.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 23 2016 21:29 utc | 85

No, that is my one and only opinion about The Day-Glo Duckhead.

In March 2016 Chomsky was already speaking of the Republicans as dangerous to humanity, though its climate denialism. By May he was speaking of Trump as a potential "death knell" for the planet.

At this point it is not the potential from his increasingly unlikely election, but the revenge of his disaffected Red Hat followers after. What with their fondness of "Second Amendment remedies" against a "criminal" government.

You can easily spin out a scenario -- some of his yahoo Red Hatters from the Konservative Klan Kountry in the central part of the state come into "corrupt" Philadelphia to "monitor" the polls. And the bullies get some push-back, and suddenly the "rioting" by Democratic "mobs" and suddenly the election is "stolen"....

For The Donald's "March on Washington" I would not think he would have something like 1963 version in mind. More likely, something resembling the "March on Rome," by Il Duce in 1922.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 23 2016 21:37 utc | 86

I have here the UN press release, as well as statements by assorted ambassadors. It seems a pretty routine, indeed almost generic denunciation of bad people doing bad things, and gosh darn it, somethin' should be done. So you'll need chapter and verse to support that assertion.

Since the Russian Federation signed on, I cannot see how this resolution could construed to authorize the abrogation of Syrian sovereignty, without the strong and effective objection of Russia and likely China as well.

So if I may, let me again put my unanswered question -- what are the concrete aims of this "war" and how are they to be obtained?

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 23 2016 21:52 utc | 87


Who should we fear more, Trump - who talks about restoring law and order, ending corruption, valuing constitution rights, and avoiding war with Russia - or Hillary, who lies like a rug, runs play-to-pay scams, and benefits from what one could only call a vast 'Third-Way' conspiracy that thrives on hippy-punching, intimidation (scare tactics, IRS scandal, etc.), propaganda/misdirection, and employs Obamabots/Hillbots like rufus.

Here's Trump describing what this election means (again)

Furthermore, Congress will be a check on Trump but NOT so much on Hillary & Co. And if Trump wins, we will find that the REAL left will be re-energized.

Never Hillary. Its time to stop the corruption. Who do you think is getting played when politicians run "pay to play" scams? Wake up!

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Many have questioned the polls that show Hillary in the lead. And for good reason. A clear lead for Hillary is meant to intimidate the media so that they ask softball questions of those associated with the presumed President and/or refrain from asking challenging followups.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 23 2016 22:14 utc | 88

Sam T @ 14, Also the true explanation concerning MH17 was left out: The poultry farm where it crashed
had industrial refrigerators for storing the already-dead bodies, a private railroad spur for transporting plane parts,
a boxcar & buildings to store them, and even a truck with crane for placing them. This was a very large operation.
Its purpose was sanctions to block continued Russian industrial development, especially its very lucrative
relationship with Germany. Russia did not immediately sign on to this hoax.

The Russian generals gave their press conference concerning the cause of the crash, thereby signing Russia on to the
hoax. The following morning sanctions were announced. The Russians' mouths were stopped. They could no longer
say it was a hoax. Putin was shocked. Whatever the agreement had been, the US betrayed it by issuing sanctions.

For the only time, Putin lost his poker face. Perhaps it takes a woman to have seen it. Only the surface muscles
stayed the same. The underlying musculature was that of a great grief kept constantly before the eyes.
I don't think it can be faked. It looked like constantly seeing the dead face of the beloved-- or the death of
a long-cherished dream.

When he travelled almost at once to see Angela Merkel, she commented on his "absence." The media chose to interpret
this as "He was not all there"-- an insulting reflection on his sanity.

Whatever the extent or purpose of the collusion, MH17 cannot have been a real event. It is impossible for engines
weighing tons-- and all the other parts-- to fall from the sky, leaving no impact craters in the soft farmland.

When planes crash, they break even asphalt. what the impact craters of real plane crashes look like.

There was collusion, too, in the Sinai fake crash of the Russian passenger liner. US & UK imm'y announced that their
intelligence services had discovered that it was the terrorists who had downed the plance. This hoax was obviously
being used to motivate the Russian people to accept further Russian involvement in Syria. Why wd US & UK want this?
What could be the common purpose among the three, except to drag the war out for further destruction of Syria,
destabilization of Europe via immigration-- and of course as distraction.

Absent the Syrian war we might see and resist their progress in destroying the last of the civilization that we know.

Links to the Sinai crash photos, where every part sits lightly upon the sand which so readily takes tire tracks: close ups an engine.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 23 2016 22:17 utc | 89

Further to @88 (important):

New Podesta Email Exposes Dem Playbook For Rigging Polls Through "Oversamples"

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And don't miss:

Leaked Soros Memo Exposes Obama's Secret TPP Negotiations; Hillary "Flip-Flopping"

The TTIP/TPP is not about jobs but about conquest and global control. The American worker and the American economy is a distant second. Hillary claims to be against it NOW but will likely not put up much of a fight against it - her private position is almost certainly that she supports it.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 23 2016 22:32 utc | 90

Trump's latest proposals are worthless, because the oligarchs can and will bypass them easily.

For example, term limits on people like Pelosi or Cruz just means TPTB will promote a round-robin selection of crooked candidates "known to them" but "unknown to us". Moreover, thanks to a constant barrage of "non-partisan" neoliberal propaganda, a good percentage of voters won't even entertain "radical" change.

Power resides in the oligarchs, because they can afford to spend money on self-serving propaganda and campaigns for compliant politicians. In the absence of confiscatory taxation like we had from the 1930's to 1980, wealth and power accumulate in a small number of hands. That concentration of wealth guarantees further corruption of the political process, until we have government like today that is so thoroughly corrupted that it refuses to prosecute blatant crimes.

With our present trajectory, I presume we'll endure another 2-3 terms of successively worse conditions before people start ignoring neoliberal teams "R" and "D". Black swans will likely emerge before then.

Posted by: dumbass | Oct 24 2016 0:10 utc | 91

@93. Sorry about that. I meant to add a comment. It seems WP may be having second thoughts about Hillary's Syria intervention policy.

Trump should make it into a big deal.

Posted by: dh | Oct 24 2016 0:45 utc | 93

@PavewayIV, wherever you are ...

I've got around to reading the book at the end of link you posted. I'm sure there's a lot to be learned from it, it's just that I think that - at least in the case of the USA and Hitler's Germany, if not in the case of Wilhelm II's - the problem cannot be described in terms of individual psychosis ...

Political Ponerology

The Germans inflicted and suffered enormous damage and pain during the first World War; they thus felt no substantial guilt and even thought that they were the ones who had been wronged. This is not surprising as they were behaving in accordance with their customary habit, without being aware of its pathological causes. The need for this pathological state to be concealed in heroic garb after a war in order to avoid bitter disintegration became all too common.

... it's those 'customary habits' - the 'exceptional' ones - in the case of the USA, wherein we feel no substantial guilt for the genocide of the indigenous population of North America, for our role in the kidnapping and enslavement of 15 million Africans, for the overthrow of nearly all Central and South American governments at one time or another, for the slaughter of 5 million Koreans, a million Indonesians, 2 or 3 million Vietnamese, the slaughter in Cambodia and Lao, a million Iraqis, the overthrow of the Libyan and Ukrainian governments, the deaths of 500 thousand Syrians ... these are pathologies of our entire society, and cannot be attributed to a few psychopathic bad apples.

But how to address 'psychopathology' in individuals or societies? I have not much faith in psychology ... psychologists remind me of Bertrand Russell's postmen, who deliver their own mail - self-referential groups.

I think that government is the skeleton of society and that it's structure is the only way to address a society's pathologies - at least their symptomatic manifestations, but perhaps the diseases themselves, by instilling 'customary habit' over generations.

So, thanks for the link. There's bound to be insight to be gained from such a purposeful undertaking, even if it's not along the dimension the author originally intended.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 24 2016 2:03 utc | 94

dh @93, 94:

It seems WP may be having second thoughts about Hillary's Syria intervention policy.
More likely it is an attempt to play down her militarism now that there is talk of conflict with Russia. They don't want to frighten people so close to the election.

Hillbot rufus was attempting to do the same @67 (see my reply @76).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 24 2016 2:26 utc | 95

@96 Trump should go all in on it. Hillary = WW3. It has a ring to it.

Posted by: dh | Oct 24 2016 2:29 utc | 96

And in more local USA news of further suppression

Its all about the God of Mammon instead of doing what is right for ongoing "civilization". There is not another planet to bequeath to the children of the future but those that own private finance which instantiates the God of Mammon incentives, don't seem to care about anything but money and power/control.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 24 2016 2:42 utc | 97

And for more local USA suppression there is this:

We have only one planet to bequeath to the children but those that own private finance and everything else value money/power/control more than ongoing "civilization".

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 24 2016 2:46 utc | 98

Sorry for the double post....I thought I maybe hit refresh instead of post because my comment didn't come up after the refresh....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 24 2016 2:47 utc | 99

china watch out, trouble on the border coming your way...

Posted by: denk | Oct 24 2016 4:36 utc | 100

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